On Worldbuilding: How do Empires Work? [ Fire Nation l Roman l Mongols ] PART 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2018
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CGP GREY video "Rules for Rulers" • The Rules for Rulers
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![On Worldbuilding: The Rise of an Empire? [ Romans l Fire Nation l Napoleon ] PART 2](/img/tr.png)
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Hello Future Me What is you favorite empire on fiction or on real life
was that age of empires? also three tc's will do if you castle rush them while your ennemy is booming.
Hello Future Me Rome, the Valaryian Empire or Galbatorix’s Empire from the Inheritance Cycle would have to be my favorites
Can you make a video about state cities ??
I find interest Ing the era of athens and sparta for example
My favorite is the Aztec Empire, I find their culture incredibly fascinating and how they had to solve problem after problem to build themselves up into the largest power in Central America
- There's no stable surface to build homes in a swamp so we'll plunge long rods into the ground and build on top of those!
-There's not enough land to grow crops so we will build rafts and plant food on top of them!
nah, this is too complicated. i'l go back to writing big guys in black spiky armor whipping peasants for not paying the the new tax.
no... you need more superweapons! you know, the ones that kill billions and fuel rebellions!
Don’t forget the love triangle
Sometimes even that makes for a compelling story
@@mc_ace8075 my sister is watching Twilight next to me. VAMPIRE, HUMAN AND DOG THAT HATES SILVER BULLETS
@@mc_ace8075 hey there Terrible Writing Advice xD
"Spanning across planets or galaxies, or whole continents."
Wow, not just planets, not just galaxies, but ENTIRE CONTINENTS. These are some big empires.
Have you see the comparison of Pluto and Russia? I know which one I'd rather rule as an evil emperor!
Sarah Kemp Russia has gulag, but Pluto has heart
@@marshmallowallen5677 Viva La Pluto!
@@sarahkemp9080 Pluto 🤩
@@marshmallowallen5677 Russia doesn't have gulag for like 60 years already. Probably Pluto stole it((( 😭
'wyh do you guys support the empire?' -'we like the uniforms and the dramatic music which plays out of no where once in a while. '
9:53 In the novel for A New Hope, Luke and his friends are shown to be considering joining the army. The reason for doing this, despite the fact that the Empire is already shown to be a bit evil or at least antagonistic at this point, is that they otherwise wouldn't have access to any higher (think: college) education, if I remember correctly.
So in short, the Empire gets its soldiers the same way the US does. Fun stuff!
@@samrevlej9331 to show that a system works, both in fiction and in reality.
@@samrevlej9331 only one of them had cool deadly laser moon
@@GrayFoxHound9 Not if Regan had gotten his way
George Lucas has gone on record as basically saying that the Empire is the US and the rebels are the Vietcong. So that makes sense.
@@kylekybot2130 I came here to say this; I see I was beaten.
he who controls the spice controls the universe.
Nice reference to Dune.
The most important thing that happens in Dune is the end of the spice monopoly and that's amazing
The spice must flow.
Only because the idiots stopped building computers. I want a spin off where they get invaded by renegade forces from outside the empire that have actual sensible technology.
*cue Scanlan Shorthalt walking by whispering* "Spice? Spice? Do you spice? Any spice?"
Hello future me: people don’t like being enslaved
Cliche evil empire: whaaaaaaat
uh oh, you made the wrong sucker a vassal,
it's time to pay for the people that you hassle,
And you can keep ruling that province with impunity
unless a chosen one arises in which case he'll blow up this fake unity
@@digital_logik :D
I find the Inca empire very fascinating and often overlooked, what I like the most about them is the very sofisticated administrative system for everything going to resources distribution to messaging, and the fact than they really tried to assimilate as full citizens the conquered cultures into the empire rather than enslaving them. I often like to think than they were trying to civilize south America as the Romans did with Europe.
They're also notable as the only major historical empire that expanded its territory on a north south axis as opposed to an east west one.
@@katmannsson I'm not sure that's true. It's a matter of geography and resources. It made sense for the Incans, and they're one of the most notable example, but you could also say the Egyptian Empire, the early Roman Republic, the Saadi Sultanate in Morocco, many of the European empires in Africa (including the British, French and Portuguese), multiple South East Asian empires.
@@antiochus87 true I was just gonna mention Egypt. Also did the Inca use animals or did they just do everything on foot because that’s also super impressive
@@schnoz2372 On foot, have you ever tried to ride a lama, its not fun
And they did it through communism.
My favorite historical empire was the Roman Empire. I’d like to mention that in addition to roads, they also used the Mediterranean for trade, travel, and communication as well.
I think the Cyrus Persian empire beats them
@@jmadmaxx7295 Or the Incan Empire, in my opinion at least
@@10gamer64 I can see that
Tribe better
the romans were interesting as fuck
"if you haven't researched husbandry..." those poor aztecs never stood a chance.
f
F
F
*F*
Nahuatl, Aztec is a fake name
@@yourethatmantis5178 nah, not all nahuatl were members of the civilization we know as the Aztecs, and the word Aztec has a meaning most people can easily understand
"The Dark lord evil empire shall last an eternity!!'
"WHY?"
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHY?!"
You get a like just for that.
"I mean, if the Dark Lord just came to power now, then it's plasuable someone else will do the same to him."
"Are you threatening to rebel?"
"No! I just wanted a job finding those people!"
And that's how you get the job of Minister of Internal Affairs for the Dark Lord, which is about as safe as your gonna get.
I am happy to be your 500th like.
I am happy to be your 530th like.
24:40 This was my biggest issue with the new Star Wars movies. My impression was that the First Order was smaller than the former Empire and had to rely on asymmetric advantages like Starkiller Base, the equivalent of ISIS getting its hands on nukes. Th
Th
Th
Th
Th
Th
You are a saint, I'm working on worldbuilding a war on an alien planet and this is extremely helpful to help me work through how one particular country rose to so much power in the first place. Thank youuuu
i know its been 4 years but how's your project so far?
It's been 4 years, but I'm genuinely curious whether or not you ever finished your story (or if you were writing a campaign for a TTRPG, how that turned out).
Those Age of Empires references were just perfect.
5 tc's is overrated. three in the centre and one periferal will do most of the time.
but tim's a slow boomer I guess.
