I really hope you address this comment and not just ignore it. I liked your imput on helluva boss but your part on Steven Universe was a miss. (This comment is LONG so prepare for the essay) - Do keep in mind that this isn't hate but honest crituqe. Also you not knowning about lily orchards creepish and disingenuous nature isn't a show of YOUR character but of the mis information she has spread. Please reply with any questions about Steven Universe that you may have after reading my comment. Or if you disagree with what i'm saying let me know. (The last bit of this whole comment just addressing the frustration I had with that specific part of your review.) Anyway... Heres the essay. -- 1. Steven starts off as naive and loving (Yes that's his ONE flaws) However you stating that "He never grows out of this" is one of THE MOST MISINFORMED statements I have ever heard. Stevens WHOLE JOURNEY is about him maturing and realizing that the world around him isn't as Black and White as he once did. (EVEN having MULTIPLE episodes late in the series talking about and showing how much he had matured.) Steven is the son of a REBELION. His mother. She gave up her form (Gave her life), to have Steven. Everyone around Steven tells him how great his mother is. Steven wants to one day become like her. Steven sees all the people this war has hurt and does his best to break through to them. However learns that not everyone can be saved. People can't be force to change. However no matter what Steven does his name is always connected to his mother. Steven wants to be LIKE HER but never like himself. So Steven becomes VERY SELFLESS to the point where he puts his own life in danger to save others. (Because that's what others escpet of him as roses song) QOUTE FROM STEVEN IN EXTENED INTRO: "I will fight to be everything, that everybody wants me to be when I'm grown" However throughout the show he that his mother isn't the perfect being he thought she was. Steven learns that she's a liar and in order to win a war (That she started) she has to step on MANY PEOPLE. (Spinel is the result of this but I will get to that.) The "Rose Tinted Glasses" (Pun intended - smart of the show) are coming off. Rose isn't this perfect being but also she has done some mess up things. His maturing is also paired with his identity crisis. THE SHOW ENDS with Steven finally accepting himself as STEVEN. Not his mother but STEVEN. This is me leaving out details that would make this ALREADY LONG comment even longer. But now onto the movie. -- -- 2. THE MOVIE MISINFORMATION The movie isn't the first time his problems have been adressed. Steven's flaws have been adressed since season 2 and on. Plus the problems you represent Steven having in the movie has nothing to do with his CHARACTER in the movie. Movie Steven is one that has BEEN THROUGH A JOURNEY. Now starting on a new one. *ABOUT SPINEL* In Steven Universe the movie the whole journey in that is to find his "happily ever after" after years of fighting to dismantle an empire. After he thinks he's finally found peace. But Spinel shows up and ruins that buy bringing her injector (A device that threatens the earth). Not long after the villian gets her memories reset along with a few of Steven's friends. Now Steven's jounrney is to bring back Spinel IS in the wrong. Her emotions and feelings aren't but her actions are. Steven doesn't want ANYTHING to do with Spinel after she threatened his home and almost cost lives. Steven gets through to spinel and she wants to work with steven to help stop the destruction she caused. However due to her being emotionally volitile she misunderstands when Steven obviously having his mind occupied with getting back to his "Happily ever after" does leave spinel for what he sees as more important. Calling Steven "Selfish" in the movie for thinking more about his DYING HOME rather than Spinel who CAME TO EARTH TO HURT HIM AND HIS FAMILY. (Spinel quote: "Y'know I came here to take my anger out on a bunch of strangers, but now that I know you, I wanna kill you even more") Steven "TALKING HER DOWN" in the song change (After spinel relaped due to misinformation) is about the fact that "She can make a change but it just takes time" STEVEN TALKING SPINEL DOWN was him not wanting to fight her because he can see the pain she's going through. (Pain inflicted by his MOTHER and NOT HIM.) yet she's taking it out on him. QUOTE STEVEN: "I'm paying for Stuff my mom did that had nothing to do with me" STEVEN NEVER said he wasn't gonna support spinel. He just didn't want her apart of his life. May I ask? Would you let someone who attacked you and threated your famiy become a normal part of your life just because they are mentally ill. No? right. ----- My finale thoughts. Your whole Steven Universe portion was VERY *misinformed* and out of left field. With all your points being derived from a Steven Universe hit piece (Made by a person who is known for NSFW fanfics of minors)
Oh my goodness I really wasn't well informed. I will add something to the description of the video correcting the misinformation I included. That's on me for including things without fact checking them. I haven't watched the show since probably high school which has been a few years. I'm sorry to indirectly throw shade at the show. I'll definitely circle around and probably make a video essay on that show at some point. Thank you very much for your comment and I appreciated the rose tinted glasses joke!
@@phils-a-mek6345 Ay listen, we all make mistakes. I love the points you were going for though. (Gonna check out more of your content) Steven Universe, like any other show, has it's problems so I wouldn't mind seeing stuff about you pointing them out. My goal is never to sway opinions but to have people come to their own without second hand info. PS: Also, that joke was honestly to perfect to not say it. (Pats self on back)
I definitely think that a lot of modern shows and movies have the same problem of saying "you're perfect the way you are", thus keeping characters in a loop of addressing their flaws, doing something in the moment, then going back to the status quo the next episode
Its okay if its an episodic show with little continuity but hb seems to both want continuity and doesnt want it so its hard to gauge what should and shouldnt be counted as character development
I think the shows that HB could take notes of are Adventure Time and Gravity Falls. While Gravity Falls and Adventure Time are kids' series, they both handle the episodic/ continuous story arc. The use of monsters on Adventure Time is hella creative, as well as its music.
@@digitalrecord6334I love that you criticised as an artist would. Most critics I have watched do it not from a place of care (which I believe ALL criticism should take place from) but for clout.
Yeah absolutely! I think that aspect suffers from the fanbase. Like Ozmodious was such a good villain, especially paired with Fizz, but because the fans loved them so much, they changed to good guys. I think the one expection is Stella, because despite her being liked, she has to be cartoonishly evil to excuse Stolas' actions/ morally justify them.
My take on how to fix Helluvaboss: Erase "Stolitz" form the script and demote Stolas to secondary character like he was always meant to be. At least 80% of the issues are solved with that alone.
How one dude said in comments somewhere- "It's insane,how HB could've improved if someone with authority behind writers team could actually say-No,we won't do that... At least now."
Something I’ve noticed with both HB (and HH) is that they’re consistently inconsistent, both the characters and the story. I think the show itself doesn’t know where it wants to go and has now focused on repetitive drama rather than the original plot of the series. Character development is never properly addressed and sometimes it kinda feels like each episode is completely standalone from the last. Behaviors are inconsistent and a lot of information is either told to us through external sources or we have to rely solely on theories. The series is frustrating and I wish it was easier to express criticism It’s kinda hard to find videos criticizing HB/HH that aren’t just full of hate- I was happy to find this video! Keep it up
At least with hazbin hotel, everything that is shown is what was advertised in the pilot. Yes there is some drama focus parts but it doesn't shift the plot entirely.
i dont know about you but i have seen alot of people who just wanted it to be good or those who hate it while giving educational purpose of what to NOT to do when writing stuff (such as "7 deadly sins of hazbin hotel" idk about you but i took it as an what not to do when writing fiction) and those who like the shows.
@@TheAlmightyPrime I kinda disagree? It feels like the hotel is more of a side plot rather than a main story. We don’t really have many episodes where it’s about the hotel. Besides, the pilot is years old on TH-cam and the official show is on Amazon Prime- if you’ve never watched HH before you can get really confused. I think they should’ve started from the beginning and prioritized the hotel more. They introduced too many characters that weren’t exactly necessary to the main plot- just my thoughts though
@@anapple6912 I mean I wanted it to be good, I’m a writer and a longtime fan of vivziepop and knew her way before the Hazbin Hotel pilot got released. I’ve seen a good handful of videos that offer genuine criticism but I’d love to see more. Most videos made about the show are usually people defending it or people who just want to hate. There are good videos about the show, I just wanna see more lol
I must say, you bringing up shows not having a ‘clear ending’ as an issue is so valid, and now makes me even more worried for Helluva. Vivzie has stated that she plans to have 4 seasons, 50 episodes total. However, she said in an interview that she’s finished all the writing for season 3. I don’t know if she’s actually done the writing for season 4, or just plans to have 50 episodes because it’s a nice number, not because it’s the amount of episode this show needs. However I don’t think Blitz is the only one with writing issues, and I actually think he does learn and grow. (A little.) The problem is everyone. I agree that they are probably trying to having emotional moments in each episode to keep the watcher hooked, which is hindering the story overall. In terms of Blitz growth, his first few breakdowns most certainly do not making him change. The one in episode 7 and 8 don’t affect him whatsoever. However him admitting his mistakes with Fizz does help repair their relationship, and they end up on good terms. We also get to see the payoff when he talks to Fizz in full moon and we see that they are friends (ish) again. Fizz also changes his mind and tells Ozzie to give Stolas the Asmodien Crystal to give to blitz. I think this shows growth, because Blitz apologised, explained, and repaired a relationship, along with moving the plot forward. However his apology in apology tour amounts to basically nothing (he’s moping in the next ep) and in ghostfuckers we don’t exactly see the change. He says he’ll stop trying to sleep with Millie but we don’t see any proof of this. Which leads me to the flaw I think this series has: Show don’t tell. This show is so wish washy with what things we take seriously (Blitz harassing Moxxie is funny and Stolas having power over Blitz and using demeaning nicknames is silly till it’s not. And we get no sign of that is, the show just tells us how we should be feeling.) This show suffers from telling too much and too little at the same time. We’re supposed to accept that after the events at Ozzie’s, the two of them go back to how things were before. Not so much as a word about the tragedy at the end of episode 7. I get that they’re ignoring their problems but all I needed was a moment to prove that it happened and they were both there. They didn’t show us their growth, how did we get here? At the end of seeing stars, Loona still punches her dad in the stomach and pretends not to care, when in Queen Bee, she called him dad, and suddenly at the end of season 2 she’s back to calling him dad?? What?? I’m sure there’s lots of other examples but I think I got my point across. Great video! Also I have to put this out there (not about the video but fandom): Everyone describes her work as fan fiction which I can agree with, to some degree. It seems she had characters in the start who don’t change in large capacities, and has no exact direction besides moments. I sort of hate that everyone says this though, because yes her writing.. not great. But I think people are minimising her talent. She wasn’t just lucky, people enjoyed the things she made and liked it. I think she does love her world and is trying her best, but needs some more writers to help her make her story amazing. (luckily I believe she’s hired some more writers for season 3 so let’s see if that helps.) Edit: Someone said that this show took a hard turn into romance, becoming a fan fic of itself in season 2. THAT I can agree with. We all felt cheated at the hard romantic turn this show took. Danny Motta makes a good point that by S2Ep3 the show had almost entirely stopped being a comedy, and the last mission they went one was TECHNICALLY Ep 12, but they didn’t kill anyone, so episode 5 season 2. (Which was a trash ep tbh. Also someone mentioned Viv wasn’t involved in the writing of that ep, so every ep she writes is about the romance now and not the missions.) Ep 3 season 2 was also technically a mission? But didn’t involve killing. We’ve strayed so far from the original concept of the show.
Personally I think that the show wants to tell a story but also wants to keep itself episodic (while possible, still hard if are not even sure what the show is supposed to be about or drifted to far from it's original plan) Another thing I don't see discussed often is how 2D the characters are, because lets be honest you can describe each character in a few words and it's especially noticeable in the supporting cast. That's why characters like Moxie repeat there arc over and over again and we know plenty about Milly, but also why she's mostly known as Moxies wife. I think it happened because the character were not well planed out or the show itself drifted from its original purpose (to be an episodic comedy, if I recall corectly). It's fixable if you just add more traits to the characters and also if a character overcomes a flaw they can develop a new one (for example. Sears Victoria from Hellsing, after she became a vampire she refused to drink blood and had a hard time killing gouls/other vam., because it was moray wrong in her eyes, but that made her weak, both meatily and physically, sooner or later she drank blood and became more cruel to the point were killing an army of undead was fun to her. While she still kept her kindness, you could see a noticeable shift in her personality and if the show had continued it could have been explored more and turned in to an emotional conflict). And lastly while I do not disagree that Viv has some talent and I only knew her for her animations, I believe she is more talented in animation and character design then writing.
The writers should acknowledge that what Stolas did to Stella 'is' shitty and indefensible. Her being a horrible person does not justify Stolas being horrible back to her. Because then that makes them both just horrible. And Octavia is caught in the middle and it's entirely Stolas' fault.
"Its indefensible" - I agree (although somewhat understandable since iirc, Stolas was drunk, but should have talked things through) "Do not justify being horrible back" - Disagree. Specially in a forced marriage, what else are you supposed to do if not, at least, make your stance clear and not let yourself being trampled upon. '"Both are horrible" - Agreed "Octavia is caught in the middle is entirely Stola's fault" - Ehhhh... I mean, yeah. But it is the nature of divorces. A HEALTHY diverse couple would calmly explain that nothing is Octavia's fault and try to keep the shouting at a minimum. Something that neither Stolas nor Stella were doing. Stella has since forever criticised Stolas to both his front and back. Meanwhile Stolas cheated. Not only that, but Stolas was more into rubbing it into Stella that he was getting divorced rather than focusing on the ONE THING A DECADE/CENTURY to spend time with his daughter. In conclusion, poor Octavia.
@@icarue993 Stella was forced into the marriage as well. You can stand up for yourself and stop taking the abuse (which Stolas could have since he has powers and Stella doesn't) without hitting back (which Stolas did with the cheating and breaking Stella's things after kicking her out and mocking her over the phone). The problem with the divorce is that Stolas doesn't really explain why it's happening to Octavia, she's given so little context on anything and all he gives her are empty promises. If we're meant to sympathise with Stolas and see him as "the good one" then we should criticise him when he does stoop down to Stella's level...Which he does when he cheats on her (multiple times, it wasn't just the once) and he tells the Imp Butlers to "break it if you have to" and he calls her a "B-I-T-C-H" to Octavia's face. You can't have your cake and eat it too when it comes to remaining sympathetic. Stella is an awful person but so is Stolas when we actually look at his actions critically. But I agree, poor Octavia.
@@PlanetZoidstar I agree. They are both bad people that don't see fault in each of their actions, just that Stella is more cartoony in her villany. Imagine having a civil conversation about their forced circumptances. Imagine
@@icarue993 I actually would have liked that, for Stolas to 'actually' acknowledge that he hurt Stella and that he felt good because he finally got to pay her back for the abuse she put him through. But instead Stolas acts like what he did was fully justified, to the point he doesn't even consider it cheating and just asserts that what he did never hurt her. However the show has an agenda to push (Stolitz) and for that to happen they need Stella to be as unlikable and needlessly evil as possible. I wouldn't mind Stella being pure evil if she didn't have a reasonable grievance against Stolas, but she does. She may go about it in the wrong way but there's a nuanced situation here the show refuses to acknowledge. That both Stolas and Stella aren't good people and have mutually hurt one another. Like how in Steven Universe they address that Lapis did actually lash out against Jasper for being captured and mistreated by her...And that she feels bad about it.
You can tell which episodes Brandon leads the writing on because he actually does stuff with the characters that effect them on a grounded personal level and should leave a lasting impact You can tell when Viv is at the helm of the writing room for an episode because it'll focus on just The most unnecessary stuff Both shows plots went wildly off the original concept and pilots, and while Helluva boss still stands out as *reasonably solid* I think Hazbin has been hit with the worst of it.
Tbh I think they only made millie pregnant to put her on the sidelines and or they had nothing else to do with her because she can't fight while pregnant. They just want a reason to put her on the sidelines and keep her away from the screen Also another way to fix the show would be vivzi paying her animators fairly. Like you know...not paying the favorites 1000 usd a week and paying the regular animators 35 usd for a second of animation....
@phils-a-mek6345 yea- it really makes the show worse knowing that the people aren't being paid fairly it gives me a BAD feeling in my stomach yknow- there's lots of videos about it- I saw a video with proof and stuff and I was just like...(I don't know what emotion to describe it as it's kinda a mix of disappointment sympathy for the ones who are affected by it and mad and Viv)
vivsie says that she already wrote the plot lines of the entire show, she's probably working on season 4 already, season 2 was fully written two years ago, according to her, she said that she progressed as a writer, i guess we'll find out
I already came up with an idea on reddit, thought I’d share it here. 1. Change I.M.P. to a mercenary business rather than a strictly assassination business. It gives episodes more leeway in what can happen. One episode they can be guarding someone, next episode they can be fighting a turf war. 2. Make each episode it’s own thing, while still keeping a serialized plot going on in the back. 3. Not every episode has to be about mercenary stuff. An episode of them in the office or doing stuff in hell works just fine. Reason why is because every episode being an action thing gets a bit old. 4. Revert Stolas and Blitz’s relationship back to Season 1: extremely toxic, unloving and exploitive. Stolas should be seen as a piece of crap who, as Ozzie says, “sold it all for a thrust.” 5. Remove whatever the Fizzarolli stuff was. I still don’t get it and I thought those episodes about him were stupid. 6. Take a break from the main cast to focus on other aspects of Hell. Namely the hierarchy. These guys are demons, they SHOULD be bad people. By doing this you can drive the plot into new directions. 7 (THE BIG ONE): Episode 1 of the series should begin before IMP even existed. The A plot:Blitz is just a gun-for-hire doing stuff. B plot would focus on Loona and her life growing up in Hell, before ending up in the pound. We learn about how hellhounds are the bottom of society. Literally pets or cannon fodder to many. We can learn and understand just why Loona is so moody and angry at everyone. Let’s say halfway through the episode, Blitz decides to adopt a hellhound, so he heads to the pound. The scene plays out like it did in *Seeing Stars* but from Loona’s perspective. Once adopted Blitz takes her to his house and then office. Outside his office is the M&M’s, wondering if he’s hiring. He immediately welcomes them in, gives them boxes of his stuff, and tells them to get to unpacking. Episode ends. Already sounds better, doesn’t it?
The Mammon episode was actually really good, I wouldn't remove it, but I would completely rehaul Oops because it's too plot-convenient for its own good
The show lacks a narrative thread. Either it needs to be focused on the IMP business, or fighting the oppression of the society they live in - i.e. Blitz becoming an icon for imps everywhere as shown In Mastermind. Just having Blitz and Stolas in a will they wont they relationship isn't enough to carry the show. It's poorly done and frankly boring as it just keeps repeating itself. The show implies we should care about all these characters and all these issues, but never takes the time to explain them. The show is more about making sex jokes or random gorey action scenes then exploring it's characters. Vivzie said her direct inspiration for HB was Bojack Horseman. That show would've not worked if all they did was focus on the humor and toxic-relationships but didn't show the deeper character moments to back it up. Bojack can't work if we don't know about his suffering, his shitty childhood or continued failures. The reason Blitzo doesn't fit the same way is because Blitz rarely if ever receives any consequences for his actions. The characters just say and imply stuff happens, but its like for 20 seconds of them randomly getting serious and emotional and it's like... what? You spent the past 15 minutes making constant sex jokes and slapstick humor?
The creative process really is like that most of the time - at least for me. The few things I've actually written to completion, I usually never really have an "end goal" in my head when I start, but I almost always have a very solid grasp on the beginning elements and maybe how some elements could loosely connect with others.
I totally get you. I write DND campaigns and I've started off without a solid ending, but for me at least, I try to plan or have an idea of where certain NPC's will end up so that they can best serve my story and players.
I don't agree with the SU part, to be honest, he is only 16 and probably exhausted with having to be a therapist for adults... but maybe I'm wrong. I just hate it when the Crystal Gems rely on Steven for what they lack even though he was always a kid during the series, very uncomfortable. If someone was trying to kill me, I wouldn't really want to think about their feelings either, I'd just go through the motions until they can get help from some other adults
Yeah, I really didn't like how reliate the whole show was on him, but I still absolutely see the appeal it has. I just didn't like it as much for the reason you mentioned (accepting people as who they currently are and as a result offloading trauma on children). I do think the shows themes are well intentioned and there are some lessons that make sense, but most end up in an unhealthy manner IMO
@@phils-a-mek6345 Steven Universe is a flawed show I agree - many things could've been handled better and it didn't have the best fanbase either. But I think it handled it's themes and characters better than Helluva Boss by a long-mile. Considering the concept art that came out ahead of time, I don't agree with the ending being improvised. There were too many moments of foreshadowing in season 1 for Rebecca to have done a last-season switchup to make Rose = Pink Diamond. But mileage will vary on how much you got into the plotline and how much you like the twist. I think it had decent enough set-up though. As for Steven being traumatized for the movie and future.. I think was an interesting place to go. Had he not changed and been exactly as he was at the start of the series, it would've been pretty boring.
