@@HioSSilver1999 Ford Truck Enthusiast Forum, with your response I highly doubt you are who i was thinking lol his Avatar is HioSilver as well, has a great buildup of a sweet Bumpside Ford
In defense of the carb setup, the power curve it’s laying down is far superior for the daily driven, red light to red light type of build. So when the dude with the efi setup pulls up next to you at the next red light you’ve got the 60’ in the bag. If he’s got the gusto to gap you, spray it at 5K rpm with a 125 plate.
Richard, i dare you to hang a carb off the front of the factory efi manifold, just because, like a dominator on an old straight 6, why? because........hahaha
Thank you for doing a true back to back of a dry intake versus a wet intake. I've always been curious about this, and I was very surprised by the lower speed results in your test.
Awesome job as always. I love watching some of the budget builds and content. We have a new 4.8 with 799 heads that I will be pulling out of the 08 truck and putting it in an old C10 on our channel. Thanks CW
The reason the truck efi manifold vs the dual plane tb/carb manifold makes less torque , but slightly more midrange & high end HP, is due to the truck efi having a larger plenum area, whereas the dual plane has a smaller plenum area (or the top end where the carb/tb mounts). So this would make sense. Larger runners, more low end, Larger plenum, more high end. So when you change one, it will affect the other. How much you change these is dependent upon what you are looking for. For example, adding 1/2", 1", 2" , etc tb/carb plates. The fully open ones add plenum volume, the 4 hole versions add runner length. So these should be used accordingly. Whether the depth (1", 2", etc) or fully open, 4 hole, even the tapered versions of each can affect the powerband. I see these, amongst pretty much anything that goes on an engine, all mismatched &/or thrown together improperly.
I’ve had three LS powered trucks, I always thought they felt soft off the line, the truck vs dual plane intake torque curve may explain why... Hey Richard, can you narrow up your dyno graph a skosh, the numbers on the left aren’t fully visible (I’ve noticed the same on the past few vids)
Had a 2000 single cab long bed 4.8 that just RIPPED(cold air intake and nothing else😂) and beat even a 05 4.8 stock that shouldve made more stock to stock in a little street race 😂 that truck was something else. Also had a real light throttle spring that made it super touchy lol
@@lte008 that's mostly because the 6.0 don't get into pe mode for 60 seconds or until the engine reaches 5200 rpm......so no full power in first gear. I did a back to back test of just turning that feature off and my 2500hd 4x4 6.0 picked up .3-.4 in the quarter via draggy.
Wow, excellent video Sir. I had always assumed even w/a mild cam on an LS engine that a single plane would flow better right off the bat. Reason being is the natural (unported) flow characteristics of gen 3 & 4 heads are so far superior to that of a small block that the gains (even if miniscule) would still be visible. Another interesting note is again, how the factory truck intake really is a good performer
Hey Richard, set youself up an account with Row52. You can get an alert by email when a hard to find a vehicle is freshly set in the yard. Like you said, got to be one of the firsts ones out there or they're gone right away. This is how you'll get those 6.0L LS or aluminum 5.3L from the Trailblazer/Envoy.
Hey Richard! Great videos. I’d love to see some Buick 3800. Some say it’s the greatest motor ever made and swear by them. I say it needs to get put to the test. Also, 318 mopar in a high performance application would be great to see. I’m seeing and influx of 318 from all coast. Really appreciate you hard work during covid! God speed my friend.!!
An LSA experiment in this mix would be awesome. You have 114 here, 110 is common, 106 goes begging, and 102 is the not insane step to see if what everybody says is how it actually goes. 102 is maybe not as crazy as it sounds. 212/218 with 102 LSA has the same overlap as 222/228 with 112 LSA.
can we say that the GM4.8L curve holds true as well for a SBF 289, except that the 289 will never make those TQ/HP numbers with stock heads running the same setup dual vs single with the same cam characteristics.
Yes I would love to see. A q jet compared to a Holley or Edelbrock carb on an ls compare hp numbers and see how close they are I know you did it with the caddy and it was close but all the guys hate q jets and I love them I would love to see them say wow they do work well I wish they were still in production and not so expensive to buy compared to an Edelbrock it's not fair but Edelbrock bought out carter afb and no one can make their own q jets I guess rochester won't let them due to copyright infringmemsts
We're not seeing the numbers completely on the left hand scale, they are being cropped out. Please fix this, it didn't use to be this way. The video content is great as always.
I’ve been running an RPM intake on a mild cam 6.0 Ls2 with ported 243 heads. I use a Holley Terminator TBI and HP ecu. The carb intakes look clean and good under the hood of a classic. The carb intakes are inexpensive and simpler to set up if you’re using an actual carburetor instead of TBI. Looking back I would have gone with a more expensive set up like a Fast Lsxr intake on my combo because the RPM intake in comparison leaves a lot of power on the table. If I went with a Fast now it would wake it right up.
Gosh, this is exactly why I wanted to see the Offy 360 deg dual port high rise. To compare to the RPM air gap. I wanted to see if it took off the high end or not in a direct comparison. The idea seamed solid to keep the velocity on the low end and provide the volume on the high end. I know you said you tested them before but I searched your videos and cant find it anywhere. THis fasinates me because I remember guys knife edging those port dividers to increase the CFM and they swear it worked. It was popular back in the day.
