Will Long Range Batteries Make EV Chargers Redundant?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- EV charging locations are springing up around the country. And that's great news for EV drivers. However, the range of electric vehicles is ever increasing and future technology breakthroughs could fundamentally transform the charging landscape. So to find out what's really going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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Well there is the other option of smaller batteries with 10 minute charging times and 100 to 200 mile ranges which would give the Motorway service station chargers a reason to exist.
Advantages:
1) Range that actually matches distances people might need on a day to day basis.
2) Smaller cars become possible again (don't need to fit in a big battery pack)
3) Cheaper cars (because of lower battery cost)
I was about to say the same.
Although people first need to get over their range fixation.
("How much range does it have?" is always the first thing ICE drivers ask me.)
Smaller battery = lighter car, more efficient.
10:12 we probly don't need 500,000 super chargers. But we do need on street overnight charging for those who can't charge at home. Say 5-22kw maybe lampposts?
True.
5.4 million people live in flats.
@@harmony3138 and only 49% of those in flats own a car/van according to the 2021 census. Flats tend to be in built up locations like towns/cities where public chargers are more likely to be built.
@@harmony3138 yes but many ground level flats do have off street parking. Also a lot of houses/flats with no off street parking can use things like paveCross or charge bridge to get power out over or under the pavement.
So maybe 4 million will need to charge somewhere other than their domestic supply.
They won't need one each , not with the average car only being driven 150 miles a week.
So maybe 500,000 on street overnight slow chargers? When EVERY car is an EV.
@@harmony3138 th-cam.com/video/teUH_ykENV8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=U7nlbWcBxlhU-Lki
I already do this in my 300 mile range EV. Public chargers are so expensive that I totally avoid them. I often drive from Hampshire to Yorkshire to visit family and plug into their 3 pin mains socket overnight with the Granny charger. There is always enough charge to run about while in Yorkshire and get back home again without using the rip off public charging network.
Completely agree with you. We might already be approaching peak rapids chargers but need more at the services. I have a leaf so I visit chargers on a long journey a lot. But, will be changing to a bigger battery car this year and I fully expect to reduce my rapid charger need by 2/3s minimum. The thing to remember is that we are at only 1/32 of the car fleet as EV so a long way to go yet but we certainly won't need 32 times more rapids.
I agree with you. I don't have an EV yet ( on order). They are just this min installing the home charging point.
95% of the time I will charge from home. At first I was worried about all the dif charger stations around, but after I realised how little I will use them. I am not bothered.
I am getting an EBerlingo ( 7 seater Motability car), so the range is conciddered poor by many but the car suits my needs and the range 95% of the time will mean charging at home max once a week.
Afyer I realised this, I stopped worrying.
Here in France, you can rapid charge for as low as 25c a kWh, not a lot more than charging at home overnight on the “cheap” tariff of 20c a kWh.
Now you can see the dilemma facing investors in the charging network, what’s the point of throwing all this money to build a network that wont be needed by most EV drivers over the next decade.
In the long term, the real revenue for charging networks will come not from people traveling beyond their battery range, but people unable to charge at home for whatever reason using public chargers as gas stations.
@@ab-tf5flso DC fast chargers need to live off the few people who can't charge at home and do road trips. So 20% out of 20% so 4%
I think we almost have enough for that now!
Generally agree with you. However, one thing to factor in is the time to charge at home on a 7kW or worse a 3.5 plug charger. One of the first lengthy trips with my Ariya 87kW would have left it with only 10% in the battery and I needed it early the next day for another lengthy trip. Even on 7kW it would have taken 10 hours to fully charge. Hence I chose to use an IONITY charger on the way home and a snack. Also saved fighting with my wife on who had priority on the charger ( She has a BMW i3)
When I changed from my 38kwh Ioniq I looked at Tesla Model 3 Highland. I only needed about 50 miles more for most of my journey's on a home charge. I only need a Highland RWD at £40k. It would have cost £10k more to have long range with 80 mile more range. £10k saved would give me about 22,000 kwh on supercharger's or 100,000 miles. So long range model would only save 10 minutes charging time on long journey with cost of £10k more. Unless you do long journeys most of time then large battery is waste of money.
