Civic Type R vs. Toyota GR Corolla | Track Review With Data
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- How does the Honda Civic Type R do on track? We, we wondered that, too, so we took one to our official test track, the Florida International Rally & Motorsport Park, aka The FIRM, and found out. We compare the on-track data for the Civic Type R with the data from the Toyota GR Corolla. Which one’s faster? Find out in the in-depth video.
#HondaCivic #TypeR #tracktest #GrassrootsMotorsports
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This video is brought to you by:
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Hosted by: J.G. Pasterjak, Production Manager and Test Driver
Video by: Chris Tropea, Associate Editor
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#GrassrootsMotorsports #sportscars #GRM - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
This is a good chance to remind everyone that our car tests can be done months apart, with large temperature swings and differences in track cleanliness or rubber due to periodic rain or maintenance.
So we like to say that the actual lap times are an interesting discussion point, but the discussion doesn't stop there. The data charts are a much more interesting example of how each car is performing. The Civic's lap time is bolstered by a couple corner exits that really suit its power curve, and it uses those to pull out ahead of the GRC initially. The Civic is also better at mid-corner speed in most cases, which makes sense for a car with a longer wheelbase and a lower center of gravity. But the GRC also has some good looking spots on that curve, and on the right day, in the right conditions, might even challenge the CTR even closer.
It's fun to see all the passion for both the Civic R and the GRC, but instead of arguing over what's "better" let's just sit back ad appreciate that we live in a world where there's sporty, track capable small sedans/hatchbacks available from multiple manufacturers. The segment hasn't been this vibrant since the early '90s. Now if we could just get dealer markups under control a little bit...
Agree! Well said!
.94 secs slower on crappier and narrow tires
Not to shabby for the Baby GR car
Corolla isn't the "Baby GR car"
For everyone disputing the "compactness" of the Civic, here is your moment of vindication. We were wrong. The EPA now classifies the Honda Civic as a "midsize." So it's no longer a "compact" like the BMW M3 Sedan, the 2023 Mercedes-Benz AMG GT 63 S 4matic Plus or the Acura TLX. Nor is it a "subcompact" like the BMW M8 Competition Coupe, the 2023 Bentley Continental GT Speed or the Nissan GT-R. It's also definitely not a "mini compact" like the 2023 Bentley Continental GT Convertible Speed or the 2023 Aston Martin DB11 V8.
EPA size categories are even wackier than they used to be. Check out the list if you want a chuckle: www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/byepaclassnf.shtml
Lmao jesus, you were not kidding. 2024 Bentley Continental GT 12 cyl, 6.0 L, Automatic (AM-S8) that gets 15 combined city/highway is classed as 2024 Subcompact. What the flying F is the point of EPA if this is what is considered "Subcompact"?
@@tekkaboy80 Right?!?!? I mean, I figured there would be some weird class breakers in there, but I still thought I'd be able to discern their methodology just by seeing what was in each category. Maybe the only metric I can come up with that might fit in this structure is actual space devoted solely to each passenger. Like, storage independent, hoe much room do yo hav in and around each seat for your personal bubble.
Honestly I'm afraid to actually look it up because whatever the truth is will likely be more insane and frustrating that the actual list.
Okay, I had to look it up. It's all completely based on pure interior volume. It's how a Nissan GT-r and a Toyota GR Corolla end up in the same category. Gonna go on record and maybe say it's a dumb classification system.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports Sometimes I wonder how for the love of God we made it this far as a human race. 🤦
Thanks for looking it up.
The secret to how the FL5 corners so well is due to good wide tyres , sharp turn-in with rear brake vectoring to allow it to rotate and hold a line with throttle modulation.
You will go through 2 sets of rear brake pads before your first front set is up.
Great Review! Recently picked up a 24 Type R and I absolutely love everything about it !
Lap time at 4:19
I'm happy to live in this age of hot hatches. I'm embarrassed people are STILL paying over MSRP, but it's not my money. *gecko voice* -I saved over $15k by switching to Elantra N, and it's an amazing car, and the 1.4 second difference doesnt make a difference to me, because I'd rather stand behind my own lap times, then bench race at a C&C.
I acknowledge the CTR as an amazing automobile, very happy this segment exists.
Thanks for putting out reliable and relatable content GRM.
Average hyundai driver. Just have to tell everyone about their huyndai even when nobody asks.
I don’t think a 2024 Elantra N is that good a deal at 35k compared to a GRC at 37k. Makes sense if you want an automatic though, probably why 75% of the Elantra Ns sold are DCT.
@jabito17 I agree DCT EN vs Core GRC not that great of a gap. But can you get them for MSRP now? When I was shopping it was all three packages (looks like there's only 1 now), and dealers wanted $5-10k ADM.
