Why is it I am the ONLY one who brings up CHRST BAPTISM ??? All “HEARD a VOICE” from Heaven !! GOD said “THIS is MY SON in whom I am WELL PLEASED” JESUS was not a Ventriloquist!!!!!!!!!-IT WAS HIS HEAVENLY FATHER!!!!! ❤️❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼
And also the witness of Stephen who saw God the Father with Jesus Christ standing on His right side just before he was stoned to death. Two individuals. A child could understand this concept while reading the Bible but this shows the power of influence of "false traditions". Teach it long enough, it must be true. We are seeing this today in politics. The Book of Mormon warns us so many times of 'false traditions'.
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the (Word, & the Word) was with [God], & the {Word was God}.” John 1:14 14 & the (Word was made flesh), & {dwelt among us}, & we beheld [His Glory, the Glory] as of (the only begotten) of [the Father], full of (Grace) & {Truth}. John 3:16 16 {[For God] so loved the world}, that [He gave His] only (Begotten Son), that {whosoever believeth in (Him)} Should not perish, but have,, {Everlasting Life}. John 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, "I am" the [Way] the {Truth}, & the (Life): no man cometh unto the [Father], but by (Me). 1 John 5:6-8 6 This is (He that came by [water] & (blood), even,, Jesus Christ); not by [water] only, but by [water] & (blood). & it is the, {Spirit that beareth witness because,, the Spirit is Truth}. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the [Father], the (Word), & the {Holy Ghost}: & these three are "ONE". 8 & there are three that bear witness in earth, the {Spirit}, & the [water], & the (blood): & these three agree in "ONE". John 14:17 17 Even {the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, & shall be in you}. John 4:23-24 23 But the hour cometh, & {now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the [Father] in {Spirit & in Truth}: for the [Father] seeketh such to worship Him}. 24 {{God is a Spirit}: & they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit & in Truth}. Deuteronomy 6:4 4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: [God] = The [Way] {Holy Ghost} =The {Truth} (Christ) & The (Life) Shalom & JAH Bless…
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) was officially organized on April 6, 1830 in Fayette, New York. However, the church's origins can be traced back to a series of events that began in 1820, including the First Vision, when Joseph Smith was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ. In 1829, Smith was also visited by a resurrected John the Baptist, who gave him the Aaronic Priesthood. Smith then published The Book of Mormon in 1830, which is considered to be the official founding of the religion. The LDS church is characterized by its belief in continuing revelation, family life, and missionary work. It also teaches that Jesus is the church's leader, and that the church itself is a reestablishment of the primitive church that existed under Jesus and his Apostles.
@@davidjanbaz7728 I don’t think it’s their ‘counterfeit’ apostasy; it happened 1.5 to 2 millennia ago. And it was definitely a real apostasy. They retained some truth, and lost much…aka an ‘apostasy.’
@@thebenplatt I’m really just trying to learn. My faith in Mormonism isn’t big and I’d lie to explore other faiths. This scripture to me seems pretty clear that they are separate. But not to you, seems like you’re interpreting it differently. I’m interested on how you think about this. Trying to learn more and explore a new church.
When you actually do a careful read of the Bible it will be obvious the word Trinity isn't explicitly found in it. With closer examination you will discover that the explanation of the trinity isn't explicitly used in the Bible, or more accurately the definition of it. The reason for it was that Trinity wasn't first introduced until about 150 AD. After the two Nicene Creeds did it grow into a more mainstream doctrine. If anything, this should be evidence of the need of prophets and apostles for continued revelation.
@@johnrowley310 Your comment shows exactly why both the Bible (stick [scroll] of Judah) AND The Book of Mormon (stick [scroll] of Ephriam) must, as Ezekiel saw in vision, "become one in thine hand" Both collections of scripture are critical in learning truth. Check out the entire 37th Chapter of Ezekiel, particularly from verse 15 to the end. Note the timeline of events surrounding these two records being brought together.
Nicene Creed would be like Biden or Trump getting people together to make doctrine for the church. They would have zero priesthood authority to do so, just like Constantine had zero priesthood authority to do so.
And I also believe this to include Heavenly Mother since females had to be created dif than male which is the gender of God as Jesus taught that when he said when you have seen me you have seen the father.
For anyone thinking the “LDS view” is not correct on this topic, you need to think again. The word Godhead was used in ancient times not trinity because the trinity was invented in the year 325 CE. Latter-day Saints have the beliefs of the earliest Christians before the creation of the Nicene creed. I testify the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church restored upon the earth. I testify that we do have a living prophet today who guides us and teaches us about everything. I testify Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and of the Restoration. I testify the Book of Mormon is true. I testify Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. I testify that Elder Holland is right about the Godhead. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
I testify the Mormon church is false. I testify that Smith was a convicted con man that lied to Emma, the church and the world. I testify anyone who believes in the Mormon doctrine will die in their sins and will never see christ. May God have mercy on your lost soul...
The term "God" was not even invented until Gothic translations of the Bible were written in the forth century. The term "Eternal" and "Eternity" were not applied to God's nature the Bible until the Latin translations of the Bible in the fifth century replaced "Eon" for ages of time with the Latin words. God being called "Eternal" or "Everlasting" is not from the language or words of the original New Testament authors-- but came from the Latin Fathers during the era that Mormons claim was in apostasy. Nevertheless, the LDS Standard works and latter-day revelations is full of descriptions of God being Eternal, which is a Latin/Roman Church term. The Sacrament Prayer historically of D&C 20 and Moroni appear to be Trinitarian using Catholic invented terms to describe the Trinity from the Medieval ages. The LDS religion's claim to be a restoration of original ancient CHristianity is completely unfounded.
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I've NEVER believed in the trinity. Anyone who's simply read (and UNDERSTOOD) the Bible will agree!👍🏻 Thank you brother Holland 🙏🏼💜🕊
Yes, living apostles > www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/quorum-of-the-twelve-apostles?lang=eng Christ built the foundation of his church upon the foundation of apostles and prophets
As one who studies the ancient Hebrew Bible, the first line of Genesis does not say "God created the Heavens and the Earth," it says "The Gods created the Heavens and the Earth." You know where else we find that? The Book of Abraham, another translation given through Joseph Smith. Take what you will from this, but I believe Joseph Smith to be a true prophet and God to be three distinct individuals, one in purpose, but not body.
Mathew 3,16-17 and the spirit of God came and dwell upon Jesus. Then the Voice of God from Heaven spoke. This is my beloved son in whom im well pleased. 👉 3 separate beings. Ome in Heaven, one on earth and one ascending upon Jesus. 3 location and 3 beings and One Lord Almighty.
The Trinity-busting scripture is John 17:11. "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE."
There is both evidence for and against the interpretation of the trinity for the beliefs and interpretations of the authors who wrote these passages all had differences in belief and interpretation as well as us whom the book was addressed to. Given these multiple layers of interpretation, it may be difficult to find the underlying truth in which, instead of relying on our own selves to interpret the text correctly without error, we must first consult our interpretations and coming to a conclusion consider asking the Lord in prayer if said conclusion is right, and the Holy Spirit will confirm it to us.
@jeranuspeedrunsn The apostles were much more unified than you make them out to be. Trinitarian interpretation relies on an acknowledgment and embracement of neoplatonic philosophy, philosophy that had yet to be conceived, and even if it were conceived the Jews, which every apostle at the time was, would have rejected it as pagan and idolatrous.
@@CalledtoShareAnd R God Most High: NOT 2 gods of bodies composed of fine matter with 1 who got short changed . Oh, and all the Heavenly mother Eternally pregnant demigods.
The official title of The Book of Mormon is “The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ.” Its purpose is to help us come to know Jesus. Jesus is mentioned 3,925 times throughout the book, which equates to a mention every 1.7 verses, on average.
@@pandaxx2932 You are mistaken, the Book of Mormon with its books like the bible was written from 600 bc to 400 AD and it has only been interpreted one time. If you trust the Catholic Church to decide what books are to be included in the bible then more power to you friend, lol. The original pages of the Bible, also known as autographs, do not exist because the books were originally written on papyrus scrolls by hand, and the material was easily destroyed. However, there are thousands of handwritten copies of the Bible, or manuscripts, that still exist and can be found in museums, libraries, and private collections around the world. Some of the most notable manuscripts include: Codex Sinaiticus This 4th-century Greek manuscript, discovered in 1844 and 1859 at St. Catherine's Monastery on Mount Sinai, is the earliest known manuscript of the Christian Bible. It includes a complete New Testament, the Letter of Barnabas, and most of the Shepherd of Hermas. It is now in the British Museum in London. The Popes were totally evil and ignorant on some things for example. Even as the flames licked his feet, the polymath Giordano Bruno refused to recant. Now, at least he's gotten an expression of remorse from the Catholic Church. On 17 February--the 400th anniversary of Bruno's auto-da-fé at the hands of the Inquisition in Rome--Cardinal Angelo Sodano declared the heretic's execution to be a "sad episode." Bruno, a 16th century Dominican friar, was expelled from country after country for heretical views that ranged from dabbling in magic to denying the divinity of Christ. What endears him to modern scientists, though, is that Bruno embraced Copernicus's heliocentric model of the solar system and even went one step further: He declared that Earth was just one of an infinite number of worlds, each perhaps inhabited by creatures entirely foreign to us--and to the church. After a long imprisonment, Bruno was burned at the stake in 1600. It is unclear whether Bruno's cosmology played a role in his condemnation, but he has since become a symbol of a church crusade against the progress of science. On the anniversary of Bruno's execution, Cardinal Sodano, the second-ranking cleric in the Catholic Church, called the incident an "atrocious death." However, he noted that the Inquisition had tried and condemned Bruno with then-common methods--including torture. Even though some aspects of those procedures are "a reason of deep regret for the church today," he said in a statement, people should not judge those who condemned Bruno: The inquisitors, Sodano maintains, "had the desire to serve freedom and promote the common good and did everything possible to save his life." The Catholic Church condemned and executed two cosmologists for heresy: Giordano Bruno in 1600 and Galileo Galilei in 1633: Giordano Bruno In 1600, the Catholic Inquisition condemned the Dominican friar for his heretical views, which included denying the divinity of Christ, embracing Copernicus's heliocentric model of the solar system, and declaring that Earth was just one of an infinite number of worlds. Bruno was burned at the stake in Rome's Campo de' Fiori. In 2000, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the second-ranking cleric in the Catholic Church, expressed remorse for Bruno's execution. Galileo Galilei In 1633, the Italian astronomer and physicist was put on trial for defending his argument that the Earth and other planets revolve around the sun. Galileo's provocative style and personality landed him in trouble, and his technical argument didn't win the day.
@@pandaxx2932 As you can see here, the bible has been translated for hundreds of years with men making mistakes all the time as we know there has only been one perfect man on the earth, Jesus the Christ. the sheer evidence of thousands of Christain Churches who fight and argue of the interpretation of doctrine proves this statement. Many plain and precious things are missing from the bible. You do not know your bible like you think you do. The Bible's canon, or the books that are considered divinely inspired and belong in the Bible, has been defined by various councils, synods, and popes over time: Not to mention the council of Nicea in 325 bc where they held a vote and decided that the Trinity doctrine was true even though the original church of Jesus Christ did not believe in the Trinity doctrine 382 AD: The Council of Rome, led by Pope Damasus I, established the Catholic Church's 73-book canon, which includes 46 books in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. 393 AD: The Synod of Hippo reaffirmed the canon. 397 AD: One of the Councils of Carthage reaffirmed the canon. 419 AD: Another Council of Carthage reaffirmed the canon. 1431-1449 AD: The Council of Florence reaffirmed the canon. 1545-1563 AD: The Council of Trent reaffirmed the canon as an article of faith, and also defined it as the Vulgate based on Jerome's Latin. The Council of Trent was a response to attacks on the canon by early Protestant leaders, including Martin Luther. 1563 AD: The Thirty-Nine Articles established the canon for the Church of England. 1647 AD: The Westminster Confession of Faith established the canon for Calvinism. We are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints with the restored gospel and church identical to the way Jesus set his church up. We are the only Church in the World with the name of Jesus Christ in it and we claim his divinity and his authority to perform the saving ordinances. There are only two churches on the earth, the true church of Jesus Christ and the Church of Satan.
@@pandaxx2932 What Bible was used before the King James Version? Geneva Bible From 1568 until the printing of the King James Bible in 1611, the Bishops' Bible was effectively the official version of the Church of England. A conglomerate work of sixteen English and Welsh clergymen, it was a revision of the Great Bible, but with the recent Geneva Bible also in mind.
My Testimony is that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God.. I believe and know that Our Father is the Eternal Father and that we have been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who at the moment is in Spirit and witnesses of the Son and The Father.
U obviously don't know about the TWO Powers in Heaven israelite theology of the 2nd temple period. The Visible YHWH and Invisible YHWH R both in Genesis 19:24 They Both R called by the same Name: as Jesus states in John 17 : He has the Same name as the Father ( YHWH).
It is true what the Apostle Jeffery Holland has so eloquently confirmed in his talk. We follow the same Jesus that is in the New Testament. The actual only begotten son of His Father in Heaven and Mary.
you follow the same Jesus that allowed for drinking wine? you follow the same Jesus that said we aren't married in heaven? you follow the same Jesus that said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church? cuz mormons believe you can't drink wine. mormons believe in marriage in heaven and mormons believe Christ's church failed and had to be restored. clearly you don't believe in the Jesus in the new testament if you believe mormonism
you follow the same Jesus that allowed for drinking wine? you follow the same Jesus that said we aren't married in heaven? you follow the same Jesus that said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church? Yes, yes, and yes. I don't agree with your interpretations. For example, when you state the Jesus said we aren't married in heaven, was he talking about the ceremony of marriage or the state of marriage?
To any mainstream Christian here, I have a question for you. If you dive deep into the difference between the LDS understanding of the Godhead and the Trinity, the differences aren't as far as they are at first glance. Most importantly, Latter-day Saints believe the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three beings united in one partnership (ie. one Godhead). That's at least an understandable idea. And it does NOT contradict any Bible verse that states the three are one. Trinitarians believe the unity between them is complete in every way, but still allowing them to be separate. It's an incomprehensible idea, and the very words of the Athanasian Creed itself refer to them as "incomprehensibles". From a philosophical perspective, please tell me why it is important for them to have that kind of oneness. Why does the doctrine need to be that their unity is an abstract mystery that is above and beyond human understanding? I don't see how making the image of God incomprehensible is a compliment to him. For Latter-day Saints, our understanding of the Godhead is not only more consistent with the Bible, but it's an idea that can be understood, so we know of the love the Father has for the Son, so we know what the purpose of the Son was in coming to save us all, and what the Holy Ghost does in helping us along in our life. Knowing the nature of the Godhead is a beautiful thing to us, and the Trinity wants to transform it into something inconceivable for no real reason. Please tell me why you think it's necessary?
As an non-LDS Christian, I don't recognize either concept of God in the OT or the NT. I recognize God the Father and His Son as the only two divine beings in all the universe and the only two beings worthy of worship. None other is worthy or ever will be worthy.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 The Holy Spirit is important but I do not recognize the Holy Spirit as a being. It is the power and presence of God. I do not pray or worship the Holy Spirit, only God and His Son. Peace 🕊️
The doctrine of the Trinity is important for a multitude of reasons, but the main reason is that it maintains that there is only one God. Not simply one godhead made up of three gods united, but of only one God. We profess that there is one divine being made up of three divine persons. The reason it is incomprehensible is because our earthly minds cannot grasp exactly how three different persons make up one being. We ourselves are one person in one being. The closest we can come to understanding this is in marriage as we see Jesus’ teaching in Mark 10: 7-8. How can two separate people become one flesh? Even that is an incomplete representation of the Trinity, since as all too often is the case, husband and wife are not always one in purpose. As a Trinitarian, I don’t view it as absolutely necessary to understand how the Trinity works. What I do view as necessary though is understanding that there is only one God, and he has revealed himself in three distinct persons.
