It hurts so much that the Silver Knight Str. Sword doesn't have a thrust attack. Sorely needs it, and could definitely have it since the one hand R2 and two hand R2 are almost identical. Plus the Silver Knights themselves use thrust attacks. Its the prettiest weapon in the whole game and I never have any reason to actually use it over the Longsword.
theres a lot of strange decisions in this tier list and im gonna criticize a few in no particular order because i have nothing better to do. every tournament is 90% chaos blade and kumo for a reason. it really doesnt make sense to rank any wep as high as those. kumo loses to cb in re due to no ghosts, but it still out classes 90% of weapons easily. mid pike is one of the best setups so it shouldnt be c tier. trading with it outside of poise bs is a challenge on any setup. its only worse than mid kumo cause its harder to play. demon spear doesnt deal enough damage to be worth it unless it kills in 1 hit. risking eating 1100 damage from a bs to potentially deal 200 damage is never worth. and even as a finisher its kinda sketchy. everyone good will go flip at low hp vs this and now youre trading a potential 15 chip damage or something for potentially eating a barrel bs. mlgs is an ok wep, but just isnt great. investing heavily into int limits pyro options (need 45 dex for them to be good), and similarly to clay it just loses to poise. the r2 is pretty over rated as well. its only going to be used on wakeup, and even mid can just roll it. sometimes just toggle bs it. bss and long sword are highly over rated. katanas/cs out r1 them, and anything with poise just runs through them for free. rapier is worse than estoc. estoc is used as a finisher/dont get finished wep over rapier because of the range. rapier doesnt really get more bs cancels, and as far as crit damage goes they both 2 shot. also no kicks makes running either as a main wep awkward. saying that rapiers out class daggers somehow make no sense. every good build runs dagger cause its .5 weight and you want a bs wep to toggle to. dagger has faster kicks than both dst and bandit knife so is often considered better. bandit(crystal) is higher crit damage than dst but is a tier lower? greatsword over zwei? it weighs more for equal damage. r2 doesnt matter get real. doesnt matter both trash anyway. you still play btw? giant blacksmith hammer a tier? dude what
There's a lot to unpack here but I intend to respond to everything you mention, if I miss something please let me know. As far as CB outclassing BSS/LS you may be right but I think the fact that there aren't any straight sword players anymore is because there aren't any straight sword players anymore and not because they're hopelessly outclassed. Also if we're allowing crystal weapons as a consideration then a lot of things are stronger or worse than they would otherwise be. Nowadays there is in most people's minds (assumption from me) no reason to use a weapon that isn't already extremely popular but that doesn't mean that those weapons are even inferior. Katanas have always been popular and will continue to be popular not only because they are strong but because they are easy and common. If everyone you talk to uses a katana then there is more information floating around about katana v. whatever matchups than anything else then more players gravitate to that increasing the majority. Part of the reason I rank straight swords so highly is because of my own experience against them. I'm not an exceptional player by any means but I had played enough to know when I felt like there wasn't much I could do and in one match against HELLSSERVANT23 with his crystal longsword build that was how I felt. Its also worth noting that that same player switched builds against me in a tournament for seemingly the same reason against my BSS build because when a player doesn't open themselves up to free damage and makes you earn any forward progress it sometimes feels like you're actually playing against yourself more than your opponent and in other words it can feel very oppressive. As for spears. A fun fact about spears is that spears are probably the entire reason or at least most of the reason that the painted world is almost too big for duels. Any larger area and the best build in the entire game is flip spear bar none. The only build that stands a chance against a flipping spear is a turtle with a pokey weapon. A player who is sufficiently patient and sufficiently skilled with a DWGR and spear should make every matchup in a larger arena a stalemate by non-interaction. In some sense this makes spears S tier but if you get up and walk away from a game of checkers then you will also never lose so it really depends on what your goals are. I haven't seen this interaction in a very long time but I don't think you should be getting roll BS'd or runaround BS'd with a demon spear. As with a lot of things in dark souls though it probably comes down to rock paper scissors because if someone goes for the BS then on most connections aiming a second swing will cancel it, if they attack you head on you should try to trade hits in many situations because if you're using it you're probably already winning, and if they try to act on a prediction of either of those choices then its just RPS of one more depth which simplifies to exactly the same situation. It is pretty low damage but the advantage of the demon spear is not it's damage it is that nearly every build can use it, without MS or GMS you can never hope to block 100% of it's damage, and you're safer further away with more reaction time and the ability to shield poke if you should need to. I flip flop on the strength of MLGS more than probably any other weapon. I believe MLGS loses less to poise than claymore because, I believe, that when the speeds of both weapons were reduced the speed of the MLGS stayed faster than the Claymore. The lack of dexterity makes pyro less reliable and arguably not even worth running, int spells tend to have no place in pvp but desyncing HCSM and other oddities I'm sure still have some potential for abuse. I haven't done the math but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about them both 2shotting don't quote me on that though. The advantage of rapier and estoc over daggers is that daggers lack purpose aside from crits whereas rapier and estoc both have useful movesets in addition to crit potential. Also again I haven't done the math or tested this but it's likely that against bulkier opponents the gap between dagger and thrusting sword becomes even larger when it comes to crit damage due to thrusting sword shenanigans. Kicks are nice to have but also a liability you can absolutely get straight up backstabbed for whiffing a kick. The Greatsword and Zwei are both useless in the tier of play that still exists no one would seriously use them. That being said this tier list wasn't meant to be exclusively for FC or tournament play otherwise I would be ranking weapons based more on other factors. It is meant to be more a comparison of them amongst their weapon class and in that regard I think they're comparable. As you mentioned they do the same damage. I am of the opinion that the difference in range is a non issue and appears to be a lot larger than it actually is akin to but not identical to the washing pole situation. The R2 on the other hand in both cases will never be used effectively, however the zwei R2 does its absolute best to get you killed while the GS R2 is at least pretending to try and help, its also a thrusting attack which counts for more than nothing. The blacksmith giant hammer is lightweight is big in breadth and length and what? Are you going to argue that the mace or morning star are superior? I mean maybe the pickaxe because of the damage output but again this is a comparison of weapons both within their class and slightly between classes. I could beat most players who are holding a blacksmith giant hammer with a mail breaker but that doesn't mean much about either weapon individually, it says much more about their weapon class interactions. If you rank the weapon classes against each other exclusively then you also have to consider the arena they're fighting in because there is a certain someone who made everyone hate darkmoon tomb as an arena and I can think of several "arenas" where gold tracer would be tiple S+ tier just because you would never be able to move. That is basically to say that the range of the blacksmith giant hammer is longer than it's competition and while the other maces beg and plead to be 2handed the blacksmith giant hammer suffers a penalty of only about 20 attack rating when one handed making shielding an actual option. Also the range of the blacksmith giant hammer counts for more than just range in this weapon class as clipping someone's shield or otherwise making contact with the target prevents the extended whiff animation. If I were to revise it would I shuffle around the maces? Probably. But I maintain that the weapon class suffers in a lot of areas where the blacksmith giant hammer suffers just a little bit less. Do I still play? I play casual PvE every once in awhile but I heard the servers were down and even if they weren't I'm banned from remastered thanks to item randomizers and negligence. I also read somewhere that you can basically set up a private server for dark souls 1 PvP but I don't actually have any friends.
ptde has space wars servers still running that are pretty easy to connect to (th-cam.com/video/2-5HIYRzFfA/w-d-xo.html). most randos on there arent worth fighting, but duels are arranged on discord most days. if you want in on that lmk. the giant blacksmith hammer thing is crazy though. i wouldnt argue that any of the other hammers are better, id argue that theyre all bordering unusable. maybe it could reach up to C tier if it didnt have a whiff penalty, but it still deals no real damage. and the range, while better than other hammers/maces, is still too short to be safe from just getting poise/toggle bs'd. while arenas certainly impact weapon performance, i dont think theres an arena that can make hammers/maces good at all
@@itistheend I’ll take whatever discord links you’ve got or whatever sure. All hammer/mace type weapons are not good but I’m just trying to emphasize that there’s more to ranking the weapons as I see it than just ‘loses to CB, D tier’ 100 or so times for an hour even though if I made a competitive tier list as I see it, there would be like seven weapons that are not in F tier and I wouldn’t be caught dead defending the blacksmith giant hammer. Also I’m pretty sure the crystal uchi is just better than the chaos blade because it has higher base damage no self damage and you can put gold pine or charcoal it at least once in most fights sometimes more. The range might actually be impactful there but hey at least you have a one handed R2 and let’s be honest who is going to be expecting you to do that ever practically no one.
