Another strong interview! I’m slowly starting to understand the fundamental differences between Bitcoin and alt coins, including ETH. Really important to know what you’re throwing your money at!
Blockchain is trustless because of Decentralization. If a Blockchain isn't decentralized than what is it? It might as well be a computer server with apps, not DAPPs. Vitalik and Fabian Vogelsteller do still hold decentralization as paramount in their goals unlike almost every other chain. They may not be as decentralized or pure as BTC but they have great value as technology for running DAPPs and for the future of identify and NFTs that will be concert tix, contracts, or a service of dog walking or child care, food delivery, or ride share that needs no middleman. The other dPOS chains are speculative bubbles and imo have no intrinsic value because they are not decentralization at all. History shows that those in power collude and even if they don't and there are trillions of dollars of value on a chain than the validators will be targets.
Absolutely EXCELLENT video!!!! Truly the best from this channel, What Bitcoin Did, that I have ever seen! I just want to say, THANK YOU for this video. Lane addresses so many questions I had wondered about the nuts & bolts of the Bitcoin network, the issues and concerns, and the structure of the Ethereum network and how it works. Advantages/Disadvantages. Provoked much thought here and I made some other analytical points in other comments. Just, great work, this interview. Best on TH-cam! Thanks!
This was excellent and begs the question of transparency and having open dialogues for pro and cons to something. This applies to the covid situation which we all know is about a single narrative. So as the case with crypto
Proof of stake is fine, for everything else besides Bitcoin. Building such a huge foundational monetary system on a global scale with countries using it as their reserves etc on proof of stake would be a disaster.
@@YamadaDesigns tbh I don't really think there are. Its just feels like a figure of speech lol. I don't care either way if these alts hold up in the long term, I just use them as a means to make a quick buck to accumulate more BTC here and there. The crazy thing is I think if all these alts stopped worrying about coming off as climate change activists to save face in the moment everyone being on PoW in the short term would exponentially increase the rate of climate friendly and renewable energy sources to mine out of necessity while providing all of the security benefits it's designed to ensure in the first place? 🤷🏾
Proof of stake is centralized. If you're trying to achieve true decentralization then proof of work will keep the system honest. With PoS coins you're at the mercy of the stakeholders, whereas PoW coins you're dictated by full nodes. Why is full bitcoin nodes better? Because it's cheap to setup. Anyone on earth can setup a full node with a Raspberry Pi and 1Tb memory card. Full nodes allow you to record entire blockchain transaction history, validate transactions, and enforce the rules of the network. Basically it makes sure nobody on the network is cheating. Bitcoin literally has the perfect system of checks and balances.
Excellent discussion. I’m glad I can say it confirms what I already knew about Bitcoin and that’s why I hold Bitcoin. And also why I never liked Etherium. I think people have not realized the risk potential still out there for Etherium. But I’d like to hear Lane’s opinion on Cardano which based on my research has managed to solve the trilema between Centralization, Scalability and Security that most other crypto projects have so far failed to solve. If I’m missing something, I’d like Lane to point it out please. Thanks for inviting Lane.
No cryptocurrency has or ever will solve the trilemma between centralization, scalability, and security. Anyone that says they have are being dishonest.
You cannot solve a trilemma, but can make the best of it ~ Which is why I suggest looking into HBAR, which has done a superior job in making the best attempt at dealing with the trilemma (in my opinion of course...NFA and DYOR, but at the very least least DYOR!)
Cardano doesn't even have functional smart contracts. Infinitely more centralized than Ethereum. Slower than Ethereum. No outlook for scalability. There's arguments to be made for essentially every top notch Ethereum competitor EXCEPT for Cardano lol. Nothing runs on Cardano and nothing will run on Cardano. Wherever you're getting your information is a bad source.
At 22:15, he says "Imagine I had a small farm, enough that I mine a block a day." That is not a small farm. At all. To mine a block per day at current hash rate payout, you would need approximately 2,000 Antminer S19s. At a cost of about $10k each (which is on the low side), that would run $20 million. Nope, that's not exactly a "small farm".
