Concerned about Balance in Monster Hunter Wilds? Don't be. Unless you think Capcom are idiots.

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 51

  • @acearistocrat749
    @acearistocrat749 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Okay, I'll push back a little on the critique from CaptainFynx. I can see where he's coming from in that if you remove buffs from HH (we're gonna exclude self-improvement here, because that probably won't transfer over from weapon to weapon in Wilds), HH removes a big portion of its niche. I don't think it's ONLY limited to Attack Up, or that HH all of a sudden becomes a viable weapon with it- it's things like being able to negate wind pressure against Kushala Daora, give yourself a resistance bonus, negate knockbacks, cure ailments, raise your stamina, etc. etc. I think the big draw of HH is that each songlist is personal and effective in different scenarios, if you take Sonic Waves to a fight vs. Diablos for instance, you'll keep it stunlocked half the hunt if you're good at keeping the song queued and playing it as it burrows underground-that's something a Pocket Horn couldn't replicate because they wouldn't have time to switch.
    But if you did take away its buffs hypothetically, which Capcom isn't really doing but whatever, I think it would lose a large portion of its niche and other weapons would excel at the other things HH does and outclass it-i.e. positioning, stun build-up, and bludgeoning damage. If a HH user went into a hunt with only self improvement, they'd still win it fine, though it would take longer... but not having the other buffs to play around with would be less fun, and they'd probably mess around with a different weapon and get a faster clear time. But that's weapon comparison which you mentioned later in the video, and it's kind of moot until we fully understand the form Hunting Horn is in Wilds.
    That's my perspective. I'm 524 hunts into Hunting Horn for Monster Hunter World since I've been maining it the last few months-compared to my 740 hunts with Bow, the weapon I used all throughout world before then. I still won't feel great at the weapon though until I can actually do some of the these Iceborne hunts without getting hit, but it's a lot more committal than Bow to say the least lol.

  • @xTiddi
    @xTiddi 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I can solo Fatalis now, I know it's not something to be proud of. But if there will come a time, that I cannot solo an endgame monster -- I'm okay with it, really.
    And for me, saying that Capcom balances around the meta is just wrong -- but let's say that's true. Even if you have full fatalis armor, end-game decos, augmentation, etc. Will this help you clear Fatalis? Yes. But you have to keep in-mind, that gearing up in monster hunter is just like 30% of the Hunter's improvement. A large chunk of improvement will come from experience, and skill development -- I would have to agree with the statement that "Capcom balances around experience rather than Meta".

    • @iixxion
      @iixxion  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This is the topic of a video that I'm trying to wrap my head around. I'd say it's a 90/10 split, but that sort of thing is really hard to measure. regardless, yes, your success is due to player skill above all else, and the build is just a nice bonus. what good is a "perfect" build if you don't know how to take advantage of it?

  • @fromhl7619
    @fromhl7619 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    He's cooking this week 💥💥💥

  • @Skarakas11
    @Skarakas11 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    While most people are concerned about the "pocket horn" possibility, I am very happy that a lot of the players will pick the HH and with some swings maybe actually try the weapon. I Just love the HH and maining it I know it's designed to play the songs frequently. Non-horn users are thinking it's viable to switch weapons, queue the songs play & encore then switch again to their main weapon to keep a buff for one minute, when they realize they are wasting time switching weapons mid-fight to pocket horn on the seikret is worse than actually hitting the monster , all the concerns will go away.
    But the possibility to go with two horns with different song lists, and maybe all melodies extended on one of them is just BONKERS man, imagine having atk up, def up, sharpness reduced or sharp regeneration, maybe sonic barrier, stamina or life regen all at the same time with some melodies extended? Blew my mind.
    I'm going dual HH for sure.

