Yeah, but now that I'm learning all these tips at the gravel speed shop, I'm thinking maybe I'll win a few more trophies for roosting in the over-60 class. 😀
thanks for the simple math brake down. especially at 10mph! Ive never an aero breakdown this slow, and it's definitely a real speed for a lot of people
Your videos take a while to come compared to others but they are well worth the wait. Thanks for sharing and putting out all the science and experience to back it. I'm not a racer but I'm always seeking to improve so your channel is well loved on my part. BTW, your alter ego character is genius, top notch comedy and I always look forward to it. Thanks again!
Lots of good takeaways, even for more casual or fondo riders: keep your chain clean, tidy your cables, choose tires carefully, etc.. These will let riders at all speeds use less energy and ride faster or further. Keep up the solid content!
Kudos to Factor. So much cool and right things done. Rest assured you are not the only one preaching to the industry to do the simple and obvious things like that handlebar where you can screw aerobars on and off to your liking. Actually it blows my mind how intricate and overengineered (cough, Canyon, cough - but they aren't the only offenders) some integrated cockpits are and how the companies wax lyric on a few saved watts here and there when the greatest saving is the riders position. Aerodynamics and comfort for long gravel rides... If you want that you have that to throw that cool integrated cockpit out of the window with many top gravel (and road bikes for that matter) bikes and mounting a normal stem handlebar combo to be able to fit real aerobars. And you have a PITA of a rerouting / reconnecting brake hoses to boot. So again - hat's off to Factor. That's how it's done.
love the direct mount aero bars. the only other company I could find doing that is Vison. The METRON 4D FLAT M.A.S. AEROBAR. Not only does it look cleaner but as someone who rides with clip on aero bars it would be much easier/faster to take them on and off without the hassle of leveling them correctly each time.
I got the 4d MAS for my road bike last winter, and they are fantastic. It takes me 5 minutes to install the aero bars (less to remove them), and thus do it often depending on the route/training I am doing. I wish this was more popular and available for all integrated handlebars. I hope factor adds this one to their road lineup too!
Gravel has had me scratching my head for a long long time. It's a race? It's a scene? Its' how you go ride alone in the woods with no cars? What are those bikes?? They're road bikes... mostly, until they're mountain bikes... wait... I finally got one and for me it is the ability to ride just about anywhere, any surface, and all on the same bike, on the same ride. It's awesome.
Matters alot for Dylan since he lets the first group go after 23 mins. Top 5 fav channels. Even if its a topic I don't care about I'll let it play and like for support.
I don't care about speed, but I do care about efficiency. Riding further in the same amount of time means I see more and have more fun ;-) Especially when efficiency "hacks" are free (or cheap).
Oh you arrive at your destination 20 sec faster over that 4-hour ride lol It's marketing hype that would not even benefit the pros when you consider most of the they are drafting aero gains are important to time trial and that's about it the rest is more and more marketing blurb.
Agree with your wider tyre theory - I have both 40 and 45 mm Pirelli Mud tyres on my gravel bike and the wider ones are faster and, of course, more comfortable.
It's kinda funny that somebody that loves riding a 40 lbs drop-bar Pugsley on gravel races would be interested in aero gains (see profile pic from The Almanzo years ago) ... but you really made the point, getting aero is important. Being one of the only people racing gravel with drop-bars on a fatbike, I'm regularly on the the podium for fatbike categories, and frequently beat riders on new CF gravel bikes to the finish.
I raced on Continental RaceKing Protects in 27.5x2.2 for Unbound XL, Rockstar 250, and Gravel Worlds 300. Everyone was so shocked, but I was at the front end of all of those races and was happy
Dylan, maybe a summury about your preparations to the season (zone 2, HIT and weight/gym trainging and so on..) and a conclusion what did work for you what did not and what would you change for the upcomming 2023🙏🙌🏻 btw thanks for awesome content/knowledge❗️
if i was a bike company i'd only make 2 dropbar disc bikes: one would be aero, racing optimized with clearance for ~40mm (as measured, not the conservative estimate) one would be endurance with clearance for 45mm and more i think those two would fit 99% of riders
1. why drops better than hoods? tests (even implied in your vids) show low forearm frontal area (hoods) faster than drops 2. wider tyre rolling resistance: N=1 experience (on an interval - 100s of repeats on the downhill); it's the profile that matters - GK knobbly significantly slower at higher speeds (downhill) than visibly more aero Pathfinder Pros at same size
To better answer the question of WHY the aerodynamics give you a better advantage at relatively lower speeds, we could observe a basic air drag model and see that air drag is directly prepositional to the drag coefficient ( aerodynamic efficient), but is proportional to the SQUARE of velocity. So overall velocity will always have a greater impact on how much resistive force is experienced and as Dylan pointed out, compounded over time that will result in greater time gains at lower speeds.
