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I want a t-shirt that says "Sometimes it's nicer to have a coffee with someone than send them a picture of your a-hole". Best phrase ever. Also, suggestion on the microphones... if you look at the way the microphones were placed when you were in the studio, copy that. You've purchased directional microphones, which are the same style the studio had. They're designed for the blunt-end to be aimed directly at your face, ideally around chin-level. That will eliminate the highs and lows in volume while you're speaking. Keep up the great work, I LOVE the channel! ❤
Great topic, guys. Why are we surprised about hypersexualization in the gay community? For centuries, and *still now* in many parts of the world, that has been the only option gay men had. Society has part of the culpability for this. It was too difficult and even dangerous for them to build platonic and romantic relationships with each other. Thankfully, this is starting to change slowly -- we now have more examples of gay men in relationships, as shown in social and mainstream media.
I wantto chime in and say that no matter gay, straight, etc, society as a whole is over sexualizing everything. As a parent, I have had to fight social media's ideals, on behalf of both my male and female teens. My teens compare themselves to those photos, and their confidence is destroyed when they don't feel they can meet those ideals. It is a huge problem in families now trying to raise healthy, happy, confident humans.
Agreed, but the gay communities dial is set on max compared to the straights. I've been to straight and gay clubs . You walk into almost any gay establishment and you are greeted by half naked men and occasionally, pornography on screens. Go go dancers push the limits and in some cases, partake in sexual acts for all to see. The gays defend this as "we don't live straight heteronormative lives," but being overtly sexual has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. Fetishes don't definite me.
My gay social life , and my best gay friends, have come exclusively from social situations where there happens to be lots of gay people, in my case, choirs. The best way to make friends of any stripe is to be with people whose interests are like yours. I'm absolutely no good at hookups. There must be an emotional component to the relationship.
I never understood hook ups when I first came out. A guy came over who had been recommended by a mutual friend. He got impatient after I started conversation, and then he asked in a semi-hostile tone: so what are you into? I didn't realize that he was only there for one thing. I had to get rid of him. I didn't know him from a bar of soap.
Lots of great points. For those who sexualize themselves for money, I apply the same rule as I do to any content creator. This is a persona, I don't know them, I don't know who they really are, and this is them playing a role. It helps me to create a barrier and maintain a healthy distance between fantasy and reality. Just because you sell yourself as an object of desire doesn't mean you are an object. Regarding oversexualization and body image in the gay community. This is 100% something I'm struggling with. I've gotten better by focusing on working out, self-improving, and managing my depression and body dysmorphyia. But, as a germaphobe who falls within the demi/ace spectrum, I have a massive fear of dating because I'm not sexual, I'm not hot, I'm not muscular, I'm average below the belt. Obviously, there is so much more to dating than the "physical," but the only thing I've known about the gay community is sex. If it wasn't for gay couple vlogers, like yourselves, I honestly would still think that. But, I'm working past that. I've realized I've been so triggered because of my inaccurate ideas about gay men, body image, and dating itself. But, back to your point, oversexulization within the gay community or with people in general creates an inaccurate image and toxic environment. It has created an inaccurate image of people and makes us put value on looks over personality. Sex first, their mind second. As you said, not everyone thinks like this. But, we are made to believe the majority does. So, as a result, if you don't check off all the boxes of "sex appeal," why bother. Last, I truly don't understand the need to know such intimate knowledge of someone's life. Put simply, unless you're dating or planning to hook up with them, you don't need to know. Another great show. Thanks for your knowledge and insight.
Thank you for saying all this. It's all so important and I appreciate you for being so honest. I can relate to a lot of this and I think it helps others to hear language and personal experiences put on it. Great points.
Absolutely great topic guys! Unfortunately, in today's world, at least here in the US, I don't know about the UK, everyone is obsessed with sexualizing anyone who is different. Especially gay men or the LGBT + community. Joel, you brought up a valid point about ONLY fans, (Patreon, etc). I think people are "expecting" to see or hear things from creators that aren't being published regularly, and have a "right " to like some special club, like you owe it to them, because they're paying for a subscription. What it comes down to is, the integrity and morality of who we are as gay people, seems to be dictated rather than people getting to personally knowing us for who we are, and making snap judgements. The stereotypes though, haven't helped (although, sometimes, funny, they have done harm in the eyes of regularly society).
Over sexualization of yourself or others leads to depression because it just feeds the body. Building a meaningful and reliable friendship with someone feeds the soul.
A conversation we must continue to have. As someone who came out around 50 I was so stressed about how I looked and was I in shape enough. You know , Joey your right find your tribe in the community , yes we all want to be attractive and we will always be self critical but I firmly believe the sex gets way better when you have built a emotional connection . A little romance goes a long way. ❤
Favorite moment, at the end Joel slips in a "no fomo homo" suggestion to go visit their new OF page, catching Keegan off guard and getting a hilarious reaction. :)
As someone who has had his life's fill of cruising, body types, superficiality, this and that, I really think that I need to broaden my horizons. I love to ponder the stars though my telescopes, I like to hike, identify trees, plants. I also like to practice yoga, build scale models of buildings to create towns and cities.... Really, I have so many interests other than just the physical carcass. I wish that there were clubs, groups, etc., which were created more or less around some of these areas, with the gay male twist. There once was a hiking club in Boston. I joined and went on one hike, but on one would talk, not just to me, but to each other. Honestly, you'd be better off walking with mannequins. The whole thing became so awkward and postured that, after about an hour that I just took a right turn when the pack went left. I never went back. Also, for instant voice communication (one can glean so much from the human voice alone) without spilling all, telephone lines can actually be pretty interesting. However, they don't seem as fun as few years ago. Hey, how about lines geared for specific interests?
I wish you guys could set up a platform for friendship, so many people would benefit from a safe and sensible place to just chat. Love your content and your responses to topics with humor ❤❤
The guy who set up the now closed Outeverywhere website was crowdfunding an app called GMEET and I heard about it the other day and when I looked in to it, the timing was terrible and I guess the pandemic scuppered it. I really hope it does happen and is successful. It could be such a positive thing. Sometimes gay guys need something outside hookup culture to help them meet new friends/socialise/enjoy their interests in a sociable way. From the Crowdfunder page: “There is still nowhere online mainly focused on enabling gay people to meet someone where the emphasis is on shared interests and building friendships - whether or not they want that to lead to something more. Also, new studies show that today's major social networks are in fact isolating and can foster loneliness and feelings of envy or inadequacy. In contrast, OUT developed and harnessed an approach that lead to far more engaging face-to-face social interaction, a more inclusive and enriching experience than today's modern social media platforms. GMEET will build on key elements of OUT's successful model of forging friendships. Jason feels there's still a place for an approach that unites and blends the online and offline worlds of LGBT+ people and their friends and which is focused more on fostering friendships and bringing people with shared interests together; one that is a much smaller and tighter knit community of people than major "generic" social networks like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and so on.”
You guys did a great job with this, but I think you're contorting yourselves around a straightforward fact: it's okay to want to have it both ways 😂 It really is okay to be honest and open about your own sexuality and to require that people engage with everything beyond that. Do not close yourself off to positive experiences just because you're trying to impress straight people or impress party gays. Also, for anyone who deplores the apps, whether it's for a hookup or friends, they really aren't getting any better. Bars really can be a better human place to make friends. And if you're in search of a hookup, you're actually much more likely to connect on a human level in a bathhouse or bar back room than you are endlessly staring at your phone. Are these perfect? Absolutely not. But just remember how awful the apps are 🥴
I think men in general like the journey of the hunt in all aspects of life and sex is one of the things that drive us as natural beings. Whether we have lots of other interests is not for us to judge. We might take care of ourselves and thats all we can control and be happy with. A diversified and balanced life is possible for all of us who care to have that.