What if the dual plane had port injection installed and a throttle body, would it have the torque low down with the tunability of the factory Fi, next the turbo test how do you make this work in a street car that has to have mufflers the back pressure 4 inch dump pipe can you revisit the turbo test with exhaust pipes and mufflers to see the difference and a air cleaner. ever thought about a Y block Ford test? some people are making big power with them.
@@lucysmith4242 Only the rectangle port (ls3/l92) heads don't fit , all the cathedral ports head including 317s which came on 6.0 will fit the 4.8 no problem.
What happens if you just run straight 50 weight oil in these junk yard motors ? At the dirt track , the idea was to build the motors with lots and lots of clearance so they wouldn’t lock up if they overheated and fill the slop with thicker oil.
Would like to see an additional injector set up behind throttle body on truck mamifold to see what the effect of charge air cooling and mass inertia if any is compared to without and carb performance
Rich is there a camshaft grind that would be considered a torque grind that would produce better numbers with the carb setup? I love the fuel injection on my daily driver but a carb bolted to an aluminum intake under the hood of toy still has a very strong cool factor for this guy.
Truck or dual plane both very good . For the budget builder , dual plane and carb every time. More ftlb at 3000 rpm ish . Where most of us spend most of our time.
Have you considered doing sbe ls1 maximum effort head, cam, intake, efi combo test? See just how much you can squeeze from a stock bottom end n/a ls1 setup the every day guy could achieve with the right parts?
Would you consider doing a video on destroking a 6.0l with 4.8l crank? If my math is correct I believe it brings it to 334 cubes. I've read about people doing it but am curious to see how it does on the Dyno...
On the EFI VS CARB you were talking about the carb style fuel injection to take advantage of the charge cooling but you lose the individual cylinder tunability but i ask you this, could you run both at once... think like how the combination direct/indirect injection but instead have the main fueling come from the carb style injection but even them out with the port injection
Don't see the point in doing that. Most of the time with racecars, if its a good idea its probably been done already. Why not run throttle body injection and not overcomplicate it lol
Do you have a video on dialing in a MSD 6014? I have my 4.8 running on the the "Truck" preset. I have a BTR Torque Cam and 650 Edelbrock AVS2. I'd like to use a "Custom" setting do dial it but have no idea what to do
@@richardholdener1727 Uhhh... is that a "yes", or a "no", exactly? Wait, never-mind... I just needed to read it more carefully. And I hope you don't mean the ITBs, btw.
Rich you to use the wats line And get them shipped into you I have yet to be in the boneyard where you don't stumble across a half a dozen or more in the yard at one time I am currently building lq4 6 litre in to stump pulling 408 cubic inch 6.7 litre
That is interesting....a long runner EFI manifold had LESS torque down low and MORE torque at high rpms...never seen that before. Any guess as to why? Maybe the aftermarket cam affected the results?
I thought of a neat idea build an elbow/adapter to mount a carb on front of the truck efi intake, I don't see how it would be hard to Fab up, it would be interesting to see if it even worked, I think it would. You could start a revolution!
This was something I always wanted to see. I have a carbed single plane 4.8 with a ss2 cam. Its driveability is junk! Anything below 4k is snooze fest. But when the secondaries open up it really does scream.
@@theall-seeingpie8887 it's vacuum, and I have the lightest spring possible in there. I'm going to tbss intake and EFI soon. Thanks for the tip though!
Wow. I paused the video and made my guess on the truck intake and was shocked and disappointed with the results. I guess the truck intake runners are simply too long for that displacement. Glad this was not a trivial pursuit question because I woild have lost big time lol
I have a 4.8 with the Edelbrock dual plane intake, FITECH TBI and 700r4 with stock converter to put in my 68 Pontiac Tempest Wagon with 2.78 gears. I want to daily drive this.I am also considering a BTR Torque cam. and a 1/2 edelbrock 8722 wood spacer to keep heat off the FITECH (don't know the performance). What do you think of this combo Rich? Thanks, Al
You did a funny test on the 292 "other guy" engine. A test I would like to see is a divided Dominator to 4150 spacer to use a Dominator on a Dual Plane intake mountet on a healthy engine. If the truck intake is used on 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0L engines, maybe the runner size is a bit to big for the smallest engine?
Truck intake wasn't ever used on 5.7. But yes the idea is true, its a bit too big for the small 4.8, slightly big for the 5.3 and basically perfect for the 6.0.
hey try this on the ls run singel plane and run a small cfm carb change the air bleeds.i think your running a 750 850 cfm try a ajustible carb at 600 cfm with this combo.volacity is the way of low end.dual plane is best for small cubes air speed seem to be best for low end but uper end is where we like to be.this is my take on this now for a exsample on stock intake ive ported just some off the runners port match and just good runner clean up not big air stuff seemed to raise hp in uper rpms but still keep low end and midrange pulled well it was crisper all around.so hp how much est 10 hp but thats seat of pants pull thew th rpm range.yes its not worth to port stock intakes but when you want a littel extra kick yes its worth it i think so i dont mind at all to do it and yes ive lost hp to from hoging ports out so you live and learn i did.ram tuning now thats a callange right cam? intake?carb and be tune to a rpm from1800 to 5000 big leap i know but its a chalange to get close or try.there some cheap thrills.E-85 a fule to just to try to go faster with.lets build a carb for e85 can it be done for cheap and be realible for every day use holly makes one now can any body.