Alan Witman Ikr! :)
wololooo
Which Aoe game is that?
AoE II
”Planets, galaxies and even continets”
*whole continents.
Ya pls don’t even show the math of how disproportionate a continent and a galaxy are 😂
"Never fight a land war in Asia."
A galaxy fits into Africa
To be fair a continent in a fantasy genre normally has more diverse terrain than a planet in a Science Fiction series.
The Mexica empire, Tenochtitlan, now Mexico city. The flower wars were a very interesting series of organized battles(like a sport in a way) to capture neighboring tribes warriors for sacrifice. The more you captured the higher in rank you rose allowing you to wear more extravagant clothing. They had potchtecas, who were merchants who would travel long distances bringing precious objects to other tribes. They had roads with messengers at checkpoints (kinda like a baton race ) who would sprint to the next checkpoint and pass on information. It's one of the most underrepresented cultures of history and honestly one of the most interesting! Hence why I'm making the first Mexican fantasy universe with The Legend of Polloman my graphic novel series.
nice let me know if and when you complete it
I am also trying to creat an Aztec/Mayan based culture in a fantasy world. I was inspired by a novelist from my country, Argentina that created a Thrillogy where the main continent was based in South America. I read the first book and thought that it was a great idea. Wish you good luck with your project, mate.
I felt like Dragon Prince was alright as Callum's first instinct was to run from the scary elf assassin, and didn't really change his tune until she explained to him why they were there, at which point he's given a crisis of faith between his romantic interest being the "good guy with a gun" in the room and Rayla, who he realizes to be misunderstood.
"Plants, Galaxies, or WHOLE CONTINENTS!" I feel like you did the wrong order there haha.
continents of galaxy bro
Plants?
@@mariano98ify, they call that Cluster mate
Its a trope called "Arson, Murder and Jaywalking" in other words, Big, Bigger, smaller :)
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJayWalking
"No flag no country" Ah yes, the establishment of empires through the cunning use of flags, as devised by the british empire :P
I was not expecting an Eddie Izzard reference here but I was happy to hear it :D
Loved the Eddie Izzard reference. Made my day
Wasn't just Britain. It was a common agreement of the time
Honestly, as soon as that was said, I knew I was properly hooked.
All hail Dark Lord Eddie Izzard!
The incan empire is one of the most fascinating and unique. Inhabiting almost solely mountains and one of the only ancient empires to be vertical rather than horizontal, it has a number of unique problems and solutions
This is why I'm so impressed by the Incan Empire. They did so much of this without a written language and without horses, oxen, or steel!
Or the wheel!
They had a "written" form of communication through a system of weaving and knots, but Spaniards eradicated the know-how of it.
@@Hjernespreng Or, more likely, it eroded over time because it was made of extremely biodegradable material, and was replaced with a more efficient system.
@supremecaffeine2633
Found the colonist
@@gingermcgingin4106 thank the heavens for cultures smart and successful enough to even consider go colonising.
The Assyrians caught my attention in my early undergrad history classes. Despite being active for a relatively insignificant period of time, their military might and terrifying propaganda fascinated me. Not to mention, they were basically the embodiment of "the best defense is a good offense." Are your enemies pressing in on every side? Conquer them! Are there now more enemies pressing in on every side? Conquer them! Is the home city no longer under the direct threat of anyone because your buffer states are massive? Why stop when you can CONQUER EVERYONE. Just some good, old-fashioned "my chariots are cooler than your chariots" warfare and sieges upon your fellow city-states. And if that doesn't sell them, check out their artwork. They carved reliefs directly into the walls of their buildings and cities. I don't know about you, but when's the last time your evil empire fave carved a horse into a wall?
Diana Snellgrove carved themselves committing war crimes on walls*
They were pretty badass.
Machiavelli references this by saying, (paraphrased,) war is not something to be avoided; only delayed at the advantage of your opponent. (The thought being that they will make war upon you when they are ready.)
Reminds me of the Russian Empire
Their capital (Ninevah) is even called "the worst city in the world" in the Bible..
The coolest thing about the Assyrians is that they still exist today as a distinct ethnic group.
There is one thing about empires that i've found remains VERY consistent:
Grow too big, too fast, and you fail. Most of those empires that gained massive territory and a short time fell not long after. Look at the Mongols: They took *everything.* And then they collapsed. Meanwhile, look at Rome, which survived over two thousands years. Early Roman history is a NOTORIOUSLY slow burn.
Byzantium is Rome.
Change my mind.
3.14 Dragon it is Rome just under a recently modern term of Byzantine, back then they considered themselves Roman through and through
I'm aware. Like I said, Byzantium *is* Rome.
3.14 Dragon finally I’ve met someone with common sense and knowledge on this topic thank you 🙏 check Roman.military.history on insta if you have it
Well, the Mongol Empire split in four mainly because of succession. When Genghis Khan died, the empire ended up split between four of his potential successors.
Why the Dai Lee siding with Azula is so satisfying
I’m working on an empire based a bit on the early Portuguese Empire in that “it’s pretty much just forts on coasts” kind of way. They rule the Known Sea pretty much just by facilitating trade. It’s also like, 10 years old, so it’s got that new empire energy
That's how one of my empires works. It's kind of a combination of the Portuguese factory system and the British system.
The British Empire is actually pretty fascinating. It’s about as morally ambiguous as any empire in history, and it had unique solutions for economic, cultural, and political problems, all on a scale hitherto unknown to human history. So many people were affected by the efforts of British empire-building, easily over half the people on this planet, that it’s honestly hard to look back on it objectively. But it’s clear they had a profound effect on the world order, and humanity wouldn’t be the same without it.
EDIT: For better or for worse.
Rule Britannia
Funny thing is, the British Empire at times acquired colonies it didn't even want.
New Zealand, the country I currently live in, had British people living here, but the British Crown, for a large chunk of the 19th century, didn't actually want New Zealand. Only after the local settlers became plentiful enough, and nagged the Crown often enough did the Crown sort of half-heartedly accept New Zealand into the Empire. And even when NZ was included into the Empire, whenever stuff happened in New Zealand, and one faction or another asked for help, the Crown would just go "We acknowledge you have problems, but deal with it yourself". It's only during World War I, and possibly the Boer Wars that Britain started treating New Zealand as a colony, or foreign territory proper. Only for, from WWII onwards, New Zealand becoming more and more detached from Great Britain =P.