The issue I’ve had most with an over sexualising gay community has been with being fetishised. As a very tall man I would get a lot of interest from 3 types of guys: 1) foot fetishists - generally if you’re tall, you’ll also have big feet so guys who are into feet would want to hook up with me and only be interested in my feet. I don’t find feet remotely sexy. 2) ‘size queens’ (for wont of a better term) - these would be guys who assume that because you’re tall you’ll have a massive penis and much like the above, that’s all that they are interested in, almost like if I could detach it I could just leave it with them and go home and they’d still be happy. 3) guys who want to be dominated - my height fitted their fantasy of having a night with a domineering daddy who would throw them around the bedroom and that’s not at all who or how I am but they would act as though my sole purpose was to fulfil their fantasy It made it very difficult to meet anyone who was genuinely interested in me. When using dating apps I go through phases of mentioning my height and not mentioning my height. By not mentioning it, it became an issue when meeting up in person, but by mentioning it I would only hear from the three types of guys above. The other issue was being out in bars or clubs (or any public space for that matter) my height always gets lots of attention (“Gosh, you’re tall”, “Do you play basketball?”, “What’s the weather like up there?” Etc etc) so that it would be difficult to know whether someone is striking up a conversation because they fancy me or are just fascinated by my height.
How did not mentioning your height become an issue? Almost all gay men are attracted to tall guys. I’d assume for most guys it would be a happy accident that you happen to be very tall.
@@BRAZEN_Muse it’s a common misconception. There’s a point where height switches from being admirably tall to being freakishly tall. And it shows in people’s reactions.
I had a friend who was 6"6" and he got so tired of people asking him how tall he was...I told him to tell them he was 5'18" and let them figure it out....the people who ask that tired old lame question have no idea how stupid they sound and look.
I identify with that guy at 21:00. I often went out only looking for friends, but every time that I struck up a conversation with a guy they tended to want to sleep with me, or thought that I was going to steal their partner. Or, there were guys who never treated me very well because they knew they had no chance of getting it on with me. I did have one friend, and he used to take me to parties and I remember one time the handsome host came and sat beside me and was talking to me, and he put his hand on my shoulder. My friend stood up in the middle of dinner and announced that we had to leave. So we left. I later told my friend that I had let a guy give me a special act. My friend never spoke to me a again after that. He thought that we were a couple even though we never did anything. If you are attractive in the gay community then you may not have friends but you will have predators. If you are attractive them you will be expected to put out.
Definitely sounds familiar, and sorry you had to deal with that. The best friendship experiences I’ve had, though, are where guys are comfortable saying yes - or no - to sex and having it genuinely not be weird whatever the answer is.
It’s no one’s business what someone’s sexuality is. It seems it’s all over the media where they want to know who people love and have sex with. It ain’t no one’s business! To quote Mammy from Gone With the Wind, “It ain’t futtin. It ain’t fittin.” (I enjoy your show.)
There is an excellent book called The Velvet Rage which helps in understanding why some people get stuck and don't develop. Being very sexual is a stage of development.
Keegan & HRH Prince Joel, you presented another thought-provoking and perhaps, polarizing topic of our fabulously gay community. Personally, I subscribe to the belief that many of these male social media content creators who cater to a gay audience by consistently presenting their shirtless photos all the way to full nudity are in show business, or better yet, in the business of show. No matter what they present online, it is all to a degree just fantasy - a tale created, written, produced, curated and distributed with the intention of gaining approval, “likes”, clicks, engagement, traction, relevancy, money and influence not personal connections. No matter how real, forthright, forthcoming, honest and earnest these influencers claim to be, they exist behind the curtains like a grandiose Ozian wizard only showing you the image of themselves that they want you to see. Even the OF creators who purport to show you real sex are just showing you their version of real sex through their edited, excellently lit, staged and angled product. It’s all a fantasy to me. So, I can appreciate both studio and OF porn material as forms of creative and sometimes artistic expression. I can accept the porn actors who claim to be gay-for-pay, straight, bisexual, pansexual or gay because I’m willing to buy into the fantasy they are selling for my sexual enjoyment. Conversely, what I feel there is a dearth of in content for a gay audience is what you mentioned in your review of the successfully well-crafted romantic comedy, “Red, White and Royal Blue”: intimacy. Like you I was surprised by my visceral reactions to the scenes of them simply looking at each other, kissing, having “boring?!?” missionary sex, texting/emailing daily or sharing a hammock while reading books. It’s so rare to see such intimate moments involving gay characters that I think I was stunned to see it so well done and stunned that I enjoyed it so much. Call me a carpet, if you think I’m lying, but I don’t think I’ve seen anything as intimate as the “Red, White and Royal Blue” sex scene in the past five years of my porn viewing. *****An unsolicited, unpaid movie endorsement is below.***** By the way, here’s a recommendation for a recently released gay love story on Netflix called “Nuovo Olimpo”. It’s a semi-autobiographical love story about two Italian men that spans over three decades. There is full nudity of some male and one female character, with intimate and sensual sex scenes. It is in Italian but you can change it to English subtitles, if you wish. I love watching foreign movies in their original language as long as I can get English or French subtitles. *********************** If you have read this far, I thank you for enduring my indulgence of babbling in written form.
I love your message today! It it very true. Ironically, you are both so good looking it could be distracting. However, the depth you exhibit in you conversation shows that your characters go well beyond just good looks. We need you, please keep up the good work!
It's very rare that people in a relationship continue to partake of the same amount of sex as they do in the beginning of a relationship. Even though someone may be attractive to you physically if there is nothing else of interest involved it's surprising how unattractive they can become.
How long do people need to reclaim their repressed sexuality by posting daily thirst traps on instagram? To me, it just seems like if you lead with that, you're just letting people know thats who you are and that's all you have to offer.
Now, whenever hearing the name Steve, I think of the TH-cam star on Jacob's Ridge Sanctuary. Steve very often makes an appearance. Quite entertaining and worth a look. You'll never think of the name Steve the same way again. I now love that name.
Great episode. Can't wait to check back and hear all the comments. Joel your recommendation was great, well played about your OF page. And of course yes, getting into learning or doing your hobbies. I've got so many and so little time, but now Imma take a step. Thanks again guys for touching on so many of the angles in each topic.
My younger adult life was spent in London throughout the 1980's. So absolutely no existence of mobile phones, social media, or apps. If you wanted sex, you either went cruising (which was a risky business) or you went to a gay venue, where you had to interact. By interact, I mean using one's interpersonal skills such as conversation and body language etc. Often, the initial interaction would determine whether or not you wanted to move on to having sex. Having a 'type' wasn't really a concern because the choice was limited anyway. But it was a great way of meeting a variety of people and making friends, as most of the time you were presenting your true self. Nowadays, of course, you want sex, you go on an app, present a topless pic, and locate the nearest person who's interested...you don't even have to have conversation or buy anyone a drink! But I do wonder if the younger generations are losing that ability to practise their interpersonal skills in a social setting, and therefore, missing the opportunity to present their authentic selves...which in many cases is not an oversexualised machine.
It seriously feels like every gay creator has an OF. I have had to block so many accounts on my feed. I am trying to rewait till marriage for sex (been over a year) and also trying to not jerk off as much these days, as God told me not to in Sept (I believe to practice self control and focus energy on other things). I try my best not to lust, it’s just very challenging with the algorithm and also just sooo many guys who oversexualize themselves/ the community.