Only a couple of mins in but one of the other considerations is you are more likely to be in the wind/not in a peloton in a gravel race. So despite a lower speed the effective wind speed is higher
Hi Dylan! Absolutely love your content. I learned a lot from it, and it's safe to say all the provided knowledge has increased my performance and fun on the bike. However, what really caught my attention in this video was that you run bigger chainrings in the front. I already upgraded my bigger chainring from 46 to 48 (GRX) about 10k ago and really felt the difference. Since my next drivetrain maintenance is fast approaching, I already had a look into the compatibility of the GRX groupset with a Shimano road crankset. Unfortunately it seems there is next to no information available, apart from GRX (47mm) and road groupsets (43/44mm) having different chainlines. Would appreciate a lot if you leave a short comment about how you went about installing bigger chainrings. Best regards from the flatlands of Northern Germany
I see body position as being a major improvement in aerodynamics, but hoods, cables, etc., I see being in the realm of the "aero-weanie". (close cousin to the "weight-weanie")
Changing flavors on the Hyper Gain Beast Mode Mass Gainer Raw Edition enabled me to sit up on the bike during 100 mile races and come in 2 mph faster than the full aero race position.
Above all 4 things you mentioned is positioning. You can do quite a bit just by optimizing your bike size & fit. It's also better to have a slightly less aero position that you can hold for 4 hours straight, rather than having a super aero position in the drops that you can only hold for 5 minutes, and then you end up riding with straight arms on the hoods all race.
I like the aero gravel bike option, since IF I ever can afford to buy a new, crunchy carbon, disc braked, fully hidden/'integrated' cable/brake lines wonder, I can buy ONE bike to ride on both the roads AND the canal tow paths around here (with just a wheel/tire change, of course). I do not like the 'MTB with drop bars' stance of some of the 'sliding the back wheel around downhill gravel/trail turns' current gravel bikes, and would rather skew my priority to a fast road bike (albeit not 'race' geometry) which has the wheel/tire clearance to be ridden on gravel paths.
I care about marginal gains because going slightly faster makes the suffering slightly shorter. Ive got the *other* aero gravel bike from 3t and it forced me to sell my endurance road bike because it was slower and less comfortable.
You should get a regular aero bike and slap on gravel tires and gearsets onto it. Madone, aeron, supersix, venge vias, felt ar are the fastest frames with the lowest watts.
I don't care that much either but it is helpful when I make decisions on the new Giant Revolt purchase regarding wheel and tire choices. I ride on pavement and light gravel. Retiring in 2 years and rides will increase.
On a recent "The Gravel Ride" podcast Josh P. Claimed that just aero drop bars can save up to 28-30 watts at wind tunnel speeds. I believe if I'm correct that speed is usually 30mph. While I normally travel at half that speed, I am now shopping for an aero drop bar. And my rationale is actually less about the watts I might save (I'm on a steel non-aero frame with exposed cable), and more about the comfort of the wing shaped bar tops. Interesting stuff here. Nice video Dylan!
Yeah, I kind of wish that those were a possibility in alloy, and NOT exclusively carbon, but eventually I might get them anyway in the crunchy stuff to try and alleviate my 'cyclist's palsy' (and yeah, they look cool as well!). Josh also claimed that the 'nest' of cables coming out of the bars in the middle, under the stem (like I currently have on my now very 'old school' frame and setup), is decidedly and measurably UN-aero, and DOES actually cost cdA watts, just like Dylan explained above. So, sadly, whatever infinitesimal 'gains' I might get from the NACA shaped bar tops will be negated by those exposed cables.
@@Fordworldrallyfan since I do not run electronic shifting, I to have cables that will cause aerodynamic disadvantage. Honestly, The main reason I would get a flat top arrow style handlebar is for the possible comfort factor. It does make a lot of sense that a wide flat top will be more comfortable in your palms.
Super interesting suff! I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts in a future vid on Jonas Vingegaard's bike having a 1x drivetrain, both last year and this year.
"Aerodynamics makes some sort of small difference at all speeds, even very slow ones" /proceeds to show a clip of Dylan motoring along comfortably at a pace I could handle for 73 whole seconds before giving up biking/
Just got an aero handlebar for gravel bike, (not aero bars) aero sleeves aero socks aero helmet and an aero food box. I do have aero bottles but they don’t carry enough water for gravel race distances.
Great Vid Dylan, I always enjoy them with the comedy inserts. Yeah your right on all the points you make. I own a Diverge which only has tiagara parts and it still weights the same as all the pro models. I have fun with my bike and do gravel close by me. It was hard finding ng the sweet spot for n my tire pressure for my pathfinder so 38. I finally settled on 35 front n 37 on back tire on size 38’s.
Yeah, but what if you get up to speed in the drops then move to the hoods but keeping your same profile. A friend said I’m hard to draft cuz I ride the drops but I’m not. I look at the shadows of our peloton and my arms are bent not locked. Best aero advantage gains is our own bodies
Are fully internal cables necessary in gravel? Yes, on a bare bike, they are much more aero, but a gravel bike usually has a top tube bag. Every gravel race I’ve ever done requires a big giant number plate across the front. Between those two, couldn’t the cables be hidden form the wind there, and just have normal, in the frame routing for the rest? In fact, since it’s not UCI stuff, you could make small fairings easily enough to shield the cable and make the fin of the bike more aero, while still being able to remove them for service.
Interesting question! I would guess that if one were going for aero gains, than a deeper rim? But if the width of the tire would defeat the aero advantage of the rim, than perhaps the lighter (shallow) is the way to go?