@wιѕegυy Totally agree with you. I've done some research, and the British empire treated the people they conquered like shit. India? The British people had fifty times the average salary. South Africa? They used concentration camps during the Boer war. China? Sold opiods to make them economically reliant on the British. Not to mention the famines that killed over forty million people.
I'd like to study the British Empire more fully. My knowledge comes mostly from an American perspective which only addresses the early part. It is interesting that a large faction of Americans sought to replicate the British Empire in America after the Revolution.
wιѕegυy you complain about complexity then generalize all the European colonies.
You funny. You can’t just go to the other extreme and expect it to be correct or just. But I bet you feel full of western pride by standing up for these poor oppressed peoples.
3:36 "As feminine plague struck..." xD
Lux Verita lmao he said famine and plague
Of course I know that - I heard the other when watching the video for the first time though. "Famine" really needs a clearer "a" vowel, like "cat", to sound right.
Ghostwritten by Stephan Molyneux?
That's what both my wife and I heard too :D
I mean most plague bacteria looks pretty darn curvy so....
15:30
The more I watch the news, the more I realize that strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is actually a good system of government.
Also, Excalibur didn’t grant him legitimacy- it replaced the sword of the stone, which did. One of the many reasons Excalibur is superior to Holy Grail, as well as showing many answers to the questions posed in this video.
Came to learn how to write. Left with a master plan on how to seize power and create my new empire.
The world can thank “Hello Future Me”!
The Covenant is such a great empire because it's almost entirely maintained through their religion. And ones their religion turns out to be fake, the whole empire breaks apart (within every class/species) and collapses.
And the fact the Prophets ordered the genocide of their military leaders shortly before their "transcendence".
@@huntergraham702 it’s a militaristic religion and empire, and the prophets do this to remove a threat to their religious legitimacy, so it’s actually a great example of an imperial misstep that led to its downfall. They alienated one of their greatest military assets due to a lack of trust and political/religious motivations to maintain power, and it comes back to bite them
People forget that past empires didnt just conquer and enslave everybody
Rome especially use to enslave a population but after a certain time they began to add them to there ranks and finally make them bolive that they are Roman dosent matter what race or nation you where you are Roman
That way people kept paying taxes and a revolt was harder to implement, becouse why would you go to war against "your" Empire
You are not going to revolt if you have the same rights as any other person in the Empire
Kael 93 make an empire like Rome, the state lasts 2000 years, greatest military in the world for centuries, amazing leaders like Caesar, Aurelian, Justinian, Vespasian, Trajan etc. and one that contains dozens of religions and ethnicities making it diverse and unique
When Justinian tried to bring back the roman empire it was better welcomed in Africa than in Italy, so yes the Roman's did have reasons not to live in the empire. Even if you feel part of a empire you can revolt against it, people are egoistic and having the same rights is not always satisfactory. I cannot think of any empire which didn't have uprisings. For example, empires are big, that means they have more land to defend and therefore they must have a powerful military and they will probably be mostly at war, because everyone wants to bring down the strongest. Some empires fall because of their own weight and others because of invasion but more often is a mixture of both. So yeah there's a pretty reasonable argument to become independent even if you feel part of the empire.
alejandro ojeda sure but you can only adjust to the world, you can’t alter it. Especially if that world is Rome 🤣 but on the other hand you did bring up excellent points but I suggest going to Invicta History here on TH-cam for more on the Romans
@@obiwankenobi6871 I'll look it up. And yes for many time rome made the rules and you accepted them or died. My favorite example is the king of pergamon who literally gave his kingdom to Rome to avoid being invaded by them. Yes, sure there was that all mighty Rome but when it fell Justinian had to admit that not everyone thought of the empire as glorious. By the end rome had so many problems, a decentralized economy, armies made out of basically everything but Roman's, an increadible amount of political inestability, more and more barbarians within its borders, the collapse of the slave trade... Rome wasn't so magnificent back then.
It's worth pointing out that while there are several schools of thought on the matter, it's a dubious prospect at best to determine the exact point in history when Rome "fell"... Sure, there's a consensus (there is about almost everything)... BUT Rome didn't just "pffft" out of existence. It came apart at the seams, more like a quilt that "comes undone" and in-turn is used as two "lap-blankets" and later three or four "baby blankets"...
In essence as Rome "came apart" it wasn't so much an instant collapse into chaos and bloody warfare, though there was plenty of conflict over the years no doubt... It became a larger and larger collection of smaller and smaller empires and countries and splintered factions over time... eventually losing the whole Roman Identity in parts and wholes until we see other governmental institutions rising and falling in its wake... AND much of the original Roman influences are still very present today... only just under the "surface value" of so much of otherwise "European" machinations. ;o)
"For the grace, for the might of our lord
For the home of the holy
For the faith, for the way of the sword
Gave their lives so boldly"
Hey Tim, it's awesome to see someone I once studied politics with putting that education to good use. Congrats on the success of the channel and all the great content you've made, including this video especially. It's interesting to hear your take on fictional empires and how they compare with historical ones, as well as areas that the concept is under-developed in fiction. I'm looking forward to watching part 2
BOUT TIME 40k gets mentioned!!!
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
BRING IT UP MORE!!!
THE EMPEROR PROTECTS
> Finish video
> Tim uploads
> *HAIL MISHKA*
I have to be honest. I stumbled on these videos by accident, but they're definitely helping with my writing for a few short stories I've done for classes. This has to be one of the most helpful channels I've subscribed to in the last 5 years.
The Ottoman Empire is my favorite empire. Its journey from being a small Beylik to become one of the most powerful Empire in human history encompassing three different continents before going on a decline under a single continuous dynasty is amazing. I can also pretty much say that the Ottoman Empire is one of the most accurate example of an Empire, being a massive heterogenous political entity ruled by a single dynasty for hundreds of years. Unlike their contemporaries, the Ottoman Empire are also incredibly tolerant for their time with high level of social mobility. A slave in the Ottoman Empire can become the Empire's Grand Vizier. You don't see that often in other empires.
