Can you do a piece on the life of a average slave in Rome vs Athens/Thebes/Corinth (your choice) (If the differences are measurable that is) Thanks Metatronyt
Good thing you made this video, I saw the title just as I was getting ready to turn on my time machine and go back to try and annoy Socrates by asking him endless questions.
Can you imagine people from 1000 years in the future finding this articles and saying "people from the 2000's didn't understand the past." What a good example we're leaving to the next generations. Good video as always, mate.
It's a cycle that has existed for a while, every future generation likes to believe they have become greater than the last and will look down on the past.
More like "People from 2000's didn't wash their hands, and there even were medical campaigns to teach people that hygiene is an important thing, as evident by the great 2019 virus plague." Because people never seem to understand the past and are prone to believe the craziest things about it.
Historian method changed many times in the past. At the beginning, until 1700, they only read annals and chronicles, which were written almost every time in cities, so they completely underestimated what happened outside. Then archaeology come and changed everything, then genomics, statistics, applied economics, and so on. So history you had at school still says middle age was a terrible age, while the amount of skeletons from this age, with evidence of starving, are much less than the ones in the roman period, which is seen as a golden age. The myth of the horrible, dark Middle Ages comes from enlightenment, to prove that without enlightenment nothing can be achieved. Such historian can't explain renaissance, which they kind of ignore or diminish, because of ideology. To add more disaster, in many high schools the teacher of history is never a historian, more commonly is history and philosophy (they believe ideas make history) or worst, teachers of literature, which is even worse, since they take for good whatever a romance says. For example, this is why in the UK people thinks that Romeo and Juliet story was plausible in Italy.Shakespeare took inspiration from several Italian sources, and added many things which were not true, neither plausible. Cappelletti (not Capuleti) were not a Verona's family, and since Cappelletti were guelph, while Montecchi were against, this would have been the political reason, not the blood. If the problem was only blood, more likely they would have been ally, meaning Romeo and Juliet were more likely to get FORCED to marry, to bind the two families. (If only Cappelletti were living in Verona, I mean). Of course, if you are into English literature, you think this is pure history, while the whole story was circulating (quite different thou) during Dante's time. Why? Because this is what a literature teacher is supposed to do. So, pop history is mostly the result of bad teachers, and obsolete research methods.
Some people can't sleep at night because they are up concerned and confused that some people don't want to be sheltered and pampered all the time, and would rather face risks and challenges once in a while. Thinking it is any of their business how other people want to live.
Good thing you're enthusiastic, because your vulnerability to diseases 2.5K years removed from what our immune systems are equipped to deal with would most certainly mean you're not coming back from that, so enjoy your stay for however long it manages to last.
@@leonardomarquesbellini If you are a descendent of people who lived through those plagues, you will have inherited their immune system adaptations. 2500 years is not very much time when speaking about evolutionary adaptations.
Curse you for not making this video sooner! I just came back from Ancient Greece and it was a nightmare, I was in Athens and I asked some weird bearded guy called Socrates or something if he knew where I can charge my phone and instead of answering me like a normal person je started to question my motives for wanting to charge my phone by using bizzare comparisons with sailors, soldiers and somehow even managed to bring in the need for censoring Homer into the conversation. This went on for two hours, I finnaly ran away after he began talking about the moral qualities of rocks. Ancient Greece must be a hallucination, don't go there!
@@helvete_ingres4717 It was less that he was an enemy of the people and more that he was an enemy of the _wrong_ people who had political power. Athens was not a state free of corruption.
Also Socrates totally wanted to die. He was given an easy out during his trial but instead he intentionally sabotaged his defence so that he would go down in history as the philosopher killed for his beliefs. He did it for his legacy and that's why we remember him and not all the other philosophers of the same time.
I've found that a lot of people have bizarre views of history like we've degraded from back in the day because they simply don't know stuff. When The Passion of the Christ came out, my friend, who I met when we both got our PoliSci degrees, said it affected her because "How could people in the past do that to others?" I had this wtf moment in my head like "You-you mean you _didn't know_ about all the messed-up sh*t that people did historically? What?" How do you make it through a political science degree _without_ learning this stuff?
@@nelus7276 I mean you can be affected by a movie like The Passion of Christ about the hedonistic nature of men and still be aware that historically men have created misery for other men and women for as long as humans have existed.
I distinctly recall in my classics class that Ancient Greece was basically a long set of brutal wars with gentle sprinkling of slightly less brutal wars.
@@findingbeautyinthepain8965 If not for the Art of war, World history would be 12 page comic book. They teach children not to settle their differences with threats and violence, yet the most refined successful mature adults of the world rely upon settling their differences through violence and threats
@@godetonter4764 What exactly is your point here though? Yes, psychopaths tend to climb quickly through political and financial power hierarchies, because of their lack of empathy and often narcissistic worldview that allows them to cruelly carve their way to corrupt and predatory positions whose structure has itself been built over generations by similar people. How does this delegitimize how people are taught in schools not to choose violence first and foremost? The vast majority of people aren't psychopaths, and therefore generally wish to avoid said violence, in order to protect the people around them and actually make life liveable without constant fear of violence. Is that such a hard concept to grasp? And I'd hardly call most of these individuals "refined". It's easy to surround yourself with wealth when you've stolen that wealth from the unfortunate and enslave your nation so you can eat fancy meals with equally self-absorbed individuals. I think you are confusing actual intellectual refinement with sheer hedonistic narcissism and sadistic pleasure-seeking. Mate you need a reality check, and probably a brain scan too, you might be a psychopath yourself.
@@godetonter4764 That’s so true! I remember thinking I hated history until my early 20’s because we only learned Military history in school. I remember being super interested in learning about the full truth of slavery, and all we learned was when it started, when it ended, and that it was bad, despite half my class being wealthy black girls with elite parents. (I mention the black students’ economic station, because the elites are usually catered to.) It wasn’t until I did my own research on every day people’s real lives when I realized I love history.
@@godetonter4764 That's a bit of a simpleminded Nietzschean view of things. The "most refined, successful, mature adults of the world" make a lot of effort to avoid conflict, and to mitigate its destructiveness when it does happen. Warrior cults are parasitic on civilization, and the more educated versions that some places had in history were mostly due to a lack of economic development. Smart, driven people today can get ahead in life without being malicious to others.
I empathize with his frustration *so much!* He handles it better than I do; the "filthy middle ages" fallacy ( at like, only 1:16 into the vid) would have sent me pacing and flailing my arms, clutching at my forehead, and beseeching the heavens for divine strength, or wisdom, or retribution, or something, anything! I get enough of that on a daily basis as it is, dealing with adults who seem unable to comprehend even the simplest concepts. Like "when it rains, things get wet" (exaggerated for humourous effect, but not by much). I can't envision a world where I would willingly subject myself to such horrors. Just the thought makes me want to curl up in the fetal position
Great video as always. Now, my usual nitpicking: as far as I know, the shield was called the “aspis”, and the term “hoplon” referred to the gear as a whole. The “Hoplite” would be “the equipped one” and the term “panoply” derives from what they called “full gear”(helmet, cuirass, shield and greaves), as “pan”=“whole” or “all”. Please correct me if I am mistaken. 😉
@@edstar83 I have noticed that the spanish-speaking😃 people who live in Greece are the only ones who can easily learn and speak greek correctly with perfect accent as well. On the other hand, this is almost impossible when it comes to people from slavic-speaking😝 or germanic-speaking🤪 countries regardless of how many years they live here.
What is strange about this article is that they don't mention the most obvious: democracy in Athens was only for free men. You wouldn't want to be a slave or a woman in ancient Athens. As a woman, you were beter off in Sparta. As a slave, it didn't matter.
