You're using reference wrongly
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2020
- A small guide on how to use reference in art. The most important thing with finding reference is to know how to get the most out of a reference image. Whether it be for reference or studying.
CHROMA MOMA is
KENN: / meanhouseart | / meanhouseart
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Reference is not copying
yeah I know but still.
reference is not copying
Copying is not theft
It is what it is
Say what now ?
Mhm
I think what he is trying to explain to us is that reference is not copying.
Yeah I think that could be it...🤔😂
I see. Thanks for pointing it out!!
I feel this sense of accomplishment when I draw from imagination 😢 I do still study from references but reproducing from imagination feels satisfying
КиСаНьКа_ГаФ Hem let me explain his point;
So basically,
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That’s all for me.
Maybe, we don't know
Yeah, I managed to avoid this mindset very early on lol. I originally wanted to draw from my head, but then I quickly realised that I don't know HOW to draw anything. It takes references to build a visual library, and it's becoming increasingly important for me to study the fundamentals. Every time I get "stuck" on a drawing, I look for what went wrong, and this is actually the hard part as a self-taught person.
I started learning a week ago. This is very helpful. Thanks for sharing.
Any more tips for a self-taught?
@@SeagullIV there's many I could give, but lately I found that it's important to find a balance between practice and just drawing what you like.
If you do too much of one or the other, you will either burnout quick or end up drawing only the what's comfortable to you and improve very little.
I feel like you can balance it in 2 ways. Firstly, you can separate your practice from your doodling. Secondly, which is the way I do it, draw what you're interested in but make it a learning experience. You will have to really analyse your drawings but I think that's part of the fun personally.
Oh, and remember that it's ok to NOT draw. You DON'T have to draw every day, especially if it's burning you out.
@@BigDomski Because it hasn't been that long since I have started, I can't say what works for me with confidence yet. Your insight is greatly appreciated though.
For practice, I started with drawabox. It was fun and I saw improvement at first but I am a little stuck with the 250 box challenge.
Drawing for fun did help offset the frustration a little at first but I haven't been able to draw for the past couple of days. This has made me question my ability to learn tbh. It is so early on that it kinda makes the doubt worse.
You saying I don't have to draw every day does help though. I have lost my job and am in the process of moving to another city for new work so that also plays a part in all of this probably. I guess I shouldn't feel like I am wasting time if I am not actively drawing around the clock. The process will be slower though :(
@@SeagullIV @Ibo Nader @Ibo Nader I'm actually going through drawabox myself! I couldn't really follow when I was starting out, so I'm doing it now. It was just too much for me in the beginning, but if you're understanding the concepts and know why they are getting you to practice the things they do, then you'll be ok.
I quit my job 2 months ago and I'm still looking, so I get the feeling. I felt like this for a time too, but neither of us are gonna get super good in a few months. I struggle with being patient as well, but recently I've been reminding myself of why I started in the first place. This helps me out in the worst of times.
I've been drawing for just over a year, but became really consistent only around 3 months ago. I'm figuring out what works for me still, just like you. Again, I feel like the trick to this is to not put pressure on ourselves to constantly improve/improve really fast. I feel like I improve the most when I enjoy the process of learning, and grinding just takes this away from me.
@@BigDomski Yeah drawabox can be overwhelming but it is very comprehensive and covers all the fundamentals very well. Good luck to us both.
The biggest problem is that we don't know what is going to happen in the world, right? All we can do is hope for the best. Hang in there man.
I agree that we need to have fun in order to take everything in. That is why schools fail in my opinion. They just force education and make it boring which in turn makes children filter out everything the teachers say.
Failing isn't fun but if we could trick our brains into thinking what we will be capable of, we will have the will to go through the process.
refusing to use references is like fragile masculinity for art
truuuu
Refusing to use references after years of work with reference is just a symbol of growth. Ps: big example, Kim Jung gi
So fragile pride because some do it too.
@@sossos125 There is no level of mastery where reference ceases to be value. No artist knows everything. As you get better you will be able to do better and better without reference, certainly, but having reference is pretty much always superior.
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
the intro is everything hahahaha
You said it ...
