@@jaydenharrison1436it was… fine gameplay. Just nothing was cool about it. Maps weren’t cool. First person animations weren’t cool. Weapon designs weren’t cool. Characters for sure weren’t cool. Sound design wasn’t cool. On and on. At best most things were serviceable, and there were no bugs/everything was polished on release. But if your game is just serviceable, at best you can hope for a middling reception. If your game is just serviceable and you have actively uncool characters… yeah..
The freak fuckers who bamboozled those Sony VPs on thinking that shit was going to be good and invest all that money... There's no way they are still alive, right? 😂💀
Jounros: nooooooo it's false, you're not an exec, you're an earthling, you don't know anything you couldn't have known if and why it'd fail⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⠔⠒⠒⠒⠒⠒⠢⠤⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠑⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠃⠀⢠⠂⠀⠀⠘⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢤⡀⢂⠀⢨⠀⢀⡠⠈⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢀⡖⠒⠶⠤⠭⢽⣟⣗⠲⠖⠺⣖⣴⣆⡤⠤⠤⠼⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠘⣺⡟⢻⠻⡆⠀⡏⠀⡸⣿⢿⢞⠄⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢣⡀⠤⡀⡀⡔⠉⣏⡿⠛⠓⠊⠁⠀⢎⠛⡗⡗⢳⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⠀⠨⡇⠃⠀⢻⠁⡔⢡⠒⢀⠀⠀⡅⢹⣿⢨⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠠⢼⠀⠀⡎⡜⠒⢀⠭⡖⡤⢭⣱⢸⢙⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠸⢁⡀⠿⠈⠂⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⡍⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⢢⣫⢀⠘⣿⣿⡿⠏⣼⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⠊⠀⣀⠎⠁⠀⠀⠀⠙⠳⢴⡦⡴⢶⣞⣁⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠐⠒⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⠀⢀⠤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠀
@@jesselee9223 you don’t need hindsight powers to look at an off putting color palette, bad character designs, boring map layouts with no personality and a lack of anything to set it apart from other hero shooters PLUS a $40 price tag to see this game was going to be a flop.
Sony had to have been blind, I remember a gamescom trailer earlier this year when they showed the trailer for concord and the live chat was filled with "could be interesting" and "might check out" and then they showed a dev interview right after and the second one of them said "5v5 competitive shooter" the live chat was flooded with "NOPE" and "SKIP" lol
They should make a documentary of this game. that'll generate more revenue than the dam cutscenes and multifaceted entertainment future they thought the game would have.
I don't understand how they thought concord would be their star wars, when they already have Destiny in their pocket, that has way more potential for a Star Wars like franchise
It boggles the mind how Destiny STILL doesn’t have cross-media presence. Where is the animated series, the live-action film (if they insist on pissing away their investors’ money), the graphic novels even? There are so many stories you could tell with the Destiny IP, and now that the game’s playerbase is shrinking again and morale is at an all-time low, it seems they have missed their chance.
Bungie's biggest fumble is still their current one, destiny could have and should have been better and everything coming to light shows that it really was a people problem. Vocal majority(people complained then got passified by some shiny new $20 update containing an exotic) and shit leads. If I am wrong, then none of this bad air surrounding bungie would exist to this extent because I remember people loved the bungie that made halo _not the bungie that exists now_
Toxic positivity is such a horrible thing. BUT, if you call it out, you're told "stop being so miserable" or something like that. It's a facade of acceptance and productivity to fuel the egos of those in charge. You can't be happy and positive all the time, and if someone or something is trying to seem that way, it is a MASSIVE red flag. Either for personality in people, or goals for projects.
Toxic Positivity is a cancer on creativity. Design whether it is artistic, gameplay, or whatever is an iterative process. Sticky to one choice without criticism and analysis may work sometimes. But 9/10 you just get a half-asses project that could have been better.
Assuming the one dude is saying the truth that there was stuff not allowing for internal conversation on design critiques, that's wild. You don't need an MFA to tell why a lot of the character designs for Concord just doesn't work in terms of scale, color scheme and other key factors that can be important for a team based game. Humans follow patterns and semblance of order and again when you have a cooperative team game, it generally helps to have the characters have some uniform in their design so you can discern who's who and does what, see Overwatch for example, there's a whole cast of zany characters but everybody looks like they belong in the same world and have just the right amount of color palette to be flashy but not just barfed up randomness. I think Concord tried to make every character look like the most over the top Star Wars extra as a manner of standing out and distinction, and it just ends up making a lot of the characters look way too overdesigned and jumbled. Sometimes when you're drawing or painting something, knowing when to stop and when something is good enough and really doesn't need more work is important, and if nobody was able to speak up on that, that's a shame.
@@tsl_7 it isn't even about a positive outlook on bad affairs, situations or moments, it's about the denial of bad, denial of reality. It's taking your diagnosis from Dr. Redditor, everyone has lying eyes.
@@OptimusGrime85 I seriously doubt anything could top it. I mean, the game was making so little money it was literally better to close it and refund everyone!
@DPH_Psychosis the real issue with ET wasn't so much how badly it sold, it's how many copies they made of the game. For whatever reason they made more copies of the game than there were ataris that were sold. The game actually sold fairly well considering, but all those copies that didn't sell end up in a literal landfill in New Mexico. If we didn't live in a digital age, we'd see copies of Concord end up in that same landfill.
No it couldn't. It had nothing going for it. Same as Destiny pve, but it also had no pvp to bridge the gap between waiting on potentially better pve dlcs. It was dead on arrival. I was playing both invite only alphas, and the open beta. Anthem didn't change once during any time gap between alphas and the beta. Same buggy glitches and thin gameplay and story even during launch. When companies refuse to make quality products and "intentionally underdevelope" (Bungies own mantra and words during a public GDC), the results are what we have now. A watered down dying Destiny, a dead Anthem and a dead Concord. You can't half-ass development and expect greatness.
