Here's a fun fact, did you know all Yamaha student mouthpieces (4c, 5c etc) are made of bakelite? And those rico metalites people always rave about online are made out of polycarbonate which is known to release Bisphenol A in water at room temperature. And the American mouthpiece manufacturer Bari sells a few plastic mouthpieces that are so safe they won't even advertise what kind of plastic they're made out of.
@@silpo4164 The top line ones yes. Not the Yamaha 4c, one of the best selling mouthpieces worldwide is made of phenolic resin 1. Amino and phenolic resins contain formaldehyde, which is highly toxic by inhalation, highly toxic by eye contact and ingestion, and moderately toxic by skin contact. Formaldehyde is an irritant and strong sensitizer, and is a probable human carcinogen. www.nontoxichub.com/plasticssafetyoverview
3rd time I've watched this video since you uploaded it. I reckon it's one of, if not the most important sax related uploads on TH-cam. Stuff that no one else seems to be addressing. Good work sir...
Glad I turned on notifications, was just rewatching an old video of yours, I’ve been playing tenor for about 8.5 years and love watching your videos, keep up that great work
Woah good to know this, I was about to buy one of those cheap mouthpieces and try it out myself. But now I think I’ll wait to try a better more quality mouthpiece mouthpiece for a guaranteed more safe mouthpiece. Thank you so much
That sunnyray website is by no means a source you should quote. There is nothing I can find stating that asbestos is in bakelite necessarily--though asbestos is hazardous only when you inhale it; just like the formaldehyde in ebonite mouthpieces (those things are like a third formaldehyde). As someone stated earlier there may be some ambiguity in the translation for these Chinese mouthpieces as well. If you sand an ebonite or plastic mouthpiece you should definitely be outside/have ventilation over your work station. Bakelite has been used in saxophone mouthpieces for decades, so the older ones would be more likely to contain asbestos if anything. Now all of that said there should be greater oversight and regulation in the manufacture and production of anything that is going to sit in our mouths half the day lol (think piercings too). This isn't just for Chinese brands though, all of these Western companies outsourced their production purposely to places with the least labor and consumer protections to help their bottom line, and that's why their patents are being violated now. It also means that the big names are suspect of using the same material/lacking the same oversight. Even mouthpieces made outside of China may source their raw material(s) from the cheapest place (China). The Consumer Product Safety Commission would be the entity to test these, and the entity to lobby if we wanted mouthpieces for all band instruments included within their testing (currently they don't appear to be): www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Testing-Certification/Lab-Accreditation/Rules-Requiring-a-General-Certificate-of-Conformity/ other links: books.google.com/books?id=Jsmr9T0uIncC&pg=PA53#v=onepage&q=saxophone&f=false en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite#cite_note-Franklin-39 www.p65warnings.ca.gov/fact-sheets/phthalates www.p65warnings.ca.gov/fact-sheets/formaldehyde en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonite en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene
Fantastically cheap manufacturing costs and Fantastically cheap materials. MAN - you're sayin' just what a lot of us are talkin' about. I am ever so glad to hear you and Sir - for this Rhetoric " YOU" have earned more of my respect than you had previously. I have watched lots of your presentations and this is one of your best IMHO - sincere regards and happy everything.
It happens in bigger brands too. Got an allora flugelhorn from woodwinds and brasswinds and it came with a sticker warning of lead being used in the product...
That’s thanks to California Jody jazz has something about that warning label on there website please look into that and see if it is similar situation I own an allora alto sax and I had no warning label so yeah haha
I just watched one of your 2016 videos (on altissimo). Your presentation has become a lot better and more relaxed over the years! (content of that 2016 video was great, thanks!). Overall, I am amazed by the amount of quality content you make available for us!
Great video. Thanks for being of service to the sax community. I read about Bakelite when those fake Vandoren first popped up and was appalled by what I read about the toxicity. It’s so important to know what we’re putting in our mouths, especially that it’s usually for extended periods of time.
Gosh, Adrien, based on your review, I had my wife order me a silver Yibuy #7 from Amazon for Christmas. It's still in the box, I haven't played it yet, but I'm concerned about it now.I appreciate you taking the initiative to inform us about your research into the matter. What to do, I wonder.
Greatly appreciate your speaking out on this. I have tried to stop buying Chinese products as a start and will begin to check closely on products from other countries - and even in the U.S.. Thanks.
Weird thing is, there are expensive products that come from China as well like my Nike shoes. I hate to think that they would cost thousands if they were manufactured in the USA.
Thank you for investing your time to and energy to make this video I will be spreading the word around other musicians especially those that teach. Thank you SirValorSax
OMG. What an eye opener. Talk about being rather Blaza about it I intend to forward your message far and wide. As a saxophonist myself I’m discussed that this is going on and as you say unmonitored by health and regulatory officials. Keep well and keep safe. Cheers from NZ.
After seeing your initial review of the Chinese mp's I bought three (2 tenor and 1 alto). One alto and tenor played well, but Yibuy silver played FANTASTIC, better than all the mp's in my arsenal (all $350+). I played it consistently until seeing your negative comments. Man, I'm really torn about giving it up! .. Dang. Not sure what to do now. 🤔
I'm trying to get 2 of the unplated mouthpieces plated by various companies. That video should be up in August. My biggest issue with all of those products is in the consumer's ability to research the product. Jupiter is a Chinese made company and I've had GREAT success with their saxophones. If I could find out what that Yibuy silver mouthpiece was, I'd keep playing it and repost the video.
@@Sirvalorsax .. Thanks for your reply. The three mp's I have are all silver plated, so I feel a little more confident about using them. However, I still have some reservations based on your assessment. My favorite tenor piece I'll keep playing just because it's so awesome. As in your case, it's in my top stack so I don't play it exclusively. This helps mitigate my doubts to some extent based on the amount of usage. Btw all your videos are excellent! Eventhough I've been playing sax for 60 years, I enjoy and learn a lot from them. You're a very talented musician and teacher. Thanks so much. Keep them coming! 🎷🎶
We failed many times with HAL or RCCL when USPH inspection were on board mainly in Alaska,Juneau.But they gave us always a second chance mainly in afternoon.Was no shore leave on that day….
There is no problem .The brass mouthpieces are made from high quality bar stock 80/20 and fed into a CNC machine working 24/7 with little hand work afterwards . The 'hardrubber' again are made from new correct material purchased on the International materials market . The price is not low simply Chinese costs reflect a different fiscal yardstick and a total lack of hype. It is refreshing that after years of being ripped off by 'boutique 'makers a company sells a proper job for the right price . Saying that I play a Geoff Lawton 10* BBS machine/hand made in 1979 which I could not replace nor would want to . Peace
Don't freak about it. Don't grind up bakelite and snort the dust and you will be ok. Some of us can not tolerate any exposure to the various toxins that you you have mentioned, while others are not affected. If your new mouthpiece tastes "funny" or metallic, then you should discontinue using it. Your own personal mouth chemistry may cause toxins to be released that can affect you, while others will not have a problem. The plating process may leave cadmium traces on a brass (copper and zinc alloy) mouthpiece, regardless of where it was made. The "gold" plating on my newly purchased yibuy gold mouthpiece is not gold, as the "silver" plate on Sirvalor`s is not silver( tarnish on my gold and silver mouthpieces does not disappear upon application of chemical reagent). Choice is yours, $30 and take an unknown chance, or $500 and know what you are getting. The 9 yibuy has about a 0.100inch tip opening. You have a point about copyright infringement, China is well known for this practice. If I could get royalties from cats that copy my licks, then......oh wait.. that means me payin' the Trane for what I've borrowed. Personal for Sirvalor; thank you for sharing your experience on youtube, it has made a difference in my life. Sometimes just hearing someone doing it lets you know that it's possible , and that is half the battle. Trane lives.
