Fact. I don't know if that's called the rondal dagger but I do know the taper of that point is meant straight up to penetrate the ribs and go into the organs I also know that a lot of those old school medieval daggers didn't have an edge they just came to a very sharp point for that reason. The way that you sink blades in dude especially with your no spin throw absolutely lethal 110%.
@@TheRealRomansThirteenNot really. It's speed multiplied by weight which equals force. If you stab someone, you ideally have a large part of your body weight behind the stab. However, if you throw the knife, you might have the same speed, but there is quite a lot of weight missing, since now its only the weight of the knife in the equation and not your bodyweight. No knife that you throw will penetrate through a rib. It might slide through between the ribs, but it wont penetrate through bone itself. Same goes for the skull. The temple and the eye socket, those are the points that a throwing knife could punch through. All the other parts of the skull, no chance. You need a force of 2000pa per square millimeter to penetrate the skull. I ran the calculations, even if the point was only one tenth of a square millimeter thick, and we assume, that the blade does not widen (which is impossible, because then it would be a needle), a 200g throwing knife thrown at 100km/h (which is VERY fast, since you dont throw a throwing knife like you would a baseball) would still produce way to low amount of force to penetrate or crack the skull. It would leave quite a mark on the bone, but it wouldnt penetrate through. We can make the blade heavier, but that wont really make a difference, because then you wont throw as fast, so it equals out. So no, its nowhere near as lethal as video games or movies suggest. Its quite hard to land a hit in a way, that instantly kills someone. Serious injurys which can lead to death if not treated in a hospital yes, totally. But it will almost never be an instant kill.
@@AdamCeladin I am sorry, but then I have to contradict you and say you have no clue about physics. How could a throw EVER be more powerful, than a stab where the whole bodyweight is put behind it?! Just try grabbing the knife reverse grip and stab the ballistic gel with full force from above. When you stab someone, you can also hold the person or even pull him towards the knife, which again will double the force. I understand, that you love knife throwing, and I usually like your statements, but this I have to call out as crap.
@@lk-ip1xs That just show you are not a knife thrower and dont know anything about real power behind it - watch this and tell me sorry after ,) th-cam.com/video/wsX7vrJJIpU/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=QuintBUILDs
I always felt that knife throwing in combat was something you do moments before you feel you're gone anyway. Remember that scene from Saving Private Ryan when they keep chucking pistols and helmets at each other? Something like that.
If we're talking modern day, sure, it's pretty niche. Historically, it's more like a personal defense type of thing in situations where no one is likely to have armor (much like concealed carry pistols today). For instance, if you only have a dagger and some throwing knives against a sword, or only a sword and some throwing knives/bo-shuriken against a spear, your odds drastically go up, especially in group combat
While I see the stopping power of any thrown knife to be marginal, I think almost everyone will still flinch considerably when someone throws a knife at you. Because you know it will hurt and could cause a very serious injury, and when it comes flying at your face, you will flinch before you can even think about it. And for that purpose you don't need any kind of actual stopping power. Even if it takes your opponent just a second to get his weapon back into a ready position and to focus his eyes on you again, that can make a big difference. I can totally believe that some people threw knives in combat that way, and trained to do it effectively. Just not for ranged stealth kills. Even if you hit, and you cause an injury, and that injury is actually fatal, there's probably still a 90% chance the guy will be able to do a lot of screaming.
@@Erideah swords were for personal defense. Spears were for war. Throwing knives appear most in societies without to much armor, like name an African country. Ninjas used them as a distraction to use more leathal weapons or run away. What daggers were known for in many societies was assassination or theft. So much so that people would go through the effort of making specialized short swords. Knives were general tools for many applications that had nothing to do with combat. Throwing weapons is as a distraction, and designated opener, or for hunting. Maybe in desperation.
@@danielcox7629 Very much depends on what place and time in history we're talking about. Spears are cheaper than swords, and polearms in general were often carried by guards or anyone who wanted to outmatch a sword--so bandits and the like as well as peasants As we know about samurai for instance, if you are a warrior by vocation, you might have the luxury of throwing knives and spikes (metals weren't cheap after all), and a good amount of them put years into shuriken jutsu. You can use it for distraction or an opener, yes, but it also helps very much to close a reach disadvantage. Also, a spearman that might give you and your sword pals trouble by just backing up on light feet is a lot less trouble if one of you throws a tanto-shuriken or bo-shuriken in his neck or eye area, or even just starts him bleeding from anywhere and slowing down There's a wide variety of uses, but they were rare, due to cost and the intense amount of training required to make them useful
I feel the same. I´d also rather throw anything else than my knife. I do have the feeling I´d be more succesful with the knife still in my hand, than if I throw it away. But it is all theoretical, I will never end up fighting with knives, throwing them or not.
Speaking of injuries due to rebound, I remember when I was first learning, I had a knife rebound and hit me square in the chest, right below the sternum. The only thing that saved me was the fact that I was wearing a neck knife at the time. The rebounding knife hit the sheath dead-on, then shooting off to the side. Left a big ole gash on the sheath and a bruise on my chest. It all happened in a flash, didn't even notice the rebound before it hit me. Rebounds are no joke.
Great job, Adam! You considered all posibilities here. Basically, to be practical and lethal, the two key points are: 1) No spin throw. 2) Use and knife that is not too light nor have a too wide blade, to achive the best penetration.
well the wider one has more chance of cutting arteries. also note that balistics gel is much thicker then tissue. there were also no bones in the way. wht he needs is one of thoes torsos/heads from balistic dummy labs. but they are expencive so people would need to donate. also i thought that the reflexive halfspin could be used at any distance. theres also the Skanf method of using your body like a whip to generate insane force when throwing.
I've read a fair bit of literature from studies on the subject that penetration wounds of more than about 1.5" depth tend to induce shock in the victim, even when the wound itself isn't fatal or striking any vital area.
Not to mention in a time before antibiotics, even a relatively shallow wound could lead to infection. Not quite the "henchmen have 1 hp" rule we see in movies an video games.
And also you have to keep in mind. that in a real knife fight. see prison videos for reference. the goal is stab, stab, stab. multiple times as fast as possible. it's documented that a single pistol round, has less shock effect I. E. stopping power than a shotgun round.
@@CaptainTechnicalFrom "a fair bit of literature" obviously. You know the exact amount that it's so commonly written down that it surely must be true. But also not written down enough that anyone seems to know, talk, or cite it at all. And also that just right amount where when asked it about its source or validity you don't have to cite anything "because surely you should be able to find this information because it's so common and proven emperically true". You know... All the literature about the exact, to the decimal point, depth of penetrative wound which will always cause an average adult to go into shock. THOSE literature.
I was just talking about this in old cowboy movies, I just find it humorous they show about half an inch of knife steel in someone's shoulder and he dies instantly, then they find a cowboy laying in the road who has been shot in the heart with a 45 and they lay a folded up bandana on it and say hang on I'll go get help😂
I love westerns and laugh at the shoulder wounds that don’t knock em down- ever. They are great fun though. (Insomnia and now going to go watch the B&W era westerns, thanks!)
I can't believe this is even a question. If you poke a hole in the right place on a human body, with a knife, bullet, arrow, ice pick, or any other device, the human body is going to cease to function. It does not have to create a temporary cavity in ballistic gelatin. It just has to make a hole in the right place.
Well if you actually study knife attacks you'll find out not necessarily true. A friend of mine was attacked and stabbed around 10 times through the back and body punctured a lung collapsed it cut an artery did some other massive internal damage. He is still alive and working just fine today. He was the one who called 911 and was found passed out in a pool of blood. Most killings with a blade take dozens and dozens of stabs to finally kill the victim. Yes a good cut to the right arteries can bleed u out quickly. That is rare and very hard to actually do. Statistics says it all. Most actual murders with a blade take so many stabs it doesn't even make sense. Yet report after report is that way. So many times I heard said why did you stab him so many times. Only to hear he wouldn't die or he kept fighting. Since especially a sharp knife the body had an amazing ability to seal up the wound to a small degree internally and keep someone from dying right away. That's knowledge gained from paramedics nurses police and Doctors. I started asking those questions as a teenager and 40 plus years it's always been the same.i have never heard of a less then dozen stabs wounds that killed someone. I'm not saying it's not possible just not likely and not what I have ever heard of read or seen before. My father was an emt and my mother a paramedic then an ER nurse in a big town. So yeah I got to hear a lot of stories of this sort of thing. Just information take it as that and double check what I said. Hope it helps enlighten someone out there.
