For the young crowd that might not have been riding in the 80s and 90s , American John Tomac won world championships in both XC and Downhill and raced a drop bar mountain bike several times . He did win some UCI world cup races in both XC and Downhill using this setup !
That Yeti was the ARC with carbon top and down tubes IIRC. There's a TH-cam video out there about the bike being given to JT. Yeti C-26 they called it.
@@bestretirementever7931 Yes I have seen it . I own a Limited production John Tomac Raleigh Titanium mountain bike 1994 all orginal . They were hand made in England . I was a big fan .
I raced Leadville in 2008 and came to the same conclusion. I even bought and build up a rigid, drop-bar MTB. Unfortunately starting a small business curtailed my endurance career, but the bike proved fast on some local 100-mile race courses, and was comfortable and capable on long gravel road rides.
I ride a rigid dropbar based on mtb frame with 29 in wheels (and 2.35) tires, with a 2x and a mix of mtb and road / cyclocross parts and from all the bikes I have it is my favourite one.. The only issue I have is that all MTB frames are suspension corrected...
@@jasonmusgrave5029 yes Tomac was the first but I feel like Zabriski brought it back in the more recent modern era and even then it took time to catch on until the industry realized they could profit from it.
My favorite thing about bicycles is figuring out how you want to ride, and finding what works for you. More fidelity in the bike spectrum is a good thing. We can't all own 20 slightly different bikes but, at least we can mix and match from a broad pool of options to suit our own needs. More is better in the bike world.
You're letting the secret out! SHHHhhhhhhhhh....I've been running a Salsa Fargo Ti with a Stepcast 34 fork for a few years and it's very fast. I raced Lost and Found last year and changed my bike choice last minute from my Niner RLT w/ 45c Terra Speeds to Fargo with 100mm fork and dropper post on 2.2 Race Kings. I ended up getting 1st in my age group after flatting and crashing. The dropbar mountain bike was so much faster and comfortable. I was the only one in the front group that was on a 'mountain bike'. Out of 1,000 riders I pulled a top 10 downhill time with ease and had a great time on that descent. Most other guys were cursing, walking, etc.
Awesome ride! I recently built a Cotic Cascade frame into a drop bar MTB with GRX 820 levers, a Ritchey 52 cm Beacon XL bars, SLX crankset/cassette/brake calipers, a Fox stepcast 34 fork (120 mm), oneplus V2 120 mm dropper, and Vittoria Barzo (F) and Mezcal (R) tires. This thing is a true all-terrain bike (ATB) and a total beast - it eats gravel up for breakfast and takes on rocky Colorado blue MTB trails for dinner and dessert. Rough downhills are a blast, getting nice and low in the drops I can descend much faster than on my XC bike. Yet it rides surprisingly sprightly on roads and groomed paths, only a little slower than my Trek Checkpoint (which is really a robust road bike with wider tires). I've yet to do any touring but it's been a great companion for 100+ km rides on mixed surfaces. It's certainly not an expert at anything, and it's the weight of a mid-range alloy hardtail. But this ATB is super-versatile and fun to ride anywhere. Plus it's so very comfortable and reassuring with the steel frame and fork.
I can appreciate your point of view. My Gravel bike is a 100/100mm travel full-sus XC mountain bike with fast-rolling 700x43 Gravel tires. Fast on pavement and gravel yet still capable on single track. Most important, very comfortable and easy on the body.
@@ChrisBHavenI live in the mountains of Colorado, so all my rides are high altitude and steep. If I lived someplace flatter and lower altitude, I would put on a larger 34 tooth chainring. I only spin out on the straight steep paved roads when I hit 25+ mph. Once I get going that fast, I don't care that I've spun out. Ultimately, it's so easy to put on a new chainring with 1x drivetrains. I would just put on the largest chainring that still leaves you with an adequate climbing gear for where you ride and not worry about the top end.
Nice video. My hardtail (with 2.3 Ikons, flat handlebar, a 100mm fork and a seat dropper) is my gravel bike now. What I have noticed when riding doing "gravel" rides with my friends (on Lauf Siglas with 20mm of travel and 42 mm tires) is as follows: - Single track or any semi-technical descents: I run away and hide - non-technical gravel or flowy (flat) singletrack: relatively similar performance - road: they run away and hide Given all of this, I am with you...use a HT MTB. I haven't gone so far as to put a drop bar on, but for what you are doing and how you are competing, seems like the right call.
Fantastic video/content as always. Love the statement regarding "people who look at tyre tread as the sole determiner for speed know nothing about rolling resistance". Been saying this for years - feeling particularly validated!
100% agree. The gravel market has very quickly grown in all directions and there needs to be sub categories to help the customers understand what they're buying. I get people coming to my shop saying "I bought this gravel bike because my friend said that gravel bikes are very comfortable on the road" and they've got something on the more gravely end of the gravel spectrum. Bikes are a spectrum, from endurance road bikes that can take 38c tires to Grountain bikes. It's 2023, bike category fluidity is the name of the game. Bring them all on and have fun.
Dylan, Really appreciate the insight on this topic. Although I don’t race anymore and just enjoy the love for cycling, I also have a passion for keeping myself informed on what’s new and how cycling has evolved. This is my way to give back to the sport, helping new riders or those that may be thinking of getting into the sport. There is so much more information these days compared to when I was racing. Thanks a bunch.
I used to ride MTB in the early 90s and I didn't know what a gravel bike was until an hour ago. Something came into my TH-cam feed about gravel bikes and I ended up here. My first thought when I saw people riding on the brake hoods of a gravel bike was how similar the riding position is on these gravel bikes to the 90s MTB, with a high seat, low bars and the obligatory Onza bar ends. Seems we've come full circle.
Monstercross was the phrase we used in the 2010's. I have fond memories of my titanium MCX rig with 2.4" meats, a Lauf MTB fork, short stem, and drop bars. You could save 500g and likely some CdA if you went with an old Lauf, but might lose speed (and a really good sponsor) in technical corners.
@@HkFinn83 Yeah, I think wheel size was flexible but very wide tires and drop bars were the main criteria. It was a maze of compatibility between road and MTB components, brake cable pull ratios and mounting standards, and axle styles at that time too. It's all quite settled now, and for the better.
A company has been rocking the frankenbike from their factory for a while! It's called the Lauf Seigla - 2.25 tire clearance with 700c rims, suspension fork (not a MTB suspension), XC MTB geometry (mostly), drop bars (a very compliant one at that), UDH, 1x only, 17-18lbs!!! They also sell the entry level version, which has electronic XPLR, for $3500 (ish). Bought one, it's fast. I think you could objectively say it covers the MTB end of the gravel spectrum quite well but I'd love to see more data on the other end of the spectrum - aero gains or losses.
It’s so refreshing to listen to an intelligent person discuss this subject. You totally get it. I would add that while tire casings do indeed play a huge role in roll resistance, it’s fairly difficult to determine how soft your casing is. TPI is the only factor I’m aware of and often you don’t have options there. Durometer of the rubber is key too and again is not often known but what is in your face obvious is the tread pattern and there are a lot of them that are clearly slow. When you can feel and hear the vibrations when on pavement you know you have a slow one. In any case almost all high end race mtb tires (ie low profile mtb tires) will be low resistance and perfect for gnarly gravel races. PS: I would argue the Salsa Cutthroat is a drop bar mtb. It’s not designed for racing but you could if you swamp out for some lighter parts. Thanks again, great video and keep up the good work.
The Salsa Cutthroat also has MTB Boost spacing hubs and axles. I think that definitely puts it into MTB since every replacement components for those will be MTB components
I like this! I was a bicycle courier in Stockholm for 5 years and developed over time what I think was the fastest courier bike for that city. It was a Frankenstein betweena roadbike and a mountainbike. I also worked in a high end bikestore at the same time so I got to hear allabout the latest in biking...
