@@Cosmicmorales agree tom is brilliant but matt isn't any less, whenever he comes he does make the show intense. ngl people say tom is better because of how many characters he can act
When Barry said “you will lose everything”- it was two fold Thawne loses in 2000, by getting cut off from the speedforce and stranded there, where he became Dr.Wells Also, “you will lose everything” could be a refrence to how he loses to Barry in 2023 after being used by the negative speed force
Exactly. He knows he can't end barry without ending himself. With no barry, Thawne never finds out about speedsters and how to become one, and thus never becomes one.
This was a pretty great scene. You can really see how Barry changes his tone after realizing that this is the original Thawne that went back in time to kill him as a child. Barry knows exactly what’s about to happen and seems almost sad about it. Thawne is sitting there thinking it’s because he finally beat the Flash, when its actually quite the reverse.
I don't get it. How come it's the original Thawne from 2024 Because he acts like he knows this current Barry (wife and child reference). Also, didn't Thawne just arrive at night right from the future? Why is he here hours ago?
The Flash has over 180 episodes and Matt's Thawne has only been in 8 of them. Even worse he was basically giving 'villain of the week' status only being the main threat in 3 of the 8 episodes he was in. It's such a shame we couldn't get more of him. Matt and Grant have really good chemistry.
That is true, he wasn’t in flash very much but he always made a big impact every time he was in it. We did get an entire season with him as the main villain in legends of tomorrow though.
@@OneGaurdian Making him antagonist of a season or story would've wasted that chemistry. Bringing him in brought our radars on point like this scene and we knew something serious for the characters was going definitely going down.
I feel like for the time line it makes more sense for Matt to play thawne in this episode because at this point thawne hasn’t stolen well’s identity yet
Except he isn’t. Barry has full knowledge of how this ends. Thawne is convinced he’s there to stop him; when in reality he’s already at peace with this canon event. Thawne will ultimately lose. He can have this battle.
0:40 This is when Barry realizes...this isn't the most recent Eobard Thawne. It's the pre-S1 Eobard Thawne that doesn't even know how his plan to kill younger Barry fails.
This is Eobard from the timeline Wells and Tess were alive! The timeline where Barry had his parents and a daughter called Dawn and had a perfect life, he should've killed him.
@NeonKue actually no as tharwn said killing him is the only thing that he could do that wouldn't mess everything up. It's strange but I'm assuming that killing him is like the cosmic joke here It's the one thing that would put everything back to the original time line but it's also the one thing Barry wouldn't do
@@TheGreatWhiteCount He would also have son named Don. The original timeline (as teased by S1 Wells-Thawne in Season 5 when Barry and Nora went to see him to fix the device) is one where Barry and Iris had twins, Don and Dawn, the Tornado Twins. Hence why Thawne was surprised when Nora said her name, and was like "That's nice......at least you get to keep one of them"
Bruh see this is why Matt should have been Thawne after season 1 he just oozes menace and ego naturally just from these interactions. Notice how after season 6 Barry stopped letting Cavanagh’s Thawne get under his skin even after creating a Reverse Flashpoint Barry still managed to remain calm in their interactions but Matt’s Thawne? Boy this man just knows how to push his buttons without even trying
Wellosbard is a very emotional version of Thawne. Heck he may not even be human anymore given what he's done to his body and how he existed after being removed from the timeline. Barry for the most part isn't as familiar with this version of Thawne. Due to all the Well's he's met. He's forgiven the face.
@@magmaticgames Perfectly put. They played two different characters and Barry had to treat them differently. That is something the later seasons' writers forgot.
@@PumipimababababaA fact acknowledged by Eobard Thawne himself. Or rather, his comic's counterpart...since he needs Barry to become Flash in order for him to become Reverse-Flash.
It's not even playing Barry already knows what he has to do. And he's being genuine when he tells Thawne that he wants him to walk away and get on with his life. Barry has grown to such level of compassion that he even wants to help the man who will ruin his childhood just because he could
if matt and tom switched turns every other episode after season one or so, it would've made things super interesting because each time barry would be confornted with two different versions that only wish to torture him. Would be even cooler if each season or so they'd teamed up to mess barry up.
nah cuz the blonde thawne is the one from before he goes back in time to kill him as a child. The "wells" thawne is from after, some point between when he took over wells body and before eddy killed himself
@@notj7506 I was referring more to if they had written a completely different story/script than they did for seasons 2-9. The story would be totally different so yeah it definitely wouldn't be possible with story we got.
@@troyheliodore It's never actually stated that Barry's parents were alive in the future. We just assumed they were. What Thawne said is probably true, Nora's death is a fixed point in time. We see that when that fixed point is prevented; Barry doesn't even become The Flash.
@@j0doe1the entire show is ran on an alternate timeline which thawne created by killing Nora which makes it a fixed point. The original timeline his mom lived and Barry still became flash but in 2020 not 2014. Reverse flash ends up coming to fight Barry around 2023 and in 2024 he finds out who the flash is and realizes he can time travel back to when Barry was a kid and kill him. That’s why at the end of season 1 we see multiple flashes in the house that night one of them is Barry who caused flashpoint and keeps himself from saving his mom. Thawne whole plan that night was to kill Barry not Nora he only killed her because original Timeline Barry who we never met saved himself
THIS SCENE IS SO GREAT!!! Every single moment if you think from Barry's pov you realize how he is coming to accept everything that is about to happen. He understands his role in this time, he sees Eobard's role and realizes how he is going to terribly fail AND how everything is going to start from this point. Grant's acting, Matt's acting and this scene are just 🤌🤌🤌
"You win. I can't stop you." I'm sorry, but I don't even think Wellsobard went that far to Barry in their rivalry. Just Thawne forcing Barry to admit he can't beat him... WOW
Matt's thawne is way better than wellsobard. He should have been playing the character all the time instead of thawne. It would have made more sense and obviously would be just better in general.
