you're not that wrong tho, Roman still maintain the name "Republic" and some Republican tradition in early Imperial period. but historian labeled that era as an Imperial Period, but Early Roman Emperor are kinda lying to themselves and the people by maintaining "Republic" as an official name. care to help Master Historia Civilis?
Airlangga Julio They actually never called themselves "republic" but "res publica" instead, which basically means "thing (meaning task in that context) of the people". The word republic just evolved from this
Okay, so purple is definitely a populist candidate, and orange is probably highly conservative and patrician-favoring. Nobody voted for both, and the poorer classes overwhelmingly wanted purple.
The reason for the 3 assemblies is because the assembly of the centuries was a hold over from the early republic where most citizens were also in the army, so they lined up in their military ranks to vote for what were positions that in early Rome were mostly military. Consuls used to lead armies in battle. The Tribal assembly elected jobs that were for the people and the city in general...non-military jobs. The last assembly elected officials that looked after the rights and the voice of the mob, the plebs.
@@robertjarman3703 only tangentially. They were in charge of the census. So they made official what tribe and century you were in. Also what social rank.
well, that's _a_ reason, and probably a good one back in the very early days of the Republic, but it should be said that the old property classes reflected in the Centuriate Assembly quickly became irrelevant as soon as Marius allowed the poor to enlist. no matter the reasoning before the Marian reforms, the fact that the urban poor afterwards were still corralled in one out of 300 or so centuries makes it clear there was no desire to enfranchise these people, even though they're *increasingly dependent* on these same people for military manpower.
The thing that impresses me most about Roman organization was how they had downward influence by the upper class and upward influence by the lower class. This is even reflected in their military, as Historia Civilis pointed out in a different video. It's unfortunate though that the tribal assembly wasn't ever reformed to better represent the people of Rome. I guess reforming an entire arm of the government would be a difficult thing to do, especially since the ones wanting the reform would be the poor and the ones wanting it to stay would be the rich.
It's sad how often we see this. Everyone will ultimately be better off with the reforms but the powerful group will be worse off in the short term so they block them.
Yes i am sure everyone would've been better off with officials elected by the illiterate lower class. Im sure that the year this change would take effect the roman state WOULDNT go bankrupt from redistributing all its assets and treasure to the poor because these people care for nothing else
Considering the Roman “patronage” system, even if the patricians and equites “only” have 18 votes between them, they were probably the patrons of much of the first class, making them very loyal to the patricians and equites. The first class would probably themselves be patrons to the second, third, and fourth classes..
also the whole system of the assembly of the centuties was based on raising armies, and in republican Rome you either bought your equipment yourself or had a patron to buy it for you. From that point of view makes sense that the guys who would pay for the war would vote first on the assembly in charge of deciding if we're going to war. It also isn't like we're talking about the modern elite, constantly finding excuses to dodge the draft, we're talking Romans, the young first class men voted first because they were absolutely going to be amongst the people actually fighting the war AND paying for many others affiliated to their Gens to join it. Older first class people who would stay home voted after them.
@@lorefox201 To be fair, the middle and later the lower classes were still the overwhelming majority of the ones fighting and dying while the ultra wealthy were the main beneficiaries of the land, loot, and slaves acquired through conquest. After all, the whole reason the Legionary system was implemented is because too many landed farmers (the kind of people who could purchase armor and leave to go to war) were dying and having their land bought up by the ultra wealthy (using loot plundered from abroad) who then created plantations (using slaves taken from abroad) who became stiff competition for smaller farms.
Considering the time this was organized in and limitations in communication and transport, I'm actually quite impressed with the system they came up with.
I'm primarily amazed just how many checks and balances were there to ensure lack of power abuse. It's particularly embarassing just how far from these ideals the Eastern Empire fell over the centuries, deveolving into neo-pharaonship.
@@yarpen26it's much easier to have this system in a city state with less territory and homogenous population. The larger you are and "diverse" the more authoritarian the government.
@@yarpen26These checks and balances were designed to protect the interest of rich landowners, slavers and urban landlords, who didn't like when reformers like Gaius Gracchus and Julius Caesar gained popularity and tried to uproot some of the worst excesses of aristocratic system and were perfectly okay with political assasinations and supporting military dictators like Sulla or Octavian, who destroyed the Republic that they supposedly loved, because they protected their interests.
Gotta say I just love your level headed tone and over all knowledgeable yet uncondescending manner. Even the final political remark you made was extremely well placed. Please, keep up the good work!
1:40 8 Classes (1) Patrician, Prestigious Families (8 voting blocks) (2) Eqeitus, The Most Rich, (12 voting blocks) (3) The First Class, The Normal Rich (80 Voting Blocks) 2:34 (4-6) Second Class, Third Class, Fourth Class, (20 blocks) 3:28 (7) Fifth Class (30 Blocks) (8) The Proletarii- The Urban Poor (5 Blocks) JR Blocks And SR Blocks If you win a majority in the first 3 classes, you win. If not. Keep Voting 7:20 If The Elites Agree, The Elites decide If The Elites disagree, the lower classes get to decide 7:44 *The Tribal Assembly*
@@KeiwaM it is simply a block. Each block being a fenced area that people where free to pick, in which they wanted to vote. The block has nothing to do with the senators. Think of a block as a bucket, each voting citizen is allowed to cast his vote into only one bucket. And that bucket becomes one vote based on the highest result. It doesn't matter how many people vote or how few votes, the amount of buckets remains the same. This is not the usa electoral college
@@KeiwaM 1st of all, the senators were elected for life, and becoming a senator wasn't a goal, but rather the first step in their career, you can learn more about it by watching the channel's video on cursus honorum. Secondly, to become a senator, one must be elected as a quaestor by the *Tribal assembly,* as shown in the video. And my third point has already been stated by @Lord-Admiral Thor.