Honestly, the Mongols are my favorite historical empire because while they didn’t last long, they created the largest land empire in history in less than a century, and were one of the most open-minded “barbaric” cultures ever. Genghis Khan, despite being widely demonized in his own time as little more than a monstrous barbarian warlord, invited scholars and bureaucrats from across all his conquered territories to a centralized location so they could work out how best to unify the empire and start developing a proper infrastructure.
One tale tells of how a scholar who was visiting with the Mongols was brought before Genghis because the Khan was looking for immortality; when questioned, despite being in the same room as the most dangerous man on the planet, the terrified scholar said that he knew of no way of achieving immortality, and anyone who claimed to have one was probably lying. Instead of having the scholar killed for being useless, the “barbarian emperor” thanked the scholar for his honesty and for being brave enough to stand by his own beliefs, and sent him on his way with a gift of gold.
And let’s not forget the saying from the period that said a lone woman could walk from one end of the empire to the other with a gold plate on her head and never once be attacked, because the Mongol military was so effective at stopping bandits and curbing crime.
If Genghis hadn’t had so many sons and grandsons to squabble over the empire after he died, I’d argue that it could easily have become a highly advanced and stable Empire, better even than Rome, and would likely still exist today.
I don't think so. The mongol empire had a really big problem they were too few to control an empire so vast. The control over their territory was largely due to their horse archers but there's the catch. By the end of the Mongol empire their enemies had learned to fight them effectively. Within a few decades more the empire would have found their military obsolete and the common military unfit for an empire that big. Thus the way to go was decentralizing the empire just as they did. The yuan (I think it was the yuan) dinasty was eventually overthrown because the Mongols wanted to maintain the power with their few numbers thus isolating the Chinese inmense majority. Then uprising and new dinasty. The golden horde was finally beaten by their former vassals Russia. In Iran they didn't really form an empire as much as another dinasty. In other words the Mongols failed at something which was integral to them. They were so few that they weren't able to impose a huge amount of control over their territory. They became part of the conquered areas merging with the people and thus the empire was lost by sheer lack of numbers. They could have conquered the world but definitely they couldn't rule it.
alejandro ojeda Trust me, I’m well aware of how and why the Mongols fell. That doesn’t change the fact that hey managed to beat the shit out of pretty much every society that stood in their way, even with so few numbers. In that sense, you pointing out how few of them there were is more a credit to them than anything else. Also, I never said the Mongols were the best empire. Anyone with half a brain can see that Rome did a better job overall with ruling its territory. I’m just saying that the Mongols are my favorite empire, for what they were capable of and what they attempted to do with their power.
I highly doubt it would still exist today mostly because it's unlikely it would press past the holy Roman empire and Britian where horse back warfare becomes harder not to mention they were only so good cause of Genghis's reforms which slowly began to diminish after his demise. And since they couldn't conquer japan either at some point they'd be attacked on the western and eastern fronts nearly at the same time and just like Rome who faced against Parthinians and barbarians there fall would begin. Even if they politically stabilized all that territory is just impossible to manage when the people left to conquer all have immensely powerful militaries. And whose to say they don't form alliances seeing a great enemy to battle.
@@natetso3307 so don't say what you don't think,because yo clearly stated that if it was not because of the numerous offspring of gengis khan the empire would have solidified,a conclusion I'm strongly against. The Mongols were amazing and they're one of the empires I admire the most,but that doesn't justify your last part of the first commentary.
alejandro ojeda Fair enough
So... Essentially the EU is a decentralized trade empire? Interesting food for thoughts. (Also perhaps a good real world example for a commerce heavy empire?)
+Hammas Haukka While not always true, generally, the central power handles external affairs while the decentralized local powers handle internal affairs of their region. I'm not European and I don't know all the intricacies of the EU, but I'm pretty sure countries within the EU still engage in their own external affairs, correct?
To an extend, but stuff like trade agreements are done through the EU.
They went for that late game economy victory.
@@pedroleal1375 and the daemons will pay for it
EU could be considered a confederation mostly established for economical progress.
Personally, I think the reason that Callum and Ezran didn't hate the elves is because they were raised by King Harrow, a man who knew that no side was all good or all bad.
Since I'm planning to establish my own Empire in the Future this Video was really useful to me.
Thanks for that
It's not historical, but I find the Nilfgaardian Empire from the Witcher books/games to be extremely fascinating.
It's very strongly based on the Holy Roman Empire (Germans) of our own history. There are a lot of cultural parallels and representations in that game
Love it aswell
Roman Empire but instead of latin they speak elvish
@@matthewtaylor6829 But the Blacks are heavily centralised and oppresively assimilative, while the Unholy German Nonempire I believe was as decentralised as it gets and highly diverse.
I also would like to add that the Witcher world works more like a satire of the real world (dry satire, Polish style, so might go over your heads) than a comprehensive world build like Tolkien would build it. I wouldn't use Witcher as an example.
@@Halo_Legend hey, be nice to the hre, poor thing already gets hated on for being itself
Great video. I think a brilliant example of a fictional Empire working well is in A Song Of Ice and Fire with Aegon Targaryen’s conquest of the seven kingdoms. It’s often said in the books that Aegon and his sisters conquered Westeros with dragons. And their dragons and the power they held did play a huge part in allowing the conquest to be successful. They were used to control battlefields and scout ahead, to intimidate and destroy enemy castles and fleets. But there was more to it than that. Aegon and his family were foreigners from Valyria but he used Westerosi traditions like heraldry and was anointed by the leader of Westerosi religion to show that he wouldn’t rule as a foreign overlord but a Westerosi King. Further he didn’t simply destroy all of his enemies with dragon fire. He always offered mercy and peace. He allowed his defeated foes to keep their old lands and titles as long as they bent the knee and swore fealty. He helped establish trade between the different kingdoms allowing for a better sharing of resources so food could be transported from areas where it was more abundant like the Reach to where it was scarcer like the North which during the long winters was especially important. Aegon brought fire and blood to Westeros but afterwards he gave them peace, prosperity and justice.
Yes, but the Targaryens didn't built an empire...they built a kingdom. At the end they transformed a lot of tiny kingdoms into a single kingdom with somewhat unified culture and lenguage (with the exceptions of the North and Dorne.)