20:40 Just for Casper’s video, I would say that while the criticism about how people judge appearance and don’t want to interact at all is fair, that saying that he uses Grindr as the example doesn’t make a ton of sense. Grindr is primarily for hookups. You can just tell, most of the photos are shirtless photos or ass shots. So if Casper said “hi” to someone in their dms, they probably wouldn’t be like, that’s just someone who wants to be a friend. Even if they had it in their bio. They would be like “that’s someone who either wants to hook up or act like friends but hope that it eventually leads to us hooking up.” Edit: nm they literally addressed it lol 23:00 was kind of worried they would not
20:40 Just for Casper’s video, I would say that while the criticism about how people judge appearance and don’t want to interact at all is fair, that saying that he uses Grindr as the example doesn’t make a ton of sense. Grindr is primarily for hookups. You can just tell, most of the photos are shirtless photos or ass shots. So if Casper said “hi” to someone in their dms, they probably wouldn’t be like, that’s just someone who wants to be a friend. Even if they had it in their bio. They would be like “that’s someone who either wants to hook up or act like friends but hope that it eventually leads to us hooking up.”
I can only say, that your obviously both "glowingly" healthy. Which is actually a great calling card. Thank you for your project, and attempt to "clear the air" for leading a normal gay life.
Thank you so sharing. Love this topic. I'm gay and from China. I want to make gay friends to chat to improve my English speaking. If there is someone who wants to make a gay friend. Please don't put me in a sexual relationship, I don't want a relationship or sex now. I just want to meet simple friends here.
Love this! Wish you all had HHH Facebook page (I dont have any other social media other than FB). Former gogo dancer here. Never done the OF thing. But absolutely agree with the views expressed here. Thanks so much for sharing! 🤗
Come on guys don't diss your fellow gay men that choose to live there lives differently to you. Gay men & women have had to conduct there sex lives out of sight and underground for so many years. When i first came out as gay at 15 i was shunned by family and friends. I found a group of very sexualised friends at pubs and clubs and some of them are still my friends to this day. I find the ways in which some gay men now that want a more hetrosexual lifestyle with kids etc as polar opposite to how i feel as a gay man. But live and let live and each to there own.
Bro you're ruining stuff for others tho. You can be sexual behind closed doors but no need to bring that culture to people in public, some people just want to enjoy friends with normality. Nothing wrong with acting slutty and stuff but there's a line c'mon
I’ve always seen Joel’s life as having a suppressive sex life. He’s always seemed a bit closed off. I always loved Joel. He’s a good person, few like him left. Then, he met a man, and changed some. So un-Joel. He started, for the first time, to open up about sex and even saying the word out loud. Question is, does he still pretend to be suppressed or opened up. How far will this new found revolution go? There’s a question. The things we do for love. There’s a show topic to do, permission granted. Things we do for love.
Appreciate when you give the shout out to the 'honouraries'. We are all humans and thus, have similar issues. I have learnt so much from your many discussions both for myself and to be able to share in an healthy conversation. Hugs to you both. 🎉Peace.
Love the take on this guys! As a pansexual woman, my perspective is a little different about the oversexualization of the community. It angers me that there is a double standard with straight appearing couples. People see a straight appearing couple and think oh they are in love, but same sex seeming relationships? Holding hands? How dare they show us how they have sex by holding hands in public. My thought is people jump to that thought because it’s an unknown and maybe some interest in understanding that unknown. But in general people don’t know how to handle those thoughts. Women have been oversexualized for years, and if you are a bi or pan woman? Damn too many people just want to discuss same sex relations over anything else. It’s hard in all aspects of the community I fear, but I think a good portion of it is internalized homophobia.
I don’t spend one second of my time thinking or caring about other people’s expectations of who or what I am. People are going to think whatever they like but if you allow those people to define who you are, you will never be happy within yourself. I see people in and out of the community that go on about how pride celebrations are over sexualized and children shouldn’t be exposed to them, yeah, then don’t bring them. I didn’t have the kid, you made that choice so you have to make the changes in your choices because of your decision, not me. I’m going to do and be who I want because as far as I know this is my one shot and I’m not living it for how anyone perceives me, could not give a flying fairy f’ck what anyone’s expectations are. You see so many older people in the community that turn into these prudes that look down on younger gays having their fun that I thought the older gays had worked for us to be able to have, it’s very confusing. I think everyone has to find their way of living their life and you can not allow outside influences to shape the choices you make in life. I think what threw you about watching red, white and royally blue is that they were in love, you don’t see that often in our films. You see couples but their relationships are centered around sex. There are no deep meaningful conversations, in far too many gay films it’s about sex, cheating, murder or sadness. They make very few films where we get to be in love, stay in love and make love to the man we love.
I come from a zoologist background and I will tell you that primates are slutty or as a good friend of mine from New Orleans always used to say, "sexually generous." People forget that we are animals and primates. There is only one species of primate exclusively monogamous and that would be siamangs. Human societies' whole attitude in general about sex is kind of twisted considering it is perhaps the most natural and essential life function.... which also explains why most of us are very preoccupied with it. It spreads DNA laterally and linearly. It also has the added benefit of bonding us together. All of these things are good and not shameful. That said in general we don't teach the details, the nuances, and the complications of adulthood to children for a whole slew of reasons, but despite what people want to believe children are curious and sexual to an extent because that part of themselves is developing along with everything else. Almost all kids go through a phase where they're fascinated with some part of their body and then they move on to the next part and the next part and the next part. I don't have an answer here but I just know we need to be more chilled and laid back about the whole thing because our over complication of something so very simple leads to so much therapy and maladjustment later in life and often criminal and hurtful or dangerous activity with all kinds of victims in its wake over the centuries. Anyway that's my three cents. Thanks guys for covering this topic in a balanced and measured fashion yet genuine and with humor.
See the things with studying is, you're not learning about the whole truth, you're learning about a tiny fraction of the truth in great detail. People with a sociology degree tend to think that everything is socially constructed, while people like you tend to think everything's biology and evolution. Neither is completely true. While we are, of course, animals with sexual needs, humans have an exceptional need for belonging and meaning. It's a small difference over all, but it makes a ton of difference. People can eat, sleep and f*** as much as they want to and still be completely and utterly miserable. That's ancient knowledge, and actually the reason why religions and stuff even emerged. They found out that people are happier with a certain type of restriction and dedication. Have less and make more of it. Sure, the church really went completely off the rails with it and restricted everyone into misery by suppressing basic human needs. But we're just finding out that the opposite is not ideal either.
Ever since I got sober and got gay married, I genuinely don't have a clue what queer culture even is outside of meaningless hook ups and drinking alcohol. Making friends within the community has been damn near impossible.
Great episode! Hey Joel, I know you are in the UK, but if you ever want to explore US house styles, this is a great resource - A Field Guide to American Houses by Virginia Savave McAlester.
I studied psychology and one thing that I remember was the fact of emotional equilibration. Emotions tend to balance out on the scales. If you are extremely happy, then you will tend to be very very sad too balance it out. So if the sex is great, you will pay for it later emotionally, and I don't just mean if the partner starts cheating or ups and leaves. That is the law of emotional karma.
As a gay guy I think most of us need to stop making problems for ourselves and actually just live our lives and stop obsessing about or homosexuality. That’s my opinion anyway. There’s more to us than our sexual orientation.
My boyfriend and i are looking for another gay couple for game night. Cards, conversation and drinks. But all we get is invites to naked hot tubes and such.