The thing is... While, true, Barry cannot stop him. But it's not because he "can't" stop Eobard, he can. The real thing is Barry knew what was going to happen. What needed to happen. This moment of him admitting that Eobard has won is Barry finally accepting Reverse Flash actions (killing his mom) in making Barry who he really is.
Both RF from Tom and Matt are great . Tom played the conflicted RF that both hates and loves the Flash family extremely great. He is someone that is mature , calculating and rarely makes mistakes or slip ups due to his experience. He constantly outplayed Team Flash in his 4D chess play. Matt on the other hand depicted the ruthless , psychotic, impulsive and immature side of a younger RF extremely well. It's CW that made the mistake of using Tom's RF in story parts where Matt's RF would have fit better. They should adapted the script so that it fits Tom's RF more. For example Tom's RF fit the whole Nora arc well because they needed some sort of father figure / mentor for Nora which I can't see Matt play. On the other end however last seasons Eobard and Crisis on Earth X's Eobard would have worked better with Matt's RF because he is more psychotic , ruthless and has the flaw to overestimate himself due to his youth. There is a key difference between both RF. Tom's RF has a psychological hold over Barry because he was one of his father figures and mentor. He made him what he is. His betrayal cut very deep into Barry which gives Tom's RF a position of superiority in their encounters. With Matt's RF the roles are reversed. Matt's RF feels inferior to Barry. Barry is everything he has ever dreamed of being which is why he is much more suceptible to anger and rage which results in constant failure. Barry is here the one with the psychological advantage.
that’s why i prefer matt’s tbh, it feels much more like he believes his pettiness is actually justified, tom’s eobard should’ve just wanted to go home, his demeanour didn’t fit his later actions at all, he was always calculated but now he’s spent 17 years undercover, the fact that he’s more bombastic later on than matt’s eobard just doesn’t make sense for his character, i do think tom was right for the nora storyline though
@@doodoo5594 Exactly! Couldn't have said it better. Old RF was tired from his own tantrums and has seemingly matured. In the end of S1 he no longer cared about their rivalry. He was willing to create his rival just to get home. Him trying to join Nazis in world conquest when he could have gone home makes no sense
@@tobsonasanya4765 i never said they weren’t the same character, in fact my whole point is that they’re meant to be the same character, but they don’t feel like it in the later seasons
I don't think Thawne realizes that this isn't the same Barry he has a history with. Because there's so much more backstory implied here that we've never seen
For OG-Thawne he's only had a few conflicts with Barry by this point, the distant future when a time travelled Flash "ruined" his life by stopping a catastrophe he wanted to, 2x10-2x11 when Eobard comes back to early 2016 when he still doesn't know his identity to meet Team Flash, and the original 2024 Crisis he seems bound to before going back to the past for this day.
Thawne probably interpreted it as Barry walking towards his funeral. Hence, that face at the end. I kind of get a sense of respect that he felt for Barry. Choosing to walk towards his end? He recognized strength and probably that fed further into his jealousy. He recognized courage. And yet....
Thawne is such a petty little man and I love it. The tension between these two was so awesome to watch This is one of the greatest episodes of the series by far
@@judgedredd2039yep, if only he had listened to Barry and left, unfortunately Nora’s death is a fixed point, however Thawne got what he deserved being trapped and and without his speed
This scene was meticulous crafted, probably the best scene of the season. It’s like they put all their effort into one scene and take bathroom breaks through the rest
And having Barry, someone who has the same potential to get equally drunk with power, refusing to drink. It's probably not intentional by the writers, but it's still a cool metaphor none the less.
This was the day Thawn created a hell of his own making. Stuck in a long endless cycle while every other Barry is finding ways to move forward. No matter how many times Thawn says he wins he still loses. Thanks to anyone who reads this.
Bizarro: Im you. only but Bizarre. Reverse Flash: Im you. only but reverse. Bizarro is the clone of Clark Kent/Kal El. He has bad grammar or speech. Reverse Flash could have been Barry allen's clone. His name is Allen Barrick, named after Barry and Garrick, not some time traveler named Eobard Thawne. Savitar is actually a clone of Barry allen.
The way they portrayed this is amazing actually because usually Thawn is the smarter of the two being from the future he usually knows everything that has and will happen but what makes this episode so special is that this is but Barry's last time meeting thawn while also being time he meets the youngest thawn possible.. meaning this thawn is young and dumb. Barry's warms him and instead of taking the word of the guy who not only doesn't really lie but is from the future so he would know. The last time this Thawn saw Barry was the oldest possible Barry. It's the 'The Time Traveler's Wife', (good show) in this shooter man who lives traveling accidently back in forth through time as he gets older always meeting the love of his life at different ages. There's a point in their lives where the oldest version of himself is sent back to the time where his wife was her youngest self, a little girl. Barry is now that old man and Thawn is that little girl
the youngest is not this guy , this one is after thawn came in season 2 even harry says it that this is where he learns who the flash is and who harrision wells is , also this barry is younger than his becasue all of the events happen sooner than they were supposed to his barry was mid 30s our barry i early 30s
What's even scarier is that this Reverse-Flash didn't do anything yet disguised as Harrison Wells, and yet, he knows what he had done to Barry so...I'm now sure he knows EVERYTHING just like his comics counterpart (he remembered EVERY deaths, EVERY changes).
@@nemoisblueIndeed...And yet, that's how he pulled EVERY conflicts in the comics, including the Flash Wars. He even went as far as making Hunter Zolomon becoming Zoom and August Heart becoming Godspeed. That's how scary Eobard Thawne can be...
@@redtech4798 That was his very first encounter with Flash, but he didn't know his identity back then. That's only when he returned to his time and fought a future version of Barry that he continued to dig some research about who the Flash is and he found out eventually.