hey an hour of listing every weapons strong points followed by "but this wep is D tier cause cb exists" would be funny. if you want in add me: It is the end#0770. not gonna leave a link in a yt comment section
Someone who outs the rapier in s tier? Smart. I wished you elaborated a bit more on why its good. It was my favorite weapon in pvp when i used to no life dks1 pvp in HS. I think an underrated quality of it I adore heavily is the range of the 1 handed r2, it is deceptively long and catches a lot of people odd guard when its pulled out and is a great way of fishing for leo counter hits. Outside that, the running r1 is ovvioudly well known for a reason, the general moveset is solid even if it is linear in what it can do, and ofc the critical damage is insane. I didnt try to fish for backstabs that much when I used it (except like when i was counter backstabber people who circle straffed for one) but I have a lot of fond memories of using it in pvp and getting good success with it.
In my opinion the rapier is S tier because every build can use it and every build has one or more situations where they want to use it. The 1hr2 is actually really useful I agree with all that. Just a really solid and useful weapon.
My personal tier (for SL 120-140 with crystal) S-tier: Murokumo, Chaos blade (only these 2, other weapon is hardly to compete) A-tier: Great club (when crystal infused is basically a one-shot backstab, but it's slow and have a long whiff when missed), Estoc(with turtle shield poke), Bss, uchigatana, MLGS, butterfly horn, claymore, BKGA Other weapon is way too low to compete with S and A tier (The reason why i didn't put demon spear, curved sword in S and A is because they're too easy to be countered, like demon spear is low damage to fight against an aggressive Murokumo player, curved sword is easily get parried or poise stab) Other
If we are talking strictly about competitive viability then I agree with the S tier but in A tier I would remove claymore and bkga because I think they lose so hard to S tier. Also rapier and demons spear should be S tier in my opinion as backups.
@ifmyfacewuzjello sorry to say, but imo demon spear is easily to countered even if you turtle shield poke with DWGR, your opponent will easily toggle backstab or poise stab when you R1 or block R1. Even a kick from your opponent is means a free R1 Yes demon spear is annoying but it isn't a winning factor you can rely on I tried this build (turtle poke DWGR) and lose so hard (like 10 times in a row) in township or arena
@@krisonveloc25 the demon spear is a weapon that you only switch to when your opponent is on very very low hp or you both are, otherwise it is not a good weapon. In the situations where first touch wins, the demon spear is very effective because of the significant range and low stat requirements. It is one of the longest weapons that practically every build can use and for that reason it has a use on almost every build. It depends on what you mean by an "S tier weapon" but I would say that the fact that every build can use it and there is a situation wherein it is useful makes it S tier to me.
Sucks that you aren't able to be too active in making videos because the stuff you have made is by far the most informative DS1-related content available on TH-cam (unless the shitty algorithm is hiding a treasure trove of content from me). I'll be sure to keep my eye on your channel in case you do upload more, cuz this is good shit.
@@InMustafar Very late reply but the Giant Blacksmith Hammer with 27 strength is strong when 2handing and you wouldn't want to 1hand it too much. Its what I and other would refer to as a 'gouge' build weapon where someone dumps point into endurance and vitality for extra health or equip load in exchange for lower damage.
claymore great club handaxe large club manserpant black knight greataxe dark silver tracer bandits knife rapier chaos blade halberd moonlight greatsword demons spear ----------- i think those are the s tiers and arguably more could be in there but those are 100% goated weapons in this games pvp. and how does any straight sword compete with these weapons?
Claymore has very high stat investment needed to reach its potential and is relatively slow and especially weak to shielding opponents and needs 2 hands to lower the strength investment required for optimal damage output. Great club can only backstab and rolling attack generally speaking without being easily punished and is extremely heavy. Hand axe capitalizes on latency via its speed and is otherwise low in damage output and range. Large club is great club with less weight and less damage, another stat stick for bsing. Man-serpent is slower than other weapons in its class and lower range and I don't think there is a case for this weapon in S tier. Black knight Greataxe has high weight an excellent moveset but again 18 points in dexterity doesn't convey any other benefits, though I could see this weapon being high tier maybe top tier. Dark Silver Tracer has one function with high stat investment required to perform that function and is otherwise not useful as a secondary weapon causing it to be outclassed. Bandits knife as far as I am aware does not compete with the rapier or even the Dark Silver Tracer regarding a backstab weapon and doesn't share the range of the rapier or the superior moveset OR the armor penetration and higher base damage of the rapier and the bleed is negligible because you will have a hard time outdamaging most weapons when spamming or going 1 for 1 with other weapon's light attacks. Rapier is exceptionally strong and belongs in S tier. Chaos Blade also belongs in S tier. Halberd's whiff animation actually matters in dark souls 1 so it has a hard time competing with other things because backstabs are so prevalent and swinging your weapon is risky and missing with a halberd is even worse than normal. Moonlight Greatsword is S tier but honestly this one is a tough sell sometimes because not having dexterity means your pyromancy is slower. Demon's spear is an S tier weapon but not as a primary unless you really commit to being a rat. On the topic of straight swords. Straight swords are not underestimated by those who are aware of their very high damage output and excellent movesets. Even the humble longsword does a very significant amount of damage. The balder side sword does not require strength investment to see its damage output and has excellent range. It is held back by its sub-par backstab damage. However, the rapier is notable for making up for the lack of backstab damage of other primary weapons. I believe the Balder side sword is very high tier, you could argue that I put it in top tier due to bias but if you believe it belongs below A-tier then in my opinion you do not have experience with or against it. Its range and low stamina consumption offer freedoms that other weapons have a hard time emulating. In dark souls 1 stamina management and swing speed are both important if you ever want to do anything other than fish for backstabs. Balder side sword passes with flying colors with both a low swing speed and low stamina consumption allowing for defensive maneuvers more quickly and more plentifully than many of the weapons you would place in the same tier. It also has a usable heavy attack which is simply not true of most of the weapons in the entire game giving the player holding it more choices and forcing the player playing against it to be aware of the fact that they are in danger of being struck by a highly damaging strong attack even at distances that are unrivaled by some spears. I am interested in why it is you think some weapons belong higher in the tier list. Particularly the Dark Silver Tracer and Bandit's Knife.
As a pvp player ds1, I think the tierlist is not totally fair because according to the SL or you pvp some weapons are very much more OP than others (by optimization) - expemple: sl10-15 Start class warrior, the famous gravelord sword not upgraded Stier easily and also darkhand,sl40 Anor londo (min maxing build) -Start class Bandit (48 vita lvl,just vita lvling nothing to all); armor (equip load 25% fast rolling) Mother mask, Havel glove, Holow soldier leg (35 poise), FAP and Hornet ring; (WL+15) chaos/lightning dagger+5(because 0.5 equip load) and smal leather shield+15 Simple and efficient. So to be more precise I think this tierlisttt is dedicated to pvp sl80-100/ sl120-125 meta* : Sorry if my English is bad I use a translator x)
I think I mention at the beginning the specific soul level range. You are correct(ish) because things like the GLGS are stronger at lower level than at higher level but so is every weapon upgraded to +5 Chaos. Most of the weapons in this list are rated based on their movesets combined with damage output but almost everything one shots level 10's so in that sense all the strong movesets are just stronger. Also from level 10 to level 80 dragon form is busted. Effectively what you're saying isn't relevant because all the weapons that can be used at a high level can be used at a low level with a different upgrade path except for those with restrictive stat investment. Before you respond with "but using a chaos weapon against level 10's is twinking" consider that using the GLGS is also twinking and if you think there's a difference because you only make yourself significantly stronger than your opponent rather than being able to 1shot them with a single R1 I urge you to reconsider your current view of ethics and morality as it relates to twinking in a videogame.