Outside of this segment MTs are dying across North America, seems like most people are buying these cars as their first MTs. I've only heard great things about Hyundais wet DCT, but I wanted an MT even though it took longer to find one
@@jabito17the Elantra is a much better driver's car and only a brand snob would argue otherwise. GRC is underwhelming, EN is much more enjoyable.
@@qb4ever3klmao sounds like you are a hater
Very cool and in-depth analysis. Like others have said, match tires in both size and specs and it would be much closer of a battle. The best part is that in 2024 we have these amazing cars to choose from; both with incredible merits.
Then it would be modified they’re comparing them stock vs stock
Put the 265 pilot sport s tires on the FK8 and do the data again about how much 4 wheels are gripping
Surprisingly the GR Yaris is at the forefront in Japan.
Please review MSS spring kits.
The tires on the Type R are superior. They are 4S stock. GRC is OEM Pilot 4. Also a lot wider but that is harder to match.
The GRC cant do hot lapping without overheating the diff
I wish you people would do more research and stop saying that shit. It does NOT overheat on the 24s. It's because a sensor is right next to the exhaust. They moved it. Research it and get over yourself 😊
Here's how I look at it, Honda put heart and soul into the FL5; that chassis and suspension alone went through 2 iterations of development. Where GRC is basically a GRY drive train dropped into a hatchback corolla body...
yeah, Toyota can claim that they had also done development on the GRC. But at the end of the day, GRC still has the flaws of an economy car. Such as bad camber curves, bad anti geometries, bad center of gravity, heavy chassis, and too long of a wheel base.
FL5's suspensuon geometries are far superior to GRC. There's no way around it.
Interesting, stock FK8 ran 1:16.33 and the FL5 1:16:99 (same driver Dk at Sodegaura)
What time did fk8 run here?
The last FK8 we tested ran a 1:21.79, although the tires Honda was speccing at the time were not as good as the current OEM rubber. Here's a complete rundown of our track test leaderboard: grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/firm-lap-times/
@@Grassrootsmotorsports Thanks!
My budget does not allow me to ponder $45k for my hobby/passion car. The BRZ is probably slower than both of these or the Golf R. Budget aside, I’d probably look hard at the Golf R or Elantra N. Hyundai’s car theft issues have tainted my view of them a bit, so for a daily car I could track it would be a Golf R.
Golf R weighs 200lbs more than a GRC despite being physically smaller and will be DSG only moving forward. Toyota also produces 70% more GRCs for America. It also costs 20% more.
Elantra N at 35k is really not that good a deal compared to a 37k GRC. You’re giving up two driven wheels with identical curb weights to buy from a company that reacted to news its $40k+ cars were being stolen by adolescents with USB drives because they cheaped out on an immobilizers by offering to give people an external steering wheel lock, aka THE CLUB.
BRZ is faster on track.
If you drop 5k onto the BRZ, it will be faster than both of these cars. At the end of the day, it will still be cheaper than both of these cars.
@@VinRZdon’t make the brz faster before you deal w the oil starvation issue
@@leospaceman2976 delt with an accusump.
How about Elantra N?
We're huge fans of the Hyundai N cars. The value/capability ratio is among the best of any of the sporty small cars right now. Here's our track review: th-cam.com/video/qgOmfstH2eQ/w-d-xo.html
I may have missed it - which track?
We test our cars at the Florida International Rally and Motorsports Park.
Weird, you mean wider stickier compound tires with a stiffer sidewall will grip better??? Let's get them both on equal compounds, at least. 265 vs 235 is likely worth 1sec on its own.
Then Toyota should have put them on their car in the first place 265 is the stock tire width on the Civic
@mikerr8462 yes, because I didn't reference that already. Apples to apples tire wise would tell a better story at which is better at actually going around a circuit. Enjoy not knowing lol also compound isn't the same.
@@fred062000They are comparing two STOCK cars - as they come from the factory. When you start changing tire sizes and compound you could also start comparing cars with a reprog and coilovers. Thats not the point of a car comparison.
@mikerr8462 once again. I'm not suggesting changes to the car like adjustable suspension for the GR. I'm Suggesting a controlled test with controlled tire to better display each cars true weakness and strengths. Plus it should have been done on the same day to eliminate that variable as well. Several other reviewers of cars get the cars on the same compound.
Everyone knows the FK8 is the faster car. But see an FL5 in person, better yet drive one and it will all make sense. It is a splendid machine no doubt.
I would have liked more discussion as to the speed/grip differences. Traditional logic would say that the AWD vehicle would have had better cornering and certainly better exit speed? That said, the cars were probably not on the same tires, they were tested on different days. I also recall a Throttle House video that showed that the previous gen Civic Type R was actually quicker. I guess ultimately, when you are talking a second here or there, there are just so many variables that could influence the results.
