What is good orchestration?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- A short look at what makes for really good, artistic orchestration.
www.alanbelkinmusic.com
© Alan Belkin. All rights reserved.
(This replaces an older video with the same name. The content is the same, but the musical examples sound MUCH better in the new version.)
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The bassons are the game changers
Yes!
Well, it sounds a bit too much with the bassoons but I understand your point.
Jorge F. P. Ramos Maybe in mixing they'd turn down its volume a little
Interesting how I share the points of the three prior comments: Yes! It sounds a bit too much with the bassoons, but they will work well with appropriate mixing.
An intelligent video certainly emboldens intelligent comments:)
That's my moto!
Note by a young composer. Not every thing needs to be densely orchestrated. It really depends on your idea. Ex. If you want to match two parallels sound worlds of dull and bright than the first example (flute and trombone) wouldn't be so wrong, right?
But then, great video! I was just warning for not taking these rules as a must do. You should take into account the rules, but the composer role should know really well when to break them.
After all, even C. Debussy said: "Works of art make rules but rules do not make works of art."
Nice said, Claude!
couldn't agree more with that
Thanks I just came here to make a comment about that
I like the way you think. The composer should write what he knows and feels
I had a similar thought. Although I love what Alan has done with this theme, and the final version is likely more usable in many circumstances, there could also be a situation where the first simple “not ideally matched up” version works or is needed. In fact it could even be used within the same piece as this theme is developed and changed to add variety to the theme.
2:55 as a bassoonist, I think this is where it's perfect
Splodinate Kabloominate I agree
Brilliantly presented. simple and effective. Thank you for your valuable time & sharing knowledge.
Beethoven is Not a composer...he is an Artist perhaps the Greatest. He doses not write for the sake of writing instead he bends sounds of the instruments to meet his artistic creativity. Bernstein is right when he says that there is only form. From a fragment of notes he was able to transform that fragment in a total symphony. All composers do that but Beethoven took this concept to a sublime height. Whatever he erote eas not usuale..I would say unusuale. His piano techniques is unique where other composers and pianists took inspiration...even the same Liszt. No one is the same after Beethoven. Thank you for this fabulous video. A great work. I would like to be your student. Thank you.
@@francobonanni3499 i think he is talking about Beethoven 1st symphony. Brilliant intro. and the 4 famous notes of classical music, the 5th symphony.
Valuable, concise lesson! Some of the comments below are credible; however, there's only so much one can fit in a five-minute video about a vast topic such as orchestration. With thanks to Mr. Belkin for his instructional video, I humbly offer the young composers out there a piece of advice from Nadia Boulanger, who is credited for teaching many of the leading composers of the 20th century: "To study music, we must learn the rules. To create music, we must break them."
I agree, but let's acknowledge that with each different orchestration we are in effect changing the piece itself.
I mean, there's obviously a huge difference between flute and trombone vs. string ensemble. And adding the bassoons in sustained tones gives texture and richness, but it too substantially changes the piece, from mere strings to a fuller mixed orchestral sound. It's not hard to imagine that adding upper winds throughout as well as brass tones would alter it even more, at which point it could hardly be said to resemble the original two part, two voice theme at all. Sure the melody is the same, as well as the underlying harmony, but the orchestration has been so significantly modified as to make it an entirely different work.
Which is of course the very point of orchestration: to keep the same material and extend its possibilities. The bassoons only added what is implicit in the music already there.
Different work?? In that case, every piano reduction is a 'different work'.
@@nakedmambo Interesting words. What is implicit depends on our own notions, sometimes.
Not to disparage - this was good and informative - but the better example would have been to show good and bad orchestrations within the same instrumentation, rather than showing the basic reduction of the music "badly" orchestrated between two mismatched instruments. A simplistic or amateurish orchestration of the final woodwind, timp and strings version would show much better contrast, and you could develop the final orchestration even further - not by adding instruments, but by changing the parts. As for quartet - orchestrated well, a quartet could play this piece with great depth without needing additional lines added.