Hi this is Tom, when you open the last dispensation, truths have to be told. False doctrines have to be corrected that were preached so falsely and widely, and the Godhead was one of those false doctrines taught. So, if you open the last dispensation, why would God the Father come down with His Son and appear to a young boy? Jesus could have and has done this alone, He has done this millions of times by himself, so why both of them, why now?? The answer is they both came down to testify and show the young boy, Joesph Smith, that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two separate beings. So that Joesph Smith could finally testify that they are not all in one, Godhead. TO SHOW THE TRUTH THAT GOD THE FATHER AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ARE TWO SEPERATE AND DISTINCT BEINGS. Now that testimony of Joesph Smith about the Godhead can finally be told firsthand. They are two separate and distinct beings.
@@truthbebold4009 John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. **The Son can do NOTHING OF HIMSELF, BUT WHAT HE SEETH THE FATHER DO. John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. **for my Father is greater than I?? Jesus just told you I does nothing for himself and what he seeth the Father do. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. **Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Jesus only does what the Father commands. Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. **Jesus asking Father, remove this cup from me?? why can't or why WILL Jesus not remove it himself?? If I was going to hit my finger with a hammer, why would I ask you if I can't?? If I was acting on my own, why would I ask you anything? Unless you were in charge. Why ASK??
Bible says there is only one God. Only God can forgive sins as it is God’s law. Jesus forgives sin and only through him can you be redeemed. Jesus say multiple times “I am” which means God, hence why they tried to stone him. Jesus is the Word. And the Word was there before creation. Jesus says only the son knows the father and the father the son. You are confining God’s nature and being to your limited human understanding and saying what he cannot be. Do you know him? Matthew 7 is a good read. And logically, many men love power and women, even doing evil things to obtain it. So you tell me the Bible is corrupt which is supported by archeological events/tablets/scrolls dating back thousands of years and practiced daily by billions over those years but I should trust some dude in America reading out of a hat (and couldn’t do it again verbatim) is correct and basically the whole Earth of people today who aren’t Morman are going to Hell? And they think they’re going to be Gods and run off and make their own universes? I don’t know God’s nature but I know man’s nature. Dude wanted azz and power. I can understand for people to make up whatever they want to believe but to use my Bible and twist it that bad I must say is hardcore blasphemy.
@@truthbebold4009if you can't believe in here then I believe in redemption of the dead. Then I will be happy if you don't reject it there. Hope you will find the truth soon before your body and spirit separated. Take care!
Thanks for posting this. The most basic, but important information in the world. I’ve often wondered how others-if they’ve really read the scriptures-can believe they are one being. There are so many scriptures (Elder Holland gave some examples of these) that would support the belief of separate beings, but one in purpose, and no scriptures that support them being ‘one being.’
Thank you Brother Holland. When I was younger I belonged to another church. When I was taught about the trinity. I did not understand it, it made no sense to me. Three separate beings just makes sense.
We are unable to understand God, it makes sense, that it doesn't make sense. God wouldn't be God if we could fully comprehend Him. We can NOT make God in our image when we were created in His image.
It’s probably much more useful to refer to the Athanasian Creed, and similarly Greek-influenced creeds, rather than to say “the Trinity,” per se. I think most Christians think LDS people are entirely rejecting the preeminence of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. But that’s definitely not what we mean. The fact that so few Christians have seriously studied Christian metaphysics makes this problem even worse. Need to stop talking around each other.
That's part of it for sure, but the thing that many can't really get over is how we have additional mythology regarding the Heavenly Council, Pre-mortality and the co-eternality of divine and human intelligence. That's how you get the shock and horror at the "Jesus and Satan are brothers!!!!" stuff. Their tenants rely on so many pre-suppositions regarding the qualities they think God has to fulfill to be God, while we come at it from a completely different angle. They're God, by definition, needs to be ineffable in some aspect, non-physical, bereft of passions and parts, Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent. We, by contrast, acquaint ourselves with ritual covenants and laws, from which we derive the aspects and nature of God. We have a philosophy, not as a primary tool of inquiry, but as a secondary and adjunct derivative of the priesthood, commandments and covenants. It could be said, that all scripture is derived in a similar way, as the articulation of the otherwise acted.
It makes no sense that Jesus would pray to himself; ask himself to remove the bitter cup from himself, asked himself why he forsake himself on the cross, told Mary he hadn't ascended to himself after his resurrection, performed a ventriloquist act at his baptism, Stephen saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God. If we are, as Christ pleaded, to be one with Him as He is one with God, that we may become one with them, that makes us God if they are the same being then so must we be. This makes no sense. I believe in the biblical God & Christ. Not in an "incomprehensible" man-made creed that came about some 400 years after Christ.
What a beautiful and true doctrine taught here! The Holy Ghost has revealed this marvelous truth to my soul. I am so thankful to really understand and embrace this knowledge. Thank You!
If the doctrine is really false, I would not have the power given to me by the Holy Ghost. If the doctrine is false, I cannot believe anything in the Bible or the Book of Mormon. If all this is false, I do not know who Jesus Christ is. Therefore, I testify and know for myself that the gospel has been restored to the earth, just as it was in the past. Christ lives, and He knows that I know as the light that shines in the noonday sun. I bear my solemn witness to the world of the reality of this marvelous and marvelous work. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen!
@@CarlosJose-gv6px With a couple hundred years of Mormon genealogy , pioneer stock , in my blood I can testify to Zero truth to the Mormon gospel , So what I’m hearing you say under your breath is , If a fourteen year old boy that grew up to be a false prophet , Deuteronomy chapter 13:1-5 , Then went on to be a polygamist , Polyamorous prophet conned me how could anything possibly be true , I can see why your in that church , start researching , most of the good stuff the Mormon church has on the website
There churches own website , they just know what would be shocking to most people , is nothing to the average Mormon due to the brainwashing ( WE THANK THEE OH GOD FOR A PROFIT ! ) $ 100-150 billion in a Rainey day fund , Keep paying fools
Constatine called it the trinty but before it was just called the godhead And it was around at the council of jerusluem in the book of acts Before they just used the the term godhead to describe it not trinity
To be baptized in the son, the father and the Holy Spirit I don’t know why the notion of Jesus calling himself equal with the father is somehow anti Bible
Here are a few quotes on the invention and development of the Nicene Trinity over 1000 years or so (I have no idea what Christian sect these writers belonged. It’s been too many years since I compiled this list): It is clearly impossible (if one accepts historical evidence as relevant at all) to escape the claim that the later formulations of dogma cannot be reached by a process of deductive logic from the original propositions and must contain an element of novelty. Wiles, Making of Christian Doctrine, p. 4. The emergence of the full trinitarian doctrine was not possible without significant modification of previously accepted ideas. Wiles, Making of Christian Doctrine, p. 144. there is no trinitarian doctrine in the Synoptics or Acts. (in the New Testament) nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead. in John there is no trinitarian formula. Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 14, 16, 29. These passages give no doctrine of the Trinity, but they show that Paul linked together Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They give no trinitarian formula...but they offer material for the later development of trinitarian doctrine. ...(Paul) has no formal trinitarian doctrine and no clearcut realization of a trinitarian problem, but he furnishes much material for the later development of a trinitarian doctrine. Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 22-23. There is no formal doctrine of the Trinity in the New Testament writers, if this means an explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. But the three are there, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and a triadic ground plan is there, and triadic formulas are there....The Biblical witness to God, as we have seen, did not contain any formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, any explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 32, 35. The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament. P. Achtemeier, ed., Harper's Bible Dictionary, p. 1099. This double series of texts manifests Paul's lack of clarity in his conception of the relation of the Spirit to the Son. Paul shares with the OT a more fluid notion of personality than the later theological refinements of nature, substance, and person. His lack of clarity should be respected for what it is and be regarded only as the starting point of later development. J. Fitzmyer, Pauline Theology: A Brief Sketch, p. 42. Trinitarian discussion, Roman Catholic as well as other, presents a somewhat unsteady silhouette. Two things have happened. There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. R.L. Richard, "Trinity, Holy," in New Catholic Encyclopedia 15 vols., 14:295. There is in them (the Apostolic Fathers), of course, no trinitarian doctrine and no awareness of a trinitarian problem. Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, p. 44. The Church had to wait for more than three hundred years for a final synthesis, for not until the Council of Constantinople (381) was the formula of one God existing in three coequal persons formally ratified. J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, pp. 87-88. Where the doctrine (of the Trinity) was elaborated, as e.g. in the writings of the Apologists, the language remained on the whole indefinite, and, from a later standpoint, was even partly unorthodox. Sometimes it was not free from a certain subordinationism. F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingstone, eds., The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, 2nd ed., p. 1394.
@@JD-pr1et All that to say , We know you don’t believe in the Bible that’s why you have the BOM, with a little research , you’ll find zero historical evidence to back up the BOM, zero archaeological evidence and zero DNA evidence, so all that to say Joe lied
I always ask who Christ was praying to in Matthew 26:39, was He praying to himself? Are they inferring that our Savior is schizophrenic? They also deny who Stephen saw in Acts 7:55-56, another is found in Genesis 1:26 when God says let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. I could go on all day.
@@jasongast1806 Correct, and sorry to say that the Bible says nothing about Joseph Smith, the BoM, an earthly New Covenant Temple akin to Mormon concepts, or a restored gospel foreign to the Bible. However, the theology of the Godhead is definitely in the Bible.
@@PrairieChristianOutreach All references are KJV General apostasy. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Restoration. Acts 3:21, Ephesians1:9-10 Isaiah 35. There are literally hundreds of other verses about a restoration in the last days and the establishment of a new covenant. I would call it one of the themes of the bible. Joseph Smith and Book of Mormon in bible. Isaiah the entire chapter 29 (verses 11 and 12 speak of the book of mormon and Joseph Smith.). Learn the history of Charles Anthon in regard to these two verses. The whole chapter actually ties into a lot of history that has already occurred. Joseph Smith and the 1st vision Jeremiah 30:21 Chapter 30 and 31 should be read entirely, as it deals with the latter-day restoration of Israel by the tribe of Ephraim. Temple is all over the bible, I don't think you honestly need references there. Godhead in the bible. John 17:20-23. It explains what "One" God means. Acts 7:55-56 When Stephen saw both The Father and the Son together, separate beings. Many many other examples as well if needed. Trinity is not biblical. It was born 325AD with the Nicene creed and it died Spring 1820 with the personal visitation of the Father and Son to earth.
Those who believe the 3-in-1 myth are never able to explain who Jesus was praying to, nor who He asked to take the "cup" from Him, "but not as I will, as Thou wilt "
Jesus Christ prayed to the Father because he is God the son aka son of God the second person in the Trinity. The Trinity is God that exists as three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the teachings of the Trinity, they are not the same person they are distinct from each other.
Can’t find 'nice' in there either🤷♂️ Good job you just debunked one of the oldest church theologies out there even notice it’s heavily implied in the Bible that there is a Trinity.
God didn't put that in there. A scribe named Erasmus did. It was added to the Bible. Google "johannine comma". You'll see that even conservative scholars agree that it wasn't in the original texts. And of course, that also casts serious doubt on the Bible as an infallible, God-breathed text. We agree it's inspired, but men are not perfect. God uses men to transmit his will. Imperfect men.
@@TheRealDonLayton As far as I have read, Erasmus isn't the one who put it in there. Erasumus left it out of his first two Greek-Latin versions because it wasn't in any of his Greek manuscripts, and only added it into his third version after being accused of trying to revive Arianism. So it must predate Erasmus.
All I can say is the God the Catholics teach about and the sacraments they teach about are both true and effective. I can say that Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament is indeed Jesus, body, blood, soul and Divinity, and that He is very alive indeed, and to this day listens to prayers and does indeed answer them in miraculous ways, and in so doing may also enlist the work of His saints in Heaven, who intercede in prayer for those on earth. I can say unequivocally, the saints in Heaven are alive, and the teachings of the Catholic Church are both true and real in every way. I personally am witness to the power of Christ through His Church, His Blessed Sacrament and His True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. I can attest to the reality of the communion of saints having seen them act in my own life. I have witnessed the Lord Jesus doing mighty wonderous deeds in the sun in the sky itself, and I have received the multiplication of Holy Oil at His direction through the communion of Saints. I can attest that the Indian maiden known as Kateri, Lily of the Mohawks is indeed alive and intercedes and has interceded on my behalf. I can attest that Jesus Christ is the Lord God, One in Being with the Father and the Spirit, and I can attest that Mary His mother is indeed, as is fitting, the Queen Mother. Repent of your sins, the hour is very late, and the Lord waits for your return. Do not delay, do not let the claims of others stop you. For He is alive, He has ONE church, and HE HAS NEVER LEFT US! Want proof? It exists, look to Father Chris Alar and the miracles he speaks of, look to Medjugorje and the millions who have seen the power of God there, look, seek, knock and you will find Him.
Why does Genesis 1 say they made man in "our" image? That obviously means plural, but in mormon theology, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were spirits, so clearly there could be no "our image" in mormonism. So, once again, mormonism doesn't coincide with the Bible.
How ironic the same person who says the trinity isn’t found in the New Testament but came later is also the same person who holds to the canon not being closed. The doctrine of the trinity is not only found in the New Testament it’s found in the Old Testament. He literally quotes Paul when Paul said Jesus was equal with God and this guy completely missed the point. Paul said Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Meaning Jesus is equal with God but he thought it not robbery therefore he humbled himself and gave up that position in order to come save humanity. This is the problem with cults…they use different standards by which they judge. This guy criticized early church fathers as being misinformed but then turns around and says a young boy in the 1800 who was confused already somehow got supernatural clarity…but this is what cults do. They make you turn your brain off and cause you to suppress the truth even though you know it makes no sense..you have to hold on to lies because without lies cults die.
We claim the to worship the Almighty God according to the dictates of our conscience and allow all men the same principle, let them worship how, where or what they may. THAT'S FREEDOM OF RELIGION. WE ARE NOT A CULT!!!!!! JUST BELIEVE IN A GODHEAD NOT TRINITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@jeanleatham2080 you have the freedom to do whatever you want..it doesn’t make it right or true that’s all I’m saying. I can call myself a lizard..I have that freedom…doesn’t mean it’s true. I know it’s hard for you to image you’ve been lied to and fooled but you have been. You’ve been condition to think the way you do and say things like the Trinity is evil and all that when Trinity is literally a word. It’s literally a word that describes God. Just like Omnipresent or omniscient describes God and you’d agree with those..yet those words aren’t in the Bible. Trinity is literally a word used to describe God. It is manmade because all words are manmade.
When you understand that Jesus is a God and that being "one" doesn't mean the being the same person or being or essence, you can see through the Trinity. We respect your belief but the Trinity is not a true doctrine.
I'm not here to argue with you, but the word trinity is not found in the King James version of the Holy Bible. It may have been added in a later version and that I would not know.
The Trinity is that God is one being that exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that they are the same person.
Jeffrey Holland at 1:52 in the video describes the Trinity correctly Trinitarians believe that God is three separate distinct persons from one nature substance that he shares is different in the LDS Church.
Is this a response to the clip posted today by Thoughtful Faith with Trent Horn? I have often thought, in accordance with Thoughtful Faith’s video, that if the definition of “Christian” means believing in the corrupt trinitarian definition of Jesus then I don’t want anything to do with it. When they said we believe in a “different Jesus” I couldn’t agree with them more. This is why I don’t care much for interfaith efforts and I have no desire to “fit in” with mainline Christians. I’m weird and I like it!
I've heard the suggestion that the Church should start considering itself the fourth Abrahamic religion. Given our distinct differences from Christianity and our similarities with Judaism and Islam, I'm all for it.