@@BladeValant546 but as Frans stated, you had more rights as a woman in sparta, than in Athens middel class in sparta, who do you think build the weapons and armor for the Spartans, cause the Spartans werent working the forges, those werent spartans, but they still had rights
Sure, life for women in ancient Greece was a bit more like life for them in a modern Arabic country, i.e it wasn’t so bad. The biggest threat, as always before the age of anti-biotics, was childbirth with a mortality of something like 15%.
Democracy in Athens was managed by people who had skin in the game. Random homeless peoples who understood nothing about the political climate were not permitted a vote for good reason. Even in the modern Internet days people don't know who or what they're looking for.
I usually can't stand debunk videos, but this is actuallt quite good. You don't only have knowledge, but also a sense of proportion most youtubers lack. Thank You
just the fact they got aesthetic temples and statues and shitz like that literally EVERYWHERE, even in villages, it just makes me wanna go back then and live there
As a Greek the title freaked me out! Luckily i watched through all of it and was laughing by the end. Thank you Metatron for pointing out the uniformed. Keep up the excellent work you are doing and never stop being a Rome fanboy.
Wonderful video, thanks. Let's not forget Herodotus who basically went around gathering stories and tales and legends but got so many things wrong that his "history" is mostly just anecdote. Fun reading but not history in the modern sense.
I think it also depends on the kind of time travel. I would prefer to be able to travel and just witness events as a spectator (and be able to come back to my time) rather than end up in the role of an inhabitant of that time.
"You had to buy your own gear." As opposed to modern Russia or Afghanistan where the government does buy you gear but then sells it on the black market instead of giving it to you, and you need to raid the local hiking store for equipment.
Just found this channel the other day and I am hooked! Glad to see someone as fascinated and knowledgeable about history as I am. You just got a new sub Mr. Metatron 😎👍
When I use my Seer’s abilities and peer into Ancient Greece, I am ASTONISHED to discover EXTRAORDINARILY advanced mechanics, tools, equipments and instruments! Almost like those of the 20th century…
Another thing that “filters” what we know about the past is that war tends to leave a lot more records, and physical evidence drawing more attention then finding more evidence. And tends to be more interesting for reenacting or producing as far as movies go. The lives of your average ancient person has not gotten the proper attention.
I recommend pocking up a copy of the sewage system in Byzantium by Konstantinos Kantakouzenos. (This isn't actually a real book it's a reference to an old sitcom show we had here in Greece.)
I’d love to time travel with the Metatron! He’d regal me with endless tales of historical cheek clapping near and far!! It would be the best because the Metatron is the best!!!!
I love how the website meant to help us learn, is not even sure about their own words. Like did the article not do research before posting it? Yeah I can see why this one was picked for debunking.
There is a book called Hipocrates Writings. It is a small book which is a collection of surviving medical knowledge attributed to Hipocrates, including the oath. There is section in the book dedicated to lungs disease. As a doctor, I can testify that it is a scientific article without any mysticism and ahead of its time by more than 2,000 years. We know that doctors in antiquity performed neurosurgical, kidney and eye surgeries. I have tried to treat my own illness with ancient remedies and result was better than treatment with modern medicine. What ancien medicine lacked was technology. Medicine, like other science, can only be at the level of general development of other science and technology. Yet, medicine in antiquity was slightly ahead of many other scientific developments.
Just returned from my Time Warp Travel and visit with Aristoxenus to discuss the popular Greek musical hits of his age. It was way cool. Aristoxenus is one hip dude. 😂
In 1888, the first modern commercial deodorant, Mum, was developed .......................for anyone who thinking of time traveling to the ancient past
Plenty of people do not use deodorant. Especially if it contains aluminum. In any case, people will use perfume or salt. They might have smelled, but so do modern humans based on how many chemical products we use.
@@blacktigerpaw1 Sadly, I experience this evil multiple times a week. Go to the gym only to be driven out of certain exercise areas due to an inconsiderate offensive jerk not wearing deodorant. Eye watering filthy goat smell. USE DEODERANT YA ANIMALS.
it becomes too much when combined with other field gear. batteries, water, food, extra clothes and the weight of misc equipment required for your mission adds up fast.
I mean lets be honest. If you took your average modern day schlub and transported him back in time like in some bad Japanese isekai novel. Realistically he'd either die or be a slave for the rest of his days, because that's just how ancient greeks and the ancient world in general, rolled.
@@julietfischer5056 Skallagrim did a whole video about why travel to the middle ages would probably suck. I'm sure it would be doubly so for Ancient Greece.
Depends on if you have useful skills or not (and if you magically get their language or can learn it at all). If you are a medic of any qualification, an engineer, or a chemistry teacher, for example, you'll likely do well. Basically, practical knowledge would have you set up well.
@@tommyfishhouse8050 eh. It was a bit more complex than that. Metic (non-citizen free) women could hold more rights (like financial operations and even court representation) than citizen-women in Athens. It is a rather complex matter, but let's just say that Ancient Greeks didn't limit their women in rights because of belief in their inferiority, but because they viewed rights in a different light than us, modern people (right to vote or be a part of legal system was seen as more of a burden before community, rather than a benefit). I could recommend Sarah Pomeroy's "Goddesses, Whores, Wives, and Slaves: Women in Classical Antiquity" as a foundational study into the matter of women's rights in the Antiquity. P.S. But to answer your question, if an educated woman happens to time-travel to Athens, she has a pretty good chance of becoming one of the most famous Hetaira - perhaps even a better decision than being free, Metic owner of a business enterprise of some kind.
To be fair I don't think their is a single pre modern city or empire that would remotely seem humane to our modern sensibility. Although if they make a literal time machine I'm sure we will have replicator and translation implants so I'd give it a go
Another thing about the deadly cosmetics thing that I find funny is that, today we have things in our foods, cosmetics, and just about everything else that is killing us slowly and we don't even realise it... today, this is happening as we speak lol
Hello Metatron. So the authors should hoplite back to where they started from? It sort of made me think how my Greek friend at university was shocked that I knew about Greek history. Despite the local students appearing to her as uncouth Yorkshire barbarians, one of us had a mum from Italy, as were many of my neighbours, mostly from the "Greek" south, as she pointed out. She was amazed that I knew what triremes were and that I could read Greek words, until I pointed out we were both science graduates and used the letters all the time. Mind you she did give me a good shield design idea, of a snake coiled round a stick. I could see she was getting a bit bored though, when I started going on about Spartan film depictions having the wrong shaped helmet.
From your perspective here and now. Too many creature comforts here and now. We are all soft in this age. We owe it to ourselves to strive to be more like them. We cannot go back. But we can do better. They were better.
Nice vid there sir. Assumptions...though some might say that when dealing with the past, especially the distant past, there is a certain level of inherent assumption.
IMO they stuck the landing with saying ancient greeks "probably" weren't defecating in the streets. I would think your chances of encountering a street turd would pretty quickly hit non-zero the closer you got to Diogenes.
My commanding officer informed our Cp “ you need to be more Spartan “ I informed him “ I will not share my nettles with a young boy no matter how cold I got” This did not go without punishment.
Firstly, comparing a kinda specific place/region of any time period to a large time period without a specific location is worse than comparing apples to oranges. It's like comparing a wheat field to winter, senseless.
I am so impressed with your work! ... so gladly I subscribe. You have a great way to engage people in history. What you are doing is very important. Thank you.😅
Ancient Greeks realized it was difficult for all elible citizens to be present to vote for reasons, such as sickness, etc. Romans, studying Greek history, improved the situation in their Republic court system divided between patricians, and also plebians, representing common citizens?
