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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- Learn all about the differences between hub drive and mid drive ebikes.
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Thank you for all of your comments! We have answered a lot of your questions here: th-cam.com/video/oQOrmyxFP0c/w-d-xo.html
Not only is this the best video I've seen explaining mid- vs hub-drive motors, its one of the best explanation videos period. No BS, no lengthy intro, no time spent convincing you why you want to know this. Content creators could learn a lot about effective presentations by studying your approach. Well done!
Not only is this the best video I've seeing explaining the topic...its the only one and I don't feel any need to watch another one. I'll be watching videos on which mid drive bike I should get.
Ok maybe it’s a good video. But this are professionally manufactured e-bikes, and not DIY kits. Where does this compare to a DIY kit. It didn’t explain any of that.
@@Seaby41 bafang is what you need to research
@@geegee8625 hmm. You may just be right... Thanks
@@Seaby41 if you read the reviews from buyers on amazon its very very positive,
Ive had mine for 13 months and its pure magic and so much cheaper then buying a ready made E bike and so much better
I came here for the eBike info, I stayed for the Honda Civic Type R commercial 😂 Seriously though, this is a great video. Thank you for all of the time and effort spent making this.
This is the most complete, intelligent and unbiased explanation of the two drive methods I have found on the net. Excellent presentation!
perfect
this is hot trash
Also wrong. Can't compare electric motors with internal combustion motors as the torque is different and 'rev' range different. And it's a bike anyway. Who needs to go at 80kmh on a bike? Hardly unbiased.
Is it tho? He was on pedal assist 5 the whole time
@@davidclarke7367 you obviously missed the point by over thinking the loose analogy.
I went with the mid drive partly due to this extremely well made and informative video. Couldnt be happier with my purchase, its exactly what I wanted. I just basically wanted a bicycle that gave me some help as I am older now and this is exactly what a mid-drive does. Feels like riding a normal bike to a huge degree only you feel like you have Bionic legs! Very smooth transfer of power. 25Ah battery and around 120km as you are pedaling all the time. My bike does have a throttle that you can use once you get to 6kmh, but I never use it, I have so much fun pedaling like I did when I was young.
Thank you! I am a very experienced bicyclist and motorcyclist out looking for my first ebike. I have heard of both types of drives but the other TH-camrs do too much talking and not enough showing. Now I get it! Thank you as I now know I will be shopping for mid-drive only!
You explained the differences between Hub and Mid Drive bikes perfectly! I got a Mid Drive ebike and I love it! SWFL Golf Carts has some incredible pieces with a great staff!
This is the best video I’ve seen that compares and explains different riding experiences between mid and hub motors. Thank you.
Thank you. I've been reading different reviews and watching different videos on e bikes and this is by far the best overview I've found of the differences between a hub and mid drive.
Spot on, I have six ebikes both mid drive & hub motors. Been riding ebikes since 2010 & love them, they're all awesome!
loved the unbiased approach and straight forward info. I'm a "casual" bike rider looking to make the right choice on a big spend, so this video really helped. Thanks!
By far the best video explaining the differences between hub and mid drives. Thank you!
I love this video. I rewatch it every now and then simply because of how well this video was brought together
This was a nice overview of the two types of eBike motors. Thank you for sharing and for the explanation of the two under actual use.
That was a great explanation of the differences between Hub and Mid Drive bikes. I bought my wife a Hub Drive for commuting her 12 mile round trip to work. I think that was the best for her. I have preordered a Mid Drive for me because I’ve ridden motorcycles most of my life and I’m used to shifting for speed and for power. Great job on the video!
@@derekthompson2279 I understand your opinion. I too feel the same as you. I want the torque but my wife is not used to constant shifting as I am. The hub drive was right for her but not for me.
@phillip wareham mid drives are easy to break
@phillip wareham "some people" can be a fluke. Bike shops love mid drives because they're easy to damage if you're not extra careful, so they bring more repairs to them.
@phillip wareham Why did they pay £3500 for a Yamaha haibike?
I am at 1500 miles on my hub motor with no problem.Mid drives eat chains is why I did not get one because if you have any failure with a mid drive you are forced to walk it.With a hub drive you can at least get home if the chain breaks.I also put a front hub--so i have 2 motors and can climb a hill at 25 MPH simply using the front 1000 watt hub motor.Bike shifters are not nearly as strong as a motorcycles.I ride on trails deep into the woods and do not want a hike if a part fails and flat tires and chains breaking are 2 of the main ones--also just had my first flat and I simply turned the back hub motor off and was able to get home with the front and i did not have to walk--used fix a flat and it has been weeks and no issues.These motors make what a pro athlete can generate and it is very hard on the chain.
Thanks for this video, helped a lot.
I got into ebikes in October of 2022 with a hub drive cadence sensor bike. Worked great for six months, but then had some issues and horrible customer service so I abandoned that company in favour of another one. The new bike still has a hub motor, but torque sensor and my god I love it so much more.
Have yet to ride a mid drive motor yet, but this video helped a lot in understanding the differences.
Great editing, video quality, explanation, everything bro! Thank you for taking your time to make this video
I appreciate this video being concise and straight to the point. It’s clean, informative, and respectful of people’s time. Thank you!
Great video ... my wife and I are just now starting to look at folding 20" ebikes here in Italy and your explanation was really helpful in introducing us to the differences between the two drive types!
Thank you! That was the best review comparison I have seen. Well done!