That dropper lever is cool, haven’t noticed that on this bike before. Agree with you that they need more categories of gravel bikes. It will happen. For me, I would like just an aero road bike w clearance for 40-42s. But there are absolutely needs for bike packing gravel bikes, more single track capable gravel bikes, etc..
Hey the old ladies are on electric beach cruisers now. It's fun watching them zoom past you on an uphill you've been struggling with for a while :D Shopping bags swinging in the air, bolt upright in their pink fleece overcoats. You go old lady!
I love the look of your bike. Some full suspension bike are just light as a hardtail. Why don't you try one? A full suspension drop bar bike will look awesome I think. :)
Thank You for making this video. I don't understand why Gravel/Road bike cost so much without much if any innovation. An entry Roadbike (Specialized Allez) now cost $1200 because it has a mechanical disc brake, my $228 Walmart mtb has Bigger disc brake, Bigger tires. As a City rider, I don't need a mtb (but) I don't see any advantage wasting $1200 that don't offer much in capacity
Been riding a 40mm Rudy fork for a year now. 45-47c mostly. Faster everywhere, not going back. Won my age group at Unbound 200, Rock Cobbler, BWR CA, etc. It works.
@@stanion9258 Checkpoint SLR. Some new gravel frames are being built to be suspension fork compatible. Look for a really tall OEM Fork that has a lot of gap between the tire and the down tube. I gained only 10mm of axle to crown distance so almost no geo change. 1.1lb gain over OEM fork. Game changer for me.
Being an MTB rider since the early years. I totally agree with you. A FS MTB well tuned is the most fun of all and less fatigue for body. A hardtail MTB will give you wins. I see so many people now converting old mtbs to drop bars and having a blast. Most old 26”er will also easily take 650B wheels
You remind me of rally teams gathering all kinds of resources to set a shorter time record-you're the team engineer, technician, and the driver itself. Your content has humor, scientific support, and gave me ideas for my next build. I'm still new to professional cycling, and I thought a lot of industry trends were just marketing and consumerism. We should all rig our bikes to our own personal needs. Btw your bike looks like a beast!!!
I must say - I FULLY AGREE with you. I have full-sus MTB (XC Scott Spark) and gravel Canyon Grizl TRIAL with sus-fork (also road bikes for training). It's so obvious that grip & comfort are purely speed.
I think the big problem is this: people think suspension is about comfort because their only experience with it is a walmart BSO with a coil fork - in reality, suspension provides increased traction and control and can make a huge difference
Really great video! I've been riding and racing off and on since the early 90s...and didn't know anything about rolling resistance haha. Thanks for the great, informative videos and please keep up with the humor.
Raced gravel for years on a 2011 Cannondale Scalpel with aero bars. About as light as a high end gravel bike. 2014 finished 23rd overall in the Dirty Kanza 200 running 1.9" Schwalbe Thunder Burts. Just purchased a 2024 Trek Super Caliber which will replace the Scalpel. I'm all in on larger tires, and most importantly, suspension.
Drop bar mounting bikes are awesome. Period. And even though it seems like a lot of the video makes it seem like it’s something that was never done I use to love watching Tomac win world championships many years ago doing this.
Your videos are great. there’s so much bad content on cycling. GCN should hire you as the president and have you completely restructure their content. It’s so nice to watch a TH-cam video on cycling that actually has something to say and something to teach.
I can't believe that the industry still doesn't make hardtail drop bar mt bikes. I made mine four or five years ago, before Sram Axis or Shimano GRX. The only disadvantage is the narrower bars when in certain mt bike situations. Drop bar hardtails are the coolest bikes.
Concerning tires: Its a little tricky to do, but i tried having deflated (!) Tubes within my tubeless tires with two (!) Stems. Just mount the tube within the tubeless tire and suck out as much air as possible from it. Then inflate the tire via the other stem as usual and booooom, you do not have to insert a tube if you get a puncture and just need to inflate the tube
From a non-elite, non-racer the bike 90% of people need is fully rigid flat bar 29” wheeled mountain bike. And two sets of tires. Well analyzed and presented!
Yeah but flat bars hurt my arms. Rotate your hands. To the outside and to inside. Flat bars have your muscles in your forearm twisted to the inside to the limit. Riding the hoods or the drops of a drop bar have your hands in the middle of the range of motion of your hand. This is the most relaxed your forearm muscles can be. This is why people ride drop bars. Comfort over long distance. You might feel more comfortable using flat bars and I get it. I have flat bars on my FS CC bike it’s that bike I jump most and wide flat bars feel good in the air. But wide drop bars actually feel fine to me too and as someone who did their first 100 mile day as a 13 year old in 1985 on a road bike. And who raced track for years. Drop bars are my comfort zone. So I’m biased. I have converted most of my MT bikes to drop bars over the years but still have two MT bikes with flat bars currently so. Use what makes you feel most comfortable. Because in my experience feeling relaxed is what will save your life when trails or road conditions get tricky. So stay relaxed, ride what feels good and stay safe. Godspeed everyone
@@bryanzimmerman8646 It’s all about the sweep. Grab two sticks and relax your wrists. Measure the angle between them. Mine is 15*. Some people it’s 0*, some 50*. Don’t let fads or friends dictate what you ride!
DH-Enduro-Trail-XC-Monstercross-Trekking-Gravel-CX-Allroad-Touring-Endurance-Road-Track-Fixie-BMX-Slopestyle. It's the circle of bikes and it moves us all.
Cool video. I was looking at buying a gravel bike and i instead converted my 2103 Ti Kona MTB to a gravel bike and love it. I don't know that I'll need a gravel bike now.
I can see dropbar MTB's taking over. They'll probably be the only ones to fully embrace the 2x system so they have gears for the road as well as the mountain for all those mixed terrain races. Tires like the maxxis ardent race have a good mix of tread as well. Not so sure about the compound but for one race it'll hold up.
I have just converted my hard tail trek into a drop bar MTB and my flat terrain sustainable top speed has increased from 16 mph to 20 mph with the same pedalling effort. I really appreciate this video coz it confirms I am not weird after all😂 My gravel bike is not as comfy and enjoyable as my dropbar MTB.
Dylan i totally agree with you with needing a range of gravel bikes. I'm currently running a hardtail (with flat bars) with 2.2 conti race king tyres and i had a huge advantage over gravel bikes due to better handling in my last race and didn't seem to lose much if anything at all in the road and fast gravel sections Especially in a group. Coming from a mountain bike background I was shocked to watch gravel bikes wash out in slightest of corners. I'm currently developing an aero flat bar design with forearm rests that i think will make my hardtail even better with the handling of a aggressive hardtail and aero body position of a time trial rider. Albeit with a different hand position.
There's a reason half the field of the tour divide is on Salsa Cutthroats, and everyone who tried to race it on a traditional gravel bike this year has horror stories about it.
@@brentcollins9727because the ass end of a road bike is gonna be miserable on a trail ride, the cutthroat splits the difference, road bike position with a super short rear end, and super slack front end, the more exaggerated version of a cutthroat is a Chamois Hagar from evil, that bike is legit Enduro bike capable, just slowly, and a fire road monster on a down hill.
What an awesome take on gravel/xcmtb. I love anyone that thinks outside of the box and chooses to go their own way instead of the mainstream. Even if that way is the mainstream, but at least the decision was made with careful consideration rather than just a feeling :)
I sold my gravel bike, bought a hardtail and am now realising how fast the thing is, especially in combination with really fast running tires. Other than you, I race ultra long distances, where aero bars are allowed. A hardtail with fast rolling tires and aero bars is an absolute weapon and so much more comfortable than a gravel bike on rougher stuff.