My personal favorites are: Large Club is A for me, both for gankers and duels. The R2s catch many people off guard even when I played it years after its release and the poison buildup is nice for applying pressure. Obsidian GS is C on a normal build but B or A on a spellblade type build. More people than you think fall for the AOE despite it being telegraphed af. Iaito is S for me. The 1H R2 almost always hits as a wakeup and is very rarely parried. My favorite dex weapon in the game. Zweihänder is S tier against gankers. My most used weapon. I'd swap Rapier and Estoc. Rapier is great as a backup weapon but is outclassed as a main weapon if you're not fishing for criticals. Estoc is better as a main weapon due to moveset versitility and reach. I loved using great magic barrier in PvP because it absolutely shat on the MLGS, MLBH and everything mage related. Suprisingly few mage builds I encountered have a non-magic backup weapon because nobody thinks of the spell.
Replying in reverse order: GMB is op against pure mage yup rapier fits on nearly every build as a crit and shield poke option and it's fast so it is better overall than estoc imo Zwei too slow against gankers and normals I would almost always prefer a katana Modern dark souls and for many years prior optimal play against wakeup unless someone is oneshot hp is to parry buffer a backstab attempt or kick into parry buffer backstab mixup and that is unlikely to ever change Obsidian sword is arguable B tier but not to me I think its pretty terrible if I remember correctly its the slowest greatsword and also the 2hr2 is backstab bait Large club is similar to the zwei for me, good for fishing but you can't reliably swing it to cancel a backstab Your opinions aren't wrong they are opinions, but as for greatclub and obsidian sword specifically those opinions are founded on oldschool burg duels and not SFCSpadesRPG with a flip spear.
I'm new to DS1 and I just started using the great scythe and I'd really like to know why people despise it so much. All of the attacks are useful, the damage is good, and it's stupid fun.
It isn't actually bad but it is a little self defeating. It has a few things that are really nice about it like it causes bleed and has higher than average base damage and it can be buffed. The really unfortunate thing about the great scythe is just the attack speed. Being able to be buffed and having bleed damage are both qualities that scale with attack speed. It has two other unfortunate qualities. If you miss a swing with the great scythe there is an extended recovery animation which is dangerous. Also the 2HR2 causes your character to run forwards a short distance which effectively exposes your back. And for R1s vertical over the head swings are pretty much the worst attack style in the game. In PvE the weapon is very strong though still outclassed by other dexterity weapons. In PvP it is too dangerous for players who are playing well and trying to win.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Thank you for explaining so thoroughly. It is doing work in terms of pve, mostly because of the 2H R2s being what they are. The standing R1s are pretty trash now that you mention it (you can use them to hit crystal lizards though). I've used the silver knight sword for most of my first playthrough because it was really easy to fully upgrade, and the R2s have a badass camera shake effect when you connect with them. I honestly wish it had something more going for it because it's probably my favorite weapon in the game so far. Thanks for making the tier list, and all the rest of your content. I'm working on getting the gear and stats I need for a complete pvp build, and your channel has a lot of really helpful information. I'm trying not to spoil the game too much for myself but I also don't want to miss any useful pvp weapons so stuff like this is really helpful for looking up specific item locations.
You might have a hard time finding PvP nowadays, im not sure what the community looks like out there anymore but good luck to you. The silver knight sword is pretty cool I would also like it to be stronger. I plan to make build guides in the future, but my uploading schedule is inconsistent and the holidays are almost upon us so don't hold your breath. Thanks for the encouragement!@@hiondubs
What would be a typical SL125 longsword setup? My thought was like 50/60 vit and end, 30/30 str and dex and then 61 poise armor setup with FAP and leo using longsword +15 and a small leather shield. I've never used it before but would love to give it a shot with the right build around it
I normally don't mind midrolling with something like a longsword and 61 poise is a little hard to achieve without either midrolling or using havels over ring of favor. If you're willing to cut down to a lower poise then something like mmdks.com/bbto this build gives you fast pyros and no need for menu swapping between the rapier and longsword, plus a few extra stat points that you can put wherever to either maximize your stamina or get some extra health or whatever. If you're willing to midroll you can do things like mmdks.com/bbtp which gives up access to fast pyro (you can still get attunement slots by giving up the extra endurance if you want pyromancy on the build) or forces you to menu to swap between longsword and rapier but what it gives you in return is higher damage on your one handed R2 which is most of the reason to use a leo ring in a build like this anyways. It's much easier to critique a build and point out problems with it than it is to suggest a build because there are a lot of factors that go into what makes a build mesh well with a playstyle. If you are looking for SL125 with 61 poise and FaP+Damage ring and fastroll, I'm sorry to tell you that that just isn't practical. SL135 would give you the extra stats needed to get closer to that kind of a build but for even that to fastroll is asking a lot. Many people will just use havels over ring of favor for pretty much that reason.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Wow great write up, thanks a ton for this. I like that lower poise set up, I guess you could swap wolf ring in and out of place of leo if you absolutely needed some poise to squeeze by in a pinch. Definitely going to give these a shot, really appreciate all the advice!!
I just like weapons with bleed or poison effects in PvP cuz it can annoy my opponent. That's why I use Gravelord Sword, Lifehunt Scythe and Gold Tracer
This tier list is missing something. If you do less of one damage type than the enemy's defense to it, your damage is lowered significantly. Since 400-450 defense is common (Giant's Set), straight swords, split damage weapons and even katanas are not that great, unless your opponent has low defense (which is also common, giving a skewed view of these weapons). This makes Greatswords (Bastard Sword, Claymore) S tier, since they have the perfect blend of speed, damage, range, moveset and weight. With a special note on the Crystal Bastard Sword +5 being SS tier, since you can get an infinite amount of them, with 40 STR/DEX it does 577 damage one handed, a normal Zweihander +15 doing only 610 damage despite being much heavier and slower. And I'll tell you why the Flamberge and all Curved Greatswords are worse than the Claymore, because their moveset doesn't use the full range of the weapon.
This is a pretty wild take, that being said I only have one substantial response to this. Giant's armor is present at most levels of play but this tier list wasn't mean to be solely for fight club pvp/summon duels. As far as armor and damage calculations in dark souls they are weird and could take up a whole video on their own.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello There is another reason why the Claymore is S tier. Compare it with the Longsword, in this game it's hard to get even one hit in, the Longsword is shorter and weighs less, but it's slower than it looks and when a hit connects it doesn't stagger the opponent so he gets out of the way. You end up doing just one weak hit. Why just one? Because the Longsword has wide swings that take mooooore time to finish, unlike the compact swings of the Falchion and Gold Tracer (which can stunlock successfully, depending on the enemy's poise, of course). Now for the Claymore, it requires 40 STR/DEX to unlock its potential just like the Longsword. It has 524 AR instead of 408 and is deceptively faster than it looks, covers a wide area, it doesn't require you to get too close to the opponent and the thrusts can catch many off guard. It combos easily, staggers the opponent in around 2 hits, doing more damage on each one. Here the wider swings make sense since the sword has more reach, making the hits happen. 3-4 hits, a black flame and the fight is won. Other pros of the Claymore: You don't want to trade hits with it even with a Falchion or Zweihander, you will get staggered first most likely. You will be more reluctant to parry it, since if you fail, it's more taxing.
@@kingofchaoss The 2h strong attack of the longsword actually has a fast recovery time and good reach and damage. You probably wont be able to convince me that the claymore is better than the longsword. Also I mention this in the video but most people who consider poise in their builds will have a minimum of 56 poise specifically because it stops the claymore from stunning and anyone in giants has more poise than this by default, so the faster swings of the longsword are more useful for avoiding being punished after being poised through. The claymore used to be very popular and I think that the crystal bastard sword is likely better than the claymore. They are both fine weapons in their own right but the longsword is a very very strong weapon.
@@kingofchaoss It will certainly do a lot of damage, 2-3 shotting most players. That's a lot of stat investment if you want the full damage output though.
How tf chaos blade beats iaito/uchigatana? Chaos blade have useless heavy attacks, while iaito can mess with timings and make your opponent miss all his parry/roll attempts. Also chaos blade cant be buffed. So how?
