God of War - A Remarkable Foundation - Luke Stephens
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ค. 2018
- This video is not intended for those who have not played the game. Sure, you can watch it even if you haven’t but be warned that I’m going to spoil absolutely everything and in the narrative section I’m going to spoil the story of The Last of Us. The goal of this video is to analyze and critique what does and most importantly, what doesn’t work in God of War. There are videos galore discussing how incredible and amazing this game is but there are very few, if any, that seek to point out the good and bad, something crucial for honest evaluation. At times it may seem as though I’m just nitpicking, but at the end of the day, this game is fantastic. If you’re on the edge and unsure of whether you should play this game, just do it. Play it. That’s my inspiration to you. But with that said, this is not a review, it’s not a casual discussion, it’s a critique. I’m not going to describe every basic game function because the assumption is that you are already familiar with it. Basic evaluative statements like “the game looks great” and “sound design is well done” are not going to be found here. Instead, we’re going to break down the game’s story in detail all the way down to a discussion on postmodernism in modern story-telling, and of course the gameplay and what makes it tick.
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TIMESTAMPS
ACT 1: Narrative - 2:31
ACT 2: Gameplay - 31:08
Conclusion - 42:26
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The moment Athena appeared on the boat sent shivers down my spine. Although alot of inspiration came from TLOU I really don't think the separation from Atreus was meant to replicate the feeling of Ellie and Joels separation. I saw it as an advancement of Kratoss character, almost accepting his past and turning it into a strength (using the blades for his own will)....Atreuss illness and kratoss fear of losing him led to this development.
J Walton well said
Being Greek and knowing the history of the Greece and its philosophy, I have to say that Greece has always been about tragedy and loss in a dramatic way that only Greeks have put through their acting,music and thinking. It’s part of our culture. Now, comparing these two games because they have some common details is not exactly accurate. There are gonna be more and more of these games in the future just because it combines drama, justice and the feeling of revenge. As the Greeks has proven from many many stories, tales, historical events. I believe that GOW is spot on, not saying that TLOU hasn’t achieved it but their not to be compared with each other.
This comment
@@ViceVersace Hey......well Ancient Greece always ruled & defeated Ancient Egypt. Greece had so much power ! If Greece take.a financial crash then the rest of Europe will fall. Also be looking out for India....in the next 10 to 15 years India will be a new rising super power country 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
I know this comment is old but I also felt the moment Kratos hands Atreus to Freya, Kratos for the first time looks like he has true fear on his face knowing he could lose him.
When atreus falls ill you realise how usefull he is. If your playing on an easier difficulty fair enough but you certainly notice lack of utility and damage he provides on the harder difficulties.
John Abbott Specially when you're dealing with those damn witches that disappear.
agreed with harder difficulty he is extremely important for revenant when some of them can literally one hit kill you
Fuckin fact dude. Atreus is the homie
YUNUS YAHYA "specially"
Especially when u see those red gems you can't blast without his lightning arrows.
I don’t think the part in GOW where Kratos gets the blades was meant to do the same as TLOU did. That moment didn’t need you to feel helpless. There was an urgency already there and the feeling you feel when he grabs the blades from the floorboards is unlike anything I’ve ever felt in any game. It was masterful. It was epic. TLOU was amazing, but it can’t hold a candle to the remarkable work done in GOW in regards to how the story made you feel. The ending of TLOU is still the best ever in gaming, to me, but throughout the journey I did not get the same feeling, the same connection between father and child, that I did in GOW. What they did was almost poetic in its execution. Every scene felt perfect and I was always excited to experience every line, every next word that would be spoken had me at the edge of my seat in awe. Therefore, to me, that section felt just right. It was beautiful, a father fighting his way through the very gates of hell just to save his son.
I wouldn’t change it for anything.
Cold Arts nicely said!!
Cold Arts great analysis..There is also one huge difference between GOW and TLOU that Luke didn't pay attention to either. In TLOU, Ellie isn't Joel's kid..the entire narrative is about getting Joel to a place where he see's Ellie as his daughter. In GOW it's already established..that Atreus IS Kratos son. TLOU started from scratch whereas in GOW you could see from the first frame that they loved each other. That was the beauty of the whole narrative for me, the unspoken respect they had for eachother.
Maybe its cause you are a BOYYY. Nah but deadass its cause you connected more.
That important moment following Atreus being healed happens in the boat where he finally opens up about his truth.
Not sure how that doesn’t qualify as a pivotal story moments
And you can't say it isn't important or not a revelation to him, even if it isn't a revelation to us. It changes his world view, facilitates character growth and is the second act to his story arc. That and its explicitly stated that his health issues directly stem from him denying his true nature, which in turn leads Kratos to feel responsible for it.
Opening up allows Kratos to begin to identify with his son and begin the process of his work towards keeping Atreus from becoming him. or as he states it, "You must be better than me"
I was yelling that at the phone and he criticized this part!!! Lol
I completly agree
In my opinion, Kratos retrieving the blades is showing that he had to overcome his past for the sake of his son. It wasn't about feeling vulnerable without his son, it was about feeling responsible with what he has done to him.
20:20
THAT WOULDN’T MAKE SENSE LMAOOOO KRATOS KILLED AN ENTIRE MYTHOLOGY BY HIMSELF. He’s not suddenly gonna be weak just because his kid is sick. He got the blades back and is using them to save his kid even though he hated them and himself and the memories they bring for like 7 games not including this one. The only way for what you want to happen is the devs having you play as Atreus which they would’ve gotten even more criticism for if they had done it.
before I go any further, I do take issue with the claim that Kratos had no character arc before this game. The original God of War was very much about tragedy, and loss, and the cost of ambition, and dealing with it - and the rest of the saga took off from there. GoW was one of the original "good stories" - even if it was 10% story and 90% brutal murder - the 10% was very well thought out. He's the character that falls from grace - holy despicable yet sympathetic in a way.
I'm not really sure that we can call literary one phrase, "very angry demigod kills the whole Olympus", a character arc. Game is not what designers put in it, its what players see - and we have seen a bald superman with hatred to all divine. His reasons were so weakly written that no one even gave a single damn about them. Ever.