The difference is, anthem truly could have been a massive success had they fully committed to it, the foundation for greatness was in anthem. It most definitely was not in concord, it just never would of gotten to the level they internally believed it would.
@@SlCKNESS_I said foundation, flight alone could of made it massive, had they expanded combat and such as well as had more involved and compelling story definitely it could of been a success. Concord just felt soulless honestly, sure the gameplay itself was alright but everything else felt hollow when I played it.
Who is more stupid? The scammer? Or the scammed? Cuz allegedly Sony saw the state of the game as said “Fuck it, add another $200m on top of the $200m we already put it AND buy the developers on top of it.”
Bungie is not crap. You’re watching this video because you’ve played Destiny at some point which you did because they are good game devs. Sure they fuck up but be real.
Studios out there taking shortcuts; trying to make the 'next big thing' via market research and pure brute-force spending, instead of making something worthy of being a big thing. Some of the best games of our lives came from teams as small as a single person on a shoestring budget. Having money is important, but it cannot replace or impede devs who are passionate about what they make.
Very underrated comment. This is central to the s**t that’s going on at the moment. Games have to be driven by the geeks .. not the suits. Crude characterisation, but you know what I mean.
It is very likely that, given the background of the studio, Bungie's advisors wisely opted to recuse themselves from that particular situation. If you quit your job because you have issues with how your boss runs things, and later your old boss comes to your new job and says the job you're working now is going to fail in 2 years, you'd just assume they were bullshitting because they were mad about you leaving, right? Bungie had negative reason to meet with Firewalk, and every reason to decline to comment.
$400 Million is nearly an unfathomable amount of money. That's nearly 4x the amount of money it took to make BG3, if I recall correctly. How the fuck did this go so wrong.
They could've made God of war Ragnarok twice with what they paid for this game. Hell spiderman 2 was 300 million. I guarantee they wanted this to succeed so badly to try to force their inclusion down our throats and I'm sure this garbage was riddled with micro transactions. They wanted that consistent money flow.
pretty sure that the creative lead of concord was the same guy that broke all health regen perks in destiny 1 and gave us the double primary system in d2. great purchase, sony.
The wildest thing is the $400 mil doesnt even factor in the purchase of the studio. So they were all in for prolly closer to $600 million at the low end.
I don't think Jim Ryan had the power to spend money at will, Phil Spencer had a hard time during the Xbox one era because it didn't have the approval from Microsoft to spend on Big deals, fortunately Microsoft board of directors and satia nadela realize gaming is very profitable and open microsofts pockets for gaming.
You really haven't followed shit with how terrible of a company bungie is have you..... please remain quite your right to an opinion is clearly gods mistake.
This is what is wrong with people today, everyone is sooo worried about hurting anyone's feelings that they out themselves out of a job by keeping quiet even when you know the product is shit... i wonder how many " i told you so's" happened when the game failed.
It comes from a society in its end stage and comes from a dictionary definition of a privileged nation that compared to many have no real harsh issues to worry about
That's not how game development works. I'm sure people voiced their concerns, but when your boss tells you "No, you're wrong. I know better. Keep doing it my way." all you can say is "okay, boss" and either quit or keep working.
Companies are desperate to get on the live service bandwagon years after it passed by. Jimquisition said there are several hundred live service games currently in production, meaning hundreds of games competing in a genre designed for each game to take up 100% of a player's spare time, attention and money. I'm sure they'll all find an audience instead of lining up to be the next Anthem. The most laughable part is that games like Concord are designed to be completely risk-averse, taking no chances of doing anything that might keep it from being a guaranteed moneymaker... much like all other forms of modern entertainment. Games like Concord or Anthem are made by a risk assessment committee, games like Undertale or The Forever Winter are made by people who had an idea for a game.
Very well said. I had the exact same thoughts. These big games are made by committee with no soul or direction… and players see and feel it right away. Non-gamers do not have that sense.
The fact that nobody said anything about the game during its development is a masterclass on how to suppress feedback and how to become the next dictator of the world.
Ever have that boss that believes they’re God’s gift to the earth and that their opinion or method is objectively the best no matter what, here’s the result
I work in software dev and see shit like this every day, albeit obviously not with a $400 million price tag. People too entrenched in their own opinions and ideas, with a team of Yes Men following them up and silencing all legitimate issues. It drives the good devs to other teams, the good leaders to other companies, and saddles whoever is left with the shit nobody wants. You hate to see it.
I have a feeling that Marathon is gonna flop as well. Not as hard as Concord, but I think it’ll flop nonetheless and be either a killing blow or a major hit to Bungie.
@@euphorya777 High as a kite if you think no one will play the destiny mobile game. Mobile market is largest gaming market by a country mile, and its being developed by a company that has a long and successful history in said market. Hell it will bring in more revenue then the main destiny game.
Anyone that was around and paid attention, ex-Bungie devs Josh Hamrick and Jon Weisnewski were the main driving force behind the terrible late D1 weapon balancing (bloom, shit HC performance), and the vanilla D2 sandbox experience (not a coincidence D2 sandbox started improving IMMEDIATELY after they left). So is it really surprising they cooked up a boring ass game?
The studio that made Concord apparently put all their money into selling their brand to Playstation. Kinda the same overselling thing bungie did to get bought by Playstation.
Laura Fryer called it immediately after shutdown in her "Culture killed Concord", where she gave old examples and explained role of the feedback and iteration in game making.
This happens when there is no outside quality control, everyone is a yes man, and no one is there for something they want to create but something they feel like will sell.
This game had so many failure points I honestly don’t know where to start. My main question is “what was the target audience”? Is a game that tried something new by copying a hero shooter where the hero’s don’t look like hero’s… DEI or not this project had some serious flaws and needs to be studied by other company’s to avoid the same/similar fall offs.