@@byonemesis no lmao he was a flash fanboy he was obsessed with him, he did all the research he could but as we learn from s5 the flash museum is wrong and incorrect abt many things. Its obvious bc if u look at flashpoint he says that they have to correct time by killing barry's mom, that only makes sense if killing barry's mom is a fixed point like we're told. If the og timeline was ever true it was retconned by s2, and i don't think it was bc the newspaper is from this timeline not another one, as it changes when THIS BARRY loses powers.
0:37 Barry: "Interesting.... you are THAT Thawne" It will always be funny how THIS Thawne (Matt Letscher's version), was the one who was said to have fought Barry many times before (from Thawne's perspective), before earning barry's identity and acting his plan of "trying to kill barry as a child" (that would leave him stuck in the past and set into the path of becoming tom cavanagh's reverse flash) but we never actually saw that. Only in S2 EP 11, where we saw Thawne meeting Barry for the first time (from his perspective). Which is such a shame. Matt's Reverse flash was more an enemy of the legends than barry. It would have been interesting having matt's reverse flash be a co-villain of a season, him orchestrating attacks from the shadows (as him being objectively slower than barry, would force him to rely on cunning to defeat him), until finally learning barry's secret identity. ending the season with him declaring he will go back in time to kill barry as a kid (thus seeing almost all of the events leading to the series premiere)
I think they definitely underused Matts thawne but Toms thawne was just as good. Especially in season 1. It’s just a shame we didn’t get to see more of Matt
Tom's Reverse Flash stopped being interesting after S1, after that he's the most generic ass dude with the "I'm gonna kill you and your friends mentality" Except maybe for Armageddon but even that was stupid af
Pretty great acting, Barry is so mature and tired at this point, he has given up and accepted that eobard is a tormented soul that cannot be saved. He gave his last shot and yet eobard is just too deranged.
Man, Matt Letscher makes this show so much better. I havent even watched in years but will still click on some of his scenes when they pop up. Wish they would've used him more, he brings out the best of the show. Legends season 2 was also the only really solid season, because once again, Matt Letscher
What I noticed here is when Barry speaks to Thawne about not killing him as a child earlier he says at the 2:00 minute mark why he says why couldn't Thawne just wiped him off the face of the Earth. I just thought it was a nice callback to season 1's finale where in that episode Thawne's locked up in the pipeline and tells Barry why he killed his mother that night and he says similar words to what season 9 Barry had just said to Thawne in the year 2000. Honestly, this episode wasn't just the best episode of the season but the episode of all time. Really liked how everything came full circle and we saw the events of the night from Season 9's Barry POV. I know there are theories of him being the Original timeline flash but to be fair in my opinion this is just the post-crisis version of the March 18, 2000 fight.
Now THIS Thawne. This Thawne actually scares me. He’s way more arrogant and brutal compared to HR Thawne. He faces the heroes head on and dares them to try something. This is no coward
Yeah, but it's different here. Instead he was just spending the entire day in this exact day before he decides to kill young Barry, whereas in season 1 both him and the og flash came out of a time portal moments before young Barry is tucked in by his parents.
As much as I love the chemistry between Grant and Tom Cavanagh’s rendition of Thawne, I love the interactions between Grant and Matt Letscher even more. If for no other reason than their confrontations were rarer throughout the show’s run. Matt was every bit as malevolent, menacing and sinister as Tom was in the role in the Reverse Flash, and his contributions to why Thawne was the Arrowverse’s greatest villain cannot be overlooked. Not just for how brilliant he was in The Flash, but also in Legends of Tomorrow Season 2 as part of the Legion of Doom.
Imagine the scene a Super-Hero and his Greatest Arch-Enemy drinking together in a bar or in a coffee shop and talking as if they were best friends like you the clear tension of anger between the two but one of them is sarcastic and provocative (The Villain) like can you imagine happening with Batman and the Joker or Superman and Lex Luthor maybe with Captain America and the Red Skull or Spider-Man and the Green Goblin it would be super awesome.
What I love most about this scene is that Barry, through all his experiences and adventures, has become a seasoned hero. So much so he’s finally become THE Flash(sorta) that Thawne always references. The one that’s got years under his belt, that one that knows what he’s doing. S3 Thawne to S3 Barry:”The you I know from the future, he’s not this stupid” Thawne to S9 Barry:”You always were smart”
Man I really loved Matt Lescher's thawne. He really felt like Reverse Flash. Petty, crazy, charismatic, genius. Tom Caneagh was incredibly in season 1 and I liked him in season 5, but I really wish all of the other reverse flash scenes had been Matt. I mean for one it would have made more sense.
If I were Barry I wouldn’t be able to hold back a “You have no idea how bad your days going to get after tonight. You have no idea how hard your own hubris is going to destroy you”
Barry got it all out of his system with all his past encounters with thawne. Especially when he 1st learned it was thawne. But after dealing with the same douche for so long it’s not worth it. You feel pity for him. It kills Barty because he has to let this toxic fanboy kill his mother. I’m not doing so creates a bad timeline. The best outcome comes from letting this maniac kill his mother. He has the power to stop it. Stopping it is the worst choice. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Wait, somethings just occurred to me: have these two ever actually _met_ for the first time? Like when Barry first meets Thawne Thawne has already encountered Barry in the future multiple times, and when Thawne first meets Barry it’s after years of Barry defeating him and watching him die over and over again. So these two meeting without knowing each other, has that ever happened?