Love this video, nothing but the facts and answering questions I didn't even know I should be asking.
Thanks for the comparison between electric hub and mid motors! 👏🏻
Agree that hub is better for starting out and cheaper. Shifting* (manual gears) on a hub does have an effect though ,I can see it on my readout as the watts drop. ( downhill in 4th, 7th gear pedaling 124 w @ 28mph - flat 3rd pedaling 7th gear 300-500w ) Hubs usually last longer and crank/mid motors are expensive to fix or replace. The Mid motor is exposed to hit anything if bottoms out. Yet changing rear tire on hub motor is a pain as wire goes into rear axle. Hubs are also better for snow and sand. My 750w 14v 15a [**] 5 speed motor 7 gears manual can hit 28mph max speed flat, 15 uphill, 37 downhill, so they are slower. I feel that Hub motor is a Truck and Mid is a car. You can't really haul wood or a rear cart on a Mid motor without wearing down rear sprockets . Snow is also a killer of Mid drives. Whereas you can pull wood in the snow with a hub drive. Mid drive is essential for power in traffic agree yet Hub gets me through the a.t.v. trails just fine , so trail riding and hunting are ideal for Hub. Just my 5cents✌ *added after -as shifting on electric Hub does Not but only on the motor when in 2-4 speed. they will torque to same speed , just watt difference.
Ride Safe ✌
[** ][They also sell a 1450w will go 35mph ]
Which dual suspension hub driven bike would you recommend for snow & steep hills ? :)
Thanks for the extra info buddy 👍
Alsi i would say tha mid drive is best for the steeper hills. Mid drive wears out chains and the whole drive train quicker.
You just confused me. i thought for hunting, going through muddy trails with some big inclines, with a lot of gear and the possibility of hauling out a deer carcass, the extra torque and and gear control of a mid would be better. Am I wrong?
@@ajillian1 A mid would have the power , if on a fat tire, yes. The mid drive on standard tires would just burn out or wheelie. Some mid drives have limited gears also, not to mention the derailleur getting sticks in it... I am also able to control the torque on my hub drive, and I have 7 manual gears with 5 motor speeds. So it crawls up atv trails and rocks no problem , just slowly. it depends on the motor - mine has 10-20-30-50--90% power to pedal ratio, or can just twist throttle and use 100% If I had the $ I would by a higher end mid drive though- Higher top speed , torque and the new belt driven ones are excellent.
@@TruthHrtz413 thx for replying, so it sounds like for hunting you’d recommend hub drive. Speed is no concern , just want torque for some inclines and some messy mud and loose dirt and snow while hauling some weight.
Thank you. First 40 secs is exactly what I needed.
Awesome video! I’m an older dude with tons of knee problems. So your video was super informative and helpful.
Quite a helpful video. My job necessitates that I move occasionally from one location to another throughout the country, and I'm not quite ready to invest into a car. I'd been looking into e-bikes as an alternative way of staying healthy and keeping commute costs down, and I think you've convinced me to go for a Hub-drive.
Glad to help!
Great video, and super sweet Type R! Regarding performance, I don't think mid-drives are superior in everyway unless you are comparing sub 750W motors. Mid-drive motors are limited by size whereas hub motors can easily be 4x larger, 4x more powerful. And with that kind of power at your disposal, you don't need to switch gears. I have a DIY e-bike with rear 1500W hub, and could tow my (2) kids up a 45 degree incline effortlessly. Loved the production of this video, very well done 😀
My Focus RS would destroy that type R in a race.
1000 watt hub motor can’t out climb or out perform a bosch CX motor with half that output. You have to throw so many watts at a hub drive to get it to climb better then a bosch motor.
@@bubbajones7486 So what?
This video was actually helpful. I rarely see this on TH-cam these days. Thank you!
Got two e-bikes and you Guys have taught me a lot. Great video!!!
I’ve only been looking into ebikes for a couple weeks, and I was still kinda confused about the differences between hub drive and mid drive motors…but not anymore.
Great video you two. That was clear and concise and I am no longer confused.
Glad to help ;)
@@Biktrix Now if you could just lend me about three thousand dollars plus tax, that would be great!🤣🤣
Seriously though, nice to see a Canadian ebike company. I always try and support my fellow Canadian businesses.
And it goes BOOM for the Hub Motors. I'm a casual user who just want to experience a little push from behind without completely changing the frame shape of my bike and adding an extra gearbox with possible plastic parts in it which would break sooner or later. Neither I want extra complexity regarding a gearbox etc. And I still need the feeling of moving a bike, not a motorcycle. Just for that I always will choose a hub motor. I really appreciate your unexcited comparison. All Thumbs up!!!
a mid-drive is actually more bicycle than a rear-hub
Please explain why you have to change the frame shape and how if you want a mid drive. I have a mid drive and never did that.
This video was definitely very helpful. I've been researching and researching online for an ebike that would suit me for a good price. It will probably be a while before I actually get one. But I know now what kind I'm looking for. That mid drive baby!
This is by far the best review of the two types of bikes.
Well, I guess I'll be the outlier here. Very experienced marathon cyclist who still does 8,000 km of riding per year, and I prefer a good hub drive for reasons of reliability and performance. Your test was a bit predictable though, pitting an aggressive rider using higher PAS levels on a mid-drive, against a more shy person intentionally choosing lower PAS levels. The results would have been different if I had been there (nudge, nudge) 😉😉. All in good fun though, and thanks for the video.
