How You Can Be Gay and Believe in God?! | S3 E2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- This week we delve deep into the complex issues surrounding being part of the LGBTQ+ community and religion. If you're struggling, consider therapy with betterhelp.com... for 10% off of your first month #paidpartner
Undivided by Vicky Beeching: amzn.to/47TOfB1
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Hi I’m gay, married to my husband and very welcome and active in the Methodist church here in Driffield - I was welcomed with open arms 😊
I am gay and a believer in God and Christ. I don't particularly go to church but I do pray and listen to worship music all the time. My faith has never faltered throughout my journey. This was a good conversation.
Same I'm gay and Christian,thought I was the only one
I am also gay and Christian!! I attend a United Church Of Christ church, which is a denomination that is open and affirming of LGBTQ individuals. My Pastor is actually gay, which is great.
Gay Christians are hypocrites, but then, most religious folks are.
Your God wants you dead.
Yes! There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay as long as you restrain from actualizing the sinful fleshly desires! :)
Great topic, very close to my heart. Born and raised (and still am) a practicing Catholic, and I struggled for years with the stigma that being gay was a sin. Ultimately I took the path of focusing on the things about church that are important to me, such as the community aspect, the connectedness, and in my opinion, the knowledge that God loves me for who I am, not for my sexuality. Being a kind, decent and accepting person is what God wants me to be. There are numerous examples in the Bible of Jesus doing exactly those same things, and so deep down I know that’s where my focus should be. Period, end of story. And by having the presence of God in my life, it helps me to keep that focus each and every day. 🙏 Thanks so much for covering the topic, would love hearing from Vicky if she’s able to in the future. ❤
I think the thing that was missed out of the discussion here is that, an issue that can arise with being gay and religious is that sometimes there is actually a self acceptance issue. Even if your family are really supportive and accepting. when your religion views your sexuality as a sin, and you belive and love your religion but at the same time you're gay and that's who you are biologicaly so this inner conflict builds up within ones self and it can be difficult to make peace with ones self. If that makes sense.
And they use that as a reason why gays can't have productive and meaningful life. I hate bigots. The psychological torture they give people is hell.
This is true, you have to accept yourself and come to peace with yourself. God still loves all of us regardless of our sexuality.
I’m gay and Episcopal/ Church of England. I love our church because it is welcoming and excepting!
God is by our side 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈✝️✝️✝️
Amen.
I think we are brainwashed from the time we are born to believe what our parents teach us about religion......it would be much harder to get a 30-year-old with no religion to all of a sudden start believing. JMO
Believe me. You can deconstruct from religious brain washing. The fact that I'm gay and against rape culture makes me at peace knowing that the Catholic Church have hidden rape cases in their church. Now I don't feel shame and guilt because what moral authority do they even have at this point. There are also a lot of resources online about the great lie that is the Bible cult. It's a drug for peoples fears and fear for god they call love and relationship.
This helped me so much! I'm a Christian and gay .... I also joined a community church that was considered family in my view...after years of attending my pastor ( leader) spoke about how gays are going to hell - shocked, I pulled him aside and revealed that I was gay. He requested a talk after the service and asked me the one and only question - were you molested as a child. I asked him if that was all he can come up with...he said there's no other explanation for it. Of course I no longer attend...instead I chose to have my own relationship with God - at home.
They used to blame it on overbearing mothers. Anita Bryant said gays were "recruiting" boys. Ignorant people need a scapegoat or something to put the blame on, rather than just accepting nature's vagaries.
I do hope your are able to read your Bible at home and growing. I personally had similar interactions with pastors. Now I get a one on one with the pastor and first ask them how one gets to Heaven. There are many, I found out, who are pastors who do not believe in Jesus. Then next I bring up that I am gay. Some of the pastors I have interviewed literally don't understand gay people (LGBTQIA). Some took time to listen to the little I know and found out myself. I separate being gay from behavior. The behaviors most point to have nothing to do with being gay and the same behaviors they don't like are in the heterosex groups too.
I’m a strong Christian and gay and found this to be a helpful conversation for those who may need it. Good on you for taking on such a potentially problematic topic.
