Does A Reverse Flow Offset Make MORE Sense For The Backyard? | Smoke North Echo First Look
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Was I Wrong To Skip A Reverse Flow Offset When I Was Shopping For My First Offset Smoker? I have an opportunity to test the pre-production Smoke North Echo reverse flow offset to find out if I made the right choice or if perhaps was too quick to overlook the reverse flow category when shopping for a backyard sized patio offset smoker.
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Chapters
00:00 - Was I wrong to skip the reverse flow design?
01:43 - 3 Reasons why NOT get a reverse flow offset
04:25 - Texas style smoking evolution (rise of the offset)
06:41 - 3 Issues behind Texas BBQ joints ditching their offset smokers
09:50 - Advantages of the reverse flow design
14:37 - Echo walk around & first fire
19:00 - How even are the grid temps?
21:28 - First impressions & whats next
#SMOKINGDADBBQ #reverseflow #offsetsmoker - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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As a user of a large reverse flow 300+g, the main issue I see is the lack of air flow. Rather, learning how to best use the pit to get the best airflow. Hot air wants to rise. As it travels it slows down., in an RF it has to travel very far. If your pit drops temp it’s gonna really affect the ability of the pit to suck/push smoke through the chamber again. Get the pit VERY hot before adding meat, like 300+, the drop in temp after adding meat will be okay. Try getting the pit hot with cold meat, mines takes 16 15lb trimmed brisket bottom racks, it will take way too long to come up to temp. Thats a lot of hot air wanting to fall/cool instead of lift. Second issue is if you’re using the top rack, and bottom rack. The hot air and smoke will get stuck at the top of the chamber, when that happens, your bottom rack won’t get as much smoke. It will get some “direct” heat flavors from the baffles. Rotation of meats will be necessary if both racks are used. Bark building will be hard too, dripping fat from the top will affect the lower racks even with rotating. A major benefit is the speed of the BBQ reaching done temps. You can get only so much smoke into the meat so getting the meat done faster, is a benefit here. Compared to my 250g in the backyard, the big RF is more fun to use. I like the challenge of the work needed to execute a cook for my food truck.
Great video. Why not do brisket, ribs, pulled pork, and sausage all at the same time? Show how a restaurant might utilize the space in the same cooker to produce various proteins. You'll have to work backwards to figure out when everything needs to go on, but at the end you'll have a bbq feast and you can see how the pit performs with the different meats.
Thnx so much. Very informative. I have a home built reverse flow but contemplated a new regular smoker - this helps me stay focused on reverse flow. Thnx for the history lesson.
Woof woof great post up. Great grills. Great cooks. Great meals. Keep up the Greatness and this was a high quality post up for so many who know how to cook. But you made them even better.
Thanks 👍
That's a super nice looking smoker. I will be looking forward to seeing how it performs. With a smoker like that I would go straight for a brisket. Great video James.
9:40 is where discussion of the articles title takes place......Great discussion!!
Great overview and can’t wait to see more on this Echo Reverse Flow. Adding to my list to get!
Nice new spin! I really think you should buy 3 or 4 to decorate your yard 🙂 Thanks for another great vid. I'm looking forward to seeing your results!
Those are great looking smokers. As for reverse flow, the debate will continue on what's best. The offset was problem solver that continues to evolve. Per usual, you did a fantastic job exploring this topic and provided much detail for someone making a decision on what to buy. I'll be watching this video more than once for sure! Cheers!
Thanks. I am looking forward to some tests to see the results but this is a great start
@@SmokingDadBBQagreed, it is a GREAT start….maybe, if time permits, a turkey??….(tis the season…)….
Awesome video! Love your whay of explaining stuff. Since you've compared airflow on Kamado vs Offset, it would be nice to add this reverse flow data to that list, since it will (probably) have a direct impact on bark results. Cheers from Brazil!
Another informative video!! Thanks, James! Keep up the amazing work! I love how You go into so much detail
I appreciate that!
Amazing video. Honestly before it I never heard of a reverse smoker. Now I’m investigating.
Great video and appreciate you sharing your thought process. Crazy how even the temps were across the space! Looking forward to what you think on the cooks and whether you can taste a difference vs the traditional offset design.
