So how does the power consumption work? coz I would've thought that generating extra frames on top of the native frames would actually use more power and temps as it has to work harder, seems backwards to me lol
because you're missing the point. Frames generated by the algorithm have a very low cost as they based themselves on the "real" in engine ones. When you lock to 160FPS using V-Sync for example, I believe that instead f using 110 base frames, the game will use around 80 FPS and then use FG to double them, hence the lower power draw
@@AncientGameplays ahh I see what u mean now, generating extra frames using the 'base' frames doesn't take as much power as creating the frames from scratch would use. Thanx for the extra help understanding, I've only been a pc user for a couple of years and still lots to learn. I mite start using fg when I upgrade my monitor, currently I use a 144hz display but want a higher refresh rate as I run a Ryzen 5900x with a Rx 7900 xtx which in most games I play I'm reaching over 144fps without any upscaling or fg so will be handy in the future. Thanx again 👍
I noticed this on my 2070s in re 3 remake. This was while comparing locked 60fps (vsync on) and FG 60/120 (vsync on), there was higher power draw than native 60fps but that got quickly overshadowed when running the game at native 120fps and higher. Personally I saw a reduction of 20w-45w, 45w reductions being when I ran the game at 180fps with FG sitting around 150w while native basically saw a match of fps to watts (180fps and 182w).
Agreed. I have an ITX build with a 3070 and it's a bit difficult to keep temps below 70ºC even when undervolted. Nowadays I cap single player games to 60 and use loseless scaling to max out my 144hz monitor and have low temps. What a time to be alive!
I have a RTX 3060 Ti GDDR6X with 3 fans and never saw my GPU going beyond 70 ºC. I have even overclocked it a bit, I guess it has almost the same power as the RTX 3070.
I recently bought something from Steam called Lossless Scaling, which uses a GPU agnostic post-processing version of resolution upscaling and frame generation. I bought it because my main gaming rig is down for the time being and while I (slowly) get that worked on, I've been playing on my handheld for the time being. Being able to play games I -never- thought would be playable on this thing at 60+ FPS has made me fall absolutely in love with the tech. This isn't as good, fast, optimal, or clean as large company frame generation and/or upscaling technology, but it works SO easily and with things that don't have any ACTUAL support for the technology that I don't see myself using anything else for a while. I was able to get FFXIV up to 60+ FPS, PoE to 130FPS in early areas, Elden Ring to 50 FPS. Killing Floor 2 at 90 FPS. It's just really made everything look so much smoother. The input latency I am getting used to, and maybe it's because it's an 8" display stretching things over a 2560x1600 display, but I never notice artifacting until it's on something that the software states it is bad at, such as when I am looking at texts or menus or typing in a chat.
experimented on my secondary rig. 7700 XT undervolted to 0.975v, used FSR3 Quality upscaling and frame gen in both ghost of tsushima and Forbidden west and capped the FPS to 120fps. Power usage on my 7700 XT stayed around 130 watts for the most part in ghost of tsushima and between 130 and 150 watts in Forbidden west. GPU fans barely ran at about 13% fan speed. LOL. Framegen and upscaling is a really nice way to get some high refresh rate gaming. And at the same time to get the power usage of the GPU down. Just like you said in your video
FG techniques has really been improved with time and in my case while, I was playing horizon forbidden west with in game motion blur disabled with fsr3 native aa istead of taa and with vsync on with fsr3 frame gen, it was really an enjoyable experience for me.
I can't express how thankful I am with content like this! Power Draw/Efficiency is very important for me, since electricity bills here in Brazil are getting more expensive each year... Keep creating content around Power Consumption in general, if possible 😁 Tamo junto Tuga, tu e o cara
It's only for High refresh rate monitors/TVs, while some people have 60hz 4K TV, and this is when Frame Generation is become useless. But in fact, can smooth out experience on 120+Hz displays, while maintaining lower TDP, Usage and lower temperature.
@@EdoXTensei All the problems of A.I. had been exaggerated by mainstream tech reviewers as a pushback against the 4090. All of this is 2022 FG data at 60fps. The A.I. especially Nvidia's should've gotten significantly better today. Just look for videos of The Rock eating rocks. - The 100-200 ms latency is the same as the modern console gaming experience. - The latency was judged using competitive standards while testing AAA single-player titles. - Freeze-framing a distorted image means FG was faulty 1/60 of the time. That's not how perception WORKS. - FG was being tested with RT maxed out. This means FG's real impact on areas like VRAM wasn't being isolated and measured. - Power Draw was criminally underrated, not by how it compares with other brands or old generations, savings per wattage, but by how it maintains performance when undervolted to 90%, 80%, 70%, or 60%. You get 80% performance by cutting the power draw in almost half. Compared to AMD that's having TWO GPUs. - Complaints about UI and HUD elements were fair back then. Thats about it.
After watching this Video, i find the sweet Spot for my 3080, Undervolting, Frame Cap and Upscaling. The Upscaling is sometimes more effective than Undervolting in saving Power.
I cap FPS to whataver limit i want for freesync or above depends on game and use FG. I already set TDp limit from 300W to 180W on my RX 6800XT, with tweaks to the SoC, memory voltages and i lose only 7% performance.
Efficiency is the way ! Undervolt/underclock and cap the frame rate/vsync/frame gen/FSR on is a great combo to reduce MASSIVELY the consumption/temp and noise ! Great video ! Always keep a beautifull hair ! Hi from France ! See you later !
Excellent video, thanks a lot! So FG will lower power consumption and give longer battery life on handheld pc's like the steamdeck and rog ally with lower fan noise!
9:18 Just a side note: RDNA 2 GPUs does not have proper Power Draw measurements. So, every time you see its Power Draw on Software, you can add +30w in general (unless you use external tools, like a Wattmeter on the wall)
I was gonna say "um akschually, the base framerate is so low, you're gonna feel it's stuttery" but... here I am on a 60FPS display, and your examples are all 60FPS or higher base framerate, so... it'd be smoother than what I'm used to even on the input smoothness based on the base FPS! This will be one more reason why GPU vendors should bump the lower-tier cards to 12GB or more. We need a bit more VRAM to run framegen, so if the game is close to maxing out VRAM, framegen will often will lower not raise FPS. And if GPU makers want to claim "4K ready"... yeah, that's using even more VRAM than 1440p or 1080p! Let alone Ray Tracing (also uses more VRAM...) if GPU makers want to claim all these spicy new technologies, they need to give us the video memory to fit it, or it's not gonna run smooth! But anyway. Thanks for the video. I can see in your examples that it's working pretty well even today.