Vivzepop is a fanfiction writer who got lucky, and therefore doesn't change because she thinks her writing has nothing wrong with it. She has cultivated a fan base that calls you a horrible person with a lick of criticism to it. Vivzepop is a horrible person who got lucky. You *cannot* change my mind.
Everyone keeps saying vivzipop is a horrible person but I genuinely can’t get anyone to tell me why she’s so bad. What exactly has she done cuz I have no idea. Also she obviously put a lot of hard work into the series. She did get lucky as well, but she put in work too.
@@salmonanimates4469probably because of the reasons Autistic Swing highlighted in her videos "why Vivziepop is a bad person". I recommend giving them a watch as they contain a lot of information.
@@salmonanimates4469 100% I do agree that she has put in a lot of hard work, but she has done some not-so-savory things online. She is a Zionist which is basically a cult and she is really bad at press management (ie. if someone critiques her work she tears them apart on twitter). She can be very toxic to people who dislike her work and has shown she doesn't take criticism well. Granted she has been getting better recently and is a sweet person in person.
I'll be real. The only reason why I still watch the show is because I've watched it since the pilot and I've already made it this far. Might as well finish it out by this point.
I think that Blitzø is better written that Stolas, because at least his actions/attitude are called out and he acknowledges them, the show isn't afraid to his wrongdoings. Stolas in the other hand, he is always given excuses for his actions, unlike Blitzø, he doesn't do anything wrong, it's always someone else's fault. Even Octavia's rejection, though it's portrayed as Stolas' fault, thanks to his constant status of victim, the fandom blames Octavia for being immature and spoiled, and even the writing puts all the blame on Stella ultimately because "this could be easily solved with a conversation" and "she was the reason Stolas neglected Octavia in Seeing Stars thus leading to his neglection". This mindset can, and I'm sure it will, be used to clean Stolas. Sacrifice Stella won't be an issues because isn't a real character and everyone hates her. Stolas can act and cry about being poor and losing his privileges and it's played for laughs, yet the show doesn't dwell more on it, just like in Full Moon were he said that his relationship with Blitzø started badly, yet doesn't fully understand how messed up is to coerce people into sexual favors in exchange to other things they will permanently need to work, or how he doesn't realize he was pushy towards Blitzø even when the laters expressed his discomfort. Making one of them look bad and calling it out while backing up everything the other does is frustrating. I don't see Blitzø as a victim of all his wrongdoings, he can be a shitty person, but that doesn't take away all the things that Stolas had made him go through. This show is so coward.
As a writer myself, I think the only reason I haven’t gone insane from the poor writing is because I HEAVILY love the music and animation of the hellaverse. But while I do watch the show with enjoyment, the issues do poke me in the gut constantly. I really respect how you talked about the show, it’s an incredibly rare respectful criticism lmao. I love the people who work on this show, and I genuinely think this show can be amazing. But it just needs more tweaking that the creators don’t see as a top priority and want to do stupid sex jokes. Character developments/arcs NEED to continue throughout the episodes, it’s what MAKES them developments. You can’t just set up important events and then completely forgot they happened the next episode. I can go on, but you said a lot of them excellently. I hope that at one point the show does get better, because again, as a writer, this can be a great show, if it just finds itself properly and sticks with what it set out to do. (I said that really messily but you get the point lmao).
You're straight spitting! I agree whole heartedly, the shows potential and lack of reaching it really pain me because of how amazing the show is everywhere but the story!
I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned how Blitz just a 1-80 character change near the end on the last 2nd episode and most of the final episode. Like this is a guy who has experience a lot of trauma and pushed everyone away, so why is he so okay with Stolas now? After all their history, which started on a one sided sex business trade, where it seemed most of times Blitz was uncomfortable or baring through it because his ‘comfortable’ life was on the line as well as his employees. And Stolas, from how he acts from the show, has been dehumanising him with pet names, often times seem as a joke banter to the creators of the show, rather then reflection to the actual characters feelings, or Stolas lack in emotional intelligence to understand how that can seem dehumanising or somewhat racist to him due to his privilege, therefore I don’t see Stolas as a hypocrite I genuinely think he’s unaware of his actions, and blitz is not the most reasonable person when he addresses it, he often shouts out his anger and Stolas just sees that as him being a asshole rather then being genuine. There’s so much toxicity and hatred and complexity to address with these characters and the show never mentions them, or wants us to forget their history so we can move or rush forward to blitz x Stolas, which in my opinion, shouldn’t even exist, the final episode of the season just feels forced, with blitz character the most, while Stolas on the other hand, is confusing on the other hand he’s reciprocating blitz kiss, and the other he doesn’t seem to reciprocate the hug, like I’m so frustrated with his character, on the off hand he’s creating bad Wattpad stories about him and blitz and then telling the audience how much he regrets and how stupid he was for not letting blitz getting killed, and I’m just sitting there, being like, I’m supposed to root for this character? 💀 he said this is all with blitz being on the job, imagine how screwed he’d be or how hurt blitz would be if he heard this, especially when blitz even if out of character knowing his amount of baggage is being very nice, too nice in my opinion. Like is the only reason why blitz is being nicer here, is because Stolas saved his life? And so Stolas was about to selfishly take his life for blitz without hesitation knowing octovia be traumatised and sword deep by his actions. Even so, I don’t believe that’s something anyone should owe you for, I would understand appreciation and slow building trust to open up and get more intimate yet done in a way it feels natural, but no, blitz is very strangly supportive, loving, sweet, it feels very out of character and Stolas just feels frustrating. And are we going to move on from the fact Stolas just kissed a random guy, and that never got explored? I feel like a new relationship would’ve been good for Stolas character, to learn to be better with someone who hasn’t got so much baggage, but no, everything feels very rushed, last minute, the jury scene was unbelievably dumb, for such powerful demons, it’s shrugged off as a ‘not my problem, I want lunch’ like I’m supposed to be emotionaly invested while the other characters telling me it’s a waste of time or being silence, like I can get it’s a privilege narrative, but Stolas, someone who’s privilege, no one questioned him, bro said ‘I am the mastermind’ and satan said ‘yeah okay, no child and privileges for you’ we don’t get an actual intellect discussion, not to mention the song felt very out of no where and don’t say much of anything. And the parrot guy, I love his design and voice actor and finesse, but he just contradicts Stolas whole ‘I had no friends’ background.
Thank you for making this! This popped up in my recommended just now, and I'm glad it did. This kind of civil discourse is what not only the fans, but also the CREATORS themselves need to engage in more frequently. I would love to hear the creators' own organized thoughts on HB and the constructive criticism they've received. I love this show to death, but I ascribe a lot of that to it being a vicarious emotional outlet for me during COVID, as it gave me promises and hints of an amazing story while the first few episodes were being developed during that crazy time. It's frustrating to see such a story not coming to fruition after all of this time, and I'm worried that season 3 will be more of the same, with maybe one or two major moments of genuine character development if the writers get lucky on their current course. Keep up the good vibes, everyone!
I really like Fizz, what ticks me off about him is that Mammon and Fizz were in the same exact situation as Stolas and Blitz and resolved their conflict in 2 episodes perfectly fine while it's taken Stolas and Blitz 2 seasons and counting to get their crap together.
@phils-a-mek6345 I agree. I miss when the show was actually about the assassination business like it was supposed to be. I'm tired of this stupid toxic yaoi soap opera.
HB was not advetised as a romance so that's why the audience feels justifiable betrayed. Only in episode 7 we actually start to get romance plot. Viv once twetted something in the lines of: "what's wrong if a show becomes a fanfic of itself?". We got the answear: braindead plot animated well. I expected it to be bad, I did not expect “cheating is okay if it’s gay and and it’s bad when a woman does it”. Also wow, how ironic that the most underdeveloped female character that Vivziepop insists has a lot of hidden depth is given a pregnancy plot. How much do you want to bet she’s going to be completely sidelined in the next season. ALSO, sorry yall but I don’t think Stolas is actually going to apologize for being a bad father to Octavia. Did we forget what happened when Ozzie called out Stolas in “Ozzie’s” and Blitzo chewed out Stolas in “Full Moon”, the former didn’t even keep his energy and Blitzo was so thoroughly punished that it felt like he was being abused into falling for Stolas. In fact that’s not even the first time she defensively said there’s nothing wrong with her writing feeling like fanfiction. She even called it homophobic when people used fanfiction as deragatory bc some queer people like it…. That’s like saying it’s homophobic to shit on Big Mouth because it has some queer fans. This is a video from Flazefire about HB and he also has one of HH, they are very informative, I recommend watching them. th-cam.com/video/7tehtH-rg94/w-d-xo.html&si=GcmeFlppkDFsIJSJ The tweets are at 26:00 mark and they go for a minute or so. One of the dates is december 1st 2024. I observed that while in Avengers there was only one way to end well, in every Vivziepop show there is only one way to end wrong and the writers bend over backwards to achive it. Example s2 e9 the fallout would have been avoided if eighter one of them did some gesture different and s2 e11 where no one in the court has a brain. In other shower thoughts, with season 2 ending we can finally say that Unhappy campers WAS THE MILLIE EPISODE ALL ALONG, yes, not Ghost fu- which btw was written by Brandon. Let that sink in...how much Viv cares about Millie. It just struck me: ep 2, 5 and 6 are pointless, ep 4 ruined Striker, ep 11 is the worst written trial in fiction (THE TRIAL FOR STOLAS, NOT BLITZ, THEY CAN'T BE FOR THE SAME CRIMES!!!) and ep 12 excuses Stolas further. I won't defend these remarks, however I left out the true worst episode of the entire show, the one every new watcher should skip because the wrtiitng is so bad that retcons the entire show before and even worse, after it. This episode should have his own medal alongside other boring episodes because it should not exist. Ladies and gentlemen, the worst episode of the entire show, because it spoils everithing else without ever being referenced once after its air, is...THE CIRCUS...
Yeah, making Blitz and Stolas childhood friends and Blitz be Stolas’ first love really fucked up the dynamic that had been set up in season 1 I liked Stolas better as a character when he was a problematic person, a flawed character who had a bad power dynamic in his relationship with Blitz. He was more interesting and had more potential in the story then. Like, if you want to make Blitz and Stolas have that childhood connection, make it less special for child Stolas, and make it that Blitz remembers that, but Stolas doesn’t (bc the way he was written in the beginning of the show suggested that he was privileged and spoiled enough that he wouldn’t have thought much of a lower class demon brought in to entertain him) Make hell have more explicitly problematic systems of oppression, rather than just giving lip service to it, like when Satan says imps were made to be obedient. Show us the ways imps are treated poorly by higher class demons instead of just hand-waving in the direction of it. Like maybe circus imps are regularly brought in to entertain royal children as jesters, and that’s how Blitz was familiar with the layout of the palace. Maybe Stolas- in keeping with his early series characterization- after discovering Blitz sneaking around the palace as an adult, hits on him and Blitz plays into it to get closer to the book. Make it so that Stolas’ behavior in the pilot and the first episode of the show make sense in context with Blitz and Stolas’ first sexual encounter. Having it be this sentimental “the one who wants me is my first friend” doesn’t follow, even with the joke that Stolas thinks Blitz wants to dirty talk and commits way too hard to that, and /thats/ why he acts the way he does in the pilot and first episode. Vivzie seems to be scared of making her characters actually flawed. Like she wrote Stolas the way she did in the pilot for the dark humor of it and also bc Stolas was initially gonna be an antagonist, but then she wanted to ship him and Blitz, so somewhere along the way she just decided that they can’t have this problematic beginning to their relationship, with the power imbalance, so it has to be something more sensitive and sentimental.
Stolas and Blitz being childhood friends don't even make sense since Stolas was supposed to be very old like few thousand years in HB he is born in modern era which is weird
@@danaugg9183 oh yeah that too. There is something that one one knows, even Viv hreself: how much does she take from her source materials? To HH its the Bible ant to HB its The lessor key of Solomon. So all the ancient demons Viv adapts look like were born at least in the last 200 years (Bee's lava lamp body and hair, do I need to explain more?). So only Stolas, his brother in law and the parrot guy are the only one that got age nerfed, but they keep their immortality? W T F is this arbitrary fanfic logic?
From what I've heard, the show Bojack Horseman is a big inspiration for Helluva Boss, & in BH, the main character does a TON of terrible things, swears he'll change, but never does, often doing everything with selfish intentions; which is exactly how Blitz is written in HB. We're supposed to care about this terrible person, & while it works very well in Bojack Horseman, it doesn't work as well, if even at all, in Helluva Boss. I personally haven't been able to identify *why* it works so well in BH, but falls flat in HB, but it's obvious Helluva Boss is missing the secret sauce. I know there's some great BH video essays on here that discuss how they writers made it work, I just can't remember the points made myself!
Yeah I agree, I think BH is able to work because the supporting cast is what changes as a result of his actions, but in Helluva boss blitz isn't the only one not changing which kinda shoots that idea in the foot
To me it is because there's no payoff or acknowledgement to Blitz' flaws. His trauma kind of just exists, and usually gets used as a way to have the viewers sympathize with Blitz. "He's damaged but it's ok!" I'm sorry but no. People are gonna get tired of that writing eventually and at this point they have already! BH tells you when Bojack is wrong. HB tells you why you should feel sorry for an asshole
The biggest thing the characters sit down and ask What did I do wrong? They ask them selves or their associates.(or weird sinners that keep popping up) targets.
I mean say what you want but a major aspect of Helluva boss fans saying they'll jump off a bridge if Stolas divorces or if it became Fizzblitz and Stolaggo / Stolas x BTB was insane. Like yall have a hate boner for a fictional character not liking a ficitional psycho who is himself a aborted main pilot antagonist who themselves have the fandom going "OMG, i flipping hate stolas, what a predator" "omg fr" "btw here is my stolas femboy hooters with buldge fanart as Blitzo lovingly shoots anyone else who tries to date that PSYCHO PIECE OF @!##!" next to "here is my stolas fic and "Stolas is ran over by a car while I inherit all their money as they're shanked in prison and i inherit 25 million dollars fanfic and HE STILL OPPRESSES ME" fic. Like the fandom really reads like 14-18 year old mental unwellness fic at times. People say that Stolas losing everythign he has, becoming a commoner, and having his daughter disown him is bad writing when it's literally what they literally asked for months ago when they asked for stolas to become a commoner, have his daughter disown him, and live life without money due to classism or whatever. It's a fictional show and no lie the s0/s1 stolas relationship has so many "50 shades of gray should have the police called on them, not be a teenager's fantasy" kinda angles to it. But like so much Stolitz fic feels like "this tall rich prince who has so much money and is top 10% oppresses me and i want them to be miserable and love only me as i throw them away repeatably and don't care if they live or die" Antics. It's like BRUH. do you guys just want the fictional character to be put in a ficitional sex offender registry or is it like a twilight / 50 shades of gray thing where you don't want the character 'arrested', you want to like have a fanfic character that fulfills your fantasy be oppressing you so one doesn't look like a questionable person for enjoying it, or is it a legit hate beam? Cause you all give off these mixed signals of wanting Stolas to die alone and never find love, followed by screaming when he finds love, to wanting him to lose everything, to screaming when he loses everything, and now the scales at murder for some fictional character who supposedly can't date anyone else. It's super bipolar.
@@Notyouraveragename Yeah, like with any fanbase that balloons to this size there are droves of people who write fanfic and can't land on a single opinion of a character. I'm a fan of him as a character, but not a fan of his character. I think killing him could be valuable to the story, albeit, it would make me sad.
@Notyouraveragename interesting, not really in the fandom so idk what goes on in there. just a causal who misses the horny bird man who liked global warming.
after how much I hear "swears bad" hearing actual genuine well thought out critisim such as this feels like a nice breath of fresh air. I think that Blitzø is starting to actually improve and get better, even if it's only in the ladt few episodes so far, the series did keep bashing Blitzø for his behaviour especially in Apology Tour (which felt like an uneeded episode in general as it just strung out a break up that was done perfectly in the end of the episode before) sorta made Blitzø feel incapable of change, like even after knowing he's the problem and wanting not to be, he still was the asshole, as that's what he thought of himself, the moment when he did actually start to change however was after Millie's heart to heart in Ghostfuckers, that didn't just remind him he was a problem but actually reminded him of his strengths as a character which felt much needed, and since then he sacrificed himself so Satan would spare his team, actually started trying to be a good partner to Stolas, and doing so much in Sinsmas just to help him out, even refusing a hit similar to what he did in Murder Family, is pretty late along the series but I am starting to see development, even in a lot of the other characters as well, I love how you can how Moxxie's gotten stronger in his rematch against Striker and Fizz's overly relatable arc in Mammon's Magnificent Musical, even Loona's starting to do just a tiny bit better from when she just didn't want to be involved in anything, not yet Stolas tho, he still seems to be at the point of realising he was the problem prob rambled on a bit with this commet but feels nice to disscuss on of my fav shows
@@rysterproductionsdoinyurmom Thank you for your thoughts! I do agree that he has improved a little in the most recent episodes, but he has in previous ones and reverted. I hope this time his changes stick.
Honestly yeah, it's a fictional show and one thing i feel like that Bojack did well is. Bojack was a product of abuse and so was Beatrice in lore, but they felt like human, even warts and all. Characters acted like real life human beings vs puppets or sockpuppets to speak out author desires, and i've heard some people call out Octavia as 'poorly written' for not feeling like she has a stable relationship with her dad or judging Stolas for attempted picking 'death by cop' rather than choosing to give her a stable life. The show is made for viewership and a lot of attention is focused down on Stolitz as the main character relationship vs Moxxie and Millie and Asmodeus/Fizz or Blitzfizz / Stolago. Because as some people said. "What would be the point of watching a 4 year built up ship blow apart in a explosive divorce?" But recapping the video all in once, you do see this repeating pattern where again and again, S1 to S2, Stolas creeps on Blitz, Blitz rejects him, Stolas takes distance, Blitz meets him, they meet up again, then Stolas does something that makes Blitz explode. Blitz lashes out, their relationship falls apart. then they're back together the next few months without explaination, and it's repeated twice like a cuckoo clock. I do kinda agree that it does feel like things often become way too heated in the fandom, maybe i've been a participant but i feel like there might be some problems with Blitz both kinda being a comedic psychopath + money robber but also portrayed as a poor victim who deserves unconditional love, leeway and forgiveness, while also running over orphan children because his coffee order was late. He's fun to watch but he's woobified a lot more than A invader zim who we know is meant to be cartoonishly evil lol. But blitz is more on the intentionally psycho comedy /dark humor branch. It's not bad antics. But i worry about the kids who don't seperate cartoon vs fantasy. On one hand it's a fictional comedy, but on the other hand, it kinda attempts to normalize / woobify potentially highly dysfunctional / problematic relationships. Many parts of Stolitz aren't built on clear consent vs M&M and Asmofizz and the show also dips it's toes in showing how Blitz is bubbly around Fizzblitz and professional (for show standards) around keeping fizz away from Mammon. But he detonates like a bomb and Octavia is technically kinda a casualty of that. I get people roasting her for not having patience for Stolitz, asking them "Why were we never enough? why did you hate her more than you loved us, why did you choose him over me?" But people roast like Stolas, a fictional character's whole purpose is to like, give money and !@# to another fictional character, and what they say vs how they act when they wanted a divorce and Stolas met BTB imp and the shippers exploded is a real head scratcher to me. It's a fictional show and fiction != reality, and we all have our own irl stuff to take care of. But it does seem like many fans, both younger or old, project themselves into the characters, sometimes mildly, and sometimes extremely dramaifficly. I've seen claimed 13-18s alledgedly threaten to !@# other users over Loona X OC ships in discord servers or creepy comments like "i wish i could adopt loona at 17 so i could 'help' her as my 'adopted daughter " with galleries of nsfw reposts of them. It's a fun series and it's clearly not meant for morals, but i kinda worry about the kids who can't seperate fiction from reality or copycat it. When violence/no consent is sugarcoated, a adult might go "oh, it's a fictional series set in hell", a kid who doesn't seperate it might fetishize or go 'screaming means they're enjoying it", or potentially land themselves in prison trying to 'be kool', and i just don't know. I'm not a moral puritan about most stuff and i remember halo being demonized as "killing aliens will make kids kill people!" but i've flat out seen some kids say they wanted to shoot their parents/teachers after helluva boss.. for wanting them to do homework, study for college.. or go to school... And idek what you do here.
