The TRUTH About Reverse VS Standard Flow Offset Smokers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- The Reverse Flow Vs Standard Flow offset smoker debate is MISSING some cold hard facts. My ultimate offset smoker comparison test aims to inject some much needed data into an otherwise opinion heavy debate to settle which is best between a direct flow and or a reverse flow offset smoker.
Data recorded includes evaporative cooling, hot spot distribution, cook time, bark, smoke and taste differences as well as heat transfer. Testing was performed on the Smoke North Echo reverse flow, Old Country BBQ Pits G2 as well as the Smoke North Huron G2 offset smokers.
Disclosure on my potential bias... I've purchased 3 pits from Smoke North and received the Old Country G2 at no cost from Old Country BBQ pits. I have had access to a pre-production reverse flow model for 6 months to do these tests.
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You skipped the test determining which sponge tasted better.. 😂
Haha the direct flow sponge 🧽 for sure lol
I have a Meadow Creek reverse flow 120 gallon. After many years with it, I purchased six 12x15x.6" square heavy duty pizza stones from Amazon (they are cheap) and put them directly on top of the baffle plate. The steel is seven times as emissive as the ceramic material, so it's reduced the radiant energy from under the cooking area by a huge degree. So now it cooks far more like a direct flow, but has a very even temp across the entire surface - like the original promise of a reverse flow but without the side effect of dealing with the radiant from below. It's like $100 mod so it's very cheap compared to the smoker cost. If anyone else has a reverse flow and wants to cut down on that radiant effect (I didn't know how much of an impact it had when I purchased the smoker), I'd advocate trying this mod. Aluminum foil before each cook is your friend...
Thanks for sharing
I said that I was gonna try that out because all you have to do is find something to block that extra heat from the bottom when doing briskets and it should work, thanks for confirming.
Glad you posted this, I always thought about something like this when people complained about too much radiant heat, that it should be a relatively cheap fix. You could even go pizza steels too or just find a place to get some slaps of steel that would roughly fit. Should make it even more efficient too with that extra thermal mass.
Ive been waiting for this video…very nicely done! chuds brisket video on the reverse flow is the reason I stopped watching his channel. I have both style and I love them both. My wife on the other hand doesn’t know why I need two $3500 offsets but it’s hard to choose . With that said I tend to use the reverse flow more because it’s more forgiving temp wise which makes it a joy to operate and food cook a tad faster and find that the bbq is nearly as good or the same as in the traditional offset. Thank for keeping the internet honest. look foreword to the next video!
why did you stop watching his channel over one video?
@@Watson4346 Sorry I oversimplified that part…overtime I stopped likening his channel and that video irritated me. it was misleading the way he drew his conclusions. just my opinion.I still see his reels pop up, but just don’t care to watch anymore.
Very well said… agree 💯… I use a reverse flow… love it….and, yes, James excels at keeping the internet honest…. Kudos James!!
Nice pits. I own a 48x20 (main cook chamber) reverse flow. Made by kat bbq here in northern California. I don't have experience with other offsets. I can say it holds steady even temps & I love it. Works for me but as with any pit I'm sure they all run a little different but once you get to a certain quality there all pretty good I would think.
I believe you can get really good at using what you get. Side by side there are some differences, but you learn how to deal with them. Thanks for doing the test as I am considering an offset. My problem is getting good wood that has to be shipped in.
I agree with you ... and wood is expensive so i hear you on waiting until you get a supplier sorted out
So really the Reverse is a little faster but the negligible time saved vs the bark and flavor isn't worth it. You are already going to be watching the fire all day anyway, why not get the best product in the end? Off-set for the win. Also I do a very long rest. Cook all day and serve for lunch the next day.
You and Chad, and others, did the same thing. I’ve said this when you did a previous reverse flow cook and I said it in Chud’s channel in the comments to the video clips you showed. Your base assumption that you should use the exact same cooking method and temps is flawed. Therefore you get flawed results. Do you cook the exact same way and temps on your classic Kamado as you do a pellet grill? Each type of smoker deserves a suitable cooking method. On a reverse flow you should try lowering your temp. The time then is about the same and the bark and smoke flavor are more prominent. Adjust to your Persia l tastes from there. You mentioned the baffle plate but excluded it from the cooking discussion. Chud cooked too hot and fast as well based on his knowledge of direct flow and then complained about how fast and fry it was! It’s all about knowing your cooker and treating it individually.