Reporting on my experience with this concept. My target game is 7 days to die running at 1440p. The latest update of this game causes my 6800xt (Asus Tuf Gaming) to hit a hot spot temp of 95c. FPS are actually fine (>150 with 1% lows around 100fps), but the fan noise is annoying. So, in the drivers I cranked the power consumption to -15%, locked vsync to 144hz, and turned on FG. This allowed me to push all settings to ultra but hot spot temp stays under 76C, fan noises are much better, and the "real" fps hover around 100fps while the FrameGen has me at ~200fps, no stuttering and anti-lag makes it feel great. Thank you!
Framegeneration allows Raytracing on AMD GPUs to be actually playable...I played Marvels Spider-Man Remastered and Miles Morals with high raytracing settings on an RX 7800xt and was able to play on locked 144FPS due to my 144hz monitor....its pretty sick.
I also noticed this when I was playing The First Descendant few days ago. The game has FG settings when you enable AMD Upscaling. Turning FG on and Vsync on gives a lot more FPS but with lower GPU power draw and temps, and even if the game scene gets cluttered and fast motion is introduced, artifacting is barely noticeable, and the FPS doesn't go down as much.
After a while, I finally got to a point where I only upgrade my GPU if my favorite games cannot play smoothly at the refresh rate of the monitor it's hooked up to. I cap the framerate to match the monitor's refresh rate.
I recently started playing plague tale requiem, and my Vega 64 16gb seems to struggle at 1440p high, getting around 27/32 fps, but thanks to lossless scaling I was able to play at 56/63 fps the hole game, and even though the latency was higher, it is miles better than playing at 30 fps! Best purchase of 2024 thx lossless scaling 😅
I'm using afmf to bypass 60fps lock in games (mostly emus) and it's amazing, even if my monitor is a 72hz one i'm not noticing the input latency or the potentials artifacts while still being able to see the boost in fluidity, i recommend it to anyone that can benefit from it
Personally i use Lossless Scaling all the time now im a huge fan, artefact don't bother me at all (only dark scene have artefact), i only play solo game and input lag is really small in x3. I have a 120hz lg C3 4k. So i always set 40hz with Riva tuner then the x3 with Lossless Scaling for 120hz. Game Settings High/Ultra depend if it's useful or not and No FSR, because it's not needed im already at my max 120hz and with FSR image is ugly, i can clearly see the difference on my 42 inch monitor on chernobylite FSR 2.1 when i look text on a in game monitor. And for Lossless Scaling settings : scaling type OFF / Mode X3 LSFG 2.1 / Performance On / VSync on / Max Ref Rate / HDR sup On / Allow Tearing on / VRR sup on/ show fps / API DXGI or WGC if it don't work. to play in 4k it's perfect
I have to be honest, I just click in the video to see if you would have a discount code since I need a Win10 key for my new laptop arriving in a couple of days. Great video tho 😅
What I think a lot of people want to know is whether the older gen GPUs will be included with the implementation of the upcoming Frame Gen tech. (Also how to actually make it work on there GPUs would be good to know)
I've only just started to dabble with FG. In starfield, the newest title I own, my 6750xt now runs it on ultra at 1440p between 50 and 110 fps with no upscaling. No micro stutters now which really smooths out the gameply in the open environments. Also now the card only draws about 185 watts opposed to 250 before fsr3 was aviable. I had to run the card OC'D with power limit set to max with mostly high settings, now ultra is buttery smooth and draws 65 less watts with no OC.
i used the nvidia frame generation in the new game released a few weeks ago the first decendant and wow, nvidia did a super work, the game really feels like raster, and i didnt feel any input latency or something like that, i dont know why but that game uses nvidia reflex on + boost, that makes me feel the game super smooth and responsive, frame generation its the gaming future
@@AncientGameplays I think that i didn't explain very well, that i wanted to explain is that nvidia frame generation felt like if the game does not used any type of frame generation, like "raster" but i know the differences between raster and frame generation, i only want to explain my experience using nvidia frame generation with nvidia reflex on + boost
Fabio, as promised, watching the video right now (tonight) and gonna make a commentary comment as I progress. - Awesome content! - Is your monitor 160hz or 165hz? o-O The 165 is what most manufacturers of high refresh rate monitors make. - THIS IS THE WAY to save power and retain gaming performance and quality. The thing is, when the native performance is already over 100, be it at 1440 or 4K, the extra frames from frame generation will have an easier time to understand the 'pattern' of the natural flow of frames and generate frames of higher quality. But of course, the ceiling of the higher quality is where the native frame quality is. - There will still be ghosting, artifacting in between the generated frames even if the native frame rate is over a 100, but that is so hard to notice that if one wanted to seek them out, at thatpoint, they are on a fault-finding mission instead of enjoying the game. - I am not sure if this is a useless idea, but what if you are getting 165 fps and over (say average 200) but still enable FSR FG. Would that ALSO save power and instead of showing 165 native frames (v-sync on), show you many native and some fake frames? I'm confuses on this one. - It seems you've clock limited the XTX to 2400mhz? If so, love that. This actually keeps a grip on the stability because many driver timeouts happen BECAUSE of the unstable clock speed from the gpu. Unstable as in, needed more voltage but didn't get it either due to hard-limit or due to user-set limit. And, the power consumption at 99% also seems significantly less so it seems hella undervolted and for good reason. Overall, right under 10% performance loss might be there but the drop in temps and power consumption can be huge! - The 6750 XT example in this video is the best part and proves the point of this video. - Btw, are you regularly gaming with the preview driver which has the AFMF 2?