@@philsturgill3435 nope reports from paramedics emts ER nurses and doctors along with what I have read in the papers over the years and what I heard from some police who talked about different stabbings and shootings the responded to. Look you can be a total Moron think your right and discount everything I said as nonsense. Or maybe just maybe let a miracle happen use that little bit of brain for some real research look up stabbings yourself and see first hand what they entail I your own big cities. When you do that then decide if what I said makes sense or not. Until then you don't have the knowledge and definitely you don't have the experience. So stop trying to be a keyboard bully your opinion of me or what I say is nothing more then a fart out your blow hole hot air in the wind. Until you do the work you got no background knowledge to pull from
I remember watching a documentary back in the day on ninja's and throwing spikes, shuriken, and throwing knives and it always stuck with me that you're not going to 1 shot kill with a throw unless you can bury a knife through the skull, so regardless of the implement it's mostly meant as a distraction to get you to "flinch" so the ninja can retreat or press his attack with an advantage, because even a skilled fighter having something fly at their face or chest is going to have to work to react especially if they don't expect it and as you demonstrated, even a hit from the blunt end can deal damage of some kind.
I am always amazed that the blades appear to sink deeply through bone (like ribs) in a vertical orientation, instead of horizontal (which would slip between the ribs better) Heck, if they hit them in the back, it is always THROUGH the shoulder blade.
Way back in 1976 or so my first fencing coach mentioned that he had been a champion knife-thrower in his youth. Excited, I asked him what kind of knife I should get for defense. He looked at me sadly and said "get the heaviest knife possible so that when it doesn't stick it will at least hurt him a little".
Adam, this is a super interesting subject to me, and one that I have put a ton of research in. I've been throwing knives for over thirty years and this channel (@AdamCeladin) is one of the very best!! Much respect to you and your research. Your stuff is always top-notch. :) So first off, I respectfully submit a differing opinion to your testing medium and the outcome of this particular test based on my experience. I have first-hand experience hunting with throwing knives on live targets in the jungles of Central America and the woods of North Idaho. I have also used ballistic gel, cold hanging slabs of meat and wooden targets. Each of these mediums has a VERY different reaction to blades. A thrown knife will literally pierce straight through living bone and tissue of a wild jungle pig and come out the other side like an arrow from a bow. It absolutely DESTROYS organs and causes catastrophic system failure in living organic creatures. Ballistic gel is not a good medium for blades. It is too "gooey" and sticky to replicate living tissue and bone. Bodies are containers, hide stretched over a tent frame and filled with blood bearing organs and viscera. Once a point punctures, it is like a balloon inside. Very little resistance. Humans are not solid creatures, but hollow. Wood is essentially armor for knives, and cold hanging meat is a better medium although tougher due to the constriction of the muscle fiber. I did send a 9-ounce knife through two hanging beef sides in a butcher shop with a half-spin. Think of the knife as an arrow without a shaft, or the tip of a thrown spear. It is a sharpened steel point that penetrates into the organs. Arrow and spear wounds are rarely an "instant" kill because of the time required for bleed-out. It's the same with a thrown knife. A head-shot is typically so catastrophic that the animal will drop instantly from shock, although they are hard to pull off. Lung and heart hits bleed out like arrow wounds with between 10-30 seconds until lack of consciousness. It is worth noting that a very sharp knife will create large "Nike Swoosh" type wounds in living tissue because of the rotation of the weapon, which was unexpected to me. Apparently this has to do with the Conservation of angular momentum and the fact that the blade is still trying to rotate after impact. It seems like the edge was the path of least resistance. Also worth noting: Big, heavy knives are very effective at stopping animals whereas lighter blades only create superficial wounds. It does make quite a difference. As always, I appreciate your channel and your videos! Keep rocking! Lucas
That’s way sick dude. Thanks for the stories and perspective. I didn’t even know people hunted with throwing knives! Question: how do you get the distance right when throwing?
I love that you've become the voice of knife-throwing! I've followed you for quite some time and you're so down-to-earth and have great humility. Also, you've got such a practical, realistic view of the sport. It would be easy to try to over-romaticize it but throwing weapons is already sexy enough...no need to make it into something that it's not. Sadly, my throwing days are pretty much over since I had shoulder surgery a few years ago. So I live vicariously through you and your channel. Keep up the amazing work!
This is an excellent illustration of why throwing knives have traditionally been used as distractions more than weapons. Also the spin / distance is why the hurlbat was created in the medieval era. Points in EVERY orientation so it is GOING to stick. Kill? Unlikely. Hurt like hell and distract them while you close in with a sword? Yup.
I can't remember where I read it, but I vaguely remember a book with some young kid throwing his knife into a stump, and the old, grizzled veteran asks why. He says he can kill a bird in flight, and the veteran asks something like "Can you kill two? No? Then keep your knife close and practise the bow". We make different weapons to do different things for a reason. Also, if you miss with something like the hurlbat, the enemy still has to run across a field strewn with sharp and pointy bits of metal.
@@MrVeps1 Caltrops...one of my favorite sneaky implements. But very true. There is no "good at everything." Different tools for different jobs. Also no need for artificially increasing difficulty when there is a more reliable and simple alternative. (why I take a bo staff or club over nunchuks for example)
Knife throwing history: Grey Otter In World War II, he took out a German sentry with a downhill bayonet throw of 87 feet. He drew bead on a spot about three feet over the sentry's head and let fly, the bayonet rotating end-over-end and taking the German at the base of the skull.
@@AdamCeladin agreed if it happened as the story said it was pure luck or the target was closer than 87 feet speed, drop, weight of the knife etc all have to be factored in and a spiral toss is not as fast as a straight throw.
But as you mentioned in the video..even if the handle hits..it will brake bone etc.. I to dont believe that he stuck it tip first..but its possible to kill from that range with both sides of the knife. And as always...Supernice content !!@@AdamCeladin
Background and the fact that bayonets are balanced for chopping and weighed like a much longer knife might make a difference. It's worth a debunking video.
I believe this story is in Harry McEvoy's book on knife throwing. If I remember correctly, Grey Otter had been a pro knife thrower before the war, and everyone including him was surprised he actually managed to make such a lucky shot. It does seem possible, just extremely difficult.
I always found it telling that I can get a knife to stick far deeper into wood with a throw then a manual stab, and I just figured any hit on a vital organ would spell massive injury or death fairly easily
I noticed this as a kid playing with a piece of rebar. Both hand jumping down on wood i could poke a good hole throwing the rebar it would stab in deep enough to stand on its own.
Don’t ever call yourself a good knife thrower!! You are not a good knife thrower! You are THE knife thrower! I’ve been watching your videos for a long time. You’re awesome! You’re a legit bad ass…
In my first year of knife throwing I bought a hunting knife with a wooden handle and a very sharp blade. I threw it a few times without much success. The handle being made of wood did not give it a good weight to volume ratio. So I started to throw it harder and harder... Then the knife landed on the board on the handle, which made it bounce back to my right arm... Now I've got 6 stitches. Good thing about it is that for 3 months I had to use my left hand to throw so now I can pretty much throw from both hands. Sharp tips, and if there's any blade, make sure it's dull.
My friends & I used to throw knives at a target. We got absolutely deadly as long as our stance, footing, distance, target, etc. didn't change. ;) It was fun!
Great way to meditate. I practiced for a while many years ago and found it relaxing. Fun to do. It's been years though. I think I will pick it up again.
Very good video👌I was in the army in special forces and instructor on hand to hand combat was showing as how litle penetration had a clunky bayonete when trowing... Instead they teach us how to trow entrenching showel and military axe... That two inflicted some serious damage😬
I am 53 years old. I have thrown knives my whole life. I stared throwing knives when I was around 6 years old. My dad knew a circus knife thrower that got me started. And you are right about the spin. I have buried the point to the point that the tip snapped off when I pulled it out. So it's not about how hard you throw it's more about skill.
There was one time I was going through some old stuff on the porch. There was an old cheap ice pick dagger in the box. I threw it at a log near the porch. It buried deep enough that it took splitting the log with an axe to get it out. It was worthless after that because it warped it. So in that case the very thin light blade would have been lethal.
The study of counter Ambush has brought me to so many different instructors. Hopefully everyone in this community has some exposure to it too. To Matie, Ed Calderon, Libra knife fighting, and Clint Emerson. Among them studies though there's a lot of artery and organ targets. Counter ambush is the study of striking shock zones to incapacitate an attacker, but they can also be lethal. The arteries that we know especially in the neck area with your precision it's absolutely a go and is 110% lethal. The Carotid artery jugular artery and trachea. The bronchial artery, also from above if you were throwing down you have the subclavian. If you hit low there's an artery in the navel there's also the femoral arteries. For Organ placement the lungs the heart the kidneys and the liver and spleen. Very low perhaps the bad guy is running to cover to shoot at you. The Tibia artery. If you could sink the I shot and penetrate the orbit old school zgb style also deadly. The temple and occipital lobe for head hunting too, to get into the brain organ that you have to get through the skull. It also has to be noted the most poison arrows darts and throwing weapons were poison tipped. Some stuff out there is terrible, just a nick or a scratch, and you're out of it. The Catholic Rosery is a hint* to that. I hope they cast you for John Wick 5. Someone from Hollywood should have noticed by now.
I think you demonstrated perfectly what a dagger was designed to in the first place, through out history it was kinda the finish blow on the battle field or a street fight, easy to hide and in the same time used in combination with another sword.
