Proof of Stake (PoS) Versus Proof of Work (PoW) w/ Jason Lowery (BTC098)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2024
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Preston Pysh interviews MIT Graduate student Jason Lowery, who's a security researcher from the Department of Defense on Proof of Work and Proof of Stake protocols.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:41 - Why are property rights an important starting point for understanding the differences between Proof of Stake (PoS) and Proof of Work (PoW)
00:07:19 - What is Abstract Power versus Physical Power and why are they important for understanding Proof of Stake (PoS) vs. Proof of Work (PoW)
00:22:08 - Why do the rules around property rights keep breaking down throughout time
00:40:07 - Explain the importance of basic computer science and how computer programs work so we can understand the differences in Proof of Stake (PoS) and Proof of Work (PoW)
00:50:21 - A general introduction to Proof of Stake (PoS) vs. Proof of Work (PoW)
01:00:44 - Hal Finney and Adam Back's contributions to developing the first blockchain
01:19:09 - If you were going to exploit a PoS or PoW system how would that work
01:23:33 - Creative destruction and how it applies to protocols
01:33:56 - Jason's thoughts on Jamie Dimon liking everything but PoW
01:40:47 - Vitalik Buterin's comments on PoS not being tethered to physical reality
01:45:05 - How has the faculty at MIT responds to your research
02:03:19 - If you had a message to policy makers, what would it be
🖊️ Access the transcript and learn more about the guest here: www.theinvestorspodcast.com/b...
📖 BOOKS MENTIONED:
- The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers by Paul Kennedy: amzn.to/3e9GyB1
- The Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph Tainter: amzn.to/3ruaBq3
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Not only are we lucky to have Jason, we need him.
And Preston 😎
Jason lowery is a modern day hero
We don't need him, or anyone. But I do appreciate his work.
need implies lack of decentrali2ation / single point of potential failure
I'm glad he's on OUR side.
This kind of stuff being free to watch on the internet is truly amazing.
My God...I thought I was Orange pilled before listening to this. That was absolutely incredible, relating POW to evolution and sapiens development. With this young man advising the upper echolons of Government and defense, I think the future of Bitcoin and POW could be absolutely mind blowing.
I know, right!? It's like re-orange pilling yourself.
He's not going to advise upper echelons of anything, unfortunately. The abstract power hierarchy is completely corrupted. Why would they allow a truth speaker such as Jason?
Jason’s ability to breakdown complex subjects keeps you engaged the entire time. Request for a quarterly Jason deep dive into various subject matters that match with the shows vision.
He's basically been doing that on Breedloves channel
Probably the best interview I've listened to in over 5 years.
Damn right
I almost never do this, but this is one of those rare times I'll have to listen again, back to back.
Absolutely stunning conversation.
Outstanding indeed. Just right on the money.
Magnificent. Thank you for doing this Jason and Preston!
EPIC! MUST WATCH!!! Thank you Preston and Jason!
Mind fully blown.
Without doubt the best articulation of the merits of PoW i have seen
Just when I thought I understood everything about Bitcoin.. this is amazing content.
Thank God for Jason Lowery! The depth of knowledge that flows from this young man’s mind is simply amazing!
In the past two years I've listened to hundreds and hundreds of podcasts about bitcoin. I have a list of 10 podcasts that I always send to people who want to learn about bitcoin and proof of work. This will now be the 11th. Great great podcasts. Mind blown
Can you list the Top10 please? Would be really interested to see it. Thanks
what are the other ten?
I’ve compiled a similar list and would love to see yours
I’ve listened to this 3 times over the last year and it gets better every time.
I keep coming back to this interview and it keeps blowing my mind 🤯
Great high level convo
Jason brings a truly unique perspective to help our understanding of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network is so much more valuable than just a monetary system.
2 of my favorite guys to listen to. Thanks Preston and Jason!!
Cutting edge thinking, absolutely grounded in reality and logic. Fantastic to listen to
Fantastic conversation. Thanks Preston and Jason!
lots of wow moments. Thank you guys.
Good shit Jason, best explanation on computer and software abstraction i have ever heard.
Need to watch this several times. Mind blowing.
Wow! This, indeed, is one of the best interviews I've watched! Saved for future re-watching. Thank you gents. Cheers!
Thank you, Jason. I have just begun my journey down the rabbit hole. Wow, this interview has opened my eyes.
WOW! This. Was. Genius. Mind blown, unbelievable interview! Going to watch this again, so many amazing points. Profound, well thought through, just awesome. Thank you for this work!
Jason is king
God King
Proof of work is the best 'spent' energy you could use.
PoS is just a fiat model, thats why the WEF is in love with ETH all of a sudden. Can be controlled by large stake.
Eth is crap.
@@robertrichards4930 That's why the community is slowly moving to Ethereum Classic
This is great. Listening to Jason makes me want to get some more hashpower
Thanks so much for this great conversation!!!