That part got my like already
XD!
Asian Ethan Becker xD
Why doesn't the TH-cam algorithm love him already he deserves so many more subs
It got to me just now)
I just realized I'm watching his videos without subbing, sorry for leeching :D
I just found this and I already subscribed the moment he said "reference is not copying"
"say I wanna draw a mech... And I do." lmao amazing
I would love to hear your thoughts on building a visual library!
I will say I'M DEPENDENT on references, and it seems overwhelming to freehand the video was very helpful
The Mona Lisa is considered one of the best works of art and it is literally based on a reference
Say it louder for the ones at the back! Using reference as help is key to growth, but it's hard to find the balance between using it as a guide vs relying on it too much. Thanks for covering these topics which are, weirdly enough, not talked about a lot on YT and social media in general :)
yeah the balance is crucial i think
James Gurney's book Imaginative Realism is full of great advice on using reference effectively and creatively - good research and planning is as much an art fundamental as anatomy, perspective etc. I think it's also worth "reverse engineering" the stuff that inspires you, and figure out what references those designers used... and then go to those references as your primary sources!
that's a great idea! thank you
@@getoulover You're welcome - have fun 👍
CHROMA MOMA! As somebody who is getting back into drawing and painting I really resonate with your channel and love what you’re putting out. Thanks for the inspiration man! One thing for me is that for some reason, whenever I see a finished piece from great established artists, I automatically assume that they didn’t use reference to produce it when in reality they most likely did. I definitely need to change how I view this as it can get pretty discouraging haha
shout out frm PHILIPPINES bro, been binge watching all your vids, and i became really motivated in all my arts❤️💪
Almost all people have a phone today. Taking photos and with a split second it appears on a monitor. No mirror's needed. And you can go right in to a app and edit it. It's so powerful and very useful. We get colours, perspective and what not doing so. We can even build a scene using LEGO. Why not even go to a racetrack, a zoo and capture the moments in slow motion with 120hz is amazing and useful too. Espacially to see what happens before and after. Everything tells a story even it is a static illustration that is made.
Other than that i would recommend to go to the library. There are endless of books. Everything from human anatomy to airplane engines. You can even get a lesson by reading the text on each page and get a understanding without having pictures in motion. When you read it you get knowledge, and you can talk about it when you present your work. Or as i like to do is to not trying to describe in words but using illustrations.
Take a sign as an example. Everyone knows within a millisecond what different roadsigns mean. They do not have words, only symbols. They add the most information for the driver to react if they have the eyes on the road. That to me is quite incredible how we read symbols and why silhouette matters.
When you do all this you build a visual library. Don't just look on what you see and draw, try to understand the subject. It's the things that makes painting fun if you ask me.
Sorry for my bad english, but i hope it is readable.
ur english is so good, i assumed you were a native speaker until the last line
honestly I thought you were an english speaker until you apoligised for your english :/
I was obsessed during my first five years of drawing with not using references partially because ego and partially because I was afraid that if I couldn't replicate my drawing without ANYTHING but my brain, then my skills didn't exist. I (silently) believed references did equate to copying, but that was a standard I only applied to myself. When I was starting, I think I was more concerned with expressing myself through "my own" style, but that turned out to be very, VERY limiting. It's a challenging mindset to break but it's sooo artistically freeing, and I think it comes from not automatically knowing how to use tools to study. Learning to use references has been a whole process of its own to me! Love the way you describe the distinction between looking and understanding! I can't believe I just found your channel now!!
Finding your channel was truly a gift, I am quite thankful, the timing was perfect ✨
wow, I think I'm in analysis paralysis. I'd never even thought about it before this video, but now i feel like I have a little more permission to just go ahead without the research being perfectly rigorous. thank you sm for this video i love your channel!!
What's that quote? Perfect is the enemy of good?
At some point the research has to stop. You will never be perfect. You will always be ignorant. You will always err.
Putting in more work will never get you a perfect result. The more work you do, the less valuable each additional bit of work is. The first hour is more productive than the second, the second more than the third, etc. Diminishing returns.