I feel like Blitz is changing. He connected back with Fizz and had a general one and one with him. His trying reconnect with Barbie. Learned that what his done was wrong. And his trying to be in an actual relationship. Also I believe Vivz knows how the shows ends. She said that show will have about 50 episodes. Overall my main problems with Helluva boss is some of the dialog, jokes, how their painting Stolas as this good character that has done nothing wrong, and how some characters rise, fall, rise again, then fall again, but expect that I love everything else about the show I love, the animation, the characters, and the songs. Even tho I disagree with that part of the video, I’m just that there’s a video that is just bashing of the show for no good reason, and sees that it’s not a bad show but it’s still have it flaws.
That's what I'm more so trying to get at. I really love the show and the talent behind it. It's just a shame the way that they do dialogue. My problem with blitz is that he has moments like that and then falls back into an undeveloped version of himself. He has made progress in a few relationships, but not as a character if that makes sense.
His destructive behavior felt very present in Ghost F***ers to me, and I didn't see much room for it in the most recent two episodes. It definitely hasn't been happening as much, but idk, I haven't seen it get addressed more seriously yet.
@ : Oh don’t get it twisted. His self destructive behavior was very clear in Ghost Fuckers. But after that episode he stopped. And another thing, change isn’t something that happens over night.
Have the characters make progress towards their goals and have a plan for character development. Helluva boss feels stagnant because the characters keep being reset after every huge emotional beat.
@@Catwhumanears That's it?! That's nothing, no actual elaboration, just a vague statement about character progression or something. Like, not even an example at how this is supposed to look like?
This was great! I’m thankful that you provided a nuanced take on the series that I pretty much agree with! So many people in the fandom either defend it with their lives or become way too callous with the hate towards the show. One thing though is that I do think Blitz’s repeated breakdowns kind of make sense in the show for his character just based on my experience with real people. I can think of one ex-friend that would have lots of random moments of self awareness that he’d discuss with me, only to return to lashing out at random points. It kind of makes me feel that his journey to being a healthy person is going to have these kinds of bumps along the way, but there will be some slow progression throughout this. Just not linear! However it’s characters like Octavia that I’m really worried about. Two of her writers (Viv and Brandon) have admitted that they don’t like writing her, and it’s clear from most of her appearances that she isn’t cared for as a character. It’s always the “I hate my dad to aww he makes mistakes and that’s ok” arc which keeps repeating throughout the series until the finale. I really hope they do something with her character beyond just forgiving Stolas.
Me too. She has potential to call Stolas out for his poor behavior and choices. I love the character but he has made very poor decisions and not seen an repercussion for it up until the Finale.
This show kills me the most because of how long I’ve followed Viv and her work. She writes as she goes and she picks favorites of her characters and bends the plot to serve whichever one she likes the most at the moment. The longer this show goes on the more it feels like a hell specifically made for Blitzø because the showrunner decided he’s always wrong, even when he grows, changes and becomes better. It doesn’t make sense. He does bad things towards the beginning of an episode just to justify breaking down at the end. He behaves in a sacrificial way in one episode and then the show pretends it never happened in the next. Meanwhile Stolas becomes worse and worse and is lifted up by the narrative.
Helluva Boss definately feels like its more written for straight audiences unlike Steven Universe which feels like it was more written to actually represent the target queer audience/normalize queerness to the audience. Helluva Boss also mainly has its production value in terms of animation because of hiring a bunch of new and passionate freelance animators that are fans of the series and than those freelancers immediatly leave because of the poor working conditions at the studio.
So I just wanna say with the Steven universe thing Steven owes spinel NOTHING. She was hurt by his mother and decided to take that out on a 16 year old child. He had no responsibility to Spinel and shouldn’t be required to support her because of his mother’s action that’s literally spelled out in future. Like he talks other cause his powers are fucked and she’s been exhausting him and now he’s expected to be her number one support system and best friend? Like the way you spoke about it to me is putting a lot of responsibility on a child
Not at all, Steven is still a child, but my point was that he chose to resolve the conflict by saying he would support her, but then he turns around once her problems have been "resolved" and abandons her again (the trauma that started this in the first place). Her trauma wasn't his fault, but his faulty promises were.
@ but it’s like she was trying to kill him. He wasn’t just abandoning her. He was trying to focus on making sure the earth didn’t die and she was like no we need to focus on my emotional state right now. That’s also not his problem. In my opinion that’s holding Steven to a standard that is unfair. Like she was actively trying to hurt him and his friends. It makes sense that his first immediate thought after talking her down from killing him isn’t let’s make sure she has a good support system and is let’s make sure she doesn’t kill everyone.
I assume someone out there might've seen my comments before and are tired of me bringing it up, but I'm gonna mention it anyway. There's this fantastic Helluva Boss fanfiction that you need to read (it's technically also Hellaverse since it slightly crosses over with Hazbin Hotel and the cast of that show play a bigger role later in the story), called "Shadows Over Hell." It's on Archive of our Own and is both a friendship drama between Loona and Octavia and a lovecraftian horror epic filled with references, homages and elements from the Cthulhu Mythos (I'll get more into this in a minute, but this was coincidentally written long before "Seeing Stars" came out where Azathoth is seemingly an actual, canonical entity which raises a lot of questions). Despite this being about Loona and Octavia, no one gets sidelined in favor of those two like what the show does with Stolitz, everyone gets an arc and plays actual roles in the story. The author was very passionately vocal online about things like not seeing more of Loona and Octavia being friends, Octavia being reduced to her daddy issues when there's so much more that can be done with her and how Stella has been reduced to a one-dimensional antagonist. The fanfic explores all of that. Ironically, Octavia doesn't have daddy issues in this, but instead has conflicts both with Stella who's overly controlling, along with the expectations of being a Goetian princess and not having any freedom to do what she wants and be happy. Octavia has more going on, we see more of her personality, her interests, just so much more than the actual show. Stella eventually becomes a more sympathetic and complex character later on where we learn her backstory, what she's like on the inside and she even tries to improve herself as a person later on (she even gets an awesome moment at the end that truly shows how much she loves her daughter, how much she's grown and essentially saves everyone). The author intentionally wanted to make the relationship between Stolas and Stella realistic and reveals that despite it being an arranged marriage, the two really did love each other at one point and they still equally love Octavia as their daughter and they eventually made peace together by the end. Because of the time that it was written, the story has some outdated elements and some creative liberties with Hellaverse (Bee isn't Vortex's girlfriend, Lucifer is a very sadistic character as opposed to the adorkable rubber duck loving dad we know him today, hellhounds breathe fire for some reason, Charlie Morningstar is Octavia's penpal/cousin and the only person in Octavia's life before she met Loona who was genuinely kind to her and helped her through rough times [she was also the only person Octavia was happy to see at her birthday party], Vaggie is still a moth sinner and possibly others). Coincidentally, the story ends on Christmas (though instead of Sinsmas, since that wasn't a thing yet, they celebrate Krampusnacht, a real European holiday that revolves around Krampus. Of course, Krampus is just as jolly as Santa Claus and is able to grant wishes [though nothing like the movie obviously]), with M&M revealing to everyone that Millie is pregnant, but it's treated as a heartwarming moment. Though the story ends on a bittersweet note, it's much more optimistic, heartwarming and hopeful than Sinsmas ever was (I really needed to go back to that penultimate Krampusnacht chapter after Sinsmas left me crying). Ironically, only days after the fanfiction was complete, Beelzebub's debut episode came out, and the author later on made a soft, thematic prequel that focuses on Beelzebub (the author _loves_ Bee and is one of their new favorite characters). Though, don't let my comment fool you into thinking the story is all sunshine and rainbows or that the drama extends to slice of life stuff. It's also a horror story that gets pretty intense and horrific, especially once the horror plot truly kicks in (the author isn't even afraid to throw in horror scenes out of nowhere in an otherwise heartwarming or uneventful chapter). I'm not kidding when I say that it gets intense and the author truly understands Lovecraft's writing and that doesn't just extend to references and fanservice.
This whole thing sounds hella interesting 👀 I'd be down to check it out... if it weren't for the horror stuff and bittersweet ending you mentioned. I already got rather fucked up by Threadcutter, the Hollow Knight fanfic, idk if I wanna take my chances with this one
The biggest problem that comes out of not knowing your ending is when you change course and ignore the fact you changed course. You can't just ignore what you previously wrote, which is what they're trying to do with Stolas
Which makes me wonder how the fuck it was written. Usually you write your first draft, smack that down on the paper, then make your outline of big story points. But it seems like this show is going off of a first draft. Some shows do get written as they air, but this show has no guidance.
From what I’ve seen in interviews with Viv, Helluva Boss is written WELL in advance. I may be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure she said “We were working on season 2 when season 1 started airing.” And I’m pretty sure she also said she knows how the show is going to end, but I don’t remember that for sure, so I’m not putting any quotes. My guess is the writers are well in to writing season 3, hell, they may have even started animating. So realistically, the only way this show can be “fixed” is if they already started doing so. I just started watching Helluva Boss after the release of Mastermind so please - don’t eat me alive
I'm gonna eat you alive. I haven't heard that interview, so my assuming that is the case is more than likely wrong. Despite their planning though I do feel like they are writing the episodes without much thought for progression in mind.
@@phils-a-mek6345 I definitely agree with that. I feel like most of season 2 was focused on characters back stories rather than making any real progression towards anything. and that's definitely what Blitz's breakdowns felt like, especially the one is Ghostf**kers. And I think that's one of the show's biggest issues, too much backstory, not enough progression
The point of the half-hearted apologies in Apology Tour is twofold: first it lets Blitz work his way up to the one apology that really matters to him, the one to Stolas, and second it’s a fairly petty take that showing Stolas that he can so apologize by apologizing to everyone. That Stolas doesn’t accept the apology shows both that Stolas still needs to get over hurt feelings and that just because you try something doesn’t mean you succeed, but it does help patch things up with Verosika. To me the problem with these last few episodes is Blitz and Stolas feelings changed way too quickly. One episode we’ve got a one sided affair where Stolas wants to bone Blitz but Blitz wants nothing to do with Stolas and then suddenly we have Blitz chasing Stolas and Stolas wanting nothing to do with Blitz. It just doesn’t feel organic.
Oh hey a video above a Vivzi show that's actually reasonable that's incredibly rare. I get the complaints HB gets and I can't blame people for not liking it (ya know if they aren't a dick about it). I just enjoy the show because I like the characters and find comfort in animated shows with heavy lgbtqa+ characters/themes. It's ultimately a comfort show I hyperfixate on because I am internationally still an edgy, quirky queer teen even though I'm 25
I don’t know if you’re going to read this but I disagree that an unplanned ending cannot be good. (Also as a former Steven universe fan, while I may have mixed opinions on the show I don’t agree with your assessment of Steven’s character) Take adventure time which has numerous changes and retcons throughout its seasons. However its finale is incredibly satisfying. But even after the finale multiple continuations have come out to critical acclaim. Gravity Falls creator Alex Hirsh has been open in that the series finale wasn’t planned out. Bill was just a joke between the animators before being added into season 1. Even after the first season they weren’t sure if they wanted him to be the big bad. Even your example of Mha, its creator has confirmed that his original vision for the story was changed as he worked on it over the years. I think your segments on Helluva boss are good. I definitely agree it suffers from major flaws when it comes to the writing.(personally the tone issues stand out to me)
You're 100% right. I was really misinformed with my comments on SU. I pinned a comment of someone correcting me, they did a great job explaining the situation that I was unaware of. It is also wrong of me to imply the blanket statement of "an unplanned ending is always bad" because absolutely there are cases where the story works out because of that. I do however think there is more risk in losing your story if you don't have one in mind. A great example of what I'm talking about is the FNAF lore.
@@phils-a-mek6345 Hey thanks for responding! I definitely agree with you that a bad unplanned ending can be pretty obvious! I really did enjoy your video, I especially like the tone of it, a lot of other reviews are incredibly harsh on the series and its creator and while I don’t exactly have a great opinion on her, they often feel very overblown and downright awful to the creator. I have major problems with helluva boss and I’m glad you put out this review. It’s an incredibly fair take on the series and I’m grateful you took the time to read my comment.
While i dont like the show i think anyone is valid for disliking it, aslong as they arent being bigoted or homophobic as an excuse for its issues and not the writing being somewhat poorly managed. To give some of my bigger critique i just cant enjoy the tone probpems the show has, like hazbin hotel they will show abuse and trauma being awful things people shouldnt have to deal with or they deserve sympathy for going through- while also making r*pe jokes with people like pensious, its awful because the care isnt being applied to everyone, if they are going to treat abuse and trauma as serious topics they want to explore they cant take a step back and allow another less important character to have those same things happen to them and not get any screentime or care put into that joke. A lot of the characters are 1 dimensional, i wish i could like stella but shes so unironically just a bitch that she has no personality or character to care about, shes dealt with stolas cheating on her but nobody cares because shes just an angry owl lady we are meant to hate because they dont give attention to the fact she has valid reasons to hate her husband, theres so many plot threads they could take if stella was angry at stolas not because he cheated but because he did it with a lower class making it a class issue, she could hate stolas because he cheated in general, she could hate stolas because of the fact it was an arranged marriage and maybe she is bi leaning towards the lesbian side, i love stella and stolas as an idea for a story but stolas just becomes the sad man that needs a hug and stella just wants him dead because shes evil, its boring and so run of the mill and its the best example i can think of that shows how flat the characters have been and will continue to be (P.s. good video, i didnt want to bring in the drama with vivzie herself but i will make a note that i am against supporting her financially, anybody who took the time to read this if you like the show please support fan merch instead of vivzie directly)
The fizz parts don't count because that's past mistakes that he is actively trying to fix in the present not him just now figuring out that he's does bad things Same with the sister picture Isn't bad at all but they should have been changed immediately after those scenes towards those specific problems This part when he says he wants to change of the party was too much tho Like that is extremely repetitive
I mean it's a old horse trope to beat over Helluva boss, animation takes years, and even as a critic, it is fair to note that it's a beautiful indie animation with a psycho fanbase and very psycho bojack level fan mentalities. I never noticed how many times the characters development seemed to 'reset' month to month when watching it all in a month. But having you point it out, how it took years just to repeat itself is definitely a major point in the show. It's just fiction but every small moment from Bee going "Hey, your father is intentionally getting drunk and making messes on purpose to get attention and intentionally self sabotaguing, are you uh, sure you shouldn't check on him?" And the fanbase going "STOLAS IS A BABY, OMG WHAT A BABY, I WANT HIM DEAD/SHANKED losing ALL HE has, he should never date anyone again, he's a S-X offender and i want him arrested and jailed and the show is ruined UNLESS he gets killed, but don't let him divorce or them DATE ANYONE ELSE or i wil jump off a bridge. WHO wants to watch a show the main ship ends in divorce if it's FizzBlitz or Stolago / Stol/BTB?" Like the show does feel like it responds, i criticized blitz's unhealthy development, but all that about hurting everyone then being a normal person not trying to make his problems about him when Stolas was Suicidal. The show is beautifully animated, but it has like 14-19 year old warrior cats attempting to kill each other over the 1 girl / 1 boy cat drama. There's a crap ton of drama, the fandom calls characters sex offenders while drawing them in femboy hooters gears fantasizing about shooting anyone who tries to visit them, while drawing them in basically 'fantasy femboy' gear. I flat out tried to tell the story to a friend once and they literally went. "What the hell is this, a true crimes documentary on a psychopath's wish fantasy?" to trying to go "well there's this fandom about two demons who love each other but express it via abuse and try to kill each other, but one demon says they hate the other, but the fandom says it's love", and idk. The show is just a hot potato of tumblr writing and a tumblr overaged/underaged fanbase. I do feel like the writing could be better, but it's also much easier to say if a Beef wellington is under/overcooked inside than make a better one. Helluva boss has beautiful characters, beautiful animations and scenes, especially for indie animation, but the writing is often like murder imps crying that someone they used or emotionally and physically neglected and nearly drove to self harm might want distance or feel bad when they wanted them tortured because ???. And... people still complain when literally handed what they asked for, because it was blitz critical instead of blitz arresting stolas for... him believing a lie he used to rob him, while stolas was heavily drunk, intoxicated, rejected, pushed away, and nearly killed, and lost everything in his life. Because he looked at a menu?? And/or used pet names a couple times? Or classism in, stolas cared about him vs cutting off Blitz employments, declaring he'd give himself a 1% bigger yacht, then deporting Millie and Moxxie's family to announce 2% higher shareholder bonuses?
while i dont agree with the su opinion (NOT to say it isnt flawed it probably is but i am noatalgia blind) but the sentiment about helluva echoes alot of how i feel about it! I hadnt even realized how kny times blitzo had that sad music emotional beat
I haven't watched the full video yet (I'm almost half way into the video) but the frustrating part of the critiques/criticisms about helluva boss (that are completely valid) that no one is really considering is that the script for season 2 has been finished for a few years now. I don't really expect the fans / youtubers to know the animation pipeline but does anyone actually remembers the trailer for season 2 where episode 4 was literally still an animatic? And how long that take to come out? I think that's crucial part that's missing with critique videos on HB . Realistically, expecting immediate changes like tonal whiplash or pacing can't be fixed cause the team was still working on putting out episodes. The best bet is to wait till season 3, if not you can gladly drop the show which is fair
I totally don't expect changes until either season 4 or 5 because 3 is already in production. I don't mean to sound impatient with these potential changes, I'm sorry if my video comes off that way! The animation pipeline is something I should've mentioned, but I personally think that the animation is without flaw, it just for me, comes down to the writing and dialogue
@phils-a-mek6345 Oh no I didn't think you were mean at all, cause of my algorithm I would see HB critiques more often so I just felt that the topic that isn't really mentioned much so I felt people were expecting changes by the next episode which again isn't fair. Personally as far as critiques I want more engaging dialogue, better pacing and clever sex jokes
Well, I think it’s also worth considering that Vivziepop often dismisses her critics as haters. I don’t think she’ll listen to criticism, because there’s still that huge community of people that are eating this up, despite how wattpad it is. She’s got people enabling her faulty writing decisions, and those people will encourage her that any criticism is invalid.
@@spycenrice8108 I see what you're saying but you gotta remember as a creative you can only allow so much criticisms that it doesn't change the vision of "her" show. Yeah HB has tropes a good amount of them I can agree, she can def tone them down and that's the discernment she has to figure out which will be interesting to see in season 3 and onwards.
@@phils-a-mek6345this is either someone being genuine or another helluva hardcore fan being overly sarcastic because they hear the criticism and not the in depth explanation of the criticism and get offended.