Former modern soldier here! I served from 2008-2012 and here is my equipment: Platecarrier: 10 kg cloths, helmet, boots: like 5kg MG3: 11kg G36: 3,5 kg Ammunition: 5 kg backpack with stuff; 5-10 kg (20-30 if you go out for several days) so you see, you have to carry around like 30-50 kg depends on mission have a nice day
Well, I'd like to record the lost plays of Sophocles, Aescalus, Aristophanes, Euripides, and Menander, the lost writings of Aristotle, record Socrates' asstual lectures and conversations, snf the Parthenon being built, and the red figure and black figue pottery being made.
If I were dumped into Ancient Greece I would probably find myself wandering around unable to figure out what to do. Now thing is that if I am in a city they "probably" already had a system set in place for foreigners that found themselves abandon and trying to live on the street which is to say I am probably going to be an unpaid servant working 12 hours a day for a loaf of stale bread and a bunk bed. I know this is how it worked in other areas of the world at that time period. If you get dropped in what we might call hillbilly territory once they figure out you are an abandon foreigner that is homeless they would probably just enslave you. But your experience depends largely on what community you find yourself in. If you are really lucky you might find yourself working for an educated person who wants to know more about this foreigner that speaks a language totally unknown to them and would get you out of hard manual labor for an hour or two a day.
Nice video . I am glad you exposed the article and how these people write this stuff really are wrong on what they are telling people. Good work on part for exposing this. Glad to listen to you and what you had to say.
Since I was little I’ve helped my dad with his job, it’s an odd one where he delivers miss placed airport bags and delivers them to an address listened on the passengers file. Since I really started helping carry them(around 12 or so) we’ve had to deliver military bags and oh my God they’re heavy when I was younger my dad didn’t even let me near them when he was loading them in recent years I’ve been able to help him by lifting a side to now where I can pick them up and I still can’t pick up the men’s bags 😂 those fvvckers weigh more than I do and I’m a big girl ok
Article should be: If you have a fridge, PC, TV, a health insurance and other modern commodities, you probably wouldn't want to live 70 years ago and beyond. The end.
Aspis is the more accurate term to use for the shield, Metatron. Hoplon/Hopla (plural)/Hoplite derive from the term to mean arms/men-at-arms (or armed man, really). So Hoplon is a generic term that could mean any armament of war. Indeed, around 13-15-ish pounds is a very likely guesstimate of the historical range of weight for an aspis. :) And oh yes, this article is horrendous. No doubt about that. Good corrections throughout! The assumption that battlefield identification needs to be as blatant as red versus blue is a modernism that totally ignores the historical reality of hoplite battlefield tactics and the situation in-situ. So, firstly, a phalanx wasn't just an enormous mass of people told to gather in one spot, it was created by smaller units called lochoi (singular, lochos), which themselves were usually divided by tribal affiliation. Hoplites themselves were originally the absolute cream of the crop elites of the society in the Archaic period, but toward the Classical were more of a broad upper classmen. In any case, they would probably recognize the other influential or wealthy men of their own tribes. The type of episema (symbols) used on the shields would likely have a strong tribal or polis-based influence, or could be entirely personal, but it's likely that you'd know at least a lot of the men in your own lochos. After that sort of general grouping, the phalanx itself was organized by files of men. This was usually 8-12 ranks deep. So another reason you were unlikely to become disorganized or confused is that you're basically "in line", following behind the man in front, and the man behind you is doing the same. When the actual battle went down, it really was, generally, as simple as go forward and meet the opposite line, and beat them back. Friendly fire incidents absolutely did occur, and in some cases the episema was changed to be the specific symbol or even abbreviation of a particular city-state to make it less likely, but the hollywood idea that it was just a big scrum where anyone fights anyone is absurd. I want to add as a tiny aside, you may want to try to pronounce the term hoplite a little more as the Greeks do. It ends up sounding more like Op-lee-tees (singular), or Op-lee-tai (plural). Not a real criticism, as your English pronunciation is perfectly fine, but with your knack for languages, you can probably inform a lot of people as to its native pronunciation. :D translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=el&text=Hoplite&op=translate
I find it interesting that, regardless of time and place in history, 30kg seems to be the most common average for soldier kit. Consistency speaks wonders.
I do have to seriously THANK YOU and Shad - as you two have cleared up a lot of misconceptions I have had about The Middle Ages, and other Ancient civilisations(Why does spell check say either an S or a Z). Love your videos, always learn something from you, keep up the great work.
Civilisation is the UK-ENG version. Civilization is the US-ENG version. Like Armour/Armor and Colour/Colour, the US-ENG variant was popularised as an effort to reduce the complexity of the English language. Some of those changes stuck and became part of American English, others did not.
I mostly agree with the premise of the article. With all the problems in the modern day, still more people than ever have a good quality of life. So I would not want to go back in time and leave all the amenities of modern life.
It's not unusual, in modern times, for someone moving to a foreign culture to experience proper mental illness from the sheer culture shock and trying to absorb and work in a different modern culture. Just recently I talked to an African teacher who moved to China to teach primary school children. He was absolutely stunned when students, little children were thrilled to bring plastic toy guns (or make 'gun fingers') and take turns walking up to his desk and 'shooting him in the head'. Actually, he tells me in Africa, IF that was happening the teacher would promptly shltkick the kid until bruises appeared. You want bruises because the father will want proof you punished the boy with a severe beating. Then the father would slap the shlt out of the boy in front of the school. In China, the African teacher was absolutely traumatized as sneering 7 year old boys would be allowed plastic rifles and handgun toys in the classroom AND smile and cheer as each clicked or shouted 'gunshots' at his head. Blatantly. They will be grinning as they take turns and one tops the other by putting the plastic pistol right into the side of his head and goes 'POP POP POP' even more times than the last boy. When the African teacher, horrified by this, told the staff they smiled and really agreed these Chinese boys are so bold! They are just so full of strength and happiness. Yes, they agreed those boys are too powerful! The African teacher then tried to directly appeal to any fathers and uncles who sneered in laughter. Their attitude was trying to hold back laughter as the foreigner begged them please stop being so strong and powerful. They not-so-secretly beamed with pride. He notes the uncles conceded to hold the boys plastic guns outside the class from then onward. The scared African begged them to stop the strong happy boys from beating him. If you can see how he expected he was going somewhere to be respected or at the very least he'd do some good and maybe some kids will look up to him. If nothing else some parents will side with him for trying. Instead, he wakes up to a horrible realization that he is, as far as his mind can comprehend, a toy for cruel children to smash. This, it seemed to me, is why he's become a cynical drinker, caring for nothing, he barely gets dressed, makes no effort, barely arrives at the job anymore and to me, I can see he's sliding into mental illness. Most of us, if we suddenly time-traveled to ancient Greece would, I believe, we'd become mad in a matter of weeks. We'd collapse into full-blown mental insanity. We would not be able to digest, to behold, to integrate the social, moral, spiritual, emotional everything, our brains would crack, our hearts would collapse.
Never forget, we’ve been using electricity for 150 years. We are in no position to say anything about any culture. What we have can be gone as fast as it came. Empires have lasted far longer than we have thus far.
Deaths from WW1 & WW2 alone amounted to about 70 million people with an additional 20 million caused by famine & disease directly related to to these wars. By comparison the world population during the Helenic period of Greece would have totaled to only 150-200 million. By comparison, the loses from those two devastating 20th century wars alone would have wiped out 45% to 60% of the world's population during the time of ancient greece.
