J. Krishnamurti & Iris Murdoch - Brockwood Park 1984 - Dialogue 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ธ.ค. 2016
- J. Krishnamurti & Iris Murdoch - Brockwood Park 1984 - Dialogue 1 - Where there is self-interest love is not
Summary:
Q: Can love be experienced?
Love is not desire or pleasure.
Love is not the opposite of hate.
Love has no relationship to jealousy.
Love can never bring conflict.
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Jiddu Krishnamurti is the greatest blessing for modern humanity, and must be taught at all schools world-wide ♥️💯
Wird nicht passieren, denn zu stark ist der Glaube, die Religion, das Dogma der Koran-Bibel Aberglaube weltweit, leider.
Desire is a force which motivates you to take what is outside and put it inside.
Love is a force which motivates you to give what is inside to the outside.
Briliant ❤
Beautifully put! ❤❤❤
“You don’t let a single thought slip by without knowing what it is”. Wow!
Your comment makes me want to watch it fully. Thanks for inspiring.
This is a very clear and precise female thinker trying to make sense of cryptic buddhist remarks, that evade sense by confusing any clear definitions.
Both brilliant minds.
"Is the thinker different from his thoughts?" - K's brilliance
I’m not sure; one could say that thoughts are caused by thinking and hence the thinker, the person doing the thinking, cannot be the same as the thoughts caused by thinking. If he means that a person is his consciousness, then I would say a person is not different from his thoughts, if thoughts are all that consciousness is. It’s certainly very interesting to think about.
“You yourself just made the distinction. Why?”
@@EVSmith-by9nowhen thought comes and goes still i exist so if iam the thought then i should have existed only the duration of the thought
love and blessings!
Two brilliant minds! Love Dame Iris Murdoch. Liked, shared and subscribed.
What! Two brilliant minds you say, I never in all my life came across a woman as thick as Iris Murdoch. K is banging his head off a wall here!
I must say that the simplicity of Jiddu's mind is well exposed in contrast to the complexity of Iris Murdoch's mind. She got lost in the example.
Watch without judging and condemnation. It's really hard
Great conversation.
The lady challenges his use of language which is really usefull thing to do because Krishnamurtis conceptualization of language is rather strange and voregin to most of us.
Very true, one of the only issues with JK.
No, not really. His language is not of the opinion that you should have acquired an understanding of life linguistically, that's all.
to try to make sense of k's ideas by the way of analytical inquiries into the meanings of words as they are used would, I think, be going about it in the wrong way. it seems to me that there is a kind of simplicity and fluidity in his use of words and expressions, and by extension to his thoughts that commands it's own logic
M's questioning is undoubtedly useful to draw out the meaning behind K's words but K repudiated any form of conceptualization.
So intressanting! K is really trying to make Iris come back to the basic and stick to one topic. Iris is intellectualising and analyzing consepts over concepts and K is talking about something way deeper than that.
No. Within her own philosophical tradition of Phenomenology, Murdock is saying that there is nothing beyond Experience. Her so-called 'intellectualizing', then, is an effort to explain the various facets of the concept as such.
Otoh, Krishna is saying that beyond experience we derive perspectives of Will; therefore all experiences may be reduced to Agencies. he then proceeds to inquire what lies beyond experience in terms of non-will/non-desire as a 'true' state.
But this is the genre of mysticism 9a non experienced-referential 'pure' state that we westerners see as hopeless mumbo-jumbo propagated by people withiut sanitation or clean water. hence the idiocy of 'deeper than that'...
He's way deeper than her. She can't take it. 🤷 She wouldn't let him finish And you can see he's troubled by her constant interupting. She can't go beyond.
He really got to talk to all the interesting people of that era.
Just like with Mr Bohm, one can feel the appreciation and the 'essences' and intelligences of both!
'Tis a Delight
Gold.
❤
Krishnamurti is trying to clarify the fact that, for Ms Murdoch, her judgements precedes experience.
{I}, {fear, envy and anger} are all THOUGHT, which cunningly separates the 1st from the rest. It also auto-suggests or puts ITSELF into the latter bracket to create the separatedness feeling of itself and related emotions from the its superficial 'I's ....or thinkers.
Murdoch doesn't let Krishnamurti fully express himself as not a natural dialogue here.
27:55
.
41:45 Very Important
Schade, dass man bis jetzt nicht alle Filme mit Jiddu Krishnamurti auf deutsch übersetzt hat. 🙏🙏🙏
🙏🙏🙏
I wonder what a world would look like if more of us understood this way of being?
This is the pathway to progress
His Problem is that He says to watch envy needs a great Deal of Attention but when you Look free, without thoughts and will etc. THIS IS ALLREADY LOVE. You need a great Deal of Love what means No self to what the self is doing. It is very confusing to say YOU need Attention because in that Moment YOU try to be attentive there is a me trying to be attentive. This looking is Not from the me, this is Part of Love to watch from another Point of View without Center in what is, with Care and interest about what is. It is without effort, only with Love in truth, when its for you more importand to See the truth about what really is then anything else
One who knows and one who thinks. A master meets a philosopher. One who is centred in his being and one who is centred in her thoughts. One who searches inside his being and one who searches in her (albeit sophisticated) mind. Both eloquent, but poetry or prose does not transform one's being. Yet still JKs discussions with thinkers and philosophers, illuminate his perspective in a different way than the direct discourses and responses to questions from seekers.
very well and aptly put!
