The Immaculate Conception: Bitcoin vs Fiat Standard | Dr. Saifedean Ammous | EP 203
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- This episode was recorded on September 8th 2021.
Saifedean Ammous is an expert on Bitcoin with a PhD from Columbia University. He joins Dr. Peterson to discuss decentralization, different schools of economics, the Fiat vs. Bitcoin standards, and much more.
Dr. Ammous is the author of The Bitcoin Standard, widely considered the essential book on the economics of Bitcoin. He also hosts a podcast of the same name. His new book, The Fiat Standard, should be out in November.
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Find Saifedean here: / saifedean
Saifedean’s online learning platform: saifedean.com
(20% off by using the code “Peterson”)
The Bitcoin Standard: saifedean.com/thebitcoinstandard
The Fiat Standard: saifedean.com/thefiatstandard
_________
[00:00] Introduction
[02:34] What are hard monetary assets?
[06:13] The argument for bitcoin being the best hard money ever created
[09:11] "Bitcoin only has users... no admins. There is nobody with a master key" - Saifedean Ammous
[10:36] How the Bitcoin network functions using "consensus parameters"
[15:49] "The way that Bitcoin came about seems... virtually impossible to believe" - Jordan Peterson
[18:27] Other schools of economics (Austrian) vs. the most common today (Keynesian)
[20:46] "So the Austrian school of economics... tilts you more towards an appreciation of non-centrally controlled, distributed networks, and emphasis on the individual actor" - JP
[23:25] Paul Samuelson and communist economic expectations of centralized planning post-WW2
[25:27] Dr. Ammous' academic background
[27:14] Climate change. The push towards central planning, implying certain people or groups know the exact consequences and solutions to future economic developments
[29:41] "I've been struck by the problem of unintended consequences and the irreducible complexity of things. We can talk about the problem of climate change, but those words are incredibly deceiving" - JP
[34:16] Highlighting the crucial role of the entrepreneur in Austrian economics
[40:46] Saifedean reflects on the views held by the central bank, governments, and mainstream economists on money-as opposed to Bitcoin's structuring and the Austrian school of thought
[41:43] "From the Austrian perspective, money is a product of the market and not the invention of the state. The state's meddling in money... is irrational and cannot succeed for the same reasons central planning does not succeed" - SA
[45:50] Overview of Dr. Ammous' book The Fiat Standard
[54:40] Current inflation in Western democracies. The devastating effect of hyperinflation on the average person
[58:15] "Money is an incredible technology for lowering our time preference" - SA
[58:59] "The 20th century was a global trainwreck of watching the money preference rise. Generation after generation... witnessed their money devalue" - SA
[01:02:32] Why some efforts in energy production are misguided
[01:06:39] The Fiat Standard
[01:10:29] Why are we allowing people to mine bitcoin?
[01:12:46] The genius that went into the production of the Bitcoin code
[01:23:14] The crazy reality of decision-making at climate change panels
[01:26:36] Fiat-based currency jobs and the Zoom warriors disconnected from the physical world
[01:31:09] "A lot of the problems of the 20th century, in my opinion, have their roots in highly inflationary fiat currency" - SA
[01:31:18] Covering some of the common objections against Bitcoin
[01:39:45] "We are always going to find more reasons to print money" - SA
[01:41:43] Ammous’ online learning platform
[01:48:29] The growth of Saifedeen.com and the parameters attributed to its success
[01:50:05] The possibility of decentralizing societal accreditation
[01:50:21] "I've talked to seriously wise academics who know that there is almost zero financial knowledge in universities [today]... There is tremendous residual value, however, in the accreditation" - JP
[01:56:18] Wrapping up
#Crypto #FiatStandard #Bitcoin #JordanPeterson #Decentralization
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This was probably my most enjoyable discussion. Thank you so much for hosting me, Dr. Peterson!
Saifedean will go down in history for writing the most legendary book I have ever read! Thank you Dr Ammous for everything you do!
Great book I loved it! Shout out to crypto Jebb he recommended it on his show
Two legends together, amazing 💪🔥
Can't wait to finish listening.
Thank you for all you’ve done for the community sir. Concept of Low time preference has materially improved my life.
I’m 71 and I’ve never sat through two hours of anything so transfixed as I just did listening to this conversation! Thank you Dr. Peterson, thank you Dr. Ammous, the internet just lived up to it’s potential !
Now Sir, if I may add: respectfully submit to act on this new knowledge. A friend of mine is 70 and recently purchased his first little part of Bitcoin. My mom in her 80s also bought a fraction of a Bitcoin. Bitcoin is for all of us.
@@ThinkForYourself007 This is the sell signal I've been waiting for. I got in early 2018 and recently sold it all. Comments like yours make me feel like it was perfectly timed.
@@ieradossantos you got the price you deserved
@@ieradossantos - Nah, it won’t crash yet.
Not until the day after I buy some.
@@ieradossantos This comment in a year or two will not age well 😄
The most important thing that should be on everyone mind currently should be to invest in different sources of income that doesn't depend on the government. Especially with the current economic crisis around the word. This is still a good time to invest in various stocks, Gold, silver and digital currencies.
I have been investing in stocks for over 10 years now and I have made a lot of money. My portfolio has grown exponentially and I can't thank stocks & ROCHELLE DUNGCA-SCHREIBER enough for such an amazing way to make money!
Stocks are falling and bond yields are rising, but markets still don’t seem convinced the Federal Reserve will pursue plans to keep increasing interest rates until inflation is under control. I'm still at a crossroads deciding if to liquidate my $117k stocck portfolio, what’s the best way to take advantage of this bear market?
While there’s more pain to come, investors should look for stocks like Royal Philips NV and Alstom SA that have been beaten down enough that they’re a bargain or get a good portflio manager...
@Zahair O'Brian heard it's a good time to buy and basically I've just got cash sitting duck in the bank and I’d really love to put it to good use seeing how inflation is at an all time-high, who is this coach that guides you, mind I look them up
@Zahair O'Brian the crazy part is that advisors are probably outperforming the market and raising good returns. I will give this Patrice a look up, lucky i stumbled on this thread.
Have you ever wished that two people whom you greatly admire who are in different fields/realms find one another and have a conversation? Well, this just happened for me! Amazing!