One's sexual interests are important but also have develop the rest of your personality. That's true 'sex' appeal. People have to be able to grow and adapt to truly healthy and happy.
i call it "homonarrative dissonance" (inspired by the concept of "ludonarrative dissonance") when someone has an almost exclusively sexual persona online and expects people to only perceive a three-dimensional, non-sexual irl persona that they actively withhold from the internet.
On these apps it's a double edged sword. If you don't put in your profile that you want "hook up" no one will inbox you or message you back. 90% of men on Grindr etc are only interested in sex. They don't want friendship or dates or relationships. It can be very frustrating when one wants to make a deeper connection.
Gay people's oversexualization comes from hiding their sexuality as a teen. If you're denying yourself something for years that other people your age don't have to, when you do accept it, all that pent up frustration makes one go a little crazy!
I really think the over-sexualization of gay men is due to a number of different things. I was single during the 90s when sex was terribly dangerous due to AIDS and all the messaging was about safe sex and avoiding penetration, whereas now it's all Only Fans, Grinder and Scruff, expectations that we will have penetrative sex on the first day, and social networks allow us and encourage us to perceive ourselves and others as highly sexual. That's not all bad as my generation were pretty much de-sexualised or dead! There is a whole generation of men aged 55 to 70 who are just not here. I worked for THT through the nineties and we were very sex positive, and that was the right thing to do under those terrible circumstances, but it could be argued that now it's gone too far. I see many gay men saying all they can get is hook-ups when what they want is relationships - love in fact, but monogamy appears to have become the exception and considered almost weird by many out men.
I am not oversexualized maybe undersexualized I had been single for ten years and I like having my own time it can get lonely I admit but doing other things makes me preoccupied is this OK or am missing something?
Im a married gay man that is more sexually conservative than my husband. I told him the only scenario I would feel comfortable doing things with other people is if it was another couple. We’re in our 30s and in the 15 years we have been together we have hooked up with another couple only once so we aren’t like hunting down couples for sex, but I wonder if this scenario is more common where one or both people in a gay relationship only feel comfortable hooking up with other couples.
People think its all open relationships and orgys and sex party's and its not there's nothing wrong with any of those things but some people prefer monogamous relationships or wait till marriage before having sex but get made fun of by other gay men like your not gay enough or like theres only one way to be gay and thats not alright if you dont want a open relationship or monogamous relationship thats ok but dont make the people that do feel bad or like there some how wrong for not being how you think a gay person should be and act love the video guys keep up the good work
I think there has to be a bit of everything. We shouldn't be over sexualized, but there should be protrayals of "real" sex between same sex couples in movies and TV shows, because a lot of people still consider gay sex, particularly between two men, to be dirty, gross, disgusting, and unsightly. That normalization does have a positive purpose. Sure, I'm not saying let's have all out pornography on TV, but portrayals of sexual encounters between same-sex people in media helps humanize us. I think it's important to have a balance. Having the, hand holding, longing stares, romantic little gay stories, but also the adult-oriented dramas which can include more explicit content.
I think sex positivity has played a major role in over-sexualization. While it was somewhat revolutionary and liberating at one point, now it's overdone and honestly exhausting. It puts unrealistic expectations on most people who don't have such a high libido and interest in sex. I wish we could transition to sex-neutrality.
I think the stereotype mainly comes from the fact that men are seen as thinking about/wanting sex more than women so for those of us in the alphabet mafia, with it being 2 men Of Course we would/should want it more.
There's no need to change things. It is what it is. It's called basic instinct for a reason. Most guys are attracted to young, good-looking, fit guys. You like what you like. It's natural that if you want to have a chance with them you need to be at least relatively hot too. Most guys are looking for a hook-up. Again, it is what it is. Even when guys are looking for friends they prefer them to be attractive. Males are very horny in general and gays are especially so. And it's so easy to find a hookup with no strings attached. So, yes, sex is a number one thing for most gays, like it or not. Hooking up is fast and easy, dating is time-consuming, stressful and deprives you of sex with other guys (and normally doesn't last long anyway). No wonder only a few people are looking for something serious. The cons of such a lifestyle is that even when you want to talk to someone and make a connection, they're not interested: they got what they wanted and prefer to just leave.
Like a troll, I am going to comment based only the title of your thumbnail. LOL I will watch the whole video at a later date, but I just don't have 45 minutes right now to devote to it. Is the gay community oversexualized? Maybe, but so what? I love looking at hot guys! Is it good for our overall mental health? Probably not. I'm sure it contributes to body dysmorphia and angst and loneliness. However, that's why we have therapists. Finally, this is a generalized stereotype in which I participate; however, I'm sure many gay men do not feel the same way. That's my two cents. Hopefully, I won't be embarrassed by anything I've written after I've actually watched the video. 😁🥰
Actually though Joel, you are with a rugby player who is a very fine specimen of manhood, so it's a bit disingenuous to make out the sexy appearance is not that important! Just sayin....
While I enjoy your podcast, I found you somewhat disingenuous this episode. A discussion about sexualization while Keegan is wearing skin-tight jeans that put his gaint calves, tree trunk quads, and other "things" front and center. I don't want a change but if you're going to talk about others... glass houses. Also let's be honest, you are two very attractive men and that's responsible for some of your TH-cam success. I'm not trying to be harsh, I really am a fan of your topics and Keegan's tree trunk quads!
I feel like this is kind of ridiculous… you can’t compare what you’ve said to guys being topless and showing lots of skin etc Keegan can’t help the size of his calves/legs. What do you expect him to do? Wear baggy jeans to cover them up, even though he doesn’t like the style of baggy clothes? I think you’re just looking for something to complain about
Again, it's not a complaint, just an observation. However, my larger point was that there is a sexual/ physical attractiveness component to their presentation.
Why is it so bad to ask a stranger if they're a top or bottom? Don't get me wrong, I think it's completely fine if you don't want to answer. But why are you making it taboo?
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I want a t-shirt that says "Sometimes it's nicer to have a coffee with someone than send them a picture of your a-hole". Best phrase ever.
Also, suggestion on the microphones... if you look at the way the microphones were placed when you were in the studio, copy that. You've purchased directional microphones, which are the same style the studio had. They're designed for the blunt-end to be aimed directly at your face, ideally around chin-level. That will eliminate the highs and lows in volume while you're speaking.
Keep up the great work, I LOVE the channel! ❤
I wondered if someone who knew this stuff could weigh in, thank you. And that t shirt is a great idea! 😂
Great topic, guys. Why are we surprised about hypersexualization in the gay community? For centuries, and *still now* in many parts of the world, that has been the only option gay men had. Society has part of the culpability for this. It was too difficult and even dangerous for them to build platonic and romantic relationships with each other. Thankfully, this is starting to change slowly -- we now have more examples of gay men in relationships, as shown in social and mainstream media.
Exactly
I wantto chime in and say that no matter gay, straight, etc, society as a whole is over sexualizing everything. As a parent, I have had to fight social media's ideals, on behalf of both my male and female teens. My teens compare themselves to those photos, and their confidence is destroyed when they don't feel they can meet those ideals. It is a huge problem in families now trying to raise healthy, happy, confident humans.
Agreed, but the gay communities dial is set on max compared to the straights. I've been to straight and gay clubs . You walk into almost any gay establishment and you are greeted by half naked men and occasionally, pornography on screens. Go go dancers push the limits and in some cases, partake in sexual acts for all to see. The gays defend this as "we don't live straight heteronormative lives," but being overtly sexual has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. Fetishes don't definite me.
My gay social life , and my best gay friends, have come exclusively from social situations where there happens to be lots of gay people, in my case, choirs. The best way to make friends of any stripe is to be with people whose interests are like yours. I'm absolutely no good at hookups. There must be an emotional component to the relationship.