Sam Yes. The de facto Republic died with him but Christianity was already sweeping across the Europe by the time the Empire was proclaimed. Historians are just lazy and call Augustus the 1st Emperor becuase de facto he was. So if anyone ever asks you why the Romans didn't have an obvious dynastic secession until Byzintine times, you can tell them it's becuase they were 'elected' republican Councils and not actually monarchs for most of the Classical Empire.
David Kelly Thanks :). Then, it's a serious historical misconception. I never hear people mentioning this. I think that the word: 'Imperator' probably caused the confusion.
We currently call emperors people who had a bunch of different titles, like augustus, princeps, caesar... for the sake of simplicity. Technically they were only the first citizen of the republic, but everyone knew they were basically kings. These formalities weren't ditched until the 3rd century CE, if I'm not wrong. In a similar way, almost every current dictatorship claims to be a democracy or similar form of government.
to be fair weighted conditional voting is mostly universal voting*** its done by voter suppression, econmic disencrafment and mass culture as opposed the law says no @@Gobrech So it is different and better(depending where you live exactly) but not solved
@@jon-michaelsampson1120 You can be highly educated, and still be the village idiot... That's very common with the "educated" being convinced they are superior by merit of a piece of paper, or they simply think they can not be deceived.
My god, the final remark about disenfranchised plebians stacking the Democratic system they had control over with "dangerous men" really makes you think about contemporary systems of democracy
He also made the remark that the plebeians were muzzled by the other forms of Roman politics, so they turned to the one office they had. Why blame the plebeians for what the rich elites had control over? They had murdered Tiberius Gracchus and blocked his moderate land reform bill that the elites had illegally owned, even by the standards of Roman law at the time. What did they have to turn to from there?
@@robertjarman3703 >Murdered Gracchus The Gracchus brothers were militant land reformers threatening to take up arms against Rome to the point of causing rioting in Rome.
I love these videos. So informative and well thought out. The graphics are never flashier than is needed to express ideas effectively. I have learned so much about Rome and especially it's government from your channel. This is another AMAZING video, keep up the good work and thank you for making videos.
The problem with roman elections is that they all occurred in Rome. In the 1700s all the way to the electronic age, the UK and U.S. voted locally and sent representatives to the capital. Much better idea.
@@mr.moonthegoon4178in the US it was designed so that these representatives could change their assigned vote when they arrived at the capital. Probably a good idea back when it took months to travel but it's technically still allowed and should really be fixed. Also the whole idea of the electoral college is severely outdated. Most Americans' votes don't matter because they live in safe states and it also means that several times a president has been elected without winning the popular vote.
I love how he took the time to make sure the vote counts on the screen matched the number of squares corresponding to each separate candidate colors. He actually made sure to count the squares by color so the graphics would be accurate representations instead of just copying and pasting squares randomly and then picking arbitrary numbers
Jon Snew our system in the United States is a representative Republic the closest thing they have to that here what's the tribal council except ours is it hereditary if there's was representative depending on Providence it would be more like United States
The only thing I would change in your videos is the pronunciation of Latin vocabulary. Besides that, it's perfect. The production value is incredible. Keep up the awesome work
Thank you very much for your vids. I love Roman history, but it is sometimes hard to understand how something came to pass without reading 2 tons of volumes and you make everything much more clear. Again, thang you for a very well done job.
People say that the electoral college is confusing. It’s the congressional districts that make it confusing, and sometimes have people elected who didn’t get a national majority. Good ol Jerrymandering (jarymandering?) I believe there’s this district, in Illinois maybe, that is so obviously biased, where it looks like a pair of wings connected my a few-mile long path on a highway.
Fuzzy Dunlop Not really, considering US is a federation of states and not a unified country. The Voting system obviously must reflect that, otherwise you'd get total imperialism of the few states with large population centers at the expense of the underdeveloped states, which in turn would maintain that imbalance ad infinitum, making China-like overpopulation a viable political tactic for each state wishing for political power.
I've always wondered, did they have a junior first class vote first before anyone else as a demonstration of how voting works and to make sure everyone was following procedure? A sort of test run so to speak to troubleshoot any problems that may arise?
Tribes in the original use was basically a congressional district. The romans at first had three tribes (the word means tri- bhue, 'three places'). They kept expanding it (just like the US did with the electoral college) until they got to 35, then they stopped increasing the number and geographically expanded the tribes (sort of like modern Gerrymandering). One big thing that should be mentioned is that the voting system was integrally tied to the miltiary system. Each voting class was a different position in the military. Patricians=senior officers, who had to be rich because they could be charged to pay for irregularities in the defense budget. Equites were the cavalry (hence our word Equestrian). They had to buy their own horses and feed them, very expensive. The first class were the triarri, infantry that wore expensive heavy armor. The second class were the Principes, infantry with slightly cheaper armor. Third class were hastati, infantry with still cheaper armor, fourth were velites, light/poor infantry without any armor who skirmished with arrows and javelins and performed minor functions for the army. The proles who had no property could not serve in the army (which also is why there was never a rebellion of pissed off poor people, they were not armed and had no military experience). Everyone in the army had to pay for their own weapons, armor, aimals, even 10 days of rations when they were first called up (the military started to feed you after 10 days, by then you would be 200 miles from Rome and your general would have coordinated food from an allied town). The army wasn't paid at first but their compensation was captured property from the enemy they were fighting. This is all from Polybius writing about the Roman Republican army around 260 BC. The Marian reforms of 100 BC significantly changed this system.
