If ever there was an episode not friendly for TH-cam, it's probably this one. Hope you enjoy 🥳 Also be sure to check out the patreon for exclusive episodes and other slop: www.patreon.com/TBHPodcast
Genuine thing I would like to mention to you guys Obviously, you make the podcast long before you post it to TH-cam. Naturally, things on the internet develop and change quickly, so I was wondering if it would be possible to add some text that says what day the podcast was recorded. So that way, people don't come at you guys for saying things that were said before a developing situation changes entirely. IE: Last episode how you, Nerd, were attacked for your comments; And even this one with Colossal's... Insistence for a cut and dry yes or no
@@BillyBurnsfieldI understand grifting but at what point do you not realize defending child marriage or pedophilia by any means is crossing the line. I don’t even think it’s a grift anymore for sneako
@@Arreyuh Not defending pedophilia but, permanently cutting your genitals off at 10 is majorly worse than a 15 year, 354 day 59 minute 59 second old child fully knowing what they're getting themselves into for an adult to go to prison for something arbitrary, im just saying
No he majes very clear he doesn't want it to get lowered, he wants it to be removed. I have no idea how that's any better, guess he's fine with 9 year Olds as long as their married.
@@luismorales865 Yeah its pretty fucked up, but i guess the idea he's coming from is that some kids can grow to be better mentally and or physically than adults which is quite rare, if a child can pass a drivers license with flying colors, can understand string theory or actional investments. they should in confidence know what they're capable of doing, that literally only applies to a very specific substrata of people, marriage isnt that bad, but the sexual intercourse part.. im still not okay about
@@freeguy3894no but giving a vagye safe answer one filled with hesitations and clesr discomfort, where he always takes and holds the most common and milktoast of opinions, that isnt nuance, that is playing is safe and media trained responses
Listen, I get where Pyro is coming from. I actually agree with him for the most part, but holy crap is he bad at articulating his point. His opinion, and more or less mine, is: “Medical transition, particularly affirming surgeries, can be an amazing thing for the right people, and I hope it is made accessible to people who genuinely need it. However since children may not fully understand the full extent of surgeries, I’m unsure whether or not they should be legal. Unfortunately, there are people who regret surgery, because they didn’t fully realize the extent of their decisions. Whatever the case, people should have an unbiased third-party evaluate their decision, as self-identity is a complicated.” Legit that’s not that controversial of a take and shouldn’t be that hard to say. I don’t wanna dunk on Pyro, I don’t even watch him. Since I, as well as many people, have that or a similar opinion it sucks to see him fumble so hard. (Also yeah I know that the opinion is a long way of saying “idk”. That’s kinda the point. These are just the reasons why we’re uncertain. Life is complicated and nuanced. We’re not experts.)
If asked the theoretical problem, this would be a reasonable answer. The question however stands for the legality, and it is too vague for that. What experts/unbiased third party are we talking about? Psychologists absolutely can be biased, and this basically shifts the responsibility of the choice on the “third party”. A clear law would obviously do some harm, but isn’t “better safe than sorry”? Life is complicated and nuanced, and unfortunately oftentimes the nuances are left unaccounted for. Zooming out though, i absolutely see why the guy’s answer was this vague and i don’t blame him. Better safe than sorry here, too
people don't realize that this sort of transitional care comes in lesser forms as well, surgery is the thing you get after being on treatment for at least a good year (and, likely more) - you have plenty of time to make that decision based on how you feel about your body in the first place, they don't just put you under the knife immediately. surgery isn't going to change your vocal inflection or change your facial hair, it is the end-point of a long process. they should be allowed to stop at any time, and the negative effects on pedatric growth always should be considered. they should explore social avenues first to see if it feels right, and then go down the list if they choose to continue it.
also if you do any amount of further research youll find that surgery AND hrt are illegal for MOST people under 18 in nearly every country on earth unless you are in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances. If someone thinks they are trans before 18 they MIGHT get to go on puberty blockers which allow them to postpone the hell of going through the "wrong" puberty until they are 18 when they can choose to start hrt/ have surgery if they want to, and something like over 80% of people who start puberty blockers go on to continue their transition which is often presented as a negative even though its not a negative its literally the whole purpose of the puberty blockers in the first place
these comments are perfectly reflective of the reason pyro chooses to avoid being opinionated. He speaks the least and he gets rinsed for not being vocal enough and not giving his opinion. He talks the most, he gets rinsed for giving his opinion (not even a controversial one, a very sane one), especially on such a sinuous topic that isnt as simple as 'yes or no'. god forbid someone withhold their judgement and opinions because they know they arent informed enough to form a final conclusion lmao. maybe you lot should do the same
I don't think he gave a complicated answer. I think he repeated himself, avoided the question and beat around the bush a lot to avoid offending his audience (which he implies with his example of the fan meetup). Although I respect people that have some spine, state their views and let their audience judge them for who they are, if Pyro wanted to avoid giving an answer he simply could have been to be the point and stated that he's not comfortable having a take on the topic.
@@nickurban6201he said, in short, with therapy and holes you have to jump through, you should be able to do it before 18. a 16 year old who has already gone through 2 years of therapy should be able to get surgery with a regret rate of 1%. they should be able to do hormone blockers and HRT. he just used a lot of words to say "yes with guild lines and oversight"
@@nickurban6201 I wouldn't say so really, yes he was uncomfortable with the topic but he had the same answer as I would have had. It is very complicated, there is no black and white.
@@nickurban6201 People's minds don't work in binary; not everything in life is as simple as yes or no, especially not mental health topics. Fitting people into pre-conceived boxes will only lead to frustration and dissatisfaction.
Can children consent to going on a school field trip? Leaving school early? Having sex? Leaving school on a different bus? No? Sex change operations? ✅️ Give me a break lol. If it weren't a brownie points issue, absolutely NO ONE, including you, would have this opinion 💀
@@samanthasmith733 Except he didn't say yes. He didn't say no. It's a complex topic with a complex answer and many more nuanced details and variables than just a headline question of "should kids get surgery that change body and not undo?" Ages have to be taken into account and further future issues that can arise from simply barring people off from an age that isn't even specifically declared by saying "children", including what forms of surgery. Is this about bottom surgery? Top surgery? What forms of those surgeries-vaginoplasty? Metoidioplasty? Double mastectomy? Breast augmentation? What about surgery to remove cancerous parts of the body? Surgery to simply fuse bones after an accent? I got that one done when I was just about to turn 14. This isn't even to mention that most of the "trans" surgeries are performed in greater quantity on cis people for genital reconstruction or to fight cancer or even reduce back pain, like with double mastectomies, let alone that only a small handful of trans people actually undergo these procedures compared to the entire trans population. I'm a trans girl and I definitely don't want to go through vaginoplasty or any similar process. Currently, in most major countries, children cannot undergo elective irreversible medical procedures (of most types, stuff like breast augmentation is still weirdly permitted to girls under the age of even 17, at least in some parts of the US), including (and especially) gender affirming surgery, whether that be top surgery or bottom surgery. It is illegal, regardless of what surgeons violated that legality in the past.
@@CharityApple07 Yeah I'm not reading all that. The question is whether children should be able to undergo surgery, and the answer is no. Also, there's no nuance between the different surgeries other than in targets certain body parts. What, so children shouldn't be able to sign off on regular surgeries independently permission, but with this there's "nuance??" 😂 So what if it's illegal now? The point of asking the questions is that some people do think it should be legal. Who exactly are you responding to? You barely addressed anything I said, just went on a tangent about being trans.
Ah, I see my original comment under this was deleted. Nice. It's always the trans issues, isn't it? So strong and independent, and yet so fragile and thin-skinned when confronted with basic arguments. I wasn't even insulting or anything. That kind of BS is what gets you transphobia, just so you know....
Each TH-camr has a different political viewpoint, their fans all come together in this comment section. Having a serious discussion leads to political clash.. its inevitable lol..
Pyro gave a surprisingly in depth answer to the question but people just dismiss him as a fence sitter because they can't listen to someone talk for more than 2 minutes without subway surfers gameplay
@@ImproperStandby Honestly, the right answer is that a good therapist needs to be involved. Without a therapist, the answer is no. As for Sneako's beliefs... Just no. Disgusting man with disgusting views.
no, he's not being honest. he had dysmorphia himself as a kids and is now glad he did not get the surgery he wanted. so to the question put to him, the honest answer would be no
It's been 31 episodes but i've only now realized If Colossal does audio-mixing, Dolan does the editing, and Nerd provided the template... ...what does Pyro do?
if this is a serious question which it probably isn't lol he got the podcast popular since the other three are either incredibly niche or nobodies ...which was good or bad since pyro's NEW demographic (morons who watch livestreams) don't really mesh with whatever garbage nerd city talks about now
@@Jikuro_ It's kinda exactly the question. Like treatment as in talking to psychologists and so on is one thing, but actual procedure should by all accounts be off limits to underage people, like there's no discussion here.
I love this dynamic, it's so dysfunctional. Pyro is extremely adhd and is trying his hardest to be understanding and accepting and to see things from different perspectives. Which comes off as insane lunatic yapping because he's not good at phrasing himself on the spot. Nerd understands what Pyro is desperately TRYING to say and is wording it in a much more refined way and trying to explain his pov. And Colossal is just attacking Pyro as hard as possible. This always happens. It's really entertaining. Dolan is usually the voice of the common man in these lol.
Such an astute observation of the whole thing lmao. I get Colossal's frustration in trying to pin down an answer, I get Pyro's difficulty in expressing himself, I get Nerd's earnest desire to help him along with questions he feels might get to the bottom of it faster than Oliver's increasingly antagonistic approach from the frustration, and then Dolan's just there like :))) so i guess we all feel like there's nuance to this eh? And minimising irreversible harm is the goal (irreversible harm being a child taking their own life due to being denied access to any support on one end, and then a child growing into a very distressed adult with potentially similar suicidal ideations due to feeling like they've irreversibly mutilated themselves over decisions made when their brain hadn't fully developed).
@@RealElongatedMuskrat It is extremely rare for someone to regret transitioning. Extremely. It is very common for trans children to be depressed. This depression can lead to abuse and self harm. If a child is depressed, then that needs to be treated. When dysphoria is the problem, gender reaffirming care is the proper solution.
@Swift_LN I am aware of this however I know you couldn't know that and it's important for people to be aware of this on general, so this is a very necessary reply! As you stated, thus far the data we have available would imply regret rates for gender affirming surgeries are lower than that of certain elective surgeries like knee surgeries. While it's a younger area of proper study, this is what we know so far (trans people have always existed, decent methodologically sound studies of trans people with large enough sample sizes are a much more recent area of research). It is worthy of discussion that until very recently, gender affirming care was and in many places still is, a hugely uphill battle. This would imply an end result in which those who are able to finally achieve care would have lower rates of regret than easier to access surgeries like breast implants and so on.
@@Swift_LN I also want you to know that I was replying to you and therefore wasn't listening to the pod properly, only to zone back in when the phrase "jacked it to baby yoda" was uttered. You did this to me.
He said himself that if he leaned slightly on one side he would be labeled as supporting the extreme, clearly he has an opinion but he's just scared to alienate anyone
The original question by Clown was. "Can children be allowed to undergo surgery if the parents and the child consent to it?" And it's no, children cannot undergo that surgery they have to be an adult for that.
@@javsw.1878 children do not have the mental or emotional development to consent to serious things. dating, drugs, tattoos... children cannot consent because they are not mature enough to know the ramifications of their actions.
@@javsw.1878 You know why you needed a permission slip to go on a field trip in elementary school? Because children cannot consent. If we can't trust a child to consent on whether or not they want to go on a school function, then we can't trust a child consent to anything.
Right but their talking hypothetically about what SHOULD be done rather than what IS done. Same way Sneako is stating his (insane) opinion that kids SHOULD be able to consent to marriage, even though obviously they legally cannot
"Alot of my fans are trans" so I'm going to avoid the question to not upset any type of demographic I am a fan of pyro I like him but he did dodge the question.
Or maybe he's heard their perspective and understands what they've shared with him and the things he's being asked, as said, cannot be answered with a yes or no :]
@@masonmanuel1637 yeah he definitely knows how rabid and on his ass they would be trying to cancel him over having the normal and reasonable opinion that kids should not be getting an unnecessary surgery or taking hrt under 18
As a canadian who has worked with trans minors and around the transition process a gp like nerd said can only do affirming care but they have to send you to both a psychiatrist and therapist who specializes in care of lgbt individuals and both your psychiatrist and therapist have to clear you mentally fit to make the decision as a minor you can't get the surgery but they can start you on hormone blockers at 13 with parental permission and since transitioning isn't a medical surgery it's not covered by our free health care so most people can't even afford it anyways and the hormones are a month thing so to even to be able to get it by 13 price aside you'd have to be in therapy and seeing a psychiatrist since you were about 6 or 7 and have and be mentally fit for at least a year and a half to two years and after starting hormone blockers you'd still have to see both professionals for the whole time you're on the blockers till 18 or you stop taking them so it really more depends on your doctors more than your parents
My personal opinion not that anyone cares is that all cosmetic surgeries, serving, marriage, sex, and non medical drug intake should be 21-25 considering the brain doesn't finish till developing then. Whether or not you physically transition does not change if you're trans there are plenty of people who are trans who don't want the surgery it really isn't a mandatory to being trans.