Great comment. I have a Lang and found this to be very true. Difficult because most instructions I see are for direct flow and you're absolutely correct that they don't translate 1 to 1
Yes. When I first started looking into offset smokers Lang was one of the only folks that had a good website with videos about fire management and cleaning etc. they flat out told you that they cook differently and it would take some getting used to.
that taste test was recorded last year, today was more about the data of running the grills at the same temp to get some useful information about whats actually going on inside of them. no disagreements from me on making tweaks, in the 6 months since that was recorded i made many of the little adjustments that you mentioned but since thats the video content i recorded of them side by side included what i had available for any subjective elements but the main focus of this video is on the quantifiable
@@SmokingDadBBQ Makes sense, thanks for making these videos. Very helpful. I discovered Smoke North because of you... these smokers look incredible
Great research. Nice to see you go the extra mile to collect all this data.
I'd love to see a test of regular bbq, cooking at "higher" temperatures and bringing the meat into the high 90s degree celsius core temperature vs "sousvide" style bbq cooking, cooking at temperatures close to the desired lower core temperature (70 - 74 degrees celsius) for a prolonged amount of time. (Sousvide style might be similar to north carolina whole hog direct heat bbq).
This test would be a good one to research the time vs temperature aspect of cooking.
Keep up the great work, James!
This was some very thorough data. Excellent video as always!
Thanks again!
You've got the serious bug now. "I want a bigger smoker." Yep where we end up.
So interesting! Btw. I am warching this video in sunny Spain. We have a house in the Costa Blanca region and are on a vacation. Salud, James!
Awesome video. I'm actually building a reverse flow smoker as I watch this video.
You will get greater air flow with the reverse flow for the simple fact that the hot air flowing under the baffle is in a much narrower area as compared to a regular offset with the air coming out of fire box into the whole chamber.
Love the PitmasterX mention. Another awesome channel.
Awesome, thank you!
James you’re awesome. I’ve been strongly considering an offset smoker. Looking forward to seeing your final thoughts on everything. Thank you for all the hard work!
Coming soon! Much appreciated
But which sponge had the better bark? Seriously though, this was a good test. It seems like you and I might come to different conclusions on the same test here - your wife likes a more mild flavor profile and my girlfriend likes more smoke - so I guess just ship that direct flow down here and both girls can be happy!
if i do get the trailer dream machine it will be direct flow, but for the backyard i am leaning heavily to keeping the echo and selling the Huron
One thing that could be done to mitigate the heat from the deflector plate would be to just put some aluminum pans under there with some water. Some may argue what would do to that meat but anyone who uses a pellet grill knows this is a great way to not obliterate your meat on the underside. Also maybe using some sort of elevated grate on the reverse flow to get the meat more in the convective flow and further from the radiant heat. So many possibilities…that’s why bbq is fun! Great video and data!
Much appreciated
Why put the "right" on the left part of the screen and "left" on the right part of the screen?
i don't remember what was in my mind other than clarifying what you see vs. what was left for me vs. what you see
I own a Lang reverse flow cooker and I get a good smoke flavor when using the Mad Scientist method. He runs the first few hours of a cook at a temp of around 200 degrees with what he calls a level 2 smoke (visable white smoke exiting the stack.) He then bumps up the temp to assist in rendering the fat and burns a clean fire. I do this and am very happy with the amount of smoke I get in my meats.
Many years ago, Orson Welles did an ad campaign for Paul Masson wines with the slogan, "We will sell no wine before its time." Similarly, the top BBQ joints sell no brisket before its time, and that is why they cook them low and slow in traditional offsets. Though some will disagree, most feel that whenever cooking speed is the priority, it costs you something. And that something is darker bark and more smoke, which are generally regarded as the hallmarks of the best briskets. As for me, I'm on Team Offset, the home of top-down cooking that I feel produces the best bark, the best smoke, the best fat render, and the most consistent texture and taste from point to flat. But the reason they make so many different wines is because people have different tastes. And the same goes for BBQ. So choose your pit and get to cookin'.
Team regular flow all day long but good video.
Appreciate it
Great video 👍
Much appreciated
Do you still have your gen 2 for sale?
no sold
I love that picture of jirby with that belt on the thumbnail 😂
MVP mvp mvp 😆 I can hear the chants
I am interested in fully insulated firebox (G2) vs lignin vs heat flow. Total amount of Lignin (predominant flavoring element) and airflow must be lower relative to other offsets. Bark and smoke flavor should be impacted.