I had a gen 1 Renault Zoe which did 80 to 90 miles on a charge, so when visiting mt brother I had to charge en route to make sure I had enough range for the round trip. But now I drive a Renault Zoe ZE 50 which has three times the range so now I do not have to stop and charge at all. It has made a complete difference to my journeys and charging needs.
Thanks Dave, in all this Tesla charger hullabaloo, no one has mentioned this. Elon Musk is privy to the latest Battery developments and can clearly see home and destination chargers are all that are needed in most countries. For those who can't home charge, one charge a week at a high speed charger will suffice for most needs.
The advantage of longer range is that even after 10 years degradation you still have a longer range.
The disadvantage is the extra resource used in the batteries and you are always carrying around the weight (even if they are getting more dense).
Even with your examples then how many times per year would you actually benefit from the extra range?
I have replied on previous videos saying we need more destination chargers. Totally agree that if you do not need to charge and pay the high priced rapid charger prices you won't. Often I only need a small top up to get back home, say adding 50-80 miles extra. Some trips have been longer but very few and even then 200 miles in a day is still a fair distance. If you are then at a hotel and can charge, that is the best option.
Banks of cheap rate destination chargers especially aimed at those who cannot have home charging should be the goal of the government. Essentially making EVs more viable for everyone. On the flip side it’s interesting to see Osprey installing a couple of 60kW charging stations in two locations in Poundbury, Dorchester. Perhaps charging hubs will be a solution. Also big batteries are not cheap so getting the best battery you can afford might mean only having a 200 mile range and for 95% of trips that’s fine. Then you just use public charging for 5% longer trips.
In the future there will be cars with cheaper, lighter, faster charging batteries. One way to take advantage of this would be longer range, but if I can charge in 10 minutes then perhaps I'd prefer to keep the battery capacity the same and have a lighter, cheaper car rather than save a few pounds on the few occasions in the year I go on a long journey? Faster charging also means that more cars can be serviced by the same number of chargers. However, the big driving force moving things in the other direction is that currently there are only just over 1 million EVs on the road, so there will be 30x more EV's eventually. This will take 20+ years to come to pass though, so there will be plenty of time to build extra charging capacity as needed.
Budget cars will always need public chargers. So far the early adopters are better off and can afford bigger/better cars and park them on their driveways. Once we get towards mass adoption, comprised of smaller/cheaper cars with smaller batteries and often with no home charging, will still require public chargers.
Good thing is battery tech will trickle down so smaller and cheaper cars will get more range.
I did this when I purchased my last EV. I had the choice of buying the 60kwh version or the 80kwh at much higher cost. I opted for the bigger battery car as most of my journeys are local but each week we do a 100mls journey to our holiday Lodge. By opting for the bigger battery we can do the journey there and back including some local driving whilst we are away. This means we very seldom ever use public charging and 99.9% of our charging is done at home at 7.5p per kWh.
This happened when ICE cars could go further and further meaning many servos would have to shut down as it became unsustainable to operate. It still happens today as many ICE cars get more fuel efficient and many servos continue to become unprofitable. They only stay when more and more ICE cars need the servos.
I remember back in the 70's (yes it shows my age) when my dad had to stop to fuel up just for a 400km trip in his '66 Ford Fairlane, now almost all cars can do that without refueling.
I can drive from Adelaide (S. Aust) to Melbourne (Vic) , a distance of about 750Km, in my Hyundai 2012 i30 with only one stop. During the 90's I did the same in my old '78 Holden Gemini and needed at least 2 - 3 stops. My situation shows that the efficiency of ICE cars are getting better meaning many servos loose out as more cars just bypass them.
