What does E-BIKE TORQUE really mean? Simple explanation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2020
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I like how you explain things in a way that almost everyone can understand.
Hi ozgur can you help me please with my ebike the back wheel hub dose not rotate freely?
Almost im in to building motor bikes ,I am looking at this s I had a problem with my frst ever e bike ,the wires coming out the spindle , due to there not being any torque arms on it .I sussed it out that the motor inside must have kept spinning when I grabbed the brake , I am now going to offertge guy who is selling the bikes but doesn't have a clue about the spindle needing tourque arms on them nice tight bolted on spacers type ,peace ✌
Did you fix you’re e bike problem ?
This guy is brilliant he explained this so eloquently, just how my school teachers did not
As a former science teacher, I appreciate the physics being taught here. Thank you for your awesome video channel!
I still
Don’t understand. And still in physics
@@laptech3767 That's because their kind can't help but be deceptive! Change the 250 watt motor to a 350 watt motor with the same 50 against the 500 watt motor and 25 and it would be easier to pedal up a hill in pedal assist with the 350 watt motor!
@@laptech3767 Whereas the 250 watt is half the 500 watt and 50 is half the 25 which would be equal! And these types of assholes don't do this on accident! It's their religious upbringing! They are truly sick fucks!
High Torque is needed for steep hill climbs and be aware of your motor speed - a low RPM motor generating a lot of torque takes lots of battery power. That's why mid-drive bikes are better for hills - you can shift to first gear - spin up hill with a faster motor RPM and lower Wattage. Display read 300W Mid-drive vs 850W Hub going up same hill. Of course I was pedaling, didn't want to overheat motors.
I installed a Bafang BBS02 mid-drive on a MTB and sweet ride. @ 40 lbs and fast. Usually keep the bike in 2nd or 3rd gear so easier on motor controller, got mine from Luna Cycle @ $450. I've done the Cheap Chinese Hubs and they're good if you just want to go cheap and do a lot of throttle. Nice on flats but battery killers on hills. Pay $250 more for a mid-drive kit - it's a better e-bike in the long run.
Look at a Tong Sheng TSDZ 2 mid-drive (80 NM @ $400 shipped, torque sensing pedals ) Open source software improves performance so it's like a Bosch - excellent commuter, torque sensing applies power when needed so longer range.
If you want a lot of power - BBSHD - 160 NM @ $800 - the Base motor is excellent for Upgrades. Check out "Andy Kirby" e-bike channel if you want to go really fast.
For me BBS02 - 120 NM @ $450, great bang for the buck.
"Ludicrous";)
Big fan of LunaCycle.
Note, a 250w mid drive motor can climb better than a 750w hub drive motor in certain situations because is uses the gears to increase torque at the wheel.
So when the hill gets too steep for the hub motors torque which is fixed the bike bogs down and stops, but the mid drive uses a lower gear ( slower speed) to swap speed for torque and can climb the hill still.
Personally I'm happy to just have a powerful enough rest hub drive to go up most hills and I pedal hard on the steeper ones.
I build only torque sensing mid-drives for my customers, but everything discussed here really means little. Even a junk bike, with a low power, low torque motor is still a ball to ride and probably all most people will ever actually need or use. I spoke to two of my customers yesterday that never get out of level one of five assist and they put in some pretty impressive miles.
@@MHH3180 I agree most people will never use the higher end bikes to anywhere near their potential.
I now have a Frey ex which uses bafang ultra so I can directly compare it with a cheap 1000w dd rear hub on a cheap full sus bike.
For 90% of the riding I do which is mild off road the hub is faster and easier to ride.
I literally have to go looking for harder trails to even start to test the capability of the ultra motor and the high end bike and it scares me tbh just how steep you have to get to get your money's worth lol.
I'm thinking a tosheng on a cheap bike would be perfectly ok for most people.
@@FlyingFun. yes, I have built approximately 75 bikes using The TSDZ2. All mine have to be legal everywhere. I use the 48 volt 500 watt as it is capable of 52/750 and the torque sensor means even the most feeble of grannies do not need a throttle. All that pretty much eliminates all my warrenty issues. I did have the world's third strongest man break a spindle I should have realized was loose and just this week I got a bad display from the distributor. I have had two former motorcycle riders complain their 700c hybrids don't accelerate like theor 20" folding 750 hub motored bikes, but I thunk cadence sensing appeals more to anyone looking to do as little pedaling as possible. Really though, I am finding a lot of my customers would do as well with something like The Retrospec Rev line. They aren't going to go great distances and the savings could buy a lot of extra batteries. The speed limit on rail trails, MUP's an in the bike lanes they ride is 15mph. They don't mind climbing hills a little slower. If they ever perfect puncture free tires, I may have to hang up my smock.
