Help Me Get 1000 Subscribers, what the hell does manufactured ethically even mean? Is it that they pay lower labor rates than in other countries? Would you rather see those people starve?
@Help Me Get 1000 Subscribers I'm more concerned about safety tbh, not going to ride an e bike full of lithium cells that was manufactured by a no name company
I think the same. The response was... bland, at best. The main reason they are more expensive is because of where they are manufactured. All the rest sound like mère excuses, with vague and ambiguous moral concepts.
I can remember when "V" brakes cost well over $100. The "latest & greatest" always costs more. It's just a matter of time before E-technology trickles down to actual affordability.
It's funny I have a $1500 ebike and a $3200 ebike and there are diminishing returns where the more expensive ebike doesn't feel 2-3x better than a cheaper bike AT FIRST, but down the road you start to notice all the niceties on the more expensive ebike and you appreciate a lot of the more expensive components.
The best bicycle I have ever had was a 100$ fully damped one bought at Wallmart in Havaii USA... To get anything close to that here in Norway it would cost me at lest 2000 to 3000$, something is very wrong when it comes to prising on bicycles both with and without engines. Here in Norway you can get a fully damped pedal assist scooter for about 1100$, but a fully damped electric bike that have much smaller battery and is much more simple cost 4000 - 6000 and up, where is the logic in that ?
My only concern is that an ebike for $3000 seems out of wack when I can buy a brand new 2017 Kawasaki Vulcan S for $6000 A motorcycle with far more complex mechanical & computer engineering at 10x the weight.. As weird as it may sound, it does boil down to dollars per pound... Even with low-production inefficiencies, ebike cost should retail between $600 and $1000 per unit.. We can only hope that profits made now will lead to a more stable industry with a lower cost & higher quality unit as the market segment matures..
Good point Mark, I think as we reach volume and payback on some of the investments in Ebike technology the prices will lower... and with competition ;)
think of it this way, I live in a smallish town ( 40000) there's 3 motorcycle shops now my mate owns two of them they sell about 40 bikes each shop per month so say thats around 120 to 140 motorbikes a month between the 3 shops, Now lets move to bigger cities !!!!!!! . Its all about volume and manufacturing. your motorbike is built by robots and probably takes about 15min to build and assemble. This is the difference
NOT to mention bringing new tech to market. those seemingly high "go fund me" amounts requested are a pittance when matched to a successful launch of any new product.
Mark S you're not taking into consideration that lithium battery powered vehicles are a fairly new technology. As the demand increases, tech will get cheaper. Most of the mass produced ebikes out there won't go over 20mph and will only take you 10-15 miles before the battery dies. Some companies sell manufactured ebikes like that for upwards of $7,000. If you want a high end battery powered bike that can go 30+ mph at 50+ miles, the only cost effective way is to do your research and build it yourself. When you do that you also gain the knowledge of how to service your own bike so it's not just a heap of junk to toss in a year when it breaks down.
Mark S also, you're not taking into consideration that most states don't require you to register ebikes or gas motor bikes as motorized vehicles if they're under a certain speed or level of power. And one last factor, that ebikes just need to be plugged into the wall and you don't have to pay for gas every few trips.
I just bought an Aventon Pace 500 Stepthrough for $1399.00 with powerful 750 watts motor top speed is 28 mph, 20 mph on throttle only. I tried many ebikes in the past & in my opinion this Aventon Pace 500 Step is the best affordable ebike made with excellence in craftsmanship, engineering and design. I have nothing negative to say. I am in love with my Aventon Pace 500 Stepthrough. It is perfect. I love the Stepthrough design. No need to lift my leg to mount it. It is a lightweight 48 pounds. Powerful and quiet that can go uphill like a breeze, great powerful hydraulic disc brake, great pedal assist which helps me at the traffic light stop for an easy & fast get away with just light pedaling. The Samsung battery is a powerful 48 volts with a range of 30 miles. To use the thumb throttle you have to pedal first to activate the thumb throttle which is a safety feature & I agree. The wide lcd display & the Shimano Altus8 speed shifter are great.
So the real question is - when and why are the prices on good or okay bikes gonna go down? Of course you "pay more for the lasting value and security", but it's still a bit too much in many cases.
The prices have dropped a lot in the past couple of years, I'm guessing they will continue to fall as competition creates pressure and ebikes become more mainstream in the US :)
Monopolies with advantages like patents and early entry control the prices in markets with limited access. They are a mfgr's dream scenario. Monopolies are price makers. Markets with untold numbers of sellers have perfect competition and sellers will fight back with sales pitches and unique designs or options, but sellers must accept they have no choice but to run perfectly efficient operations. Eventually they will become price takers in order to survive or they will fail. Makes it tough for dealers to add their own costs on for providing sources of local inventory. Consumers only see the prices advertised online and are conditioned to look for the best price. Price is everything in a competitive market. Ultimately it is price which will determine supply and demand.
Yes, prices will go down as the industry matures. Yes, charging over USD 1,000-1,200 is inexcusable, even when it comes with support service. Why the price 1,000-1,200: because 95-99% of US-sold ebikes are made in China, including big brands. 60-70% of them have same motor and battery as lesser-brand models that sell 2 times cheaper in the US (no to mention - in China). You don't get "service" with off-brand models, but you normally can find all electrical parts, and replacing motor or battery is easy. It is easy to find exact replacement motor and battery for a mid-priced ebike, but stay away from super-cheap bikes with proprietary battery hidden in the frame. "Lasting value" of ebike is a myth, especially if you pay +2,000. Resale value drops 20-30% after you've bought it, and then it drops few times more in 2-3 years due to outdated technology of electric parts and wear of motor and battery. Non-electrical parts and frame barely cost $400 new, so after a few years you'll be lucky to sell $3,000 bike for $500. It will still work, battery and motor are disposable/replaceable, but forget about selling or trading-in.
9:00 Every e-bike kit I've bought from different manufacturers, has failed prematurely. One lasted a day, another a week, another about 6 months. I lost $3K total. Never again... I'm only buying trusted brands and purpose built bikes. So far RadPower seems the best. Their customer service is great too, albeit for one stipulation: "if you cuss at us or are rude and disrespectful, we reserve the right to never do business with you again, and refuse all refunds or returns." Yikes.. lol.
are you saying $1500 - 2500 is reasonable price , for bike , and why are you pandering to people you interview ? you dont come across as honest , hope you understand my well meaning criticism
Most people only buy bikes from walmart for $100 to maybe $400 tops. This barely scratches the surface for bicycles. Most bicycles in bicycles shops start at $400 for entry models and can go up to $8000 for carbon fiber racing bikes. Im not saying everyone should get an $8000 bike or that its even good value but there is tremendous difference between a $400 walmart bike and a modest $1000 bike with a nice gear set, nice fork, aluminum frame, and hydraulic brakes. The smoothness of gear shifts with a mid ranged shimano group set is night and day compared to what they give you at walmart. I am explaining the bicycle market as a whole. It has always been like this since I was born. Simply putting a motor on these bikes can push them to the $1500 - $2500 mark easy. Especially when the battery itself cost $600. This is not some inflated price for the battery. This has always been the price for batteries. The batteries are made with something like 50 cylindrical 18650 cells and those cost $10-$15. Always been like that. The price for these bikes is just the actual market price rather than pure price gouging to pad bottom lines.
You know I have people coming to my store every day looking to purchase electric bikes the real question is what is the magic number. In my opinion it's $1000 I sell 24 different brands of electric bikes on my showroom floor. Bikes start from about $1100 to about $5000 out of the 250 different models that you can choose from I would say the average sale price is between $1500 to $2500. I have gone and listened to other people in the industry that have said you can't find a quality electric bike for under $1500 I disagree our number one selling bike is our least expensive bike and it is a quality built bike that has proven itself in the last four years I average 60 to 80 sales annually of this model its reliable safe and a great bang for your buck. If it wasn't I wouldn't sell it.
ElectricBikeReview.com bingo that's the one we have about 12 models on the showroom floor priced between 13 and $1500 but between 1000 and $1200 we only have three to four if you're looking for a bike for under 1000 from us you'll have to be purchasing a used bike and that's OK too so long as it's been checked out, The key to purchasing a used electric bike is finding someone with a load tester to make sure the batteries in good shape. We back our bikes with a 30 day Shop guarantee and have gone above and beyond what the manufacture covers. It is a bit risky when looking at used electric bikes so be careful out there.
its basic income logic.if americans have monthly salary what 4-5k they cannot afford bike more than 1k-2k.its hard thinking to buy a good electric bike. if i make 700-800 euros in my middle europe country ican only afford 400-500 chinese bike. bikes are cheap batteries are taking the price cake until you go lipo but you need how to handle those and be good prepared to tinker with them.
I see none of the bikes in the background have any suspension. Any motorcycle you can buy has a suspension. For that kind of money, I want shocks and springs front and rear. A big over sized heavy frame and a big price tag, no thanks.
Larry has some good points. I agree there maybe inflation from certain ends so that there is a profit. I'm into quality products, and like to get my money's worth. I recently bought an bike from online and some of the components are super cheap i e meaning they needed to be replaced. I actually had to replace the fork, stem and handlebars for my e-bike, and now it runs great. But the old adage tends to be true in most cases: you get what you pay for.
Totally, thanks for calling this out... Larry has been active in the forums for a LONG time and is involved in a bunch constructive of ways with the industry. I really enjoyed catching up with him and hearing his thoughts on these subjects :)
Agreed. Along with selling the idea of Raleigh bikes being superior when in reality, it’s not true. They’re selling a myth. I just bought a Juiced Scorpion and it cost a out half of what they’re asking for at Raleigh and it’s of great quality.
Ha! Well... I'll take a swing at it too. "Technology is evolving, our warranty has doubled and we've introduced more sizes, amazingly our bikes are cheaper this year than ever despite inflation"
@@ElectricBikeReview well, its quite expensive. its a speed controller, battery, and a motor. why are they so expensive?? just asking how much does it cost the company to get the parts?
@@sniperammow4865 half of what u pay battery are expensive my battery is 48v lithium for a 1000w watt and its 400.00 as of 2019 i whould be happy if it was 350.00 atleast
I learned absolutely nothing from this video! Why not first compare an electric bike which costs way more than my KLR (Kawazaki 650) with thousands of moving parts.... They have a long way to go IMHO.
John LeGresley the reason ebikes today are more expensive is because lithium ion batteries are a fairly new technology and the battery packs are still expensive to build. The beauty of ebikes and motorized bicycles is that there aren't nearly as many laws and regulations surrounding their use most places like there are with motorcycles. Also, you can build a really high end ebike for $1500 or less if you do your research. That is to say 30+mph for 50+ miles on one charge. You can still ride in all the bike lanes or go off road or anywhere a bike is allowed but do it much faster and power hills much more easily than a typical bicycle. That's the point. You can't pick up your motorcycle and carry it inside with you.
"high end ebike for $1500 or less if you do your research. That is to say 30+mph for 50+ miles on one charge......power hills much more easily " Please say where to buy the best kit. i weight 220lbs and also want 12magnet pedal assist. Where to begin and what to research. Please help. thanks
John LeGresley Funny you mention the KLR, my buddy just bought a brand new 2016 KLR 650 march 2018. Zero miles getting the old stock out the door price of $5900.00Canadian- Delivered to his house!! Why would anyone drop over 5 grand for an electric bicycle?? Hmmmm new motorcycle or be ebike. Same $$$ no contest.....