@@weirdsweetcoolplants to be clear, I believe Latter-day Saints are Christians. True Christians. Who believe in the true Christ. What I am saying is that if you define “Christian” as being “someone who adheres to the creedal definition of Christ” then by that definition, I am not a “Christian”, or more appropriately names, I am not a “Creedal Christian”. I am a saint (but that word’s definition has some complexity to it too)
I am 21 years now as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And by attending siminaries and institute ( which studies Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, words of the living prophets) Attending Sacraments, and reading any other good books temporal or spiritual, following all of His commandments despite of the tests and trials but the knowledge of truth and the love of the Father and His Son lights my way to go back to Their presence. We can help each other only we need to be humble before God. Take care!
@@MaryBarluado All that to show your brainwashed , Give up false gospels ,fake prophets , quit believing a lie and turn to the Bible , the rest is hogwash ,easily to prove if you would just look , Eternity is a long time to be wrong , when there is Zero DNA evidence, zero archaeological evidence something is wrong
The Father, The Son. The Wind, The Breath, too The Bride. The Father, Holy Ghost, Wind. The Son, Holy Spirit, Breath. The Bride, third part of the Trinity. Jesus inside you, The Hope, a Vessel overflowing, breath. The Hope Of Glory. Family, John 14: 16-26. AMEN Not a Traditions of men(religions), follower. "The traditions of men make void the commandments of GOD". > U look that one up yourselves.
Listen to the still small voice. Some may think this isn’t true at their first thought but if you clear you heart, mind, and soul. You will feel something. Maybe the back of your head, maybe your heart, maybe your chest, and maybe your shoulders. But somewhere a still small voice will tell you everything in this video is true.
@@Ewokforlife It could be gas pain , don’t you think the Johovah witness have a feeling , or the Muslims , God gave all of us a brain , if you research the BOM you will find zero historical evidence, zero DNA EVIDENCE and zero archeological evidence, now the Bible is the opposite, there find evidence all the time.
Jesus Himself in the first vision declared the creeds to be an abomination. They are divisive, distant, and unclear. Thanks be to God for the restored gospel!
@@Silarias Jesus said “ I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail , now who are you siding with a 14 year old Conman , who grew up to be a known pedifile and lier or Jesus , Why would you put your faith in man ? Man will let you down , Jesus won’t , Have you ever questioned Joe credibility, No , That’s obvious, that’s why your still a Mormon ! The whole story rises or falls on his words , please look , Eternity is a long time to be wrong !
Latter Day Saints know the Bible compilation better than the members of the other churches. This is proof that LDS scripture is from above. Otherwise how would you explain that mans knowledge suddenly increased?
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii once again ,Zero Historical evidence for the BOM, zero archaeological evidence for the BOM , zero DNA ,so what does that mean ? Nothing but a fairy tale.
@@BobEvans-l9x i know that but what does Colosians 1:13-20 say? He is God in the flesh all things were made through him for him. Thats why we Christians believe in a Triune God, Holy spirit is Gods spirit
Not at all. This content directly relates to the Bible itself, and how the New Testament has no clear doctrine of a Trinity. You can remove the Book of Mormon entirely from this conversation, and it still relates to the falsehood of the Trinity concept.
@@GreatRemembrance "I and my Father are one" John 10:30. I would say that is abundantly clear that Jesus the Son and God the Father are the same being. If you need another example look at John 1:1-14. The word "Trinity" may not be in the Bible, but the concept is.
The new testament clearly shows The Holy Ghost is God.. as Peter tells us anias and sapphira that lying to The Holy Ghost is in fact lying to God--> acts 5:3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
@@CalledtoShare if you're not Trinitarian you're out of line with biblical Christianity, what the Appstles taught, and what the Church taught and defended up until the 1800s when Mormonism was founded 🤷♂️
@@CalledtoShare Christians have no problem with that passage. We know they're two distinct hypoatases (persons) who share one ousias (essence). It sounds like you think Christian trinitarianism is modalism
There is a very strong argument that Joseph Smith in the early days of the church believed in the trinity that is why one of the different versions of the 1st vision only mentions one person, and the Book of Mormon leans heavily on the idea of the trinity. As time went on Joseph Smiths view point changed as well as other doctrine changes.
It's an extremely weak argument. The claim is that Joseph Smith didn't publicly teach the current LDS view of the Godhead until his later years, specifically 1843 and beyond. It can be shown to be incorrect. Joseph attested in Nauvoo that "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods." Even though he didn't have the account of the First Vision written until the Nauvoo period, there are several earlier accounts from members and non-members who support his claim. For example, a Presbyterian minister named Truman Coe, very well acquainted with the LDS Saints in Kirtland, wrote the following: “They contend that the God worshipped by the Presbyterians and all other sectarians is no better than a wooden god. They believe that the true God is a material being, composed of body and parts; and that when the Creator formed Adam in his own image, he made him about the size and shape of God himself” (Backman, “Truman Coe’s 1836 Description of Mormonism,” Ohio Observer, 347-354). This claim comes from Joseph Smith, in the Fifth Lecture on Faith, where they believe he taught something close to the doctrine of the trinity. Here's the quote: "There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made, whether visible or invisible, whether in heaven, on earth, in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man" The quote is taken out of context. If you continue a few lines down the lecture, you'll find that Joseph teaches that both the Father and the Son were "personages" of "tabernacle", meaning that they had form, and that man was formed after his likeness and in his image. Further, the form of the Father was described as the same as the image of the son. I propose that you give serious consideration to the non biblical, and nonsensical doctrine of the trinity, as outlined in the Nicaean Council of 325 AD.
@@donlayton8781 Are you familiar with the changes made to the 1837 Book of Mormon? The 1830 version has the following verses in 1 Nephi: 1 Nephi 11:18 - "Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh." 1 Nephi 11:21 - "And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?" 1 Nephi 11:32 - "And it came to pass the angel spake unto me again, saying, look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record." 1 Nephi 13:40 - "And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which is of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain the precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world; and that all men must come unto Him, or they cannot be saved;"
If the Trinity is not real, and only God is eternal (because of the others were eternal they would be God) then how can God be loving AT ALL? If He doesn't have love to himself, and the Spirit and The Son, how can God be loving? The trinity is true because God is loving. Read the true scripture of the Bible and find the true God. Praying for you, Love you all.
Mormonism is the restoration of the principles and doctrines that God taught to Adam from the beginning and that Christ restored to the earth during his ministry.
@davidjanbaz7728 the major difference in LDS theology and yours is that you believe the Billions of people that never understood the Trinity as you do are going to Hell. For us, anyone that didn't have the opportunity to make covenants in the Temple will be afforded that right in the after life. I'm relieved that the God I believe in wouldn't cast billions of people into Hell simply because they never had to the opportunity to be as enlightened as you are on the subject.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Question....if Mormons end up in heaven would you rather be in heaven with them or go to hell because you don't like them? Everyone knows the trinity is bad theology.
One of the earliest quotes outside the Bible that explicitly refers to Jesus as God comes from Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of the apostles, an early Church Father who lived in the late 1st and early 2nd centuries. In his letters written around 110 AD, he frequently refers to Jesus as God. In his letter to the Ephesians, Ignatius writes: “There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.” - Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians, Chapter 7.
@@Rudyard_Stripling you show yourself ignorant when you ask a question and assume there is no answer. You believing in a cult is starting to make sense..nonetheless maybe this will help. Just to be clear this is the same historical method we use for other ancient historical figures…so if you’re asking for a photograph then no I don’t have that but if you’re asking for me to provide the same ancient historical evidence we use for people like Alexander the Great or Plato, Socrates, Aristotle then here you go. there are multiple sources but most of my preferred sources come from the early church fathers disciples/students. Ignatius and Polycarp were both viewed as direct disciples of the Apostle John. One source comes from Irenaeus of Lyons (Polycarp’s student) he wrote this down in “Against Heresies” “But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried on earth a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffered martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true.” This is one of my favorite sources because this is his student writing about his teacher and that his teacher was in fact in connection with the apostles. We know his teacher lived during the lifetime of the apostles and was carried to Rome as a martyr. It makes sense there are others who spoke to the apostles and wrote about them because they were real people. This can be validated unlike Joseph Smiths claims…he lied about what knowledge he knew..and he is also known for killing a man…also there’s the underage girl he married…but you can believe that kid who said he was confused about the church and conveniently got a revelation..one in which wasn’t given before but only by him. This is the definition of a cult..but I guess if there are people in Japan who believed in a toilet god..I guess it’s not hard to see Americans falling for a little kid telling them he knows something all the other churches in the world don’t know
Ignatius` letter to the Smyrnaeans: Flee from schism as the source of mischief. You should all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ did the Father. Follow, too, the presbytery as you would the apostles; and respect the deacons as you would God’s law. Nobody must do anything that has to do with the Church without the bishop’s approval. You should regard that Eucharist as valid which is celebrated either by the bishop or by someone he authorizes. Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Without the bishop’s supervision, no baptisms or love feasts are permitted. On the other hand, whatever he approves pleases God as well. In that way everything you do will be on the safe side and valid.
If you believe in the Trinity could you please explain Acts 7-55-56 and also explain when the Savior was on the cross He somehow " forsook" Himself? Ive never heard an intelligent answer to either question...Thanks..
There are two different issues in your question. The idea of Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and God being referred to as separate from Jesus. You could use any number of verses to pose this question. The "why have you forsaken Me," verse. "I don't do anything that I don't see the Father doing" verse. The "not my will but your will be done" verse, etc. These are reasonable questions but the answer comes down to two truths about the incarnation. First is the verse in Philippians 2:6-8 _who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross._ This verse reveals the duel nature of Christ. His godly nature and His humanity. That leads to the second truth and that is the idea of idolatry. Idolatry is worshiping the creature and not the creator. The human person of Christ is not divine. It is a creation that Christ humbled Himself to take on. The scripture is therefore, very careful to not direct worship to the human person of Christ but only His eternal nature. As for the "sitting at God's right hand..." This is an idiom. Scripture doesn't teach us that God has a body. It says He is spirit. There is imagery of a throne, but creation is His throne. "Sitting as God's right hand" is an idiom for sharing the power. Whenever, Christ is spoken of as an incarnation then there is a distinction made between Him and God and that is to avoid idolatry. Now this might sound like rationalization to you but its not. Its a forced conclusion because if we like it or not, scripture presents Christ as God incarnate.
Ok. Sorry. But any answer that begins with the question having issues is never a good start and I know immediately a mush pot answer is coming. To say Christ was not divine in the flesh is absolutely false. He was perfect. He had no blemish physically until the appointed time and no blemish of spirit... Sinless. He was and is of a divine nature. Secondly The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints says that when the Lord says to become one we believe it to be symbolic of God and Jesus being one on Nature and purpose not physically and yet we are written off by people who say that is to be taken literal. But then the same people say what Stephen saw in Acts was not really 2 separate beings and the scripture is not to be taken literally. And your answer to this question is different than almost every preacher, pastor or other "Christians" I have asked. You all have a different answer for the same question using the same bible. If there was a true answer (that is an answer with all truth) you would have the same answer for the question. But y'all do not You all differ in your answers. You claim to believe in the same creed made up by men to explain God but have varying and different answers to how to answer the 2 questions I have answered. According to the creed that describes the Trinity which is wholly impossible to understand God is without parts or passions and without form yet there are plenty of scriptures that say the exact opposite. And finally if God doesn't have a body...why do we? If He truly made us in His image why are not floating masses of spirit and blobness? If I showed you a picture of a bike and asked you to bring me something made in the image of the bike would you bring me a pumpkin? Or a phone...or anything else. No. Yoh would bring me something that I could look at and say yes that looks like or similar to a bike. God the Father SENT his Son even Jesus Christ. Why would God say such simple pure doctrine to us if what He really meant was I changed into human form and became Jesus which I will refer to as my Son but isn't really my Son its just me in human form so I am God but in human form I am the Son of Myself...that makes as much sense as the creeds...and the Trinity which makes no sense...
Praying that you guys see the truth from the Bible, which was completed in 1500 yrs ago revelation being the last , yes God the Father , son and holy spirit.
Speaking as a traditional Christian, I think your views on the doctrine of the Trinity lacks balance. Please study the historical background of how the doctrine came about. The traditional verbiage of the Nicene creed was used as a way to confess that Jesus was truly God, not a lesser creature that Arius was teaching which conflicts with the clear teaching of scripture (e.g., John 1 and Colossians 1). The terms used to describe the oneness and threeness of the Godhead in the Nicene creed are not sacrosanct, but were adopted since Arius could not accept the term for the oneness of God, so that is what was used in the wording. 🙂
The trinity was invented in the year 325 CE so it’s not what early Christians believed, therefore the trinity is false doctrine. Not to mention it’s confusing and God isn’t the God of confusion.
1 John 4 Test the Spirits Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
First, don't call them a denomination because that equalizes them with mainstream Christianity which they are not a part of. Second, to answer your question, most of the sects of Christianity(some would say cults) deny the trinity. Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Oneness Pentacostals, 7th Day Adventists, Hebrew Israelites and probably more.
Odd, as a traditional Christian I’m always told by LDS that I should go to faithful members to explain what the church teaches about their beliefs instead of scary “anti-Mormons”, but I’m supposed to listen to LDS when they try to talk about traditional Christianity? 😂
@@CalledtoShare He tries to cite Harper’s Bible Dictionary in support of his claim that the doctrine of the Trinity has no basis in the New Testament, but looking at the context of citation he uses lessens the impact he hopes to provide. For more context here is the sentence he quoted along with the one immediately following it: “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT. Nevertheless, the discussion above and especially the presence of trinitarian formulas in 2 Cor. 13:14 (which is strikingly early) and Matt. 28:19 indicate that the origin of this mode of thought may be found very early in Christian history.” Notice the “nevertheless” in the next sentence? The formal doctrine of course isn’t in the NT, but the conceptual basis certainly is. The formal definition in the Nicene creed was used to reject the teaching of Arius who taught Jesus was a creature rather than the Creator as the NT clearly teaches (e.g., John 1 and Colossians 1). From what I’ve read in the Book of Mormon and the Lectures on Faith in early LDS works there seemed to be much closer affinity to historic Christian orthodoxy than developed in later LDS ideas on the nature of the Godhead.
John 1. The word was God, and the word became flesh. Title page Book of Mormon. Jesus Christ is the very eternal father. Mosiah 1 God Himself will come here to save us. Luke 10 only those who God tells will know who He is.
One in that they don't require different things from us. They have the same commandments and path to heaven. That is what the oneness implies. But three separate beings, three Gods, one Godhead.
Members of the LDS Church *do* believe in one God. We also believe in Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. What about that is hard for Christians to understand?
We don’t want to be the same. We don’t want to be classified “non Christian” based on false and unbiblical, manmade creeds or trinitarian constructs. We believe the Bible. Our faith reconciles otherwise contradictory statements in the Bible. I am a non credal Christian. I am a follower of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible.
@@latter-daysaintchristian4134 You don't want to be the same but you want the same label? I actually like the phrase "non credal Christian". I think that might be a good compromise. I've heard active LDS say they are not Christian before.
I don’t really care if people think I’m Christian or not. What I do want people understanding is that I believe in Jesus Christ and that he is my savior.
@@CalledtoShare That's a very fair offer. "Belief" in Christ isn't what makes you a Christian. James 2:19 implies that the devil "believes" in Christ. The LDS teaching is to worship a God named Elohim and NOT to worship the God called Christ. This is the key difference. Traditional Christians reject the worship of all other gods except Christ. Worship is different than belief.
As an LDS man, my understanding of the historical view of the trinity is spelled out by the Nicaean Creed. Exactly how is my understanding a straw man? The creed states: We believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made of one essence with the Father by whom all things were made who for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; whose Kingdom shall have no end And in the Holy Spirit
@@caseykaelin9430 Don’t modern day Christians define God as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as ONE God? I thought that was textbook trinitarian definition.