As I started drawing I didn't really care about the fact that I was tracing since I was new. Then after having a LITTLE bit of experience (like 4-5 months), I saw everyone online saying that references are bad and you are a bad artist if you use one.
Now I am a more experienced one (still not professional) like 1.8 years I think, and references are good to use, I use references a lot to draw poses, hands, feet, even clothes or shoes, that doesn't mean you're bad at art it means you're taking ideas
I saw you use that card as a straight edge and I can’t believe I’ve never thought of that. You have enlightened me
after 10 seconds into this video, i subbed to this channel.
I remember back in grade 5/6ish, I wanted to join the school art club and it was actually mostly run by students, so they would have to let you join. I remember after I joined, I showed them some off my stuff and and they said it was impressive but the second I said I used reference, they said it wasn't good and that using reference doesn't make you learn. :/
I believed them for a long time as they were older than me and I really regret that.
This is great. I had the naive attitude of not using reference until fairly recently, and all your videos have helped me hugely on my drawing adventures ✌️
"Yeah can tell you didn't use a refence because that pose is all messed up and that doesn'tnt even look like a real FOOT" 😂😂😂
I was looking for your channel all day man. Glad you poped up in my recommendations. Subscribing.
"not using reference seems to be pushed by a'lot of non artists"
*cough* Solar Sands *cough*
I think the dude provides a lot of actually insightful criticism for people who may be entering the art community without any knowledge on accepted qualities and stuff u should avoid
He does actually draw
Russu Came not that well
@@dubudubudan but he does, he's not professional but he does know the basics
Really? Maybe in his old videos but he seems to grow away from that now.
Hey just wanted to thank you for the work you do and the videos you upload here, I'm currently working on a portfolio and watching and listening to your videos have been really helpful and informative so thanks! Keep doing what you do!
Great video! I am trying to improve my art and these videos really help to gain art knowledge and practice! Thanks!
You deserve WAY more subs. This content is literally lifesaving.
It's so true how you mentioned not using refs is some kind of point of pride for people bc every older person I've shown my art to always assumes I didn't 'copy' something or look wt anything when I did it. It seems like a lot of people think being a good artist means lpknowing exactly what everything in the world looks like and being able to replicate it perfectly
I don't remember who convinced me years ago that using reference is "cheating", but I hate them 😂
I can't try drawing new ideas without references, otherwise I'll keep drawing the same thing over and over again 🙃
I used to brag about not using a reference because when I WOULD use a reference non-artist kids at school would constantly ask me, "did you look at an image to draw this?" or "omg did you do this w/out reference" and I'd be like, "no, cause then I wouldn't know how to draw that thing..." and they'd go from impressed to mildly interested. I got the idea that my art wasn't cool if I didn't make some creative super cool brain blast piece. Now, I use references as a base point while also creating my own poses and ideas. Did I use a reference? Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but I wouldn't be where I am today without em'.
This video came at the perfect timing! Thank you for being my favorite person on TH-cam!
Your channel is criminally underrated. Keep it up!!!🤘
i started watching your videos a few weeks ago and you have quickly become one of my favorite youtubers. your videos are well edited, the content is really, really helpful. I've become super excited for everyone one of your new uploads.
same :)
This needs to be shared for every artist
This chanell will definitely blow up, your content and work is great
i love watching your channel, i’m a teen aspiring comic artist and i’ve always loved drawing and creating, but i took a really long “break” in drawing for like three years and i got back into drawing several months ago. during those three years i only wrote stories and barely drew, just a few sketches here and there. your videos do help me, you have very helpful tips and you’re very realistic and honest in your advice and tips. thank you for creating your content, it’s really held my hand as i’ve gotten back into drawing on a daily basis. much love 💗
oh i had a very similar experience!! i didnt draw for quite a few years because i just lacked the energy + creativity but i picked it back up consistently around april ! how are you finding it after so long?? ❤️
hesvdkye i’m finding it a little hard to stick to a daily routine of drawing even if it’s just a tiny sketch, but at least i’m being productive in writing. so far i’ve developed my own personal style in character designing and i’m fairly proud of it :) thanks for your interest, i hope things go smoothly for you as well 💕
Honestly man, you're the best.