HI man! quick question! i dont like using vsync ingame! idk why but for me it feels weird in majority of games (less mouse response time-latency-etc).. so my question is..Do i have the same benefits if i disable vysinc ingame and only limit the fps (with ruvatuner or ingame) to (120) cause thats my max monitor refresh rate? or is better activate vysinc from amd adrenaline software? or maybe is better let that shit off and only activate "radeon enhanced sync"? or maybe the way is using lossles scaling frame gen+vysinc on - off(allowing tearing for best latency)? XD there are so many optiones these days that we do not know which is the best!! cuase maybe it depends of the game? idk^^
I think it’s a useful tool to have but I think some people misuse it, it’s best used to get you at or above 120. I see people using it to crank the settings on lower end cards to get to 60fps and I think that’s just abusing the technology. How I use it depends on the game and how much I prioritize higher fidelity settings. Sometimes I’d rather lower graphics settings than use FG.
Hey fabio! Great video and I’ve got a question, im on the edge between the 7900gre and the 4070super, i dont really know which one would give me better performance in microsoft flight simulator combined with the 7800x3d, do you know which one i should go for?
what overlay are you utilizing to give you all those stats? I ran into this chanel yesterday and i watched a video that made me subsctribe to this channel. thank you for the explanations on your channel.
5 seconds in and I'm already on the floor laughing. I'm 60 years old, been coding since the early nineties and NO I have NOT used voodoo magic before. lol But I'm here so, go on then, convince me. :P
Thanks for this info man.. but how do you draw the generated frame? is it in msi afterburner? or there are other apps you use to draw the generated frames? thanks once again.
First of all thank you for you hard work! :) But iam still a bit confused is it better to turn on v sync or just cap the frame rate to half of my monitor refresh rate? What will give me the lowest input letancy and best IQ?
Would you consider doing another video looking at Lossless Scaling's upscaling options? I have a GPD Win Max 2 with a 60 Hz screen that can't really benefit from the frame generation but it's a 1600p display on a 7840u, so I'm pretty interested in how well the integer scaling and other upscaling options work.
@@AncientGameplaysugh was the same for me. Took a couple of weeks to get all my stuff. Was living on a blow up bed for two weeks. Will be worth it when it's all there and you get settled in though
@@AdamNRG316 Gladly it is very close to my parent's house (where I currently am), like 3-4Km. The studio is looking good though, will be able to deliver better content with the new space (visually wise)
@@AncientGameplays when i think about it, Witcher 3 could have FG and among my "newest" games i have Nier:automata, Wolfenstein games and Tomb Raider trilogy i have a lot of low demanding indie games, for example Celeste that are waiting, and it would be wierd using FG or AFMF for games that i could most probably play in 360fps+ 🤣
My biggest issue with FG is probably a combination of my hardware causing it. I have a 1440p 144hz screen, and a 7900XTX, and it's just low enough refresh where the 7900XTX can always feel far better without FG than 144hz FG feels. I'm sure if it was a 240hz screen, or 4K, it would be far more usable. It effectively drops my frame rate to 72hz or so, and I usually lock to 90, or up to 120 in SP games. I'll probably jump to a 32" 4K OLED in the near future, and I can see it becoming more useful. I'm sure using a controller would make it more tolerable as well.
Hey Fabio, I had a question, might be a dumb one, but you wont know, if you dont ask. Now you mentioned Rivatuner, my question is, instead of using it or V-SYNC in game to cap frames to the monitors Hz rate, would using Chill and setting minimum to 140 and max to 140 (I've got a 3440x1440 144hz monitor) would that work? Since I assume if my 7900XTX is pushing well past 144fps minimums, just setting it to a locked frame rate of 140 both min and max, would that create the smoothest experience by just staying at a rock-solid frame rate? Or does Chill freak-out if you lock the min and max to the same value?
all am gonna say is framgen in horizon fw and ghost of tsushima and both spiderman games is actually more than enjoyable which is an amazing insight of what to come a world were all games have a good implementation of it is 🔥 shout out to amd for this masterpiece i have a 240 oled rivatuner locked 120 fps half my monitor refresh rate which feels smother than lets say 160 for example gsync off as well as vsync with nvedia reflex at on + boost the input delay is honestly negligible and it works perfectly fine no screen tearing at all maybe its my because the high refresh rate tho
And you can have an even lower power consumption with some undervolting. i got my rx 6800 from 200+ to 170w max and same fps, i also got one of my friends rx 6800 xt from 270w to 210w, its amazing how well you can undervolt amd
Even before your video about Lossless Scaling i was excited when AMD added AFMF to Adrenalin. I've recently build pc with R5 7500f and got a second hand RX 6800 for 1440p. Trying to replay my backlog of games that i missed while having low-end laptop. Dishonored 2, Shadow of Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition and God of War - they don't support latest upscaling/FG technologies, so my question is: in what scenarios should i use the Adrenalin AFMF and when to use Lossless Scaling's FG? Don't want to upscale, just to get 100-120 fps on my 240hz monitor.
AFMF are barely usable, it will stop working in every sudden movement. I believe Lossless Scaling provide both Upscaling and frame generation. In single player title I'd rather lock the fps and set maximum graphics.
I just undervolted my gpu and also overclocked. im using now around 180- 240 watt power and my cpu clock speed is stable 5400mhz undervolted to 1.22V. My GPU Temp in games 50+- cpu temp is 65+- before 78+- because summer my room is getting very hot Also i made my own fan speed curve for GPU and CPU fan speed i feel the difference :P
If you experience screen tearing with full screen when you have v-sync turned off. Make sure you enable borderless full screen so that you no longer get any cracks in your game
Hey Fabio, I have a question about recording gameplay with two monitors. My main monitor is a 1440p IPS panel (super colorful, really smooth at 144hz refresh rate) for playing games. My second monitor is a 1080p VA panel for running OBS. Since I record the gameplay on the IPS monitor, will the recordings still have good colors even though I use the VA monitor (colors aren't as good) to see OBS? Basically, I'm wondering if the monitor showing the game (IPS) affects the recording quality more than the monitor showing OBS (VA). Thanks!
@10:52 Do you have to use a third party app like RTSS to cap fps, or does using Chill in Adrenalin suffice? Curious if that would conflict w/ FSR FG being enabled
I cap my FPS in game most of the time and enabling vsync regardless of Frame Gen on/off so I never notice the power draw reduction. This is put a light on it.