My best friend that lives in the woods taught me how to though a knife straight without spin, but he taught me his underhand technique. I got pretty decent at it, but it has been a while since I’ve tried.
We used to play horse with throwing knives. We learned distance was the number 1 factor for us to stick it well. Each knife had a different distance. Once you found that sweet spot, though, it was on.
You can make up for lack of mass with greater speed, but the techniques to throw faster preclude controlling the spin. So then you're into needing to throw things where the spin doesn't matter.
I almost got cut multiple times attempting knife throwing. Today I know what mistakes to avoid... specially what kind of blades. how much power and what distances to start...and since I haven't done in ages I will have to start from scratch. Great video!! THANK YOU!!
Another great video. Very genuine, very informative and I appreciate that you remind people of the potential dangers, even while practicing. Well done. Thank you.
One of my ex-girlfriends really wanted sai knives, like Raphael's in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I forged them from rebar. When thrown from a distance of 5-7 meters into a tree, they stuck in such a way that they could only be removed with a tire iron
You know, one or two inches of penetration can be severe, if, for instance, it hits you in the neck, thigh, arms or legs, solar plexus, etc. at the same time, I think based on what I've seen in this video, I'd say that it really doesn't have enough momentum to pierce bone, and the relative chances that a knife goes through a ribcage doesn't seem great, to me. Ribcage being roughly center mass, or where you would basically want to aim. There's not many organs you could do major damage to underneath the ribcage, either, not in the 2 inches of penetration this has. Perhaps a knife can sort of find its way in after deflecting off a rib, and maybe the stiffer structure of the body overall might lead to a deeper penetration, but it seems apparent that the ballistic gel is much too good at absorbing the energy from the knife, especially as it goes in an inch or two. Other people have brought up coverings, like denim, jackets, what have you, but I'd like to say that I think you should do a test with a larger piece of gelatin, and maybe a more secured piece of gel, something with a rod driven through it, like a bone might be, in order to keep it locked down, or a clamp, because I don't know if that would help or not. I would also think that maybe sharper, or more concave grinds, and thinner blade profiles might help here, with blade weight and flexibilitythen being the issue, which would make me think that a thin blade with a heavy and thick center mass would be the most well-suited to hitting someone with a throw, maybe even with barbs, or single sided serrations, so it works in over time, and can't be taken out. Fullers might also be useful, as they might concentrate the force more thoroughly on just the edge of the blade, rather than the whole of the blade. I dunno, requires further testing, but I don't think that it's looking like a particularly lethal or even generally good form of attack, considering the incredible amount of damage you could do with a knife in your hand, and the relatively lower distances required to be accurate, and have low travel times. Overall, it would maybe seem to be a technique of last resort, something you might throw out if you think someone might draw a gun and shoot you, or something you might do if you're not confident in your knife-fighting ability, which, to be fair, is pretty well-justified, based on how knife fights tend to go. Even if you're the only guy with a knife, it might go sideways. Or maybe something you might do if you just have a knife in hand, and then intend on drawing a different weapon that might be a better option for you, like a baton, or a heavy flashlight, or running away. High speed cameras might also be useful for analysis of how we could design a knife that does this more effectively, and I'd also wanna see spin throwing, just for comaprison, even if I agree it's really not a practical thing to do for the vast majority of people.
Those daggers reminded me how much I wanted a set of the ones from V for Vendetta... unfortunately I can't find them from a seller I'd trust to give me something usable...😢 Also: ballistic gel is even harder to cut/ penetrate than flesh.
If you were using a throwing knife as a weapon, you want it to fall out of the wound. If the knife sticks, it'll restrict bleeding which is why you keep the object in with puncture wounds. That thick kunai is still very dangerous despite it not being able to penetrate as deep. I wonder how it would do with a grazing blow or with spin.
Super interesting, Adam ! I'm practicing knife throwing for fun and to develop accuracy, but there's very little chsnce I'll ever throw my knife as I often have things to throw for distraction (rocks, stick, stuff on a desk 🫡) Still, it is fun. Thus, I continue training, and thus, I am more precise 😁
I believe that one throw one kill in games is a balancing choice. You need to sacrifice a piece of ammo that you do not carry a lot of or worse you need to throw away a melee weapon to make the attack. To make it "worth it" in the game mechanics, it needs to at least be a sure thing. In a shooter usually the throwing knife will replace a grenade, so you need it to give you a similar effect to a grenade for it to be worth having it, as an example.
From a physics standpoint.. a No Spin throw focuses the kinetic energy on the knife point whereas a Spin technique uses much of the applied energy to create the rotation.. Technically, with the spinning technique the kinetic energy is centered on the balance point of whatever is thrown (why a throwing star works ) Unlike the No Spin, which is more like a Spear.. as Adam points out… the closer the motion gets to “Hacking” the lower the depth of penetration.
I will add one more thing. Military half spin is also a very strong throw that could be used in a knife throwing situation. Also a throwing knife in my opinion should be used as a secondary weapon in combat. For instance if your rifle ran out of bullets and you were in a pretty close quarter combat situation then it could be a viable option. BTW: Excellent video. I would be curious to see if the ballistic gel was wrapped in a t-shirt or coat how the penetration would differ.
have you tried to lubricate any of those blades when doing the ballistic gel tests. flesh is mostly water and the natural wetness of it i believe lends itself to being cut and or penetrated, while gel does not.
I see a lot of people talking about spin and distance from the target, then I watch and use the no spin method and I believe the no spin is better than the spin because once you figure out the no spin you can throw a knife as hard as you can throw a rock and hit e Every time, I learned no spin in about 30 seconds and progressed from there
One thing to note is the wound channel, once that blade flopps around on the inside thats continually exapanding the wound channel increasing blood loss, thats the same effect that happens with a spear on a mouse or boar
I do not know what it's called exactly, but that "flopping effect" is the most lethal part, once the animal runs away and it flops, they are instantly dead, this wouldn't be as bad with a knife, but it would cause massive hemorrhaging
This guy is unreal! The little bit I have done with throwing, I was always more accurate throwing from the blade, because in my head, I could see how the knife would travel end over end, but nowhere near with the force this dude tosses.
That Yaku wide blade is the deadlier. Narrow blades cut deep but often miss inside the body .Wide blades like the Yaku knife slice and cut wide. Needing only about 2” deep making arteries ,ligaments tendons irreparable, sometimes.usually bleeding out faster as well.
I made one in my buddies forge, one side is pointier and the other side is fat. One gets good penetration while the other side sticks but hits real loud
I'm a hobbyist knife and axe thrower, we make it look it like it's easy, and the fact is, it IS easy for us, who've practiced a whole lot on our free time, but if I must reveal a secret to make people understand, just like our man here did, it is all about knowing your distance. We (me, brother, cousins) used to practice on an old and very large tree on my grandpa's property and once everyone had found their right spot (distance wise) some of us would hit it perfectly at every single throw, it got to the point where we would put our initials under our footprints at the right spot. We were kids (and teens) at the time and probably won't ever do this again, but back then, we felt like true warriors by using math without knowing it was math.
I don't think you can break bones with the handle. It would hurt a little but nothing you can just brush off. Tip first, okay, granted, but handle first? Nope. And during the gel test, I think the kunai penetrated just as deep as the kitchen knife. But you say one is big damage, and the other one is not. Hmmmm Either way, the camera work on this video is insanely good.
Fantastic throwing, Please mind that clothing adds a huge amount difference depending on the material. I have been throwing daggers for a few years and if for example wood is covered with jeans it's different then if something soft is covered like rubber. Please do a video with ballistic gel and different materials as clothing such as jeans, raincoat, leather, thick wool jacket etc. Some clothing is quite more resistant surprisingly even against heavier weapons especially if the point hits the target at an angle away from the 90 degrees.
Depending on who you are throwing the knife at and in which setting this is playing out, medieval settings for example, you have to account for some kind of armour or at least heavy clothing (for example usual modern combat gear or even a warm jacket). As seen in many gambeson tests those are quite good at stopping or at least softening the blow considerably. If we reduce the penetrating power of those throws in actual flesh due to this many of those throws wouldn't stop or incapacitate an opponent this close to you.
I always tell myself that, in the movies, they use poison, to explane the instant kill. A little Poison Arrow Frog secretions or curare (or curarei)...
I have once thrown two knifes from a friend who was very much into asian martial combat. The two knifes looked a little bit like the one with the broad tip, but they were not wide that and the tip more shaped like a spear point and easily four inches. Then came the broadest part, followed by easily six inches of blade going again narrower and a small handle. The lower half of the blade directly above the tip was blunt. They had bands of silk like cloth tied to the ring at the end of the grip. They were huge, heavy and easy to throw even for a total newb like me. No idea how good they would have worked out as a knife in combat, as they were totally top heavy. But that is a kukri too. Never seen similar knifes again.