Your comment is a little old but thought I'd drop a line. Yea, battery prices are one variable but that still doesn't justify the 10 to 15k prices I"ve seen on some e-bikes. Those prices are just stupid. Generally speaking, the high prices on e-bikes are caused by what I call 'greedy group think' and niche market margin chasing in a hugely fragmented jungle. Now, I'm a free market capitalist so that is not all bad but it does get annoying after awhile, especially now that market has had some time to mature. I also find it annoying that so many e-bike shops won't work on e-bikes that aren't bought at their store. My advice to people who read this and something I've done.. is do your homework and build something yourself. You would be surprised what you can do with off the shelf parts and a not very expensive bike from Walmart. Or, buy an e-bike within your budge, enjoy it for awhile and upgrade it later. Maybe after the market matures awhile longer, things will get more realistic for the volume demographic.
my first digital watch cost me £59 back in the day, now same watch £5.00 so my advice ,buy cheep till you find if you will use it enough to justify a more expensive one
We’ve had our Raleigh Motus for over 2 years, using daily, carrying the dog, shopping and me too. Quality works better, costs less to maintain, and lasts 👍
No offense but I'm fairly confident that no one - whether it is Raleigh or anyone else - gives a crap about me once I shell out my money for their product whether it is $1000 or $6999 especially a year later. At that point - their ONLY concern is HOW can they get MORE money out of me. And I am CERTAIN that any company will FIRST AND FOREMOST do EVERYTHING in their power to AVOID Responsibility in the case that THEIR PRODUCT causes any kind of damage or injury. This guy is a true SALESMAN.
you say that but large name brands value their name and branding. Raleigh has a brand to protect. Thats the point in brands that cost more. Warranties have a value. Having said all that I am not in a position to spend this kind of money.
CanesFan65: Wow. You are the reason for all that you have mentioned. Nothing is your fault, lawsuits await and a warranty is just something to complain about. Please don't buy anything new again, you will be unhappy.
G Henrickson apparently you are offended. When people spend their hard earned money on a product - they expect to get a quality product - period. I've never spent my hard earned money hoping to get less than that. I hope you are not running a business because if you are you need a refresher course. Let me remind you - The Customer is NEVER WRONG!
Saying something like "The customer is NEVER WRONG!" Is a great way to run your business into the ground. It's important to take customers input seriously, help them with problems they have, and make it the best experience for them possible. But there are many times when the customer is wrong, and you have to politely tell them to go fuck themselves and you don't want their business. The company I worked for lost thousands because of my boss giving into customer bullshit, when we should have just stopped doing business with them.
they charge more cause they can. early adopters are getting reamed. for god sakes a motorcycle is LITERALLY a 100,000 times more complicated to manufacture. ebikes are NOT a 100% new product it's a bicycle with a motor I seriously doubt they had to do much R&D and new "engineering"
You're not up-to-date. The "Early Adopter" time is long gone. Some weeks ago I asked the guy from the bicycle store about the percentage of e-bikes he sells (compared to conventional bikes) and he said 50%. When I ride around on my e-bike, I see a rate of about 60%-80% e-bikes here in Munich. And hardly any of them is of the cheap variety. Almost all of them are pricy mid-motor models. It's mainstream for some time already.
Yes but when an e bike costs as much or really close to a Harley Davidson...then they NEED to explain themselves. Why would I pay $8,000 for something I can inly get 25 -120mi before I have to charge for 3-6 hours. When I could spend 5.00 and ride a REAL motorcylce for 150mi at 65 -80mph. Where is the incentive?? Doesn't make sense!!
there is no way in hell you're going to tell me that a electric bike is in the same category as a brand new motorcycle. A motorcycle has intricate and advanced technology and an electric bike is very basic but it cost the same? you can tell me about quality all you want till your blue in the face, its a God damn rip-off
There are less expensive ebikes and I agree that motorcycles tend to be more complex and heavy. Perhaps it's an economies of scale thing for now? They charge more because fewer are being sold and because the market is supporting it for now. I'm sure we'll see prices drop ongoing
Has nothing to do with scale - world-wide, scale is already there to make the product cheaper. What I suspect will happen is that the motorcycle industry will evolve toward electric, and once they start competing with ebikes, it'll be all over for the ebike industry's price manipulating strategy. Right now the motorcycle industry has voluntarily agreed to stay away, and they just sell electric motors to the ebike manufacturers, because the US market is just not tempting enough yet. Why do you think that that awesome Yahama ebike is not available in the US - the ebike industry is keeping them out? 5 years from now, when the US market is really ripe, you'll be able to buy a ebike like that from your Yahama dealer at a sensible price.
Jonathon Simon the problem right now is simply that the batteries in these bikes are too expensive, partially because of current tech and partially because of supply and demand. These bikes generally use the same battery cells that they use in laptops which are still pretty pricy for the higher end, reliable name brands.
DaveKillebrew The batteries cost at most $500, much less if you have a 36 volt 250 watt euro legal system. I agree it doesn't make sense that a motorcycle is cheaper, but motorcycles are made from steel frames and expensive bikes are aluminum. I think that is one of the issues. Much more exotic type materials to keep the weight down. Motorcycles don't worry about weight. Also Yamaha makes millions of motorcycles, and high end bikes are made by the thousands. Ebike pricing is comparable to regular pedal bikes. You aren't paying much more. It blows me away that diy builders spend thousands on expensive motors and batteries and put their gear on a big box bike they bought for a hundred dollars.
You can say that but the 1500 dollar bikes use the same batteries as the 5 thousand dollar ones...kind of kills your argument when the 1500 dollar bike is using the best batteries (Panasonic etc)
As the tech gets more advanced the cost goes down, these dealers are all trying to convince you otherwise. I remember paying 9k for a PC and 1200 for a DVD player, but now I can get those things for a tenth of the cost! I've built 3 ebikes so far and they rival the performance and build of any dealer bike and cost waaaaaaaay less. Now I'm on to building a e-motorcycle conversion that will cost waaaaaaaay less then your best ebikes.
For $4k you can get a Sur-ron with 200mm suspension travel, 1900wh battery, 6000w motor... From what I read it's reliable too. And it's beautiful. It's not exactly a bicycle, but you can get the idea how overpriced are these Bosch ebikes. It basically shares the same "hi-tech", but with 4 times better battery, better suspension, better engine, BETTER PRICE. Actually the problem is not with the ebikes, the problem is with all bicycle parts manufactures. Fox, shimano, sram, suntour, etc - they charge ridiculous money for what you get. Is not the fault in the bike manufactures They literally build the frame, and buy everything else from third party companies to mount on the bike.
@@TheDogsSide Custom frame construction has everything to do with price. Also battery construction has everything to do with price. Just because you use good cells doesn't mean the pack is put together in a quality way or that it has a quality controller. Also components will add to the price if they are top of the line. It will cost more for premium components than it will middle of the road and low end components.
duwaine Blake This is an old message but I thought I would give a differnt view. He gave quite a few reasons. You probably just didn't agree with them. He mentioned; 1. Ethics. Bikes made in china as an example exploit Chinese workers. It's a step above slavery for most of the chinese people. They also have forced labor camps in China. *I'm not saying if it's wrong just that he did mention ethics as an issue 2. Reliability - Parts are cheaper, don't last as long, made with inferior materials. More expensive bikes will use better parts that will last longer. 3. Customer Service - replacement parts might not be available for cheaper bikes, and some of these cheaper bike companies might not be here tomorrow. Some bike shops might not be willing to work on the cheaper bikes. 4. Safety - this one kind of overlaps with reliability. Cheap parts are more likely to break. If your frame or the fork breaks while riding that could be bad for safety. You do pay a premium for peace of mind. These were the main things he talked about. To me I see it like buying a car. There are cars that are cheaper and cars that are more expensive. The Yugo as an example was a dirt cheap car in the 1980's, however it's gone down in history as one of the worst cars ever made. Over the years I have seen many classic old cars on the roads like model T's, but I have not seen a running yugo since the 1980's. On the other side you have cars like the Tesla that are very expensive for the most part, but have lots of benefits, and are quite luxurious. Why anyone would be suprised that some e bikes are expensive and some are cheap is really confusing to me, as virtually everything we buy have expensive version and cheap versions. Computers, houses, clothing, food, cat litter, entertainment, almost everything. Another excellent example would be sunglasses. There is the old saying that you get what you pay for. Obviously that's not always true, there are exceptions, but it's probably true more often then not. I'm about to get a rad power bike, as it's about the best that I can afford, though I do agree that spending over $5000. seems a bit obscene, but if you can afford it and want it, then why not? Also keep in mind that if no one purchased these expensive bikes they wouldn't sell them. Higher prices are generally dictated by demand.
So I bought a Surly Pugsly frameset(700$) building wheelset with Roloff hub studded tires & Magura Mr5e brakes (3000$) +miscellaneous components all top of the line ( hub has lifetime warranty) most expensive vehicle I’ve ever owned but I built it - I trust every little part/ system on it In February I’ll buy/install a Luna bbshd with a 52 v 12ah battery pack x2( Fully potted/waterproof with genuine Panasonic cells) and fit a gates belt drive 3000$ Super spendy but I will never give the government or oil corporations a dime AND most of the bike was manufactured in USA(ie supporting American small businesses & manufacturing I live on a small island in S E Alaska with only 12-15 miles of paved road ( but hundreds of miles of logging roads ) i can do my shopping/laundry etc and hunt/ fish on most trails and the bike fits in a small skiff so I can go to other islands/ towns Oh yea and I have epilepsy &MS ( I will never be able to get a driving license again but don’t worry,if I have a seizure while riding I will only hurt myself) there is very little public transportation here and nobody is offering a ride and as I have no sensation in my left leg/arm I can’t walk far When my body started betraying me I just wanted to curl up and die-I rarely left the house- everything I loved to do ( hiking hunting climbing kayaking) was too hard and hurt. I almost gave up, I mean why bother- l don’t have kids or a wife - no more commercial fishing ( my job) Then a friend lent me his bike to get home one day and I MADE IT HOME( 3.8 miles is way too far for me to walk)with out a ride or a cab EUREKA independence (not a burden so much for my friends/community). So I built my fat bike- it’s been a life saver Now I can barely pedal so I’m getting a motor with a throttle- hopefully I’ll still be able to get out on it for another 5+ years I do realize I’m a very niche market but my bike (Ebike soon) will hopefully keep me out of an ALF for another ?decade? High quality Ebike super super expensive--getting some of my old life back- priceless
"Why are some electric bikes so expensive?!" , a hard hitting, in-depth inquiry by ElectricBikeReview.com. Who's kidding who here? It's a ten minute advertisement for Larry Pizzi's bikes. I don't know if he payed for the airtime, but there was no-one to put the other side of the question, namely Yes, electric bikes are too expensive.
Costumers don't care about spending "a bit more" for that extra security and reliability... but you're talking about the difference in a 1k and 8k electric bike! What large companies don't tell you is that you're spending an extra thousand at least for the brand logo and maybe a better paint job, not better quality equipment...
And that brand name also comes with reputation, also you can find a 2k ebike, from the big 3 or other manufacturers, you can even get a 1k ebike from decathlon, it's not like anything that isn't a no name brand is 8k
I live in the South of France and have just purchased my first electric bike a Kalkhoff Include evo i8 step through. I bought it from the UK because it was cheaper than buying in France and they are transporting it free. People say why such an expensive bike? Well I can afford the best so why not. People never look at a Ferrari or Porsche and say why such an expensive car. I'm a fit 75 but I don't want to dress in ridiculous lycra and wear funny shoes nor do I want to sit on a razor blade plus I don't like hills. So electric is the way to go.
the raleigh velo trail i had was utter crap, motor broke in 18 months, torque sensor replaced 3 times, power cable to motor replaced once, computer replaced once. I gave up and bought a decent mtb instead
There are e-bikes, and e-bikes, but compared to regular bikes, electric bikes prices are justified...now, when compared to conventional motorcycles, they really leave something to be desired.
so for 4000 bucks you can get a sweet electric bike or you can buy two M16A2 with 300 rounds. Or you can buy a used car with AC, doors, locks, power steering, power brakes, radio, wind shield, wipers, motor, radiator and all the electrical work, exhaust system and functional electrical battery.... Hmmm seems right. T_T
Bikes come almost completely assembled. Handlebars turned sideways, saddle removed. Long pack has the front wheel installed, short pack has the front wheel packed beside the bike. Pedals are turned around to the inside or packed in a box. I never had to do major assembly. Touch up wheel truing, check brake and gear adjustment.