Does the "AMD fluid motion frames - manual" feature in competitive games help to decrease input lag as well or is it something more visual the high fps?
this what i want to know more about upscaling how does it effect temp and power draw major channels miss this and how about tear down videos gamer nexuse use to do that now a day we dont know how GPU perform vendors wise thanks for update
I wish you did a try on Cod with Frame gen. I am on a 165hz monitor and I ave 135 on avg. I was thinking about turn on DLSS and frame gen and cap fps at 163 to full usage my monitor. But I am afraid to the latency. Have u measured the latency in some ways after enabling FG ?
that's very interesting to see in ghost of tsushima, i had 163 fps on max with some useless settings like motion blur and depth of field disabled(if there's one because i don't remember) in thar area with 4090 and 7800X3D, personally with AMD's frame gen just by itself i had 230fps without FSR because i didn't like it, somehow the AMD one is better than the NVIDIA one in the frame gen area however AMD had lower lows in fps than nvidia but i ended up sticking with amd frame gen since i prefer smoothness in my games as i use a 180hz monitor
In some Games fg works for me really good with low base fps like 45 fps. (Avatar, ratchet and Clank) And you can combine fsr3.1 fg with chill. Nobody noticed?
@AncientGameplays i have had a 7900xt for a while now (5 months) my pc builders were concerned over the 850psu not being enough potentially, they said it seemed to work so no need for upgrade, however when playing stuff like halo infinite, when i would even so much as try to overclock the GPU for a little more performance as following your videos on the subject, it usually leads to instability and risking freezing, thus leaving my team in a 3v4 in ranked or private 8's, would this be due to my GPU needing more juice that my 850W PSU cant provide mid game, or is it something else. it just feels like i cant reliably overclock my PSU even conservatively. would love a video on this or some way to find out what may have caused a complete freeze of the PC. for example a way to see how many Watts the PSU is asking for at any given moment before instability occurs.
Lol, If I have 60 FPS without frame gen, then I don't need frame gen, I have purposefully not spoilt myself by gaming at more than 60FPS. Can't say same out resolution though, love gaming at 1440P on my Rx6700XT, hate it when I am forced to go down to 1080P, but FSR to the rescue on most games these days, so it's not that bad.
You can do this without v-sync and without RTTS Frame Limit which from my testing sometimes (in some games) work strange and can increase GPU power consumption (on Nvidia gpus) or increase input lag by a lot when using RTTS Frame Limit (Reflex method). I have Freesync/G-sync 144 Hz monitor and ideal fps for me is 100-120. Anything above that is not needed for me. And I think the most efficient way is what I found but I only tested this on RTX 4090. So, I enable DLSS upscale then I enable FSR 3 FG (prefer this one) or DLSS FG and lets say I have 180 fps after that which is way above what is needed for me. Then I just open MSI Afterburner and reduce POWER LIMIT until my fps in game starts to fall in 120 fps zone. This way I sometimes play at 4K100-130 fps with only 130-200W power consumption on RTX 4090 and this way you play without v-sync which is not needed when you have Freesync monitor and when FPS below it max HZ. When using this method my GPU temp at only around 50°C and OC 7500f @ 5.2 Ghz is only 50-55°C which leads to very quiet PC and super low power consumption and gaming is silky smooth.
So how does the power consumption work? coz I would've thought that generating extra frames on top of the native frames would actually use more power and temps as it has to work harder, seems backwards to me lol
because you're missing the point. Frames generated by the algorithm have a very low cost as they based themselves on the "real" in engine ones. When you lock to 160FPS using V-Sync for example, I believe that instead f using 110 base frames, the game will use around 80 FPS and then use FG to double them, hence the lower power draw
@@AncientGameplays ahh I see what u mean now, generating extra frames using the 'base' frames doesn't take as much power as creating the frames from scratch would use. Thanx for the extra help understanding, I've only been a pc user for a couple of years and still lots to learn. I mite start using fg when I upgrade my monitor, currently I use a 144hz display but want a higher refresh rate as I run a Ryzen 5900x with a Rx 7900 xtx which in most games I play I'm reaching over 144fps without any upscaling or fg so will be handy in the future. Thanx again 👍
I noticed this on my 2070s in re 3 remake.
This was while comparing locked 60fps (vsync on) and FG 60/120 (vsync on), there was higher power draw than native 60fps but that got quickly overshadowed when running the game at native 120fps and higher.
Personally I saw a reduction of 20w-45w, 45w reductions being when I ran the game at 180fps with FG sitting around 150w while native basically saw a match of fps to watts (180fps and 182w).
@@acetuned5242 Nice Rig bro!!!
@@adammartin4906 Thanx dude
Great for summer if you don't have air conditioner. Heating up your room and sweting hard is no bueno
Agreed. I have an ITX build with a 3070 and it's a bit difficult to keep temps below 70ºC even when undervolted. Nowadays I cap single player games to 60 and use loseless scaling to max out my 144hz monitor and have low temps. What a time to be alive!
Why itx with so powerfull component?
I have a RTX 3060 Ti GDDR6X with 3 fans and never saw my GPU going beyond 70 ºC. I have even overclocked it a bit, I guess it has almost the same power as the RTX 3070.
I recently bought something from Steam called Lossless Scaling, which uses a GPU agnostic post-processing version of resolution upscaling and frame generation. I bought it because my main gaming rig is down for the time being and while I (slowly) get that worked on, I've been playing on my handheld for the time being. Being able to play games I -never- thought would be playable on this thing at 60+ FPS has made me fall absolutely in love with the tech. This isn't as good, fast, optimal, or clean as large company frame generation and/or upscaling technology, but it works SO easily and with things that don't have any ACTUAL support for the technology that I don't see myself using anything else for a while.
I was able to get FFXIV up to 60+ FPS, PoE to 130FPS in early areas, Elden Ring to 50 FPS. Killing Floor 2 at 90 FPS. It's just really made everything look so much smoother. The input latency I am getting used to, and maybe it's because it's an 8" display stretching things over a 2560x1600 display, but I never notice artifacting until it's on something that the software states it is bad at, such as when I am looking at texts or menus or typing in a chat.
th-cam.com/video/BGKQougp4AE/w-d-xo.html
I use lossless scaling frame generation to lower my rtx 3070 power consumption. works great
exactly, you lock the FPS lower and then double the FPS
@@AncientGameplaysnope, triple the frame!!!! 🔥
@@ravenger2445shit bro can it be used with igpu and a dedicated GPU
@@Sujal-ow7cj It can, but the iGPU needs to be powerful enough.