"I can't help but think that if the poor hadn't felt muzzled in the Assembly of the Centuries and the Tribal Assembly, they wouldn't have felt it necessary to stack the one office they had control over with dangerous men." Does this remind you of something?
Not really, no. Trying to compare American politics in any fashion to this is folly. Context matters, and the context in the modern day is radically different from ancient Rome.
An expansionist republic (which always claims to be defending itself) centralizes governmental power over time, particularly after a period of civil war, eventually giving an unreasonable amount of power to one office. Social tension due to institutionalized economic disparity is used by dangerous populists to get elected.
The American system was built from the Roman one. The founders all had classical educations, and knew how the Republic ultimately failed. They truly viewed what they were doing as an experiment, as many if not most people in the world at the time did not believe Democracy could work. They struggled to balance the power into co-equal branches, wrote moderately clear rules that prevented the worst shenanigans of Rome's politics, even built in a system to amend those rules but required a super majority so the system would not swing wildly and become unstable. They even had the sense to separate it away from religion. Limited the influence of the military, and basically did all they could imagine to prevent demagoguery from creating an American dictator. It has only failed once in two and a half centuries, over slavery, which required violence to change. It seems pretty solid.
@@kekero540Yeah, but watch the democratic party, the Elites cast their vote First, and do not Matter what the people says after a "Presumptive Nominee" is Elected,
It reminds me of the caucus systems still used during American primaries. Exclusionary, a little too easy to manipulate, and favoring those with the leisure time to participate.
Thank you for this level of detail. I have a fairly good general knowledge of late Republican/early Imperial Rome, and I was vaguely aware there were voting blocs, but have never seen an explanation this good.
even though it wasn't a battle and that's primarily what I like this actually is probably my favorite video now from you because this is one of those things that neither Astorian for a textbook could teach me that well but you put it in very simple terms that I can understand
Ohh, okay. I actually can't see a single colour, so it's different kind of color blindness with me. I hope he sees your comment and changes that since more people liked it. Though he probably only responds to emails.
That last bit is such a good analogy for what happened in the United States. If the poor hadn't felt muzzled in congress (because 90% of the time the person with the most money in congressional races wins, and 0% of legislation is based off of what the people say they want) they might not have elected someone so insane and dangerous to the office they felt they had control over, who said he would improved their lives.
Considering that this video was uploaded just a week before Trump's inauguration, I can definitely imagine this is what he was alluding to by making the extremism comment.
it's gerrymander and unrepresentative. It's not comparable to CGP Grey's suggestion because they were all based on direct elections, not sublocks counting as a single block. It also has no trasnative system for the voting so doesn't even perform the base concept of the STV.
Okay, NOW I can see why you didn't want to go over elections... Sorry for putting you through the immense tedium to talk about this. Great video though!
"Patricians were the most notable families, not necessarily the richest, but the ones who had a history of great public service". This is where nations get it wrong now. Money rules and only money.
You can see some elements of the Electoral College in this system, although in modern days everyone gets into the individual voting blocks, and are forced to vote together based on the majority of the state.
So basically your final point is that when the government intentionally neglects a majority demographic of people from being represented, they vote in crazy hard liners? Does anyone think that relates to current politics?
I just imagine someone explaining this to a young Julius Caesar and him just throwing his hands up and going "Fuck that noise, Imma take this bitch over."
it was slowly cobbled together as rome grew. patricians get the top spot because they are the original romans, expanding from there. add in the social war and the threat of a pleb exodus and you get the different assemblies. the quirks were negotiated to trade and secure political power
victoneter Most republics form over time, the structure that Historia talks about is usually how it had come to be in the mid-to-late republic. Remember the Roman Republic lasted for nearly half a millennia, and in that time they created a plethora of new offices, rules, and institutions to perpetuate their power. You literally can see the plebeians push back in the early republic, but they didn't do so well adapting to the changes in wealth dynamics and military reforms which led to their ultimate fall
Chris Read As much as I dislike the electoral collage I'd rather have that than a direct popular vote. I don't having 3/4 states decide every election.
Next time there is an electoral collage complaint by someone from US people should watch video for worst case scenario for what passes as democracy (at least to some). Not that the electoral collage is great but this is what 1% ruling really looks like.
Rome was a republic. the USA is a republic. true democracy is a pipe-dream that only works in city-states. If you stop to think about it, the idea here is clearly to prevent the vote going entirely to uneducated farmers who live in the sticks and know nothing of political goings-on, which, isn't a problem now, but back then, there was no newspapers or anything like that. also, Roman education was based on tutoring, or later on, paid academies, therefore, the lower in class you are, the dumber and less aware of current events you are. sure, there's word of mouth, but do you want voting to be done based on the world's largest game of 'telephone'? The idea of all of this is to put power in the hands of the best educated and best connected. and, for the most part, it worked out pretty well.
Nope, that's not right. The Electoral College makes only swing states matter. You're a democrat in rural Texas? Good luck, your vote is worth shit.. Republican in Northern California? Good luck for you too. It's an archaic system that has no use in modern politics.
If Julius Caesar doesn't win, I am moving to Gaul.