@@caseykaelin9430 Who told you they are “three people but one substance”? They are ONE God. Not one in purpose. Not one substance. One God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE God. Is that “Trinity”? I don’t know. I really don’t care. It’s truth and that’s all that really matters, right?
@@markandpamtaylor8341 Probably before we get involved in a big discussion we had better be clear on how you have one God but three being. Keep in mind when Jesus prays to the Father he says "not my will be done but thy will be done", These beings have two separate wills, they are not the same person.
The identity and reality of God the Father, Elohim, and His most Beloved Son, Jesus Christ,(Jehovah), was made known to Adam and Eve, and has been known by every righteous prophet, apostle, or disciple of Christ since.
@@blusheep2I testify that those who humble themselves meek and submissive will be numbered among the righteous and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God here on Earth and was restored by the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. And the book of Mormon is Another testament of Jesus Christ happens for the first people in America from the descendants of Joseph Manasseh which is Lehi and his family. I maybe far from this country and I've been working everywhere away from my country but in my walked there's no other religion that can help us in going back to our Father in Heaven only in and by His true gospel here on Earth. The blood of the Prophet Joseph sealed that book through his blood in His witness that His true church is here on Earth now, many are called but few are chosen and why they are not chosen because their heart sets too much of this world that they forgot what happens before they are in their mother's womb. Those who wanted to know the truth. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the living truth. If you don't believe there's still chance after this life but incomplete and regret while you can do in this life. Take care!
Its actually Acts 7:55-56...but YES THIS!!!...I've never heard a intelligent answer to this scripture...It is an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ describing seeing God...separate from His Son even our Lord and Savior ..."Christians" don't have an answer for this Scripture...
The actual word "God" did not come into usage in Christianity until Gothic Bibles were Translated in the Forth Century. The word "Trinity" actually predates the word "God" in its usage in Christian History. The Apostles of Christ did not even have a word for :Eternal" or "Eternity" when using Greek to write the original New Testament or Hebrew and or Greek Old Testament. Instead the term "Eternal" came after the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible was translated. Previously the Greek only has words like "Eon" that stand for ages of time was used not "Eternity". Yet the LDS extra-Biblical Scriptures that claim to predate 400 A.D. Latin era use the word "Eternal". Even the D&C uses this Latin, apostate word "Eternal" and "Eternity". It is also true that the term "Eternal Progression" that is key to the LDS worldview is found nowhere in the Bible or any LDS Standard Work. On top of all of this nowhere in the LDS Standard Works is there an explicit statement or teachings that says the Godhead is composed of three separate gods or three beings. Instead it is interpreted by reading into the LDS extra-biblical texts. At best a reader can only claim that the three beings, three gods of the godhead is implied. Some Mormon offshoot groups are Trinitarian due to this situation. The Traditional Christians have a much stronger case for the Trinity than Mormons do for there godhead of three gods doctrine.
@@HickPreacher-wj8lm Actually, we have the stronger case. Trinitarians dont. God the Father and Jesus are two separate beings. The bible proves us right and disproves the trinity entirely.
Unfortunately if you change how God is defined then you worship a different god. The LDS god is not the same God of Israel. It is nice to use all the same names and language but if God is different in nature and origin then it is a different god. It is ok for LDS to have it's own god however the question of if you are saved is a different question. If you want to believe in Christianity then eliminate all the other nonsense and focus on having a relationship with the Lord. If you want to be LDS then focus on everything the church of LDS demands of you. Unfortunately the two paths are contradictory in many ways and in some it it aligns. Look to the true meaning of Matthew 7:21-23. I would also encourage you to get a KJV that's not altered by the LDS church. Many changes have been made to fit Joseph Smith's religious beliefs that moves us away from Christianity.
If my only source of information were the Bible, I would be able to understand where you are coming from. However, God has called living prophets who can reveal to us line upon line, precept on precept.
@@CalledtoShare like I said LDS, Muslims, Jews and Christians have their own religion. It is ok to have your own beliefs but be honest about it. LDS would be much more justified if they just declared themselves it's own belief system. I honestly think they refused to do that bc it's easier to convert the informed Christians by using common language. I do pray for everyone in LDS to have the revelation about the truth of their own beliefs
We are our own belief system. That is was necessitated the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ because the world was in a state of confusion in regards to truth.
Alot of churches teach there three with some diffrences but we do believe in the trinity we just dont call it that at church we reffer to it as the godhead
Uuh it is found here 1 John 5:7 (KJV) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Also the book of mormon is a false gospel as CLEARLY in the bible it already mentions if any man or an angel preached any other gospel let him be accursed! Galatians 1:8 (KJV) 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Yes. I am an ex Mormon. I was led out of the church by God. In Mormonism we are taught to trust our feeling in our heart, but God spoke to me, and I found that his voice was way more reliable than any mormon teaching or prophet. Since I have come out I have been able to see the lies and the misinformation that surrounds the LDS church. Now I truly hope that God leads others out of the false religion as he led me out. The origin story is that Joseph Smith saw two personages. One claiming to be God and saying the other is his son Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, nobody can see God and live.
@@kittiemarie1235 God doesn’t contradict Himself. You lie. All teachings of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is of God. God led me to the church. I think you’ve been deceived.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 and I believe you’ve been deceived. You see, in the LDS church you are bound by the laws, ordinances, and covenants that the church brought back. The very same ones that Jesus died to fulfill on the cross. The Bible makes it clear that we are no longer bound by the law since Jesus paid the wages of those sins with his sacrifice upon the cross. This makes his gift free for all, but it means no amount of “works,” we could do would make us worthy to enter the kingdom of God. We get there only through Christ So long as we accept in our hearts and rely on Jesus Christ for the renewal of our hearts and the forgiveness of our sins. Since we are saved by grace and grace alone through Jesus, going to a temple (in which Jesus said that God does not reside in,) to uphold these very same laws, ordinances, and covenants, is equivalent to rejecting the gift that Jesus died for and freely gave to everyone. I do not deny that you truly believe in the church. But that is the extent of your belief. You believe in the church more than in Jesus Christ and his grace. As a believer in Christ I do not need any church or any religion. Instead I need Jesus and I rely on him for everything.
Worshiping the Lord as a human being is a good thing, however, believing in three separate beings isn't. After the resurrection, the three personas or appearances (not people) were united in one as the Divine Human. To say there are three gods, however, denies the Divine Human of the Lord and places his divinity elsewhere. This, in effect, converts the LDS doctrine into faith alone, which then is no better than the Protestant doctrine.
@@rdancranston The term "right hand of God" symbolizes almighty power, specifically the power of the Lord in respect of Divine Truth. When the Bible mentions the "right hand of God," it refers to the Lord's ability to operate with omnipotence through the Human form He took upon Himself in the world. This power allows Him to conquer the hells, bring order to the heavens, redeem humanity, and continue to do so eternally. The concept of the "right hand of God" is not about physical placement but signifies the Lord's omnipotence. This divine power is evident in various passages from the Psalms and Isaiah, where it is described as breaking enemies, supporting, and upholding. The right hand represents power, the arm strength, and the light of the face Divine Truth from Divine Good. And so, rather than being literal, it’s symbolic. The Apostles often spoke using Biblical symbolism and poetry that they were very familiar with.
Well while I agree with your right hand concept of power Stephen CLEARLY states that he sees the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. This is two separate beings he is seeing. Also is says he was " full of the Holy Ghost. So he was full of the Holy Ghost and saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God. 3 distinct personages. The creed states you cannot divide the substance...yet this scripture does exactly that. The creed is a mass confusion of a poor attempt by man to describe their own ideas of a "Trinity"... also Jesus asks God why He has forsaken him...how can He forsake himself from himself if you cannot divide the substance?...it makes no sense and I'm sorry but your answer while mingled with some truth also fails miserably...
@@rdancranston To understand it takes an understanding of God’s love as a symbol of the Father within as his eternal soul, and if you miss that you won’t be able to see or hear the Lord’s words according to the inner sense of them. I’m sorry that I can’t help. The Lord will have to open it up to you as you’re ready.
2 Nephi 2:25 is another great example of false doctrine. Also the LDS "Restoration" is another example of false doctrine. The LDS church can point fingers all they want and claim things false, but their doctrine is no better.
@latter-daydiscussions4289 that scripture is stating that it was a good thing to disobey God, or in other words, sin is a good thing. It, at best, makes God into a liar.
2 Nephi 2:25 teaches that the Fall of Adam and Eve was necessary for humanity to exist and experience joy, but it does not promote sin or disobedience as good things. Instead, it highlights that through the Fall, we can make choices and ultimately find joy by following God's commandments and relying on Christ's Atonement. Sin is not seen as good, but the opportunity to choose and grow is part of God's plan for our happiness.
@northerngeek4298 You just contradicted yourself and proved my point right. If sin is necessary for God's plan, and/or for our happiness, then yes, the scripture is promoting sin. Another way to show this is to ask the questions "was it possible for Adam and Eve to keep both commandments according to the BOM?" and "what would have happened if Adam and Eve were able to keep both commandments?" If the BOM was not promoting sin, the better outcome for all of mankind would have come from Adam and Eve keeping the commandments.
Adam and Eve’s choice was part of God's plan, but it doesn’t mean that sin is good or necessary for happiness. The Fall was a transgression (not the same as sin) that allowed humanity to enter mortality, gain knowledge, and have the opportunity for redemption through Jesus Christ. The Bible supports this idea in Romans 5:12-19, where Paul explains that through Adam's transgression, sin and death entered the world, but through Christ, we are redeemed and can receive eternal life. Regarding your question, Adam and Eve couldn’t keep both commandments because multiplying and replenishing the earth required them to leave their state of innocence. If they hadn't partaken of the fruit, humanity wouldn't have progressed, and God's plan for us to experience life, make choices, and seek eternal joy through Christ would not have been fulfilled (see 1 Corinthians 15:22). The scripture in 2 Nephi 2:25 isn't promoting sin but rather teaching that God’s plan for happiness comes through Christ’s Atonement, not through sin itself.
Why is it I am the ONLY one who brings up CHRST BAPTISM ???
All “HEARD a VOICE” from Heaven !! GOD said “THIS is MY SON in whom I am WELL PLEASED”
JESUS was not a Ventriloquist!!!!!!!!!-IT WAS HIS HEAVENLY FATHER!!!!!
❤️❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼
So easy, my young ids understand it.
lol amen
And also the witness of Stephen who saw God the Father with Jesus Christ standing on His right side just before he was stoned to death. Two individuals. A child could understand this concept while reading the Bible but this shows the power of influence of "false traditions". Teach it long enough, it must be true. We are seeing this today in politics. The Book of Mormon warns us so many times of 'false traditions'.
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the (Word, & the Word) was with [God], & the {Word was God}.”
John 1:14
14 & the (Word was made flesh), & {dwelt among us}, & we beheld [His Glory, the Glory] as of (the only begotten) of [the Father], full of (Grace) & {Truth}.
John 3:16
16 {[For God] so loved the world}, that [He gave His] only (Begotten Son), that {whosoever believeth in (Him)} Should not perish, but have,, {Everlasting Life}.
John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, "I am" the [Way] the {Truth}, & the (Life): no man cometh unto the [Father], but by (Me).
1 John 5:6-8
6 This is (He that came by [water] & (blood), even,, Jesus Christ); not by [water] only, but by [water] & (blood). & it is the, {Spirit that beareth witness because,, the Spirit is Truth}.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the [Father], the (Word), & the {Holy Ghost}: & these three are "ONE".
8 & there are three that bear witness in earth, the {Spirit}, & the [water], & the (blood): & these three agree in "ONE".
John 14:17
17 Even {the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, & shall be in you}.
John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, & {now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the [Father] in {Spirit & in Truth}: for the [Father] seeketh such to worship Him}.
24 {{God is a Spirit}: & they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit & in Truth}.
Deuteronomy 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[God] = The [Way]
{Holy Ghost} =The {Truth}
(Christ) & The (Life)
Shalom & JAH Bless…
@@terryherrera5252 And also, did Christ want his disciples to become one being as he and the father are one?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) was officially organized on April 6, 1830 in Fayette, New York. However, the church's origins can be traced back to a series of events that began in 1820, including the First Vision, when Joseph Smith was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ. In 1829, Smith was also visited by a resurrected John the Baptist, who gave him the Aaronic Priesthood. Smith then published The Book of Mormon in 1830, which is considered to be the official founding of the religion.
The LDS church is characterized by its belief in continuing revelation, family life, and missionary work. It also teaches that Jesus is the church's leader, and that the church itself is a reestablishment of the primitive church that existed under Jesus and his Apostles.
reformation, restorartion, reestablishment, What is it?
@@aadschram5877none of your three options are correct.
Restoration
@@CalledtoShareno need: just a counterfeit based on your counterfeit Great Apostasy.
@@davidjanbaz7728 I don’t think it’s their ‘counterfeit’ apostasy; it happened 1.5 to 2 millennia ago.
And it was definitely a real apostasy. They retained some truth, and lost much…aka an ‘apostasy.’
Acts 7:55-56
Stephen being stoned to death saw the heavens opened and Jesus on the right hand of God.
Exactly!
That's right!
🙌
You take that to be literal? So, he was actually on God's right hand?! Mormonism is so wierd!
@@thebenplatt I’m really just trying to learn. My faith in Mormonism isn’t big and I’d lie to explore other faiths.
This scripture to me seems pretty clear that they are separate. But not to you, seems like you’re interpreting it differently. I’m interested on how you think about this. Trying to learn more and explore a new church.
When you actually do a careful read of the Bible it will be obvious the word Trinity isn't explicitly found in it. With closer examination you will discover that the explanation of the trinity isn't explicitly used in the Bible, or more accurately the definition of it. The reason for it was that Trinity wasn't first introduced until about 150 AD. After the two Nicene Creeds did it grow into a more mainstream doctrine. If anything, this should be evidence of the need of prophets and apostles for continued revelation.
Baptisim for the dead is nowhere found In The Book of Mormon. guess its just a fabrication...
@@johnrowley310it is found in the Bible though.. which we believe. Why don't you baptize fir the dead? Where are your temples, prophets and apostles?
@@johnrowley310 Your comment shows exactly why both the Bible (stick [scroll] of Judah) AND The Book of Mormon (stick [scroll] of Ephriam) must, as Ezekiel saw in vision, "become one in thine hand" Both collections of scripture are critical in learning truth. Check out the entire 37th Chapter of Ezekiel, particularly from verse 15 to the end. Note the timeline of events surrounding these two records being brought together.
@@johnrowley310it is found in 1 Corinthians 15:29, why do you deny it?
Nicene Creed would be like Biden or Trump getting people together to make doctrine for the church. They would have zero priesthood authority to do so, just like Constantine had zero priesthood authority to do so.
Genesis 1:26 “Then God said “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”” emphasis on “US” and “OUR”
Exactly!
And I also believe this to include Heavenly Mother since females had to be created dif than male which is the gender of God as Jesus taught that when he said when you have seen me you have seen the father.
@@CalledtoShare this is proving the trinity
@@mcfloridaman2192that is proving the trinity false.
@@gingermcgovern5682 You can't have a father without there also being a mother. Thank you for your comment.
For anyone thinking the “LDS view” is not correct on this topic, you need to think again. The word Godhead was used in ancient times not trinity because the trinity was invented in the year 325 CE. Latter-day Saints have the beliefs of the earliest Christians before the creation of the Nicene creed. I testify the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church restored upon the earth. I testify that we do have a living prophet today who guides us and teaches us about everything. I testify Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and of the Restoration. I testify the Book of Mormon is true. I testify Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. I testify that Elder Holland is right about the Godhead. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
I testify the Mormon church is false. I testify that Smith was a convicted con man that lied to Emma, the church and the world. I testify anyone who believes in the Mormon doctrine will die in their sins and will never see christ. May God have mercy on your lost soul...