Bearded Kenshiro isnt that a good thing? afterall from your description, it sounds like it did immerse the player since Kratos didnt care about those things either.
Lucky Plays he was a one dimensional character tho , fucking hated him in God Of War III , he literally kills a girl just to open a door in a section
Hades I mean if you played or watched what the gods were doing and fucking around with him in the psp games even the 1st game where they promised to take away his memory but FUCKIN lied the whole time 1 small girl isn't gonna stop you from taking out your anger. I guess it was the whole mythology thing the developers were planning for him to kill the WHOLE pantheon of Greek gods and mythology. even Posidens princess. The GOW 3 was like finally getting back at em you know. still Gow3 was a great accomplishment for gaming at it's time. But I understand where you're coming from.
Lucky Plays The main writer said that Kratos was basically characterless my nigga
I don’t understand how the ending was anticlimactic. That final boss fight with Baldur was epic. And shows how far Atreus has grown as a character.
I have to disagree with you on the part about when Kratos is left alone. The impact of that moment in Last of Us feel different because it is a game about loss and the building of that relation between Ellie and Joel. The moment that Kratos is left alone and the reason why for me that moment felt as (or more) powerful is that Kratos has to make his peace with his past in order to save the future and when he get on the boat that the sky turn red, it is in his mind that he feel that who he is and was is kind of coming back for him. When he picks up the Blades and speak to Athena saying that he still a demon but now he is his own demon I really felt the character growing and finally kind of accepting his past ready to move on and redeem himself by saving his son. Otherwise love you essay and your work in general but I would suggest that you stop your comparison between LoU and GoW because fundamentally these two games tell a different characters story. (Sorry if some of my phrase are misplaced or confusing, English is not my first language)
but my friend your English is better then mine in-terms of writing
And in that moment of Atreus being out told the fan base he’s going to loss another child because remember Ares placed his daughter in a town far away from Sparta when Atreus was sick he saw his daughter in Atreus
A character like Kratos main struggles are going to be internal in his own mind, not external. Strong men can be their own worst enemies and that is the point of Kratos and Atreus' relationship. Kratos has caused himself much pain and suffering but he has overcome all external threats. His biggest enemy is himself and the struggle to overcome his anger and teach his son to be better is the purpose of this story. Your last of us comparison is unwarranted.
Matthew Witherspoon couldn’t have said it better. Reading all this comments doesn’t even make me wanna watch the vid anymore.
You can't compare a mortal in Joel to a god in Kratos....making Kratos vulnerable because he doesn't have atreus is ridiculous. This is still the same guy that slaughtered the gods of Olympus. He's not gonna be vulnerable the same as a human. Gow did it as well as could be expected while keeping the character of Kratos still true to what we know of him.
jrvbamafan1 but when atreus got ill it really just showed that he isn't needed, pretty much just making him somebody that's just there to be there.
Jordan Jones Atreus has an action mapped to the physical control scheme of the game, when he doesn't listen or isn't there you actually lose a part of that control. Harder difficulties really make you feel how essential he was controlling the combat flow.
You could say that Ellie in The Last of Us was "just there to be there" because Joel would still be as much of a machine without her (proven in the last section of that game) - I just wholly disagree with this point in general.
RPS i played on hard (challenge me ) it had no effect on me except i took a tiny bit longer to kill enemies.
well said
Indeed. It's the totall opposite. Kratos becomes vulnerable because of Atreus, without him he's a monster once again.
I think the purpose of the scene getting the Blades of Chaos was understated and then overlooked by many. I don't think it represents Kratos's vulnerability, but his inability to escape his past. This got overlooked because what was supposed to be a somber and terrifying scene for Kratos was exciting and badass for us.
I think they needed to lean into the message their more. The conversation with Athena was perfect, but if they want to portray to us he no longer wants to be a monster, they needed to introduce it as a real temptation.
I did feel like I understood that messaging despite wishing they emphasized it more. That's why the most powerful scene for me was when Kratos tells Atreus about killing his father, accepting his mistaken past as reality.
I think the temptation was the satisfaction and enjoyment the player got from killing all the enemies and innocent bystanders in the previous games.. It was wrong, but it felt so good to kill with them. He did admit to Athena that he's a monster, but on his own terms (For his son). Everyone loves the blades. It's super addictive to play with. And I'm sure Kratos loved them as well. Maybe still.
"but if they want to portray to us he no longer wants to be a monster, they needed to introduce it as a real temptation."
That is exactly what they don't wanted to portray. It is even spelled out in the dialogue between Kratos and Athena. He acknowledges that he will always be a monster, but for his own reasons now, and not for the purposes of others anymore. No King that tells a General where to march his army, no God that tells him to destroy the Hydra, no Athena who has her own designs for the time after the Olympians have been vanquished and destroyed by his revenge.
I don't think it was overlooked at all. It may have been overshadowed by "holy shit we're getting the blades" but I HIGHLY doubt nobody realized exactly how hard that was for him and the gravity of what getting them meant.
I feel like some of your points come from a place of having completely unrealistic expectations for the emotional manipulation needed to tell a great story. God of Wars emotional charm comes from its subtlety.
Very good point. One of the things I credit God of War's storytelling most for is how it's able to communicate a lot with a little. Kratos is clearly very introspective in this game and it shows if you're paying attention. Not only does it feel honest in the way it portrays him but it's also a brave move from Cory and the Santa Monica Team. They knew that some deeper parts of the narrative might go over the player's head but they did it anyway. This type of restraint in storytelling is uncommon in most films, let alone games so again, Kudos to the team for that.
ichi1011 well said my man..well said.
YES. Subtlety of the story is one of the things I loved about this GOW
It's like the little real moments of father and son that touched me and I could relate to, you just totally didn't see. The part where Kratos says let me mourn in my own way, how he reprimands him when he gets angry, the fact that Kratos is trying to teach his son to not be like him knowing that it's going to be in his nature which is forcing Kratos to learn how to be different to lead by example, you completely missed all of it. For some reason you are working hard to compare this relationship between a bad ass and his son to a regular guy and a young girl and I have no idea why they should be examined in the same light.