I grew up in a metaphysical family and there was a focus on communion with the Divine through meditation and cultivating a personal spiritual relationship vs. church attendance or dictums. When I came out to my Mom, I reminded her that we believed that the soul was neither male nor female, so if I had an attraction to a soul incarnated in a male body what difference did it make. What I find interesting is that if you read the quotes of Jesus's words in the New Testament, he says nothing against same-sex relationships. Rather, he advises his followers to love one another and judge not, lest ye be judged. This is also true about Krishna in Hinduism, and Buddha in Buddhism. Many people I know identify as "spiritual" vs. "religious" and practice the golden rule of treating others as you would want to be treated yourself. It's a challenging world, so the more we can help and celebrate the creative uniqueness of one another the better. Thanks for the positive discussion. ;o)
gay men have thick skin. Used to controversy. Fought for rights. Fought for marriage and now fight for beliefs .love conquers all
Your relationship with God is with God. The only one who you will judged by is God. I'm not Gay but stopped going to church because of so much hypocrisy. I missed the fellowship of other Christians but just felt deflated especially when I got divorced from an abusive relationship. I have recently started going to a new church that accepts everyone as they are and it is so refreshing. If you feel uncomfortable at a church, for whatever reason, then it's not the right place for you. x
Really loved this conversation…. Wow what a great thing you guys are doing with this Podcast
What a great video and a great topic to cover. As a mature gay man, I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. (Many years ago and those nuns were tough!) Do I still practice my religion by going to church? No I do not. The Catholic religion has changed a lot since my upbringing. Now I prefer to have a daily one on one with God through my prayers. I was taught that God is everywhere and not just in a building. My faith and my personal relationship with God is what gets me through each and everyday. I'm grateful to have that and that is my belief. You really hit upon a good topic and yes, I've learned the hard way that you don't discuss religion or politics at the dinner table (or with a close friend that I lost his friendship of over 20 years. Well done guys....I thoroughly enjoyed this one. Have a Happy and Healthy week!
God bless you Gays 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈✝️✝️✝️
I’ve spent the last 7 years serving and building a kids ministry in an evangelical church! I’ve recently been removed because I’m gay, so I’ve been trying to reconstruct. I loved what you said, because I’ve recently come to the same realization. Like I’ve been wrestling with that question of how do I be Gay and Christian? Then it hit me one night, like neither of those things are in essence a verb!! There are verbs that go along with it of course, but like they are attributes to my personality. I already am Christian and I already am gay. I do believe Jesus died for us and I am attracted to men. The fact that anyone can say it can’t exist is just blind because hi, where right here.
I appreciate you being open on the topic, I live in an area where I feel too gay to fit with the Christian’s and to Christian to fit with the gays. 😅 so it’s great to see other men model it! Super encouraging!
Just want to say how much I love this. You two are fantastic. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I consider myself a very devout Christian, but simultaneously believe that The Bible is a bunch of mostly "cobbled together" scriptures written by MEN, not God....extremely primitive men at that, who had virtually NO concept of science, let alone "sexual orientation", and who very clearly had no problem whatsoever with slavery, genocide, stoning people to death, women being treated as the property of their fathers and husbands, and bashing the heads of your enemy's babies against rocks. So, what the old cultural laws said about homosexuality never bothered me in the slightest (especially considering that Christ Himself went against those on a number of occasions), and as far as Paul's OPINION regarding the issue, I always remind people that Paul also taught that EVERYBODY who could possibly do so should strive to remain celibate as he did (and also said that women should remain silent and "look to their husbands for guidance", and that men with long hair were a "disgrace"). I also remind them that in four Gospels, Christ says nothing against lgbtq people, but mandates that one of our priorities is to care and advocate for the poor, the sick, and the marginalized.....something conservative christians almost NEVER talk about, while making hundreds and hundreds of videos and sermons about the "evils of homosexuality" every year.
Your mention of Vicky Beeching reminded me of Trey Pearson, who was also big in the Christian music scene but later came out as gay. He's now married to a man, and he runs a supportive LGBTQ group on Facebook.
Saludos desde Chiapas, México. I just started watching your podcasts about a month ago, and I love it. Your topics are timely and inspiring. Thank you both for starting this podcast. ❤
I felt so betrayed by who I thought was a friend in college, only to learn she was trying to convert me to Christianity and was against homosexuality . I’ve never really gotten that past that and it soured me on all aspects of the religion.