Strange that the same people who control the progressive politicians the universities and CNN are the same people who promote Bitcoin, Climate Change and Covid .
Can you elaborate on that?
Yes!
Both titans in the field of "eating as much steak as humanly possible."
I agree, and this first happened to me when I saw Paul Saladino, MD, a carnivore diet expert, interview Saifedean Ammous a few months back.
Amazing how Peterson rephrases things and they become clearer than the original statements.
I am surprised by his ability to grasp new concepts! congrats
Yes because Peterson is smart and the guy who has the PhD seems lists and flip flops between ideas. So Peterson has to bring him on the track.
He's just fucking brilliant, love JP so much
Yah, it’s very enlightening and entertaining too
there are a lot of connections waiting to fall into place...
A lot of the questions he's asking are things he already knows and he's just asking / answering for the audiences benefit..
*INVESTING IN CRYPTO NOW IS VERY COOL EXPECIALLY WITH THE CURRENT RISE IN THE MARKET,*
You're right ma,
That is why I had to start forex trading
2months ago and now am making benefits from it,
Thanks for introducing me to Sam Justin.
O' Yes I'm a living testimony of Sam Justin
Mr Sam Justin has changed my financial
status for the best,
Building wealth involves developing good habits like regularly putting money away in intervals for solid investments. Financial management is a crucial topic that most tend to shy away from, and ends up haunting them in the near future… I pray that anyone who is reading this will be successful in his or her life!!!
I’m celebrating a $30k stock portfolio today. I started this journey with 6k. I have invested on time and also with the right terms now I have time for my family and the life ahead of me
Wow, really. I was able to make my $25k on investment
@@clydeorlan2615I’m looking for something I can venture into on a short term basis, I have $15k sitting in my savings
Assets that can make you rich
*FX
*Btcoin
*Stocks
*Gold
*Real estate
You’re right but a lot of people remain poor due to ignorance
This is one of the most important conversations today... and thank God prof. Peterson is taking it seriously.
Watching Dr. Peterson process difficult concepts in real-time, while simultaneously making logical leaps forward to future implications, is impressive to say the least. What a brilliant mind.
A sharp mind more so. That is what makes him seem so exceptional. There are many brilliant minds out there who can not formulate their thoughts with words with the same grace as Peterson. Just be mindful of this as manipulation through words is easy for people like JP, with ill intentions.
I also believe he has a lot of courage to face things unknown to him, in such an honest manner. I am also thankful, for I have learned a lot in this discussion myself, being spared the time it takes to stumble upon them somehow else.
When to brilliant minds converge… and we are graced with the benefits… enriched… I feel as a flower garden must feel when all it’s weeds are picked. “Ahhhh .. thank you”
*two*
@@GameLorePage You expect us to believe Jordan Peterson has ill-intentions?
To watch Jordan get Orange Pilled and recognize how Bitcoin can monetize stranded energy was a beautiful thing. Truly a joy to watch this interview
What is stranded enegy?
*energy
@MassAdoption 2022 Love this idea but how does it benefit, beyond the financial reward, unless the energy can be recouped or converted back from the produced bitcoin where it is ultimately needed?
Great question, I'd wondered about this too. My thoughts: money is the highest form of energy, able to convert human time / labor / skill into any other form of energy (mechanical, transportation, or the literal energy in your wall socket). So, if monetary energy is captured from stranded sources, and used to secure the bitcoin network, which secures people's wealth (who live in more populated areas), those people can convert that secured monetary energy into any other form, knowing that the miners have their property secured. Secure private property allows humanity to flourish without the concern that their time/energy will be stolen or inflated away. So the stranded energy is used for a net good when it secures people's monetary energy in the bitcoin network.
Stranded energy.
Energy is mainly generated to bring to market. However, when energy is too expensive to transport and sell in the open market it is considered stranded. There are plenty of known cases of active dams in highly remote locations where hydroelectric energy can be extracted but was never developed because building out that infrastructure to transport the energy to the closest large population was not cost effective (more expensive to build than the revenue of the sale of said energy). Bitcoin fixes that by monetizing that energy locally, by way of Bitcoin mining, without the expense of building transporting infrastructure.
Please get Dr. Ammous back on for more discussion on this, i was hooked listening to not only his experienced and interesting insight into crypto, but Dr. Peterson your ability to grasp quickly the concepts and appreciate the broad array of innovations bitcoin the infrastructure can bring. Awesome!
He's really, really good at explaining things in an understandable way. I wish I could do that.
Look up Micheal Saylor he is the evangelist multi billionaire for bitcoin.
The analogy used for the Byzantine Generals Problem basically goes like this: Several divisions of the Byzantine army are stationed just outside of an enemy city and are preparing for battle. Various generals can only communicate with each other via a messenger. They must agree upon a common course of action. However, we must assume that some generals are traitors who wish to prevent loyal generals from agreeing upon a common course of action. An algorithm is needed to ensure that a small group of traitors can’t disrupt communications. To solve the Byzantine Generals problem, loyal generals need a secure way to come to agreement on a plan (known as consensus) and carry out their chosen plan (known as coordination).
Thank you!
Good explanation, and to clarify; the generals are the nodes in the network, and the city is the block in the chain. If they succeed in capturing the enemy city by successfully agreeing on the time of attacking the city e.g. consensus of the network - then that would be an agreement on the current state of the blockchain.
Nice copy and Paste LOL
@@ascendrio The city isn't the block. Consensus pieces of the offensive strategy are the blocks in a block chain. Just as the attribution of hash solving to a particular wallet (proof of work) is a block in a cryptocurrency block chain. Basically, with cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin, the solution to the Byzantine Generals problem is the block chain itself, a distributed ledger of who (which wallet; I.e., account) successfully solved a piece of the hashing algorithm and has been automatically compensated with commensurate units of Bitcoin, as well as keeping a ledger of all subsequent Bitcoin transactions between wallets.
I'd start off by saying they should've had a plan or several before even arriving.
If this is not the first bout, why can't they just congregate for a split second after tactically retreating? I think horses were a thing then already.
If they didn't think to call that before battle, what are they doing leading hundreds or thousands of people? They can't even manage getting several on the same track.
And maybe, just maybe, if you're afraid of treachery from people in the know your plan isn't that good.
Look inside of yourself Byzantine Emperor, you know this to be true.