  • @TodaWars
    @TodaWars 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I agree halve. Pocket Horn is no problem.
    The overall balancing and the inherent desire to optimize the one thing you do or like.
    Some examples.
    First:
    The general base weapons stats kill time.
    (Iceborn) A hunt with lance takes 2 twice as long as most other weapons.
    Is it fun to play? Yes.
    Is it fun to farm with? Maybe (Since it takes uo that much more time.)
    Second:
    Gimick, clutchclaw.
    The dps lost for not using it is huge. (It is build around it.)
    The implemetaion of it sucks for some weapons. "HeavyWings" video goes in detail. This also limits your playstlye. It it posible to do all igniring the clutch claw. It is not resonable to take at least 30% longer on a hunter because of it.
    Third:
    Silkbinds, switchskills.
    Again you can do it all without using switchskills. See second:
    Fourth:
    Monsters:
    Fatalis and alatreon.
    To beat them you need to get good and get the best gear/elemental weapons. This is limiting your playstyle.
    You can beat alatreon with you pure raw dmg build. How much harder is it? How many more atempts will you need? Or do you quit before breaking it?
    (Rise/Sunbreak had no such gimicks. So i don't think they will come back.)
    Could wilds be balanced around the pocket horn?
    Unlikely.
    Could it be the best strat for fast kills?
    Posibly.
    What if?
    Kill time with x is 10 min.
    Kill time with y is 15 Min.
    Kill time with z is 20 min.
    And with use of the pocket horn kill time goes down to.
    x 8min. (20%) 2 min faster.
    y 12,45min. (15%) 2'15 min faster.
    z 18min. (10%) 2 min faster.
    There would be 1 posible problem. (Not the pocket horn.)
    The diference between x and z is to big. The pocket horn could bring it to an extreme.
    Now the psychological aspect.
    Both have the same task. (Grinding) Do v*w number of times.
    Does the task get borning over time?
    If yes you would want to swap away from z.
    Does the task take to long to complet?
    If yes, you want to swap away from z.
    Would the pocket horn make a huge difference.
    If yes, you would want to use it.
    You fight against yourself and your mind. restrictions can add fun and optimization is inherently limiting.
    The goal has to be for balancing to make it less inticing to limit yourself for time sake. (Clutch Claw and silkbind to a lesser degree.)
    If that is not achived players feel the need to limit themself to progress or knowing they "waste more time then needed." Which results in less fun and satisfaction.
    I personally would bind the pocket horn to the Maestro Skill. To limit the possibility for it to be exploited. (Be it song duration or what kind of songs transfer.) That would help overall optics. Since the buff provided could add a bigger boost to some weapons than others. (The problem if the bigger boost is to the already "better/faster" weapon.) Casuals would also know then that such an interaction is a thing in the first place.

    • @herusetiawan5399
      @herusetiawan5399 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Where did you get the data? Any decent Lance users will finish the quest in timely manner, not twice as long as other weapons. Also I don't count those Lance speedruns that hide behind smoke then poke poke infinitely here. Just the regular play will do.

    • @TodaWars
      @TodaWars 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@herusetiawan5399 fair enouth is should not have mentioned weapons specifically.
      Speedruns show the "peak" of possibly. What is faster "better". (I don't know much about sunbreak.) This does not translate 1 to 1 to casual. It show a tendeciy.
      The fact will be an average hunt with x will be faster with y.
      If the difference is to big it is a problem.
      For iceborn tenderizing gives you ~30 more damage on the hitzone.
      Not including wallband damage and the free downtime to hit the monster.
      Overall this was more of a theoretical post. To see where a problem could be with the pocket horn. For that i have to mention regular balancing first. Any outside buffs, skills and song could make the difference and problem bigger.

  • @TheAdventuresofSparrowBraun
    @TheAdventuresofSparrowBraun 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    "Unless you think Capcom are idiots" 🙊

  • @TubeTAG
    @TubeTAG 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So long as I can still poke and charge, I’ll be quite happy to keep on Lancing.

  • @healexhelixvideos4680
    @healexhelixvideos4680 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Well, you just earned this Horn Main's sub. Also loving the "What do casuals know that YOU don't" series, as those videos align with that I've long felt with regards to the "meta" culture.
    Let's get people to learn to play this series as Co-op again, not as a group of lone wolves!

  • @marcoasturias8520
    @marcoasturias8520 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Imo, as long as the game isn't requiring to do frame perfect BS like counters or unique dodges, it's fine. With a 30-50 timer you can use almost any build and beat hard quests as long as your team and/or you are competent enough.