Keep covering gaming news please, your personal takes / hot-takes on most of the issues usually mirror my own and I enjoy watching. Been subscribed for a few years now.
Huge difference between this and anthem, anthem was actually fun and a good game it just had no content... To this day i still feel it could have become a great game, and the work those devs made in such a short time is amazing.
Anthem started with one fundamental mistake: "Hey, Bioware, you have to make a game that's nothing like what your studio is good at!" and then snowballed from there. Concord looks to have been constructed entirely of fundamental mistakes.
I'm gonna keep saying this until it becomes ingrained into everyone's skulls: NOTHING IS TOO BIG TO FAIL. EVER. PERIOD. And if you ever assume things are too big to fail, life is gonna humble you. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it'll happen when you least expect it.
This idea of "toxic positivity" is so important. I hope that devs (and anyone with this mentality, for that matter) learn their lesson from this astronomical waste of money.
Anthem had so much potential and was looking forward to the overhaul they announced like 2 years later right before they just scrapped the whole thing.
This sounds like a Theranos type situation. This stuff happens all the time in the corporate world. A startup has an idea, they pump investor money into it, it’s not working but they have good sales people who sell it to a bigger corporation and then it falls apart. The only winners here are any people that had stock options in the team before it sold.
I’ve been in game dev for many years and even though some of his info sounds legit the emphasize on outsourcing and mvp as something out of the ordinary and that would cause a red flag isn’t. A couple of things to know, almost ALL big games use outsourcing that’s pretty much normal, and they are used quite extensively. The bigger studios have their own internal outsourcing, I believe Sony has one. I worked for one AAA title and our outsourcing staff was 2/3 of our own. It allowed the studio to move the budget around.. why? It had so much to do with taxes, bonuses and other bean counter things that make studio execs happy. Anyway, the thing with mvp is not surprising as mvp is in many ways a pre-alpha stage, something on paper you could ship, so of course it’s to no surprise that it was not mvp status, otherwise why need Sony. They needed Sony to get the game to MVP. The question act why Sony went with these guys is simple. A lot of these companies are NOT run by gamers, so they don’t know a great game from a poor game, what they do is what ALL these execs do, they are looking at the team and their track record and they evaluate the potential based on what’s going on in the market. This is where they bet wrong and many VC bets fail. I’m more curious what made them dbl and triple their bet, because I bet hit were ppl signaling this was not going to pan out, who up high made the actual call to keep funding this money pit of a game.
It balloons fast when you have an inept leader that hires a bunch of SVPs (only slightly more competent than the inept leader) to solve the problems the leader doesn't know how to fix.
Idk actually but I used sealed ahamkara grasps a lot because it was actually decent back then even those it still just reloaded your guns on me less hit I think. But I’m pretty sure back then they didn’t have marksman dodge or really a lot of reload perks back then. They need to update and buff them in D2. I feel a they look way to cool to just reload guns. Like rework it to where uncharged melees now have a special claw attack that slashes and cause a tick damage that can stack 3 times on a single target so it’s good for multiple types of enemies. And everytime an enemy dies from that melee it absorbs their essence and gives some melee energy back but can also add mores melee charges based on the number of kills you get before it fully recharges and also empowers all charges to be stronger. When you use those powered melee charges you can either use them as normal empowered equipped melee’s or if you hold the melee button you can infuse the claws and do a faster like a 3-4 hit combo matching whatever element type of your super. Like a burst dps of melee damage. Essentially this would make it to where you wouldn’t want to run a too high of a melee recharge build because you want your melee to stay uncharged as long as possible use that bonus while uncharged and to build and reach maximum stacks for whenever it does charge.
Gameplay first then cinematic trailer. Devs who start out with the latter first, assume they’re making a blockbuster movie. What they dream the game would look like, but obviously won’t look like. That’s why when you start of with *not actual gameplay* you’ve already lost me. Cool you made a CGI trailer, go into the movie or animated tv show business then. With the game awards in 2 months, how much of that disclaimer will be there? Just don’t have a trailer if you don’t have gameplay yet, it’s as simple as that
Sony wanted something to show for their purchase and the problem sounds like they didnt have any input with the devs of concord they just threw money at it instead of designers, producers, etc.
Spider-Man being 350 million or whatever doesn't even make sense. 99% of that is probably just for the rights to the game. The entire foundation of the game is already built, its not like they have to design an entirely new map or world.
400 million is such as insane number just from the amount of content the game has. Elden Ring cost 200 million and gives you so much more game for that price. A huge world, hundreds if not thousands of unique models, orchestrated music, voice acting, ect. Concord was just a few pvp maps and a roster of characters with cutscenes and voice acting and some music. There must be something illegitimate going on because the numbers make no sense.
who the freak says soup to nuts LOL. I have NEVER heard that phrase before. I assume its an analogy of start to finish (drinking the soup to urinating it out)
Jak and Daxter, R&C, Sly Cooper, Infamous, etc etc. Sony could’ve put that $400M to any classic PS exclusive, made a good game, and they would’ve doubled what they spent on the game in revenue. Shows what happens when you don’t listen to fans (who are literally the source of your money 🤷)
This sounds exactly like what happened with Final Fantasy XIV before ARR. The NoClip doc showed everything that is being mentioned here. The devs were of the mindset "oh we made great games before, there is no way we fail here. We have an awesome team there is no way we can fail". You had a bunch of devs working on separate things and none of it was guided or connected to one cohesive vision for what the game should be. Now it sounds like instead of Sony letting them launch the game in a buggy unplayable mess like FFXIV did, they dumped a shit ton of extra money into it just to get it to the playable state. This does not bode well, that is an absolutely massive amount of money to dump into a black hole. Sony unironically has actually been having studios put out pretty decent games for awhile. I hope this doesn't start to hurt the other studios that are doing good just because of some headass mentality.