I had a simular conversation at Canadian Tire the other day. There were two Rallies (ebikes) and CT wanted $2600 each. Thats a bit pricy considering the Ah of the batteries and the hub size and the fella next to me mentioned the he got a better deal on amazon for a better bike. His face was priceless when i asked him who services his chineese bike.
This guys sounds like the owner of a typical car dealer.... look into my eyes.. its the experience your after, support after the sale.. who will be there to “help” you. Favorite... “important that all the cells are balanced”. Really? “If a cell has a problem... the pack cuts off to prevent a fire”. Good things he’s not a Tesla engineer...
From my experience, Raleigh Electric and the Accel group just is great with aftersale service. I had an experience where Larry came in and went out of his way to make sure that I'd be happy with my bike. Really happy I did not give in to cheap stuff. Now ridding the Redux Ie with the Brose motor and loving it.
Not to criticize but most bikes can handle a large fluctuation in weight. (at 8:00). A bike frame will not break if you weigh 150 or 300 pounds! Torque? I have stood up on the pedals and only managed to stretch the chain which can and will lead to sprocket wear. No frame damage and a easy cheap fix.
Hate to say it, but I bought a more expensive brand bike. And I happy I did. I looked at some bargain bikes. The breaks, motor, drive train and frame were just not as well built as the more expensive bikes. No regrets.
Specialized Turbo Como 4. I’m older and not likely to fix a bike myself. I needed something a local bike shop can work on. That limited brands. Then I wanted one that was as I described above plus comfortable. It’s a lot of fun. The company has been good. The first battery had a problem. When they sent the new one, it was higher powered than the one I was supposed to get. The LBS said they did that because of the inconvenience to me. Makes sense but I didn’t expect it.
i think the biggest reason people buy the cheap stuff it that for some of the basic prices of a quality and assembled ebike you can get a new traditional motorcycle. also it does not help that ebikes have limitations for weight. i know that may not seem like a big deal but for me i am 6'2" and 265lbs but i have a near normal fat percentage at 240lbs. i see the 240lb notation on ebikes and get turned off. i basically have to be in top shape in order to feel comfortable buying a ebike. i know that the weight is a suggestion but still $2k and up for a ebike... or about 2k for a new motorbike that i can go anywhere. i guess you can say that ebikes are still new to the overall market so time is needed to adress those concerns.
I feel like the space is making progress, prices are coming down and you get a different experience from ebikes than with motorcycles... it's just different, perhaps more expensive, but different in good ways too :)
ElectricBikeReview.com progress is definitely happening and prices are falling. But these cheaper companies come about cause there definitely is a need for product in that price range that a random consumer feels like their money is not waisted on the purchase.
Eeeeh. I treat ebikes like PCs and laptops. There is a dropping curve of value vs. price. High end luxury items give you less and less bang for your buck the more expensive they get. Somewhere in the middle price range works best for most people. And when I say middle, I don't mean car or motorcycle prices, lol. Some treat eBikes with the rationality a luxury car dealer would, to try to sell people on it. Batteries are improving so dramatically though, that investing in a quality 10yr life expectancy ebike makes about as much sense as a 10yr laptop. Also never underestimate the diy community!
Truth be told its hard to pay for a bike that cost the same as a car. Their are motorcycles even electric motorcycle ie zero that are competitively priced with these bikes. I think this will be the biggest hinder that keeps the e bike from really taking off.
One thing that wasn't mentioned in the review, when parts like the mid drive motor is manufactured in limited quantities, the cost of each motor goes way up, but if you can manufacture motors in large quntities the cost goes way down. Such is the case with the rear drive motors. The industry is changing, fat tire bikes with rear drive motors and large batteries, are becoming a useful commodity, which can be used for more than a joy ride once or twice a week, it's becoming a mode of transportation.
The real answer is electric bikes are in the "Growth" stage of the product life cycle where companies reap the most profit per item sold. This happens in every industry on the planet. The prices will decrease over time as the masses adapt to the electric bike. Companies recognize where they are in the cycle and are taking advantage of it. I will say that spending less than $1K on a bike is foolish.
Well said, there are different phases and with lower volume and an unproven market right now the margins are higher... but more competitors are entering and prices are falling :)
I dont buy this explanation for high prices for several reasons. 1) Electric bike are in a growth stage in the US; in Asia they are already mass produced, so economies of scale are already there. 2) The tech on electric bikes is really pretty low tech. Its not like an iphone7 circuitboard - its all off the shelf (mass produced motors, controllers, and batteries), and the frame and components are nothing new. The whole bike industry is a rip-off, not just electric bikes. The Industry players squelch competition by preventing their dealers (and the dealers actually drive this) from pricing competitively. If a dealer would discount a bike lower than allowed by the manufacturer, then they are subject to loosing their contract with that manufacturer. Even selling outside the dealers region (i.e. on the Internet) is restricted-I'm not sure if this is still the case, but probably so (as I am looking right now at a Performance Bicycle catalog which contains none of the major brands). This Industry is not a free-market so greed will prevail. I do agree with your 2nd statement that spending less that $1000 would be foolish, unless you are a DIY. Even then, just getting a decent from/components just to start with will get you close to that.
I was talking about 'growth stage' as a coined marketing stage, not as a product development stage. Either way , we agree at the end of the day but for different reasons. Cheers.
completely true. Pedego, for example forbids it's dealers from offering ANY form of discount or sale promotions. corporate uses the tired excuse that it "cheapens" the brand. selfish marketing B.S., yet, it effectively keeps prices artificially high. (not a competitor, I own one.) THATS what I mean about purchasing what YOU want/need. (health wise as well).
Compared to what I'm saving on gas, I'm pretty happy with the price, and the newer mid motors are so reliable , they go on forever even if used on turbo mostly
To sum it up, you're paying for the novelty as with any 'new technology'. The only thing I can think of really is a probably a better battery management system and support and warranty should anything go wrong with the ebike within the coverage period.
I have a Gazelle NL. I live a hilly area, and use it as a vehicle. Price is less than a cheap used car. It was manufactured in a country where workers are paid and treated fairly. Very happy with my choice.
EBR,i was referring to BME bikes(northridge CA) not BMS, i wasent bashing there bikes, they have great ebikes, but i got a couple of the bad apple ebikes from them, tim was very helpful in trying to solve my problems with the bikes on the phone, im just saying that bying any ebike online is tricky because you cant get the support that you may need if something go wrong and u have to ship a ebike with batteries from NY to CALF...cory and sams online info helped a great deal with many ebike problems i have..
Hey I like your reviews man. Find em really helpful. Don't listen to the haters. Hey I'm a cheap bastard, but you can't compare a Kia to a BMW or Merc. Want cheap buy your ebike on alibaba, want quality buy from a traditional supplier. Don't hate on someone who's just trying to inform.
To me it seems a mixture of status symbol coupled with quality. My $600. e-bike has a generic battery that is not well integrated into the frame, the cables are on the outside of the frame and it has cable disk brakes as opposed to the better hydraulic type. It has a 250 watt hub motor and a 36 amp battery. No bells or whistles, only a horn. I love to watch the EBR reviews on the top end bikes as they are a work of art and I learn a lot about systems and engineering along with quality. I bought my bike for fun and I get fun. I am not disappointed at all. It does boil down to what we can afford and what we want. I am glad that we have fords and chevys along with BMWs and Caddies. To me the ebike market is like the car market before it became the big3, we had Studebakers, Hudsons, Packards to just name a few and the variety made life better.
When I bought a old motorcycle I saved so much money learning mechanics that I can do all repairs on a motorcycle myself. If I bought a new fancy bike then I would be a dumb consumer.
I live in a small town that's very involved with rich people loving bikes and none of the bike shops are ripping people off like this video and we're probably one of the top 10 places of mountain biking.
Just a way to say let me rip you off. Lol. Every bike has Wes and tear and eventually you'll upgrade what's most needed on a bike with a kit. I'd rather build my own for 2k to 2500 and get better quality, speed and a bigger battery. 7k or more for a bike is ridiculously over priced. Everything he talked about was just a bullshit script to sell a product. Great video discussing why not to waste money 👍
Buying local at a bike dealership means you pay for overhead! 60-300hour! If you buy cheep be ware! Frames, sprockets, batteries and controls! Research! You may be buying just junk! Read forums but watch out here too! Research research and research! I’m in the market for a good ebike! Been looking for 6 months! Still researching!
One of the biggest reason why good ebikes and good ebike kits are so expensive, is the battery. I recently installed a electric assist system on my bike from EBikekits.com. Its a very good kit with very good customer service, but the battery, 48 volts at 10 amps, actually cost more then the kit itself, i.e. 20 inch front wheel with Direct drive motor, controller, LCD monitor, E assist controller, two different types of throttles, and good brake levers with the power interrupt thing on them. So I got a lot in the kit, but the battery still cost more, oh, its a LithIon battery. And I have found with all the gadgets that use LithIon batterys, that the battery is often increases the cost of the item by 40 too 50%. So yes a good battery will cost you a lot for a Ebike.
The problem is with people who cant afford the price tag not that the bike is a rip off.Some people are just cheap and complain about non issue topics.I for one would say that a Ferrari is a rip off but it NOT one because the desire is still there to own one.So when a person says the price is the issue that's when you know they are just poor or to cheap to commit to owning the product.
I try to be compassionate and understanding but your point is an excellent one. A product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. I love that there are options but am not going to call a cheaper, lower quality or less visually appealing ebike junk just like I'm not going to call a $10k special edition ebike a ripoff. They just exist, and we're lucky that companies are trying new things :)
I totally agree with you and I'm glad there are loads of options for everyone and what their price point can afford.I would never call any bike junk if they are happy with it then that's great.Me,myself and I would personally never buy a cheaper bike only because I can afford what I like and what I like isn't cheap.Now with that said I live a normal life I'm not by no means rich but I save for what I like/want.The next bike on my list to own is a specialized levo which will happen by summer time.
I'm in the process of building one myself. Rear wheel drive 1500 watt motor kit, 52 volt 20 amp hr. battery on my mountain bike. If the frame wares out I can buy a new one at Walmart for 150.00 and switch the hardware over.
If china has a really big market for e bikes, i expect them to have quite an experience. That transfers to almost all products: If a country is known to have good beer, because they have a brewery every 5km, you know they compete and you know they got a certain level. So the whole argument about safety and reliablity is just bullshit, sorry to say that. Ive seen malfunctioning Bosch bikes and asian e bikes that behaved weirdly. they both were covered by warranty. For Bosch its about reputation, so the try to satisfy so quickly. to any store or seller on amazon its about the product reviews, a 1* review is the worst thing ever. What was the difference? 3000 dollhairs. Sure, the components of a 600$ bike are lower quality than the components of a 3000-4000$ bike. Sure you need to adjust it yourself. But getting 4-5 e bikes for the price of one is really a big gap to justify. The Lithium battery market in asia is also really big. The big companies produce in the same factories as the noname brands. this kind of battery is not brandnew, we had a couple of years and it is quite well understood. Talking about Samsung, pardon me, is that a cheap or insecure phone company in your opinion? I bet you and this other guy had one at one point in their life. what a double standard. The kit argument is mostly invalid as well. 20 pounds of components make a frame unreliable? So if I (80kg) a small kid (50kg) and a really big guy (like 150kg) buy the same bike the fat guy is going to brake the frame? lol. (concerning torque: yes, this is right. a FWD kit would put a different time of stress on a bike. but a RWD kit? maybe your chain will fail if you oversize your motor and flor it, but its the same when you would put in a high gear and pedal like a berzerk everyday with that gear. ) If china is a big producer of e bikes, a big seller, and has a big local market on them i need to ask this question: How can you justify a difference of factor 5 between a cheap bike and a high end one? Yes the high end one will last longer probably. The components will feel and look better. But by my countries laws, the both deliver the same kind of power to support your drive. It's like comparing a 10 000 dollar car to a 50 000 car that has almost NO extras. I know developement costs but to the consumer this is a big gap. I wouldnt mind of the bike would cost twice as much for being prestige with good components, but 4-5 times the costs? no thanks. If my china battery brakes down some day (it has no signs of failure so far) it would set me back 150-200$. A Bosch battery itself will cost as much as my whole bike.