Im just getting into biking as an adult (39) my step dad had a trek remedy 7 up for grabs, so grab I did! I broke my back, so walking can get painful on my sciatic nerve. Im so happy riding leaves me unaffected! Im only riding on flat pavement getting my legs and body in order (i gained like 50lbs on bedrest). I'm up to a 26 mile ride, 14mph avg, trying to keep my cadence over 80. Im embracing the sore legs and arse. I really want a gravel bike, mostly because I love the efficiency of a road bike, but grew up on the wild side, and need to be able to send it or get loose. My mtb tames things so much I can ride no hands on the grass with confidence. Im currently setting goals and breaking them. My next goal is 30 miles, then 40, then 50. I may decide after 40 to get into more diverse terrain, right now hills are the enemy! My ass is the worst part, im using dakine padded undies. Im considering a new seat, the ergon SM Pro has been recomended by a few sources, as well as ergons own fit guide. I think its my next purchase. Its either that or the Paco Rabbane Phantom parfum (cologne) ive been looking @
I never had a gravel bike. Instead of buying one Ive done such conversion from my old Kellys Quartz. Added drop bar, changed fork for a lighter version with shorter travel, very old RockShox, some elements replaced with carbon ones and it lost ~3kg. Now riding it gives so much fun, my dream bike from the old days.
First time, the algorithm popped a video of you in my feed, but I totally think this added value. Simply the point of choosing the fastest bike the race will allow is what every rider - for their style - should be looking for. And in that case you're right, bikes should handle their area of expertise the best and not all areas. But I bought a Canyon Grizl last year to fit all of my needs. It is my only bike and the only I will get. I'm riding it to work, much on road with road rides only, but I'm although riding in mountain bike terrain and in very rough trails with everything except big jumps. And on the next holiday I will ride it for a bike packing tour with friends for 5 days. So I'm glad that there is a bike like this for me, that fits all my needs. 🙂 But like I said - great video, thank you.
I recently build a new class of bikes. Touring Frame, Downhill size brakes and a time trial bar. Needles to say that there is even a suspension fork. This runs over all terrain.
If you're into suspension equipped, very MTB-esque drop-bar bikes, the Mason ISO is exactly that type of a "monster-gravel" or "drop-bar MTB". Its geometry is designed for 100mm suspension, even though it comes with a (very long) carbon fork and it has massive tire clearance. It's also really pretty (for a MTB-esque thing).
Good video. You make some very valid points. As you say, there are "gravel" bike races that have so much trail, or in wet conditions, a bike like this would certainly excel in one. The Overland in Vermont comes to mind. There are a few others in the northeast which are notorious for rocks and techy sections as well.
I've been gravel for 30 years, it used to be called trekking....currently I ride a CC Hardtail 29'....only modification, narrow gravel tires and a carbon fork with eyelets, 1x12 (36 x 11/51)... and it works great.
Hey Dylan, wow, what a really insightful and performance-first take on drop-bar MTBs! One small consideration is the adoption of suspension corrected geometry by bike manufacturers for gravel bikes... think early MTB era when front suspension forks were just beginning to be used and suspension corrected MTB frames started. Currently there are a small handful of gravel bike companies that are leaning ahead and incorporating these design standards to better accommodate folks who want to put a gravel specific suspension fork on their frame. Salsa happened to be one of the first modern bike companies to have suspension corrected frames, several other manufacturers are rolling their updated frames out too. The new Santa Cruz Stigmata for one. Food for thought, but a gravel bike with suspension corrected geo and 700x50s just might do the trick too for some race courses. That all said, I personally dig riding my recently built drop-bar Ritchey Ultra--it's a long distance ripper!
My steel hardtail is comfortable, has great gearing, and is capable when the roads get nasty. And… I don’t race, so who cares about the speed lost. I can ride all day, get up again tomorrow and feel spry. My friends who are a “geeked” out have bikes worth 10x mine and there isn’t much lost. Riding an xc bike should be looked at by more people.
As someone that lives in Kansas, I would say a drop bar gravel bike is definitely the most efficient bike for getting around out here... but I completely agree with the need to have a more rowdy gravel bike. The only thing I would change about my bike is the ability to run mtb tires.
Been riding for a while and i used to ride an old Raleigh with 700 wheels and big tires and a flat bar. It was considered a Frankenstein but it worked. Seems like a gravel bike to me and it reminds me of older bikes. Keep riding and honestly who cares about labels.
Brands should just use their xc race hardtail frames and build them with gravel gearing and component selections. I think the XC Race hardtail category is becoming less and less enticing with full suspension xc race bikes becoming so good. That category should morph into what you’re talking about. Offer them with flat bar specs and gravel specs. Maybe add some mounting or storage and you’re cooking with gas!
And we've come full circle! 🙌 Thank you so much, the bike world has caught up with common sense when we said "why it's just a mountain bike with drop bars..." like 12 years ago
We were riding drop bar mountain bikes in the eighties when a lot of mountain biking looked like what is now called gravel biking. Whoa, the circle is going round and round. Those 40 mm travel gravel forks have the same travel as my first Rock Shox Quadra albeit more refined.
Love that you're just after what's fastest for you. Have a few bikes to choose from (carbon crux, fully rigid hardtail and full susps) and riding the same greenway/gravel/light trail route I'm actually faster on an older Jet9 (80mm of rear travel and 100mm fork with lockout) with fast rolling gravel tires. And the ride is more fun and more comfortable, so I'm less fatigued. Need to try it with drop bars.
Was looking at buying a gravel bike a few years back as it seemed to be the cool thing to do. I opted for converting my old Gary Fisher hardtail to a drop bar and converted from 3x to 2x as I only had a spare pair of 105 shifters... they were cable too so had to down grade to cable pull disks. ( one lucky win was that the pull ratio for 105 10 speed is exactly the same as 9 sp deore so could go up to a 10 speed cassette and didnt need a new rear mech) Anyway, it's only on 26.5's so proper old school. Struggles a bit on tarmac, so sit in the draft, but like a lot of places here in the UK the gravel quickly becomes quite narely and a lot of technical single track. Suffice to say for a couple of hundred spent, it leaves very expensive bits of kit in it's wake. Not so surprisingly many riders are now investing in front gravel shocks here. If not racing, and just enjoying gravel riding, I would definitely go for a more relaxed setup with a shock, it just gives way more scope. As you say though, it boils down to horses for courses.
Would love to see a video about knee injuries. Something like "Is cycling safe for your knees?" Currently having some issues that prevent me from racing
As a casual rider with no interest in racing I knew this video would only marginally apply to me, but was curious to hear your perspective. Interesting for sure. I personally have a flat bar gravel bike, which is really just a XC hardtail with skinner/slicker tires, Innerbarends and a bag, but still flat bars and a full 150mm dropper (I originally road rigid post but the full dropper works better for me since like to ride pavement to get to single track). One thing I’ll sort of disagree on is when you (admittedly said it was an elitist racing opinion) said having very specialized equipment for the need. And while I agree there is a time and place for that, probably 95%+ if riders aren’t racing and I’d rather have something a bit more versatile. Something like the new Pace RC429. Also, maybe since I grew up mountain biking and didn’t have a road bike until my late 20s, I have have never found drop bars remotely comfortable, not sure how anyone rides in them more than a few miles.
About 15 years ago I ran a Cannondale scalpel 26er with 650Bs and drop bars. Absolutely awesome as a gravel bike but it was tough to get enough drop with a lefty stem. If I’d have solved that issues I’d still probably be riding it today .
I use a carbon version of the Surly corner bar on my hardtail sometimes. It's a nice in between drop bars and flat bars and it uses mtb style brakes and shifters so it's easy to switch back and forth.