@@justinofboulder sounds logic but where lies the treshhold when the width of the tire defeats the aero advantage? Most rims outer width is maximum 30mm. So is the aero advantage defeated by a 45mm tire? maybe we need new aero wide width aero wheels before they make any sense on gravel bikes. I would never go below 45mm.
That's funny where I had the same thought pedaling in the mid range of a cassette is more efficient . The only difference I went to a smaller front single chainring to match up to my 12 speed pie plate in the rear as I ride more technical MTB trails and mostly not getting those higher speeds . The smaller ring keeps me in that mid range for a majority of the ride . I do think 2 by systems with smaller cassettes are more efficient than the single rings and the pie plates on the rear
I converted from a 1X setup to a 2X setup. I mostly ride paved roads, dirt roads, and gravle so i have no need for a 1X's chain drop resistance anyway.
How about comfort? Would having a rear suspension like for example the Berria Belador, the Cannondale topstone, or the moots Softail gravel bike help you stay "fresher" through long rides outweigh any aero gains a gravel bikes would have (considering that all other things remain equal)? Or would a more flexible seatpost be better than the complexity of frame suspension. Like for example the ergon flex posts. Concerning aerodynamics I think that the rider position is the biggest factor and if some sort of suspension or flex aids in keeping that aero position for longer than that's better in the long run.
This bike clicks some boxes for me vs. my current rig: slightly longer reach, lower BB, and of course attention paid to aero gains. But I cannot stomach the price. I just cannot see the "value" in frame sets which are over $5K, when there are many just as good frames (in terms of quality of carbon construction) at sub $4K prices. It seems that many brands which come form the road side set their pricing based on name "prestige" rather than any real advantage in the actual construction quality of the frame. Considering that most of these frames in one of a few Asian builders, the price differences appear very difficult to justify.
In the last video within this video you're not wearing an aero helmet ??? Does that change when you race? How about raceway gear? Speedsuit? Is there a video coming ? Cheers, love your content!
I'm just being pedantic here, but aerodynamics does not matter exponentially more as your speed increases (as you say at 0:50). Drag is proportional to velocity squared, so the relationship is only polynomial, not exponential.
Great video. I love it that you speak your mind and use the equipment that makes the most sense. A question - Your seat is slammed all the way forward. I wondered what your saddle seat back is?
I don't like Aero Bars. Use Specialized S Work for a few years took it off and pun on FSA-Force Light Nano and love it because of the easier adjustability. For me on the hood and the drop make only 2kmh difference. For long ride and races comfort is very important for me rather than fighting with my bike I rather choose comfort.
I'm glad Factor makes this bike, because there is no reason a gravel bike shouldn't be aero, and there's little reason an aero bike can't have clearance for wide tires. There's no reason you should need to buy three or four bikes!
Awesome video - do you still love this bike? I’m thinking of the Ostro as next bike vs upgrading to the new Crux - your thoughts are much appreciated and of course the community’s
Yes great video, I do get a lil board of the white paper. I’ll just take you at your word 😄. I don’t care much for gravel, but now I feel like I need to care more about it on my road bike!
Late to the comments party but I just don't understand how he can make the geometry of the bike work for both the aero position and the upright riding position. He's not using a noseless saddle, yet he doesn't seem to die from perineal pain, which is what I do. I assume the general assumption is still that the aero position consists of a higher, more forward saddle with anterior pelvic tilt (increasing pressure on the perineum), whereas riding on the hoods would mean moving the saddle back, a little lower and less forward tilt.
Having been in several races with people using aerobars, I don't have a problem with them existing, even in the race. The problem is that you get a lot of people using them while in a group. This puts everyone next to, and behind that person, at risk. Classic example of why we can't have nice things...
You should question your assumptions more. First assumption is that actual exertion and heart rate remain the same for a given power on the hoods or in the drops.
That's an impressive assembly of tech applications, Dylan, thanks for telling us all about them. And my thought on aero bars for gravel is just that they look really lame, like gravel racers are really wishing they were catching rays en route to a personal best in swimsuits in Hawaii and that only works in Kona. And if gravel is supposed to have an outlaw spirit, why not bring back the Spinaci bars? Those are cool with cred for getting banned by the UCI.
As far as I'm concerned, unless one is riding a TT on a road bike, vs. a dedicated TT/tri bike (and ONLY then), TT/tri 'extensions' are "lame" on a road bike, for general road riding/training.
@@Fordworldrallyfan I'm right there with you, all TT jive is fine for TTs but otherwise it is lame and now it seems they're trying to impose one-piece outfits on roadies as we saw in Le Tour with Wout, I think it was, and I contend the jersey/shorts combo will always be cycling fashion at its zenith. So yeah, not a fan of all the TT imposition on other disciplines, but hey, I still think banana seats are cool, no need for all these 26" cruiser bikes to only sport ten-speed seats like it is 1974 in California and all the kids are changing stuff on their Sting-Rays for BMX races. And I never took the bait, the banana seat and those high-rise bars were the only reason I could comfortable ride my Sting-Ray into my early teens when that bike was the only game in town for riding everywhere in Pacifica. 😀
With you on the aero bars but about 5 years ago I put my old Spinaci bars on my roadie and got used to them doing longish rides, after about 6 months I took them off for a race and discovered I didn't need them and now ride in pretty much the same position (puppy paws) most of the time.