Laughing so hard. He proves there as 100% no reason to pay 3k to 8K. People really need to shop and learn, watch videos, and reviews. I have 3 e-bikes under $2000 each that are fantastic and zero issues for a year now. My wife and I ride almost daily, Samsung 48V battery has been charged every night and works perfect. We have radrover and radmini and I would put them up to any other bike. I also have a Luna 1000W bafang mid I put on my TREK mountain bike with 52V battery for $1400 and it will climb anything and go faster than I need to go.
I am less than $1000 all in on my Sondors thin with extras!i've had it a year and it's been flawless go anywhere I want charge and recharge! If something goes wrong with it I'll Mod it.... I like the company so much I just ordered the new Sondors fold X!! don't kid yourself you can have trouble with these high-end bikes too!!
A lot of these bikes are more expensive than quality motorcycles and scooters that have much more engineering and far more materials and parts. Right now these bike companies need to sell these 5-7k bike for 1.5-2k. Their price points are far off. Hopefully companies like radbike can drive these prices down. I have heard very few complaints about radbikes that sell at much more reasonable prices. It's going to be years before we see quality bikes for a reasonable price from the big manufacturers .
You are charging 3times what I pay for rent your asking for 1% of my yearly income I'm on ssi an ebiks would be ideal for transport for me and other veterans with limited income.
If you aren't adept at bicycle mechanics, it is in your best interest to support local bike shops with your purchase as well as your service dollars. The majors won't build these if we race to the bottom with cheap internet kickstarts, and the benefits of a well built factory design are apparent if you take the time to look carefully. I built my own ebike several years ago because it was good performance for money, but for the same money today, I could buy a slightly less powerful factory bike, out the door, and the motor wouldn't need constant work, like my Bafang motor has. If folks aren't familiar with how expensive bicycles have gotten in general, it's easy for them to assume factory ebikes are a ripoff. Again, get informed about bikes and you realize that if these are used for commuting they are reasonably priced.
The answer is R&D and production. A lot of money goes into developing the technology (most of which is still relatively new) and until ebikes really take off and create a competitive market whereby component and production costs are reduced, many ebikes will remain expensive. In another 5 years I would expect costs to reduce significantly, but you will still see high-end handmade (R&M) ebikes, and lower priced decent ones as well (Raleigh). Personally, I am more likely to spend $5k on an ebike than $1k on a standard bike. Essentially they do the same thing, but I would use an ebike almost everyday as a proper car/public transport alternative, compared to a standard bike which I would only use occasionally for a leisurely weekend ride. As long as the quality and serviceability is there, and I enjoyed and got proper use out of it, the cost is secondary. But there are cheaper options and it is a very personal choice. If it's too expensive, buy a kit and adapt a standard bike.
The problem I have is the style for $800 to $2,000 ebikes is very similar to each other. A step through for my wife can cost $899 or $3,900. The fat tire bike I want is $2,399 because I don’t want spokes. So the issue I have seen is there are very limited choices her in California for “made in the U.S.A.” after going to 11 bike and ebike stores-the bikes have about 5 different styles and just have slightly different battery, hub, frame design, and either low or high quality derailers, brakes, tires and handlebars. Very frustrating. Too many choices but not what I want.
Agreed. The "value" argument is the usual bullshit sellers use when they know they´re selling some ridiculously expensive shit, and have no other arguments. I do have the money to buy an e-bike and then some, but I totally understand people who scream in pain when they look at these prices. According to my own estimations, you usually need to spend for an e-bike around 4-5 times the amount of money you would spend for a regularbike, with almost identical components. That´s ridiculous for the overwhelming majority of the population, for obvious reasons. Heck, the other day I stumbled upon a VW dealer where they were selling a used CAR in mint condition, 2yr guarantee, for LESS money than some of the bikes featured on this channel. Should we use the "value" argument then? Should we use it with a state-of-the-art 5.000$ Iphone? Nah, these are just ridiculously expensive products for those of us who have the money AND are stupid enough to pay it, that´s about it. (Sorry, Court... ;)
I don't need an apology, I don't sell ebikes, my goal is to review a whole bunch and help people find the right one for their lifestyle/budget or decide it's not right :)
I don't think your viewers including myself are asking for your apology but I hope you at least understand the criticism. You asked a very good question and I was hoping for an actual answer but Larry's answer to your good question was that they provide expertise and after purchase service that justifies the high price and then giving a patronizing false answer about battery cells, etc. Most ebikes are built in China with Chinese components. We all know that. We all know the importance with batteries and battery management systems, etc. What I was hoping to hear was some sort of insight into recognizing true value of the ebikes on market so that consumers are able to recognize when they are getting ripped off and when a bike is a good deal, etc. Instead Larry just gave a patronizing, entirely off-putting, sales pitch about why high price for ebikes is good. Waste of your viewers' time.
Something perfectly obvious, Court. In the very same way I was expecting to be obvious with my ";)" that I was neither offering you "an apology", nor thinking that you "need" one... ";)" again...
I have two. the specialized turbo levo and the turbo x. I also have a full carbon giant carbon force MTB which cost more and I have to tell you. I haven't touched my giant since I bought the levo MTB. the only difference is I can travel further deeper into steep terrain that I couldn't before. I still get the same workout if not more. it's more fun it's just amazing these bikes. I haven't tried many others and the ones i have don't compare. these two kick ass. anyone who says otherwise just hasn't ridden one. Specialized service is horrid but that's doesn't keep me from these bikes. I look to the day a better company can do it better. I truly can't say enough. I don't use my turbo x much since buying the turbo levo MTB but find it very hard to part with.
i bought the ancheer AM004142 250w e bike a year ago took only 1 week to arrive from swordyall in cina for for 770 gbp great value still works every day for work great bike for first timer
The main problem to me with “expensive” ebikes is the they are bikes. They are likely to be used a lot when they are new and novel and then set aside for months or years before they get drafted out again. On a regular bike, no worries. The eBike though is gonna be a brick. A 3,4 or 5 thousand dollar brick.
I am waiting for my ebike, right now. I went with a Himiway. I had heard nothing but positive things about it. The reviews, are great and I am looking into bike paths to ride. I am very excited about getting my bike.
There's one question that I just thought about, "does expensive equal better?" I have heard stories from other ebike owners that have had nothing but negative comments about their bikes. So, does expensive equal quality?
Considering that I've never spent more than $150 on a new non-powered bike, even the $800 Sondors is expensive to me. I just don't ride enough to justify the cost. However, to be fair, typical high quality non-powered bikes easily cost over $3000. Just go to your local bike shop and you'll see. And you can easily find a $10,000 Non-powered bike. Point is, if you compare with a high quality non-powered bike, the ebike prices seem a lot more reasonable. Some of you use motorcycles as a comparison - instead of picking the low end used motorcycle as an example, why don't you use a new top of the line $30,000 Harley davidson as an example. There's always going to be a market for the low end and the high end and both ends are justifiable.
A decent DIY bike can also get very expensive, but at least you can fix it yourself if a controller goes out or BMS blows. As long as there is service available to repair an ebike, I wouldn't mind spending on a decent bike. Most my my LBS stopped selling or servicing ebikes due to customer returning the bikes due to faulty BMS.
Important to remember that not everyone *can* afford a 6000 dollar ebike over a 1500 dollar one. Radpower isn't the *best* company, but they make decent bikes that basically everyone can afford. The thing I think I like the least about the ebike industry is the push for people to buy 8-10k dollar euro bikes or else their bike might explode or collapse.
Gotta say both my Sondors fat bike and thin bike are the charm. $800 each. They are custom engineered as e-bikes, delivered within 2 weeks of my order, and I enjoyed the assembly and adjustment but this may not be for everyone. Importantly I saved literally thousands versus showroom e-bikes.
Nice! Glad you're having a good time with it. The Sondors did a great job keeping prices low and delivering on their promises (mostly). Some of the crowd-funder folks reported having to wait longer and getting different colors than they wanted but I thought the bike worked out pretty well overall :)
Your show is great. You should consider doing a show about what goes into owning a evoke store from location capital outlay marketing employees etc. The second show should highlight ways to finance your bike what are the best companies in the space the good and the bad.
I think some people are missing the point of value versus cost. Frankly having owned a " first generation " electric bike at £1700.00 I would probably never go back to another one as I was going to have to pay £600.00 to replace a battery. There are bike conversions out there for as little as £200.00 maybe even less. I could get an old bike for £20.00 and convert it. If idiots want to spend thousands then carry on.
The stealth bomber B-52 E-Bike has a top speed of 50 miles an hour and cost $10,000, I could go out right now and get my motorcycle license and a motorcycle for a lot less.
This convinced me to buy a less expensive e bike. Thanks
Help Me Get 1000 Subscribers, what the hell does manufactured ethically even mean? Is it that they pay lower labor rates than in other countries? Would you rather see those people starve?
@Help Me Get 1000 Subscribers I'm more concerned about safety tbh, not going to ride an e bike full of lithium cells that was manufactured by a no name company
Good for you, DIY is the way to go 👍👍
I think the same. The response was... bland, at best. The main reason they are more expensive is because of where they are manufactured. All the rest sound like mère excuses, with vague and ambiguous moral concepts.
An electric bicycle should NOT be more expensive than a motorcycle. PERIOD!
trump fault tax tariff increase
And motorcycles shouldn't be so expensive.
@Chris Duane and he increased It by more america is slavery not freedom whats free
there are plenty of reasons a bike can be more expensive than a motorcycle, doesn't mean you should be the one buying it.
First words I taught my children not to use were should, shouldn't, fair, assume.
I can remember when "V" brakes cost well over $100. The "latest & greatest" always costs more. It's just a matter of time before E-technology trickles down to actual affordability.
It's funny I have a $1500 ebike and a $3200 ebike and there are diminishing returns where the more expensive ebike doesn't feel 2-3x better than a cheaper bike AT FIRST, but down the road you start to notice all the niceties on the more expensive ebike and you appreciate a lot of the more expensive components.
The best bicycle I have ever had was a 100$ fully damped one bought at Wallmart in Havaii USA... To get anything close to that here in Norway it would cost me at lest 2000 to 3000$, something is very wrong when it comes to prising on bicycles both with and without engines. Here in Norway you can get a fully damped pedal assist scooter for about 1100$, but a fully damped electric bike that have much smaller battery and is much more simple cost 4000 - 6000 and up, where is the logic in that ?
Is the scooter is electric?
Most Electric scooters are suicide on 2 wheels.
My only concern is that an ebike for $3000 seems out of wack when I can buy a brand new 2017 Kawasaki Vulcan S for $6000 A motorcycle with far more complex mechanical & computer engineering at 10x the weight.. As weird as it may sound, it does boil down to dollars per pound... Even with low-production inefficiencies, ebike cost should retail between $600 and $1000 per unit.. We can only hope that profits made now will lead to a more stable industry with a lower cost & higher quality unit as the market segment matures..