Its got best range if the 3, best damage on pure dex. R2 is Dark Souls 1 are garbage on most weapons. CB has kick>R1 which, for some reason, CB kick does 20 poise damage meaning it does 50 poise damage. Uchi and iaito are worse outside of weight. And if youre buffing, you should be using Falcion as its got an infinite stunlock allowing an OtK. Katanas favor hit and run in DkS.
Can't believe I haven't replied to this until now, sorry. This is a PvP weapons tier list. Buffs are notorious in PvP for being a sort of cheesy strategy that only work against less experienced players and the chaos blade is more consistent overall than any buffed katana. The primary competition to chaos blade is crystal uchigatana and while most people don't see a problem with using crystal weapons in PvP I think it is a bit scummy. The range of the chaos blade is superior and I believe the bleed buildup is also superior which are both impactful. Also the damage of the chaos blade is simply higher than the other katanas. The R2's of the iaito are also punishable and I believe the iaito is the shortest katana.
My weapon I crafted and upgraded was the qualag fury sword. Upto that point I had never been attacked by a Phantom. The moment I got that sword, I was constantly invaded but one after the other, they fell. Once I finished the game, months later on TH-cam, I found out that I could've been doing more damage if i had some humanity on me. 😂
That's a really interesting and rare opinion. I think wherever you put any BS stat stick is where almost all of them belong. Idk much about the sweeping attack though.
I think this has to be like an elaborate troll, QFS is a complete piece of shit lmao. Any unique weapon with native split damage is garbo by default, you can't buff it, literally no reason to run it over a falchion or a gold tracer besides slightly bigger reach, which is sort of useless, because with curved swords you're gonna be fighting people close up anyway. I don't know what your experience with this game is, if you just started with the Remaster or if you actually played PTDE, but there is never a point you'd see someone who knew what they were doing with a QFS. The only people you'd see using it were the most awful of forest gankers fat rolling with a bunch of mismatched trashion with 2 phantoms backing them up.
Well first of all it isn't that elaborate, even if it was a troll. It seems like the biggest problem you have is with the qfs but the reach of qfs isn't "slightly bigger" its massive by comparison. Range is, in my opinion, one of the most important factors of a weapon in this game. A decent portion of the reason that I think BSS is so much better than longsword is the range. The range of the washing pole is actually "slightly bigger" than the other katanas at a significant damage cost especially when compared to the chaos blade because of the weird way the character attacks with it. You don't see almost anyone doing anything with buffs who knows what they're doing anyways because buffs are actually pretty terrible. Fights in dark souls often drag into the 5+ minute mark and buffs don't last even close to half that time forcing you to play a certain way and open yourself up to being punished. There absolutely was a period where qfs was fairly popular either on dex or gouge builds. The qfs sucks by comparison to a lot of weapons but its competition in the curved sword class is a bunch of mediocre garbage and one decent weapon. All the ultra greats are terrible too but I wasn't planning to just put all but four weapons in D or F tier just because katanas and spears exist. Every curved sword is Z tier when you put it up against flip spear in most of the arenas in the game. Also again with the split damage thing, split damage that is split 50/50 is absolutely terrible awful garbage but the QFS isn't split like other split weapons are. QFS is much closer to 80% fire damage which can suffer against a lot of sets but gets chip damage for free against a lot of shields and the range of the weapon is much much better than it looks especially at the edges. Would I put the qfs lower? Maybe, it kinda depends on what time period we are talking about but it really isn't as trash as you make it out to be. Most people who use the qfs don't actually have a clue what they're doing but I used to play on wireless so between the range and the strike speed it just ping diffs people sometimes, like the hatchet but not nearly as annoying and doesn't work as well on local wireless.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Ok I can kinda see what you're saying but I'd still never say it's anywhere near genuine godtier shit like Claymore, Kumo, BSS, Chaos Blade, Demon Spear etc.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello And I dunno about fights lasting 5+ minutes, invasions sure if you fuck up your ambush or if you invade gankers who know what they're doing, but I don't think I had more than a handful of duels that lasted that long over my entire time playing this game.
It tends to be the case that the more invested players are in winning the longer a fight will last, in addition to rules around healing and other such things. A humanity enabled fight where both players won't accept a loss until their character is dead can drag on for quite awhile. 5 minutes might seem long and it probably is a bit longer than average. I'll respond to your other comment in this one too real quick. BSS Claymore CB and Uchi are all functionally far superior to QFS. That being said, the fact that you include demon spear here kind of gets at an important point when comparing weapons in dark souls. I would wager to say that in remastered I could beat even some very competent practiced players if they had a demon spear and I had an estoc. There is a lot that goes into weapon matchups in this game and certain weapons are extremely useful in their niche and not otherwise. A player who tries to use the demon spear exclusively will probably lose because they are using it "wrong". The rapier, bandits knife, demon spear, dark silver tracer, and others are all weapons that are A to S+ tier at what they do but outside of their comfort zone they range from underwhelming to seemingly useless. Those weapons are very different from QFS of course. Maybe I overvalue range and swing speed. However I've tried to make the washing pole work and felt like I really couldn't justify using it where I didn't feel the same about QFS and I've made a couple builds that are centered around it. It has major drawbacks but fortunately most of those are drawbacks that are also shared by the rest of the weapons in the curved sword class like, for instance, low critical damage. That means that the opportunity cost for using it instead of the falchion is lower (at least in regards to crit damage specifically) than if you were to compare it to almost any other weapon in the game. There is no shield in the game that can fully block the damage of QFS. And on top of this it still has dexterity scaling so dumping stats into dex for faster pyro doesn't feel like a waste as it does with a gouge build. Lastly, Dark Souls has many many weapons with strong attacks that are completely useless and or a danger to the user. The QFS is one of the few weapons in this game that doesn't suffer this issue. Hope this puts things in perspective a little bit. For reference even back in like whatever year it was idk 2015 or whatever the QFS was already practically nonexistent. It was only popular for a little while before the DLC dropped and a little while after if I remember correctly. @@ilikepotatoes1345
Pretty good video, and i agree with you 9/10 times, however the lip noise you make at the start of every sentence really grinds my nerves. Sorry i had to get it out. Otherwise all good! Cheers mate
just because few people play it doesn't mean it isn't strong. Also man serpent and zwei were rarely played especially by people who are decent at the game. And black knight great axe hasn't been popular in like a decade.@@laszlovagi6775
@@ifmyfacewuzjellothats where you are wrong mate, at the sweatiest level this game is all about having hornet ring a high ar or crit weapon and circling for backstabs.
It hurts so much that the Silver Knight Str. Sword doesn't have a thrust attack. Sorely needs it, and could definitely have it since the one hand R2 and two hand R2 are almost identical. Plus the Silver Knights themselves use thrust attacks.
Its the prettiest weapon in the whole game and I never have any reason to actually use it over the Longsword.
I can hardly agree more
theres a lot of strange decisions in this tier list and im gonna criticize a few in no particular order because i have nothing better to do.
every tournament is 90% chaos blade and kumo for a reason. it really doesnt make sense to rank any wep as high as those. kumo loses to cb in re due to no ghosts, but it still out classes 90% of weapons easily.
mid pike is one of the best setups so it shouldnt be c tier. trading with it outside of poise bs is a challenge on any setup. its only worse than mid kumo cause its harder to play.
demon spear doesnt deal enough damage to be worth it unless it kills in 1 hit. risking eating 1100 damage from a bs to potentially deal 200 damage is never worth. and even as a finisher its kinda sketchy. everyone good will go flip at low hp vs this and now youre trading a potential 15 chip damage or something for potentially eating a barrel bs.
mlgs is an ok wep, but just isnt great. investing heavily into int limits pyro options (need 45 dex for them to be good), and similarly to clay it just loses to poise. the r2 is pretty over rated as well. its only going to be used on wakeup, and even mid can just roll it. sometimes just toggle bs it.
bss and long sword are highly over rated. katanas/cs out r1 them, and anything with poise just runs through them for free.
rapier is worse than estoc. estoc is used as a finisher/dont get finished wep over rapier because of the range. rapier doesnt really get more bs cancels, and as far as crit damage goes they both 2 shot. also no kicks makes running either as a main wep awkward.
saying that rapiers out class daggers somehow make no sense. every good build runs dagger cause its .5 weight and you want a bs wep to toggle to. dagger has faster kicks than both dst and bandit knife so is often considered better. bandit(crystal) is higher crit damage than dst but is a tier lower?
greatsword over zwei? it weighs more for equal damage. r2 doesnt matter get real. doesnt matter both trash anyway.
you still play btw?
giant blacksmith hammer a tier? dude what
There's a lot to unpack here but I intend to respond to everything you mention, if I miss something please let me know.
