Dear Sir, You said a lot in a short time. Every word was useful, made sense, and led someone who writes music away from the path of alienating an audience. Thank you for this brilliant essay. It means a great deal.
Thank you for this upload. Many do not understand that just because modern music is not always tonal does not mean there is no reasoning behind the motion.
The Persichetti book is utterly phenomenal. Written to be USED, which can't be said for a LOT of books on 20th century harmony that are either WAY too steeped in 'mathematical proofs, or are just a string of examples the most basic types... reminds me I ened to reread the Persichetti in case there was something that I missed earlier
"A composer needs to be able to build transitions btw kinds of harmony".Thanks for your uploads,Mr.Belkin.It's so interesting and inspiring every time.
@@alejandrom.4680 I find the sound and texture beautiful. The oboe tune is nicely in a smallish range, with not too many wide leaps. Extending this fragment to a composition of substantial length, though? I remain to be convinced. The composer would have to create tension and release (otherwise the composition would be boring), and find some way of making resolutions convincingly *sound* like resolutions. Tonal harmony provides the means to do this. Atonal music lacks this. It's not enough to just stick in the occasional chord that lasts longer than the ones before.
Wonderful video! Definitely some interesting things here to experiment. I also enjoyed the higher-level look at the concepts shared by both tonal and non-tonal systems.
Thank you. You are a great teacher. I'm a composer who studied and studies composition but I didn't major in it. So your valuable help is greatly appreciated.
I have been following this channel for years. Having never had any formal training in music theory, one must seek out resources that crystallize or otherwise extend an understanding of the mathematical logic inherent in good composition. Your videos are excellent in so many ways. I don’t understand why this channel isn’t wildly more popular. Also enjoy hearing your compositions. Thank you for all the lessons. Each one is a special gift for the uneducated folks like me.
High quality video with insightful discourse on the topic. Wish there were about 500 or so more videos on the same topic, going into more and more detail, as the production quality makes these easy to watch.
Hey! As an aspiring music composer, I wanna thank you for providing us this video and your website for free! I am about to learn as much as I can on Persichetti's 20th Century Harmony - and hopefully do as much of his exercises - and this video is a great supplementary (or rather, complementary) material for me to learn alongside the book, really!
Alan, do you have any recommendations for reading/learning materials for Wagnerian/Late romantic chromaticism? I'd quite like to pad out my knowledge in the field to accompany my 20th Century, and modern harmony exploration! Any recommendation welcome :)
The mode that you use in your example the the chapter "Harmonic Zones" is also Messiaen's sixth mode of limited transposition, first transposition, minus its seventh tone (i.e. B natural)!
Thank you so much! I'm not a big fan of atonal music but your examples were so awesomely crafted and interesting, so I shall study more of this so I can incorporate it to my composition :)
Since tonal music is based on physics and math (e.g., the overtone series), I wonder if atonal music, such as that demonstrated in the examples here, will ever be acceptable to the ordinary person. After all, look at the most wide-spread music all over the world, pop music, which is still grounded in I-IV-V, for god's sake. So much for expanding the "ears" of the general populace with the passage of the centuries. If I am correct, then it paints a gloomy future for composers of concert music, who will attract an ever-dwindling audience. I note that harmonically adventurous "free jazz," popular for a short time in the 1960s, never really caught on, but "smooth jazz" is bigger than ever.
Hi, everyone. I'm a harmony learning beginner. I know intervals, but in 3:11, I don't know how to count on 2nd and 7th harmony in this score. To look at bass part or high part or both?
I learned so much from this video! Totally enlightening! I've been brainwashed by jazz pianists with their giant two-handed clusters for example. As in all of life simplicity is best! Thank you very much for clearing away My musical fog. Maybe I'll get to be a real composer one day after all. Gee whiz, I'm only 62.
I don't understand why all three parts arrive at their final notes by step. I see A going to D, B going to C and C going to Bb. Or is it something like: There are C, B and A And after that there's Bb, Eb, C and D So A has a note one step near itself which is Bb B has a note one step near itself which is C C has a note step near itself which is also Bb And it would not be in terms of voice or pitch, but more pitch classes. ?
@@authenticmusic4815 4:00 : "and all three parts arrive at their final notes by step". I wondered what Alan Belkin at this time of the video. If we take the last notes of the penultimate measure, we get C, Bb and Ab. Now let's connect them to the nearest note coming after them. C is going to Bb. Bb is going to C. Ab is going to D. So Ab is not moving by step. So that's not what he means. So let's try another way. We have C, Bb and Ab as starting note and Bb, Eb, C and D as ending notes. I can connect C to Bb or D. I can connect Bb to C. I can connect Ab to Bb. Let's give D to C so that each note has a different ending note. Now everything is connected by step, but it's more about pitch classes than precise pitches.
A lot of what you said make sense, but I couldn't connect to any of the musical example... They just seemed like... bad music. I guess it kinds of connects to what you said about "logical theories doesn't always have something to do with how people hear music".