On the tax situation for US buyers, you phrased it right, our “use tax”. Technically a US buyer shouldn’t avoid the sales tax because it’s based on where the item is to be used and so we’re supposed to keep track of purchases like this (where tax wasn’t collected on our behalf) and remit it directly. As you can imagine, not something that happens very often. I’m not even sure I’d know how to mechanically do it.
Enjoying the references to articles I’d enjoy reading, thank you
I enjoyed those too. Glad you liked them, cheers
Thanks for the history and all the detailed information you provided about the history of offsets. I would do a butt, ribs and brisket at the same time with a chicken for fun. I glad you are doing this test as I still trying to figure out if offset or pizza oven in my smaller back yard.
I need to do a pizza video on it. I was really impressed
The reverse flow i built a few years ago is pretty much a carbon copy of this one other then the fire box and my stack is welded on. I've found that filling the baffle plate with water for the cook helps with slowing down the cook. Also with mine i can adjust how even it cooks just by changing the level of the cooker. I can get it to be within 5 degrees side to side all the way up to almost 35 degrees side to side
I’m so excited for you to try this, James. I got to cook on the new Goldee’s pit this weekend and really enjoyed having the meat separated from the fire. Maybe you and I both need new additions to the back yard!
Can’t wait to see that one
Super well put together. Great video.
Much appreciated!
Great thorough explanation! Great video, definitely subscribing 👊🏼
Welcome aboard!
Greetings from Texas! Very thorough video, have always loved reverse flow offsets, used to have a backyard one from a big box store brand some years ago. Smoke north definitely makes some great products. I absolutely love that upper rack! Great video, long time subscriber here, keep it up!!
Thanks for watching!
Great video! I have had a lot of curiosity about reverse flow smokers and I look forward to the information you will be sharing. It would be great if you could smoke the same cuts on your standard offset smoker simultaneously as a control or standard to judge the results of the reverse flow. One of the common complaints seems to be that reverse flow smokers don’t produce the same quality. Keep up the great work!
Found this really interesting thanks James
Glad to hear it! Thanks
Great video as always! While you have both in your back yard, love to see you do a brisket on the reverse flow and one on the Huron at the same time and compare. Looking forward to see what you come up with!
Great idea! Will do
Thank you for another great video! I think a shortest first cook would be a good start - similar to your video about learning to use a Kamado.
Great video, looking forward to that first cook!!
Thanks
Such a cool video. I hadn’t even heard of reverse flow.
Thanks. It’s pretty slick
I considered reverse flow as well. Like you, I told myself I preferred the traditional style as I don't like the heat source coming from the bottom (at least when it's not in a two-zone setup like it would be in a Komodo Kamado or something).
Great video again, would be interested to see the difference in chimney heat between a offset and a reverse flow. I think the reverse flow holds the meat in the smoke longer.
This will be a fun series.
Can’t wait
I've watched a lot of your videos and when I saw your dryer tube mod to the offset I started wondering why not just get a reverse flow. A ton of people have modded their cheap box store offsets into reverse flow setups over the years. I'm surprised reverse flow isn't more common to be honest, it just makes sense.
I agree with your suggestion on the top rack also, move it down a hair or add the ability to manipulate it's location for more usable area.
Good video and informative. I'll be looking forward to your first cook!
thanks!
Another excellent video! I vote for the ribs first!
Cheers from Arizona!!
Thanks for voting
Great video. Can’t wait for your cooks. I have a Shirley Reverse Flow and when I bought it I didn’t even know it was a reverse flow smoker. I thought all offsets were the same. Stupid me. I’m a bit smarter now I think. Shirley puts out great food and it’s owners are almost like a cult they love them so much.
I see that now for sure
Great video. Be interesting to hear your thoughts after a few cooks. 🍻
Thanks 👍
Great video and looking forward to your next video on the reverse! I have owned two Lang reverse flow smokers, a Lang 48 and I now have a Lang 84 (250 gallon). I personally love how they cook, but I tend to cook mostly on top rack on my 84, where there is less heat from the baffle plate. Just my preference. Since it cooks faster than a direct smoker, I also cook on slightly lower temp to get same traditional offset flavor profile.