Colossal argues in such an old head way. Everything is either pitch black or blindingly white to him even when it comes to things where there genuinely is no right answer, and putting Pyro in a corner to say yes or no while disregarding everything he said is so irrational. The fact that I see so many people in the comments who are the same mindset is so disheartening.
at this point idek how these guys are even his friends jay i understand, but colossal and nerd feel like the opposite type of person that would get along with someone like pyro
He’s correct. Not every issue is so deeply nuanced. You can’t undo blockers or surgery. You can always grow out your hair, do vocal training, adopt new hobbies that fit your personality etc. But as a teen you do not need to go to such drastic measures when you do not know the ramifications and could end up regretting it. Patience is a virtue.
@@nutpeg6915 Did you watch the video? He's literally the only one there who thinks that way and the rest explained in detail the nuance involved. Hell, this wasn't even about blockers, what sneako asked was about "chopping off their dicks"
@@nutpeg6915you CAN undo blockers that's literally the point. yk kids go on blockers right? that's literally been there common use for a LONG time. hormone blockers are used when people get there periods years too early. 8 year olds get pubity blockers. it's reversible with HRT. just shove it behind a 6 months of therapywith an age min of 13/14 and boom. yes with guild lines is what pyro said. not "yes" and the yes is the least important part of the statement
Probably because you were 5 and didn't know the full picture, which is what is being discussed in this podcast. I think everyone would prefer if it was as simple as being gay or something, where there arent serious ramifications when you're younger, but it isnt, and it needs to be discussed.
Naw i knew the full ramifications because when i learned about it i learned about the surgery and the hormones and stuff. And yeah. I didn't care. I just thought it was kinda neat that people could do that. And i continued on with my life.
@@Oscar-ek2jxmore cis gender people take hormones than trans ppl… middle age women take hormones for their menopause and men such as Joe Rogan are taking testosterone to compensate for their lowing hormones. Young cis gender kids take hormone blockers for decades now when they have puberty start too early that it becomes a medical issue. Cis gender men, women and children take “trans medication”. Think teens should be able to take blockers and HRT (once medical professionals and therapists agree and family are consulted) government to allow for it to occur but can have oversight. Regarding surgery… if your nation can use ur body in the military then you can apply for whatever surgery’s you deem appropriate in my view. “I can get shot at by serving for my nation in the army but my nation can’t allow me x/y/z surgery for another 4 years…” Surgery should be allowed once ur an adult and you go through all the procedures (medical checks and therapy checks).
transfem here Literally just give informed consent and introspection. Adults are expected to do that before like any plastic surgery. Make sure the individual knows what they're getting into and can express their actual feelings with a professional away from external influence, like parents or such. But surgery is only really an option 2 years after hrt, which at max starts around 16 (when i got mine, before the clinic was closed due to conservative lawmakers) puberty blockers can prevent symptoms from getting worse if you're still in puberty, growing unwanted facial hair made me want to tear my face off. Puberty blockers are easy to reverse, and if somebody is forced to go down one puberty then they should get to choose at least.
got a few things that might be interesting if you care. Gender surgery's should not be performed on under 18 yo. However gender care has a lot of levels to it. 1st step generally is social transition, which basically means name change, new clothes, new pronouns, so on so forth. 2nd step will be getting into therapy for mental health help and getting diagnosed with gender dysphoria. 3rd step depending on your age you can get puberty blockers which just puts a pause on puberty at the start of it so the kid doesn't goes through unwanted changes. This is also prescribed to cis kids that have puberty too early. and if the kid realizes that being trans isn't for them, then they can just stop taking it and puberty resumes as normal. 4th step around 16-18 depending on where you live, you can start HRT after getting your blood tests done and what not. 5th step isn't some to happen 100% of the time. between 4-13% of trans people actually get bottom surgery according to UVA health. But if the trans person wanted bottom surgery then they would be able to get it as an adult. This process can take years especially if your country has a slow as fuck health/mental system like NZ or UK. speaking from experience. been socially trans for 3 years and haven't gotten to step 2 yet. but I hopefully will cuz I'm turning 18 next year. Edit: they ended up talking about most of what I just said so fuck me ig.
i think its sad that all the nuance of your comment wasnt really mentioned in their arguments, they were basically just saying "before 18 yes or no?", meanwhile its a much more complex topic, which they aren'teducated on
@@bbbmd2007 then i feel like they should either inform themselves better or just not talk about it like authority figures, it just propagates those ignorant opinions to their fanbase which is 99% cis.
@@lesbiacrus yeah true actually, the guy that said " they're lying just the hormone blockers being reversible" made me very mad because ik where he got that info from and ik how to easily prove him wrong, but im glad they at least didn't dwell on that for too long.
@@lesbiacrus Why would it be mentioned when that wasn't the question? No one argued that you aren't allowed to seek other form of treatment before 18, the crux of the question was entirely on the surgery part, which as the OP even wrote, IS very black and white.
im trans and this is really painful to listen to. unfortunately it seems all of them dont really know what theyre talking about, and thats fine but heres some education trans kids are definitely real, i was one of them (im an adult now obviously). not all of them are forced into being trans by their parents, or doing it for attention. there is an astronomical difference between getting srs (sexual reassignment surgery), having hormone blockers/replacement, and socially transitioning. being trans doesn't mean "getting your meat snipped", it means being who you want to be openly, regardless of physical appearance. physically transitioning is a whole other thing that a lot of us don't even go through with, but it doesn't make us any less trans
I could fucking hear pyro sweating through the screen holy shit this was hilarious. "Should children be able to have experimental height surgery?" "Well uh- You see uhm, uh... Have I ever told you about my fetishes?"
If you're an adult and you wanna do crack you should be able to do crack. You should be able to do any drug you want legally once you're an adult. I am for legalizing all drugs completely because if Alcohol which is already worse than like half of banned drugs can be legal, so can other drugs
Yeah cause this is definitely the place to have a conversation about the medical field stuff and the different understandings between American and British medicine regarding trans ppl with the differences between procedures and meds that are used by non trans people (hormone blockers and HRT and testosterone being used by more non trans ppl than trans ppl for instance) no shit. Surgery for trans people should be left till they are of the age to serve in the military, if you can die for ur nation you can medically do what you want with ur body (within legal means)
You can be on the middle of the autism- i mean political spectrum, and then criticize both sides. But that also gets double the hate and only real fuckin legends are in that middle sweet spot.
It's mainly because it's been pushed by media. If Lgbtq weren't all over the place, no one would really care. Any bad case involving them wouldn't be mainstream.
I honestly think critikal just hasn't put any thought in the idea of transitioning and upon being pressed he chose what he thought was fine to say. I don't really believe him saying that on the spot he'd already know the age of what an SCO was and I could be wrong. It's obvious critikal was not prepared for the question and the backlash is extreme but it is a double standard for that debate. and now it's probably best for him to never bring it up again since he did clarify that he still thinks children are fine to undergo the processes (horomone treatments and such) to transition in that response he made if they and the parents consent.
Like anyone should be listening to him about something like this in the first place, he should have refused to answer. At least that would have been honest.
Yeah, but the majority of people in the world are dead against children transitioning. When the TRA's tried to push this a few years ago, even other leftists vehemently attacked them over it. He basically said the fringe radical take, rather than the actual centrist take which is HELL NO.
As someone that transitioned at 16, I don't think Colossal understands the sheer amount of checks you have to go through in order to even start hormones. I had to get multiple second opinions, consent from my parents, and a written diagnosis of gender dysphoria over the course of 6 months. I had plenty of time to consider the consequences of what I did and was repeatedly informed of the possible side effects, but still went through with it anyways because I was confident that it would benefit me. I understand Colossal concern that kids aren't able to understand the ramifications of transitioning but throughout the actual experience of my transition, I was given a plethora of opportunities to reconsider. I appreciate pyro standing up for us though
i respect your experience, but there are many children who have not had that experience and just get immediately affirmed and prescribed without those checks. people who got surgeries without proper mental health checks. your experience is good to hear, that there are people it works out for, but there are so many people it has failed. if you check the rising rates of detransitioners you can see it clear as day. maybe the solution isn't ban but definitely major reform also, this next point is not applied to you, but it's possible to be inaccurate about a worldview for a long period of time. for example, people who were certain religions for years, then realize their worldview was not accurate. children especially can have shifted views as they are figuring things out. so, those checks may not actually stop anyone because they can just stick with it for a long time and still be inaccurate
Yeah, all of them come from this in a place of privilege. They don’t know his inefficient and how much the world is against *us* nor the extent of this disorder to be helped. It’s not something you can wait for till you’re an adult (for care in general) because it’s torturous to go through puberty, and worst to get to the irreversible end. The argument “why not wait” made my centrists like we see here comes from a perspective that is clear they don’t know what it’s like, and really how could they?! But because people like this make the decisions, and it is the most common ‘progress’ consensus I’m afraid to say suicide rates will sky rocket
Pyro is kinda right even though the comments are shitting on him, there is no definitive answer to the question only different scenarios playing out with different long therm consequences, we can never evaluate what is going to happen definitely
The correct answer is “no”. Children can’t consent to taking drugs, drinking alcohol or having tattoos. They simply can’t make major life decisions or taking drugs that literally stunt hormones and will occasionally take away your right to reproduce.
The comments are pretty ignorant on trans issues. Surgery doesn't happen for minors, and there is a very lengthy process with lots of check from medical professionals to just get hormones, with plenty of chances to back out
If you can’t get a tattoo at 12 because you’re too young to alter your body so drastically then gender surgery is an absolute no go. That is the question being asked and the answer is so obvious but female sisters like pyro are too scared to say it.
@mocha6145 True, but how about lie to everyone there’s no sex or gender at all, I think that might works as well. I mean, you can’t be upset about something you have no concept of, right?
@@ursowrongwrongisaidwe are already seeing that, it doesnt help trans people because it's body dysmorphia and nothing else. even if we lose the term for women they are still going to want to look like the opposite gender b
im about half an hour into the video and i wanna point out two things. 1: beginning a transition as a child is not comparable with getting irreversible surgery. it usually starts with the person going on puberty blockers, in most cases until they are adults. if the person changes their mind and realizes that they arent trans, they simply get off puberty blockers. if not, the gender affirming care will proceed. those puberty blockers do no irreversible damage to a child who may turn out to not be trans. as for bottom surgery, it should never be available to minors, but thats besides the point since it isnt anyway. 2: drag is not a fetish. its a hobby, similarly to cosplaying.
I kindda agree with pyro with treatment. Like we know we dont want kids to drink because alcohol just sucks, its not a core personality trait or identity to like drinking alcohol (and if it is you almost certintly need help). But wanting to transition can be, but its something also dangerous and I think ultimitly pyros answer to the question is "Yes, but with an informed third party and also enough time for the person to ascertain that their very much serious about this and its not some kindda phase or misdirected thinking." It is an answer. Its just not one that can be crammed into a simple Y/N to cover everything. Now, getting surgery, I say bar till 18/adult.
The third party thing is kinda stupid from him because it is literally impossible rn to confirm whether or not a kid is actually trans or anyone for that matter with any method.
Yeah but Pyro doesn’t know how to be concise. That’s why he makes 15+ min videos to explain simple drama while Dolan can make a video about the same thing in 2min 🦆
12:00 “Give me a yes or no answer for an incredibly complicated question that depends entirely on the situation of each individual” “Can’t do that, that’s oversimplifying a huge issue” “WTF man come on just give me an answer it’s not that hard”
Literally name a single instance where a different situation would change the actual topic at hand here. It's not a complicated question in the slightest. Underage people shouldn't be allowed to consent to things which are so detrimental, other form of treatment is a whole another story and you CAN discuss nuance there, but the question Colossal asked had no room for nuance, it was as black and white as asking "can underage people consent to sex", like giving a bs vague ass yappilicious answer with the whole "well urm it's actually complicated and depends on the individual and I don't have any actual answers, but let's just say it's out of your pay-grade lil bro" isn't a good look there.
Seen some people dunking on Pyro being a fence sitter about the trans thing but, I do see what he's going for. The parents are a huge factor when it comes to children's decision making and it follows them when they age, even if they disagree later on. Really depends on the environment they grow up in and if that process is worth it for the long term.
I think that how parents raise their kid is the single most important factor in a childs life. It can literally mean that the child either grows up successful or a criminal. Parenting is the root of the problem and it should be adressed instead of making sex change surgeries legal for children
the fact that this comment has 8 likes proves that we're living in clown world. How absolutely disgusting how some people justify their degenerate views.