Imperator Caesar Divi Filius Augustus when u planning on going I'll come with u
Hadrian had better build that wall and make the Picts pay for it.
Julius Caesar (I'm with him)
Parthians hacked the elections.
Hadrian is literally Sulla.
Caesar is treating us so well he's made us into equites
Haahaha yesh
Y'all horses people now
Noice
Lmao
Can't stand the centurions though...
I've never seen someone so carefully not mention someone while mentioning them so very loudly before.
[cough] CAESAR [cough]
I love your vidoes. Never thought I would see you here.
I also love your videos and never thought I’d see you here! Great channels the both of you!
I came, I saw, I subscribed.
HAHAHAHA
Pure gold.
Veni, vidi... subscribi?
@@sacredbolero "subscripsi" should be better, but "inscripsi" is more correct (and if we want to be perfectionists, it should be "me inscripsi").
I praise the lord
"Jesus Christ, it's already complicated enough"
vesteel yeah that made me laugh
vesteel
G
Jesus Christ was a traitor You’re going to the colosseum
Who's this Iesus Cristus you speak of?
@@mattaffenit9898Spoiler alert
The gods have blessed us with a new video. Praise the imperator, mighty Historia Civilis.
_"The Assembly of the Centuries"_
*WOW!!!*
_"Century as in Roman military unit"_
_oh..._
Gotta admit it's still a very cool name
As in centurions
@@Vercingetorix.Rising
*Centuriones. Of their centuriae.
Yes I'm being extremely pedantic.
still cool as fuck
I mean, it's not like the assembly was only made up of the military, so at least there's that. And the name still being awesome.
Stopped learning for exams so I could get educated in politics of ancient Roman empire.
What have you done to me?
*Republic:)
Have to spend more time on education it seems.
you're not that wrong tho, Roman still maintain the name "Republic" and some Republican tradition in early Imperial period. but historian labeled that era as an Imperial Period, but Early Roman Emperor are kinda lying to themselves and the people by maintaining "Republic" as an official name.
care to help Master Historia Civilis?
Airlangga Julio They actually never called themselves "republic" but "res publica" instead, which basically means "thing (meaning task in that context) of the people". The word republic just evolved from this
I love schooling kids on ancient roman politics
I see a new Historia Civilis video; I watch immediately.
beautiful
splendid, old chap
WheresWallace4883 thath maketh thou a loyal subscriber
So you are a simple men then.
I see a Historia Civilis video that I've already watched a bunch of times, I still click
loving that 60 frames,
silky smooth
Jon Deal Cancer cured
Jon Deal Cancer cured
Silky smooth squares moving through the screen.
I got news for you: it's just effectively 30fps with each frame doubled. No interpolation effect. Just as God intended.
@@SamAronowdidn’t expect to see you here
Okay, so purple is definitely a populist candidate, and orange is probably highly conservative and patrician-favoring. Nobody voted for both, and the poorer classes overwhelmingly wanted purple.
Nah, orange is lukewarm. Green is the real conservative.
Kharmitas you have an anime profile picture, weeb
@@jensjensen9035 oooo my man did you dirty
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
The reason for the 3 assemblies is because the assembly of the centuries was a hold over from the early republic where most citizens were also in the army, so they lined up in their military ranks to vote for what were positions that in early Rome were mostly military. Consuls used to lead armies in battle. The Tribal assembly elected jobs that were for the people and the city in general...non-military jobs. The last assembly elected officials that looked after the rights and the voice of the mob, the plebs.
Semi-related: equites and cavalier both mean horseman.
@@jy3n2 pretty cool
What did the censors do that was tied to the army?
@@robertjarman3703 only tangentially. They were in charge of the census. So they made official what tribe and century you were in. Also what social rank.
well, that's _a_ reason, and probably a good one back in the very early days of the Republic, but it should be said that the old property classes reflected in the Centuriate Assembly quickly became irrelevant as soon as Marius allowed the poor to enlist.
no matter the reasoning before the Marian reforms, the fact that the urban poor afterwards were still corralled in one out of 300 or so centuries makes it clear there was no desire to enfranchise these people, even though they're *increasingly dependent* on these same people for military manpower.
The thing that impresses me most about Roman organization was how they had downward influence by the upper class and upward influence by the lower class. This is even reflected in their military, as Historia Civilis pointed out in a different video. It's unfortunate though that the tribal assembly wasn't ever reformed to better represent the people of Rome. I guess reforming an entire arm of the government would be a difficult thing to do, especially since the ones wanting the reform would be the poor and the ones wanting it to stay would be the rich.
It's sad how often we see this. Everyone will ultimately be better off with the reforms but the powerful group will be worse off in the short term so they block them.
Yes i am sure everyone would've been better off with officials elected by the illiterate lower class. Im sure that the year this change would take effect the roman state WOULDNT go bankrupt from redistributing all its assets and treasure to the poor because these people care for nothing else
the poor shouldn’t have any input, it’s not their money being spent
@@MikehMike01 Get out of here, Mitch McConnell.
@@MikehMike01 dude does NOT want to leave the crab bucket
Considering the Roman “patronage” system, even if the patricians and equites “only” have 18 votes between them, they were probably the patrons of much of the first class, making them very loyal to the patricians and equites. The first class would probably themselves be patrons to the second, third, and fourth classes..
that's a very good point
also the whole system of the assembly of the centuties was based on raising armies, and in republican Rome you either bought your equipment yourself or had a patron to buy it for you.