And to stick up for trombone and low flute, I bet played live with some finesse that'd be a great texture!
DaveDexterMusic I'm not sure if you'd ever really hear the flute.
lol right? kids and their midi toys have no idea how a real orchestra sound like... no wonder mr. Belkin had to put a reminder on the very beginning of the video about that. This guy is clueless and talking out of his ass.
Orchestra orrangements cello
It would work in concert band when you have like five flutes together. I wouldn't leave the trombone as is though. Either different instrument or changing it to suit. The point of the video though wasn't to create a flute solo, the point was to show orchestration lol.
DaveDexterMusic, do a vídeo, man.
Q: "whats your favorite ensemble?"
A: "strings and 1 vibraphone"
- Bernard Herrmann
Well done video. You've managed to demonstrate some really good tips within 5 minutes using just 4 bars of music. A nice little orchestration tutorial snack.
Hello Belkin! I downloaded your note de cours in OO group on facebook and it is really helping me a lot! Now, with these videos, seeing it coming true will help me even more. Its amazing. Thank you.
Incredible clarity. I was really struggling to make heads and tails of orchestration. You've just cleared it up in a matter of seconds. A master teacher. Thank you.
That is one of the paciest instructional videos I've seen in some time, most concise! Thank you, Alan!
I don't like the upper woodwind in the final version. The oboe, above the flute, sounds too obtrusive.
I believe the levels were not that important in this video. It was aimed to show how to split the melody, rhythm and bass parts between different instruments to unleash their full potential, as well as how to layer various instruments for texture and emphasised phrasing.
you find it oboetrusive?
Taste....
Orchestration is all relative nonsense tbh. I personally like the first one more than the other examples.
Same. The first version sounded fine to me, and so did the strings up until the bassoons were added, at which point the whole thing starts to sound overwrought.
This is one of the most helpful videos on orchestration I've ever seen and I want to thank you for it. And for the writings on your homepage as well, they have really helped me
This was so easy to understand! Thanks so much for this short explanation, Alan!
I think the flute/trombone thing can definitely be good for *something*. For example, if you're trying to symbolize someone with strong emotions who has a hard time expressing themselves, a "dull" melody and a "bright" accompaniment works really well, I think. I understand that the video is supposed to be generally speaking, but we gotta keep in mind that it's about what your going for.
Thank you Alan! Very simple and instructive. A mind opener.
Beautiful lesson. Thank you for posting.
really great tips, thank you Mr.Belkin
Great hands-on presentation - thanks for posting!
Great lecture, please post more like this! Thank you!
i would love more videos like this one, it's absolutely wonderful explained
Wonderful presentation! Lovely piece, too!
i didn't know it was impossible to make good music with only a flute and a trombone
alan simply doesn't like it
This is excellent. Very informative and easy to follow.
Thanks Alan . . . a short but informative tip!
A great video! Will show to my students. Thank you!
Great explanation! I think subtlety is vital for an orchestration to seem purposeful and natural, rather than instruments being used solely because they are listed in the ensemble
This is such a fantastic video!
Thank you for the lesson.
Toata admiratia domnule profesor pentru aceste cursuri de orchestratie online .
Wonderful explained as everything Ive found from you Alan. I wish I could study with you... maybe some day!!! Big congrats as always and thank you for keep sharing your knolledge!!!
Thank you for sharing this interesting material! Simple and enjoyable way to learn about orchestration. Greetings!
You are amazing!
Incredible lesson. It’s so concise
Brilliant. Thanks
Extremely helpful!
Exactly what I needed. Thank you!
Really awesome advice with real examples!
This is gold Maestro, thank you!
loooooove you
and your clear understanding for music concept
what a great lesson..!
This is EXACTLY what I needed to see
Veryry interesting, thanks for uploading this video.
thank you very much
Thanks so much for these videos! Very informative.
Thank you for this!
Clear & on point thank you much appreciated
Simple and enlightening! Thank you
Thank you for this helpful video.