To my very uneducated opinion based on the criticism of other media the biggest problem with helleva boss that the writers refused to kill their darlings, there are moments that are great... In a different context, but in this one it feels like misplaced
I one-hundred percent agree with you on the gap When I was writing a script for a video (yes Im up and coming on this platform) My whole essay or (video) was based around the fact that Helluva Boss had so much potential through the pilot and a couple episodes in season 1, but it felt wasted as it left the casual, mainstream viewer aside. The reason I feel this way is because it felt as if there was a drastic change in the show, it chose to appeal to the "die-hard" fans of the show and leave behind the mainstream casual viewers, and you will see this with the number of views constantly descending. If I had one thing to say at the start of the show, I'd say: Potential If I had to say one thing after 2 seasons of this, I'd say: Wasted Potential
@phils-a-mek6345 I'm trying to get it out by the end of the month, as long as all goes well that is. Lol, I'll check back with ya on anything. And I'm gonna keep watching your stellar vids in the process
I like your video because is very reasonable criticism. Most of the fans who enjoy this show a lot are actually conscious of some of the flaws the writing has. Some people however are overcritical of it, to a point that is very divisive and pointless as you say. The only thing I disagree in your analysis is the development of Blitz. I think this is what the show does best. The point with Blitz is that even when he is sad crying in the couch there is nothing that says that he will work to change. It is until Apology Tour that he admits he has this issue, expecting him to change after Truth Seekers is not what the writers intended (WELL, I THINK...). My opinion is that Blitzo´s development timeline is this one: S1E6: The intention of the episode Truth Seekers was to introduce to us to Blitz´s internal world. We already saw him being super rude and a bad person to the people he loves, but here we begin to understand why. We don´t even know how much of this bad trip Blitz´s remembers later, they never talk about it because this was for us and not for them. S1E7. In Ozzie´s actually I never expected him changing but the opposite. In that episode he thinks there is a confirmation that Stolas is embarrased of him in public, and only sees him as an object for sex. There is no motivation for him to change there, because he thinks nobody will love him and he will end up alone anyway, no mattter what he does. This is why in episode 8 he behaves worse. This is him getting worse and not improving. S2E6: Recovering Fizz will help him to be better in the future, but here we see that he still has unsolved issues. When he tries to make the hug between him and Fizz sexual he is still clearly uncomfortable with intimacy and being open and vulnerable with others. Perhaps this episode would have fill better later, but I feel that interrupting the final Stolitz arc with S2 with this would felt anticlimactic so... S2E9: Apology Tour is he finally admitting that he has a problem. He needed to lose Stolas to be forced to admit this. Their breakup was necesarry. In the begining of the episode he is the same as he always is, because he fell again in his pattern of self-sabotage. He doesn´t actually want to apologize to those people. Until he hears Stolas sing the song he touches rock bottom, and when he talks to Verosika is like when an addicted person admits that has a problem, but hasn´t actually changed that addiction. S2E10: Until Ghostfuckers is when his healing starts, when he is openly supported by a true friend who sees his vulnerability. Here we can see all the moments that hurt Blitz feelings. He wants to intrude MyM´s relationship because he feels ignored by them, he feels excluded when they hug each other and they don´t check on him if he is fine, or they don´t include him. He fears they will go and leave him alone. He also regrets all his mistakes in his relationship with Stolas, and realizing too late that the relationship was real. S2E11: Here Blitz completes his transformation. He sees that Stolas truly loved him, because of the sacrifice he did. He wasn´t just infatuated nor he just wanted anyone´s attention. Stolas loved HIM even after seeing his worse side. For the first time in Blitz´s life someone stood by him after he did what he always does: shove people away, being mean with them bc he is not able to admit or accept their feelings etc etc etc...... Here also Loona expresses to Blitz her love with no filters. Other people admire him. S2E12: In sinsmas is the first episode we see a different Blitz, the true Blitz without filters and bs. The impossible happened and he is getting a second chance with Stolas. In this episode we see a Blitz who: Is openly emotional and supportive, has completely let his walls down to someone, and was able to hug Stolas without the need to make it sexual (this was important because Stolas wasn´t ready, and show his grow in a clear way after what he told to Fizz), talked to Stolas about her sister, something we have never seen him doing, interact with M&M without feeling uncomfortable or left out, and after mastermind Loona changed with him and their relationship grew (I honestly would have liked to see this more developed, but it is fine). I feel that this is the timeline of things the show was trying to convey, but it has a problem of execution and these things are not very understandable by themselves. Also, repeating the nightmare kind of thing in Ghostfuckers I get it that is repetitive and they could have used another resource for Ghostfuckers, and since the series has taken so long people expected everything to happen faster. I started watching this series this year and I didn´t had those expectations, because I didn´t had all the time in the hiatus to think further about things and to have more expectation of see the characters change. If you see something during an entire day and the characters change less you don´t care, but if you have spent years the sensation is very different. I think that ultimately, the people who like this show are the ones who decide to enjoy it, and for whom these flaws are not actually as detrimental to their enjoyment of it (I am not saying they don´t matter, but honestly this team receives too much undeserved hate, they are improving and they are just trying to create a story they love. Is flawed, but is it really that bad?) I honestly hope that the new release schedule they are going to implement helps with this issue because they won´t need to have these emotional moments to get the audience hooked all the time. They will release the series in a more usual format, with longer waits between seasons and closely timed released episodes. I feel that this was a good desition on Medrano, because in this way she will be able to structure the narrative better.
@@MoRPho151 I do agree that his development has made some progress at points, but for me watching the show back to back it’s hard to watch him re-tred some ground. I tried really hard for this video not to read too hard into the writers intentions and especially their tweets or thoughts, and just take the show with all it had. I do think you make a great case though and really appreciated your comments! I also appreciate your proper use of grammar in a TH-cam comment section. I had a good time reading your thoughts!
I have watched every episode of this show and over time have just given up on it, me and my partner have almost said all the same things you have, and some more specific yet related topics. Such as character designs especially with the sins and how they seem to just be repetitive, or Milly not having really a character till, or Moxie forever being scared, etc. Most of the time i come to watch videos like these to get different takes, but they always lean on loving or hating the show, not truly being non-biased about it. A lot of the time this comes down to "HAHA that's the show in which they say cocks a lot" or the opposite side "this show has a rich meaning that is just being hated on because of the gayness" (both are meant to be exaggerative) and it is usually annoying. I like the world of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel but they both just are really lacking in different ways, and seem to not likely improve at all.
Unfortunately, I agree with you, to be fair the show started out as an episodic comedy, so stagnant characters would have worked just fine, but the pivot they made to character drama has really shot themselves in the foot because their characters aren't written for long term growth. That01gamer also left an amazing comment on this video that had good ideas as well.
To me, the moment a piece of midia and entertainment takes us out of the experience and puts us away from the world is when it fails. Helluva Boss has many great moments that pulls you in, but is not tied well enough to remain investing or memorable. That is why I am so hard on this show. Even if I believe Vivzie is an awful person, I wish her shows were good. Because is full of potential, but it lacks quality
Yeah, I remember that being brought up in this video and I've combed through it a bit but couldn't find the clip: th-cam.com/video/flLEr_sYC-k/w-d-xo.html Warning though he is incredibly harsh and biased on the show, but he makes some good points. He gets debunked on a lot of stuff as well, but not on the fan made ending I think. I could be wrong though.
@phils-a-mek6345 alot of this video is mis information. (Lily does that often) As well as a lot of other creepy stuff. (Not my place, many people have covered that) I have made a VERY long comment about your Steven universe section which I hope you read. -- There are tons of videos about her misunderstanding of writing. (Not about his creepy behavior but there are tones of videos talking about that too.) Look them up. You'll be surprised.
That's interesting, I've heard how bad these shows are, but beforehand, i was recommend to watch the first episode of Hastion Hotel (idk the name), the frist episode alone made me not watch it, it was fast paced, it felt like a jump from point a to point b so quickly i couldn't fully digest what just happened on the last scene, and I'm not really a fan of musicals in general, unless the tracks are catchy, in which i did hear some of it's soundtrack, i like it, I just tend to dislike charlkie xbox 360's song or Disneyish piano kinda things (also this came out of nowhere). But as i said, the writing felt very confusing, felt like three or even a season pushed into one episode, i understand that streaming has killed longer seasons but i get the feeling that if it had longer episodes, it would just be fillers. Just by that one episode i was able to just see the show's flow. Also the characters know each other already?? That was the most disappointing part about it, we didn't get to see how they met, how they connected, how they came to be trying to get rid of their sins or redeem, it's just they know each other, how do u start a show like that. Within the other show, helluva boss, i didn't watch it, as it's too childish with it's swearing, the sexual jokes for my taste. It just felt like the show was aming or crated by a teenger themselves. I saw the critiques of these shows more than the actual show as it kept coming into my feed, it's entertaining to watch ngl, the show is flawed, but i the way critics and audience praise it is what caused it's downfall, I'm sure the creator is one of the reasons of it, but it's horrible writing, the constant praise, boring stick figure designs, shipping, and the the creator antics on twtter, its a perfect mix for hater to emerge. I'm just someone who isn't all too familiar with it, so take me as an outsider, if an outsider sees flaws and sees how critically acclaimed it is, you get to question a lot of things of what is good and what's not good. (Ps. Why are fhe characters so skinny, it's giving twinks energy and I am getting tired of twinks representing LGBT community).
I love the show. I just want one thing to happen and I can't really see what other people see. So can you kind of like a little bit? Explain not in a video but like explain how it's bad. I mean, I kinda got it, but I still didn't get it. I mean the character concepts I get but still I did like your explanation. It did help me a little bit but yeah, like I'm if you about one thing and I'm if you about the other but I really hope the show can boost up. If not well, I might have to drop it still like your opinion though.❤❤❤❤❤❤
Yeah 100%! The main flaws I am seeing are repetitive character moments. I encourage you to "binge" the show. Episodes feel wonky back to back without months between them. I would encourage you not to drop the show though! There is nothing wrong with loving it despite it's flaws! Thank you for your comment!
@phils-a-mek6345 yeah I get it now the show does need a boost and some Characters have MORE character plot then the main character's do but yeah still I really hope they get better at writing because if not we all know what would happen and NO THANK YOU REALLY FOR YOUR COMMENT ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Im working on my own helluva boss rewrite, it will have stolas be a villain (although he is a good dad) Blitzo and verosika get back together. In spring broken its tease they still care for each other. (They became more amicable after an original episode where verosika is forced to hire IMP as bodyguard). In apology tour, we get the flashback of how blitz and verosika met and get longer apology from blitz to her. (No half hearted apologies, more focused on blitz and verosika relationship). They get together in sinsmas. Unhappy campers happens before harvest moon festival. Both episodes have more focus on millie and with flasbacks. Loona and her friends get screen time. Also loona and octavia friendship get developed. (Loona and via met in loo loo land, no seeing stars instead an episode of loona leading a mission that via join in.) Sallie may join IMP (who appear much more before hand) Hell's belles and the other shorts are full episodes. Cherubs and dhorks have more episodes setting up by themselves and together before a final battle with IMP. (2 eps for separate intro, 2 eps for developing each other and 2 for teaming up) Stella backstory is that is the past, she was unknowingly an affair partner of another couple. Stella never loved stolas, but she used a love potion on stolas just to have octavia. Because of her past, she was put on pressures to have a good relationship. When stolas cheated, she put all the blame on him and try to kill him to protect her and octavia. She now believes she must save blitz from stolas, not wanting blitz to suffer a same fate. Also get to interact with blitz. Striker get killed off by a new villain (my oc, i dont like striker, he worked better a minor villain). M&M do beat striker in a fight before his death. Belphegor and Leviathan have episodes before mastermind. Leviathan ep have stolas get called by verosika and stella for his actions and Leviathan comments on stolas envy for happy couple. Belphegor ep is where the goat returns and accidentally summons her when trying to find blitz for help to fight the penguin. Mastermind is a two/three parter. (A full proper trial and parts of sinsmas, stolas powerless and homeless) Stolas and octavia do get to properly talk, but a spell is put on via to hate stolas. Sinsmas end with stolas hired by blitz and friendzone by him, but Blitz atleast promise to help save octavia. Stolas get redemption in the next season.
Im tired of people just being blown away by the pretty animation and ignoring everything else. The flaws are clear as day yet the fans are too mesmerized to even care causing them to lash out on people who disagree with them.
I keep seeing this said more than actual fans attacking anyone who disagrees with them. I’m in the camp of ‘yes, you can be critical. Just don’t be surprised when anyone on the show’s side adds to the discourse.’
I don't like this show because of the questionable writing choices made and the fact that Vivziepop is an even worse person in real life. And yet I can't bring myself to completely hate it because of how fun it is to watch anyway, and it always makes me feel like shit, because I want to hate it with all my might, but I just... can't. I have fun dunking on it and I enjoy the many arsenal of celebrity voice actors Vivziepop brings with her to the show, but that's all the positives I can see from this. Otherwise, I wholewheartedly welcome any and all disappointment and failures the show brings with open arms, as this is all I expect from this show. They say that it feels fanfic-y, but even then there are Helluva Boss fanfics written way better than the canon show. I want to aspire to be better than her; to not repeat the same mistakes made in the show. I just wish thise missed potentials weren't always swept under the rug in favor of playing favorites with a fictional character you fell in love with, like that Greek myth with the sculptor and the Galatea statue.
Yeah, it's frustrating that a lot of her choices and actions can bring the show down, but I love that it has opened the creative door for so much talent in and outside of the show. I do think her excuse of it being okay sounding "fanfic-y" is just a bad cover for poor writing.
Alan ituriel is not vizzie pop Alan ituriel is a good voice actor a creator and book creator and Alan ituriel is not creator of hasbin hotel and helvela boss, vizzie and her cast have been stealing audience from Alan and then people mistaken Alan ituriel for all of the stuff vizzie did also Alan ituriel dose not have graphic sexual, drugs etc stuff that vizziepop have done in her stuff mostly the sexual stuff is really not Alan ituriel's stuff, I am trying to point out vizziepop has ruin a lot people and Alan ituriel is not involved with vizziepop I am a Alan ituriel fan and as a Alan ituriel fan I am trying to explain right that Alan ituriel has nothing to do with vizzie pop vizzie pop is the mastermind of getting people confused and angry.
Dude, it's only been two seasons. While it's not perfect It's not that bad. Character growth doesn't happen that swiftly. And moreover I think it's the audience that has the bigger issue. These people act like making animation is easy, it's not. It's difficult and it costs cash, not to mention, people expect characters to change within like two episodes or more and that's not realistic. And don't get me started on people obsessing with their fan theories...
I fully get where you're coming from. I know animation isn't cheap at all, I've dabbled in the field myself, so I apologize if my video came across that way. I do get that character growth isn't over night, but I have seen much personally since the show started. I have a hard time as well when shows like Dan Da Dan and JJK can showcase incredible character growth through dialogue and action in 2 or 1 season.
Honestly, I don't think you guys know how animation and writing works, and while the show isn't perfect (there's no perfect show), acting like "I would have done it better" seems like hollow reasoning to me, because what's stopping you from getting a group of animators together and making your own series or pilot? While your criticisms are valid, and better done than most haters, I don't think you appreciate the awesomeness that is Helluva Boss because you think "I would have done it differently", but that's the point, it's not made by you, it's the story Viv and Brandon decide to tell, and that's fine. I worry that this type of criticism will discourage young artists from creating new stuff if everyone is going to be like "if it doesn't meet my expectations, it shouldn't exist", especially considering how hard indie animation is.
I totally didn't mean this video to come off that way. I love Helluva Boss, it's the reason I wrote this, and my intro and outro were meant to encourage young or new creators to create anyway because like you said it'll never be perfect but it will still be loved. I'm sorry if my video sounded overly negative. While yes there are things I personally would do differently, the reason I didn't give my ideas on what actions the characters and story should take next was because I want Viv and her writers to do that. I know that they can do better and want them to improve the series. Thank you for your comment though!
@@phils-a-mek6345 Sorry if my comment came across as too negative or accusatory or even defensive. I admit that I have had a number of encounters with people who try to "fix" the show, without even trying to enjoy it for what it is (Which they don't have to force themselves to do, if it's not their taste, they can just stop watching, but instead they prefer to become haters...), and the worst thing is that many of the things they are accused of as "bad writing" are things that I genuinely enjoy about the show, so sometimes it even feels like a personal attack on my tastes... Again, your criticisms are valid and well-constructed, it's clear that you're not a hater who operates only in immaturity and egocentrism, although I don't agree with several things, it's more because we have different tastes, and that's okay. Again, sorry for projecting my bad experiences onto you, if you want, I can remove the comment if it bothers you?
@@phils-a-mek6345 If you don't give them any ideas on what actions the characters and story should take how exactly are they supposed to improve the series?
@@Aural4444 No, don't remove the comment you are A-okay! I just wanted to make sure that you knew I wasn't trying to make it a personal attack. I love that you enjoy the show, and don't get me wrong, I do as well. I just want to see it grow and improve. You have good thoughts and your experiences are totally valid!
@@Anarcho-Bunnyist The reason I didn't is because I want to see what the writers would come up with. I was worried that if I included what I would do / my ideas it would come across as pretentious and like "I could do better." In all reality I could not lol.
I'm sorry if the video came off as hateful, that wasn't my intention. I love Helluva Boss and I wrote this out of love and a hope for higher expectations. In no way shape or form do I think I could do a better job.
@@phils-a-mek6345 I mean you don't have to apologize for everything, it's just the internet, it's okay for people to have different opinions vs meshing and i don't mind it. I went through a people pleaser phase as a kid and i ran into issues years in where two people expected the world to revolve around them.. And then met the other. and try as much as you want, equality wasn't good enough for both, only them at the expense of the other. Not saying there's a right or wrong and this can be a conflict ridden fandom, but as they say with the Man, wife and donkey story. You can try to please everyone only to get "Look at that man hogging the donkey, how negligent of his wife!" -> Man gives wife donkey -> "Look at that wife hogging the donkey! That man must be subservient/stupid!" -> both ride the donkey "They'll break that poor things back!" -> Neither use donkey "Look at them, so stupid and wasteful!" -> Couple carries donkey "WTF?!??" Draw a line in the sand anywhere and some will agree, some will disagree, that's life, and it's okay not to spend it doing hop scotch.
I really hope you address this comment and not just ignore it.
I liked your imput on helluva boss but your part on Steven Universe was a miss.
(This comment is LONG so prepare for the essay) - Do keep in mind that this isn't hate but honest crituqe.
Also you not knowning about lily orchards creepish and disingenuous nature isn't a show of YOUR character but of the mis information she has spread.
Please reply with any questions about Steven Universe that you may have after reading my comment. Or if you disagree with what i'm saying let me know.
(The last bit of this whole comment just addressing the frustration I had with that specific part of your review.)
Anyway... Heres the essay.
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1. Steven starts off as naive and loving (Yes that's his ONE flaws) However you stating that "He never grows out of this" is one of THE MOST MISINFORMED statements I have ever heard.
Stevens WHOLE JOURNEY is about him maturing and realizing that the world around him isn't as Black and White as he once did. (EVEN having MULTIPLE episodes late in the series talking about and showing how much he had matured.)
Steven is the son of a REBELION. His mother. She gave up her form (Gave her life), to have Steven.
Everyone around Steven tells him how great his mother is. Steven wants to one day become like her.
Steven sees all the people this war has hurt and does his best to break through to them. However learns that not everyone can be saved. People can't be force to change.
However no matter what Steven does his name is always connected to his mother. Steven wants to be LIKE HER but never like himself.
So Steven becomes VERY SELFLESS to the point where he puts his own life in danger to save others. (Because that's what others escpet of him as roses song)
QOUTE FROM STEVEN IN EXTENED INTRO: "I will fight to be everything, that everybody wants me to be when I'm grown"
However throughout the show he that his mother isn't the perfect being he thought she was. Steven learns that she's a liar and in order to win a war (That she started) she has to step on MANY PEOPLE. (Spinel is the result of this but I will get to that.)
The "Rose Tinted Glasses" (Pun intended - smart of the show) are coming off.
Rose isn't this perfect being but also she has done some mess up things.
His maturing is also paired with his identity crisis.
THE SHOW ENDS with Steven finally accepting himself as STEVEN. Not his mother but STEVEN.
This is me leaving out details that would make this ALREADY LONG comment even longer. But now onto the movie.
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2. THE MOVIE MISINFORMATION
The movie isn't the first time his problems have been adressed. Steven's flaws have been adressed since season 2 and on.
Plus the problems you represent Steven having in the movie has nothing to do with his CHARACTER in the movie.
Movie Steven is one that has BEEN THROUGH A JOURNEY. Now starting on a new one.
*ABOUT SPINEL*
In Steven Universe the movie the whole journey in that is to find his "happily ever after" after years of fighting to dismantle an empire. After he thinks he's finally found peace.
But Spinel shows up and ruins that buy bringing her injector (A device that threatens the earth). Not long after the villian gets her memories reset along with a few of Steven's friends. Now Steven's jounrney is to bring back
Spinel IS in the wrong. Her emotions and feelings aren't but her actions are. Steven doesn't want ANYTHING to do with Spinel after she threatened his home and almost cost lives. Steven gets through to spinel and she wants to work with steven to help stop the destruction she caused. However due to her being emotionally volitile she misunderstands when
Steven obviously having his mind occupied with getting back to his "Happily ever after" does leave spinel for what he sees as more important.