Good point Mark, I think as we reach volume and payback on some of the investments in Ebike technology the prices will lower... and with competition ;)
think of it this way, I live in a smallish town ( 40000) there's 3 motorcycle shops now my mate owns two of them they sell about 40 bikes each shop per month so say thats around 120 to 140 motorbikes a month between the 3 shops, Now lets move to bigger cities !!!!!!! . Its all about volume and manufacturing. your motorbike is built by robots and probably takes about 15min to build and assemble. This is the difference
NOT to mention bringing new tech to market. those seemingly high "go fund me" amounts requested are a pittance when matched to a successful launch of any new product.
Mark S you're not taking into consideration that lithium battery powered vehicles are a fairly new technology. As the demand increases, tech will get cheaper. Most of the mass produced ebikes out there won't go over 20mph and will only take you 10-15 miles before the battery dies. Some companies sell manufactured ebikes like that for upwards of $7,000. If you want a high end battery powered bike that can go 30+ mph at 50+ miles, the only cost effective way is to do your research and build it yourself. When you do that you also gain the knowledge of how to service your own bike so it's not just a heap of junk to toss in a year when it breaks down.
Mark S also, you're not taking into consideration that most states don't require you to register ebikes or gas motor bikes as motorized vehicles if they're under a certain speed or level of power. And one last factor, that ebikes just need to be plugged into the wall and you don't have to pay for gas every few trips.
I just bought an Aventon Pace 500 Stepthrough for $1399.00 with powerful 750 watts motor top speed is 28 mph, 20 mph on throttle only. I tried many ebikes in the past & in my opinion this Aventon Pace 500 Step is the best affordable ebike made with excellence in craftsmanship, engineering and design. I have nothing negative to say. I am in love with my Aventon Pace 500 Stepthrough. It is perfect. I love the Stepthrough design. No need to lift my leg to mount it. It is a lightweight 48 pounds. Powerful and quiet that can go uphill like a breeze, great powerful hydraulic disc brake, great pedal assist which helps me at the traffic light stop for an easy & fast get away with just light pedaling. The Samsung battery is a powerful 48 volts with a range of 30 miles. To use the thumb throttle you have to pedal first to activate the thumb throttle which is a safety feature & I agree. The wide lcd display & the Shimano Altus8 speed shifter are great.
I bought a conversion kit for $130. Added a 20Ah battery for $160. Been riding the bike for a year. Great deal.
Yeh but that will be a rear hub or front hub motor and battery range will be limited. You pay for what you get.
So the real question is - when and why are the prices on good or okay bikes gonna go down? Of course you "pay more for the lasting value and security", but it's still a bit too much in many cases.
The prices have dropped a lot in the past couple of years, I'm guessing they will continue to fall as competition creates pressure and ebikes become more mainstream in the US :)
Monopolies with advantages like patents and early entry control the prices in markets with limited access. They are a mfgr's dream scenario. Monopolies are price makers. Markets with untold numbers of sellers have perfect competition and sellers will fight back with sales pitches and unique designs or options, but sellers must accept they have no choice but to run perfectly efficient operations. Eventually they will become price takers in order to survive or they will fail. Makes it tough for dealers to add their own costs on for providing sources of local inventory. Consumers only see the prices advertised online and are conditioned to look for the best price. Price is everything in a competitive market. Ultimately it is price which will determine supply and demand.
Yes, prices will go down as the industry matures.
Yes, charging over USD 1,000-1,200 is inexcusable, even when it comes with support service.
Why the price 1,000-1,200: because 95-99% of US-sold ebikes are made in China, including big brands. 60-70% of them have same motor and battery as lesser-brand models that sell 2 times cheaper in the US (no to mention - in China). You don't get "service" with off-brand models, but you normally can find all electrical parts, and replacing motor or battery is easy. It is easy to find exact replacement motor and battery for a mid-priced ebike, but stay away from super-cheap bikes with proprietary battery hidden in the frame.
"Lasting value" of ebike is a myth, especially if you pay +2,000. Resale value drops 20-30% after you've bought it, and then it drops few times more in 2-3 years due to outdated technology of electric parts and wear of motor and battery. Non-electrical parts and frame barely cost $400 new, so after a few years you'll be lucky to sell $3,000 bike for $500. It will still work, battery and motor are disposable/replaceable, but forget about selling or trading-in.
You're paying for people's insurance, retirement, salary, vacation. God Bless
9:00 Every e-bike kit I've bought from different manufacturers, has failed prematurely. One lasted a day, another a week, another about 6 months. I lost $3K total. Never again... I'm only buying trusted brands and purpose built bikes. So far RadPower seems the best. Their customer service is great too, albeit for one stipulation: "if you cuss at us or are rude and disrespectful, we reserve the right to never do business with you again, and refuse all refunds or returns." Yikes.. lol.
are you saying $1500 - 2500 is reasonable price , for bike , and why are you pandering to people you interview ? you dont come across as honest , hope you understand my well meaning criticism
Most people only buy bikes from walmart for $100 to maybe $400 tops. This barely scratches the surface for bicycles. Most bicycles in bicycles shops start at $400 for entry models and can go up to $8000 for carbon fiber racing bikes. Im not saying everyone should get an $8000 bike or that its even good value but there is tremendous difference between a $400 walmart bike and a modest $1000 bike with a nice gear set, nice fork, aluminum frame, and hydraulic brakes. The smoothness of gear shifts with a mid ranged shimano group set is night and day compared to what they give you at walmart.
I am explaining the bicycle market as a whole. It has always been like this since I was born. Simply putting a motor on these bikes can push them to the $1500 - $2500 mark easy. Especially when the battery itself cost $600. This is not some inflated price for the battery. This has always been the price for batteries. The batteries are made with something like 50 cylindrical 18650 cells and those cost $10-$15. Always been like that. The price for these bikes is just the actual market price rather than pure price gouging to pad bottom lines.
You know I have people coming to my store every day looking to purchase electric bikes the real question is what is the magic number. In my opinion it's $1000 I sell 24 different brands of electric bikes on my showroom floor. Bikes start from about $1100 to about $5000 out of the 250 different models that you can choose from I would say the average sale price is between $1500 to $2500. I have gone and listened to other people in the industry that have said you can't find a quality electric bike for under $1500 I disagree our number one selling bike is our least expensive bike and it is a quality built bike that has proven itself in the last four years I average 60 to 80 sales annually of this model its reliable safe and a great bang for your buck. If it wasn't I wouldn't sell it.
Hey Sam, is that the EG Athens?
ElectricBikeReview.com bingo that's the one we have about 12 models on the showroom floor priced between 13 and $1500 but between 1000 and $1200 we only have three to four if you're looking for a bike for under 1000 from us you'll have to be purchasing a used bike and that's OK too so long as it's been checked out, The key to purchasing a used electric bike is finding someone with a load tester to make sure the batteries in good shape. We back our bikes with a 30 day Shop guarantee and have gone above and beyond what the manufacture covers. It is a bit risky when looking at used electric bikes so be careful out there.
Which bikes you recommend? Name names.
there is no real magic number though. and there is not one-size-fits all. at $1000 I would not be able to get what I want out of my bicycle.
its basic income logic.if americans have monthly salary what 4-5k they cannot afford bike more than 1k-2k.its hard thinking to buy a good electric bike.
if i make 700-800 euros in my middle europe country ican only afford 400-500 chinese bike.
bikes are cheap batteries are taking the price cake until you go lipo but you need how to handle those and be good prepared to tinker with them.
I see none of the bikes in the background have any suspension. Any motorcycle you can buy has a suspension. For that kind of money, I want shocks and springs front and rear. A big over sized heavy frame and a big price tag, no thanks.
Larry has some good points. I agree there maybe inflation from certain ends so that there is a profit. I'm into quality products, and like to get my money's worth. I recently bought an bike from online and some of the components are super cheap i e meaning they needed to be replaced. I actually had to replace the fork, stem and handlebars for my e-bike, and now it runs great. But the old adage tends to be true in most cases: you get what you pay for.
I would like buy a e bike but will wait until the price comes down.
Over the Years I have seen Larry Post and help people multiple times on bike forums. This guy really stands behind his products!
Totally, thanks for calling this out... Larry has been active in the forums for a LONG time and is involved in a bunch constructive of ways with the industry. I really enjoyed catching up with him and hearing his thoughts on these subjects :)
Cloud Base n
The answer is simply greed!!
Agreed. Along with selling the idea of Raleigh bikes being superior when in reality, it’s not true. They’re selling a myth. I just bought a Juiced Scorpion and it cost a out half of what they’re asking for at Raleigh and it’s of great quality.
He’s talking about battery packs . . . Although very important, the manufacturing of battery packs is not rocket science.
I can sum it up for you: Technology is evolving more and more. We want to be richer and richer. So we rip the hell off you.
Ha! Well... I'll take a swing at it too. "Technology is evolving, our warranty has doubled and we've introduced more sizes, amazingly our bikes are cheaper this year than ever despite inflation"
Anonymous Ted ii
@@ElectricBikeReview well, its quite expensive. its a speed controller, battery, and a motor. why are they so expensive?? just asking how much does it cost the company to get the parts?
@@sniperammow4865 half of what u pay battery are expensive my battery is 48v lithium for a 1000w watt and its 400.00 as of 2019 i whould be happy if it was 350.00 atleast
@Chris Duane not helping with trumps tariff
It took almost 11 minutes of banality to say 'You get what you pay for'. A totally wasted opportunity for a decent review.
"premium product" is code for fluff and inflated profit margin. Just like luxury cars.
I learned absolutely nothing from this video! Why not first compare an electric bike which costs way more than my KLR (Kawazaki 650) with thousands of moving parts.... They have a long way to go IMHO.
John LeGresley the reason ebikes today are more expensive is because lithium ion batteries are a fairly new technology and the battery packs are still expensive to build. The beauty of ebikes and motorized bicycles is that there aren't nearly as many laws and regulations surrounding their use most places like there are with motorcycles. Also, you can build a really high end ebike for $1500 or less if you do your research. That is to say 30+mph for 50+ miles on one charge. You can still ride in all the bike lanes or go off road or anywhere a bike is allowed but do it much faster and power hills much more easily than a typical bicycle. That's the point. You can't pick up your motorcycle and carry it inside with you.
"high end ebike for $1500 or less if you do your research. That is to say 30+mph for 50+ miles on one charge......power hills much more easily "
Please say where to buy the best kit. i weight 220lbs and also want 12magnet pedal assist. Where to begin and what to research. Please help. thanks
rad power bikes
John LeGresley Funny you mention the KLR, my buddy just bought a brand new 2016 KLR 650 march 2018. Zero miles getting the old stock out the door price of $5900.00Canadian- Delivered to his house!! Why would anyone drop over 5 grand for an electric bicycle?? Hmmmm new motorcycle or be ebike. Same $$$ no contest.....
Your comment is a little old but thought I'd drop a line. Yea, battery prices are one variable but that still doesn't justify the 10 to 15k prices I"ve seen on some e-bikes. Those prices are just stupid.
Generally speaking, the high prices on e-bikes are caused by what I call 'greedy group think' and niche market margin chasing in a hugely fragmented jungle.
Now, I'm a free market capitalist so that is not all bad but it does get annoying after awhile, especially now that market has had some time to mature. I also find it annoying that so many e-bike shops won't work on e-bikes that aren't bought at their store.
My advice to people who read this and something I've done.. is do your homework and build something yourself. You would be surprised what you can do with off the shelf parts and a not very expensive bike from Walmart. Or, buy an e-bike within your budge, enjoy it for awhile and upgrade it later.
Maybe after the market matures awhile longer, things will get more realistic for the volume demographic.
This convinced me to buy a 150cc Yamaha Scooter, cheaper and better than an E bike for commuting. I just ride my normal Cannondale for exercise.
How long are the manufacturers going to be In business? What if I need new parts five years from now.
my first digital watch cost me £59 back in the day, now same watch £5.00 so my advice ,buy cheep till you find if you will use it enough to justify a more expensive one
That's exactly the point. I like how you phrased it, "buy cheap or inexpensive until you decide if you will use it enough".