Thank you for sharing this important information. I have known about the metal Chinese mouthpieces since Gary Sugal posted information on having Chinese metal mouthpieces tested to see what materials were in them and the results saying one had lead bromide in it, was a bit alarming. I did once have a generic cheap Chinese alto sax and this makes me wonder what exactly it was made off as it had a kind of slight musty metal smell to it that no other saxophone I have played since, had. It didn't feel nice to touch or play, but only played it for a couple of days before getting rid of it and I am glad I did. I have known for a while about the knock off mouthpieces since I was looking for a JodyJazz HR* alto mouthpiece online and saw the knockoff versions that mentioned being made of bakelite. I didn't know about what was in bakelite though and that is scary to know what is in it and how dangerous bakelite is. I am now always making sure I can find out as much as I can about the materials/how an instrument or mouthpiece/ligature is made and know where the materials come from and like you, I am now not going to buy anything I can't find much/if any information about it.
A buddy bought a Soprano sax from China around £170 last year. Was silver (lead?) coloured. He also bought a metal m/piece around £30 from China. Both sounded really good! Personally I would not put one in MY mouth. Like most sax players he wanted a Soprano but not spend a lot of cash on something he would rarely play.
Awesome video and I'm only 5 mins into it and you have opened my eyes about toxins in it. I'm going to avoid buying on Ali Express, it's like going into a motorcycle gear store and choosing a helmet, it's a price you put on your head, so you choose the price you wanna pay for the helmet sort of thing!! Thanks man.
Thanks for talking about this as it is obviously a very important subject. I do think however that we should not tar all products with the same brush just because they are made in China. Also keep in mind that hard rubber/ebonite degrades as it ages and can give off sulphuric acid! I completely agree regarding the ripoff of other company's IP and brand names and if that is really bakelite then again I wouldn't go near it. But those metal ones are not a copy, nor do they pretend to be and the silver plated ones in particular do seem very well made. I guess they automate a lot with CNC machines to reduce labour costs. The other thing we have to remember is that China has devalued its currency several times making their goods very cheap for us. The last point I would make is that not all Chinese companies are dishonest and not all of them are honest but that is the same the world over. I will continue to use my metal mouthpieces and may have some testing done on them if I can get around to it. Thanks again for such a great and informative channel.
Al Mclean is a saxophonist, teacher & saxophone designer who is ( was?) involved with ARC saxophones. He went to China to, I believe, oversee the manufacturing of these instruments. He might have an interesting point of view on this subject. You can find him on FB and youtube.
Thanks for the update. I purchased a Yibay MP on Amazon after your review and like you I was impressed. Luckily I've only played it once. Is there anyway you can link your video to "Amazon Reviews" on the Chinese MP's being sold there. It would be a good step for potential buyer awareness.
Très courageuse prise de position , Adrien . Mais si tes conclusions sont excellentes , il faut quand même se rendre compte que le problème est énorme et ne s'adresse pas uniquement aux becs de saxophones . Le manque de contrôle de l'éventuelle toxicité de certains produits importés de Chine .........ou de partout ailleurs ( !!!! ), se doit d'être traité à l'échelle mondiale . Ce n'est pas demain que cela arrivera , sans aucun doute , malheureusement ! Mais que ça ne t'empêche pas de continuer à ouvrir les yeux des utilisateurs comme tu as l'habitude de le faire . Il est devenu INDISPENSABLE DE LES GARDER BIEN OUVERTS DANS CE MONDE DOMINE DE PLUS EN PLUS PAR LE PROFIT . La vie des gens est devenue bien peu de choses , ce ces temps-ci !!! Un grand MERCI.......
I will only blow stainless steel m/pieces. I have a 60 year old Berg Larsen Tenor and a 5 year old Beechler Bellite Alto. Happy with those! Have a Yamaha 7c plastic for the Soprano - bit worried about that one.
Received a metal baritone sax mouthpiece. Looks like a Lawton with integrated ligature & funky cap. Plays quite well. 50$ can. More or less. How do you feel about the metal pieces?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that brass isn't it's own metal but an alloy and contains a bit of lead regardless of source so even boutique mouthpieces like Theo Wanne would be under scrutiny here. Also his website mentions something about ebonite under the prop 65 warning. Just some food for thought
On second thought I'm not sure about the ebonite warning thing on Theo's website but alot of manufacturers have prop 65 warnings on their websites which leads me to wonder about ebonite as well
Theo Wanne uses lead free brass. "Lead Free" is not the same as "Zero Lead". Lead free is a super low percentage of lead that is much less that what is in home plumbing. The standard percentage changes every few years. Zero lead is exactly what it sounds like. No lead.
Sir you ought to be teaching at Juilliard or The Royal College of Music. It would Great for the students but not for us because we wouldn't be able to hear you. Thank you so much for your amazing videos besides your talent your great enthusiasm and how you want to help others. You have a real gift from God. I wish you every success. - Bill - UK
I'm glad you made this video thanks. I also appreciate that you only played the mouthpieces that used their own Chinese brand name. There are so many "selmer" "vandoren" "Meyer" etc copies that use real brand names,clearly wrong. Copying a classic style of a mouthpiece like a Meyer or Otto link is a feature of many specialty mouthpiece makers. Do we say that they should stop as well? I hope not but who knows. How many legit makers show the chemical makeup of their mouthpieces? I have a few nice vintage pieces I know I'm not going to get chemically analysis done. If getting chemical analysis of materials is expected of every mouthpiece it will instantly put small mouthpiece makers out of buisness. Also pushing prices up on mass produced brands. Stuffed if I know what the answer is... But until something like you suggest is done how can we truly know what we are putting in our mouths be it Chinese or made anywhere else. Anyway I'm going off to practice on my possible toxic waste made by selmer then putting a Chinese metal piece in my mouth.... Hahahaha
Hello Sir; I have a name that I did not hear you speak of, and if you had, my apologies. Arnold Brilhart without the ligature. What do you think of it for $150. Canadian dollars?
zillions of videos consumed.... first subscription. I usually refer to you as..suoerstud horn player. which doesn't do you justice as a deeply thoughtful and learned observer of the artform.
I do have a couple of unplated $20 mouthpieces that I will play only if I can get them plated to my satisfaction. Other than that, I would advise against playing any mouthpiece that you can't research
Hey @sirvalorsax. You are spot on. My brother worked for a US toy company (that will remain unnamed) that had an incident where the product the chemists came up with (that was non toxic) was exchanged for a very toxic, hallucinogenic and cheaper substitute in the factory, without permission. It was released to the public and kids got sick and a class action lawsuit came after. There is no overarching guidance in China except profits. That said, the larger companies that manufacture there have pretty strict QC. Then there are the intellectual property issues. (Now they are calling the model a “Selmer Mark 6”) in a strange attempt to avoid IP issues. Thanks for addressing this, but the sad truth is that folks will apply the Walmart principle to everything and always go for more, cheaper, etc. The kind of oversight we need is unfortunately costly and our society doesn’t love that, though the more we expose issues like this the better things may get. Here’s hoping.
Damn, I wish I saw this before I got the aiway today. Do you think the metal ones are safe? I pretty sure that it should be fine based on the amazon reviews but I am a little weary now.
Henry Marocchi you can always clean it and if it is plated it should be okay if it is just bare brass then there can possibly be an issue idk if it would even be able to get you sick but if I’m correct just the bare brass can releases some chemical that isn’t great for you
@@matthewstevenson7452 yeah the one I got is nickel plated stainless steel I think. Either way I cleaned it and wiped it Down well and even used a little rubbing alcohol to make sure it was completely sterile.
@@henrymarocchi7844 ~ Stainless is costly to machine compared to brass, due to its hardness. I think my Yibuy #9 is silver plated, based on color comparison to silver plated Selmers, and it's certainly myuch whiter than the nickel silver alloy keys on my Yamaha bass clarinet. It could easily have other additives though.
I've chosen not to play or review these types of mouthpieces anymore until I can get more conclusive information on them. Amazon does have an excellent return policy.