Matthew Witherspoon To say the two relationships shouldn’t be compared is just a lazy excuse not to think. Just because he didn’t agree with your view, it shouldn’t mean you have to try and denounce him.
thats what the comment section is for buddy you can compare bot relationships but if you dont accept that they are both diferent you wont get the full experience because you re expecting the last of us
rui figueiredo Accepting they’re both different is, by its very nature, the concept of comparison.
My Enemy's Enemy I mean, you can compare any two similar things, but comparing them isn't going to draw out the meaning in either of the stories. The father son relationships of a man who is a competent powerful assertive introverted man who isn't used to showing vulnerability especially not to other males has no choice but to do so because the other male he is showing the vulnerability too is his own son, and he doesn't want his son to make the same mistakes as he has so he has to figure out how best to change himself so he can show his son the best way to be himself as a man, and the story of survival and dependency of the last of us is not a fair comparison.
The other story is in no way made better or worse by comparing it to this dynamic, and vice versa. How does comparing them help you to understand either story better?
My Enemy's Enemy and I didn't denounce anyone, I'm saying that maybe his perspective is limited and he missed the significant moments in the story because it is difficult for him to personally relate. But for some of us, this is how we are and how our relationships with our fathers is more like. When he brings in the comparison with the girl and her guardian it skews the overall point of this story.
I disagree with the fact that Atruis is a weaker character than Ellie for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that he is an active element of gameplay as well as story, Ellie on the other hand was practically invisible when gameplay starts only being important in story bits. And the sequence after his illness highlights the despairation of Kratos; his wife's death, the gods hunting him, the difficult journey, non of that made him dig up his past, what did it was his refusal to let his son go, and again both gameplay and narrative feed into each other almost flawlessly, we didn't get a new powerful weapon because we killed a god, we got a new weapon because Kratos needed something more, something that had the potential not only to kill gods but to destroy worlds, and only the thought of his son's death could make him carry them again.
Edit: the moment of his illness was supposed to convey the exact opposite of TLOU's moment, it wasn't supposed to convey weakness but instead extreme unstoppable power, it was supposed to convey the monster that Kratos can be, the monster he choses to be for his son and ONLY for him.
str8 facts
Well put!
I would say though, about the gameplay of last of us not being as deep as GOW4, is that TLOU was made over 5 years ago. So its tough to make the comparison between gameplay depth
Kagen Irwin it doesn't matter when the game was made what matters is which game was better, the original eleder scrolls was made decades before either of them and it had deeper gameplay than either, too bad the game failed in other respects, plus if they wanted to make TLOU deeper they could've but they didn't to strengthen their narrative, a move I respect but nonetheless makes it a weaker game compared to GOW, in my opinion.
Yousef Walid you make a good point there, and while I obviously prefer TLOU, I think we all can agree that GoW4 was a masterful game
When atreus gets sick that wasnt meant to be a moment where kratos realized how much he cared about him. That's completely obvious at that point when he is in a genuine panic when he goes to Freya and literally BEGS her for her help. Kratos has never done that before. Then right afterwards kratos tells atreus about everything. Again that's a pivotal moment of character development since he's never acted that way before. Before kratos basically told atreus to shut it whenever he asked literally anything of kratos. He even goes from calling him BOY to using his name the rest of the game. In comparing it to the last of us you completely missed the moments that are there instead of focusing on what supposedly wasnt
I find it funny the people who are like, “Kratos has depth now!” He always had depth. I guess people just don’t pay attention. He has one of the most interesting stories in the original games, and yes, it was rage and death filled, but there were many moments of reflection and tragedy that lead to a deeper character for young Kratos.
To be fair, I have not played the first games, but have watched countless gameplay walkthroughs and lore breakdowns for the timeline. The narrative difference between God of War 2018 and the original God of War games, is that Kratos is now older and wiser.
Kratos always had depth. Learn the backstory, learn the lore, find out what he went through. An amazing character and story that deserves to be reverenced as such.
I also feel as though you miss the point of the blades of chaos segment. It is Kratos making peace with his past so that he could save his son. He was underpowered and unable to do what was necessary to save Atreus without being at peace with himself.
Why do we always have to compare TLOU to GOW? Sure there are some similar story beats but for the most part both games are so different in terms of the narrative.
Sure, they both involve two people who are emotionally distant at first then later develop a bond as the journey progresses but it's just so weird to compare a game set in a modern day, post apocalyptic world starring actual mortal humans, versus a game set in a mythological Norse world starring gods.
I really don't get it. All this does is instigate hate among fans of the respective games.
I’m sorry, but I thought a lot of the things you said about the story of god of war were very wrong, especially the part when you said the part when Atreus falls ill and you have to for to Helhiem wasn’t impactful. Kratos says in Alfiem that he chooses to mourn in different ways because he has to stay focused (obviously because of his past) and I think that’s really an important thing to remember at that specific moment of a story. It’s hard to explain how I feel over typing, but I do have to say that the stuff you said about that specific moment in the story was wrong and I can’t help but feel that you didn’t understand the story as much as others did.. I’m sorry that you were expecting something different
Agreed completely, Luke here seemed to have wanted a re-tread of the Ellie parts in TLOU while ignoring the fact that the moment in GoW that he critiques is going for something completely else. There is a reason Athena is in it. There is a reason that you get the blades, and that Zeus appears in the end. It shows how far Kratos has gone, how he battles his nature every day, and without Atreus, he would surely fall prey to the demons that haunt him. Comparing the two moments is frankly unjustified as they are trying to say two completely different things
I agree. I usually agree with most of what Luke has to say..but here..he seemed lost in the idea of what the God of War in his head looks like verses the one we got...He talked at length about Post Modernism..but he seemed very stuck in the past to me..talking at length about how he wished there were bigger fights and more battles in this game..like the past games and when it came to TLOU, he got so stuck on wishing that GOW has played the exact same emotional beat that he entirely missed the point of what the message was trying to convey. The scene when he gets his blades is so powerful because..in the past games, Kratos used them for selfish reasons..to get what he wants..here it's selfless..he has to face who he is so that his son can live and that entire part from when Atreus falls ill..to him getting the blades, is one of the best moments in the game for me. Personally I feel RobinGaming understood the game way better than Luke..his video essay "GOW: A Masterclass in storytelling" is a great watch.