@@gregmorrison7320 Thanks for sharing your experience and I, too, had a set of those bars and enjoyed using them for a time and I liked how adjustable they were. And it just seems a low-key or minimalist solution, like those bars or something which supports puppy paws, would better fit gravel than full-on big-buck TT bars from road and track and triathlon.
@@robbchastain3036 STILL agree, but, I can see Dylan's point about RACING with them on gravel, since he is a pro, and must show results in order to keep being supported/employed by the sponsors. He absolutely NEEDS ALL of those 'marginal gains' he can get! But yeah, the gravel racing peeps had better try their damndest to keep the UCI from taking control over their whole sport, everywhere, since those bars will be banned as 'illegal equipment' by them in any mass start type event. As far as Dylan's point about aero has some helping effects at any speed, he forgot to mention that it helps immensely in strong block headwinds, as the more aero one can get fighting those brutal 'walls' of air, the more exponential the watts saved. I still cannot understand HOW (OK, besides the EPO that every cynical clown is going to bring up now) the pro peloton can ride at 30 MPH+ into 20 MPH+ headwinds, even with frequent changes at the front of the bunch!?! Their wattage must be off of the charts while doing this.
where..? might someone find those handlebars + integrated aero?" I'm definitely looking for the cleanest way to add some aero bars to my cockpit without screwing up the carbon bars or having to swap to some alloy. that is sooooooo clean.
its very much what works for you, I race a winter gravel series on forest trails on my road bike, with 28mm Durano DDs so a solid road tyre pumped up to around 95psi, always gives me a definite advantage especially on the climb sections over gravel/mountain type bikes, I usually have a top 5 finish, but would I recommend that set up for anyone else ?
Serious question: Why are people using bottles instead of packs? There's no way a dual bottle cage is "more aero" than a USWE pack... Not sure if this has been wind tunnel tested, but since we're nit-picking, this would be a good thing to test.
When used as intended, a forward saddle position allows the rider to get lower on the front without impinging the hips with too tight a hip angle if they have the flexibility and core muscles to support the position. You may notice a slight saddle tilt forward on these setups since the riders whole body rotates. It aids with aero bar positioning and emulates a steep seat tube angle like found on a TT bike. The downside is more pressure on the hands as they support more body weight and potentially some minor handling consequence as the F/R balance trends forwards. Some riders slam the saddle forward if their bike to too big or their stem is too long.
I see you have GRX with SRAM crank arms/power meter. I have read that the SRAM width is slightly diff from GRX. Have you noticed any alignment issues? Maybe my internet source was wrong. I have GRX 810 with Garmin power pedals. I have not been impressed with the garmin pedals and I need shorter crank arms. Thinking about doing the mixed set up that you have. I have a mixed setup on my road bike and it works great.
I don't care about marginal gains on my bike because I don't race, but I love watching your videos and learning all the theory.
This
@@peterknight7880 that's it, I simply don't care about performance, but I think this info super interesting
Yeah, but now that I'm learning all these tips at the gravel speed shop, I'm thinking maybe I'll win a few more trophies for roosting in the over-60 class. 😀
exactly
read my mind.
I thought this was only going to be a boring advert for Factor but I am glad that this video is much more technical.
Aero is less complaint.
@@mattk8810 you literally have wider tires tho?
I liked this a lot because it brought together a lot the things you talk about into one video showing practical applications.
Backward hat Dylan was on point this video! Love the nerdery.
thanks for the simple math brake down. especially at 10mph! Ive never an aero breakdown this slow, and it's definitely a real speed for a lot of people
Your video convinced me to only ride in the drops all the time, even on my mountain bike.
You almost could have been doing a video about time trialing. Everything you mentioned really matters. Good stuff.
Your videos take a while to come compared to others but they are well worth the wait. Thanks for sharing and putting out all the science and experience to back it. I'm not a racer but I'm always seeking to improve so your channel is well loved on my part. BTW, your alter ego character is genius, top notch comedy and I always look forward to it. Thanks again!
Lots of good takeaways, even for more casual or fondo riders: keep your chain clean, tidy your cables, choose tires carefully, etc.. These will let riders at all speeds use less energy and ride faster or further. Keep up the solid content!
Kudos to Factor. So much cool and right things done. Rest assured you are not the only one preaching to the industry to do the simple and obvious things like that handlebar where you can screw aerobars on and off to your liking. Actually it blows my mind how intricate and overengineered (cough, Canyon, cough - but they aren't the only offenders) some integrated cockpits are and how the companies wax lyric on a few saved watts here and there when the greatest saving is the riders position. Aerodynamics and comfort for long gravel rides... If you want that you have that to throw that cool integrated cockpit out of the window with many top gravel (and road bikes for that matter) bikes and mounting a normal stem handlebar combo to be able to fit real aerobars. And you have a PITA of a rerouting / reconnecting brake hoses to boot.
So again - hat's off to Factor. That's how it's done.