These cheap products come from sources that are NOT interested in music and the LEGACY OF SOUND; they are there to make quick $$ for a year or two, and then switch to making screws or frying pans. Imagine Selmer making saxophones for a few years, and then switching overnight to making cutlery? I am glad you have reacted. Thank you!
Awesome video, when I saw your videos praising these cheap mouthpieces I knew there were many ethical issues that led to these mouthpieces being so cheap. I’d just like to point out something that’s actually important to understand with this issue. Since a chemical reaction is involved to make these plastics, the toxicity changes with the end product. Think about salt. It’s perfectly harmless but made of sodium and chlorine, both extremely toxic chemicals. Salt is fine to eat, we just hope that there is no residual chlorine or sodium left in the final product. It’s the same with plastics like Bakelite. In theory, Bakelite should be safe to use, as long as all the formaldehyde is used in the reaction and there is none left over. That assumes though that the company producing the Bakelite is safe and careful enough to make sure that there is no residual formaldehyde in the final Bakelite. These mouthpieces are so cheap that I HIGHLY doubt there is any thought or care about where they are getting their Bakelite. However, at the same time, this doesn’t mean that Bakelite CAN’T be safe for mouthpieces. It just means that companies should be careful about the material is manufactured. Same goes for metal, it’s very easy for lead to contaminate brass and expensive steps must be taken to ensure that there is no lead in the brass. Are these companies doing that? We don’t know. It’s very concerning. We can even talk about how important the quality of plating is to a mouthpiece, brass poisoning is very real.
On second thought I'm not sure about the ebonite thing on Theo's website but alot of manufacturers have prop 65 warnings on their websites which leads me to wonder about ebonite in general as well
Some manufacturers of various products routinely put prop 65 warnings on everything. There is no penalty for putting a prop 65 warning on something that is safe. There are small makers of artists' oil paints that put prop 65 warnings even on pigments that are used in toothpaste and sunscreen.
If it's the $10 acrylic one keep it for a while. I just reposted my video on it and I just had it pimped out by a local artist with airbrush paint. I'll be doing a follow up review on it soon.
@@Sirvalorsax wow.. in gonna return them then. I want to switch to tenor but i dont know what mouthpiece to get. I play at church and need volume. Been playing for a long time. Do you still recommend the yamaha 5C? Thanks in advance.
@@mgtowsax3176 Are you playing with a full band? If so, you should probably think about using a mic to be heard without working too hard. A new mouthpiece may help but if the band is playing to bring down Jerricho's walls, not so much.
You are spot on. We assume manufacturers make things up to standards, but that don't make it so. Money may not be the root of all evil, but I bet it accounts for about 99% of it. The labor force making the toxic China stuff can't have it good. Child labor, forced labor, bad working conditions? it is all possible. China does not respect our patents. Opening up trade with China was a bad deal. Buying an item from a USA store does not mean they are not buying the China fakes and marking them up to full retail prices. There should be someone looking into where their supplies come from.
Sirva brother I was confused and watched 3xs. I didn't have my horn though. Maybe keep videos to one basic idea. Do you have a private email? Thank you for the videos though
I don't think its safe to play any raw brass mouthpiece. I'm thinking of having this mouthpiece plated in the future. As for the other mouthpieces, I'm going to need more information on how they are made before I play them again or, have them unplated and replated.
I almost bought some of those bakelite mouthpieces off ali express. But I ended up passing because I knew Vandoren and those companies don’t use bakelite. They only use ebonite aka hard rubber. Saved myself there, but who knows how ebonite is.
I'm not shock to hear, Now Watch out for Reeds ! Do You Think reeds with graphite is safe ? and what about so called plastic reeds ? what's in it ? Think about it
I have a few synthetic reeds but I mainly stick to cane. That is a good point. I hope the motivation is there to get a watchdog entity in place sooner than later. I also feel it will come down to the consumer to make this happen
@@Sirvalorsax I watch most of your video , You are an amazing player , you make any MPC/reed sound like a million grand. Yes we need a Watch Dog . When I heard of Graphite Reeds , I almost freak out ! it is harmful just to breath and must be kept away from humans and loved ones,. Graphite reeds ???? stay away ! so you know the rest of the story.............
Well, first of all thank you for ur honesty, caution and passion, love watching ur many videos, and love your sound, but , welcome to America and the world,, it’s really up to us to keep us safe, as best WE can, especially with what’s going on in Washington these days, the EPA and the medical industry complex to me is weak and getting weaker , I’ve paid attention to this fact for instance, I’m 60+ yrs young, and when I was a kid, we never heard of kids having diabetes, heart attacks, cancer,, etc.,,for instance, now we think its normal,, what changed? well maybe exercise, diet, to start with,, kids don’t go out and play anymore, they have more SUGAR in Their diet,, check out how much sugar is in enformil/Similac, hope I spelled it correctly,, sugar is highly addictive,,people my age were breast feed,,, sugar has no DAILY REQUIREMENT, that’s by design also,, we didn’t get sodas daily or candy everyday,,point is all this stuff comes from the lack of anyone in DC Or anywhere watching the camp,, so as u know people send lobbyist to DC to dump their products to us, it’s up to us to be vigilant and ask these product PIMPS what they r selling, if they don’t reply, the red flag should go up,,,FOLLOW THE MONEY,,
These social media platforms can have a serious impact on how products a made and manufactured. I hope the correct message gets out there. Thanks for watching and commenting
Hello, I hope this helps.. First, due to these items are not digested. The USDA and FDA have no regulations. Secondly, the only Government entity that can possibly help is the Department of Consumer Affairs. You can take your data and approach your local legislator and also California has passed legislation with ingredients that cause cancer. Thanks for your video ...!!!
@@Sirvalorsax here's another place to report counterfeits. The FBI has a investigation team. I'd also discuss the toxins. Thanks again.! www.stopfakes.gov/Reporting-an-Online-Vendor-Selling-Fakes
While I am curious how those Chinese pieces are so inexpensive, it also makes me wonder how much the big name mpc makers are overcharging us. Surely China has their own organizations that oversee what they export to the US and what kinds of materials are used in manufacturing. I sorta doubt that they're sending dangerous, toxic mouthpieces to the US, but also, I simply don't know what they used in making those mouthpieces. I'm just assuming/hoping China has some kind of standard for that type of thing. I'd be really interested to see how far someone could get in contacting one of those companies and asking for all of the facts on these mouthpieces. I think this is a good video, maybe a little bit paranoid, but we just need more information. More hard facts straight from the people that make these things.
There seem to be a lot of generic companies that make sax products. Other people can have their brand stamped on those products which is why there are so many "companies" that are selling the same product with a different names.
Adrien, you're such a beautiful and sincere person. We really appreciate your honesty and integrity. Rock on! Now, that being said, apparently, what the Chinese are referencing as 'Bakelite' is not what the original substance was. Bakelite was the very first plastic product in the 1920s. I see from the following article that it does contain formaldehyde, but certainly not the garbage that's being used overseas now. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite
The metal mouthpiece may contain dangerous alloys or metals, impurities, allergens, even cancerogenic ingredients and be radioactive (that is possible too) - all of that can't be washed out. We simply do not know what goes into such cheap products; obviously, they avoid using premium materials, nor do they pay any royalties for designs they exploit, because the final product is so cheap.
Thought asbestos was illegal. If made in China there is no regulation, at least that's the impression I get. A material & quality standards association formed by top makers. As an NGO, this way standards and materials would have a constancy based on experts of sound..... Have an osha tie in with safety data sheets on all materials used in products and manufacturing. Fines for proven use of hazardous material(usually a "government" thing though.)..
In all honesty, they might be safe. It's the limited amount of information about the products that really concerns me the most. At the prices they are sold at, It seems unlikely though.