Only 2 or 3 full-suspension and hardtails bike can achieve gravel-like geometry by changing the suspension travel(it also changes axle to crown). For example, Cube's reaction C62 needs to slightly shorten the stroke of the rear shock. By lowering the ATC of the front fork(501mm to 450-480mm), the angle of head tubes, the bbdrop and the angle of seat tube can be increased, and the STR can be reduced to 1.45-1.5, thereby meeting gravel geometry standards. But there are too few of these frames, and they are only suitable for some people. For example, these two frames will above basically have 400 reach and 600 stack after modification, so only tall people can ride them.
My gravel bike is a Marin team titanium 26” frame circa 2000. I had Dean titanium in Boulder CO add a disc brake to the rear . 700 c Focus fork and voila. Gravel bike. XTR cranks circa 1998 Dura ace brifters and xtr derailleurs and Rise 40 wheelset. This is hands down my favorite bike. Oh I also use a cane creek 2 inch travel seat post and redshift stem. This smooths out the washboard roads
Great video. I do think asking bike companies to produce more variations of bikes is a bit disconnected from the current market trend (that trend being, keeping the lights on). Instead, I like to see more races with fewer restrictions on bikes. Would love to see a peloton of FrankenBikes. The only restriction is the parts have to be commercially available to the public. Nothing custom or one off.
Most local bike shops will build out your bike however you want if you don’t have the wrenching skills (or desire, time, etc.) to do so yourself. I do think bike companies who adopt an “aftermarket” approach to supporting exactly what Dylan is showing us here by having many different possible configurations from a couple of platforms (aero, hardtail, full suspension, etc.) may likely be more successful because they capture more of that highly sought after CLV (customer lifetime value). Acknowledging and focusing in on that adaptability for all the places we go to ride or race shows that a bike company is in tune with the industry and their customers. When they plan for that during the design phase of product development then I believe they have a better chance at succeeding (outside of the marketing aspect which seems to drive much more of the consumer discretionary spending these days than actual capability). I use several different brands of bikes simply because I prefer to try things out and then swap out parts to make it work for me the way that I want. The key thing I have learned is what works for you does not apply to everyone and kudos to Dylan for documenting his relentless pursuit of speed for our edutainment!
Idea for an upcoming video: Heat adaption training. Not solely the adaption to not lose power in the heat, that you already covered, but doing workouts with elevated core body temperature (you mostly read about 38.5°C) which is said to increase blood volume and blood plasma volume as far as I know.
Agreed in all aspects. Just finishing my self build gravel bike (old carbon HT Stumpjumper) with RS Rudy (40 mm) and added a 9point8 slack r to slack the head angle. I recently bought my 3rd wheelset( one with 44 gravel tyres, one with 32 graveltyres to join my friends on their road bikes (I do have 2 S-works Tarmacs:-)) and recent bought a set for A. Dugust tubes for wet off road.
Grear video, another difference i notice as a semi pro wheel sucker is you cant get as good of a draft on a mt. bike bcause the slack headtube makes front wheel stick out. 😊
Got an old GT Transeo Ultra and it flies on gravel on 700 x 42s, air forks for unexpected bumps. It's much more forgiving. I just enjoy it all round much more.
Regarding specialization vs. generalization in bike design: from a racing perspective, you're right. From a normie, cheapskate perspective: I could spend $5-10k on a really nice do-everything bike, or $2k on a mediocre road bike, and $2k on a mediocre gravel bike, and so on, and pretty soon I've spent more money and I still don't have a single nice bike.
Hmmm good vid Bro!! Yeah a very interesting and pretty good way to set up your bike. So like I have a Cervelo R3 for road bike, specialized diverge for gravel and looking at a Cervelo mtn bike now to complete my bike collection. I think your setup is smart and gave you the great finish you had at Unbound.
Very nice bike! What's your opinion on dropbar full-sus mtb ? I race long ultradistance offroad events (1000+km multi-day races) in France and Europe, some of them pretty technical with rough sections and while hardtail dropbar mtbs can sometimes be spotted on these events, I never saw a full-sus one. However, given the last two editions of Atlas Moutain Race have been won on a full-sus, I don't see why that wouldn't work. I'm considering building such a bike based on a Trek Supercaliber, which has 110mm upfront, 80mm at the back, a lockout and is about 11kg. My goal would be to combine increased tire clearance, traction and comfort (to save energy) in the most technical parts of the race, but still get the aero advantage and most importantly comfort of the different hand positions available. Based on your experience with this setup, is this something you'd recommend or I am going too far? Thanks and greetings from France!
ten years ago people laughed at me when I wanted to add a drop bar to my XC bike. I just like the comfort of the drop bars betterr then flat bars on my tourring. And gnarly technical trails that i encounter sometimes on my trips are exhausting without suspension.
Nothing wrong in being an out of the box thinker and pushing the envelope. We need more guys like you.
Much more.
In other words, you either follow the mainstream or think of solutions to accomplish the impossible.
It's not out of the box. That's just logic the world is full of fools ❤
Been done already..90s DH races etc
The gravel bike is a marketing ploy pushed in the other direction
As a suspension technician watching gravel bikes turn into mountain bikes… I’d say you’re just ahead of the game
Enter the Canyon Grizl…
I've just bought a Surly Corner Bar copy for my hardtail mtb and i can't wait to try it out
The marketers, out of new ideas, are filling in the gaps between categories with new categories.
@@mihaichiriac480 I love this bar so far on my hardtail
@@todd92371 carbon or aluminium?
I hope your sponsors fully appreciate your media value. You do a great job featuring their products with meaningful context.
For the young crowd that might not have been riding in the 80s and 90s , American John Tomac won world championships in both XC and Downhill and raced a drop bar mountain bike several times . He did win some UCI world cup races in both XC and Downhill using this setup !
That Yeti was the ARC with carbon top and down tubes IIRC. There's a TH-cam video out there about the bike being given to JT. Yeti C-26 they called it.
@@bestretirementever7931 Yes I have seen it . I own a Limited production John Tomac Raleigh Titanium mountain bike 1994 all orginal . They were hand made in England . I was a big fan .
And he is also the reason the UCI banned dropbars from any MTB racing😂😅 Dropbarmtb is a blast on singletrack.
th-cam.com/video/8NAfcrUmQFs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=J6Vf8HUjX71YgeNu
We’ve come full circle.
I raced Leadville in 2008 and came to the same conclusion. I even bought and build up a rigid, drop-bar MTB. Unfortunately starting a small business curtailed my endurance career, but the bike proved fast on some local 100-mile race courses, and was comfortable and capable on long gravel road rides.
I ride a rigid dropbar based on mtb frame with 29 in wheels (and 2.35) tires, with a 2x and a mix of mtb and road / cyclocross parts and from all the bikes I have it is my favourite one.. The only issue I have is that all MTB frames are suspension corrected...
I believe Dave Zabriskie was the most famous to do it first with drop bars on his Niner.
@@SurpriseMeJT John Tomac is the most famous drop bar mountain bike by a long shot.
@@jasonmusgrave5029 yes Tomac was the first but I feel like Zabriski brought it back in the more recent modern era and even then it took time to catch on until the industry realized they could profit from it.
My favorite thing about bicycles is figuring out how you want to ride, and finding what works for you. More fidelity in the bike spectrum is a good thing. We can't all own 20 slightly different bikes but, at least we can mix and match from a broad pool of options to suit our own needs. More is better in the bike world.