Would have been a more realistic comparison of the bikes' capabilities if the riders had been closer in approach and technique.
Hub drives just aren’t as efficient as a mid drive. Plus maintenance is worse on a hub drive, and most hub drives are not sealed.
@@xmateinchub drives are as basic as they come. They're just an electric motor with spokes on it. And they're allways sealed. Not sure where you got that from? Mid drive wears your cassette, chain and derailleur out too quickly. Plus if your chain snaps, you can still ride with a hub drive.
@@xmateincalso, hub are more efficient, especially direct drive ones. You lose efficiency through your drive line on a mid drive.
@@Billy-burner they’re not sealed. No bafang motor is sealed. I’ve seen plenty of them rust out. Mid drives can’t take advantage of your gears, so of course they’re not as efficient.
Thanks, drive train wear is of course much higher on mid drive, and you can break a chain, and a long walk home.
However, I carry a chain tool and quick link, and can fix a chain very rapidly, I can also change a rear puncture tube in about 2 -3 minutes, but hub drive is difficult, but you can buy special tubes that do not require wheel removal.
I own both, but where I live, a very hilly area, mid drive wins for me.
Put slime in the tubes and you rarely need to patch a puncture let alone changing the wheel.
Hi Guys, great review, just purchased a Hub drive NCM, fantastic, just getting out there riding & enjoying the hills :)
Great video! Glad I came across this before my purchase. Outstanding!👍🏾
Good job on the video, but I would like to add that regardless of which motor you have access to, they are both fun to ride. I own both a hub drive and a mid drive.
Couldn’t agree more ;)
Fantastic video! Thanks so much. Just got my wife a Maxfoot 1000W 20" FT folding bike and been looking for a folding ebike for me. I'm try to decide between the Mid-drive Rhino 1000W (by Accolmile) or Tesgo 1000W Rear Drive. Looks like from your video (at the beginning) you can use throttle assist to take time off from pedaling on Mid-Drive bikes? Other articles I've read I didn't think you could do that - is this correct? Also, what are your thoughts on the Tesgo or Accolmile folding bikes? Thanks again! Very much appreciated
Awesome production. The drone footage while mapping your root was outstanding. Great work. Well done.
This is a great video for understanding these two bikes. Thank you.😀
Excellent video, I’ve never seen anyone else talk about these two different options before, tks.
I have both. I've yet to use the mid drive as the installation I had it planned for didn't work out. (turns out the cassette on a trike sits in further than a regular bike, so the chain only lined up on gears 7 and 8. So it will eventually go on a regular ebike with a hub motor I have when the battery gives up the ghost and I can swap in from 36v to 48v. The latter I want to give more speed options as it is incredibly slow with the 350 Watt hub (almost 15 mph top speed and needs to be pedal assisted up hills). It needs to be competitive with traffic around town because we lack any real bike infrastructure. So that will allow me to use the gearing like my old gas bikes with jackshafts. The trike ended up with a 48v 1500 watt hub motor because I wanted power for hill climbing and hauling since it's kind of my pickup truck (heh, pickup trike). Plenty of power for what I need and frankly rarely goes top speed because it's scary as heck on the crappy roads here. I topped it out at 32 MPH at one point
A point that definitely shouldn't matter much, but did for me, is that a hub drive is extremely useful if you have a problem with your chain, drivetrain or shifter in an inconvenient place. I had a problem with my chain easily jumping out of alignment, and a hub motor with throttle saved my ass a few times. Of course this is a sign that the bike needs adjustment or fixing, so it shouldn't be a serious factor: fix your bike! But still, for those times I was glad I had the cheaper option.
I had a rear derailleur blow up 15 miles from home. My front hub motor and 20Ah/48v battery carried my fat ass all the way home, no peddling required.
I'm pretty sure that at some point in Kanuckistan that e-bikes either had to be, or some just were pedal assist.
There was no throttle.
The motor just provided a boost but once pedalling stopped the motor coasted.
@@kurtklingbeil6900 I'm pretty sure they have to have pedal assist (otherwise they must count as electric scooters), but they can also have a throttle. I don't know if a throttle was ever illegal.
GREAT video! I just bought a mid drive kit today, without properly understanding the difference between the two and I panicked that I'd made the wrong choice, but this video suggests I got the one that is better suited for me! I really appreciate the explanations and the demonstrations. I wish I could give this video 5 stars!
on the mid drive motor, are you able to use throttle only and not peddle when the bike is at cruising speed or do the peddles keep going?
@@jdub1139no, you don’t need to keep pedaling. You can coast with a mid-drive with or without power…
All reviews I've seen say mid-drives are superior to hub drives.
@@10tenman10 I am a mid drive fan but its only superior at same power or even at slightly lower power. but price wise hub is likely to out perform.
Fabulous video!!! I learned what I needed and nothing more.
Really well done. I'd love to see a video about the using each drive efficiently and which one is a more efficient use of similar sized batteries.
Solar race cars which need the highest efficiency use direct drive hub motors.
Here's a Deep Dive into Ebike Motor and System Efficiency: th-cam.com/video/dxJe_gygRGU/w-d-xo.html
On a hub drive, the gears have no effect on the motor, but they do have an effect on the rider who wants to be adding power via pedaling. That's useful, otherwise you'd see no derailleurs on hub drive bikes. Since some of us want to get some exercise while riding, so your example of blasting along with no effort obscures that with either drivetrain you can dial back the pedal assist and pick your gearing so you get the resistance and cadence you want for exercise. And when you use less PAS, you'll improve your bike's range. A good mid drive bike will have a shift sensor to bypass motor power to make shifting smoother and not put undue stress on the the drivetrain, so shifting isn't much different between a hub motor bike and a mid drive. A hub motor doesn't make shifting easier unless you really just want to ride the thing as an electric motorcycle and avoid shifting altogether.