This is presuming everyone can charge at home, but many cant. And this is also presuming you'll be checking in somewhere for the night. Some people travel A to B and back to A again, sameday.
True, but I can charge at home and I don't do long distance in a single day.
Is that all 240miles mine does 328miles 😅 on sunny day.. haha. Dave your brilliantly good with narration on your video.. So informative for me as a nubie ev driver. I'm not concerned on charging as there is enough out there and now tesla has opened up non tesla ev at their superchargers. I also have access to free charger places as well. Not concerned on long journeys.
A friend of mine just put this comment on a post of mine "On our third EV, saved £16700 on petrol in 7 years doing 103000 miles"
The amount of people that just mention the headline news "save money on petrol" but not mentioning the initial higher sticker price, the accelerated depreciation, higher insurance costs and shorter tyre replacement times. I am sure in this example "and others" that there was not really any savings, but rather additional expenditures.
@@hadtobe4502 Well I suspect that you have decided that you don't want an EV 'no matter what' and anything put will not change your mind.
However lets go through your points.
I didn't post all of my friends reply as it is long.
The car I am getting is practically the same cost as the Diesel version I have now.
A lot of people do not buy outright these days and use things like PCP/etc
One of my daughters has done this most of her life.
I remember back in the 70's people moaning about the fact that as soon as you took a new car off the forecourt, it lost loads of money, so nothing new there!
The insurance group for the EV I am getting says it is the same group as the one I have now. YES some are higher, but so are some ICE cars.
My friend has had three EV cars and my daughter has had two. Neither of them has had to replace tyres (One might for a puncture not sure) In the same time I have had to have six tyres replaced on ICE vehicles. Four due to wear and two due to punctures too close to the wall.
If EV's are not for you then DON'T BUY!!!
I thought the same until I actually looked into it and spoke to people I knew that have had EVs. One person I know didn't get on with them. 'Just didn't like them!'
but they also couldn't get on with an automatic car or any ' electronic "crap"'
They were happy with a manual ICE car with no automation (very hard to find these days).
Do you buy new cars? Or are you like many of use that buys second hand?
There are some very good value second hand EVs now and since they have found the batteries are lasting a lot longer then they thought, they are very good deals. My friend leased the first two but bought (second hand) the latest. I think ex lease and only had 15.5K on the clock. Loves it and he does big miles these days (with kids at Uni in dif parts fo the country).
As I said I doubt any of what I have put will change your mind but hey you never know. Perhaps you will (as I did) actually look into them then diced if they suite your needs. They may or may not.
Hey Dave, was great seeing you today at Everything Electric, ora stand. Hope you had a great day. Guy in wheelchair lol. Thanks for all the informative videos
Great to meet you and thanks for your support, Dave
Interesting point, if slowly people have charges at home you can charge at family and friends upon visiting, if they live far away or if they don't mind using a 3 pin even. But not an issue for quick top up on the way I can only count on one hand how many times a year I travel that far.
I'm in Ireland and drive an Ioniq 6, very happy and I've yet to need a public charger the range has just been that good... I see EVs in China now with 500 mile real world range and I'd basically be able to go anywhere in Ireland and never need a public charger. Great, right? Well, I want to pose a question to you Dave. When considering the fact we need to transition to EVs as quickly as possible, for the sake of public health and climate change, what is better... a 500 mile luxury EV or 2 x affordable 250 mile EVs? Perhaps it's a little selfish to want a 500 mile EV when the same resources could be used to make two more smaller, affordable cars that would suit 90% of peoples needs easily, and potentially take 2 combustion engine cars off the road. If people only road trip around once a year, surely they can tolerate a 20 minute stop to recharge that one time a year, and producing EVs with longer ranges is just a waste of resources?