7 kg to a hardcore healthy man is nothing to carry with one hand, today you can ask a soldier, a gymnast or even someone who lift weights, troops then had their training s well
I'm a backpacker, although not like the newb "knapsackers" Everywhere I go I carry a survival kit of about 10 lbs. My main pack varies but typical weight is over 50 lbs. It can be up to 70 lbs, but not often. Basically, less than 1/3 of male lean body weight is a light load. Up to half of lean body weight is a medium (sustainment) load, and a heavy load is more than half body weight (i.e. over 80 pounds for a lean 160 pound man). It's also not uncommon for a warfighter to carry a load in excess of his body weight, but it's not advised, especially for any distance movement. What gets me is that heavy load carriage was not even my forte during my grunt years, but I now carry 2x the load of peak health "hikers" half my age and many of them end up with more foot and other maladies than me. Humans are still physically the same as the past imo, but perceived abilities, and willingness to apply effort especially, have mostly degraded. At least the few (very few) dedicated athletes out there still demonstrate what can be done.
I had my face aggressively rubbed in Greek myth for five months straight, across multiple classes, in High School. I transferred schools after that first semester (before they could move on to Roman myth) and only took away from it the impression that my bonafide 1960s-Hippy teachers were just head over heals for it all because it was SO kinky. Since kink is now the cultural gold-standard of modern, self-imagined-to-be-sophisticated, academic pop-culture, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was actually less true about Ancient Greece than it was presented to me, but rather just creeps projecting their own values, namely refinement and intellect, coupled with their own shocking fetishes, namely obsession with the sexual power-play theme in "Antigone", onto conveniently dead and mostly-forgotten prominent historical scenes. 🤔 Exactly like just painting a ludicrously idealized self-portrait and then calling it a window to another place in another time. I'm still pretty new to your channel, and have been hoping you can lend me some fresh perspective to help me finally recover from the disgust toward the topics of the ancient Greek and Roman cultures for going on 19 years now. 🥴 I ended up developing intense interests in the actual lives, and not just the theological contributions of, the Catholic Saints Augustine and Benedict, who's impressions of the real live Roman, specifically academic, culture of their era seemed remarkably parallel to my personal impressions in school---in Arizona, USA. Until I learn more, most expectedly from your channel, my private working theory is that the decline of Rome was actually born in its schools much earlier than whenever the accepted tipping-point is said to have been. After all, it took about 19 years for this particular flavor of ludicrous cerebral-utopian delusion about Ancient Greece to percolate into the mainstream and then find me again, full circle around the world in the wilds of the internet. I hardly think that mythology-intensive school curriculum was unique to where I happened to attend; meaning I wouldn't be surprised if my entire generation was mass misled, which now we're the ones echoing only half-baked, or one-quarter baked, preferentially distorting the ancient echoes even further. 🤔
Ancient Greece is a large area and a vast period of time; there are plenty of places you could go in your TARDIS that would not land you amid a war, or a plague. People had time to cut stone statues. Newsflash! That times a long time to do and you don't do it when you are down with a Plague or dodging Scythian arrows. There were long tracts of peach without plague where they had time for art, poetry, music, astrology, etc. They were also as human then as we are now. They argued about politics, the price of wheat, the quality of their wine, etc. Some folk were religious and made offerings to the gods on a regular basis while others were more or less atheists who gave just enough lip service to the gods as to not get lynched. I'm with Metatron, though, Ancient Greece wouldn't be my first stop :)
Nope. That's Simon's line from "today I found out.' "The past was the worst." Anything, seen in the Hollywood shows, would only have been 'fun' if you was Rich. Or an aristocrat. However, that really does sum up life with people in general... The past would have been fun, if I was Rich or an aristocrat. If I was born a Rockefeller, my life would be fun and great....
Again - have to add - I was one who fell for all the hype around the Spartans - but if you think about it for more than 5 mins(and I admit, I didn't for years, until it was pointed out to me) - If the were so good, why didn't they conquer all the other Greek states - the Spartans got all the PR today, but Athens and other Greek states regularly went to war with and held their own - so they would at least have to match the skill level of the Spartans or they would of been over run and beaten. Or is that another misconception I picked up over the years?
10:42 do we know why they put a metal crest on the helmet? I mean, it is additional weight, so if there is no advantage of having it, why then add weight to ur armour and create a disadvantage?
@@oz_jones yes, a ceremonial helmet would make sense. But is it? I dont know how the samurai helmets were designed. But I doubt that their crest was from metal.
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SUBTITLES , PLEASE!
please please do a video Samnite (gladiator type) i am absolutely fascinated with gladiators and real history
please please do a video Samnite (gladiator type) i am absolutely fascinated with gladiators and real history
Can you do a piece on the life of a average slave in Rome vs Athens/Thebes/Corinth (your choice)
(If the differences are measurable that is)
Thanks Metatronyt
please please do a video Samnite (gladiator type) i am absolutely fascinated with gladiators and real history
Good thing you made this video, I saw the title just as I was getting ready to turn on my time machine and go back to try and annoy Socrates by asking him endless questions.
Better disguise yourself as a boys
Just like Bill and Ted. Philosophise with him dude😂😂😂
most excellent
He would've just asked you a bunch of counter-questions.
Tiktok it or it never happened
Can you imagine people from 1000 years in the future finding this articles and saying "people from the 2000's didn't understand the past." What a good example we're leaving to the next generations. Good video as always, mate.
They will probably conclude that there was an obvious propagandistic agenda portraying the past as such.
It's a cycle that has existed for a while, every future generation likes to believe they have become greater than the last and will look down on the past.
Articles are about the worst source of information about us lmao.
More like "People from 2000's didn't wash their hands, and there even were medical campaigns to teach people that hygiene is an important thing, as evident by the great 2019 virus plague." Because people never seem to understand the past and are prone to believe the craziest things about it.
Historian method changed many times in the past. At the beginning, until 1700, they only read annals and chronicles, which were written almost every time in cities, so they completely underestimated what happened outside. Then archaeology come and changed everything, then genomics, statistics, applied economics, and so on. So history you had at school still says middle age was a terrible age, while the amount of skeletons from this age, with evidence of starving, are much less than the ones in the roman period, which is seen as a golden age. The myth of the horrible, dark Middle Ages comes from enlightenment, to prove that without enlightenment nothing can be achieved. Such historian can't explain renaissance, which they kind of ignore or diminish, because of ideology. To add more disaster, in many high schools the teacher of history is never a historian, more commonly is history and philosophy (they believe ideas make history) or worst, teachers of literature, which is even worse, since they take for good whatever a romance says. For example, this is why in the UK people thinks that Romeo and Juliet story was plausible in Italy.Shakespeare took inspiration from several Italian sources, and added many things which were not true, neither plausible. Cappelletti (not Capuleti) were not a Verona's family, and since Cappelletti were guelph, while Montecchi were against, this would have been the political reason, not the blood. If the problem was only blood, more likely they would have been ally, meaning Romeo and Juliet were more likely to get FORCED to marry, to bind the two families. (If only Cappelletti were living in Verona, I mean). Of course, if you are into English literature, you think this is pure history, while the whole story was circulating (quite different thou) during Dante's time. Why? Because this is what a literature teacher is supposed to do. So, pop history is mostly the result of bad teachers, and obsolete research methods.
Nothing would stop me from at least visiting any era of Ancient Greece if I could. I am currently learning both the Modern and Ancient Greek language.
Even Greece during the Ottoman occupation would be interesting.
Some people can't sleep at night because they are up concerned and confused that some people don't want to be sheltered and pampered all the time, and would rather face risks and challenges once in a while. Thinking it is any of their business how other people want to live.
Good thing you're enthusiastic, because your vulnerability to diseases 2.5K years removed from what our immune systems are equipped to deal with would most certainly mean you're not coming back from that, so enjoy your stay for however long it manages to last.