@@MHH3180 yes if building for paying customers I would 100% go tosheng for the reasons you state.
I've had a few people ask me to build them a similar build to mine with 1000w dd rear hub but I'm really reluctant because of the need for torque arms correctly installed being slightly different on every bike and the legal side of things so I passed but said I would help them do it if they wanted.
I've always had trouble with this stuff, but I still was able to follow your explanation. I'll watch it again to make it all sink in, thanks.
High Torque but low HP= A guy (motor) with a lot of brute strength but who can't run very fast. He's got the brute strength to easily run uphill with a heavy backpack but can't run super fast with or without the heavy backpack.
High Horse Power but low torque= A guy (motor) who doesn't have the brute strength but who can run much faster once he gets going. He can run really fast once he gets going but it takes him longer to reach his top speed and he can't carry a heavy backpack..
Big strong football linebacker= Lots of torque but slow, can't run fast (low HP)...
Slim fast running wide receiver=More horsepower than a linebacker so he can run faster but doesn't have the brute strength (low torque) that a line backer has.
"Anyone who had a tuogh year and an e-bike woould improve your situation..." This must be the one most amazing thing I have seen on TH-cam! What, what a kind person you are. I'm a bit sad that I missed this opportunity as I really hit the bottom and still struggling to raise myself up again, but I'm also very glad knowing that 5 others are happy and grateful thanks to you now! Wow, my heart just swell. May your life be blessed Micah...
Hey Buddy, Great video as always! 👍 👍
Agreed that the bike with more "power" would win the race BUT only if;
1. The race was not up a hill that was too steep for the bike with more power (and not too steep for the bike with more torque).
2. The distance of the race was such that there was enough time for the bike with more power to catch up with the bike that had more torque.
So if you live in London or New York for example and use the bike mainly in the city then because of all the stopping & starting (traffic lights & T junctions etc) and short runs, having decent torque on a bike would make a lot more sense that having poor torque and a few mph extra top speed.
We are not trying to be clever or funny, we are just trying to point out to other people that having a bike with say 2000w "Peak power" and "low torque" is not always better than having a bike with say only 1500w "peak power" and "high torque" if the bike with 1500w has a much better torque curve and you are using the bike around town or in a hilly area on a regular basis.
We wonder if some manufacturers just go for the higher power motor figures because a lot of people would look at the figures and assume that the bike with the highest power rating MUST be the best bike to get when in point of fact it really all depends on what you want from the bike in terms of performance and also where and for what you intend using the bike.
Thanks again for all that you do for the ebike community - You are "Top man" 👊 😎 👊
That's the first thing I noticed too. As you noted, you could put those two bikes on a hill, let's say a hill that is very steep - just steep enough to where the 25 N/M motor can't get the bike moving. The 50 N/M bike would win, just because it has enough torque to get going. It's the same reason that a 100 horsepower 750cc motorcycle engine would work badly in a car. Lots of power (because of high RPM), but much less torque than a 2 liter 100 horsepower (because of slower RPM) car engine.
You make a good point - Totally agree with you!
This is the reason a lot of people want more torque than what you get as standard on the Super73 bikes. Great bikes but poor torque.
Thanks for your reply & best wishes.
All you do is change to a smaller gear and the bike with more power wins.
@@nightRanger0077 Square piece of yellow paper with pink dots on one side
Exactly. As someone who lives in a hilly area, I am all about the torque. The street I live on is steep and my driveway even steeper. I have two bikes with 95nm of torque, one hub and one mid drive. The hub drive is 750W and the mid drive is 400W. Neither one will make it up my street, much less my driveway, without significant pedal input and it takes about the same time and effort to climb the hill between the bikes.
I've been riding an X7 ebike from Eahora for almost a year now and it's been fun. Happen to see your few videos and I've learned a lot new things. Thank you.
Love your videos! Planning a mini ebike project to do over the winter and your videos have helped a lot with increasing my understanding of everything on the topic.
How did it go?
Thank you for so clearly explaining the topics. You are extremely articulate and easy to understand. Especially for a non-technical person like myself.
Thanks for the lesson! Going to watch this again to make sure I catch everything!
Love the analysis, Micah. You always give us great layman explanations.
Really appreciate the info you provide. Truly a public resource. Thank you.