It is like 7e.. Try it
experimented on my secondary rig. 7700 XT undervolted to 0.975v, used FSR3 Quality upscaling and frame gen in both ghost of tsushima and Forbidden west and capped the FPS to 120fps. Power usage on my 7700 XT stayed around 130 watts for the most part in ghost of tsushima and between 130 and 150 watts in Forbidden west. GPU fans barely ran at about 13% fan speed. LOL. Framegen and upscaling is a really nice way to get some high refresh rate gaming. And at the same time to get the power usage of the GPU down. Just like you said in your video
The Ray Tracing on those Aviator shades in the intro was amazing!!! The tech has come a LONG way. No FPS drop... at all. 😊
this was all AI, or so AI wished haha
Fabio has the same computer I built for my son as a graduation present! Nice!
FG techniques has really been improved with time and in my case while, I was playing horizon forbidden west with in game motion blur disabled with fsr3 native aa istead of taa and with vsync on with fsr3 frame gen, it was really an enjoyable experience for me.
Yes, I should mention that motion blur must be disabled with FG too
@@AncientGameplays Its okaybro we are humans and we make mistakes and that's the part of our life.
I can't express how thankful I am with content like this! Power Draw/Efficiency is very important for me, since electricity bills here in Brazil are getting more expensive each year...
Keep creating content around Power Consumption in general, if possible 😁
Tamo junto Tuga, tu e o cara
Thank you. Um abraço grande para o Brasil!
It's only for High refresh rate monitors/TVs, while some people have 60hz 4K TV, and this is when Frame Generation is become useless.
But in fact, can smooth out experience on 120+Hz displays, while maintaining lower TDP, Usage and lower temperature.
Exactly
No 60hz benefit from it as well... due to improving 1% lows and 0.1% lows.
@@mosesdavid5536 But the input latency on 60hz is also too much noticeable.
@@EdoXTensei All the problems of A.I. had been exaggerated by mainstream tech reviewers as a pushback against the 4090.
All of this is 2022 FG data at 60fps. The A.I. especially Nvidia's should've gotten significantly better today.
Just look for videos of The Rock eating rocks.
- The 100-200 ms latency is the same as the modern console gaming experience.
- The latency was judged using competitive standards while testing AAA single-player titles.
- Freeze-framing a distorted image means FG was faulty 1/60 of the time. That's not how perception WORKS.
- FG was being tested with RT maxed out. This means FG's real impact on areas like VRAM wasn't being isolated and measured.
- Power Draw was criminally underrated, not by how it compares with other brands or old generations, savings per wattage, but by how it maintains performance when undervolted to 90%, 80%, 70%, or 60%. You get 80% performance by cutting the power draw in almost half.
Compared to AMD that's having TWO GPUs.
- Complaints about UI and HUD elements were fair back then. Thats about it.
@@EdoXTensei unlock it
Thank you for the visual lesson, I see the logic in this!!
Thank you
Thank you I have learned so much from you since I got my pc 🙏🏻
Great !
After watching this Video, i find the sweet Spot for my 3080, Undervolting, Frame Cap and Upscaling. The Upscaling is sometimes more effective than Undervolting in saving Power.
Thanks for showing and explaining how it work. I really like your guide and tutorial videos. Greetings
Do you use Frame Generation this way? Or do you push the most FPS you can?
If I can play above 60 fps without any drops, I don't need to open it.
i use it for any non fps games if it works
I cap FPS to whataver limit i want for freesync or above depends on game and use FG. I already set TDp limit from 300W to 180W on my RX 6800XT, with tweaks to the SoC, memory voltages and i lose only 7% performance.
I push the most FPS I can cause I don't like how Frame Generation sometimes has laggy/ ghosting artifacts.
@@TerutoGK well, as stated, these are for people with high refresh rate monitors (which are common nowadays)
My man Fabio in a sunny day gets his shades on and start recording, this way he can share with us the level of beauty he's enjoying
This is a real gamer channel. Thanks Fabio!! 🙏🙏
Thanks 💪
I also noticed something with LOSSLESS SCALING FG, the image quality is much better with capped fps instead of uncapped
that's because you have more stability
@@AncientGameplays true bro
Capping fps is always the way to go. Much better experience with steady frametimes and lower powerdraw 👍.
One of the most beautiful cats I've ever seen.
We will be with you when you hit 1 Million subs! Keep it up you are best!
Hope so!
Efficiency is the way ! Undervolt/underclock and cap the frame rate/vsync/frame gen/FSR on is a great combo to reduce MASSIVELY the consumption/temp and noise ! Great video ! Always keep a beautifull hair ! Hi from France ! See you later !
This is why FSR FG is great.
Especially on low end hardware.
Cute cat. Thanks for the video on FG. I should try my own FG game fps tests. Assuming it works on a rx 480.
1:17 was funny af bro that was good bit
Excellent video, thanks a lot! So FG will lower power consumption and give longer battery life on handheld pc's like the steamdeck and rog ally with lower fan noise!
Your kitty looks similar to my boy 😻 cheers for the video always bro
Conteúdo diferenciado, meu amigo!
cool shades, hommie.
9:18 Just a side note: RDNA 2 GPUs does not have proper Power Draw measurements. So, every time you see its Power Draw on Software, you can add +30w in general (unless you use external tools, like a Wattmeter on the wall)
that's because it counts the core power alone
I was gonna say "um akschually, the base framerate is so low, you're gonna feel it's stuttery" but... here I am on a 60FPS display, and your examples are all 60FPS or higher base framerate, so... it'd be smoother than what I'm used to even on the input smoothness based on the base FPS!
This will be one more reason why GPU vendors should bump the lower-tier cards to 12GB or more. We need a bit more VRAM to run framegen, so if the game is close to maxing out VRAM, framegen will often will lower not raise FPS. And if GPU makers want to claim "4K ready"... yeah, that's using even more VRAM than 1440p or 1080p! Let alone Ray Tracing (also uses more VRAM...) if GPU makers want to claim all these spicy new technologies, they need to give us the video memory to fit it, or it's not gonna run smooth!
But anyway. Thanks for the video. I can see in your examples that it's working pretty well even today.