Childhood transition is like childhood ADHD. Not getting proper treatment can fuck your entire life up. But, doctors did use to massively overprescribe ADHD to any slightly energetic kid, and give them Adderall, which would fuck up those kids. The solution was ultimately to sharpen the edges of what ADHD was, and improve the diagnosis process.
i can partly agree with this. the "affirmation model" of gender treatment is shit. medical professionals need to get back to what matters- dysphoria. and determining if the dysphoria is caused by being trans or something else. but also, i grew up with undiagnosed adhd and i wouldn't say it came close to fucking my life up. everyone is different, yes were things hard? sure. but we all get by.
How does not getting on stimulant drugs as a child fuck you up for life, exactly? Worse grades in school? Hmm...which is worse... I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and I did just fine without meds. Maybe I would have done better with them, but I don't think that should have happened when I was fucking ten. Insanity.
@@jesss101 I don't think your argument countered any argument I made. You just said things because you want to win an argument. PS, ADHD sure did fuck up my life, several times.
@@jesss101 It's fine that you got by while having ADHD and never been diagnosed, (at least as a child) BUT you're not every single person that has ADHD right? You are just using your own life experiences to tinge your whole view of undiagnosed "problems" I have been battling with depression and suicidal ideation my whole life, since I was in elementary school. I've done fine enough, I haven't attempted a single time, but I have come significantly close to actually attempting, and I think that getting diagnosed would've helped me a lot to actually effectively dealt with those emotions, and it would've led me to not be an "outcast" for the majority of my life, just because I was "different" from everyone else. It just sucks being gay, trans, or autistic in 3rd world countries, you are just kind of stuck with whatever cards god gave you, so i believe, that your views although not evil, you are just coating a complex topic with a single brush stroke with a single can of paint.
16:47 Isn't this just misinformation? When I look up what the regulations in Canada are, I get a set of rules that doctors HAVE TO follow before they're even allowed to administer gender-affirming treatment. Note how this directly contradicts Nerd's claim that the doctors aren't allowed to question a patient's self-diagnosis. They are required by law to question the self-diagnosis.
Those Canadian regulations are for their socialized medical system. Nothing bc stops wealthy Canadians from paying for additional medical care. Also many of them just come here to the US. I live in NY & tons of Canadians come to our hospitals
@@scarletsletter4466 Ah sorry, I just found a source that was biased against trans people and claiming to give an overview of the law, when it was actually giving an overview of the health care system. Turns out transphobic sources are still inaccurate when they give information that hurts their cause. (for reference, the Aristotle report claims: "No province or territory in Canada allows “bottom” (male or female genital reassignment) surgery for applicants under the age of 18", but I couldn't find a different source confirming this) But in either case, my point stands: Nerd claims it's forbidden to question children's self-diagnoses on the topic of surgery, when it's actually *standard practice* not to do surgery on children in the first place, so the truth is something that is vastly different from and mutually exclusive with what he said.
@chapman2001 The fact that you immediately assume that's my stance on this shows you aren't willing to engage with this conversation in good will. Have a nice day.
The topic itself has nuance, but that wasn't his question. The question was about whether the underage could consent to a life-altering procedure, there's no room for nuance there, it's too detrimental for it to be there. Obviously other form of treatment is another thing, and acceptable, but a full-on surgery, it's a pretty simple answer, what nuance could there possibly be there?
@@chapman2001 not really that simple though is it? what about things like the situation (it's happened a few times now) where there's a drug that can save a life, but the government won't authorize treatment because it's potentially dangerous and the person in question is a child? or schizophrenia medication which can inflict separate permanent effects? not even talking about trans healthcare, just that people seem to make sweeping statements when they probably wouldn't question a child with schizophrenia being given medication
real talk, it’s kinda clear y’all don’t ow much about the topic of transitioning and that’s perfectly fine! learning is everything. but it’s slightly upsetting how little most of you know about it, you’re saying things in the tone of ‘this should be how it is!” when that’s LITERALLY how it is and implying it’s not like that. so pleaseeeeee do some research before a topic!! kids (18 and under) HAVE to go to gender therapy, talk to doctors extensively etc etc, only for HORMONES. you can’t get surgery as a child for gender affirming care!! - a trans guy!! i AM very happy you are talking about this topic!! it’s very interesting to hear what others think but i beeegggg of you to make sure to not imply anything bad, we already have it really rough at the moment lmao
Bro colossal is coping so fucking hard. It's not like a child says "I want to transition" and goes straight to taking HRT. There is a thorough psychological evaluation and shit
A "psychological evaluation" in which the therapist is required by law to encourage the mindset of the patient. And if not, they are at risk of losing their license for doing an anti-conversion therapy.
@@trickstabber8117 ????? Please educate yourself on how does the psychological evaluation works. It requires multiple visits over a span of few months to a year.
@@ChilliConKaren "Educate yourself" coming from somebody who clearly isn't educated on the matter himself. I've done my research and what I explained to you is 100% true. It's even mentioned by NerdCity in this very podcast. You got something in your ears?
It's just so wild to be straight and cis and never have that questioned because like.. you inherently know if you are cis and straight, right? But someone who isn't cis and/or straight has to "logically" just "wait it out" (to 25 apparently, lol?) because "your body changes." Like let me know when you grow out of your straightness, gang.
My dumb hot take...we'd be better served as a society to stop assuming that just because a boy takes interest in girl things it MUST mean they are trans. By all means, I think adults should have access to gender affirming surgeries, but perhaps prior to becoming an adult we should just follow the kid's lead by letting them explore toys/media/whatever without shaming them for enjoying something "girly" Not saying gender dysphoria isn't real BUT I think a lot of people do the obsession thing like Pyro and the height surgery when it's really just insecurity or whatever about not exactly fitting into "boy norms" Let them explore without stigma, but you don't need to push heady adult issues like gender surgery onto them unless THEY are the ones that bring it up. Then you can start the whole psych eval process to make sure it's legit gender dysphoria and if it persists when they come of age, BOOM, now they can get the surgery and move forward with their new life.
Funnily enough there was some movement in that direction back in the 2010's, but as is common with progressivism it swung further to the left, that became the current thing, and it purity spiraled out
For sure! 2 of my teenage daughter's friends wanted to be trans 4 years ago. Last year they both decided they didn't want to be trans anymore. Luckily they weren't allowed to do permanently body modifications.. One of them actually wanted top surgery. One of them started out as non binary, then wanted to be male and then back to non binary and now she's fine with being a girl. They're all 18 now.
I mean, every adult has been a kid before it's weird that some of us forgot that we just wanted something because it was an option or it was trending then move on to the next one
Nerd city carries this podcast. The other three never say anything productive they beat around the bush when he’s gone. Ill be honest he did sperg out but he still makes good content
Very interesting episode. I enjoy when you're just fooling around and having fun, but discussing topics in a more nuanced way is very interesting to listen to as well. The downside is I can't just go and do something else while running the video in the background, I had to sit down and listen closely because I didn't want to miss anything XD
I'm only around 15 minutes into this episode, so I hope things changes later on but oh my god Colossal is being so incredibly bad faith with his questions. Nobody is expecting kids to go through surgery for their gender dysphoria. It just simply doesn't happen. All we want is appropriate psychiatric help from qualified therapists, and puberty blockers so that they can put their puberty on hold long enough for them to make a final decision when they're old enough for it with significantly better results for them since they didn't have to go through the puberty of their born sex. It's also worth pointing out that the effects of puberty blockers are entirely reversible as a person can simply stop taking them and their puberty will resume. Discussions like this are always so frustrating to me because none of the people on this podcast know enough about what they're talking about to be able to have a real discussion about it. All of their points are simply based on assumptions and things they think they've heard. We need to be learn to be willing to admit that we don't know enough about something to make an informed comment on it, and if we don't know enough, either don't talk about it, or learn about it. Half-baked topics like this do nothing but hurt people. Edit: Watched through the whole thing now and yeah I've lost a lot of respect for Colossal and Nerd City because of this episode. A lot of completely baseless points were made by them with complete confidence on their end instead of just admitting they don't know. Very disappointed.
Big agree, people once again adding their opinions on something they don't know enough about. Pyro was stuck in a very tough position, trying to empathise with both sides while trying to navigate a very hostile environment and bad faith questions. Kids don't get surgery, ever. That's the way it should be. It's a bad faith talking point to say kids are getting parts chopped off when that just isn't true.
As a 21 years old trans person living in a 3rd world country where I could not get gender affirming care nor surgery without jumping through hoops; I do think at least 18 for surgery is best but before that, you can socially transition and see if that's what you want. I've always known I was trans or not my assigned gender even before I found out what it meant- before internet, before even being exposed to anything queer. I felt like something was wrong and hated being perceived as my assigned gender. I also hit puberty at 8 and looked older/taller than children my age so Sneako thinking children that has hit puberty being able to consent with their parents permission made me feel utter disgust. It already happens in 3rd world countries like mine for money and is FAR more widespread than gender affirming surgery on minors. inb4 "tldr" because god forbid someone decides to engage with content under le funny podcast
I share the same thoughts, but I'll also add that they should not do the meds (treatment or blockers. Not familiar since I'm not exposed to it) until at least 18 as well. After that, it's all on them. Edit : added the bracket
I also agree that social transition should be considered first before jumping immediately to puberty blockers and the like. I read another comment that said the attending psychiatrist and doctor need to constantly check in with the child taking on puberty blockers so if this is the case a constant and consistent, diligent check-in should definitely be the minimum. Personally I really don't think these should be made an option for children until they reach 18-20 of age though.
I think that Nerd's take on internet restrictions for kids was really good and nuanced, I think It's really important that the label of "this could have stuff that isn't safe" is really good
A good thing about trans affirming care is that it is not black and white. There are many options before any permanent change. There is social transitioning where a kid is called by their preferred pronous, possibly even dressing up differently or changing their name. There is also hornone blockers to prevent puberty, it doesn't cause permanent damage and halts unwanted changes like mammary growth or hair on various body parts. This can be very stressful for a trans kid and gives them more time to think. Like this unwanted growth can cause sh or life ending thoughts. Because puberty is also a permanent change and requires medical help to reverse. Voice training can also help with sounding more masc or fem without the need of hormone medication. In all, I believe as a trans man that kids should be allowed to medically transition after heavily consulting with their medical professional, getting multiple opinions from others, and should be at the min min 16. With the reasoning being life or death. Many other trans people also agree with taking hormone blockers and waiting till old enough. A convo about a blanket statement of yes or no by 4 cis straight men that barely know the topic is very silly. 😅
Pyro with his leg lengthening story is very simply explaining why all kids go through body dysmorphia at puberty and almost all kids progress passed it. This is a social epidemic like every decade has except here children are doing irreversible damage to themselves.
Hate to break it to you but wanting to be taller VS feeling like you're in the wrong body aren't quite the same thing, as Pyro even said himself. I fully agree that yes, a lot of kids struggle with dysmorphia and it is usually something they will grow out of by the time puberty finishes, dysphoria is different to dysmorphia and will continue even after puberty has ended. However due to the similarities between dysphoria and dysmorphia, I fully believe that any permanent changes (such as surgeries) should wait till the individual is an adult so they can make an informed decision. Here in New Zealand, you have to wait a good year or so in most cases before a doctor will even prescribe you hormones, and even after that the waitlist for surgeries is years and years long, to help ensure that it's something the individual definitely wants and isn't something they'll change their mind on. With that as well, you have to get multiple doctor approvals stating that you do in fact have gender dysphoria in order to medically transition
Body dysmorphia ≠ gender dysphoria. Just because you're seeing trans people more publicly right now doesn't make the existence of trans people a "social epidemic" lmao
@carous3lcos yes I agree with me as well thank you lol wait until adult brain is locked in seek psychiatric help and advice from multiple doctors and practically 0 surgeries will occur
I appreciate Nerd talking about the difference between "proof" and "evidence", in my language (Dutch) "proof" and "evidence" translate into the same term ("bewijs"), it has never occurred to me that those words might be used differently because in my vernacular it quite literally does not exist (or it does but it's some obscure courtroom-specific word I've never heard of).
Evidence can be pieces, like data used together to reach a conclusion, that could be proof. But yes, the words are different in English. It’s actually 1 of the key differences and reasons why in international business we like to sign a contract that says English translation governs, even if we choose a neutral jurisdiction of governing law, with venue at The Hague for example. It’s common for all the parties to want English language since it lets us get the most precise legal terms in the contract
Bruh what insight? He was yapping for minutes and occasionally saying stuff no one disagrees with like "underage people SHOULD get some form of treatment or start with the hormonal stuff" and the only thing Colossal asked the yes or no about was the life-altering surgery shit, which yeah, that isn't nuanced at all, everyone agrees that that's naturally off limits.