Lost me at 1:32 when he said the first and third chords are identical as are the second and fourth. A,F,G (ascending) are identical to D,E, F#? or G, Eb, D to C, Db, F. It may be that they are stepwise notes in a scale but they are different inversions which asks questions about the overtone series.
They are different transpositions of the same chord: 1 and 3 were both three notes separated by whole notes. It’s like saying 1/3 were major chords with different tonics, while 2/4 were diminished chords with different root notes. You understand?
For the last 100 years, composers have written music, some of it absolutely wonderful, without adhering to any of these 'general principles.' There are no 'general principles'. This language of conciliation and moderation is just regressive and ideological because it stands in the way of people finding their own way - the only hallmark of quality and talent.
"no ideological slant" that's impossible. You can't take your personal ideology out of anything related to art. I think what this really means is that you find the ideological slant to be agreeable, which is fine. Very interesting video, though.
Dear Sir,
You said a lot in a short time.
Every word was useful, made sense, and led someone who writes music away from the path of alienating an audience.
Thank you for this brilliant essay.
It means a great deal.
Steve Hinnenkamp Yes, Steve. Yes.
Thank you for this upload. Many do not understand that just because modern music is not always tonal does not mean there is no reasoning behind the motion.
The Persichetti book is utterly phenomenal. Written to be USED, which can't be said for a LOT of books on 20th century harmony that are either WAY too steeped in 'mathematical proofs, or are just a string of examples the most basic types...
reminds me I ened to reread the Persichetti in case there was something that I missed earlier
"A composer needs to be able to build transitions btw kinds of harmony".Thanks for your uploads,Mr.Belkin.It's so interesting and inspiring every time.
The best thing i found on TH-cam ... in any category...
Meme category?
Thanks Mr Belkin for your uploads. They are absolutely gold.
Thank you, sir, for an invigorating, concise lesson.
You open doors to a territory to be discovered and shaped by the individual.
Bravo!
Very good!
I love yours classes!
Thank you very much, Mr. Alan Belkin!
This was very enlightening. Thank you. Looking forward to the course.
Outstanding video, very educational, clear, and inspirational. Thank you for the upload.
You are a great teacher Alan. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
The piece at 3:11 is fantastic. It inspired me for my composition assignment.
anybody know if there is a full piece for it?
Rob Storm it sounds like something out of Muramasa the Demon Blade.
Is there something wrong with your ears?
@@bronktug2446 the piece is beautiful, you're the one that may be deaf here.
@@alejandrom.4680 I find the sound and texture beautiful. The oboe tune is nicely in a smallish range, with not too many wide leaps. Extending this fragment to a composition of substantial length, though? I remain to be convinced. The composer would have to create tension and release (otherwise the composition would be boring), and find some way of making resolutions convincingly *sound* like resolutions. Tonal harmony provides the means to do this. Atonal music lacks this. It's not enough to just stick in the occasional chord that lasts longer than the ones before.
Wonderful video! Definitely some interesting things here to experiment. I also enjoyed the higher-level look at the concepts shared by both tonal and non-tonal systems.
These are wonderful short courses and they are so clear I can keep them in mind and apply them as I compose. Thanks, Alan.
Absolutely phenomenal. Thank you for your time and effort!
Thank you. You are a great teacher. I'm a composer who studied and studies composition but I didn't major in it. So your valuable help is greatly appreciated.
This is simply. Truly. Awesome. Merci
I have been following this channel for years. Having never had any formal training in music theory, one must seek out resources that crystallize or otherwise extend an understanding of the mathematical logic inherent in good composition. Your videos are excellent in so many ways. I don’t understand why this channel isn’t wildly more popular. Also enjoy hearing your compositions. Thank you for all the lessons. Each one is a special gift for the uneducated folks like me.
Bravo Maestro! thank you for posting this! super informative and educational.
Amazing! Very useful video.
A fascinating video, thank you for sharing it.
Greetings from Perú!, and thanks for sharing this.
Excellent lesson. Well explained, and the examples are so useful!
High quality video with insightful discourse on the topic.
Wish there were about 500 or so more videos on the same topic, going into more and more detail, as the production quality makes these easy to watch.
10 more are on the way, see: www.patreon.com/AlanBelkin
Hey! As an aspiring music composer, I wanna thank you for providing us this video and your website for free! I am about to learn as much as I can on Persichetti's 20th Century Harmony - and hopefully do as much of his exercises - and this video is a great supplementary (or rather, complementary) material for me to learn alongside the book, really!
Very educational video! Thank you for uploading it!
Alan, do you have any recommendations for reading/learning materials for Wagnerian/Late romantic chromaticism? I'd quite like to pad out my knowledge in the field to accompany my 20th Century, and modern harmony exploration! Any recommendation welcome :)
The mode that you use in your example the the chapter "Harmonic Zones" is also Messiaen's sixth mode of limited transposition, first transposition, minus its seventh tone (i.e. B natural)!
Great and adult. Looking forward to more on this channel. Thanks :)
Thank You!!! Mesmerezing.
Great lesson,
Best from Maracaibo.
Thank you so much! I'm not a big fan of atonal music but your examples were so awesomely crafted and interesting, so I shall study more of this so I can incorporate it to my composition :)
Great concepts presented here. awesome work
Great information. Thank you.