Why would an AWD vehicle have better cornering than a FWD? As AWD has some of the benefits of power being delivered to either end but ALL the downsides. Understeer at turn in because the rear wheels literally push the front offline because they travel a shorter distance in any turn until the computer kicks in and disconnects the rear. More weight as a given. And because the GrC is a FWD derived system you again rely on computers to distribute power rearward after it detects the front wheels slipping trying to deliver power on corner exit. Meanwhile FWD can be turned for instant turn in (no snap oversteer of RWD) and off power rotation through weight transfer off the rear axle and a 250+lb weight advantage if all else being equal. You're really relying on differentials and computers for AWD systems to get track cornering while FWD and RWD aren't quite as hampered because the front and rear axle speeds don't need to be related. On a loose surface though? All that changes since every system is scrambling for grip all the time.
As for the Throttle House the only place they determined the old R was faster is in 3rd gear pulls likely due to the final drive change. On the track the new R was significantly faster due to the tires and small other refinements even though the wheelbase lengthened, extra weight and the final drive change.
@@Vermonstered truth.
The AWD system in the GRC is really good. It's not full torque vectoring, but the computer does an amazing job of reducing oversteer and understeer. I've had mine for two weeks and I've pushed it pretty hard after break in. I have yet to feel either. The biggest difference is the GRC has a more standard performance summer tires, while the CTR has a little bit stickier sport tires. Also while maybe not a huge deal going 15-20 MPH around a corner, but even with the stickier tires the CTR has a harder time handling all that power through two wheels. The GRC beats the Type R from a dig because of the AWD (in a drag race).@@Vermonstered
@@MrBetaKiller100 Congrats on the new car. But you're looking at it through rose colored glasses. There's a significant amount of differences between the GRC and the CTR and it's not really about the tire compound. Higher CG, AWD behavior, wheel base, track, suspension differences, dampening philosophies, play a much bigger role in the personality of the car than the difference between the pilot sport 4 and 4s. The GRC is measurably taller and smaller car than the CTR. As for putting power down, did you watch the video? The acceleration charts are right there to see, no one cares much about the specific dig times as a true manual. Golf R DSG smokes both the cars with launch control and no interruption of boost between shifts, doesn't make it a better track car.
@@Vermonstered I could’ve sworn I saw a video showing that on the same tires the GRC on same tires handled leaving corners way better, I could be wrong because I also thought the CTR had sport cup 2s. That might’ve been in the video I watched , and it was just what they had on their CTR. GRC is planted as is and I’m not upset at all, the margin between the two is so small anyway. Can’t go wrong with either, and it’s way closer between the two then all the comments on this video make it seem.
Edit: As an aside it’s worth noting the CTR makes 30-35 more wheel horse power due to the AWD drivetrain loss in the GRC. (And GRC makes way less torque with a 3 cyl) if you tuned them up to be closer I think they would be a fraction of a second apart, either way.
for me its like you said the civic is no longer a compact car its deffinitly a sedan. the honda civic is no longer what it was and is now a completely different car.
Did you call the 11th gen Civic a compact car? How amurka of you.
I wouldn’t call this a midsized car
Toyota had the perfect opportunity to make the GRC great by just doing a few more things to make it better on the interior, but just like Toyota always does, they stuck to making it cheap, boring, but still expensive. People loved the GRC at first, but that wore off very quickly when they realized every other car in its class and price range was so much better to live with.
The part I hate the most is that it overheats after 15 minutes of track driving
There are cooling solutions for the itcc for track use. Not the best but it's a new platform.
Boring? It's more fun than the type r based on a lot of reviews
@@SuperSmoovy none of those solutions have been proven yet. Even if it's a new platform, there shouldn't be an excuse for that.
@@lilripsta911 it's crazy how the civic oversteers more than the awd Corolla that's plagued with understeer even in 30/70 mode.
TYPE R = FWD KING
Like rocking a junior varsity jacket
@@jabito17never had the makings of a varsity athlete.
@@Reptilianoverlord-jc8mt purchasing a new 50k fwd car for the track is not something that appeals to many people. Probably why they dropped to selling at MSRPish at the same rate as the GRC despite making about 70% fewer. They purposely dropped production when the GRC came out because they know less people want one.
I have both cars. The Type R is faster. Without question, especially from a roll. I would argue it also has a better engine. The only advantage of the GR is the awd.
Type r feels more special, but the grc is more raw. Forget that fake engine noise
@@SuperSmoovy The GR is not more raw. Please get your facts straight. The Type R doesn't have heat warmers, no electric seat, no sunroof, straight cut racing buckets, harder brake pedal. I would like to know what exactly you feel is rawer on the GRC? Or are you just saying that without any actual information?
@@juanfernandez8987 I own a GR and I'm coming from an FK8. Do you fanboy or do you actually own one? The CTR is more refined. It rides smoother, great dampening, really upscale interior, isolated better from the road noise etc. So yes, the GRC feels like it is more raw. No pumped engine sound from speakers etc. E-brake anybody? ..... Why am I talking to you fanboys 😂. STOP!!