Firstly, thanks for producing your excellent sax videos. I've learnt so much from your intelligent and insightful content - its hugely valuable - don't stop doing them! But we need to set a context on this stuff about Chinese products, their pricing and quality. Let's park the counterfeiting-faking argument, because that is just wrong and and should never be allowed - but that's a totally different topic - and let's face it every modern sax is a copy of someone else's design. There are two sides to every coin. Western products are burdened by higher material costs, regulation, shorter working hours, high building rents, taxes, labour costs, employment rights, poor working practices, slow working employees and just plain gross profiteering. A US Fender Stratocaster may cost $5000 but you can go make the same thing from the same wood and metal for a fraction of that. Not a Chinese part in sight. In China, they simply don't have those costs. There's the price difference right there. Material toxicity. OK let's set the record straight. Most saxophones are made from a number of different types of brass. Some of it is stamped, some of it is machined. Stamped brass is an allow of zinc, copper and tin, sometimes bronze. Machined brass (like the neck tenon joint) is machined and contains lead so it can be machined properly. Lead is toxic! Who doesn't love an old MkVI with all that green patina. Yet that stuff is toxic. Just Google "Verdigris toxicity". Mouthpieces - particularly the "hard rubber" Vulcanite/Ebonite type are a mixture of rubber and sulphur. When you wash a hard rubber mouthpiece in warm or hot water, it goes green. That's the sulphur leaking out in the form of sulphuric acid. That's why they taste bad. The worst ones are the vintage ones - and people put them (and old lead-content machined brass mouthpieces) in their mouths! Modern hard rubber mouthpieces are more stable and black in colour. Hurray. Except the black colour is produced by adding Carbon Black, which causes cancer. The rubber part usually comes from powdering old car tyres. And you handle your old saxes and put the mouthpieces in your mouth? But let's be clear, the amounts of toxins and risks they pose are very low. But I very much doubt that Chinese versions are any different.
You bring up some excellent points and I hope people will take the time to read through your comments. My biggest issue is the lack of information that we as consumers have about the products that we buy and our ability to research them. I hope that with videos like this I can make more people aware of how important it is to have this info. I sold my unlacquered tenor because that thing got scary with all the residue building up on it. As for China, there are still corners being cut especially when it comes to plating with precious metals. Gold is still very expensive and after a lot of tests, some of the cheaper products were found to have no gold at all but being sold as gold plated. Thanks for watching my videos and let's do our part to get manufacturers to give us the info we need.
Good Sir.... for consideration. I gots me a chemistry degree and lots of haz mat, Industrial Hygiene, haz waste mgt., risk mgt. etc,,, experience. No kiddin. IMHO, MPCs are low risk to human health and the environment'. Although the chemical constituents and intermediates used in the mfg,. process can be of concern, the final product is very stable. Other commenters point this out. Treat like a knife/fork/spoon of similar materials. Additional regulatoy action and oversight is not necessary. Watch out for the hardened greenish expectorant though if one doesn't clean one's mpc. Totally agree with you on ubiquitous Chinese confiscatory and predatory trade practices.
I would love for this info to come from the manufactures of these pieces though. Especially since high end mouthpiece makers like Jody Espina and Theo Wanne dedicate pages on their website to doing exactly that.
A friend bought a Soprano from China for £180 and a mouthpiece for £20. Sounded great. They were silver coloured but silver at that price??? No, no, no. Presonally I don't like silver plated - tastes funny on tooth fillings I had as a kid. And gold plated - what is underneath when it wears off. I blow stainless steel - Berg, Lawton, Beechler, fine so far.
The wage is China is low but the cost of living is low . In the uk and the USA the cost of living has been and will remain high and he wages relatively is low wage slavery meaning you have to work everyday just to stay behind. Let’s not forget the profit margin the higher the profit the lower the wages.
It's probably a combination of many things (that contribute to the unbelievably low cost ). Subsidies. Cheap labor, materials, and operating costs. Container shipping. No safety or environmental standards. Selling at a loss. (Dumping product).
Les prix chinois sont-ils vraiment incroyablement bas où les nôtres incroyablement hauts, voilà la vraie question! Je penche plutôt pour cette deuxième option. Le prix de revient d'un bec est presque négligeable: quel est le coût de quelques grammes d'alliage? A moitié rien ..... Une fois la mécanique de fabrication amortie, fabriquer une embouchure ne coûte vraiment presque plus rien, et en ce qui concerne nos produits occidentaux, il y a longtemps que les investissements consentis sont amortis mais les prix sont restés impossibles pour UNE LARGE PARTIE de nos joueurs de saxophone. Cet amortissement s'est fait pareillement en Chine. N'oublions pas que les Chinois sont plus de 1.300.000.000! CA FAIT BEAUCOUP DE JOUEURS DE SAXOPHONES qui ont acheté leur embouchure. Je pense aussi que les fabricants chinois n ' ont pas plus envie que les nôtre d'empoisonner leurs clients. Il faut rester réaliste !!!!
Here's a fun fact, did you know all Yamaha student mouthpieces (4c, 5c etc) are made of bakelite? And those rico metalites people always rave about online are made out of polycarbonate which is known to release Bisphenol A in water at room temperature. And the American mouthpiece manufacturer Bari sells a few plastic mouthpieces that are so safe they won't even advertise what kind of plastic they're made out of.
Torkel tuva well there you go. If you don’t eat the mouthpiece, all should be ok. Maybe...
Oh crap, I have a graftonite and metalite....might as well thrown them..I dont like them anyway.
I believe Yamaha mouthpieces are made of ebonite
The Yamaha mouthpiece are made of hard rubber of hight quality (ebonite)
@@silpo4164 The top line ones yes. Not the Yamaha 4c, one of the best selling mouthpieces worldwide is made of phenolic resin
1. Amino and phenolic resins contain formaldehyde, which is highly toxic by inhalation, highly toxic by eye contact and ingestion, and moderately toxic by skin contact. Formaldehyde is an irritant and strong sensitizer, and is a probable human carcinogen. www.nontoxichub.com/plasticssafetyoverview
3rd time I've watched this video since you uploaded it. I reckon it's one of, if not the most important sax related uploads on TH-cam. Stuff that no one else seems to be addressing. Good work sir...
Thanks
Glad I turned on notifications, was just rewatching an old video of yours, I’ve been playing tenor for about 8.5 years and love watching your videos, keep up that great work
Thx for this exceptional video Adrien, and I hope you will stay our independent watchdog!
Woah good to know this, I was about to buy one of those cheap mouthpieces and try it out myself. But now I think I’ll wait to try a better more quality mouthpiece mouthpiece for a guaranteed more safe mouthpiece. Thank you so much
Thanks
Thank you for raising awareness to this hidden problem
That sunnyray website is by no means a source you should quote. There is nothing I can find stating that asbestos is in bakelite necessarily--though asbestos is hazardous only when you inhale it; just like the formaldehyde in ebonite mouthpieces (those things are like a third formaldehyde). As someone stated earlier there may be some ambiguity in the translation for these Chinese mouthpieces as well. If you sand an ebonite or plastic mouthpiece you should definitely be outside/have ventilation over your work station. Bakelite has been used in saxophone mouthpieces for decades, so the older ones would be more likely to contain asbestos if anything. Now all of that said there should be greater oversight and regulation in the manufacture and production of anything that is going to sit in our mouths half the day lol (think piercings too). This isn't just for Chinese brands though, all of these Western companies outsourced their production purposely to places with the least labor and consumer protections to help their bottom line, and that's why their patents are being violated now. It also means that the big names are suspect of using the same material/lacking the same oversight. Even mouthpieces made outside of China may source their raw material(s) from the cheapest place (China). The Consumer Product Safety Commission would be the entity to test these, and the entity to lobby if we wanted mouthpieces for all band instruments included within their testing (currently they don't appear to be): www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Testing-Certification/Lab-Accreditation/Rules-Requiring-a-General-Certificate-of-Conformity/ other links: books.google.com/books?id=Jsmr9T0uIncC&pg=PA53#v=onepage&q=saxophone&f=false en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite#cite_note-Franklin-39 www.p65warnings.ca.gov/fact-sheets/phthalates www.p65warnings.ca.gov/fact-sheets/formaldehyde en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonite en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene
Thanks for the information
Excellente intervention , merci beaucoup !