It's painful to observe anyone, including myself, 'taking' the mind to be anything at all to do with the truth they are.
Frustrating to watch. The interviewer would not stop interrupting with more questions instead of letting him fully flesh out his answer.
Jiddu speaking to a self. :)
Muy acertado, asi es.
K was a freak. I love him, and he has taught us much, but I believe he was unique (not perfect), but unique and that it is hard to live consistently by the teachings he imparts (in my view and experience, anyway). But there are still some great truths here.
he touched the perfect, so why he is not the perfect ?, he cracked the whole illusion and people don't bother to listen him.
"The thought and the thing thought are the same." - Parmenides (paraphrased.)
What did Parmenides actually say? Un-paraphrased?
@@meghan42 "thought and being are the same"
Schade, leider nicht auf deutsch übersetzt.
From Darwinian perspective they are making it unnecessarily complex. Humans have layers of control mechanism on top of each other, reason is just the most recent and it is not always aligned with the lizard brain. Reason is slow, fluid and accurate, lizard brain is fast but rigid. Having both had evolutionary advantage.
Who or what is the "I" that experiences?
1 hour of talk and ending up with nothing but playfullness of words... Thats where the philosophy or hyper-intellect can go so wrong when you start without a concreat situational question. I think eradicating the question "Who Am I" will revolutionize Philosophy and will make beneficial going forward.
A very difficult conversation for Iris as he never establishes his own position. She keeps asking him to go on and make himself clearer. I don't think she would have tolerated many other people speaking this way. He is clearly talking about his ow metaphysical condition but won't specifically outline it.
This was painful to listen to as the lady kept tying herself up in complicated thought, and jk keeps gently prodding her to think. It is clear if one hasn't "experienced" these things, they will always tie themselves up in knots.
Iris or Irma?
not sure what the point of this conversation is
The love he's speaking about, the point of the conversation is to find that and be in eternal peace, she's trying to understand it from his point of view.
Apakah akar dari diri itu? Bagaimana dia tercipta? Apakah hanya sekadar ilusi buatan pikiran untuk tujuan survival
31:30
36:53
What part of unconditional love can't she understand... he nails it... she doesn't listen, too occupied with contradicting what he's saying.
She doesn't answer any direct questions but deviates to a totally different perspective so on the whole even if this conversation looks interesting; its not very productive.....
Sometimes i find K's focus on love almost obsessive. He obviously uses the word in a different sense but doesn't care to explain it
I wonder if Iris Murdoch had any foreboding of what was to happen to her brain 10 or so years later as her Alzheimers developed in the late 1990's.
It seems so poignant to me that her dedication to "the good" and to "selfless love" and her influence in moral philosophy should come to such an end; only in a universe where karma and cosmic justice is still believed to exist and worshiped and so on.
“a just and loving gaze directed upon an individual reality”
He only wants to help others live a more holistic life
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Did they dialogue successfully?
Very succesfull, full headache
The dialogue fails. She is incapable to make conversation with fluidity. It happens. It remind me some dialogues of plato in which the dialogue fails as well.
Because of her philosophical training, she needs to start the conversation full of pressupositions, which makes the dialogue difficult and hard. It is so much more interesting to being, as k. do, with common sense and everyday experience, and then begin to analyse to construct a knowledge together... Is a type of conversation that everyone could have and, I think, much more powerful and real.
She does not listen… her enormous education is in the way for observing what actually is. They didn’t even go into what is the process of desire. Lol
This lady is stuck in duality and it seems she is there to reinforce that as it is safe and what she knows.🙄
Hahaaa I didn't Mrs mudroch would look like confused human infront of the master.
Miss Murdoch talks too much and is quite obviously caught in her own sophisticated thoughts, concepts and ideas. Frustrating to watch because she takes something quite simple and spins it into something very complex and contradicting. Just too much talking, too many words….
JK is simple, clear and straight to the point.
It’s as if she is interviewing him to hear herself talk.
She is so external and interrupted him many times.
She is Iris Murdoch an Oxford trained philosopher and one of THE great writers of the 20th century having won the Booker prize. What does 'external' even mean in this context. At least look a word up before using it.
@@meio4744 You've clarified it well, my friend. From the very beginning, the conversation had begun quite differently. The only reason why each of the participants could have associated themselves with each other is that the thoughts of Krishnamurti are more of a westernized pattern of philosophy, with their differences. Read her books well, my friend. She had also made a number of mistakes while she wrote about Sartre.
@@arupghosh7993 Please don't call me your friend I don't even know you and your sentences are completely unintelligible.
@@meio4744 what do you even mean by the word 'unintelligible'?
@@arupghosh7993 I mean a frog may type words on a keyboard and it would make more sense.
Not really impressed with JK.
he doesn't want to impress you neither do you need to be impressed
Try loving this old bat! 🤣
❤
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