That is one person from a thousand who will accept you for who you are. We all have encountered people who have alterior motives and are not true friends. I know it hurts but find people who accept you for who you are x
You don't actually need religion esp. the abrahamic religions to have a magical, fruitful experience of life.
@@roderickshaka3626 agree 💯. I’m pretty logical and religion just doesn’t compute for me. I think the big religions are ways to control and oppress people.
I am in York. I was raised Catholic but left that church for several reasons. I now attend an inclusive church which is part of the Anglican Communion
That sounds so lovely, we need more inclusive churches!
first of all, thank you both for being such 'every day' sort of gay role models :) I'm a 21 year old gay man who was raised intensely catholic in the US all my life (like for reference my older brother almost became a priest) and I've always felt a sort of gap or chasm between the faith of my family and myself due to my homosexuality (when i was younger i used to have panic attacks in church cuz i thought god would smite me for being a sodomite in his house (even tho i was literally still a child)) and i realize there isn't a clear answer any of us can come to (short of god pulling up and spilling some tea) but hearing Joel speak about his experience is just nice, so thank you from the bottom of my heart. Also, not trying to push satanism on people, but i think the first two seasons of the chilling adventures of sabrina deconstructs and satirizes a lot of aspects of christianity in a very intelligent and detailed way which sort of healed some sort of religious trauma for me (especially cuz people always say homosexuals are children of satan, so i was like... why not).
Speaking as an openly gay, married, ordained Christian minister... I haven't read the entire Bible either. **gasp!** **pearl clutching** My relationship with God, the Divine, the "magical sky fairy," whatever you call Him/Her/Them is a journey and an exploration. It is a relationship.
ALSO a gay Christian, if you want an eye opening experience please invest an hour and the cost of a pay for view “Documentary 1946” this explained how the Homosexual label found its way into the Bible. Unbelievable … Im pretty sure you’ll be blessed
Interesting. I must admit l chuckled at "honorary homo" I'm a Greek Orthodox, straight woman from America. My parents sent me to several churches as an adolescent to make up my own mind, however I took my families religion as my own. I do not agree with everything it puts forth, but it did impart a sense of me never questioning a higher power. I feel that the more cultures with which you become familiar you see more similarities in beliefs. No one group owns Religion. I have come to the place where l think Belief and Religion are two entirely different things.
Beautiful topic and conversation ❤
I do agree that there are religious people out there who are more accepting than we think but I’ve felt better and accepted my queerness with atheism and rationalism.
It is irrational to assume that all definitions of god are irrational.
@elijahmarie77444 I hear you.
🦄It's irrational to assume that all definitions of unicorns are irrational.
(I.e. shift the Overton window & goal posts as much as you can, retro-fit, revise, redefine, wash, rinse, repeat)
@elijahmarie77444none of that is true. Mathew 19:12 talks about eunuchs. Eunuchs ≠ same sex attracted people or trans people.
All gods are man made constructions.
jesus wasn't trans.
You don't need this religion to validate your sexuality or gender identity.
@@roderickshaka3626 The idea that God is natural rather than supernatural is a very old idea. That people are unfamiliar with it is more a matter of ignorance than it is of it falling outside the Overton window.
If there is a similar problem with unicorns, could you connect the dots for me? I'm not seeing any connection.
I believe God makes every single person just exactly how they are on purpose. It's the personal choices you make and the influence you allow others to have on you that make the difference between happiness and unhappiness.
Not gay but truly enjoy your videos! They are about human beings trying to live their best lives the best they can. They are thoughtful and genuine discussions about the human condition. Good job y’all!
Thank you! We are so glad you are enjoying the podcast 💛
I find being Atheist is sort of like a comfort to me. I absolutely hate organized religion. If I encounter a person who insists on my leaving it to God as they say, I love telling that organized religious person there is absolutely no God. I get a slight satisfaction that doesn’t make me feel good. But occasionally, I get that super religious person throwing their religion on me, so I throw back Atheism. Just be you, and we will never have a problem, religious or not. Just stop trying to “save” me.