I think an empire still implies different cultures, ethnicities and regions unified under a single goverment.
The freehold on another hand, did have an empire.
@@Whosaskin Well that perfectly describes westeros so long as you consider Northerners, Southerners, and Dornish to be different ethnicities.
No, the Southerners aren't predominantly Andals. Otherwise the old houses in Westeros like Gardener, Lannister, Durrandon, Dayne, Hightower, Merryweather, Tully, Blackwood, Bracken, Tarth etc. wouldn't have stayed in power. The Andals most likely were just very effective in converting the smallfolk of Westeros to the faith of The Seven, while their own ranks got thinned out by the constant wars they thought until then. We know, that the old rulers of Westros back then married Andal women for a time and that usually only less powerful houses claim to be descending from Andals.
And while there are still Valyrians left, the Targaryens are the only Dragon Lords (high nobility) that survived, as far as we know.
In ancient times the title emperor was that of Great King or King of Kings. The Targaryans were the King of Kings aka the kings of Seven Kingdoms.
I think GRR Martin estimated that the entirety of Westeros could be in the ballpark of 3000x1500 miles so a medieval realm in the size range of the USA or the entirety of Europe.
That constitutes an empire
Edo Period aka Tokugawa Shogunate in Japan is the most fascinating empire for me. Influences me to write a lot of empires. The amount of control and sometimes lack of control that Edo had is fascinating to me as a historian.
Sauron was really effective in this. He controlled the powerful agricultural center around Lake Nuln, convinced many of the Easterling Factions through extensive propaganda against the West, and personally had an army of orcs that was loyal to just him. I say his empire is pretty effective.
Ironically, Shadow of Mordor was only one to had this. Like there are dark and desolate wasteland, but many areas have green and fertile areas with many missions involved liberating prison wagons, which implied that many of the prisoners would be put to work on plantations.
You should definitely get Blue in on this one ;)
Or you know get him to do an additional 'how are empires hystorically maintained' video or something.
Yes! I'd love to see another HFM/OSP collaboration!
I second that!
Or third that. Whatever. Point is, I'm in
Yes please
Mh... Have to admit, blue is entertaining to watch but a bit dodgy on the historical details. He rarely delves into *why* something happens and more focused on what has happened. And because he deals a lot with periods of time and details that are incredibly vague, speculative and up to interpretation/translation (and the fact that he is a human being with limited tine and resources) he often has to craft a narrative that is not entirely correct. Now don't get me wrong, that has a placeand can be interesting. But for instances where the interest is in the inner workings of a particular system I prefer the HFM approach because it is a more useful tool.
Since I believe the goal is also a bit different, the two styles don't really match all that particularly well.
I'm with you, the roman empire is something I've always found super interesting, honestly empire's across the board are usually my favorite systems to look into. It interesting to observe how culture spreads, through force and otherwise
the fact that you referenced a Larry Niven novel does my heart so much good...
It also proves that youre not just a nerd, youre a hyper nerd.
And you referenced warhammer? You hyper nerd you.
I'm not even five minutes in and I've already made loads of notes to help build my empire for my novel. I've actually put this book off for three years because I realized how difficult this part of it was and I had no idea where to start. This video is amazing. Your video on monarchies helped me loads as well. I'm signing up for your patreon! PLEASE continue these!
Here is a very good way to show how powerful propaganda is. Almost everything that people think that know about Sparta and The Spartan is basically either completely wrong or very embellished. More then 2000 years we have been telling ourselves lies and for so long that they have became truth.
What an enlightening comment.😐
Then what really happened, buddy?
Leonidas was a political genius, is what.
That's complete bs
Most of the sources about spartan society came from outside of the city and non spartans since they themself didn't care about writing down that much of stuff and the only non spartan greek who fapped on to sparta in ancient times was Xenophon.
@@tos8900 There were only 300 Spartans at Thermapolae, yes that part is true, but there were also thousands upon thousands of other Greeks. Sparta was the richest among them so they took all the credit.
I'd say that my favorite empire is the Byzantine Empire. Mostly because of how bad they were at dealing with their numerous problems (with some rulers and leaders being the exception) and yet managing to outlive its western counterpart by a thousand years, dying a very slow death. Its history is a really interesting thing.
How can you be so bad and survive for a thousand years? Obviously, they were not as bad.
@@kofola9145 nah their government are crappy as hell, and most of the time are led by selfish, shrewd cunning emperor, they're survive mostly because Constantinople and Muslims Caliphate's rising, there are many article and video that could explain the detail
@@kofola9145, if we talk about their survivability of their empire, they could be considered [mostly] lucky and good.
But for nearly [or even probably] all other aspects... meh.
Cough, you mean the Roman Empire
@@kofola9145 The Roman Republic and later Empire was a beast of a state, steamrolling over the mediterranean and beyond. Then It divided in two, the Byzantine Empire inherited the best parts, yet they were unable to expand like their predecessors did, instead slowly withering and losing all of their land. So yes, they were pretty bad.
the amount of work that went into this video is just amazing, you could tell that a lot of passion was a big part of the creation of this video
So you're telling me....
Empires actually do change? 0_0
This video was so amazing! I love Empires both fictional and historical (my most personal favorite in fiction being the Covenant Empire from Halo, and for historical being the rather obvious Roman Empire), and how they truly work is so facanating to me. I can't wait for the second part to this great video! :)
Rome is not an Empire it is The Empire.
My favorite Empire was the Macedonian Empire. Mainly because of one delusional King. The one who thought he was a son of Zeus. The King of Macedon, the Hedgemond of the Hellenic League, Pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia & the LORD OF ASIA!
He was Alexander & he was the Great.
For the Emperors glorious Imperium to not be mentioned, this is serious heresy
mongol empire is the coolest
Luke Skywalker the 2nd my favorite roman emperor is the one that wagered half of the roman empire to the doctor that could preform a sex change on him. Idk why but this is the most ironic thing to have ever occured in roman history
“Planets and Glaxies..... *AND WHOLE CONTINENTS”*
The Age of Empires 2 segments were surprising but welcome.
tl;dr: what was Aragorn's tax policy? XD
Pretty Great actually! He managed to rebuild Gondor recolonise Arnor and rule both as a united kingdom. This stuff costs money that efficient administration is able to raise
Now if only humans could legally visit the Shire under Aragorn's rule instead of that Restoration era travel ban he imposed on that specific region for no other reason than "people are capable of doing bad things to other people".