Calling Steven "Selfish" in the movie for thinking more about his DYING HOME rather than Spinel who CAME TO EARTH TO HURT HIM AND HIS FAMILY.
(Spinel quote: "Y'know I came here to take my anger out on a bunch of strangers, but now that I know you, I wanna kill you even more")
Steven "TALKING HER DOWN" in the song change (After spinel relaped due to misinformation) is about the fact that "She can make a change but it just takes time"
STEVEN TALKING SPINEL DOWN was him not wanting to fight her because he can see the pain she's going through. (Pain inflicted by his MOTHER and NOT HIM.) yet she's taking it out on him.
QUOTE STEVEN: "I'm paying for Stuff my mom did that had nothing to do with me"
STEVEN NEVER said he wasn't gonna support spinel.
He just didn't want her apart of his life.
May I ask? Would you let someone who attacked you and threated your famiy become a normal part of your life just because they are mentally ill.
No? right.
-----
My finale thoughts.
Your whole Steven Universe portion was VERY *misinformed* and out of left field. With all your points being derived from a Steven Universe hit piece (Made by a person who is known for NSFW fanfics of minors)
Oh my goodness I really wasn't well informed. I will add something to the description of the video correcting the misinformation I included. That's on me for including things without fact checking them. I haven't watched the show since probably high school which has been a few years. I'm sorry to indirectly throw shade at the show. I'll definitely circle around and probably make a video essay on that show at some point. Thank you very much for your comment and I appreciated the rose tinted glasses joke!
@@phils-a-mek6345 Ay listen, we all make mistakes.
I love the points you were going for though. (Gonna check out more of your content)
Steven Universe, like any other show, has it's problems so I wouldn't mind seeing stuff about you pointing them out.
My goal is never to sway opinions but to have people come to their own without second hand info.
PS: Also, that joke was honestly to perfect to not say it. (Pats self on back)
@@Gevo-tube Thank you thank you
@@phils-a-mek6345 ofc ofc
@@phils-a-mek6345 Maybe you can also add that in a pinned comment so it would be easier for people to see.
I definitely think that a lot of modern shows and movies have the same problem of saying "you're perfect the way you are", thus keeping characters in a loop of addressing their flaws, doing something in the moment, then going back to the status quo the next episode
Very well said, I totally agree with you!
Its okay if its an episodic show with little continuity but hb seems to both want continuity and doesnt want it so its hard to gauge what should and shouldnt be counted as character development
@@digitalrecord6334 Exactly!
I think the shows that HB could take notes of are Adventure Time and Gravity Falls. While Gravity Falls and Adventure Time are kids' series, they both handle the episodic/ continuous story arc. The use of monsters on Adventure Time is hella creative, as well as its music.
@@digitalrecord6334I love that you criticised as an artist would. Most critics I have watched do it not from a place of care (which I believe ALL criticism should take place from) but for clout.
All the villains are weak, dumb, non threatening, irrelevant and they'll all be cartoonishly evil or gone too soon
Yeah absolutely! I think that aspect suffers from the fanbase. Like Ozmodious was such a good villain, especially paired with Fizz, but because the fans loved them so much, they changed to good guys. I think the one expection is Stella, because despite her being liked, she has to be cartoonishly evil to excuse Stolas' actions/ morally justify them.
This is probably one of the reasonable “fixing” on a show.. it’s pretty underrated like you and your channel..
Thank you so much!
My take on how to fix Helluvaboss:
Erase "Stolitz" form the script and demote Stolas to secondary character like he was always meant to be.
At least 80% of the issues are solved with that alone.
Very fair
How one dude said in comments somewhere-
"It's insane,how HB could've improved if someone with authority behind writers team could actually say-No,we won't do that... At least now."
Or
Maybe make him a villain?
Something I’ve noticed with both HB (and HH) is that they’re consistently inconsistent, both the characters and the story. I think the show itself doesn’t know where it wants to go and has now focused on repetitive drama rather than the original plot of the series. Character development is never properly addressed and sometimes it kinda feels like each episode is completely standalone from the last. Behaviors are inconsistent and a lot of information is either told to us through external sources or we have to rely solely on theories. The series is frustrating and I wish it was easier to express criticism
It’s kinda hard to find videos criticizing HB/HH that aren’t just full of hate- I was happy to find this video! Keep it up
I hundred per cent agree
At least with hazbin hotel, everything that is shown is what was advertised in the pilot. Yes there is some drama focus parts but it doesn't shift the plot entirely.
i dont know about you but i have seen alot of people who just wanted it to be good or those who hate it while giving educational purpose of what to NOT to do when writing stuff (such as "7 deadly sins of hazbin hotel" idk about you but i took it as an what not to do when writing fiction) and those who like the shows.
@@TheAlmightyPrime I kinda disagree? It feels like the hotel is more of a side plot rather than a main story. We don’t really have many episodes where it’s about the hotel. Besides, the pilot is years old on TH-cam and the official show is on Amazon Prime- if you’ve never watched HH before you can get really confused.
I think they should’ve started from the beginning and prioritized the hotel more. They introduced too many characters that weren’t exactly necessary to the main plot- just my thoughts though
@@anapple6912 I mean I wanted it to be good, I’m a writer and a longtime fan of vivziepop and knew her way before the Hazbin Hotel pilot got released. I’ve seen a good handful of videos that offer genuine criticism but I’d love to see more. Most videos made about the show are usually people defending it or people who just want to hate. There are good videos about the show, I just wanna see more lol
I must say, you bringing up shows not having a ‘clear ending’ as an issue is so valid, and now makes me even more worried for Helluva. Vivzie has stated that she plans to have 4 seasons, 50 episodes total. However, she said in an interview that she’s finished all the writing for season 3. I don’t know if she’s actually done the writing for season 4, or just plans to have 50 episodes because it’s a nice number, not because it’s the amount of episode this show needs.
However I don’t think Blitz is the only one with writing issues, and I actually think he does learn and grow. (A little.) The problem is everyone. I agree that they are probably trying to having emotional moments in each episode to keep the watcher hooked, which is hindering the story overall. In terms of Blitz growth, his first few breakdowns most certainly do not making him change. The one in episode 7 and 8 don’t affect him whatsoever. However him admitting his mistakes with Fizz does help repair their relationship, and they end up on good terms. We also get to see the payoff when he talks to Fizz in full moon and we see that they are friends (ish) again. Fizz also changes his mind and tells Ozzie to give Stolas the Asmodien Crystal to give to blitz. I think this shows growth, because Blitz apologised, explained, and repaired a relationship, along with moving the plot forward. However his apology in apology tour amounts to basically nothing (he’s moping in the next ep) and in ghostfuckers we don’t exactly see the change. He says he’ll stop trying to sleep with Millie but we don’t see any proof of this.
Which leads me to the flaw I think this series has: Show don’t tell. This show is so wish washy with what things we take seriously (Blitz harassing Moxxie is funny and Stolas having power over Blitz and using demeaning nicknames is silly till it’s not. And we get no sign of that is, the show just tells us how we should be feeling.) This show suffers from telling too much and too little at the same time. We’re supposed to accept that after the events at Ozzie’s, the two of them go back to how things were before. Not so much as a word about the tragedy at the end of episode 7. I get that they’re ignoring their problems but all I needed was a moment to prove that it happened and they were both there. They didn’t show us their growth, how did we get here? At the end of seeing stars, Loona still punches her dad in the stomach and pretends not to care, when in Queen Bee, she called him dad, and suddenly at the end of season 2 she’s back to calling him dad?? What??
I’m sure there’s lots of other examples but I think I got my point across. Great video!
Also I have to put this out there (not about the video but fandom): Everyone describes her work as fan fiction which I can agree with, to some degree. It seems she had characters in the start who don’t change in large capacities, and has no exact direction besides moments. I sort of hate that everyone says this though, because yes her writing.. not great. But I think people are minimising her talent. She wasn’t just lucky, people enjoyed the things she made and liked it. I think she does love her world and is trying her best, but needs some more writers to help her make her story amazing. (luckily I believe she’s hired some more writers for season 3 so let’s see if that helps.)
Edit: Someone said that this show took a hard turn into romance, becoming a fan fic of itself in season 2. THAT I can agree with. We all felt cheated at the hard romantic turn this show took. Danny Motta makes a good point that by S2Ep3 the show had almost entirely stopped being a comedy, and the last mission they went one was TECHNICALLY Ep 12, but they didn’t kill anyone, so episode 5 season 2. (Which was a trash ep tbh. Also someone mentioned Viv wasn’t involved in the writing of that ep, so every ep she writes is about the romance now and not the missions.) Ep 3 season 2 was also technically a mission? But didn’t involve killing. We’ve strayed so far from the original concept of the show.
Personally I think that the show wants to tell a story but also wants to keep itself episodic (while possible, still hard if are not even sure what the show is supposed to be about or drifted to far from it's original plan) Another thing I don't see discussed often is how 2D the characters are, because lets be honest you can describe each character in a few words and it's especially noticeable in the supporting cast. That's why characters like Moxie repeat there arc over and over again and we know plenty about Milly, but also why she's mostly known as Moxies wife.
I think it happened because the character were not well planed out or the show itself drifted from its original purpose (to be an episodic comedy, if I recall corectly). It's fixable if you just add more traits to the characters and also if a character overcomes a flaw they can develop a new one (for example. Sears Victoria from Hellsing, after she became a vampire she refused to drink blood and had a hard time killing gouls/other vam., because it was moray wrong in her eyes, but that made her weak, both meatily and physically, sooner or later she drank blood and became more cruel to the point were killing an army of undead was fun to her. While she still kept her kindness, you could see a noticeable shift in her personality and if the show had continued it could have been explored more and turned in to an emotional conflict).
And lastly while I do not disagree that Viv has some talent and I only knew her for her animations, I believe she is more talented in animation and character design then writing.
The writers should acknowledge that what Stolas did to Stella 'is' shitty and indefensible.
Her being a horrible person does not justify Stolas being horrible back to her.
Because then that makes them both just horrible.
And Octavia is caught in the middle and it's entirely Stolas' fault.
"Its indefensible" - I agree (although somewhat understandable since iirc, Stolas was drunk, but should have talked things through)
"Do not justify being horrible back" - Disagree. Specially in a forced marriage, what else are you supposed to do if not, at least, make your stance clear and not let yourself being trampled upon.
'"Both are horrible" - Agreed
"Octavia is caught in the middle is entirely Stola's fault" - Ehhhh... I mean, yeah. But it is the nature of divorces. A HEALTHY diverse couple would calmly explain that nothing is Octavia's fault and try to keep the shouting at a minimum. Something that neither Stolas nor Stella were doing. Stella has since forever criticised Stolas to both his front and back. Meanwhile Stolas cheated. Not only that, but Stolas was more into rubbing it into Stella that he was getting divorced rather than focusing on the ONE THING A DECADE/CENTURY to spend time with his daughter.
In conclusion, poor Octavia.
@@icarue993 Stella was forced into the marriage as well.
You can stand up for yourself and stop taking the abuse (which Stolas could have since he has powers and Stella doesn't) without hitting back (which Stolas did with the cheating and breaking Stella's things after kicking her out and mocking her over the phone).
The problem with the divorce is that Stolas doesn't really explain why it's happening to Octavia, she's given so little context on anything and all he gives her are empty promises.
If we're meant to sympathise with Stolas and see him as "the good one" then we should criticise him when he does stoop down to Stella's level...Which he does when he cheats on her (multiple times, it wasn't just the once) and he tells the Imp Butlers to "break it if you have to" and he calls her a "B-I-T-C-H" to Octavia's face.
You can't have your cake and eat it too when it comes to remaining sympathetic. Stella is an awful person but so is Stolas when we actually look at his actions critically.
But I agree, poor Octavia.
@@PlanetZoidstar I agree. They are both bad people that don't see fault in each of their actions, just that Stella is more cartoony in her villany.
Imagine having a civil conversation about their forced circumptances. Imagine
Fr, Stella was bad but wouldn't be as horrible now if Stolas didn't sleep with Blitz. That is the only reason why she wanted him dead.
@@icarue993 I actually would have liked that, for Stolas to 'actually' acknowledge that he hurt Stella and that he felt good because he finally got to pay her back for the abuse she put him through.
But instead Stolas acts like what he did was fully justified, to the point he doesn't even consider it cheating and just asserts that what he did never hurt her.
However the show has an agenda to push (Stolitz) and for that to happen they need Stella to be as unlikable and needlessly evil as possible.
I wouldn't mind Stella being pure evil if she didn't have a reasonable grievance against Stolas, but she does. She may go about it in the wrong way but there's a nuanced situation here the show refuses to acknowledge.
That both Stolas and Stella aren't good people and have mutually hurt one another.
Like how in Steven Universe they address that Lapis did actually lash out against Jasper for being captured and mistreated by her...And that she feels bad about it.
You can tell which episodes Brandon leads the writing on because he actually does stuff with the characters that effect them on a grounded personal level and should leave a lasting impact
You can tell when Viv is at the helm of the writing room for an episode because it'll focus on just
The most unnecessary stuff
Both shows plots went wildly off the original concept and pilots, and while Helluva boss still stands out as *reasonably solid*
I think Hazbin has been hit with the worst of it.
Well said! Most of the "fix" videos i've seen are mostly fanfiction so this was a refreshing watch
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Tbh I think they only made millie pregnant to put her on the sidelines and or they had nothing else to do with her because she can't fight while pregnant. They just want a reason to put her on the sidelines and keep her away from the screen
Also another way to fix the show would be vivzi paying her animators fairly. Like you know...not paying the favorites 1000 usd a week and paying the regular animators 35 usd for a second of animation....
Shoot is this real!?!
@phils-a-mek6345 yea- it really makes the show worse knowing that the people aren't being paid fairly it gives me a BAD feeling in my stomach yknow- there's lots of videos about it- I saw a video with proof and stuff and I was just like...(I don't know what emotion to describe it as it's kinda a mix of disappointment sympathy for the ones who are affected by it and mad and Viv)
@@DurpySpaghetti Dang, that is actually tragic
Oh yea the Millie part seems true
The reveal was just so random and served no purpose so using it for plot convienience seems like in HB style
wow an actually rational take on the internet about helluva this is amazing
@Maxtheeggman Thank you so much!
vivsie says that she already wrote the plot lines of the entire show, she's probably working on season 4 already, season 2 was fully written two years ago, according to her, she said that she progressed as a writer, i guess we'll find out
Hopefully she has
I already came up with an idea on reddit, thought I’d share it here.
1. Change I.M.P. to a mercenary business rather than a strictly assassination business. It gives episodes more leeway in what can happen. One episode they can be guarding someone, next episode they can be fighting a turf war.
2. Make each episode it’s own thing, while still keeping a serialized plot going on in the back.
3. Not every episode has to be about mercenary stuff. An episode of them in the office or doing stuff in hell works just fine. Reason why is because every episode being an action thing gets a bit old.
4. Revert Stolas and Blitz’s relationship back to Season 1: extremely toxic, unloving and exploitive. Stolas should be seen as a piece of crap who, as Ozzie says, “sold it all for a thrust.”
5. Remove whatever the Fizzarolli stuff was. I still don’t get it and I thought those episodes about him were stupid.
6. Take a break from the main cast to focus on other aspects of Hell. Namely the hierarchy. These guys are demons, they SHOULD be bad people. By doing this you can drive the plot into new directions.
7 (THE BIG ONE): Episode 1 of the series should begin before IMP even existed.
The A plot:Blitz is just a gun-for-hire doing stuff.
B plot would focus on Loona and her life growing up in Hell, before ending up in the pound. We learn about how hellhounds are the bottom of society. Literally pets or cannon fodder to many. We can learn and understand just why Loona is so moody and angry at everyone.
Let’s say halfway through the episode, Blitz decides to adopt a hellhound, so he heads to the pound. The scene plays out like it did in *Seeing Stars* but from Loona’s perspective. Once adopted Blitz takes her to his house and then office. Outside his office is the M&M’s, wondering if he’s hiring. He immediately welcomes them in, gives them boxes of his stuff, and tells them to get to unpacking. Episode ends.
Already sounds better, doesn’t it?
I agree with most of this, but I wouldn't remove Fizz just because he is kind of the key to unlocking more of blitz's back story with the circus
@@phils-a-mek6345 Perhaps they could have interactions with him be more limited/later in the seasons?
@@avacadotoast5571 Thats fair
The Mammon episode was actually really good, I wouldn't remove it, but I would completely rehaul Oops because it's too plot-convenient for its own good
The show lacks a narrative thread.
Either it needs to be focused on the IMP business, or fighting the oppression of the society they live in - i.e. Blitz becoming an icon for imps everywhere as shown In Mastermind.
Just having Blitz and Stolas in a will they wont they relationship isn't enough to carry the show. It's poorly done and frankly boring as it just keeps repeating itself.
The show implies we should care about all these characters and all these issues, but never takes the time to explain them. The show is more about making sex jokes or random gorey action scenes then exploring it's characters. Vivzie said her direct inspiration for HB was Bojack Horseman.
That show would've not worked if all they did was focus on the humor and toxic-relationships but didn't show the deeper character moments to back it up.
Bojack can't work if we don't know about his suffering, his shitty childhood or continued failures.
The reason Blitzo doesn't fit the same way is because Blitz rarely if ever receives any consequences for his actions. The characters just say and imply stuff happens, but its like for 20 seconds of them randomly getting serious and emotional and it's like... what? You spent the past 15 minutes making constant sex jokes and slapstick humor?
Both hellva and Steven has the problems specifically where there writer aren’t writers they’re fanfics
yeah
The creative process really is like that most of the time - at least for me. The few things I've actually written to completion, I usually never really have an "end goal" in my head when I start, but I almost always have a very solid grasp on the beginning elements and maybe how some elements could loosely connect with others.
I totally get you. I write DND campaigns and I've started off without a solid ending, but for me at least, I try to plan or have an idea of where certain NPC's will end up so that they can best serve my story and players.
You framed this in a very mature and thoughtful way, thank you!
Yay! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Yay! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I don't agree with the SU part, to be honest, he is only 16 and probably exhausted with having to be a therapist for adults... but maybe I'm wrong. I just hate it when the Crystal Gems rely on Steven for what they lack even though he was always a kid during the series, very uncomfortable. If someone was trying to kill me, I wouldn't really want to think about their feelings either, I'd just go through the motions until they can get help from some other adults
Yeah, I really didn't like how reliate the whole show was on him, but I still absolutely see the appeal it has. I just didn't like it as much for the reason you mentioned (accepting people as who they currently are and as a result offloading trauma on children). I do think the shows themes are well intentioned and there are some lessons that make sense, but most end up in an unhealthy manner IMO
@@phils-a-mek6345 Steven Universe is a flawed show I agree - many things could've been handled better and it didn't have the best fanbase either. But I think it handled it's themes and characters better than Helluva Boss by a long-mile. Considering the concept art that came out ahead of time, I don't agree with the ending being improvised. There were too many moments of foreshadowing in season 1 for Rebecca to have done a last-season switchup to make Rose = Pink Diamond.
But mileage will vary on how much you got into the plotline and how much you like the twist. I think it had decent enough set-up though.
As for Steven being traumatized for the movie and future.. I think was an interesting place to go. Had he not changed and been exactly as he was at the start of the series, it would've been pretty boring.
Vivzepop is a fanfiction writer who got lucky, and therefore doesn't change because she thinks her writing has nothing wrong with it. She has cultivated a fan base that calls you a horrible person with a lick of criticism to it. Vivzepop is a horrible person who got lucky. You *cannot* change my mind.
I can totally understand that, but other people on the team are super lovely.
Everyone keeps saying vivzipop is a horrible person but I genuinely can’t get anyone to tell me why she’s so bad. What exactly has she done cuz I have no idea. Also she obviously put a lot of hard work into the series. She did get lucky as well, but she put in work too.
@@salmonanimates4469probably because of the reasons Autistic Swing highlighted in her videos "why Vivziepop is a bad person". I recommend giving them a watch as they contain a lot of information.
th-cam.com/video/pQqQhF5Q3EA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Wf1vXAaT0-pg2I3P
@@salmonanimates4469 100% I do agree that she has put in a lot of hard work, but she has done some not-so-savory things online. She is a Zionist which is basically a cult and she is really bad at press management (ie. if someone critiques her work she tears them apart on twitter). She can be very toxic to people who dislike her work and has shown she doesn't take criticism well. Granted she has been getting better recently and is a sweet person in person.