@@SuperSmoovy yes, I do own both. The ebrake is the only item electronic, but then again the GRC has heated seats. Don't confuse quality and sophistication with less rawness.
@@SuperSmoovyCan anyone tell this clown that you can turn off the fake sound if you want. It just take a couple menus. Now you can stop crying and listen to the engine real sound.
Im not sure if we can call the 10th & 11th Gen Civic Type-R as compact cars anymore...I mean they are litterary about the same size as the Accord. 😅
Fk8 not so much, fl5 more so, it's longer than fk8 by quite a bit
@@g0d182 no not really it’s 2 inches longer
Wow, look how much better this car did than the Elantra N. Oh, wait I don't see the Elantra N here. Am I missing something or are we missing something? I see the comparisons with GR Carolla. Is the GR Carolla a 3-cylinder car? Yeah, I'm not competing against 3 cylinder cars.
Yeah we're superfans of the Hyundai N lineup. The Elantra N is arguably a better performance value than pretty much anything else in the class at the moment. Here's our review: th-cam.com/video/qgOmfstH2eQ/w-d-xo.html
Hyundai is junk😂
They're both front wheel drive after 10 minutes of hard driving. The overheating issue in the Corolla makes it unreliable at the track.
😂True building a race car cannot accommodate heat is a shame 😂
RS3 is faster
no shit its on a whole other level than these cars.
GRC is no where near CTR's level, performance, looks inside and out. The only advantage it has is at red lights and snow.
It’s superior in most tight autocross course
No where near the performance? Wrong, check out SavageGeese's 5 way shootout where the GRC and Type R were on the same exact tire driven by a Pro Racing driver, they were within .08 seconds of each other around Autobahn Country Club.
I thought that initially too, Until I got a chance to beat up a grc up over a weekend. It’s not just snow, it’s better in the real world altogether……RAIN (best car I’ve ever driven in a downpour), broken pavement, snow etc etc. needing to have ideal to get the most out of the type R just sucks. Civic may be the better track car, but as a street/rally set up….its hands down one of the most fun cars I’ve driven. And I’ve driven a lot, just as a point of reference…..my current two car solution is an R8 and a braptor.
h8tr
Fwd is only for fan boys
I don't understand why you are testing two completely different class of cars, you cannot do a comparison test as the honda is just a hot saloon car and the Toyota is a rally based car, ultimately the Toyota is far better as an all rounder because of it's four wheel drive system but the honda is a little bit more practical. Please test cars that are in the same category otherwise there is no point
As an owner of both, your comment is funny. The Type R is not "just" a hot saloon. It is as close to a GT3RS as any. In fact, a lot of reviewers compare it to it. Test drive one before commenting again so people don't confuse ignorance lack of informstion.
Having driven both, I think the simplest statement I can make is: I’m not paying 50k for wheelhop.
@@jabito17 Actually, its 45k. And it's not a Mustang or a drag car.
@juanfernandez8987 No one compares a hype R to a GT3RS. Let's be real, the hype R is really great for a FWD, 4 door, 4 cyl. Econo-box car that's all.
@@CTF33 So a factory wide body, Brembo braked, built in Japan, racing seats car with a 4 cylinder big turbo engine with VTEC capable of reliable 400whp, and built by a company that consistently wins the Formula 1 world championships is an econobox piece of overhyped crap? Boy you sure are sounding like a Mustang fan boy dude. Go check if those overhyped slushboxes depreciate.
these comments are hilarious, bunch of hurt GR corolla arm chair experts arguing about tires.... it doesnt matter, none of you will ever stand on a podium in either car... so just enjoy driving it to the grocery store and explaining to your significant other (if you have one) how technologically advanced the 3 cyl motor and awd settings are... its a corolla, and a civic.... /facepalm
Right?? Winnings winning!
But people put the same tires on them and they performed about the same? You sound so pissed off with that comment lol who hurt you? At least I'm driving to the grocery store with a smile on my face hitting boost with my GRC.
Also calling both of them just a Corolla and a Civic is a disservice to both.. They're only a Corolla and a Civic to people who do not know. I think that's part of the fun. Most people driving by me on the highway don't know it's "special".
I have both and here in PA the GRC is superior in driving and can handle anything weather wise. I drove my Type R in a downpour on Friday and almost lost it a couple times on some big puddles
@@UnstoppableMileage haha I live in Michigan but I had to go to PA to pick mine up! Apparently mine was in the Pittsburg auto show a couple weeks ago.
Doesn't matter if anyone here is going to podium with either car. As car enthusiasts, we love to talk about the capability of different cars and which one is superior to others. Believe it or not, some of us actually take our cars to the track.