Clearly he was attempting to normalise relations with the Shire before Integration, Arnor was still in the process of Recolonisation and couldn't be ruled directly so he made sure the Shire (one of the only Stable places the far North-West other than the Blue Mountains and the Grey Harbors) will remain untouched until it could be properly integrated into Armor with a little more oversight.
@@yochaiwyss3843 I guess that makes sense.
I clearly have played too much eu4 , since I first thought of the country of Aragon in eastern Iberia.
WH40K is also a good example of importance of trade and communication in the empire. (Quite ironic since it can take a century before they notice they lost a system)
Holy Terra's greatest purpose is keeping the Emperor barely not dead and thus keeping Astronomican functioning. Without it _safe_ passage through the warp would be impossible and second Age of Strife would begin.
Also it's home to biggest and most influential of Navigators Houses and its close proximity to Mars, the greatest Forge World, makes it natural capital to all humanity. No matter how inefficient and decentralised The Empire is, it's still the best choice.
Oh absolutely. This is also why the Cicatrix Maledictum is such a massive issue
And the emperor is a god
Plus, the Imperium of Man has a REALLY effective feudal system set up. Layer after layer of it, such that to the person on the ground the Imperium of Man is basically a name and a culture/religion, rather than a state. All of 40k's focus on the sharp end of the stick tends to steer people away from realizing that the IoM has some pretty fantastic policy's in terms of joining them, if you don't have a culture clash. 'We don't care as long as you pay your tithes and follow the state religion.' is pretty much their jam. They're just as fine with a plutocracy, aristocracy, dictatorship or direct democracy in terms of government and cultural mores from the most Elizabethan society to the most hippy commune... as long as you follow the state religion and pay your taxes. (Hell they'd drop the religion thing, but Chaos makes that not an option.)
Sorain1 tbf I have a theory that the IoM is a pretty safe and there are probably plenty of good planets that trump modern living standards but are not mentioned because it would clash with the grimdark theme and when they are mentioned they are usually the target of one if not all of the following
1.) Ork WAAAGH
2.) Hive Fleet
3.) Necron Tomb World
4.) Black Crusade
5.) Dark Eldar raid
Mat Cauthon
So after seeing the video and looking at comments, I’ve come to the conclusion that robote gulliman truly is the best primarch when it comes to empire building, as he, you know, builds an empire to last and one that people want to live in. Then again he is based of the romans.
Wonderful video, I would highly recommend the Malazan Empire and Erikson books for your future videos. I think your videos are severely impoverished without this series. Erikson's experience as an Archeologist makes his world building, magic system and empire building one of the best. He even gets philosophical about empires and often makes them run into each other.
*Hears constant AoE references*
*Leans back in throne*
Yes, this pleases me.
You know, what you said about allowing conquered lands keep their rulers has a modern example. When the U.S.A. conquered Japan, one of the conditions the Japanese people insisted on was that their beloved Emperor stay in power. He did. And the occupation went “relatively” smoothly.
Um, no, he was killed. His replacement took over.
You what? While I wouldn't use 'conquer' as an accurate description what America did to Japan in and after WW2, the Emperor most certainly wasn't killed. He died in 1989.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito
the whole reason america nuked japan is because we wanted unconditional surrender tho.
@cobragladiator There are conditions and there are "conditions." Unconditional surrender meant that the leaders didn't have to sit down at a table and negotiate for weeks or months over every clause of what would and would not be allowed in the surrender. Practically speaking, however, the Americans knew that if they did certain things, (like remove the Emperor) they would be facing constant labour strikes, off duty soldiers being murdered in alleys, and widespread general resistance to their end goals.
huh,'cause i'm pretty sure we removed the emperor, or something like that, i mean, like, it was something like:the japanese were gonna keep fighting maybe, i believe to protect their emperor, but he said "look, guys, stop it, if they're willing to nuke us twice, i'm not worth that, let's just surrender." or something like that. : P guess i need to re-do history class or something.
I would have like to see you touch on communication among the common folk being suppressed or hard to spread. Look at modern day North Korea. One reason it's so easy to keep the people oppressed despite hellish and often fatal living conditions is because they've made it extremely difficult for towns to communicate between each other, or for the people to communicate to the outside world. Even in China, a fairly open and modern country, filters information the public can view by blacklisting search terms or entire sites, and through controlling what is or isn't legal to broadcast on television. In Fahrenheit 451, the burning of books and demonizing of them is what began the huge loss of knowledge and push for education in the masses. An educated and well-informed public is one that is more likely to be self-aware and rebellious. (Also in Bradbury's book, the integration of television for mass consumption and especially the ability for the viewer to take a role in the televised shows was a way of integrating the public into cultural norms.)
Information isn't just about how fast the central government can send it out, it's about how limited the available communication and education is to the public at large.
Thanks for making these incredible videos about writing. I am writing a story and these have helped so much. They give me so much useful information incredibly fast, I love how deep you go into the backstory and behind the scenes because that makes a great story, I also love making things as realistic as possible even in fantasy sci-fi settings so everything that isn't made up feels more real and more believable. I love how you do so much in-depth research into all of these topics and present it in an easy way to the average person in an overview of all the most important bits. I love your videos, I have been a long time fan of the channel.
This is so helpful in building a believable living changing world for my tabletop games. Thank you for giving me much to consider with the larger governing bodies I want to include in my worlds
The Protoss empire was so solid becouse of Khala. They were able to communicate telapathicly and thus their actios were usally synchronized. Also they had this caste system that was clear and noone would question it. The protoss who didn't fit had 2 options. Either start fitting in society or join other factions like Nerazim or Tal'Darim. Aslo yeah, warp gates helped them a lot with transport and communication b Khala, Succesors and the history of their people was what made them effective. The Succesors rememberd entire history of Protoss and they could say when they were repeating same mistakes as their ancestors.
Exactly, and the events of SC2 demonstrated how dependent on Khala they really were.
Sargon of Akkad always requires a 'Not that one' after it
Lol😁
Yeah.