😂 it’s funny to hear him flounder but OTOH it’s mad depressing that we live in a time where folks are scared to say “let’s not sterilize minors with elective procedures, just wait til they’re adults”
It's not the medical consensus lol. Believe it or not it doesn't actually matter what we think that much, it's the md's and research that says gender Affirming care is fantastic for those with dysphoria...
I actually can’t finish this video it’s sad the lack of research done and the lack of talking to people experiencing the topics talked about as a trans person I’m disappointed
yeah its clear that colossal never even watched the full sneako/critikal "debate" or critikals response to it. Sucks that he cant even watch a video, while we have to live with the backlash of his opinions. No normal trans person defended cris tyson, no normal person defended sneako. I just wish they would do their research before debating real peoples lives.
Honest answer to the surgeries thing? I think it's really one of those "it really depends on the case" - I've struggled with gender stuff my whole life, and then transitioned in my late 20s, but I was 15 when I realized how awful my body made me feel. I had a doctor sorta try to push me through transition when I first came out, and it really scared me that things WERE permanent, so I went to therapy for a while. I put things on pause for almost 5 years, first out of shame, then out of fear. Therapy really helped me realize that this WAS right for me, but like I still needed to see multiple different therapists & doctors first. So I feel like it's legitimately case by case basis - I think some people mature differently than others & life experiences affect all that, but also brains and bodies work differently, and giving one sweeping answer of "yes all kids should" or "no no child should" doesn't feel like it fits the actual issues.
I just don't get why a surgery is the most necessary and the most important thing for transitioning. Is having a cock or a pussy gonna fix your life? I think what trans people should do is what you did. Therapy is much more important than having a surgery that could change your whole life permanently. I've also heard a lot of stories about botched surgeries of people who went abroad for the surgery and their stories are really disturbing.
One of your doctors pushing the issue is why we need to, at least at the moment, have a blanket ban on these kind of surgeries specifically for gender reasons and not for physical health reasons. If the system could be trusted to not push this for what they believe to be moral reasons, or for financial reasons, then we could do it on a case by case basis. But there's hospitals that fund their whole year of operations off of doing these surgeries on minors, and either they, or their insurance, will have to pay these hospitals for the rest of their life for treatment, whether they continue on as they are post surgery, or if they try to de-transition. Until there is a serious reformation? No until they're 18.
@@FablesTold Fucking on point. When did the left become pro big pharma? Just LARP that your trans and take a few hours to look online, on reddit, etc. to see how easy it would be for you to get HRT. I don't know where your from but see how easy it is in a lefty state. It's pretty much the same process to get hair loss treatment or the process to get a medical card for marijuana back when that was still necessary. Like, you see Dr Feelgood over zoom for 15 minutes and next thing you know your fast tracked to a prescription. It's crazy to see left wing people that are normally extremely skeptical of the free market libertarian approach endorse this kind of thing. Does the medical industry care about the ongoing opioid crisis? What about the amount of botched cosmetic surgeries given to desperate people? People mutilate themselves beyond recognition just to escape their own bodies. It's a messy, disgusting business and I hesitate to say adults should even be allowed to take these kinds of risks for cosmetic reasons, but I am content to have that be a personal opinion rather than policy. Kids though? That should be an obvious choice.
It’s practically impossible to start medically or surgically transition under the age of 18 anyway (as a trans person) it’s so difficult to do it’s a dumb argument as less than 1% of people can do it at that age and less than 1% of trans people regret transitioning anyway
The fact that the UK is soooo far behind the US makes this topic weird also. Let alone the difference in how each nation regards the age at which you become an adult etc etc
people need to learn that hormone therapy is a reversible transition method! things like top surgery isnt, so there should be variables in every case and each case should be treated with risk assessments specific to each child. it is just a stupid and unnecessary conversation to define laws around this stuff because every case is different.
I think the most important variable that everybody seems to forget is the fact that trans kids DON'T GET SURGERY. Puberty blockers pause puberty in a REVERSIBLE way, giving the kid time to decide and get therapy to figure out if that's the path they wanna take. That's the protocol for care for trans kids.
Also mad respect to pyro for navigating that really difficult position. It's hard to answer when caught between 2 very charged armies. I wish everyone would just learn about what they're talking about before making a snap decision.
It's amazing to remember that through all the slop episodes we have of the podcast, all the hosts survived controversy so well and this episode with this heavy of a topic really shows their skill of navigating dialogue to still bring an entertaining show but not burn their entire career down in a single moment
Pyro getting shit for a pretty decent answer considering the nature of the topic. Its not a yes or no answer. For thise in the UK in order to qualify for surgery you have to have been identifying as the opposite aex for a minimum of 5 years and to be able to prove that you have wanted to transition for the majority of your life. Its not a "I feel like a change" kind of thing and as you get older there are more barriers to it. Its a convoluted and difficult topic and whilst important the level of hate directed towards trans people is ridiculous and only spurred on by the media considering its only 0.5% of the uk population.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pZbsSDRrmXA/mqdefault.jpg)
If ever there was an episode not friendly for TH-cam, it's probably this one. Hope you enjoy 🥳
Also be sure to check out the patreon for exclusive episodes and other slop: www.patreon.com/TBHPodcast
ok
"ok" 🤓👍
@@barny541 don't be mean, it's mean
Btw don't worry I'll reupload it for the boys back home
Genuine thing I would like to mention to you guys
Obviously, you make the podcast long before you post it to TH-cam. Naturally, things on the internet develop and change quickly, so I was wondering if it would be possible to add some text that says what day the podcast was recorded.
So that way, people don't come at you guys for saying things that were said before a developing situation changes entirely.
IE: Last episode how you, Nerd, were attacked for your comments; And even this one with Colossal's... Insistence for a cut and dry yes or no
Shocker, the Cuties lover doesn’t believe the Age of consent
If you think Cuties is the worst, then you probably haven’t heard of Maladolescenza. Pray you haven’t, I wish I hadn’t, either.
@@FaceBack18sneako is bad
cuties is bad
maladolescenza is bad
'nuff said.
If someone supports Cuties, their opinion is instantly irrelevant and meaningless .
why you have a calculator pfp
Well critical said trans surgery of children is fine...so there's that
Remember, every hotel room has a Sneako chair.
It used to be called the Destiny chair, which sounds more like a euphemism, but now it has a more appropriate name
It makes sense that sneako is a cuck, his girlfriend's too old for him
@@KATinBLACKno no, it’s still very much Destiny’s chair. Don’t try to skew this narrative because someone just as pathetic exists.
I still reserve that Steven would be more inclined to fit that chair.
Sneako chair 😂😂
A person who defended cuties and wants the age of consent to be lowered? Breaking news bread found in bakery
@@BillyBurnsfieldI understand grifting but at what point do you not realize defending child marriage or pedophilia by any means is crossing the line. I don’t even think it’s a grift anymore for sneako
@@Arreyuh Not defending pedophilia but, permanently cutting your genitals off at 10 is majorly worse than a 15 year, 354 day 59 minute 59 second old child fully knowing what they're getting themselves into for an adult to go to prison for something arbitrary, im just saying
Its a Muslim grift because most Muslims believe this to be accurate about consent, not because it's controversial
No he majes very clear he doesn't want it to get lowered, he wants it to be removed. I have no idea how that's any better, guess he's fine with 9 year Olds as long as their married.
@@luismorales865 Yeah its pretty fucked up, but i guess the idea he's coming from is that some kids can grow to be better mentally and or physically than adults which is quite rare, if a child can pass a drivers license with flying colors, can understand string theory or actional investments. they should in confidence know what they're capable of doing, that literally only applies to a very specific substrata of people, marriage isnt that bad, but the sexual intercourse part.. im still not okay about
Pyro would be the biggest fence sitter if the fence didn't break from his commissions
Sensible chuckle
@@ECartmanistCultured guffaw
Just Like charlie
trying to give an answer to a nuanced question while being bombarded with "yes or no" is fence sitting?
@@freeguy3894no but giving a vagye safe answer one filled with hesitations and clesr discomfort, where he always takes and holds the most common and milktoast of opinions, that isnt nuance, that is playing is safe and media trained responses
pyrocynical forced to have a single opinion, shuts down
Next he'll quit the podcast like his idol Charles "Styrofoam" White
Moon shaped pool is such a good album
The cr1tikal disease, many such cases
The Clown scares him
Pyrocynical situation is insane
Cr1tical: Children can go through gender transition procedures
Sneako: I AM A PEDOPHILE I AM A PEDOPHILE I AM
I swear i shouldn’t have laughed at this as hard as I did
Both support child abuse
Dude it was such a free win how did he goof it up that hard 😭😭😭😭
And yet somehow you hear more people talk about Charlie
“Corporate needs you to find the difference between these two pictures”
“They’re the same picture”
Pyro can never be insecure, having liking fat farting animals be released about you would make anyone invincible after a while
Why couldn’t he like something normal like tall dark hair busty vampire mommy GF
He's insecure enough to not talk about his stance on kids transitioning tho
@@PPeeDaster I mean he's a TH-camr thinking of his fanbase. It's easy for clown to demand yes/no answers when he doesn't fucking make videos.
@@PPeeDaster it's a nuanced topic when it comes to the condition and he knows how uneducated and toxic people on the internet are lol
he's fine here
Or maybe its a coping mechanism, the hairline proves it
****TIMESTAMPS***
54:46 - Colossal Ad Read
thank you, very helpful
Thanks, I got tired of hearing Pyro say nothing
The best and most important part of every podcast episode
Cheers for that only part worth listening to
I really wanted to hear the ad, don’t care about the rest, thanks o7
Funny Woman Pills
i love women
Lies, it doesn't make you funny (I tried :( )
Got to be the most pyro thing I have ever heard
@@sawyboy6235 Pyro wasn't there, it was his clone, Pybrocynical, Pyro would actually say "Le Funny Woman Pills".
@@spaghetti0356retard
Listen, I get where Pyro is coming from. I actually agree with him for the most part, but holy crap is he bad at articulating his point. His opinion, and more or less mine, is:
“Medical transition, particularly affirming surgeries, can be an amazing thing for the right people, and I hope it is made accessible to people who genuinely need it. However since children may not fully understand the full extent of surgeries, I’m unsure whether or not they should be legal. Unfortunately, there are people who regret surgery, because they didn’t fully realize the extent of their decisions. Whatever the case, people should have an unbiased third-party evaluate their decision, as self-identity is a complicated.”
Legit that’s not that controversial of a take and shouldn’t be that hard to say. I don’t wanna dunk on Pyro, I don’t even watch him. Since I, as well as many people, have that or a similar opinion it sucks to see him fumble so hard. (Also yeah I know that the opinion is a long way of saying “idk”. That’s kinda the point. These are just the reasons why we’re uncertain. Life is complicated and nuanced. We’re not experts.)
THIS, THIS IS THE COMMENT, THAT'S EXACTLY IT
At least from my knowledge, this is more or less the take that most medical associations take on the matter (at least here in the states)
If asked the theoretical problem, this would be a reasonable answer. The question however stands for the legality, and it is too vague for that. What experts/unbiased third party are we talking about? Psychologists absolutely can be biased, and this basically shifts the responsibility of the choice on the “third party”. A clear law would obviously do some harm, but isn’t “better safe than sorry”? Life is complicated and nuanced, and unfortunately oftentimes the nuances are left unaccounted for.
Zooming out though, i absolutely see why the guy’s answer was this vague and i don’t blame him. Better safe than sorry here, too
people don't realize that this sort of transitional care comes in lesser forms as well, surgery is the thing you get after being on treatment for at least a good year (and, likely more) - you have plenty of time to make that decision based on how you feel about your body in the first place, they don't just put you under the knife immediately. surgery isn't going to change your vocal inflection or change your facial hair, it is the end-point of a long process.
they should be allowed to stop at any time, and the negative effects on pedatric growth always should be considered. they should explore social avenues first to see if it feels right, and then go down the list if they choose to continue it.
also if you do any amount of further research youll find that surgery AND hrt are illegal for MOST people under 18 in nearly every country on earth unless you are in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances. If someone thinks they are trans before 18 they MIGHT get to go on puberty blockers which allow them to postpone the hell of going through the "wrong" puberty until they are 18 when they can choose to start hrt/ have surgery if they want to, and something like over 80% of people who start puberty blockers go on to continue their transition which is often presented as a negative even though its not a negative its literally the whole purpose of the puberty blockers in the first place
sneako is definition of "if she can bleed she can breed", i got my first period at 11 bro
9. Buddy of mine was 8 when hers started.
@@ZombiebyProxy It can happen that early!?