NIKA!
@@leonardomarquesbellini If you are a descendent of people who lived through those plagues, you will have inherited their immune system adaptations. 2500 years is not very much time when speaking about evolutionary adaptations.
Curse you for not making this video sooner! I just came back from Ancient Greece and it was a nightmare, I was in Athens and I asked some weird bearded guy called Socrates or something if he knew where I can charge my phone and instead of answering me like a normal person je started to question my motives for wanting to charge my phone by using bizzare comparisons with sailors, soldiers and somehow even managed to bring in the need for censoring Homer into the conversation. This went on for two hours, I finnaly ran away after he began talking about the moral qualities of rocks. Ancient Greece must be a hallucination, don't go there!
The fact you understood him shows that Ancient Greeks were americans!!!!!!
tbf, I don't think the ancient Greeks could stand him either, considering how it all turned out
@@helvete_ingres4717 It was less that he was an enemy of the people and more that he was an enemy of the _wrong_ people who had political power. Athens was not a state free of corruption.
Also Socrates totally wanted to die. He was given an easy out during his trial but instead he intentionally sabotaged his defence so that he would go down in history as the philosopher killed for his beliefs. He did it for his legacy and that's why we remember him and not all the other philosophers of the same time.
This made me think of Bill and Ted
I've found that a lot of people have bizarre views of history like we've degraded from back in the day because they simply don't know stuff. When The Passion of the Christ came out, my friend, who I met when we both got our PoliSci degrees, said it affected her because "How could people in the past do that to others?" I had this wtf moment in my head like "You-you mean you _didn't know_ about all the messed-up sh*t that people did historically? What?" How do you make it through a political science degree _without_ learning this stuff?
Ahaha, yes exactly. So many people have no clue. Personally I like to bring up everything I know about tribal warfare.
@@nelus7276 I mean you can be affected by a movie like The Passion of Christ about the hedonistic nature of men and still be aware that historically men have created misery for other men and women for as long as humans have existed.
@@sarahalderman3126 women also did awful and inhumane things so let's not typecast our comments.
@@sarahalderman3126 The women deserved it! Have you even lived with a woman before? They are unbearable! LOL
Unlike political science, political engineering actually exists.
Your friend is clueless by design.
I distinctly recall in my classics class that Ancient Greece was basically a long set of brutal wars with gentle sprinkling of slightly less brutal wars.
Well most history classes mostly focus on war and battles so that’s not surprising.
@@findingbeautyinthepain8965 If not for the Art of war, World history would be 12 page comic book. They teach children not to settle their differences with threats and violence, yet the most refined successful mature adults of the world rely upon settling their differences through violence and threats
@@godetonter4764 What exactly is your point here though?
Yes, psychopaths tend to climb quickly through political and financial power hierarchies, because of their lack of empathy and often narcissistic worldview that allows them to cruelly carve their way to corrupt and predatory positions whose structure has itself been built over generations by similar people.
How does this delegitimize how people are taught in schools not to choose violence first and foremost? The vast majority of people aren't psychopaths, and therefore generally wish to avoid said violence, in order to protect the people around them and actually make life liveable without constant fear of violence. Is that such a hard concept to grasp?
And I'd hardly call most of these individuals "refined". It's easy to surround yourself with wealth when you've stolen that wealth from the unfortunate and enslave your nation so you can eat fancy meals with equally self-absorbed individuals. I think you are confusing actual intellectual refinement with sheer hedonistic narcissism and sadistic pleasure-seeking.
Mate you need a reality check, and probably a brain scan too, you might be a psychopath yourself.
@@godetonter4764 That’s so true! I remember thinking I hated history until my early 20’s because we only learned Military history in school. I remember being super interested in learning about the full truth of slavery, and all we learned was when it started, when it ended, and that it was bad, despite half my class being wealthy black girls with elite parents. (I mention the black students’ economic station, because the elites are usually catered to.) It wasn’t until I did my own research on every day people’s real lives when I realized I love history.
@@godetonter4764 That's a bit of a simpleminded Nietzschean view of things. The "most refined, successful, mature adults of the world" make a lot of effort to avoid conflict, and to mitigate its destructiveness when it does happen. Warrior cults are parasitic on civilization, and the more educated versions that some places had in history were mostly due to a lack of economic development. Smart, driven people today can get ahead in life without being malicious to others.
Can we take a moment to just appreciate the exasperating torture this man puts himself through so that we don't have to?
I appreciate it. He doesn't say "educate yourself". He educates us.
All this effort to debunk an article probably made by an AI
Secretly, he loves it. :)
I empathize with his frustration *so much!* He handles it better than I do; the "filthy middle ages" fallacy ( at like, only 1:16 into the vid) would have sent me pacing and flailing my arms, clutching at my forehead, and beseeching the heavens for divine strength, or wisdom, or retribution, or something, anything!
I get enough of that on a daily basis as it is, dealing with adults who seem unable to comprehend even the simplest concepts. Like "when it rains, things get wet" (exaggerated for humourous effect, but not by much).
I can't envision a world where I would willingly subject myself to such horrors. Just the thought makes me want to curl up in the fetal position
I have, so I appreciate his work.
Great video as always. Now, my usual nitpicking: as far as I know, the shield was called the “aspis”, and the term “hoplon” referred to the gear as a whole. The “Hoplite” would be “the equipped one” and the term “panoply” derives from what they called “full gear”(helmet, cuirass, shield and greaves), as “pan”=“whole” or “all”. Please correct me if I am mistaken. 😉
As a greek who has been following and enjoying your channel for quite some years now, i just want to say thank you, Raffaello.
As a Spaniard, whoever wrote this article is a malaka re.
@@edstar83 💀
@@edstar83 I have noticed that the spanish-speaking😃 people who live in Greece are the only ones who can easily learn and speak greek correctly with perfect accent as well. On the other hand, this is almost impossible when it comes to people from slavic-speaking😝 or germanic-speaking🤪 countries regardless of how many years they live here.
What is strange about this article is that they don't mention the most obvious: democracy in Athens was only for free men. You wouldn't want to be a slave or a woman in ancient Athens. As a woman, you were beter off in Sparta. As a slave, it didn't matter.
It did matter tho, slaves weren't hunted for sport everywhere.
Only spartan women....if you werent spartan but the middle class or slave you had no rights. Sparta was not 300.
@@BladeValant546 but as Frans stated, you had more rights as a woman in sparta, than in Athens
middel class in sparta, who do you think build the weapons and armor for the Spartans, cause the Spartans werent working the forges, those werent spartans, but they still had rights
Sure, life for women in ancient Greece was a bit more like life for them in a modern Arabic country, i.e it wasn’t so bad. The biggest threat, as always before the age of anti-biotics, was childbirth with a mortality of something like 15%.
Democracy in Athens was managed by people who had skin in the game. Random homeless peoples who understood nothing about the political climate were not permitted a vote for good reason. Even in the modern Internet days people don't know who or what they're looking for.
I usually can't stand debunk videos, but this is actuallt quite good. You don't only have knowledge, but also a sense of proportion most youtubers lack. Thank You
just the fact they got aesthetic temples and statues and shitz like that literally EVERYWHERE, even in villages, it just makes me wanna go back then and live there
"great thinkers were allowed to just think"
Except when they were being executed for what they thought lol.
As a Greek the title freaked me out! Luckily i watched through all of it and was laughing by the end. Thank you Metatron for pointing out the uniformed. Keep up the excellent work you are doing and never stop being a Rome fanboy.
Don't worry. He didn't mention all the appalling stuff they did.