Reporting on my experience with this concept. My target game is 7 days to die running at 1440p. The latest update of this game causes my 6800xt (Asus Tuf Gaming) to hit a hot spot temp of 95c. FPS are actually fine (>150 with 1% lows around 100fps), but the fan noise is annoying. So, in the drivers I cranked the power consumption to -15%, locked vsync to 144hz, and turned on FG. This allowed me to push all settings to ultra but hot spot temp stays under 76C, fan noises are much better, and the "real" fps hover around 100fps while the FrameGen has me at ~200fps, no stuttering and anti-lag makes it feel great. Thank you!
Framegeneration allows Raytracing on AMD GPUs to be actually playable...I played Marvels Spider-Man Remastered and Miles Morals with high raytracing settings on an RX 7800xt and was able to play on locked 144FPS due to my 144hz monitor....its pretty sick.
RT on that game is very CPU and ram intensive
I also noticed this when I was playing The First Descendant few days ago. The game has FG settings when you enable AMD Upscaling. Turning FG on and Vsync on gives a lot more FPS but with lower GPU power draw and temps, and even if the game scene gets cluttered and fast motion is introduced, artifacting is barely noticeable, and the FPS doesn't go down as much.
AG is crushing it with these videos!
Thank youuuu!! Now I know when my CPU is 100% used I must not use frame gen probably and even because my monitor is 60 Hz. :)
in that case locking frames will ALWAYS help
@@AncientGameplays Thanks!
good technology in conjunction with a high-Hertz monitor
After a while, I finally got to a point where I only upgrade my GPU if my favorite games cannot play smoothly at the refresh rate of the monitor it's hooked up to. I cap the framerate to match the monitor's refresh rate.
I recently started playing plague tale requiem, and my Vega 64 16gb seems to struggle at 1440p high, getting around 27/32 fps, but thanks to lossless scaling I was able to play at 56/63 fps the hole game, and even though the latency was higher, it is miles better than playing at 30 fps! Best purchase of 2024 thx lossless scaling 😅
Gotta give this a try
bro ur glasses so good
Thank you. Subscription earned.
I'm using afmf to bypass 60fps lock in games (mostly emus) and it's amazing, even if my monitor is a 72hz one i'm not noticing the input latency or the potentials artifacts while still being able to see the boost in fluidity, i recommend it to anyone that can benefit from it
Personally i use Lossless Scaling all the time now im a huge fan, artefact don't bother me at all (only dark scene have artefact), i only play solo game and input lag is really small in x3.
I have a 120hz lg C3 4k.
So i always set 40hz with Riva tuner then the x3 with Lossless Scaling for 120hz.
Game Settings High/Ultra depend if it's useful or not and No FSR, because it's not needed im already at my max 120hz and with FSR image is ugly, i can clearly see the difference on my 42 inch monitor on chernobylite FSR 2.1 when i look text on a in game monitor.
And for Lossless Scaling settings : scaling type OFF / Mode X3 LSFG 2.1 / Performance On / VSync on / Max Ref Rate / HDR sup On / Allow Tearing on / VRR sup on/ show fps / API DXGI or WGC if it don't work.
to play in 4k it's perfect
Thank you again!! ❤
I have to be honest, I just click in the video to see if you would have a discount code since I need a Win10 key for my new laptop arriving in a couple of days. Great video tho 😅
Thank you for watching ans for getting a key hehe
How come the CPU is at 69°C and you don't say nice?
What I think a lot of people want to know is whether the older gen GPUs will be included with the implementation of the upcoming Frame Gen tech.
(Also how to actually make it work on there GPUs would be good to know)
I've only just started to dabble with FG. In starfield, the newest title I own, my 6750xt now runs it on ultra at 1440p between 50 and 110 fps with no upscaling. No micro stutters now which really smooths out the gameply in the open environments. Also now the card only draws about 185 watts opposed to 250 before fsr3 was aviable. I had to run the card OC'D with power limit set to max with mostly high settings, now ultra is buttery smooth and draws 65 less watts with no OC.
i used the nvidia frame generation in the new game released a few weeks ago the first decendant and wow, nvidia did a super work, the game really feels like raster, and i didnt feel any input latency or something like that, i dont know why but that game uses nvidia reflex on + boost, that makes me feel the game super smooth and responsive, frame generation its the gaming future
raster has nothing to do with frame gen mate, don't mix things up
@@AncientGameplays I think that i didn't explain very well, that i wanted to explain is that nvidia frame generation felt like if the game does not used any type of frame generation, like "raster" but i know the differences between raster and frame generation, i only want to explain my experience using nvidia frame generation with nvidia reflex on + boost
Fabio, as promised, watching the video right now (tonight) and gonna make a commentary comment as I progress.
- Awesome content!
- Is your monitor 160hz or 165hz? o-O The 165 is what most manufacturers of high refresh rate monitors make.
- THIS IS THE WAY to save power and retain gaming performance and quality. The thing is, when the native performance is already over 100, be it at 1440 or 4K, the extra frames from frame generation will have an easier time to understand the 'pattern' of the natural flow of frames and generate frames of higher quality. But of course, the ceiling of the higher quality is where the native frame quality is.
- There will still be ghosting, artifacting in between the generated frames even if the native frame rate is over a 100, but that is so hard to notice that if one wanted to seek them out, at thatpoint, they are on a fault-finding mission instead of enjoying the game.
- I am not sure if this is a useless idea, but what if you are getting 165 fps and over (say average 200) but still enable FSR FG. Would that ALSO save power and instead of showing 165 native frames (v-sync on), show you many native and some fake frames? I'm confuses on this one.
- It seems you've clock limited the XTX to 2400mhz? If so, love that. This actually keeps a grip on the stability because many driver timeouts happen BECAUSE of the unstable clock speed from the gpu. Unstable as in, needed more voltage but didn't get it either due to hard-limit or due to user-set limit. And, the power consumption at 99% also seems significantly less so it seems hella undervolted and for good reason. Overall, right under 10% performance loss might be there but the drop in temps and power consumption can be huge!
- The 6750 XT example in this video is the best part and proves the point of this video.
- Btw, are you regularly gaming with the preview driver which has the AFMF 2?
Basically you got it all haha
those are some nice glasses where can i get some!