You're letting the secret out! SHHHhhhhhhhhh....I've been running a Salsa Fargo Ti with a Stepcast 34 fork for a few years and it's very fast. I raced Lost and Found last year and changed my bike choice last minute from my Niner RLT w/ 45c Terra Speeds to Fargo with 100mm fork and dropper post on 2.2 Race Kings. I ended up getting 1st in my age group after flatting and crashing. The dropbar mountain bike was so much faster and comfortable. I was the only one in the front group that was on a 'mountain bike'. Out of 1,000 riders I pulled a top 10 downhill time with ease and had a great time on that descent. Most other guys were cursing, walking, etc.
Awesome ride!
I recently built a Cotic Cascade frame into a drop bar MTB with GRX 820 levers, a Ritchey 52 cm Beacon XL bars, SLX crankset/cassette/brake calipers, a Fox stepcast 34 fork (120 mm), oneplus V2 120 mm dropper, and Vittoria Barzo (F) and Mezcal (R) tires. This thing is a true all-terrain bike (ATB) and a total beast - it eats gravel up for breakfast and takes on rocky Colorado blue MTB trails for dinner and dessert.
Rough downhills are a blast, getting nice and low in the drops I can descend much faster than on my XC bike. Yet it rides surprisingly sprightly on roads and groomed paths, only a little slower than my Trek Checkpoint (which is really a robust road bike with wider tires). I've yet to do any touring but it's been a great companion for 100+ km rides on mixed surfaces.
It's certainly not an expert at anything, and it's the weight of a mid-range alloy hardtail. But this ATB is super-versatile and fun to ride anywhere. Plus it's so very comfortable and reassuring with the steel frame and fork.
I can appreciate your point of view. My Gravel bike is a 100/100mm travel full-sus XC mountain bike with fast-rolling 700x43 Gravel tires. Fast on pavement and gravel yet still capable on single track. Most important, very comfortable and easy on the body.
Did you convert to a drop bar?
What size chainring are you using?
@@ChrisBHaven 10-52 cassette with a 32 tooth chainring
@marksandoval5361 That's exactly what I'd be running if I commit to the idea. Do you know your top speed, and do you find yourself spinning out?
@@ChrisBHavenI live in the mountains of Colorado, so all my rides are high altitude and steep. If I lived someplace flatter and lower altitude, I would put on a larger 34 tooth chainring. I only spin out on the straight steep paved roads when I hit 25+ mph. Once I get going that fast, I don't care that I've spun out. Ultimately, it's so easy to put on a new chainring with 1x drivetrains. I would just put on the largest chainring that still leaves you with an adequate climbing gear for where you ride and not worry about the top end.
Nice video. My hardtail (with 2.3 Ikons, flat handlebar, a 100mm fork and a seat dropper) is my gravel bike now. What I have noticed when riding doing "gravel" rides with my friends (on Lauf Siglas with 20mm of travel and 42 mm tires) is as follows:
- Single track or any semi-technical descents: I run away and hide
- non-technical gravel or flowy (flat) singletrack: relatively similar performance
- road: they run away and hide
Given all of this, I am with you...use a HT MTB. I haven't gone so far as to put a drop bar on, but for what you are doing and how you are competing, seems like the right call.
Fantastic video/content as always. Love the statement regarding "people who look at tyre tread as the sole determiner for speed know nothing about rolling resistance". Been saying this for years - feeling particularly validated!
Awesome video,John Tomac was racing mountain bikes with drop bars in the early 90's,he is the original gravel rider.💯👌🏻✌🏻🚴♀️
It was already being done in the 80s. Mtb with dropbars.
100% agree. The gravel market has very quickly grown in all directions and there needs to be sub categories to help the customers understand what they're buying. I get people coming to my shop saying "I bought this gravel bike because my friend said that gravel bikes are very comfortable on the road" and they've got something on the more gravely end of the gravel spectrum. Bikes are a spectrum, from endurance road bikes that can take 38c tires to Grountain bikes. It's 2023, bike category fluidity is the name of the game. Bring them all on and have fun.
Easily modified to what you need I'd say to then buy smaller tyres
Dylan, Really appreciate the insight on this topic. Although I don’t race anymore and just enjoy the love for cycling, I also have a passion for keeping myself informed on what’s new and how cycling has evolved. This is my way to give back to the sport, helping new riders or those that may be thinking of getting into the sport. There is so much more information these days compared to when I was racing. Thanks a bunch.
I used to ride MTB in the early 90s and I didn't know what a gravel bike was until an hour ago. Something came into my TH-cam feed about gravel bikes and I ended up here. My first thought when I saw people riding on the brake hoods of a gravel bike was how similar the riding position is on these gravel bikes to the 90s MTB, with a high seat, low bars and the obligatory Onza bar ends. Seems we've come full circle.
yep and yet some will bash and gets mad at if you mentioned Gravel bikes are MTB of 90s😅
Welcome, fellow 90's MTB rider :) my thoughts exactly, bike manufacturers are on the edge of rediscovering MTB.
@@qwerty6789x I wouldn't get mad or bash, but I would 100% prefer a modern gravel bike to a 90s MTB, having ridden both.
Monstercross was the phrase we used in the 2010's. I have fond memories of my titanium MCX rig with 2.4" meats, a Lauf MTB fork, short stem, and drop bars. You could save 500g and likely some CdA if you went with an old Lauf, but might lose speed (and a really good sponsor) in technical corners.
I haven’t heard that term in a while! It was when smaller wheels were still around, meant essentially 29er, right?
@@HkFinn83 Yeah, I think wheel size was flexible but very wide tires and drop bars were the main criteria. It was a maze of compatibility between road and MTB components, brake cable pull ratios and mounting standards, and axle styles at that time too. It's all quite settled now, and for the better.
Who remembers the "I beg you, more Monstercross" thread on MTBR? I was a big part of that. I love the Supermotard movement. It's coming back.
A company has been rocking the frankenbike from their factory for a while! It's called the Lauf Seigla - 2.25 tire clearance with 700c rims, suspension fork (not a MTB suspension), XC MTB geometry (mostly), drop bars (a very compliant one at that), UDH, 1x only, 17-18lbs!!! They also sell the entry level version, which has electronic XPLR, for $3500 (ish). Bought one, it's fast. I think you could objectively say it covers the MTB end of the gravel spectrum quite well but I'd love to see more data on the other end of the spectrum - aero gains or losses.
It’s so refreshing to listen to an intelligent person discuss this subject. You totally get it. I would add that while tire casings do indeed play a huge role in roll resistance, it’s fairly difficult to determine how soft your casing is. TPI is the only factor I’m aware of and often you don’t have options there. Durometer of the rubber is key too and again is not often known but what is in your face obvious is the tread pattern and there are a lot of them that are clearly slow. When you can feel and hear the vibrations when on pavement you know you have a slow one. In any case almost all high end race mtb tires (ie low profile mtb tires) will be low resistance and perfect for gnarly gravel races.
PS: I would argue the Salsa Cutthroat is a drop bar mtb. It’s not designed for racing but you could if you swamp out for some lighter parts.
Thanks again, great video and keep up the good work.
The Salsa Cutthroat also has MTB Boost spacing hubs and axles. I think that definitely puts it into MTB since every replacement components for those will be MTB components
I like this! I was a bicycle courier in Stockholm for 5 years and developed over time what I think was the fastest courier bike for that city. It was a Frankenstein betweena roadbike and a mountainbike. I also worked in a high end bikestore at the same time so I got to hear allabout the latest in biking...
That dropper lever is cool, haven’t noticed that on this bike before. Agree with you that they need more categories of gravel bikes. It will happen. For me, I would like just an aero road bike w clearance for 40-42s. But there are absolutely needs for bike packing gravel bikes, more single track capable gravel bikes, etc..
Instantly reminded me of Suntour Command shifters.