It was also probably supposed to be the poster game for the ps5 pro, and they probably had to scrub all that from trailer and show a bunch of games that are 4 years old lol
Its so weird that so many movie studios and videogame companies want to create the next star wars. I would argue that we are all distracted with so much content these days that we can never create a cultural phenomenon like star wars anymore. It was a different time where we didnt have as much choice and everyone could rally behind something for a period of time to create a phenomenon like star wars. Even matrix that came out 25y ago couldnt become as big as starwars.
hearing that bungie refugees were behind the biggest gaming flop in history is pretty uh pretty bad man i got cope but this is another level of.... im not surprised
We Americans learned the toxic positivity lesson in the 50s and 60s… apparently no one in management read history books… specifically with commercial flight and the space program…
400 million to make a game... The more you spent, the more you will need to get it back to be worthy, what the hell they were thinking. Remember when games were cheaper, that was because they was cheaper to make it too, companies are just investing too much into gaming, which just makes harder to be profitable, after all gamers will need to spent more too and it's not everyone that can spent much into a hobby.
Games were also cheaper to make because they were easier to make. The massive increase in technology costs alot more to develop for. Everything is more complex now. And games were not cheaper either. I remember Nintendo 64 games being near $60 back in 97. I'd have to Google search if there's any ads for old N64 games, but convert for inflation and they were more expensive to buy back then.
@@tinystar3010 Yes, i know, but think about it, what is a "cost"? Money nowadays are nothing but numbers on a screen, its not a precious natural formation like gold or silver, so making a game only costs more now because we said it would, people can change this price any time as it is not something "real". Having said that, of course this would affect the industry as paying less results in less people whiling to work, less companies doing the marketing and less people interested in funding it, its not a simple thing besides my explanation above being quite simple, unfortunately we don't have much choice besides working to gain more
double primary devs
and we genuinely have our awnser 😂 this explains so much
I heard the gameplay was that bad. It was just everything else was lol.
@@jaydenharrison1436it was… fine gameplay. Just nothing was cool about it. Maps weren’t cool. First person animations weren’t cool. Weapon designs weren’t cool. Characters for sure weren’t cool. Sound design wasn’t cool. On and on.
At best most things were serviceable, and there were no bugs/everything was polished on release. But if your game is just serviceable, at best you can hope for a middling reception. If your game is just serviceable and you have actively uncool characters… yeah..
They could have paid me $4 to tell them that it would fail.
The freak fuckers who bamboozled those Sony VPs on thinking that shit was going to be good and invest all that money... There's no way they are still alive, right? 😂💀
Jounros: nooooooo it's false, you're not an exec, you're an earthling, you don't know anything you couldn't have known if and why it'd fail⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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With mega hindsight powers 🤔
@@jesselee9223 you don’t need hindsight powers to look at an off putting color palette, bad character designs, boring map layouts with no personality and a lack of anything to set it apart from other hero shooters PLUS a $40 price tag to see this game was going to be a flop.
Sony had to have been blind, I remember a gamescom trailer earlier this year when they showed the trailer for concord and the live chat was filled with "could be interesting" and "might check out" and then they showed a dev interview right after and the second one of them said "5v5 competitive shooter" the live chat was flooded with "NOPE" and "SKIP" lol
They should make a documentary of this game. that'll generate more revenue than the dam cutscenes and multifaceted entertainment future they thought the game would have.
This gave me the laugh I needed
@Gvmers 👍👍👍👍
I don't understand how they thought concord would be their star wars, when they already have Destiny in their pocket, that has way more potential for a Star Wars like franchise
It boggles the mind how Destiny STILL doesn’t have cross-media presence. Where is the animated series, the live-action film (if they insist on pissing away their investors’ money), the graphic novels even? There are so many stories you could tell with the Destiny IP, and now that the game’s playerbase is shrinking again and morale is at an all-time low, it seems they have missed their chance.
@@LifeWulfI been saying this shit for eight years destiny’s got warhammer levels of potential for media presence
Bungie's biggest fumble is still their current one, destiny could have and should have been better and everything coming to light shows that it really was a people problem.
Vocal majority(people complained then got passified by some shiny new $20 update containing an exotic) and shit leads. If I am wrong, then none of this bad air surrounding bungie would exist to this extent because I remember people loved the bungie that made halo _not the bungie that exists now_
@@Wanabechef No way are they even gonna go Warhammer levels if they cant reach Cyberpunk levels the way they fumble everything
Lol I mean it's true acolyte=concord
Skeletor and Cobra Commander were definitely behind pushing Concord
CORPORATE COMMANDER!
Toxic positivity is such a horrible thing. BUT, if you call it out, you're told "stop being so miserable" or something like that. It's a facade of acceptance and productivity to fuel the egos of those in charge.
You can't be happy and positive all the time, and if someone or something is trying to seem that way, it is a MASSIVE red flag. Either for personality in people, or goals for projects.
Disney marvel and Star Wars has a toxic positivity problem
^^^ bad shit happens all the time indiscriminately and thinking that good attitude will power you through literally anything is just plain naive
Toxic Positivity is a cancer on creativity. Design whether it is artistic, gameplay, or whatever is an iterative process. Sticky to one choice without criticism and analysis may work sometimes. But 9/10 you just get a half-asses project that could have been better.
Assuming the one dude is saying the truth that there was stuff not allowing for internal conversation on design critiques, that's wild. You don't need an MFA to tell why a lot of the character designs for Concord just doesn't work in terms of scale, color scheme and other key factors that can be important for a team based game. Humans follow patterns and semblance of order and again when you have a cooperative team game, it generally helps to have the characters have some uniform in their design so you can discern who's who and does what, see Overwatch for example, there's a whole cast of zany characters but everybody looks like they belong in the same world and have just the right amount of color palette to be flashy but not just barfed up randomness.