Matthew 7
I grieve sincerely for you because you’re being led to hell by a perverted gospel.
The term "God" was not even invented until Gothic translations of the Bible were written in the forth century. The term "Eternal" and "Eternity" were not applied to God's nature the Bible until the Latin translations of the Bible in the fifth century replaced "Eon" for ages of time with the Latin words. God being called "Eternal" or "Everlasting" is not from the language or words of the original New Testament authors-- but came from the Latin Fathers during the era that Mormons claim was in apostasy. Nevertheless, the LDS Standard works and latter-day revelations is full of descriptions of God being Eternal, which is a Latin/Roman Church term. The Sacrament Prayer historically of D&C 20 and Moroni appear to be Trinitarian using Catholic invented terms to describe the Trinity from the Medieval ages. The LDS religion's claim to be a restoration of original ancient CHristianity is completely unfounded.
you can testify to whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true.
Amen! I love the doctrine of our Church! Rings so true and beautiful!!! Thank you, Pres Holland.
What a beautiful message from are loving apostle. We love you Elder Holland❤
Thanks for watching!
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I've NEVER believed in the trinity. Anyone who's simply read (and UNDERSTOOD) the Bible will agree!👍🏻
Thank you brother Holland
🙏🏼💜🕊
And that's what Satan does... he gets you to deny the godhead of Jesus Christ. This is your pathway to Hell.
What this Apostle of the Lord said is true.
Amen
Apostle?
@@aadschram5877 NO , NOT ever or will be.
Yes, living apostles > www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/quorum-of-the-twelve-apostles?lang=eng
Christ built the foundation of his church upon the foundation of apostles and prophets
@@CalledtoShareLOL 😂
As one who studies the ancient Hebrew Bible, the first line of Genesis does not say "God created the Heavens and the Earth," it says "The Gods created the Heavens and the Earth." You know where else we find that? The Book of Abraham, another translation given through Joseph Smith. Take what you will from this, but I believe Joseph Smith to be a true prophet and God to be three distinct individuals, one in purpose, but not body.
The 'Gods' counseled together concerning the creation showing that there were/are two, the Father and the Son.
The original Hebrew of Genesis started as “The Head of the Godhead said to the Gods”
That's because Elohim means Gods. Which for me also includes our Heavenly Mother.
The book of Abraham , yea Joe lied and made that up…Egyptologist today have debunked that easily 😂
is there a link for this you can add? I'd really like to see it
Funny how Jesus never rejected being worshipped.
Love the Authority Elder Holland speaks with
He's great.
He has no authority
@@thebenplatt He does. You have no authority.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 lol, so silly. have a nice night
@@adamgonzalez8668 He is a Demon leading people astray !
Mathew 3,16-17 and the spirit of God came and dwell upon Jesus. Then the Voice of God from Heaven spoke. This is my beloved son in whom im well pleased. 👉 3 separate beings. Ome in Heaven, one on earth and one ascending upon Jesus. 3 location and 3 beings and One Lord Almighty.
@@maxlaguna9712 Three persons, one divine essence. It doesn't disprove the Trinity. It disproves modalism.
@@samgrant6638 Nope.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 Brilliant rebuttal 👏
The Trinity-busting scripture is John 17:11. "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE."
Yep.
@@CalledtoShareJohn 17: 1-2 ; 20- 23 debunks your interpretation of John 17: 3 and 11.
@@davidjanbaz7728No they don't. They support the interpretation.
There is both evidence for and against the interpretation of the trinity for the beliefs and interpretations of the authors who wrote these passages all had differences in belief and interpretation as well as us whom the book was addressed to. Given these multiple layers of interpretation, it may be difficult to find the underlying truth in which, instead of relying on our own selves to interpret the text correctly without error, we must first consult our interpretations and coming to a conclusion consider asking the Lord in prayer if said conclusion is right, and the Holy Spirit will confirm it to us.
@jeranuspeedrunsn The apostles were much more unified than you make them out to be. Trinitarian interpretation relies on an acknowledgment and embracement of neoplatonic philosophy, philosophy that had yet to be conceived, and even if it were conceived the Jews, which every apostle at the time was, would have rejected it as pagan and idolatrous.
I sure love this channel. Thank you for all that you do to share the gospel and help us to do the same.
Glad you enjoy it! Thank you so much.
We never say those who believe in the trinity are not Christian because that would not be Christian.
@@RegardingThePlan All there professors are corrupt ,and all there creeds an abomination, You guys are polytheists, Thats pagan
Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost make the Godhead.
Amen
@@CalledtoShareAnd R God Most High: NOT 2 gods of bodies composed of fine matter with 1 who got short changed .
Oh, and all the Heavenly mother Eternally pregnant demigods.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Bro, who hurt you?
@@davidjanbaz7728 Brilliant. No sex for the Mormon Holy Ghost. He is just a piker.
@@joebobson6163 Got smacked by logic and truth. It can really hurt some times.
The official title of The Book of Mormon is “The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ.” Its purpose is to help us come to know Jesus. Jesus is mentioned 3,925 times throughout the book, which equates to a mention every 1.7 verses, on average.
yes!
the book of Mormon was written thousands of years after Jesus Christ lived. Read the bible and you will find the real God.
@@pandaxx2932 You are mistaken, the Book of Mormon with its books like the bible was written from 600 bc to 400 AD and it has only been interpreted one time.
If you trust the Catholic Church to decide what books are to be included in the bible then more power to you friend, lol.
The original pages of the Bible, also known as autographs, do not exist because the books were originally written on papyrus scrolls by hand, and the material was easily destroyed. However, there are thousands of handwritten copies of the Bible, or manuscripts, that still exist and can be found in museums, libraries, and private collections around the world. Some of the most notable manuscripts include:
Codex Sinaiticus
This 4th-century Greek manuscript, discovered in 1844 and 1859 at St. Catherine's Monastery on Mount Sinai, is the earliest known manuscript of the Christian Bible. It includes a complete New Testament, the Letter of Barnabas, and most of the Shepherd of Hermas. It is now in the British Museum in London.
The Popes were totally evil and ignorant on some things for example. Even as the flames licked his feet, the polymath Giordano Bruno refused to recant. Now, at least he's gotten an expression of remorse from the Catholic Church. On 17 February--the 400th anniversary of Bruno's auto-da-fé at the hands of the Inquisition in Rome--Cardinal Angelo Sodano declared the heretic's execution to be a "sad episode."
Bruno, a 16th century Dominican friar, was expelled from country after country for heretical views that ranged from dabbling in magic to denying the divinity of Christ. What endears him to modern scientists, though, is that Bruno embraced Copernicus's heliocentric model of the solar system and even went one step further: He declared that Earth was just one of an infinite number of worlds, each perhaps inhabited by creatures entirely foreign to us--and to the church. After a long imprisonment, Bruno was burned at the stake in 1600. It is unclear whether Bruno's cosmology played a role in his condemnation, but he has since become a symbol of a church crusade against the progress of science.
On the anniversary of Bruno's execution, Cardinal Sodano, the second-ranking cleric in the Catholic Church, called the incident an "atrocious death." However, he noted that the Inquisition had tried and condemned Bruno with then-common methods--including torture. Even though some aspects of those procedures are "a reason of deep regret for the church today," he said in a statement, people should not judge those who condemned Bruno: The inquisitors, Sodano maintains, "had the desire to serve freedom and promote the common good and did everything possible to save his life."
The Catholic Church condemned and executed two cosmologists for heresy: Giordano Bruno in 1600 and Galileo Galilei in 1633:
Giordano Bruno
In 1600, the Catholic Inquisition condemned the Dominican friar for his heretical views, which included denying the divinity of Christ, embracing Copernicus's heliocentric model of the solar system, and declaring that Earth was just one of an infinite number of worlds. Bruno was burned at the stake in Rome's Campo de' Fiori. In 2000, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the second-ranking cleric in the Catholic Church, expressed remorse for Bruno's execution.
Galileo Galilei
In 1633, the Italian astronomer and physicist was put on trial for defending his argument that the Earth and other planets revolve around the sun. Galileo's provocative style and personality landed him in trouble, and his technical argument didn't win the day.
@@pandaxx2932 As you can see here, the bible has been translated for hundreds of years with men making mistakes all the time as we know there has only been one perfect man on the earth, Jesus the Christ. the sheer evidence of thousands of Christain Churches who fight and argue of the interpretation of doctrine proves this statement. Many plain and precious things are missing from the bible.
You do not know your bible like you think you do.
The Bible's canon, or the books that are considered divinely inspired and belong in the Bible, has been defined by various councils, synods, and popes over time: Not to mention the council of Nicea in 325 bc where they held a vote and decided that the Trinity doctrine was true even though the original church of Jesus Christ did not believe in the Trinity doctrine
382 AD: The Council of Rome, led by Pope Damasus I, established the Catholic Church's 73-book canon, which includes 46 books in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament.
393 AD: The Synod of Hippo reaffirmed the canon.
397 AD: One of the Councils of Carthage reaffirmed the canon.
419 AD: Another Council of Carthage reaffirmed the canon.
1431-1449 AD: The Council of Florence reaffirmed the canon.
1545-1563 AD: The Council of Trent reaffirmed the canon as an article of faith, and also defined it as the Vulgate based on Jerome's Latin. The Council of Trent was a response to attacks on the canon by early Protestant leaders, including Martin Luther.
1563 AD: The Thirty-Nine Articles established the canon for the Church of England.
1647 AD: The Westminster Confession of Faith established the canon for Calvinism.
We are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints with the restored gospel and church identical to the way Jesus set his church up. We are the only Church in the World with the name of Jesus Christ in it and we claim his divinity and his authority to perform the saving ordinances.
There are only two churches on the earth, the true church of Jesus Christ and the Church of Satan.
@@pandaxx2932 What Bible was used before the King James Version?
Geneva Bible
From 1568 until the printing of the King James Bible in 1611, the Bishops' Bible was effectively the official version of the Church of England. A conglomerate work of sixteen English and Welsh clergymen, it was a revision of the Great Bible, but with the recent Geneva Bible also in mind.
My Testimony is that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God.. I believe and know that Our Father is the Eternal Father and that we have been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who at the moment is in Spirit and witnesses of the Son and The Father.
We love you, Elder Holland and say ‘AMEN’ to everything you have testified of.
Not even those of the Jewish mosaic faith have the trinity
U obviously don't know about the TWO Powers in Heaven israelite theology of the 2nd temple period.
The Visible YHWH and Invisible YHWH R both in Genesis 19:24
They Both R called by the same Name: as Jesus states in John 17 : He has the Same name as the Father ( YHWH).
@@davidjanbaz7728The second temple period was when they lost some important truth(s) and knowledge.
@@doreenb.8928 like what? source?
It is true what the Apostle Jeffery Holland has so eloquently confirmed in his talk. We follow the same Jesus that is in the New Testament. The actual only begotten son of His Father in Heaven and Mary.
True!
you follow the same Jesus that allowed for drinking wine? you follow the same Jesus that said we aren't married in heaven? you follow the same Jesus that said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church?
cuz mormons believe you can't drink wine. mormons believe in marriage in heaven and mormons believe Christ's church failed and had to be restored.
clearly you don't believe in the Jesus in the new testament if you believe mormonism
you follow the same Jesus that allowed for drinking wine? you follow the same Jesus that said we aren't married in heaven? you follow the same Jesus that said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church?
Yes, yes, and yes.
I don't agree with your interpretations. For example, when you state the Jesus said we aren't married in heaven, was he talking about the ceremony of marriage or the state of marriage?
To any mainstream Christian here, I have a question for you. If you dive deep into the difference between the LDS understanding of the Godhead and the Trinity, the differences aren't as far as they are at first glance. Most importantly, Latter-day Saints believe the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three beings united in one partnership (ie. one Godhead). That's at least an understandable idea. And it does NOT contradict any Bible verse that states the three are one. Trinitarians believe the unity between them is complete in every way, but still allowing them to be separate. It's an incomprehensible idea, and the very words of the Athanasian Creed itself refer to them as "incomprehensibles". From a philosophical perspective, please tell me why it is important for them to have that kind of oneness. Why does the doctrine need to be that their unity is an abstract mystery that is above and beyond human understanding? I don't see how making the image of God incomprehensible is a compliment to him. For Latter-day Saints, our understanding of the Godhead is not only more consistent with the Bible, but it's an idea that can be understood, so we know of the love the Father has for the Son, so we know what the purpose of the Son was in coming to save us all, and what the Holy Ghost does in helping us along in our life. Knowing the nature of the Godhead is a beautiful thing to us, and the Trinity wants to transform it into something inconceivable for no real reason. Please tell me why you think it's necessary?
As an non-LDS Christian, I don't recognize either concept of God in the OT or the NT. I recognize God the Father and His Son as the only two divine beings in all the universe and the only two beings worthy of worship. None other is worthy or ever will be worthy.
@@truthbebold4009You forget the Holy Ghost. He is important too.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 The Holy Spirit is important but I do not recognize the Holy Spirit as a being. It is the power and presence of God. I do not pray or worship the Holy Spirit, only God and His Son. Peace 🕊️
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 How can he progress without a body???
The doctrine of the Trinity is important for a multitude of reasons, but the main reason is that it maintains that there is only one God. Not simply one godhead made up of three gods united, but of only one God. We profess that there is one divine being made up of three divine persons. The reason it is incomprehensible is because our earthly minds cannot grasp exactly how three different persons make up one being. We ourselves are one person in one being. The closest we can come to understanding this is in marriage as we see Jesus’ teaching in Mark 10: 7-8. How can two separate people become one flesh? Even that is an incomplete representation of the Trinity, since as all too often is the case, husband and wife are not always one in purpose.
As a Trinitarian, I don’t view it as absolutely necessary to understand how the Trinity works. What I do view as necessary though is understanding that there is only one God, and he has revealed himself in three distinct persons.
Hi this is Tom, when you open the last dispensation, truths have to be told. False doctrines have to be corrected that were preached so falsely and widely, and the Godhead was one of those false doctrines taught. So, if you open the last dispensation, why would God the Father come down with His Son and appear to a young boy? Jesus could have and has done this alone, He has done this millions of times by himself, so why both of them, why now?? The answer is they both came down to testify and show the young boy, Joesph Smith, that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two separate beings. So that Joesph Smith could finally testify that they are not all in one, Godhead. TO SHOW THE TRUTH THAT GOD THE FATHER AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ARE TWO SEPERATE AND DISTINCT BEINGS. Now that testimony of Joesph Smith about the Godhead can finally be told firsthand. They are two separate and distinct beings.
I reject the Trinity but I don't believe the LDS concept of God is a good representation either.
That’s why you need to read the Book of Mormon and then pray about it. That’s how I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter days Saints is true.
@@truthbebold4009 John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
**The Son can do NOTHING OF HIMSELF, BUT WHAT HE SEETH THE FATHER DO.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
**for my Father is greater than I?? Jesus just told you I does nothing for himself and what he seeth the Father do.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
**Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Jesus only does what the Father commands.
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
**Jesus asking Father, remove this cup from me?? why can't or why WILL Jesus not remove it himself?? If I was going to hit my finger with a hammer, why would I ask you if I can't?? If I was acting on my own, why would I ask you anything? Unless you were in charge. Why ASK??
Bible says there is only one God.
Only God can forgive sins as it is God’s law.
Jesus forgives sin and only through him can you be redeemed.
Jesus say multiple times “I am” which means God, hence why they tried to stone him.
Jesus is the Word. And the Word was there before creation.
Jesus says only the son knows the father and the father the son.