A hub drive can simulate riding on flat ground or down hill. In those conditions one gear for the human is more than enough.
I think ideally we would mechanically decouple the human from the drive wheel. The human should just pedal a generator and choose a load they prefer.
One more nuance here. Mid drive bikes can be either cadence sensing or torque sensing. Since torque sensing is more responsive to the pressure you put on the crank, it doesn't generally need a shift sensor to cut the power during shifting. You just ease up on the pedaling while shifting just like you would on a regular bike.
@@chuckcarlson7940 Hub drives can have any sensor that a mid-drive can have. All the options are possible for both. The only difference is whether you want the motor always pedaling through the chain or not.
I was thinking that myself. If you're pedaling on either system, you would need to change speeds about the same on either to match the cadence to the ground speed.
@@chuckcarlson7940 Excellent point.
This is the best review I’ve seen on e-bikes and I’m glad to see the difference between a mid drive and hub drive since I’m on the look for buying an e-bike !
The area where I live has a bunch of hills and this information got me on a better election.
Thank you fellows.
One thing they skipped over is the costs. A mid drive motor is putting its power on the gears and chain on top of the power you are putting in. So you can expect them to wear out way faster.
Second thing is: how much power do you REALLY need. Do you want to ride a bike and just get some help sometimes you can choose a weaker motor and a smaller battery which gives you a way lighter bike (sadly normally not a cheaper one). If you want the motor to do most of the work you need a stronger motor and bigger battery.
The bikes they are using are more or less e-motor bikes and not really anything that I would call a bike despite the cranks.
I've had both... and oddly, the single-speed hub-drive bike completely and utterly smoked my the multi-speed mid-drive bike. It might have just been a poor design as the mid-drive bike's gears... gears 1-4 were useless and I always started in 5th gear... and it topped out at 8th gear. I really like the single speed's ease of use as I don't have to think about changing gears anymore although granted, starting off from a dead stop takes a little more work. Sometimes I'll use the throttle to take off quicker but not very often.
Nice helpful video. Would appreciate a follow up video on the wear and tear of the 2 types in the long term.
good idea!
I have 600+ miles on my mid-drive. Never snapped a chain. I just got a new chain and cassette.
The bafang motors are quite robust.
The mid-drive you need to make sure you're in the right gear.
this is the perfect video explaining mid drive and hub drive!
With same power mid drive is superior in every way imo.
If it comes to price hub drive is likely to out perform mid drives.
Thank you for this excellent description and demonstration
Having had a 1000 watt BBSHD and now a 500 watt hub motor (both BAFANG) I would take the hub motor! I do the same speed with either (could go faster with the mid drive but don’t feel safe) …the hub motor uses less battery and doesn’t put any stress on the drivetrain. If you’re the type that wants high speed or off road/rough trails then you might want the extra power/torque. I’ll take the better and more efficient hub drive for my regular riding.
Such a fantastic video for all the reasons already expressed by others. Thanks for sharing it!
Excellent guide on what to expect and what not to. This will give me the information when I get my e-bike.
Thanks!
I'm new to ebikes and went with a hub drive setup as there are times I don't want to peddle at all. Can even get to my destination if the chain breaks. I use it for commuting to work and back home and find it to work fine for me. I've had many gear driven (analog bikes) throughout the years. My most recent one was a Specialized Enduro Pro 2004 model and I still have it but it's getting tired and worn out. I never intended on getting an ebike but my current situation means that the ebike is more efficient than using a car. If I actually used the max level PAS I could definitely make it to work faster than I ever made it in a vehicle. My Engwe EP-2 Pro has 5 PAS levels but I've changed it to 9 PAS levels. I typically run it at maximum PAS level 5 on the 9 level setting which is just a bit less power draw than level 3 with the standard 5 PAS level setting. Currently I don't have a need or desire for a mid drive but maybe one day that will change. All I am saying is a hub drive is more convenient than a mid drive in my current situation.
I like this Engwe EP-2 concept. It is almost perfect commuter in my opinion.
- compact
- e-powered (effortless)
- fat tire (all-road+comfort)
- foldable (wide transport modes range)
- front suspension (comfort)
- rack (can bear approx. 50L of stuff in the bags)
- mudguards, kickstand, light.
One thing that stops me from getting one is that its price is twice my current used touring with a 400w 14ah rear motor hub kit on it.
I ordered the Hub Duo 27.5 x 3 because of the extra range battery which I would have done on my first choice of a Biktrix mid drive , but from what I has seen online for me to insure my eBike I am limited to a 750 motor. Maybe after I own my first eBike for a while I may dump the insurance for a 1000 watt motor and feel the freedom.
Those motor watt numbers mean nothing. You should dyno your bike to see what the power is. You can take any motor and tune it to have constant 750 W on the dyno. 750 W at 40 rpm is almost 200 Nm.
Thank you guys for taking the time to make this video. I'm still on the fence
That was the best way to describe what was the difference between the two E bike on the video i saw so far
Enjoyed the vid. IMO, there is more of a difference then you let on. If you live in a hilly and/or mountainous area there will be a noticeable difference not just in speed but in effort, can be a big difference.