RayBan ones
HI man! quick question! i dont like using vsync ingame! idk why but for me it feels weird in majority of games (less mouse response time-latency-etc).. so my question is..Do i have the same benefits if i disable vysinc ingame and only limit the fps (with ruvatuner or ingame) to (120) cause thats my max monitor refresh rate? or is better activate vysinc from amd adrenaline software? or maybe is better let that shit off and only activate "radeon enhanced sync"? or maybe the way is using lossles scaling frame gen+vysinc on - off(allowing tearing for best latency)? XD there are so many optiones these days that we do not know which is the best!! cuase maybe it depends of the game? idk^^
I think it’s a useful tool to have but I think some people misuse it, it’s best used to get you at or above 120. I see people using it to crank the settings on lower end cards to get to 60fps and I think that’s just abusing the technology. How I use it depends on the game and how much I prioritize higher fidelity settings. Sometimes I’d rather lower graphics settings than use FG.
Hey fabio! Great video and I’ve got a question, im on the edge between the 7900gre and the 4070super, i dont really know which one would give me better performance in microsoft flight simulator combined with the 7800x3d, do you know which one i should go for?
Watch my 7900gre vs 4070 super video 💪
what overlay are you utilizing to give you all those stats? I ran into this chanel yesterday and i watched a video that made me subsctribe to this channel. thank you for the explanations on your channel.
Thank you ❤
5 seconds in and I'm already on the floor laughing.
I'm 60 years old, been coding since the early nineties and NO I have NOT used voodoo magic before. lol
But I'm here so, go on then, convince me. :P
Thanks haha
Thanks for this info man.. but how do you draw the generated frame? is it in msi afterburner? or there are other apps you use to draw the generated frames? thanks once again.
No man, it is FSR3 Frame generation or NVIDIA DLSS Frame Generation. Haven't you used them before?
i mean how do you show your the fps while frame gen is on.. i use MSI AB but it only shows the current fps not the fps while frame gen is on.
i miss times when you just insert the cartridge into a pegasus .. and play ... just play .....
First of all thank you for you hard work! :)
But iam still a bit confused is it better to turn on v sync or just cap the frame rate to half of my monitor refresh rate? What will give me the lowest input letancy and best IQ?
the best technology ever created even better than upscaling
thanks for sharing your opinion
Prolly an odd question, but does GvG have other things becide Windows keys? Like maybe creative software and stuff.
They do have other software, depending on the season
Would you consider doing another video looking at Lossless Scaling's upscaling options? I have a GPD Win Max 2 with a 60 Hz screen that can't really benefit from the frame generation but it's a 1600p display on a 7840u, so I'm pretty interested in how well the integer scaling and other upscaling options work.
Hope the move is going/gone well dude. Moved a few years ago and fucking hell is it stressful.
Yeah, still waiting for the studio to get done sadly...2 or 3 more weeks to move I believe
@@AncientGameplaysugh was the same for me. Took a couple of weeks to get all my stuff. Was living on a blow up bed for two weeks. Will be worth it when it's all there and you get settled in though
@@AdamNRG316 Gladly it is very close to my parent's house (where I currently am), like 3-4Km. The studio is looking good though, will be able to deliver better content with the new space (visually wise)
@@AncientGameplayslooking forward to seeing it man. Hope the rest goes through as stress free as it can.
Quite helpful.
Thank you
Thank you for not writing "Quiet helpful."
@GrainGrown Typing on these tiny gadgets is quite cumbersome. I'm surprised I didn't.
HA, jokes on you Fabio, i've never used FG, i most probably don't even own any game that has it and my backlog is enormous, lol
there are literally dozens if not hundreds of games with FG now, and you have AFMF and lossless scaling
@@AncientGameplays when i think about it, Witcher 3 could have FG and among my "newest" games i have Nier:automata, Wolfenstein games and Tomb Raider trilogy i have a lot of low demanding indie games, for example Celeste that are waiting, and it would be wierd using FG or AFMF for games that i could most probably play in 360fps+ 🤣
Exact reason I want 240hz display!!
My biggest issue with FG is probably a combination of my hardware causing it. I have a 1440p 144hz screen, and a 7900XTX, and it's just low enough refresh where the 7900XTX can always feel far better without FG than 144hz FG feels. I'm sure if it was a 240hz screen, or 4K, it would be far more usable. It effectively drops my frame rate to 72hz or so, and I usually lock to 90, or up to 120 in SP games. I'll probably jump to a 32" 4K OLED in the near future, and I can see it becoming more useful. I'm sure using a controller would make it more tolerable as well.
Hey Fabio, I had a question, might be a dumb one, but you wont know, if you dont ask.
Now you mentioned Rivatuner, my question is, instead of using it or V-SYNC in game to cap frames to the monitors Hz rate, would using Chill and setting minimum to 140 and max to 140 (I've got a 3440x1440 144hz monitor) would that work? Since I assume if my 7900XTX is pushing well past 144fps minimums, just setting it to a locked frame rate of 140 both min and max, would that create the smoothest experience by just staying at a rock-solid frame rate? Or does Chill freak-out if you lock the min and max to the same value?
Hey Fabio, can you maybe share your RivaTuner Config? I can't get it to work like yours, mine always looks very crammed and disorganized...
Yeah, that would be cool
cool glasses bro 🙂
Thanks :D
they are RTX ON glasses :D
all am gonna say is framgen in horizon fw and ghost of tsushima and both spiderman games is actually more than enjoyable
which is an amazing insight of what to come
a world were all games have a good implementation of it is 🔥
shout out to amd for this masterpiece
i have a 240 oled rivatuner locked 120 fps half my monitor refresh rate which feels smother than lets say 160 for example gsync off as well as vsync with nvedia reflex at on + boost the input delay is honestly negligible and it works perfectly fine no screen tearing at all maybe its my because the high refresh rate tho
And you can have an even lower power consumption with some undervolting. i got my rx 6800 from 200+ to 170w max and same fps, i also got one of my friends rx 6800 xt from 270w to 210w, its amazing how well you can undervolt amd
Yeah, but that's not the point of the video haha
Even before your video about Lossless Scaling i was excited when AMD added AFMF to Adrenalin. I've recently build pc with R5 7500f and got a second hand RX 6800 for 1440p. Trying to replay my backlog of games that i missed while having low-end laptop. Dishonored 2, Shadow of Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition and God of War - they don't support latest upscaling/FG technologies, so my question is: in what scenarios should i use the Adrenalin AFMF and when to use Lossless Scaling's FG? Don't want to upscale, just to get 100-120 fps on my 240hz monitor.