    • @kyleo8688
      @kyleo8688 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Maybw it will

  • @Beltorchika12
    @Beltorchika12 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Then there's Icerbone lance, which requires very optimized builds for both Alatreon and Fatalis (and AT Velkhana) if you want the solo hunts not to be a nightmare.

    • @chrishandsome7012
      @chrishandsome7012 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I simply must disagree, I have a friend who plays a lot of lance but he doesn’t have a very optimal build whatsoever, and yet he’s completed all of thise fights with one

    • @Beltorchika12
      @Beltorchika12 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@chrishandsome7012 What build? Then again I didn't say it was impossible, just a nightmare.

    • @chrishandsome7012
      @chrishandsome7012 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Beltorchika12 He would mostly run a typical lance build, offensive guard, critical eye and such, but also he ran with Ghili Suit and heavy artillery. He essentially used as much of the siege equipment as possible, wallbang spammed, and learned which attacks he can viably counterattack.

    • @Beltorchika12
      @Beltorchika12 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@chrishandsome7012 Yeah, that makes sense. I'm assuming he wasn't using fatalis gear/lance, right? Because I'm speaking mostly as a pre-fatalis gear user.

    • @chrishandsome7012
      @chrishandsome7012 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Beltorchika12 He used Alatreon weapon I believe, just in order to do all that dragon damage Fatty is weak to

  • @Youtubian392
    @Youtubian392 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Capcom doesn't balance at all.
    Adding retocks to the game made balancing borderline garbage. Nobody runs a single set without Health boost. Games are broken and Capcom doesn't know how to solve them because they refuse to take a little power away from the hunters. Quality of life isn't and hasn't ever been free. Every "quality of life" change causes a cascade if effects in the philosophy of the games. Like maxed out sets with maxed out elemental resistance with a solid understanding of the fight. Still carting in 2 hits
    It's ridiculous. Not good design.

  • @robertomacetti7069
    @robertomacetti7069 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Why should I be concerned about something who has always been shit and thus I know for a fact it will be shit once again as always?

  • @aracari
    @aracari 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ooo I ended up in this one. Is there any footage of a dev taking on one of those end game hunts? I'm actually curious about how the devs play those hunts, because I've seen how they play in the wilds showcases and yeah they aren't optimized very much. They have more important things to do obviously (like actually make a game) so I don't expect that level of proficiency out of them, but at the same time I want to see just what they can do on those tough quests just to see how well your point holds up.

    • @herusetiawan5399
      @herusetiawan5399 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You haven't watched any MHR Sunbreak Developer Challenge videos?

  • @themeekkat
    @themeekkat 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    That first comment is more for iceborne than it is sunbreak. You can fight every single monster in Sunbreak without needing to hyper specialize your gear. It only becomes more necessary once you get to special investigations. You don't even need birds until you get to specials (assuming you upgrade your armor and use armor skills. Which is another thing quite a few don't want to do)
    As for the claw, heavy wings made a great video on it with data but most disregard it for feelings.
    Special investigations are just optional. You don't have to fight them or grind to them. Still the same monsters you fought before. And even then you still have lots of tools to help out (followers, pets etc)
    But as you, IIXXION, said, not many people make it to specials. Not too many people have the skill or build to actually fight a Special Investigation Shagaru on a 25 - 30 minute time limit.
    (Imagine if they made special investigation risen shagaru the first and only quest encounter you have with him.😶)
    Then I'd agree.

  • @NotFunnyD
    @NotFunnyD 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I mean it fits thematically in universe too. The hunters guild only gives special permits to the most exceptional hunters. There's no way they'll see a hunter struggling with diablos, and give them clearance to hunt alatreon or fatalis. That's the whole purpose of urgent quests and why you gain access to a whole new tier of monsters. You've proven yourself more capable of handling greater risks😂

  • @tzera_rhuon
    @tzera_rhuon 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Balance is not something that needs to exist in a non-competitive game. Would I be happy if my IG were as busted OP as a longsword? Sure! Yet I happy main an 'inferior' weapon because it's what I most enjoy playing.
    The only time this would be an issue is if a player is actively kicked from a group due to their weapon choice, and I've not seen that outside of hame runs.