I’m curious to try side by side the flavour differences. Since this video I’ve done a cook and the smoke was clean, excellent if not light. Not sure if it’s lighter or just a clean fire the entire time
@@SmokingDadBBQ Lighter smoke flavor seem to be common feedback on the reverse flows. I find slightly lower temp and closing the damper a little (and cooking on top rack on the 250 gallon) mitigates all of this. A larger smoker is definitely easier to cook on than a smaller, IMO.
Thanks for reviewing a reverse flow. I've been touting this design on every BBQ channel I watch including yours. You mentioned most of the things I think are advantages of a reverse flow. It drives me crazy watching people avoid 1/3 of the grate/space to avoid hot spots.
I have not taken the plunge to buy a proper smoker yet. I have a COS that I bought a kit for to simulate the baffle plate effect but I'm intently searching for a replacement now. I am confused though, maybe I missed it, but their site does not show any reverse flow for sale. They have two offsets both are straight flow.
I watched the rib cook video first, but I suggest a long cook, shoulder or brisket. Maybe change it up and do a pastrami video. I make pastrami all the time. It keeps my wife happy.
Loved the video...did you maintain the 240 temp on the true tell gauges when you moved the probes to the top rack? If you did, can you say that the top rack was about 10 degrees warmer?
Would love to see a test between open pit over coals vs offset vs the kamado. The best BBQ that I've had came from open pit rather than offset.
Hi James,
Brad here down in NJ.
Hope you had a smoking summer....
I haven't had much time to really comment on your awesome videos as this one!
So it's Wednesday October26th and I have 2 13Lbs briskets on the Big Joe.
James I'm using my heat deflector plates and then I put my pizza stone on then my 2 drip pans , I'm dialed in at 160/170 degrees or 71 Celsius plus .
I'm doing an over night cook.
going to wrap them at 165/170 .
I'm doing a contest with 5 church friends ands for An early October fest party, 140,00 plus people.
Cheers Friend.
Brad,
I'm down the hill from you lol.
Right on!
I’ve been kicking around building a smoker. I have a 60 gallon tank in my shop already. Seems like the Goldie’s is is the best bang for the amount of steel needed to build it. Sure there’s a hot spot right at the mouth. But not enough real estate lost to do the reverse flow design.
Another great video James, I would cook 3 briskets, at the same time, without rotating them or moving them around the pit to see how evenly it really cooks. Cheers!!!
Good idea
Been smoking on a reverse flow Pitt for 16 years. Never had an issue, best thing about reverse flow is consistent temp I. The pit. Basically all I ever did was light it, fill the pit with meat, add wood and pull my finish meat out.
2-3, hr for chicken
3-1/2, hr to 4 for ribs
5-6 hr for brisket and butts then wrap it up in a pan 2 more hours for brisket or till it hit 185 internal 3-4 hours till butt hit 205-210
I fell in love with this and ended up buying out the demo and selling my direct flow
Great video. Unbelievable temperature discrepancy. Brisket first. Fuel efficiency and airflow at the stack outlet will be very interesting data. Thanks again.
Thanks. I’ve not seen many smokers of any size do much better at providing consistent temps left to right / up and down let alone at this scale. That’s pretty impressive
Glad to see the temp comparisons in the video, that confirms my suspicions regarding the heat profile of the reverse flow. I have a kamado, large offset, and have some tanks ready to build another smaller ultra mobile steel cooker. I was planning on a reverse flow and this video cemented that decision. An interesting comparison, and one I am planning myself, might be to half a brisket and cook both pieces in the reverse flow then take half the brisket after it should be done taking on smoke flavor, and finishing in the kamado during an unattended overnight burn. I have done a brisket only on my kamado and I was not happy with the flavor and texture of the bark compared to a "traditional" offset. I live in Texas so I am fortunate enough to have tried numerous briskets from various bbq dynasties and the kamado just wasnt quite there. Thinking a hybrid might give the best of both worlds while letting me get a good nights sleep
I haven’t edited it yet… but my best Kamado brisket I just did using the pizza oven accessory (DoJoe) as it measured 4x more air wind speed exiting the pit than the top vent on my other kj using the sloroller
But I agree best is relative to the absolute best … my offset moves 20x more air using the same tool so eventually you just can’t make up for that
@@SmokingDadBBQ Very interesting, I look forward to seeing that. I would have to agree, while the Kamado does do a good job I dont think it can fully replicate the drying effect of the airflow and the flavor of a naturally cured all wood fire. All that being said I still think the Kamado is the best all around grill and bbq appliance if you only have room for one
How is the echo VS the Huron? Thanks! I can’t stop watching your videos. Very informative.