Dave. I stayed a night at the dragon hotel in Swansea a couple of years ago. There weee 3 or 4 very old tesla destination chargers in a small car park that was full of ICE cars. Luckily I got the last space by a charger but the charger didn’t work. The next door space also has a charger but a van was parked there. Luckily the cable just reached my car. So it’s hit and miss if you can get on a charger but it is a deciding factor on what hotel
I would choose to stay at
I think we'd have to consider the used EV market when talking about the number of public charges needed. Once there is an establish second hand market, those cars will be current models and ones that are a few years old. There'll also be many more of them, so I think it's still necessary to have a large, cheap public EV charger network. There's also the people who can't charge at home who would appreciate having abundant chargers and choice nearby.
I have said this before in other comments. The longer the range of the cars the less need there is to charge out on the road. I think the rapid chargers will become freed up unless the prices of using them come right down. What is needed, IMO, is more 7kWh chargers located at workplaces for those who can't charge at home. I do know there are "rent your driveway" apps that can now add on EV charging so if you could undercut the networks and help out neighbours at the same time.
Tbh every parking lot, public or private(employee), should have an 11 or 22kW outlet (with cable!) and the need for DC charging will be a lot less. It would also save a lot of money on grid upgrades as the high power demand is reduced. If there is no 400V available then at least a 230V 32A for 7.4kW.
The ability to graze everywhere make EVs much easier for those who dont have drives. Slower chargers are much cheaper and so the rate should be lower. Ads Bjorn Nyland says ABC: always be charging
I would say mostly yes. I have not travelled 400 miles in one go for over 10 years ! My longest journey now is 220 so just over my i3 range. 400 miles will be perfect for most and I would say more than most petrol cars even my Prius. I guess we will even see 600 miles in less than 5 years from now. p.s that 220 trip is there and back !
would be interesting to understand what the payback period for a charger is... what kind of usage does it need ? Its an interesting topic.
Rapid rate chargers will still be needed for those who can't charge from home (who increasingly are being either forgotten or deliberately ignored by many of the Pro EV commentators). Either because the larger batteries will need it, or because second-hand vehicles with lower capacities will need more frequent charges.
People in flats will need fast chargers of which there is few onstreet are the ones we need.
The bulk of charging could be done while they are at work maybe? It's that mindset that you need to fill up quickly as that's what you do with an ICE car that takes a bit of adjustment. The more you can slow charge while you are away from it when not in use, that's the eye opener and coming back to a charged car.
I'm doing a trip from Manchester to Worthing and back to Manchester on Sunday. 550 miles, I could do that with one stop with my Model 3LR, but I'll probably stop twice, once each way.
I have a 14 year old Mac laptop that I still use because it has Ethernet ports, hdmi, video, sd, dvd etc… , now on its 2; 2nd battery and trackpad and an ssd drive.
I have a Kona 65kw 33500 miles in 17 months and only use public chargers 5 times as the range in the summer 320 miles and winter 280 to 295.
It always amazes me how many people think they need a car that will drive forever, when in truth they rarely drive further than the local supermarket. In my 10+ years of EV ownership I know that my current LEAF, with its 230 mile range, is good for the vast majority of my journeys, all fuelled from my home charger. My visits to Rapid chargers are so rare that I have forgotton the passwords for the few Apps on my phone. I have money in a chargepoint account that has not been used for 8 years (must ask for a refund).
Yesterdays trip out was 180 miles, for lunch. My friends and relatives all live within 100 miles, no away charging required.
For holidays away from home I require rapid chargers on main roads and for convenience 7Kwh chargers at hotels, etc.
The Government needs to focus on street chargers for those without driveways.
For reference my mileage this year is over 9000 miles so far, last year it was 22633 miles, all in a 'low range ' LEAF.
It's a valid point. Of course ICE cars ALWAYS need the petrol-station at some point, there's no concept of "Home Filling". We may reach "Peak Charging Station" sooner than we thought.
99% of my EV use is below 60 miles (100km) a day. 99% of my charging is therefore done via a 3 pin plug at around 3Kw (free from my Solar panels/Battery).