Ok but what's better in that situation
My hub motor can tourque up hills fine and my shifting is solely dependant on my legs. With enough volts the hub motor hits that 35mph mark pretty well. It's a simpler design and I think it's more durable and rebuild able and I can have a hollow tech crankset
Oh cause it can drive up hill if it has enough power :D , but all things equal having gears always would be way more efficient.
If you had mid drive you would fly that hill even faster. Plus I imagine how hot that hub was inside after climbing that hill.
But I am not saying that hub can not be fun to ride :D
@@myentertainment55 I don't like the appearance of middrive and my bottom bracket is nice. My bike doesn't lack performance. The efficiency of the motor is really good in that it meets demands well and operates more simple.
If I had a touring bike I'd use hub motor because it is more durable and demands less on my chain.
I can haul a trailer of groceries and my son up very steep alleyways fine. It uses much more power than a middrive. But if I go slow and help that isnt much the case and in other situations the efficiency is the same pretty much.
@@myentertainment55 Gears are always lossy. Gears are not 100% efficient. Solar race cars don't use gears because they would loose too much energy.
@@chrisprice5895 Also a hub drive is much cheaper than a mid drive, so you can just buy a bigger battery for the same price.
@@difflocktwo That is the big difference for me, my rear hub seems to work just fine, maxes out at just under 33 MPH. It seems very well made and it only cost me $2k. Most of the mid drive bikes were considerably more expensive.
Best explanation of hub and gear, and it was very nice to see the video and you guys are very easy to listen to 7:34
Great video. I liked mid drive due to the ease of fixing flats. At the moment i have 3 bikes. A 2004 Brodie Dynamo (regular bike) A 2018 Surface604 Colt (500w Hub). Two days ago (March 07 2023) i got a 2022 CUBE Kathmandu Hybrid ONE 500. (going to sell the Surface604)
The first day i rode it i had no idea about it better to change gears. On the Colt i just kept it in one or two gears the whole time. Yesterday i stopped at the bike shop to pick up a second lock. Got to talking and dealer mentioned it better to change gears. So today on the ride i did that and what a difference it makes. The first day i kept the Cube in "tour" power mode as it seemed to go faster (felt similar to the hub drive in power)
Today i went out and used the gearing and it was fantastic. I kept the power in "eco" mode. Just loving this bike. I am 65 so it was tough riding the Brodie for long distance. On the Cube i have super range (around 130km). The first day i did 35km and today 40km. My electric bikes never see rain or below zero temps. Not that they couldnt but i like to keep them clean. The Surface604 looks brand new.
I've owned both and I like the middrive for off road riding. The only thing I hate about the hub drive is changing a flat tire on the darn thing and climbing steep hills.
Why not patch a flat instead of changing it? With ebikes you can use motorcycle tires and rims, way fewer flats.
Armour Dilloz in your tire will fix flats! Mid drive is more maintenance and you're screwed if the chain breaks! There are rear hub drives with plenty of power and torque! Mine has a 2500 watt peak and 90nm torgue plus a 40 amp controller!
no problem climbing hills on hub motors over 1500w ,changing flat takes about 5 min ,no problem there either,on the other hand mid drive have a high pitch noise wich i can't stand , my 6000w hub motor is as quiet as a grave even on steep hills ....
They are easy to fix if you can find the leak. I have only had to take one wheel off.
@@wezlydog as long as the authorities let you ride a 2500w ebike on the streets, then I guess it's ok. Yes, the threat of a broken chain is always a concern, but I do carry a spare.
I've had both and I prefer the hub. In my opinion, the hub is a better option for most riders. You're not banging gears all the time and less problems. If you don't mind fixing your bike and you want better performance, the mid drive is the way to go.
for a city setting it is fine to use a hub. for emtb ofroad use mid drive all the way.
I agree. I really would like a Stromer with the gear less rear hub. That thing will last a very long time.
Bring gears and power setting under software control i have a mid-drive (bosch cx based) bicycle and have no shifted in 6000km. This way the system can also keep everything in the correct powerrange and that helps not breaking things. Its still true there are more parts that can break but you get a much nicer ride in return.
I do some light to moderate single-tracking and lots of fairly steep forest road riding on my eventon aventure. It's not quite as good as a mid drive but it's only a third the price. It is still really fun.
Awesome explanation. Thank you.
Excellent description. Very helpful. Thank you.
Thanks still going to get a hub motor. Less maintenance and cheaper to replace.
Good demo. One thing I think might have been mentioned was how much battery power was used on each bike. Powering up the hill on the hub drive I would think would be using more battery power than the mid drive shifted down.
Guess that would depend on a lot of factors, like the gear your bike is in, the PAS level and of course your leg strength. I can pedal my hub drive ebike up huge hills in PAS 1 and 1st gear, the motor hardly helps. By the same account you could have bad knees and PAS 5 it'll burn a lot more power. It all depends on how you use it.
Extremely useful content and explanations as I decide what e-bike to invest in! Much appreciated.
Great practical demonstration easy to grasp the difference, I have been struggling to figure it out before buying
This review was well done and informative. I still have a question. Why do I never hear that hub drives have the possibility of a regenerative braking system. When I 'coast' downhill I turn the motor into a generator, by simply pushing a button, that charges the battery. This method has 2 big positive effects. One is that the brakes are hardly used. The only time I use the brakes are to slow to a stop from a very low speed. This has the positive effect that one has to change the brake pads less often. The second plus is that it improves the range. Going down a mountain grade for around 20 minutes gives you about 5% power returned to the battery. Is this not an option on bikes in the US? I have a 'Stromer' and the regenerative brakes are always included. I think that a mid drive motor cannot have a regenerative braking system. This is never mentioned on videos comparing hub drives with mid drive motors.