@eyalamit5120 yes and sometimes when a period starts that early they put you on puberty blockers to delay it
Fake and gay. Women do not listen to this podcast
@@eyalamit5120yep, Mine was so bad I was on birth control at age 12 to regulate it
these comments are perfectly reflective of the reason pyro chooses to avoid being opinionated. He speaks the least and he gets rinsed for not being vocal enough and not giving his opinion. He talks the most, he gets rinsed for giving his opinion (not even a controversial one, a very sane one), especially on such a sinuous topic that isnt as simple as 'yes or no'.
god forbid someone withhold their judgement and opinions because they know they arent informed enough to form a final conclusion lmao. maybe you lot should do the same
Based comment
Unlucky
He would've been informed if he cared. I hate people who don't give an answer WAY more than the ones who do
Very based comment
Funny enough Nerd does the samething, even more than Pyro, and he still gets shit more often than not.
HONEY WAKE UP!!! THIS YEARS TBH EPISODE CAME OUT!! LAST YEARS WAS SO GOOD!!!
NEXT YEAR WILL BE PEAK TOO!!!
We’ll get GTA VI before we get the next TBH
I dont think it's unreasonable that pyro gave a complicated answer to a complicated issue.
I don't think he gave a complicated answer. I think he repeated himself, avoided the question and beat around the bush a lot to avoid offending his audience (which he implies with his example of the fan meetup). Although I respect people that have some spine, state their views and let their audience judge them for who they are, if Pyro wanted to avoid giving an answer he simply could have been to be the point and stated that he's not comfortable having a take on the topic.
@@nickurban6201he said, in short, with therapy and holes you have to jump through, you should be able to do it before 18. a 16 year old who has already gone through 2 years of therapy should be able to get surgery with a regret rate of 1%. they should be able to do hormone blockers and HRT. he just used a lot of words to say "yes with guild lines and oversight"
@@nickurban6201 I wouldn't say so really, yes he was uncomfortable with the topic but he had the same answer as I would have had.
It is very complicated, there is no black and white.
@@nickurban6201 People's minds don't work in binary; not everything in life is as simple as yes or no, especially not mental health topics.
Fitting people into pre-conceived boxes will only lead to frustration and dissatisfaction.
@@KappaChiino its pretty simple, children cannot consent
Daddy want mint mint ?
the inmates have rediscovered the asylum
People criticizing pyro for “fence sitting” when it’s an actual complex issue that may require more thought than “yes or no” is kinda insane
Can children consent to going on a school field trip? Leaving school early? Having sex? Leaving school on a different bus? No?
Sex change operations? ✅️
Give me a break lol. If it weren't a brownie points issue, absolutely NO ONE, including you, would have this opinion 💀
@@samanthasmith733 Except he didn't say yes. He didn't say no. It's a complex topic with a complex answer and many more nuanced details and variables than just a headline question of "should kids get surgery that change body and not undo?" Ages have to be taken into account and further future issues that can arise from simply barring people off from an age that isn't even specifically declared by saying "children", including what forms of surgery. Is this about bottom surgery? Top surgery? What forms of those surgeries-vaginoplasty? Metoidioplasty? Double mastectomy? Breast augmentation? What about surgery to remove cancerous parts of the body? Surgery to simply fuse bones after an accent? I got that one done when I was just about to turn 14. This isn't even to mention that most of the "trans" surgeries are performed in greater quantity on cis people for genital reconstruction or to fight cancer or even reduce back pain, like with double mastectomies, let alone that only a small handful of trans people actually undergo these procedures compared to the entire trans population. I'm a trans girl and I definitely don't want to go through vaginoplasty or any similar process.
Currently, in most major countries, children cannot undergo elective irreversible medical procedures (of most types, stuff like breast augmentation is still weirdly permitted to girls under the age of even 17, at least in some parts of the US), including (and especially) gender affirming surgery, whether that be top surgery or bottom surgery. It is illegal, regardless of what surgeons violated that legality in the past.
Mucho texto @@CharityApple07
@@CharityApple07 Yeah I'm not reading all that. The question is whether children should be able to undergo surgery, and the answer is no. Also, there's no nuance between the different surgeries other than in targets certain body parts.
What, so children shouldn't be able to sign off on regular surgeries independently permission, but with this there's "nuance??" 😂
So what if it's illegal now? The point of asking the questions is that some people do think it should be legal.
Who exactly are you responding to? You barely addressed anything I said, just went on a tangent about being trans.
Ah, I see my original comment under this was deleted. Nice. It's always the trans issues, isn't it? So strong and independent, and yet so fragile and thin-skinned when confronted with basic arguments. I wasn't even insulting or anything.
That kind of BS is what gets you transphobia, just so you know....
This podcast clearly shouldn't try to tackle serious subjects, the comments here are a cesspool.
Each TH-camr has a different political viewpoint, their fans all come together in this comment section. Having a serious discussion leads to political clash.. its inevitable lol..
Pyro gave a surprisingly in depth answer to the question but people just dismiss him as a fence sitter because they can't listen to someone talk for more than 2 minutes without subway surfers gameplay
We now live in a world where no one can have an opinion that's in the middle of the argument. It's ither one extreme, or the other
I think it's a very hard question to give a yes or no answer to, some questions out there can't be answered with a simple yes or no.
@@ImproperStandby not for Twitter aperently
@@ImproperStandby Honestly, the right answer is that a good therapist needs to be involved. Without a therapist, the answer is no.
As for Sneako's beliefs... Just no. Disgusting man with disgusting views.
no, he's not being honest. he had dysmorphia himself as a kids and is now glad he did not get the surgery he wanted.
so to the question put to him, the honest answer would be no
It's been 31 episodes but i've only now realized
If Colossal does audio-mixing, Dolan does the editing, and Nerd provided the template...
...what does Pyro do?
Add weight
if this is a serious question which it probably isn't lol he got the podcast popular since the other three are either incredibly niche or nobodies
...which was good or bad since pyro's NEW demographic (morons who watch livestreams) don't really mesh with whatever garbage nerd city talks about now
@@indianaliam1 god im glad nerds gone cant have crypto shills anymore
fuck me ive never heard pyro talk so much to say nothing at all
He is trying to say his own opinion without alienating his fans that are in the trans group.
@@dominiciannucci5217 it would make no fuckin' sense anyway since he employs them. If he hated them he wouldn't interact with them period.
Yappocynical.
I think what he's saying makes plenty of sense
@@autoporridgedoesn’t matter
Not every question is as simple as a yes or no.
what? some things can be in between?? some things can’t be explained in 5 seconds??? get outta here lol
@@Octanitrocubane-enjoyer fr 😭
so the answer to 'can kids consent' is 'erm its complicated.." what?
@@grelkie thats not the question but okay.
@@Jikuro_ It's kinda exactly the question. Like treatment as in talking to psychologists and so on is one thing, but actual procedure should by all accounts be off limits to underage people, like there's no discussion here.
Pyro went from roasting children, like Leafy did, to being scared of giving his own opinion.
He's just following his moist idol by being a fence sitter
"How's it going, everyone? Hermadaphrodite here."
No he didnt. Say it how it is. Pyro went from bullying kids to dressing up like a woman live.
It’s a controversial time where expressing your opinions is a lose lose situation on all sides.
@@CarTM tbf he looked hot
Hopefully they transition into a frequent upload schedule
Based
I like how greasy and sweaty sneako looks in the thumbnail
I love this dynamic, it's so dysfunctional.
Pyro is extremely adhd and is trying his hardest to be understanding and accepting and to see things from different perspectives. Which comes off as insane lunatic yapping because he's not good at phrasing himself on the spot.
Nerd understands what Pyro is desperately TRYING to say and is wording it in a much more refined way and trying to explain his pov.
And Colossal is just attacking Pyro as hard as possible.
This always happens. It's really entertaining.
Dolan is usually the voice of the common man in these lol.
Such an astute observation of the whole thing lmao. I get Colossal's frustration in trying to pin down an answer, I get Pyro's difficulty in expressing himself, I get Nerd's earnest desire to help him along with questions he feels might get to the bottom of it faster than Oliver's increasingly antagonistic approach from the frustration, and then Dolan's just there like :))) so i guess we all feel like there's nuance to this eh? And minimising irreversible harm is the goal (irreversible harm being a child taking their own life due to being denied access to any support on one end, and then a child growing into a very distressed adult with potentially similar suicidal ideations due to feeling like they've irreversibly mutilated themselves over decisions made when their brain hadn't fully developed).
@@RealElongatedMuskrat It is extremely rare for someone to regret transitioning. Extremely.
It is very common for trans children to be depressed. This depression can lead to abuse and self harm.
If a child is depressed, then that needs to be treated. When dysphoria is the problem, gender reaffirming care is the proper solution.
@Swift_LN I am aware of this however I know you couldn't know that and it's important for people to be aware of this on general, so this is a very necessary reply! As you stated, thus far the data we have available would imply regret rates for gender affirming surgeries are lower than that of certain elective surgeries like knee surgeries. While it's a younger area of proper study, this is what we know so far (trans people have always existed, decent methodologically sound studies of trans people with large enough sample sizes are a much more recent area of research). It is worthy of discussion that until very recently, gender affirming care was and in many places still is, a hugely uphill battle. This would imply an end result in which those who are able to finally achieve care would have lower rates of regret than easier to access surgeries like breast implants and so on.
@@Swift_LN I also want you to know that I was replying to you and therefore wasn't listening to the pod properly, only to zone back in when the phrase "jacked it to baby yoda" was uttered. You did this to me.
Yeah as someone with adhd, I relate hard to pyro in this one lol
I don't understand this push for a 'yes' or 'no' Pyros explanations made perfect sense
At this rate I’m becoming a hate listener
Not really he just yapped mindlessly
He said himself that if he leaned slightly on one side he would be labeled as supporting the extreme, clearly he has an opinion but he's just scared to alienate anyone
Colossal is just being a dick
The original question by Clown was. "Can children be allowed to undergo surgery if the parents and the child consent to it?" And it's no, children cannot undergo that surgery they have to be an adult for that.
children cannot consent
They absolutely can, it depends on what the thing they would be asked to consent to
@@javsw.1878 weirdo
@@javsw.1878 children do not have the mental or emotional development to consent to serious things. dating, drugs, tattoos... children cannot consent because they are not mature enough to know the ramifications of their actions.
@@javsw.1878 You know why you needed a permission slip to go on a field trip in elementary school? Because children cannot consent. If we can't trust a child to consent on whether or not they want to go on a school function, then we can't trust a child consent to anything.
@@jesss101 That's why medical professionals are used for puberty blockers
Lots of conflict here would be over if someone researched that this kind of surgery is not done on a minor and it takes years to get to that point.
But must be angry 😡
Right but their talking hypothetically about what SHOULD be done rather than what IS done. Same way Sneako is stating his (insane) opinion that kids SHOULD be able to consent to marriage, even though obviously they legally cannot
Yeah Colossal made it completely obvious that he didn't research the topic at all from like the first minute
"Alot of my fans are trans" so I'm going to avoid the question to not upset any type of demographic
I am a fan of pyro I like him but he did dodge the question.
Or maybe he's heard their perspective and understands what they've shared with him and the things he's being asked, as said, cannot be answered with a yes or no :]
@@kellevichylet’s be fucking for real he is terrified of offending these people, that’s it
@@masonmanuel1637 yeah he definitely knows how rabid and on his ass they would be trying to cancel him over having the normal and reasonable opinion that kids should not be getting an unnecessary surgery or taking hrt under 18
@@kellevichy
Maybe he shouldn’t have cultivated a fanbase of troons in the first place
@@spikegamz2756wow, ok buddy. Literally no one gets surgery as a minor and HRT is completely fine.
As a canadian who has worked with trans minors and around the transition process a gp like nerd said can only do affirming care but they have to send you to both a psychiatrist and therapist who specializes in care of lgbt individuals and both your psychiatrist and therapist have to clear you mentally fit to make the decision as a minor you can't get the surgery but they can start you on hormone blockers at 13 with parental permission and since transitioning isn't a medical surgery it's not covered by our free health care so most people can't even afford it anyways and the hormones are a month thing so to even to be able to get it by 13 price aside you'd have to be in therapy and seeing a psychiatrist since you were about 6 or 7 and have and be mentally fit for at least a year and a half to two years and after starting hormone blockers you'd still have to see both professionals for the whole time you're on the blockers till 18 or you stop taking them so it really more depends on your doctors more than your parents
My personal opinion not that anyone cares is that all cosmetic surgeries, serving, marriage, sex, and non medical drug intake should be 21-25 considering the brain doesn't finish till developing then. Whether or not you physically transition does not change if you're trans there are plenty of people who are trans who don't want the surgery it really isn't a mandatory to being trans.
try seperating your thoughts into sentences next time
Thank you for saying this!!
@@blobbbe bro, the comment is barely a paragraph long. Is your attention span really that cooked?