I bet the silk cloth has the same function as fletching/feather in an arrow: it drags through the air a bit in order to prevent spinning and keep the tip straight. It allows you to use the same technique regardless of the distance.
My uncle served two tours in Vietnam. After the war, he became a draftsman and electrician. One day we were going to our hunting camp to do some carpentry and electrical work. He was standing a bit behind me and to one side. When I opened the door, a mouse started jumping up the risers of the wooden staircase about 4-5 yards away. In one smooth move, without saying anything my uncle threw a screwdriver from his toolbelt at the mouse and pinned it to the steps! He said that it was more luck than skill, and I believe him, but still . . . Later I did a lot of knife and axe throwing and I got pretty good at it, but later I learned that I was using the WRONG method. I used the spin method and never learned to do the straight throws until later. As a result, I am not as practiced with the straight throws now, which is unfortunate, because as Adam says they are better for combat. Still, I used to be a pretty good judge of speed and distance, and I knew the set distances that I could hit with a spin throw pretty well. I never had to do it in combat, but I did it quite a few times in training. I am not sure of the practicality of knife throwing. There is a big opportunity cost there in learning something else like jujitsu, knife fighting or gunfighting. Also, what are the chances that you are going to get into a situation, where you have to use that skill and actually have all the necessary parts come together? Many times throwing a rock, beer bottle or coffee mug is more likely and realistic. It starts with: Are you ever likely going to be in a situation where you need this skill? If you are likely to be in a situation where you need this skill, might not another skill be more practical/easier/better to learn? Are you aware of your surroundings enough to recognize the situation in time, when the time comes? Do you carry your knives with you everywhere (e.g. work, shopping, working-out, walking, during leisure time, etc.)? If you are in a fight what are the chances that your position/situation is such that throwing a knife will likely make more sense than deescalating, running away, punching someone, restraining someone, pulling a gun or a knife or just whacking the aggressor with a club, chair, stick, ball-bat or pipe, etc.? (Sometimes you might not want to throw a knife. Sometimes you might not be able to throw a knife. Sometimes a throwing knife is not the right weapon/response for the situation at hand.) Have you practiced enough that you can draw and throw quickly and accurately enough without telegraphing? There are so many variables that have to come together for that scenario to be viable, that you might be better off learning MS Excel, how to sew, how to drive, how to cook, whatever. If you are worried about fights and fighting knife-throwing is probably one of the last skills I would invest in. It takes a lot of time to be really good like Adam and for that scenario will probably never pop up in your lifetime. Even if it did you are more likely to use a gun or your hand-to-hand skills than you are to use a knife. Knife throwing can certainly be useful in a fight and it can distract some people, who are coming at you even if you do not hit well. But seriously, how often is all that going to come together and is the time that you spend learning knife throwing worth the opportunity cost of practicing your hand-to-hand skills or your skill drawing your gun? What I will say is that knife throwing is fun and it can be a kind of hobby on the side. You probably do a lot of other stupid or silly shit that does not have as much potential to help you in a bad situation (e.g. gambling, drinking, smoking, bullshitting, watching you tube videos, etc.) If you just stop doing some of that shit and make a few throws a day, you can get pretty good over time. So that you have another skill in your belt. At least, it can be a fun party trick or maybe help with vermin control. You are probably not going to carry a bayonet around with you unless you are in combat somewhere. Just sayin'. So are you likely going to be in a situation where knife-throwing skills are warranted? If you are is the opportunity-cost of learning how to throw a knife masterfully worth it in terms of all the other skills that you could potentially learn instead? Is knife-throwing something that brings you enough joy that you can practice it as a hobby on the side and develop your skill over time? You decide.
Great video. Quick question, would(or could) the thrown knives penetrate more if the ballistic gel mass was larger, or perhaps just more stabilized(like if the cube of gel was held in a form fitting cube cubby mounted on the wall)?
It sure will. A ballistic dummy would show that perfectly!! Really good idea from both you and me haha.. So now someone just have to make Adam a real lifesize Ballistic Dummy with for example pvc pipes as skeleton.
Wasn't it the Austrians that went into the trench only armed with a knife? The Rondal dagger did just what you'd think it would do. I don't know how to do it but we got to try to get you a ballistic gelatin torso. Maybe ballistic dummy Labs will sponsor you for a video I don't know. Can you ask your team to reach out? Tell them to make sure it's a zombie torso for TH-cam. Your the best Adam Celadin!
That was Italians 😎🔪 yeah I reach out to Ballistic Dummy lab but they offered only discount and it would still cost sooo much you know but there are fine 🙂 thank you brother
throwing with half/full spin on unknown distances is always a problem in movies, games and etc. A polish fantasy book "cienioryt" have a throwing knife scene which I really liked. Main character throws his side arm towards an enemy, but he just breaks his face with the pommel, cause he didn't have time for guessing the rotations
I will go with absolute fact. Throwing Knives are usually plenty heavy enough to cause serious damage. But relying on it is impractical compared to you know..updated weapons. But that doesn't mean it's less effective. Just like a bow and arrow has not lost its effectiveness at all and has it's place. But not practical in battle today. Super cool and super fun tho. And really enjoyable to practice as tournament or traditional martial arts practice.Even if it does work it's not like movies. I am sure you have seen pro knife throwera channel vs the ballistic head. It's super insane. If it's like, a big sharp knife...then..now we are seeing something very serious
One THROW One KILL: FACT Or MYTH?
Fact. I don't know if that's called the rondal dagger but I do know the taper of that point is meant straight up to penetrate the ribs and go into the organs I also know that a lot of those old school medieval daggers didn't have an edge they just came to a very sharp point for that reason. The way that you sink blades in dude especially with your no spin throw absolutely lethal 110%.
@@TheRealRomansThirteenNot really. It's speed multiplied by weight which equals force. If you stab someone, you ideally have a large part of your body weight behind the stab. However, if you throw the knife, you might have the same speed, but there is quite a lot of weight missing, since now its only the weight of the knife in the equation and not your bodyweight. No knife that you throw will penetrate through a rib. It might slide through between the ribs, but it wont penetrate through bone itself. Same goes for the skull. The temple and the eye socket, those are the points that a throwing knife could punch through. All the other parts of the skull, no chance. You need a force of 2000pa per square millimeter to penetrate the skull. I ran the calculations, even if the point was only one tenth of a square millimeter thick, and we assume, that the blade does not widen (which is impossible, because then it would be a needle), a 200g throwing knife thrown at 100km/h (which is VERY fast, since you dont throw a throwing knife like you would a baseball) would still produce way to low amount of force to penetrate or crack the skull. It would leave quite a mark on the bone, but it wouldnt penetrate through. We can make the blade heavier, but that wont really make a difference, because then you wont throw as fast, so it equals out.
So no, its nowhere near as lethal as video games or movies suggest. Its quite hard to land a hit in a way, that instantly kills someone. Serious injurys which can lead to death if not treated in a hospital yes, totally. But it will almost never be an instant kill.
@@lk-ip1xs you don't know what you are talking about...Knife throw Is waay more powerful then stab
@@AdamCeladin I am sorry, but then I have to contradict you and say you have no clue about physics. How could a throw EVER be more powerful, than a stab where the whole bodyweight is put behind it?! Just try grabbing the knife reverse grip and stab the ballistic gel with full force from above. When you stab someone, you can also hold the person or even pull him towards the knife, which again will double the force. I understand, that you love knife throwing, and I usually like your statements, but this I have to call out as crap.
@@lk-ip1xs That just show you are not a knife thrower and dont know anything about real power behind it - watch this and tell me sorry after ,) th-cam.com/video/wsX7vrJJIpU/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=QuintBUILDs
Adam. That a was fantastic piece of what really works and what might not. Great throwing. Great info. Thanks brother. Stick
Glad you liked it brother 🙏 🔪😎Wish you all the best in 2024 🗡
I always felt that knife throwing in combat was something you do moments before you feel you're gone anyway. Remember that scene from Saving Private Ryan when they keep chucking pistols and helmets at each other? Something like that.
If we're talking modern day, sure, it's pretty niche. Historically, it's more like a personal defense type of thing in situations where no one is likely to have armor (much like concealed carry pistols today). For instance, if you only have a dagger and some throwing knives against a sword, or only a sword and some throwing knives/bo-shuriken against a spear, your odds drastically go up, especially in group combat
While I see the stopping power of any thrown knife to be marginal, I think almost everyone will still flinch considerably when someone throws a knife at you. Because you know it will hurt and could cause a very serious injury, and when it comes flying at your face, you will flinch before you can even think about it. And for that purpose you don't need any kind of actual stopping power.
Even if it takes your opponent just a second to get his weapon back into a ready position and to focus his eyes on you again, that can make a big difference.
I can totally believe that some people threw knives in combat that way, and trained to do it effectively.
Just not for ranged stealth kills. Even if you hit, and you cause an injury, and that injury is actually fatal, there's probably still a 90% chance the guy will be able to do a lot of screaming.