Chamois is a softened deerskin. My wool cycling shorts had a deerskin chamois.
love the direct mount aero bars. the only other company I could find doing that is Vison. The METRON 4D FLAT M.A.S. AEROBAR. Not only does it look cleaner but as someone who rides with clip on aero bars it would be much easier/faster to take them on and off without the hassle of leveling them correctly each time.
I got the 4d MAS for my road bike last winter, and they are fantastic. It takes me 5 minutes to install the aero bars (less to remove them), and thus do it often depending on the route/training I am doing. I wish this was more popular and available for all integrated handlebars. I hope factor adds this one to their road lineup too!
@@dmallo nice! I have been debating on buying them for my road bike
ENVE have optional extensions for their aero road bar. Which is of limited availability lately
Gravel has had me scratching my head for a long long time. It's a race? It's a scene? Its' how you go ride alone in the woods with no cars? What are those bikes?? They're road bikes... mostly, until they're mountain bikes... wait... I finally got one and for me it is the ability to ride just about anywhere, any surface, and all on the same bike, on the same ride. It's awesome.
Also, this bike looks damn cool! It might not make you faster but it makes you look better. Worth it. :)
Matters alot for Dylan since he lets the first group go after 23 mins. Top 5 fav channels. Even if its a topic I don't care about I'll let it play and like for support.
I don't ride gravel, but still found this interesting and educational. Thank you! Besides that, I had missed Backwards Hat Dylan.
Good stuff Dylan. I am the proud owner of regular Ostro and love everything about that bike. Still waiting for your review of the Lando XC.
I subscribe to a lot of channels, but yours are the videos that I save for reference. This video is no exception. Well done.
I don't care about speed, but I do care about efficiency. Riding further in the same amount of time means I see more and have more fun ;-) Especially when efficiency "hacks" are free (or cheap).
Oh you arrive at your destination 20 sec faster over that 4-hour ride lol It's marketing hype that would not even benefit the pros when you consider most of the they are drafting aero gains are important to time trial and that's about it the rest is more and more marketing blurb.
I'm glad I found this channel because my first race is this upcoming Sunday (Gravel)
Agree with your wider tyre theory - I have both 40 and 45 mm Pirelli Mud tyres on my gravel bike and the wider ones are faster and, of course, more comfortable.
I guess this means we are going to start getting aero mountainbikes. Can't wait.😁
It's kinda funny that somebody that loves riding a 40 lbs drop-bar Pugsley on gravel races would be interested in aero gains (see profile pic from The Almanzo years ago) ... but you really made the point, getting aero is important. Being one of the only people racing gravel with drop-bars on a fatbike, I'm regularly on the the podium for fatbike categories, and frequently beat riders on new CF gravel bikes to the finish.
I raced on Continental RaceKing Protects in 27.5x2.2 for Unbound XL, Rockstar 250, and Gravel Worlds 300. Everyone was so shocked, but I was at the front end of all of those races and was happy
Cool this is what I was thinking about too but saw it wasn’t as common setup, is it?
Dylan, maybe a summury about your preparations to the season (zone 2, HIT and weight/gym trainging and so on..) and a conclusion what did work for you what did not and what would you change for the upcomming 2023🙏🙌🏻
btw thanks for awesome content/knowledge❗️
Great video as always. I just shared it to my Facebook page.
Pleasure to meet you. Good luck at the big sugar race!
Very Good content here D. One of the best I’ve seen of yours especially with Backwards Hat D.
Great content as always Dylan! 🤩🙌
This is good stuff! This chanel should be much bigger!
Thanks for the "Performance Shamimg"!!!! 🚲🚲🚲🚲🚲🚲
1:45 This was a very surprising result to me. Good stuff!
if i was a bike company i'd only make 2 dropbar disc bikes:
one would be aero, racing optimized with clearance for ~40mm (as measured, not the conservative estimate)
one would be endurance with clearance for 45mm and more
i think those two would fit 99% of riders
1. why drops better than hoods? tests (even implied in your vids) show low forearm frontal area (hoods) faster than drops 2. wider tyre rolling resistance: N=1 experience (on an interval - 100s of repeats on the downhill); it's the profile that matters - GK knobbly significantly slower at higher speeds (downhill) than visibly more aero Pathfinder Pros at same size
Progress is sublime. 😎
Possibly your best video yet
Listening to this while on my Schwinn beach cruiser
To better answer the question of WHY the aerodynamics give you a better advantage at relatively lower speeds, we could observe a basic air drag model and see that air drag is directly prepositional to the drag coefficient ( aerodynamic efficient), but is proportional to the SQUARE of velocity. So overall velocity will always have a greater impact on how much resistive force is experienced and as Dylan pointed out, compounded over time that will result in greater time gains at lower speeds.