Simply as a woman i wouldnt want to live in any other age
Wonderful video, thanks. Let's not forget Herodotus who basically went around gathering stories and tales and legends but got so many things wrong that his "history" is mostly just anecdote. Fun reading but not history in the modern sense.
Thank you very much for new video about Ancient Greece !
I think it also depends on the kind of time travel. I would prefer to be able to travel and just witness events as a spectator (and be able to come back to my time) rather than end up in the role of an inhabitant of that time.
I thought that's what we are doing when we watch Metatron videos.
My thought exactly. Observe without interaction. That way I couldn't be blamed for screwing things up! 😂
"You had to buy your own gear."
As opposed to modern Russia or Afghanistan where the government does buy you gear but then sells it on the black market instead of giving it to you, and you need to raid the local hiking store for equipment.
Just found this channel the other day and I am hooked! Glad to see someone as fascinated and knowledgeable about history as I am. You just got a new sub Mr. Metatron 😎👍
When I use my Seer’s abilities and peer into Ancient Greece, I am ASTONISHED to discover EXTRAORDINARILY advanced mechanics, tools, equipments and instruments! Almost like those of the 20th century…
Whether or not a time has been good to live in does depend on when and where, but also on who you may have been.
Unfortunately I know some people in my country who actually tried to pray covid away. For quite a lot of them this didn't ended well.
Another thing that “filters” what we know about the past is that war tends to leave a lot more records, and physical evidence drawing more attention then finding more evidence. And tends to be more interesting for reenacting or producing as far as movies go. The lives of your average ancient person has not gotten the proper attention.
For me, first stop in the Time Machine is Minoan Crete. I really need to know what the hey was going on. ✌️💕🌻
Seconded.
I recommend pocking up a copy of the sewage system in Byzantium by Konstantinos Kantakouzenos. (This isn't actually a real book it's a reference to an old sitcom show we had here in Greece.)
Damn, there go my weekend plans.
If I could time travel I would definitely go forward to check if there's any chance for progress at all.
I love how you use actual images and facts to disprove these articles
"now on watch mojo: top 10 reasons medieval age was rough."
Now on infographics show:
Top 10 strongest armies on Medieval Age.
This makes me want to go back and LIVE in Ancient Greece
Current us army combat load is 47 lbs... 70 lbs+ seems so absurd. Thank you!
So the 'lambda' on a Spartan shield meant nothing at all, eh?
It told the enemy to take the L
Whoever wrote that article is ignorant. Period. That's why we have the noblest of the noble ones, here, battling ignorance on a daily basis. 😁
Aqueducts even can be found in Ancient Egypt before Hellenistic era
Thank you for existing!!!!!
I’d love to time travel with the Metatron! He’d regal me with endless tales of historical cheek clapping near and far!! It would be the best because the Metatron is the best!!!!
I love how the website meant to help us learn, is not even sure about their own words. Like did the article not do research before posting it? Yeah I can see why this one was picked for debunking.
My guess is that they are on a tight schedule and have to put articles out as fast as possible or something. But who knows :)
Good point, that is possible. Beside that. Have a good rest of your day.
Being a woman, I’m not that great on going back in time for most places
Its ok. Just tell them you identify as a man. I think theyll understand
There is a book called Hipocrates Writings. It is a small book which is a collection of surviving medical knowledge attributed to Hipocrates, including the oath. There is section in the book dedicated to lungs disease. As a doctor, I can testify that it is a scientific article without any mysticism and ahead of its time by more than 2,000 years.
We know that doctors in antiquity performed neurosurgical, kidney and eye surgeries.
I have tried to treat my own illness with ancient remedies and result was better than treatment with modern medicine. What ancien medicine lacked was technology. Medicine, like other science, can only be at the level of general development of other science and technology. Yet, medicine in antiquity was slightly ahead of many other scientific developments.
Great video and breakdown of the article.
Just returned from my Time Warp Travel and visit with Aristoxenus to discuss the popular Greek musical hits of his age. It was way cool. Aristoxenus is one hip dude. 😂
He is a mean drunk though. Otherwise cool.
@@oz_jones even drunk he’s more interesting than most of the modern personalities today.
Thanks, metabro. Close one. I just had my time machine adjusted to ancient greek when I stumbled upon your video. Dodged a bullet.
In 1888, the first modern commercial deodorant, Mum, was developed .......................for anyone who thinking of time traveling to the ancient past
Plenty of people do not use deodorant. Especially if it contains aluminum. In any case, people will use perfume or salt. They might have smelled, but so do modern humans based on how many chemical products we use.
@@blacktigerpaw1 Sadly, I experience this evil multiple times a week. Go to the gym only to be driven out of certain exercise areas due to an inconsiderate offensive jerk not wearing deodorant. Eye watering filthy goat smell. USE DEODERANT YA ANIMALS.
@@BooDamnHoo Glad you wash your ass, buddy.
@@blacktigerpaw1 Everyone is. And not just my ass. The stench from these people isn't their ass in any case. It's their nasty armpits.
"... it was a society conducive to allowing some of the world's greatest thinkers to just think."
Socrates: "Am I a joke to you?"
Yeah, modern armor is pretty heavy (especially if you have a full plate kit), but not unbearably so.
it becomes too much when combined with other field gear. batteries, water, food, extra clothes and the weight of misc equipment required for your mission adds up fast.
@@MrDeadlysirius yes. Yes it does
I mean lets be honest. If you took your average modern day schlub and transported him back in time like in some bad Japanese isekai novel. Realistically he'd either die or be a slave for the rest of his days, because that's just how ancient greeks and the ancient world in general, rolled.
Or be treated as a lunatic.
@@julietfischer5056 Skallagrim did a whole video about why travel to the middle ages would probably suck. I'm sure it would be doubly so for Ancient Greece.
Depends on if you have useful skills or not (and if you magically get their language or can learn it at all).
If you are a medic of any qualification, an engineer, or a chemistry teacher, for example, you'll likely do well. Basically, practical knowledge would have you set up well.
@@J_Warral And if you were a man. Because the Ancient Greeks had pretty strict gender roles.
@@tommyfishhouse8050 eh. It was a bit more complex than that. Metic (non-citizen free) women could hold more rights (like financial operations and even court representation) than citizen-women in Athens.
It is a rather complex matter, but let's just say that Ancient Greeks didn't limit their women in rights because of belief in their inferiority, but because they viewed rights in a different light than us, modern people (right to vote or be a part of legal system was seen as more of a burden before community, rather than a benefit).
I could recommend Sarah Pomeroy's "Goddesses, Whores, Wives, and Slaves: Women in Classical Antiquity" as a foundational study into the matter of women's rights in the Antiquity.
P.S. But to answer your question, if an educated woman happens to time-travel to Athens, she has a pretty good chance of becoming one of the most famous Hetaira - perhaps even a better decision than being free, Metic owner of a business enterprise of some kind.
To be fair I don't think their is a single pre modern city or empire that would remotely seem humane to our modern sensibility. Although if they make a literal time machine I'm sure we will have replicator and translation implants so I'd give it a go
"They weren't pooping in the streets."
Well, there was Diogenes, but he was a professional troll.
People WERE pooping in the streets in ancient Greece. Sadly, Cretan flushing toilets were not being used in Greece either.
Another thing about the deadly cosmetics thing that I find funny is that, today we have things in our foods, cosmetics, and just about everything else that is killing us slowly and we don't even realise it... today, this is happening as we speak lol
Agreed! Have you ever eaten in a Jersey diner?
Hello Metatron. So the authors should hoplite back to where they started from?