@@Erideah swords were for personal defense. Spears were for war. Throwing knives appear most in societies without to much armor, like name an African country. Ninjas used them as a distraction to use more leathal weapons or run away. What daggers were known for in many societies was assassination or theft. So much so that people would go through the effort of making specialized short swords. Knives were general tools for many applications that had nothing to do with combat. Throwing weapons is as a distraction, and designated opener, or for hunting. Maybe in desperation.
@@danielcox7629 Very much depends on what place and time in history we're talking about. Spears are cheaper than swords, and polearms in general were often carried by guards or anyone who wanted to outmatch a sword--so bandits and the like as well as peasants
As we know about samurai for instance, if you are a warrior by vocation, you might have the luxury of throwing knives and spikes (metals weren't cheap after all), and a good amount of them put years into shuriken jutsu. You can use it for distraction or an opener, yes, but it also helps very much to close a reach disadvantage. Also, a spearman that might give you and your sword pals trouble by just backing up on light feet is a lot less trouble if one of you throws a tanto-shuriken or bo-shuriken in his neck or eye area, or even just starts him bleeding from anywhere and slowing down
There's a wide variety of uses, but they were rare, due to cost and the intense amount of training required to make them useful
I feel the same. I´d also rather throw anything else than my knife. I do have the feeling I´d be more succesful with the knife still in my hand, than if I throw it away. But it is all theoretical, I will never end up fighting with knives, throwing them or not.
Speaking of injuries due to rebound, I remember when I was first learning, I had a knife rebound and hit me square in the chest, right below the sternum.
The only thing that saved me was the fact that I was wearing a neck knife at the time. The rebounding knife hit the sheath dead-on, then shooting off to the side. Left a big ole gash on the sheath and a bruise on my chest.
It all happened in a flash, didn't even notice the rebound before it hit me. Rebounds are no joke.
I've had a rebound hit me in the flesh and it didn't even break skin. Unless you're the hulk at point blank range the worst you'll get is a papercut
Great job, Adam! You considered all posibilities here.
Basically, to be practical and lethal, the two key points are:
1) No spin throw.
2) Use and knife that is not too light nor have a too wide blade, to achive the best penetration.
well the wider one has more chance of cutting arteries. also note that balistics gel is much thicker then tissue. there were also no bones in the way. wht he needs is one of thoes torsos/heads from balistic dummy labs. but they are expencive so people would need to donate.
also i thought that the reflexive halfspin could be used at any distance. theres also the Skanf method of using your body like a whip to generate insane force when throwing.
I've read a fair bit of literature from studies on the subject that penetration wounds of more than about 1.5" depth tend to induce shock in the victim, even when the wound itself isn't fatal or striking any vital area.
yeah thats wild :O thank you for watching and comment my friend
Not to mention in a time before antibiotics, even a relatively shallow wound could lead to infection. Not quite the "henchmen have 1 hp" rule we see in movies an video games.
Where did you read that? Genuinely curious.
And also you have to keep in mind. that in a real knife fight. see prison videos for reference. the goal is stab, stab, stab. multiple times as fast as possible. it's documented that a single pistol round, has less shock effect I. E. stopping power than a shotgun round.
@@CaptainTechnicalFrom "a fair bit of literature" obviously.
You know the exact amount that it's so commonly written down that it surely must be true. But also not written down enough that anyone seems to know, talk, or cite it at all. And also that just right amount where when asked it about its source or validity you don't have to cite anything "because surely you should be able to find this information because it's so common and proven emperically true".
You know... All the literature about the exact, to the decimal point, depth of penetrative wound which will always cause an average adult to go into shock.
THOSE literature.
I was just talking about this in old cowboy movies, I just find it humorous they show about half an inch of knife steel in someone's shoulder and he dies instantly, then they find a cowboy laying in the road who has been shot in the heart with a 45 and they lay a folded up bandana on it and say hang on I'll go get help😂
I love westerns and laugh at the shoulder wounds that don’t knock em down- ever. They are great fun though. (Insomnia and now going to go watch the B&W era westerns, thanks!)
I can't believe this is even a question. If you poke a hole in the right place on a human body, with a knife, bullet, arrow, ice pick, or any other device, the human body is going to cease to function. It does not have to create a temporary cavity in ballistic gelatin. It just has to make a hole in the right place.
Exactly 💯
Thank you for exposing the myth about movie knife 🔪 throwing.
Well if you actually study knife attacks you'll find out not necessarily true. A friend of mine was attacked and stabbed around 10 times through the back and body punctured a lung collapsed it cut an artery did some other massive internal damage. He is still alive and working just fine today. He was the one who called 911 and was found passed out in a pool of blood. Most killings with a blade take dozens and dozens of stabs to finally kill the victim. Yes a good cut to the right arteries can bleed u out quickly. That is rare and very hard to actually do. Statistics says it all. Most actual murders with a blade take so many stabs it doesn't even make sense. Yet report after report is that way. So many times I heard said why did you stab him so many times. Only to hear he wouldn't die or he kept fighting. Since especially a sharp knife the body had an amazing ability to seal up the wound to a small degree internally and keep someone from dying right away. That's knowledge gained from paramedics nurses police and Doctors. I started asking those questions as a teenager and 40 plus years it's always been the same.i have never heard of a less then dozen stabs wounds that killed someone. I'm not saying it's not possible just not likely and not what I have ever heard of read or seen before. My father was an emt and my mother a paramedic then an ER nurse in a big town. So yeah I got to hear a lot of stories of this sort of thing. Just information take it as that and double check what I said. Hope it helps enlighten someone out there.
And you base your argument on the number of people you’ve killed or witnessed being killed?
@@philsturgill3435 nope reports from paramedics emts ER nurses and doctors along with what I have read in the papers over the years and what I heard from some police who talked about different stabbings and shootings the responded to. Look you can be a total Moron think your right and discount everything I said as nonsense. Or maybe just maybe let a miracle happen use that little bit of brain for some real research look up stabbings yourself and see first hand what they entail I your own big cities. When you do that then decide if what I said makes sense or not. Until then you don't have the knowledge and definitely you don't have the experience. So stop trying to be a keyboard bully your opinion of me or what I say is nothing more then a fart out your blow hole hot air in the wind. Until you do the work you got no background knowledge to pull from
I remember watching a documentary back in the day on ninja's and throwing spikes, shuriken, and throwing knives and it always stuck with me that you're not going to 1 shot kill with a throw unless you can bury a knife through the skull, so regardless of the implement it's mostly meant as a distraction to get you to "flinch" so the ninja can retreat or press his attack with an advantage, because even a skilled fighter having something fly at their face or chest is going to have to work to react especially if they don't expect it and as you demonstrated, even a hit from the blunt end can deal damage of some kind.
Superman may be bulletproof, but he still flinches if you throw a gun at him.
I think your making a very good " Point" 😁
100% facts
I am always amazed that the blades appear to sink deeply through bone (like ribs) in a vertical orientation, instead of horizontal (which would slip between the ribs better) Heck, if they hit them in the back, it is always THROUGH the shoulder blade.
Learned how to throw knives but practicing throwing butter knives into trees.
Never thought it would penetrate but sure AF does.
Way back in 1976 or so my first fencing coach mentioned that he had been a champion knife-thrower in his youth. Excited, I asked him what kind of knife I should get for defense. He looked at me sadly and said "get the heaviest knife possible so that when it doesn't stick it will at least hurt him a little".
I don't know what I did to the algorithm to get this dude's video but I'm glad I did! He's hilarious and informative! New fan!
Thank you my friend
It would be interesting to see how they penetrate on an anatomically correct torso that you see on the gun channels. Bones are in them.....
Thanks for keeping it real. Too many people live in the movies.
There’s also the saying to keep in mind. Never throw your weapon away. 😉
Thank you :)
Adam, this is a super interesting subject to me, and one that I have put a ton of research in. I've been throwing knives for over thirty years and this channel (@AdamCeladin) is one of the very best!! Much respect to you and your research. Your stuff is always top-notch. :)
So first off, I respectfully submit a differing opinion to your testing medium and the outcome of this particular test based on my experience.
I have first-hand experience hunting with throwing knives on live targets in the jungles of Central America and the woods of North Idaho.
I have also used ballistic gel, cold hanging slabs of meat and wooden targets. Each of these mediums has a VERY different reaction to blades. A thrown knife will literally pierce straight through living bone and tissue of a wild jungle pig and come out the other side like an arrow from a bow. It absolutely DESTROYS organs and causes catastrophic system failure in living organic creatures. Ballistic gel is not a good medium for blades. It is too "gooey" and sticky to replicate living tissue and bone. Bodies are containers, hide stretched over a tent frame and filled with blood bearing organs and viscera. Once a point punctures, it is like a balloon inside. Very little resistance. Humans are not solid creatures, but hollow. Wood is essentially armor for knives, and cold hanging meat is a better medium although tougher due to the constriction of the muscle fiber. I did send a 9-ounce knife through two hanging beef sides in a butcher shop with a half-spin.