My next car (Kia E-Niro) will do a realistic 240 miles. That will be fine for the next few years. After, say, 4 years, I predict that 400 mile ranges will be fairly standard. I'll know by then whether to stick with the 240 mile Kia or twist for a more modern vehicle.
The rate of progress since the 2012 Nissan LEAF is quite extraordinary, and I don't see any signs of slowing down.
The charging factor - broken, waiting line, expensive - is putting some people off buying an EV right now. Probably waiting for better longer range batteries.
Much depends on how many people need to use older evs but still need to do a road trip. Not everyone can afford the newer higher range cars so there will still be demand but its hard to assess what demand will be - much depends on government legislation banning older ICE cars from the road forcing people into an ev?
As more people adopt EVs the opportunity to stick a few kWh in while you visit your friend or family will become more common place if that in combination with longer range cars will ease the demand on the go chargers, I don't think so. Battery technology takes a long time to change and in the next 10 years or so I think we will end up with cheap short range cars with LFP batteries with a range of normally 230 miles and longer range more expensive cars
When charging network expands expect to see cars with lower range that are a lot cheaper. No point having a big heavy battery if you barely use it, its inefficient.
We’ll need a better spread of chargers more than more chargers everywhere there’s still a few deserts of charge infrastructure
Cheers Dave
I agree totally, battery technology is moving at such a rapid pace that we willno longer need to stop to recharge. Certainly within the next decade you can see battery range doubling. There are already cars that have 400 miles range, 700-800 miles will be easily doable by 2035. That would mean I never need to charge away from home unless on a road trip throughout Europe. Of course if charging price came down dramatically to the level of home charging then who knows.
Dave. Do you have figures on how many people can charge at home. For those of us who can charge at home- life is easy but this is not the case for all.
Home charging is great, but it's unreasonable to assume that everyone will be starting each long trip with a full or mostly full battery. Some people don't have access to home charging. Sometimes, people intend to plug in overnight, but forget (humans are fallible). Or, maybe the driver plugged in, but the power went out, so the vehicle didn't actually charge.
Either way, a robust system needs to allow people in such situations to get where they're going with delay measured in minutes, not hours, and to accommodate such situations for trips from anywhere to anywhere, there is simply no alternative but for public fast chargers to be everywhere.
I can see the argument of increased vehicle ranges maybe reducing the need for huge capacity at some of the charging sites along travel corridors, but it definitely does not reduce the frequency that chargers need to exist. There is a reason why 400-mile-ranged ICE vehicles do not avoid the need for frequent gas stations.
Maybe the petrol car driver sets off and forgets to fill up, so runs out on the hard shoulder. Or maybe a neighbour sneaked over the fence and cut his charging cable. Or maybe the driver left his cabin heater on full all night and had a flat battery. I can play this stupid game all day.
On a long trip why on earth would you stop and not charge. Charge when you can, even if it's just a 5 or 10 minutes top up. On a trip to France we stopped at a hypermarket to do some shopping, we had 75% so I set it to charge to 100% did the shopping and got back and it was 98%. Never miss the opportunity to charge. In a Tesla a quick comfort break can get you 10%,
I agree that’s what I do, ( on longer journey) stopping for a toilet break no need to charge at that point but charge for 10mins or so (assuming no charger queue) means I don’t have to charge specifically later on.
I think if EVs end up as a significant % of all vehicles there will be millions of cars parked outside terraced properties with no home charge facility, so whilst the % of EV owners using en route charging will reduce the absolute number of users having to use the charging network is still likely to increase. Larger batteries and quicker charging times will be the key to drivers without off road parking deciding to purchase their first EV. So I think there will still be a need for a large charging network.
People who can’t charge at home are not going to get an EV , just let it go, you guys can enjoy your EV’s forget about the rest of us
Talking about an 8 year old car being old and out of date because it is EV plays into the hands of the anti-EV crowd who will tell you that the range on their 25 year old ICE car is the same as it was the day it rolled off the production line.