Yeah I totally agree, it wouldn't have made any sense if Kratos turned into a rabid animal in the absence of Atreus since he was teaching the boy about humanity and morality just moments before and after. Since this game is removed from the OG trilogy by a good number of years, if Kratos would've voluntarily forgotten all that he had learned since it would make this whole emotional journey shtick rather nonsensical - he's a sage now, he shouldn't need a child to remind him of how he's supposed to behave (especially if he keeps telling his son to 'calm himself'). If it wasn't for the fact that the fire from the blades made short work of everything in Hel I would've really struggled without Atreus' light bows for his stun ability but I still thought about him quite a bit, personally.
EDIT: Also when he brushes all of the antagonists, including Baldur, as not a threat I kind of rolled my eyes wondering if he knew that if it wasn't for Sindri's conveniently placed arrow, Baldur had a good chance of killing both Kratos and Atreus along with Freya for good measure. How the hel do you write that down and decide to keep it in the final video you know?
Well said. The pervasive emotion I had while playing this part was: "wow the stakes are really high for Kratos to go back to his past, a past that he has buried for a VERY long time, a past he tried to hide away from his son, a past that he must now face again in order to save the life of his child"
If that doesn't make for an emotional impact, I don't know what will
also one thing about make we see in Atreus POV is that it would break one shot camera cut that the dev was going for.
20:53
Kratos just isn’t that way. Kratos has seen considerably more shit than Joel, he’s even less open to mushy stuff. Especially since Atreus is a guy, Spartans treated males like machines since birth.
While Atreus is murdering elves all by himself while Kratos trips out in the light of Alfheim, he isn't running scared and urgently, he was fighting and then pulled Kratos out. The whole point of the story is to show that Kratos is trying to learn self control so he can teach his son to be better. Not to mention that if he wants his son not to grow up to hate and end up murdering Kratos one day, then he needs to teach him to NOT be like Kratos. I'd be interested to know what kind of relationship you have with your own father.
Matthew Witherspoon
Not trying to learn self control as he already had done that to a large degree. He is trying to maintain self control to teach his son so that he doesn't make the same or similar mistakes he made.
Yeah, i have to agree on everyone in the comments to disagree on what you thought about atreus’ illness. We werent supposed to feel weak, we were supposed to feel urgency. Kratos was about to lose atreus and the only way to save him was to accept and dig up his past.
“I know. But i am your monster no longer.”
One of the most powerful scene, not just in gaming but in entertainment media history. I get chills everytime.
The relationship between sons and father's isn't like the relationship between father and daughter. A father doesn't rely on his children. I needed more of a connection to the little bastard and him getting sick because of Kratos made me care about him more. Atreus is a little badass himself so it wouldn't make sense for him to be so scared and urgent. When he realizes he's a god, you see how arrogant and disrespectful he becomes, that's more what a boy would do. As a little boy, he is not as vulnerable as as a little girl might be, if something happens to Kratos, as when he is in the light of Alfheim and in the vision and Atreus has to defend them from the elves, it shows he is very much capable of not being completely dependent on his father for protection. I disagree with you about how much the game stays with you too. I think you have a different perspective due to life experiences. A lot of father son relationships resemble the relationships displayed in the game. The way Freya treats her son Baldur and how he treated her was compelling and realistic. I think your life experiences may be limiting your ability to relate to the events.
Well that's an intelectual roast
He dedicated over 2hrs for last of of us and 5 hours on last of us 2. You should watch Joseph Anderson’s 3 hr god of War review. Luke is an amazing reviewer but he fucked up on this game. Coming from someone who isnt close to their dad
One thing I'm surprised you didn't talk about was the soundtrack: in my opinion it's one of the best video game soundtracks of the decade.
Have u listened the soundtrack of old god of war games?
@@harshajain2776 they both have amazing soundtracks
Atreus being sick cannot be compared to elly losing Joel. Kratos was keeping his past away from not only his son but himself because he was scared of becoming who he was. The section where Kratos is alone isn't about being vulnerable, but instead overcoming his vulnerability with his past and himself so he can do whatever is necessary for his son.
As for the trees.
Faye marked the ones she wanted him to cut down herself, I imagine since it was her axe she either prepared the trees with it, or at least chose trees that were damaged anyway.
From how she raised Atreus she seemed to have a strong connection with the forest.
You really missed the mark on this one Luke.
I love The Last of Us. I think it's one of the defining pieces of art in the entire gaming medium, but you cannot analyse God of War through a Last of Us lens. And that's fundamentally what you're doing here. You're not just comparing and contrasting the two, you are actively subjecting the story of God of War through the rules and the beats and the ambitions of the Last of Us. That's a mistake.
I hope you take some time to think about it.
You're really missing the point heavily here, especially when you compare Elly's quest for medicine to Kratos' quest to find a cure in Helheim. Kratos' picking up the blades of chaos was him taking personal ownership of the monster he once was, and using that past as emotional fuel to drive himself forward. It was literally his love for his son that allowed him to take something dark and ugly inside of him and use it to do what needed to be done. This is why he said to Athena "I am your monster no longer." which is him saying, "You don't own me, I own me, and I will do what I must to save my son, and fuck what you or anyone else thinks of that mission." Kratos as a character is a very determined individual, that's who he is, that's how he has always been, and furthermore he is a man of militaristic discipline and it feeds into how he handles situations. It doesn't matter that Kratos retained his powers, it doesn't matter that his health bar didn't deplete or that his rage-bar didn't deplete, because POWER isn't the point, emotion is the point, and that is where Kratos struggles: controlling his RAGE, controlling his rage in the face of his enemies, controlling it in general around Atreus, and not letting his distrust of the gods get the better of him in the face of Freya who was legitimately there to help and aid him throughout most of the game.