I loved this being a gay Christian and being active in my church. Also im from the states and wouldnt mind coming to the UK for a live taping. I've always wanted to visit anyway and this would be the perfect reason.
@Tell3.grramme_happyhealthyhomo I would love to!
Joel, you have every right to feel as you feel and have an important relationship with God. However, your stories make it clear that it's not really true that your religious sect is accepting of you as a person.
I never felt that I was expected to grow up and have children and marriage. My aunt Sue once said to me that sometimes the worst thing that you can do it get married have kids, and get stuck with the same person. Love comes and goes, but you can have your freedom forever. She was quite philosophical.
Hello Joel and Keegan.
Thank you very much for this episode as it’s opened up my understanding of how one can be gay and Christian in layman’s terms.
I’m Asian, live in Australia and never in my life had I thought I’d be emotionally affected by the dogma and influence of Christianity.
I was with this guy for a while and he was brought up very similar to yours Joel. His coming out wasn’t as successful (let’s assume yours went well ).
He broke up with me and I went through the process of grieving etc etc and I personally think other than the fact that he wasn’t that into me there was also a lot to do with him yet to reconcile with his beliefs and him being gay. I believe he’s on the journey to becoming freer etc and I hope this will happen for him. He wasn’t able to really dissect what was on his mind but I believe he tried to explain as best as he could but left me confused.
In summary I find it interesting how influential your belief can shape you as a person and how much one has to really listen to themselves, talk to trusted people, find your own answer/path in life before becoming a happy person.
It’s great you can go in details about it all Joel as it gives me a lot of insight and the fact you didn’t shy away from talking about how everything of the church made you feel shows you’re really (or mostly) out of the woods and comfortable being who you are.
Keep up with the good work!!
Chris
Jesus/God never said Homosexuals aren't welcome. Man said that. God loves you and he has never left. 🏳️🌈
I'm a 67 year old straight man who identifies as "religious". Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you." That's all I need to know.
Good vlog! Appreciate your openness and honesty.
Thank you guys for doing what you do. Testimony✅️: On a flight to Capetown SA yesterday, I was lead to share your channel and work with a young gay man. It was during a general conversation about TH-cam and Podcast buy it was enough to lead him to pull me aside and share a story of real and current crisis. I don't know if I was able help but just ease dropping on this channel made me believe, in that moment, that I could be of support. We parted ways after a 15 hr flight but he remains on my heart and in my prayers. Keep up the good works.
Thank you so much Stephanie. What an amazing experience that was - I'm sure you really helped - you have a wonderful, understanding personality and you're brilliant at encouraging people! Thanks for recommending us, that's very kind too!
Great video as usual 😊 City wise, you mentioned my city, Leicester. It will be great to see you in the East Midlands. 🌈 ❤️
This is an interesting video because I first lost my (Muslim) faith when I knew I was gay and it was prenatal and hardwired.
I reasoned that it didn't make sense for god to forbid being gay and then create people who are gay. Events since have only strengthened my atheism. For me it was a very logical, straightforward process.
Luckily, my family was not excessively religious to begin with.
@Tell3.grramme_happyhealthyhomo
Thank you for your response.
I would be happy to have a discussion on the subject.
Hi Joel, I think your claim that "homosexuality first appeared in the Bible in 1946" refers to the Revised Standard Version, in which this was the English word used to translate "arsenokoitai" (and was replaced by "sexual perverts" in the 1971 version). There does appear to be genuine disagreement between scholars as to how the word should be translated. I think the general point is more important: the English versions of the Bible are translations from ancient works in a number of languages, and so they cannot be interpreted with any certainty. It's not just about homosexuality, it's about _everything_. To take another example, Proverbs 23:13 (King James version) urges parents to beat their children with a rod, but some scholars argue that this is in fact an instruction to religious leaders to teach their congregation in an organized ("disciplined") way. I'm sure there are many other examples. (I'm an atheist but I had many interesting discussions with a colleague who was a former Catholic priest and was fluent in Latin, Greek and Aramaic.)
People, often those who identify with an organized religion, think those of us who don't believe in organized relgions, don't believe in God. This is untrue in many cases.