Fantastically cheap manufacturing costs and Fantastically cheap materials. MAN - you're sayin' just what a lot of us are talkin' about. I am ever so glad to hear you and Sir - for this Rhetoric " YOU" have earned more of my respect than you had previously. I have watched lots of your presentations and this is one of your best IMHO - sincere regards and happy everything.
It happens in bigger brands too. Got an allora flugelhorn from woodwinds and brasswinds and it came with a sticker warning of lead being used in the product...
Was it Proposition 65?
@@Sirvalorsax yes sir
That’s thanks to California Jody jazz has something about that warning label on there website please look into that and see if it is similar situation I own an allora alto sax and I had no warning label so yeah haha
I just watched one of your 2016 videos (on altissimo). Your presentation has become a lot better and more relaxed over the years! (content of that 2016 video was great, thanks!). Overall, I am amazed by the amount of quality content you make available for us!
Wow, thank you!
Great video. Thanks for being of service to the sax community. I read about Bakelite when those fake Vandoren first popped up and was appalled by what I read about the toxicity. It’s so important to know what we’re putting in our mouths, especially that it’s usually for extended periods of time.
Thanks
Wow, thank you so much for looking into this for the saxophone community
this is wild i’m happy it’s out cuz i was just looking at one to get one but now i will keep looking
8:19 exactly!! not toward saxophone's field only, but to every thing we going to buy!
Hey Sirvalorsax, thank you so much for bringing this to our attention.
Cool
Gosh, Adrien, based on your review, I had my wife order me a silver Yibuy #7 from Amazon for Christmas. It's still in the box, I haven't played it yet, but I'm concerned about it now.I appreciate you taking the initiative to inform us about your research into the matter. What to do, I wonder.
I bought one of these Yibuy #7 from Amazon, absolutely amazing, great sound and they don´t pretend to be some famous brand.
I told you that when you did the first Chinese mouthpiece review. Thanks for coming around.
Greatly appreciate your speaking out on this. I have tried to stop buying Chinese products as a start and will begin to check closely on products from other countries - and even in the U.S.. Thanks.
Weird thing is, there are expensive products that come from China as well like my Nike shoes. I hate to think that they would cost thousands if they were manufactured in the USA.
Thank you for investing your time to and energy to make this video I will be spreading the word around other musicians especially those that teach. Thank you SirValorSax
Please do!
Food (no pun) for thought. We use eating utensils, plates, cooking pots/pans made overseas! I would about those things first! Play on!
OMG. What an eye opener. Talk about being rather Blaza about it I intend to forward your message far and wide. As a saxophonist myself I’m discussed that this is going on and as you say unmonitored by health and regulatory officials. Keep well and keep safe. Cheers from NZ.
Thanks
After seeing your initial review of the Chinese mp's I bought three (2 tenor and 1 alto). One alto and tenor played well, but Yibuy silver played FANTASTIC, better than all the mp's in my arsenal (all $350+). I played it consistently until seeing your negative comments. Man, I'm really torn about giving it up! .. Dang. Not sure what to do now. 🤔
I'm trying to get 2 of the unplated mouthpieces plated by various companies. That video should be up in August. My biggest issue with all of those products is in the consumer's ability to research the product. Jupiter is a Chinese made company and I've had GREAT success with their saxophones. If I could find out what that Yibuy silver mouthpiece was, I'd keep playing it and repost the video.
@@Sirvalorsax .. Thanks for your reply. The three mp's I have are all silver plated, so I feel a little more confident about using them. However, I still have some reservations based on your assessment. My favorite tenor piece I'll keep playing just because it's so awesome. As in your case, it's in my top stack so I don't play it exclusively. This helps mitigate my doubts to some extent based on the amount of usage. Btw all your videos are excellent! Eventhough I've been playing sax for 60 years, I enjoy and learn a lot from them. You're a very talented musician and teacher. Thanks so much. Keep them coming! 🎷🎶
I know what you're talking about I have a mouthpiece of those and it sounds very good. Just like the ones you recommend
Very good you do your research very good on these mouth pieces 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
We failed many times with HAL or RCCL when USPH inspection were on board mainly in Alaska,Juneau.But they gave us always a second chance mainly in afternoon.Was no shore leave on that day….
Ohhh, those were the worst. 😁
Thanks so much for putting this out!! I’m a bargain shopper but I definitely don’t want to put myself at risk.
There is no problem .The brass mouthpieces are made from high quality bar stock 80/20 and fed into a CNC machine working 24/7 with little hand work afterwards . The 'hardrubber' again are made from new correct material purchased on the International materials market . The price is not low simply Chinese costs reflect a different fiscal yardstick and a total lack of hype. It is refreshing that after years of being ripped off by 'boutique 'makers a company sells a proper job for the right price . Saying that I play a Geoff Lawton 10* BBS machine/hand made in 1979 which I could not replace nor would want to . Peace
Thank you so much for raising awareness on this issue
Thanks
Don't freak about it. Don't grind up bakelite and snort the dust and you will be ok. Some of us can not tolerate any exposure to the various toxins that you you have mentioned, while others are not affected. If your new mouthpiece tastes "funny" or metallic, then you should discontinue using it. Your own personal mouth chemistry may cause toxins to be released that can affect you, while others will not have a problem. The plating process may leave cadmium traces on a brass (copper and zinc alloy) mouthpiece, regardless of where it was made.
The "gold" plating on my newly purchased yibuy gold mouthpiece is not gold, as the "silver" plate on Sirvalor`s is not silver( tarnish on my gold and silver mouthpieces does not disappear upon application of chemical reagent). Choice is yours, $30 and take an unknown chance, or $500 and know what you are getting. The 9 yibuy has about a 0.100inch tip opening.
You have a point about copyright infringement, China is well known for this practice. If I could get royalties from cats that copy my licks, then......oh wait.. that means me payin' the Trane for what I've borrowed.
Personal for Sirvalor; thank you for sharing your experience on youtube, it has made a difference in my life. Sometimes just hearing someone doing it lets you know that it's possible , and that is half the battle. Trane lives.
Asking for consumer protection is very reasonable. NOW, vote! Vote in 2020 for strong import regulations and inspections.
Good point!!
Thank you for sharing this important information. I have known about the metal Chinese mouthpieces since Gary Sugal posted information on having Chinese metal mouthpieces tested to see what materials were in them and the results saying one had lead bromide in it, was a bit alarming. I did once have a generic cheap Chinese alto sax and this makes me wonder what exactly it was made off as it had a kind of slight musty metal smell to it that no other saxophone I have played since, had. It didn't feel nice to touch or play, but only played it for a couple of days before getting rid of it and I am glad I did.
I have known for a while about the knock off mouthpieces since I was looking for a JodyJazz HR* alto mouthpiece online and saw the knockoff versions that mentioned being made of bakelite. I didn't know about what was in bakelite though and that is scary to know what is in it and how dangerous bakelite is. I am now always making sure I can find out as much as I can about the materials/how an instrument or mouthpiece/ligature is made and know where the materials come from and like you, I am now not going to buy anything I can't find much/if any information about it.
A buddy bought a Soprano sax from China around £170 last year. Was silver (lead?) coloured. He also bought a metal m/piece around £30 from China. Both sounded really good! Personally I would not put one in MY mouth. Like most sax players he wanted a Soprano but not spend a lot of cash on something he would rarely play.
I feel you. I have a problem with not being able to research a product before I buy it.
Awesome video and I'm only 5 mins into it and you have opened my eyes about toxins in it. I'm going to avoid buying on Ali Express, it's like going into a motorcycle gear store and choosing a helmet, it's a price you put on your head, so you choose the price you wanna pay for the helmet sort of thing!! Thanks man.