here is the first head to head - th-cam.com/video/_rpFLkkdN24/w-d-xo.html
Probably the best welds that I've ever seen on smokers.
Cheers
Hey, so, great vid. You’re a nice guy. So, is it possible that the temp probes could be affected by the steel of the grill? So it’s not measuring air temps, but the steel temps which are more easily distributed equally?
Like all others are saying, great video James… and I second the vote for a brisket video and a rib video…..
Right on
Just bought the Oakford 1150 reverse flow (1150sq inches) from Home Depot. Its a great starter for bigger cook chambers and getting used to managing the fire. Would love to work one day on the offsets you have in the vid! They seem huge! Where do you get it from? Thanks for the vid! Here from Vancouver!
Great vid. Here in Texas, check out Hard Eight BBQ and their huge smokers. Food is great too!
Thanks
I have a reverse flow smoker and my issue is the baffle. I think it is set too close to the grate the food cooks on. For things like a brisket, the bottom cooks waaaay faster and has a tendency to burn. I am going to experiment with adding foil water pans to see if that helps. I'll also add that the other issue I have is the fire box. It is a cube and not a cylinder. I have a hard time maintaining a consistent coal bed without using more wood and increasing my temperatures to a level much too high for my food. Due to the flat bottom, the coals are spread all over the place instead of the middle like in a cylindrical fire box. The door also opens on the front instead of the side and I think that creates issues for the overall air flow. I wish it opened from the side to aid the air flow direction. Anyways cook and learn. Hindsight is 20/20. Looking forward to your cooking videos on these smokers.
I have a square firebox on a "large for consumer" sized offset that I have had for a number of years. I struggled with fire management initially because there was a large coal grate on the bottom that was supposed to let ash flow through to a catch tray. It did work for that purpose, but that also meant I had the same issue you are having. The coals would fall through the grate and extinguish and I had to run a larger than necessary fire to keep it lit. I remedied this by taking a piece of large C channel steel stock and putting it in the firebox to hold a smaller coal bed together. I can drop one split in the middle of the coal bed and that is enough to maintain temp. For your situation I would suggest getting some temperature safe bricks and arranging them in a U configuration in the middle of the firebox, with maybe a couple extra stacked up in front of the air inlet to eliminate the hot spot created by the draft, or maybe in line with the draft. That way you can add insulation and containment to keep a proper tight coal bed and try different orientations to get an even burn and even heating in the cook chamber. Just a thought, hope it helps
I love your content, sir. I've learned a lot. I have a question for you, since you LOVE experimenting... I would be interested to see what happens if you mix pellets in with the charcoal rather than use chunks of wood. Crazy thought?? Idk..
I’ve not recorded but they burn very fast. Will give it another try
Probes are sitting on the same metal grid. What are air temps?
Was not expecting another Smoke North new unit! Awesome to see, as more options are better! I'd start with Ribs, but would also like to see the gamut, so chicken (maybe do a Hawaiian Huli-Huli style without the flipping basket), brisket, or really go for it with a whole small piglet? Do we know if they are planning a large reverse flow to out capacity the Huron?
Neither was I lol. Thankfully it’s borrowed this time around 😂
Not sure … if they modified the upper grate I think I will get 6-8 briskets in there so not even sure larger is needed?
Great smoker and wonderful video! Do you think the baffle is ready to put coals/fire over to use the smoker sometime as a grilling bbq
This is an interesting question. But I wonder, what would be the advantage of the reverse flow smoker compared to normal offset? I think the problem with putting coals in the cook chamber is that it will speed up rusting on the surrounding areas of high heat. So I assume the reverse flow would rust in the baffle and probably the bottom of the cook chamber would last longer.