As far as CB outclassing BSS/LS you may be right but I think the fact that there aren't any straight sword players anymore is because there aren't any straight sword players anymore and not because they're hopelessly outclassed. Also if we're allowing crystal weapons as a consideration then a lot of things are stronger or worse than they would otherwise be. Nowadays there is in most people's minds (assumption from me) no reason to use a weapon that isn't already extremely popular but that doesn't mean that those weapons are even inferior. Katanas have always been popular and will continue to be popular not only because they are strong but because they are easy and common. If everyone you talk to uses a katana then there is more information floating around about katana v. whatever matchups than anything else then more players gravitate to that increasing the majority. Part of the reason I rank straight swords so highly is because of my own experience against them. I'm not an exceptional player by any means but I had played enough to know when I felt like there wasn't much I could do and in one match against HELLSSERVANT23 with his crystal longsword build that was how I felt. Its also worth noting that that same player switched builds against me in a tournament for seemingly the same reason against my BSS build because when a player doesn't open themselves up to free damage and makes you earn any forward progress it sometimes feels like you're actually playing against yourself more than your opponent and in other words it can feel very oppressive.
As for spears. A fun fact about spears is that spears are probably the entire reason or at least most of the reason that the painted world is almost too big for duels. Any larger area and the best build in the entire game is flip spear bar none. The only build that stands a chance against a flipping spear is a turtle with a pokey weapon. A player who is sufficiently patient and sufficiently skilled with a DWGR and spear should make every matchup in a larger arena a stalemate by non-interaction. In some sense this makes spears S tier but if you get up and walk away from a game of checkers then you will also never lose so it really depends on what your goals are.
I haven't seen this interaction in a very long time but I don't think you should be getting roll BS'd or runaround BS'd with a demon spear. As with a lot of things in dark souls though it probably comes down to rock paper scissors because if someone goes for the BS then on most connections aiming a second swing will cancel it, if they attack you head on you should try to trade hits in many situations because if you're using it you're probably already winning, and if they try to act on a prediction of either of those choices then its just RPS of one more depth which simplifies to exactly the same situation. It is pretty low damage but the advantage of the demon spear is not it's damage it is that nearly every build can use it, without MS or GMS you can never hope to block 100% of it's damage, and you're safer further away with more reaction time and the ability to shield poke if you should need to.
I flip flop on the strength of MLGS more than probably any other weapon. I believe MLGS loses less to poise than claymore because, I believe, that when the speeds of both weapons were reduced the speed of the MLGS stayed faster than the Claymore. The lack of dexterity makes pyro less reliable and arguably not even worth running, int spells tend to have no place in pvp but desyncing HCSM and other oddities I'm sure still have some potential for abuse.
I haven't done the math but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about them both 2shotting don't quote me on that though. The advantage of rapier and estoc over daggers is that daggers lack purpose aside from crits whereas rapier and estoc both have useful movesets in addition to crit potential. Also again I haven't done the math or tested this but it's likely that against bulkier opponents the gap between dagger and thrusting sword becomes even larger when it comes to crit damage due to thrusting sword shenanigans. Kicks are nice to have but also a liability you can absolutely get straight up backstabbed for whiffing a kick.
The Greatsword and Zwei are both useless in the tier of play that still exists no one would seriously use them. That being said this tier list wasn't meant to be exclusively for FC or tournament play otherwise I would be ranking weapons based more on other factors. It is meant to be more a comparison of them amongst their weapon class and in that regard I think they're comparable. As you mentioned they do the same damage. I am of the opinion that the difference in range is a non issue and appears to be a lot larger than it actually is akin to but not identical to the washing pole situation. The R2 on the other hand in both cases will never be used effectively, however the zwei R2 does its absolute best to get you killed while the GS R2 is at least pretending to try and help, its also a thrusting attack which counts for more than nothing.
The blacksmith giant hammer is lightweight is big in breadth and length and what? Are you going to argue that the mace or morning star are superior? I mean maybe the pickaxe because of the damage output but again this is a comparison of weapons both within their class and slightly between classes. I could beat most players who are holding a blacksmith giant hammer with a mail breaker but that doesn't mean much about either weapon individually, it says much more about their weapon class interactions. If you rank the weapon classes against each other exclusively then you also have to consider the arena they're fighting in because there is a certain someone who made everyone hate darkmoon tomb as an arena and I can think of several "arenas" where gold tracer would be tiple S+ tier just because you would never be able to move. That is basically to say that the range of the blacksmith giant hammer is longer than it's competition and while the other maces beg and plead to be 2handed the blacksmith giant hammer suffers a penalty of only about 20 attack rating when one handed making shielding an actual option. Also the range of the blacksmith giant hammer counts for more than just range in this weapon class as clipping someone's shield or otherwise making contact with the target prevents the extended whiff animation. If I were to revise it would I shuffle around the maces? Probably. But I maintain that the weapon class suffers in a lot of areas where the blacksmith giant hammer suffers just a little bit less.
Do I still play? I play casual PvE every once in awhile but I heard the servers were down and even if they weren't I'm banned from remastered thanks to item randomizers and negligence. I also read somewhere that you can basically set up a private server for dark souls 1 PvP but I don't actually have any friends.
ptde has space wars servers still running that are pretty easy to connect to (th-cam.com/video/2-5HIYRzFfA/w-d-xo.html). most randos on there arent worth fighting, but duels are arranged on discord most days. if you want in on that lmk.
the giant blacksmith hammer thing is crazy though. i wouldnt argue that any of the other hammers are better, id argue that theyre all bordering unusable. maybe it could reach up to C tier if it didnt have a whiff penalty, but it still deals no real damage. and the range, while better than other hammers/maces, is still too short to be safe from just getting poise/toggle bs'd. while arenas certainly impact weapon performance, i dont think theres an arena that can make hammers/maces good at all
@@itistheend I’ll take whatever discord links you’ve got or whatever sure. All hammer/mace type weapons are not good but I’m just trying to emphasize that there’s more to ranking the weapons as I see it than just ‘loses to CB, D tier’ 100 or so times for an hour even though if I made a competitive tier list as I see it, there would be like seven weapons that are not in F tier and I wouldn’t be caught dead defending the blacksmith giant hammer. Also I’m pretty sure the crystal uchi is just better than the chaos blade because it has higher base damage no self damage and you can put gold pine or charcoal it at least once in most fights sometimes more. The range might actually be impactful there but hey at least you have a one handed R2 and let’s be honest who is going to be expecting you to do that ever practically no one.
hey an hour of listing every weapons strong points followed by "but this wep is D tier cause cb exists" would be funny. if you want in add me: It is the end#0770. not gonna leave a link in a yt comment section
"Thats where it belongs, más o menos"
Si en una parte dijo mas o menos XD
29:00 y encima lo dice con acento gringo jaja
Someone who outs the rapier in s tier?
Smart. I wished you elaborated a bit more on why its good. It was my favorite weapon in pvp when i used to no life dks1 pvp in HS. I think an underrated quality of it I adore heavily is the range of the 1 handed r2, it is deceptively long and catches a lot of people odd guard when its pulled out and is a great way of fishing for leo counter hits.
Outside that, the running r1 is ovvioudly well known for a reason, the general moveset is solid even if it is linear in what it can do, and ofc the critical damage is insane. I didnt try to fish for backstabs that much when I used it (except like when i was counter backstabber people who circle straffed for one) but I have a lot of fond memories of using it in pvp and getting good success with it.
In my opinion the rapier is S tier because every build can use it and every build has one or more situations where they want to use it. The 1hr2 is actually really useful I agree with all that. Just a really solid and useful weapon.