TLOU was about Joel learning to reconnect with somebody and replace something he lost, and that was true for Elly as well, meaning they both had the same exact motivations. Kratos didn't want his son to make the same mistakes he did, whereas Atreus wanted his father's love and to be trusted by him, that's two different character motivations right there, which is more than Joel and Elly's put together. I mean, it's like Endless Jess said, Kratos is an interesting character in this God of War BECAUSE of who he used to be in the old God of War games, and that he already had depth to begin with if you actually take the time to look back on what set off his rage. Kratos isn't killing people he doesn't like in old GoW games, he's killing people who have severely fucked him in ways unimaginable: he was manipulated into killing his own wife and daughter, he was forced into killing his mother due to a curse placed on her that made her turn into a mindless monster, he had to reject being reunited with his own daughter, because if he didn't THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD END, which also shows he can make the right decision if placed in the right situation.
Your whole video was a pretty lazy misinterpretation of not only WHO Kratos is as a character: a man who has been put through hell and back and just wants to make sure his son doesn't become as twisted as he was by trying to protect him from the beings who made him into the monster he was, and what Kratos IS: a god (not a human, a man, don't get it twisted) trying to teach his son what it means to be a god and the responsibility that being one carries. In more ways than one Atreus shows that he is capable of being a good god. He is sympathetic towards others, wants to help whoever he can whenever he can, and there is a point in which Kratos even tells him that he speaks wisely, though I can't remember which point exactly, but this also lends creed to the notion that Kratos is able to recognize wisdom when it is present.
I played this game with my 10 year old son by my side. Before we started I gave him the major story points of the original trilogy. We would do the game maybe an hour at a time or more. Then talk about it after each play section. Sometimes it was silly talk and other times it was in depth. My son surprises me on how he catches on to "deep" points I loved it. When Kratos goes back for the blades I thought the moment was awesome since i played the original trilogy. My son couldn't appreciate that part but he surprised me when he said "that is sad, he has tried to leave his past behind and now he can't run away anymore"... this might sound dumb but I looked at my son and thought of how proud I am of this little guy!!! Any fathers out thier if u have a son and he is mature enough for such a story as God of War ( obviously varies from kid to kid) I encourage you to play it with him there. Talk about the story and cherish these cool father and son moments together.
Sounds like a smart kid
I’m glad that Cory Barlog turned Kratos into an actual character
I'm no fan of God of War's story, but this argument is flawed and relies on the assumption that both of these games were trying to achieve the same effect with these two similar but flipped scenarios. The entire sequence could have been handled better once you got to The Land of the Dead, for example I really dont think we needed to fight Palette Swap Troll for the 4th time; and maybe there could have been some other gimmick that would have made you miss Atreus' valuable help...
Edit: ... Mass Effect Andromeda? Really? That was good?
Around 30:25 you mentioned that they seemed to set up fighting Thor and Odin, but then didn’t give you anything at the end to move that forward.
There was a scene after you return to your home, where Kratos and Atreus open the door during a storm and see Mjolnir in the hands of a man, thus literally setting up an impending battle between Kratos and Thor.
I don’t think they wanted to do what The Last of Us did. I think they wanted to show us that Kratos needs Atreus mentally, not physically. It was him coming to terms with his past and opening up to Atreus. Kratos doesn’t physically need Atreus like Ellie needs Joel
TLOU doesn’t need to consistently be compared to this game, sure it’s your favorite game. But this is its own game. It’s own story. Not every story is told the same way. Yes GOW is inspired by TLOU but this game is subtle and not big and loud like TLOU. It’s about paying attention, and letting the moments last.
100% disagree with the section in the middle where you talk about when they separate. This whole video you are running on the premise that The Last of US and God of War should be compared, you explain your reason, but I disagree. The similarities between the two are surface level. This assumption though, has led you to think that the sequence where they separate was trying to do the same thing as in The Last of Us and failed to, but it wasn't remotely. That sequence was about Kratos's identity, he reopens his past and comes to terms with that fact that the past has caught up with him, it's his past that makes Atreus sick, and we know that as the player. I am shocked that you can say that he returns to Atreus and nothing happens, in the very next scene Kratos tells Atreus the truth and it's bloody beautiful. Their relationship changes dramatically because of that.
Ultimately you're too hung up on the superficial similarities God of War has to The Last of Us, it has very different themes and tone. Personally I found the narrative in God of War more satisfying; it's about fatherhood and what a father passes on to his son. Ironically since the main narrative is about them going to scatter ashes, God of War is not about grief, but The Last of Us is. It's about Joel's grief for his daughter, moving on and connecting with another human again; therefore that separation scene needed to emphasise their connection. God of War was going for something totally different.
After killing Baldur, if to go home and sleep, Kratos wakes up some years latter with Thor standing in front of the house door. That was pretty cool
In my opinion and experience, this is the closest thing to a perfect game that I've ever played
Ever heard of witcher 3?
@@Randomguy-wd9jz Yeah, why?
@@GodWarsX have u played it?
@@Randomguy-wd9jz Yeah, why?
@@GodWarsX just saying its better than gow
I think GoW is better because of the world, the characters (I like Atreus more than Ellie, he was more useful both gameplay-wise and story-wise although the germaphobe dwarf was cringe), the scale, and simply the gameplay. It’s more fun than TLoU because it balances big, action set-pieces where you’re riding a dragon’s tongue to the other side of the map, with moments like having a drink with your kid for the first time.
She marked the trees that were already dead. So they don't have the to part anymore. She don't wanna even to kill a tree for her funeral
I haven't finished watching this yet but i know the answer to the tree question. It bothered me as well but then i noticed that the tree falls on top a rock and the rest of the tree lays behind said rock.
I couldn't disagree more about not missing and feeling helpless in helheim without atreus
""a postmodern reimagining of a classic, the last of us" funniest thing ive heard all year, youre a funny guy.
awesome.. i was waiting for this video
The entire moment of having to go to Hel to save Atreus is a microcosm of the game’s pivotal arc: the more you run from your past, the more harm you do. Kratos ran from his past (literally, actually) and hiding it is what made Atreus so sick in the first place. Only when Kratos confronted his past (Athena, her dissolution, and the Blades) did he acquire the resolve to tell Atreus about being a god. Kratos, out of necessity, found utility in his past (the Blades) and from then on was able to view his past life with greater clarity than ever before. The Blades became reformed because they ended up serving a greater purpose and that would’ve never happened had Kratos left them at home.