From that point of view makes sense that the guys who would pay for the war would vote first on the assembly in charge of deciding if we're going to war.
It also isn't like we're talking about the modern elite, constantly finding excuses to dodge the draft, we're talking Romans, the young first class men voted first because they were absolutely going to be amongst the people actually fighting the war AND paying for many others affiliated to their Gens to join it.
Older first class people who would stay home voted after them.
@@lorefox201 To be fair, the middle and later the lower classes were still the overwhelming majority of the ones fighting and dying while the ultra wealthy were the main beneficiaries of the land, loot, and slaves acquired through conquest. After all, the whole reason the Legionary system was implemented is because too many landed farmers (the kind of people who could purchase armor and leave to go to war) were dying and having their land bought up by the ultra wealthy (using loot plundered from abroad) who then created plantations (using slaves taken from abroad) who became stiff competition for smaller farms.
Historia Civilis can you do video about running a bussiness in Rome, or really about how hard/easy was it to get wealthy for regular citizens?
That would be interesting
That would be interesting
That would be interesting
That would be interesting
That would be interesting
Considering the time this was organized in and limitations in communication and transport, I'm actually quite impressed with the system they came up with.
I'm primarily amazed just how many checks and balances were there to ensure lack of power abuse. It's particularly embarassing just how far from these ideals the Eastern Empire fell over the centuries, deveolving into neo-pharaonship.
@@yarpen26it's much easier to have this system in a city state with less territory and homogenous population.
The larger you are and "diverse" the more authoritarian the government.
@@yarpen26These checks and balances were designed to protect the interest of rich landowners, slavers and urban landlords, who didn't like when reformers like Gaius Gracchus and Julius Caesar gained popularity and tried to uproot some of the worst excesses of aristocratic system and were perfectly okay with political assasinations and supporting military dictators like Sulla or Octavian, who destroyed the Republic that they supposedly loved, because they protected their interests.
Gotta say I just love your level headed tone and over all knowledgeable yet uncondescending manner. Even the final political remark you made was extremely well placed.
Please, keep up the good work!
1:40 8 Classes
(1) Patrician, Prestigious Families (8 voting blocks)
(2) Eqeitus, The Most Rich, (12 voting blocks)
(3) The First Class, The Normal Rich (80 Voting Blocks)
2:34 (4-6) Second Class, Third Class, Fourth Class, (20 blocks)
3:28 (7) Fifth Class (30 Blocks)
(8) The Proletarii- The Urban Poor (5 Blocks)
JR Blocks And SR Blocks
If you win a majority in the first 3 classes, you win. If not. Keep Voting
7:20 If The Elites Agree, The Elites decide
If The Elites disagree, the lower classes get to decide
7:44 *The Tribal Assembly*
Is each block equal to one senator or how does it work? I really didn't understand this
@@KeiwaM it is simply a block. Each block being a fenced area that people where free to pick, in which they wanted to vote. The block has nothing to do with the senators. Think of a block as a bucket, each voting citizen is allowed to cast his vote into only one bucket. And that bucket becomes one vote based on the highest result. It doesn't matter how many people vote or how few votes, the amount of buckets remains the same.
This is not the usa electoral college
@@KeiwaM 1st of all, the senators were elected for life, and becoming a senator wasn't a goal, but rather the first step in their career, you can learn more about it by watching the channel's video on cursus honorum.
Secondly, to become a senator, one must be elected as a quaestor by the *Tribal assembly,* as shown in the video.
And my third point has already been stated by @Lord-Admiral Thor.
Is it true that, even when Augustus became the first emperor, the Romans still pretended it to be a republic?
Sam Nero was the 1st to proclame himself an Emperor. Those that came before ruled as dictators with Imperium.
David Kelly Isn't that the same title that Julius Caesar was proclaimed to? Essentially being dictator for an unlimited period?
Sam Yes. The de facto Republic died with him but Christianity was already sweeping across the Europe by the time the Empire was proclaimed. Historians are just lazy and call Augustus the 1st Emperor becuase de facto he was.
So if anyone ever asks you why the Romans didn't have an obvious dynastic secession until Byzintine times, you can tell them it's becuase they were 'elected' republican Councils and not actually monarchs for most of the Classical Empire.
David Kelly Thanks :). Then, it's a serious historical misconception. I never hear people mentioning this. I think that the word: 'Imperator' probably caused the confusion.
We currently call emperors people who had a bunch of different titles, like augustus, princeps, caesar... for the sake of simplicity. Technically they were only the first citizen of the republic, but everyone knew they were basically kings. These formalities weren't ditched until the 3rd century CE, if I'm not wrong. In a similar way, almost every current dictatorship claims to be a democracy or similar form of government.
I am a simple man.
I see Historia Civilis I press like.
I am a simple man
I hear Historia Civilis' voice and I pull down my pants and...
Civilis is love, Civilis is life.
@@Kaebuki LOL
All hail the great leader Historia Civilis
Khorps read the bible
Proletarii?
Oh no...
They're here.
*Soviet anthem plays faintly*
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😋😂😂😋😋😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I AM THE PROLETARII
Moskau, Moskau
Wirf die Gläser an die Wand
Russland ist ein schönes Land
Ho ho ho ho ho, hey
D’oooh!
Marx just stole all his words, and any of his good ideas, from other better men anyway
And this is why I laugh so hard when I see so many movies claiming Rome was a democracy.
to be fair weighted conditional voting is mostly universal voting*** its done by voter suppression, econmic disencrafment and mass culture as opposed the law says no @@Gobrech So it is different and better(depending where you live exactly) but not solved
Poor people are most always less educated and potentially less intelligent so I think limiting voting rights for the lower classes is a great idea.