AFMF are barely usable, it will stop working in every sudden movement.
I believe Lossless Scaling provide both Upscaling and frame generation.
In single player title I'd rather lock the fps and set maximum graphics.
I just undervolted my gpu and also overclocked. im using now around 180- 240 watt power and my cpu clock speed is stable 5400mhz undervolted to 1.22V.
My GPU Temp in games 50+- cpu temp is 65+- before 78+- because summer my room is getting very hot
Also i made my own fan speed curve for GPU and CPU fan speed i feel the difference :P
Great video. Game name in 0:55 ?
desordre
I use Frame Generation to achieve 144+ fps and get more smoothness experience on my 165hz monitor.
If you experience screen tearing with full screen when you have v-sync turned off. Make sure you enable borderless full screen so that you no longer get any cracks in your game
that's not how it works though. Anything over your refresh rate will tear
RTX off and on meme hahah love it🤣😁
🤣🤣🤌
Hey Fabio,
I have a question about recording gameplay with two monitors. My main monitor is a 1440p IPS panel (super colorful, really smooth at 144hz refresh rate) for playing games. My second monitor is a 1080p VA panel for running OBS.
Since I record the gameplay on the IPS monitor, will the recordings still have good colors even though I use the VA monitor (colors aren't as good) to see OBS? Basically, I'm wondering if the monitor showing the game (IPS) affects the recording quality more than the monitor showing OBS (VA).
Thanks!
Are you gonna get some of Ryzen 9000 chips?
I believe so 💪💪💪
The sink is in frame because he's telling you to "let this sink in, fools!" 😄
Does RTSS frame limiting work better than using the Radeom Chill and setting both the min/max FPS to 120?
Radeon chill doesn't work with FSR3 FG, not AFMF ( yet ;) )
@10:52 Do you have to use a third party app like RTSS to cap fps, or does using Chill in Adrenalin suffice? Curious if that would conflict w/ FSR FG being enabled
Chill doesn't work yet, at least from what I know. FRTC will work I believe (also inside the Radeon software)
I cap my FPS in game most of the time and enabling vsync regardless of Frame Gen on/off so I never notice the power draw reduction. This is put a light on it.
What software are you using for the real time stats?
MSI afterburner
Does the "AMD fluid motion frames - manual" feature in competitive games help to decrease input lag as well or is it something more visual the high fps?
no, FG adds input lag, doesn't decrease dude
this what i want to know more about upscaling how does it effect temp and power draw major channels miss this and how about tear down videos gamer nexuse use to do that now a day we dont know how GPU perform vendors wise thanks for update
I wish you did a try on Cod with Frame gen. I am on a 165hz monitor and I ave 135 on avg. I was thinking about turn on DLSS and frame gen and cap fps at 163 to full usage my monitor. But I am afraid to the latency. Have u measured the latency in some ways after enabling FG ?
Fg is mostly for people with 240Hz if we're talking about shooters IMO, because of the added latency
@@AncientGameplays thank you for your reply man. I was thinking about low end gaming pc. I will do some test and try. Thank you
thanks
May u make a VR problems video about AMD drivers?
What's the name of your monitoring tool and how did you set it up like that
msi afterburner
@@AncientGameplays thank you Jared Leto
that's very interesting to see in ghost of tsushima, i had 163 fps on max with some useless settings like motion blur and depth of field disabled(if there's one because i don't remember) in thar area with 4090 and 7800X3D, personally with AMD's frame gen just by itself i had 230fps without FSR because i didn't like it, somehow the AMD one is better than the NVIDIA one in the frame gen area however AMD had lower lows in fps than nvidia but i ended up sticking with amd frame gen since i prefer smoothness in my games as i use a 180hz monitor
It had lower 1% lows because NVIDIA doesn't optimize for AMD's FG of course haha
Kitteh!
In some Games fg works for me really good with low base fps like 45 fps. (Avatar, ratchet and Clank) And you can combine fsr3.1 fg with chill. Nobody noticed?
@AncientGameplays i have had a 7900xt for a while now (5 months) my pc builders were concerned over the 850psu not being enough potentially, they said it seemed to work so no need for upgrade, however when playing stuff like halo infinite, when i would even so much as try to overclock the GPU for a little more performance as following your videos on the subject, it usually leads to instability and risking freezing, thus leaving my team in a 3v4 in ranked or private 8's, would this be due to my GPU needing more juice that my 850W PSU cant provide mid game, or is it something else. it just feels like i cant reliably overclock my PSU even conservatively. would love a video on this or some way to find out what may have caused a complete freeze of the PC. for example a way to see how many Watts the PSU is asking for at any given moment before instability occurs.
sometimes the wattage isn't the issue, but the current. I use a 750W gold PSU from corsair and I NEVER had issues, because it is a GOOD psu
Fabiolous as usual.
Lol, If I have 60 FPS without frame gen, then I don't need frame gen, I have purposefully not spoilt myself by gaming at more than 60FPS. Can't say same out resolution though, love gaming at 1440P on my Rx6700XT, hate it when I am forced to go down to 1080P, but FSR to the rescue on most games these days, so it's not that bad.
Yeah, because you're not used to it
@@AncientGameplays I 100% agree, but it makes the entire technology useless for me.
You can do this without v-sync and without RTTS Frame Limit which from my testing sometimes (in some games) work strange and can increase GPU power consumption (on Nvidia gpus) or increase input lag by a lot when using RTTS Frame Limit (Reflex method).
I have Freesync/G-sync 144 Hz monitor and ideal fps for me is 100-120. Anything above that is not needed for me. And I think the most efficient way is what I found but I only tested this on RTX 4090.
So, I enable DLSS upscale then I enable FSR 3 FG (prefer this one) or DLSS FG and lets say I have 180 fps after that which is way above what is needed for me. Then I just open MSI Afterburner and reduce POWER LIMIT until my fps in game starts to fall in 120 fps zone. This way I sometimes play at 4K100-130 fps with only 130-200W power consumption on RTX 4090 and this way you play without v-sync which is not needed when you have Freesync monitor and when FPS below it max HZ. When using this method my GPU temp at only around 50°C and OC 7500f @ 5.2 Ghz is only 50-55°C which leads to very quiet PC and super low power consumption and gaming is silky smooth.