I'm full time in crypto and economics stuff ... Jordan Peterson is damn smart. Can't believe he is figuring out these high level problems in an interview, live in front of us. This stuff took me like 3 months of daily watching just to absorb and understand inside out. Hes a machine
Yes, that is amazing indeed.
it took me three years of research!
Until bitcoin is adopted by governments as a currency to pay TAX it will remain an asset, at the mercy of speculators & will always be subject to volitity. (boom & bust)
@@alistairgreen1272 there are already countries where the citizens use Bitcoin as currency without the governments permission (Nigeria), and countries where they use it with government sanction and even encouragement (El Salvador). There are businesses all over the world that accept it in payment of goods. Monetary phenomenon play out over entire lifetimes. Bitcoin will be the global standard within 20-30 years maybe sooner depending on how the cards fall for the Central Banks paper money experiment, a historical aberration lasting 100 years after millennia of hard money and primitive methods of debasement.
I can say this about Dr. Peterson; he's no joke, man.
What astonishing virtuosity. Their conversation reached the heights of intellectual stimulation. Fascinating information that opened the listener to whole new worlds of possibility and understanding. Dr Peterson's immediate grasp of the subject and curiosity untainted by prejudice is a model of what intellectual enquiry should be. Worth a few hours of anyone's time. Thank you so much to you both.
Dr.Peterson stumped Phd about the bitcoin inventor mysteriously gone. The bitcoin can disappear by being banned ie: China and Russia or some shenanigans like bringing in a cashless society in the USA.
Pseudo intellectualism at its best.
@@McDonaldsCalifornia this guy thinks he's smarter than Jordan
@@McDonaldsCalifornia look an angry sjw appears!
@@yoma2977 on this subject he is, most likely
A brilliant discussion. JBP’s ability to guide the dialogue, ask pertinent questions and interject his own ideas makes it way above the level of typical online discussions. I have recommended this discussion to several people who have all found it very informative.
I'm really happy you are hosting Austrian economists and the libertarian types. I would really suggest talking to Jeff Deist, president of the Mises Institute. He has such a great thought-process around these big ideas and he's a great speaker.
Have you seen the one he did with Malice? Obviously Malice isn't a Libertarian, but it's interesting nonetheless
@@sergiootero5904 if you have any logical sense of economics you literally HAVE to be a libertarian, if you have any logical sense of morality you also literally have to be a libertarian. Most people who aren’t simply haven’t studied enough
I will check him out thank you!
But is Bitcoin or crypto currency’s stable ?In prices they are quite volatile
@@tanjoy0205 That's because you're only looking short term. Just like he said, your time preference is messed up due to the fiat conditioning. You have to look 3-5, 10, 15 years. You are only looking at it day to day because you are hoping to spend the money tomorrow or next month. You have to reprogram your mind to think long term, look long term, the elites think like that, we have to start doing that as well. Peace
Every time you post I am reminded how lucky we are to have you back. I know the struggle you went through and so many cant win that fight. You continue to give me and I'm sure many others, hope when things seem hopeless. Thank you for being you.
So true
Thank you Jordan and Saifedean - until listening to this I was unable to gain the right perspective about Bitcoin, and now I do. I'm well and truly down the rabbit hole at 60!
I love how Jordan Peterson doesn´t know certain things, but he instantly predicts and understands the answers and their principles. This man is just excellent at thinking.
Vox Day accurately describes exactly what Jordan Peterson is. Unfortunately, people that are not that smart are easily taken by smooth talkers, like Barack Obama, who use their articulate and intelligent demeanors to hide the fact that they are nothing but empty, since pushing for other men’s agendas behind the scenes. Jordan Peterson has written all sorts of things for the UN, and if you read them, you will see what his true evil nature is.
I love Dr. Peterson's inquisitive curiosity to the new knowledge he is obtaining and how this new information fits into his understanding of what exists. AWESOME CONVERSATION!!!!!!!
Yup. Next, he needs to interview Jeff Booth, author of The Price of Tomorrow. That would be a great follow up to this conversation.
Agree. If wish I could do that more consistently.
🙏🌹♥️I could not agree more with you Jacobsladder, about Dr. J. P. Tremendous level of inquisitiveness.
I absolutely love the man’s openness and his love for Challenging ideas.
He is also very quick to ask highly relevant questions to better his understanding.
I love Peterson but I don't understand why he is so stumped by the need to reduce carbon emissions. Forget the grandiosity of "Climate Change", presumably we don't all want to live in smog. I live between Los Angeles and Las Vegas and it's blatantly obvious L.A. is engulfed in a giant smog cloud. Las Vegas hasn't quite got the smog cloud yet and it would be nice to keep it that way but if we are going to driving gas cars for another decade or two then the whole country will be as smoggy as Los Angeles.
You’ve made my Mondays exponentially better. Thank you for adding interesting conversation to my boring warehouse job🙏
Would be nice if Q4 would show the same results in candles
buy bitcoin so you can eventually quit the warehouse job
@@Taigirr what I thought. Probably he won't stay in the warehouse for that long.
buy some bitcoin my good man, we are here with open arms for all of Petersons followers
@@lordvoldemort1985 ... being bagholders first and later on in profits second ;)
I cried listening to this. Call me a softie. But it literally made me cry tears of happiness. Hearing Jordan getting it in real time is so surreal.
Not sure you'd be crying tears of joy if the economy collapsed because we put this man's ruinous economic ideas into practice.
What would happen? Firstly, the US government would need to cut spending by a trillion dollars (the deficit) . This would lead to an immediate recession as well as means severe cuts to essential services like police, fire, child services, etc... The US already had D rated infrastructure.
On top of this, most money creation actually comes from commercial banks and NOT the government. Its an outright lie based in ideology to claim it is. Someone with his qualifications must know that? If commercial banks cannot create money, then how on earth will people buy homes? Banks don't have enough reserves to cover demand. This also means no business and start up loans. This would lead to collapsed construction industry as people cannot afford homes without mortgages.
People really have to think these things through a bit more.
Money creation is an essential part of the economy. It quite literally pays to keep civilisation going and people like this guy are trying to undermine that system, and in turn, society. Rich countries are rich because they have central banks. Poor countries are often poor as they lack this ability. The monetary system is a miracle and important civilisational advance.
@@mdaniels6311 It quite literally does not pay to advance the way we are, because we are only thinking short term.