@@kkmart43 smaller will raise low end not top end and singel plane loses low end know matter what you have and volicity will raise torque changing to a bigger carb dont in prove to raise low end that was the point.and big ports dont always help fill the chambers at low rpms volicty dose so if i wanted to reach 7500 rpms yes singel plane but you lose low end.holly could give you a better understanding of this factor.
@@kkmart43 ram tuning is about filling the chambers at sed rpm cam +carb + fule at sed rpms=hp.manifolds can be to big at sed rpm.amanfold is tuned to a rpm no.so to small you lose uper end zo if manifold is the right size it will alow you to make hp but thirs rpm limits to manifold thing so the manifold controls it all no it dont.flow only means hp when its right to the app not big means more.thers so much more to list im not going to reply so dont.if your into engines and try helping others than help them not me thanks.
@@jumpsuite im not arguing about the effects of intakes, your original post says to put a smaller carb on a single plane intake to boost low end. that will not boost low end.
Given the results between the carb single plane and dual plane. If those same manifolds were fitted with 8 port fuel injectors and a 4 barrel throttle body would you expect to see the same results (or close to given the lack of charge cooling). I know there are different runner lengths but you also spoke about "carb signal", so what is the impact of that ??
@Richard Holdner, you should do a comparison of the dual plane versus the Gen 4 truck intake and the LSXRT, I have a gen 4 LY2 I'm building for my E36 track car and would love to see that comparison! I'll be doing BTRs road race cam along with TEAs 243/799 cncd heads with a bump in compression, im shooting for 500 crank horsepower similar to your 500hp recipe setup
Eventually I would like to do a TSP sleeved block bored to 4.185 with the 4.8 crank giving me a 359ci setup with a 6.500 rod and custom pistons, ends up with a 1.98 rod to stroke ratio
I am so suprised at the dual plane vs truck efi low end torque thing! ... Now I'm really curious about my 4.9L ferd truck efi intake (w/4holed injectors) vs stock carb vs uhm, clifford! we gottta get one of those engines and stuff into Richards HANDs! and if not, welp still THANK YOU!
Awesome do you think the lift on this cam was a little low also this cam seems to be great on any engine even 6.0 love this cam and is super smooth what kind of stroker can you do to a 4.8
My little 5.3 s10 with longtubes ss2 cam .pac 1218.s holly duel plane and quick fuel 750 and nx mainline nitrous kit .th400 amd 8.8 rear thiers few more things done but that's basic rundown runs very well on motor ib beat a new 5.0 mustang and other similar s10 that are fuel injected but I don't care about carb or fuel injection either one makes great power both have ups and downs im not chasing every extra few hp eirher.rhays why I have nitrous. Lol
On the factory intake, would it produce more torque if the injectors were higher up on those long intake runners? I know it can not de done but if it could, I think it would make more Torque and HP.
My bone stock 4.8 in my chevy truck is a total dog down low. In 4 wheel drive it will not slip the wheels in a tight spot. Hold it to the floor and it stays on the converter, but won't move. Im not talking out rock crawling, beating or mudding, just wet grass, pulling out a a ditch. It is ok if you turn it 5,000 rpm's, but who wants to do that? It may have 350ish peak TQ but down low it has zero. Not a good truck engine.
@ron Kay idk...5.3 runs decent and was mostly done for fuel economy. My uncles 03 rcsb 4x4 ran 15.8@87 bonestock. A few mods later runs 15.3@90 with a improvement in fuel economy. Not as quick as alot of todays trucks but it's peppy to drive.
@@chrisreynolds6520 old vortecs did well at low rpm. I just put headers and td x pipe exhaust on my 6.0. That helped low rpm stuff pretty well. No draggy test on that yet.
My 99 Silverado with the 5.3 has plenty of low end torque. I rarely seen anything above 2k RPM. Around 2.5K when towing and it gets down the road easily.
Having a 4.8 and a 5.3 in Identical Express Vans I can say the 4.8 is just too gutless on the bottom and gets the same MPG. Unless it's going in a really light car, get a 5.3 and build it.
Wheres that custom super long length ls intake that Drives torque in the 1500 5000 range ? You know the one that you haven't built yet. The one with water jet 3/4" flanges and exhaust collector style single point collection per bank of 4 Them move 8 injectors away from the head to the other side of the motor for charge cooling ala crystler in 66. You can do all that for turbo wiz bang, Why not N.A.?
@@wwmaness Ilmore made an intake for their 6.2 marine engine where they claim peak torque at 4400 and peak hp at 5600 that looks alot like the TPI intake to me, it has a lower and upper that bolt's together. I have one waiting to go on something.
@@oggp5951 Thanks for sharing! That makes a lot of sense that one was developed for a marine application. Cool that you were able to get your handles on one as well. We know Richard would love to test it!