Tom's Thawne is great, but he could never gloat in the misery of Barry like Matt's Thawne can. Could. His version just enjoys the flash's pain to much, its criminal how underused he was
Tom is amazing; I know, you know. You don't need me to tell you But a good chunk of my favorite scenes from the show are the interactions between Matt's Reverse Flash. I always loved when he appeared on the screen, especially now, since Barry is a more experienced version of himself than he was back in Season 3 and prior I was honestly really bitter about how the Reverse Flash was handled in the last season, especially with the whole nonsense about the forces. So this episode managed to do some really effective damage control to reignite my investment towards the character
I actually like how we didn’t get Matt’s version until the end, since he technically starts off (and now finishes off) the cycle with the Flash and himself to me I enjoyed seeing this version be the one who returned in the end so the Flash could finally complete the cycle with the REAL Thawne once and for all, needed to be saved for the final season honestly
Matt parallelsBarry way more than Tom did (and he’s actually a lot more built to be reverse flash than Tom) I just wish they used Tom a lot less. I hope we see Matt in the redesigned reverse flash suit
no this is the thawne who just learned flash’s identity so he goes back in time to kill him as a child like originally intended. he explains that in season 1
![Thawne Tells Barry About Other Thawnes | The Flash 8x18 [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KyXGi7RIny0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Barry Gets Stuck in Year 2000 & Sees His Parents | The Flash 9x10 [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vyxe35HKVhc/mqdefault.jpg)
Grant and Matt have great chemistry. Wish they had more scenes together.
IM SAYING, AND MFS THINK TOM IS BETTER, MATT BARELY GOT A CHANCE
@@Cosmicmorales You're 100% right. Tom's version of thawne is overused and extremely nonsensical, especially at this point.
@@Cosmicmorales agree tom is brilliant but matt isn't any less, whenever he comes he does make the show intense. ngl people say tom is better because of how many characters he can act
@@Cosmicmorales perfect said
@@CosmicmoralesI never really got that, Matt was always great as Thawne whenever he got the chance to play him.
I love how thawne doesn't understand that he's already lost. Even when barry is completely honest with him later it still goes over his head.
That's because Thawne is a 😈Narcissist😈 that only cares about winning against Barry in every way!
When Barry said “you will lose everything”- it was two fold
Thawne loses in 2000, by getting cut off from the speedforce and stranded there, where he became Dr.Wells
Also, “you will lose everything” could be a refrence to how he loses to Barry in 2023 after being used by the negative speed force
Exactly. He knows he can't end barry without ending himself. With no barry, Thawne never finds out about speedsters and how to become one, and thus never becomes one.
@@rcomp99 bootstrap paradox.
@@BlackFlightNYThere's a third one : his death from "Negative, Part Two". Subtle but true.
This was a pretty great scene.
You can really see how Barry changes his tone after realizing that this is the original Thawne that went back in time to kill him as a child.
Barry knows exactly what’s about to happen and seems almost sad about it.
Thawne is sitting there thinking it’s because he finally beat the Flash, when its actually quite the reverse.
Was that pun intended
@@GZilla311 fuck yeah it was
Nice!
@@nathanbrownlee9276well done.
I don't get it. How come it's the original Thawne from 2024 Because he acts like he knows this current Barry (wife and child reference). Also, didn't Thawne just arrive at night right from the future? Why is he here hours ago?
The Flash has over 180 episodes and Matt's Thawne has only been in 8 of them. Even worse he was basically giving 'villain of the week' status only being the main threat in 3 of the 8 episodes he was in. It's such a shame we couldn't get more of him. Matt and Grant have really good chemistry.
He was the best in Legends
That is true, he wasn’t in flash very much but he always made a big impact every time he was in it. We did get an entire season with him as the main villain in legends of tomorrow though.
They underused him. What I really wish they had shown was his story from the beginning in the original timeline. There was story there.
Matt is the best reverse flash/eobard thawne.
@@OneGaurdian Making him antagonist of a season or story would've wasted that chemistry. Bringing him in brought our radars on point like this scene and we knew something serious for the characters was going definitely going down.
So glad they brought Matt back one last time as Eobard. He's so good in the role.
He’s my favorite
He is how we should've seen Thawne after we found out who he really was
I feel like for the time line it makes more sense for Matt to play thawne in this episode because at this point thawne hasn’t stolen well’s identity yet
Knowing he's driving Barry nuts its the best thing to happen to him
Totally read that as "driving Barry's nuts"
Rule34 lmao
Except he isn’t. Barry has full knowledge of how this ends. Thawne is convinced he’s there to stop him; when in reality he’s already at peace with this canon event. Thawne will ultimately lose. He can have this battle.
Just... For real WHY couldn't we have more of this rivalry between Barry and Matt Letscher's Thawne?!?!
Cause CW has this weird obsession with Tom and was never ever able to let him go
Tom Cavanagh is more cheaper
@@e.v.g3926 yeah we could tell
i think if the last few episodes maintain this level of quality it could redeem itself
He should have been the main Thawne since season 2
0:40 This is when Barry realizes...this isn't the most recent Eobard Thawne. It's the pre-S1 Eobard Thawne that doesn't even know how his plan to kill younger Barry fails.
This is Eobard from the timeline Wells and Tess were alive! The timeline where Barry had his parents and a daughter called Dawn and had a perfect life, he should've killed him.
@@TheGreatWhiteCount Uh yea? That’s the pre-S1 Eobard. Barry can’t kill him, the event is fixed.
@NeonKue actually no as tharwn said killing him is the only thing that he could do that wouldn't mess everything up. It's strange but I'm assuming that killing him is like the cosmic joke here It's the one thing that would put everything back to the original time line but it's also the one thing Barry wouldn't do
@@TheGreatWhiteCount He would also have son named Don. The original timeline (as teased by S1 Wells-Thawne in Season 5 when Barry and Nora went to see him to fix the device) is one where Barry and Iris had twins, Don and Dawn, the Tornado Twins. Hence why Thawne was surprised when Nora said her name, and was like "That's nice......at least you get to keep one of them"
Bruh see this is why Matt should have been Thawne after season 1 he just oozes menace and ego naturally just from these interactions. Notice how after season 6 Barry stopped letting Cavanagh’s Thawne get under his skin even after creating a Reverse Flashpoint Barry still managed to remain calm in their interactions but Matt’s Thawne? Boy this man just knows how to push his buttons without even trying
Wellosbard is a very emotional version of Thawne. Heck he may not even be human anymore given what he's done to his body and how he existed after being removed from the timeline.