Only a couple of mins in but one of the other considerations is you are more likely to be in the wind/not in a peloton in a gravel race. So despite a lower speed the effective wind speed is higher
Hi Dylan! Absolutely love your content. I learned a lot from it, and it's safe to say all the provided knowledge has increased my performance and fun on the bike. However, what really caught my attention in this video was that you run bigger chainrings in the front. I already upgraded my bigger chainring from 46 to 48 (GRX) about 10k ago and really felt the difference. Since my next drivetrain maintenance is fast approaching, I already had a look into the compatibility of the GRX groupset with a Shimano road crankset. Unfortunately it seems there is next to no information available, apart from GRX (47mm) and road groupsets (43/44mm) having different chainlines. Would appreciate a lot if you leave a short comment about how you went about installing bigger chainrings. Best regards from the flatlands of Northern Germany
Love this full blown nerd fest!! No hipster purest nonsense, just performance driven facts 👍👍👍
I see body position as being a major improvement in aerodynamics, but hoods, cables, etc., I see being in the realm of the "aero-weanie". (close cousin to the "weight-weanie")
awesome summary, I switched to an aero gravel bike this year (3T Exploro Racemax) !00% agree with everything you said!
Changing flavors on the Hyper Gain Beast Mode Mass Gainer Raw Edition enabled me to sit up on the bike during 100 mile races and come in 2 mph faster than the full aero race position.
Best video my man. I appreciate these informational videos
Yeah, I’m trying to find a way to fit my Stache wheels and tires onto my Tarmac, should be lightning fast :)
Above all 4 things you mentioned is positioning. You can do quite a bit just by optimizing your bike size & fit. It's also better to have a slightly less aero position that you can hold for 4 hours straight, rather than having a super aero position in the drops that you can only hold for 5 minutes, and then you end up riding with straight arms on the hoods all race.
I like the aero gravel bike option, since IF I ever can afford to buy a new, crunchy carbon, disc braked, fully hidden/'integrated' cable/brake lines wonder, I can buy ONE bike to ride on both the roads AND the canal tow paths around here (with just a wheel/tire change, of course).
I do not like the 'MTB with drop bars' stance of some of the 'sliding the back wheel around downhill gravel/trail turns' current gravel bikes, and would rather skew my priority to a fast road bike (albeit not 'race' geometry) which has the wheel/tire clearance to be ridden on gravel paths.
I care about marginal gains because going slightly faster makes the suffering slightly shorter. Ive got the *other* aero gravel bike from 3t and it forced me to sell my endurance road bike because it was slower and less comfortable.
You should get a regular aero bike and slap on gravel tires and gearsets onto it.
Madone, aeron, supersix, venge vias, felt ar are the fastest frames with the lowest watts.
I don't care that much either but it is helpful when I make decisions on the new Giant Revolt purchase regarding wheel and tire choices. I ride on pavement and light gravel. Retiring in 2 years and rides will increase.
On a recent "The Gravel Ride" podcast Josh P. Claimed that just aero drop bars can save up to 28-30 watts at wind tunnel speeds. I believe if I'm correct that speed is usually 30mph. While I normally travel at half that speed, I am now shopping for an aero drop bar. And my rationale is actually less about the watts I might save (I'm on a steel non-aero frame with exposed cable), and more about the comfort of the wing shaped bar tops. Interesting stuff here. Nice video Dylan!
they are so comfortable man
Yeah, I kind of wish that those were a possibility in alloy, and NOT exclusively carbon, but eventually I might get them anyway in the crunchy stuff to try and alleviate my 'cyclist's palsy' (and yeah, they look cool as well!).
Josh also claimed that the 'nest' of cables coming out of the bars in the middle, under the stem (like I currently have on my now very 'old school' frame and setup), is decidedly and measurably UN-aero, and DOES actually cost cdA watts, just like Dylan explained above.
So, sadly, whatever infinitesimal 'gains' I might get from the NACA shaped bar tops will be negated by those exposed cables.
@@Fordworldrallyfan since I do not run electronic shifting, I to have cables that will cause aerodynamic disadvantage. Honestly, The main reason I would get a flat top arrow style handlebar is for the possible comfort factor. It does make a lot of sense that a wide flat top will be more comfortable in your palms.
Super interesting suff! I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts in a future vid on Jonas Vingegaard's bike having a 1x drivetrain, both last year and this year.
"Aerodynamics makes some sort of small difference at all speeds, even very slow ones"
/proceeds to show a clip of Dylan motoring along comfortably at a pace I could handle for 73 whole seconds before giving up biking/
Just got an aero handlebar for gravel bike, (not aero bars) aero sleeves aero socks aero helmet and an aero food box. I do have aero bottles but they don’t carry enough water for gravel race distances.
I’m also going to go change my road tires and let some air out now too.
Have to say, you’ve come a long ways from your original clip on tri bars bought from Amazon.
Factor bikes for the win. Nice set up Dylan.
Great Vid Dylan, I always enjoy them with the comedy inserts. Yeah your right on all the points you make. I own a Diverge which only has tiagara parts and it still weights the same as all the pro models. I have fun with my bike and do gravel close by me. It was hard finding ng the sweet spot for n my tire pressure for my pathfinder so 38. I finally settled on 35 front n 37 on back tire on size 38’s.
Thanks for sharing your setup!
Yeah, but what if you get up to speed in the drops then move to the hoods but keeping your same profile. A friend said I’m hard to draft cuz I ride the drops but I’m not. I look at the shadows of our peloton and my arms are bent not locked. Best aero advantage gains is our own bodies
it just looks so good
Are fully internal cables necessary in gravel? Yes, on a bare bike, they are much more aero, but a gravel bike usually has a top tube bag.