These are good to watch, "Fish Out of Water", "Letting Go of God", and "Curiosity, Did God Create the Universe?" Much to learn from all three. Fish Out of Water is more related to the title of the video/episode.
Another positive informative video! Been struggling for awhile now how to express my love for my best friend in fear of it might damage what we have!
While some fundamentalist churches will not accept gay members and are opposed to same-sex marriage or the ordination of gay people to ministry, there are many who do. My own church is very accepting of homosexuality in all areas of church life. We have gay and transgender ministers. We are the 3rd biggest church in Australia.
Love the conversation
Sir Roger Casement, Irish Patriot and gay man, who supported the struggle for Irish freedom by bringing arms on the Asgard from Germany at Howth before the Easter Rising of 1916 - he was executed at the Tower of London and his body was put into quicklime, but the Irish patriot movement did not want to be associated with him because he was gay 🇮🇪☘️🇮🇪❤️
I do not get it. I grew up Catholic, went to Sunday school church on Saturday, and even Korean church after Sunday school. I never felt these bad things about being gay and Christian at all. I stopped believing in Christian God because i have a logic & science mind. I do believe their might be something but there is no way humans can understand or have any kind of comprehension of what that God(s) thinks is wrong and right. I'm 38, so very old in the gay community and never had this kind of issue that many gays seem to face. What I find funny is that all these negatives that Gays seem to say they have, they do and say to me more than my str8 and religious friends and family. Iv gotten more acceptance from them than other gays.
I dont belong to a church but I join few online services and listen to recorded messages and worship songs to stay connected with my faith. People have what gives them strength anf hope, mine is faith in God. I am an Evangelical.
Calgary, AB, Canada. I am gay and Christian. However, I grew up a strict Roman Catholic, but I gave that up when I came out. I tried different denominations until I found an accepting congregation.
Pentecostal in the house! 💪😎
So awesome you mentioned Kwa zulu Natal...being gay from the I'm proud. I live in Oxfordshire now...near the city of Oxford. Do.your show here I'd say...love Didi
Interesting historical fact. The version of the Bible which added the word "homosexual" removed the word on the next update for more proper word for the original text in Greek. However, in between these 2 events, the other translators did a copy and paste without verification of the RSV text. Revised Standard Version. The NRSV... New Revised Standard Version does not have the word "homosexual" in it.
The NRSV (or the latest version, the “updated edition,” NRSVue) still doesn’t have a great translation there. The clobber section now reads, “wrongdoers… male prostitutes (note: meaning of Greek uncertain), men who engage in illicit sex (note: meaning of Greek uncertain, ‘sodomites’ in the NRSV)…” The Greek words there are “malakoi” and “arsenokoitai.”
Side note: The bigoted translations did not merely copy and paste. The hateful ESV goes the “hate the sin, love the sinner” route by splitting off the behavior from the identity, translating those words, “men who practice homosexuality (note: The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts).” The similarly hateful NIV now translates that section, “men who have sex with men (note: The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.).” Modern evangelicals say it’s fine to be gay, as long as you don’t act on it. Spoiler alert: Sexuality does not work like that. For one thing, bottoming is not passive. No wonder these bigoted men are not satisfying their women.
Regardless, it’s implausible to argue that the Bible in its original form doesn’t condemn some sort of male-male sex act. “Malakoi” might not-it’s derived from an ancient Indo-European word meaning “soft.” As far as I’m concerned, the author Paul was condemning rich people who have become “soft” by collecting wealth and keeping it for themselves. (Aristotle, Josephus, etc., would probably agree.) However, “arsenokoitai” comes from words meaning “male” and “bed.” Similarly, Leviticus 18:22 is translated, “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
There’s some wiggle room for interpretation. Contrary to the hate-mongers responsible for the ESV, the original Greek and Hebrew were not referring to consensual gay relationships. What exactly they *were* referring to, that’s unknown, but gay fundamentalists use that wiggle room to argue that the Bible is only condemning sex with teenage boys (eromenos) or temple cult priests, such as Matthew Vines in the book, “God and the Gay Christian.”
The idea of always thinking about others kept me in a miserable 35 year marriage.
Great topic. I am gay and Christian. I have LGBT friends that are religious and some that are not.
One question what was the brand of the magnesium spray?