Let the US fall, let all governments fall and be rebuilt.
You think suffering won't get worse in either case? The system you are praising, is indirectly responsible for this. Change is never fun or pretty, but it's necessary.
@@mdaniels6311the economy as we know it is over leveraged and just because we will have to suffer the consequences of leaving the US’ terrible monetary policy doesn’t mean we should continue to suffer the consequences of staying within it. sometimes change means things get worse in the short term
@@mdaniels6311can you explain to me how my money can keep up with inflation any other way.?
How about Argentina where their fiat value changes by the hour. The United States has triple digit deficits that drives mass inflation. Apparently it’s the riches country by counterfeit. Bitcoin can not be counterfeit.
The majority are all getting poorer and poorer by the day internationally. With the exception of The 1% not so much.
Since the conception of bitcoin the value has increased by 1000% can you point me in the right direction to another savings avenue that performs on that level that has zero volatility? Bitcoin can be volatile for sure. But 1000% now?
The CBDC is coming and people will want control of what they THINK! Is theirs? I say think because you can not move 1 million dollars across boarders and not have it taken away because governments control your money. I can not e-transfer you $50,000 if I wanted to my money is controlled.
It’s not really yours at all then is it? If you have absolutely no say in your money. I’ve experienced a frozen account with $100;000 from a house sale. I was treated like a criminal till the 10 days of clearance by bank and government aka regulation could verify I’m not a cartel or terrorist. I was frozen solid. Couldn’t even buy a coffee for 10 days.
It is sovereignty at its finest and once you understand that concept the world will be in a better place.
Why am I only finding this a year after it was posted. Awesome discussion and observations on the corrupting power of Fiat money. Thank goodness for Bitcoin.
Google eased up on the censorship and are still shitting their pants after Elon blew the lid off their whole agenda.
I've never seen anyone "get it" as fast as Dr. Peterson did regarding energy abstraction. Political turmoil aside, these are exciting times.
Political turmoil is the rule. We just don't understand all the chaos of the past, based on the oversimplified way we learn and remember it.
@@user-xt5ue9zp3v yea..i was wondering the same...but me thinks that he is a "shark" and is commenting on the contoversies of the world..in order to remain in the public eye...(sorry jordan ...but i calls it like i sees it)
“If you built a machine that was smart enough to predict it (the future), the existence of a machine that smart would change the way that the future would manifest itself in a way that that machine couldn’t predict” Absolutely fascinating. This is why I love listening to him talk.
Let's go!!🚀send a direct msg right away 👆۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
So it wouldn't be a machine smart enough to predict the future
@@ieradossantos i was lloking for this cmment lol
If such a machine existed, would we be in the Matrix?
Currently the future is being invented, not predicted or left to it's own accord. It's an unfortunate circumstance.
Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable! ❤️
I have practically no education. I am old, disabled by a very rare disease.
I have also lived and worked abroad.
Met people from different walks of life
I see hope for the future and am always on the optimistic side.
It wasn't always like that in my turbulent life!
recently I hear
when it seems that hope is almost lost, I will still hope!
Never give up, the best is yet to come!
God bless you Julien. Keep up the good work sir!
Dr. Peterson is a great moderator, his questions permit a wider and deeper exchange - thanks to each of you I'm better informed, regardless of the Bitcoin bias.
Why do you say the interview has a Bitcoin bias?
This was brilliant. I’m glad Peterson got someone who properly understands economics to answer his questions.
It was excruciating. Having to listen to an economist talk about Bitcoin is like having to hear a chef's thoughts about farming. When Jordan asked actual questions about the functionality of Bitcoin he couldn't give a straight answer and deffered to the concept of Bitcoin rather than the function. Hair-pulling levels of frustration here.
@@Daffmeister187 you must be a programmer...
Once again I'm here to ask for Dr. Thomas Sowell on the podcast.
And Victor Davis Hanson, too. :)
This would blow my mind. So would a podcast with Peter Schiff.
@@dogperson432 I hope Dr. Sowell is in good health. He is a national treasure.
Jordan replied to this question and said that Thomas wasn't available, unfortunately
This was one of the most captivating interviews I’ve ever heard. Bravo to Dr. Peterson for asking the types of questions I, and surely many others, were stricken with along the way during the Saifedean’s thoroughly insightful lecture. A++ listen.
I still dont understand how fractional reserve banking is supposed to work. How can you invest 90% of a banks money and guarantee gains from it. Where does that money come from? Money is zero sum, so it has to come from somewhere....does it come from growth? Then what happens at a time like now when population isnt growing as fast? Seems like a huge problem without a solution.
I began my investment journey at the age of 38, primarily through hard work and dedication. Now at the age of 42, I am thrilled to share that my passive income exceeded $100k in a single month for the first time. This success reinforces the importance of the advice mentioned earlier. It is not about achieving quick wealth, but rather ensuring long-term financial prosperity.
Investors should exercise caution with their exposure and exercise caution when considering new investments, particularly during periods of inflation. It is advisable to seek guidance from a professional or trusted advisor in order to navigate this recession and achieve potential high yields.
This is superb! Information, as a noob it gets quite difficult to handle all of this and staying informed is a major cause, how do you go about this are you a pro investor?
Through closely monitoring the performance of my portfolio, I have witnessed a remarkable growth of $483k in just the past two quarters. This experience has shed light on why experienced traders are able to generate substantial returns even in lesser-known markets. It is safe to say that this bold decision has been one of the most impactful choices I have made recently.
Wow, that’s stirring! Do you mind connecting me to your advisor please. I desperately need one to diversified my portfolio.
I’ve actually been looking into advisors lately, the news I’ve been seeing in the market hasn’t been so encouraging. who’s the person guiding you?
Love to see JP being mind-blown by what bitcoin is doing.
Bitcoin is a scam. Huge scam.
@@tmo2798fiat currency is a scam, a huge scam.
Life is a scam. Huge scam.
@@mcdust144 Yes. And you use THAT to buy an even worse scam. They're doing you worse off of on another bad ripoff, you get ripped off twice, not just once [if you bought into Bitcoin, like lots of SUCKER MFERS DID]. Bitcoin is redundant and accomplishes nothing. You get taxed with 'fees'. They don't even have the dollars accounted for. They're not there. Dollars aren't in the accounts if people cash out. Sorry.