I have another cook on it coming up after this
A great presentation James. It opens up a question for me, why don't BBQ joints take advantage of the cooking speed, increased cooking area, and perhaps some saving in fuel? However I did notice some 500 gallon reverse flow trailer units being used in catering.
I think reverse flow scales down better to patio sized but I still plan to do direct flow for a 500 trailer … they all use 1000 and it works so if it isn’t broke at that scale it would just at a LOT of cost for that sized baffle
Always enjoy the info that you present in your videos. They answer a lot of my questions and curiosities with facts instead of salesman opinions. I have been trying to determine which backyard pit to upgrade my Brazos to. I’m looking at workhorse and smoke north brands and I’m interested to see which one you pick for yours.
I just recorded the decision, i decided to sell my huron on keep/buy the echo
Great video 👍
Thanks 👍
Wasn't sure what a reverse flow was and how they differed. But I think it's the placement of the chimney stack? Direct is on far side and reverse is over fire box?
yes, direct flow fire comes in one side and exits out the other.... reverse flow fire comes in and runs underneath a baffle but there is no exit on that side, the exit is on the same side as the firebox so the air is drawn back across the pit and out
EXCELLENT! Really appreciate & enjoying this video
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is gonna be good!!
Cheers
Whats the diameter of the smokers
Makes me want to get an off set smoker. Another interesting video, James . . . nothing like the scientific method to get to the bottom of things ;)
cheers
This is a test I would really like you to make. Put an amount of cotton inside each smoker/setup and then let them smoke for an hour or so. After that remove the cotton and mix it in water to compare the smoke content. This will be a fair way of measuring and comparing the smoke.
i will see if that shows anything, so much of smoke is what you choose to do setup wise to get the most out of each form factor
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thank you. Looking forward to it.
I was waiting for a taste test on the sponges. They looked tasty.
😆
Cool experiment. Can you tell me which link I should use to get the latest rib concoctions?
www.smokingdadbbq.com/blog-posts/make-your-own-rub
@@SmokingDadBBQ Thank you Sir!
Great video as always! Is that one of those Flir thermal cameras?
yes it was
I just don't like bottom heat sources when I can avoid them. I would never do a same day brisket anyway, as I'm always going to do the long hot hold and serve it the next day, so speed is less of an issue for me.
I hear you. The ir data on the bottom of both wasn’t crazy concerning … about 40f and the water temp of 3 degrees isn’t worth the criticism of reverse flow imo but if and when I buy a trailer it will be direct flow too
@@SmokingDadBBQwhy? I’m sure one of those crazy guys (big Phil, MM, LV) would love to make you a 500 gallon reverse smoker 😂
@@SmokingDadBBQ Shirley Fabrication makes some pretty big reverse flow smokers
I have zero interest in this category but it’s cool watching the breakdown and research nonetheless
The same thing is coming for kamados
Excellent.
TEAM GOLDEES FOR THE WIN 🏆
😊
What rub do you use on a sponge?
which ever costs the most lol 😂
Great video! Thanks for the data!
Glad it was helpful!
Great comparison James! I have both types myself and have had better success with my reverse flow! I’m not sure why they are not as widely accepted other than they are not the standard in bbq Mecca Texas. I understand Goldees are a proven number 1 bbq restaurant, and I’m not,……… but the design of that elbow on their smoker seems like an extremely poor design to me . With the “Solution scoop” or the elbow, or baffle plates, seems like everyone is trying to block that initial heat blast from the firebox, which is what the reverse flow plate seems to accomplish quite well! But again………….. I don’t have a successful bbq business so what do I know😂 thanks for the detailed intresting content!
I think the IR data Jeremy showed on the Goldees pit is pretty clear what’s happening is exactly what you think would be happening with a pipe
I own a goldees pit, and so far, this pit has been a beast. Last weekend, I was able to fit 8 pork shoulders in it, and the entire process was a breeze. Goldees for the win 🏆
@@JJ-hh5sf that’s awesome! Glad to hear it!
I've never cooked on reverse flow offset, but I would imagine that cleaning the grease from behind the baffle plate would be almost impossible and a safety issue. But the color and flavor you get from an offset is beyond belief in comparison to other cookers.
mine has a drain plug that gets most of the grease, the same maintenance of cleaning a flat top cooker like a black stone is a quick scrape to get anything else that didn’t drain isnt as big of a deal as you might think
@SmokingDadBBQ James, well if you can somehow reach in there to clean or even to season, then that's good.
@SmokingDadBBQ James, this would make a good reference for a future video. Maintenance for the two types of offset.