Think of the knife as an arrow without a shaft, or the tip of a thrown spear. It is a sharpened steel point that penetrates into the organs. Arrow and spear wounds are rarely an "instant" kill because of the time required for bleed-out. It's the same with a thrown knife.
A head-shot is typically so catastrophic that the animal will drop instantly from shock, although they are hard to pull off. Lung and heart hits bleed out like arrow wounds with between 10-30 seconds until lack of consciousness.
It is worth noting that a very sharp knife will create large "Nike Swoosh" type wounds in living tissue because of the rotation of the weapon, which was unexpected to me. Apparently this has to do with the Conservation of angular momentum and the fact that the blade is still trying to rotate after impact. It seems like the edge was the path of least resistance.
Also worth noting: Big, heavy knives are very effective at stopping animals whereas lighter blades only create superficial wounds. It does make quite a difference.
As always, I appreciate your channel and your videos! Keep rocking!
Lucas
That’s way sick dude. Thanks for the stories and perspective. I didn’t even know people hunted with throwing knives!
Question: how do you get the distance right when throwing?
I liked it that in the Strike Back show the one time there is a knife-throw kill it's a no-spin throw.
I love that you've become the voice of knife-throwing! I've followed you for quite some time and you're so down-to-earth and have great humility. Also, you've got such a practical, realistic view of the sport. It would be easy to try to over-romaticize it but throwing weapons is already sexy enough...no need to make it into something that it's not.
Sadly, my throwing days are pretty much over since I had shoulder surgery a few years ago. So I live vicariously through you and your channel.
Keep up the amazing work!
Thank you so much for nice words my friend 🙏take care
This is an excellent illustration of why throwing knives have traditionally been used as distractions more than weapons. Also the spin / distance is why the hurlbat was created in the medieval era. Points in EVERY orientation so it is GOING to stick. Kill? Unlikely. Hurt like hell and distract them while you close in with a sword? Yup.
I can't remember where I read it, but I vaguely remember a book with some young kid throwing his knife into a stump, and the old, grizzled veteran asks why. He says he can kill a bird in flight, and the veteran asks something like "Can you kill two? No? Then keep your knife close and practise the bow". We make different weapons to do different things for a reason.
Also, if you miss with something like the hurlbat, the enemy still has to run across a field strewn with sharp and pointy bits of metal.
@@MrVeps1 Caltrops...one of my favorite sneaky implements. But very true. There is no "good at everything." Different tools for different jobs. Also no need for artificially increasing difficulty when there is a more reliable and simple alternative. (why I take a bo staff or club over nunchuks for example)
Really cool to see the test with ballistic gel Adam! Much love, you taught me everything i know about throwing ❤
Glad you enjoyed! Thank you my friend 😎
Knife throwing history:
Grey Otter
In World War II, he took out a German sentry with a downhill bayonet throw of 87 feet. He drew bead on a spot about three feet over the sentry's head and let fly, the bayonet rotating end-over-end and taking the German at the base of the skull.
I never trusted this story...too much of a distance for Spin rotation (I speak about this in my first point) this was war propaganda in my opinion:)
@@AdamCeladin agreed if it happened as the story said it was pure luck or the target was closer than 87 feet speed, drop, weight of the knife etc all have to be factored in and a spiral toss is not as fast as a straight throw.
But as you mentioned in the video..even if the handle hits..it will brake bone etc..
I to dont believe that he stuck it tip first..but its possible to kill from that range with both sides of the knife.
And as always...Supernice content !!@@AdamCeladin
Background and the fact that bayonets are balanced for chopping and weighed like a much longer knife might make a difference. It's worth a debunking video.
I believe this story is in Harry McEvoy's book on knife throwing. If I remember correctly, Grey Otter had been a pro knife thrower before the war, and everyone including him was surprised he actually managed to make such a lucky shot. It does seem possible, just extremely difficult.
I always found it telling that I can get a knife to stick far deeper into wood with a throw then a manual stab, and I just figured any hit on a vital organ would spell massive injury or death fairly easily
Yes, but hitting a vital organ with a thrown knife is not easy. Especially if the target is defending themselves
I noticed this as a kid playing with a piece of rebar. Both hand jumping down on wood i could poke a good hole throwing the rebar it would stab in deep enough to stand on its own.
Don’t ever call yourself a good knife thrower!! You are not a good knife thrower! You are THE knife thrower! I’ve been watching your videos for a long time. You’re awesome! You’re a legit bad ass…
Thank you my dear brother
@ of course! Congrats on your growth, keep it going! We’ll keep watching!
In my first year of knife throwing I bought a hunting knife with a wooden handle and a very sharp blade. I threw it a few times without much success. The handle being made of wood did not give it a good weight to volume ratio. So I started to throw it harder and harder... Then the knife landed on the board on the handle, which made it bounce back to my right arm... Now I've got 6 stitches.
Good thing about it is that for 3 months I had to use my left hand to throw so now I can pretty much throw from both hands. Sharp tips, and if there's any blade, make sure it's dull.
Please take great caution if you happen to take up throwing Axes.....
My friends & I used to throw knives at a target. We got absolutely deadly as long as our stance, footing, distance, target, etc. didn't change. ;) It was fun!
Amazingly well edited so fun to watch - really appreciate the time you put into this, makes for super high quality content
Thank you very much my friend :)) BIG Thanks Goes to my friend great Cameraman/Editor Peter.
Great way to meditate. I practiced for a while many years ago and found it relaxing. Fun to do. It's been years though. I think I will pick it up again.
Very good video👌I was in the army in special forces and instructor on hand to hand combat was showing as how litle penetration had a clunky bayonete when trowing... Instead they teach us how to trow entrenching showel and military axe... That two inflicted some serious damage😬
Thank you my friend 🙏I love to throw both shovels and axes too they are effective and useful tools in general
I am 53 years old. I have thrown knives my whole life. I stared throwing knives when I was around 6 years old. My dad knew a circus knife thrower that got me started. And you are right about the spin. I have buried the point to the point that the tip snapped off when I pulled it out. So it's not about how hard you throw it's more about skill.
There was one time I was going through some old stuff on the porch. There was an old cheap ice pick dagger in the box. I threw it at a log near the porch. It buried deep enough that it took splitting the log with an axe to get it out. It was worthless after that because it warped it. So in that case the very thin light blade would have been lethal.
Thank you for comment my friend
Those are my favorite movies, Desparoto and Natural Born Killers
Yeah two classics from the 90s. Natural Born Killer is quite an experience to watch
Thank you for adding safety information as well to the danger of rebound. I'm interested in learning throwing but never considered this.
Thank you my friend
The study of counter Ambush has brought me to so many different instructors. Hopefully everyone in this community has some exposure to it too. To Matie, Ed Calderon, Libra knife fighting, and Clint Emerson. Among them studies though there's a lot of artery and organ targets. Counter ambush is the study of striking shock zones to incapacitate an attacker, but they can also be lethal. The arteries that we know especially in the neck area with your precision it's absolutely a go and is 110% lethal. The Carotid artery jugular artery and trachea. The bronchial artery, also from above if you were throwing down you have the subclavian. If you hit low there's an artery in the navel there's also the femoral arteries. For Organ placement the lungs the heart the kidneys and the liver and spleen. Very low perhaps the bad guy is running to cover to shoot at you. The Tibia artery. If you could sink the I shot and penetrate the orbit old school zgb style also deadly. The temple and occipital lobe for head hunting too, to get into the brain organ that you have to get through the skull. It also has to be noted the most poison arrows darts and throwing weapons were poison tipped. Some stuff out there is terrible, just a nick or a scratch, and you're out of it. The Catholic Rosery is a hint* to that. I hope they cast you for John Wick 5. Someone from Hollywood should have noticed by now.
Thank you my my friend 😎🔪you are right even bad ricochet could have serious consequences
The huge dagger throws is savage 🔥💀
I think you demonstrated perfectly what a dagger was designed to in the first place, through out history it was kinda the finish blow on the battle field or a street fight, easy to hide and in the same time used in combination with another sword.
thank you :))
Circus knife throwers ARE super accurate and ARE able to do full power throws EVERY TIME. Everybody else typically can't match them.
Even they can get screwed up if you give them knives with different weights and balances.
@BlooCollaGal sabotage? ... that's for anybody & anything! Bad fuel can sabotage a racer, bad bullets a sniper ... and what's your point then? 😁
4:52 that laugh gives me years of life
My best friend that lives in the woods taught me how to though a knife straight without spin, but he taught me his underhand technique. I got pretty decent at it, but it has been a while since I’ve tried.
We used to play horse with throwing knives. We learned distance was the number 1 factor for us to stick it well. Each knife had a different distance. Once you found that sweet spot, though, it was on.
4:50 Hahaha he wasn't even trying ...
Too good 🔥
You can make up for lack of mass with greater speed, but the techniques to throw faster preclude controlling the spin. So then you're into needing to throw things where the spin doesn't matter.