I am blessed to be able to work from home and I miss going to the park. (I am not going to the park as often as I did prior to March 2020.) I miss riding my Trikke, my folding bike, and even my 10-speed. This video helped me understand why it was so difficult to ride over the Brooklyn Bridge...my folding bike have small wheels and I did not expect the steep incline. I did not prepare myself to go faster so I ended up walking my bike to the peak of the bridge. I did have fun riding downward, though.
Great explanation of power and torque. You're an excellent teacher Micah.
You are just the master of explaining complicated things so they appear simple and understandable
I’d like help determining what minimum is required of a geared hub motor or a mid-drive motor for ascending steep hills. In other words, what should I look for in either type of motor to get up a 10% grade, 15% grade, 20%?
Micah, Thank You for the great work you do! The video on torque was very helpful, the simple equations showing on the screen "example Torque =Force x Distance makes a big difference in teaching, when I see that I pause the video and write it down so I can retain this bit of science and relate it to other people. Thank You! I am excited and motivated to understand about electric bikes, motorcylce and utiilty vehicles. All The Best! Mitch
Another absolutely fantastic vid.Thanks from Seattle.
Excellent explannation! Easy, simple and clear!!!
Great job Micah, physics if fun! Thanks for another concise and comprehensible explanation of a complex subject 👍
Even my 6 year old son understand everything the way you explained that. Great video once again!
You are very thorough explaining this stuff for sure. Been following you a long time.
Torque+Power=WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! Micah you are One interesting Cat!!! Not just for what you do here on TH-cam but the things you've done in your life. Have great respect for you!!!
Thanks for a clear & concise explanation. Much better than my Physics 201 instructor!
Thank you so much for your service.
Always enjoy your videos
Love your bike in the background by the way, I just got the same bike in the same color 2 weeks ago!...I just recently started watching ebike stuff on TH-cam and had no idea about your giveaway but what an awesome idea. My bike was a reward to myself and a way of getting an important part of my life back. Last summer I entered a rehabilitation treatment program for alcoholism and lived for 4 months in a supervised environment with 12 other guys. It was tough but I did it and now I'm in a transitional housing program at the same place but have my own apartment. Before life got out of control on me I used to cycle alot and that got forgotten about completely when my misguided priorities changed. Now that I've been sober more than 9 months I bought the radmission to get back into riding and decided to go with an ebike as over the last 5 years or so I did an amazing amount of damage in general to myself. Riding any distance without the assistance just isn't happening and with the pure joy of getting back out and getting exercise I can slowly rebuild my body. That bike really is life changing for me....just curious about what kind of radbikes you gave away?
Your brother from Morocco, I thank you for all this valuable information
Thanks for the explanation of Torque and Power.
Thank you for the explanation. It clears it up for me.
Please do more of these educational videos
Good job explaining the difference between torque and power,
Great explanation on Torque and Power. Good day everyone.
Great explanation of power,keep vids coming!
i was interested all the way through but I'm guessing not everyone made it to the end. Good information. Would like you to talk about the different geared motors available and how gearing fits into the equation. Thanks Micah.
Needed information per application... thanks, Micah, for sharing!
I always think of these conversion kits for bikes. Taking a 55 Newton meter Torque 1500 watt motor and placing an aluminum front fork with torque braces for the axle. The rated stress test for the metal shearing off is 45 N meters for aluminum and 50 N meters for carbon steel. How long is it likely to last before it suddenly shears off of the bike.
My biggest problem, as a wrench, is that my mid-drive customers can and do usually take care of their own flats, but hub drives are really heavy and have various mounting options that vary in their effectiveness. I hate that I have to charge more.
Love your videos! Very informative. Thank you.
Thanks for giving such valuable information.
From India
Nice job on the explanations very easy to understand.
Thank you. The video is helpful to understanding how torque works in relation to ebikes. One suggestion (not a critique, but just a thought): It may help if you had a diagram to illustrate the examples. Sometimes it is beneficial to visualize things - I know it helps me. Thanks again.
Thanks for another informative video! Keep it up Micah
Nice! I do appreciate these lessons
Nice recap of the concepts.
Great content as usual. Thanks for the information.
Excellent explanation's really informative and I feel like i'm learning loads for my new 750w ebike. Thank's 👌🚴♂️🚴♀️
Thanks for making those books. I plan on buying the one on lithium batteries, as I am planning on building my own battery with the vruzend kit for a electric go kart.
Nice & simple explanation 👍🏻
I've decided I'm gonna order one of your books. I could use two though!
Love your channel!
Great explanation!
thanks for this explanation, worth subscribing
Thanks for the excellent explanation.
Subbed
Congrats on 137K Subs!!!
Great explanation.
Thx. Nice explanation of power v torque.