Its because regenerative breaks cause more wear and tear on the battery and make them loose capacity faster
@@lessdatesmoreonmyplates1457 It is because you would need a bike that has a cassette but no freewheel, which I don't think exists (as on normal bikes this would cause the crank to spin like a blender when coasting down hill).
Also, regeneration does not cause more wear and tear on the battery or make them loose capacity. This has been tested on the eBike forum, and just makes rational sense considering that regen charging currents tend to be much lower than wall charger currents.
It is an option, you just have to get a direct drive hub not a geared hub
@@lessdatesmoreonmyplates1457 regenerative brakes do not cause wear on the battery. they also reduce wear on brake pads.
@@benjaminsmith4058 a bike with no freewheel exists
Wondering, to be a fair comparison, why didn't you put the hub duo also on PAS 5 (max)?!
I currently have a cadence-sensing rear-hub motor e-bike and when I put it on max PAS it gives all the power to motor and easily reach the restricted speed and then it becomes ghost pedalling!
Of course you don't need that much gearing up and down when riding a hub motor bike because hub motor force drives the wheel directly (motor's rotor is fixed to frame and motor's case turns and drives the wheel - connected via spokes) and gearing is for adjusting your own pedalling cadence.
I rarely go on low gear, only when going steep up hill. The bike can be easier to ride at full stop using the throttle a bit and shifting down 2-3 cogs (preferably before you stop) to have a smoother cadence at start.
Exactly this. He rode almost the whole trip on PAS5 and she only changed to it right at the end.
@@xtrck I picked up on that too and wondered why, but I think they were trying to demonstrate the more casual appeal of the hub drive. She did show that climbing the hill was effortless at PAS4, which I think was a key point to touch on. Sure the mid-drive made it up faster, but it's not like the hub was incapable. They have another video on the Juggernaut line that does show a Hub Duo vs. a Classic (750w mid-drive) vs. a Ultra (1000w mid-drive) going all-out up the same hill. Shows that the Hub drive is more than capable, doing 18 MPH up a 6% grade.
Clear. Concise, and informative. Thank you.
Amazing video. I learned a lot from this. Thank you so much. You got yourself a new subscriber.
Seams to me that creating a mid hub and a hub motor would be great as a tandem especially if your chain ever breaks. I just bought a Lectric 2.0 and now I'm considering doing an add on with a Bafang Mid hub motor so I can get up to over 35 MPH however 20 MPH is plenty fast on a bike so we'll see.
There are bikes with rear hub motors 2000 watts or more! They can fly up hills!
Front hub and you have 2 wheel drive
The problem, is as I see it, is coordinating the two motors so they have the same power curve from a dead stop.
Way I see it, you want the rear hub to have a motor to get you going quicker, so you can keep up with cars from when a stop light changes, and then use the Bafang motor to have a higher top end.
A front wheel hub motor is a bad idea, by the way. Why? Because the amount of weight is by far the least on a front wheel versus a back wheel. And you want all of the torque and power through the rear wheel, so that it gets most efficiently used.
However, I am thinking that for towing purposes, should I get an E-bike, I'm going to want to have both a rear hub motor and a mid-motor. The rear hub motor would be used for towing a steel 47 lb (21.32 kg) wagon I use for hauling everything from heavy tools to groceries. And I have hills I ride on in my town, some steeper than others, but one hill in particular that has at least a 20 or 25% gradient (I'm not being hyperbolic. On a normal pedal bike, non-assisted, I can reach a 40-50 mph top speed going down that hill pretty easy with little effort, though I've never actually measured it before.) Basically, if I programmed such a bike, I would have the rear hub only be used for towing purposes, as the extra torque would be useful from a dead stop, given that while I tow my wagon normally, I rarely, if ever, get out of the low gear on the crankset (the bike is a 29" 21-speed MTB I've modified to be a behind-pull bike, instead of a side-pull bike, as the wagon is a behind-pull wagon, rather than a side-pull trailer, as most bike trailers are). The other consideration is the weight limit: all told, I need a motor that can pull 1000 lbs without issue. The wagon has a weight capacity of 1000 pounds (453.59 kg), plus it's own 47 lb weight. And given I don't have a car or truck right now, I do automotive work as a side hustle, and need a way to carry/haul tools like a low-profile 3-ton jack and jackstands as cargo in the wagon.
This is a very good video about the benefits of each motor type, however I wish they would have talked about the pro's and the con's of each drive type. Such as how while hub drives might be slower in speed at the same wattage, hub drives are more reliable in the long term and require less maintenance than mid drives.
Mid drive's are a great idea for those who want more torque, however mid drives also suffer from a few problems. The gears and chains found on most modern ebike's are not built to handle that kind of power and so are worn out or broken much more quickly. If your chain breaks on a trip your walking home unless you have a spare. This is also true of the motor mounting points on cheaper mid drive bikes where the frame might not be properly designed to put torque like that on the crank shaft and may crack or break over time.
Hub drive's while great at what they do, being more efficient, quieter and easier to maintain, are not without their own problems as well. Hub drives transfer the torque from the motor directly to the wheel through the spokes, this puts a lot more stress on the spokes of the wheel so over time they will loosen, bend and eventually break without proper maintenance. This can be mitigated by using a magnesium spoke wheel, the spokes are thicker and designed to handle more torque.