I never understood hook ups when I first came out. A guy came over who had been recommended by a mutual friend. He got impatient after I started conversation, and then he asked in a semi-hostile tone: so what are you into? I didn't realize that he was only there for one thing. I had to get rid of him. I didn't know him from a bar of soap.
It's not about gay men, it's about men, period.
Women are the same
Are you a gay man?
exactly, straight men are worse in some cases
nah I trully vibe with my straight homies
Lots of great points.
For those who sexualize themselves for money, I apply the same rule as I do to any content creator. This is a persona, I don't know them, I don't know who they really are, and this is them playing a role.
It helps me to create a barrier and maintain a healthy distance between fantasy and reality.
Just because you sell yourself as an object of desire doesn't mean you are an object.
Regarding oversexualization and body image in the gay community. This is 100% something I'm struggling with.
I've gotten better by focusing on working out, self-improving, and managing my depression and body dysmorphyia. But, as a germaphobe who falls within the demi/ace spectrum, I have a massive fear of dating because I'm not sexual, I'm not hot, I'm not muscular, I'm average below the belt.
Obviously, there is so much more to dating than the "physical," but the only thing I've known about the gay community is sex.
If it wasn't for gay couple vlogers, like yourselves, I honestly would still think that.
But, I'm working past that.
I've realized I've been so triggered because of my inaccurate ideas about gay men, body image, and dating itself.
But, back to your point, oversexulization within the gay community or with people in general creates an inaccurate image and toxic environment.
It has created an inaccurate image of people and makes us put value on looks over personality.
Sex first, their mind second. As you said, not everyone thinks like this. But, we are made to believe the majority does. So, as a result, if you don't check off all the boxes of "sex appeal," why bother.
Last, I truly don't understand the need to know such intimate knowledge of someone's life.
Put simply, unless you're dating or planning to hook up with them, you don't need to know.
Another great show. Thanks for your knowledge and insight.
Thank you for saying all this. It's all so important and I appreciate you for being so honest. I can relate to a lot of this and I think it helps others to hear language and personal experiences put on it. Great points.
@@orielwiggins2225 Thank you for reading it, and I hope it helps in some way.
Absolutely great topic guys! Unfortunately, in today's world, at least here in the US, I don't know about the UK, everyone is obsessed with sexualizing anyone who is different. Especially gay men or the LGBT + community. Joel, you brought up a valid point about ONLY fans, (Patreon, etc). I think people are "expecting" to see or hear things from creators that aren't being published regularly, and have a "right " to like some special club, like you owe it to them, because they're paying for a subscription.
What it comes down to is, the integrity and morality of who we are as gay people, seems to be dictated rather than people getting to personally knowing us for who we are, and making snap judgements. The stereotypes though, haven't helped (although, sometimes, funny, they have done harm in the eyes of regularly society).
As a Gay man, I love this Gay content for Gay men ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Over sexualization of yourself or others leads to depression because it just feeds the body. Building a meaningful and reliable friendship with someone feeds the soul.
I agree with this sir! I truly believe that the opposite of these things is healthy attachment. We are all hardwired for human connection. :)
You guys are amazing, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and opinions about so many topics concerning gay life ❤
A conversation we must continue to have. As someone who came out around 50 I was so stressed about how I looked and was I in shape enough. You know , Joey your right find your tribe in the community , yes we all want to be attractive and we will always be self critical but I firmly believe the sex gets way better when you have built a emotional connection . A little romance goes a long way. ❤
Nice show guys. Appreciative of the issues you tackle and the positive contribution you make to the lgbtq+ community.
The topics chosen are so interesting. Food for thought is always appreciated.
Favorite moment, at the end Joel slips in a "no fomo homo" suggestion to go visit their new OF page, catching Keegan off guard and getting a hilarious reaction. :)
It was very well executed and had me 😂😂😂
As someone who has had his life's fill of cruising, body types, superficiality, this and that, I really think that I need to broaden my horizons. I love to ponder the stars though my telescopes, I like to hike, identify trees, plants. I also like to practice yoga, build scale models of buildings to create towns and cities.... Really, I have so many interests other than just the physical carcass.
I wish that there were clubs, groups, etc., which were created more or less around some of these areas, with the gay male twist. There once was a hiking club in Boston. I joined and went on one hike, but on one would talk, not just to me, but to each other. Honestly, you'd be better off walking with mannequins. The whole thing became so awkward and postured that, after about an hour that I just took a right turn when the pack went left. I never went back.
Also, for instant voice communication (one can glean so much from the human voice alone) without spilling all, telephone lines can actually be pretty interesting. However, they don't seem as fun as few years ago. Hey, how about lines geared for specific interests?
I wish you guys could set up a platform for friendship, so many people would benefit from a safe and sensible place to just chat. Love your content and your responses to topics with humor ❤❤
The guy who set up the now closed Outeverywhere website was crowdfunding an app called GMEET and I heard about it the other day and when I looked in to it, the timing was terrible and I guess the pandemic scuppered it. I really hope it does happen and is successful. It could be such a positive thing. Sometimes gay guys need something outside hookup culture to help them meet new friends/socialise/enjoy their interests in a sociable way.
From the Crowdfunder page:
“There is still nowhere online mainly focused on enabling gay people to meet someone where the emphasis is on shared interests and building friendships - whether or not they want that to lead to something more.
Also, new studies show that today's major social networks are in fact isolating and can foster loneliness and feelings of envy or inadequacy.
In contrast, OUT developed and harnessed an approach that lead to far more engaging face-to-face social interaction, a more inclusive and enriching experience than today's modern social media platforms. GMEET will build on key elements of OUT's successful model of forging friendships. Jason feels there's still a place for an approach that unites and blends the online and offline worlds of LGBT+ people and their friends and which is focused more on fostering friendships and bringing people with shared interests together; one that is a much smaller and tighter knit community of people than major "generic" social networks like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and so on.”
You guys did a great job with this, but I think you're contorting yourselves around a straightforward fact: it's okay to want to have it both ways 😂 It really is okay to be honest and open about your own sexuality and to require that people engage with everything beyond that. Do not close yourself off to positive experiences just because you're trying to impress straight people or impress party gays.
Also, for anyone who deplores the apps, whether it's for a hookup or friends, they really aren't getting any better. Bars really can be a better human place to make friends. And if you're in search of a hookup, you're actually much more likely to connect on a human level in a bathhouse or bar back room than you are endlessly staring at your phone. Are these perfect? Absolutely not. But just remember how awful the apps are 🥴
I think men in general like the journey of the hunt in all aspects of life and sex is one of the things that drive us as natural beings. Whether we have lots of other interests is not for us to judge. We might take care of ourselves and thats all we can control and be happy with. A diversified and balanced life is possible for all of us who care to have that.
Hi 👋🏻 the link for the newsletter/website isnt working and hasn't done for a while 😕
The issue I’ve had most with an over sexualising gay community has been with being fetishised. As a very tall man I would get a lot of interest from 3 types of guys:
1) foot fetishists - generally if you’re tall, you’ll also have big feet so guys who are into feet would want to hook up with me and only be interested in my feet. I don’t find feet remotely sexy.
2) ‘size queens’ (for wont of a better term) - these would be guys who assume that because you’re tall you’ll have a massive penis and much like the above, that’s all that they are interested in, almost like if I could detach it I could just leave it with them and go home and they’d still be happy.