I still fail to understand... Why bother putting a carb on a LS? Always the same or less power with a carb (at the mid to high power level) and the stock intake and fuel rails end up allowing for much better power with a minor tune. What about one of the "throttle body" carbs that are really nothing more than an air intake on top of the classic intake but still uses the stock (or better) EFI fuel rails? Does it still show the better down low power?
When tuned they are good street carburetors, but the engine "never" deliver the same amount of torque and horsepower as when it has a good Performance Holley carburetor. I agree with Mr. Holdener, Brawler FTW.
Richard, I think everyone would agree you are underpaid and giving out free lessons. Have you tried any of the rev9 turbos? I was curious about twin tx-72-68 on a 4.8l.
That dual plane torque curve is flat as a board. There's absolutely no reason to dislike a dual plane on a 4.8. Screw the extra top end. On a street car, that thing will be cherry. A nitrous plate and a TBI setup would be a total sleeper.
Keep loving the videos. Rich can you adjust the screen for the Dyno? I can’t see the hp numbers
I also have this issue
Yes
Richard, I don't think you realize it, but you've cropped the y axis numbers off of two videos in a row.
It lets your imagination run wild!
I was going to post this ...
Richard's devotion blows me away, so much value here.
I can't see the horsepower numbers on the left. Good video
I just ♡ the continued use of the RAVE music, it makes me so happy
Hammer Time!
I wanna see more dancing!
No homo
@@HioSSilver1999 FTE ? Is that you my Friend?
@@smokenchoken1736 idk...maybe...lol. what's fte?
@@HioSSilver1999 Ford Truck Enthusiast Forum, with your response I highly doubt you are who i was thinking lol his Avatar is HioSilver as well, has a great buildup of a sweet Bumpside Ford
In defense of the carb setup, the power curve it’s laying down is far superior for the daily driven, red light to red light type of build. So when the dude with the efi setup pulls up next to you at the next red light you’ve got the 60’ in the bag. If he’s got the gusto to gap you, spray it at 5K rpm with a 125 plate.
EFI on top on dual plane
Great job Richard.
Thanks brother
If you dyno those rpm airgaps..they really respond to a hvh style spacer.. we generally see 17 to 20hp on a stock 6.0..
Richard, i dare you to hang a carb off the front of the factory efi manifold, just because, like a dominator on an old straight 6, why? because........hahaha
I was thinking maybe he could graft a 4-barrel on top of the plenum...
I have a set up for that-just have not run it yet
@@richardholdener1727 get on it!
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a prediction that fuel distribution is going to be trash.
I love the 4.8 tests. It’s the “other guys” engine of the LS world.
I got mine for like $350 on craigslist full dressed. They're a steal for what is effectively 90% of a 5.3
Working on my 4.8 single cab for my channel
Thank you for doing a true back to back of a dry intake versus a wet intake. I've always been curious about this, and I was very surprised by the lower speed results in your test.
Awesome job as always. I love watching some of the budget builds and content. We have a new 4.8 with 799 heads that I will be pulling out of the 08 truck and putting it in an old C10 on our channel. Thanks CW
are you putting 706 heads on it to make more power?
Will the 706 heads make more power than the 799 heads? Thanks for responding so quickly and giving the Ls community so many tips.
GREAT VIDEO & EDUCATION RICHARD!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!! I LEARNED SO MUCH!!!!
The reason the truck efi manifold vs the dual plane tb/carb manifold makes less torque , but slightly more midrange & high end HP, is due to the truck efi having a larger plenum area, whereas the dual plane has a smaller plenum area (or the top end where the carb/tb mounts). So this would make sense. Larger runners, more low end, Larger plenum, more high end. So when you change one, it will affect the other. How much you change these is dependent upon what you are looking for. For example, adding 1/2", 1", 2" , etc tb/carb plates. The fully open ones add plenum volume, the 4 hole versions add runner length. So these should be used accordingly. Whether the depth (1", 2", etc) or fully open, 4 hole, even the tapered versions of each can affect the powerband. I see these, amongst pretty much anything that goes on an engine, all mismatched &/or thrown together improperly.
The HP numbers on the left are cut off on your video framing
Great info. Thanks for performing these tests , so we can see the result without spending inordinate amounts of $$.
Stay Real.
I’ve had three LS powered trucks, I always thought they felt soft off the line, the truck vs dual plane intake torque curve may explain why...
Hey Richard, can you narrow up your dyno graph a skosh, the numbers on the left aren’t fully visible (I’ve noticed the same on the past few vids)
Yes. I've had a half dozen LS powered trucks. Mostly 6.0s. Dogs down low.
Had a 2000 single cab long bed 4.8 that just RIPPED(cold air intake and nothing else😂) and beat even a 05 4.8 stock that shouldve made more stock to stock in a little street race 😂 that truck was something else. Also had a real light throttle spring that made it super touchy lol
@@lte008 that's mostly because the 6.0 don't get into pe mode for 60 seconds or until the engine reaches 5200 rpm......so no full power in first gear.
I did a back to back test of just turning that feature off and my 2500hd 4x4 6.0 picked up .3-.4 in the quarter via draggy.
@@HioSSilver1999 it totally sucks and they kill it from the factory then.
@@lte008 yup...easily fixed tho. They pull so much better once that is removed in the tune.
I would love to see a Predator carb comparison with the regular carbs in all your videos, love your videos.