Barry for the most part isn't as familiar with this version of Thawne. Due to all the Well's he's met. He's forgiven the face.
He'd develop resistance to this face too if he saw him too much.
To be fair, Barry was acting for a good part of the scene (and beyond).
Matt encompased Thawne's ego and arrogance brilliantly, while Tom showed Thawne's patience and cunning. You just can't have one without the other.
@@magmaticgames Perfectly put. They played two different characters and Barry had to treat them differently. That is something the later seasons' writers forgot.
The best thing is that Barry knows where this is all going. He's playing Thawne from the beginning
its like a yin yang. they need eachother to live (not in a gay way)
@@PumipimababababaA fact acknowledged by Eobard Thawne himself. Or rather, his comic's counterpart...since he needs Barry to become Flash in order for him to become Reverse-Flash.
@@Pumipimababababayou had to make it though
It's not even playing Barry already knows what he has to do. And he's being genuine when he tells Thawne that he wants him to walk away and get on with his life. Barry has grown to such level of compassion that he even wants to help the man who will ruin his childhood just because he could
You missed a lot
if matt and tom switched turns every other episode after season one or so, it would've made things super interesting because each time barry would be confornted with two different versions that only wish to torture him. Would be even cooler if each season or so they'd teamed up to mess barry up.
Wanna make it better? What if Barry met both Thawnes with a 3rd one wearing Henry/Eddie's face?
nah cuz the blonde thawne is the one from before he goes back in time to kill him as a child. The "wells" thawne is from after, some point between when he took over wells body and before eddy killed himself
@@jb57551 oooooooh
@@notj7506 I was referring more to if they had written a completely different story/script than they did for seasons 2-9. The story would be totally different so yeah it definitely wouldn't be possible with story we got.
@@mikailtheonly i prefer the way they currently use thawne but I do however understand your point
The moment when Barry realizes this is the original Thawne…love it!
Which is weird cuz this thwane is from a time where Barry's parents were alive , so how does he know what this Barry been through?
@@troyheliodore It's never actually stated that Barry's parents were alive in the future. We just assumed they were. What Thawne said is probably true, Nora's death is a fixed point in time. We see that when that fixed point is prevented; Barry doesn't even become The Flash.
@@j0doe1the entire show is ran on an alternate timeline which thawne created by killing Nora which makes it a fixed point. The original timeline his mom lived and Barry still became flash but in 2020 not 2014. Reverse flash ends up coming to fight Barry around 2023 and in 2024 he finds out who the flash is and realizes he can time travel back to when Barry was a kid and kill him. That’s why at the end of season 1 we see multiple flashes in the house that night one of them is Barry who caused flashpoint and keeps himself from saving his mom. Thawne whole plan that night was to kill Barry not Nora he only killed her because original Timeline Barry who we never met saved himself
🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
@@troyheliodoreyou missed a lot
THIS SCENE IS SO GREAT!!! Every single moment if you think from Barry's pov you realize how he is coming to accept everything that is about to happen. He understands his role in this time, he sees Eobard's role and realizes how he is going to terribly fail AND how everything is going to start from this point. Grant's acting, Matt's acting and this scene are just 🤌🤌🤌
"You win. I can't stop you."
I'm sorry, but I don't even think Wellsobard went that far to Barry in their rivalry. Just Thawne forcing Barry to admit he can't beat him... WOW
Flashpoint had a great moment of Thawne forcing Barry to grovel to kill his own mother.
Matt's thawne is way better than wellsobard. He should have been playing the character all the time instead of thawne. It would have made more sense and obviously would be just better in general.
I mean in a sense he's right, both him and Thawne are an endless paradox.
@@wyattlundrigan4740 the season 5 reverse flash is goat
The thing is... While, true, Barry cannot stop him. But it's not because he "can't" stop Eobard, he can. The real thing is Barry knew what was going to happen. What needed to happen.
This moment of him admitting that Eobard has won is Barry finally accepting Reverse Flash actions (killing his mom) in making Barry who he really is.
I never expected to see them having a drink together. It’s so weird, yet kinda funny 😂
I also love how at times he would act like there good friends to suddenly being even more cruel then Wellsobard! (Making Barry admit Eobard won)
@@Lollipop.er42 jokes on him though in the end, ha
Yeah he was enjoying that bud light a little too much
Both RF from Tom and Matt are great . Tom played the conflicted RF that both hates and loves the Flash family extremely great. He is someone that is mature , calculating and rarely makes mistakes or slip ups due to his experience. He constantly outplayed Team Flash in his 4D chess play.
Matt on the other hand depicted the ruthless , psychotic, impulsive and immature side of a younger RF extremely well.
It's CW that made the mistake of using Tom's RF in story parts where Matt's RF would have fit better. They should adapted the script so that it fits Tom's RF more.
For example Tom's RF fit the whole Nora arc well because they needed some sort of father figure / mentor for Nora which I can't see Matt play.
On the other end however last seasons Eobard and Crisis on Earth X's Eobard would have worked better with Matt's RF because he is more psychotic , ruthless and has the flaw to overestimate himself due to his youth.
There is a key difference between both RF.
Tom's RF has a psychological hold over Barry because he was one of his father figures and mentor. He made him what he is. His betrayal cut very deep into Barry which gives Tom's RF a position of superiority in their encounters.
With Matt's RF the roles are reversed. Matt's RF feels inferior to Barry. Barry is everything he has ever dreamed of being which is why he is much more suceptible to anger and rage which results in constant failure. Barry is here the one with the psychological advantage.
You said everything clearly.✌️✌️✌️
that’s why i prefer matt’s tbh, it feels much more like he believes his pettiness is actually justified, tom’s eobard should’ve just wanted to go home, his demeanour didn’t fit his later actions at all, he was always calculated but now he’s spent 17 years undercover, the fact that he’s more bombastic later on than matt’s eobard just doesn’t make sense for his character, i do think tom was right for the nora storyline though
@@doodoo5594 Exactly! Couldn't have said it better. Old RF was tired from his own tantrums and has seemingly matured. In the end of S1 he no longer cared about their rivalry. He was willing to create his rival just to get home.