I almost got cut multiple times attempting knife throwing.
Today I know what mistakes to avoid... specially what kind of blades. how much power and what distances to start...and since I haven't done in ages I will have to start from scratch.
Great video!!
THANK YOU!!
thank you my friend .)))
Long time ago mi no visit that Channel. Do you wanna Battle? Arrow vs Knife Speedshooting? Greetings from Switzerland.
Another great video. Very genuine, very informative and I appreciate that you remind people of the potential dangers, even while practicing. Well done.
Thank you.
Thank you my friend
One of my ex-girlfriends really wanted sai knives, like Raphael's in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I forged them from rebar. When thrown from a distance of 5-7 meters into a tree, they stuck in such a way that they could only be removed with a tire iron
I wouldn't really call sai "knives" since they're usually just pointy...
You know, one or two inches of penetration can be severe, if, for instance, it hits you in the neck, thigh, arms or legs, solar plexus, etc. at the same time, I think based on what I've seen in this video, I'd say that it really doesn't have enough momentum to pierce bone, and the relative chances that a knife goes through a ribcage doesn't seem great, to me. Ribcage being roughly center mass, or where you would basically want to aim. There's not many organs you could do major damage to underneath the ribcage, either, not in the 2 inches of penetration this has. Perhaps a knife can sort of find its way in after deflecting off a rib, and maybe the stiffer structure of the body overall might lead to a deeper penetration, but it seems apparent that the ballistic gel is much too good at absorbing the energy from the knife, especially as it goes in an inch or two.
Other people have brought up coverings, like denim, jackets, what have you, but I'd like to say that I think you should do a test with a larger piece of gelatin, and maybe a more secured piece of gel, something with a rod driven through it, like a bone might be, in order to keep it locked down, or a clamp, because I don't know if that would help or not.
I would also think that maybe sharper, or more concave grinds, and thinner blade profiles might help here, with blade weight and flexibilitythen being the issue, which would make me think that a thin blade with a heavy and thick center mass would be the most well-suited to hitting someone with a throw, maybe even with barbs, or single sided serrations, so it works in over time, and can't be taken out. Fullers might also be useful, as they might concentrate the force more thoroughly on just the edge of the blade, rather than the whole of the blade.
I dunno, requires further testing, but I don't think that it's looking like a particularly lethal or even generally good form of attack, considering the incredible amount of damage you could do with a knife in your hand, and the relatively lower distances required to be accurate, and have low travel times. Overall, it would maybe seem to be a technique of last resort, something you might throw out if you think someone might draw a gun and shoot you, or something you might do if you're not confident in your knife-fighting ability, which, to be fair, is pretty well-justified, based on how knife fights tend to go. Even if you're the only guy with a knife, it might go sideways. Or maybe something you might do if you just have a knife in hand, and then intend on drawing a different weapon that might be a better option for you, like a baton, or a heavy flashlight, or running away.
High speed cameras might also be useful for analysis of how we could design a knife that does this more effectively, and I'd also wanna see spin throwing, just for comaprison, even if I agree it's really not a practical thing to do for the vast majority of people.
Those daggers reminded me how much I wanted a set of the ones from V for Vendetta... unfortunately I can't find them from a seller I'd trust to give me something usable...😢
Also: ballistic gel is even harder to cut/ penetrate than flesh.
If you were using a throwing knife as a weapon, you want it to fall out of the wound. If the knife sticks, it'll restrict bleeding which is why you keep the object in with puncture wounds.
That thick kunai is still very dangerous despite it not being able to penetrate as deep. I wonder how it would do with a grazing blow or with spin.
Super interesting, Adam ! I'm practicing knife throwing for fun and to develop accuracy, but there's very little chsnce I'll ever throw my knife as I often have things to throw for distraction (rocks, stick, stuff on a desk 🫡)
Still, it is fun. Thus, I continue training, and thus, I am more precise 😁
Thank you my friend nice to hear ,))
@7:35 , a great many people don't understand kinetic energy and here you explain it
Yup ,)) thank you my friend
I liked what Jagged Alliance 2 did with knife throwing.
It was one hit kill rom stealth, but did superficial damage if the enemy was aware of you.
Cool idea
This is the best knife throwing video I have seen
Thank you my friend and i willhave even better one next week :P
Красавчик,соскучилась,по пирату.😊😊😊😊😊
Как всегда на позитиве.😊
Спасибо, Ольга )) надеюсь, у вас все хорошо
I've been wondering about this 🤔 thanks 😊
very satisfying video bravo adam for all the things u make 4 us!!be safe and stick your knives!!!!!!
I believe that one throw one kill in games is a balancing choice. You need to sacrifice a piece of ammo that you do not carry a lot of or worse you need to throw away a melee weapon to make the attack.
To make it "worth it" in the game mechanics, it needs to at least be a sure thing. In a shooter usually the throwing knife will replace a grenade, so you need it to give you a similar effect to a grenade for it to be worth having it, as an example.
From a physics standpoint.. a No Spin throw focuses the kinetic energy on the knife point whereas a Spin technique uses much of the applied energy to create the rotation.. Technically, with the spinning technique the kinetic energy is centered on the balance point of whatever is thrown (why a throwing star works ) Unlike the No Spin, which is more like a Spear.. as Adam points out… the closer the motion gets to “Hacking” the lower the depth of penetration.
just reminded me, I have a bunch of wee kunai like the one shown. Did have one bounce back and hit my ribs when i was first learning to throw
Would a bigger but heavier knife like a leather neck or small bowie knife be fatal if thrown?
Great video covering it all I’ve been watching your content for the last year and have lots of respect for you keep it up man
I will add one more thing. Military half spin is also a very strong throw that could be used in a knife throwing situation. Also a throwing knife in my opinion should be used as a secondary weapon in combat. For instance if your rifle ran out of bullets and you were in a pretty close quarter combat situation then it could be a viable option. BTW: Excellent video. I would be curious to see if the ballistic gel was wrapped in a t-shirt or coat how the penetration would differ.
Thank you ,)) i will do test like that on Saturday, with clothing it was totally different i was really surprised.
Can’t wait for it to start! ❤
Hope you liked it 😎🔪
Thank you for sharring, Mate!!! Very, very importent to know, cause accidents happens now and then. Blessings from Denmark! 🇩🇰
Great stuff. Brings reality to knife throwing!
Thank you my friend 🙏be sure to check my new video as well 😎
have you tried to lubricate any of those blades when doing the ballistic gel tests. flesh is mostly water and the natural wetness of it i believe lends itself to being cut and or penetrated, while gel does not.
I love the knights throwing knife, Wonderful design.
Thank you my friend 😎
The real trick is the one with Chuck Norris, they don't show it but that is the 143 person that that knife hit. 1 throw 143 kills.
I'm impressed, a very honest video and it's mirroring my own experience fully.😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Adam, never lose that accent. I love it. You sound cool. And you throw pro! So cool. Just started Bo shuriken!
Thank you my friend
I see a lot of people talking about spin and distance from the target, then I watch and use the no spin method and I believe the no spin is better than the spin because once you figure out the no spin you can throw a knife as hard as you can throw a rock and hit e Every time, I learned no spin in about 30 seconds and progressed from there
One thing to note is the wound channel, once that blade flopps around on the inside thats continually exapanding the wound channel increasing blood loss, thats the same effect that happens with a spear on a mouse or boar
I do not know what it's called exactly, but that "flopping effect" is the most lethal part, once the animal runs away and it flops, they are instantly dead, this wouldn't be as bad with a knife, but it would cause massive hemorrhaging
This guy is unreal!
The little bit I have done with throwing, I was always more accurate throwing from the blade, because in my head, I could see how the knife would travel end over end, but nowhere near with the force this dude tosses.
Thank you my friend
Talking about knife throwing rebounds, if you’re throwing knives, always have a first aid kit nearby and know how to use it!
That Yaku wide blade is the deadlier. Narrow blades cut deep but often miss inside the body .Wide blades like the Yaku knife slice and cut wide. Needing only about 2” deep making arteries ,ligaments tendons irreparable, sometimes.usually bleeding out faster as well.
Fantastic video! Awesome 👍👍
Thanks for the visit
Just saw a video you did prior to this one... excellent work!!!
Awesome, thank you!
Awesome throws Adam
Thank you my friend
I love the videos you have such a great gift GOD bless
Thank you so much!
What makes the one throw kill even better is he does it SOUTHPAW 😎
After seeing you stick the back-end of the knife, I couldn't help but think: What about double-sided thrown weapons?
They are easy to stick and big damage too
I made one in my buddies forge, one side is pointier and the other side is fat.
One gets good penetration while the other side sticks but hits real loud
I'm a hobbyist knife and axe thrower, we make it look it like it's easy, and the fact is, it IS easy for us, who've practiced a whole lot on our free time, but if I must reveal a secret to make people understand, just like our man here did, it is all about knowing your distance. We (me, brother, cousins) used to practice on an old and very large tree on my grandpa's property and once everyone had found their right spot (distance wise) some of us would hit it perfectly at every single throw, it got to the point where we would put our initials under our footprints at the right spot. We were kids (and teens) at the time and probably won't ever do this again, but back then, we felt like true warriors by using math without knowing it was math.