3) guys who want to be dominated - my height fitted their fantasy of having a night with a domineering daddy who would throw them around the bedroom and that’s not at all who or how I am but they would act as though my sole purpose was to fulfil their fantasy
It made it very difficult to meet anyone who was genuinely interested in me. When using dating apps I go through phases of mentioning my height and not mentioning my height. By not mentioning it, it became an issue when meeting up in person, but by mentioning it I would only hear from the three types of guys above.
The other issue was being out in bars or clubs (or any public space for that matter) my height always gets lots of attention (“Gosh, you’re tall”, “Do you play basketball?”, “What’s the weather like up there?” Etc etc) so that it would be difficult to know whether someone is striking up a conversation because they fancy me or are just fascinated by my height.
How did not mentioning your height become an issue? Almost all gay men are attracted to tall guys. I’d assume for most guys it would be a happy accident that you happen to be very tall.
A great example of real experience of being so objectified and fetishized. Sad. Glad you're willing to add this to the convo.
@@BRAZEN_Muse it’s a common misconception. There’s a point where height switches from being admirably tall to being freakishly tall. And it shows in people’s reactions.
I had a friend who was 6"6" and he got so tired of people asking him how tall he was...I told him to tell them he was 5'18" and let them figure it out....the people who ask that tired old lame question have no idea how stupid they sound and look.
@@Apollo_Blaze I love this.
Love your dinamics and the way you carry your shows. Big hugs and best wishes from Panama.
Joel - I play the piano and am so jealous of your hands. Those long fingers belong on a keyboard..
I identify with that guy at 21:00. I often went out only looking for friends, but every time that I struck up a conversation with a guy they tended to want to sleep with me, or thought that I was going to steal their partner. Or, there were guys who never treated me very well because they knew they had no chance of getting it on with me. I did have one friend, and he used to take me to parties and I remember one time the handsome host came and sat beside me and was talking to me, and he put his hand on my shoulder. My friend stood up in the middle of dinner and announced that we had to leave. So we left. I later told my friend that I had let a guy give me a special act. My friend never spoke to me a again after that. He thought that we were a couple even though we never did anything. If you are attractive in the gay community then you may not have friends but you will have predators. If you are attractive them you will be expected to put out.
Yes I also found that, hopefully it won't always be that way. I found as I got older it wasn't such an issue.
Definitely sounds familiar, and sorry you had to deal with that. The best friendship experiences I’ve had, though, are where guys are comfortable saying yes - or no - to sex and having it genuinely not be weird whatever the answer is.
So sorry you had that experience, Godspeed and sending love!
It’s no one’s business what someone’s sexuality is. It seems it’s all over the media where they want to know who people love and have sex with. It ain’t no one’s business! To quote Mammy from Gone With the Wind, “It ain’t futtin. It ain’t fittin.” (I enjoy your show.)
There is an excellent book called The Velvet Rage which helps in understanding why some people get stuck and don't develop. Being very sexual is a stage of development.
I really enjoyed this podcast.
While takling a negative topic, it left me with a positiv mindset.
Keegan & HRH Prince Joel, you presented another thought-provoking and perhaps, polarizing topic of our fabulously gay community. Personally, I subscribe to the belief that many of these male social media content creators who cater to a gay audience by consistently presenting their shirtless photos all the way to full nudity are in show business, or better yet, in the business of show.
No matter what they present online, it is all to a degree just fantasy - a tale created, written, produced, curated and distributed with the intention of gaining approval, “likes”, clicks, engagement, traction, relevancy, money and influence not personal connections. No matter how real, forthright, forthcoming, honest and earnest these influencers claim to be, they exist behind the curtains like a grandiose Ozian wizard only showing you the image of themselves that they want you to see.
Even the OF creators who purport to show you real sex are just showing you their version of real sex through their edited, excellently lit, staged and angled product. It’s all a fantasy to me. So, I can appreciate both studio and OF porn material as forms of creative and sometimes artistic expression. I can accept the porn actors who claim to be gay-for-pay, straight, bisexual, pansexual or gay because I’m willing to buy into the fantasy they are selling for my sexual enjoyment.
Conversely, what I feel there is a dearth of in content for a gay audience is what you mentioned in your review of the successfully well-crafted romantic comedy, “Red, White and Royal Blue”: intimacy. Like you I was surprised by my visceral reactions to the scenes of them simply looking at each other, kissing, having “boring?!?” missionary sex, texting/emailing daily or sharing a hammock while reading books. It’s so rare to see such intimate moments involving gay characters that I think I was stunned to see it so well done and stunned that I enjoyed it so much. Call me a carpet, if you think I’m lying, but I don’t think I’ve seen anything as intimate as the “Red, White and Royal Blue” sex scene in the past five years of my porn viewing.
*****An unsolicited, unpaid movie endorsement is below.*****
By the way, here’s a recommendation for a recently released gay love story on Netflix called “Nuovo Olimpo”. It’s a semi-autobiographical love story about two Italian men that spans over three decades. There is full nudity of some male and one female character, with intimate and sensual sex scenes. It is in Italian but you can change it to English subtitles, if you wish. I love watching foreign movies in their original language as long as I can get English or French subtitles.
***********************
If you have read this far, I thank you for enduring my indulgence of babbling in written form.
I love your message today! It it very true. Ironically, you are both so good looking it could be distracting. However, the depth you exhibit in you conversation shows that your characters go well beyond just good looks. We need you, please keep up the good work!
It's very rare that people in a relationship continue to partake of the same amount of sex as they do in the beginning of a relationship. Even though someone may be attractive to you physically if there is nothing else of interest involved it's surprising how unattractive they can become.
How long do people need to reclaim their repressed sexuality by posting daily thirst traps on instagram? To me, it just seems like if you lead with that, you're just letting people know thats who you are and that's all you have to offer.
The younger gays give off the idea they only want sex so you can't blame people for thinking that
Yes u can, learn and do.better!
Now, whenever hearing the name Steve, I think of the TH-cam star on Jacob's Ridge Sanctuary. Steve very often makes an appearance. Quite entertaining and worth a look. You'll never think of the name Steve the same way again. I now love that name.
We say “my dogs are barking” in the Midwest US.😊
Great episode. Can't wait to check back and hear all the comments. Joel your recommendation was great, well played about your OF page. And of course yes, getting into learning or doing your hobbies. I've got so many and so little time, but now Imma take a step.
Thanks again guys for touching on so many of the angles in each topic.
My younger adult life was spent in London throughout the 1980's. So absolutely no existence of mobile phones, social media, or apps. If you wanted sex, you either went cruising (which was a risky business) or you went to a gay venue, where you had to interact. By interact, I mean using one's interpersonal skills such as conversation and body language etc. Often, the initial interaction would determine whether or not you wanted to move on to having sex. Having a 'type' wasn't really a concern because the choice was limited anyway. But it was a great way of meeting a variety of people and making friends, as most of the time you were presenting your true self. Nowadays, of course, you want sex, you go on an app, present a topless pic, and locate the nearest person who's interested...you don't even have to have conversation or buy anyone a drink! But I do wonder if the younger generations are losing that ability to practise their interpersonal skills in a social setting, and therefore, missing the opportunity to present their authentic selves...which in many cases is not an oversexualised machine.
For ages asking for "stats" was one of the first things people would ask for...it has always been that way. Always.
OMG. Don’t think I have laughed as hard in a long time as when Joel said “our FOMO today is our Only Fans page”. Love you guys as always!!!
It seriously feels like every gay creator has an OF. I have had to block so many accounts on my feed. I am trying to rewait till marriage for sex (been over a year) and also trying to not jerk off as much these days, as God told me not to in Sept (I believe to practice self control and focus energy on other things). I try my best not to lust, it’s just very challenging with the algorithm and also just sooo many guys who oversexualize themselves/ the community.