My personal tier (for SL 120-140 with crystal)
S-tier:
Murokumo, Chaos blade (only these 2, other weapon is hardly to compete)
A-tier:
Great club (when crystal infused is basically a one-shot backstab, but it's slow and have a long whiff when missed), Estoc(with turtle shield poke), Bss, uchigatana, MLGS, butterfly horn, claymore, BKGA
Other weapon is way too low to compete with S and A tier
(The reason why i didn't put demon spear, curved sword in S and A is because they're too easy to be countered, like demon spear is low damage to fight against an aggressive Murokumo player, curved sword is easily get parried or poise stab)
Other
P/S:
Even I say S and A tier, there's a huge gap between them, an A-tier user is hardly to win against a S-tier user
If we are talking strictly about competitive viability then I agree with the S tier but in A tier I would remove claymore and bkga because I think they lose so hard to S tier. Also rapier and demons spear should be S tier in my opinion as backups.
@ifmyfacewuzjello sorry to say, but imo demon spear is easily to countered even if you turtle shield poke with DWGR, your opponent will easily toggle backstab or poise stab when you R1 or block R1.
Even a kick from your opponent is means a free R1
Yes demon spear is annoying but it isn't a winning factor you can rely on
I tried this build (turtle poke DWGR) and lose so hard (like 10 times in a row) in township or arena
@@krisonveloc25 the demon spear is a weapon that you only switch to when your opponent is on very very low hp or you both are, otherwise it is not a good weapon. In the situations where first touch wins, the demon spear is very effective because of the significant range and low stat requirements. It is one of the longest weapons that practically every build can use and for that reason it has a use on almost every build. It depends on what you mean by an "S tier weapon" but I would say that the fact that every build can use it and there is a situation wherein it is useful makes it S tier to me.
I loved Velkas rapier for my int dex build
The grave Lord sword is balanced around being something you sprint to make the early game easy mode.
The Great Scythe is an S Tier weapon. There is no way arround it.
Y si, esa cosa es god
It is Stier un PvE . I dont think it is as good in PvP
Scythes in general are C tier in PvP.
Using Great scythe in PVP is asking for backstab
Sucks that you aren't able to be too active in making videos because the stuff you have made is by far the most informative DS1-related content available on TH-cam (unless the shitty algorithm is hiding a treasure trove of content from me). I'll be sure to keep my eye on your channel in case you do upload more, cuz this is good shit.
I might upload more here and there, there are several channels that make content that is of a far higher quality than mine though.
why not add a tier A + and B + to the list? I mean to better distribute weapons, but overall a really solid tier list
because as I mention in the video I didn't want too many tiers. Adding A+ and B+ would be the same as just adding more tiers and it was already long.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Btw, how much stats do you recommend for the giant blacksmith hammer? Is it ok to just go for 16 str or 27 str?
@@InMustafar Very late reply but the Giant Blacksmith Hammer with 27 strength is strong when 2handing and you wouldn't want to 1hand it too much. Its what I and other would refer to as a 'gouge' build weapon where someone dumps point into endurance and vitality for extra health or equip load in exchange for lower damage.
claymore
great club
handaxe
large club
manserpant
black knight greataxe
dark silver tracer
bandits knife
rapier
chaos blade
halberd
moonlight greatsword
demons spear
-----------
i think those are the s tiers and arguably more could be in there but those are 100% goated weapons in this games pvp. and how does any straight sword compete with these weapons?
Claymore has very high stat investment needed to reach its potential and is relatively slow and especially weak to shielding opponents and needs 2 hands to lower the strength investment required for optimal damage output.
Great club can only backstab and rolling attack generally speaking without being easily punished and is extremely heavy.
Hand axe capitalizes on latency via its speed and is otherwise low in damage output and range.
Large club is great club with less weight and less damage, another stat stick for bsing.
Man-serpent is slower than other weapons in its class and lower range and I don't think there is a case for this weapon in S tier.
Black knight Greataxe has high weight an excellent moveset but again 18 points in dexterity doesn't convey any other benefits, though I could see this weapon being high tier maybe top tier.
Dark Silver Tracer has one function with high stat investment required to perform that function and is otherwise not useful as a secondary weapon causing it to be outclassed.
Bandits knife as far as I am aware does not compete with the rapier or even the Dark Silver Tracer regarding a backstab weapon and doesn't share the range of the rapier or the superior moveset OR the armor penetration and higher base damage of the rapier and the bleed is negligible because you will have a hard time outdamaging most weapons when spamming or going 1 for 1 with other weapon's light attacks.
Rapier is exceptionally strong and belongs in S tier.
Chaos Blade also belongs in S tier.
Halberd's whiff animation actually matters in dark souls 1 so it has a hard time competing with other things because backstabs are so prevalent and swinging your weapon is risky and missing with a halberd is even worse than normal.
Moonlight Greatsword is S tier but honestly this one is a tough sell sometimes because not having dexterity means your pyromancy is slower.
Demon's spear is an S tier weapon but not as a primary unless you really commit to being a rat.
On the topic of straight swords. Straight swords are not underestimated by those who are aware of their very high damage output and excellent movesets. Even the humble longsword does a very significant amount of damage. The balder side sword does not require strength investment to see its damage output and has excellent range. It is held back by its sub-par backstab damage. However, the rapier is notable for making up for the lack of backstab damage of other primary weapons. I believe the Balder side sword is very high tier, you could argue that I put it in top tier due to bias but if you believe it belongs below A-tier then in my opinion you do not have experience with or against it. Its range and low stamina consumption offer freedoms that other weapons have a hard time emulating. In dark souls 1 stamina management and swing speed are both important if you ever want to do anything other than fish for backstabs. Balder side sword passes with flying colors with both a low swing speed and low stamina consumption allowing for defensive maneuvers more quickly and more plentifully than many of the weapons you would place in the same tier. It also has a usable heavy attack which is simply not true of most of the weapons in the entire game giving the player holding it more choices and forcing the player playing against it to be aware of the fact that they are in danger of being struck by a highly damaging strong attack even at distances that are unrivaled by some spears.
I am interested in why it is you think some weapons belong higher in the tier list. Particularly the Dark Silver Tracer and Bandit's Knife.
As a pvp player ds1, I think the tierlist is not totally fair because according to the SL or you pvp some weapons are very much more OP than others (by optimization) - expemple: sl10-15 Start class warrior, the famous gravelord sword not upgraded Stier easily and also darkhand,sl40 Anor londo (min maxing build) -Start class Bandit (48 vita lvl,just vita lvling nothing to all); armor (equip load 25% fast rolling) Mother mask, Havel glove, Holow soldier leg (35 poise), FAP and Hornet ring; (WL+15) chaos/lightning dagger+5(because 0.5 equip load) and smal leather shield+15 Simple and efficient. So to be more precise I think this tierlisttt is dedicated to pvp sl80-100/ sl120-125 meta*
: Sorry if my English is bad I use a translator x)
I think I mention at the beginning the specific soul level range. You are correct(ish) because things like the GLGS are stronger at lower level than at higher level but so is every weapon upgraded to +5 Chaos. Most of the weapons in this list are rated based on their movesets combined with damage output but almost everything one shots level 10's so in that sense all the strong movesets are just stronger. Also from level 10 to level 80 dragon form is busted. Effectively what you're saying isn't relevant because all the weapons that can be used at a high level can be used at a low level with a different upgrade path except for those with restrictive stat investment. Before you respond with "but using a chaos weapon against level 10's is twinking" consider that using the GLGS is also twinking and if you think there's a difference because you only make yourself significantly stronger than your opponent rather than being able to 1shot them with a single R1 I urge you to reconsider your current view of ethics and morality as it relates to twinking in a videogame.
My personal favorites are:
Large Club is A for me, both for gankers and duels. The R2s catch many people off guard even when I played it years after its release and the poison buildup is nice for applying pressure.
Obsidian GS is C on a normal build but B or A on a spellblade type build. More people than you think fall for the AOE despite it being telegraphed af.
Iaito is S for me. The 1H R2 almost always hits as a wakeup and is very rarely parried. My favorite dex weapon in the game.
Zweihänder is S tier against gankers. My most used weapon.