@@jon-michaelsampson1120 You can be highly educated, and still be the village idiot... That's very common with the "educated" being convinced they are superior by merit of a piece of paper, or they simply think they can not be deceived.
I laugh just as hard when people think we are much different lol
@@jon-michaelsampson1120do you think people in third world countries are less intelligent?
My god, the final remark about disenfranchised plebians stacking the Democratic system they had control over with "dangerous men" really makes you think about contemporary systems of democracy
Reminds me of today's political landscape.
He also made the remark that the plebeians were muzzled by the other forms of Roman politics, so they turned to the one office they had. Why blame the plebeians for what the rich elites had control over? They had murdered Tiberius Gracchus and blocked his moderate land reform bill that the elites had illegally owned, even by the standards of Roman law at the time. What did they have to turn to from there?
@@robertjarman3703 >Murdered Gracchus
The Gracchus brothers were militant land reformers threatening to take up arms against Rome to the point of causing rioting in Rome.
@@robertjarman3703 Tiberius Gracchus was self appointed dictator, you are clearly biased.
@@Leo-vr3bg Yup, the brothers wanted absolute power under disguise of "social justice".
Dude, you have an error where you labeled the "Plebeian Assembly" as "The assembly of the centuries" at time 13:24.
Thought you should know.
just quietly whispered 'yes!' to myself when i saw this upload
Historia Civillis uploads a video. Day = made
You have single handedly rekindled my love for Roman history. Thank you!
I am from France and I thank you for add the subtitles (I don't know how that write) because it's easier to understand with them
I love these videos. So informative and well thought out. The graphics are never flashier than is needed to express ideas effectively. I have learned so much about Rome and especially it's government from your channel. This is another AMAZING video, keep up the good work and thank you for making videos.
The problem with roman elections is that they all occurred in Rome. In the 1700s all the way to the electronic age, the UK and U.S. voted locally and sent representatives to the capital. Much better idea.
Yeah, but should take into account that they didn't see the rest of their territory as "Rome", per se. (at least during the Republican era).
Also who's to say that representative is giving accurate results after traveling for weeks to give a result they don't agree with.
@@mr.moonthegoon4178in the US it was designed so that these representatives could change their assigned vote when they arrived at the capital. Probably a good idea back when it took months to travel but it's technically still allowed and should really be fixed. Also the whole idea of the electoral college is severely outdated. Most Americans' votes don't matter because they live in safe states and it also means that several times a president has been elected without winning the popular vote.
I love how he took the time to make sure the vote counts on the screen matched the number of squares corresponding to each separate candidate colors. He actually made sure to count the squares by color so the graphics would be accurate representations instead of just copying and pasting squares randomly and then picking arbitrary numbers
This TH-cam Channel is terribly underrated.
(Insert 2016 presidential election joke here)
Luckily the American system is much more simplified.
Jon Snew our system in the United States is a representative Republic the closest thing they have to that here what's the tribal council except ours is it hereditary if there's was representative depending on Providence it would be more like United States
(Insert a racist joke about the colors in the video here)
(insert comment here)
(Triggered comment here)
The only thing I would change in your videos is the pronunciation of Latin vocabulary. Besides that, it's perfect. The production value is incredible. Keep up the awesome work
'When did your family move to Rome?'
_'Like, 50 years ago..'_
'Ohh....'
Thank you very much for your vids. I love Roman history, but it is sometimes hard to understand how something came to pass without reading 2 tons of volumes and you make everything much more clear. Again, thang you for a very well done job.
And I thought the electorial college of the US was needlessly complicated...
its not really complicated. each state has its own election, and its winner counts as votes equal to the state's congressional representation
what about districts?
Complicated? Naaaw. Obsolescent and counter-productive to a fair and Democratic society? MMMMMMHMMMMM.
People say that the electoral college is confusing. It’s the congressional districts that make it confusing, and sometimes have people elected who didn’t get a national majority.
Good ol Jerrymandering (jarymandering?) I believe there’s this district, in Illinois maybe, that is so obviously biased, where it looks like a pair of wings connected my a few-mile long path on a highway.
Fuzzy Dunlop Not really, considering US is a federation of states and not a unified country. The Voting system obviously must reflect that, otherwise you'd get total imperialism of the few states with large population centers at the expense of the underdeveloped states, which in turn would maintain that imbalance ad infinitum, making China-like overpopulation a viable political tactic for each state wishing for political power.
I've always wondered, did they have a junior first class vote first before anyone else as a demonstration of how voting works and to make sure everyone was following procedure? A sort of test run so to speak to troubleshoot any problems that may arise?
So it's pretty much like the "first past the post" voting system, just that the rich and powerful get the biggest impact on the vote. Great video!
It's fptp with a lot of added steps to give all the power to the richest ~1%
@@Septimus_ii but hey at least they don't try to hide that fact
Just when I thought the electoral college was the worst voting system in human history
- All roads lead to Rome, or so they say. Not the A57. I drove along it the other day and ended up in Worksop.