Him trying to join Nazis in world conquest when he could have gone home makes no sense
@@RP-zl5ix to be fair in season 1 he inherited some if Wells personalit and was not really connected to the negative speed force
@@tobsonasanya4765 i never said they weren’t the same character, in fact my whole point is that they’re meant to be the same character, but they don’t feel like it in the later seasons
I don't think Thawne realizes that this isn't the same Barry he has a history with. Because there's so much more backstory implied here that we've never seen
For OG-Thawne he's only had a few conflicts with Barry by this point, the distant future when a time travelled Flash "ruined" his life by stopping a catastrophe he wanted to, 2x10-2x11 when Eobard comes back to early 2016 when he still doesn't know his identity to meet Team Flash, and the original 2024 Crisis he seems bound to before going back to the past for this day.
Grant and Matt just have good chemistry together
really wished we could of gotten more of this duo.
Yes !! I love Matt lesture reverse flash more than Tom cavannach,
@gamermixy.t3664 so am I.
Thawne probably interpreted it as Barry walking towards his funeral. Hence, that face at the end. I kind of get a sense of respect that he felt for Barry. Choosing to walk towards his end? He recognized strength and probably that fed further into his jealousy. He recognized courage. And yet....
Thawne is such a petty little man and I love it. The tension between these two was so awesome to watch
This is one of the greatest episodes of the series by far
Its funny because his Pettiness would ultimately dooms him.
@@judgedredd2039yep, if only he had listened to Barry and left, unfortunately Nora’s death is a fixed point, however Thawne got what he deserved being trapped and and without his speed
@@nicktroisi6347 Agreed.
“I wanna hear you say it.”season 3 reference
Oh yes, that is right. It was when Eobard was kept in a cell asking him to say this...😮
THIS is why he is the best thawne. He’s sadistic and not someone who screams when he’s won
@@Lollipop.er42 both versions do that
The resolve Barry has not to reach across the table and not strangle the life out of him, or lock him inside a makeshift prison.
Speaking of season 3...what really happened to season 3 Eobard after he got killed by black flash?
Nothing like a drink with your arch nemesis
I like it when Barry and Thawne talk to each other instead of trying to rip each other’s throats out.
Really love how they comeback Matt as OG Reverse Flash that's perfect...
Really good episode.
They had to, cause this is thawne before meeting harrison wells so he couldnt have his face.
@@piratealoomuere934 never stopped them before actually scratch that I cant keep up with where wells rf timeline is
@@SatoreyGojo He is just a time remnant, brought by the negative speedforce every time he gets defeated.
@@SatoreyGojo I think s5 matt was busy at the time so they did a hybrid thing
This scene was meticulous crafted, probably the best scene of the season. It’s like they put all their effort into one scene and take bathroom breaks through the rest
Barry knows everything...thawne has no idea what he's doing to himself,briliant!!!
Imagine if, after Barry said "I know, I can run towards it," Thawne thinks "Wait what? Ok now _his_ goals are beyond my understanding"
Thawne having a glass of beer in his hand seemed appropriate, since he always did seem like someone who was drunk with power.
Delicious
And having Barry, someone who has the same potential to get equally drunk with power, refusing to drink.
It's probably not intentional by the writers, but it's still a cool metaphor none the less.
Flash writers/showrunners the real villains they robbed of this amazing duo for 9 seasons
Eric Wallace was the worst
Man Thawne is such a great villain. The stuff with him in it is so good. Wish the show hadn't gone so stupid in later seasons.
Thawne saying “delicious” should become a meme to be honest.
i love it
This scene it's everything
FRRR
This was the day Thawn created a hell of his own making. Stuck in a long endless cycle while every other Barry is finding ways to move forward. No matter how many times Thawn says he wins he still loses. Thanks to anyone who reads this.
They wasted matt letscher 😔 he should have been main thawne since season 2
Yea tbh
Honestly yes
imo tom had was better at being terrifying af
Every appearances should've been a different one time tom one time matt just to mess with barry
Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 uses him a lot but yeah
Why did they waste the whole season and make it trash but actually make the last few episodes good😂💀
Save budget
Waste??
@@tobsonasanya4765yes, waste
It feels like we're in 2014 watching the 1st season of this great (for whose time) show!!! Love Matt's and Grant's chemistry
Love to see Matt as Thawne. Wished we had more of him
He was great on Legends and as an anti hero as well
^
Bizarro: Im you. only but Bizarre.
Reverse Flash: Im you. only but reverse.
Bizarro is the clone of Clark Kent/Kal El. He has bad grammar or speech. Reverse Flash could have been Barry allen's clone. His name is Allen Barrick, named after Barry and Garrick, not some time traveler named Eobard Thawne. Savitar is actually a clone of Barry allen.
Wild how they got two great performances out of a single character
Imagine being stuck on an island with the person you hate the most.
That's basically how this feels.
Island, you say? Oliver would know the feeling
Like Marriage.
The final arc it’s the beginning of the flash now that’s iconic
0:42 is when Barry realizes it.
"You seem tense, i really think you should try it- "
Always the jokester.
The way they portrayed this is amazing actually because usually Thawn is the smarter of the two being from the future he usually knows everything that has and will happen but what makes this episode so special is that this is but Barry's last time meeting thawn while also being time he meets the youngest thawn possible.. meaning this thawn is young and dumb. Barry's warms him and instead of taking the word of the guy who not only doesn't really lie but is from the future so he would know. The last time this Thawn saw Barry was the oldest possible Barry. It's the 'The Time Traveler's Wife', (good show) in this shooter man who lives traveling accidently back in forth through time as he gets older always meeting the love of his life at different ages. There's a point in their lives where the oldest version of himself is sent back to the time where his wife was her youngest self, a little girl. Barry is now that old man and Thawn is that little girl
the youngest is not this guy , this one is after thawn came in season 2 even harry says it that this is where he learns who the flash is and who harrision wells is , also this barry is younger than his becasue all of the events happen sooner than they were supposed to his barry was mid 30s our barry i early 30s
Eobard believes this will be his greatest victory.