It sort of made me think how my Greek friend at university was shocked that I knew about Greek history. Despite the local students appearing to her as uncouth Yorkshire barbarians, one of us had a mum from Italy, as were many of my neighbours, mostly from the "Greek" south, as she pointed out. She was amazed that I knew what triremes were and that I could read Greek words, until I pointed out we were both science graduates and used the letters all the time. Mind you she did give me a good shield design idea, of a snake coiled round a stick. I could see she was getting a bit bored though, when I started going on about Spartan film depictions having the wrong shaped helmet.
Actually, "bad things in cosmetics" we had much later, with radioactive substances in cosmetics in the 1950s or so …
From your perspective here and now. Too many creature comforts here and now. We are all soft in this age. We owe it to ourselves to strive to be more like them. We cannot go back. But we can do better. They were better.
Nice vid there sir. Assumptions...though some might say that when dealing with the past, especially the distant past, there is a certain level of inherent assumption.
IMO they stuck the landing with saying ancient greeks "probably" weren't defecating in the streets. I would think your chances of encountering a street turd would pretty quickly hit non-zero the closer you got to Diogenes.
My commanding officer informed our Cp “ you need to be more Spartan “
I informed him “ I will not share my nettles with a young boy no matter how cold I got”
This did not go without punishment.
Loved the doggie!!!!❤
Firstly, comparing a kinda specific place/region of any time period to a large time period without a specific location is worse than comparing apples to oranges. It's like comparing a wheat field to winter, senseless.
I am so impressed with your work! ... so gladly I subscribe. You have a great way to engage people in history. What you are doing is very important. Thank you.😅
Ancient Greeks realized it was difficult for all elible citizens to be present to vote for reasons, such as sickness, etc. Romans, studying Greek history, improved the situation in their Republic court system divided between patricians, and also plebians, representing common citizens?
Thanks for the upload.
Thought I feel that, you missed the point of the topic.
Ancient greece vs Modern era, developed countries.
Great video!
Former modern soldier here!
I served from 2008-2012 and here is my equipment:
Platecarrier: 10 kg
cloths, helmet, boots: like 5kg
MG3: 11kg
G36: 3,5 kg
Ammunition: 5 kg
backpack with stuff; 5-10 kg (20-30 if you go out for several days)
so you see, you have to carry around like 30-50 kg depends on mission
have a nice day
If anyone thinks that there's no poop in modern city streets, try going near a tent city.
You said you were about to tell us how much the hoplite gear weighted XD
Well, I'd like to record the lost plays of Sophocles, Aescalus, Aristophanes, Euripides, and Menander, the lost writings of Aristotle, record Socrates' asstual lectures and conversations, snf the Parthenon being built, and the red figure and black figue pottery being made.
Well that is one less place to time travel, now i just have to wait for my time travel powers.....
Troy for me every time, I found a horse shaped amazon parcel at the gate so helpfully dragged it into the city
Another good one, your videos always are , great cadence.
If I were dumped into Ancient Greece I would probably find myself wandering around unable to figure out what to do. Now thing is that if I am in a city they "probably" already had a system set in place for foreigners that found themselves abandon and trying to live on the street which is to say I am probably going to be an unpaid servant working 12 hours a day for a loaf of stale bread and a bunk bed. I know this is how it worked in other areas of the world at that time period. If you get dropped in what we might call hillbilly territory once they figure out you are an abandon foreigner that is homeless they would probably just enslave you. But your experience depends largely on what community you find yourself in. If you are really lucky you might find yourself working for an educated person who wants to know more about this foreigner that speaks a language totally unknown to them and would get you out of hard manual labor for an hour or two a day.
You should do a video from the perspective of a futurist citizen considering time traveling to the present.
Nice video . I am glad you exposed the article and how these people write this stuff really are wrong on what they are telling people. Good work on part for exposing this. Glad to listen to you and what you had to say.
Since I was little I’ve helped my dad with his job, it’s an odd one where he delivers miss placed airport bags and delivers them to an address listened on the passengers file. Since I really started helping carry them(around 12 or so) we’ve had to deliver military bags and oh my God they’re heavy when I was younger my dad didn’t even let me near them when he was loading them in recent years I’ve been able to help him by lifting a side to now where I can pick them up and I still can’t pick up the men’s bags 😂 those fvvckers weigh more than I do and I’m a big girl ok
Article should be: If you have a fridge, PC, TV, a health insurance and other modern commodities, you probably wouldn't want to live 70 years ago and beyond. The end.
Aspis is the more accurate term to use for the shield, Metatron. Hoplon/Hopla (plural)/Hoplite derive from the term to mean arms/men-at-arms (or armed man, really). So Hoplon is a generic term that could mean any armament of war.
Indeed, around 13-15-ish pounds is a very likely guesstimate of the historical range of weight for an aspis. :)
And oh yes, this article is horrendous. No doubt about that. Good corrections throughout!
The assumption that battlefield identification needs to be as blatant as red versus blue is a modernism that totally ignores the historical reality of hoplite battlefield tactics and the situation in-situ.
So, firstly, a phalanx wasn't just an enormous mass of people told to gather in one spot, it was created by smaller units called lochoi (singular, lochos), which themselves were usually divided by tribal affiliation. Hoplites themselves were originally the absolute cream of the crop elites of the society in the Archaic period, but toward the Classical were more of a broad upper classmen. In any case, they would probably recognize the other influential or wealthy men of their own tribes. The type of episema (symbols) used on the shields would likely have a strong tribal or polis-based influence, or could be entirely personal, but it's likely that you'd know at least a lot of the men in your own lochos.
After that sort of general grouping, the phalanx itself was organized by files of men. This was usually 8-12 ranks deep. So another reason you were unlikely to become disorganized or confused is that you're basically "in line", following behind the man in front, and the man behind you is doing the same. When the actual battle went down, it really was, generally, as simple as go forward and meet the opposite line, and beat them back. Friendly fire incidents absolutely did occur, and in some cases the episema was changed to be the specific symbol or even abbreviation of a particular city-state to make it less likely, but the hollywood idea that it was just a big scrum where anyone fights anyone is absurd.
I want to add as a tiny aside, you may want to try to pronounce the term hoplite a little more as the Greeks do. It ends up sounding more like Op-lee-tees (singular), or Op-lee-tai (plural). Not a real criticism, as your English pronunciation is perfectly fine, but with your knack for languages, you can probably inform a lot of people as to its native pronunciation. :D
translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=el&text=Hoplite&op=translate
I find it interesting that, regardless of time and place in history, 30kg seems to be the most common average for soldier kit. Consistency speaks wonders.
Modern equipment for Soldiers is not light, hence so many lower extremity and back problems of most Soldiers.
Cracked, man, I haven't heard or thought about them in ages. Didn't they collapse and disappear?
I do have to seriously THANK YOU and Shad - as you two have cleared up a lot of misconceptions I have had about The Middle Ages, and other Ancient civilisations(Why does spell check say either an S or a Z). Love your videos, always learn something from you, keep up the great work.
Civilisation is the UK-ENG version.
Civilization is the US-ENG version.
Like Armour/Armor and Colour/Colour, the US-ENG variant was popularised as an effort to reduce the complexity of the English language.
Some of those changes stuck and became part of American English, others did not.
Because the Tuscan original was _civilizzare,_ into the French _civiliser,_ and Noah Webster reverted American English to the Italian, civilize.
I mostly agree with the premise of the article. With all the problems in the modern day, still more people than ever have a good quality of life.
So I would not want to go back in time and leave all the amenities of modern life.