@@Yuki_Seraphim did i say it was too long? if you don’t punctuate sentences at all it makes you look like an idiot or a child, or an idiot child
Colossal argues in such an old head way. Everything is either pitch black or blindingly white to him even when it comes to things where there genuinely is no right answer, and putting Pyro in a corner to say yes or no while disregarding everything he said is so irrational. The fact that I see so many people in the comments who are the same mindset is so disheartening.
at this point idek how these guys are even his friends
jay i understand, but colossal and nerd feel like the opposite type of person that would get along with someone like pyro
He’s correct. Not every issue is so deeply nuanced. You can’t undo blockers or surgery. You can always grow out your hair, do vocal training, adopt new hobbies that fit your personality etc. But as a teen you do not need to go to such drastic measures when you do not know the ramifications and could end up regretting it. Patience is a virtue.
@@sora5061crazy thought but you can still be friends with people you disagree with
@@nutpeg6915 Did you watch the video? He's literally the only one there who thinks that way and the rest explained in detail the nuance involved. Hell, this wasn't even about blockers, what sneako asked was about "chopping off their dicks"
@@nutpeg6915you CAN undo blockers that's literally the point. yk kids go on blockers right? that's literally been there common use for a LONG time. hormone blockers are used when people get there periods years too early. 8 year olds get pubity blockers. it's reversible with HRT. just shove it behind a 6 months of therapywith an age min of 13/14 and boom. yes with guild lines is what pyro said. not "yes" and the yes is the least important part of the statement
I first learned of trans-people when i was 5 years old "I said, okay that's cool" and i stopped thinking about it.
Based normal human response
you know best
Probably because you were 5 and didn't know the full picture, which is what is being discussed in this podcast.
I think everyone would prefer if it was as simple as being gay or something, where there arent serious ramifications when you're younger, but it isnt, and it needs to be discussed.
Naw i knew the full ramifications because when i learned about it i learned about the surgery and the hormones and stuff. And yeah. I didn't care. I just thought it was kinda neat that people could do that. And i continued on with my life.
@@Oscar-ek2jxmore cis gender people take hormones than trans ppl… middle age women take hormones for their menopause and men such as Joe Rogan are taking testosterone to compensate for their lowing hormones.
Young cis gender kids take hormone blockers for decades now when they have puberty start too early that it becomes a medical issue.
Cis gender men, women and children take “trans medication”. Think teens should be able to take blockers and HRT (once medical professionals and therapists agree and family are consulted) government to allow for it to occur but can have oversight.
Regarding surgery… if your nation can use ur body in the military then you can apply for whatever surgery’s you deem appropriate in my view. “I can get shot at by serving for my nation in the army but my nation can’t allow me x/y/z surgery for another 4 years…”
Surgery should be allowed once ur an adult and you go through all the procedures (medical checks and therapy checks).
Diddy vs critical
diddy vs diddy
diddy vs diddy
Diddy vs Bruce Jenner
Dappy want mint mint😊
transfem here
Literally just give informed consent and introspection. Adults are expected to do that before like any plastic surgery. Make sure the individual knows what they're getting into and can express their actual feelings with a professional away from external influence, like parents or such. But surgery is only really an option 2 years after hrt, which at max starts around 16 (when i got mine, before the clinic was closed due to conservative lawmakers)
puberty blockers can prevent symptoms from getting worse if you're still in puberty, growing unwanted facial hair made me want to tear my face off. Puberty blockers are easy to reverse, and if somebody is forced to go down one puberty then they should get to choose at least.
Collosal was not taking their lukewarm responses and I admire that.
Dolan Carries as usual
*thanks for slopping by*
got a few things that might be interesting if you care.
Gender surgery's should not be performed on under 18 yo. However gender care has a lot of levels to it.
1st step generally is social transition, which basically means name change, new clothes, new pronouns, so on so forth.
2nd step will be getting into therapy for mental health help and getting diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
3rd step depending on your age you can get puberty blockers which just puts a pause on puberty at the start of it so the kid doesn't goes through unwanted changes. This is also prescribed to cis kids that have puberty too early. and if the kid realizes that being trans isn't for them, then they can just stop taking it and puberty resumes as normal.
4th step around 16-18 depending on where you live, you can start HRT after getting your blood tests done and what not.
5th step isn't some to happen 100% of the time. between 4-13% of trans people actually get bottom surgery according to UVA health. But if the trans person wanted bottom surgery then they would be able to get it as an adult.
This process can take years especially if your country has a slow as fuck health/mental system like NZ or UK. speaking from experience. been socially trans for 3 years and haven't gotten to step 2 yet. but I hopefully will cuz I'm turning 18 next year.
Edit: they ended up talking about most of what I just said so fuck me ig.
i think its sad that all the nuance of your comment wasnt really mentioned in their arguments, they were basically just saying "before 18 yes or no?", meanwhile its a much more complex topic, which they aren'teducated on
@@lesbiacrus yeah it is a little painful to listen to but i can kinda understand with them not being trans
@@bbbmd2007 then i feel like they should either inform themselves better or just not talk about it like authority figures, it just propagates those ignorant opinions to their fanbase which is 99% cis.
@@lesbiacrus yeah true actually, the guy that said " they're lying just the hormone blockers being reversible" made me very mad because ik where he got that info from and ik how to easily prove him wrong, but im glad they at least didn't dwell on that for too long.
@@lesbiacrus Why would it be mentioned when that wasn't the question? No one argued that you aren't allowed to seek other form of treatment before 18, the crux of the question was entirely on the surgery part, which as the OP even wrote, IS very black and white.
nerd city don't have a meltdown challenge
im trans and this is really painful to listen to. unfortunately it seems all of them dont really know what theyre talking about, and thats fine but heres some education
trans kids are definitely real, i was one of them (im an adult now obviously). not all of them are forced into being trans by their parents, or doing it for attention. there is an astronomical difference between getting srs (sexual reassignment surgery), having hormone blockers/replacement, and socially transitioning. being trans doesn't mean "getting your meat snipped", it means being who you want to be openly, regardless of physical appearance. physically transitioning is a whole other thing that a lot of us don't even go through with, but it doesn't make us any less trans
These people don't want to know actual facts.
me too, and agree.
holy shit based comment
Thank you
to be fair, pyro not knowing what he's talking about is not a rarity
I could fucking hear pyro sweating through the screen holy shit this was hilarious.
"Should children be able to have experimental height surgery?"
"Well uh- You see uhm, uh... Have I ever told you about my fetishes?"
Niall "Sunak" Cumass
Is it ok to do crack ?
Pyro : what do we think of it, guys ?
Pyro: it's complicated like i don't know if i would do crack but i would ask around... i have a lot of fans who do crack so like maybe i'm biased
@@jesss101 he’s biased because he only does fent
hed probably be roasted more for this fence sitting than the trans one
@@BearAfterABear its a very complicated topic and thefact that the situation was represented completely incorrectly didn’t make it easier
If you're an adult and you wanna do crack you should be able to do crack. You should be able to do any drug you want legally once you're an adult. I am for legalizing all drugs completely because if Alcohol which is already worse than like half of banned drugs can be legal, so can other drugs
Pyro try to have an opinion challenge level impossible
Yeah cause this is definitely the place to have a conversation about the medical field stuff and the different understandings between American and British medicine regarding trans ppl with the differences between procedures and meds that are used by non trans people (hormone blockers and HRT and testosterone being used by more non trans ppl than trans ppl for instance) no shit.
Surgery for trans people should be left till they are of the age to serve in the military, if you can die for ur nation you can medically do what you want with ur body (within legal means)
almost like the trans issue is too nuanced for random youtubers to give an opinion
@@meatymateo705 no matter how nuanced things are people are still allowed to have opinions
Pyro is literally regarded, he said lava was valiantly defending Ava like wtf? He knows nothing about what he’s talking about. I can’t stand him
@@elijahschmidt8382 I do really like pyro but he just didn’t answer a question this one podcast apart from that he is fine
crazy how not being an extremist is fence sitting nowadays
You can be on the middle of the autism- i mean political spectrum, and then criticize both sides. But that also gets double the hate and only real fuckin legends are in that middle sweet spot.
Oh my god I can't wait to hear Dolan Dark's succulent voice, echo throughout my ears holy moly stop stop stop i cant no more oh my
Horny jail
I think our current culture is so oddly obsessed with trans people, we are less than 1% of the population, theres better things to worry about tbh.
It's mainly because it's been pushed by media. If Lgbtq weren't all over the place, no one would really care. Any bad case involving them wouldn't be mainstream.
real we are NOT a threat
disgusting
blind, so very blind, you truly live in an echo chamber
I'm still trying to decipher what this means @@dyskilz
Before 18, no go. Once youre an adult you can do whatever you want. Clown has the correct take.
dappy want mint mint
"funny woman pills" thanks pyro i feel so validated
you are disgusting
I honestly think critikal just hasn't put any thought in the idea of transitioning and upon being pressed he chose what he thought was fine to say. I don't really believe him saying that on the spot he'd already know the age of what an SCO was and I could be wrong. It's obvious critikal was not prepared for the question and the backlash is extreme but it is a double standard for that debate. and now it's probably best for him to never bring it up again since he did clarify that he still thinks children are fine to undergo the processes (horomone treatments and such) to transition in that response he made if they and the parents consent.
Like anyone should be listening to him about something like this in the first place, he should have refused to answer. At least that would have been honest.
Yeah, but the majority of people in the world are dead against children transitioning. When the TRA's tried to push this a few years ago, even other leftists vehemently attacked them over it. He basically said the fringe radical take, rather than the actual centrist take which is HELL NO.
As someone that transitioned at 16, I don't think Colossal understands the sheer amount of checks you have to go through in order to even start hormones. I had to get multiple second opinions, consent from my parents, and a written diagnosis of gender dysphoria over the course of 6 months. I had plenty of time to consider the consequences of what I did and was repeatedly informed of the possible side effects, but still went through with it anyways because I was confident that it would benefit me.
I understand Colossal concern that kids aren't able to understand the ramifications of transitioning but throughout the actual experience of my transition, I was given a plethora of opportunities to reconsider. I appreciate pyro standing up for us though
yeah and I came out YEARS ago, and I'm still waiting on even getting to diagnosing my dysphoria because the swedish healthcare system is awful.
Good insight
This is clowns worst moment imo, he really compared trans surgery to underage drinking, I don't think I've ever rolled my eyes so hard.
i respect your experience, but there are many children who have not had that experience and just get immediately affirmed and prescribed without those checks. people who got surgeries without proper mental health checks. your experience is good to hear, that there are people it works out for, but there are so many people it has failed. if you check the rising rates of detransitioners you can see it clear as day. maybe the solution isn't ban but definitely major reform
also, this next point is not applied to you, but it's possible to be inaccurate about a worldview for a long period of time. for example, people who were certain religions for years, then realize their worldview was not accurate. children especially can have shifted views as they are figuring things out. so, those checks may not actually stop anyone because they can just stick with it for a long time and still be inaccurate
Yeah, all of them come from this in a place of privilege. They don’t know his inefficient and how much the world is against *us* nor the extent of this disorder to be helped. It’s not something you can wait for till you’re an adult (for care in general) because it’s torturous to go through puberty, and worst to get to the irreversible end.
The argument “why not wait” made my centrists like we see here comes from a perspective that is clear they don’t know what it’s like, and really how could they?! But because people like this make the decisions, and it is the most common ‘progress’ consensus I’m afraid to say suicide rates will sky rocket
finally, a cloud yells at an old man
Pyro is kinda right even though the comments are shitting on him, there is no definitive answer to the question only different scenarios playing out with different long therm consequences, we can never evaluate what is going to happen definitely
The correct answer is “no”. Children can’t consent to taking drugs, drinking alcohol or having tattoos. They simply can’t make major life decisions or taking drugs that literally stunt hormones and will occasionally take away your right to reproduce.
The comments are pretty ignorant on trans issues. Surgery doesn't happen for minors, and there is a very lengthy process with lots of check from medical professionals to just get hormones, with plenty of chances to back out
If you can’t get a tattoo at 12 because you’re too young to alter your body so drastically then gender surgery is an absolute no go. That is the question being asked and the answer is so obvious but female sisters like pyro are too scared to say it.
@@masonmanuel1637 Gender surgery doesn't happen with minors
@@shrisiva4016It's still genital mutilation, and children still shouldn't be able to have such surgeries until they're no longer children
I think I have a solution for age of consent and transition thing.
It’s all about sex, so ban sex.
B-but Sex With Hitler 2 is so much fun. What will I play if I can't play Sex With Hitler 2?
@@waltch5711😦
@@waltch5711 you play SWH 3
@mocha6145 True, but how about lie to everyone there’s no sex or gender at all, I think that might works as well.
I mean, you can’t be upset about something you have no concept of, right?
@@ursowrongwrongisaidwe are already seeing that, it doesnt help trans people because it's body dysmorphia and nothing else. even if we lose the term for women they are still going to want to look like the opposite gender b
im about half an hour into the video and i wanna point out two things.