I'd swap Rapier and Estoc. Rapier is great as a backup weapon but is outclassed as a main weapon if you're not fishing for criticals. Estoc is better as a main weapon due to moveset versitility and reach.
I loved using great magic barrier in PvP because it absolutely shat on the MLGS, MLBH and everything mage related. Suprisingly few mage builds I encountered have a non-magic backup weapon because nobody thinks of the spell.
Replying in reverse order:
GMB is op against pure mage yup
rapier fits on nearly every build as a crit and shield poke option and it's fast so it is better overall than estoc imo
Zwei too slow against gankers and normals I would almost always prefer a katana
Modern dark souls and for many years prior optimal play against wakeup unless someone is oneshot hp is to parry buffer a backstab attempt or kick into parry buffer backstab mixup and that is unlikely to ever change
Obsidian sword is arguable B tier but not to me I think its pretty terrible if I remember correctly its the slowest greatsword and also the 2hr2 is backstab bait
Large club is similar to the zwei for me, good for fishing but you can't reliably swing it to cancel a backstab
Your opinions aren't wrong they are opinions, but as for greatclub and obsidian sword specifically those opinions are founded on oldschool burg duels and not SFCSpadesRPG with a flip spear.
I always struggle for pick between gargoyle halberd and regular halberd for my mid level invasion thst r1 are both good
gargoyle halberd as chaos or lightning actually does a lot of damage
@@ifmyfacewuzjello i know but i mean moveset, both are good
I'm new to DS1 and I just started using the great scythe and I'd really like to know why people despise it so much. All of the attacks are useful, the damage is good, and it's stupid fun.
It isn't actually bad but it is a little self defeating. It has a few things that are really nice about it like it causes bleed and has higher than average base damage and it can be buffed. The really unfortunate thing about the great scythe is just the attack speed. Being able to be buffed and having bleed damage are both qualities that scale with attack speed. It has two other unfortunate qualities. If you miss a swing with the great scythe there is an extended recovery animation which is dangerous. Also the 2HR2 causes your character to run forwards a short distance which effectively exposes your back. And for R1s vertical over the head swings are pretty much the worst attack style in the game. In PvE the weapon is very strong though still outclassed by other dexterity weapons. In PvP it is too dangerous for players who are playing well and trying to win.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Thank you for explaining so thoroughly. It is doing work in terms of pve, mostly because of the 2H R2s being what they are. The standing R1s are pretty trash now that you mention it (you can use them to hit crystal lizards though).
I've used the silver knight sword for most of my first playthrough because it was really easy to fully upgrade, and the R2s have a badass camera shake effect when you connect with them. I honestly wish it had something more going for it because it's probably my favorite weapon in the game so far.
Thanks for making the tier list, and all the rest of your content. I'm working on getting the gear and stats I need for a complete pvp build, and your channel has a lot of really helpful information. I'm trying not to spoil the game too much for myself but I also don't want to miss any useful pvp weapons so stuff like this is really helpful for looking up specific item locations.
You might have a hard time finding PvP nowadays, im not sure what the community looks like out there anymore but good luck to you. The silver knight sword is pretty cool I would also like it to be stronger. I plan to make build guides in the future, but my uploading schedule is inconsistent and the holidays are almost upon us so don't hold your breath. Thanks for the encouragement!@@hiondubs
What would be a typical SL125 longsword setup? My thought was like 50/60 vit and end, 30/30 str and dex and then 61 poise armor setup with FAP and leo using longsword +15 and a small leather shield. I've never used it before but would love to give it a shot with the right build around it
I normally don't mind midrolling with something like a longsword and 61 poise is a little hard to achieve without either midrolling or using havels over ring of favor. If you're willing to cut down to a lower poise then something like mmdks.com/bbto this build gives you fast pyros and no need for menu swapping between the rapier and longsword, plus a few extra stat points that you can put wherever to either maximize your stamina or get some extra health or whatever. If you're willing to midroll you can do things like mmdks.com/bbtp which gives up access to fast pyro (you can still get attunement slots by giving up the extra endurance if you want pyromancy on the build) or forces you to menu to swap between longsword and rapier but what it gives you in return is higher damage on your one handed R2 which is most of the reason to use a leo ring in a build like this anyways. It's much easier to critique a build and point out problems with it than it is to suggest a build because there are a lot of factors that go into what makes a build mesh well with a playstyle. If you are looking for SL125 with 61 poise and FaP+Damage ring and fastroll, I'm sorry to tell you that that just isn't practical. SL135 would give you the extra stats needed to get closer to that kind of a build but for even that to fastroll is asking a lot. Many people will just use havels over ring of favor for pretty much that reason.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Wow great write up, thanks a ton for this. I like that lower poise set up, I guess you could swap wolf ring in and out of place of leo if you absolutely needed some poise to squeeze by in a pinch. Definitely going to give these a shot, really appreciate all the advice!!
I just like weapons with bleed or poison effects in PvP cuz it can annoy my opponent. That's why I use Gravelord Sword, Lifehunt Scythe and Gold Tracer
It is definitely pretty annoying
This tier list is missing something.
If you do less of one damage type than the enemy's defense to it, your damage is lowered significantly.
Since 400-450 defense is common (Giant's Set), straight swords, split damage weapons and even katanas are not that great, unless your opponent has low defense (which is also common, giving a skewed view of these weapons).
This makes Greatswords (Bastard Sword, Claymore) S tier, since they have the perfect blend of speed, damage, range, moveset and weight.
With a special note on the Crystal Bastard Sword +5 being SS tier, since you can get an infinite amount of them, with 40 STR/DEX it does 577 damage one handed, a normal Zweihander +15 doing only 610 damage despite being much heavier and slower.
And I'll tell you why the Flamberge and all Curved Greatswords are worse than the Claymore, because their moveset doesn't use the full range of the weapon.
This is a pretty wild take, that being said I only have one substantial response to this. Giant's armor is present at most levels of play but this tier list wasn't mean to be solely for fight club pvp/summon duels. As far as armor and damage calculations in dark souls they are weird and could take up a whole video on their own.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello There is another reason why the Claymore is S tier.
Compare it with the Longsword, in this game it's hard to get even one hit in, the Longsword is shorter and weighs less, but it's slower than it looks and when a hit connects it doesn't stagger the opponent so he gets out of the way.
You end up doing just one weak hit.
Why just one? Because the Longsword has wide swings that take mooooore time to finish, unlike the compact swings of the Falchion and Gold Tracer (which can stunlock successfully, depending on the enemy's poise, of course).
Now for the Claymore, it requires 40 STR/DEX to unlock its potential just like the Longsword.
It has 524 AR instead of 408 and is deceptively faster than it looks, covers a wide area, it doesn't require you to get too close to the opponent and the thrusts can catch many off guard. It combos easily, staggers the opponent in around 2 hits, doing more damage on each one. Here the wider swings make sense since the sword has more reach, making the hits happen.
3-4 hits, a black flame and the fight is won.
Other pros of the Claymore: You don't want to trade hits with it even with a Falchion or Zweihander, you will get staggered first most likely. You will be more reluctant to parry it, since if you fail, it's more taxing.
@@kingofchaoss The 2h strong attack of the longsword actually has a fast recovery time and good reach and damage. You probably wont be able to convince me that the claymore is better than the longsword. Also I mention this in the video but most people who consider poise in their builds will have a minimum of 56 poise specifically because it stops the claymore from stunning and anyone in giants has more poise than this by default, so the faster swings of the longsword are more useful for avoiding being punished after being poised through. The claymore used to be very popular and I think that the crystal bastard sword is likely better than the claymore. They are both fine weapons in their own right but the longsword is a very very strong weapon.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello I wonder how deadly this would be, 586 AR two-handed Crystal Bastard Sword with Darkmoon Blade/Sunlight Blade.
@@kingofchaoss It will certainly do a lot of damage, 2-3 shotting most players. That's a lot of stat investment if you want the full damage output though.
How tf chaos blade beats iaito/uchigatana? Chaos blade have useless heavy attacks, while iaito can mess with timings and make your opponent miss all his parry/roll attempts. Also chaos blade cant be buffed. So how?