I think Concord tried to make every character look like the most over the top Star Wars extra as a manner of standing out and distinction, and it just ends up making a lot of the characters look way too overdesigned and jumbled. Sometimes when you're drawing or painting something, knowing when to stop and when something is good enough and really doesn't need more work is important, and if nobody was able to speak up on that, that's a shame.
@@tsl_7 it isn't even about a positive outlook on bad affairs, situations or moments, it's about the denial of bad, denial of reality. It's taking your diagnosis from Dr. Redditor, everyone has lying eyes.
Legit curious but what the fuck kind of people does Sony have in their Quality Team for green lighting this shit?
You know exactly the kind of people...
The same kind of people who think it’s better to remaster horizon over bloodborne.
@@timr8431 No? I think thats why he asked… I’m curious too
The types that have blue hair and believe in the wage gap.
The ones with pronouns like Destiny's current devs
This shit will be recorded till the ends of time as one of the biggest flop there ever is.
There was a segment on Second Wind's Dev Dive explaining that this will be the modern ET but it failed in the complete opposite reason.
It's only the biggest flop yet.
@@ehoffart529 it's a way bigger of failure than ET.
Way, way worse.
@@OptimusGrime85 I seriously doubt anything could top it.
I mean, the game was making so little money it was literally better to close it and refund everyone!
@DPH_Psychosis the real issue with ET wasn't so much how badly it sold, it's how many copies they made of the game. For whatever reason they made more copies of the game than there were ataris that were sold. The game actually sold fairly well considering, but all those copies that didn't sell end up in a literal landfill in New Mexico. If we didn't live in a digital age, we'd see copies of Concord end up in that same landfill.
man, i wish they sorted Anthem out. It could have been something
Biggest potential that never made it far 😢 I miss it
It was good after a few updates but by then everyone was on the bandwagon so it died.
No it couldn't. It had nothing going for it. Same as Destiny pve, but it also had no pvp to bridge the gap between waiting on potentially better pve dlcs. It was dead on arrival. I was playing both invite only alphas, and the open beta. Anthem didn't change once during any time gap between alphas and the beta. Same buggy glitches and thin gameplay and story even during launch. When companies refuse to make quality products and "intentionally underdevelope" (Bungies own mantra and words during a public GDC), the results are what we have now. A watered down dying Destiny, a dead Anthem and a dead Concord. You can't half-ass development and expect greatness.
Yeah I love how the flight looks, heard it was a tad clunky though
I actually thought anthem was fun when i first played it. Too bad it had no endgame.
The difference is, anthem truly could have been a massive success had they fully committed to it, the foundation for greatness was in anthem. It most definitely was not in concord, it just never would of gotten to the level they internally believed it would.
No, Anthem's gameplay was a bit of a niche.
@@SlCKNESS_I said foundation, flight alone could of made it massive, had they expanded combat and such as well as had more involved and compelling story definitely it could of been a success. Concord just felt soulless honestly, sure the gameplay itself was alright but everything else felt hollow when I played it.
Remider: Concord has ex-Bungie devs. Bungie is so crap its killing Sony from every direction lmao
Are we surprised at all?😂
Who is more stupid? The scammer? Or the scammed? Cuz allegedly Sony saw the state of the game as said “Fuck it, add another $200m on top of the $200m we already put it AND buy the developers on top of it.”
You mean SBI and DEI right? Because thats EXACTLY what happened
@@gectek yes, that too
Bungie is not crap. You’re watching this video because you’ve played Destiny at some point which you did because they are good game devs. Sure they fuck up but be real.
This train wreck cost double what they spent on God of war and more than 4 times what they spent on Ghost of Tsushima
friend, 400 million will get you 1/4 of a b2 stealth bomber.
Studios out there taking shortcuts; trying to make the 'next big thing' via market research and pure brute-force spending, instead of making something worthy of being a big thing.
Some of the best games of our lives came from teams as small as a single person on a shoestring budget. Having money is important, but it cannot replace or impede devs who are passionate about what they make.
That is exactly what this boils down to. I'm so tired of the corporate approach.
Very underrated comment. This is central to the s**t that’s going on at the moment. Games have to be driven by the geeks .. not the suits. Crude characterisation, but you know what I mean.
wasn't bungie supposed to help sony with live service games like Concorde?
It wouldnt surprise me if they did and said it looked great.
Destiny devs helping former Destiny devs 🤣
yes, when you say it like that it makes even more sense lol
It is very likely that, given the background of the studio, Bungie's advisors wisely opted to recuse themselves from that particular situation. If you quit your job because you have issues with how your boss runs things, and later your old boss comes to your new job and says the job you're working now is going to fail in 2 years, you'd just assume they were bullshitting because they were mad about you leaving, right?
Bungie had negative reason to meet with Firewalk, and every reason to decline to comment.
Bungie can't even help themselves. They failed as soon as they left Activision and needed Sony's hand to bail them out.
Sony overpaid for Bungie by at least $2B. It's not a stretch to think they'd sink $400M on some pozzed hero shooter.
$400 Million is nearly an unfathomable amount of money. That's nearly 4x the amount of money it took to make BG3, if I recall correctly. How the fuck did this go so wrong.
Money laundering.
So many things. None of them good.
@@spakentruthBingo.
They could've made God of war Ragnarok twice with what they paid for this game. Hell spiderman 2 was 300 million. I guarantee they wanted this to succeed so badly to try to force their inclusion down our throats and I'm sure this garbage was riddled with micro transactions. They wanted that consistent money flow.
Almost like it’s not true, huh.
pretty sure that the creative lead of concord was the same guy that broke all health regen perks in destiny 1 and gave us the double primary system in d2.
great purchase, sony.
Redfall had 6 times the amount of players on steam… juss let that sink in
This is the biggest insult yet lololol holy shit thats fucked 😂
what's redfall?