1: beginning a transition as a child is not comparable with getting irreversible surgery. it usually starts with the person going on puberty blockers, in most cases until they are adults. if the person changes their mind and realizes that they arent trans, they simply get off puberty blockers. if not, the gender affirming care will proceed. those puberty blockers do no irreversible damage to a child who may turn out to not be trans. as for bottom surgery, it should never be available to minors, but thats besides the point since it isnt anyway.
2: drag is not a fetish. its a hobby, similarly to cosplaying.
that intro was so uninformed it was baffling. No one seemed to have any idea what they talking about but insisted on talking about it
I kindda agree with pyro with treatment. Like we know we dont want kids to drink because alcohol just sucks, its not a core personality trait or identity to like drinking alcohol (and if it is you almost certintly need help). But wanting to transition can be, but its something also dangerous and I think ultimitly pyros answer to the question is "Yes, but with an informed third party and also enough time for the person to ascertain that their very much serious about this and its not some kindda phase or misdirected thinking." It is an answer. Its just not one that can be crammed into a simple Y/N to cover everything. Now, getting surgery, I say bar till 18/adult.
Leave the kids alone... why do you guys want this so much..?
@@MathiasGlendrange you're so stupid i genuinely can't tell whether this is a bit or not. you're media literacy is down the fucking drain
The third party thing is kinda stupid from him because it is literally impossible rn to confirm whether or not a kid is actually trans or anyone for that matter with any method.
Yeah but Pyro doesn’t know how to be concise. That’s why he makes 15+ min videos to explain simple drama while Dolan can make a video about the same thing in 2min 🦆
@@MathiasGlendrange You're the one ignoring the research that helps kids. Why you do hate trans kids so much?
12:00 “Give me a yes or no answer for an incredibly complicated question that depends entirely on the situation of each individual”
“Can’t do that, that’s oversimplifying a huge issue”
“WTF man come on just give me an answer it’s not that hard”
that felt like a not inconceivable number of incidents
Literally name a single instance where a different situation would change the actual topic at hand here. It's not a complicated question in the slightest. Underage people shouldn't be allowed to consent to things which are so detrimental, other form of treatment is a whole another story and you CAN discuss nuance there, but the question Colossal asked had no room for nuance, it was as black and white as asking "can underage people consent to sex", like giving a bs vague ass yappilicious answer with the whole "well urm it's actually complicated and depends on the individual and I don't have any actual answers, but let's just say it's out of your pay-grade lil bro" isn't a good look there.
If a person can't get a tattoo until they are 18 the same should apply with both life changing surgeries and puberty blockers
Always was a dumb comparison
@@Bareq_99 yeah tattos alteast just make you look dumb, those surgeries can fuck a person life up
people regret tattoos more than gender affirming care. also, puberty blockers are not permanent. you can literally just get off of them.
@@Sgt.Paprika exactly if puberty blockers are not permanent then trans KIDS should have no problem waiting until they are 18
Where I live you can get a tattoo at 14 with parental consent so take that as you will...
Seen some people dunking on Pyro being a fence sitter about the trans thing but, I do see what he's going for. The parents are a huge factor when it comes to children's decision making and it follows them when they age, even if they disagree later on. Really depends on the environment they grow up in and if that process is worth it for the long term.
I think that how parents raise their kid is the single most important factor in a childs life. It can literally mean that the child either grows up successful or a criminal. Parenting is the root of the problem and it should be adressed instead of making sex change surgeries legal for children
the fact that this comment has 8 likes proves that we're living in clown world. How absolutely disgusting how some people justify their degenerate views.
What? Nuanced decision making? In MY comment section of a video that mentioned trans people? Unacceptable!
Childhood transition is like childhood ADHD. Not getting proper treatment can fuck your entire life up. But, doctors did use to massively overprescribe ADHD to any slightly energetic kid, and give them Adderall, which would fuck up those kids. The solution was ultimately to sharpen the edges of what ADHD was, and improve the diagnosis process.
i can partly agree with this. the "affirmation model" of gender treatment is shit. medical professionals need to get back to what matters- dysphoria. and determining if the dysphoria is caused by being trans or something else.
but also, i grew up with undiagnosed adhd and i wouldn't say it came close to fucking my life up. everyone is different, yes were things hard? sure. but we all get by.
How does not getting on stimulant drugs as a child fuck you up for life, exactly? Worse grades in school? Hmm...which is worse...
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and I did just fine without meds. Maybe I would have done better with them, but I don't think that should have happened when I was fucking ten. Insanity.
@@jesss101 I don't think your argument countered any argument I made. You just said things because you want to win an argument. PS, ADHD sure did fuck up my life, several times.
@@jesss101 It's fine that you got by while having ADHD and never been diagnosed, (at least as a child) BUT you're not every single person that has ADHD right? You are just using your own life experiences to tinge your whole view of undiagnosed "problems"
I have been battling with depression and suicidal ideation my whole life, since I was in elementary school. I've done fine enough, I haven't attempted a single time, but I have come significantly close to actually attempting, and I think that getting diagnosed would've helped me a lot to actually effectively dealt with those emotions, and it would've led me to not be an "outcast" for the majority of my life, just because I was "different" from everyone else. It just sucks being gay, trans, or autistic in 3rd world countries, you are just kind of stuck with whatever cards god gave you, so i believe, that your views although not evil, you are just coating a complex topic with a single brush stroke with a single can of paint.
16:47 Isn't this just misinformation? When I look up what the regulations in Canada are, I get a set of rules that doctors HAVE TO follow before they're even allowed to administer gender-affirming treatment. Note how this directly contradicts Nerd's claim that the doctors aren't allowed to question a patient's self-diagnosis. They are required by law to question the self-diagnosis.
Name a better Duo, Transphobia and lying.
Those Canadian regulations are for their socialized medical system. Nothing bc stops wealthy Canadians from paying for additional medical care. Also many of them just come here to the US. I live in NY & tons of Canadians come to our hospitals
@@scarletsletter4466 Ah sorry, I just found a source that was biased against trans people and claiming to give an overview of the law, when it was actually giving an overview of the health care system. Turns out transphobic sources are still inaccurate when they give information that hurts their cause.
(for reference, the Aristotle report claims: "No province or territory in Canada allows “bottom” (male or female genital reassignment) surgery for applicants under the age of 18", but I couldn't find a different source confirming this)
But in either case, my point stands: Nerd claims it's forbidden to question children's self-diagnoses on the topic of surgery, when it's actually *standard practice* not to do surgery on children in the first place, so the truth is something that is vastly different from and mutually exclusive with what he said.
@@spaghetti0356trans and game ending
@@spaghetti0356got it, trans people and GG’ing themselves
Petition to bring back the beeps in the intro when colossal says "A show with a clown, a nerd, a duck and a degenerate.
Colossal being unable to understand this conversion has a lot more nuance than a simple yes or no answer is pretty revealing
@@Kaileeee17 kids shouldn’t be subjected to life changing medicine lmao this is not a hard topic to discuss
@chapman2001 The fact that you immediately assume that's my stance on this shows you aren't willing to engage with this conversation in good will. Have a nice day.
The topic itself has nuance, but that wasn't his question. The question was about whether the underage could consent to a life-altering procedure, there's no room for nuance there, it's too detrimental for it to be there. Obviously other form of treatment is another thing, and acceptable, but a full-on surgery, it's a pretty simple answer, what nuance could there possibly be there?
@@chapman2001 not really that simple though is it? what about things like the situation (it's happened a few times now) where there's a drug that can save a life, but the government won't authorize treatment because it's potentially dangerous and the person in question is a child? or schizophrenia medication which can inflict separate permanent effects? not even talking about trans healthcare, just that people seem to make sweeping statements when they probably wouldn't question a child with schizophrenia being given medication
I've had an ex friend who wanted to get a leg lengthening surgery. He was in his twenties. That's insane.
pyro is just trying not to make his fans offended lmao
real talk, it’s kinda clear y’all don’t ow much about the topic of transitioning and that’s perfectly fine! learning is everything. but it’s slightly upsetting how little most of you know about it, you’re saying things in the tone of ‘this should be how it is!” when that’s LITERALLY how it is and implying it’s not like that. so pleaseeeeee do some research before a topic!! kids (18 and under) HAVE to go to gender therapy, talk to doctors extensively etc etc, only for HORMONES. you can’t get surgery as a child for gender affirming care!! - a trans guy!!
i AM very happy you are talking about this topic!! it’s very interesting to hear what others think but i beeegggg of you to make sure to not imply anything bad, we already have it really rough at the moment lmao
Bro colossal is coping so fucking hard. It's not like a child says "I want to transition" and goes straight to taking HRT. There is a thorough psychological evaluation and shit
My sweet summer child 😅
@@mlgcactus1035brainlet
A "psychological evaluation" in which the therapist is required by law to encourage the mindset of the patient. And if not, they are at risk of losing their license for doing an anti-conversion therapy.
@@trickstabber8117 ????? Please educate yourself on how does the psychological evaluation works. It requires multiple visits over a span of few months to a year.
@@ChilliConKaren "Educate yourself" coming from somebody who clearly isn't educated on the matter himself. I've done my research and what I explained to you is 100% true. It's even mentioned by NerdCity in this very podcast. You got something in your ears?
It's just so wild to be straight and cis and never have that questioned because like.. you inherently know if you are cis and straight, right? But someone who isn't cis and/or straight has to "logically" just "wait it out" (to 25 apparently, lol?) because "your body changes." Like let me know when you grow out of your straightness, gang.
“Funny women pills” 😭😭😭😭😭
Lmaoooo
Timestamps:
34:11 Pyro finishes fence sitting
My dumb hot take...we'd be better served as a society to stop assuming that just because a boy takes interest in girl things it MUST mean they are trans.
By all means, I think adults should have access to gender affirming surgeries, but perhaps prior to becoming an adult we should just follow the kid's lead by letting them explore toys/media/whatever without shaming them for enjoying something "girly"
Not saying gender dysphoria isn't real BUT I think a lot of people do the obsession thing like Pyro and the height surgery when it's really just insecurity or whatever about not exactly fitting into "boy norms"
Let them explore without stigma, but you don't need to push heady adult issues like gender surgery onto them unless THEY are the ones that bring it up. Then you can start the whole psych eval process to make sure it's legit gender dysphoria and if it persists when they come of age, BOOM, now they can get the surgery and move forward with their new life.
Funnily enough there was some movement in that direction back in the 2010's, but as is common with progressivism it swung further to the left, that became the current thing, and it purity spiraled out
For sure! 2 of my teenage daughter's friends wanted to be trans 4 years ago. Last year they both decided they didn't want to be trans anymore. Luckily they weren't allowed to do permanently body modifications.. One of them actually wanted top surgery. One of them started out as non binary, then wanted to be male and then back to non binary and now she's fine with being a girl. They're all 18 now.
I mean, every adult has been a kid before it's weird that some of us forgot that we just wanted something because it was an option or it was trending then move on to the next one
Too long didn't read unlucky
The femboys who’ve been pressured into transitioning (I’ve known at least a few) agree
Dude got bullied off his own podcast 😂 smoking that Nerd City pack
Nerd city carries this podcast. The other three never say anything productive they beat around the bush when he’s gone. Ill be honest he did sperg out but he still makes good content
@@lakime7511sperge* also, don't degrade Colossal okay? he carried the memorable funny moments for me...
Slopping today? 👀🔥
@@lakime7511if Nerd carries the discourse so hard maybe he should go start his own podca- ohh wait. lol
Very interesting episode. I enjoy when you're just fooling around and having fun, but discussing topics in a more nuanced way is very interesting to listen to as well. The downside is I can't just go and do something else while running the video in the background, I had to sit down and listen closely because I didn't want to miss anything XD
Nerd city is currently crashing out 😂
I'm only around 15 minutes into this episode, so I hope things changes later on but oh my god Colossal is being so incredibly bad faith with his questions. Nobody is expecting kids to go through surgery for their gender dysphoria. It just simply doesn't happen. All we want is appropriate psychiatric help from qualified therapists, and puberty blockers so that they can put their puberty on hold long enough for them to make a final decision when they're old enough for it with significantly better results for them since they didn't have to go through the puberty of their born sex. It's also worth pointing out that the effects of puberty blockers are entirely reversible as a person can simply stop taking them and their puberty will resume.
Discussions like this are always so frustrating to me because none of the people on this podcast know enough about what they're talking about to be able to have a real discussion about it. All of their points are simply based on assumptions and things they think they've heard. We need to be learn to be willing to admit that we don't know enough about something to make an informed comment on it, and if we don't know enough, either don't talk about it, or learn about it. Half-baked topics like this do nothing but hurt people.
Edit: Watched through the whole thing now and yeah I've lost a lot of respect for Colossal and Nerd City because of this episode. A lot of completely baseless points were made by them with complete confidence on their end instead of just admitting they don't know. Very disappointed.