I just picked one of those up. Such a cool piece
@@mikehaslett3738 once you put it to use I'm sure you will love it. I ran one on my dirt late model till they outlawed them, I loved it.
Wow, excellent video Sir. I had always assumed even w/a mild cam on an LS engine that a single plane would flow better right off the bat. Reason being is the natural (unported) flow characteristics of gen 3 & 4 heads are so far superior to that of a small block that the gains (even if miniscule) would still be visible.
Another interesting note is again, how the factory truck intake really is a good performer
Hey Richard, set youself up an account with Row52. You can get an alert by email when a hard to find a vehicle is freshly set in the yard. Like you said, got to be one of the firsts ones out there or they're gone right away. This is how you'll get those 6.0L LS or aluminum 5.3L from the Trailblazer/Envoy.
Hey Richard! Great videos. I’d love to see some Buick 3800. Some say it’s the greatest motor ever made and swear by them. I say it needs to get put to the test. Also, 318 mopar in a high performance application would be great to see. I’m seeing and influx of 318 from all coast. Really appreciate you hard work during covid! God speed my friend.!!
An LSA experiment in this mix would be awesome. You have 114 here, 110 is common, 106 goes begging, and 102 is the not insane step to see if what everybody says is how it actually goes.
102 is maybe not as crazy as it sounds. 212/218 with 102 LSA has the same overlap as 222/228 with 112 LSA.
Just makes for a more peaky powerband/ torque curve with the tighter LSA
look at the lsa vid already up
@@richardholdener1727 That didn't get down to the 102 LSA
It was that LSA test that made me want to see what a short duration ( like 212/218) would do at 102 LSA
212/218 with 102 LSA has less overlap than a 232/242 with 120 LSA
can we say that the GM4.8L curve holds true as well for a SBF 289, except that the 289 will never make those TQ/HP numbers with stock heads running the same setup dual vs single with the same cam characteristics.
Q-Jet on an LS. Please. Probably do the same though with maybe more low end Torque?
Yes I would love to see. A q jet compared to a Holley or Edelbrock carb on an ls compare hp numbers and see how close they are I know you did it with the caddy and it was close but all the guys hate q jets and I love them I would love to see them say wow they do work well I wish they were still in production and not so expensive to buy compared to an Edelbrock it's not fair but Edelbrock bought out carter afb and no one can make their own q jets I guess rochester won't let them due to copyright infringmemsts
That truck intake was surprising!!
Its funny , here in Australia we only ever got the 5.7 ls1 ( Aluminium block ) Or later came 6 and 6.2 LSA etc. We never got 4.8 or 5.3 .... pity
@Mr. 6 liter littered with the shit LS engines you mean 5.3 and 4.8 are kinda garb
Funny that 6.0 and 6.2 are hard to get in USA . Everybody wants one.
You're not missing anything
@@Kmecha84 so true lmao
Wish we got the cool inline 6 like the barra the rb and the 2jz
Great Information as always Rich💪🏾💪🏻💪🏼
We're not seeing the numbers completely on the left hand scale, they are being cropped out. Please fix this, it didn't use to be this way. The video content is great as always.
I’ve been running an RPM intake on a mild cam 6.0 Ls2 with ported 243 heads. I use a Holley Terminator TBI and HP ecu.
The carb intakes look clean and good under the hood of a classic. The carb intakes are inexpensive and simpler to set up if you’re using an actual carburetor instead of TBI.
Looking back I would have gone with a more expensive set up like a Fast Lsxr intake on my combo because the RPM intake in comparison leaves a lot of power on the table. If I went with a Fast now it would wake it right up.
Gosh, this is exactly why I wanted to see the Offy 360 deg dual port high rise. To compare to the RPM air gap. I wanted to see if it took off the high end or not in a direct comparison. The idea seamed solid to keep the velocity on the low end and provide the volume on the high end. I know you said you tested them before but I searched your videos and cant find it anywhere. THis fasinates me because I remember guys knife edging those port dividers to increase the CFM and they swear it worked. It was popular back in the day.
have not run the Offy 360
Oh, I thought you said you had. I'd like to see that go turbo.
What if the dual plane had port injection installed and a throttle body, would it have the torque low down with the tunability of the factory Fi, next the turbo test how do you make this work in a street car that has to have mufflers the back pressure 4 inch dump pipe can you revisit the turbo test with exhaust pipes and mufflers to see the difference and a air cleaner. ever thought about a Y block Ford test? some people are making big power with them.
Show the comparison of cylinder heads like the 6.0 on the 4.8 block
6.0 heads on a 4.8 inch would lose a lot of compression
4.8 doesn't have a bore big enough for em. They don't fit
@@lucysmith4242 Only the rectangle port (ls3/l92) heads don't fit , all the cathedral ports head including 317s which came on 6.0 will fit the 4.8 no problem.
just put 706 heads on the 4.8L-they work best
dilsher12 thanks for the info and my bad for my misinformation 👌🏼
Love the content Richard keep it comin
What happens if you just run straight 50 weight oil in these junk yard motors ? At the dirt track , the idea was to build the motors with lots and lots of clearance so they wouldn’t lock up if they overheated and fill the slop with thicker oil.