Thank you. You saved my time with that. Love to hear my music in orchestral sound but compose an idea on guitar or piano. You showed me the way to move farther.
Thank you, this is much needed!
Wonderful. Concise in a way no teacher could have dreamed of- - Rimsky- Korsakov would have celebrate your fine, short example.
We see and hear the transformation!
I really enjoyed this! thank you for this!
this was very informative thank you.
Thank you very much, that was very insightful and helpful. I also had another reason for wanting to watch your video. I didn't know whether instruments in the same group should be written on the same staff as chords, or given their own independent staff. But what you did with the Bassoons and Flutes gave me my answer. Thanks again, you saved me a lot of research time.
Love this one 🙂
Love it!!!!
Excellent!!!! Thanks a lot!!
this is helpful, thank you
Thanks for this lesson Alan! Can't wait for more. I'm also a big fan of your website. Sadly I don't speak french, so I can't understand the rest of your videos.
YESSS BEAUTIFUL LESSON, THIS IS WHAT I WANT....
So usefull. Thank you!
Amazing
Thank you. It's very good points. Appreciate it.
Thanks. Very good and usefull.
Very informative!!
I think I learned more about orchestration in these few minutes than I have playing an instrument my entire life.
Hi, a very good a easy way to explain what is really orchestrate. Congratulation!!!
Greatest 5 minutes lesson I have ever seen :)
2:00 Damn, that is a huge difference!
Thanks!! Like vey much you way of exposing things!
Damn, this really helped me a lot ! Thanks !
This is exactly what I needed for my composition. I was struggling big time with the orchestration. Thanks for this.
Very Informative
Very nice explanation... Thank you!
Great!
Thank you! Cheers from Jakarta, Indonesia!
very good i like it
Great video. I've tried subscribing to a number of different people who provide orchestral tips and all of them have just annoyed me with their arrogance and snobbery, you're the first person I've come across that isn't like that. I subscribed. Thanks for the tips.
Liam Bradbury Music . Yes Liam. I agree with you.
Thanks!
Great video. I don't understand orchestration very much, but your video gave me great info which I'll use in a folk song I'm making.
Thank you. Wonderful video! would love to see more!
There will be more soon. :-) And if you speak French, there are 6 full length lessons (about 2h30mins each) already on my channel.
Thanks! I speak a bit of french but they may be a bit hard going. Will give it a go.
Dear Sir.
You started at the rudiments and accelerated to a rich sounding version.
Thank you for this enrichment.
the pizz bass is where it really changed for me
Very interesting for me
Bravíssimo! 👍🏻😁
i’m glad you didn’t put the cello’s slurs on the pizz double bass part. speaking as a bassist, slurs don’t mean anything 99% of the time when there’s pizz
Thank you. This provides many great ideas for an amateur like me.
By the way, what library do you use to play these music?
Thanks you
eye openning
😊 😊 🙏
this is truly amazing. thanks so much for sharing
i am wondering if you have a book, class, or course on orchestration?
The first example at 00:54 is the Kyrie from Rheinberger Mass in Gm for upper voices :)
Thanks Mr Belkin, very great stuff which goes straight to the point. Just one comment : there are some parts the Alti are above the Violin II in the range so voices are crossed. I thought in classical musical (specifically in choral writing) it was not allowed. Is it acceptable in orchestration and/or post-Wagner and modern composition? Thank you so much
Very good! I would put an E in the second bassoon, first bar third beat.
What programm are you using for the notation & does it haven an digital musik library + output or is some orchester playing it ? :) i have sibelius 7 and dont know what du buy for better quality
didn't noticed that it was 5 minutes, it felt like a minute !
Really nice video ! What about Changing à little the doublebass line instead of just be one octave lower than the cellos ? For example, by putting the last note an octave lower again to copy the movement of the timpani and ad more deepness ?
Thanks, good introduction for those who''re interested in leraning orchestration. Good job! P.s. BAR 2: Bassons- I think that playing A-C instead of repeating F-A would be better....
How to take two lines and arrange it for the orchestra: what a beautiful lesson.