No problem! Yeah hard to find the info all in one place to be explained in normal people terms. Took me some time in the rc car and drone world to collect all this info. Happy to share my legwork.
NGL..I will be one of the few that will ride it to work ..charge it and ride it back home...crazy thing is it is a 3 amp charger..and 48v 20mah battery..either way this way a great video brother
Midmotor vs. hubmotor... those play a role regarding some of your claims. As an example I have a 350w mid drive motor with a 36 x 15 and have no problems with climbing or hitting 28mph. It's not a struggle to do either.
In Australia where I live, the limit is 250w as for most of Europe. The philosophy being that we are talking about bicycles with electric motor ASSISTANCE, not motorcycles that you can peddle. I live in a fairly hilly area, where I would have to get off and push a normal bike in some areas, but my 250w ebike allows me to climb these hills at 16 -20 kmh which is more than satisfactory. I pedal my bike on flatter roads without power unless there is a headwind or if I am tired, in a hurry etc. I get as much as 150km from a charge on flatter ground, and 60 -70km in hilly areas if I manage things well. This is very satisfactory for me. A throttle would be nice sometimes, but these are not permitted on public roads and paths where I live, but otherwise I am more than happy with my ebike.
@@rymalia yeah I think that’s precisely the myth. Most folks want that but can’t really get away with it. I see a big influx of buyers regret coming up where people will start selling their used e-bikes. In most scenarios, people still need a car so it’s not fully a replacement and in the meantime, they’re still paying for registration/insurance. An ebike is a nice alternative to driving in certain cases but not quite a replacement for a car for most.
@@Funcentricthe eu rules are excessive. In the us it's what, ass what is electric to 15, class 2 is throttle to 20, class 3 is assist to 28. These are reasonable categories and let's face it, 350 watts on a hub drive isn't that crazy. Now there are a lot of "bikes" above that range that aren't really bikes and can hardly be pedaled but the 20 mph standard is supposedly based on what am average athletic person can pedal (seems reasonable) and when I'm on the road I appreciate being able to go above 20. Perhaps there is a happy medium. H.that said, 250 and 350 watt bikes aren't terrible, much lighter. All about what you expect them to do imo
@@GIedits-vf7re the problem is that there’s a minimum weight of battery and motor. If the combination isn’t efficient, then a weak motor will behave even weaker. Frame weight becomes that much more important when the motor is too small. Sounds funny but an electric bike has to be electric just to carry its own additional weight.
Awesome! Glad it helped. I know it can be so confusing. It definitely was for me. I should also mention that an ebike is like a car that loses horsepower as it burns fuel. Voltage is like power and that drops as the ebike or escooter loses juice. So batteries are actually super inefficient. At least a car loses weight as it burns fuel and the performance is still 100% even when the gas tank is almost empty. For an ebike, a 48v pretty much turns into a 36v by the time the battery is close to empty.
Is there a standard way to set up an ebike with multiple motors and batteries? I would ideally like to build a trike with a direct drive front hub motor and a mid drive motor to power the rear. I would be using this to tow various trailers. Trailer, corgo, bike, and operator will weigh a minimum of 650 lbs, but I would prefer to be able to move more like 900+ lbs. Could it also work to just use a switch to power one motor at a time.
good video, i'd like to know though, what is the ACTUAL process of the controller... what do u mean by drawing 25 amps then converting I to watts? what?
@@cjimenez1203 not sure what you mean. Your speedometer will tell you the real time speed. As far as its limits, it will depend on the rider weight, load, temperatures, grade, etc.
@@Funcentric When you buy a new e-bike, the information they provide mentions the speed, sometimes 20, 28, 35mph etc.. how they calculate the speed. ? Is it any relation with motor watts, battery volts, or battery ah ? Thanks
@@cjimenez1203 oh I see what you mean. I don’t know exactly but it does have to do with how many amps the controller allows the motor to draw. Many times the speed is actually limited by the controller amperage rating and not the motor itself. Higher amps means it’ll work harder and go faster. Less longevity though. Juiced bikes for instance offers an upgrade controller that does just that. Higher speed on throttle only and bigger punch off the line.
Yes, that’s true. But remember even hen you’ré not looking for assist, you’d be hauling the full weight of both the battery and motor 100% of the time. So very inefficient. You’ll likely have more energy to attack the hills with a bike that didn’t have that extra weight.