@@tmo2798 You are clueless.
Decentralized currency will replace the artificially inflated fiat system that will eventually crash to zero.
I would prefer listening to a conversation with these two over eating in a five-star restaurant any day! I loved every minute of it, especially watching JP's expressions of amazement when they talked about monetizing cheap energy. I've read The Bitcoin Standard, which was a mind altering book. Waiting excitedly on my copy of The Fiat Standard!
*bated breath
Such a rare pleasure in this age of simplistic, rushed, ill-informed, pseudo debate. A conversation based on respect and the exchange of ideas and pursuit of knowledge. All with the space and time to truly blossom. Sadly a rarity in this world.
If you enjoyed that book you should check out Thank God for Bitcoin by Robert breedlove and Co. J.P had him on the podcast too
i went on here to learn more on bitcoin and am now learning more on the naievety of the oversimplification of climate change activism....
This dialogue is an absolute must-see, especially for people new to the crypto market. Prof. Peterson brilliantly shows open-minded curiosity about a topic he has little experience in.
Excellent watch!
There's enough depth and density of valuable content and knowledge to create an entire course out of this conversation. Not just on the subject but also the beautiful interaction between these two esteemed thought leaders and intellectuals on a journey to truly understand how our complex world works. Thanks for spreading the light.
This was one of the best if not THE best conversations I’ve ever listened to. Testimony is …I’ve shared this with more people than any other podcast. Everyone reading this needs to do the same. The number of revelations to me and JBP were astounding. Pure gold…pun intended.
same, so engaging, soo much info.
Very true, let's go and share it with friends, family and even enemies :)
I tried doing this. But, it backfired... In a way that people already made up their minds on bitcoin....and nothing I could say or send would change their point of view.
This is one of the most profound podcasts I’ve ever listened to. My mind is a storm of thoughts, ideas and revelations.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏᴇ ᴡᴀᴄʜɪɴɢ,
sᴇɴᴅ ᴀ ᴅɪʀᴇᴄᴛ 👆📩ᴍᴀssᴀɢᴇ ɴᴏᴡ..
Right?!
So many light bulb moments. This podcast had me smiling so much and such terrific interaction.
@@jeffzuess9149 bitcoin it is ✨
Bitcoin- fix the money, fix the world
I have an immense appreciation for people like you who so generously share insight, thoughts, questions, and discourse openly. Thank you. It was very helpful as a springboard for seeking out more information.
His books and podcasts should be mandatory reading and listening to ALL economics students!! The information he provided has been eye opening to say the least.
Beyond Order. I’d say this is a fitting title for where Jordan’s going as an important figure. He’s built his orderly public persona to the masses so we know he understands the importance of traditional hierarchies now he’s doing deep learning about how these hierarchies have become corrupt so he can do his best to fix them.
And, to build on your statement; We can all take note and pay attention so that when the time comes to make decisions about how to move forward towards a better tomorrow, we can be better equipped to have the conversations that we need to have in order to do so.
Damn Jordan is a quick study. Loved seeing his curiosity, mixed with healthy skepticism and seeing the lightbulb go off over and over.
Fabulous interview. I never realized what a profoundly skilled interviewer Jordon Peterson actually is. He is so committed to fully understanding the guest’s point of view, and to establishing clarity on that understanding that deep learning on behalf of the viewer is paramount end result. Thank you, J. P., you are a gift to the science of logical thinking.
Your crypto talks have easily ascended into the top topics I love seeing from you. This episode was awesome!
I just watched Dr. Peterson get orange pilled in real-time. Fantastic discussion.
He did a Bitcoin episode before and that one was also awesome, recommend checking it out!
How fast Dr. Peterson picked up on the magnitude of the stranded energy problem was really fun to watch. Truly a bright mind to understand it so quickly just from a small comment by Saifedean.
Agreed. I've always thought that JBP's greatest ability is actually that of being able to listen to exactly what the other person is saying in a conversation.
This isn’t his first exposure to bitcoin. He knows more, but this is as much for the audience as himself.
One of the best episodes from Saif because Dr Peterson asked questions so well!! Thank you both
I really appreciate Peterson being brave enough to engage with ideas that he doesn’t immediately understand and may not come naturally to him. Pretty rare today.
I love how that finnally Saifadean was able to explain what other "experts" wasn't able to do, austrian economics and its features on bitcoin. I love it!
It’s literally because the other guys don’t actually understand the things they claimed to. I’m still on the outside of Bitcoin as a concept because of the primary reason of how value is determined, and I’m unconvinced that any tech is simply impervious. Coming from the world of tech a basic concept is nothing is without fault or vulnerability. It’s just a matter of time and effort.
@@racegod69 you should look more into it. It interesting stuff. It's security relies more on economic incentives and the rest is cryptographic verification.
@@mikemcguire5618 uhh mate. Read my comment on the main page. I go deeper.
This is the first person to make sense when speaking of crypto for me. All the other sound like loonies.
This guy changed my mind on bitcoin in about five minutes where dozens of hours of dudebros trying to failed.
Two brilliant minds with overlapping viewpoints but expertise in very different fields. What makes this conversation especially engaging is how intellectually honest they both are. They think critically and deeply, and they analyze these related concepts and questions in ways that others do not. I loved the last conversation JP had about Bitcoin, and this one is even better. Thank you.
Dr. Peterson, your ability to extract wisdom out of the minds of people is out of this world. This was one of the best interviews I have ever seen. Thank you.
Like so many of the posters here, I really, really enjoyed the conversation. I loved the fact that Jordan was humble and curious enough to ask questions that I think most of us wanted answers to. And the responses by Saifedean were so clear and illustrative! It was such a pleasure to have 2 engaging, articulate and intelligent individuals discuss this nebulous (to me) technology. And how it relates to so many things that are affecting modern society and government really answered some questions I've wondered about since I was young.
Funny, I'm currently reading his book "The Bitcoin Standard". Can't wait to listen to this! Thanks for the awesome content Dr. Peterson!
It's not like Satoshi Nakamoto means Central intelligence in Japanese or anything wake up people. You're getting played again...
@@shabbywabbythewatermelon6269 meaning the blockchain as a central ledger of transactions not so much a conspiracy
It's a great read👍🏻
Honest question, we know the dollar is backed by "nothing" but the nukes. The more nukes, the more "power" you have, hence why China makes more nukes and air carriers. What's your argument to that?