I'll be real. The only reason why I still watch the show is because I've watched it since the pilot and I've already made it this far. Might as well finish it out by this point.
Very fair
I think that Blitzø is better written that Stolas, because at least his actions/attitude are called out and he acknowledges them, the show isn't afraid to his wrongdoings. Stolas in the other hand, he is always given excuses for his actions, unlike Blitzø, he doesn't do anything wrong, it's always someone else's fault. Even Octavia's rejection, though it's portrayed as Stolas' fault, thanks to his constant status of victim, the fandom blames Octavia for being immature and spoiled, and even the writing puts all the blame on Stella ultimately because "this could be easily solved with a conversation" and "she was the reason Stolas neglected Octavia in Seeing Stars thus leading to his neglection". This mindset can, and I'm sure it will, be used to clean Stolas. Sacrifice Stella won't be an issues because isn't a real character and everyone hates her.
Stolas can act and cry about being poor and losing his privileges and it's played for laughs, yet the show doesn't dwell more on it, just like in Full Moon were he said that his relationship with Blitzø started badly, yet doesn't fully understand how messed up is to coerce people into sexual favors in exchange to other things they will permanently need to work, or how he doesn't realize he was pushy towards Blitzø even when the laters expressed his discomfort.
Making one of them look bad and calling it out while backing up everything the other does is frustrating.
I don't see Blitzø as a victim of all his wrongdoings, he can be a shitty person, but that doesn't take away all the things that Stolas had made him go through.
This show is so coward.
As a writer myself, I think the only reason I haven’t gone insane from the poor writing is because I HEAVILY love the music and animation of the hellaverse. But while I do watch the show with enjoyment, the issues do poke me in the gut constantly. I really respect how you talked about the show, it’s an incredibly rare respectful criticism lmao.
I love the people who work on this show, and I genuinely think this show can be amazing. But it just needs more tweaking that the creators don’t see as a top priority and want to do stupid sex jokes. Character developments/arcs NEED to continue throughout the episodes, it’s what MAKES them developments. You can’t just set up important events and then completely forgot they happened the next episode.
I can go on, but you said a lot of them excellently. I hope that at one point the show does get better, because again, as a writer, this can be a great show, if it just finds itself properly and sticks with what it set out to do. (I said that really messily but you get the point lmao).
You're straight spitting! I agree whole heartedly, the shows potential and lack of reaching it really pain me because of how amazing the show is everywhere but the story!
this was so incredibly well written and put together. what a great deconstruction on why the writing of helluva boss falls flat!
Thank you very much! I sincerely hope that the series makes a turn around.
I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned how Blitz just a 1-80 character change near the end on the last 2nd episode and most of the final episode. Like this is a guy who has experience a lot of trauma and pushed everyone away, so why is he so okay with Stolas now? After all their history, which started on a one sided sex business trade, where it seemed most of times
Blitz was uncomfortable or baring through it because his ‘comfortable’ life was on the line as well as his employees. And Stolas, from how he acts from the show, has been dehumanising him with pet names, often times seem as a joke banter to the creators of the show, rather then reflection to the actual characters feelings, or Stolas lack in emotional intelligence to understand how that can seem dehumanising or somewhat racist to him due to his privilege, therefore I don’t see Stolas as a hypocrite I genuinely think he’s unaware of his actions, and blitz is not the most reasonable person when he addresses it, he often shouts out his anger and Stolas just sees that as him being a asshole rather then being genuine. There’s so much toxicity and hatred and complexity to address with these characters and the show never mentions them, or wants us to forget their history so we can move or rush forward to blitz x Stolas, which in my opinion, shouldn’t even exist, the final episode of the season just feels forced, with blitz character the most, while Stolas on the other hand, is confusing on the other hand he’s reciprocating blitz kiss, and the other he doesn’t seem to reciprocate the hug, like I’m so frustrated with his character, on the off hand he’s creating bad Wattpad stories about him and blitz and then telling the audience how much he regrets and how stupid he was for not letting blitz getting killed, and I’m just sitting there, being like, I’m supposed to root for this character? 💀 he said this is all with blitz being on the job, imagine how screwed he’d be or how hurt blitz would be if he heard this, especially when blitz even if out of character knowing his amount of baggage is being very nice, too nice in my opinion. Like is the only reason why blitz is being nicer here, is because Stolas saved his life? And so Stolas was about to selfishly take his life for blitz without hesitation knowing octovia be traumatised and sword deep by his actions. Even so, I don’t believe that’s something anyone should owe you for, I would understand appreciation and slow building trust to open up and get more intimate yet done in a way it feels natural, but no, blitz is very strangly supportive, loving, sweet, it feels very out of character and Stolas just feels frustrating. And are we going to move on from the fact Stolas just kissed a random guy, and that never got explored? I feel like a new relationship would’ve been good for Stolas character, to learn to be better with someone who hasn’t got so much baggage, but no, everything feels very rushed, last minute, the jury scene was unbelievably dumb, for such powerful demons, it’s shrugged off as a ‘not my problem, I want lunch’ like I’m supposed to be emotionaly invested while the other characters telling me it’s a waste of time or being silence, like I can get it’s a privilege narrative, but Stolas, someone who’s privilege, no one questioned him, bro said ‘I am the mastermind’ and satan said ‘yeah okay, no child and privileges for you’ we don’t get an actual intellect discussion, not to mention the song felt very out of no where and don’t say much of anything. And the parrot guy, I love his design and voice actor and finesse, but he just contradicts Stolas whole ‘I had no friends’ background.
@@PhotograohyCottage YOU ARE SPITTING TRUTH, SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE ONES IN THE BACK
This is a really well made video. I often dislike helluva critiques because sometimes they’re so overly negative but I really like yours!
I'm glad! Thank you!
Thank you for making this! This popped up in my recommended just now, and I'm glad it did. This kind of civil discourse is what not only the fans, but also the CREATORS themselves need to engage in more frequently. I would love to hear the creators' own organized thoughts on HB and the constructive criticism they've received. I love this show to death, but I ascribe a lot of that to it being a vicarious emotional outlet for me during COVID, as it gave me promises and hints of an amazing story while the first few episodes were being developed during that crazy time. It's frustrating to see such a story not coming to fruition after all of this time, and I'm worried that season 3 will be more of the same, with maybe one or two major moments of genuine character development if the writers get lucky on their current course. Keep up the good vibes, everyone!
Thank you so much! You're comment means the world to me. I also hope the show gets better.
At this point fizz just seems more like another angel dust to me. Same problems, same personality, same everything, just a different look.
I really like Fizz, what ticks me off about him is that Mammon and Fizz were in the same exact situation as Stolas and Blitz and resolved their conflict in 2 episodes perfectly fine while it's taken Stolas and Blitz 2 seasons and counting to get their crap together.
@phils-a-mek6345 I agree. I miss when the show was actually about the assassination business like it was supposed to be. I'm tired of this stupid toxic yaoi soap opera.
HB was not advetised as a romance so that's why the audience feels justifiable betrayed. Only in episode 7 we actually start to get romance plot. Viv once twetted something in the lines of: "what's wrong if a show becomes a fanfic of itself?". We got the answear: braindead plot animated well.
I expected it to be bad, I did not expect “cheating is okay if it’s gay and and it’s bad when a woman does it”.
Also wow, how ironic that the most underdeveloped female character that Vivziepop insists has a lot of hidden depth is given a pregnancy plot. How much do you want to bet she’s going to be completely sidelined in the next season.
ALSO, sorry yall but I don’t think Stolas is actually going to apologize for being a bad father to Octavia. Did we forget what happened when Ozzie called out Stolas in “Ozzie’s” and Blitzo chewed out Stolas in “Full Moon”, the former didn’t even keep his energy and Blitzo was so thoroughly punished that it felt like he was being abused into falling for Stolas.
In fact that’s not even the first time she defensively said there’s nothing wrong with her writing feeling like fanfiction. She even called it homophobic when people used fanfiction as deragatory bc some queer people like it…. That’s like saying it’s homophobic to shit on Big Mouth because it has some queer fans.
This is a video from Flazefire about HB and he also has one of HH, they are very informative, I recommend watching them. th-cam.com/video/7tehtH-rg94/w-d-xo.html&si=GcmeFlppkDFsIJSJ
The tweets are at 26:00 mark and they go for a minute or so. One of the dates is december 1st 2024.
I observed that while in Avengers there was only one way to end well, in every Vivziepop show there is only one way to end wrong and the writers bend over backwards to achive it. Example s2 e9 the fallout would have been avoided if eighter one of them did some gesture different and s2 e11 where no one in the court has a brain.
In other shower thoughts, with season 2 ending we can finally say that Unhappy campers WAS THE MILLIE EPISODE ALL ALONG, yes, not Ghost fu- which btw was written by Brandon. Let that sink in...how much Viv cares about Millie.
It just struck me: ep 2, 5 and 6 are pointless, ep 4 ruined Striker, ep 11 is the worst written trial in fiction (THE TRIAL FOR STOLAS, NOT BLITZ, THEY CAN'T BE FOR THE SAME CRIMES!!!) and ep 12 excuses Stolas further.
I won't defend these remarks, however I left out the true worst episode of the entire show, the one every new watcher should skip because the wrtiitng is so bad that retcons the entire show before and even worse, after it. This episode should have his own medal alongside other boring episodes because it should not exist. Ladies and gentlemen, the worst episode of the entire show, because it spoils everithing else without ever being referenced once after its air, is...THE CIRCUS...
Yeah, making Blitz and Stolas childhood friends and Blitz be Stolas’ first love really fucked up the dynamic that had been set up in season 1
I liked Stolas better as a character when he was a problematic person, a flawed character who had a bad power dynamic in his relationship with Blitz. He was more interesting and had more potential in the story then.
Like, if you want to make Blitz and Stolas have that childhood connection, make it less special for child Stolas, and make it that Blitz remembers that, but Stolas doesn’t (bc the way he was written in the beginning of the show suggested that he was privileged and spoiled enough that he wouldn’t have thought much of a lower class demon brought in to entertain him)
Make hell have more explicitly problematic systems of oppression, rather than just giving lip service to it, like when Satan says imps were made to be obedient. Show us the ways imps are treated poorly by higher class demons instead of just hand-waving in the direction of it. Like maybe circus imps are regularly brought in to entertain royal children as jesters, and that’s how Blitz was familiar with the layout of the palace. Maybe Stolas- in keeping with his early series characterization- after discovering Blitz sneaking around the palace as an adult, hits on him and Blitz plays into it to get closer to the book. Make it so that Stolas’ behavior in the pilot and the first episode of the show make sense in context with Blitz and Stolas’ first sexual encounter. Having it be this sentimental “the one who wants me is my first friend” doesn’t follow, even with the joke that Stolas thinks Blitz wants to dirty talk and commits way too hard to that, and /thats/ why he acts the way he does in the pilot and first episode.
Vivzie seems to be scared of making her characters actually flawed. Like she wrote Stolas the way she did in the pilot for the dark humor of it and also bc Stolas was initially gonna be an antagonist, but then she wanted to ship him and Blitz, so somewhere along the way she just decided that they can’t have this problematic beginning to their relationship, with the power imbalance, so it has to be something more sensitive and sentimental.
Stolas and Blitz being childhood friends don't even make sense since Stolas was supposed to be very old like few thousand years in HB he is born in modern era which is weird
Incredibly well said, I'll definitely check out that video!
@@danaugg9183 oh yeah that too. There is something that one one knows, even Viv hreself: how much does she take from her source materials? To HH its the Bible ant to HB its The lessor key of Solomon. So all the ancient demons Viv adapts look like were born at least in the last 200 years (Bee's lava lamp body and hair, do I need to explain more?). So only Stolas, his brother in law and the parrot guy are the only one that got age nerfed, but they keep their immortality? W T F is this arbitrary fanfic logic?
@@danaugg9183 Yeah, his change from the pilot to now was like whiplash
The best way to fix HB is deleting that shi
From what I've heard, the show Bojack Horseman is a big inspiration for Helluva Boss, & in BH, the main character does a TON of terrible things, swears he'll change, but never does, often doing everything with selfish intentions; which is exactly how Blitz is written in HB. We're supposed to care about this terrible person, & while it works very well in Bojack Horseman, it doesn't work as well, if even at all, in Helluva Boss.
I personally haven't been able to identify *why* it works so well in BH, but falls flat in HB, but it's obvious Helluva Boss is missing the secret sauce. I know there's some great BH video essays on here that discuss how they writers made it work, I just can't remember the points made myself!
Yeah I agree, I think BH is able to work because the supporting cast is what changes as a result of his actions, but in Helluva boss blitz isn't the only one not changing which kinda shoots that idea in the foot
To me it is because there's no payoff or acknowledgement to Blitz' flaws. His trauma kind of just exists, and usually gets used as a way to have the viewers sympathize with Blitz. "He's damaged but it's ok!" I'm sorry but no. People are gonna get tired of that writing eventually and at this point they have already!
BH tells you when Bojack is wrong. HB tells you why you should feel sorry for an asshole
@@SodaFrizz666 SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE ONES IN THE BACK!
I love this critique, at a time when everyone seems to hate something because is popular it's very refreshing to see this kind of takes
@@SoyUnaManteca Thank you!!!
The biggest thing the characters sit down and ask What did I do wrong?
They ask them selves or their associates.(or weird sinners that keep popping up) targets.
How to fix helluva boss: kill stolas
NOOOOO HES MYY FAVORITEEEEE
I mean say what you want but a major aspect of Helluva boss fans saying they'll jump off a bridge if Stolas divorces or if it became Fizzblitz and Stolaggo / Stolas x BTB was insane.
Like yall have a hate boner for a fictional character not liking a ficitional psycho who is himself a aborted main pilot antagonist who themselves have the fandom going "OMG, i flipping hate stolas, what a predator" "omg fr" "btw here is my stolas femboy hooters with buldge fanart as Blitzo lovingly shoots anyone else who tries to date that PSYCHO PIECE OF @!##!" next to "here is my stolas fic and "Stolas is ran over by a car while I inherit all their money as they're shanked in prison and i inherit 25 million dollars fanfic and HE STILL OPPRESSES ME" fic.
Like the fandom really reads like 14-18 year old mental unwellness fic at times. People say that Stolas losing everythign he has, becoming a commoner, and having his daughter disown him is bad writing when it's literally what they literally asked for months ago when they asked for stolas to become a commoner, have his daughter disown him, and live life without money due to classism or whatever.
It's a fictional show and no lie the s0/s1 stolas relationship has so many "50 shades of gray should have the police called on them, not be a teenager's fantasy" kinda angles to it.
But like so much Stolitz fic feels like "this tall rich prince who has so much money and is top 10% oppresses me and i want them to be miserable and love only me as i throw them away repeatably and don't care if they live or die" Antics. It's like BRUH. do you guys just want the fictional character to be put in a ficitional sex offender registry or is it like a twilight / 50 shades of gray thing where you don't want the character 'arrested', you want to like have a fanfic character that fulfills your fantasy be oppressing you so one doesn't look like a questionable person for enjoying it, or is it a legit hate beam?
Cause you all give off these mixed signals of wanting Stolas to die alone and never find love, followed by screaming when he finds love, to wanting him to lose everything, to screaming when he loses everything, and now the scales at murder for some fictional character who supposedly can't date anyone else.
It's super bipolar.
@@Notyouraveragename Yeah, like with any fanbase that balloons to this size there are droves of people who write fanfic and can't land on a single opinion of a character. I'm a fan of him as a character, but not a fan of his character. I think killing him could be valuable to the story, albeit, it would make me sad.
@phils-a-mek6345 im sorry, but we just gotta put him down. it’s more humane * shotgun click *
@Notyouraveragename interesting, not really in the fandom so idk what goes on in there. just a causal who misses the horny bird man who liked global warming.
I really appreciate how fair you are it's ,so rare to find a critique of this show that is not full of hate.
I had a stroke reading this
@@phils-a-mek6345 sorry about that 😅
@@BrianDonato-ii1ek Lol no worries
after how much I hear "swears bad" hearing actual genuine well thought out critisim such as this feels like a nice breath of fresh air.
I think that Blitzø is starting to actually improve and get better, even if it's only in the ladt few episodes so far, the series did keep bashing Blitzø for his behaviour especially in Apology Tour (which felt like an uneeded episode in general as it just strung out a break up that was done perfectly in the end of the episode before) sorta made Blitzø feel incapable of change, like even after knowing he's the problem and wanting not to be, he still was the asshole, as that's what he thought of himself, the moment when he did actually start to change however was after Millie's heart to heart in Ghostfuckers, that didn't just remind him he was a problem but actually reminded him of his strengths as a character which felt much needed, and since then he sacrificed himself so Satan would spare his team, actually started trying to be a good partner to Stolas, and doing so much in Sinsmas just to help him out, even refusing a hit similar to what he did in Murder Family, is pretty late along the series but I am starting to see development, even in a lot of the other characters as well, I love how you can how Moxxie's gotten stronger in his rematch against Striker and Fizz's overly relatable arc in Mammon's Magnificent Musical, even Loona's starting to do just a tiny bit better from when she just didn't want to be involved in anything, not yet Stolas tho, he still seems to be at the point of realising he was the problem
prob rambled on a bit with this commet but feels nice to disscuss on of my fav shows
@@rysterproductionsdoinyurmom Thank you for your thoughts! I do agree that he has improved a little in the most recent episodes, but he has in previous ones and reverted. I hope this time his changes stick.
@phils-a-mek6345 agreed
Honestly yeah, it's a fictional show and one thing i feel like that Bojack did well is. Bojack was a product of abuse and so was Beatrice in lore, but they felt like human, even warts and all. Characters acted like real life human beings vs puppets or sockpuppets to speak out author desires, and i've heard some people call out Octavia as 'poorly written' for not feeling like she has a stable relationship with her dad or judging Stolas for attempted picking 'death by cop' rather than choosing to give her a stable life.
The show is made for viewership and a lot of attention is focused down on Stolitz as the main character relationship vs Moxxie and Millie and Asmodeus/Fizz or Blitzfizz / Stolago.
Because as some people said. "What would be the point of watching a 4 year built up ship blow apart in a explosive divorce?"
But recapping the video all in once, you do see this repeating pattern where again and again, S1 to S2, Stolas creeps on Blitz, Blitz rejects him, Stolas takes distance, Blitz meets him, they meet up again, then Stolas does something that makes Blitz explode. Blitz lashes out, their relationship falls apart. then they're back together the next few months without explaination, and it's repeated twice like a cuckoo clock.
I do kinda agree that it does feel like things often become way too heated in the fandom, maybe i've been a participant but i feel like there might be some problems with Blitz both kinda being a comedic psychopath + money robber but also portrayed as a poor victim who deserves unconditional love, leeway and forgiveness, while also running over orphan children because his coffee order was late. He's fun to watch but he's woobified a lot more than A invader zim who we know is meant to be cartoonishly evil lol.
But blitz is more on the intentionally psycho comedy /dark humor branch. It's not bad antics. But i worry about the kids who don't seperate cartoon vs fantasy.
On one hand it's a fictional comedy, but on the other hand, it kinda attempts to normalize / woobify potentially highly dysfunctional / problematic relationships. Many parts of Stolitz aren't built on clear consent vs M&M and Asmofizz and the show also dips it's toes in showing how Blitz is bubbly around Fizzblitz and professional (for show standards) around keeping fizz away from Mammon.
But he detonates like a bomb and Octavia is technically kinda a casualty of that. I get people roasting her for not having patience for Stolitz, asking them "Why were we never enough? why did you hate her more than you loved us, why did you choose him over me?"
But people roast like Stolas, a fictional character's whole purpose is to like, give money and !@# to another fictional character, and what they say vs how they act when they wanted a divorce and Stolas met BTB imp and the shippers exploded is a real head scratcher to me.
It's a fictional show and fiction != reality, and we all have our own irl stuff to take care of. But it does seem like many fans, both younger or old, project themselves into the characters, sometimes mildly, and sometimes extremely dramaifficly. I've seen claimed 13-18s alledgedly threaten to !@# other users over Loona X OC ships in discord servers or creepy comments like "i wish i could adopt loona at 17 so i could 'help' her as my 'adopted daughter " with galleries of nsfw reposts of them.