We’ve had our Raleigh Motus for over 2 years, using daily, carrying the dog, shopping and me too. Quality works better, costs less to maintain, and lasts 👍
No offense but I'm fairly confident that no one - whether it is Raleigh or anyone else - gives a crap about me once I shell out my money for their product whether it is $1000 or $6999 especially a year later. At that point - their ONLY concern is HOW can they get MORE money out of me. And I am CERTAIN that any company will FIRST AND FOREMOST do EVERYTHING in their power to AVOID Responsibility in the case that THEIR PRODUCT causes any kind of damage or injury. This guy is a true SALESMAN.
you say that but large name brands value their name and branding. Raleigh has a brand to protect. Thats the point in brands that cost more. Warranties have a value. Having said all that I am not in a position to spend this kind of money.
very true, warranties AND reliable servicing. ross, when you ARE "in a position" of course your purchase will be the very best YOU can afford.
CanesFan65: Wow. You are the reason for all that you have mentioned. Nothing is your fault, lawsuits await and a warranty is just something to complain about. Please don't buy anything new again, you will be unhappy.
G Henrickson apparently you are offended. When people spend their hard earned money on a product - they expect to get a quality product - period. I've never spent my hard earned money hoping to get less than that. I hope you are not running a business because if you are you need a refresher course. Let me remind you - The Customer is NEVER WRONG!
Saying something like "The customer is NEVER WRONG!" Is a great way to run your business into the ground. It's important to take customers input seriously, help them with problems they have, and make it the best experience for them possible. But there are many times when the customer is wrong, and you have to politely tell them to go fuck themselves and you don't want their business. The company I worked for lost thousands because of my boss giving into customer bullshit, when we should have just stopped doing business with them.
they charge more cause they can. early adopters are getting reamed. for god sakes a motorcycle is LITERALLY a 100,000 times more complicated to manufacture. ebikes are NOT a 100% new product it's a bicycle with a motor I seriously doubt they had to do much R&D and new "engineering"
You're not up-to-date. The "Early Adopter" time is long gone. Some weeks ago I asked the guy from the bicycle store about the percentage of e-bikes he sells (compared to conventional bikes) and he said 50%. When I ride around on my e-bike, I see a rate of about 60%-80% e-bikes here in Munich. And hardly any of them is of the cheap variety. Almost all of them are pricy mid-motor models. It's mainstream for some time already.
Other than about the battery, he didn't really explain anything. That was a useless interview.
Yes but when an e bike costs as much or really close to a Harley Davidson...then they NEED to explain themselves. Why would I pay $8,000 for something I can inly get 25 -120mi before I have to charge for 3-6 hours. When I could spend 5.00 and ride a REAL motorcylce for 150mi at 65 -80mph. Where is the incentive?? Doesn't make sense!!
there is no way in hell you're going to tell me that a electric bike is in the same category as a brand new motorcycle. A motorcycle has intricate and advanced technology and an electric bike is very basic but it cost the same?
you can tell me about quality all you want till your blue in the face, its a God damn rip-off
There are less expensive ebikes and I agree that motorcycles tend to be more complex and heavy. Perhaps it's an economies of scale thing for now? They charge more because fewer are being sold and because the market is supporting it for now. I'm sure we'll see prices drop ongoing
Has nothing to do with scale - world-wide, scale is already there to make the product cheaper. What I suspect will happen is that the motorcycle industry will evolve toward electric, and once they start competing with ebikes, it'll be all over for the ebike industry's price manipulating strategy. Right now the motorcycle industry has voluntarily agreed to stay away, and they just sell electric motors to the ebike manufacturers, because the US market is just not tempting enough yet. Why do you think that that awesome Yahama ebike is not available in the US - the ebike industry is keeping them out? 5 years from now, when the US market is really ripe, you'll be able to buy a ebike like that from your Yahama dealer at a sensible price.
Jonathon Simon the problem right now is simply that the batteries in these bikes are too expensive, partially because of current tech and partially because of supply and demand. These bikes generally use the same battery cells that they use in laptops which are still pretty pricy for the higher end, reliable name brands.
DaveKillebrew
The batteries cost at most $500, much less if you have a 36 volt 250 watt euro legal system. I agree it doesn't make sense that a motorcycle is cheaper, but motorcycles are made from steel frames and expensive bikes are aluminum. I think that is one of the issues. Much more exotic type materials to keep the weight down. Motorcycles don't worry about weight. Also Yamaha makes millions of motorcycles, and high end bikes are made by the thousands.
Ebike pricing is comparable to regular pedal bikes. You aren't paying much more. It blows me away that diy builders spend thousands on expensive motors and batteries and put their gear on a big box bike they bought for a hundred dollars.
You can say that but the 1500 dollar bikes use the same batteries as the 5 thousand dollar ones...kind of kills your argument when the 1500 dollar bike is using the best batteries (Panasonic etc)
As the tech gets more advanced the cost goes down, these dealers are all trying to convince you otherwise. I remember paying 9k for a PC and 1200 for a DVD player, but now I can get those things for a tenth of the cost! I've built 3 ebikes so far and they rival the performance and build of any dealer bike and cost waaaaaaaay less. Now I'm on to building a e-motorcycle conversion that will cost waaaaaaaay less then your best ebikes.
The prices are coming down... you can get some Bosch powered ebikes this year for under $3k and about a year and a half ago it was $4k
For $4k you can get a Sur-ron with 200mm suspension travel, 1900wh battery, 6000w motor... From what I read it's reliable too. And it's beautiful. It's not exactly a bicycle, but you can get the idea how overpriced are these Bosch ebikes. It basically shares the same "hi-tech", but with 4 times better battery, better suspension, better engine, BETTER PRICE.
Actually the problem is not with the ebikes, the problem is with all bicycle parts manufactures. Fox, shimano, sram, suntour, etc - they charge ridiculous money for what you get. Is not the fault in the bike manufactures They literally build the frame, and buy everything else from third party companies to mount on the bike.
Easy for you to say.Your the one with deep pockets.Get a real job.Not a pansy job reviewing bikes.@@ElectricBikeReview
is this dude a politician, there was Zero explanation here of cost
My favorite part was the high five... bit delayed, but he came through eventually :D
I was thinking the same. There was so much missing why some bikes are cheap and some not.
Yeah the parts about custom frame construction, battery construction, components, warranties, had nothing to do with price 🙈
@@TheDogsSide Custom frame construction has everything to do with price. Also battery construction has everything to do with price. Just because you use good cells doesn't mean the pack is put together in a quality way or that it has a quality controller. Also components will add to the price if they are top of the line. It will cost more for premium components than it will middle of the road and low end components.
duwaine Blake This is an old message but I thought I would give a differnt view. He gave quite a few reasons. You probably just didn't agree with them. He mentioned;
1. Ethics. Bikes made in china as an example exploit Chinese workers. It's a step above slavery for most of the chinese people. They also have forced labor camps in China.
*I'm not saying if it's wrong just that he did mention ethics as an issue
2. Reliability - Parts are cheaper, don't last as long, made with inferior materials. More expensive bikes will use better parts that will last longer.
3. Customer Service - replacement parts might not be available for cheaper bikes, and some of these cheaper bike companies might not be here tomorrow.
Some bike shops might not be willing to work on the cheaper bikes.
4. Safety - this one kind of overlaps with reliability. Cheap parts are more likely to break. If your frame or the fork breaks while riding that could be bad for safety.
You do pay a premium for peace of mind.
These were the main things he talked about. To me I see it like buying a car. There are cars that are cheaper and cars that are more expensive. The Yugo as an example was a dirt cheap car in the 1980's, however it's gone down in history as one of the worst cars ever made. Over the years I have seen many classic old cars on the roads like model T's, but I have not seen a running yugo since the 1980's. On the other side you have cars like the Tesla that are very expensive for the most part, but have lots of benefits, and are quite luxurious.
Why anyone would be suprised that some e bikes are expensive and some are cheap is really confusing to me, as virtually everything we buy have expensive version and cheap versions. Computers, houses, clothing, food, cat litter, entertainment, almost everything. Another excellent example would be sunglasses.
There is the old saying that you get what you pay for. Obviously that's not always true, there are exceptions, but it's probably true more often then not.
I'm about to get a rad power bike, as it's about the best that I can afford, though I do agree that spending over $5000. seems a bit obscene, but if you can afford it and want it, then why not?
Also keep in mind that if no one purchased these expensive bikes they wouldn't sell them. Higher prices are generally dictated by demand.
So I bought a Surly Pugsly frameset(700$) building wheelset with Roloff hub studded tires & Magura Mr5e brakes (3000$) +miscellaneous components all top of the line ( hub has lifetime warranty) most expensive vehicle I’ve ever owned but I built it - I trust every little part/ system on it In February I’ll buy/install a Luna bbshd with a 52 v 12ah battery pack x2( Fully potted/waterproof with genuine Panasonic cells) and fit a gates belt drive 3000$ Super spendy but I will never give the government or oil corporations a dime AND most of the bike was manufactured in USA(ie supporting American small businesses & manufacturing
I live on a small island in S E Alaska with only 12-15 miles of paved road ( but hundreds of miles of logging roads ) i can do my shopping/laundry etc and hunt/ fish on most trails and the bike fits in a small skiff so I can go to other islands/ towns
Oh yea and I have epilepsy &MS ( I will never be able to get a driving license again but don’t worry,if I have a seizure while riding I will only hurt myself) there is very little public transportation here and nobody is offering a ride and as I have no sensation in my left leg/arm I can’t walk far
When my body started betraying me I just wanted to curl up and die-I rarely left the house- everything I loved to do ( hiking hunting climbing kayaking) was too hard and hurt. I almost gave up, I mean why bother- l don’t have kids or a wife - no more commercial fishing ( my job)
Then a friend lent me his bike to get home one day and I MADE IT HOME( 3.8 miles is way too far for me to walk)with out a ride or a cab EUREKA independence (not a burden so much for my friends/community). So I built my fat bike- it’s been a life saver
Now I can barely pedal so I’m getting a motor with a throttle- hopefully I’ll still be able to get out on it for another 5+ years
I do realize I’m a very niche market but my bike (Ebike soon) will hopefully keep me out of an ALF for another ?decade?
High quality Ebike super super expensive--getting some of my old life back- priceless
"Why are some electric bikes so expensive?!" , a hard hitting, in-depth inquiry by ElectricBikeReview.com. Who's kidding who here? It's a ten minute advertisement for Larry Pizzi's bikes. I don't know if he payed for the airtime, but there was no-one to put the other side of the question, namely Yes, electric bikes are too expensive.
Costumers don't care about spending "a bit more" for that extra security and reliability... but you're talking about the difference in a 1k and 8k electric bike! What large companies don't tell you is that you're spending an extra thousand at least for the brand logo and maybe a better paint job, not better quality equipment...
And that brand name also comes with reputation, also you can find a 2k ebike, from the big 3 or other manufacturers, you can even get a 1k ebike from decathlon, it's not like anything that isn't a no name brand is 8k
I live in the South of France and have just purchased my first electric bike a Kalkhoff Include evo i8 step through. I bought it from the UK because it was cheaper than buying in France and they are transporting it free. People say why such an expensive bike? Well I can afford the best so why not. People never look at a Ferrari or Porsche and say why such an expensive car. I'm a fit 75 but I don't want to dress in ridiculous lycra and wear funny shoes nor do I want to sit on a razor blade plus I don't like hills. So electric is the way to go.
BaronSilver Baron I’ve got one of these too. Great ebike.
the raleigh velo trail i had was utter crap, motor broke in 18 months, torque sensor replaced 3 times, power cable to motor replaced once, computer replaced once. I gave up and bought a decent mtb instead
I paid for my Stromer, what I could have paid for a 5 year old Hyundai. Excellent bike, but I knew I was getting robbed.