You are all the nerd and I'm totally here for it. Nobody at work wanted to listen to me geek out about which mtn bike tires I decided to go with
Hey the old ladies are on electric beach cruisers now. It's fun watching them zoom past you on an uphill you've been struggling with for a while :D Shopping bags swinging in the air, bolt upright in their pink fleece overcoats. You go old lady!
I love the look of your bike. Some full suspension bike are just light as a hardtail. Why don't you try one? A full suspension drop bar bike will look awesome I think. :)
I plan on it. Thanks!
Nah
Sure sounds comfortable to me.
Laurens ten Dam just win the 1000 km transcordilleras race in Colombia on a full suspension MTB with drop bars.
I think being a contrarian is what makes your channel and analysis unique. Keep it up Dylan
I'm stealing that line, "I just want the fastest bike that the rules of the race will allow, period."
Thank You for making this video. I don't understand why Gravel/Road bike cost so much without much if any innovation. An entry Roadbike (Specialized Allez) now cost $1200 because it has a mechanical disc brake, my $228 Walmart mtb has Bigger disc brake, Bigger tires. As a City rider, I don't need a mtb (but) I don't see any advantage wasting $1200 that don't offer much in capacity
Loving the retro approach, John Tomac would be proud.
Been riding a 40mm Rudy fork for a year now. 45-47c mostly. Faster everywhere, not going back. Won my age group at Unbound 200, Rock Cobbler, BWR CA, etc. It works.
Seriously thinking about getting one for my stormchaser.
Which frame do you use this with?
@@stanion9258 Checkpoint SLR. Some new gravel frames are being built to be suspension fork compatible. Look for a really tall OEM Fork that has a lot of gap between the tire and the down tube. I gained only 10mm of axle to crown distance so almost no geo change. 1.1lb gain over OEM fork. Game changer for me.
Do you follow the service recommendations for those?
@@vfxrayyup
Being an MTB rider since the early years. I totally agree with you. A FS MTB well tuned is the most fun of all and less fatigue for body. A hardtail MTB will give you wins. I see so many people now converting old mtbs to drop bars and having a blast. Most old 26”er will also easily take 650B wheels
After watching this video I found myself looking for the parts on eBay to put this thing together 😂😂😂😂😂
You remind me of rally teams gathering all kinds of resources to set a shorter time record-you're the team engineer, technician, and the driver itself. Your content has humor, scientific support, and gave me ideas for my next build. I'm still new to professional cycling, and I thought a lot of industry trends were just marketing and consumerism. We should all rig our bikes to our own personal needs. Btw your bike looks like a beast!!!
I must say - I FULLY AGREE with you. I have full-sus MTB (XC Scott Spark) and gravel Canyon Grizl TRIAL with sus-fork (also road bikes for training). It's so obvious that grip & comfort are purely speed.
Yes I love this direction.
I use my Gravelbike to commute and dream of thicker tyres and a belt drive to get rid of the always dirty chain drive.
I think the big problem is this: people think suspension is about comfort because their only experience with it is a walmart BSO with a coil fork - in reality, suspension provides increased traction and control and can make a huge difference
Really great video! I've been riding and racing off and on since the early 90s...and didn't know anything about rolling resistance haha. Thanks for the great, informative videos and please keep up with the humor.
Raced gravel for years on a 2011 Cannondale Scalpel with aero bars. About as light as a high end gravel bike. 2014 finished 23rd overall in the Dirty Kanza 200 running 1.9"
Schwalbe Thunder Burts. Just purchased a 2024 Trek Super Caliber which will replace the Scalpel. I'm all in on larger tires, and most importantly, suspension.
Drop bar mounting bikes are awesome. Period.
And even though it seems like a lot of the video makes it seem like it’s something that was never done I use to love watching Tomac win world championships many years ago doing this.
I hope we see Dylan on yt next season, they have the bike just for him
Just awesome!!! Thanks mate, grand idea!!! Been holding off buying one like everyone else. Why didn't I think of converting my old demon, great idea!
Your videos are great. there’s so much bad content on cycling.
GCN should hire you as the president and have you completely restructure their content.
It’s so nice to watch a TH-cam video on cycling that actually has something to say and something to teach.
I can't believe that the industry still doesn't make hardtail drop bar mt bikes. I made mine four or five years ago, before Sram Axis or Shimano GRX. The only disadvantage is the narrower bars when in certain mt bike situations. Drop bar hardtails are the coolest bikes.
Concerning tires: Its a little tricky to do, but i tried having deflated (!) Tubes within my tubeless tires with two (!) Stems. Just mount the tube within the tubeless tire and suck out as much air as possible from it. Then inflate the tire via the other stem as usual and booooom, you do not have to insert a tube if you get a puncture and just need to inflate the tube
@@irfuel 180 degree apart from the other one at best
Kudos to Factor for making it possible for you to experiment!
From a non-elite, non-racer the bike 90% of people need is fully rigid flat bar 29” wheeled mountain bike. And two sets of tires. Well analyzed and presented!
Yeah but flat bars hurt my arms. Rotate your hands. To the outside and to inside. Flat bars have your muscles in your forearm twisted to the inside to the limit. Riding the hoods or the drops of a drop bar have your hands in the middle of the range of motion of your hand. This is the most relaxed your forearm muscles can be. This is why people ride drop bars. Comfort over long distance. You might feel more comfortable using flat bars and I get it. I have flat bars on my FS CC bike it’s that bike I jump most and wide flat bars feel good in the air. But wide drop bars actually feel fine to me too and as someone who did their first 100 mile day as a 13 year old in 1985 on a road bike. And who raced track for years. Drop bars are my comfort zone. So I’m biased. I have converted most of my MT bikes to drop bars over the years but still have two MT bikes with flat bars currently so. Use what makes you feel most comfortable. Because in my experience feeling relaxed is what will save your life when trails or road conditions get tricky. So stay relaxed, ride what feels good and stay safe. Godspeed everyone
@@bryanzimmerman8646 It’s all about the sweep. Grab two sticks and relax your wrists. Measure the angle between them. Mine is 15*. Some people it’s 0*, some 50*. Don’t let fads or friends dictate what you ride!
@@danwebber9494 I’ve ridden over 250,000 miles since 1985. I’d never let a fad determine anything
Which is why I have ergon gs2 grips on my mtb flatbar.
My MTB is in the shop getting converted as we speak. It was cool getting to talk to you at Big Sugar this year.
I rode a RITCHEY TIMBERWOLF mountainbike with Cinelli 66/44 dropbars for many years in the 80's before I started MTB Crosscountry racing.
DH-Enduro-Trail-XC-Monstercross-Trekking-Gravel-CX-Allroad-Touring-Endurance-Road-Track-Fixie-BMX-Slopestyle.
It's the circle of bikes
and it moves us all.
Cool video. I was looking at buying a gravel bike and i instead converted my 2103 Ti Kona MTB to a gravel bike and love it. I don't know that I'll need a gravel bike now.
I can see dropbar MTB's taking over. They'll probably be the only ones to fully embrace the 2x system so they have gears for the road as well as the mountain for all those mixed terrain races. Tires like the maxxis ardent race have a good mix of tread as well. Not so sure about the compound but for one race it'll hold up.
As an old dude, getting into gravel, I like the idea of front suspension and dropper posts. I think you’re onto something.
I have just converted my hard tail trek into a drop bar MTB and my flat terrain sustainable top speed has increased from 16 mph to 20 mph with the same pedalling effort. I really appreciate this video coz it confirms I am not weird after all😂
My gravel bike is not as comfy and enjoyable as my dropbar MTB.
I’ve been riding my 2011 Cannondale Flash Ultimate as a drop bar mtb with both mtb and gravel tires since 2019. Best bike out of my quiver!
Dylan i totally agree with you with needing a range of gravel bikes.