If a version of bitcoin existed that was the same consensus mechanism but used less energy everyone would be on board with it... Yeah maybe, but it would make mining more profitable (lower electricity bill), incentivising more mining / miners that take advantage of efficient mining algorithm and exploit this by using more energy. Before you know it you've just got Bitcoin as it is now, more mining rigs or bigger mining rigs etc until the point is reached where the price to mine a Bitcoin is close to the price of a Bitcoin. Proof of work is proof of work. Bitcoin doesn't need to use less energy and if it changes to a system where same hash power can be achieved using less energy, net energy would end up being the same. Has power would increase but that wouldn't matter as the cost of hash power has decreased so overall security stays exactly the same.
IOW just price energy accurately and Bitcoin will adjust as needed. It uses what it uses today because that is the current equilibrium point. In general energy FUDers wouldn't be satisfied with any nonzero energy usage. They can never tell me what an acceptable limit to put on other people's energy use would be.
Lane has got a lot of info in his head, a lot that he wants to share, and a lot of enthusiasm. Which is pretty darn relatable for me! It's always good to take a long look at these kinds of mechanisms and say "what's the long term outlook of this? what are the implications? what are the most likely outcomes?" If you look at it honestly and earnestly and issues are present, they'll appear pretty obviously. From there it's not so much about bending the analysis to match your viewpoint, but more about shaping your viewpoint based on what you see in your analysis. Which... understandably usually comes back to "bitcoin"!
There is Bitcoin. Then there is everything else. Everything else is not Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the base money layer protocol. No other protocol can displace this.
I think so too. I wouldn't be surprised that Peter has 'cancelled' any mention of the word Cardano from his conversations, and instructs his guests to go along with this directive too lol.
Yeah, it baffles me too. It’s like they’re not allowed to mention the C word! I know Peter is not a fan and has said so to me in the past, but I’m pretty sure he hasn’t dived into it much to understand it. On the other hand, his shows are often sponsored by Gemini and I know they have some beef against Cardano to the point where ADA isn’t even listed on their Exchange.
@@patrickgeyer9239 Yes they apply but they have been mostly solved with the remaining problems to be solved later next year. Ouroboros (the consensus algorithm of Cardano is a fundamentally protocol than Casper (Ethereum). 1 the validators have a combination of stake that is delegated by users and pledge which is stake that is put up by the pool operator. This effectively structures the protocol more like PoW with mining pools. 2 There is no slashing in Cardano because the protocol automatically takes away rewards from bad actors causing them to lose out on rewards. Genesis which is the next step for Ouroboros (the current one is Praos) will solve the bootstrapping from genesis issue that PoS suffers from at the moment. Also in PoS distribution of the coins spreads out over time and Cardano has already proven this since the Shelly launch which was last year.
41:59 many good points here so far, but why is Monero never discussed in these conversations? It is trying to achieve the same things as Bitcoin, and arguably does a better job at achieving them.
@@putyograsseson As far as I am aware, Monero has stronger security guarantees and faster transaction and settlement times than Bitcoin. So unless you have some evidence to back up these claims, then this is just misinformation.
Deprecate is generally used in coding for code that is phasing out as "deprecated", which is probably why he said that as a software dev. I think that's pretty funny... Depreciate is the word he was looking for
23:00 The only thing you can consistently do upon gaining 51% control is try to double-spend (i.e., revert your transaction history). 27:00 In case of a region being disconnected from the main network, a double spend is possible from within the region disconnected. 1:40 The Quantum Threat; thought I think it's less of a threat and more of a blessing if it ever happens. Imagine what one might be able to do once Quantum Computers become a thing... Subscribed to you; our thinking matches 100%. I wish I'd discovered this channel earlier...
This interview just made me 🙃🙃🙃, I am new at this channel. I didn't knew that there are so many trade offs(making bitcoin better in someway) made by other crypto. I just thought that bitcoin had value not because it is better but because it had more number of users.
Most of Bitcoin community is also "number go up" come on now lol. I don't love Eth though but smart contracts allow for a lot of decentralized projects like Audius or play to earn gaming. Utility for both BTC and smart contract platforms.