But some will say... It's the reverse.
I’m dead 😭
What's even scarier is that this Reverse-Flash didn't do anything yet disguised as Harrison Wells, and yet, he knows what he had done to Barry so...I'm now sure he knows EVERYTHING just like his comics counterpart (he remembered EVERY deaths, EVERY changes).
he knows the timeline being from the future and having the records, but to experience the events first hand as they lay out is another thing :v
@@nemoisblueIndeed...And yet, that's how he pulled EVERY conflicts in the comics, including the Flash Wars. He even went as far as making Hunter Zolomon becoming Zoom and August Heart becoming Godspeed. That's how scary Eobard Thawne can be...
He met Barry in S2 prior, I suspect he fought with Barry maybe a year from now or something. Somehow he learned Barry's identity though
@@redtech4798 That was his very first encounter with Flash, but he didn't know his identity back then. That's only when he returned to his time and fought a future version of Barry that he continued to dig some research about who the Flash is and he found out eventually.
@@byonemesis no lmao he was a flash fanboy he was obsessed with him, he did all the research he could but as we learn from s5 the flash museum is wrong and incorrect abt many things. Its obvious bc if u look at flashpoint he says that they have to correct time by killing barry's mom, that only makes sense if killing barry's mom is a fixed point like we're told.
If the og timeline was ever true it was retconned by s2, and i don't think it was bc the newspaper is from this timeline not another one, as it changes when THIS BARRY loses powers.
0:37 Barry: "Interesting.... you are THAT Thawne"
It will always be funny how THIS Thawne (Matt Letscher's version), was the one who was said to have fought Barry many times before (from Thawne's perspective), before earning barry's identity and acting his plan of "trying to kill barry as a child" (that would leave him stuck in the past and set into the path of becoming tom cavanagh's reverse flash) but we never actually saw that.
Only in S2 EP 11, where we saw Thawne meeting Barry for the first time (from his perspective).
Which is such a shame. Matt's Reverse flash was more an enemy of the legends than barry.
It would have been interesting having matt's reverse flash be a co-villain of a season, him orchestrating attacks from the shadows (as him being objectively slower than barry, would force him to rely on cunning to defeat him), until finally learning barry's secret identity. ending the season with him declaring he will go back in time to kill barry as a kid (thus seeing almost all of the events leading to the series premiere)
💯💯💯Agreed this should be thawne from season 2
I think they definitely underused Matts thawne but Toms thawne was just as good. Especially in season 1. It’s just a shame we didn’t get to see more of Matt
Tom's Reverse Flash stopped being interesting after S1, after that he's the most generic ass dude with the "I'm gonna kill you and your friends mentality"
Except maybe for Armageddon but even that was stupid af
Jesus did they hire new writers for the final arc
This aged like milk
Hahahahha honestly
too little, too late.
This was likely planned since Season One. It doesn’t change the fact that this show has sucked for years.
@@nazomius7033 doubt, i think its a completely different writing staff now
I think they just hired writers in general
Pretty great acting, Barry is so mature and tired at this point, he has given up and accepted that eobard is a tormented soul that cannot be saved. He gave his last shot and yet eobard is just too deranged.
Damn I really can't tell who I prefer playing Thawne, Tom and Matt are both so good in their own unique ways
Man, Matt Letscher makes this show so much better. I havent even watched in years but will still click on some of his scenes when they pop up. Wish they would've used him more, he brings out the best of the show. Legends season 2 was also the only really solid season, because once again, Matt Letscher
This dynamic has always been the best part of the entire show
For the people talking about Matt's role as Reverse Flash, if it means anything he did great job in season 2 of Legends of Tomorrow.
That’s OUR FLASH! INDOMITABLE AND FOWARD MOVING THROUGH, NO MATTER WHAT! 3:04
Finally... Season 9 just got better.
I missed Thawne so much.
Thawne looks like he came a little bit when he heard that😂😂
What I noticed here is when Barry speaks to Thawne about not killing him as a child earlier he says at the 2:00 minute mark why he says why couldn't Thawne just wiped him off the face of the Earth. I just thought it was a nice callback to season 1's finale where in that episode Thawne's locked up in the pipeline and tells Barry why he killed his mother that night and he says similar words to what season 9 Barry had just said to Thawne in the year 2000. Honestly, this episode wasn't just the best episode of the season but the episode of all time. Really liked how everything came full circle and we saw the events of the night from Season 9's Barry POV. I know there are theories of him being the Original timeline flash but to be fair in my opinion this is just the post-crisis version of the March 18, 2000 fight.
Now who’s the villain Flash, Now who’s the villain!
Now THIS Thawne. This Thawne actually scares me.
He’s way more arrogant and brutal compared to HR Thawne.
He faces the heroes head on and dares them to try something. This is no coward
Not only that but he doesn't whisper every line
These two shared so little screentime together in 9 seasons that this one scene was like Al Pacino and Robert De Niro in the restaurant in Heat
didn’t thawne go back into time to kill young barry during a fight where they traveled back into time moments before
I think this is that same Thawne
Yeah, but it's different here. Instead he was just spending the entire day in this exact day before he decides to kill young Barry, whereas in season 1 both him and the og flash came out of a time portal moments before young Barry is tucked in by his parents.
@@wyattlundrigan4740 yea but because the timeline changed and the crisis happened back in 2019 the night had to happen differently
Eobard Thawne is the new definition of a Time travelling Serial Killer, he even sounds like one when he talks about his "Parental get together".