Every gravel race I’ve ever done requires a big giant number plate across the front.
Between those two, couldn’t the cables be hidden form the wind there, and just have normal, in the frame routing for the rest?
In fact, since it’s not UCI stuff, you could make small fairings easily enough to shield the cable and make the fin of the bike more aero, while still being able to remove them for service.
in case of running a 45mm tire, would you rather recommend a shallow low weight rim or a aero rim but heavier?
Interesting question! I would guess that if one were going for aero gains, than a deeper rim? But if the width of the tire would defeat the aero advantage of the rim, than perhaps the lighter (shallow) is the way to go?
@@justinofboulder sounds logic but where lies the treshhold when the width of the tire defeats the aero advantage? Most rims outer width is maximum 30mm. So is the aero advantage defeated by a 45mm tire? maybe we need new aero wide width aero wheels before they make any sense on gravel bikes. I would never go below 45mm.
That's funny where I had the same thought pedaling in the mid range of a cassette is more efficient . The only difference I went to a smaller front single chainring to match up to my 12 speed pie plate in the rear as I ride more technical MTB trails and mostly not getting those higher speeds . The smaller ring keeps me in that mid range for a majority of the ride . I do think 2 by systems with smaller cassettes are more efficient than the single rings and the pie plates on the rear
I converted from a 1X setup to a 2X setup. I mostly ride paved roads, dirt roads, and gravle so i have no need for a 1X's chain drop resistance anyway.
I love that it’s possible to have aero bars on those handlebars, they would be even better if they would allow separate adjustments of width and reach
How about comfort? Would having a rear suspension like for example the Berria Belador, the Cannondale topstone, or the moots Softail gravel bike help you stay "fresher" through long rides outweigh any aero gains a gravel bikes would have (considering that all other things remain equal)? Or would a more flexible seatpost be better than the complexity of frame suspension. Like for example the ergon flex posts.
Concerning aerodynamics I think that the rider position is the biggest factor and if some sort of suspension or flex aids in keeping that aero position for longer than that's better in the long run.
I’m always here for more gcn bashing
I watch all your videos. After 34 years of cycling there’s still more to learn. Many thanks and… where/how can I buy a Factor bike?
Aero Gravel - The Future is now, old man! :) Great video! What's the size of these pirelli tires?
This bike clicks some boxes for me vs. my current rig: slightly longer reach, lower BB, and of course attention paid to aero gains. But I cannot stomach the price. I just cannot see the "value" in frame sets which are over $5K, when there are many just as good frames (in terms of quality of carbon construction) at sub $4K prices. It seems that many brands which come form the road side set their pricing based on name "prestige" rather than any real advantage in the actual construction quality of the frame. Considering that most of these frames in one of a few Asian builders, the price differences appear very difficult to justify.
Great video as always
In the last video within this video you're not wearing an aero helmet ???
Does that change when you race? How about raceway gear? Speedsuit?
Is there a video coming ?
Cheers, love your content!
I'm just being pedantic here, but aerodynamics does not matter exponentially more as your speed increases (as you say at 0:50). Drag is proportional to velocity squared, so the relationship is only polynomial, not exponential.
Great video. I love it that you speak your mind and use the equipment that makes the most sense.
A question - Your seat is slammed all the way forward. I wondered what your saddle seat back is?
Watch that seatpost wedge. Hearing a lot of people slightly reshaping it for more surface contact with seatpost.
I don't like Aero Bars. Use Specialized S Work for a few years took it off and pun on FSA-Force Light Nano and love it because of the easier adjustability. For me on the hood and the drop make only 2kmh difference. For long ride and races comfort is very important for me rather than fighting with my bike I rather choose comfort.
I'm glad Factor makes this bike, because there is no reason a gravel bike shouldn't be aero, and there's little reason an aero bike can't have clearance for wide tires. There's no reason you should need to buy three or four bikes!
Awesome video - do you still love this bike? I’m thinking of the Ostro as next bike vs upgrading to the new Crux - your thoughts are much appreciated and of course the community’s
3T exploro has been out for some years, probably the first aero gravel
I got a Ventum GS1 this year. Seems to be the best value in Aero Gravel by a wide margin.
Yes great video, I do get a lil board of the white paper. I’ll just take you at your word 😄. I don’t care much for gravel, but now I feel like I need to care more about it on my road bike!
Late to the comments party but I just don't understand how he can make the geometry of the bike work for both the aero position and the upright riding position. He's not using a noseless saddle, yet he doesn't seem to die from perineal pain, which is what I do. I assume the general assumption is still that the aero position consists of a higher, more forward saddle with anterior pelvic tilt (increasing pressure on the perineum), whereas riding on the hoods would mean moving the saddle back, a little lower and less forward tilt.
Ostro Gravel vs Ostro Road with same tires. This could make the case for a one bike does it all. Crit/Climb/Gravel.
Having been in several races with people using aerobars, I don't have a problem with them existing, even in the race. The problem is that you get a lot of people using them while in a group. This puts everyone next to, and behind that person, at risk. Classic example of why we can't have nice things...