You are confining God’s nature and being to your limited human understanding and saying what he cannot be. Do you know him?
Matthew 7 is a good read.
And logically, many men love power and women, even doing evil things to obtain it. So you tell me the Bible is corrupt which is supported by archeological events/tablets/scrolls dating back thousands of years and practiced daily by billions over those years but I should trust some dude in America reading out of a hat (and couldn’t do it again verbatim) is correct and basically the whole Earth of people today who aren’t Morman are going to Hell? And they think they’re going to be Gods and run off and make their own universes? I don’t know God’s nature but I know man’s nature. Dude wanted azz and power. I can understand for people to make up whatever they want to believe but to use my Bible and twist it that bad I must say is hardcore blasphemy.
@@truthbebold4009if you can't believe in here then I believe in redemption of the dead. Then I will be happy if you don't reject it there. Hope you will find the truth soon before your body and spirit separated. Take care!
Thanks for posting this. The most basic, but important information in the world.
I’ve often wondered how others-if they’ve really read the scriptures-can believe they are one being. There are so many scriptures (Elder Holland gave some examples of these) that would support the belief of separate beings, but one in purpose, and no scriptures that support them being ‘one being.’
Thank you Brother Holland. When I was younger I belonged to another church. When I was taught about the trinity. I did not understand it, it made no sense to me. Three separate beings just makes sense.
Are you possibly anthropomorphizing God? That is, trying to understand His nature by comparing Him to your own?
We are unable to understand God, it makes sense, that it doesn't make sense. God wouldn't be God if we could fully comprehend Him. We can NOT make God in our image when we were created in His image.
@@pandaxx2932 The trinity is man made, is false doctrine, was invented in 325 CE and wasn’t taught by Jesus.
It’s probably much more useful to refer to the Athanasian Creed, and similarly Greek-influenced creeds, rather than to say “the Trinity,” per se. I think most Christians think LDS people are entirely rejecting the preeminence of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. But that’s definitely not what we mean.
The fact that so few Christians have seriously studied Christian metaphysics makes this problem even worse. Need to stop talking around each other.
That's part of it for sure, but the thing that many can't really get over is how we have additional mythology regarding the Heavenly Council, Pre-mortality and the co-eternality of divine and human intelligence. That's how you get the shock and horror at the "Jesus and Satan are brothers!!!!" stuff. Their tenants rely on so many pre-suppositions regarding the qualities they think God has to fulfill to be God, while we come at it from a completely different angle. They're God, by definition, needs to be ineffable in some aspect, non-physical, bereft of passions and parts, Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent. We, by contrast, acquaint ourselves with ritual covenants and laws, from which we derive the aspects and nature of God. We have a philosophy, not as a primary tool of inquiry, but as a secondary and adjunct derivative of the priesthood, commandments and covenants. It could be said, that all scripture is derived in a similar way, as the articulation of the otherwise acted.
It makes no sense that Jesus would pray to himself; ask himself to remove the bitter cup from himself, asked himself why he forsake himself on the cross, told Mary he hadn't ascended to himself after his resurrection, performed a ventriloquist act at his baptism, Stephen saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
If we are, as Christ pleaded, to be one with Him as He is one with God, that we may become one with them, that makes us God if they are the same being then so must we be. This makes no sense.
I believe in the biblical God & Christ. Not in an "incomprehensible" man-made creed that came about some 400 years after Christ.
Well put! I think the issue is that most people haven’t read the Bible, so they aren’t aware of those passages.
Thanks for including the source of the video.
You bet!
What a beautiful and true doctrine taught here! The Holy Ghost has revealed this marvelous truth to my soul. I am so thankful to really understand and embrace this knowledge. Thank You!
There is plenty of debates on this, it’s even in the Old Testament.
God came and ate dinner as a man.
“Angel with his face”.
Became spirit.
No, its not in the old testament
If the doctrine is really false, I would not have the power given to me by the Holy Ghost. If the doctrine is false, I cannot believe anything in the Bible or the Book of Mormon. If all this is false, I do not know who Jesus Christ is. Therefore, I testify and know for myself that the gospel has been restored to the earth, just as it was in the past. Christ lives, and He knows that I know as the light that shines in the noonday sun. I bear my solemn witness to the world of the reality of this marvelous and marvelous work. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen!
@@CarlosJose-gv6px With a couple hundred years of Mormon genealogy , pioneer stock , in my blood I can testify to Zero truth to the Mormon gospel , So what I’m hearing you say under your breath is , If a fourteen year old boy that grew up to be a false prophet , Deuteronomy chapter 13:1-5 , Then went on to be a polygamist , Polyamorous prophet conned me how could anything possibly be true , I can see why your in that church , start researching , most of the good stuff the Mormon church has on the website
There churches own website , they just know what would be shocking to most people , is nothing to the average Mormon due to the brainwashing ( WE THANK THEE OH GOD FOR A PROFIT ! ) $ 100-150 billion in a Rainey day fund , Keep paying fools
Constatine called it the trinty but before it was just called the godhead
And it was around at the council of jerusluem in the book of acts
Before they just used the the term godhead to describe it not trinity
To be baptized in the son, the father and the Holy Spirit
I don’t know why the notion of Jesus calling himself equal with the father is somehow anti Bible
It originally said in the name of Jesus
@@ChristisGod124 please provide me your source for further clarification please
Perfection
Here are a few quotes on the invention and development of the Nicene Trinity over 1000 years or so (I have no idea what Christian sect these writers belonged. It’s been too many years since I compiled this list):
It is clearly impossible (if one accepts historical evidence as relevant at all) to escape the claim that the later formulations of dogma cannot be reached by a process of deductive logic from the original propositions and must contain an element of novelty.
Wiles, Making of Christian Doctrine, p. 4.
The emergence of the full trinitarian doctrine was not possible without significant modification of previously accepted ideas.
Wiles, Making of Christian Doctrine, p. 144.
there is no trinitarian doctrine in the Synoptics or Acts.
(in the New Testament) nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead.
in John there is no trinitarian formula.
Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 14, 16, 29.
These passages give no doctrine of the Trinity, but they show that Paul linked together Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They give no trinitarian formula...but they offer material for the later development of trinitarian doctrine.
...(Paul) has no formal trinitarian doctrine and no clearcut realization of a trinitarian problem, but he furnishes much material for the later development of a trinitarian doctrine.
Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 22-23.
There is no formal doctrine of the Trinity in the New Testament writers, if this means an explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. But the three are there, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and a triadic ground plan is there, and triadic formulas are there....The Biblical witness to God, as we have seen, did not contain any formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, any explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons.
Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 32, 35.
The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.
P. Achtemeier, ed., Harper's Bible Dictionary, p. 1099.
This double series of texts manifests Paul's lack of clarity in his conception of the relation of the Spirit to the Son. Paul shares with the OT a more fluid notion of personality than the later theological refinements of nature, substance, and person. His lack of clarity should be respected for what it is and be regarded only as the starting point of later development.
J. Fitzmyer, Pauline Theology: A Brief Sketch, p. 42.
Trinitarian discussion, Roman Catholic as well as other, presents a somewhat unsteady silhouette. Two things have happened. There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century.
R.L. Richard, "Trinity, Holy," in New Catholic Encyclopedia 15 vols., 14:295.
There is in them (the Apostolic Fathers), of course, no trinitarian doctrine and no awareness of a trinitarian problem.
Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, p. 44.
The Church had to wait for more than three hundred years for a final synthesis, for not until the Council of Constantinople (381) was the formula of one God existing in three coequal persons formally ratified.
J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, pp. 87-88.
Where the doctrine (of the Trinity) was elaborated, as e.g. in the writings of the Apologists, the language remained on the whole indefinite, and, from a later standpoint, was even partly unorthodox. Sometimes it was not free from a certain subordinationism.
F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingstone, eds., The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, 2nd ed., p. 1394.
@@JD-pr1et All that to say , We know you don’t believe in the Bible that’s why you have the BOM, with a little research , you’ll find zero historical evidence to back up the BOM, zero archaeological evidence and zero DNA evidence, so all that to say Joe lied
Love it
Thanks for watching.
I always ask who Christ was praying to in Matthew 26:39, was He praying to himself? Are they inferring that our Savior is schizophrenic? They also deny who Stephen saw in Acts 7:55-56, another is found in Genesis 1:26 when God says let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. I could go on all day.
The restoration is in the Bible
Joseph Smith is in the Bible
The Book of Mormon is in the Bible
The temple is in the Bible
But the trinity ain’t it
Can you support your claims with Biblical references?
@@PrairieChristianOutreach yes but it can all be googled and read in books instead.
@@jasongast1806 Correct, and sorry to say that the Bible says nothing about Joseph Smith, the BoM, an earthly New Covenant Temple akin to Mormon concepts, or a restored gospel foreign to the Bible.
However, the theology of the Godhead is definitely in the Bible.
@@PrairieChristianOutreach All references are KJV
General apostasy. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Restoration. Acts 3:21, Ephesians1:9-10 Isaiah 35. There are literally hundreds of other verses about a restoration in the last days and the establishment of a new covenant. I would call it one of the themes of the bible.
Joseph Smith and Book of Mormon in bible. Isaiah the entire chapter 29 (verses 11 and 12 speak of the book of mormon and Joseph Smith.). Learn the history of Charles Anthon in regard to these two verses. The whole chapter actually ties into a lot of history that has already occurred.
Joseph Smith and the 1st vision Jeremiah 30:21 Chapter 30 and 31 should be read entirely, as it deals with the latter-day restoration of Israel by the tribe of Ephraim.
Temple is all over the bible, I don't think you honestly need references there.
Godhead in the bible. John 17:20-23. It explains what "One" God means. Acts 7:55-56 When Stephen saw both The Father and the Son together, separate beings. Many many other examples as well if needed.
Trinity is not biblical. It was born 325AD with the Nicene creed and it died Spring 1820 with the personal visitation of the Father and Son to earth.
There you go.
Those who believe the 3-in-1 myth are never able to explain who Jesus was praying to, nor who He asked to take the "cup" from Him, "but not as I will, as Thou wilt "
And how the Father knows the day and the hour of the 2nd coming but the Son doesn't.
Not to mention the trinity is confusing and God isn’t the God of confusion.
Amen
Jesus Christ prayed to the Father because he is God the son aka son of God the second person in the Trinity. The Trinity is God that exists as three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the teachings of the Trinity, they are not the same person they are distinct from each other.
Can't find the term 'trinity' in the kjv... .
Can’t find 'nice' in there either🤷♂️
Good job you just debunked one of the oldest church theologies out there even notice it’s heavily implied in the Bible that there is a Trinity.
I accept you despite our differences in beliefs, @@AurelianTheRestorerOfRome. Thank you for the factual, however salty, compliment.
However there's three mentions of the "Godhead". Which is far from the amalgamation that is the Grecian/Mycenean Trinity.
@@jeffreypacker8608 Did you learn anything from his salty comment or will you keep posting, "Can't find the term 'trinity' in the kjv..."?
No. But I might refer to trinity as 'mutant god' and everyone would know what I was talking about @@blusheep2
Did you ever hear what the Spirit has to say? Why did God incorporate his trinity into his creation, if he wasn't trinity? How about, 1john 5:7?
God didn't put that in there. A scribe named Erasmus did. It was added to the Bible. Google "johannine comma". You'll see that even conservative scholars agree that it wasn't in the original texts. And of course, that also casts serious doubt on the Bible as an infallible, God-breathed text. We agree it's inspired, but men are not perfect. God uses men to transmit his will. Imperfect men.
@@TheRealDonLayton As far as I have read, Erasmus isn't the one who put it in there. Erasumus left it out of his first two Greek-Latin versions because it wasn't in any of his Greek manuscripts, and only added it into his third version after being accused of trying to revive Arianism. So it must predate Erasmus.
This debate is now, over!
All I can say is the God the Catholics teach about and the sacraments they teach about are both true and effective. I can say that Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament is indeed Jesus, body, blood, soul and Divinity, and that He is very alive indeed, and to this day listens to prayers and does indeed answer them in miraculous ways, and in so doing may also enlist the work of His saints in Heaven, who intercede in prayer for those on earth. I can say unequivocally, the saints in Heaven are alive, and the teachings of the Catholic Church are both true and real in every way.
I personally am witness to the power of Christ through His Church, His Blessed Sacrament and His True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. I can attest to the reality of the communion of saints having seen them act in my own life.
I have witnessed the Lord Jesus doing mighty wonderous deeds in the sun in the sky itself, and I have received the multiplication of Holy Oil at His direction through the communion of Saints. I can attest that the Indian maiden known as Kateri, Lily of the Mohawks is indeed alive and intercedes and has interceded on my behalf.
I can attest that Jesus Christ is the Lord God, One in Being with the Father and the Spirit, and I can attest that Mary His mother is indeed, as is fitting, the Queen Mother.
Repent of your sins, the hour is very late, and the Lord waits for your return. Do not delay, do not let the claims of others stop you. For He is alive, He has ONE church, and HE HAS NEVER LEFT US!
Want proof? It exists, look to Father Chris Alar and the miracles he speaks of, look to Medjugorje and the millions who have seen the power of God there, look, seek, knock and you will find Him.
Amen
Why does Genesis 1 say they made man in "our" image? That obviously means plural, but in mormon theology, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were spirits, so clearly there could be no "our image" in mormonism. So, once again, mormonism doesn't coincide with the Bible.
God the Father had a body.
How ironic the same person who says the trinity isn’t found in the New Testament but came later is also the same person who holds to the canon not being closed. The doctrine of the trinity is not only found in the New Testament it’s found in the Old Testament. He literally quotes Paul when Paul said Jesus was equal with God and this guy completely missed the point.
Paul said Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Meaning Jesus is equal with God but he thought it not robbery therefore he humbled himself and gave up that position in order to come save humanity.
This is the problem with cults…they use different standards by which they judge. This guy criticized early church fathers as being misinformed but then turns around and says a young boy in the 1800 who was confused already somehow got supernatural clarity…but this is what cults do. They make you turn your brain off and cause you to suppress the truth even though you know it makes no sense..you have to hold on to lies because without lies cults die.
We claim the to worship the Almighty God according to the dictates of our conscience and allow all men the same principle, let them worship how, where or what they may. THAT'S FREEDOM OF RELIGION. WE ARE NOT A CULT!!!!!! JUST BELIEVE IN A GODHEAD NOT TRINITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@jeanleatham2080 you have the freedom to do whatever you want..it doesn’t make it right or true that’s all I’m saying. I can call myself a lizard..I have that freedom…doesn’t mean it’s true. I know it’s hard for you to image you’ve been lied to and fooled but you have been. You’ve been condition to think the way you do and say things like the Trinity is evil and all that when Trinity is literally a word. It’s literally a word that describes God. Just like Omnipresent or omniscient describes God and you’d agree with those..yet those words aren’t in the Bible. Trinity is literally a word used to describe God. It is manmade because all words are manmade.
When you understand that Jesus is a God and that being "one" doesn't mean the being the same person or being or essence, you can see through the Trinity.
We respect your belief but the Trinity is not a true doctrine.
I'm not here to argue with you, but the word trinity is not found in the King James version of the Holy Bible. It may have been added in a later version and that I would not know.
@@CalledtoShare since you say Jesus is a god is Jesus a true god or a false god?
The Trinity is that God is one being that exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that they are the same person.
Jeffrey Holland at 1:52 in the video describes the Trinity correctly Trinitarians believe that God is three separate distinct persons from one nature substance that he shares is different in the LDS Church.
Only fools make complex issues out of the simple Word of God.
Is this a response to the clip posted today by Thoughtful Faith with Trent Horn?
I have often thought, in accordance with Thoughtful Faith’s video, that if the definition of “Christian” means believing in the corrupt trinitarian definition of Jesus then I don’t want anything to do with it. When they said we believe in a “different Jesus” I couldn’t agree with them more. This is why I don’t care much for interfaith efforts and I have no desire to “fit in” with mainline Christians. I’m weird and I like it!