Glad I could help
Thanks for talking about this as it is obviously a very important subject. I do think however that we should not tar all products with the same brush just because they are made in China. Also keep in mind that hard rubber/ebonite degrades as it ages and can give off sulphuric acid! I completely agree regarding the ripoff of other company's IP and brand names and if that is really bakelite then again I wouldn't go near it. But those metal ones are not a copy, nor do they pretend to be and the silver plated ones in particular do seem very well made. I guess they automate a lot with CNC machines to reduce labour costs. The other thing we have to remember is that China has devalued its currency several times making their goods very cheap for us. The last point I would make is that not all Chinese companies are dishonest and not all of them are honest but that is the same the world over. I will continue to use my metal mouthpieces and may have some testing done on them if I can get around to it. Thanks again for such a great and informative channel.
Thanks for posting a response and sharing with the sax community. Please share your results if you get them tested.
Very well put. Thanks
Al Mclean is a saxophonist, teacher & saxophone designer who is ( was?) involved with ARC saxophones. He went to China to, I believe, oversee the manufacturing of these instruments. He might have an interesting point of view on this subject. You can find him on FB and youtube.
Thanks for the tip
Thanks for the update. I purchased a Yibay MP on Amazon after your review and like you I was impressed. Luckily I've only played it once. Is there anyway you can link your video to "Amazon Reviews" on the Chinese MP's being sold there. It would be a good step for potential buyer awareness.
Très courageuse prise de position , Adrien . Mais si tes conclusions sont excellentes , il faut quand même se rendre compte que le problème est énorme et ne s'adresse pas uniquement aux becs de saxophones . Le manque de contrôle de l'éventuelle toxicité de certains produits importés de Chine .........ou de partout ailleurs ( !!!! ), se doit d'être traité à l'échelle mondiale . Ce n'est pas demain que cela arrivera , sans aucun doute , malheureusement ! Mais que ça ne t'empêche pas de continuer à ouvrir les yeux des utilisateurs comme tu as l'habitude de le faire . Il est devenu INDISPENSABLE DE LES GARDER BIEN OUVERTS DANS CE MONDE DOMINE DE PLUS EN PLUS PAR LE PROFIT . La vie des gens est devenue bien peu de choses , ce ces temps-ci !!! Un grand MERCI.......
I will only blow stainless steel m/pieces. I have a 60 year old Berg Larsen Tenor and a 5 year old Beechler Bellite Alto. Happy with those! Have a Yamaha 7c plastic for the Soprano - bit worried about that one.
I wish more mouthpieces were made from stainless steel
an important point should narrow the tips a little so that the cane is more tailored to the mouthpiece
Received a metal baritone sax mouthpiece. Looks like a Lawton with integrated ligature & funky cap. Plays quite well. 50$ can. More or less. How do you feel about the metal pieces?
If I can't research the product to see how it's made, I want nothing to do with it regardless of its material.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that brass isn't it's own metal but an alloy and contains a bit of lead regardless of source so even boutique mouthpieces like Theo Wanne would be under scrutiny here. Also his website mentions something about ebonite under the prop 65 warning. Just some food for thought
On second thought I'm not sure about the ebonite warning thing on Theo's website but alot of manufacturers have prop 65 warnings on their websites which leads me to wonder about ebonite as well
Theo Wanne uses lead free brass. "Lead Free" is not the same as "Zero Lead". Lead free is a super low percentage of lead that is much less that what is in home plumbing. The standard percentage changes every few years. Zero lead is exactly what it sounds like. No lead.
Thanks
Sir you ought to be teaching at Juilliard or The Royal College of Music. It would Great for the students but not for us because we wouldn't be able to hear you. Thank you so much for your amazing videos besides your talent your great enthusiasm and how you want to help others. You have a real gift from God. I wish you every success. - Bill - UK
Thanks
Well Done big man thanks for your posts.
On the mouthpieces - Vandoren makes all their products to work together. Mouthpieces-ligatures-reeds.
I'm glad you made this video thanks. I also appreciate that you only played the mouthpieces that used their own Chinese brand name. There are so many "selmer" "vandoren" "Meyer" etc copies that use real brand names,clearly wrong.
Copying a classic style of a mouthpiece like a Meyer or Otto link is a feature of many specialty mouthpiece makers. Do we say that they should stop as well? I hope not but who knows.
How many legit makers show the chemical makeup of their mouthpieces? I have a few nice vintage pieces I know I'm not going to get chemically analysis done.
If getting chemical analysis of materials is expected of every mouthpiece it will instantly put small mouthpiece makers out of buisness. Also pushing prices up on mass produced brands.
Stuffed if I know what the answer is...
But until something like you suggest is done how can we truly know what we are putting in our mouths be it Chinese or made anywhere else.
Anyway I'm going off to practice on my possible toxic waste made by selmer then putting a Chinese metal piece in my mouth.... Hahahaha
Truth 100! Great eye-opener.
Thanks for watching
The truth is what it is Thanks Be Safe God Bless everyone maybe they will because of you again
THANKS
Hello Sir;
I have a name that I did not hear you speak of, and if you had, my apologies. Arnold Brilhart without the ligature. What do you think of it for $150. Canadian dollars?
You always give great info thank you 🙏
Thanks
Ok i did a research the so called bakelite mouthpieces are actually abs. I dont know about the metal ones..
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!
Cool
zillions of videos consumed.... first subscription. I usually refer to you as..suoerstud horn player. which doesn't do you justice as a deeply thoughtful and learned observer of the artform.
Thanks
What one is best for altosax... Chinese mouthpiece?
So you will advise don't even mess with the metal Aibay tenor mouthpiece either?
I do have a couple of unplated $20 mouthpieces that I will play only if I can get them plated to my satisfaction. Other than that, I would advise against playing any mouthpiece that you can't research
@@Sirvalorsax that's the direct I needed to hear. 👍🏿✌🏿
What about the metal ones you've reviewed?
He’s never sure, so I believe he always gets them plated first.
At least the cheap ones
Hey @sirvalorsax. You are spot on. My brother worked for a US toy company (that will remain unnamed) that had an incident where the product the chemists came up with (that was non toxic) was exchanged for a very toxic, hallucinogenic and cheaper substitute in the factory, without permission. It was released to the public and kids got sick and a class action lawsuit came after. There is no overarching guidance in China except profits. That said, the larger companies that manufacture there have pretty strict QC. Then there are the intellectual property issues. (Now they are calling the model a “Selmer Mark 6”) in a strange attempt to avoid IP issues. Thanks for addressing this, but the sad truth is that folks will apply the Walmart principle to everything and always go for more, cheaper, etc. The kind of oversight we need is unfortunately costly and our society doesn’t love that, though the more we expose issues like this the better things may get. Here’s hoping.
Great points. Thanks for commenting
Mouthpieces: You could probably strap a reed on a piece of PVC and make it play.
Damn, I wish I saw this before I got the aiway today. Do you think the metal ones are safe? I pretty sure that it should be fine based on the amazon reviews but I am a little weary now.
Henry Marocchi you can always clean it and if it is plated it should be okay if it is just bare brass then there can possibly be an issue idk if it would even be able to get you sick but if I’m correct just the bare brass can releases some chemical that isn’t great for you
@@matthewstevenson7452 yeah the one I got is nickel plated stainless steel I think. Either way I cleaned it and wiped it Down well and even used a little rubbing alcohol to make sure it was completely sterile.
@@henrymarocchi7844 ~ Stainless is costly to machine compared to brass, due to its hardness. I think my Yibuy #9 is silver plated, based on color comparison to silver plated Selmers, and it's certainly myuch whiter than the nickel silver alloy keys on my Yamaha bass clarinet. It could easily have other additives though.
I bought the Yibuy 9# metal because I liked your review. It's still in the package. Should I ditch it? My normal is a JodyJazz DV9*.
I've chosen not to play or review these types of mouthpieces anymore until I can get more conclusive information on them. Amazon does have an excellent return policy.