I don't fully agree with you on the atreus sickness plot. I don't think it would have served the purpose of the story very well. i do 100 percent agree with you about how the game sets expectations. Part of the disappointment on your end over that part of the game may have even been disappointment over not meeting your expectations of similarities between the two games
They were also separated when Kratos went into the Bi-frost and Atreus had to pull him out. (Possibly my favourite moment in the game when you look around and see how Atreus is not as helpless as previously thought)
Like a lot of people have already mentioned, the idea that Kratos was not already a deep character and that the moment Atreus becomes ill was not impactful is absolutely incorrect. Kratos was a tortured anti-hero with clear motivations and the cycle of revenge and how it brings no peace. The moment prior to Freya opening the door to a sick Atreus in Kratos’s arms shows Kratos pacing all over, clearly anxious and scared for his son. He was so scared that he went to Freya despite the fact that she is a god. It’s pretty deep
awesome points. i have never thought about these topics before. simply mind-blowing.
I noticed something probably not many people did, i noticed Freya's fingers were normal from the begining towards the middle of the game, but during the 3rd fight with Baldur, all her !10fingers were tattooed with lines connecting to her wrist tattoos. Could it be her tattoos are somewhat related to her powers?
The stranger is the big, bombastic, typical god of war style opening boss, the game just takes a sec to get to it.
Freya was cursed or someone (Odin) casted a spell to keep her from interfering or fighting in others affairs, which is why you will fight her after her her is broken (or whatever you wanna call it). It was part of her no leaving Midgard and no freedom thing Odin did to her.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that the ending fight was very anticlimactic. It feels like I’m in the end of the second act and then the game is over. Just felt rushed.
this video does not provide an objective take - this is all just your opinion, and its still rife with errors and mistakes.
In comparing the relationship between Joel/Ellie, Kratos/Atréus, I would argue that the relationship between father/son and father/daughter are very different. At least in my experience. There is an emotional bond between daddy/daughter, while there is a building love/respect/brotherhood between father/son. You teach your daughter how a man should treat her, you teach your son how to survive in the world. Its been this way for millenia.
The MOST memorable moment of God of War, was the moment where Kratos explained, “....on the day you were born, I crafted two knives made of steel from my home and this land.....”
I believe we are made to feel that Kratos avoided his son because he didn’t want him to be anything like him, but failed to realize that Atreus would have as much impact on changing him, as he would ever have on influencing Atreus. This is a common folly of all new parents, I believe.
I think you’re overanalyzing the similarities here. They are both 3rd person action-adventure games that have a near pubescent child along for the ride, but thats really all that is similar.
I enjoyed when I got to play as Ellie. I didn’t want to go back to Joel. However, God of War is a MUCH harder game....while I thought I could skip using Atreus for the most part, especially about a third of the way through, you realize how helpful, even integral, he is when battling large groups of enemies simultaneously.
Upon viewing the ending of God of War, it is clear that Atreus will be a MAJOR part of the game going forward, when you hear his name is also “Loki”.
Having played both games in the past three months, both for the first time ever.....I agree that the emotional impact of the Last of Us is stronger. However, as a story, with incredible possibilities going forward, and having far superior gameplay, combat, and puzzles, I am far more excited for the next God of War, than I am for TLOU2. I NEVER would have thought that possible after finishing TLOU. I think I played Assassin’s Creed 2 in between. God of War just blew me away. I finished the game and I must have 20 more hours of stuff to do and explore. Unfortunately, I need to get on RDR2 for now. I will come back to God of War for sure though, and likely even play NG+.
I LOVED that Odin and Thor were talked about a lot.....but we never see them. I LOVED that we are kept in anticipation for YEARS waiting to finally confront them. I LOVED that Athena and Zeus came back to fuck with Kratos. I got chills when Athena was sitting on the boat with Kratos.
My criticisms? Kratos can take dozens of hits from bosses and keep going, but a level 7 Dragur can one hit kill him. WTF? Also, the menu systems, the goal and maps system are really complicated.
Mate you just wrote the Bible
What really got me was at the end when he kills Baldur. I had a hard time figuring out if he did the right thing or not. But I felt that was intentional
Played it on a Ps5 your last words This is a masterpiece I could not agree more i had the same feeling as you this game made me realize why I love gaming last time I had this type of feeling was Witcher 3 back in 2017 when i managed to play it hope Ragnarök will deliver at least the same quality then I am a happy man.
I came here to hear how good god of war is but instead I got an English degree exam on Macbeth
I don't understand the connection to postmodernism. What I got from your video is that you say GoW tells a story with themes and topics and characters that were used before. If that is truly what you meant to say I would challenge this view. None of that is unique to or indicative of a postmodern piece of art.
As an Irish gal I never expected to hear Marina Carr referenced in a GOW video, she's much beloved here. Even studied her in college - highly recommend By the Bog of Cats, ostensibly her best work.
I think the tree what whole, but when it fell the top just went away lol it bothered me a bit too but I forgot what it ASAP lol
Surprise surprise but i think you're wrong about how the split up in this game "didn't work" the point wasn't to make you feel vulnerable like it did in the last of us, it was for kratos' story arc. It was meant for kratos to embrace his shame in order to save his sons life. If they dropped kratos off and made you play as atreus it would've made the player feel vulnerable, sure, but vulnerability isn't a part of this story. Kratos doesn't roam anywhere with a fear of death like joel or ellie do in the last of us. This story is much more about kratos being true to himself for the sake of his son. This arc culminates at this tipping point that you feel "doesn't work" and i think it's because after atreus wakes up he kind of just jumps to "we're gpds we can do what we want" which corey has admitted was a jump that happened due to cutting part of the game and losing time to spread that out a bit. Great review otherwise, i just don't agree that the separation doesn't work, i think it works best for the story being told. Just because its not as impactful for you individually as the last of us' seperated section doesn't mean it didnt have an impact for us parents out there screaming at kratos to move his ass and get that boy to freya..