No, it's not. Haven't seen that clip.
Do you care to briefly explain what you do believe in and why, out of curiosity?
I've heard the suggestion that the Church should start considering itself the fourth Abrahamic religion. Given our distinct differences from Christianity and our similarities with Judaism and Islam, I'm all for it.
@@weirdsweetcoolplants to be clear, I believe Latter-day Saints are Christians. True Christians. Who believe in the true Christ. What I am saying is that if you define “Christian” as being “someone who adheres to the creedal definition of Christ” then by that definition, I am not a “Christian”, or more appropriately names, I am not a “Creedal Christian”.
I am a saint (but that word’s definition has some complexity to it too)
I am 21 years now as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And by attending siminaries and institute ( which studies Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, words of the living prophets) Attending Sacraments, and reading any other good books temporal or spiritual, following all of His commandments despite of the tests and trials but the knowledge of truth and the love of the Father and His Son lights my way to go back to Their presence. We can help each other only we need to be humble before God. Take care!
@@MaryBarluado All that to show your brainwashed , Give up false gospels ,fake prophets , quit believing a lie and turn to the Bible , the rest is hogwash ,easily to prove if you would just look , Eternity is a long time to be wrong , when there is Zero DNA evidence, zero archaeological evidence something is wrong
The Father, The Son. The Wind, The Breath, too The Bride. The Father, Holy Ghost, Wind. The Son, Holy Spirit, Breath. The Bride, third part of the Trinity. Jesus inside you, The Hope, a Vessel overflowing, breath. The Hope Of Glory. Family, John 14: 16-26. AMEN Not a Traditions of men(religions), follower. "The traditions of men make void the commandments of GOD". > U look that one up yourselves.
Listen to the still small voice. Some may think this isn’t true at their first thought but if you clear you heart, mind, and soul. You will feel something. Maybe the back of your head, maybe your heart, maybe your chest, and maybe your shoulders. But somewhere a still small voice will tell you everything in this video is true.
All that is, is your own desire. Nothing more, nothing less.
@@Ewokforlife It could be gas pain , don’t you think the Johovah witness have a feeling , or the Muslims , God gave all of us a brain , if you research the BOM you will find zero historical evidence, zero DNA EVIDENCE and zero archeological evidence, now the Bible is the opposite, there find evidence all the time.
Jesus Himself in the first vision declared the creeds to be an abomination. They are divisive, distant, and unclear. Thanks be to God for the restored gospel!
What a blessing to have more pieces to the puzzle of truth!
@@Silarias Jesus said “ I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail , now who are you siding with a 14 year old Conman , who grew up to be a known pedifile and lier or Jesus , Why would you put your faith in man ? Man will let you down , Jesus won’t , Have you ever questioned Joe credibility, No , That’s obvious, that’s why your still a Mormon ! The whole story rises or falls on his words , please look , Eternity is a long time to be wrong !
@@Silarias You mean the demon appeared and talk to him , he changed that story many times also , the whole thing is a lie ,start to finish.
I see your young , Do some honest research , you’ve been lied to about Mormonism ,
@@Silarias Jesus said ( I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail) someone lied , Jesus cannot lie.
Latter Day Saints know the Bible compilation better than the members of the other churches. This is proof that LDS scripture is from above. Otherwise how would you explain that mans knowledge suddenly increased?
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii once again ,Zero Historical evidence for the BOM, zero archaeological evidence for the BOM , zero DNA ,so what does that mean ? Nothing but a fairy tale.
Jesus was worshipped many times by his apostles and others, explain why he never rebuked it? Itll say this doctrine is…
Jesus Christ is a god. He is a separate being from the Father.
@@BobEvans-l9x i know that but what does Colosians 1:13-20 say? He is God in the flesh all things were made through him for him. Thats why we Christians believe in a Triune God, Holy spirit is Gods spirit
Having added a whole other book as Scripture to the Bible kind of negates any opinion the LDS might have on the Bible.
Not at all. This content directly relates to the Bible itself, and how the New Testament has no clear doctrine of a Trinity. You can remove the Book of Mormon entirely from this conversation, and it still relates to the falsehood of the Trinity concept.
Hmm. Funny that's the same reasoning the Jews have with Christians and the New Testament. Religions will change but people won't.
@@GreatRemembrance "I and my Father are one" John 10:30. I would say that is abundantly clear that Jesus the Son and God the Father are the same being. If you need another example look at John 1:1-14. The word "Trinity" may not be in the Bible, but the concept is.
What version of the bible do you read?
@@ameyers67 King James, New King James, New American Standard, and English Standard Version. Which one do you read?
The new testament clearly shows The Holy Ghost is God.. as Peter tells us anias and sapphira that lying to The Holy Ghost is in fact lying to God-->
acts 5:3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
If you're not Trinitarian you're not Christian
Says the Bible never…
@@CalledtoShare if you're not Trinitarian you're out of line with biblical Christianity, what the Appstles taught, and what the Church taught and defended up until the 1800s when Mormonism was founded 🤷♂️
The Bible teaches that they are two separate beings, as is shown in the vision of Stephen in Acts 7.
@@CalledtoShare Christians have no problem with that passage. We know they're two distinct hypoatases (persons) who share one ousias (essence). It sounds like you think Christian trinitarianism is modalism
There is a very strong argument that Joseph Smith in the early days of the church believed in the trinity that is why one of the different versions of the 1st vision only mentions one person, and the Book of Mormon leans heavily on the idea of the trinity. As time went on Joseph Smiths view point changed as well as other doctrine changes.
The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon is clearly Trinitarian
It's an extremely weak argument. The claim is that Joseph Smith didn't publicly teach the current LDS view of the Godhead until his later years, specifically 1843 and beyond. It can be shown to be incorrect.
Joseph attested in Nauvoo that "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods." Even though he didn't have the account of the First Vision written until the Nauvoo period, there are several earlier accounts from members and non-members who support his claim. For example, a Presbyterian minister named Truman Coe, very well acquainted with the LDS Saints in Kirtland, wrote the following: “They contend that the God worshipped by the Presbyterians and all other sectarians is no better than a wooden god. They believe that the true God is a material being, composed of body and parts; and that when the Creator formed Adam in his own image, he made him about the size and shape of God himself” (Backman, “Truman Coe’s 1836 Description of Mormonism,” Ohio Observer, 347-354).
This claim comes from Joseph Smith, in the Fifth Lecture on Faith, where they believe he taught something close to the doctrine of the trinity. Here's the quote:
"There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made, whether visible or invisible, whether in heaven, on earth, in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man"
The quote is taken out of context. If you continue a few lines down the lecture, you'll find that Joseph teaches that both the Father and the Son were "personages" of "tabernacle", meaning that they had form, and that man was formed after his likeness and in his image. Further, the form of the Father was described as the same as the image of the son.
I propose that you give serious consideration to the non biblical, and nonsensical doctrine of the trinity, as outlined in the Nicaean Council of 325 AD.
@@donlayton8781 Are you familiar with the changes made to the 1837 Book of Mormon? The 1830 version has the following verses in 1 Nephi:
1 Nephi 11:18 - "Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh."
1 Nephi 11:21 - "And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?"
1 Nephi 11:32 - "And it came to pass the angel spake unto me again, saying, look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record."
1 Nephi 13:40 - "And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which is of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain the precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world; and that all men must come unto Him, or they cannot be saved;"
@@smaug3045 Very true , but that’s the beauty of a modern day prophet , they can change like the wind and there members never question
If the Trinity is not real, and only God is eternal (because of the others were eternal they would be God) then how can God be loving AT ALL? If He doesn't have love to himself, and the Spirit and The Son, how can God be loving?
The trinity is true because God is loving.
Read the true scripture of the Bible and find the true God. Praying for you, Love you all.
they open the door to criticism and expose there false doctrine
It’s incredible how he speaks with such authority
Prophets are among us!
@@stevenupham839 but yet he believes Joe was a prophet ,silly.
its not false doctrine the bible supports the trinity
Stephen saw Jesus standing next to God. Two separate people.
The false doctrine of "Sola scriptura" is born in XVI century
This shows that you are willingly able to deny the things in the bible for ur own doctrine
Word Trinity not mentioned in Bible but is described. Mormonism started in 1820s what went on before that
Mormonism is the restoration of the principles and doctrines that God taught to Adam from the beginning and that Christ restored to the earth during his ministry.
@@CalledtoShare your Exaltation by Mormon temple rituals is NOT in the Bible either so get rid of those or your just being a biased hypocrite.
@davidjanbaz7728 the major difference in LDS theology and yours is that you believe the Billions of people that never understood the Trinity as you do are going to Hell. For us, anyone that didn't have the opportunity to make covenants in the Temple will be afforded that right in the after life.
I'm relieved that the God I believe in wouldn't cast billions of people into Hell simply because they never had to the opportunity to be as enlightened as you are on the subject.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Question....if Mormons end up in heaven would you rather be in heaven with them or go to hell because you don't like them? Everyone knows the trinity is bad theology.
Luckily, the truth is that almost everyone gets into one degree of heaven or the other 🙌
As Latter-day Saints, we believe in what’s called “Social Trinitarianism”
We are Social Trinitarians
One of the earliest quotes outside the Bible that explicitly refers to Jesus as God comes from Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of the apostles, an early Church Father who lived in the late 1st and early 2nd centuries. In his letters written around 110 AD, he frequently refers to Jesus as God.
In his letter to the Ephesians, Ignatius writes:
“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.”
- Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians, Chapter 7.
Show me the proof he learned this from an apostle of Jesus Christ, you can't.
Jesus was a God in flesh form, but not God the Father. They are two separate beings.
@@Rudyard_Stripling you show yourself ignorant when you ask a question and assume there is no answer. You believing in a cult is starting to make sense..nonetheless maybe this will help. Just to be clear this is the same historical method we use for other ancient historical figures…so if you’re asking for a photograph then no I don’t have that but if you’re asking for me to provide the same ancient historical evidence we use for people like Alexander the Great or Plato, Socrates, Aristotle then here you go.
there are multiple sources but most of my preferred sources come from the early church fathers disciples/students.
Ignatius and Polycarp were both viewed as direct disciples of the Apostle John.
One source comes from Irenaeus of Lyons (Polycarp’s student) he wrote this down in “Against Heresies”
“But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried on earth a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffered martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true.”
This is one of my favorite sources because this is his student writing about his teacher and that his teacher was in fact in connection with the apostles. We know his teacher lived during the lifetime of the apostles and was carried to Rome as a martyr. It makes sense there are others who spoke to the apostles and wrote about them because they were real people. This can be validated unlike Joseph Smiths claims…he lied about what knowledge he knew..and he is also known for killing a man…also there’s the underage girl he married…but you can believe that kid who said he was confused about the church and conveniently got a revelation..one in which wasn’t given before but only by him.
This is the definition of a cult..but I guess if there are people in Japan who believed in a toilet god..I guess it’s not hard to see Americans falling for a little kid telling them he knows something all the other churches in the world don’t know
@@SundayVibesmusic Here's a fun practical test! Tell me why Modalism is wrong without sounding like a Mormon...
Ignatius` letter to the Smyrnaeans: Flee from schism as the source of mischief. You should all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ did the Father. Follow, too, the presbytery as you would the apostles; and respect the deacons as you would God’s law. Nobody must do anything that has to do with the Church without the bishop’s approval. You should regard that Eucharist as valid which is celebrated either by the bishop or by someone he authorizes. Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Without the bishop’s supervision, no baptisms or love feasts are permitted. On the other hand, whatever he approves pleases God as well. In that way everything you do will be on the safe side and valid.
Yeah and God the Father is a elevated man .. this is why you are outsiders.
If you believe in the Trinity could you please explain Acts 7-55-56 and also explain when the Savior was on the cross He somehow " forsook" Himself? Ive never heard an intelligent answer to either question...Thanks..
There are two different issues in your question. The idea of Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and God being referred to as separate from Jesus.
You could use any number of verses to pose this question. The "why have you forsaken Me," verse. "I don't do anything that I don't see the Father doing" verse. The "not my will but your will be done" verse, etc.
These are reasonable questions but the answer comes down to two truths about the incarnation. First is the verse in Philippians 2:6-8
_who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross._
This verse reveals the duel nature of Christ. His godly nature and His humanity. That leads to the second truth and that is the idea of idolatry. Idolatry is worshiping the creature and not the creator. The human person of Christ is not divine. It is a creation that Christ humbled Himself to take on. The scripture is therefore, very careful to not direct worship to the human person of Christ but only His eternal nature.
As for the "sitting at God's right hand..." This is an idiom. Scripture doesn't teach us that God has a body. It says He is spirit. There is imagery of a throne, but creation is His throne. "Sitting as God's right hand" is an idiom for sharing the power.
Whenever, Christ is spoken of as an incarnation then there is a distinction made between Him and God and that is to avoid idolatry.
Now this might sound like rationalization to you but its not. Its a forced conclusion because if we like it or not, scripture presents Christ as God incarnate.
Ok. Sorry. But any answer that begins with the question having issues is never a good start and I know immediately a mush pot answer is coming. To say Christ was not divine in the flesh is absolutely false. He was perfect. He had no blemish physically until the appointed time and no blemish of spirit... Sinless. He was and is of a divine nature. Secondly The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints says that when the Lord says to become one we believe it to be symbolic of God and Jesus being one on Nature and purpose not physically and yet we are written off by people who say that is to be taken literal. But then the same people say what Stephen saw in Acts was not really 2 separate beings and the scripture is not to be taken literally. And your answer to this question is different than almost every preacher, pastor or other "Christians" I have asked. You all have a different answer for the same question using the same bible. If there was a true answer (that is an answer with all truth) you would have the same answer for the question. But y'all do not You all differ in your answers. You claim to believe in the same creed made up by men to explain God but have varying and different answers to how to answer the 2 questions I have answered. According to the creed that describes the Trinity which is wholly impossible to understand God is without parts or passions and without form yet there are plenty of scriptures that say the exact opposite. And finally if God doesn't have a body...why do we? If He truly made us in His image why are not floating masses of spirit and blobness? If I showed you a picture of a bike and asked you to bring me something made in the image of the bike would you bring me a pumpkin? Or a phone...or anything else. No. Yoh would bring me something that I could look at and say yes that looks like or similar to a bike. God the Father SENT his Son even Jesus Christ. Why would God say such simple pure doctrine to us if what He really meant was I changed into human form and became Jesus which I will refer to as my Son but isn't really my Son its just me in human form so I am God but in human form I am the Son of Myself...that makes as much sense as the creeds...and the Trinity which makes no sense...
Does this mean Jesus is a separate God from The Father? Meaning there are 3 Gods including the Holy Ghost?
Yes
Three divine beings united by love into one eternal godhead.
🙌
Lds is pure polytheistic innovation. I'm proud to be an ex member.
Either God the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone, or they don't.
I'm sure it's a choice but I'm sad and how much more They who are with you in the pre - existence. I hope and pray you can come back. Take care!
Well said!
I'm so glad to hear this. Amen 🙏
Thank you for watching!
Praying that you guys see the truth from the Bible, which was completed in 1500 yrs ago revelation being the last , yes God the Father , son and holy spirit.
Speaking as a traditional Christian, I think your views on the doctrine of the Trinity lacks balance. Please study the historical background of how the doctrine came about. The traditional verbiage of the Nicene creed was used as a way to confess that Jesus was truly God, not a lesser creature that Arius was teaching which conflicts with the clear teaching of scripture (e.g., John 1 and Colossians 1). The terms used to describe the oneness and threeness of the Godhead in the Nicene creed are not sacrosanct, but were adopted since Arius could not accept the term for the oneness of God, so that is what was used in the wording. 🙂
The trinity was invented in the year 325 CE so it’s not what early Christians believed, therefore the trinity is false doctrine. Not to mention it’s confusing and God isn’t the God of confusion.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679, just curious what early Christian writings you have read? Regards.