Looks great! Only observation is the location of the temp probe. The sensor inside the cook chamber appears too close to the point at which the heat makes its uturn and enters the cook chamber. It might help to relocate it more to the right of the chamber. Perhaps over the door about 40% into the length of the chamber.
Will try a few different places but it was reading what the 4 digital probes were
So what happens if you make a brisket and comare this with and without firebrick or something similar on the baffleplate to prevent conduction heat from the baffleplate?
As the surface is so big and the temps so close, why not do these 2 briskets to compare at the same time?
Had a feeling this was coming , Chuds BBQ is not crazy about a reverse flow , so I’d say try a brisket first. Want to see what happens to the bottom
James love the channel. Has Smoke North given you an idea on when they expect availability to consumers.
yes, they just started pre-orders on the website which is currently quoting spring time deliveries
What brand is your 4 Probe thermometer. We have a saying down here wouldn't you rather have a Shirley Fabrication. I hope you have more videos on the weber e6. I just picked one up and have alot of experimentation to do.
For sure have more on the summit. That was the chefs temp
You always hear the issue of the bottom plate creating heat issues with the reverse flow.
It would be interesting to see one cook with a dry smoker and one with water, and the effects on the proteins, and ease of maintaining pit temps.
I’m definitely curious. Spoiler, first cook was about 20% faster but not burning. Maybe lighter smoke will need to compare side by side but my guess is slightly lighter
But … if you lose any slight smoke difference (which I’m not sure is the case yet) you gain on the ease of use side
Great presentation. Curious to find out how it will perform.
You and me both!
@@SmokingDadBBQ I've never cooked on a reverse flow smoker. From what I've seen, the downside seems to
be the radiated heat from the very hot bottom plate. That ought not be an issue when cooking on the upper rack. I wonder whether adding an second layer of steel plate on the bottom, with an airgap, might correct some of the downside. It could slow down cooking time, thus adding more smoke flavor. Food for thought.
i mightve missed it in your video, but any idea when these become available for purchase?
I think they said pre orders open in October with winter delivery
I would love to see a brisket done for the first cook
Thanks
You shy do a chargriller auto kamado vs kamado Joe konected joe
Those probes read from the tips. Your probe 3 and 4 are essentially reading from the same spot during the lower level readings.
I flipped it back after. Didn’t notice the wire tension moved it.
Definitely will do it again with more probes to try and confirm but for a first pass that was good
Can you link the video where you compare the kamado to the Huron offset. I have been searching your channel & can't seem to find it.
Newest has more data on direct / reverse flow - th-cam.com/video/omi5RqFyZa4/w-d-xo.html
The kamado one you mentioned is - th-cam.com/video/JkEK9KjhNcI/w-d-xo.html
If you have the bottom rack full and meat on the top rack, does the top rack drip down and ruin the bark on the bottom rack?
It didn’t when I loaded my Carlisle up but yes it does drip. Didn’t notice any damage … it’s not like a water fall
how thick is smoke north?
Smoke North doesn't even have a reverse flow pit on their website. And they're a bit more expensive than other pits in the equivalent class.
This is a pre production unit I am testing that I mentioned in the video fyi
I can‘t find the video with the anemometer testing. Anyone know which one has the full test please?
It’s in the DoJoe pizza accessory brisket video that I changed the order of release on. It’s coming out soon
DoJoe - 1200 CFM
sloRoller - 280
Offset - 6000
DoJoe - 4.3x more cfm / 320% more
Offset 5x more than DoJoe, 21x more than the sloroller
James is the baffle plate removable? And if not , it would be impossible to clean the grease or fully season the pit. Can't wait till smoke north comes out with the one on the trailer
Omg a trailer model would immediately hit my bank account if I could find a storage option.
No the baffle plate is welded in. I’ve done a cook since and most grease ran to drain plug so we will have to build up more to see how cleaning it is
@@SmokingDadBBQ Now that I think of it, the opening from a firebox should be in the bottom. Technically you should be able to clean it from both sides.