  • @DarkZemX
    @DarkZemX 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great Video, I don’t doubt that people can run to the side lines and speed through a specific buff for their mates and switch back, but in that time frame during tougher battles you are decreasing dps and that doesn’t mean you won’t be targeted while buffing. Now with the new HH AOE dps zones a full hunting horn main would be causing much more damage While stacking on Multiple buffs. I think they were smart about the play style of hunting horn and the possible Pocket horn folks out there which is why a full HH would be much more Valuable and deadly with the addition of the sound wave bubble zone effects!
    Will the Pocket horn user never be under the fire of an onslaught attack? The idea of Pocket HH is easier said than done while also being lackluster. I just don’t think it will fair well for people in the long run depending on the difficulty of the game.HH is super fun managing combat and constant buffs(Bards are the best).

  • @kwamedwards
    @kwamedwards 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A big point about balance that might be worth discussing is, should everyone be allowed to complete all content? A lot of the assumptions from comments are based on whether you believe the answer is yes or no. Those who believe the answer is yes might want the end game balanced around average players where as those who think different might think the end game should be balanced around the top 10-20% or whatever. If two people have two different visions on who the end game is for of course they are going to disagree on balance issues.

  • @TwilightWolf032
    @TwilightWolf032 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    "and not use clutch claw."
    Why wouldn't you use the clutch claw? It's there to be used.
    What's the argument he's trying to make? I don't understand! All monsters in Iceborne are made to encourage the use of the Clutch Claw by softening the parts and slamming the monsters into walls for massive damage, especially Fatalis that requires two horn breaks for the reward and to reduce the breath attack power.
    What is he trying to convey with "and not use clutch claw?"

    • @kilowhiskyforge4337
      @kilowhiskyforge4337 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I can understand what youre saying as well. I truly hate the clutch claw, I actually hate that, as you said 'the monsters are made to encourage its use'. That idea is basically saying that I dont get a choice and is forcing me to play the game in a way I dont want to. I play base Rise right now without cohoot or palamutes and it only took realizing how OP the dash-breaker silkbind skill is for me to even start using silkbind attacks. IMO monster hunter is a game you can play anyway you want to, when they designed monsters around a mechanic then my agency has been removed.
      Fun fact: the reason i dont play MHW online is I NEVER EVER soften, i'm too busy hunting and fighting to think about whether or not I have enough time to stop what im doing, try and clutch onto the part I specifically want, hope im in range, time it so the monsters attack doesnt knock me off, and then hope my timing wasnt off enough to get hit with the follow up afterwards. IMO.
      Edit

    • @TwilightWolf032
      @TwilightWolf032 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@kilowhiskyforge4337 I have a few issues with your argument.
      The situation you described is only relevant if you play the game OFFLINE, where you have to manage softening the parts by yourself. When you're playing online, other players will do it for you, everybody does.
      This idea that "your agency has been removed" also baffles me. You can totally kill monsters without using the clutch claw, you'll just be choosing to not get the advantages it promotes.
      The reticle tells you when you are in range, by changing color to orange when in range and being greyed out when too far away.
      The Clutch Claw is a mechanic like any other that becomes second nature, and similar to any other mechanic like doing combos, dodging/defending, switching ammo, placing traps, countering, drinking potions, healing teammates, using explosives, etc., you still have to think about how and when you'll have to use the tools at your disposal for a successful hunt.
      Monster Hunter isn't a series about just being on the attack all the time, it's a game about strategizing and knowing how to best utilize the environment and tools you have!
      The down time you described is nothing more than the price you pay for the benefits the Clutch Claw will bring you, just like the downtime of placing a trap, or the down time of drinking a potion, or even the down time of sharpening!
      I'm sorry, but the more I think about the arguments you made, the more holes I find in your logic! I meant for this to be a two paragraphs response, not this many!

    • @TodaWars
      @TodaWars 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@TwilightWolf032 It is there to be used. Agree.
      The implementation of it is bad and not fun on some weapons. You could say must. Since ice is balanced around using it. Using it and the stagger it added breaks the combat flow you have. (Depending on the weapons more than others.)
      Since it is balanced around it. Your quest's clear time will be significantly impacted.
      No weakness exploit.
      No free damage from a wall bang.
      No free damage from the monster downtime after a wall bang.
      No improved hit zones.
      Not using is stupid. If you take at least 30% longer for a quest now.
      Is it fun. That depends on the player.
      Is it good that the intended way to play is now clutch claw and then seeing only the monster in rage? I doubt that. There are many details and attacks monster change while not enraged that you now no longer will see.