There are e-bikes, and e-bikes, but compared to regular bikes, electric bikes prices are justified...now, when compared to conventional motorcycles, they really leave something to be desired.
so for 4000 bucks you can get a sweet electric bike or you can buy two M16A2 with 300 rounds. Or you can buy a used car with AC, doors, locks, power steering, power brakes, radio, wind shield, wipers, motor, radiator and all the electrical work, exhaust system and functional electrical battery.... Hmmm seems right. T_T
Bikes come almost completely assembled. Handlebars turned sideways, saddle removed. Long pack has the front wheel installed, short pack has the front wheel packed beside the bike. Pedals are turned around to the inside or packed in a box. I never had to do major assembly. Touch up wheel truing, check brake and gear adjustment.
I bought the Lectric XP for less than $1k and it has been great.
Everyone is brainwashed people are selling bikes for 1500 to 2000 but only worth 500 it's insane.
Everything is marketed to a price point. Two identical bikes could be priced at $5000 or $3000.
I had a simular conversation at Canadian Tire the other day. There were two Rallies (ebikes) and CT wanted $2600 each. Thats a bit pricy considering the Ah of the batteries and the hub size and the fella next to me mentioned the he got a better deal on amazon for a better bike. His face was priceless when i asked him who services his chineese bike.
My ebike kit cost me $330. Hub motor, controller, 48V 12AH lipo battery...35 mph.
What about the bike?
Minus ZeRo Degrees where did you buy it for that price ?Chinese website? Did it include shipment ?
Hey, where did you get it from, and now that its been one year, how is it holding up?
This guys sounds like the owner of a typical car dealer.... look into my eyes.. its the experience your after, support after the sale.. who will be there to “help” you. Favorite... “important that all the cells are balanced”. Really? “If a cell has a problem... the pack cuts off to prevent a fire”. Good things he’s not a Tesla engineer...
I would imagine it’s a volume thing. The problem is the higher the price the less you sell.
From my experience, Raleigh Electric and the Accel group just is great with aftersale service. I had an experience where Larry came in and went out of his way to make sure that I'd be happy with my bike. Really happy I did not give in to cheap stuff. Now ridding the Redux Ie with the Brose motor and loving it.
Not to criticize but most bikes can handle a large fluctuation in weight. (at 8:00). A bike frame will not break if you weigh 150 or 300 pounds! Torque? I have stood up on the pedals and only managed to stretch the chain which can and will lead to sprocket wear. No frame damage and a easy cheap fix.
Hate to say it, but I bought a more expensive brand bike. And I happy I did. I looked at some bargain bikes. The breaks, motor, drive train and frame were just not as well built as the more expensive bikes. No regrets.
Can I ask what brand you bought?
Specialized Turbo Como 4. I’m older and not likely to fix a bike myself. I needed something a local bike shop can work on. That limited brands. Then I wanted one that was as I described above plus comfortable. It’s a lot of fun. The company has been good. The first battery had a problem. When they sent the new one, it was higher powered than the one I was supposed to get. The LBS said they did that because of the inconvenience to me. Makes sense but I didn’t expect it.
Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.
Mark up is like 40% of its actual value, So who is ripping us off? The retailer or the manufacturer?
Both
i think the biggest reason people buy the cheap stuff it that for some of the basic prices of a quality and assembled ebike you can get a new traditional motorcycle. also it does not help that ebikes have limitations for weight. i know that may not seem like a big deal but for me i am 6'2" and 265lbs but i have a near normal fat percentage at 240lbs. i see the 240lb notation on ebikes and get turned off. i basically have to be in top shape in order to feel comfortable buying a ebike. i know that the weight is a suggestion but still $2k and up for a ebike... or about 2k for a new motorbike that i can go anywhere. i guess you can say that ebikes are still new to the overall market so time is needed to adress those concerns.
I feel like the space is making progress, prices are coming down and you get a different experience from ebikes than with motorcycles... it's just different, perhaps more expensive, but different in good ways too :)
ElectricBikeReview.com progress is definitely happening and prices are falling. But these cheaper companies come about cause there definitely is a need for product in that price range that a random consumer feels like their money is not waisted on the purchase.
Until it breaks and they cant get in contact with the chinese company and noone else can fix it. Then its not cheap
Eeeeh. I treat ebikes like PCs and laptops.
There is a dropping curve of value vs. price. High end luxury items give you less and less bang for your buck the more expensive they get. Somewhere in the middle price range works best for most people.
And when I say middle, I don't mean car or motorcycle prices, lol.
Some treat eBikes with the rationality a luxury car dealer would, to try to sell people on it.
Batteries are improving so dramatically though, that investing in a quality 10yr life expectancy ebike makes about as much sense as a 10yr laptop.
Also never underestimate the diy community!
This video reminds me of two guys talking over a cup of coffee and telling me absolutely nothing...
Truth be told its hard to pay for a bike that cost the same as a car. Their are motorcycles even electric motorcycle ie zero that are competitively priced with these bikes. I think this will be the biggest hinder that keeps the e bike from really taking off.
One thing that wasn't mentioned in the review, when parts like the mid drive motor is manufactured in limited quantities, the cost of each motor goes way up, but if you can manufacture motors in large quntities the cost goes way down. Such is the case with the rear drive motors. The industry is changing, fat tire bikes with rear drive motors and large batteries, are becoming a useful commodity, which can be used for more than a joy ride once or twice a week, it's becoming a mode of transportation.
Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah.
Stop ripping off people.
Lol 😆
The real answer is electric bikes are in the "Growth" stage of the product life cycle where companies reap the most profit per item sold. This happens in every industry on the planet. The prices will decrease over time as the masses adapt to the electric bike. Companies recognize where they are in the cycle and are taking advantage of it. I will say that spending less than $1K on a bike is foolish.
Well said, there are different phases and with lower volume and an unproven market right now the margins are higher... but more competitors are entering and prices are falling :)
I dont buy this explanation for high prices for several reasons. 1) Electric bike are in a growth stage in the US; in Asia they are already mass produced, so economies of scale are already there. 2) The tech on electric bikes is really pretty low tech. Its not like an iphone7 circuitboard - its all off the shelf (mass produced motors, controllers, and batteries), and the frame and components are nothing new. The whole bike industry is a rip-off, not just electric bikes. The Industry players squelch competition by preventing their dealers (and the dealers actually drive this) from pricing competitively. If a dealer would discount a bike lower than allowed by the manufacturer, then they are subject to loosing their contract with that manufacturer. Even selling outside the dealers region (i.e. on the Internet) is restricted-I'm not sure if this is still the case, but probably so (as I am looking right now at a Performance Bicycle catalog which contains none of the major brands). This Industry is not a free-market so greed will prevail.
I do agree with your 2nd statement that spending less that $1000 would be foolish, unless you are a DIY. Even then, just getting a decent from/components just to start with will get you close to that.
I was talking about 'growth stage' as a coined marketing stage, not as a product development stage. Either way , we agree at the end of the day but for different reasons. Cheers.
completely true. Pedego, for example forbids it's dealers from offering ANY form of discount or sale promotions. corporate uses the tired excuse that it "cheapens" the brand. selfish marketing B.S., yet, it effectively keeps prices artificially high. (not a competitor, I own one.) THATS what I mean about purchasing what YOU want/need. (health wise as well).
JBlackBeard29
1:55
"I'll be clear - paradigms are changing"
Clear huh??
Fast forward to today 2020, and ebikes still outrageous expensive for a quality one...🤔
Compared to what I'm saving on gas, I'm pretty happy with the price, and the newer mid motors are so reliable , they go on forever even if used on turbo mostly
To sum it up, you're paying for the novelty as with any 'new technology'.
The only thing I can think of really is a probably a better battery management system and support and warranty should anything go wrong with the ebike within the coverage period.
Exactly
I have a Gazelle NL. I live a hilly area, and use it as a vehicle. Price is less than a cheap used car. It was manufactured in a country where workers are paid and treated fairly. Very happy with my choice.
EBR,i was referring to BME bikes(northridge CA) not BMS, i wasent bashing there bikes, they have great ebikes, but i got a couple of the bad apple ebikes from them, tim was very helpful in trying to solve my problems with the bikes on the phone, im just saying that bying any ebike online is tricky because you cant get the support that you may need if something go wrong and u have to ship a ebike with batteries from NY to CALF...cory and sams online info helped a great deal with many ebike problems i have..
Yeah, I knew you were talking about BME, perhaps I just mistyped? Thanks for the clarification Willie! and your fair response :)
Hey I like your reviews man. Find em really helpful. Don't listen to the haters. Hey I'm a cheap bastard, but you can't compare a Kia to a BMW or Merc. Want cheap buy your ebike on alibaba, want quality buy from a traditional supplier. Don't hate on someone who's just trying to inform.
To me it seems a mixture of status symbol coupled with quality. My $600. e-bike has a generic battery that is not well integrated into the frame, the cables are on the outside of the frame and it has cable disk brakes as opposed to the better hydraulic type. It has a 250 watt hub motor and a 36 amp battery. No bells or whistles, only a horn. I love to watch the EBR reviews on the top end bikes as they are a work of art and I learn a lot about systems and engineering along with quality. I bought my bike for fun and I get fun. I am not disappointed at all. It does boil down to what we can afford and what we want. I am glad that we have fords and chevys along with BMWs and Caddies. To me the ebike market is like the car market before it became the big3, we had Studebakers, Hudsons, Packards to just name a few and the variety made life better.
When I bought a old motorcycle I saved so much money learning mechanics that I can do all repairs on a motorcycle myself. If I bought a new fancy bike then I would be a dumb consumer.
I live in a small town that's very involved with rich people loving bikes and none of the bike shops are ripping people off like this video and we're probably one of the top 10 places of mountain biking.
I feel like the fire comment was a threat at 04:30 lol.
Just a way to say let me rip you off. Lol. Every bike has Wes and tear and eventually you'll upgrade what's most needed on a bike with a kit. I'd rather build my own for 2k to 2500 and get better quality, speed and a bigger battery. 7k or more for a bike is ridiculously over priced. Everything he talked about was just a bullshit script to sell a product. Great video discussing why not to waste money 👍
Buying local at a bike dealership means you pay for overhead! 60-300hour!
If you buy cheep be ware!
Frames, sprockets, batteries and controls!
Research!
You may be buying just junk!
Read forums but watch out here too!
Research research and research!
I’m in the market for a good ebike! Been looking for 6 months! Still researching!
One of the biggest reason why good ebikes and good ebike kits are so expensive, is the battery. I recently installed a electric assist system on my bike from EBikekits.com. Its a very good kit with very good customer service, but the battery, 48 volts at 10 amps, actually cost more then the kit itself, i.e. 20 inch front wheel with Direct drive motor, controller, LCD monitor, E assist controller, two different types of throttles, and good brake levers with the power interrupt thing on them. So I got a lot in the kit, but the battery still cost more, oh, its a LithIon battery. And I have found with all the gadgets that use LithIon batterys, that the battery is often increases the cost of the item by 40 too 50%. So yes a good battery will cost you a lot for a Ebike.
The problem is with people who cant afford the price tag not that the bike is a rip off.Some people are just cheap and complain about non issue topics.I for one would say that a Ferrari is a rip off but it NOT one because the desire is still there to own one.So when a person says the price is the issue that's when you know they are just poor or to cheap to commit to owning the product.
I try to be compassionate and understanding but your point is an excellent one. A product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. I love that there are options but am not going to call a cheaper, lower quality or less visually appealing ebike junk just like I'm not going to call a $10k special edition ebike a ripoff. They just exist, and we're lucky that companies are trying new things :)
I totally agree with you and I'm glad there are loads of options for everyone and what their price point can afford.I would never call any bike junk if they are happy with it then that's great.Me,myself and I would personally never buy a cheaper bike only because I can afford what I like and what I like isn't cheap.Now with that said I live a normal life I'm not by no means rich but I save for what I like/want.The next bike on my list to own is a specialized levo which will happen by summer time.