Always fascinating listening to Jason and Preston discuss PoW vs. PoS.
This is the Tip of the Spear of knowledge to be able to understand WHY Bitcoin POW is Superior to all other consensus mechanisms (POS.). I have goosebumps listening to this and can’t believe I get to participate and learn “real time” as the World’s powers structures are at war with each other (currency wars, God King’s, and Protocols.). All I can say is THANK YOU Jason & Preston!You both are improving the depth of my understanding and the quality of my life!🙏❤️
Mind blowing! Thank you!
This is a brilliant interview and inspires what I want to do professionally. Great work, thank you
Incredible conversation.
Masterpiece podcast to keep in the shelve with what is money show Saylor/Breedlove… 🙏🙏🙏thank you so much gentlemen’s !
Thank you gents!! Excellent stuff.
Amazing chat
Mind blown!🤯
Wow! Just wow!
Great. Good explanation of pow
Thanks for your effort guys, great video
Incredible - thank you, Jason!
Excellent discussion. Many thanks..
Thank u for providing this amazing interview!!!
Brilliant discussion, very philosophical and interesting comparisons
This is one of the most informative and useful discussions I have heard. Thank you to Jason and Preston for putting this out!
Need more of this
Power projection is fueled by the Power of knowledge 💪🏾🔥
The Keys to the Kingdom. Pow!
we need this guy talking with Michael Saylor on a podcast
Loved this you Blokes, well done!
Is Entropy the decentralization mechanism of energy?
Most interesting video I’ve ever seen on pow vs pos. Amazing!!
Jason is incredibly intelligent & knowledgeable. Great to see how interested he is in these subjects
Epic
Finally more Jason P Lowery content!
Mind opening. Thanks gents.
Preston is good cuz he listens.
thank you guys for the wonderful intellectual presentation and the clarity of your message. you and others are my god kings😁
the best podcast breakdown philosophic ideas
This was mind blowing. Excellent conversation.
As a former software engineer I was looking into Algorand's PPOS (Pure Proof of Stake) to see whether I am (as a Bitcoin user) really not missing something important... it seems the whole network actually relies on some 100 so called Relay Nodes, which need to be servers handling many connections, with public address AND publicly listed. So this again boils down to the problem of authority taking over the protocol.
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯The deeper I go, the more steadfast I get. Profound stuff, Preston.
My question is this…what happens when you time-lock bitcoin future price/value appreciation to be split by the “communicating parties” to a future date? Not for every transaction but I certainly the major ones (whatever “major” means to the consumer)…specifically rent/mortgages. It seems like this would turn bitcoin into a method that literally sucks the “value/money” right out of real estate??? Probably all major assets/commodities…companies that offer it will flourish and customers (of all markets) will begin to demand it? Or am I wrong?
Sweet. Confirmation is wonderful 👍
So good!!
Great stuff with Jason Lowery. Thanks Preston Pysh. We need to redefine the whole Bitcoin maxi narrative, because it's too easy to pick at. This is a PoS vs PoW issue, and how any property, no matter what it is, must be protected. Imagine if cryptographic algorithms in general could be challenged by PoS instead of PoW.
Thank you 🙏 This is just the information i was looking for 👍 Watching the Michael Saylor episode next.
Elite interview, Jason does a great job of explaining the basis of human society and how exponentially impactful bitcoin is and will be
The whole POW analogy to violence and physical power is great and makes complete sense. But we must ask ourselves, why did humanity begin to abstract power in different ways? For progress and scale. If POW is truly the unbreakable and one true system to rule all, then by the analogy we would still be living in a world of neanderthals who are essentially driven by physical power. The analogy is great because it's true, neanderthals could not scale into groups larger than 20, just like Bitcoin can't be the underlying framework for scalable, complex, systems. Homo sapiens arrived with the ability to make abstractions of power, which in history proved the long term winner - a natural evolution into a "POS" society. "Theres no limit to how many Watts someone can summon to defend POW". Watts cost money. Stake costs money. Through inference you can say: Theres no limit to how much stake can be summoned to defend POS. In fact, staking is far more streamlined than having to deploy physcal servers to mine, so defence can be summoned quicker in POS. As far as blockchain POW vs POS goes, we need both
I hope you have taken the time to read the thesis now that it's published
GOD DAMN
This is blowing my mind
Without a doubt this is the most impressive video about cyber currency and points brought up by Jason Lowery. After watching your video Preston I cannot say enough good things about it. The one profound statement that hit the hardest was what Jason said about letting Bankers be in charge of bitcoin. For God's sake they should not be in charge of protecting our Cyber Dome and only allow those people who can keep up with what Jason is trying to convey to America. Thanks again Preston for this was a very important video.