@@Sirvalorsax I have wonder if there is a laboratory it can be sent to for testing.?
I'd like to know as well
These cheap products come from sources that are NOT interested in music and the LEGACY OF SOUND; they are there to make quick $$ for a year or two, and then switch to making screws or frying pans. Imagine Selmer making saxophones for a few years, and then switching overnight to making cutlery? I am glad you have reacted. Thank you!
2:24 exactly!!!👋👋👋👍👍👍
Awesome video, when I saw your videos praising these cheap mouthpieces I knew there were many ethical issues that led to these mouthpieces being so cheap. I’d just like to point out something that’s actually important to understand with this issue. Since a chemical reaction is involved to make these plastics, the toxicity changes with the end product. Think about salt. It’s perfectly harmless but made of sodium and chlorine, both extremely toxic chemicals. Salt is fine to eat, we just hope that there is no residual chlorine or sodium left in the final product. It’s the same with plastics like Bakelite. In theory, Bakelite should be safe to use, as long as all the formaldehyde is used in the reaction and there is none left over. That assumes though that the company producing the Bakelite is safe and careful enough to make sure that there is no residual formaldehyde in the final Bakelite. These mouthpieces are so cheap that I HIGHLY doubt there is any thought or care about where they are getting their Bakelite.
However, at the same time, this doesn’t mean that Bakelite CAN’T be safe for mouthpieces. It just means that companies should be careful about the material is manufactured.
Same goes for metal, it’s very easy for lead to contaminate brass and expensive steps must be taken to ensure that there is no lead in the brass. Are these companies doing that? We don’t know. It’s very concerning. We can even talk about how important the quality of plating is to a mouthpiece, brass poisoning is very real.
why are u not on the air waves or touring when when the pandemic is over ernie watts ?
Trying to get out there again soon!!
On second thought I'm not sure about the ebonite thing on Theo's website but alot of manufacturers have prop 65 warnings on their websites which leads me to wonder about ebonite in general as well
Some manufacturers of various products routinely put prop 65 warnings on everything. There is no penalty for putting a prop 65 warning on something that is safe. There are small makers of artists' oil paints that put prop 65 warnings even on pigments that are used in toothpaste and sunscreen.
Oh man, I just bought a clear one..haven't got it yet but I'm sending it back without playing it.
If it's the $10 acrylic one keep it for a while. I just reposted my video on it and I just had it pimped out by a local artist with airbrush paint. I'll be doing a follow up review on it soon.
@@Sirvalorsax thanks man..as long as we wont be poisoned.
how about those chinese saxes that are sold for very little money? Toxic too?
I have been playing for 1 year, so what number of mouthpiece yibuy should I choose?
The Yibuy mouthpieces run small compared to Otto Links standards but I found them very easy to play. 6 should be good if you want to buy one.
I bought two ammoon metal mouthpieces. Are you talking about the metal ones too?
I don't have confidence that any of these inexpensive mouthpieces have the minimum toxicity standards that would deem them safe to use.
@@Sirvalorsax wow.. in gonna return them then. I want to switch to tenor but i dont know what mouthpiece to get. I play at church and need volume. Been playing for a long time. Do you still recommend the yamaha 5C? Thanks in advance.
@@mgtowsax3176 Are you playing with a full band? If so, you should probably think about using a mic to be heard without working too hard. A new mouthpiece may help but if the band is playing to bring down Jerricho's walls, not so much.
Asbestos was known to be dangerous in WWII and yet houses and schools were still being built with it in the UK in the '60s. Why?
I think some of it is lost in translation. Some products say “bakelite” but also say “ABS”.
This reminds me of the Donkey Kong/ Monkey Kong translation. I wish there was more information on this either way.
You are spot on. We assume manufacturers make things up to standards, but that don't make it so. Money may not be the root of all evil, but I bet it accounts for about 99% of it. The labor force making the toxic China stuff can't have it good. Child labor, forced labor, bad working conditions? it is all possible. China does not respect our patents. Opening up trade with China was a bad deal. Buying an item from a USA store does not mean they are not buying the China fakes and marking them up to full retail prices. There should be someone looking into where their supplies come from.
Sirva brother I was confused and watched 3xs. I didn't have my horn though. Maybe keep videos to one basic idea. Do you have a private email? Thank you for the videos though
I don't have a separate email yet. Thanks for watching
Fight the good fight brother. Chinese knock offs are a serious issue across industries. Diligence in purchasing is required, even on Amazon.
Thanks
So is the Yibuy #9 safe to play?
I don't think its safe to play any raw brass mouthpiece. I'm thinking of having this mouthpiece plated in the future. As for the other mouthpieces, I'm going to need more information on how they are made before I play them again or, have them unplated and replated.
You should send this video to the president!
LOL
Why is no one commenting on you 4 octave range and intonation? Jeez man, do a video on that!
I have many videos on altissimo on my channel. Please check them out.
I almost bought some of those bakelite mouthpieces off ali express. But I ended up passing because I knew Vandoren and those companies don’t use bakelite. They only use ebonite aka hard rubber. Saved myself there, but who knows how ebonite is.
Anyone know what SYOS use it is very light plastic. By the way the key to why they can make them so cheap is the currency exchange rate.
From the SYOS website they state it is an ABS polymer. I don't know much about using ABS as a mouthpiece.
I'm not shock to hear, Now Watch out for Reeds ! Do You Think reeds with graphite is safe ? and what about so called plastic reeds ? what's in it ? Think about it
I have a few synthetic reeds but I mainly stick to cane. That is a good point. I hope the motivation is there to get a watchdog entity in place sooner than later. I also feel it will come down to the consumer to make this happen
@@Sirvalorsax I watch most of your video , You are an amazing player , you make any MPC/reed sound like a million grand. Yes we need a Watch Dog . When I heard of Graphite Reeds , I almost freak out ! it is harmful just to breath and must be kept away from humans and loved ones,. Graphite reeds ???? stay away ! so you know the rest of the story.............
If you really think about it China manufacturers many things such as metal headphones etc.. what do they really put in all that stuff
Well, first of all thank you for ur honesty, caution and passion, love watching ur many videos, and love your sound, but , welcome to America and the world,, it’s really up to us to keep us safe, as best WE can, especially with what’s going on in Washington these days, the EPA and the medical industry complex to me is weak and getting weaker , I’ve paid attention to this fact for instance, I’m 60+ yrs young, and when I was a kid, we never heard of kids having diabetes, heart attacks, cancer,, etc.,,for instance, now we think its normal,, what changed? well maybe exercise, diet, to start with,, kids don’t go out and play anymore, they have more SUGAR in Their diet,, check out how much sugar is in enformil/Similac, hope I spelled it correctly,, sugar is highly addictive,,people my age were breast feed,,, sugar has no DAILY REQUIREMENT, that’s by design also,, we didn’t get sodas daily or candy everyday,,point is all this stuff comes from the lack of anyone in DC Or anywhere watching the camp,, so as u know people send lobbyist to DC to dump their products to us, it’s up to us to be vigilant and ask these product PIMPS what they r selling, if they don’t reply, the red flag should go up,,,FOLLOW THE MONEY,,
These social media platforms can have a serious impact on how products a made and manufactured. I hope the correct message gets out there. Thanks for watching and commenting
Hello, I hope this helps.. First, due to these items are not digested. The USDA and FDA have no regulations. Secondly, the only Government entity that can possibly help is the Department of Consumer Affairs. You can take your data and approach your local legislator and also California has passed legislation with ingredients that cause cancer. Thanks for your video ...!!!