At least it's thematically appropriate to bring him up during a section on propaganda
tfw you are ruler of one of the most powerful empires in the world at the time but nowadays you are associated with a fat atheist youtuber
Sulphuric_Glue Maybe it's an improvement over people using "pharaoh" to mean "evil"?
This video showed me, yet again, that the world of the Expanse is amazing. The empires, both really and late, include these aspects and the story influences them.
Down with the empire! Spanish Vill rush is the only viable strategy!!!!
Fantastic video!!! My favorite Empire is the Persian Empire. After listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast, King of Kings and hearing about Cyrus the Great and how the Persians allowed the lands they conquered to keep their religion was fascinating. I highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in ancient societies and empires. With that said, the Mongols are a close second because of their sheer military prowess. Their impact on the entirety of Asia and parts of present day Europe is staggering and the fact that their "Emperor" was constantly on the move, setting up mini capitals wherever was convenient, is so interesting to me.
(Sorry headed for the bad english I tried to correct it but something must have slipped through the cracks.)
Tim you forgot the 3 types of domination that creates legitimacy according to Weber.
Charisma: An exceptional leader(s) can hold a strong sway over the populace, but if something happens to the leader this legitimacy can be questioned.
Legal/Rational: Simply put an effective bureaucracy and fair treatment can convince the populace that the ones in power know what they are doing an shoud continue doing so.
Tradition: If a goverment has ben stable and relatively prosperus for a long time then people are more inclined to be loyal out of custom and a general fear of change, according to Weaber this is one of the strongest types of domination.
Weaber also said that that to perpetually expert legitimate power over a state you need a combination of any of these types of dominion.
1. Is basically the part about communicating to citizens
2. Is basically the part about commerce
3. Is the part about creating unifying customs for the people (religion or other traditions).
I love your channel, I was just watched two back to back. And I had so many ideas for my world building project I'm making time in the next few days to sit down go back and take notes as I remember my ideas and form new ones! Thanks so much for these amazing in depth videos!!!
I love your long videos, never apologize for giving them the effort you do :)
Age of Empires... Childhood of Empires for me. Anyway, here are some points about historical empires. The Romanization of their empire did work for a lot of nations, though a remarkable exception was Jewish culture having such a strong sense of identity that they even survived the sacking of their homeland in the 1st century. While this next one is fairly well known, it is something to think about in context of worldbuilding, Roman citizens could join the Roman Legion while those who weren't could join a parallel military group called the auxiliaries and one of the perks of service was that if an auxiliary survived their service, they and their children would become Roman citizens. It should also be pointed out that in the seas surrounding Britain, it has been those with the best ships who ruled, from vikings to Normans (who were vikings but based out of a region of France), and the fact that after the halt of the Anglo-Saxon Invasion before all they started, the Celts who ruled non-Germanic England managed to form a colony in France which was called Brittany (no kidding) shows how good ships can aid in empire-making. Oh, and after the British eventually did manage to repel an invasion from the mainland and keep them at bay with only ships; how else would you fight the invincible army of Napoleon? This is really long, so I'll stop.
I’ve always loved ancient Egypt their religion and culture has always fascinated me
i never expected to find an Eddie Izzard joke in a youtube video about world building, but here we are.
The good taste alone is worth a sub.
I love this channel, I love you, and I’m a new subscriber. This channel is a godsend for me as a writer (who hasn’t written any sort of story since starting college/grad school) and as a fair critic of the literature I love. Can’t wait to binge these as I write the final pages of my dissertation!
I really glad that you brought up economics point. It's in my mind pretty much why the American-EU partnership works. America for all it's ills provides safety and security to world trade which the EU greatly benefits from so in return they politically align or tolerate america's foreign policy. Additional with america effectively save guarding and policing the world the EU nations are free to send what would go to that on social welfare and reforms. I think it would be really cool if someone took this dynamic and had fun with it in a fictional medium.
LOVE the AOE references! Great game! Wololo!!!
Thank you so much for all the videos, but this one. This one is probably my favorite so far. I needed that insight!!
I'm using this info for my book's worldbuilding for empires, thanks!
The Empire of Man is Eternal.
The emperor protects brother
As for my favorite empire it is Roman Empire or, to better say, it's continuation as Byzantine Empire.
Also I found a couple more things important to Empire to achieve. One thing is that Empire must be slow growing. As history showed us, any Empire that was maken fast (Mongol, Arabic, Charlemagne's etc.) didn't lasted long. The best example of this is empire of Alexander the Great. His Empire expanded too quickly and he didn't had the time to consolidate his Empire due to his premature death. Alexander also failed to secure the most vital thing that brings the fast-maden Empire together - the heir! You see, fast maden empire's are always maken by those brilliant individuals like Alexander or Ghengis Kan. The problem is that one that makes huge empire fast, must pass it to at least capable ruler. But the rulers often fail to do that. In the worst scenarios, like in Alexander's, a clear successor doesn't exist and the empire is torn apart between various generals or other powerful figures. Thus for the empire it is very important to always have a good and well established line of those who would inherit it. Also it is vital that heir were capable. Thus the dynastical system is very risky, because you must to give throne to your relative (son, brother, daughter,...) even if he/she isn't capable of managing an empire. The best solution for this problem was found in Rome in the so called age of "Five good emperors". In that time Romans realized that the best way to manage empire is to not establish dynasty, but to every emperor chooses one man with extraordinary skills (usually general or governor) to adopt him and declare him heir to the throne. But Romans would go further and make heirs adopt another men with great skills to become "heir of the heir"! Unfortunately for Romans once one of those adopted emperors, Marcus Aurelius, put his own son, Commodus, to be the heir. And it turned out that Commodus was bloodthirsty lunatic! Then he was killed by his not so loyal Pretorian guard and left the throne without heir. And then you know.......... *CIVIL WARS!*
So that's it. I could talk about many more things that keep empire together, but if you guys are interested more we could start some discussion in comments of this comment. 😉
All fair points.
Extremely info-packed, and crystal clear. Your videos are a model, thanks a lot!
I love how 40k has the propeganda and religion and production but it’s so terrible uprisings happen all the time but it’s also SO HUGE they just wipe out everyone even near a rebel just like “see that mountain range we made just to house people? PURGE IT”
I figured you'd have to have seen the CGP Grey video before!