Nearest city is Bangor North Wales. You guys are great 👍
My main thing is one can be spiritual without being religious. We have been socially conditioned to believe that organized religion has a monopoly on access to "God", which is false but that just gives them power over us.
Very balanced, thanks.
City wise, I'm half way between Aberdeen and Inverness in Scotland, just outside of a "city" (depending who you ask) called Elgin.
You'd better believe it.
💥 ✝️ 💥
🥰💯
As I understand it Evangelical Christians follow the old testament more. As a straight lapsed Catholic my take is love who you want to love. I was very lucky to be brought up by very open minded parents so I hope i come across as open minded even though I still believe in God.
In Chester
Have I missed something somewhere? Have you guys taken a break from this channel? I haven’t seen a long form podcast in over a month? Maybe I missed it in a video somewhere.
We’ll be back soon!!
40:30 I only know a bit of Greek, but that sounds like it could be a very _rude_ word. I've got to go look this up myself, now; very old, very rude words are always a fun thing to discover.
Wait really 😂😳 let us know!
@@happyhealthyhomo ...Augh. Well, after some reading, I can say for certain that it... is Biblical Greek. All my dictionaries have a nice big 'ecclesiastical' tag on their definitions of the word and anything related.
And Biblical Greek is a variant of Koine Greek that was written by bilingual Greek-Aramaic speakers, who sometimes used words in unusual ways. As best I can tell, the literal translation is 'adult-bed(/sex)-ing'; the 'adult' here was the part I thought could be rude, since it resembles a few roots in related languages that can mean anything from 'person of stature' to 'handsome' to 'horse' to 'bunghole' (separate roots, but Koine Greek had lost the sounds that distinguish them). If I knew what passage it was specifically, I could look it up in parallel texts to see what people translated it as, but - people have poured probably millions of hours of textual criticism into this stuff, so 'perversions' is probably as close as I can manage without starting a masters'. Sorry about that; sometimes, words are much easier to pin down than this.
London here. 💜
I'm spiritual, I guess. I have a belief, but don't go to church.
Anyway, I find it sad that there are those, in order to feel "strength" in their faith, they have to belittle others.
Rather narcasisitic perspective.
If there is indeed a God, I personally doubt he cares or concers himself with our sexual orintation.
Seems to me there are far bigger problems in the world and cosmos than whom I love.
And if your delusional in thinking that stopping me from loving another man is going to magically solve any of the worlds problems.
You have some serious self-refecting to do.
Sorry you feel as you do about organized religion. Frankly, churches vary so much and a plus in liturgical churches is one can be as private as one wants in a community setting. But…de gustibus. Benedicite.
How about coming to Poole in beautiful Dorset?
I am spiritual. I believe there's one god, creator of all energies. everything made under god is of god's will. we are told not to worship false idols, only pray and love the one god. I take that to heart as it is stated as an absolute. so religion is off the table for me, as it is an indoctrination made as deception and control by man, which is allowed by god to test your will to follow god or something else. which would recirculate to false idol or idealism. I try to live as peaceful and with love as possible, which I believe is the ultimate test put In front of man.
I think that if you have questions about religion, being gay will pretty much seal the deal. Also people who come from very right wing religions almost have to for their own sanity and well-being.
Am from Worcester
Hi Guys. I live in Carlisle, Cumbria
I like the topic the you tock I love
I'm gay and a Mormon in uk 😊
That's interesting! I honestly didn't know Mormonism was a thing in the UK, I just assumed it was one of the many denominations in America
Better help in my area didn't have a gay therapist of color and wanted to pair me with a white woman. Not acceptable.
#loveislove♥️🏳️🌈
Do you have a PhD in social work?🍇💗
Oh I believe in God. I just think he’s an utter vicious “sounds like front”
Not trying to start beef but I think something here needs correcting - you don't have to have faith in the big bang or evolution to be an atheist, this is a fallacious line of thinking which many in Christian echo chambers follow, as if being Christian is somehow the default state. The great thing about being an atheist is that you're not under any obligation to have an explanation for our existence. Sorry Joel but 'you've got faith in the big bang theory' isn't some kind of gotcha, we're not obliged to provide evidence to support our lack of belief in your god, just like you're not obliged to provide a reason or evidence as to why you don't follow Hinduism or Zoroastrianism, for example. The burden of proof lies with whoever is making a positive claim. Atheists do not make a positive claim. I don't 'believe in' the big bang theory, I just accept that it is currently the best working explanation for the start of our universe, and that is sufficient for the role of the theory. The theory makes no claim to replace a deity as the 'uncaused cause'. As humans we can pursue those answers if we want, but we're not obliged to have the answers in order to refute someone claiming a deity created everything. Faith doesn't enter the equation at any point in this discussion.