Bigger batteries giving real world longer range on one hand would reduce the need for public charging for people who charge at home but those who can't are still going to need regular access to public charging and these are the people who have yet to switch to EV in larger numbers. If bigger batteries bring with them a higher price it may not even be worth it financially for a lot of people who typically don't do high average daily mileage.
In places like the US and Australia it will probably be a different picture as their idea of a 'road trip' is still likely to exceed the battery range.
An 8 year old fossil car is just as out of date as an 8 year old EV, and will have cost about the same when servicing is taken into account.
@@barnseyfrommossley8 years is not old for an ICE car
@@Aaron-zh7qm I didn't say 'old', I said out of date. It's not old for an EV, either. An 8 year old car that attained a 5* NCAP safety rating when new would now be lucky to achieve a 2* rating now.
holiday makers will need chargers if they are touring around and there are no facilities to charge at their destination
just like ICE car drivers will need to find a garage to fill up???? They never have petrol pumps at their hotels!!!
You have not accounted for the fact that home charging and free hotel charging are generally no more than 7k.., the higher range cars are usually around 80kw and take around 12 hours to charge, or 24 hours on a granny plug…. Also most long journeys are business trips where people have no time to stop for 13 hours to charge, hence fast charging enroute is going to be needed going forward, even if no one ever fully charges there….
You need to find some new hotels. Or get out there and try it for yourself. The ones I stay at have 11kW chargers that give my old jalopy 35 miles per hour and has a range of around 240 miles. Easily enough to fully charge before breakfast even if I arrive totally empty. Business trips are the reason we have Rapid and ultra-rapid chargers. Only a numpty would plug into a fast charger over lunch and expect it to be full.
I think EV's are heading the way that Petrol and Diesel have where initially when the range of petrol and diesel cars were not far and were inefficient at consuming fuel we had a huge amount of petrol garages everywhere, over time these were slowly pulled back as those cars became more efficient at using fuel and went longer distances.
The same I think can be said for EV's, we'll have a surge in chargers whilst EV's catch up in the range department and once the scientists have cracked instant charging (charging in 3 minutes or less which is apparently being researched and developed successfully on smaller batteries) Charging your EV will be like going to a garage, you drive in, plug in, 3 minutes later you're fully charged and off you go.
I also personally don't think we need super long range batteries, the average petrol and diesel car can go roughly 400-500 miles on a tank, that's all we really need and the Polestar 2 can pretty much almost do that already so it's only a matter of time before other EV's hit that mark. Throw in more advanced and faster ways to charge car batteries and charging will be as fast and as common place as filling up a ICE car, then all we'll need to do is replace the current petrol pumps with EV chargers, no need for anything additional.
This is where I see the future of EV's as they become more commonplace and we slowly withdraw from using fossil fuels.
Will larger fuel tanks make Petrol and diesel redundant?
When all cars have a 300m real world range then the DCFC stations will need to be made available for commercial vehicles that don’t have the efficiency to manage a day’s travel on one battery fill.
Might not need the chargers when you live in a country the size of a postage stamp. Try that in Aus.
I suspect that there's a maximum range beyond which it'll be uneconomic. Clearly more than 200 miles but less than 5 hours driving (say 400 miles if motorways), because people do need a break.
EDIT: I seem to remember that my last diesel car had a nominal 500 mile range. That was definitely enough for my needs. Less charging stations than the current number of petrol stations would seem correct. But how many less? 50%?
I find it strange that Lamborghinis and Ferraris have tank sizes typically less than 80L and when driven normally get 10-15mpg. That's way less than 200 mile range but you don't hear them complaining.
@@davetakesiton Your comment prompted me to look at the "average" car's fuel capacity/economy/distance. Turns out it's not simple to get that data. But perhaps 60L of fuel with 6L per 100km efficiency so 1000km total or about 600 miles.