Prepared to be orange pilled
"The game theory analogy behind the Byzantine Generals Problem is that several generals are besieging Byzantium. They have surrounded the city, but they must collectively decide when to attack. If all generals attack at the same time, they will win, but if they attack at different times, they will lose. The generals have no secure communication channels with one another because any messages they send or receive may have been intercepted or deceptively sent by Byzantium’s defenders. How can the generals organize to attack at the same time?" -- Source: River Financial website
awesome
Loved learning more about Bitcoin here. Super heavy into crypto but embarrassingly have pretty much avoided Bitcoin or learning about Bitcoin.
I will say there's much more to be said about DeFi, smart contracts, NFTs and other new technology being forged on other chains. This is an incredibly exciting space, can't wait to see where it goes.
No Sir. Bitcoin is the way to go :)
Learn this, Peterson should know better by now. I'd like an update.
'Bitcoin', is not a 'coin' nor is it a 'currency'. 'Intrinsically', it is worth less than air- and ACTUALLY pollutes it [Bitcoin 'mining' consumes lots of energy, and it's actually not 'mining' at all, it's a waste of energy]. The Bitcoin logo is a gold coin with two lines through it. But it's not digital gold at all. It's a waste of scarce energy.
To buy in, you pay with 'fiat' currency, lets say.. US Dollars. You will also pay a fee in US Dollars to have an amount of US Dollars 'converted' to Bitcoin. That money will be tied up until you 'sell' it or 'convert' it back. You will be charged a fee for this action as well.
The price of Bitcoin goes up as more people buy in to it with fiat given the supply remains the same. That is what gives it its value, people paying fiat for 'Bitcoin'. 'Fiat' is vital to the propagation of 'Bitcoin'. That's how it is appraised- its appraisal is in fiat itself, making it extremely redundant and wasteful. This happens despite many energy shortages exist around the world and many people struggle to stay warm.
@AvatarVids You must not have liked what I suggested. You must be a ditzy blonde.. 'lady', I would think. Bitcoin is obtained by buying it with fiat. It's fiat with an added redundancy. You must've bought in to that scam, you ladies' man!.. or girl? Are you trans? What do you mean? Read your comment out loud to yourself and figure out what you meant, then let me know in a more concise fashion. You are detached from reality. Real apples are valuable, virtual apples... not so much. Good luck. Take your meds, sweetie.
Didn't know it was possible to be super heavy in crypto but not know how bitcoing works 🤔
@AvatarVids You communicate as if you haven't made it through grammar school. You poor child, you traded value for pollution. Bitcoin is not something as practical as the current fiat. It's just that simple. It's not as practical as Visa or MasterCard either, you poor child. You hypocrite. You poor creature. You bought in and got bamboozled. What a foolish little thing you are.
I love this conversation. Dr Petersson is actually one of the best hosts I have ever seen. Clever questions, give the guest space to answer and gives feedback and truly listens to the guest. Dr Petersson is as great as a host as he is as a guest.
Jordan Peterson is the perfect interviewer. Asks the questions i didnt even know i wanted answering in a clear and precise manner, as always.
Absolutely amazing discussion. Have been HODLing and learning about bitcoin for 1.5 years, and this video still managed to get me to look at this topic from new angles. Jordan, it's amazing how fast you grasp these complex topics - we can actually see you light-up as you do. Priceless.
That’s the beauty of bitcoin… I’m 5 years in and still learning new things daily about it.
@The Southern Cross majority advantage of what?
Only thing that they have majority advantage of is price discovery. The same is said for every other asset class that has emerged in history.
This is maybe the best interview you have conducted. Iv watched most of your videos and lessons.... But this subject is by far the most meaningful and important. Thank you for taking safe to your public!
The last part of decentralized educational accreditation is an incredible valuable topic to discuss and solve. It’s inevitable to avoid being more exposed to information online, but there’s a need to validate that information by some sort of a process, to ensure that we are not being exposed to dangerous or invalid ideas
every $1 you invest today is a little bit of time that you buy back in the future, the more you invest, the more free time you can afford in the future, having time and the freedom to choose what to do are the ultimate investing goals.
Exactly, that expression "buy back your time" well thats what investing allows you to do.
freedom for the future is why i am investing.
i've had people say to me they didint know you can start investing with small amount of money. they 100% can and a $1 start is better than nothing at all.
@@chris-pj7rk Nothing is too small to start with, i don’t just buy/trade anything for the sake of it, I seek the guidance of 'Katherine Rae Lobe' who has made me understand that strategy is everything, her strategy has brought 15x returns so far this year. I copy her trades in real time which i can confidently say i am impressed.
@@fredgallag6097 I have made some funny buys and investment, i need to salvage my portfolio by all means, please how can i contact this person?
I had studied Austrian Economics about 13 years ago. Listened to countless lectures, read a dozen or more books and pretty much knew what that school was going to say before they said it. Burnt out to the point where I didn't really pay attention to the for about five years.
Who else but Peterson to bring them back into my life?
I was in the middle of this debate in college back in 2010 with all my friends who studied Austrian Economics. Unfortunately, I listened to the naysayers at the time like Peter Schiff, who accurately predicted the national real estate crash, and Gary North. I ignored the likes of Max Keiser, who I respected and admired. I have regretted that decision for a long time.
@@DeRothschild oef.. ignoring Max haha good luck with that.. Personally I don't get why some talk bad about him. He is a raw, thoughtful and unfiltered source of knowledge and I think he has his heart in a good place, yup he can comment you, me or others, and that can feel shocking to some that instantly go into war mode.. instead of listening to what he says and maybe rethink your point, explain better or grow a extra pair. Because people who just give it to you straight are scarce in this world full of greed and lies.
And to people that say he's weird, I say, everybody that looks normal is acting
@@wichard9097 This was back in the early days of Bitcoin. There was a lot of uncertainty about it back then, and initially, Max was very critical of Bitcoin, if I recall correctly. I guess hindsight is 20/20. However, I'm fortunate I was aware of it early, and have been able to analyze it for a decade, and have been able to profit handsomely by investing in it.