References are also good when you want to draw and paint the right way. I made the mistake of not using references and unfortunaly didn't get better at drawing. But now I do😪. It was because of my ego by the way. I wanted to think of myself as a "unique" artist. 😅
Good point!
I love how short and to the point your videos are! Other channels like to insert too much fluff into their videos but not you :)
this was an incredibly helpful video! :) thank you, chroma
THANK U,, IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR SO LONG
your editing is awesome
Dude we need to get you the recognition you deserve
I always suggest pinterest for good references, because if I look up something like "mouth reference" on google I always get freaky pictures of diseased teeth.... but pinterest has a lot more art-y things and you can compile them if you want to use them again later. I did this in an art class and my professor actually commented how good my references were lol
I'm sorry but I just can't use pinterest because it's obnoxious and convoluted.
@@LOC-Ness lol, that's perfectly valid. It's just the thing that works for me, especially the fact that I can save images without having to store them in my camera roll. If you've got other methods, by all means go with what work for you!
THIS CHANNEL IS GOING TO BLOW UP!! I know it, I feel it, Such good wisdom!!
love ur videos, there's so much work and art in them ...Amazing 💚please keep going 🥺💕
Thank you so much!!
Younger artist here, I noticed your point about why most of us tend to be really proud of a piece that we made without using reference, and I guess its a mark of passage of sorts. We feel really proud of it because "hey, here's this somewhat decent looking piece of art I drew using only the information, skills and techniques I've acquired while venturing this path of improvement. I drew using just the materials that I have saved in my brain!" (If that makes any sense).
Well I'm not sure if that's it for other people but I know for certain that's how it is for me.
Yes, and that's a mistaken priority.
As artists get better they will need reference less to create decent looking art, and new artists see competent artists able to create good looking things without reference and take that as a mark of skill. In so doing, however, they devalue the actual work itself. Using reference does not make something you make lesser than if you did not use reference.
Hi cool video
thank you for this, I take great comfort in knowing i'm not a fraud or something just because I use a reference :3
Sometimes i only need one aspect from an image, like a control panel, a character's posture, how a type of clothing hangs or folds. I have had someone tell me that i did something without reference when i have my references out in front of me. I will point to them and they will say "but you didn't copy anything there."
"yes," i will say " i just referenced them." then sometimes, they get it. Reference isn't copying, it is examining something to understand it and render it better.
Exactly References not copying It's either by inspiration Are you wanna make your artwork look better Or turn that picture or reference into something different.
Great Vid, Please make more videos, I enjoy your content very much and you art style
This was a really helpful video! I can't believe I'm writing this out loud but I think I have a small crush on you :3
I stopped using reference a couple months ago, cause I was feeling a bit suffocated. I would always end up following the reference exactly and just end up getting a study.
While I definitely did start letting my creativity flow a lot more since I stopped using it, and I don't regret it at all, glad I did actually, I know reference is important and it helps to correctly draw things, adding real components to things that don't exist, and a whole lot more.
I'm really struggling to even want to pick up reference again because of the sour taste I was left with but I think now more than ever, because I'm so much more confident in my own knowledge, and in my own ability to create something accurate from my mind that I probably won't rely on the reference as heavily anymore causing the issues of creating boring study-like drawings.
In short yes reference is good, but my venture using no reference and also exploring new types of fashion and clothing and items I could use in my art helped me to get better at creating things rather than recreating things. Now I can get back to using reference with more confidence in my ability to create my own designs.
Don't be afraid to try something new, sometimes it works, sometimes it won't but you'll never know if you don't try it
hey you have good content. Your advice about setting up hotkeys(fbuttons) sped up my workflow tons. Thanks!
Thank you for sharing this!
Easily the best art youtuber by far
this is a very good video. i use a manga book from dbz cooler movie when i want to draw sth and i need the colours or the looks of stuff. when i go out for a walk i take pictures and redraw them. studying is probably one of my favourite parts of drawing. comming to understand the object.
Wonderful video I've been trying to get people to understand this.