Also there’s something called voltage sag which affects smaller batteries much more. A bike with a small motor likely has a small battery and you’ll experience voltage sag a lot more. Basically less sustained power through hills. Haha. So yeah you’ll likely not really want an a bike for that use. The ebike components pretty much cancels itself out.
@@Funcentric I don't know what you mean my voltage sag but a full hub motor system if something like the x20 from mahle only adds 3.9 kg or so i think. Even at 36v the motor's gotta pump out enough power to offset 4kg surely. It seems to be understood that even for very tough climbs it doesn't take much watts of power to offset that kind of weight. If you left it on the lowest assist mode it could still add something for people who have bad knees or something where they can't pedal as hard as they'd like
@@Millicente if that’s the situation, I’d recommend a cadence sensor over a torque sensor. A torque sensor would demand more pressure to be put on the pedal to result in the same level of assist. The higher the ah, the lower the voltage sag. Practically all electric road bikes will have tiny batteries built into the frame. This is a problem not only for long term replacement needs of the battery but voltage sag. Voltage sag basically means that there’s a temporary drop in available voltage while under load. This is much more apparent with smaller ah sized batteries. You’ll experience much better sustained power through a higher ah rated battery. In other words, the design of an electric road bike by nature is much more susceptible to voltage sag which is the weak point in the technology we have currently. My electric cargo bike for instance experienced a very noticeable drop in performance once it goes under about 50% battery capacity and it’s got a 28ah battery.
WoW Just about the best E-Bike explanation I have never heard from an electric bicycle store and or vendor.
Haha thanks. I’m not either. Just a huge fan of electric rideables. Glad you found my video valuable.
Thank you so much! You saved me hours of research. All the best!
Yes, I did a lot of the grunt work and figured I may as well share it to make it worthwhile. I have a couple other videos on e bike purchasing.
Plain and simple...Thanks!
Cool! Glad you found it useful.
Thanks so much for the simplification!
very well explained, now i have more understanding on battery range and how it works, Thankyou.
No problem! Yeah hard to find the info all in one place to be explained in normal people terms. Took me some time in the rc car and drone world to collect all this info. Happy to share my legwork.
NGL..I will be one of the few that will ride it to work ..charge it and ride it back home...crazy thing is it is a 3 amp charger..and 48v 20mah battery..either way this way a great video brother
Great info! Tyvm 🎉
Midmotor vs. hubmotor... those play a role regarding some of your claims. As an example I have a 350w mid drive motor with a 36 x 15 and have no problems with climbing or hitting 28mph. It's not a struggle to do either.
You’re completely right. I was referring to hub motor, rear ones specifically.
In Australia where I live, the limit is 250w as for most of Europe. The philosophy being that we are talking about bicycles with electric motor ASSISTANCE, not motorcycles that you can peddle. I live in a fairly hilly area, where I would have to get off and push a normal bike in some areas, but my 250w ebike allows me to climb these hills at 16 -20 kmh which is more than satisfactory. I pedal my bike on flatter roads without power unless there is a headwind or if I am tired, in a hurry etc. I get as much as 150km from a charge on flatter ground, and 60 -70km in hilly areas if I manage things well. This is very satisfactory for me. A throttle would be nice sometimes, but these are not permitted on public roads and paths where I live, but otherwise I am more than happy with my ebike.
Some may say we are too free in the USA. I agree. The way the rules are now in America are straight up dangerous.
Start thinking of these vehicles not as enhanced bicycles, but as replacements for cars.
@@rymalia yeah I think that’s precisely the myth. Most folks want that but can’t really get away with it. I see a big influx of buyers regret coming up where people will start selling their used e-bikes.
In most scenarios, people still need a car so it’s not fully a replacement and in the meantime, they’re still paying for registration/insurance.
An ebike is a nice alternative to driving in certain cases but not quite a replacement for a car for most.
@@Funcentricthe eu rules are excessive. In the us it's what, ass what is electric to 15, class 2 is throttle to 20, class 3 is assist to 28. These are reasonable categories and let's face it, 350 watts on a hub drive isn't that crazy. Now there are a lot of "bikes" above that range that aren't really bikes and can hardly be pedaled but the 20 mph standard is supposedly based on what am average athletic person can pedal (seems reasonable) and when I'm on the road I appreciate being able to go above 20. Perhaps there is a happy medium. H.that said, 250 and 350 watt bikes aren't terrible, much lighter. All about what you expect them to do imo
@@GIedits-vf7re the problem is that there’s a minimum weight of battery and motor. If the combination isn’t efficient, then a weak motor will behave even weaker. Frame weight becomes that much more important when the motor is too small.