I'm currently running a hardtail (with flat bars) with 2.2 conti race king tyres and i had a huge advantage over gravel bikes due to better handling in my last race and didn't seem to lose much if anything at all in the road and fast gravel sections Especially in a group.
Coming from a mountain bike background I was shocked to watch gravel bikes wash out in slightest of corners.
I'm currently developing an aero flat bar design with forearm rests that i think will make my hardtail even better with the handling of a aggressive hardtail and aero body position of a time trial rider. Albeit with a different hand position.
There's a reason half the field of the tour divide is on Salsa Cutthroats, and everyone who tried to race it on a traditional gravel bike this year has horror stories about it.
What’s the reason?
@@brentcollins9727because the ass end of a road bike is gonna be miserable on a trail ride, the cutthroat splits the difference, road bike position with a super short rear end, and super slack front end, the more exaggerated version of a cutthroat is a Chamois Hagar from evil, that bike is legit Enduro bike capable, just slowly, and a fire road monster on a down hill.
What an awesome take on gravel/xcmtb. I love anyone that thinks outside of the box and chooses to go their own way instead of the mainstream. Even if that way is the mainstream, but at least the decision was made with careful consideration rather than just a feeling :)
I remember watching John Tomac race XC MTB with disc wheels and drop bars back in the day. I think it’s good to always try new approaches.
Glad I stuck around to the end. Jus to see the comparison between Tom and Payson...that was pretty awesome. Good job!
I sold my gravel bike, bought a hardtail and am now realising how fast the thing is, especially in combination with really fast running tires. Other than you, I race ultra long distances, where aero bars are allowed. A hardtail with fast rolling tires and aero bars is an absolute weapon and so much more comfortable than a gravel bike on rougher stuff.
Im just getting into biking as an adult (39) my step dad had a trek remedy 7 up for grabs, so grab I did! I broke my back, so walking can get painful on my sciatic nerve. Im so happy riding leaves me unaffected! Im only riding on flat pavement getting my legs and body in order (i gained like 50lbs on bedrest). I'm up to a 26 mile ride, 14mph avg, trying to keep my cadence over 80. Im embracing the sore legs and arse.
I really want a gravel bike, mostly because I love the efficiency of a road bike, but grew up on the wild side, and need to be able to send it or get loose. My mtb tames things so much I can ride no hands on the grass with confidence.
Im currently setting goals and breaking them. My next goal is 30 miles, then 40, then 50. I may decide after 40 to get into more diverse terrain, right now hills are the enemy!
My ass is the worst part, im using dakine padded undies. Im considering a new seat, the ergon SM Pro has been recomended by a few sources, as well as ergons own fit guide. I think its my next purchase. Its either that or the Paco Rabbane Phantom parfum (cologne) ive been looking @
I'll say it again......BHD NEEDS his own channel.
I never had a gravel bike. Instead of buying one Ive done such conversion from my old Kellys Quartz. Added drop bar, changed fork for a lighter version with shorter travel, very old RockShox, some elements replaced with carbon ones and it lost ~3kg. Now riding it gives so much fun, my dream bike from the old days.
First time, the algorithm popped a video of you in my feed, but I totally think this added value.
Simply the point of choosing the fastest bike the race will allow is what every rider - for their style - should be looking for.
And in that case you're right, bikes should handle their area of expertise the best and not all areas.
But I bought a Canyon Grizl last year to fit all of my needs. It is my only bike and the only I will get. I'm riding it to work, much on road with road rides only, but I'm although riding in mountain bike terrain and in very rough trails with everything except big jumps. And on the next holiday I will ride it for a bike packing tour with friends for 5 days.
So I'm glad that there is a bike like this for me, that fits all my needs. 🙂
But like I said - great video, thank you.
I recently build a new class of bikes. Touring Frame, Downhill size brakes and a time trial bar. Needles to say that there is even a suspension fork. This runs over all terrain.
Have a little look at what John Tomac rode during the 1980/90’s!!! Waaaayyyy ahead of his time. He also used a disc during his days as a pro-mtb racer
If you're into suspension equipped, very MTB-esque drop-bar bikes, the Mason ISO is exactly that type of a "monster-gravel" or "drop-bar MTB". Its geometry is designed for 100mm suspension, even though it comes with a (very long) carbon fork and it has massive tire clearance. It's also really pretty (for a MTB-esque thing).
Good video. You make some very valid points. As you say, there are "gravel" bike races that have so much trail, or in wet conditions, a bike like this would certainly excel in one. The Overland in Vermont comes to mind. There are a few others in the northeast which are notorious for rocks and techy sections as well.
I've been gravel for 30 years, it used to be called trekking....currently I ride a CC Hardtail 29'....only modification, narrow gravel tires and a carbon fork with eyelets, 1x12 (36 x 11/51)... and it works great.
Hey Dylan, wow, what a really insightful and performance-first take on drop-bar MTBs! One small consideration is the adoption of suspension corrected geometry by bike manufacturers for gravel bikes... think early MTB era when front suspension forks were just beginning to be used and suspension corrected MTB frames started. Currently there are a small handful of gravel bike companies that are leaning ahead and incorporating these design standards to better accommodate folks who want to put a gravel specific suspension fork on their frame. Salsa happened to be one of the first modern bike companies to have suspension corrected frames, several other manufacturers are rolling their updated frames out too. The new Santa Cruz Stigmata for one. Food for thought, but a gravel bike with suspension corrected geo and 700x50s just might do the trick too for some race courses. That all said, I personally dig riding my recently built drop-bar Ritchey Ultra--it's a long distance ripper!
You are not alone in this decision. Try broader shallow dropbar, the gravel sort of dropbar.
My steel hardtail is comfortable, has great gearing, and is capable when the roads get nasty. And… I don’t race, so who cares about the speed lost. I can ride all day, get up again tomorrow and feel spry. My friends who are a “geeked” out have bikes worth 10x mine and there isn’t much lost. Riding an xc bike should be looked at by more people.
As someone that lives in Kansas, I would say a drop bar gravel bike is definitely the most efficient bike for getting around out here... but I completely agree with the need to have a more rowdy gravel bike. The only thing I would change about my bike is the ability to run mtb tires.
Been riding for a while and i used to ride an old Raleigh with 700 wheels and big tires and a flat bar. It was considered a Frankenstein but it worked. Seems like a gravel bike to me and it reminds me of older bikes. Keep riding and honestly who cares about labels.
Brands should just use their xc race hardtail frames and build them with gravel gearing and component selections. I think the XC Race hardtail category is becoming less and less enticing with full suspension xc race bikes becoming so good. That category should morph into what you’re talking about. Offer them with flat bar specs and gravel specs. Maybe add some mounting or storage and you’re cooking with gas!
Years ago, I started using a MTB with drop bars for gravel riding. Have also switched to solid forks as well.
I’ve been riding my 2013 Flash Ultimate with drops and a rigid fork for years, swapping between mtb and gravel tires and it slays!
And we've come full circle! 🙌 Thank you so much, the bike world has caught up with common sense when we said "why it's just a mountain bike with drop bars..." like 12 years ago
We were riding drop bar mountain bikes in the eighties when a lot of mountain biking looked like what is now called gravel biking. Whoa, the circle is going round and round. Those 40 mm travel gravel forks have the same travel as my first Rock Shox Quadra albeit more refined.
Love that you're just after what's fastest for you. Have a few bikes to choose from (carbon crux, fully rigid hardtail and full susps) and riding the same greenway/gravel/light trail route I'm actually faster on an older Jet9 (80mm of rear travel and 100mm fork with lockout) with fast rolling gravel tires. And the ride is more fun and more comfortable, so I'm less fatigued. Need to try it with drop bars.
Dylan is the smartest person on the internet.