I love the way you explained this, as an atheist myself. However, I feel like some people do believe in the big bang theory as fact, rather than saying it's likely that it happened. Is there not some element of faith there? I think when people say that the big bang MUST have happened rather than saying it's the best explanation of our universe so far, but may or may not be true, is where it crosses the line into faith.
@@adriancole745 I'd say that's because *some* people lack the education to distinguish 'best working theory' from 'actually happened'. What I object to is Joel using it as some kind of gotcha to say 'we're all equally irrational' when it's not the case. I don't think everyone's obliged to have a good answer to questions about religion because those questions are only of existential importance to religious people.
Some people are delusional 😅
Atheist here. Faith in absolutely nothing. Sad, I know. I live the sad everyday. 😢
It's you limiting yourself with the "absolutely nothing", I am an atheist too but the universe is still mind-blowing or magical, and it doesn't need a deity to be that.
Oh no, guys..."something from nothing?" Srsly? You're so intelligent. How can you fall for this bunkum? It's only Christian apologists who parrot this nonsensical strawman. You really ought to know there isn't a single credible scientist who believes "something came from nothing." The singularity which produced our universe was definitely NOT nothing.
wait, did they seriously say this 🤦🏾♂️, i couldn't complete the video earlier, I guess i am going to have to complete it now.
There’s confusion about what faith means. Dr. Bradley Onishi of the University of San Francisco (co-host of @straightwhiteamericanjesus) has been making a good point, that Religious Fundamentalism replaces actual faith with certainty. Fundamentalism teaches thought-stopping techniques, that you don’t need to know science because you already have the truth of the Bible. It doesn’t matter how smart you are, if you have thought-stopping then you stop thinking. Since Dr. Onishi has abandoned fundamentalism, he feels like he now has the freedom to exercise faith.
Religious Fundamentalists say that atheism doesn’t provide absolute certainty. That is true. We don’t believe with absolute certainty. Scientists do not believe in the Big Bang because the high priests of science said this was the only way the universe could exist without a Creator-actually, early atheist scientists would have preferred for the universe to have no beginning and no end. But then Fundamentalists claim that this lack of certainty is why atheism doesn’t work and belief in their God is necessary. This is false. We may not be absolutely certain in our cosmology, but we don’t need to replace uncertainty in the universe with certainty in a false God.
The Big Bang does not come from faith. The Big Bang comes from applying the laws of physics to observations of the universe. The Big Bang theory explains additional phenomena, such as the Cosmic Microwave Background. If nobody believed in the Big Bang, then scientists could derive it again by looking up at the stars. So, we are pretty certain in the Big Bang. However, if we manage to find another explanation that makes more sense with the data that we have, then we would abandon the Big Bang theory.
I think that they were just saying that there is still some element of faith that it happened, there's no way of going back in time to know if there was really a big bang. They did oversimplify it, but I don't really think it's that big a deal, as someone who believes in the big bang myself. Also if you say the singularity was NOT nothing, then where did that come from? It's a recursive question that always leads to "something must have came from nothing, and we don't know how."
@@adriancole745 "something must have came from nothing, and we don't know how." That's not necessarily so. Put in terms of the religious paradigm, if a deity can be infinite then so can be the stuff of existence. Meanwhile, I don't have "faith" the big bang happened. I trust the mathematics.
Personally I prefer Gnosticism.
closest city to me,,, WAKEFIELD
Catholics are the original Christian. All other denominations came after them. But think of it as this All Catholics are Christian, BUT not all Christian are Catholics.
I’m a strong Christian and gay and found this to be a helpful conversation for those who may need it. Good on you for taking on such a potentially problematic topic.