Oh, Jason! I far from understand all you say, but from day one when you transitioned from LinkedIn to Twitter, I have greatly appreciated your insights. CONGRATULATIONS on being invited to advise the WH Exec. Ofc. on strategic security benefits of Bitcoin. I have confidence you'll give it your best. EXCELLENT pod here with Preston! 🧡🧡
The domestication of men in America is intentional. J. Peterson speaks to this as well. Great insight Jason.
Humans self-domesticated over thousands of years.
How do we get Jason to speak to the US congress?
Should we start contacting senator Lummis?
what Preston says at 1:53:00 is profound
Jason the GOAT
fucking love this guy !
Did he write a book ?
Dude is so smart and a joy to listen to. Can’t believe this shit is free!!
OneLove…
wow..I want to send this out to everybody I know...but they just won't get it...I barely get it
01:23:34 Regarding Nations printing fiat to gain more stake. couldnt they print fiat to build more solar farms too and get more pow? thx
with this you just increase the demand for solar farms which increases the price. So at the end you have to buy solar farms for infinite price.
What do you think of a hybrid layer 1, primarily POW with stretch capabilities on POS? That should help address the blockchain tri-lemma
Wish this was in my curriculum growing up together with all the stories being told in religion class., like an interesting story nature class, but a simpler word for it, not using the word bitcoin.
Beauty
Lol all the people who shit on Jason on Twitter for being a spook or something are so dumb. Listen to what he says. What he’s saying is factual and provable. I don’t see any mental gymnastics going on here. It’s all based on first principles and historical references. Bravo!
If anything his thesis flies in the face of the high ranking members of our system who are corrupt and regularly choose to exploit and abuse their control authority over the money printer.
Fantastic! A lesson in Ontology!
Proof of Stake - a sign with a drawing of a guard dog. Proof of Work - a real snarling dog guarding your house. It's like saying the sign can do the same thing as the real dog.
The drawing of the dog is an abstraction from the real thing. The communication is meant to make you believe there is a real dog there. And it is using the fact of the real thing (guard dogs) already existing to deceive you.
Mind continuously expanded. Holy sh*t.
When I listen to Jason, Preston, Saylor, Saif, Breedlove… I realize my brain is a 4 cylinder rustbucket while these guys are rolling a v12 sedan! 🤯
Thanks, learned a loot
Time stamp for reference 1:24:36. Governments could also simple print fiat to purchase mining equipment to capture control of a proof of work system. Kinda easy actually. How is this any less cunerable than proof of stake? Actually with a organically grown proof of stake network, so much of the supply is out of circulation. This actually stands to function better than proof of work in your analogy if the impacts of money printing.
The point of bringing up this analogy is to highlight unbounded vs bounded systems.
In PoS, it would be indefinite for an entity to capture 60% of circulating supply as there is a cap on circulating coins.
While in PoW capturing 60% would cause honest miners to increase there hash rate as there is no cap on energy abundance.
@@TheIaTaI Thanks for the comment, but just not getting it. But back to the question, couldn't " a bad actor" print a bunch of fiat and purchase miners to steal a pow system? That is if they captured 51% of the hash power?
@@robleduc2410 In both PoW and PoS a "bad actor" can technically print money and attempt a chain attack - albeit at the expense of said money debasing (a heavily defended chain would require more printed money in order to have a successful attack, which would lead to more currency debasement).
As an analogy, imagine an attacker discovering two honeypot chains and both are in the best interest of the "bad actor" to attack:
One is heavily guarded by real world limitations (Power/Watts) and the other is guarded by an abstract version of power.
Regarding my previous comment. In case of an attack, it is in the best interest of honest actors to defend their chains.
PoW is defended by honest actors plugging in more miners to increase their % of hash rate (hash wars), there is no upper bound to how much energy can be plugged in.
In the case of PoS there is an upper bound, which is the total supply of coins that are circulating, once a bad actor acquires a majority stake, it is over
@@TheIaTaI That makes sense. So if the majority of coins in a POS chain are staked and supporting the networki a bad actor would not be able to achieve majoirity stake. Which chains with thousand of nodes and a large distribution is so important
@@TheIaTaI the state attacker could also just seize mining operations for free.
Yes, pow is a quasi unbounded resource, but also jot really. You need the energy and the hardware. So you might be able to regain power at some point, but it might be too late then.
Great!
Jason smart. Verrrrrry
hfs, well done
I just re-watched this vid and, oh boy, I've noticed so many new things I 'missed' the previous time. I will watch it again in a few months.
Everybody that thinks POS is the "right" way should follow Jason's work and really and truthfully apply their intellect to Jason's arguments. And if they're honest, they will convert to POW.
@ 1:35:50 -ish LOVE Jay's smile 😃!!
Still struggling to see the clarity in some of these arguments, some amount of watts go in to the stake system as well via conversion of economic activity into fiat into eth? Any super realistic computer game rendering demands a lot of physical power in the form of watts
A conversation at the highest level of human intelligence
Jason will become the Carl Sagan of cyberspace one day.
A podcast with Jason Lowery and Michael Sailor together would be amazing