I disagree with the part about saving Boy, they couldn't reduce Kratos's capabilities without hurting the character, I agree that the game failed to give the moment a certain vibe BUT you also have to consider that these challenges are not a big deal for Kratos anymore, he was just in a hurry, he wasn't in danger or anything, and they also tried to make it so you miss Boy with the parts that you can only reach using his bow shit, it's really debatable wether or not they could make that part better but I certainly wouldn't say it's worse than the TLOU because the pacing is way easier to make it work, also, they didn't kill the "powerful" character in GoW but they did in TLOU (by powerful character I mean the guy that fights and gives an image of strength)
also GoW 2 isn't right after GoW 1, it's years later
Had to click as soon as I saw the notification
It's a shame that you've missed the entire point of the narrative of this game.
i think i know how to explain the Nine Realms in a way that makes sense for this universe: they are all sections of the Norse lands of Scandanivia- Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and later Iceland- separated by ancient magic that even Frost Giants and the Aesir can't break, magic that requires the Bifrost and Yggdrasil the World Tree to connect.
a good way of making Atreus' absence feel more impactful would be to make Kratos fight a revenant without him
Great job on this one Luke. I would also recommend Mack’s review from Worthabuy for a fair and honest review
This is a really interesting video. But I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of the scene when Atreus falls sick and might die. I don’t think these two story beats are analogous because they aren’t trying to achieve the same thing as you describe in the video.
I was right there with Kratos worrying about Atreus as he was pacing back and forth. Putting the burden of his past aside to help his son who he has been mostly emotionally distant from this whole time to save his life. I found this moment powerful and the under-stated nature of these scenes made them feel more visceral to me.
There was a sense of triumph when he got the blades. But for me it wasn’t “oh cool a new weapon” it was “fuck yes now let’s go save Atreus” the gameplay and narrative worked in harmony to achieve this amazing moment. Something the last of us didn’t do.
I believe that the sickness part was not too similar to the joel being sick part because well, kratos doesnt need atreus to complete the journey or to go to helheim. I believe the point of that part was to show how much kratos cared for atreus that he was inclined to dig up his past just to save him. You can see him pacing in the elevator with atreus's body and breathing haphazardly. Also the final conversation showed that kratos respected his BOY cuz he said that he would not complete the journey without him
My biggest problem from the video isn't even something that you personally said, but instead even entertaining the notions presented by the Irish playwright you mentioned. Originality is what storytelling and our conceptions as a people thrives on, and recycling old ideas and ideals as a main source instead of originality is how creativity dies. Sure, the concepts that will go into a story have often been present or explored in something else. This however does not mean that the writer/teller of a story can't craft a unique narrative. Not every mythology has to be Greek/Roman/Nordic, not every mystical artifact has to be the one ring, etc. The best stories of any medium may have similarities to other properties from the most surface of levels, but delving into them at all will reveal winding stories of immense depth and originality. From series of games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Witcher, or Yakuza, to books like Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, The Expanse, or the Witcher, to movies like The Godfather, Interstellar, Inception, or The Matrix. All of these are wholly original, and are seen as some of the best stories you can ever find. Saying otherwise is both a joke and an insult to the stories and the talented people who wrote them.
Honestly, if she really was criticized for lack of originality I wouldn't be surprised if even she hardly believed the ridiculous notions she's toting at first. Seems like a particularly easy excuse to write in the easiest way by stealing whatever you can find from somebody else's work.
The difference in The Last of Us , where Elie was left alone in order to realise the importance of Joe as a father figure, and God of War is that Kratos goes in a journey of self-discovery and acceptence with what he is , in order to tell his son the truth of his nature and save his life. This is way I think the comparation between those scenes is unwaranted, because the 2 games aim for a different end goal.
PS:forgive my pure english
Good video, but you clearly have more knowledge of TLOU then the entire God of War storyline. This game is not replocating the story between joel and ellie. Kratos is not conflicting with emotions that atreus is bringing back to him like joel is with ellie. Kratos already loves atreus and is afraid his son will become like him. The whole scene of him coming back to his home is the most pivotal moment of the game. It brings you back to his past and the man he wanted to hide. This story is about Kratos it always has, atreus is the thing keeping kratos from returning to who he was. Very different from TLOU
Man do i love this game. My love for Norse mythology aside, it was such an amazing story with so much heart and emotion. Currently replaying it in anticipation for ragnarok
I know I'm late but i just found about your channel today and i'm watching a lot of videos of yours and they are great,
by the way.... i think that the tree head was already chopped because faye (his wife ) marked this tree as well as every stone that you could climb in the game, maybe you won't see that coz it's an old video but i hope this helps.
I just looked at your vid on god of war one of my favorite games and i agreed especially on the seperation part i kinda thought about it and got the idea that kratos didnt use his weapons and that the player was constantly full rage bar and that tells the player that all his humanity and holding back his god powers were laid in atreus just wanted to comment on that even tho the vid is 2yrs old
the problem is kratos uses the blades of chaos the same blades which he killed his other family the pain of kratos he needs to use them again he hates the blades hence the scars of the chains are behind the bandeges kratos has on his arm i dont see whats wrong
You have to look at them differently. Two of them are humans and two of them are gods, also the land they’re in is vastly different with different circumstances. Those two things alone overrule almost any comparison of the two games and how they did at telling their story
I'm going to disagree on the Sickness sequence. For me, it was a matter of Kratos accepting the monster inside, not about vulnerability. It was the turning point where Kratos finally begins to prioritize Atreus over his desire to put the past behind him. That means returning to the gruesome violence of old (you can't tell me that tearing out the heart wasn't messed up), accepting the Blades he despised, and finally coming clean (sort of) to Atreus. The comparison to the Last of Us doesn't work in this instance because it's trying something completely different.
Looking at GoW's development also gives some perspective as to why they didn't make him the playable character in that sequence. Atreus was one of the hardest gameplay elements to develop, to the point where Barlog had to set his foot down on including him in the game. The Blades of Chaos almost weren't included. I certainly felt Atreus's absence.