Sounds funny but an electric bike has to be electric just to carry its own additional weight.
very helpful, thank you!
Awesome! Glad it helped. I know it can be so confusing. It definitely was for me. I should also mention that an ebike is like a car that loses horsepower as it burns fuel. Voltage is like power and that drops as the ebike or escooter loses juice. So batteries are actually super inefficient. At least a car loses weight as it burns fuel and the performance is still 100% even when the gas tank is almost empty.
For an ebike, a 48v pretty much turns into a 36v by the time the battery is close to empty.
Thank you!
You’ré very welcome!
Is there a standard way to set up an ebike with multiple motors and batteries?
I would ideally like to build a trike with a direct drive front hub motor and a mid drive motor to power the rear. I would be using this to tow various trailers. Trailer, corgo, bike, and operator will weigh a minimum of 650 lbs, but I would prefer to be able to move more like 900+ lbs.
Could it also work to just use a switch to power one motor at a time.
Yes but that’s way beyond my expertise.
good video, i'd like to know though, what is the ACTUAL process of the controller... what do u mean by drawing 25 amps then converting I to watts? what?
Voltage x amps = watts
How can you calculate the e-bike speed ? Speed = distance/time
@@cjimenez1203 not sure what you mean. Your speedometer will tell you the real time speed. As far as its limits, it will depend on the rider weight, load, temperatures, grade, etc.
@@Funcentric When you buy a new e-bike, the information they provide mentions the speed, sometimes 20, 28, 35mph etc.. how they calculate the speed. ? Is it any relation with motor watts, battery volts, or battery ah ?
Thanks
@@cjimenez1203 oh I see what you mean. I don’t know exactly but it does have to do with how many amps the controller allows the motor to draw. Many times the speed is actually limited by the controller amperage rating and not the motor itself.
Higher amps means it’ll work harder and go faster. Less longevity though.
Juiced bikes for instance offers an upgrade controller that does just that. Higher speed on throttle only and bigger punch off the line.
What if you were just looking for a road bike that could give you some help on the hills/mountain roads? Surely even a 36v hub motor could be fine?
Yes, that’s true. But remember even hen you’ré not looking for assist, you’d be hauling the full weight of both the battery and motor 100% of the time. So very inefficient. You’ll likely have more energy to attack the hills with a bike that didn’t have that extra weight.
Also there’s something called voltage sag which affects smaller batteries much more. A bike with a small motor likely has a small battery and you’ll experience voltage sag a lot more. Basically less sustained power through hills. Haha. So yeah you’ll likely not really want an a bike for that use. The ebike components pretty much cancels itself out.
@@Funcentric I don't know what you mean my voltage sag but a full hub motor system if something like the x20 from mahle only adds 3.9 kg or so i think. Even at 36v the motor's gotta pump out enough power to offset 4kg surely. It seems to be understood that even for very tough climbs it doesn't take much watts of power to offset that kind of weight. If you left it on the lowest assist mode it could still add something for people who have bad knees or something where they can't pedal as hard as they'd like
@@Millicente if that’s the situation, I’d recommend a cadence sensor over a torque sensor. A torque sensor would demand more pressure to be put on the pedal to result in the same level of assist.
The higher the ah, the lower the voltage sag. Practically all electric road bikes will have tiny batteries built into the frame. This is a problem not only for long term replacement needs of the battery but voltage sag. Voltage sag basically means that there’s a temporary drop in available voltage while under load. This is much more apparent with smaller ah sized batteries. You’ll experience much better sustained power through a higher ah rated battery.
In other words, the design of an electric road bike by nature is much more susceptible to voltage sag which is the weak point in the technology we have currently.
My electric cargo bike for instance experienced a very noticeable drop in performance once it goes under about 50% battery capacity and it’s got a 28ah battery.
750 Watt is OVER standard, since the standard is LESS THAN 750 Watts!
500w with 750peak is what's most commonly advertised. I see a lot of 36v×15 and also 48v×10.4 is probably most common.
We don’t want normal we want 60mph at or better that will run all day
I would not buy a bike that is 250W
Well that’s just the motor spec. If you overvolted it with a good amount of amps, you could really get that thing spinning.
@@Funcentric I'm not that clever but I do know if you over volt it. Something has got to give.
@@adventcliff2040 motor’s lifespan likely will be reduced. And naturally, the battery will be discharging faster.
@@Funcentric I'm old i need more assistance