It's not unusual, in modern times, for someone moving to a foreign culture to experience proper mental illness from the sheer culture shock and trying to absorb and work in a different modern culture. Just recently I talked to an African teacher who moved to China to teach primary school children. He was absolutely stunned when students, little children were thrilled to bring plastic toy guns (or make 'gun fingers') and take turns walking up to his desk and 'shooting him in the head'. Actually, he tells me in Africa, IF that was happening the teacher would promptly shltkick the kid until bruises appeared. You want bruises because the father will want proof you punished the boy with a severe beating. Then the father would slap the shlt out of the boy in front of the school.
In China, the African teacher was absolutely traumatized as sneering 7 year old boys would be allowed plastic rifles and handgun toys in the classroom AND smile and cheer as each clicked or shouted 'gunshots' at his head.
Blatantly. They will be grinning as they take turns and one tops the other by putting the plastic pistol right into the side of his head and goes 'POP POP POP' even more times than the last boy.
When the African teacher, horrified by this, told the staff they smiled and really agreed these Chinese boys are so bold! They are just so full of strength and happiness. Yes, they agreed those boys are too powerful!
The African teacher then tried to directly appeal to any fathers and uncles who sneered in laughter. Their attitude was trying to hold back laughter as the foreigner begged them please stop being so strong and powerful.
They not-so-secretly beamed with pride. He notes the uncles conceded to hold the boys plastic guns outside the class from then onward. The scared African begged them to stop the strong happy boys from beating him.
If you can see how he expected he was going somewhere to be respected or at the very least he'd do some good and maybe some kids will look up to him. If nothing else some parents will side with him for trying.
Instead, he wakes up to a horrible realization that he is, as far as his mind can comprehend, a toy for cruel children to smash.
This, it seemed to me, is why he's become a cynical drinker, caring for nothing, he barely gets dressed, makes no effort, barely arrives at the job anymore and to me, I can see he's sliding into mental illness.
Most of us, if we suddenly time-traveled to ancient Greece would, I believe, we'd become mad in a matter of weeks. We'd collapse into full-blown mental insanity. We would not be able to digest, to behold, to integrate the social, moral, spiritual, emotional everything, our brains would crack, our hearts would collapse.
Recent news has Chinese archeologists claim to have found an ancient flushing toilet from 2400 years ago. Who didn't appreciate smart plumbing?
When it was unearthed, had someone left the water running ?? :D
Never forget, we’ve been using electricity for 150 years. We are in no position to say anything about any culture. What we have can be gone as fast as it came. Empires have lasted far longer than we have thus far.
Ahh Shad. Great channel imo
To many people get there information from these type of articles, its quite frustrating
14:15 we are still using very toxic stuff practically daily. Teflon or tefal are two examples
Deaths from WW1 & WW2 alone amounted to about 70 million people with an additional 20 million caused by famine & disease directly related to to these wars. By comparison the world population during the Helenic period of Greece would have totaled to only 150-200 million. By comparison, the loses from those two devastating 20th century wars alone would have wiped out 45% to 60% of the world's population during the time of ancient greece.
7 kg to a hardcore healthy man is nothing to carry with one hand, today you can ask a soldier, a gymnast or even someone who lift weights, troops then had their training s well
I'm a backpacker, although not like the newb "knapsackers"
Everywhere I go I carry a survival kit of about 10 lbs. My main pack varies but typical weight is over 50 lbs. It can be up to 70 lbs, but not often.
Basically, less than 1/3 of male lean body weight is a light load. Up to half of lean body weight is a medium (sustainment) load, and a heavy load is more than half body weight (i.e. over 80 pounds for a lean 160 pound man).
It's also not uncommon for a warfighter to carry a load in excess of his body weight, but it's not advised, especially for any distance movement.
What gets me is that heavy load carriage was not even my forte during my grunt years, but I now carry 2x the load of peak health "hikers" half my age and many of them end up with more foot and other maladies than me.
Humans are still physically the same as the past imo, but perceived abilities, and willingness to apply effort especially, have mostly degraded.
At least the few (very few) dedicated athletes out there still demonstrate what can be done.
As far as equipment load- ask anyone who has been a soldier. We all know.
But what if the other flushing toilets instead of being int he bathrooms were actually in the streets?
I had my face aggressively rubbed in Greek myth for five months straight, across multiple classes, in High School. I transferred schools after that first semester (before they could move on to Roman myth) and only took away from it the impression that my bonafide 1960s-Hippy teachers were just head over heals for it all because it was SO kinky. Since kink is now the cultural gold-standard of modern, self-imagined-to-be-sophisticated, academic pop-culture, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was actually less true about Ancient Greece than it was presented to me, but rather just creeps projecting their own values, namely refinement and intellect, coupled with their own shocking fetishes, namely obsession with the sexual power-play theme in "Antigone", onto conveniently dead and mostly-forgotten prominent historical scenes. 🤔 Exactly like just painting a ludicrously idealized self-portrait and then calling it a window to another place in another time.
I'm still pretty new to your channel, and have been hoping you can lend me some fresh perspective to help me finally recover from the disgust toward the topics of the ancient Greek and Roman cultures for going on 19 years now. 🥴 I ended up developing intense interests in the actual lives, and not just the theological contributions of, the Catholic Saints Augustine and Benedict, who's impressions of the real live Roman, specifically academic, culture of their era seemed remarkably parallel to my personal impressions in school---in Arizona, USA.
Until I learn more, most expectedly from your channel, my private working theory is that the decline of Rome was actually born in its schools much earlier than whenever the accepted tipping-point is said to have been.
After all, it took about 19 years for this particular flavor of ludicrous cerebral-utopian delusion about Ancient Greece to percolate into the mainstream and then find me again, full circle around the world in the wilds of the internet. I hardly think that mythology-intensive school curriculum was unique to where I happened to attend; meaning I wouldn't be surprised if my entire generation was mass misled, which now we're the ones echoing only half-baked, or one-quarter baked, preferentially distorting the ancient echoes even further. 🤔
Ancient Greece is a large area and a vast period of time; there are plenty of places you could go in your TARDIS that would not land you amid a war, or a plague. People had time to cut stone statues. Newsflash! That times a long time to do and you don't do it when you are down with a Plague or dodging Scythian arrows. There were long tracts of peach without plague where they had time for art, poetry, music, astrology, etc. They were also as human then as we are now. They argued about politics, the price of wheat, the quality of their wine, etc. Some folk were religious and made offerings to the gods on a regular basis while others were more or less atheists who gave just enough lip service to the gods as to not get lynched.
I'm with Metatron, though, Ancient Greece wouldn't be my first stop :)
Nope. That's Simon's line from "today I found out.'
"The past was the worst."
Anything, seen in the Hollywood shows, would only have been 'fun' if you was Rich. Or an aristocrat.
However, that really does sum up life with people in general...
The past would have been fun, if I was Rich or an aristocrat.
If I was born a Rockefeller, my life would be fun and great....
😂that montage was hilarious 😂
Again - have to add - I was one who fell for all the hype around the Spartans - but if you think about it for more than 5 mins(and I admit, I didn't for years, until it was pointed out to me) - If the were so good, why didn't they conquer all the other Greek states - the Spartans got all the PR today, but Athens and other Greek states regularly went to war with and held their own - so they would at least have to match the skill level of the Spartans or they would of been over run and beaten.
Or is that another misconception I picked up over the years?
10:42 do we know why they put a metal crest on the helmet? I mean, it is additional weight, so if there is no advantage of having it, why then add weight to ur armour and create a disadvantage?
Im assuming the crested helmets are either for parades and or officers. Note how the Samurai also had very intricate crests on their helmets.
@@oz_jones yes, a ceremonial helmet would make sense. But is it?
I dont know how the samurai helmets were designed. But I doubt that their crest was from metal.
For the intimidation factor.
If I traveled to those times, would I infect them with harmful viruses I carry and vice versa?