Love the video!!! Can’t wait for giveaway results!!!
Thanks for the info I knew these things meaning a car mechanic but I like how you explained it with me bikes. It's like for example ebikeling 750w geared hub has 50 nm torque. The 1200 w direct drive motor has 30 nm they're 1500 watt has 40 nm. All I want to do is 28 to 30 mph no need to go any faster. I have a 350 watt 48 volt 10.4ah Rattan Challenger I've got $2,948 Miles on the bike. I get 25 miles throttle only. Pretty much flat ground here in South Florida. the Cruise control function is sweet I think it should be on every ebike. Because once I'm doing 20 to 22 mph after 2 seconds it kicks in I don't know how to touch the throttle. The ideal thing is that I pull less amps anywhere between 6.3 to 9 amps depending on wind. That's the range that pedal assist seems to work at when you're up to the same as speed 20 mph so it extends the life of your battery I recommend a cruise control. That's why I'm looking at the ebikeling kits and bafang, csc etc. I have a giant Rome 3 it's around $1,000 bike good condition I want to turn it into a e-bike it has 700c 38c 28 wheels I want to put wider maybe 50c 55c. Trying to figure out the kit. Luna took the same model bike put a mid drive on it I like the mid drive concept but I don't like how it burns through parts. And the problem with derailing all the time. I want 48 to 52 volt a 750 w or up I just want to bike that'll do 28 mile an hour. Any suggestions would help recommendations on a good unit thanks
Thank you man!! That was very insightful!
Beautiful explanations!
Next, break down the torque output of geared hub, vs mid drives vs direct drive and the effect of wheel diameter, tire size.
Hard ask. I'd love to see that breakdown too. So many variables to be considered. The only thing that remains constant in your question is the torque of the specific motor in question. If you're asking about torque delivered to the ground there is some serious math to be considered in your question.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 true enough.
This is the best video I've watched simplifying the plus minus of mid vs hub bikes th-cam.com/video/Ia8lDLcN4q8/w-d-xo.html
Excelente explicación, como siempre! Gracias!
Very clear explanation
Good stuff, please keep 'em coming!
Good analysis!
Great lesson..
Good job of explaining. 👍
Very informative video
Keep them coming
Thanks mate very useful info
I've actually not had a bad year so I won't enter - but good on you for trying to help somebody out.
should have explained that if you have two ebikes of the same power, the one with more torque will have less speed, while the one with more speed will have less torque.
May the forces be with you micah. Youre a jedi torque master.
Geat info.....always appreciated.
Maybe you should look into offering homeschool math n science intro? I homeschooled my adult kids and you could help a lot of kids… great podcast
well done with the explination.
Cool explanation 😎
This really helped explain this to my mom
Very good information
Nice way to explains things, thanks
Thanks Again.. very clear!
What a powerful message!
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
😁
Another good video!
Happy Holidays!
Just blow my mind. thank you
once again, great information!
Awesome video
Thanks again. Hope you are having a great holiday?
Heyyyyy, well done, nice explanation!
Great video
this was great! thanks!
GOOD INFO. THANKS
Good job!
Very interesting, thanks!!
Great Video!!!
Great stuff, I now have more than 1 e bike. Maybe one day you can do a video on how to hook up a solar panel using an MPT charge controller like on your Father's Kayak to keep a 48V battery topped up. I am in the process of building a delta trike using pedal power to the left wheel and having a geared hub motor on the right. It will have a similar "roof" to the kayak and since I have several Lithium ion batteries it would be nice to be able to run charge into my backup. I can build mechanical items but for sure weak on the electronic side
Intuitively if you want to go faster (power) you can either pedal faster (RPM) or go up a gear and pedal harder (torque).
I really like these explanation videos, but I'd like to suggest more on-screen graphics. It helps me to "see" what you're talking about. LOL Thanks!
Noted!
Interesting lesson :)
1500W on a 20 inch wheel is pretty insane as i have found out...
Did you ever do a vid on the torque arm and how to use and install them? for both front geared motors, DD motors and the rear motors?
Is it possible to connect in parallel two 48v battery? To get more amps
Yes no problem my ebike its working with two battery 36v conected in parallel
You should check out isolators utilizing diodes to keep one battery from charging the other causing issues down the line
Getting more amps from 2 batteries is possible but your controller needs to be capable of using those amps. Check your controller specs before proceeding.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 having too much potential amperage from the battery is a good thing, causes less voltage drop. You only need to worry if you don't have enough possible constant amp output rating to match. Kinda like difference between a 10 gallon fuel tank and a 30 gallon fuel tank.