You must’ve missed the part of the interview where just owning enough rigs and hash power doesn’t mean you can alter the base layer protocol without a fight from the full nodes. Read block size wars. Decentralization comes from full nodes and not miners.
Ergo is pow but has more speed (not as much as proof of stake) and so still maintains security. It's potentially more decentralized-asic resistant-and that allows smaller players to mine.
Best video I ever seen regarding BTC and crypto!!! Very informative, easy to understand thank you!! :) ps. Maybe invite Lane again you two got chemistry.
1:37:00 In proof of stake, a plutocracy will not form as long as participation in the network is voluntary. This is because if the whales ever choose to do something that the other constituents don't agree with, the other constituents will leave the network, and the whales will be left holding the bag at significant diminished value. Those with the largest stake are therefore financially incentivized to act on behalf of all constituents, and will suffer great loss if they don't. If participation in the network is compulsory, it's a different story.
If this network becomes the dominating network, your project won't have a choice, and there goes your "voluntary". Right back to where we started. Money wins and we all lose, again.
If all the Ethereum full-archival nodes disappeared, then wouldn't we be able to reconstruct them just by using the full nodes? (because the full nodes can reconstruct any past transaction but it would just take them a while, right?)
1:25:00 There are solutions to the long range attack and weak subjectivity in PoS systems. Read about Ouroboros Genesis, for example. There are chains that already implement this solution. I think it's important to point this out. Just because this is a problem with Eth 2 consensus does not mean that it applies to all PoS systems.
Great interview! Still learning some new stuff. I have a hypothetical question: What would be the result of a miner paying himself a smaller coinbase reward for mining a block? Would it decrease the 21 million Bitcoin that ever come into existence?
I believe it would, which would be similar to lost coins effectively taking away from the supply. Block rewards are based on which block number they are part of, being cut in half every 210,000 blocks (about four years if each block is 10 minutes). If I mined two blocks in a row and took 50% of the reward in the first block, the network would agree that block is valid, but the next block would still be subject to the same rule of what it's reward can be--I can't increase it just because the previous one was smaller. There might be some semantics on how much is created in the end, but you can still confidently say "there will never be _more_ than 21 million"!
no, the reward would continue to half based on the number of mined blocks and the maximum reward would stay at 21m it would just take longer to mine that 21m
@@Paquette118 No, this is wrong. There is a predefined block that mining rewards will end, it does not depend on how many there are total. If all coinbase transactions are the maximum they can be then the number is almost 21 million, but if not, then it will be less.
Interestingly, Bitcoin could theoretically benefit the current Cantillionaire class if they have the sense to use their freshly printed money to buy bitcoin or Bitcoin mining equipment. It would still substantially benefit those who did so before the Cantillionaires got involved.
Yes and no. I think there’s a careful choreographing going on to actually slowly increase the price because too much money migrating into Bitcoin so soon could implode the system the Cantillionaires already had constructed by draining value out of other markets, and that’s also not what they want. They want a controlled adoption rate, and the mechanics of how they’re achieving this has to be better understood.
Half hour in.....it's as clear as mud so far!!!! No disrespect, but man is there no one else who could explain this in a simpler way? Saylor seems to make more sense to me, and believe me that's saying something!! I'll keep listening. Just my opinion guys. Thanks
If you have nothing. Trade shitcoins. If your already rich...... listen to Michael saylor on investing. He says it. Unfortunately maxis often don't explain this to people like myself with nothing.
Great content. Can you get someone on to discuss the future of Layer 3 p2p dApps running on lightning and how that will compete with clunky smart contract networks
So I follow everything about the Fuji validators being offline for 1 hour and then the basically pick up the longest block and start over. Simple! What about the users in Fuji that were also involved in the lack of access to the global network connection. They would have been spending BTC during this time, sending transactions to the mem pool, and the Fuji validators would have made blocks(if off the global network long enough to be adjusted for difficulty). What happens to those transactions?
Decentralisation is perhaps a spectrum but decentralisation is just a means to an end - Is it decentralised enough to be censorship resistant? That is more of a binary.