Was looking at buying a gravel bike a few years back as it seemed to be the cool thing to do. I opted for converting my old Gary Fisher hardtail to a drop bar and converted from 3x to 2x as I only had a spare pair of 105 shifters... they were cable too so had to down grade to cable pull disks. ( one lucky win was that the pull ratio for 105 10 speed is exactly the same as 9 sp deore so could go up to a 10 speed cassette and didnt need a new rear mech) Anyway, it's only on 26.5's so proper old school. Struggles a bit on tarmac, so sit in the draft, but like a lot of places here in the UK the gravel quickly becomes quite narely and a lot of technical single track. Suffice to say for a couple of hundred spent, it leaves very expensive bits of kit in it's wake. Not so surprisingly many riders are now investing in front gravel shocks here. If not racing, and just enjoying gravel riding, I would definitely go for a more relaxed setup with a shock, it just gives way more scope. As you say though, it boils down to horses for courses.
Would love to see a video about knee injuries. Something like "Is cycling safe for your knees?"
Currently having some issues that prevent me from racing
As a casual rider with no interest in racing I knew this video would only marginally apply to me, but was curious to hear your perspective. Interesting for sure. I personally have a flat bar gravel bike, which is really just a XC hardtail with skinner/slicker tires, Innerbarends and a bag, but still flat bars and a full 150mm dropper (I originally road rigid post but the full dropper works better for me since like to ride pavement to get to single track). One thing I’ll sort of disagree on is when you (admittedly said it was an elitist racing opinion) said having very specialized equipment for the need. And while I agree there is a time and place for that, probably 95%+ if riders aren’t racing and I’d rather have something a bit more versatile. Something like the new Pace RC429.
Also, maybe since I grew up mountain biking and didn’t have a road bike until my late 20s, I have have never found drop bars remotely comfortable, not sure how anyone rides in them more than a few miles.
About 15 years ago I ran a Cannondale scalpel 26er with 650Bs and drop bars. Absolutely awesome as a gravel bike but it was tough to get enough drop with a lefty stem. If I’d have solved that issues I’d still probably be riding it today .
I use a carbon version of the Surly corner bar on my hardtail sometimes. It's a nice in between drop bars and flat bars and it uses mtb style brakes and shifters so it's easy to switch back and forth.
Was thinking about that as a quick fix.
I wasn't aware of this. Awesome! Thinking I need to try it with race HT this winter.
What’s the carbon version called?
@@jackwindmiller copies on ali express
Only 2 or 3 full-suspension and hardtails bike can achieve gravel-like geometry by changing the suspension travel(it also changes axle to crown). For example, Cube's reaction C62 needs to slightly shorten the stroke of the rear shock. By lowering the ATC of the front fork(501mm to 450-480mm), the angle of head tubes, the bbdrop and the angle of seat tube can be increased, and the STR can be reduced to 1.45-1.5, thereby meeting gravel geometry standards. But there are too few of these frames, and they are only suitable for some people. For example, these two frames will above basically have 400 reach and 600 stack after modification, so only tall people can ride them.
My gravel bike is a Marin team titanium 26” frame circa 2000. I had Dean titanium in Boulder CO add a disc brake to the rear . 700 c Focus fork and voila. Gravel bike. XTR cranks circa 1998 Dura ace brifters and xtr derailleurs and Rise 40 wheelset. This is hands down my favorite bike. Oh I also use a cane creek 2 inch travel seat post and redshift stem. This smooths out the washboard roads
Great video. I do think asking bike companies to produce more variations of bikes is a bit disconnected from the current market trend (that trend being, keeping the lights on). Instead, I like to see more races with fewer restrictions on bikes. Would love to see a peloton of FrankenBikes. The only restriction is the parts have to be commercially available to the public. Nothing custom or one off.
Most local bike shops will build out your bike however you want if you don’t have the wrenching skills (or desire, time, etc.) to do so yourself. I do think bike companies who adopt an “aftermarket” approach to supporting exactly what Dylan is showing us here by having many different possible configurations from a couple of platforms (aero, hardtail, full suspension, etc.) may likely be more successful because they capture more of that highly sought after CLV (customer lifetime value). Acknowledging and focusing in on that adaptability for all the places we go to ride or race shows that a bike company is in tune with the industry and their customers. When they plan for that during the design phase of product development then I believe they have a better chance at succeeding (outside of the marketing aspect which seems to drive much more of the consumer discretionary spending these days than actual capability). I use several different brands of bikes simply because I prefer to try things out and then swap out parts to make it work for me the way that I want. The key thing I have learned is what works for you does not apply to everyone and kudos to Dylan for documenting his relentless pursuit of speed for our edutainment!
Idea for an upcoming video: Heat adaption training. Not solely the adaption to not lose power in the heat, that you already covered, but doing workouts with elevated core body temperature (you mostly read about 38.5°C) which is said to increase blood volume and blood plasma volume as far as I know.
Agreed in all aspects. Just finishing my self build gravel bike (old carbon HT Stumpjumper) with RS Rudy (40 mm) and added a 9point8 slack r to slack the head angle. I recently bought my 3rd wheelset( one with 44 gravel tyres, one with 32 graveltyres to join my friends on their road bikes (I do have 2 S-works Tarmacs:-)) and recent bought a set for A. Dugust tubes for wet off road.
Grear video, another difference i notice as a semi pro wheel sucker is you cant get as good of a draft on a mt. bike bcause the slack headtube makes front wheel stick out. 😊
That could be compensated with a shorter top tube and longer stem.
Got an old GT Transeo Ultra and it flies on gravel on 700 x 42s, air forks for unexpected bumps. It's much more forgiving. I just enjoy it all round much more.
Regarding specialization vs. generalization in bike design: from a racing perspective, you're right. From a normie, cheapskate perspective: I could spend $5-10k on a really nice do-everything bike, or $2k on a mediocre road bike, and $2k on a mediocre gravel bike, and so on, and pretty soon I've spent more money and I still don't have a single nice bike.
Can't wait for next season's rigid fat bike with a TT cockpit
For us regular people a rigid fork can be a lot less maintinence. The service schedule for sus forks is pretty short!
Great video, I think most people watching are interested in the tech.
Giant just listened to you and created the REVOLT X ADVANCED PRO 0… gravel, drop bars, suspension in the fork…
Hmmm good vid Bro!! Yeah a very interesting and pretty good way to set up your bike. So like I have a Cervelo R3 for road bike, specialized diverge for gravel and looking at a Cervelo mtn bike now to complete my bike collection. I think your setup is smart and gave you the great finish you had at Unbound.
Very nice bike! What's your opinion on dropbar full-sus mtb ? I race long ultradistance offroad events (1000+km multi-day races) in France and Europe, some of them pretty technical with rough sections and while hardtail dropbar mtbs can sometimes be spotted on these events, I never saw a full-sus one. However, given the last two editions of Atlas Moutain Race have been won on a full-sus, I don't see why that wouldn't work. I'm considering building such a bike based on a Trek Supercaliber, which has 110mm upfront, 80mm at the back, a lockout and is about 11kg. My goal would be to combine increased tire clearance, traction and comfort (to save energy) in the most technical parts of the race, but still get the aero advantage and most importantly comfort of the different hand positions available. Based on your experience with this setup, is this something you'd recommend or I am going too far? Thanks and greetings from France!
Dylan, Mind doing a comprehensive deep dive on the switch and components just on the bars from flats to drop?
I always had that idea. Just gorgeous and functional bike you built up mate. Remembers me crested buttle.
ten years ago people laughed at me when I wanted to add a drop bar to my XC bike. I just like the comfort of the drop bars betterr then flat bars on my tourring. And gnarly technical trails that i encounter sometimes on my trips are exhausting without suspension.