Or read the book
@@jorenvanderark3567 the book is an absolute BORE
@@HxH2011DRA
It's a book that scientificly explains politics, it does not need to exciting it needs to be educating, and that it does.
@@jorenvanderark3567 for such an important topic that people are interested in can't say I approve but fair enough videos are usually better anyway
+The Bloodroyal Well, if you want to actually learn something, falling to sleep from pure boredom and exhaustion is not the best way. It's of my opinion that important educational topics should be well written to engage the reader. It should never read like a manuscript.
So well, an amazing job. Gotta love the StarCraft inclusion. It's weird how all of those empires seem homogeneous at first, but then you see the splintering and slow shift in each. I'm really in awe at the amount of Canon you're working across. I have no idea how you keep it all cordoned off so well and neatly.
Samantha Davidson he didn’t. I literally spoon fed him everything
I do realy like how you look at so many details that i would never have thought about on my own.
You have to admire the imagination of the authors who make these stories. I don't even think I could make a story like they do.
Switzerland just sitting there: "Its fine"
Once again at the one point I really need it. Thank you!
2 years of not watching this channel and this video, and I missed out on
“They were safe from slavery. Which is, you know, a low bar. But a good one!”
Instant sub right there. I'm not a writer, and have no plans on ever doing anything relating to that, but the information you provided in this videos are really interesting anyway. Especially for someone really into history and loves to better understand and judge the fictional worlds they enjoy (like me, duh). Wonderful work!
One example of propaganda i love is the spanish inquisition.
It was one of the most benevolent courts (if you weren't jewish). The major part of the criminals were self presented, the civil criminals usually say blasphemous things too make the inquisition look at them. They would only tourure you one time, and without hurting, plus confesion under tourture wasn't valid. They give free food (civil prisions no) and clothes for the cold and never burn anybody, in spain only twelve women were hanged for witches, in Germany were more than 20.000, and killed with fire.
What happened? The english empire made a lot of propaganda against the imperial spain, too make the people prefer be english, and even today, even in spain, the people belive that propaganda. Fucking 500 years later.
So happy to see someone knows about this and posts it. It would have been fun to see more about the external issues of empire which I think are just as important as the internal. Did you know one of the best examples of antimperialist propaganda was done by the USA. They said germans ate kids in Belgium. After the war thousands of German surnames had disappeared from the US record, they had changed them because of discrimination and prosecution.
@@alejandroojeda1572 Right. I remember seeing a political cartoon of the time depict that.
And yeah, the English made the Spanish look bad. I had a history proffessor in College whose specialty was Spain and this was one of the things she had brought up in our historiography class. Due to the myth the British created of the Spanish, historians had long depicted the Spanish as bad rulers. The myth was that deeply ingrained even in academia.
But what about the horror that was having to sit in the soft comfy chair of doom.
The inquisition was bad on principle. They tortured, murdered and imprisoned people for "saying blasphemous things". Propaganda to make that seem bad just wouldn't even be necessary. Killing even one person for witchcraft is an atrocity. The whole of Europe during that time was engaged in reprehensible behavior.
@@gustavju4686 To be exact, the Spain of those years (i won't say nothing of the actual), was a really bad in rule terms.
They don't let the colonies comerce with other countries, and that made the empire fall.
Also, all the gold of the americas goes all to the war, and the main land was full of injured and poor veterans.
The inquisition was between the church and the monarchy, and with the objective of win money, so they take the jew outside spain keeping all their money. They torture you, usually putting a wet fabric in the mouth. That make you feel you are runing out of air but nothing more (like in the movie of deadpool). Looks horrible.
The spanish empire was a chaos, but some things simply arent right:
They didn't kill all the natives in the americas. They make them citicens (some ever owners of lands. Was bad, but the british were far worse). The problem and the thousand of deads? The health. Problems very little for the europeans were destructive for the natives.
Second: for the time, the inquisition was even good and kind (for the time). And a lot of actual countries will say the same.
They didn't touture and kills tousands. Only hundreds (still bad, don't misunderstand me). The propaganda of the british empire was exelent. Till today even shanish people belive it
This is a comment for the youtube algorythem.
This is a comment to teach you how to spell algorithm correctly.
An excellent comment.
Oh wait, this isn't Ashens, whoops.
Another good example to check out is Extra Credits' Extra History series--especially the one on the empire of Majapahit. They did a bunch of miniseries on different empires (including the Byzantines, the Iranians, and Mali), but the one on Majapahit (in what we today know as Indonesia) is an interesting study in a type of empire that's very different to the kind we usually think of when we hear the word "empire." They were more interested in controlling trade and spreading their cultural practices than they were in marching into a territory and demanding everyone change the local currency and the swear fealty to them (not that that didn't occasionally happen, it just wasn't as popular).
I love these videos. They're fascinating and very helpful to me as a writer and worldbuilder.
Dude, these world building series have been so awesome for helping me develop my DnD campaign world...
Achaemenid Persian Empire, hands down it was the best empire ever, freedom of religion, freedom from slavery (which was the primary source of labor in the world at the time). This, combined with a light touch method of rule powered by Satraps (governors), who could be appointed or removed by the King of Kings at any given time. Yeah, the Persians were hands down one of the best empires to ever rule.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, at their height they owned 43% of the world's population, no nation has ever come as close to what could be considered World Domination as them. Not even the British Empire, which at its height controlled about 37%, would match them.
They were also pretty good about gender equality, especially for the time.
That doesn't make them a good empire
@@historian252 You're right, but they were kind of a best-case scenario for an empire.
@@politicalnerdV Not really.
@@historian252 What's your reasoning? I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd love to hear you elaborate further.
11:02 Love the use of the Mote in God’s Eye as an example! It’s especially interesting in that all the stuff about the Second Empire, as detailed and richly imagined as it is, is essentially just backstory to the main plot about the Mote. Also, it’s a Niven and Pournelle collaboration, and is set in Pournelle’s universe instead of Niven’s. Gotta give some credit to Jerry Pournelle, man.
Such a fantastic watch and so many ideas. Been writing for my gaming group for years and for whatever reason never though about the kingdoms and their inner working. Definitely going to be doing some evaluations!
Incredible video and insights! You are one of the best content creators of this area.