@@Peppy318my understanding is that it’s one of Xbox’s biggest flops if I’m correct, I believe it was a left for dead style game about vampires
@@Peppy318a terrible game from Dishonored/Prey devs
Does Cross forget they planned to release weekly cgi updates, a whole anime show , marketing and everything else ontop of the game?
"Planned". That's the keyword.
The wildest thing is the $400 mil doesnt even factor in the purchase of the studio. So they were all in for prolly closer to $600 million at the low end.
don't forget the cost of marketing
@@DeeJay5K yeah, so they could high key be in for close a billion. That’s insane
@@DeeJay5Kthey barely marketed, so its probably low
@cheehee808_ I'm sorry but you're kidding, right?
@@DeeJay5K Marketing is always included in the budget.
"Head in the sand mentality carried over fromo the studio's Bungie roots"
Lol yeah, there's still plenty of that in Bungie 2024 as well
Probably the reason they’re trying to mug everyone off and selling the PS5 Pro for £700 🤦🏻😂 try get some of that money back 😂
I 100% guarantee you that's not the reason for the PS5 Pro's price
Well it’s not for the quadruple A upgrade to graphics or for all the new games coming out for it 😂
@@drsmall4313You really think it is that?
@@heroicxidiot I'm pretty sure he wasn't being serious
@@StevenHarf it wouldn't surprise me if it was serious
No wonder Sony got rid of Jim Ryan. Dude wasted a bunch of money on live service and Bungie
It wasn’t Jim it Hermin baby
I don't think Jim Ryan had the power to spend money at will, Phil Spencer had a hard time during the Xbox one era because it didn't have the approval from Microsoft to spend on Big deals, fortunately Microsoft board of directors and satia nadela realize gaming is very profitable and open microsofts pockets for gaming.
@@usagtone yeah but xbox still have to went through rigorous review. Wonder if Sony have the same scrutiny before acquiring the studios.
What kills me is that theyre on bungies ass for lower profit on destiny 2 but then blow 400mil on this and it flops hard af
For real 😭
You really haven't followed shit with how terrible of a company bungie is have you..... please remain quite your right to an opinion is clearly gods mistake.
@@novusparadium9430 if you're gonna act like an anime edgelord at least spell "quiet" correctly
@@eskaliionspelling mistake, I win
@@novusparadium9430 you typed this shit out and said "yea this looks good". Absolute cornball dork type shit.
"toxic positivity". That just says it all man. People not living in reality
This is what is wrong with people today, everyone is sooo worried about hurting anyone's feelings that they out themselves out of a job by keeping quiet even when you know the product is shit... i wonder how many " i told you so's" happened when the game failed.
It comes from a society in its end stage and comes from a dictionary definition of a privileged nation that compared to many have no real harsh issues to worry about
That's not how game development works. I'm sure people voiced their concerns, but when your boss tells you "No, you're wrong. I know better. Keep doing it my way." all you can say is "okay, boss" and either quit or keep working.
Concord being the next big thing behind the scenes kinda sounds like Bungie having very high hopes for Marathon imo...
I don’t play games to create a 1-off of myself. I play games to just have fun and zone out. FFS just make a good game!
Well the credit screen for Concord is over 1 hour long with thousands of names and companies and that's why they wasted $400 million
Concord is the reason the new PS5 PRO is gonna be $700+ LOL they gotta make their money back some how...
Companies are desperate to get on the live service bandwagon years after it passed by. Jimquisition said there are several hundred live service games currently in production, meaning hundreds of games competing in a genre designed for each game to take up 100% of a player's spare time, attention and money. I'm sure they'll all find an audience instead of lining up to be the next Anthem.
The most laughable part is that games like Concord are designed to be completely risk-averse, taking no chances of doing anything that might keep it from being a guaranteed moneymaker... much like all other forms of modern entertainment. Games like Concord or Anthem are made by a risk assessment committee, games like Undertale or The Forever Winter are made by people who had an idea for a game.
Very well said. I had the exact same thoughts. These big games are made by committee with no soul or direction… and players see and feel it right away. Non-gamers do not have that sense.
I have a friend that works at Sony and he says that the decisions that the company makes on a DAILY basis, are baffling.
The fact that nobody said anything about the game during its development is a masterclass on how to suppress feedback and how to become the next dictator of the world.
Ever have that boss that believes they’re God’s gift to the earth and that their opinion or method is objectively the best no matter what, here’s the result
175 employees roughly. If all of them made only 100k a year, times 8 years. 140 mil for bare minimum payroll alone.
They also outsourced a lot of money to other studios.
There is a video of the credits, it rolls for over an hour. Thats more than 175 employees.
@@DMR_MAK oof
I work in software dev and see shit like this every day, albeit obviously not with a $400 million price tag. People too entrenched in their own opinions and ideas, with a team of Yes Men following them up and silencing all legitimate issues. It drives the good devs to other teams, the good leaders to other companies, and saddles whoever is left with the shit nobody wants. You hate to see it.
I didn’t hear about Concord until it was killed lmao
I have a feeling that Marathon is gonna flop as well. Not as hard as Concord, but I think it’ll flop nonetheless and be either a killing blow or a major hit to Bungie.
Maybe Not Marathon But Their Future Destiny mobile Game , Nobody will Play it…who Even had the THOUGHT of this
Marathon's definitely flopping as hard as Redfall at least.
@@euphorya777 High as a kite if you think no one will play the destiny mobile game. Mobile market is largest gaming market by a country mile, and its being developed by a company that has a long and successful history in said market. Hell it will bring in more revenue then the main destiny game.
Any old Destiny players would shudder at Josh Hamrick name back in the day. And I am not surprised Concord utterly failed as a PVP game.
Anyone that was around and paid attention, ex-Bungie devs Josh Hamrick and Jon Weisnewski were the main driving force behind the terrible late D1 weapon balancing (bloom, shit HC performance), and the vanilla D2 sandbox experience (not a coincidence D2 sandbox started improving IMMEDIATELY after they left). So is it really surprising they cooked up a boring ass game?