I've seen the Proposition 66. I'll look inti the Department of Consumer Affairs. Thanks for the info
@@Sirvalorsax here's another place to report counterfeits. The FBI has a investigation team. I'd also discuss the toxins. Thanks again.!
www.stopfakes.gov/Reporting-an-Online-Vendor-Selling-Fakes
While I am curious how those Chinese pieces are so inexpensive, it also makes me wonder how much the big name mpc makers are overcharging us. Surely China has their own organizations that oversee what they export to the US and what kinds of materials are used in manufacturing. I sorta doubt that they're sending dangerous, toxic mouthpieces to the US, but also, I simply don't know what they used in making those mouthpieces. I'm just assuming/hoping China has some kind of standard for that type of thing. I'd be really interested to see how far someone could get in contacting one of those companies and asking for all of the facts on these mouthpieces. I think this is a good video, maybe a little bit paranoid, but we just need more information. More hard facts straight from the people that make these things.
There seem to be a lot of generic companies that make sax products. Other people can have their brand stamped on those products which is why there are so many "companies" that are selling the same product with a different names.
I hate Bakelite so much, but I love legit hard rubber. Hard rubber adds something to the experience.
Adrien, you're such a beautiful and sincere person. We really appreciate your honesty and integrity. Rock on! Now, that being said, apparently, what the Chinese are referencing as 'Bakelite' is not what the original substance was. Bakelite was the very first plastic product in the 1920s. I see from the following article that it does contain formaldehyde, but certainly not the garbage that's being used overseas now. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite
Thanks for researching this. I'd like to see a chemical analysis done by a watchdog company on these.
This exact reason is why I love Jay over at bettersax
Brand name month pieces better come down on prizes to complete with a lower one's
What about if we boil it in water and then rinse it and wash it? Just asking for a friend 😂
The metal mouthpiece may contain dangerous alloys or metals, impurities, allergens, even cancerogenic ingredients and be radioactive (that is possible too) - all of that can't be washed out. We simply do not know what goes into such cheap products; obviously, they avoid using premium materials, nor do they pay any royalties for designs they exploit, because the final product is so cheap.
Thought asbestos was illegal. If made in China there is no regulation, at least that's the impression I get.
A material & quality standards association formed by top makers.
As an NGO, this way standards and materials would have a constancy based on experts of sound.....
Have an osha tie in with safety data sheets on all materials used in products and manufacturing.
Fines for proven use of hazardous material(usually a "government" thing though.)..
In all honesty, they might be safe. It's the limited amount of information about the products that really concerns me the most. At the prices they are sold at, It seems unlikely though.
Bamboo mouthpieces might be option.
I've only heard of bamboo reeds but not mouthpieces. I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip
Firstly, thanks for producing your excellent sax videos. I've learnt so much from your intelligent and insightful content - its hugely valuable - don't stop doing them!
But we need to set a context on this stuff about Chinese products, their pricing and quality. Let's park the counterfeiting-faking argument, because that is just wrong and and should never be allowed - but that's a totally different topic - and let's face it every modern sax is a copy of someone else's design.
There are two sides to every coin. Western products are burdened by higher material costs, regulation, shorter working hours, high building rents, taxes, labour costs, employment rights, poor working practices, slow working employees and just plain gross profiteering. A US Fender Stratocaster may cost $5000 but you can go make the same thing from the same wood and metal for a fraction of that. Not a Chinese part in sight. In China, they simply don't have those costs. There's the price difference right there.
Material toxicity. OK let's set the record straight. Most saxophones are made from a number of different types of brass. Some of it is stamped, some of it is machined. Stamped brass is an allow of zinc, copper and tin, sometimes bronze. Machined brass (like the neck tenon joint) is machined and contains lead so it can be machined properly. Lead is toxic!
Who doesn't love an old MkVI with all that green patina. Yet that stuff is toxic. Just Google "Verdigris toxicity".
Mouthpieces - particularly the "hard rubber" Vulcanite/Ebonite type are a mixture of rubber and sulphur. When you wash a hard rubber mouthpiece in warm or hot water, it goes green. That's the sulphur leaking out in the form of sulphuric acid. That's why they taste bad. The worst ones are the vintage ones - and people put them (and old lead-content machined brass mouthpieces) in their mouths!
Modern hard rubber mouthpieces are more stable and black in colour. Hurray. Except the black colour is produced by adding Carbon Black, which causes cancer. The rubber part usually comes from powdering old car tyres. And you handle your old saxes and put the mouthpieces in your mouth?
But let's be clear, the amounts of toxins and risks they pose are very low. But I very much doubt that Chinese versions are any different.
You bring up some excellent points and I hope people will take the time to read through your comments. My biggest issue is the lack of information that we as consumers have about the products that we buy and our ability to research them. I hope that with videos like this I can make more people aware of how important it is to have this info. I sold my unlacquered tenor because that thing got scary with all the residue building up on it. As for China, there are still corners being cut especially when it comes to plating with precious metals. Gold is still very expensive and after a lot of tests, some of the cheaper products were found to have no gold at all but being sold as gold plated. Thanks for watching my videos and let's do our part to get manufacturers to give us the info we need.
We need fact. Like no one died by radioactivity in Fukushima, you know. Btw I will rinse my aibay mouthpiece. Thanks for alert.
Good Sir.... for consideration. I gots me a chemistry degree and lots of haz mat, Industrial Hygiene, haz waste mgt., risk mgt. etc,,, experience. No kiddin. IMHO, MPCs are low risk to human health and the environment'. Although the chemical constituents and intermediates used in the mfg,. process can be of concern, the final product is very stable. Other commenters point this out. Treat like a knife/fork/spoon of similar materials. Additional regulatoy action and oversight is not necessary. Watch out for the hardened greenish expectorant though if one doesn't clean one's mpc.
Totally agree with you on ubiquitous Chinese confiscatory and predatory trade practices.
I would love for this info to come from the manufactures of these pieces though. Especially since high end mouthpiece makers like Jody Espina and Theo Wanne dedicate pages on their website to doing exactly that.
Love of money is the root of all evil!
A friend bought a Soprano from China for £180 and a mouthpiece for £20. Sounded great. They were silver coloured but silver at that price??? No, no, no.
Presonally I don't like silver plated - tastes funny on tooth fillings I had as a kid. And gold plated - what is underneath when it wears off. I blow stainless steel - Berg, Lawton, Beechler, fine so far.
It's probably nickel
The wage is China is low but the cost of living is low . In the uk and the USA the cost of living has been and will remain high and he wages relatively is low wage slavery meaning you have to work everyday just to stay behind.
Let’s not forget the profit margin the higher the profit the lower the wages.
Your statement is based on no information at all what are you going on about.
Thanks so much.
you explained too much for the Chinese mouthpiece, I just wanna see you play the saxophone with the Chinese mouthpiece.
Oh my God! You just predicted the Corona Pandemic! You are truly able to see into the future! Just kidding, but, wow!!
I know. The writing was on the wall for this kind of thing
I have one of these Chinese mouthpieces and you can tell it has a strange scent yep probably toxic
It's probably a combination of many things (that contribute to the unbelievably low cost ).
Subsidies. Cheap labor, materials, and operating costs. Container shipping. No safety or environmental standards.
Selling at a loss. (Dumping product).
Les prix chinois sont-ils vraiment incroyablement bas où les nôtres incroyablement hauts, voilà la vraie question! Je penche plutôt pour cette deuxième option. Le prix de revient d'un bec est presque négligeable: quel est le coût de quelques grammes d'alliage? A moitié rien ..... Une fois la mécanique de fabrication amortie, fabriquer une embouchure ne coûte vraiment presque plus rien, et en ce qui concerne nos produits occidentaux, il y a longtemps que les investissements consentis sont amortis mais les prix sont restés impossibles pour UNE LARGE PARTIE de nos joueurs de saxophone. Cet amortissement s'est fait pareillement en Chine. N'oublions pas que les Chinois sont plus de 1.300.000.000! CA FAIT BEAUCOUP DE JOUEURS DE SAXOPHONES qui ont acheté leur embouchure. Je pense aussi que les fabricants chinois n ' ont pas plus envie que les nôtre d'empoisonner leurs clients. Il faut rester réaliste !!!!