58:35 he says PoS has been a part of the ethereum road map since the beginning, and then clarifies by saying since 2015. Which wasn't the beginning. It was a while ago, but not the beginning.
Man, not enough details are presented to keep this honest. First glitch in this conversation around 21:00 to 22:00. They fail to mention that the price of the asset is directly tied to the chain’s security and it just unravelled slowly after that. Conversation topic just jumps around, but never crosses into how an issue discussed is solved better in pos systems. Eh, opportunity wasted.
26:00 In that example what if a global issue(world war, Cyber Polygon type event) occurred that had regions flip their internet kill switches(Russia has one, the US has probably has one, ect) and this splits the world into large chunks.
Another strong interview! I’m slowly starting to understand the fundamental differences between Bitcoin and alt coins, including ETH. Really important to know what you’re throwing your money at!
BTC is a stored value.
ETH etc are speculative investments, venture capitalism.
Well said. The complexity of these projects never fails to blow me away
Blockchain is trustless because of Decentralization.
If a Blockchain isn't decentralized than what is it? It might as well be a computer server with apps, not DAPPs.
Vitalik and Fabian Vogelsteller do still hold decentralization as paramount in their goals unlike almost every other chain.
They may not be as decentralized or pure as BTC but they have great value as technology for running DAPPs and for the future of identify and NFTs that will be concert tix, contracts, or a service of dog walking or child care, food delivery, or ride share that needs no middleman.
The other dPOS chains are speculative bubbles and imo have no intrinsic value because they are not decentralization at all.
History shows that those in power collude and even if they don't and there are trillions of dollars of value on a chain than the validators will be targets.
Also the risk that coming, with the upgrades
I feel like most people understand nothing of the technicalities of blockchains.
About 25% of the way through. Definitely one of the more illuminating videos to date. Thanks, Gents.
Lane is awesome, super knowledgable and intelligent, very good at breaking down complex concepts that 'average' ppl can understand. Thanks !!
Love the episodes where you talk bitcoin and crypto. 🔥
Best channels are the ones that educate and talk about the crypto space not click bait headlines with outrageous fiat price pumps.
crypto is just a bunch of financial illiterates and/or scammers.
Absolutely EXCELLENT video!!!! Truly the best from this channel, What Bitcoin Did, that I have ever seen! I just want to say, THANK YOU for this video. Lane addresses so many questions I had wondered about the nuts & bolts of the Bitcoin network, the issues and concerns, and the structure of the Ethereum network and how it works. Advantages/Disadvantages. Provoked much thought here and I made some other analytical points in other comments.
Just, great work, this interview. Best on TH-cam! Thanks!
This was excellent and begs the question of transparency and having open dialogues for pro and cons to something. This applies to the covid situation which we all know is about a single narrative. So as the case with crypto
Better than "there's no incentive to mine an invalid block", there's a strong financial disincentive.
nice strawman fallacy
Not so much, if a country subsidises it's electricity to 0. Governments could attempt an attack for a non financial reason - in a hypothetical world.
Proof of stake is fine, for everything else besides Bitcoin. Building such a huge foundational monetary system on a global scale with countries using it as their reserves etc on proof of stake would be a disaster.
What are good use cases of PoS?
^ This. I invest in alts, but the end goal is to move profits to bitcoin.
You guys never heard of Kadena then. The only scalable PoW blockchain out there
@@YamadaDesigns tbh I don't really think there are. Its just feels like a figure of speech lol. I don't care either way if these alts hold up in the long term, I just use them as a means to make a quick buck to accumulate more BTC here and there.
The crazy thing is I think if all these alts stopped worrying about coming off as climate change activists to save face in the moment everyone being on PoW in the short term would exponentially increase the rate of climate friendly and renewable energy sources to mine out of necessity while providing all of the security benefits it's designed to ensure in the first place? 🤷🏾
Proof of stake is centralized. If you're trying to achieve true decentralization then proof of work will keep the system honest. With PoS coins you're at the mercy of the stakeholders, whereas PoW coins you're dictated by full nodes. Why is full bitcoin nodes better? Because it's cheap to setup. Anyone on earth can setup a full node with a Raspberry Pi and 1Tb memory card. Full nodes allow you to record entire blockchain transaction history, validate transactions, and enforce the rules of the network. Basically it makes sure nobody on the network is cheating. Bitcoin literally has the perfect system of checks and balances.