20:40 Just for Casper’s video, I would say that while the criticism about how people judge appearance and don’t want to interact at all is fair, that saying that he uses Grindr as the example doesn’t make a ton of sense. Grindr is primarily for hookups. You can just tell, most of the photos are shirtless photos or ass shots. So if Casper said “hi” to someone in their dms, they probably wouldn’t be like, that’s just someone who wants to be a friend. Even if they had it in their bio. They would be like “that’s someone who either wants to hook up or act like friends but hope that it eventually leads to us hooking up.”
Edit: nm they literally addressed it lol 23:00 was kind of worried they would not
20:40 Just for Casper’s video, I would say that while the criticism about how people judge appearance and don’t want to interact at all is fair, that saying that he uses Grindr as the example doesn’t make a ton of sense. Grindr is primarily for hookups. You can just tell, most of the photos are shirtless photos or ass shots. So if Casper said “hi” to someone in their dms, they probably wouldn’t be like, that’s just someone who wants to be a friend. Even if they had it in their bio. They would be like “that’s someone who either wants to hook up or act like friends but hope that it eventually leads to us hooking up.”
I can only say, that your obviously both "glowingly" healthy. Which is actually a great calling card. Thank you for your project, and attempt to "clear the air" for leading a normal gay life.
Thank you so sharing. Love this topic. I'm gay and from China. I want to make gay friends to chat to improve my English speaking. If there is someone who wants to make a gay friend. Please don't put me in a sexual relationship, I don't want a relationship or sex now. I just want to meet simple friends here.
How old are you ?
@@johncantswim 32 old.
Love this! Wish you all had HHH Facebook page (I dont have any other social media other than FB). Former gogo dancer here. Never done the OF thing. But absolutely agree with the views expressed here. Thanks so much for sharing! 🤗
Just a random gay romantic comedy recommendation that is not overly sexual. Breaking Fast.
Come on guys don't diss your fellow gay men that choose to live there lives differently to you. Gay men & women have had to conduct there sex lives out of sight and underground for so many years. When i first came out as gay at 15 i was shunned by family and friends. I found a group of very sexualised friends at pubs and clubs and some of them are still my friends to this day. I find the ways in which some gay men now that want a more hetrosexual lifestyle with kids etc as polar opposite to how i feel as a gay man. But live and let live and each to there own.
Bro you're ruining stuff for others tho. You can be sexual behind closed doors but no need to bring that culture to people in public, some people just want to enjoy friends with normality. Nothing wrong with acting slutty and stuff but there's a line c'mon
Over sexualization of self or others leads to depression. Finding meaningful relationships with people is what matters at the end
@@benjaminreyes3624 That is your opinion. Not a fact.
@@Nick-zr2rp there’s science behind it. Adult content breeds depression
@@benjaminreyes3624 Oh im so sorry. You must be correct then. lmao😆🤣
I’ve always seen Joel’s life as having a suppressive sex life. He’s always seemed a bit closed off. I always loved Joel. He’s a good person, few like him left. Then, he met a man, and changed some. So un-Joel. He started, for the first time, to open up about sex and even saying the word out loud. Question is, does he still pretend to be suppressed or opened up. How far will this new found revolution go? There’s a question. The things we do for love.
There’s a show topic to do, permission granted. Things we do for love.
Appreciate when you give the shout out to the 'honouraries'. We are all humans and thus, have similar issues. I have learnt so much from your many discussions both for myself and to be able to share in an healthy conversation. Hugs to you both. 🎉Peace.
Love the take on this guys! As a pansexual woman, my perspective is a little different about the oversexualization of the community. It angers me that there is a double standard with straight appearing couples. People see a straight appearing couple and think oh they are in love, but same sex seeming relationships? Holding hands? How dare they show us how they have sex by holding hands in public. My thought is people jump to that thought because it’s an unknown and maybe some interest in understanding that unknown. But in general people don’t know how to handle those thoughts. Women have been oversexualized for years, and if you are a bi or pan woman? Damn too many people just want to discuss same sex relations over anything else. It’s hard in all aspects of the community I fear, but I think a good portion of it is internalized homophobia.
This!!!!
At first I thought you guys said hey hobos😂😂
I don’t spend one second of my time thinking or caring about other people’s expectations of who or what I am. People are going to think whatever they like but if you allow those people to define who you are, you will never be happy within yourself. I see people in and out of the community that go on about how pride celebrations are over sexualized and children shouldn’t be exposed to them, yeah, then don’t bring them. I didn’t have the kid, you made that choice so you have to make the changes in your choices because of your decision, not me. I’m going to do and be who I want because as far as I know this is my one shot and I’m not living it for how anyone perceives me, could not give a flying fairy f’ck what anyone’s expectations are. You see so many older people in the community that turn into these prudes that look down on younger gays having their fun that I thought the older gays had worked for us to be able to have, it’s very confusing. I think everyone has to find their way of living their life and you can not allow outside influences to shape the choices you make in life.
I think what threw you about watching red, white and royally blue is that they were in love, you don’t see that often in our films. You see couples but their relationships are centered around sex. There are no deep meaningful conversations, in far too many gay films it’s about sex, cheating, murder or sadness. They make very few films where we get to be in love, stay in love and make love to the man we love.
I come from a zoologist background and I will tell you that primates are slutty or as a good friend of mine from New Orleans always used to say, "sexually generous." People forget that we are animals and primates. There is only one species of primate exclusively monogamous and that would be siamangs. Human societies' whole attitude in general about sex is kind of twisted considering it is perhaps the most natural and essential life function.... which also explains why most of us are very preoccupied with it. It spreads DNA laterally and linearly. It also has the added benefit of bonding us together. All of these things are good and not shameful. That said in general we don't teach the details, the nuances, and the complications of adulthood to children for a whole slew of reasons, but despite what people want to believe children are curious and sexual to an extent because that part of themselves is developing along with everything else. Almost all kids go through a phase where they're fascinated with some part of their body and then they move on to the next part and the next part and the next part. I don't have an answer here but I just know we need to be more chilled and laid back about the whole thing because our over complication of something so very simple leads to so much therapy and maladjustment later in life and often criminal and hurtful or dangerous activity with all kinds of victims in its wake over the centuries. Anyway that's my three cents. Thanks guys for covering this topic in a balanced and measured fashion yet genuine and with humor.
See the things with studying is, you're not learning about the whole truth, you're learning about a tiny fraction of the truth in great detail. People with a sociology degree tend to think that everything is socially constructed, while people like you tend to think everything's biology and evolution.
Neither is completely true. While we are, of course, animals with sexual needs, humans have an exceptional need for belonging and meaning. It's a small difference over all, but it makes a ton of difference. People can eat, sleep and f*** as much as they want to and still be completely and utterly miserable. That's ancient knowledge, and actually the reason why religions and stuff even emerged. They found out that people are happier with a certain type of restriction and dedication. Have less and make more of it. Sure, the church really went completely off the rails with it and restricted everyone into misery by suppressing basic human needs. But we're just finding out that the opposite is not ideal either.
Ever since I got sober and got gay married, I genuinely don't have a clue what queer culture even is outside of meaningless hook ups and drinking alcohol. Making friends within the community has been damn near impossible.
i will totally get one of those mugs once you sell them independent of your patreon cuz those are so adorable!
Great episode! Hey Joel, I know you are in the UK, but if you ever want to explore US house styles, this is a great resource - A Field Guide to American Houses by Virginia Savave McAlester.