Would like to see an additional injector set up behind throttle body on truck mamifold to see what the effect of charge air cooling and mass inertia if any is compared to without and carb performance
You should make an adaptor to run a carb on the LS truck manifold....
Rich is there a camshaft grind that would be considered a torque grind that would produce better numbers with the carb setup? I love the fuel injection on my daily driver but a carb bolted to an aluminum intake under the hood of toy still has a very strong cool factor for this guy.
any cam swap will improve both induction systems, but there are mild cams that help low end some
Can you do a single plane vs dual plane with turbo for both?
I’d like to see you test a tunnel ram or high ram with 2 small carbs vs the truck manifold
Guys with single planes and holley high rises on their mild 350s and 10psi 5.3s make me giggle.
Truck or dual plane both very good . For the budget builder , dual plane and carb every time. More ftlb at 3000 rpm ish . Where most of us spend most of our time.
Love these videos Rich! I got a weird proposition... How about a stroker crank in the small Bore 4.8!
we've done 383 strokers from 4.8Ls-usually increase bore too
Have you considered doing sbe ls1 maximum effort head, cam, intake, efi combo test? See just how much you can squeeze from a stock bottom end n/a ls1 setup the every day guy could achieve with the right parts?
Would you consider doing a video on destroking a 6.0l with 4.8l crank? If my math is correct I believe it brings it to 334 cubes. I've read about people doing it but am curious to see how it does on the Dyno...
If not mistaken I think he did that like 3 years ago
On the EFI VS CARB you were talking about the carb style fuel injection to take advantage of the charge cooling but you lose the individual cylinder tunability but i ask you this, could you run both at once... think like how the combination direct/indirect injection but instead have the main fueling come from the carb style injection but even them out with the port injection
Don't see the point in doing that. Most of the time with racecars, if its a good idea its probably been done already. Why not run throttle body injection and not overcomplicate it lol
F1 had duel injector positions to provide the charge cooling and individual cylinder tuning
Do you have a video on dialing in a MSD 6014? I have my 4.8 running on the the "Truck" preset. I have a BTR Torque Cam and 650 Edelbrock AVS2. I'd like to use a "Custom" setting do dial it but have no idea what to do
I use custom and no map-only rpm vs timing
Really considering a 4.8 swapped into my 98 TJ some day. Just sucks I can't legally carb swap it.
Well, Rich... having said what you just said about TBI, when you gonna finally break-down & run one of those self-learning, self-contained ones?
engine masters did a test with the terminator TBI vs carburetor
self learning -no-TB injection, yes
@@richardholdener1727 Uhhh... is that a "yes", or a "no", exactly?
Wait, never-mind... I just needed to read it more carefully. And I hope you don't mean the ITBs, btw.
Alright Richard, question for you. Ever considered doing a Build vs Build 327 small block versus 5.3 LS? Pros and Cons, power and costs?
YES-I HAVE COMPARED
Also please put your picture back down in the lower right corner. there's usually nothing down there that gets in the way.
Rich you to use the wats line
And get them shipped into you
I have yet to be in the boneyard where you don't stumble across a half a dozen or more in the yard at one time
I am currently building lq4 6 litre in to stump pulling 408 cubic inch 6.7 litre
wats line? I spend endless hours in yards-do not see any 6.0Ls-only the smaller ones
That is interesting....a long runner EFI manifold had LESS torque down low and MORE torque at high rpms...never seen that before. Any guess as to why?
Maybe the aftermarket cam affected the results?
Dual planes make more low rpm torque.
I thought of a neat idea build an elbow/adapter to mount a carb on front of the truck efi intake, I don't see how it would be hard to Fab up, it would be interesting to see if it even worked, I think it would. You could start a revolution!
I built one of those-just haven't run it yet
@@richardholdener1727 nice!
This was something I always wanted to see. I have a carbed single plane 4.8 with a ss2 cam. Its driveability is junk! Anything below 4k is snooze fest. But when the secondaries open up it really does scream.
If it's got mechanical secondaries a small bolt with a nut on the linkage will make them open quicker... Have fun
@@theall-seeingpie8887 it's vacuum, and I have the lightest spring possible in there. I'm going to tbss intake and EFI soon. Thanks for the tip though!
Richard can you do some testing on FST carbs?
8:37 I still want to see a hybrid setup with small port injectors with a main injector feeding the carb.
5.3 dual plane with a throttle body efi a small plate kit 😎
great test
Love the video man but zoom the camera out so we can see the hp numbers to the left. Ls motors are great
Wow. I paused the video and made my guess on the truck intake and was shocked and disappointed with the results. I guess the truck intake runners are simply too long for that displacement. Glad this was not a trivial pursuit question because I woild have lost big time lol
I have a 4.8 with the Edelbrock dual plane intake, FITECH TBI and 700r4 with stock converter to put in my 68 Pontiac Tempest Wagon with 2.78 gears. I want to daily drive this.I am also considering a BTR Torque cam. and a 1/2 edelbrock 8722 wood spacer to keep heat off the FITECH (don't know the performance). What do you think of this combo Rich?
Thanks, Al
You did a funny test on the 292 "other guy" engine. A test I would like to see is a divided Dominator to 4150 spacer to use a Dominator on a Dual Plane intake mountet on a healthy engine.