Barry outgrew Cavanaugh' Thawne but not Matt's Thawne... It's amazing to have both Thawne's.
As much as I love the chemistry between Grant and Tom Cavanagh’s rendition of Thawne, I love the interactions between Grant and Matt Letscher even more. If for no other reason than their confrontations were rarer throughout the show’s run.
Matt was every bit as malevolent, menacing and sinister as Tom was in the role in the Reverse Flash, and his contributions to why Thawne was the Arrowverse’s greatest villain cannot be overlooked. Not just for how brilliant he was in The Flash, but also in Legends of Tomorrow Season 2 as part of the Legion of Doom.
Imagine the scene a Super-Hero and his Greatest Arch-Enemy drinking together in a bar or in a coffee shop and talking as if they were best friends like you the clear tension of anger between the two but one of them is sarcastic and provocative (The Villain) like can you imagine happening with Batman and the Joker or Superman and Lex Luthor maybe with Captain America and the Red Skull or Spider-Man and the Green Goblin it would be super awesome.
Best well written villain in the show right there
Thawne:say it
Barry: I love you thawne
Thawne:wth ಠ_ಠ
What I love most about this scene is that Barry, through all his experiences and adventures, has become a seasoned hero. So much so he’s finally become THE Flash(sorta) that Thawne always references. The one that’s got years under his belt, that one that knows what he’s doing.
S3 Thawne to S3 Barry:”The you I know from the future, he’s not this stupid”
Thawne to S9 Barry:”You always were smart”
Man I really loved Matt Lescher's thawne. He really felt like Reverse Flash. Petty, crazy, charismatic, genius. Tom Caneagh was incredibly in season 1 and I liked him in season 5, but I really wish all of the other reverse flash scenes had been Matt. I mean for one it would have made more sense.
Nah
@@Synn2cutt 🤷♂️
Thawnes face at the end. I wonder if he just started having doubt.
Flashpoint Thawne - the you i know from the future, he's not this stupid
Season 9 Thawne - you always were smart 0:48
I thought he was going to say : you can't walk away without finishingyour beer cause i paid for it"
A chef accidentally snuck into the room for this episode
If I were Barry I wouldn’t be able to hold back a “You have no idea how bad your days going to get after tonight. You have no idea how hard your own hubris is going to destroy you”
nah, he did the right thing he had no other choice but to endure what was gonna happen, its all destiny.
Barry got it all out of his system with all his past encounters with thawne. Especially when he 1st learned it was thawne. But after dealing with the same douche for so long it’s not worth it. You feel pity for him. It kills Barty because he has to let this toxic fanboy kill his mother. I’m not doing so creates a bad timeline. The best outcome comes from letting this maniac kill his mother. He has the power to stop it. Stopping it is the worst choice.
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Nothing like enjoying a warm beer with your arch nemesis
All he had to say was "I forgive you" and Thawne would have exploded in confusion
Barry not trying to change things is such a huge character growth scene.... T^T
Wait, somethings just occurred to me: have these two ever actually _met_ for the first time?
Like when Barry first meets Thawne Thawne has already encountered Barry in the future multiple times, and when Thawne first meets Barry it’s after years of Barry defeating him and watching him die over and over again. So these two meeting without knowing each other, has that ever happened?
Thawne said DELICIOUS 😂
Tom's Thawne is great, but he could never gloat in the misery of Barry like Matt's Thawne can. Could. His version just enjoys the flash's pain to much, its criminal how underused he was
This one of the best scene the show has had in awhile I wish the rest of seasons 5-9 were like this lol
Tom is amazing; I know, you know. You don't need me to tell you
But a good chunk of my favorite scenes from the show are the interactions between Matt's Reverse Flash. I always loved when he appeared on the screen, especially now, since Barry is a more experienced version of himself than he was back in Season 3 and prior
I was honestly really bitter about how the Reverse Flash was handled in the last season, especially with the whole nonsense about the forces. So this episode managed to do some really effective damage control to reignite my investment towards the character
Eobard thinks this is OG barry
Thawne the best speedster and never loses everytime you think its over it isn't and he will always be back
He should’ve said “I can run towards it.” It was practically gift-wrapped for them 😂
Looks like Thawne is back.
I actually like how we didn’t get Matt’s version until the end, since he technically starts off (and now finishes off) the cycle with the Flash and himself to me I enjoyed seeing this version be the one who returned in the end so the Flash could finally complete the cycle with the REAL Thawne once and for all, needed to be saved for the final season honestly
This is the moment Barry realized this is not a current version of Thawn.
The fastest clips alive
THIS IS ORIGINAL TIMELINE SHIT RIGHT HERE
Imagine being a regular at this fine establishment and you hear these two talking about this at the next table. 😂
The moment Barry realizes that he is just there to fulfill the paradox with Eobard Thawne.
They wasted Matt in this show. Realistically Tom as Eobard in season 1 was enough.
To top it off, the RF in the finale seen with the other speedster villains is Tom too
@@timelessr9407 😢 that sucks man
Matt parallelsBarry way more than Tom did (and he’s actually a lot more built to be reverse flash than Tom) I just wish they used Tom a lot less. I hope we see Matt in the redesigned reverse flash suit
The irony is Thawne is enjoying the day and will have his own reasons to hate tonight for years to come.
This was probably the best episode in years.
Pagey was right
What did he said?
@@rodrigocandia1937 that eobard wants to kill Barry as a child which he never did so it was his last option
Awesome scene
Grant will continue to be the best flash we will ever have.
So thawne is here to create another reverse flashpoint? We’ve already went through that story line
No this is the moment where it all began
This thawne wants to kill Barry as a child as always intended but he then kills Nora which is how the story started
One thing: I think Barry is in another universe but alternate timeline since Oliver tells that the Multiverse is reborn from existence
This thawne is younger I believe
no this is the thawne who just learned flash’s identity so he goes back in time to kill him as a child like originally intended. he explains that in season 1