Its got best range if the 3, best damage on pure dex. R2 is Dark Souls 1 are garbage on most weapons. CB has kick>R1 which, for some reason, CB kick does 20 poise damage meaning it does 50 poise damage. Uchi and iaito are worse outside of weight. And if youre buffing, you should be using Falcion as its got an infinite stunlock allowing an OtK. Katanas favor hit and run in DkS.
Can't believe I haven't replied to this until now, sorry. This is a PvP weapons tier list. Buffs are notorious in PvP for being a sort of cheesy strategy that only work against less experienced players and the chaos blade is more consistent overall than any buffed katana. The primary competition to chaos blade is crystal uchigatana and while most people don't see a problem with using crystal weapons in PvP I think it is a bit scummy. The range of the chaos blade is superior and I believe the bleed buildup is also superior which are both impactful. Also the damage of the chaos blade is simply higher than the other katanas. The R2's of the iaito are also punishable and I believe the iaito is the shortest katana.
Anyway someone can contact you for more information / help with builds in dark souls games thanks :) really appreciated this video after replaying ds1
Nearly impossible to contact me to be honest, you're more than welcome to try whenever you want to though.
Personally i'd put Great club and zwei and murakumo in S tier, and bkga in a tier
Heavy weapons guy eh
My weapon I crafted and upgraded was the qualag fury sword.
Upto that point I had never been attacked by a Phantom.
The moment I got that sword, I was constantly invaded but one after the other, they fell.
Once I finished the game, months later on TH-cam, I found out that I could've been doing more damage if i had some humanity on me. 😂
I honestly think the large club is A tier because of the sweeping heavy attack.
That's a really interesting and rare opinion. I think wherever you put any BS stat stick is where almost all of them belong. Idk much about the sweeping attack though.
It is very delayed, but still very useful move that lunges very far with a lot of damage.
Have you ever PVP in DS1??
Boeeee, e su opinio tampoco llore
Yep
zweihander is a legendary weapon
I hate the zwei change my mind
@@ifmyfacewuzjello That mean… YOU DON‘T LIKE GIANT DAD?
I think this has to be like an elaborate troll, QFS is a complete piece of shit lmao. Any unique weapon with native split damage is garbo by default, you can't buff it, literally no reason to run it over a falchion or a gold tracer besides slightly bigger reach, which is sort of useless, because with curved swords you're gonna be fighting people close up anyway. I don't know what your experience with this game is, if you just started with the Remaster or if you actually played PTDE, but there is never a point you'd see someone who knew what they were doing with a QFS. The only people you'd see using it were the most awful of forest gankers fat rolling with a bunch of mismatched trashion with 2 phantoms backing them up.
Well first of all it isn't that elaborate, even if it was a troll. It seems like the biggest problem you have is with the qfs but the reach of qfs isn't "slightly bigger" its massive by comparison. Range is, in my opinion, one of the most important factors of a weapon in this game. A decent portion of the reason that I think BSS is so much better than longsword is the range. The range of the washing pole is actually "slightly bigger" than the other katanas at a significant damage cost especially when compared to the chaos blade because of the weird way the character attacks with it. You don't see almost anyone doing anything with buffs who knows what they're doing anyways because buffs are actually pretty terrible. Fights in dark souls often drag into the 5+ minute mark and buffs don't last even close to half that time forcing you to play a certain way and open yourself up to being punished. There absolutely was a period where qfs was fairly popular either on dex or gouge builds. The qfs sucks by comparison to a lot of weapons but its competition in the curved sword class is a bunch of mediocre garbage and one decent weapon. All the ultra greats are terrible too but I wasn't planning to just put all but four weapons in D or F tier just because katanas and spears exist. Every curved sword is Z tier when you put it up against flip spear in most of the arenas in the game. Also again with the split damage thing, split damage that is split 50/50 is absolutely terrible awful garbage but the QFS isn't split like other split weapons are. QFS is much closer to 80% fire damage which can suffer against a lot of sets but gets chip damage for free against a lot of shields and the range of the weapon is much much better than it looks especially at the edges. Would I put the qfs lower? Maybe, it kinda depends on what time period we are talking about but it really isn't as trash as you make it out to be. Most people who use the qfs don't actually have a clue what they're doing but I used to play on wireless so between the range and the strike speed it just ping diffs people sometimes, like the hatchet but not nearly as annoying and doesn't work as well on local wireless.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello Ok I can kinda see what you're saying but I'd still never say it's anywhere near genuine godtier shit like Claymore, Kumo, BSS, Chaos Blade, Demon Spear etc.
@@ifmyfacewuzjello And I dunno about fights lasting 5+ minutes, invasions sure if you fuck up your ambush or if you invade gankers who know what they're doing, but I don't think I had more than a handful of duels that lasted that long over my entire time playing this game.
It tends to be the case that the more invested players are in winning the longer a fight will last, in addition to rules around healing and other such things. A humanity enabled fight where both players won't accept a loss until their character is dead can drag on for quite awhile. 5 minutes might seem long and it probably is a bit longer than average. I'll respond to your other comment in this one too real quick. BSS Claymore CB and Uchi are all functionally far superior to QFS. That being said, the fact that you include demon spear here kind of gets at an important point when comparing weapons in dark souls. I would wager to say that in remastered I could beat even some very competent practiced players if they had a demon spear and I had an estoc. There is a lot that goes into weapon matchups in this game and certain weapons are extremely useful in their niche and not otherwise. A player who tries to use the demon spear exclusively will probably lose because they are using it "wrong". The rapier, bandits knife, demon spear, dark silver tracer, and others are all weapons that are A to S+ tier at what they do but outside of their comfort zone they range from underwhelming to seemingly useless. Those weapons are very different from QFS of course. Maybe I overvalue range and swing speed. However I've tried to make the washing pole work and felt like I really couldn't justify using it where I didn't feel the same about QFS and I've made a couple builds that are centered around it. It has major drawbacks but fortunately most of those are drawbacks that are also shared by the rest of the weapons in the curved sword class like, for instance, low critical damage. That means that the opportunity cost for using it instead of the falchion is lower (at least in regards to crit damage specifically) than if you were to compare it to almost any other weapon in the game. There is no shield in the game that can fully block the damage of QFS. And on top of this it still has dexterity scaling so dumping stats into dex for faster pyro doesn't feel like a waste as it does with a gouge build. Lastly, Dark Souls has many many weapons with strong attacks that are completely useless and or a danger to the user. The QFS is one of the few weapons in this game that doesn't suffer this issue. Hope this puts things in perspective a little bit. For reference even back in like whatever year it was idk 2015 or whatever the QFS was already practically nonexistent. It was only popular for a little while before the DLC dropped and a little while after if I remember correctly. @@ilikepotatoes1345
Black knight sword in c tier kinda hurts but it isn’t the best in ds1
absolutely destroys PvE though
@@ifmyfacewuzjello absolutely it’s the first weapon I used to beat the game
Zwei in S and CB in A LOL
Post the titanite is god, Tier C+
This comment confuses me greatly
had to turn on subtitles
bro you are pretty cool
you're pretty cool
Good video but it will be great if u do weapons in pve
ا
PvE is Full Havel, Great Shield of Artorias, and Iaito.
I can do this.
Pretty good video, and i agree with you 9/10 times, however the lip noise you make at the start of every sentence really grinds my nerves. Sorry i had to get it out. Otherwise all good! Cheers mate
I'm pretty sure its the fact that this was recorded with like off brand iphone earbuds or some garbage like that
"Shorthand" and in no particular order so you'd have to watch the whole thing. Pass.
it is ordered by weapon class you jebroni
Bad list. man serpent, great club , black knight axe,zweihander is S tier..
Bad opinion
I play long time , I haven't seen anyone playing balder side.
just because few people play it doesn't mean it isn't strong. Also man serpent and zwei were rarely played especially by people who are decent at the game. And black knight great axe hasn't been popular in like a decade.@@laszlovagi6775
@@ifmyfacewuzjellothats where you are wrong mate, at the sweatiest level this game is all about having hornet ring a high ar or crit weapon and circling for backstabs.
@@ifmyfacewuzjellostraight swords and spears are shit everybody knows how to parry that.
lol. What?
lol.... what?
very wrong tf is this
care to elaborate?
He won't @@ifmyfacewuzjello