If the truck intake is used on 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0L engines, maybe the runner size is a bit to big for the smallest engine?
Truck intake wasn't ever used on 5.7. But yes the idea is true, its a bit too big for the small 4.8, slightly big for the 5.3 and basically perfect for the 6.0.
hey try this on the ls run singel plane and run a small cfm carb change the air bleeds.i think your running a 750 850 cfm try a ajustible carb at 600 cfm with this combo.volacity is the way of low end.dual plane is best for small cubes air speed seem to be best for low end but uper end is where we like to be.this is my take on this now for a exsample on stock intake ive ported just some off the runners port match and just good runner clean up not big air stuff seemed to raise hp in uper rpms but still keep low end and midrange pulled well it was crisper all around.so hp how much est 10 hp but thats seat of pants pull thew th rpm range.yes its not worth to port stock intakes but when you want a littel extra kick yes its worth it i think so i dont mind at all to do it and yes ive lost hp to from hoging ports out so you live and learn i did.ram tuning now thats a callange right cam? intake?carb and be tune to a rpm from1800 to 5000 big leap i know but its a chalange to get close or try.there some cheap thrills.E-85 a fule to just to try to go faster with.lets build a carb for e85 can it be done for cheap and be realible for every day use holly makes one now can any body.
You obviously don't understand tip in on the carb sizing and smaller isn't always better for torque.
@@kkmart43 smaller will raise low end not top end and singel plane loses low end know matter what you have and volicity will raise torque changing to a bigger carb dont in prove to raise low end that was the point.and big ports dont always help fill the chambers at low rpms volicty dose so if i wanted to reach 7500 rpms yes singel plane but you lose low end.holly could give you a better understanding of this factor.
@@jumpsuite carb sizing doesnt change anything unless your too small then it will kill low end, it's all in the manifold.
@@kkmart43 ram tuning is about filling the chambers at sed rpm cam +carb + fule at sed rpms=hp.manifolds can be to big at sed rpm.amanfold is tuned to a rpm no.so to small you lose uper end zo if manifold is the right size it will alow you to make hp but thirs rpm limits to manifold thing so the manifold controls it all no it dont.flow only means hp when its right to the app not big means more.thers so much more to list im not going to reply so dont.if your into engines and try helping others than help them not me thanks.
@@jumpsuite im not arguing about the effects of intakes, your original post says to put a smaller carb on a single plane intake to boost low end. that will not boost low end.
650 brawler ? Or
Given the results between the carb single plane and dual plane. If those same manifolds were fitted with 8 port fuel injectors and a 4 barrel throttle body would you expect to see the same results (or close to given the lack of charge cooling). I know there are different runner lengths but you also spoke about "carb signal", so what is the impact of that ??
power curves would be the same-just better tuning
@Richard Holdner, you should do a comparison of the dual plane versus the Gen 4 truck intake and the LSXRT, I have a gen 4 LY2 I'm building for my E36 track car and would love to see that comparison! I'll be doing BTRs road race cam along with TEAs 243/799 cncd heads with a bump in compression, im shooting for 500 crank horsepower similar to your 500hp recipe setup
lots of vids up comparing the Fast to the truck-the Fast is a lot better-just more $
Eventually I would like to do a TSP sleeved block bored to 4.185 with the 4.8 crank giving me a 359ci setup with a 6.500 rod and custom pistons, ends up with a 1.98 rod to stroke ratio
Always a great video
I am so suprised at the dual plane vs truck efi low end torque thing!
... Now I'm really curious about my 4.9L ferd truck efi intake (w/4holed injectors) vs stock carb vs uhm, clifford!
we gottta get one of those engines and stuff into Richards HANDs! and if not, welp still THANK YOU!
Awesome do you think the lift on this cam was a little low also this cam seems to be great on any engine even 6.0 love this cam and is super smooth what kind of stroker can you do to a 4.8
you can make a 383 out of the 4.8L
How do I pick out the right tunnel ram in carburetors for my 496 big block
a pair of 650s or 750s
@@richardholdener1727 thank u
@@richardholdener1727 how about a tunnel ram what would you suggest a holley sniper or weiand tunnel ram
Richard, are most of your test done on GMC’/ Chevy’s?
Nah hes got Ford, Buick, Mopar, Lawnmower brands, and oddballs
I test them all
HANDS Holdener! 👐
4.8 makes a killer trot line weight.
If you put the right intake and heads and you got a nice table too
Thirty years ago people said the same thing about the 400sb.
And almost any 6cyl. Oh, How times have changed!
Are you still to show the big cadillac? With boost? Us caddy guys are waiting like a 5 year old at Christmas
yes
I have both engines so I could easily do it but would like to see results beforehand lol.
Why don't you show the averege numbers on all dynoruns you perform? In my book thats what count.
My little 5.3 s10 with longtubes ss2 cam .pac 1218.s holly duel plane and quick fuel 750 and nx mainline nitrous kit .th400 amd 8.8 rear thiers few more things done but that's basic rundown runs very well on motor ib beat a new 5.0 mustang and other similar s10 that are fuel injected but I don't care about carb or fuel injection either one makes great power both have ups and downs im not chasing every extra few hp eirher.rhays why I have nitrous. Lol
richard your superhero name shall be "Mr. Dyno" back story shall be something grievous to make a good story
On the factory intake, would it produce more torque if the injectors were higher up on those long intake runners? I know it can not de done but if it could, I think it would make more Torque and HP.