I would pull the bark off the birch. It creates an oily creosote
Good call
Are you picking up the correct temps if you are lying the probes on the hot grate? Lift them off the metal and lets see what happens
can redo with some ambient sensors
I'm a total noob,I got an offset smoker for Christmas,and I've watched a few videos on fire management and temp control, a lot of different videos, and I'm rather intimidated using it
Have you already seen my take? I show different setups on the 4 different offsets I had at one point that are backyard sized vs 500-1000 gallon ones some of the popular videos are using
You will master it in no time
@SmokingDadBBQ this is the first video I've seen of yours,I just subscribed
@@jasonpowell7305 welcome. Here is the one I mentioned th-cam.com/video/j1bloNNMv_Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=wqevQR52bTHsYKF1
...yeah, maybe mix the proteins (as if for a party) and see what happens with the even temps this unit has. Brisket, chicken ribs, pulled pork, etc.
It depends on what you plan on cooking; probably not the best choice for briskets unless you like crunchier bottom...
I want to see how bad it gets, have lots of experience with managing crunchy bottoms from decades of Kamado style cookers
Ah yes another great smoker debate. Texas BBQ offers the unique results through the thermal exchange from convection heat transfer. You can never replace or duplicate what a current of hot air transferring heat to a piece of meat creates. With the reverse flow smoker you will get both convection and radiant heat as the baffle plate becomes a heat sink. The baffle plate will allow you to keep more even temps but it also cooks slightly differently as the meat is cooked from the radiant heat below. Is there enough difference in the end result to choose one over the other??? Well, that seems very subjective. Perhaps your smell and taste buds are more sensitive than someone else's. Personally, between seasonings and sauces and mixed drinks I don't know that I would ever know the difference. I don't think you can go wrong with a traditional versus reverse flow. I think the key is the thickness of the metal allowing the entire cooker to become a heat sink which helps you recover temps and eliminate temp swings. If it's worth learning it's worth mastering. Enjoy the journey!
I am concerned about the method you used to get the temperature data. I noticed you used the meat probes instead of the air temp probes to test the four sections of the cook chamber which may not make a difference, but how they were used creates a question. The probes are laying on the metal grates not suspended into the air. Once the smoker is up to temperature all of the metal grate will be about the same temperature due to, as you put it, "conductive" heat. Suspended air temp probes would reflect the difference in the air in the cook chamber which is usually very different near or far the the heat. I have a reverse flow smoker and I do not get air temps nearly as consistent as you show. If your numbers are correct I am selling my unit and buying one like yours.
I will charge up my Meater and get ambient sensors in some potatoes or something like that and try again
Do both, at the same time!
For sure
Brisket please 🙏🏾
Thanks
Just a nit pick. It was weird you used a franklin pit in black and white when describing the first offset smoker was out in 1983. If I didnt have a pic of the 1983 smoker I personally would’ve used an image of something less recognisable
Google didn’t have anything but the form factor is similar
Thank you Smokin Dad
Cheers
Et hem... SmokinG Dad... Southerners (Southern Canada) don't drop their Gs...
@@emmgeevideo 😂 😂
did I miss the definition of what a reverse offset exactly is?
Oops. It’s where the fire box gasses aren’t allowed directly into the cook chamber. They have no choice but to travel all the way to the far side before it opens up and then are drawn back across the food
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thanks James, I see you have reviewed oklahoma joes non-reverse flow offset in the past, have you come across their reverse flow one yet? I can see one of those in the UK for 700something pounds which looks awfully cheap compared to 4k plus other offerings. Would be interesitng to hear your opinion if it is worth getting it as a first offset (given that even if it is small it should give more useful space for cooking)
Too early yet to put a claim on your 110gallon for when you sell it? :)
Hahahaha too early. But I have since done my first cook and it went about 20% faster and was darn good… so who knows, maybe with enough tests that might be an option
Free shipping from Smoke North to New Orleans and no taxes makes their pits very competitive. Definitely a purchase option
Brisket
Cheers
Smoking is an illness. We are always chasing that perfect smoke flavor.........at all costs.
Haha very true