The Levo is a blast ;)
I'm in the process of building one myself. Rear wheel drive 1500 watt motor kit, 52 volt 20 amp hr. battery on my mountain bike. If the frame wares out I can buy a new one at Walmart for 150.00 and switch the hardware over.
If china has a really big market for e bikes, i expect them to have quite an experience. That transfers to almost all products: If a country is known to have good beer, because they have a brewery every 5km, you know they compete and you know they got a certain level.
So the whole argument about safety and reliablity is just bullshit, sorry to say that. Ive seen malfunctioning Bosch bikes and asian e bikes that behaved weirdly. they both were covered by warranty. For Bosch its about reputation, so the try to satisfy so quickly. to any store or seller on amazon its about the product reviews, a 1* review is the worst thing ever. What was the difference? 3000 dollhairs. Sure, the components of a 600$ bike are lower quality than the components of a 3000-4000$ bike. Sure you need to adjust it yourself. But getting 4-5 e bikes for the price of one is really a big gap to justify.
The Lithium battery market in asia is also really big. The big companies produce in the same factories as the noname brands. this kind of battery is not brandnew, we had a couple of years and it is quite well understood. Talking about Samsung, pardon me, is that a cheap or insecure phone company in your opinion? I bet you and this other guy had one at one point in their life. what a double standard.
The kit argument is mostly invalid as well. 20 pounds of components make a frame unreliable? So if I (80kg) a small kid (50kg) and a really big guy (like 150kg) buy the same bike the fat guy is going to brake the frame? lol. (concerning torque: yes, this is right. a FWD kit would put a different time of stress on a bike. but a RWD kit? maybe your chain will fail if you oversize your motor and flor it, but its the same when you would put in a high gear and pedal like a berzerk everyday with that gear. )
If china is a big producer of e bikes, a big seller, and has a big local market on them i need to ask this question: How can you justify a difference of factor 5 between a cheap bike and a high end one? Yes the high end one will last longer probably. The components will feel and look better. But by my countries laws, the both deliver the same kind of power to support your drive. It's like comparing a 10 000 dollar car to a 50 000 car that has almost NO extras. I know developement costs but to the consumer this is a big gap. I wouldnt mind of the bike would cost twice as much for being prestige with good components, but 4-5 times the costs? no thanks. If my china battery brakes down some day (it has no signs of failure so far) it would set me back 150-200$. A Bosch battery itself will cost as much as my whole bike.
I think that guy sold my neighbor a used car.
Laughing so hard. He proves there as 100% no reason to pay 3k to 8K. People really need to shop and learn, watch videos, and reviews. I have 3 e-bikes under $2000 each that are fantastic and zero issues for a year now. My wife and I ride almost daily, Samsung 48V battery has been charged every night and works perfect. We have radrover and radmini and I would put them up to any other bike. I also have a Luna 1000W bafang mid I put on my TREK mountain bike with 52V battery for $1400 and it will climb anything and go faster than I need to go.
I am less than $1000 all in on my Sondors thin with extras!i've had it a year and it's been flawless go anywhere I want charge and recharge! If something goes wrong with it I'll Mod it.... I like the company so much I just ordered the new Sondors fold X!!
don't kid yourself you can have trouble with these high-end bikes too!!
"Why Are Some Electric Bikes So Expensive?"
because NAME BRAND
AND they come with all the other stuff you would buy for a pedal luck.
Don't know about you but I'd rather buy from a reputable name brand than a no name manufacturer when it comes to bikes
A lot of these bikes are more expensive than quality motorcycles and scooters that have much more engineering and far more materials and parts. Right now these bike companies need to sell these 5-7k bike for 1.5-2k. Their price points are far off. Hopefully companies like radbike can drive these prices down. I have heard very few complaints about radbikes that sell at much more reasonable prices. It's going to be years before we see quality bikes for a reasonable price from the big manufacturers .
You are charging 3times what I pay for rent your asking for 1% of my yearly income I'm on ssi an ebiks would be ideal for transport for me and other veterans with limited income.
The price of an ebike is 1% of your yearly income? Are you serious? You are rich, sir.
If you aren't adept at bicycle mechanics, it is in your best interest to support local bike shops with your purchase as well as your service dollars. The majors won't build these if we race to the bottom with cheap internet kickstarts, and the benefits of a well built factory design are apparent if you take the time to look carefully. I built my own ebike several years ago because it was good performance for money, but for the same money today, I could buy a slightly less powerful factory bike, out the door, and the motor wouldn't need constant work, like my Bafang motor has. If folks aren't familiar with how expensive bicycles have gotten in general, it's easy for them to assume factory ebikes are a ripoff. Again, get informed about bikes and you realize that if these are used for commuting they are reasonably priced.
The answer is R&D and production. A lot of money goes into developing the technology (most of which is still relatively new) and until ebikes really take off and create a competitive market whereby component and production costs are reduced, many ebikes will remain expensive. In another 5 years I would expect costs to reduce significantly, but you will still see high-end handmade (R&M) ebikes, and lower priced decent ones as well (Raleigh). Personally, I am more likely to spend $5k on an ebike than $1k on a standard bike. Essentially they do the same thing, but I would use an ebike almost everyday as a proper car/public transport alternative, compared to a standard bike which I would only use occasionally for a leisurely weekend ride. As long as the quality and serviceability is there, and I enjoyed and got proper use out of it, the cost is secondary. But there are cheaper options and it is a very personal choice. If it's too expensive, buy a kit and adapt a standard bike.
pupose built ebikes are useless, too fancy for nothing. but an 8fun motor, mine has served me for 3 years now
The problem I have is the style for $800 to $2,000 ebikes is very similar to each other. A step through for my wife can cost $899 or $3,900. The fat tire bike I want is $2,399 because I don’t want spokes. So the issue I have seen is there are very limited choices her in California for “made in the U.S.A.” after going to 11 bike and ebike stores-the bikes have about 5 different styles and just have slightly different battery, hub, frame design, and either low or high quality derailers, brakes, tires and handlebars. Very frustrating. Too many choices but not what I want.
What a non answer. These bikes are still a rip off. This guy's non answer only validates that.
Agreed. The "value" argument is the usual bullshit sellers use when they know
they´re selling some ridiculously expensive shit, and have no other
arguments. I do have the money to buy an e-bike and then some, but I
totally understand people who scream in pain when they look at these
prices.
According to my own estimations, you usually need to spend for an e-bike
around 4-5 times the amount of money you would spend for a regularbike,
with almost identical components. That´s ridiculous
for the overwhelming majority of the population, for obvious reasons.
Heck, the other day I stumbled upon a VW dealer where they were selling a
used CAR in mint condition, 2yr guarantee, for LESS money than some of
the bikes featured on this channel. Should we use the "value" argument
then? Should we use it with a state-of-the-art 5.000$ Iphone?
Nah, these are just ridiculously expensive products for those of us who
have the money AND are stupid enough to pay it, that´s about it.
(Sorry, Court... ;)
I don't need an apology, I don't sell ebikes, my goal is to review a whole bunch and help people find the right one for their lifestyle/budget or decide it's not right :)
I don't think your viewers including myself are asking for your apology but I hope you at least understand the criticism. You asked a very good question and I was hoping for an actual answer but Larry's answer to your good question was that they provide expertise and after purchase service that justifies the high price and then giving a patronizing false answer about battery cells, etc. Most ebikes are built in China with Chinese components. We all know that. We all know the importance with batteries and battery management systems, etc. What I was hoping to hear was some sort of insight into recognizing true value of the ebikes on market so that consumers are able to recognize when they are getting ripped off and when a bike is a good deal, etc. Instead Larry just gave a patronizing, entirely off-putting, sales pitch about why high price for ebikes is good. Waste of your viewers' time.
Something perfectly obvious, Court. In the very same way I was expecting to be obvious with my ";)" that I was neither offering you "an apology", nor thinking that you "need" one...
";)" again...
I have two. the specialized turbo levo and the turbo x. I also have a full carbon giant carbon force MTB which cost more and I have to tell you. I haven't touched my giant since I bought the levo MTB. the only difference is I can travel further deeper into steep terrain that I couldn't before. I still get the same workout if not more. it's more fun it's just amazing these bikes. I haven't tried many others and the ones i have don't compare. these two kick ass. anyone who says otherwise just hasn't ridden one. Specialized service is horrid but that's doesn't keep me from these bikes. I look to the day a better company can do it better. I truly can't say enough. I don't use my turbo x much since buying the turbo levo MTB but find it very hard to part with.
i bought the ancheer AM004142 250w e bike a year ago took only 1 week to arrive from swordyall in cina for for 770 gbp great value still works every day for work great bike for first timer
The main problem to me with “expensive” ebikes is the they are bikes. They are likely to be used a lot when they are new and novel and then set aside for months or years before they get drafted out again. On a regular bike, no worries. The eBike though is gonna be a brick. A 3,4 or 5 thousand dollar brick.
I am waiting for my ebike, right now. I went with a Himiway. I had heard nothing but positive things about it. The reviews, are great and I am looking into bike paths to ride. I am very excited about getting my bike.
There's one question that I just thought about, "does expensive equal better?" I have heard stories from other ebike owners that have had nothing but negative comments about their bikes. So, does expensive equal quality?
Considering that I've never spent more than $150 on a new non-powered bike, even the $800 Sondors is expensive to me. I just don't ride enough to justify the cost. However, to be fair, typical high quality non-powered bikes easily cost over $3000. Just go to your local bike shop and you'll see. And you can easily find a $10,000 Non-powered bike. Point is, if you compare with a high quality non-powered bike, the ebike prices seem a lot more reasonable. Some of you use motorcycles as a comparison - instead of picking the low end used motorcycle as an example, why don't you use a new top of the line $30,000 Harley davidson as an example. There's always going to be a market for the low end and the high end and both ends are justifiable.
A decent DIY bike can also get very expensive, but at least you can fix it yourself if a controller goes out or BMS blows. As long as there is service available to repair an ebike, I wouldn't mind spending on a decent bike. Most my my LBS stopped selling or servicing ebikes due to customer returning the bikes due to faulty BMS.
Important to remember that not everyone *can* afford a 6000 dollar ebike over a 1500 dollar one.
Radpower isn't the *best* company, but they make decent bikes that basically everyone can afford.
The thing I think I like the least about the ebike industry is the push for people to buy 8-10k dollar euro bikes or else their bike might explode or collapse.
Well you get what you pay for and every person has his own budget high or low it’s not a shame just try to choose the best for your money
Gotta say both my Sondors fat bike and thin bike are the charm. $800 each. They are custom engineered as e-bikes, delivered within 2 weeks of my order, and I enjoyed the assembly and adjustment but this may not be for everyone. Importantly I saved literally thousands versus showroom e-bikes.
Nice! Glad you're having a good time with it. The Sondors did a great job keeping prices low and delivering on their promises (mostly). Some of the crowd-funder folks reported having to wait longer and getting different colors than they wanted but I thought the bike worked out pretty well overall :)
Your show is great. You should consider doing a show about what goes into owning a evoke store from location capital outlay marketing employees etc. The second show should highlight ways to finance your bike what are the best companies in the space the good and the bad.
I think some people are missing the point of value versus cost. Frankly having owned a " first generation " electric bike at £1700.00 I would probably never go back to another one as I was going to have to pay £600.00 to replace a battery. There are bike conversions out there for as little as £200.00 maybe even less. I could get an old bike for £20.00 and convert it. If idiots want to spend thousands then carry on.
Hey, I love my Raleigh Detour IE. Never thought about it burning down my house. But if it does, Mr. Pizzi, I'll call you up.
The stealth bomber B-52 E-Bike has a top speed of 50 miles an hour and cost $10,000, I could go out right now and get my motorcycle license and a motorcycle for a lot less.
Some very good points. Thanks for this.