Generally don’t like long format, but honestly could have gone another hour. Very informative. Thanks
Agreed
Another hour of BS artistry...
Excellent discussion. I’m glad I can say it confirms what I already knew about Bitcoin and that’s why I hold Bitcoin. And also why I never liked Etherium. I think people have not realized the risk potential still out there for Etherium. But I’d like to hear Lane’s opinion on Cardano which based on my research has managed to solve the trilema between Centralization, Scalability and Security that most other crypto projects have so far failed to solve. If I’m missing something, I’d like Lane to point it out please. Thanks for inviting Lane.
Don't hold your breath. We will be ignored until we flip Ethereum.
No cryptocurrency has or ever will solve the trilemma between centralization, scalability, and security. Anyone that says they have are being dishonest.
You cannot solve a trilemma, but can make the best of it ~ Which is why I suggest looking into HBAR, which has done a superior job in making the best attempt at dealing with the trilemma (in my opinion of course...NFA and DYOR, but at the very least least DYOR!)
Cardano doesn't even have functional smart contracts. Infinitely more centralized than Ethereum. Slower than Ethereum. No outlook for scalability. There's arguments to be made for essentially every top notch Ethereum competitor EXCEPT for Cardano lol. Nothing runs on Cardano and nothing will run on Cardano. Wherever you're getting your information is a bad source.
@@ReTr093 Cardano had functional smart contracts for a while even when you wrote that reply.
At 22:15, he says "Imagine I had a small farm, enough that I mine a block a day."
That is not a small farm. At all. To mine a block per day at current hash rate payout, you would need approximately 2,000 Antminer S19s. At a cost of about $10k each (which is on the low side), that would run $20 million. Nope, that's not exactly a "small farm".
He was just using that as a toy example. He acknowledges it immediately after Lane points it out to him
One of the most informative videos I’ve seen. Loved the topics.
How come I didn't know about this channel? Love it! What a great interview. It'll take me some time to chew through the other interviews...
These guys both talk so fast. I had to double check to make sure I didn't have 1.25x playback speed by accident. Great stuff!
One of the best overviews of PoW vs PoS that I’ve ever heard
Great talk! We know we don't like PoS, but it's nice to have an honest chat about it and learn things we didn't know before.
I agree, the more I learn about the rest of the shitcoin ecosystem the stronger my resolve for Bitcoin becomes.
Hands down one of the best, instructive, clear interviews of the cryptospace. Keep up the good work!
If a version of bitcoin existed that was the same consensus mechanism but used less energy everyone would be on board with it... Yeah maybe, but it would make mining more profitable (lower electricity bill), incentivising more mining / miners that take advantage of efficient mining algorithm and exploit this by using more energy. Before you know it you've just got Bitcoin as it is now, more mining rigs or bigger mining rigs etc until the point is reached where the price to mine a Bitcoin is close to the price of a Bitcoin. Proof of work is proof of work. Bitcoin doesn't need to use less energy and if it changes to a system where same hash power can be achieved using less energy, net energy would end up being the same. Has power would increase but that wouldn't matter as the cost of hash power has decreased so overall security stays exactly the same.
It is competive by design. It will use however much energy it wants. Deal with it, get over it, etc.
ergo
IOW just price energy accurately and Bitcoin will adjust as needed. It uses what it uses today because that is the current equilibrium point.
In general energy FUDers wouldn't be satisfied with any nonzero energy usage. They can never tell me what an acceptable limit to put on other people's energy use would be.
20 mins in and this convo is already great. Thanks pete!!