TL;DR + YWNBAW
@@-ALTERNATOR Are you a human to being with
Big agree, people once again adding their opinions on something they don't know enough about. Pyro was stuck in a very tough position, trying to empathise with both sides while trying to navigate a very hostile environment and bad faith questions. Kids don't get surgery, ever. That's the way it should be. It's a bad faith talking point to say kids are getting parts chopped off when that just isn't true.
@@-ALTERNATORGen alpha really does have a cooked attention span oh my lord.
@@pinkpanikvt Literally not true, my dad knows someone who’s kid had a double mastectomy at 16, I’m in cali
Pyro should become a politician
As a 21 years old trans person living in a 3rd world country where I could not get gender affirming care nor surgery without jumping through hoops; I do think at least 18 for surgery is best but before that, you can socially transition and see if that's what you want. I've always known I was trans or not my assigned gender even before I found out what it meant- before internet, before even being exposed to anything queer. I felt like something was wrong and hated being perceived as my assigned gender.
I also hit puberty at 8 and looked older/taller than children my age so Sneako thinking children that has hit puberty being able to consent with their parents permission made me feel utter disgust. It already happens in 3rd world countries like mine for money and is FAR more widespread than gender affirming surgery on minors.
inb4 "tldr" because god forbid someone decides to engage with content under le funny podcast
The problem is not social transition, is puberty blockers and hormone treatment
@@baylegoits an answer to the question asked in the podcast dude
I share the same thoughts, but I'll also add that they should not do the meds (treatment or blockers. Not familiar since I'm not exposed to it) until at least 18 as well. After that, it's all on them.
Edit : added the bracket
I also agree that social transition should be considered first before jumping immediately to puberty blockers and the like. I read another comment that said the attending psychiatrist and doctor need to constantly check in with the child taking on puberty blockers so if this is the case a constant and consistent, diligent check-in should definitely be the minimum. Personally I really don't think these should be made an option for children until they reach 18-20 of age though.
Stop the gay
Pyro vs Inflation
I think that Nerd's take on internet restrictions for kids was really good and nuanced, I think It's really important that the label of "this could have stuff that isn't safe" is really good
A good thing about trans affirming care is that it is not black and white. There are many options before any permanent change. There is social transitioning where a kid is called by their preferred pronous, possibly even dressing up differently or changing their name. There is also hornone blockers to prevent puberty, it doesn't cause permanent damage and halts unwanted changes like mammary growth or hair on various body parts. This can be very stressful for a trans kid and gives them more time to think. Like this unwanted growth can cause sh or life ending thoughts. Because puberty is also a permanent change and requires medical help to reverse. Voice training can also help with sounding more masc or fem without the need of hormone medication.
In all, I believe as a trans man that kids should be allowed to medically transition after heavily consulting with their medical professional, getting multiple opinions from others, and should be at the min min 16. With the reasoning being life or death. Many other trans people also agree with taking hormone blockers and waiting till old enough.
A convo about a blanket statement of yes or no by 4 cis straight men that barely know the topic is very silly. 😅
Pyro with his leg lengthening story is very simply explaining why all kids go through body dysmorphia at puberty and almost all kids progress passed it. This is a social epidemic like every decade has except here children are doing irreversible damage to themselves.
Hate to break it to you but wanting to be taller VS feeling like you're in the wrong body aren't quite the same thing, as Pyro even said himself. I fully agree that yes, a lot of kids struggle with dysmorphia and it is usually something they will grow out of by the time puberty finishes, dysphoria is different to dysmorphia and will continue even after puberty has ended. However due to the similarities between dysphoria and dysmorphia, I fully believe that any permanent changes (such as surgeries) should wait till the individual is an adult so they can make an informed decision. Here in New Zealand, you have to wait a good year or so in most cases before a doctor will even prescribe you hormones, and even after that the waitlist for surgeries is years and years long, to help ensure that it's something the individual definitely wants and isn't something they'll change their mind on. With that as well, you have to get multiple doctor approvals stating that you do in fact have gender dysphoria in order to medically transition
Body dysmorphia ≠ gender dysphoria. Just because you're seeing trans people more publicly right now doesn't make the existence of trans people a "social epidemic" lmao
@carous3lcos yes I agree with me as well thank you lol wait until adult brain is locked in seek psychiatric help and advice from multiple doctors and practically 0 surgeries will occur
Did this podcast die?
One of the members left so maybe
That was fucking delicious! Eggs on toast.
I appreciate Nerd talking about the difference between "proof" and "evidence", in my language (Dutch) "proof" and "evidence" translate into the same term ("bewijs"), it has never occurred to me that those words might be used differently because in my vernacular it quite literally does not exist (or it does but it's some obscure courtroom-specific word I've never heard of).
Evidence can be pieces, like data used together to reach a conclusion, that could be proof. But yes, the words are different in English. It’s actually 1 of the key differences and reasons why in international business we like to sign a contract that says English translation governs, even if we choose a neutral jurisdiction of governing law, with venue at The Hague for example. It’s common for all the parties to want English language since it lets us get the most precise legal terms in the contract
evidence kan toch ook vertaalt worden met bewijsmateriaal?
@@aidantje2473 goed punt, ik heb die term persoonlijk nog nooit gehoord (of ik kan het ten minste niet herinneren), maar het klinkt correct.
Pyro: *Elaborates on a complex topic with insightful and thought provoking opinions*
Colossal: yes or no tho
Bruh what insight? He was yapping for minutes and occasionally saying stuff no one disagrees with like "underage people SHOULD get some form of treatment or start with the hormonal stuff" and the only thing Colossal asked the yes or no about was the life-altering surgery shit, which yeah, that isn't nuanced at all, everyone agrees that that's naturally off limits.
colossal is so based in this one, he's always based but this one hits hard
lmao so it's based to ask leading questions and throw a fit when he doesn't get the answer he wants? ok
@@kellevichy
*Yes*
The voice of reason here
@@kellevichyis the “fit” in the room with us?
@@noobien5830Yes
The CEO of slop struggles with having an opinion about a range of topics for 1 hour, 32 minutes and 22 seconds.
He doesn’t want to be cancelled but his opinion isn’t worth canceling him
😂 it’s funny to hear him flounder but OTOH it’s mad depressing that we live in a time where folks are scared to say “let’s not sterilize minors with elective procedures, just wait til they’re adults”
It's not the medical consensus lol. Believe it or not it doesn't actually matter what we think that much, it's the md's and research that says gender Affirming care is fantastic for those with dysphoria...
@@lunachurro6411 You're so right. I love Dr. Fauci and Science. Oh my science. I LOVE IT! I LOVE SCIENCE!
@@lunachurro6411Yes, because doctors are always correct about morality, especially when they financially benefit from prescribed hormones!
I actually can’t finish this video it’s sad the lack of research done and the lack of talking to people experiencing the topics talked about as a trans person I’m disappointed
yeah its clear that colossal never even watched the full sneako/critikal "debate" or critikals response to it. Sucks that he cant even watch a video, while we have to live with the backlash of his opinions.
No normal trans person defended cris tyson, no normal person defended sneako. I just wish they would do their research before debating real peoples lives.
Pyro copies Charlie so hard that he even copies Charlie’s NPC glitching when asked to give an opinion
Mfw a situation has nuance so I can’t just say yes or no 😡😡😡
You can undo a marriage if you have regrets but can you undo blocking puberty, injecting testorone and inverting your genitals, if you have regrets ?
@@RomeoHatesShrimp
Pyro: *windows blue screen sounds*
@@AlienRino
There is no nuance. There is only the correct answer, which is that kids shouldn’t be allowed to troon out.
@@ManHamOrigins youll grow out of it kiddo
Honest answer to the surgeries thing?
I think it's really one of those "it really depends on the case" - I've struggled with gender stuff my whole life, and then transitioned in my late 20s, but I was 15 when I realized how awful my body made me feel.
I had a doctor sorta try to push me through transition when I first came out, and it really scared me that things WERE permanent, so I went to therapy for a while. I put things on pause for almost 5 years, first out of shame, then out of fear. Therapy really helped me realize that this WAS right for me, but like
I still needed to see multiple different therapists & doctors first.
So I feel like it's legitimately case by case basis - I think some people mature differently than others & life experiences affect all that, but also brains and bodies work differently, and giving one sweeping answer of "yes all kids should" or "no no child should" doesn't feel like it fits the actual issues.
I just don't get why a surgery is the most necessary and the most important thing for transitioning. Is having a cock or a pussy gonna fix your life? I think what trans people should do is what you did. Therapy is much more important than having a surgery that could change your whole life permanently.
I've also heard a lot of stories about botched surgeries of people who went abroad for the surgery and their stories are really disturbing.
One of your doctors pushing the issue is why we need to, at least at the moment, have a blanket ban on these kind of surgeries specifically for gender reasons and not for physical health reasons. If the system could be trusted to not push this for what they believe to be moral reasons, or for financial reasons, then we could do it on a case by case basis. But there's hospitals that fund their whole year of operations off of doing these surgeries on minors, and either they, or their insurance, will have to pay these hospitals for the rest of their life for treatment, whether they continue on as they are post surgery, or if they try to de-transition. Until there is a serious reformation? No until they're 18.
@@FablesTold Fucking on point. When did the left become pro big pharma? Just LARP that your trans and take a few hours to look online, on reddit, etc. to see how easy it would be for you to get HRT. I don't know where your from but see how easy it is in a lefty state. It's pretty much the same process to get hair loss treatment or the process to get a medical card for marijuana back when that was still necessary. Like, you see Dr Feelgood over zoom for 15 minutes and next thing you know your fast tracked to a prescription. It's crazy to see left wing people that are normally extremely skeptical of the free market libertarian approach endorse this kind of thing. Does the medical industry care about the ongoing opioid crisis? What about the amount of botched cosmetic surgeries given to desperate people? People mutilate themselves beyond recognition just to escape their own bodies. It's a messy, disgusting business and I hesitate to say adults should even be allowed to take these kinds of risks for cosmetic reasons, but I am content to have that be a personal opinion rather than policy. Kids though? That should be an obvious choice.
It’s practically impossible to start medically or surgically transition under the age of 18 anyway (as a trans person) it’s so difficult to do it’s a dumb argument as less than 1% of people can do it at that age and less than 1% of trans people regret transitioning anyway
The fact that the UK is soooo far behind the US makes this topic weird also.
Let alone the difference in how each nation regards the age at which you become an adult etc etc
45% 5-7 years post transition
@@rusi6219 ?
Main reason why ppl don’t live long after transitioning or they transition back is due to social factors
@@raquetdude sure buddy
@@raquetdude also nice shifting of goalpost
people need to learn that hormone therapy is a reversible transition method! things like top surgery isnt, so there should be variables in every case and each case should be treated with risk assessments specific to each child. it is just a stupid and unnecessary conversation to define laws around this stuff because every case is different.
This show was fun while it lasted. I hope they resolve their issues and continue. Good episode to end with if not.
Pyro actually spoke this episode
For the first time I agree with the fat furry fetishist british man, it's incredibly complicated to take a stance on such topics. Good podcast.
Leave the kids alone. It isn't that complicated.
Sneako alt account @@MathiasGlendrange
@@MathiasGlendrangeyes leave the kids alone but i knew kids who sought out hormones in secret from their parents
@@MathiasGlendrangelets also stop treating kids who have cancer because they cant consent to treatment
@@omarsabir1210 Sneako wants kids to get married to adults... Sneako wouldn't want them to be left alone ret.ar.d
I think the most important variable that everybody seems to forget is the fact that trans kids DON'T GET SURGERY.
Puberty blockers pause puberty in a REVERSIBLE way, giving the kid time to decide and get therapy to figure out if that's the path they wanna take. That's the protocol for care for trans kids.
Also mad respect to pyro for navigating that really difficult position. It's hard to answer when caught between 2 very charged armies. I wish everyone would just learn about what they're talking about before making a snap decision.
children do get trans surgery. in the netherlands a girls is suing the state for removing her breasts at 15. i hate you people
@@nickbrowning3270Pulling out freak accident just to condemn the whole group you simpleton
@@nickbrowning3270idiot
It's amazing to remember that through all the slop episodes we have of the podcast, all the hosts survived controversy so well and this episode with this heavy of a topic really shows their skill of navigating dialogue to still bring an entertaining show but not burn their entire career down in a single moment
W Colossal, calling out bs left and right.
Pyro getting shit for a pretty decent answer considering the nature of the topic. Its not a yes or no answer. For thise in the UK in order to qualify for surgery you have to have been identifying as the opposite aex for a minimum of 5 years and to be able to prove that you have wanted to transition for the majority of your life. Its not a "I feel like a change" kind of thing and as you get older there are more barriers to it. Its a convoluted and difficult topic and whilst important the level of hate directed towards trans people is ridiculous and only spurred on by the media considering its only 0.5% of the uk population.