Amazing! Sometimes you watch or listen to a discussion where the reasoning is so clear and the subject matter so profound that it makes you question your own understanding of the very world you transect within AND why you could not see it. This is that discussion. I re-watched many aspects of it and now I realise how unclear I actually was to the very basis of our western economic structure. I am so glad this change is happening and I get to witness it. With respect to Bitcoin, they say "Get off zero"...now I know why they do say it, that much more!
Absolutely brilliant!
You made me realize how intelligence is all about being able to quickly find the right questions to ask in order to understand something you know little or nothing about.
And btw, truly absorbing Bitcoin fundamentals in less than 2 hours (which is what happened here) takes a remarkable brain.
Best conversation ever, Thanks!
This podcast reminded me of a story my grandma once told me about her childhood. I had seen that she had a dollar bill on her bulletin board, and I had asked her why it was there. She explained to me that at a certain point when her parents had very little money, my great grandpa pinned up a single dollar bill on their wall and said that as long as they kept that bill right where it was, they would never run out of money.
Much love for Bitcoin and Jordan Peterson. Many thanks for covering this topic! 🤩
One of the best interviews you can find on youtube!!
Really enjoyed and learned so much throughout this conversation.
I didn’t know anything about many things before this but it got me really think about things and cleared out many issues. Dr. Saifedean is so knowledgeable, explains things simply and easy to follow, and Dr. JBP is amazing like always.
Thank you
The conversation that took place between the two of these amazing free thinkers was as close to "The Theory of Everything" as I have ever witnessed. I am grateful for both your contribution to humanity. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Imagine the day when Jordan understands that bitcoin not only transfers energy across the world at the speed of light without any wires, but also across time, into the distant future, with 0% leakage, making it the most efficient battery in human history.
Technically speaking, how is BTC a battery? Cause that makes no sense.
It's only as efficient as what anyone at a given time is willing to pay or trade for it. It has no inherent charge or energy. And it doesn't have zero leakage in any way if you're going to stick with that analogy. If you buy it now for 60 grand and send it to your pal a month from now and in three months he goes to "use the miraculous stored energy" of this perfect battery, but it's only selling for 30 grand now, he has experienced a 50 percent "energy loss".
How do you discharge this... Battery?
🤥
I agree with this guy, Bitcoin can be whatever the hell everyone agrees it is.
If we all agree it's a battery, then it's a battery.
Brilliant. Best interview with Saifedean Ammous yet.
One of the best interviews I have ever seen.
Watching Saifedean Ammous orange pilling Jordan Peterson is priceless...
A brilliant, fascinating and important discussion for our time. It left me breathless with all I learned. Thank you, Dr Peterson and Dr Ammous for waking up my 73 year old brain cells. Whenever I listen to JP I feel smarter. xo
Absolutely loved this I am early in my journey of Bitcoin and Dr Peterson formulated the difficult concepts in a way I could understand.
Wow! This discussion has been a great eye opener. I received fairly good classical economic training that has served me pretty well over the years but I have always seen pretty big holes in the process of using centralized monetary policy to regulate macro economics to avoid boom/bust cycles. I see a lot of value in the concepts presented here. Thank you gentlemen for patiently walking us through the foundations of digital currency vs fiat currency.
I find this response concerning because it sounds like by saying "digital currency" you might apply the properties of bitcoin to other cryptocurrencies or even central bank digital currencies. This isn't flawed thinking, it's fatal.
Digital currency (what we have already) and cryptocurrency ARE both fiat.
@@Kili121 Fatal to you perhaps. Since all currency speculation is not what I consider investing, it does not find a place in my portfolio. The concept is very interesting but unlike investing in a viable business, it still produces nothing and it's value is only determined by what the next guy will pay for it. Not my cup o tea.
@@barbaraherda9212 Opinions differ on this.
JP looking as fit as he’s been in a long time - great to see
Already know this is going to be a fantastic episode I'm so excited. I've been waiting for Dr Peterson to do some more episodes concerning Bitcoin since his first.
I hope next time he brings on someone who will tell the truth like digital asset investor or anyone else not part of the Bitcoin marketing machine
@@shabbywabbythewatermelon6269 is digital assets investor have a website?Thanks for posting your comment I'm grateful.... I haven't jumped on the Bitcoin train, I really need to understand and learn more about it.
@@foxontherun4844 totally always gotta do your own research, he's got a TH-cam channel it's digital asset investor. I will say this XRP is still under a bull sh*t lawsuit. When it's over with the SEC they will be going public and on demand liquidity for banks, corporations, govts go live. (Patented) also has patents with bank of America, Goldman, and I believe Wells Fargo. Listen to Tim draper talk to Gary gensler years back if you can find the clip. It's what's happening now suing competition, planting press stories and getting all the corrupt buddies to all gang up on it. Funny thing though is deepstate is trying to protect Bitcoin and Ethereum from decentralized global better tech that comes from San Francisco. CTO of XRP also wrote Bitcoin patent in 1988 but idea came from Marxist/ socialist Henry Ford
@@shabbywabbythewatermelon6269 Ohhh, so you're part of the XRP marketing machine then? And a conspiracy nut if you think "the idea [for Bitcoin] came from Marxist / socialist Henry Ford". The channel you recommend is simply shilling for XRP.
@@shabbywabbythewatermelon6269 Thank you for replying Shabby 👍🏻
Great video. One important thing when it comes to crypto is to trade and not hope on price rising and falling. Bitcoin is the future, investing in it now will be the wisest thing to do especially if you are been guided by a professional. I believe the benefits of a successful trade comes from an expert and that is why i made huge profit with the help of Mr Paul Singh, he's a genius and that's why i always advice novice to trade with him
@Shanel Green
I can share some that helped me
Plan towards it
Be minimal in spending
Save money wisely towards retirement
Save to invest, it's a proven way to get richer
@Shanel Green
There are lots of investing options (real estate ,stocks, gold silver, cryptocurrency, Airbnb, ETFS)
@Allbert Baster
A lot of people are rushing into trading without the knowledge of how it works and that's very wrong.. I advice you trade with an expert
@Shanel Green
I trade with Paul Singh he is a crypto prodigy and has handled my trade for over 6 months now... I made over $8k in my first week of trading with him
@Shanel Green >Orr What'sapp✙19102580961... ..
So happy that I've spent my time here. Thank you both of you!