Lane has got a lot of info in his head, a lot that he wants to share, and a lot of enthusiasm. Which is pretty darn relatable for me! It's always good to take a long look at these kinds of mechanisms and say "what's the long term outlook of this? what are the implications? what are the most likely outcomes?" If you look at it honestly and earnestly and issues are present, they'll appear pretty obviously. From there it's not so much about bending the analysis to match your viewpoint, but more about shaping your viewpoint based on what you see in your analysis. Which... understandably usually comes back to "bitcoin"!
Economic capture in ETH is not a vulnerable.
It's a feature.
Great interview, guys! Love this and thank you!
There is Bitcoin. Then there is everything else. Everything else is not Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the base money layer protocol. No other protocol can displace this.
Very nicely explained. So much stuff packed in this video.
I think that any conversation about proof of stake without mentioning Cardano is incomplete at best.
Don't the same arguments apply?
I think so too.
I wouldn't be surprised that Peter has 'cancelled' any mention of the word Cardano from his conversations, and instructs his guests to go along with this directive too lol.
Yeah, it baffles me too. It’s like they’re not allowed to mention the C word! I know Peter is not a fan and has said so to me in the past, but I’m pretty sure he hasn’t dived into it much to understand it. On the other hand, his shows are often sponsored by Gemini and I know they have some beef against Cardano to the point where ADA isn’t even listed on their Exchange.
@@patrickgeyer9239 Yes they apply but they have been mostly solved with the remaining problems to be solved later next year. Ouroboros (the consensus algorithm of Cardano is a fundamentally protocol than Casper (Ethereum). 1 the validators have a combination of stake that is delegated by users and pledge which is stake that is put up by the pool operator. This effectively structures the protocol more like PoW with mining pools. 2 There is no slashing in Cardano because the protocol automatically takes away rewards from bad actors causing them to lose out on rewards. Genesis which is the next step for Ouroboros (the current one is Praos) will solve the bootstrapping from genesis issue that PoS suffers from at the moment. Also in PoS distribution of the coins spreads out over time and Cardano has already proven this since the Shelly launch which was last year.
41:59 many good points here so far, but why is Monero never discussed in these conversations? It is trying to achieve the same things as Bitcoin, and arguably does a better job at achieving them.
because monero got it wrong with hard privacy instead of opt in, as a result the network will never scale as much or be as secure as bitcoin
@@putyograsseson As far as I am aware, Monero has stronger security guarantees and faster transaction and settlement times than Bitcoin. So unless you have some evidence to back up these claims, then this is just misinformation.
Anyone know where I can find this Allan Farrington paper he keeps mentioning?
Great conversation! One correction - A wasting value of a physical asset is called Depreciation and not Deprecation, just a detail.
I believe they said deprecate. which is just another word for depreciate
Deprecate is generally used in coding for code that is phasing out as "deprecated", which is probably why he said that as a software dev. I think that's pretty funny... Depreciate is the word he was looking for
23:00 The only thing you can consistently do upon gaining 51% control is try to double-spend (i.e., revert your transaction history).
27:00 In case of a region being disconnected from the main network, a double spend is possible from within the region disconnected.
1:40 The Quantum Threat; thought I think it's less of a threat and more of a blessing if it ever happens. Imagine what one might be able to do once Quantum Computers become a thing...
Subscribed to you; our thinking matches 100%. I wish I'd discovered this channel earlier...
Very insightful talk. Cheers guys.
I learnt alot from this interview, so so much, repeating the whole interview again.
What a great interview! Congrats to both!
One of the best episodes in the space ever, Lane is brilliant
This interview just made me 🙃🙃🙃, I am new at this channel. I didn't knew that there are so many trade offs(making bitcoin better in someway) made by other crypto. I just thought that bitcoin had value not because it is better but because it had more number of users.
Fantastic interview Peter, your style is right on, sort of reminds me of the late grate Tim Russert
A good level headed discussion - do the work before you just hit the buy button
Most of Bitcoin community is also "number go up" come on now lol. I don't love Eth though but smart contracts allow for a lot of decentralized projects like Audius or play to earn gaming. Utility for both BTC and smart contract platforms.