Excellent. Simply, excellent
A really great video.
wonderful video, thank you
extremely helpful - thank you.
You sir, are brilliant. Thank you
wow, you are a genius... so under-rated. (only 1:43 into the video thus far)
great video thank you!
oh my lord, 6:36 is SOOOO coool and beautiful. Thanks man
Mr. Alan, The music at 6:37, is That in any musical composition? if not it should be, so Lovely. Thank You.
excellent! thank you
That was interesting. Great video.
7ths and 2nds so nice jazz pianists choice.
Thank you so much
thanks for the Persechetti book listing
what a great resource
Very useful!
Great stuff Alan. How is it that this video has no likes.
Since tonal music is based on physics and math (e.g., the overtone series), I wonder if atonal music, such as that demonstrated in the examples here, will ever be acceptable to the ordinary person. After all, look at the most wide-spread music all over the world, pop music, which is still grounded in I-IV-V, for god's sake. So much for expanding the "ears" of the general populace with the passage of the centuries. If I am correct, then it paints a gloomy future for composers of concert music, who will attract an ever-dwindling audience.
I note that harmonically adventurous "free jazz," popular for a short time in the 1960s, never really caught on, but "smooth jazz" is bigger than ever.
Idk generations change
thank you
Brilliant 👏
FANTASTİC LESSON
Thank you for the video. You mention "harmonic systems that don't make audible sense". Could you please name some, or link to some examples?
great stuff but i don't see the link to the free book. Wonderful videos and course - thanks
alanbelkinmusic.com/site/en/index.php/introduction/ :)
Hi, everyone. I'm a harmony learning beginner. I know intervals, but in 3:11, I don't know how to count on 2nd and 7th harmony in this score. To look at bass part or high part or both?
fantastic! Can't wait for more!
tnx
9:30 hindemith harmony
I learned so much from this video! Totally enlightening! I've been brainwashed by jazz pianists with their giant two-handed clusters for example. As in all of life simplicity is best! Thank you very much for clearing away My musical fog. Maybe I'll get to be a real composer one day after all. Gee whiz, I'm only 62.
I don't understand why all three parts arrive at their final notes by step.
I see A going to D, B going to C and C going to Bb.
Or is it something like:
There are C, B and A
And after that there's Bb, Eb, C and D
So A has a note one step near itself which is Bb
B has a note one step near itself which is C
C has a note step near itself which is also Bb
And it would not be in terms of voice or pitch, but more pitch classes.
?
What the hell are you talking about?
@@authenticmusic4815 4:00 : "and all three parts arrive at their final notes by step".
I wondered what Alan Belkin at this time of the video.
If we take the last notes of the penultimate measure, we get C, Bb and Ab.
Now let's connect them to the nearest note coming after them.
C is going to Bb.
Bb is going to C.
Ab is going to D.
So Ab is not moving by step.
So that's not what he means.
So let's try another way.
We have C, Bb and Ab as starting note and Bb, Eb, C and D as ending notes.
I can connect C to Bb or D.
I can connect Bb to C.
I can connect Ab to Bb.
Let's give D to C so that each note has a different ending note.
Now everything is connected by step, but it's more about pitch classes than precise pitches.
That atonal line made me feel like I was gonna smash the keyboard before the resolution comes in at 11:33, wich sounds like smashing a keyboard
vacuum and emptiness are nothing if without a good chord
wow
Did you mean Gabriel Fauré??
A lot of what you said make sense, but I couldn't connect to any of the musical example... They just seemed like... bad music. I guess it kinds of connects to what you said about "logical theories doesn't always have something to do with how people hear music".
Lost me at 1:32 when he said the first and third chords are identical as are the second and fourth. A,F,G (ascending) are identical to D,E, F#? or G, Eb, D to C, Db, F. It may be that they are stepwise notes in a scale but they are different inversions which asks questions about the overtone series.
They are different transpositions of the same chord: 1 and 3 were both three notes separated by whole notes. It’s like saying 1/3 were major chords with different tonics, while 2/4 were diminished chords with different root notes. You understand?
woooooooooow
For the last 100 years, composers have written music, some of it absolutely wonderful, without adhering to any of these 'general principles.' There are no 'general principles'. This language of conciliation and moderation is just regressive and ideological because it stands in the way of people finding their own way - the only hallmark of quality and talent.
Recommending a book from 1961 on 20th Century (needless to say tonal) harmony, for heaven's sake.
Can you provide some examples of "wonderful" music from the 20th century that doesn't adhere to general principles?
@@garrysmodsketches To keep it simple, start with Ravel and then everyone who came after.
ah yes, Ravel notably didn’t use voice leading or accents 🧐
نژادعسگر
no ...just hindemith harmony
"no ideological slant" that's impossible. You can't take your personal ideology out of anything related to art.
I think what this really means is that you find the ideological slant to be agreeable, which is fine.
Very interesting video, though.
this video insults islam because its not muslim music
Cry about it
A lot of cacophony.
Atonal is yuck! 🤢