Not using reference has helped me finish things, but that had more to do with getting over tutorial mental blocks than personal pride.
So inspiring so informative. Liked it....thank you
So useful omg
Amazing Thanks Your My Fav Artist TH-cam ❤️
thank u for making this video :)
yess awesome advice
Yes! Preach it!
Why did I not discover this channel earlier damn.
This is a pretty good video
Excuse me, why does this guy not have at least a million subs?
The function of referencing an object is to learn how it works in space, and in 2 dimensions, and then learn to transform from there into your own style, or format.
The metamorphosis of learning what an object looks like, to learning how to draw something, to then learning to draw something on your own, starts at the similar, goes to the different, and can become the strange.
You can reference a work of art, proper credit given to whomever is being referanced please, and then learn from what they drew to draw on your own,
Thanks!
Preach it dude!
I know copying is really bad because well many artist thinks that copying something or someone is really bad. But did you guys not realize that’s how many artist from the past did. In order to get better and understand things is not just by looking and observing from real life but also but copying other artist. And as you copying others and as you develop that art style you can change the way the artist makes their art to a different style and make that your own. To be honest with you, you can’t say copying is bad because if you think about it how do artist get better and develop new techniques for any medium by copying and developing that technique into something different and new. And if you think about how other materials were made and develop (any kind) is by copying and changing it into something more greater. Why do you think our lives now is easier then it was in the past bc of technology. It was copied by other old tech and made it better and easier for us.
So bassicly it's like copying your friends homework.
I grew up being told "did you copy that or did you make that yourself? " So i just learned not to use reference i think it looks good enough
_I don't have porn addiction, I'm just expanding the reference library in my mind_
YOU WON'T STOP I'M GONNA COPYING AGAIN AND AGAIN AHHAHHHAA
He speaks truth, TRUTH I tell you!!!
That was lit
nice sketch, man. wanna ask what name is the tool that you use with yellow ink?
Searching for reference is my favourite procrastination technique
What kind of markers are you using when you color in your videos?
Your English is great man
One thing for you to consider in this idea is that many beginning artists don't know how important reference is and they are being confused or fooled by video tutorials on the topic that either dont even show the reference image or the entire video only shows their work and no references giving the impression that there is none. This is a trick that tutors use so that we can't see how poorly they are representing the subject. Humans try to fool humans way too much.
Damnn the way u draw is 👏👏👏
Woahhhh!
I dont really think that using references is copying, and none of the people around me think like that. HOWEVER, i sometimes want to draw without references to see that the hours of practice i put didn't just go to waste😅
I'm starting to get into art as I need to make a cover for my book, and I'm too broke to pay someone to make a cover for my book so I thought I could do it myself. Had to go online and look at a bunch of photos of angel wings and fire since that's want I wanted for my book cover, went and save the pictures and distorted the image to the shape that I wanted to before tracing over it before finally adding my own little touches and adjustments. I know that tracing over an image isn't really making your own art but I was just trying to get the basic shape since I didn't know how to make good looking fire or good looking wings, and like I said, I added my own little touches and adjustments so that they aren't complete trace overs of the image
Maybe you can break it down into shapes, because tracing a pose just gets a stiff shape.
plot twist: Chroma used a reference to make this video
♥️
thanks
It's sad how most of the myths of art like "digital art and manga art isn't real art" "realism is the supreme art style " "reference is bad" usually comes from non artists
Like using a Vaseline for reference to make a cool starship
My reference back then when i was in junior highschool/middle school was my memory and real things because we didn't have internet back then;-;
what brand of pen is that it looks sick
Not only artists but other people do this too :’) like, I draw something and to praise me some people would go "oh you drew this without any reference right??😯 you’re so good” …and I’m like…no, but still, that’s not the point 😂
Mech is the scariest thing for me
This might be a silly question but what is the best way to research before concepting designs? What are your methods before you start your projects?
Yes
I like references, im just lazy to find it. As well as im trying really hard to find something specific, and id never find it! Haha. So a lot of my work is very loose, but im working on not being so lazy. (Hence why i bought a sketchbook for this (covid) schoolyear).