The end credits for Concord are over 1 hour long. RDR2 and GTAV for comparison are like 30 minutes
Same with forspoken I absolutely loved that game but not a lot did except a small niche few
The studio that made Concord apparently put all their money into selling their brand to Playstation. Kinda the same overselling thing bungie did to get bought by Playstation.
Laura Fryer called it immediately after shutdown in her "Culture killed Concord", where she gave old examples and explained role of the feedback and iteration in game making.
Man I gotta admit, I really wish Anthem was cooking.
This happens when there is no outside quality control, everyone is a yes man, and no one is there for something they want to create but something they feel like will sell.
When Bureaucracy decides to make a game. At least it checked the boxes. Lmao.
"This is from Colin...Mrrrirty..." LOL! Cross. It's MOR-E-ARTY.
Concord didn't have a single character worth gooning over, that alone would've caused issues with monetization.
This game had so many failure points I honestly don’t know where to start. My main question is “what was the target audience”? Is a game that tried something new by copying a hero shooter where the hero’s don’t look like hero’s… DEI or not this project had some serious flaws and needs to be studied by other company’s to avoid the same/similar fall offs.
Keep covering gaming news please, your personal takes / hot-takes on most of the issues usually mirror my own and I enjoy watching. Been subscribed for a few years now.
And they payed 3x more for Bungie than its worth. Now Marathon is $40 live service. Will history repeat itself.
Just listened to this podcast today and I'm a fan of LSM, but its wayyy better with dramatic music and Aztecross
Huge difference between this and anthem, anthem was actually fun and a good game it just had no content...
To this day i still feel it could have become a great game, and the work those devs made in such a short time is amazing.
Anthem started with one fundamental mistake: "Hey, Bioware, you have to make a game that's nothing like what your studio is good at!" and then snowballed from there. Concord looks to have been constructed entirely of fundamental mistakes.
I'm gonna keep saying this until it becomes ingrained into everyone's skulls:
NOTHING IS TOO BIG TO FAIL.
EVER. PERIOD.
And if you ever assume things are too big to fail, life is gonna humble you.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it'll happen when you least expect it.
The studio and game cost on the same magnitude as the original world trade center complex in New York City. The steel cost 64 million alone.
This idea of "toxic positivity" is so important. I hope that devs (and anyone with this mentality, for that matter) learn their lesson from this astronomical waste of money.
That one guy who soure is " trust me bro "
Anthem had so much potential and was looking forward to the overhaul they announced like 2 years later right before they just scrapped the whole thing.
Concord is the new e.t game
This sounds like a Theranos type situation. This stuff happens all the time in the corporate world. A startup has an idea, they pump investor money into it, it’s not working but they have good sales people who sell it to a bigger corporation and then it falls apart. The only winners here are any people that had stock options in the team before it sold.
I’ve been in game dev for many years and even though some of his info sounds legit the emphasize on outsourcing and mvp as something out of the ordinary and that would cause a red flag isn’t. A couple of things to know, almost ALL big games use outsourcing that’s pretty much normal, and they are used quite extensively. The bigger studios have their own internal outsourcing, I believe Sony has one. I worked for one AAA title and our outsourcing staff was 2/3 of our own. It allowed the studio to move the budget around.. why? It had so much to do with taxes, bonuses and other bean counter things that make studio execs happy. Anyway, the thing with mvp is not surprising as mvp is in many ways a pre-alpha stage, something on paper you could ship, so of course it’s to no surprise that it was not mvp status, otherwise why need Sony. They needed Sony to get the game to MVP. The question act why Sony went with these guys is simple. A lot of these companies are NOT run by gamers, so they don’t know a great game from a poor game, what they do is what ALL these execs do, they are looking at the team and their track record and they evaluate the potential based on what’s going on in the market. This is where they bet wrong and many VC bets fail. I’m more curious what made them dbl and triple their bet, because I bet hit were ppl signaling this was not going to pan out, who up high made the actual call to keep funding this money pit of a game.
It balloons fast when you have an inept leader that hires a bunch of SVPs (only slightly more competent than the inept leader) to solve the problems the leader doesn't know how to fix.
We have a $200 million trainwreck!! What do we do?!
Pump in $200 million more, it will be fine.
All thatomey could have been put to combating food insecurity but imstead it was wasted on that garbage.
Idk actually but I used sealed ahamkara grasps a lot because it was actually decent back then even those it still just reloaded your guns on me less hit I think. But I’m pretty sure back then they didn’t have marksman dodge or really a lot of reload perks back then. They need to update and buff them in D2. I feel a they look way to cool to just reload guns. Like rework it to where uncharged melees now have a special claw attack that slashes and cause a tick damage that can stack 3 times on a single target so it’s good for multiple types of enemies. And everytime an enemy dies from that melee it absorbs their essence and gives some melee energy back but can also add mores melee charges based on the number of kills you get before it fully recharges and also empowers all charges to be stronger. When you use those powered melee charges you can either use them as normal empowered equipped melee’s or if you hold the melee button you can infuse the claws and do a faster like a 3-4 hit combo matching whatever element type of your super. Like a burst dps of melee damage. Essentially this would make it to where you wouldn’t want to run a too high of a melee recharge build because you want your melee to stay uncharged as long as possible use that bonus while uncharged and to build and reach maximum stacks for whenever it does charge.
Gameplay first then cinematic trailer. Devs who start out with the latter first, assume they’re making a blockbuster movie. What they dream the game would look like, but obviously won’t look like. That’s why when you start of with *not actual gameplay* you’ve already lost me. Cool you made a CGI trailer, go into the movie or animated tv show business then. With the game awards in 2 months, how much of that disclaimer will be there? Just don’t have a trailer if you don’t have gameplay yet, it’s as simple as that
Sony wanted something to show for their purchase and the problem sounds like they didnt have any input with the devs of concord they just threw money at it instead of designers, producers, etc.