One of the best interviews yet - reinforces my decision to be a BTC maxi
So what happens to Btc when a better coin comes out? Faster, cheaper, more secure, more decentralized, smaller supply, smart contracts, gaming etc
Bitcoin is maximally decentralized... there are only two companies that can build these asics. Good one :D
And they are both Chinese
My thoughts too. this needs to be explored more imo
You must’ve missed the part of the interview where just owning enough rigs and hash power doesn’t mean you can alter the base layer protocol without a fight from the full nodes. Read block size wars. Decentralization comes from full nodes and not miners.
How many GPU makers are there? 3?
Ergo is pow but has more speed (not as much as proof of stake) and so still maintains security. It's potentially more decentralized-asic resistant-and that allows smaller players to mine.
What's Peter Schiff's picture doing by the window (again)?
Love this episode 👍
Is that a picture of Peter Schiff i see in the window?
Link for the Lyn Alden article?
This is a tremendously informative vid. Very simple explanation on the benefits and sense behind proof of work
Amazing interview! Thanks
In my opinion, proof of stake is very much like the current fiat system in that 'he who has the most, makes the rules'.
Best video I ever seen regarding BTC and crypto!!! Very informative, easy to understand thank you!! :)
ps. Maybe invite Lane again you two got chemistry.
1:37:00 In proof of stake, a plutocracy will not form as long as participation in the network is voluntary. This is because if the whales ever choose to do something that the other constituents don't agree with, the other constituents will leave the network, and the whales will be left holding the bag at significant diminished value. Those with the largest stake are therefore financially incentivized to act on behalf of all constituents, and will suffer great loss if they don't. If participation in the network is compulsory, it's a different story.
Good counterpoint
If this network becomes the dominating network, your project won't have a choice, and there goes your "voluntary". Right back to where we started. Money wins and we all lose, again.
I dont trust proof of stake, I only trust proof of work
Excellent. 👍
If all the Ethereum full-archival nodes disappeared, then wouldn't we be able to reconstruct them just by using the full nodes? (because the full nodes can reconstruct any past transaction but it would just take them a while, right?)
Really great interview
Is the Lyn Alden article referred to, "Bitcoin’s Energy Usage Isn’t a Problem. Here’s Why"?
Lane is going loopdy loop when discussing the ASIC issue. 46:10 ASIC resistance is so important against centralization.
Really informative talk. Thanks
Super interesting. Thanks guys.
There are frequent references to an article by Lyn Alden. Can anyone tell me exactly which article it is and where I can find it?
1:25:00 There are solutions to the long range attack and weak subjectivity in PoS systems. Read about Ouroboros Genesis, for example. There are chains that already implement this solution. I think it's important to point this out. Just because this is a problem with Eth 2 consensus does not mean that it applies to all PoS systems.
@@carloandreaguilar5916 har har har
Would be interesting to not only hear Bitcoin Maxis. Invite Charles Hoskinson and talk with him about proof of stake.
great episode!
I would love to hear this dudes thoughts on chia!
So proof of stake is crap. I kind of knew that already but great interview.
Hahahaha Peter Schiff on the window like a fly.
Great interview! Still learning some new stuff.
I have a hypothetical question: What would be the result of a miner paying himself a smaller coinbase reward for mining a block?
Would it decrease the 21 million Bitcoin that ever come into existence?
I believe it would, which would be similar to lost coins effectively taking away from the supply. Block rewards are based on which block number they are part of, being cut in half every 210,000 blocks (about four years if each block is 10 minutes). If I mined two blocks in a row and took 50% of the reward in the first block, the network would agree that block is valid, but the next block would still be subject to the same rule of what it's reward can be--I can't increase it just because the previous one was smaller. There might be some semantics on how much is created in the end, but you can still confidently say "there will never be _more_ than 21 million"!
no, the reward would continue to half based on the number of mined blocks and the maximum reward would stay at 21m it would just take longer to mine that 21m
Yes it would and it already happened a while back!
@@Paquette118 No, this is wrong. There is a predefined block that mining rewards will end, it does not depend on how many there are total. If all coinbase transactions are the maximum they can be then the number is almost 21 million, but if not, then it will be less.