Tribes in the original use was basically a congressional district. The romans at first had three tribes (the word means tri- bhue, 'three places'). They kept expanding it (just like the US did with the electoral college) until they got to 35, then they stopped increasing the number and geographically expanded the tribes (sort of like modern Gerrymandering). One big thing that should be mentioned is that the voting system was integrally tied to the miltiary system. Each voting class was a different position in the military. Patricians=senior officers, who had to be rich because they could be charged to pay for irregularities in the defense budget. Equites were the cavalry (hence our word Equestrian). They had to buy their own horses and feed them, very expensive. The first class were the triarri, infantry that wore expensive heavy armor. The second class were the Principes, infantry with slightly cheaper armor. Third class were hastati, infantry with still cheaper armor, fourth were velites, light/poor infantry without any armor who skirmished with arrows and javelins and performed minor functions for the army. The proles who had no property could not serve in the army (which also is why there was never a rebellion of pissed off poor people, they were not armed and had no military experience). Everyone in the army had to pay for their own weapons, armor, aimals, even 10 days of rations when they were first called up (the military started to feed you after 10 days, by then you would be 200 miles from Rome and your general would have coordinated food from an allied town). The army wasn't paid at first but their compensation was captured property from the enemy they were fighting. This is all from Polybius writing about the Roman Republican army around 260 BC. The Marian reforms of 100 BC significantly changed this system.
this makes sense. thank you
These are my favourite videos on TH-cam by far!
"I can't help but think that if the poor hadn't felt muzzled in the Assembly of the Centuries and the Tribal Assembly, they wouldn't have felt it necessary to stack the one office they had control over with dangerous men."
Does this remind you of something?
Historia Civilis sneaking in some current political commentary. Had to be intentional.
Aye. Let's burn this fucker down. It's the people in power with the most to lose, us peasants are made of sterner stuff.
Not really, no. Trying to compare American politics in any fashion to this is folly. Context matters, and the context in the modern day is radically different from ancient Rome.
An expansionist republic (which always claims to be defending itself) centralizes governmental power over time, particularly after a period of civil war, eventually giving an unreasonable amount of power to one office. Social tension due to institutionalized economic disparity is used by dangerous populists to get elected.
Roman republic survived half millenia while being constantly at war.
It was a good system. This SJW bullcrap would eliminate Rome much sooner.
I keep getting all of your videos recommended, plllleaase post another soon
Ah feels right at home.
I'm American.
Ibney00
THERE'S A MILLION THINGS I HAVENT DONE
America's system is so much better though.
@@kekero540 because it had time to look back at this and try to perfect it.
The American system was built from the Roman one. The founders all had classical educations, and knew how the Republic ultimately failed. They truly viewed what they were doing as an experiment, as many if not most people in the world at the time did not believe Democracy could work. They struggled to balance the power into co-equal branches, wrote moderately clear rules that prevented the worst shenanigans of Rome's politics, even built in a system to amend those rules but required a super majority so the system would not swing wildly and become unstable. They even had the sense to separate it away from religion. Limited the influence of the military, and basically did all they could imagine to prevent demagoguery from creating an American dictator.
It has only failed once in two and a half centuries, over slavery, which required violence to change. It seems pretty solid.
@@kekero540Yeah, but watch the democratic party, the Elites cast their vote First, and do not Matter what the people says after a "Presumptive Nominee" is Elected,
I just can't stop watching the videos! One video after another. Please, keep doing them
The first new video you've posted since I subbed
Feels good to see you in my notifications good sir.
Yay! A New Historia Civilis video! Now this is a treat!
It reminds me of the caucus systems still used during American primaries. Exclusionary, a little too easy to manipulate, and favoring those with the leisure time to participate.
Thank you for this level of detail. I have a fairly good general knowledge of late Republican/early Imperial Rome, and I was vaguely aware there were voting blocs, but have never seen an explanation this good.
3:33 Huh so that's from where ''Proletarii'' in ''Proletarii Vsekh, Stran Soeidinyaetes'' comes from...
Finally another video I've been waiting for this since forever.
even though it wasn't a battle and that's primarily what I like this actually is probably my favorite video now from you because this is one of those things that neither Astorian for a textbook could teach me that well but you put it in very simple terms that I can understand
*+Digital Diogenes* Nice, this is why I read the comments! Heading over there now.
Digital Diogenes you sir hust got 1 new subscriber
That's six since this time yesterday-including me. Keep growing like this, *+Digital Diogenes*, your channel definitely deserves it!
More videos plz... ur the only worthwhile thing to watch on youtube...
OMG! It's almost enough to make someone like the electoral college.
At 9:14 my eyes were playing tricks, I saw black circles between the squares. :o
Hey man, if you are going to use colors. Could you pick colors that colorblind people can distinguish them?
I am colorblind and I have no problems with this video, what do you mean?
I can't see the difference between the green votes and the orange votes
Ohh, okay. I actually can't see a single colour, so it's different kind of color blindness with me. I hope he sees your comment and changes that since more people liked it. Though he probably only responds to emails.
I still liked it though
MrSnepsnep Yeah I suggest you email him.
@13:31. The elective body box is wrong. Should be Plebeian Assembly, since that is what your talking about at that point.
Learning a lot! Thank you.
So thankful for your content! I am a law student, and I intrigued my roman law professor with stuff i learned here!
I loved how the music reflected how tedious the whole thing was.
If I was a Roman proletarian, I'd certainly vote for an "extremist". Pedicabo patricii!
I'm so happy you're still making videos, one of the best channels on youtube!
wuhu new vid, this day should be public holiday.
I was talking on reddit about this channel earlier and I looked onto youtube because I have nothing to do. And guess what? A new video!
I’m an American political science student, and hearing the ending remarks of this video made me shiver.
I love these videos. One of the only places to quench my thirst for knowledge about the Roman republic.