Both technologies have their ups and downs and its important to remember that their adjacent technology might not always be quite up to the task of working alongside a hub motor or mid-drive motor. Issues like this can give people bad impression's of a technology or product simply due to a lack of knowledge.
I myself commute and travel on an eBike, their a ton of fun and amazing to ride and explore places you've never been! Just be aware of what you're getting yourself into so you can be prepared.
Very well put thank you for the info
Actually it's mid drive which has advantage for efficiency:
Drive train with multiple gears allows running motor at around optimal RPM.
While hub drive has to do huge RPM variation from stand still to max assist speed, because of that direct fixed connection to wheel.
Well he's selling both types of bicycle styles. You're welcome to buy the rear hub motor.
Great info all
Well said thanks for the info.
Great channel! I hope many more people find out about you. Great presentation, very informative and visually entertaining as well!
Finally, an informative video. Thank you.
If she had put her ebike in gear 7 and used PAS 5, with minimal pedaling, she would have gone much faster. Not really a fair comparison.
I wanted to see that too😁
I think the point was..the owner of a rear hub doesn’t need to know all that. However, I’m sure the young lady in this video did.
You failed to mention the biggest drawback to the mid drive motor: you can break the chain if you don't know when to shift. Plus the chain is used and stretched more than for the hub motor
He also failed to mention how much spoke tension the hub drive motor causes.
@@brandonjeffery8023 you are funny but there are people who ride with a spare chain because of that issue
@@ColinPopoviciu ?
@@brandonjeffery8023 with the mid drive motor you are very likely to break the chain if you don't know how and when to shift. Look it up
@@ColinPopoviciu Oh, that's what you mean. I think the increased spoke tension is a bigger maintenance problem though. It's very rare to actually break a chain and if you do they are easy to replace and they are only like 20$.
So helpful, I know now the HUB drive bike is what I need to start with .
Very informative. Helped me understand the difference. Glad I made the right decision for my needs!
My Aventon hub motor quickly gets to 33 mph. It climbs any hill in PAS. Hub motors can destroy your gears if you shift under load.
That's why you shift before the hill.
I much prefer hub motors for a lot of reasons not mentioned in this video (or skipped over quickly) and also a lot of reasons you have given in favour of mid-drive like reliability and simplicity which I would say is far superior on hub motors but still an interesting video with a very strong bias I would say. Ultimately the ability to scale power through the gears on a mid-drive motor is a strong positive but then its also why the gearing wears so much quicker on mid-drive. I would strongly recommend people try both types and decide for themselves but also factor in long term costs which you have to research yourself. Most of the ebikes in the world use hub motors but I realise that is a cost factor rather than necessarily better yet forums seem to full of failing mid-drive motors with huge repair costs. Whatever you are considering check out if there has been any recalls and typical repair costs etc. Also check out cost of replacement batteries and how easy it is to customise that system if that is important to you. Lots of things to consider with an ebike. I personally prefer a hub motor for the road and a mid-drive for off-road.
We have no reason to be biased because we sell mid drives and hub drives. The point we really wanted to drive home was that mid drives are awesome only if you use gears properly. Otherwise, a hub drive is just fine.
@@Biktrix I'm not going to write a long reply because history has taught me they get deleted but every retail organisation has bias in my opinion it is the very nature of business. I watched a video yesterday where a 15 year old hub motor had new bearings after 10s of thousands of miles and was pretty much good to go. Yes one of the electrical components needed replacing but it turned out it only needed one leg soldered in fact. Here is the video;
th-cam.com/video/92aAfYXBgbg/w-d-xo.html
The idea that a mid-drive motor could somehow achieve that level of reliability is pretty much an engineering impossibility. Mid-drive motors typically have many nylon cogs and even belts that take the small motor up to high levels of torque plus you have all the power of the rider going through the same bearings within the mid-drive unit. They are good units for retailer revenue but not so good for consumers who want a long term reliable ebike with low maintenance and low expense. The vast majority of ebikes in the world are hub motor based probably something like 95% or more, yes I realise that is mainly due to pricing in most markets. Here in the UK the average price of a bike sold including ebikes is about £380 and in some markets its much lower like Italy. I can't find any similar data in the US across all retail channels by googling but I didn't spend much time searching. I just think its important people have a fair perspective. Mid-drive might be the performance option but like most performance options it comes with high pricing and poor reliability. Many people have used direct drive hub motor ebikes with almost no costs at all for 10s of thousands of miles and geared hub motors operate for many thousands of miles without issues and then might need just a replacement of the planetary gears and you might as well replace the bearings at the same time. The clutch mechanism in geared hub motors can be completely freewheeling without drag unlike mid-drive and direct drive hub motors. All motor types have positives and negatives and have applications where they are ideal compared to the other solutions.
@@bonzobanana1 over our last 7+ years in business and over 15,000 bikes later, we have seen both. We’ve seen premature failures on hub and mid drives. We’ve also seen flawless hub and mid-drives with 10s or thousands of miles.
Like we said before, both motors can be good or bad for you, depending on your use case.