It's a fun series and it's clearly not meant for morals, but i kinda worry about the kids who can't seperate fiction from reality or copycat it. When violence/no consent is sugarcoated, a adult might go "oh, it's a fictional series set in hell", a kid who doesn't seperate it might fetishize or go 'screaming means they're enjoying it", or potentially land themselves in prison trying to 'be kool', and i just don't know. I'm not a moral puritan about most stuff and i remember halo being demonized as "killing aliens will make kids kill people!" but i've flat out seen some kids say they wanted to shoot their parents/teachers after helluva boss.. for wanting them to do homework, study for college.. or go to school... And idek what you do here.
BOJACK HORSEMAN FAN SPOTTED 😍🫵
I do agree. In fairness I do think the warning at the beginning of each episode is meant to deter them but it's for sure not enough
I feel like Blitz is changing. He connected back with Fizz and had a general one and one with him. His trying reconnect with Barbie. Learned that what his done was wrong. And his trying to be in an actual relationship. Also I believe Vivz knows how the shows ends. She said that show will have about 50 episodes. Overall my main problems with Helluva boss is some of the dialog, jokes, how their painting Stolas as this good character that has done nothing wrong, and how some characters rise, fall, rise again, then fall again, but expect that I love everything else about the show I love, the animation, the characters, and the songs. Even tho I disagree with that part of the video, I’m just that there’s a video that is just bashing of the show for no good reason, and sees that it’s not a bad show but it’s still have it flaws.
That's what I'm more so trying to get at. I really love the show and the talent behind it. It's just a shame the way that they do dialogue. My problem with blitz is that he has moments like that and then falls back into an undeveloped version of himself. He has made progress in a few relationships, but not as a character if that makes sense.
Another creator and artist emerges.. how. Beautiful.
Yipee
I mean, Blitzø doesn’t do any more destructive behavior and most of the people he apologized to honestly didn’t deserve it.
His destructive behavior felt very present in Ghost F***ers to me, and I didn't see much room for it in the most recent two episodes. It definitely hasn't been happening as much, but idk, I haven't seen it get addressed more seriously yet.
@ : Oh don’t get it twisted. His self destructive behavior was very clear in Ghost Fuckers. But after that episode he stopped.
And another thing, change isn’t something that happens over night.
@@TrentGaines 100% agree
Why is this video underrated? 😭🙏
THANK YOU
Okay, you just straight up not explained how to actually 'fix' Helluva Boss.
Have the characters make progress towards their goals and have a plan for character development. Helluva boss feels stagnant because the characters keep being reset after every huge emotional beat.
@@sarcophiliac That isn't an explanation either.
9:40
@@Catwhumanears That's it?! That's nothing, no actual elaboration, just a vague statement about character progression or something.
Like, not even an example at how this is supposed to look like?
This was great! I’m thankful that you provided a nuanced take on the series that I pretty much agree with! So many people in the fandom either defend it with their lives or become way too callous with the hate towards the show. One thing though is that I do think Blitz’s repeated breakdowns kind of make sense in the show for his character just based on my experience with real people.
I can think of one ex-friend that would have lots of random moments of self awareness that he’d discuss with me, only to return to lashing out at random points. It kind of makes me feel that his journey to being a healthy person is going to have these kinds of bumps along the way, but there will be some slow progression throughout this. Just not linear!
However it’s characters like Octavia that I’m really worried about. Two of her writers (Viv and Brandon) have admitted that they don’t like writing her, and it’s clear from most of her appearances that she isn’t cared for as a character. It’s always the “I hate my dad to aww he makes mistakes and that’s ok” arc which keeps repeating throughout the series until the finale. I really hope they do something with her character beyond just forgiving Stolas.
Me too. She has potential to call Stolas out for his poor behavior and choices. I love the character but he has made very poor decisions and not seen an repercussion for it up until the Finale.
This show kills me the most because of how long I’ve followed Viv and her work. She writes as she goes and she picks favorites of her characters and bends the plot to serve whichever one she likes the most at the moment. The longer this show goes on the more it feels like a hell specifically made for Blitzø because the showrunner decided he’s always wrong, even when he grows, changes and becomes better. It doesn’t make sense. He does bad things towards the beginning of an episode just to justify breaking down at the end. He behaves in a sacrificial way in one episode and then the show pretends it never happened in the next. Meanwhile Stolas becomes worse and worse and is lifted up by the narrative.
Agreed!
Helluva Boss definately feels like its more written for straight audiences unlike Steven Universe which feels like it was more written to actually represent the target queer audience/normalize queerness to the audience. Helluva Boss also mainly has its production value in terms of animation because of hiring a bunch of new and passionate freelance animators that are fans of the series and than those freelancers immediatly leave because of the poor working conditions at the studio.
So I just wanna say with the Steven universe thing Steven owes spinel NOTHING. She was hurt by his mother and decided to take that out on a 16 year old child. He had no responsibility to Spinel and shouldn’t be required to support her because of his mother’s action that’s literally spelled out in future. Like he talks other cause his powers are fucked and she’s been exhausting him and now he’s expected to be her number one support system and best friend? Like the way you spoke about it to me is putting a lot of responsibility on a child
Not at all, Steven is still a child, but my point was that he chose to resolve the conflict by saying he would support her, but then he turns around once her problems have been "resolved" and abandons her again (the trauma that started this in the first place). Her trauma wasn't his fault, but his faulty promises were.
@ but it’s like she was trying to kill him. He wasn’t just abandoning her. He was trying to focus on making sure the earth didn’t die and she was like no we need to focus on my emotional state right now. That’s also not his problem. In my opinion that’s holding Steven to a standard that is unfair. Like she was actively trying to hurt him and his friends. It makes sense that his first immediate thought after talking her down from killing him isn’t let’s make sure she has a good support system and is let’s make sure she doesn’t kill everyone.
@@Remelia-co2ej That's fair
I assume someone out there might've seen my comments before and are tired of me bringing it up, but I'm gonna mention it anyway. There's this fantastic Helluva Boss fanfiction that you need to read (it's technically also Hellaverse since it slightly crosses over with Hazbin Hotel and the cast of that show play a bigger role later in the story), called "Shadows Over Hell." It's on Archive of our Own and is both a friendship drama between Loona and Octavia and a lovecraftian horror epic filled with references, homages and elements from the Cthulhu Mythos (I'll get more into this in a minute, but this was coincidentally written long before "Seeing Stars" came out where Azathoth is seemingly an actual, canonical entity which raises a lot of questions). Despite this being about Loona and Octavia, no one gets sidelined in favor of those two like what the show does with Stolitz, everyone gets an arc and plays actual roles in the story. The author was very passionately vocal online about things like not seeing more of Loona and Octavia being friends, Octavia being reduced to her daddy issues when there's so much more that can be done with her and how Stella has been reduced to a one-dimensional antagonist. The fanfic explores all of that. Ironically, Octavia doesn't have daddy issues in this, but instead has conflicts both with Stella who's overly controlling, along with the expectations of being a Goetian princess and not having any freedom to do what she wants and be happy. Octavia has more going on, we see more of her personality, her interests, just so much more than the actual show. Stella eventually becomes a more sympathetic and complex character later on where we learn her backstory, what she's like on the inside and she even tries to improve herself as a person later on (she even gets an awesome moment at the end that truly shows how much she loves her daughter, how much she's grown and essentially saves everyone). The author intentionally wanted to make the relationship between Stolas and Stella realistic and reveals that despite it being an arranged marriage, the two really did love each other at one point and they still equally love Octavia as their daughter and they eventually made peace together by the end. Because of the time that it was written, the story has some outdated elements and some creative liberties with Hellaverse (Bee isn't Vortex's girlfriend, Lucifer is a very sadistic character as opposed to the adorkable rubber duck loving dad we know him today, hellhounds breathe fire for some reason, Charlie Morningstar is Octavia's penpal/cousin and the only person in Octavia's life before she met Loona who was genuinely kind to her and helped her through rough times [she was also the only person Octavia was happy to see at her birthday party], Vaggie is still a moth sinner and possibly others). Coincidentally, the story ends on Christmas (though instead of Sinsmas, since that wasn't a thing yet, they celebrate Krampusnacht, a real European holiday that revolves around Krampus. Of course, Krampus is just as jolly as Santa Claus and is able to grant wishes [though nothing like the movie obviously]), with M&M revealing to everyone that Millie is pregnant, but it's treated as a heartwarming moment. Though the story ends on a bittersweet note, it's much more optimistic, heartwarming and hopeful than Sinsmas ever was (I really needed to go back to that penultimate Krampusnacht chapter after Sinsmas left me crying). Ironically, only days after the fanfiction was complete, Beelzebub's debut episode came out, and the author later on made a soft, thematic prequel that focuses on Beelzebub (the author _loves_ Bee and is one of their new favorite characters). Though, don't let my comment fool you into thinking the story is all sunshine and rainbows or that the drama extends to slice of life stuff. It's also a horror story that gets pretty intense and horrific, especially once the horror plot truly kicks in (the author isn't even afraid to throw in horror scenes out of nowhere in an otherwise heartwarming or uneventful chapter). I'm not kidding when I say that it gets intense and the author truly understands Lovecraft's writing and that doesn't just extend to references and fanservice.
@@troin3925 That sounds so good, I’ll definitely check it out! Thank you for recommending it!
@@phils-a-mek6345 You're welcome!
@@phils-a-mek6345 I forgot to mention that it's a very long read, but it's worth it.
@@troin3925 Duly noted
This whole thing sounds hella interesting 👀 I'd be down to check it out... if it weren't for the horror stuff and bittersweet ending you mentioned. I already got rather fucked up by Threadcutter, the Hollow Knight fanfic, idk if I wanna take my chances with this one
The biggest problem that comes out of not knowing your ending is when you change course and ignore the fact you changed course. You can't just ignore what you previously wrote, which is what they're trying to do with Stolas
Which makes me wonder how the fuck it was written. Usually you write your first draft, smack that down on the paper, then make your outline of big story points.
But it seems like this show is going off of a first draft. Some shows do get written as they air, but this show has no guidance.
From what I’ve seen in interviews with Viv, Helluva Boss is written WELL in advance. I may be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure she said “We were working on season 2 when season 1 started airing.” And I’m pretty sure she also said she knows how the show is going to end, but I don’t remember that for sure, so I’m not putting any quotes. My guess is the writers are well in to writing season 3, hell, they may have even started animating. So realistically, the only way this show can be “fixed” is if they already started doing so.
I just started watching Helluva Boss after the release of Mastermind so please - don’t eat me alive
I'm gonna eat you alive. I haven't heard that interview, so my assuming that is the case is more than likely wrong. Despite their planning though I do feel like they are writing the episodes without much thought for progression in mind.
@@phils-a-mek6345 I definitely agree with that. I feel like most of season 2 was focused on characters back stories rather than making any real progression towards anything. and that's definitely what Blitz's breakdowns felt like, especially the one is Ghostf**kers. And I think that's one of the show's biggest issues, too much backstory, not enough progression
The point of the half-hearted apologies in Apology Tour is twofold: first it lets Blitz work his way up to the one apology that really matters to him, the one to Stolas, and second it’s a fairly petty take that showing Stolas that he can so apologize by apologizing to everyone. That Stolas doesn’t accept the apology shows both that Stolas still needs to get over hurt feelings and that just because you try something doesn’t mean you succeed, but it does help patch things up with Verosika.
To me the problem with these last few episodes is Blitz and Stolas feelings changed way too quickly. One episode we’ve got a one sided affair where Stolas wants to bone Blitz but Blitz wants nothing to do with Stolas and then suddenly we have Blitz chasing Stolas and Stolas wanting nothing to do with Blitz. It just doesn’t feel organic.
Verosika was spiteful and a hypocrite in that episode
Yeah I agree. The show episode to episode feels very disjointed. I feel like I get whiplash watching them back to back.
Oh hey a video above a Vivzi show that's actually reasonable that's incredibly rare.
I get the complaints HB gets and I can't blame people for not liking it (ya know if they aren't a dick about it). I just enjoy the show because I like the characters and find comfort in animated shows with heavy lgbtqa+ characters/themes. It's ultimately a comfort show I hyperfixate on because I am internationally still an edgy, quirky queer teen even though I'm 25
Real af
I don’t know if you’re going to read this but I disagree that an unplanned ending cannot be good.
(Also as a former Steven universe fan, while I may have mixed opinions on the show I don’t agree with your assessment of Steven’s character)
Take adventure time which has numerous changes and retcons throughout its seasons. However its finale is incredibly satisfying. But even after the finale multiple continuations have come out to critical acclaim.
Gravity Falls creator Alex Hirsh has been open in that the series finale wasn’t planned out. Bill was just a joke between the animators before being added into season 1. Even after the first season they weren’t sure if they wanted him to be the big bad.
Even your example of Mha, its creator has confirmed that his original vision for the story was changed as he worked on it over the years.
I think your segments on Helluva boss are good. I definitely agree it suffers from major flaws when it comes to the writing.(personally the tone issues stand out to me)
You're 100% right. I was really misinformed with my comments on SU. I pinned a comment of someone correcting me, they did a great job explaining the situation that I was unaware of. It is also wrong of me to imply the blanket statement of "an unplanned ending is always bad" because absolutely there are cases where the story works out because of that. I do however think there is more risk in losing your story if you don't have one in mind. A great example of what I'm talking about is the FNAF lore.
@@phils-a-mek6345
Hey thanks for responding!
I definitely agree with you that a bad unplanned ending can be pretty obvious! I really did enjoy your video, I especially like the tone of it, a lot of other reviews are incredibly harsh on the series and its creator and while I don’t exactly have a great opinion on her, they often feel very overblown and downright awful to the creator. I have major problems with helluva boss and I’m glad you put out this review. It’s an incredibly fair take on the series and I’m grateful you took the time to read my comment.
@@ashrub1506 Thank you!
While i dont like the show i think anyone is valid for disliking it, aslong as they arent being bigoted or homophobic as an excuse for its issues and not the writing being somewhat poorly managed.
To give some of my bigger critique i just cant enjoy the tone probpems the show has, like hazbin hotel they will show abuse and trauma being awful things people shouldnt have to deal with or they deserve sympathy for going through- while also making r*pe jokes with people like pensious, its awful because the care isnt being applied to everyone, if they are going to treat abuse and trauma as serious topics they want to explore they cant take a step back and allow another less important character to have those same things happen to them and not get any screentime or care put into that joke.
A lot of the characters are 1 dimensional, i wish i could like stella but shes so unironically just a bitch that she has no personality or character to care about, shes dealt with stolas cheating on her but nobody cares because shes just an angry owl lady we are meant to hate because they dont give attention to the fact she has valid reasons to hate her husband, theres so many plot threads they could take if stella was angry at stolas not because he cheated but because he did it with a lower class making it a class issue, she could hate stolas because he cheated in general, she could hate stolas because of the fact it was an arranged marriage and maybe she is bi leaning towards the lesbian side, i love stella and stolas as an idea for a story but stolas just becomes the sad man that needs a hug and stella just wants him dead because shes evil, its boring and so run of the mill and its the best example i can think of that shows how flat the characters have been and will continue to be
(P.s. good video, i didnt want to bring in the drama with vivzie herself but i will make a note that i am against supporting her financially, anybody who took the time to read this if you like the show please support fan merch instead of vivzie directly)
W video, couldn’t agree more
Thank you
The fizz parts don't count because that's past mistakes that he is actively trying to fix in the present not him just now figuring out that he's does bad things
Same with the sister picture
Isn't bad at all but they should have been changed immediately after those scenes towards those specific problems
This part when he says he wants to change of the party was too much tho
Like that is extremely repetitive
I can understand the Fizz thing being a situational claim, but I think you got my point of hearing that a lot without much behavioral backing
I mean it's a old horse trope to beat over Helluva boss, animation takes years, and even as a critic, it is fair to note that it's a beautiful indie animation with a psycho fanbase and very psycho bojack level fan mentalities. I never noticed how many times the characters development seemed to 'reset' month to month when watching it all in a month. But having you point it out, how it took years just to repeat itself is definitely a major point in the show.
It's just fiction but every small moment from Bee going "Hey, your father is intentionally getting drunk and making messes on purpose to get attention and intentionally self sabotaguing, are you uh, sure you shouldn't check on him?"
And the fanbase going "STOLAS IS A BABY, OMG WHAT A BABY, I WANT HIM DEAD/SHANKED losing ALL HE has, he should never date anyone again, he's a S-X offender and i want him arrested and jailed and the show is ruined UNLESS he gets killed, but don't let him divorce or them DATE ANYONE ELSE or i wil jump off a bridge. WHO wants to watch a show the main ship ends in divorce if it's FizzBlitz or Stolago / Stol/BTB?"
Like the show does feel like it responds, i criticized blitz's unhealthy development, but all that about hurting everyone then being a normal person not trying to make his problems about him when Stolas was Suicidal.
The show is beautifully animated, but it has like 14-19 year old warrior cats attempting to kill each other over the 1 girl / 1 boy cat drama. There's a crap ton of drama, the fandom calls characters sex offenders while drawing them in femboy hooters gears fantasizing about shooting anyone who tries to visit them, while drawing them in basically 'fantasy femboy' gear.
I flat out tried to tell the story to a friend once and they literally went. "What the hell is this, a true crimes documentary on a psychopath's wish fantasy?" to trying to go "well there's this fandom about two demons who love each other but express it via abuse and try to kill each other, but one demon says they hate the other, but the fandom says it's love", and idk.
The show is just a hot potato of tumblr writing and a tumblr overaged/underaged fanbase. I do feel like the writing could be better, but it's also much easier to say if a Beef wellington is under/overcooked inside than make a better one.
Helluva boss has beautiful characters, beautiful animations and scenes, especially for indie animation, but the writing is often like murder imps crying that someone they used or emotionally and physically neglected and nearly drove to self harm might want distance or feel bad when they wanted them tortured because ???.
And... people still complain when literally handed what they asked for, because it was blitz critical instead of blitz arresting stolas for... him believing a lie he used to rob him, while stolas was heavily drunk, intoxicated, rejected, pushed away, and nearly killed, and lost everything in his life.
Because he looked at a menu?? And/or used pet names a couple times? Or classism in, stolas cared about him vs cutting off Blitz employments, declaring he'd give himself a 1% bigger yacht, then deporting Millie and Moxxie's family to announce 2% higher shareholder bonuses?
All of these are great points! I think you should make a video with these ideas, it would do numbers!!! Also elite pull on the Warrior cats fan joke.
while i dont agree with the su opinion (NOT to say it isnt flawed it probably is but i am noatalgia blind) but the sentiment about helluva echoes alot of how i feel about it! I hadnt even realized how kny times blitzo had that sad music emotional beat
It's every episode fr
It's too late for that.
Unfortunately, I think you're right. Realistically they're already through with writing season 4 and or 5.
I haven't watched the full video yet (I'm almost half way into the video) but the frustrating part of the critiques/criticisms about helluva boss (that are completely valid) that no one is really considering is that the script for season 2 has been finished for a few years now. I don't really expect the fans / youtubers to know the animation pipeline but does anyone actually remembers the trailer for season 2 where episode 4 was literally still an animatic? And how long that take to come out? I think that's crucial part that's missing with critique videos on HB . Realistically, expecting immediate changes like tonal whiplash or pacing can't be fixed cause the team was still working on putting out episodes. The best bet is to wait till season 3, if not you can gladly drop the show which is fair
I totally don't expect changes until either season 4 or 5 because 3 is already in production. I don't mean to sound impatient with these potential changes, I'm sorry if my video comes off that way! The animation pipeline is something I should've mentioned, but I personally think that the animation is without flaw, it just for me, comes down to the writing and dialogue
@phils-a-mek6345 Oh no I didn't think you were mean at all, cause of my algorithm I would see HB critiques more often so I just felt that the topic that isn't really mentioned much so I felt people were expecting changes by the next episode which again isn't fair. Personally as far as critiques I want more engaging dialogue, better pacing and clever sex jokes
@@shammoi I absolutely agree, and I also could stand for better dialogue
Well, I think it’s also worth considering that Vivziepop often dismisses her critics as haters. I don’t think she’ll listen to criticism, because there’s still that huge community of people that are eating this up, despite how wattpad it is.