They could have had kratos gone on a rampage because of magic and Atreus was the only person to save him by finding some weapon and stabbing him, but to do that he must fight his father, he’ll be losing the fight just when he is going to die he saves kratos from the magic, and kratos is sad and perplexed that he could kill his own son. Atreus is scared of him and kratos is even more scared of himself.
1. Kratos does change after saving his son. He reveals the truth to him. 2. This is Kratos, the man that makes The Governator look like a little girl. An emotional "share and cry" would have ruined the game. 3. If you didn't think Kratos felt desperate to save his son then you didn't understand what it took for him to chain himself to those blades. You commited the taboo of all RPG's. You were you when you should have been Kratos. Maybe the lesser genres like FPS and Fighters are for you.
Perhaps in the next god of war kratos might embrace his godhood more maturely (and mabye even giant kratos again)
Did you not like Hellblade? Hinted at it a few times. Can't find a video on it though!
Kratos had to become what he hates (his former self) in order to save what he loves (Atreus). I think you missed the entire point of that moment in God of war. Think about it if your child or someone dear to you received a disease and the only way to save them was to do what you do best (in kratos’s case it’s killing things) wouldn’t you do it? This is meant to be a power trip because you have the means to use your power for good. In the last of us by the way I didn’t “miss” playing Joel. In fact that entire scenario was meant to show players just how capable Ellie is on her own. After all she does survive against David and the town and in fact even kills David! Joel had to stop her from killing! Both narratives are great and I would argue that returning to God of war as a franchise gave me more chills and emotional reactions than Last of us did. Personal opinion obviously.
About those trees lacking the top part...We do have som bad ass squirrels here in Scandinavia...
Kratos and Atreus are actual Father and Son.
However, Joel and Ellie are not Father and Daughter.
This is fundamental in both stories, the Blades section was there to show Kratos's deep care for his son, he was willing to get those wretched Blades back and overcome his past to save his future(Atreus).
The Blades signifcance is amplified in Ragnarok(Surtr) in that they helped Kratos majorly twice now, despite him trying to get red of them constantly (pre GOW2018).
The comparison is fair to an extent, but just because the main characters were seperated in both games doesn't mean that they were meant to be the same narratively, look at Ragnarok for example.
GOW 2018 is the single greatest gaming experience I've ever had.
Of course it has some shortcomings, but narratively speaking, I believe that they absolutely nailed it.
Lost me right at the start with "Kratos was never a character you truly cared about"
Not true at all. He has a lot of emotional moments in the old games. Nothing compared to GoW4, but still.
Fuckin good video though. Really well written. Thanks so much
Nice video man keep it up☺️.
Well especially for the sickness of Atreus and Joel being shot comparison I think it is safe to say that the difference in those events actually because of the main character of the game. Last of Us was basically about both of the characters in its core but in the end when you control Ellie the game shows that the main character, the hero of the story is actually Ellie. However in God of War this is not the case. Especially for players who played the previous games Kratos is the main character and changing it the main character of the story in one game would be wrong. So when Atreus was sick the story of the Mae had its top moment with all those Athena and Blades of Chaos moments. It was simply to show us that it's not Kratos being weak physically but rather psychologically since the blades and Athena affect him deeply reminding him of his past the very thing he tries to forget in a way.
So basically we have to consider the fact that God of War is basically an older franchise so we cannot think of this as a standalone. When we think about it we have to consider the previous games as well.
Granted that Kratos said that it's your story to Atreus at the end of the game but in my opinion that was just the intro for us to the character. The next games may have more focus on him but in the end this is a game where the focus in more on Kratos rather than Atreus even just a little.
Ya this game was a blast. Wish I could
Go back and play for the first time again.
Did you go back to the cabin after you beat the game?
This is what I've been looking forward to. Thanks for making this video!
I love how you talked about Post-Modernism over one of the bloodiest fights in the game. Great video but it's kinda funny how you talk so deeply about the game while Kratos tries to bash a guy's skull in
playing without stuns and summons on give me god of war is hell so I disagree with the "you don't need atreaus" part but the rest I pretty much agree with
also the part where you get the blades of chaos gave me chills from the boat ride to the draugurs outside the house and made me feel something i never felt playing the last of us... narratively I prefer the last of us although it was spoilt a bit with sequel i still manage to appreciate it and try to act like the sequel was an alternate universe.
Came her for God of War. Got an art lesson instead
the only problem i had with this game is that it doesn't let you set a custom waypoint on the map
I think you make some interesting points, but I also disagree with a lot of your points about it's inferiority to LAST OF US. This game is a slow burn, much slower and simpler than the story of LAST OF US, it isn't trying to tell the entire saga of this father and son in one game. It's very much paced like LOTR FELLOWSHIP. You get to learn about the world, the players involved and you have a simple story that is told exceptionally well. But one difference between the two is that in this game they're taking one of the most over the top franchises and turned it into something far more subtle and beautiful. It's a coming of age tale for it's characters, a road trip story, and its a game that takes a previously 2 dimensional character and creates a flawed hero who learns to be human and let someone else into his heart, and be a father. I can't wait for the sequel for this game, and I'd say that this story affected me more than The LAST OF US did, and that's saying something given how much I LOVE that game.
I really hope in the new GOW we get to see Freyr 😌
Your analysis is so Byzantine and uncommitted between a "comparison/contrast" and a "expository" structure that I just started hearing "blah-blah-blah" around 7 minutes in.
Im sorry but if you are stuck on the idea that Kratos "needed" Atreus for combat, I think you missed an opportunity to understand that Kratos didn't "need" him just because he physically couldn't survive without him.
He was saving his son's life.
Why does that HAVE to be about combat mechanics in order to have a deep meaning?
Sorry. Just totally disagree on that aspect.
Anyone who knows the story of Kratos knows he has survived far worse than any physical beat down he could take.
I thought the ending Boulder fight was pretty epic, the ending at Jalt...Jolten...Giant World, was frustrating. However, this game was great and I'm stoked for part 2. I wish they'd put out a teaser DLC for some additional content in Lava Land and Smog City.