Also, subscribed. Great info!
Thank you very much 😊
4:51 Plot Twist ...
He INTENDED that !
Every video of you just tells me that Marvels Bullseye is one of the best written and most sensical characters. :-D
YES :D There is really something about his Charakter that make it more realistic compare to other heros with too much super natural skills
Would like to see something similar with different types and sizes of throwing stars.
I don't think you can break bones with the handle. It would hurt a little but nothing you can just brush off. Tip first, okay, granted, but handle first? Nope.
And during the gel test, I think the kunai penetrated just as deep as the kitchen knife. But you say one is big damage, and the other one is not. Hmmmm
Either way, the camera work on this video is insanely good.
Fantastic throwing, Please mind that clothing adds a huge amount difference depending on the material. I have been throwing daggers for a few years and if for example wood is covered with jeans it's different then if something soft is covered like rubber. Please do a video with ballistic gel and different materials as clothing such as jeans, raincoat, leather, thick wool jacket etc. Some clothing is quite more resistant surprisingly even against heavier weapons especially if the point hits the target at an angle away from the 90 degrees.
Thank you very much i will make Clothing on Ballistic Gel for sure ,))
@@AdamCeladin You're welcome, it will be awesome and fun!
@@AdamCeladin did you make it ?
@@glugtrop2010 yes
@@AdamCeladin link?
hi can any knife be thrown straight ? or are there forms/ designs unable to make it ??
Yes of course any knife
Depending on who you are throwing the knife at and in which setting this is playing out, medieval settings for example, you have to account for some kind of armour or at least heavy clothing (for example usual modern combat gear or even a warm jacket). As seen in many gambeson tests those are quite good at stopping or at least softening the blow considerably. If we reduce the penetrating power of those throws in actual flesh due to this many of those throws wouldn't stop or incapacitate an opponent this close to you.
You need to be the advisor for the movies! This was a great presentation
I always tell myself that, in the movies, they use poison, to explane the instant kill. A little Poison Arrow Frog secretions or curare (or curarei)...
Good content. Although I was actually expecting bowie knife throw performance to ballistic gel since FACT Or MYTH from movies.
Many of the throws on the ballistic gel had significant contact with the post the gel was sitting on. That had to effect the penetration of the throw.
Im practicing No Spin Momently. So much fun. Always best Angle.
Awesome Ben, will have cool video about no spin on Saturday :P
I have once thrown two knifes from a friend who was very much into asian martial combat. The two knifes looked a little bit like the one with the broad tip, but they were not wide that and the tip more shaped like a spear point and easily four inches. Then came the broadest part, followed by easily six inches of blade going again narrower and a small handle. The lower half of the blade directly above the tip was blunt. They had bands of silk like cloth tied to the ring at the end of the grip. They were huge, heavy and easy to throw even for a total newb like me. No idea how good they would have worked out as a knife in combat, as they were totally top heavy. But that is a kukri too. Never seen similar knifes again.
Niceee thank you for watching and comment 🙏
I bet the silk cloth has the same function as fletching/feather in an arrow: it drags through the air a bit in order to prevent spinning and keep the tip straight. It allows you to use the same technique regardless of the distance.
My uncle served two tours in Vietnam. After the war, he became a draftsman and electrician. One day we were going to our hunting camp to do some carpentry and electrical work. He was standing a bit behind me and to one side. When I opened the door, a mouse started jumping up the risers of the wooden staircase about 4-5 yards away. In one smooth move, without saying anything my uncle threw a screwdriver from his toolbelt at the mouse and pinned it to the steps! He said that it was more luck than skill, and I believe him, but still . . .
Later I did a lot of knife and axe throwing and I got pretty good at it, but later I learned that I was using the WRONG method. I used the spin method and never learned to do the straight throws until later. As a result, I am not as practiced with the straight throws now, which is unfortunate, because as Adam says they are better for combat. Still, I used to be a pretty good judge of speed and distance, and I knew the set distances that I could hit with a spin throw pretty well. I never had to do it in combat, but I did it quite a few times in training.
I am not sure of the practicality of knife throwing. There is a big opportunity cost there in learning something else like jujitsu, knife fighting or gunfighting. Also, what are the chances that you are going to get into a situation, where you have to use that skill and actually have all the necessary parts come together? Many times throwing a rock, beer bottle or coffee mug is more likely and realistic.
It starts with:
Are you ever likely going to be in a situation where you need this skill?
If you are likely to be in a situation where you need this skill, might not another skill be more practical/easier/better to learn?
Are you aware of your surroundings enough to recognize the situation in time, when the time comes?
Do you carry your knives with you everywhere (e.g. work, shopping, working-out, walking, during leisure time, etc.)?
If you are in a fight what are the chances that your position/situation is such that throwing a knife will likely make more sense than deescalating, running away, punching someone, restraining someone, pulling a gun or a knife or just whacking the aggressor with a club, chair, stick, ball-bat or pipe, etc.? (Sometimes you might not want to throw a knife. Sometimes you might not be able to throw a knife. Sometimes a throwing knife is not the right weapon/response for the situation at hand.)
Have you practiced enough that you can draw and throw quickly and accurately enough without telegraphing?
There are so many variables that have to come together for that scenario to be viable, that you might be better off learning MS Excel, how to sew, how to drive, how to cook, whatever. If you are worried about fights and fighting knife-throwing is probably one of the last skills I would invest in. It takes a lot of time to be really good like Adam and for that scenario will probably never pop up in your lifetime. Even if it did you are more likely to use a gun or your hand-to-hand skills than you are to use a knife.
Knife throwing can certainly be useful in a fight and it can distract some people, who are coming at you even if you do not hit well. But seriously, how often is all that going to come together and is the time that you spend learning knife throwing worth the opportunity cost of practicing your hand-to-hand skills or your skill drawing your gun?
What I will say is that knife throwing is fun and it can be a kind of hobby on the side. You probably do a lot of other stupid or silly shit that does not have as much potential to help you in a bad situation (e.g. gambling, drinking, smoking, bullshitting, watching you tube videos, etc.) If you just stop doing some of that shit and make a few throws a day, you can get pretty good over time. So that you have another skill in your belt. At least, it can be a fun party trick or maybe help with vermin control.
You are probably not going to carry a bayonet around with you unless you are in combat somewhere. Just sayin'.
So are you likely going to be in a situation where knife-throwing skills are warranted? If you are is the opportunity-cost of learning how to throw a knife masterfully worth it in terms of all the other skills that you could potentially learn instead? Is knife-throwing something that brings you enough joy that you can practice it as a hobby on the side and develop your skill over time?
You decide.
Thank you very much for nice comment :)
Great video. Quick question, would(or could) the thrown knives penetrate more if the ballistic gel mass was larger, or perhaps just more stabilized(like if the cube of gel was held in a form fitting cube cubby mounted on the wall)?
It sure will. A ballistic dummy would show that perfectly!!
Really good idea from both you and me haha..
So now someone just have to make Adam a real lifesize Ballistic Dummy with for example pvc pipes as skeleton.
thank you my friend yeah we need full size dummy for sure !!!!
great to see some reality from a talented athlete. great job!
Wasn't it the Austrians that went into the trench only armed with a knife? The Rondal dagger did just what you'd think it would do. I don't know how to do it but we got to try to get you a ballistic gelatin torso. Maybe ballistic dummy Labs will sponsor you for a video I don't know. Can you ask your team to reach out? Tell them to make sure it's a zombie torso for TH-cam. Your the best Adam Celadin!
That was Italians 😎🔪 yeah I reach out to Ballistic Dummy lab but they offered only discount and it would still cost sooo much you know but there are fine 🙂 thank you brother
Was a knife thrower in The Crow too. Is there a backhand throw that is effective? Have you ever taught a baseball pitcher with a 100mph fastball?
Backhanded is awesome and never been teaching pro pitchers but it's my plan 😎👌
throwing with half/full spin on unknown distances is always a problem in movies, games and etc. A polish fantasy book "cienioryt" have a throwing knife scene which I really liked. Main character throws his side arm towards an enemy, but he just breaks his face with the pommel, cause he didn't have time for guessing the rotations
I will go with absolute fact. Throwing Knives are usually plenty heavy enough to cause serious damage. But relying on it is impractical compared to you know..updated weapons. But that doesn't mean it's less effective. Just like a bow and arrow has not lost its effectiveness at all and has it's place. But not practical in battle today. Super cool and super fun tho. And really enjoyable to practice as tournament or traditional martial arts practice.Even if it does work it's not like movies. I am sure you have seen pro knife throwera channel vs the ballistic head. It's super insane. If it's like, a big sharp knife...then..now we are seeing something very serious