1 John 4 Test the Spirits
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
Are there any denominations besides y'all that don't recognize the trinity?
First, don't call them a denomination because that equalizes them with mainstream Christianity which they are not a part of.
Second, to answer your question, most of the sects of Christianity(some would say cults) deny the trinity. Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Oneness Pentacostals, 7th Day Adventists, Hebrew Israelites and probably more.
I think all Christian denominations accept the Trinity except us.
@@CalledtoShare Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Hebrew Israelites, 7th Day Adventists, Oneness Pentecostals, Unitarians, all reject the Trinity.
@@CalledtoShare You are wrong on this. Look it up
Got it, thanks
Odd, as a traditional Christian I’m always told by LDS that I should go to faithful members to explain what the church teaches about their beliefs instead of scary “anti-Mormons”, but I’m supposed to listen to LDS when they try to talk about traditional Christianity? 😂
What did Elder Holland say about traditional Christianity that was incorrect?
@@CalledtoShare
He tries to cite Harper’s Bible Dictionary in support of his claim that the doctrine of the Trinity has no basis in the New Testament, but looking at the context of citation he uses lessens the impact he hopes to provide. For more context here is the sentence he quoted along with the one immediately following it:
“The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT. Nevertheless, the discussion above and especially the presence of trinitarian formulas in 2 Cor. 13:14 (which is strikingly early) and Matt. 28:19 indicate that the origin of this mode of thought may be found very early in Christian history.”
Notice the “nevertheless” in the next sentence? The formal doctrine of course isn’t in the NT, but the conceptual basis certainly is. The formal definition in the Nicene creed was used to reject the teaching of Arius who taught Jesus was a creature rather than the Creator as the NT clearly teaches (e.g., John 1 and Colossians 1).
From what I’ve read in the Book of Mormon and the Lectures on Faith in early LDS works there seemed to be much closer affinity to historic Christian orthodoxy than developed in later LDS ideas on the nature of the Godhead.
@@CalledtoShare, did you delete my previous comment?
Nope, didn’t delete it. I see it.
@@CalledtoShare, thanks! 👍
Was just curious as I don’t see it on my side. Trying to keep it civil without engaging in polemics. 🙂
John 1. The word was God, and the word became flesh.
Title page Book of Mormon. Jesus Christ is the very eternal father. Mosiah 1 God Himself will come here to save us.
Luke 10 only those who God tells will know who He is.
The one God manifest in three. Not hard to understand. What is hard for Mormons to understand is there is only ONE GOD.
One in that they don't require different things from us. They have the same commandments and path to heaven. That is what the oneness implies. But three separate beings, three Gods, one Godhead.
Members of the LDS Church *do* believe in one God. We also believe in Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. What about that is hard for Christians to understand?
Well, we believe that God the Father is a God, Jesus Christ is a God, and that the Holy Spirit is a God.
If the doctrine and beliefs are different, why do you want to be the same?
We don’t want to be the same. We don’t want to be classified “non Christian” based on false and unbiblical, manmade creeds or trinitarian constructs. We believe the Bible. Our faith reconciles otherwise contradictory statements in the Bible. I am a non credal Christian. I am a follower of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Who wants to be the same as who?
@@latter-daysaintchristian4134 You don't want to be the same but you want the same label?
I actually like the phrase "non credal Christian". I think that might be a good compromise.
I've heard active LDS say they are not Christian before.
I don’t really care if people think I’m Christian or not. What I do want people understanding is that I believe in Jesus Christ and that he is my savior.
@@CalledtoShare That's a very fair offer. "Belief" in Christ isn't what makes you a Christian.
James 2:19 implies that the devil "believes" in Christ.
The LDS teaching is to worship a God named Elohim and NOT to worship the God called Christ.
This is the key difference. Traditional Christians reject the worship of all other gods except Christ. Worship is different than belief.
When I was Mormon I use to agree with this because my concept of the trinity was a straw man.
As an LDS man, my understanding of the historical view of the trinity is spelled out by the Nicaean Creed. Exactly how is my understanding a straw man? The creed states:
We believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made
of one essence with the Father
by whom all things were made
who for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man
And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father
He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; whose Kingdom shall have no end
And in the Holy Spirit
@@donlayton8781 Red Herring. Your knowledge of the Trinity has nothing to do with me, or many of my peers, being taught a straw man of the Trinity.
@@samgrant6638 OK Sam. I thought it would be interesting to see exactly how your and my understanding of the Trinity aligned or differed. Be well.
@@donlayton8781 fair. Peace be upon you
A true spiritual giant! ❤
The correct interpretation is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE God. They even have a singular pronoun “He”. How is that so confusing?
Because the trinity as modern Christians understand it is not well supported in the New Testament.
@@caseykaelin9430 Don’t modern day Christians define God as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as ONE God?
I thought that was textbook trinitarian definition.
@@markandpamtaylor8341As I understand it God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three people but one substance. Thus they are one God.
@@caseykaelin9430 Who told you they are “three people but one substance”?
They are ONE God. Not one in purpose. Not one substance. One God.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE God.
Is that “Trinity”? I don’t know. I really don’t care. It’s truth and that’s all that really matters, right?
@@markandpamtaylor8341 Probably before we get involved in a big discussion we had better be clear on how you have one God but three being. Keep in mind when Jesus prays to the Father he says "not my will be done but thy will be done", These beings have two separate wills, they are not the same person.
It wasnt refferd to as the trinity back then it was reffered to as the godhead back then
The trinity existed its just they used the term godhead to describe it
The identity and reality of God the Father, Elohim, and His most Beloved Son, Jesus Christ,(Jehovah), was made known to Adam and Eve, and has been known by every righteous prophet, apostle, or disciple of Christ since.
Prove this.
@@blusheep2I testify that those who humble themselves meek and submissive will be numbered among the righteous and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God here on Earth and was restored by the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. And the book of Mormon is Another testament of Jesus Christ happens for the first people in America from the descendants of Joseph Manasseh which is Lehi and his family. I maybe far from this country and I've been working everywhere away from my country but in my walked there's no other religion that can help us in going back to our Father in Heaven only in and by His true gospel here on Earth. The blood of the Prophet Joseph sealed that book through his blood in His witness that His true church is here on Earth now, many are called but few are chosen and why they are not chosen because their heart sets too much of this world that they forgot what happens before they are in their mother's womb. Those who wanted to know the truth. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the living truth. If you don't believe there's still chance after this life but incomplete and regret while you can do in this life. Take care!
He is speaking the truth
Acts 6:55-56
Its actually Acts 7:55-56...but YES THIS!!!...I've never heard a intelligent answer to this scripture...It is an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ describing seeing God...separate from His Son even our Lord and Savior ..."Christians" don't have an answer for this Scripture...
The actual word "God" did not come into usage in Christianity until Gothic Bibles were Translated in the Forth Century. The word "Trinity" actually predates the word "God" in its usage in Christian History. The Apostles of Christ did not even have a word for :Eternal" or "Eternity" when using Greek to write the original New Testament or Hebrew and or Greek Old Testament. Instead the term "Eternal" came after the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible was translated. Previously the Greek only has words like "Eon" that stand for ages of time was used not "Eternity". Yet the LDS extra-Biblical Scriptures that claim to predate 400 A.D. Latin era use the word "Eternal". Even the D&C uses this Latin, apostate word "Eternal" and "Eternity". It is also true that the term "Eternal Progression" that is key to the LDS worldview is found nowhere in the Bible or any LDS Standard Work. On top of all of this nowhere in the LDS Standard Works is there an explicit statement or teachings that says the Godhead is composed of three separate gods or three beings. Instead it is interpreted by reading into the LDS extra-biblical texts. At best a reader can only claim that the three beings, three gods of the godhead is implied. Some Mormon offshoot groups are Trinitarian due to this situation. The Traditional Christians have a much stronger case for the Trinity than Mormons do for there godhead of three gods doctrine.
@@HickPreacher-wj8lm Actually, we have the stronger case. Trinitarians dont. God the Father and Jesus are two separate beings. The bible proves us right and disproves the trinity entirely.
This is my testimony as well!
Haha the Christian’s are going to go nuts over this 😂
Yep :)
Unfortunately if you change how God is defined then you worship a different god. The LDS god is not the same God of Israel. It is nice to use all the same names and language but if God is different in nature and origin then it is a different god. It is ok for LDS to have it's own god however the question of if you are saved is a different question. If you want to believe in Christianity then eliminate all the other nonsense and focus on having a relationship with the Lord. If you want to be LDS then focus on everything the church of LDS demands of you. Unfortunately the two paths are contradictory in many ways and in some it it aligns. Look to the true meaning of Matthew 7:21-23. I would also encourage you to get a KJV that's not altered by the LDS church. Many changes have been made to fit Joseph Smith's religious beliefs that moves us away from Christianity.
If my only source of information were the Bible, I would be able to understand where you are coming from. However, God has called living prophets who can reveal to us line upon line, precept on precept.
@@CalledtoShare like I said LDS, Muslims, Jews and Christians have their own religion. It is ok to have your own beliefs but be honest about it. LDS would be much more justified if they just declared themselves it's own belief system. I honestly think they refused to do that bc it's easier to convert the informed Christians by using common language. I do pray for everyone in LDS to have the revelation about the truth of their own beliefs
We are our own belief system. That is was necessitated the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ because the world was in a state of confusion in regards to truth.
@@CalledtoShare this is the most honest response I've ever gotten from someone in LDS even if the belief system is based on false pretenses.
Alot of churches teach there three with some diffrences but we do believe in the trinity we just dont call it that at church we reffer to it as the godhead
No, the Trinity teaches the unknowable God. Three persons in one person.
Uuh it is found here
1 John 5:7 (KJV)
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Also the book of mormon is a false gospel as CLEARLY in the bible it already mentions if any man or an angel preached any other gospel let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:8 (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Yes. I am an ex Mormon. I was led out of the church by God. In Mormonism we are taught to trust our feeling in our heart, but God spoke to me, and I found that his voice was way more reliable than any mormon teaching or prophet. Since I have come out I have been able to see the lies and the misinformation that surrounds the LDS church. Now I truly hope that God leads others out of the false religion as he led me out.
The origin story is that Joseph Smith saw two personages. One claiming to be God and saying the other is his son Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, nobody can see God and live.
@@kittiemarie1235 Amen!!
@@kittiemarie1235 God doesn’t contradict Himself. You lie. All teachings of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is of God. God led me to the church. I think you’ve been deceived.
@@latter-daysaintbatman2679 and I believe you’ve been deceived. You see, in the LDS church you are bound by the laws, ordinances, and covenants that the church brought back. The very same ones that Jesus died to fulfill on the cross. The Bible makes it clear that we are no longer bound by the law since Jesus paid the wages of those sins with his sacrifice upon the cross. This makes his gift free for all, but it means no amount of “works,” we could do would make us worthy to enter the kingdom of God. We get there only through Christ So long as we accept in our hearts and rely on Jesus Christ for the renewal of our hearts and the forgiveness of our sins. Since we are saved by grace and grace alone through Jesus, going to a temple (in which Jesus said that God does not reside in,) to uphold these very same laws, ordinances, and covenants, is equivalent to rejecting the gift that Jesus died for and freely gave to everyone.
I do not deny that you truly believe in the church. But that is the extent of your belief. You believe in the church more than in Jesus Christ and his grace. As a believer in Christ I do not need any church or any religion. Instead I need Jesus and I rely on him for everything.
early believers were known as Ελληνικη [ unity in being with victory ] ΑΩ
Worshiping the Lord as a human being is a good thing, however, believing in three separate beings isn't. After the resurrection, the three personas or appearances (not people) were united in one as the Divine Human. To say there are three gods, however, denies the Divine Human of the Lord and places his divinity elsewhere. This, in effect, converts the LDS doctrine into faith alone, which then is no better than the Protestant doctrine.
Then please explain Acts 7:55-56 to me and tell me Stephen...an Apostle of Jesus Christ didn't see 2 separate and distinct personages....I'll wait...
@@rdancranston The term "right hand of God" symbolizes almighty power, specifically the power of the Lord in respect of Divine Truth. When the Bible mentions the "right hand of God," it refers to the Lord's ability to operate with omnipotence through the Human form He took upon Himself in the world. This power allows Him to conquer the hells, bring order to the heavens, redeem humanity, and continue to do so eternally.
The concept of the "right hand of God" is not about physical placement but signifies the Lord's omnipotence. This divine power is evident in various passages from the Psalms and Isaiah, where it is described as breaking enemies, supporting, and upholding. The right hand represents power, the arm strength, and the light of the face Divine Truth from Divine Good.
And so, rather than being literal, it’s symbolic. The Apostles often spoke using Biblical symbolism and poetry that they were very familiar with.
Well while I agree with your right hand concept of power Stephen CLEARLY states that he sees the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. This is two separate beings he is seeing. Also is says he was " full of the Holy Ghost. So he was full of the Holy Ghost and saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God. 3 distinct personages. The creed states you cannot divide the substance...yet this scripture does exactly that. The creed is a mass confusion of a poor attempt by man to describe their own ideas of a "Trinity"... also Jesus asks God why He has forsaken him...how can He forsake himself from himself if you cannot divide the substance?...it makes no sense and I'm sorry but your answer while mingled with some truth also fails miserably...
@@rdancranston To understand it takes an understanding of God’s love as a symbol of the Father within as his eternal soul, and if you miss that you won’t be able to see or hear the Lord’s words according to the inner sense of them. I’m sorry that I can’t help. The Lord will have to open it up to you as you’re ready.
2 Nephi 2:25 is another great example of false doctrine. Also the LDS "Restoration" is another example of false doctrine. The LDS church can point fingers all they want and claim things false, but their doctrine is no better.
How is this false doctrine?
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
@latter-daydiscussions4289 that scripture is stating that it was a good thing to disobey God, or in other words, sin is a good thing. It, at best, makes God into a liar.
2 Nephi 2:25 teaches that the Fall of Adam and Eve was necessary for humanity to exist and experience joy, but it does not promote sin or disobedience as good things. Instead, it highlights that through the Fall, we can make choices and ultimately find joy by following God's commandments and relying on Christ's Atonement. Sin is not seen as good, but the opportunity to choose and grow is part of God's plan for our happiness.
@northerngeek4298 You just contradicted yourself and proved my point right. If sin is necessary for God's plan, and/or for our happiness, then yes, the scripture is promoting sin.
Another way to show this is to ask the questions "was it possible for Adam and Eve to keep both commandments according to the BOM?" and "what would have happened if Adam and Eve were able to keep both commandments?" If the BOM was not promoting sin, the better outcome for all of mankind would have come from Adam and Eve keeping the commandments.
Adam and Eve’s choice was part of God's plan, but it doesn’t mean that sin is good or necessary for happiness. The Fall was a transgression (not the same as sin) that allowed humanity to enter mortality, gain knowledge, and have the opportunity for redemption through Jesus Christ. The Bible supports this idea in Romans 5:12-19, where Paul explains that through Adam's transgression, sin and death entered the world, but through Christ, we are redeemed and can receive eternal life.
Regarding your question, Adam and Eve couldn’t keep both commandments because multiplying and replenishing the earth required them to leave their state of innocence. If they hadn't partaken of the fruit, humanity wouldn't have progressed, and God's plan for us to experience life, make choices, and seek eternal joy through Christ would not have been fulfilled (see 1 Corinthians 15:22). The scripture in 2 Nephi 2:25 isn't promoting sin but rather teaching that God’s plan for happiness comes through Christ’s Atonement, not through sin itself.