YES
5:50 am here in the Mid West
My bone stock 4.8 in my chevy truck is a total dog down low. In 4 wheel drive it will not slip the wheels in a tight spot. Hold it to the floor and it stays on the converter, but won't move. Im not talking out rock crawling, beating or mudding, just wet grass, pulling out a a ditch. It is ok if you turn it 5,000 rpm's, but who wants to do that? It may have 350ish peak TQ but down low it has zero. Not a good truck engine.
Alot and maybe all of that is in the tune. It's torque management.
@ron Kay idk...5.3 runs decent and was mostly done for fuel economy. My uncles 03 rcsb 4x4 ran 15.8@87 bonestock. A few mods later runs 15.3@90 with a improvement in fuel economy. Not as quick as alot of todays trucks but it's peppy to drive.
5.7 Vortec usually makes more low speed torque than even a 6.0L.
@@chrisreynolds6520 old vortecs did well at low rpm.
I just put headers and td x pipe exhaust on my 6.0. That helped low rpm stuff pretty well. No draggy test on that yet.
My 99 Silverado with the 5.3 has plenty of low end torque. I rarely seen anything above 2k RPM. Around 2.5K when towing and it gets down the road easily.
Did you run the dual plane backwards?
yes you can
@@richardholdener1727 I guess it depends on the angle of the engine.
Would a summit Stage 4 .625/.605 lift 234/247 Due 113LSA work on that type 5.3 Carburetor dual intake combo for high way/Street
yes
Great video
crap cam for a n a ..
should be at least. 110 lsa....looseing. blowthroigh with 114 lsa......do you ever set squish????
#wrongcam
why dont u guys ever show 1500 rpm and up ? great vids you putt allot of work into this
I’m assuming it’s because nobody would need nor care how much power you make that low especially considering you’re not even at full throttle.
@@linoleumshake HIGHWAY speed climbing hills PUlling towing etc ? without spending extra 8000 grand or repair costs on a diesel
AT WOT?
Most trucks have stall speeds in the 1,200-1,600 rpm range.
Great video👍
I take it we could expect the similar results from a 4.6L Ford, (Wish Edelbrock made a RPM for it).
Can you run and overlay all of the stock ls engines so we can see where the power is model to model.
there is a video up comparing several already
Richard it's 3 am, you really don't sleep lmao
Having a 4.8 and a 5.3 in Identical Express Vans I can say the 4.8 is just too gutless on the bottom and gets the same MPG. Unless it's going in a really light car, get a 5.3 and build it.
Wheres that custom super long length ls intake that Drives torque in the 1500 5000 range ? You know the one that you haven't built yet.
The one with water jet 3/4" flanges and exhaust collector style single point collection per bank of 4
Them move 8 injectors away from the head to the other side of the motor for charge cooling ala crystler in 66.
You can do all that for turbo wiz bang,
Why not N.A.?
Would love to see a really long runner LS intake to replicate a TPI set-up. You’d think that would be a hot item for every truck owner.
@@wwmaness Ilmore made an intake for their 6.2 marine engine where they claim peak torque at 4400 and peak hp at 5600 that looks alot like the TPI intake to me, it has a lower and upper that bolt's together. I have one waiting to go on something.
MISSED ON A FEW OF THE DESIGN POINTS
@@oggp5951 Thanks for sharing! That makes a lot of sense that one was developed
for a marine application. Cool that you were able to get your handles on one as well. We know Richard would love to test it!
cool comparo
I still fail to understand... Why bother putting a carb on a LS? Always the same or less power with a carb (at the mid to high power level) and the stock intake and fuel rails end up allowing for much better power with a minor tune.
What about one of the "throttle body" carbs that are really nothing more than an air intake on top of the classic intake but still uses the stock (or better) EFI fuel rails? Does it still show the better down low power?
Simplicity. What you see here is a difference in manifolds. Not the difference in carb vs efi.
put the carb on a box that goes into where the throttle body bolts onto the factory manifold! We want to see!
have that set up-just haven't tested it yet
In new to the channel so this may be a an old question but what about a carter/Edelbrock carb?
When tuned they are good street carburetors, but the engine "never" deliver the same amount of torque and horsepower as when it has a good Performance Holley carburetor. I agree with Mr. Holdener, Brawler FTW.
I wait for the show since I don't sleep........
Richard, I think everyone would agree you are underpaid and giving out free lessons. Have you tried any of the rev9 turbos? I was curious about twin tx-72-68 on a 4.8l.
I have not run those turbos-you guys will get a chance to help out with the costs soon
@@richardholdener1727 ill be a patreon subscriber for sure. And if I get a few of the 72-68's ill send them for you to try out
That dual plane torque curve is flat as a board. There's absolutely no reason to dislike a dual plane on a 4.8. Screw the extra top end.
On a street car, that thing will be cherry. A nitrous plate and a TBI setup would be a total sleeper.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the guys at gm engineered the ls intakes to be a little more lazy down low to help with drivetrain wear 🤷♂️