Given that petrol cars have to be filled up at petrol stations, then I assume that the needed range for electric ones is less than that (assuming daily overnight charging). So less than 600 miles maximum range. Given the rate of progress so far, it can only be a few years before we get there.
EDIT: I got rid of my old car (it was worn out and there are ULEZ charges for me in London). My first choice in car hire is always electric cars but they aren't always competitive. Getting close though.
Don't forget that smaller cars won't have that range for a long time yet and near enough most people will not be able to charge at home.
Hi Dave, First!
Welcome
Hi Dave two videos within the same hour and you got a hair cut inbetween 🤔 but yes have we reached peak charger ?
Miracle man 😆 I think we are past peak right now but sales are still growing so we will need more unless batteries really do improve soon and prices drop
Charge companies seem to be ignoring areas where there is actually a need. Specifically holiday destinations, ie. North Wales. The charging situation is very poor with hardly any chargers over 22kw and most of those are untethered pod chargers. I stayed in North Wales recently and the only Pod destination charger in a 15 miles raduis was broken for weeks. Probably still is. On holiday you are driving many miles to explore the area, and most likely can't charge where you stay. I've seen some hotels with a single destination charger but there's a good chance its not working or its ICEd. Investment is definitely needed, as regardless of range you are likely needing to charge holidaying in the UK.
Bear in mind that the cars that have been sold over the past few years and the cars being sold right now are not magically going to disappear. EVs look like being more durable than ICE cars, and cars with 200-mile range are still going to have to be catered for for a good while now.
The average life of a UK car is around 14 years, so no reason to believe EVs will last any less.
Came back after a few months gap. Still much the same, Dave. We get it … longer range means we don't need to charge en route so much. It could be said, with an example, in 1 minute. Repeating the same point over and over isn't engaging content.
Hello mate
Same on everyone's video.
Like a little tot, just learned a couple of words 😂
But if chargers were reasonably priced you would still charge.
Exactly the point, Andrew, I would happily charge on the road while having a coffee or lunch if the cost was roughly the same as at home or my destination.
Yes and No is the answer, smaller range battery is much lighter and cheaper and will satisfy a large number of users who only rarely do long trips, but they will still need a good charging network occasionally.
A 150 mile real range will suit many users if they can easily find a rapid top up occasionally.
I do 10000 miles per annum in a circa 300 mile range car and use public charging maybe 6 times/annum.
I saw a group on Facebook recently where EV owners started joining together to offer the use of their home chargers to people visiting their area. Have you heard of this? Seems like a good idea and a way to beat the overpriced charging networks.
i have another question at the moment with the cost of petrol or diesel how many families limit there private car use outside of the essential trips work shopping and so on to how much they can afford in these financial times lets be honest most families live to a tight budge, well if for instance there weekly fuel budget for petrol or diesel is currently £60 which equates to about 350 miles at 18p per mile which is an average of what i spend a mile as a driving instructor with a combination of city and rural driving i live in a small village,( and i know there will be people out there that say there car gets 60 or 70 mpg but i can only speak to my personal experience) will that person just do more driving therefore more miles for pleasure so that they still spend the same £60 which equates to approximately 2400miles at 7.5p per Kwh and 3 miles per Kwh which i know on average most electric cars will beat as you say just a thought and if electricity keeps going down in price then are the roads going to get busier?
By the way thanks dave i am planning on getting my first BEV later in the year and you have been a helpfull part of my investigation and in helping me make the decision.
Tony
Battery capacity = cost . For the vast majority of UK users the premium for a larger battery, and the mass increase affecting all of the structure and running gear increasing vehicle cost, will not be worth it.
Smaller , cheaper cars with optimised 200-250 mile batteries will be adequate and affordable. Most UK cars made to date are also 100-250 miles range. Both these groups will need ongoing Rapid battery charging.
US and Continental drivers will need more long range options.