Great video once again. Great learning 4 me. Thx.
You should question your assumptions more. First assumption is that actual exertion and heart rate remain the same for a given power on the hoods or in the drops.
Which is why you have to ride with aero bars for a while to mitigate that difference
That's an impressive assembly of tech applications, Dylan, thanks for telling us all about them. And my thought on aero bars for gravel is just that they look really lame, like gravel racers are really wishing they were catching rays en route to a personal best in swimsuits in Hawaii and that only works in Kona. And if gravel is supposed to have an outlaw spirit, why not bring back the Spinaci bars? Those are cool with cred for getting banned by the UCI.
As far as I'm concerned, unless one is riding a TT on a road bike, vs. a dedicated TT/tri bike (and ONLY then), TT/tri 'extensions' are "lame" on a road bike, for general road riding/training.
@@Fordworldrallyfan I'm right there with you, all TT jive is fine for TTs but otherwise it is lame and now it seems they're trying to impose one-piece outfits on roadies as we saw in Le Tour with Wout, I think it was, and I contend the jersey/shorts combo will always be cycling fashion at its zenith. So yeah, not a fan of all the TT imposition on other disciplines, but hey, I still think banana seats are cool, no need for all these 26" cruiser bikes to only sport ten-speed seats like it is 1974 in California and all the kids are changing stuff on their Sting-Rays for BMX races. And I never took the bait, the banana seat and those high-rise bars were the only reason I could comfortable ride my Sting-Ray into my early teens when that bike was the only game in town for riding everywhere in Pacifica. 😀
With you on the aero bars but about 5 years ago I put my old Spinaci bars on my roadie and got used to them doing longish rides, after about 6 months I took them off for a race and discovered I didn't need them and now ride in pretty much the same position (puppy paws) most of the time.
@@gregmorrison7320 Thanks for sharing your experience and I, too, had a set of those bars and enjoyed using them for a time and I liked how adjustable they were. And it just seems a low-key or minimalist solution, like those bars or something which supports puppy paws, would better fit gravel than full-on big-buck TT bars from road and track and triathlon.
@@robbchastain3036 STILL agree, but, I can see Dylan's point about RACING with them on gravel, since he is a pro, and must show results in order to keep being supported/employed by the sponsors.
He absolutely NEEDS ALL of those 'marginal gains' he can get!
But yeah, the gravel racing peeps had better try their damndest to keep the UCI from taking control over their whole sport, everywhere, since those bars will be banned as 'illegal equipment' by them in any mass start type event.
As far as Dylan's point about aero has some helping effects at any speed, he forgot to mention that it helps immensely in strong block headwinds, as the more aero one can get fighting those brutal 'walls' of air, the more exponential the watts saved.
I still cannot understand HOW (OK, besides the EPO that every cynical clown is going to bring up now) the pro peloton can ride at 30 MPH+ into 20 MPH+ headwinds, even with frequent changes at the front of the bunch!?!
Their wattage must be off of the charts while doing this.
where..? might someone find those handlebars + integrated aero?" I'm definitely looking for the cleanest way to add some aero bars to my cockpit without screwing up the carbon bars or having to swap to some alloy. that is sooooooo clean.
What would be a good 50/50 road/gravel bike under $3000? No competition, but 200 mile rides and occational "credit card" bike packing.
could you make a similar video for MTBs, very cool content
Appreciate the insights
Dylan, what are the major differences between the Ostro Gravel and the LS?
I find the mention of the tire pressures unnecessary because smaller width tires require the higher pressures to maintain the same tension
its very much what works for you, I race a winter gravel series on forest trails on my road bike, with 28mm Durano DDs so a solid road tyre pumped up to around 95psi, always gives me a definite advantage especially on the climb sections over gravel/mountain type bikes, I usually have a top 5 finish, but would I recommend that set up for anyone else ?
factor needs to update (steepen) their seat tubes angle!
Serious question: Why are people using bottles instead of packs? There's no way a dual bottle cage is "more aero" than a USWE pack... Not sure if this has been wind tunnel tested, but since we're nit-picking, this would be a good thing to test.
Is there a link to the AeroBAR extensions I can't seem to find them?
What is theory behind pushing the saddle that forward? Is it to get more over the top of the pedals?
When used as intended, a forward saddle position allows the rider to get lower on the front without impinging the hips with too tight a hip angle if they have the flexibility and core muscles to support the position. You may notice a slight saddle tilt forward on these setups since the riders whole body rotates. It aids with aero bar positioning and emulates a steep seat tube angle like found on a TT bike. The downside is more pressure on the hands as they support more body weight and potentially some minor handling consequence as the F/R balance trends forwards. Some riders slam the saddle forward if their bike to too big or their stem is too long.
enjoyed very much, thanks.
I see you have GRX with SRAM crank arms/power meter. I have read that the SRAM width is slightly diff from GRX. Have you noticed any alignment issues? Maybe my internet source was wrong.
I have GRX 810 with Garmin power pedals. I have not been impressed with the garmin pedals and I need shorter crank arms. Thinking about doing the mixed set up that you have. I have a mixed setup on my road bike and it works great.