That last bit is such a good analogy for what happened in the United States. If the poor hadn't felt muzzled in congress (because 90% of the time the person with the most money in congressional races wins, and 0% of legislation is based off of what the people say they want) they might not have elected someone so insane and dangerous to the office they felt they had control over, who said he would improved their lives.
Considering that this video was uploaded just a week before Trump's inauguration, I can definitely imagine this is what he was alluding to by making the extremism comment.
AT LAST! ALMOST A MONTH IN WAITING! WAY TO GO BROTHER!
When you read Imperium by Robert Harris and are like "yeah I know dis shit" :-) great video btw
This is my favorite educational content on the internet.
Im not the only one who misread the title as "Roman Erections" right?
You sad little boy.
Dope series, been watching for hours chronologically.
This is actually not that bad of a system. Compare it to some of the voting systems that CGP Grey discusses.
it's gerrymander and unrepresentative. It's not comparable to CGP Grey's suggestion because they were all based on direct elections, not sublocks counting as a single block. It also has no trasnative system for the voting so doesn't even perform the base concept of the STV.
So informative. Immediately become a fan.
Okay, NOW I can see why you didn't want to go over elections...
Sorry for putting you through the immense tedium to talk about this. Great video though!
Your videos are freaking cool. Binge watching them during free time.
"Patricians were the most notable families, not necessarily the richest, but the ones who had a history of great public service".
This is where nations get it wrong now. Money rules and only money.
I look forward to these videos so much. Thank you for the amazing videos.
You can see some elements of the Electoral College in this system, although in modern days everyone gets into the individual voting blocks, and are forced to vote together based on the majority of the state.
one of the most interresting videos i have ever seen on youtube!
So basically your final point is that when the government intentionally neglects a majority demographic of people from being represented, they vote in crazy hard liners? Does anyone think that relates to current politics?
keep em coming man. favorite channel right here.
Will you ever do things on the late Roman Empire? Or do you know any channels that do? Always wanted to learn more about it
shinderbinderful Excellent suggestion!
shinderbinderful try entering Cassius Dio on youtube.
I just imagine someone explaining this to a young Julius Caesar and him just throwing his hands up and going "Fuck that noise, Imma take this bitch over."
Ah politics, confusing since 200BC!
Please don't ever stop making videos
“I am going to build a wall and make the Picts pay for it” - Hadrian probably
Let's just hope Pompey don't get mad with power during one of these assemblies
How did such a convoluted bureaucratic turd of a system come to be?
it was slowly cobbled together as rome grew. patricians get the top spot because they are the original romans, expanding from there. add in the social war and the threat of a pleb exodus and you get the different assemblies. the quirks were negotiated to trade and secure political power
victoneter Most republics form over time, the structure that Historia talks about is usually how it had come to be in the mid-to-late republic. Remember the Roman Republic lasted for nearly half a millennia, and in that time they created a plethora of new offices, rules, and institutions to perpetuate their power. You literally can see the plebeians push back in the early republic, but they didn't do so well adapting to the changes in wealth dynamics and military reforms which led to their ultimate fall
It's a republic, bureaucracies go well with republics. And while it was a turd, it was a special turd.
From what I understand, there wasn't much of a public workers class in Republican Rome. Politics were mixed with administration and military office.
Chris Read As much as I dislike the electoral collage I'd rather have that than a direct popular vote. I don't having 3/4 states decide every election.
That is a lot of bureaucracy for just paper and Roman numerals. I feel sorry for the guys who had to handle that
I was looking forward to finding out about roman erections. But apparently i read the title wrong.
Oh you're looking for the etruscans
You must've not heard of my friend Bigus Dickus
finally you uploaded another video!!!!!! thank you!!!!!
For all those pissed about the electoral college... Watch this video.
Throwin shade at the end there, nice.
Oh someone accidentally hit the dislike button!
May Jupiter smite them!
It probably was Bibulus
@@jmiquelmb nah, Brutus, but he was an honorable man
This is similar to airline an boarding schedule.
Next time there is an electoral collage complaint by someone from US people should watch video for worst case scenario for what passes as democracy (at least to some). Not that the electoral collage is great but this is what 1% ruling really looks like.
Give it a little time. Trump is gonna make some yuuuge changes. He has some tremendous ideas. People tell him he has the best ideas.
Sara Samaletdin well that's why we study history right? To learn from mistakes in the past, doesn't mean we can still learn in terms of politics
Rome was a republic. the USA is a republic. true democracy is a pipe-dream that only works in city-states.
If you stop to think about it, the idea here is clearly to prevent the vote going entirely to uneducated farmers who live in the sticks and know nothing of political goings-on, which, isn't a problem now, but back then, there was no newspapers or anything like that. also, Roman education was based on tutoring, or later on, paid academies, therefore, the lower in class you are, the dumber and less aware of current events you are. sure, there's word of mouth, but do you want voting to be done based on the world's largest game of 'telephone'? The idea of all of this is to put power in the hands of the best educated and best connected. and, for the most part, it worked out pretty well.
LOL, you know there's a difference between representative democracy and the electoral collage right?
Nope, that's not right. The Electoral College makes only swing states matter. You're a democrat in rural Texas? Good luck, your vote is worth shit.. Republican in Northern California? Good luck for you too. It's an archaic system that has no use in modern politics.
a Historia Civilis video? I've been waiting forever
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THAT'S FUCKING COMPLICATED
It really doesn't matter which block votes first if the threshold is absolute majority.