She’s got people enabling her faulty writing decisions, and those people will encourage her that any criticism is invalid.
@@spycenrice8108 I see what you're saying but you gotta remember as a creative you can only allow so much criticisms that it doesn't change the vision of "her" show. Yeah HB has tropes a good amount of them I can agree, she can def tone them down and that's the discernment she has to figure out which will be interesting to see in season 3 and onwards.
Oh! When you mention the character in this show is not grow or any development. It is a new take on criticism of this show
?
@@phils-a-mek6345this is either someone being genuine or another helluva hardcore fan being overly sarcastic because they hear the criticism and not the in depth explanation of the criticism and get offended.
To my very uneducated opinion based on the criticism of other media the biggest problem with helleva boss that the writers refused to kill their darlings, there are moments that are great... In a different context, but in this one it feels like misplaced
I one-hundred percent agree with you on the gap
When I was writing a script for a video (yes Im up and coming on this platform) My whole essay or (video) was based around the fact that Helluva Boss had so much potential through the pilot and a couple episodes in season 1, but it felt wasted as it left the casual, mainstream viewer aside. The reason I feel this way is because it felt as if there was a drastic change in the show, it chose to appeal to the "die-hard" fans of the show and leave behind the mainstream casual viewers, and you will see this with the number of views constantly descending.
If I had one thing to say at the start of the show, I'd say: Potential
If I had to say one thing after 2 seasons of this, I'd say: Wasted Potential
MAKE THAT VIDEO PLEASE
@phils-a-mek6345 I'm trying to get it out by the end of the month, as long as all goes well that is. Lol, I'll check back with ya on anything. And I'm gonna keep watching your stellar vids in the process
@@FedoraNotFlorida Thank you so much! Ping me when you get that video uploaded!
@phils-a-mek6345 Ill make sure to do it mate!
this is so valid and i love it
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
@@phils-a-mek6345 no problem! checked out ur acc and u seen really underrated and awesome!
I hope that if Vivziepop sees this video, she sees it as constructive criticism and uses your criticism to improve to her show 👍❤
I hope so! I'd freak out if she took it negatively though.
remember me when ur famous philsamek
I like your video because is very reasonable criticism.
Most of the fans who enjoy this show a lot are actually conscious of some of the flaws the writing has. Some people however are overcritical of it, to a point that is very divisive and pointless as you say.
The only thing I disagree in your analysis is the development of Blitz. I think this is what the show does best. The point with Blitz is that even when he is sad crying in the couch there is nothing that says that he will work to change. It is until Apology Tour that he admits he has this issue, expecting him to change after Truth Seekers is not what the writers intended (WELL, I THINK...).
My opinion is that Blitzo´s development timeline is this one:
S1E6: The intention of the episode Truth Seekers was to introduce to us to Blitz´s internal world. We already saw him being super rude and a bad person to the people he loves, but here we begin to understand why. We don´t even know how much of this bad trip Blitz´s remembers later, they never talk about it because this was for us and not for them.
S1E7. In Ozzie´s actually I never expected him changing but the opposite. In that episode he thinks there is a confirmation that Stolas is embarrased of him in public, and only sees him as an object for sex. There is no motivation for him to change there, because he thinks nobody will love him and he will end up alone anyway, no mattter what he does. This is why in episode 8 he behaves worse. This is him getting worse and not improving.
S2E6: Recovering Fizz will help him to be better in the future, but here we see that he still has unsolved issues. When he tries to make the hug between him and Fizz sexual he is still clearly uncomfortable with intimacy and being open and vulnerable with others. Perhaps this episode would have fill better later, but I feel that interrupting the final Stolitz arc with S2 with this would felt anticlimactic so...
S2E9: Apology Tour is he finally admitting that he has a problem. He needed to lose Stolas to be forced to admit this. Their breakup was necesarry. In the begining of the episode he is the same as he always is, because he fell again in his pattern of self-sabotage. He doesn´t actually want to apologize to those people. Until he hears Stolas sing the song he touches rock bottom, and when he talks to Verosika is like when an addicted person admits that has a problem, but hasn´t actually changed that addiction.
S2E10: Until Ghostfuckers is when his healing starts, when he is openly supported by a true friend who sees his vulnerability. Here we can see all the moments that hurt Blitz feelings. He wants to intrude MyM´s relationship because he feels ignored by them, he feels excluded when they hug each other and they don´t check on him if he is fine, or they don´t include him. He fears they will go and leave him alone. He also regrets all his mistakes in his relationship with Stolas, and realizing too late that the relationship was real.
S2E11: Here Blitz completes his transformation. He sees that Stolas truly loved him, because of the sacrifice he did. He wasn´t just infatuated nor he just wanted anyone´s attention. Stolas loved HIM even after seeing his worse side. For the first time in Blitz´s life someone stood by him after he did what he always does: shove people away, being mean with them bc he is not able to admit or accept their feelings etc etc etc...... Here also Loona expresses to Blitz her love with no filters. Other people admire him.
S2E12: In sinsmas is the first episode we see a different Blitz, the true Blitz without filters and bs. The impossible happened and he is getting a second chance with Stolas. In this episode we see a Blitz who: Is openly emotional and supportive, has completely let his walls down to someone, and was able to hug Stolas without the need to make it sexual (this was important because Stolas wasn´t ready, and show his grow in a clear way after what he told to Fizz), talked to Stolas about her sister, something we have never seen him doing, interact with M&M without feeling uncomfortable or left out, and after mastermind Loona changed with him and their relationship grew (I honestly would have liked to see this more developed, but it is fine).
I feel that this is the timeline of things the show was trying to convey, but it has a problem of execution and these things are not very understandable by themselves. Also, repeating the nightmare kind of thing in Ghostfuckers I get it that is repetitive and they could have used another resource for Ghostfuckers, and since the series has taken so long people expected everything to happen faster.
I started watching this series this year and I didn´t had those expectations, because I didn´t had all the time in the hiatus to think further about things and to have more expectation of see the characters change. If you see something during an entire day and the characters change less you don´t care, but if you have spent years the sensation is very different.
I think that ultimately, the people who like this show are the ones who decide to enjoy it, and for whom these flaws are not actually as detrimental to their enjoyment of it (I am not saying they don´t matter, but honestly this team receives too much undeserved hate, they are improving and they are just trying to create a story they love. Is flawed, but is it really that bad?)
I honestly hope that the new release schedule they are going to implement helps with this issue because they won´t need to have these emotional moments to get the audience hooked all the time. They will release the series in a more usual format, with longer waits between seasons and closely timed released episodes. I feel that this was a good desition on Medrano, because in this way she will be able to structure the narrative better.
@@MoRPho151 I do agree that his development has made some progress at points, but for me watching the show back to back it’s hard to watch him re-tred some ground. I tried really hard for this video not to read too hard into the writers intentions and especially their tweets or thoughts, and just take the show with all it had. I do think you make a great case though and really appreciated your comments! I also appreciate your proper use of grammar in a TH-cam comment section. I had a good time reading your thoughts!
I have watched every episode of this show and over time have just given up on it, me and my partner have almost said all the same things you have, and some more specific yet related topics. Such as character designs especially with the sins and how they seem to just be repetitive, or Milly not having really a character till, or Moxie forever being scared, etc. Most of the time i come to watch videos like these to get different takes, but they always lean on loving or hating the show, not truly being non-biased about it. A lot of the time this comes down to "HAHA that's the show in which they say cocks a lot" or the opposite side "this show has a rich meaning that is just being hated on because of the gayness" (both are meant to be exaggerative) and it is usually annoying. I like the world of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel but they both just are really lacking in different ways, and seem to not likely improve at all.
Unfortunately, I agree with you, to be fair the show started out as an episodic comedy, so stagnant characters would have worked just fine, but the pivot they made to character drama has really shot themselves in the foot because their characters aren't written for long term growth. That01gamer also left an amazing comment on this video that had good ideas as well.
Massively underated
Thank you!
To me, the moment a piece of midia and entertainment takes us out of the experience and puts us away from the world is when it fails.
Helluva Boss has many great moments that pulls you in, but is not tied well enough to remain investing or memorable. That is why I am so hard on this show.
Even if I believe Vivzie is an awful person, I wish her shows were good. Because is full of potential, but it lacks quality
That's what I'm saying!
Can you like provide proof of the Steven universe part? Was it said in some interview?
Yeah, I remember that being brought up in this video and I've combed through it a bit but couldn't find the clip: th-cam.com/video/flLEr_sYC-k/w-d-xo.html
Warning though he is incredibly harsh and biased on the show, but he makes some good points. He gets debunked on a lot of stuff as well, but not on the fan made ending I think. I could be wrong though.
@phils-a-mek6345 alot of this video is mis information.
(Lily does that often)
As well as a lot of other creepy stuff. (Not my place, many people have covered that)
I have made a VERY long comment about your Steven universe section which I hope you read.
--
There are tons of videos about her misunderstanding of writing. (Not about his creepy behavior but there are tones of videos talking about that too.)
Look them up. You'll be surprised.
@@Gevo-tube On it!
That's interesting, I've heard how bad these shows are, but beforehand, i was recommend to watch the first episode of Hastion Hotel (idk the name), the frist episode alone made me not watch it, it was fast paced, it felt like a jump from point a to point b so quickly i couldn't fully digest what just happened on the last scene, and I'm not really a fan of musicals in general, unless the tracks are catchy, in which i did hear some of it's soundtrack, i like it, I just tend to dislike charlkie xbox 360's song or Disneyish piano kinda things (also this came out of nowhere). But as i said, the writing felt very confusing, felt like three or even a season pushed into one episode, i understand that streaming has killed longer seasons but i get the feeling that if it had longer episodes, it would just be fillers. Just by that one episode i was able to just see the show's flow. Also the characters know each other already?? That was the most disappointing part about it, we didn't get to see how they met, how they connected, how they came to be trying to get rid of their sins or redeem, it's just they know each other, how do u start a show like that.
Within the other show, helluva boss, i didn't watch it, as it's too childish with it's swearing, the sexual jokes for my taste. It just felt like the show was aming or crated by a teenger themselves. I saw the critiques of these shows more than the actual show as it kept coming into my feed, it's entertaining to watch ngl, the show is flawed, but i the way critics and audience praise it is what caused it's downfall, I'm sure the creator is one of the reasons of it, but it's horrible writing, the constant praise, boring stick figure designs, shipping, and the the creator antics on twtter, its a perfect mix for hater to emerge.
I'm just someone who isn't all too familiar with it, so take me as an outsider, if an outsider sees flaws and sees how critically acclaimed it is, you get to question a lot of things of what is good and what's not good. (Ps. Why are fhe characters so skinny, it's giving twinks energy and I am getting tired of twinks representing LGBT community).
1:28-1:41 Vivziepop haters, take notes!
I love the show. I just want one thing to happen and I can't really see what other people see. So can you kind of like a little bit? Explain not in a video but like explain how it's bad. I mean, I kinda got it, but I still didn't get it. I mean the character concepts I get but still I did like your explanation. It did help me a little bit but yeah, like I'm if you about one thing and I'm if you about the other but I really hope the show can boost up. If not well, I might have to drop it still like your opinion though.❤❤❤❤❤❤
Yeah 100%! The main flaws I am seeing are repetitive character moments. I encourage you to "binge" the show. Episodes feel wonky back to back without months between them. I would encourage you not to drop the show though! There is nothing wrong with loving it despite it's flaws! Thank you for your comment!
@phils-a-mek6345 yeah I get it now the show does need a boost and some Characters have MORE character plot then the main character's do but yeah still I really hope they get better at writing because if not we all know what would happen and NO THANK YOU REALLY FOR YOUR COMMENT ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Im working on my own helluva boss rewrite, it will have stolas be a villain (although he is a good dad)
Blitzo and verosika get back together. In spring broken its tease they still care for each other. (They became more amicable after an original episode where verosika is forced to hire IMP as bodyguard). In apology tour, we get the flashback of how blitz and verosika met and get longer apology from blitz to her. (No half hearted apologies, more focused on blitz and verosika relationship). They get together in sinsmas.
Unhappy campers happens before harvest moon festival. Both episodes have more focus on millie and with flasbacks.
Loona and her friends get screen time. Also loona and octavia friendship get developed. (Loona and via met in loo loo land, no seeing stars instead an episode of loona leading a mission that via join in.)
Sallie may join IMP (who appear much more before hand) Hell's belles and the other shorts are full episodes.
Cherubs and dhorks have more episodes setting up by themselves and together
before a final battle with IMP. (2 eps for separate intro, 2 eps for developing each other and 2 for teaming up)
Stella backstory is that is the past, she was unknowingly an affair partner of another couple.
Stella never loved stolas, but she used a love potion on stolas just to have octavia. Because of her past, she was put on pressures to have a good relationship. When stolas cheated, she put all the blame on him and try to kill him to protect her and octavia.
She now believes she must save blitz from stolas, not wanting blitz to suffer a same fate. Also get to interact with blitz.
Striker get killed off by a new villain (my oc, i dont like striker, he worked better a minor villain). M&M do beat striker in a fight before his death.
Belphegor and Leviathan have episodes before mastermind.
Leviathan ep have stolas get called by verosika and stella for his actions and Leviathan comments on stolas envy for happy couple.
Belphegor ep is where the goat returns and accidentally summons her when trying to find blitz for help to fight the penguin.
Mastermind is a two/three parter. (A full proper trial and parts of sinsmas, stolas powerless and homeless)
Stolas and octavia do get to properly talk, but a spell is put on via to hate stolas.
Sinsmas end with stolas hired by blitz and friendzone by him, but Blitz atleast promise to help save octavia. Stolas get redemption in the next season.
When was Stolas a good dad?😭
@bouncy372 I will write him to be a good dad. Actually spending time with his daughter and teaching her magic
Where can we find your rewrite? It sounds interesting.
@@wchambers11 will let you know when I release it
@@wchambers11 coming in February on ao3
Im tired of people just being blown away by the pretty animation and ignoring everything else. The flaws are clear as day yet the fans are too mesmerized to even care causing them to lash out on people who disagree with them.
I keep seeing this said more than actual fans attacking anyone who disagrees with them.
I’m in the camp of ‘yes, you can be critical. Just don’t be surprised when anyone on the show’s side adds to the discourse.’
I don't like this show because of the questionable writing choices made and the fact that Vivziepop is an even worse person in real life. And yet I can't bring myself to completely hate it because of how fun it is to watch anyway, and it always makes me feel like shit, because I want to hate it with all my might, but I just... can't. I have fun dunking on it and I enjoy the many arsenal of celebrity voice actors Vivziepop brings with her to the show, but that's all the positives I can see from this. Otherwise, I wholewheartedly welcome any and all disappointment and failures the show brings with open arms, as this is all I expect from this show. They say that it feels fanfic-y, but even then there are Helluva Boss fanfics written way better than the canon show. I want to aspire to be better than her; to not repeat the same mistakes made in the show. I just wish thise missed potentials weren't always swept under the rug in favor of playing favorites with a fictional character you fell in love with, like that Greek myth with the sculptor and the Galatea statue.
Yeah, it's frustrating that a lot of her choices and actions can bring the show down, but I love that it has opened the creative door for so much talent in and outside of the show. I do think her excuse of it being okay sounding "fanfic-y" is just a bad cover for poor writing.
buh
gwuh?
Alan ituriel is not vizzie pop Alan ituriel is a good voice actor a creator and book creator and Alan ituriel is not creator of hasbin hotel and helvela boss, vizzie and her cast have been stealing audience from Alan and then people mistaken Alan ituriel for all of the stuff vizzie did also Alan ituriel dose not have graphic sexual, drugs etc stuff that vizziepop have done in her stuff mostly the sexual stuff is really not Alan ituriel's stuff, I am trying to point out vizziepop has ruin a lot people and Alan ituriel is not involved with vizziepop I am a Alan ituriel fan and as a Alan ituriel fan I am trying to explain right that Alan ituriel has nothing to do with vizzie pop vizzie pop is the mastermind of getting people confused and angry.
550th subscriber ehheeh
THANK YOU
@@phils-a-mek6345 YIPPEE!!!
Dude, it's only been two seasons.
While it's not perfect It's not that bad. Character growth doesn't happen that swiftly.
And moreover I think it's the audience that has the bigger issue. These people act like making animation is easy, it's not. It's difficult and it costs cash, not to mention, people expect characters to change within like two episodes or more and that's not realistic. And don't get me started on people obsessing with their fan theories...
I fully get where you're coming from. I know animation isn't cheap at all, I've dabbled in the field myself, so I apologize if my video came across that way. I do get that character growth isn't over night, but I have seen much personally since the show started. I have a hard time as well when shows like Dan Da Dan and JJK can showcase incredible character growth through dialogue and action in 2 or 1 season.
Honestly, I don't think you guys know how animation and writing works, and while the show isn't perfect (there's no perfect show), acting like "I would have done it better" seems like hollow reasoning to me, because what's stopping you from getting a group of animators together and making your own series or pilot?
While your criticisms are valid, and better done than most haters, I don't think you appreciate the awesomeness that is Helluva Boss because you think "I would have done it differently", but that's the point, it's not made by you, it's the story Viv and Brandon decide to tell, and that's fine.
I worry that this type of criticism will discourage young artists from creating new stuff if everyone is going to be like "if it doesn't meet my expectations, it shouldn't exist", especially considering how hard indie animation is.
I totally didn't mean this video to come off that way. I love Helluva Boss, it's the reason I wrote this, and my intro and outro were meant to encourage young or new creators to create anyway because like you said it'll never be perfect but it will still be loved. I'm sorry if my video sounded overly negative. While yes there are things I personally would do differently, the reason I didn't give my ideas on what actions the characters and story should take next was because I want Viv and her writers to do that. I know that they can do better and want them to improve the series. Thank you for your comment though!
@@phils-a-mek6345 Sorry if my comment came across as too negative or accusatory or even defensive.
I admit that I have had a number of encounters with people who try to "fix" the show, without even trying to enjoy it for what it is (Which they don't have to force themselves to do, if it's not their taste, they can just stop watching, but instead they prefer to become haters...), and the worst thing is that many of the things they are accused of as "bad writing" are things that I genuinely enjoy about the show, so sometimes it even feels like a personal attack on my tastes...
Again, your criticisms are valid and well-constructed, it's clear that you're not a hater who operates only in immaturity and egocentrism, although I don't agree with several things, it's more because we have different tastes, and that's okay.
Again, sorry for projecting my bad experiences onto you, if you want, I can remove the comment if it bothers you?
@@phils-a-mek6345 If you don't give them any ideas on what actions the characters and story should take how exactly are they supposed to improve the series?
@@Aural4444 No, don't remove the comment you are A-okay! I just wanted to make sure that you knew I wasn't trying to make it a personal attack. I love that you enjoy the show, and don't get me wrong, I do as well. I just want to see it grow and improve. You have good thoughts and your experiences are totally valid!
@@Anarcho-Bunnyist The reason I didn't is because I want to see what the writers would come up with. I was worried that if I included what I would do / my ideas it would come across as pretentious and like "I could do better." In all reality I could not lol.
ai sounding ahh voice
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Don't like it - do your own. You grifters only complain and never doing anything on your own.
I'm sorry if the video came off as hateful, that wasn't my intention. I love Helluva Boss and I wrote this out of love and a hope for higher expectations. In no way shape or form do I think I could do a better job.
@@phils-a-mek6345 I mean you don't have to apologize for everything, it's just the internet, it's okay for people to have different opinions vs meshing and i don't mind it.
I went through a people pleaser phase as a kid and i ran into issues years in where two people expected the world to revolve around them.. And then met the other. and try as much as you want, equality wasn't good enough for both, only them at the expense of the other.
Not saying there's a right or wrong and this can be a conflict ridden fandom, but as they say with the Man, wife and donkey story. You can try to please everyone only to get "Look at that man hogging the donkey, how negligent of his wife!" -> Man gives wife donkey -> "Look at that wife hogging the donkey! That man must be subservient/stupid!" -> both ride the donkey "They'll break that poor things back!" -> Neither use donkey "Look at them, so stupid and wasteful!" -> Couple carries donkey "WTF?!??"
Draw a line in the sand anywhere and some will agree, some will disagree, that's life, and it's okay not to spend it doing hop scotch.