I studied psychology and one thing that I remember was the fact of emotional equilibration. Emotions tend to balance out on the scales. If you are extremely happy, then you will tend to be very very sad too balance it out. So if the sex is great, you will pay for it later emotionally, and I don't just mean if the partner starts cheating or ups and leaves. That is the law of emotional karma.
It's sad
Simple answer yes and it’s being acknowledged
As a gay guy I think most of us need to stop making problems for ourselves and actually just live our lives and stop obsessing about or homosexuality. That’s my opinion anyway. There’s more to us than our sexual orientation.
My boyfriend and i are looking for another gay couple for game night. Cards, conversation and drinks. But all we get is invites to naked hot tubes and such.
35 years together here. We still love to travel from our new retirement home. We are not on social media much. We watch TH-cam videos and LinkedIn.
One's sexual interests are important but also have develop the rest of your personality. That's true 'sex' appeal. People have to be able to grow and adapt to truly healthy and happy.
i call it "homonarrative dissonance" (inspired by the concept of "ludonarrative dissonance") when someone has an almost exclusively sexual persona online and expects people to only perceive a three-dimensional, non-sexual irl persona that they actively withhold from the internet.
On these apps it's a double edged sword. If you don't put in your profile that you want "hook up" no one will inbox you or message you back. 90% of men on Grindr etc are only interested in sex. They don't want friendship or dates or relationships. It can be very frustrating when one wants to make a deeper connection.
Red, White and Royal Blue scenes were very intimate, rather than "shagging" and intimacy is very rear in gay media. More of it.
Gay people's oversexualization comes from hiding their sexuality as a teen. If you're denying yourself something for years that other people your age don't have to, when you do accept it, all that pent up frustration makes one go a little crazy!
I really think the over-sexualization of gay men is due to a number of different things. I was single during the 90s when sex was terribly dangerous due to AIDS and all the messaging was about safe sex and avoiding penetration, whereas now it's all Only Fans, Grinder and Scruff, expectations that we will have penetrative sex on the first day, and social networks allow us and encourage us to perceive ourselves and others as highly sexual. That's not all bad as my generation were pretty much de-sexualised or dead! There is a whole generation of men aged 55 to 70 who are just not here. I worked for THT through the nineties and we were very sex positive, and that was the right thing to do under those terrible circumstances, but it could be argued that now it's gone too far. I see many gay men saying all they can get is hook-ups when what they want is relationships - love in fact, but monogamy appears to have become the exception and considered almost weird by many out men.
I am not oversexualized maybe undersexualized I had been single for ten years and I like having my own time it can get lonely I admit but doing other things makes me preoccupied is this OK or am missing something?
No one so far does not believe in getting to know you first and letting a relationship develop. Courtship does not exist in the Gay Community.
I haven’t seen you guys on my main page in so long:( I missed you guys
Can you live stream the wedding?
When you wanna have gay couples as friends but they wanna hook up with you and your partner is also a problem in the community
Im a married gay man that is more sexually conservative than my husband. I told him the only scenario I would feel comfortable doing things with other people is if it was another couple. We’re in our 30s and in the 15 years we have been together we have hooked up with another couple only once so we aren’t like hunting down couples for sex, but I wonder if this scenario is more common where one or both people in a gay relationship only feel comfortable hooking up with other couples.
Loved the burst of laughter at 41:06.
Joel you are one hunk of a man 🔥 😊
People think its all open relationships and orgys and sex party's and its not there's nothing wrong with any of those things but some people prefer monogamous relationships or wait till marriage before having sex but get made fun of by other gay men like your not gay enough or like theres only one way to be gay and thats not alright if you dont want a open relationship or monogamous relationship thats ok but dont make the people that do feel bad or like there some how wrong for not being how you think a gay person should be and act love the video guys keep up the good work
I think there has to be a bit of everything. We shouldn't be over sexualized, but there should be protrayals of "real" sex between same sex couples in movies and TV shows, because a lot of people still consider gay sex, particularly between two men, to be dirty, gross, disgusting, and unsightly. That normalization does have a positive purpose. Sure, I'm not saying let's have all out pornography on TV, but portrayals of sexual encounters between same-sex people in media helps humanize us.
I think it's important to have a balance. Having the, hand holding, longing stares, romantic little gay stories, but also the adult-oriented dramas which can include more explicit content.
I think sex positivity has played a major role in over-sexualization. While it was somewhat revolutionary and liberating at one point, now it's overdone and honestly exhausting. It puts unrealistic expectations on most people who don't have such a high libido and interest in sex. I wish we could transition to sex-neutrality.
Topic starts at 4:09
I think the stereotype mainly comes from the fact that men are seen as thinking about/wanting sex more than women so for those of us in the alphabet mafia, with it being 2 men Of Course we would/should want it more.
I've never done genuine connection.
Isn't it dangerous?
There's no need to change things. It is what it is. It's called basic instinct for a reason. Most guys are attracted to young, good-looking, fit guys. You like what you like. It's natural that if you want to have a chance with them you need to be at least relatively hot too.
Most guys are looking for a hook-up. Again, it is what it is.
Even when guys are looking for friends they prefer them to be attractive.
Males are very horny in general and gays are especially so. And it's so easy to find a hookup with no strings attached. So, yes, sex is a number one thing for most gays, like it or not. Hooking up is fast and easy, dating is time-consuming, stressful and deprives you of sex with other guys (and normally doesn't last long anyway). No wonder only a few people are looking for something serious.
The cons of such a lifestyle is that even when you want to talk to someone and make a connection, they're not interested: they got what they wanted and prefer to just leave.
Like a troll, I am going to comment based only the title of your thumbnail. LOL I will watch the whole video at a later date, but I just don't have 45 minutes right now to devote to it.
Is the gay community oversexualized? Maybe, but so what? I love looking at hot guys! Is it good for our overall mental health? Probably not. I'm sure it contributes to body dysmorphia and angst and loneliness. However, that's why we have therapists. Finally, this is a generalized stereotype in which I participate; however, I'm sure many gay men do not feel the same way. That's my two cents. Hopefully, I won't be embarrassed by anything I've written after I've actually watched the video. 😁🥰
Topic suggestion: Pet loss and animal grieving.🙏💗😿
True.
What happened to your foot?looks like a surgical sock?
Yes yes and yes
ITULAH TRADISI ORANG BARAT LEBIH MENYUKAI BANANA DAN ANUS . 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Straight people are also the same so let's not get it twisted
Actually though Joel, you are with a rugby player who is a very fine specimen of manhood, so it's a bit disingenuous to make out the sexy appearance is not that important! Just sayin....
👍👍
Whose bottom and whose top in your relationship.
While I enjoy your podcast, I found you somewhat disingenuous this episode. A discussion about sexualization while Keegan is wearing skin-tight jeans that put his gaint calves, tree trunk quads, and other "things" front and center. I don't want a change but if you're going to talk about others... glass houses. Also let's be honest, you are two very attractive men and that's responsible for some of your TH-cam success. I'm not trying to be harsh, I really am a fan of your topics and Keegan's tree trunk quads!
I feel like this is kind of ridiculous… you can’t compare what you’ve said to guys being topless and showing lots of skin etc Keegan can’t help the size of his calves/legs. What do you expect him to do? Wear baggy jeans to cover them up, even though he doesn’t like the style of baggy clothes? I think you’re just looking for something to complain about
Bro what 💀💀
Again, it's not a complaint, just an observation. However, my larger point was that there is a sexual/ physical attractiveness component to their presentation.
Why is it so bad to ask a stranger if they're a top or bottom? Don't get me wrong, I think it's completely fine if you don't want to answer. But why are you making it taboo?
The fact you can't understand that asking a stranger about their sex life is rude, is very worrying.