Spider-Man being 350 million or whatever doesn't even make sense. 99% of that is probably just for the rights to the game. The entire foundation of the game is already built, its not like they have to design an entirely new map or world.
Right
Yeah like where did the money go? GoW Ragnarok has 100mil less budget and it looks and feels so much more expensive than Spider Man
budget is 350m, we know from the leaks the dev cost was not 350m.
400m thats crazy
Sony issued Refunds to All players for Concord. Sony made $0 and lost the entire $400mil entirely.
I tried deadlock btw. Good gunfeel. Pretty sure it didn't cost 400m thought
I hadnt even heard about concord until act man did his vid on it.
Ngl, I'm looking forward to the angryjoe news bit next week for this story
No, it didn't. The report already got confirmed as false.
Jim Ryan really went out with a bang
400 million is such as insane number just from the amount of content the game has. Elden Ring cost 200 million and gives you so much more game for that price. A huge world, hundreds if not thousands of unique models, orchestrated music, voice acting, ect. Concord was just a few pvp maps and a roster of characters with cutscenes and voice acting and some music. There must be something illegitimate going on because the numbers make no sense.
who the freak says soup to nuts LOL. I have NEVER heard that phrase before.
I assume its an analogy of start to finish (drinking the soup to urinating it out)
Its an old phrase that originallly meant "full course" like from the soup getting served to the end, with snacks like nuts
Had some interest after watching the trailer until they said hero shooter. Then I checked out. Should've been a single player story game imo
Sunk cost fallacy
9:13 If Concord was based on a manga, it would actually have good character designs 😂
On a positive note this will bring change
Jak and Daxter, R&C, Sly Cooper, Infamous, etc etc. Sony could’ve put that $400M to any classic PS exclusive, made a good game, and they would’ve doubled what they spent on the game in revenue. Shows what happens when you don’t listen to fans (who are literally the source of your money 🤷)
This sounds exactly like what happened with Final Fantasy XIV before ARR. The NoClip doc showed everything that is being mentioned here. The devs were of the mindset "oh we made great games before, there is no way we fail here. We have an awesome team there is no way we can fail". You had a bunch of devs working on separate things and none of it was guided or connected to one cohesive vision for what the game should be. Now it sounds like instead of Sony letting them launch the game in a buggy unplayable mess like FFXIV did, they dumped a shit ton of extra money into it just to get it to the playable state. This does not bode well, that is an absolutely massive amount of money to dump into a black hole. Sony unironically has actually been having studios put out pretty decent games for awhile. I hope this doesn't start to hurt the other studios that are doing good just because of some headass mentality.
5:36 sunk cost fallacy. Simple as that.
The “too good to fail” mentality sounds exactly like Bungie, even Halo 2 Bungie. They just didn’t get burned by it back then.
wukong had a $70 million budget
Not really far to compare eastern and western devs. I highly doubt Chinese devs are paid well or have decent work hours
studio is based in china ,labor is cheaper except for the CEOs
@@CC-of5xl well for western... Baldur’s Gate 3 development was roughly $100 million, but it earned roughly $1 billion across all platforms.
Last stand media on Azteccross pog
They should start with fixing their Consol Controllers so they dont get drifting
It was also probably supposed to be the poster game for the ps5 pro, and they probably had to scrub all that from trailer and show a bunch of games that are 4 years old lol
I don't believe that 400m at all. I'd have to see some receipts. I don't believe that Sony would drop 400m on a product and then just let it go.
Its so weird that so many movie studios and videogame companies want to create the next star wars. I would argue that we are all distracted with so much content these days that we can never create a cultural phenomenon like star wars anymore. It was a different time where we didnt have as much choice and everyone could rally behind something for a period of time to create a phenomenon like star wars. Even matrix that came out 25y ago couldnt become as big as starwars.
What I got out of this is that MVP can both mean the absolute minimum and the best.
hearing that bungie refugees were behind the biggest gaming flop in history is pretty uh
pretty bad man
i got cope but this is another level of.... im not surprised
We Americans learned the toxic positivity lesson in the 50s and 60s… apparently no one in management read history books… specifically with commercial flight and the space program…
400 million to make a game... The more you spent, the more you will need to get it back to be worthy, what the hell they were thinking. Remember when games were cheaper, that was because they was cheaper to make it too, companies are just investing too much into gaming, which just makes harder to be profitable, after all gamers will need to spent more too and it's not everyone that can spent much into a hobby.
Games were also cheaper to make because they were easier to make. The massive increase in technology costs alot more to develop for. Everything is more complex now. And games were not cheaper either. I remember Nintendo 64 games being near $60 back in 97. I'd have to Google search if there's any ads for old N64 games, but convert for inflation and they were more expensive to buy back then.
Just googled, some reached up to $75 in 1997 which is equivalent to $140 in 2023.
@@tinystar3010 Yes, i know, but think about it, what is a "cost"? Money nowadays are nothing but numbers on a screen, its not a precious natural formation like gold or silver, so making a game only costs more now because we said it would, people can change this price any time as it is not something "real".
Having said that, of course this would affect the industry as paying less results in less people whiling to work, less companies doing the marketing and less people interested in funding it, its not a simple thing besides my explanation above being quite simple, unfortunately we don't have much choice besides working to gain more
The devs were to just deciding where to hide the disc drive for the ps5 pro
0:42 is that Hellboy at home?
When you order Hellboy on wish 😂
@@DamitriousTucker-sw3dc honestly though lol
Gotta love that aot desktop wallpaper 👌🏻❤️
also the 3b on Bungie...
after all, Concord was made and directed by Ex Bungie employees 🤣🤣🤣🤣