Homes will need three phase supplies (fitted by Robert Llewellyn for example) as can be seen more often on the continent. Charging at 22KWh makes home charging viable. I do not see 7KWh chargers being enough. Many of the EVs around here are giant SUVs with an on paper efficiency of 2.2 miles per KWh or so, in reality it is less than 1.8. They have giant batteries that would need two nights of charging to fill. At the moment that gives them a 180 mile range. Even with better battery tech they will probably still be at around 100KWh in size and need a couple of days to charge at home without an upgrade. Public chargers are going to be needed for a long time.
A 7kW charger will charge even a 100kWh battery in 14 hours empty to full. Realistically you will never be at empty and unless going on a road trip will unlikely charge passed 90% So an overnight charge will still be enough. 22kW chargers would be nice but not worth the cost of upgrading.
Few people are going to need max range every day. I wouldn’t touch a car with an efficiency less than 3 miles/kWh. For most 7 kW is going to be ok.
7kWh is more than fine as hardly any EV's can take 22kW, most are 11kW. So the cost to go up to a 3 phase supply, plus a bit more for a charger is hardly worth the hassle. I did a pair of 200+ miles trips a day apart in a Polestar 2 and needed to add 60kWh (ish) after each trip and make sure I had over 80% charge before I took it back to Hertz. Yeah I had a day between to split the charge over a few nights (just for the cheap overnight tariff) but could have easily done those charges each night even if it meant a bit of charging outside that cheap window.
Unless you have 2-3 cars in a household all doing 200mi a day you can easily manage alternating which day you charge.
100kwh at 7kw is justt over 14 hours. That is overnight for many.
Yep, pick a millionaire living in the Cotswolds as an example of the average family.
Dave many 1000's of people are many years from being able to aford a 300 mile plus car, my current car does around 140 / 150 miles and so the likes of me which is far more the majority and will still use the charger network as we cant either aford a home charger or in my case my landlord wont allow me to have one.
May i ask why your channel is called ........... Takes it on. - I would be better called Daves life with a EV.
COME ON your more capable of better Interpretive journalism. PUT the "takes it on" into channel and ask, why counties like Yorkshire and so under provided for, Rishi Sunak's home town has NO chargers , Richmond (North Yorkshire) has no charger, the nearest being miles outside the town, so if your visiting its hard and there are, many towns like this.
There we go, I love for you to take it and sort areas that have little to no charging, because there are more people like me and increasing than like you, able to charge at home and use the Tesla network. Which once ive paid £75 for the "vehilce upgarde will be able to as well. Many thanks Wayne
Hi Wayne, I try to cover as much as I can, but yes, I am heading towards getting more hands on with EV charging. I feel it is going wrong.
The government have already decreased the 500,000 figure to 300,000 most of which are fast chargers not Rapid or Ultra Rapids.
I actually think you are wrong on the chargers needed, we need them on every lamp post. when we have 30 million ev cars on the road in the UK with 500k chargers the contention ratio is not bad. But, remember ev chargers just sit there nothing to do just get them in and make it frictionless for charging. You also have to take in last mile delivery from the likes of DPD and HGV mega chargers, caravan towing ev's will need more frequent charges. The charger market will find the correct level needed but, yeah 500k is probably just a good starting point
You could overnight in your Tesla outside your son's house, nice and cozy in camp mode.
Sadly, until the government forces garages to stop selling petrol and diesel, nothing will happen. The very first thing is for the government to bring in the appropriate regulations and one can only get electricity at fuel stations.
Even as an EV driver I don't want the government to force anyone to do anything. ICE should be an option to everyone. I chose my EV because it suits my needs but I also have a Fiat Ducato motorhome. I would love a long range EV motorhome 400 miles then I would swap that too. In the meantime we need both. Once EV's reach 400 or 600 miles charging anywhere other than home for those who can will be the primary way to charge.
@@michaeldawson6309 In the meantime you are happy to be killing generations of people as ye unborn. That is what using ICEs does.
Not sure if you will need a car
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