    • @kilowhiskyforge4337
      @kilowhiskyforge4337 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TwilightWolf032 i wasn't making an argument though, and the only issue i have with your reply is that my statment on 'agency being removed' is a statement based on the OP's presumption that the monsters stated were designed with the clutch claw in mind from the start. This is an idea that I disagree with for the same reason ixxion made and stated in this very video.

    • @kampfer91
      @kampfer91 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I see most argument for hating clutch claw with a passion always boil down to " Muh DPS loss " and too awkward to use . As casual player however i didn't see much issue , not like i am speed running a quest , i only concern about not using too many heal items and have to look cool while fighting monster , clutch claw just tick that box cus i get to plunge my blade onto monster skin , heck one time i even made a lance build centered around clutch-counter .

  • @massette43
    @massette43 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Realizing I don't know what "the meta" is. To me, balancing around the way that people with hundreds of hours play _is_ balancing around the meta, and discouraging playing GL without clutch claw is a negative impact of that meta on game design.

  • @soulezwan266
    @soulezwan266 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    true that, fata probably be the only min max you need to do but than again... once you understand it that be thrown out the window. i thought it was funny when they ask the dev to play gunlance because it was bad but 20 minutes aint that bad, i never look it up because i dont really watch dev stuff n i wanna go in blind. prob just watch all those short trailer thats it.

  • @herusetiawan5399
    @herusetiawan5399 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I want to believe that HH users who whine about the pocket horn are just a loud minority. Or worse, they're not even a HH user in the first place.

  • @jcc4543
    @jcc4543 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    They need to optimise first before that

  • @cristianalfonso7594
    @cristianalfonso7594 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    subbed instantly

  • @chrishandsome7012
    @chrishandsome7012 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really am tired of the majority of people I talk with holding this opinion that all your hunts have to be 5 minutes >

  • @chewbacachunks8644
    @chewbacachunks8644 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    There is no way in hell the dev team would ever balance their end game around pocket horn in wilds. 0% chance of that happening. Pocket horn will likely not be as good as people are worried about.
    I play horn in MHWI it's one of my most played weapons. You definitely don't need attack up songs to do well with horn. Do I play with almost exclusively horns that have attack up? Yes. But that's because I'm a filthy little dps whore that likes to see the big numbers. That's just how I like to play the game. I optimize for damage because getting really good at the game, and getting those kill times down is fun for me. But you don't have to do that. In fact, after I beat Alatreon for the first time, I made a horn build that was a sort of hybrid damage/support in order to help other people do it online. Having good builds helps. But at the end of the day the thing that matters the most in MH is player skill. You could go into a quest naked and as long as you are good enough at the game you can kill even pretty much anything the game has to offer. And on the other side of the coin, you could have the most spreadsheet optimal build for DPS in the game, but if you lack the skill to actually make use of it then it doesn't matter.

  • @AS-iq7dt
    @AS-iq7dt 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These kind of "concerns" are cope from people who think the game should be made for them. I have seen many comments about pocket horn and new moves or mechanics that make things "too easy". A game is meant to be fun for the majority of players, and the meta chasers or even the people on MH reddit or youtube are not the majority.

  • @roberonin7400
    @roberonin7400 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i for sure found rise too easy i could take down some of the end game mosnters with no armour on with duel blades. and i have massive concerns with wilds that things like the mount escape and recover and focus mode staggers/kncokdoens are gonna be way to easy for swetty gamers like my self to abuse. and lots of develpors can not paly there own games great that i dont mind but if thats what they are balancing the game around i think they need to pay more beta testers to try and nreak mecahnics lol. :) asking if i think capcom are idiots is a fine line ahhaha they are brilliant idiots hahahaha!

  • @Dumb-Comment
    @Dumb-Comment 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I never used clutch claws on fatalis, even asmongold didn't use clutch claws and he is a noob and he is trash! But he made it all the way to fatalis