@@Biktrix I've seen mid-drive service engineers explain that mid-drives will always be far less reliable based on how they function. Despite being the premium end and a niche part of the market we have seen huge issues with many mid-drive failures including Specialized extending the warranty from 2 to 4 years because of horrendous failure rate with Brose motors. A direct drive hub motor has no moving parts except the bearings on the axle, nothing to wear out, no nylon cogs, no belts etc. Incredibly simple design. The hub itself is literally a brushless motor.
@@bonzobanana1 hud drives is a brushless motor with a gear reduction. It’s the same for mid drives. Unless you’re talking about a direct drive hub which has no gears and is proven to be more reliable. However, to get 120-160Nm of torque from a direct drive hub, it’ll be about 50lbs mass.
So far I am extremely impressed especially either at how fast you talk or that you speed up your talking when you edit the video but either way I don't have to speed up the video myself because you talk nice and fast thank you so much for that besides all of the excellent instruction and correct and critical information you share for me to make an intelligent decision
Great video, I’m new & interested in fat tire e bikes & this was very helpful. Mid engine is what I was leaning on .
Price difference is like 1400.00 to 6500.00 Hub drive it is.
My hub drive velo wave peaks at 34 mph I don't need a mid drive untill I can afford 80 mph
I have a hub moter and a mate of mid had a broken chain and I took mine off and and fitted it so he manged to limp home thank god for my direct drive 😏😏😏
Edit:also you can change the controler to one with modes and more for a hub motor also with a bit of research you can play with setting on some screen models and controlers but this is more common with gearless motors ore if you want to take geared motor route look at getting mettle gears instead of the stock plastic ones
I've also found a hub motor tends to like roads better vs a mid-drive just loves tering up off road 😁
Sorry for all that but alot wasn't said ✌✌
Excellent video on the difference between Hub vs Mid Drive motors. It's also an EXCELLENT video on how to make a video.
Thanks for this info. I'm wanting an E-Bike and this is good to know. Thank You.
That was a really good comparison, but you rode the mid- Drive in PA 5 while your partner rode mostly in PA 2. Wouldn't that have made a huge difference in speed?
It’s really up for personal preference as to how much pedal assist the rider wants to use..
I own and ride both a hub drive and a mid drive. On my mid drive I have 9 levels of PAS. On my hub drive I have 5 levels of PAS. Comparing PAS from one type of motor to the other is difficult. Each manufacturer can have different software/controllers, so they are not usually 1 for 1. Both of my ebikes have Bafang motors, but the controller software is different on them. Some ebikes allow you to set how many levels you have ( 0-9) in Pedal Assist.
@@Todd66 I ordered a new Dost e-bike that has the Bafang 750 watt mid drive. I like the idea that you can custom program each power assist level providing more flexibility. Just curious if you ever custom programmed your mid driver or not?
@@tampajim100 well I bought the usb cable and downloaded a different profile for the controller….does that count? It really fine tuned the controller in my opinion. Took about 10min to find the website, download and flash the controller. I did that one time and have not messed with it since….it was perfect for me. I would advise anyone capable to do it. I also have a eggrider V2 that allows you to do even more, but I like the bigger display, so I do not use my V2. The eggrider is pretty cool, you download a app to your smartphone, and have live data and the ability to customize each PAS level. You can even use your phone as your display if you wish. I just did like the idea of having my expensive phone on top of my handle bars, and I don’t care for the User Interface compared to my 850c display.
I have a feeling you are going to love your new ebike.
Thanks for commenting Jim, have a great weekend.
@@Biktrix Of course, it is a personal preference to how much pedal assist the rider wants to use, but then you can decide to not use motor assist at all as well. Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to come out rude at all, but for me, to say that it would be a fair comparison doesn't bear any logic and common sense at all. A comparison is only fair and objective under similar conditions, in this case with the same level of motor assist on both bikes.
Very beautiful bikes btw. and nonetheless, thank you for making this video!
My experience with hub motors is a bit different. I start pedaling at 15km/h, and as soon and I press the throttle I'm instantly at 45km/h and I'm like... There is little reason son pedal at all. This is a motorbike.
It is literally more of a motorbike than a motorbike.
Motorbikes have engines unless it's electric, and ebikes have motors lol
Pedal response has nothing to do with motors. Get a better motor controller and sensors for a better experience.
Nice job. Simple important terms and language. 👍 Thanks 😊
This was the most clear explanation, thanks.
The comparison to shifting gears in a car doesn't quite work; combustion and electric motors can have way different power bands. Some electric motors can have very similar torque at all rpms especially if the controller is tuned to deliver a certain amount of power at certain rpms.
Came here to say the same. They should have noticed that Electric cars have a fixed gear ratio. They don't have a gearbox, because they don't need it.
Exactly
I am an older ebike rider and the hub is better for me. However if I was younger I would have liked the mid drive ✌❤🙂
Thanks for the information, you explained the two types of drive very well.
Wow absolutely impressive video and details. Lots of thoughts and hard work done on this video.
Every mid drive bike i have looked at weighs a ton compared to its hub drive counterpart, its just as an aside comment, my own ride is front hub MTB, and therefore 2WD, i dont do huge distances but have lots of serious hills in my local off road trails, maybe because 2wd spreads the effort? but my bike copes easy, a buddy swings by to ride them with me on his Yamaha powered Mid drive MTB, but the size & weight comparison is frankly ludicrous,( no advantage gained) he can hardly maneuver it onto his rack, in order to get to the offroad stuff , we have to do some on road work, we have some sport when he brakes away , but can easily catch him, and vice versa, probably mid drive is "better" but in reality it comes down to practical application to YOUR circumstances / needs.