What would be the incentive to do that?
Interestingly, Bitcoin could theoretically benefit the current Cantillionaire class if they have the sense to use their freshly printed money to buy bitcoin or Bitcoin mining equipment. It would still substantially benefit those who did so before the Cantillionaires got involved.
Yes and no. I think there’s a careful choreographing going on to actually slowly increase the price because too much money migrating into Bitcoin so soon could implode the system the Cantillionaires already had constructed by draining value out of other markets, and that’s also not what they want. They want a controlled adoption rate, and the mechanics of how they’re achieving this has to be better understood.
Half hour in.....it's as clear as mud so far!!!! No disrespect, but man is there no one else who could explain this in a simpler way? Saylor seems to make more sense to me, and believe me that's saying something!! I'll keep listening. Just my opinion guys. Thanks
If you have nothing. Trade shitcoins. If your already rich...... listen to Michael saylor on investing. He says it. Unfortunately maxis often don't explain this to people like myself with nothing.
U guys skipped through hive and Steem issue. Anybody in favour of pos or dPOS need to study that episode. POS or dPOS can never produce sound money
Loved this Pete!
top tier interview
The accounting term is depreciate / depreciation. Not deprecate
appreciate this video.
50:49 3 Types of nodes on ETH. Full Node is fully decentralized.
1:13:07 Key point to POS vs POW
LMAO you carrying Peter Schiff picture around :D
Great content. Can you get someone on to discuss the future of Layer 3 p2p dApps running on lightning and how that will compete with clunky smart contract networks
I learned alot, thanks.
So I follow everything about the Fuji validators being offline for 1 hour and then the basically pick up the longest block and start over. Simple!
What about the users in Fuji that were also involved in the lack of access to the global network connection. They would have been spending BTC during this time, sending transactions to the mem pool, and the Fuji validators would have made blocks(if off the global network long enough to be adjusted for difficulty). What happens to those transactions?
Your bitcoin still exist on the longest block.
Yeah, let's ignore the pre-mine because that isn't the biggest scam that turned eth just into another fiat coin. Such BS.
Peter, perhaps look into interviewing some of the folks working on RGB (btc native smart contracts system)
Decentralisation is perhaps a spectrum but decentralisation is just a means to an end - Is it decentralised enough to be censorship resistant? That is more of a binary.
Peter, I would love to hear you and Matthew Kratter from trader university have a conversation.
58:35 he says PoS has been a part of the ethereum road map since the beginning, and then clarifies by saying since 2015. Which wasn't the beginning. It was a while ago, but not the beginning.
17:25 product placement?
Great talk 👍
Yeah and the fkn worst thing for altcoins is that bitcoin can do everything altcoins can do with layer 2, 3, 4 technology
If Dumb and Dumber was a podcast..........
“Institute of CyrptoAnarchy” LOVE IT!!!
Not sure if you know, the Institute of Cryptoanarchy is a hackerspace located in Prague. Recommend visiting!
Beyond brilliant! :D
The first half an hour is great for beginners. Bitcoin maxis have heard it a million times.
It's 2022 and people are still comparing BTC with ETH 🤦♂️
If you want to be money, decentralization is absolutely beyond top priority. Bitcoin is money. Alt coins are securities.
Man, not enough details are presented to keep this honest. First glitch in this conversation around 21:00 to 22:00. They fail to mention that the price of the asset is directly tied to the chain’s security and it just unravelled slowly after that.
Conversation topic just jumps around, but never crosses into how an issue discussed is solved better in pos systems.
Eh, opportunity wasted.
After watching the video I am even more convinced to buy BTC and ETH. They both have their places.
good show!
is bitcoin concentrated in to few hands?
Depends on your definition of "to [sic] few hands". Regardless we cannot know.
The more I learn the more I become a BTC maximalist.
This is the way.
26:00 In that example what if a global issue(world war, Cyber Polygon type event) occurred that had regions flip their internet kill switches(Russia has one, the US has probably has one, ect) and this splits the world into large chunks.
Centralization vs Decentralization= direct Power to the PEOPLE vs power to those who govern the people.