Get Jeff Booth on next! He’s a Canadian entrepreneur who has very good insight into technology, climate change, bitcoin, and most importantly how all those things are interacting with one another. Would make a great discussion!
Hell yeah, fully agree, Jeff is my favorite person in Bitcoin
YES!
No
@@Gabekelley Me too. His book, the price of tomorrow, is amazing and should be read by everyone
Welcome Jordan to the future, thank you for all you do. We are so blessed to have you. Stay free, stay healthy.
One of the most enjoyable lectures I have ever listened to. Many thanks.
Absolutely soul-satisfying discussion, giving me hope for the future of education, dialogue and society. Can't say enough good about any number of the multitude of concepts delightfully explored. Bravo, you two!
Why? His economic theory put into practice would require most western governments to cut spending dramatically, which would lead to recession/depression and financial ruin. If banks couldn't create money, then most loans would be impossible. How will people get mortgages if banks cannot create money, because they don't have enough reserves to satisfy the demand.
Huge thank you to both Dr. Peterson and Dr. Ammous, it is an absolute gift to view this level of intellectual discussion for free
Time flies by when you’re captivated and inspired by a conversation. Brilliant minds in a open free genuine discussion that knocks you back to rethink why we are here. Thank you, Jordan & Saifedean, so grateful of your time!
This is the new type of media. Opposing the 15 second tik toks, these long, 3 hour long videos are the new form of education
I hope nobody was so dumb as to buy bitcoin as a result of this conversation.
@@USGrant21st Why is that dumb?
@@USGrant21st they don't talk about bitcoin market price at the time of conversation and they don't give you buy signals.
But if someone was stupid enough to buy btc at the market without knowledge and experience needed to understand when to buy, well, I hope that will teach him/her.
@@Andromedon777 well said. Long-form videos like this replenish us!
The intellecual stimulation mentioned by commenter Martin kept me listening for 2 hours! I have attention deficit and can't help but wish I had just one conversation like this one. Sadly, I'm not smart enough, but I enjoyed meeting Mr. Ammous. Jordan is a favourite anyway, and I learned a ton along with him as well. Great talk!
Absolutely fantastic podcast! I strongly hope you will get Saifedean Ammous on again for a second one.
Dr. Peterson talking about Bitcoin? My day just turned around. Haha 🤩
Wow... this really pulls apart the wise from the smart, I have known of the topics mentioned for a long time but never reached the depth or complexity that you both showed in this conversation. Now knowing what is it that's really happening with cryptocurrencies, currencies, governments and fiat related stuff, it really blows my mind that this insanity and genius is happening right in front of our eyes, unfolding as it is happening. I am really glad and thankful for this video and the discussion that happened here! Thank you very much for enlightening us, Dr. Peterson and Dr. Ammous!
Thank you for inviting him and asking such interesting questions!!!
Wow!!!! Jordan Peterson knows how to pick the guest and squeeze it to the best which makes the content very impressive. I am learning a lot. Good wishes and health to your Sir.
This episode was just amazing. And i loved how touched Peterson was when realizing that you can move energy with btc with close to zero cost.
@Richard C technically it does move energy across time and space given the fact that the energy exerted at mining is stored in another form of energy(monetary energy BTC). Energy is neither created or lost but transformed from one form to another.
@@racitup4114 Bitcoin is for everybody including flat earthers buddy.
@@racitup4114 Money is literally stored energy. Its literally a physical/digital manifestation of work sir. It's not a made up thing, it's just what it is. I get you don't like it but it's an apt/alternate description of what money is.
@@racitup4114 Work is energy, i think you're a victim of fiat education thinking it isn't. The computer science breakthrough called Proof of work is literally exerting computational power in form of heat energy to deter DDoS attacks. They called exerting energy proof of work. This is where trying to sound smart makes you sound dumb sir. Do better.
@@racitup4114 I see what you're saying now. I wasn't speaking in terms of bitcoin literally storing the energy expended in proof of work. I mean't it represents the energy expended, so maybe i shouldn't have used literal but in a philosophical sense. You're right and i was wrong, my apologies. You're correct that energy in action is work and work is our ability to exert force. But i thought raw energy itself is intangible?
Dr. Peterson did a fantastic job in this interview. Many of his questions were almost childlike, in the best sense of the word. He asked basic questions and came to the interview almost as if he were a blank slate on the subject. A very thoughtful discussion came out of this approach.
Magnificent questions and great answers. The understanding that this interview provides increases value of Crypto as collateral effect.
Excellent discussion. Great to see you two chat and the moment in which you pondered on the energy conundrum and watching the lightbulb go off in your head was amazing. I feel you will go on to become a great proponent of bitcoin and continue to do much good in the world. Hopefully you are now also over the recent health concerns that you have had to face. Much respect to both of you.
What a privilege to listen to these two minds
Holy moly, I have learned in this video more than I have learned in any cours I have taken in my life.
Jordan B is doing an excellent job. His guest is such a great intellect. Decentralisation of accreditation in education is one of the most important ideas they talked about. Very interesting
Extremely educational. Learned a lot about austrian economics and cryptos. Thank you.
Amazing content and interview. Dr. Peterson asked some truly piercing questions, It felt like he was making an honest effort to understand bitcoin, which ultimately helped us a lot. Mr. Ammous is quite knowledgeable and gave a unique prospective on bitcoin through the eyes of an Austrian School of Economics. Thank you.
I have a bad habit of theoretically break things.
Bitcoin is running on technology and technology can become obsolete quite quick.
So my question is, "When our current computers systems becomes obsolete will bitcoin be able to migrate over? Like, to a Quantum computers, or whatever new technology that comes out."
- "If so, what do you think will happen to bitcoin when a quantum computer can mine/work on a million computations at once?"
- "If not, will bitcoin 'crash' so we can start over on the new system, or will we just continue to use it until it becomes antiquated?"
If I recall correctly, Bitcoin use to be mined on the CPU, but then they managed to get the mining done on a GPU since it was more efficient. Which leads me to believe some part of it could be migrated over to a new system.
(Unless the new system runs on a whole new paradigm that doesn't work with the old system at all.)
I ask this because Moore's law has come to an end and we can't shrink our transistors any further to obtain all the benefit that provides. The only thing left is to multiply the micro chips and/or optimize the design to make it more efficient for whatever task it's performing.