I think Elio and Linda being early fans with little to no ego found the best success in being involved in the real world with publications and stuff, they weren't the type to cash in on youtube or whathaveyou, it wasn't their style or interest.
They started making small theory discussion videos, but Elio has told me before in comments that they're just too busy to do them. Which is understandable
my fandom has become masochism at this point, I have no hope for Dream, I only want Winds so I can have 10 more years of fan theory material from maestros like Preston
If we don't get a release date this year, there won't be Winds (sadly, it's just statistics at this point). Dream is just that... He has confirmed that close friends will have the materials to complete the story, but it won't be "Maester Martin's" hand. Realistically...for both Winds and Dream...
34:40 - With regards to "he brought a dragon back, but not the dragon he wanted", I think Linda is suggesting that the "dragon" is the birth of Rhaegar.
Could totally be the case. I feel that Elio and Linda have totally mastered Gurm's talent of being ambiguos sometimes, and I expect they do have to be careful what they say, since we all know they're close to George and we could interpret it as canon
42:13 - This is honestly what I've been saying for years now. The Meereenese Knot slowed down Dance for a long time. And that Meereenese Knot was only about 4 characters in 1 location coming together and having to figure out how. I think "The Winds of Winter" will start attempting to bring way more characters back together and so the ENTIRE BOOK is basically one huge Meereenese Knot. Which is why I think it's taking such a long time. Because he's slowly trying to figure out this knot and doing so not by reasoning and planning it out, but by actually writing chapters and then scrapping them and rewriting them completely if characters don't arrive at the points he wants them to at the right time or in the right mindset or the specific POV doesn't work or whatever. And I can imagine doing it this way takes forever.
And, btw, the way the original Meereenese Knot was solved was by introducing a Barristan POV. George clearly doesn't want to add in new elements anymore because he wants the books to be finished after 7 books. And so he has to find alternate ways to solve the Windenese Knot that don't involve adding new elements. Which i imagine is even harder.
More likely Bran is on the isle of faces, sitting a weirwood throne, at the end of the books than in Bloodraven's cave. It could make Harrenhal the new capital, if the King is on the Isle of faces.
George hiring Preston would make his life so much easier I find it hard to believe that anyone understands grrm outside of his family more than Preston
I love that someone went into the meticulous detail of uncovering whether fAegon could match up with the timeline when the reality is that Sara could still be his mother, George just didn't realize the implications of the dates he was giving for these things himself lol.
I don’t see a timeline problem. Aegon doesn’t have to be Illyrio’s legitimate son. Sara may have been his mistress before being his wife. And Varys doesn’t need to have been planted in Westeros specifically for Aegon; Illyrio could just repurpose him from his existing agent duties.
These two would upload every week reviewing the GOT series and it got really fun to watch Linda crack up by the end of season 5. I would actually interact with them quite often as they filmed the show where I am from and I would fill them in on various points about filming locations. When they got to the Dorne scenes and I told them it was filmed on a golf course they couldn't believe it. Fun times... Maybe not for them.
24:40 - What I wonder about with the "Euron went to Valyria" thing is... I distinctly remember (I think this was in "The World of Ice & Fire" actually) that there was a dragonrider who survived the doom of Valyria with his dragon and then lead an army to try and recapture Valyria or something and was never seen again. And so I wonder if maybe that guy died outside of Valyria somewhere and it was he who had the dragonhorn and wore Valyrian steel armour. Because he WAS a dragonlord. If anyone would have such a horn and if anyone could afford Valyrian steel armour it would have been a dragonlord. And I have to wonder why George put that guy in there if not to hint at something like this. So yeah, I think that Euron didn't go to Valyria. And one theory I have about how he got the dragonhorn and the armour then is that this dragonlord died before reaching Valyria and Euron somehow got his armour and his dragonhorn.
Pretty sure the point is that Euron just visited/saw Valyria through the weirwoods (or the black weirwoods in Essos). Lends credence to him saying men pray when they see him. Those men are just seeing the Weirwoods, or his effects on their ships through the Weirwoods, like Bran.
Interesting. You are thinking of Aurion, a dragon lord who recruits Qohorik colonists to reclaim the edges of the Doom in 102 BC. That's certainly a good possibility...I never considered him as the source of the armour. I like it.
There were multiple dragonriders who were beyond the range of the Fourteen Flames and survived the doom. Most of them were in Lys, where they quire quickly murdered by their slaves who also killed their dragons while the beasts were grounded and chained. The most important dragonlord however was Aurion, who declared himself the first Emperor of Valyria and recruited 30,000 men from Qohor whom he tried to lead back into Valyria proper in order to establish his reign. We don't know how far he got, but neither he nor his army were seen again.
The one caveat I keep coming back to is at least these two are fans. True enough fans that they would actually continue the story they love as opposed to interjecting their own biases
Calling Valyria a "magic Chernobyl" is very telling because Chernobyl means "wormwood" in Ukranian. Mormonta means "wormwood" in Gaelic, and the Red Comet is Mormont's Torch, so wormwood = Red Comet. And naggadaun (Nagga + Dawn [Greyking means "dawn"]) means "wormwood" in Hindi . And the myth of the Grey King and Nagga is describing a greenseer living inside a sea dragon that drowns islands, and a demon tree being struck by lightning, and Nagga's Ribs are a weirwood circle that a chest-burster erupted from-- a rib cage that shot its heart(tree). The Doom of Valyria is a direct parallel to the Fall of Numenor-- Numenor sunk under the waves at the same time that Valinor and Avallone (and the White Tower Tirion) were shot off into space. And the name Valyria is very close to Valinor. (mal-ort/mal-urt means "wormwood" in Old Norse, and weirwoods are malorns) ETA: I forgot the clearer Valyria=Valinor connection is that in Gaelic the Otherworld is called Tir Tairngair, "the land of Promise" and targaire means "prophecy" and tairngeartach means "the promised one, the prophesied one, the messiah" Which is all points to all the weirwood hills in Valyria exploding at the same time and sending the weirwood White Towers in to space, and that is why magic diminished after the Doom, because the weirwoods left. And Preston will like this, in Latin, Valeria means "eagle" and Volucrine means "bird-like" and haly means "eagle" (like Halley's Comet) #RedCometisaVolcryn.
The Doom also parallels Krypton and Moria, they were too greedy. Brightroar is fake just like the other Lannisters swords, ?Geron? was sent to reopen the old Targaryen mines for gold since Lannisters bought their gold with slaves from Targaryens. This is why Tyrion is in Essos as a slave, the irony of a Lannister made into a slave. The Shrouded Lord ?Geron? and the Stonemen are Moleman and his minions to Rolly:The Thing, Jon Con:Human Torch, Haldon: Reed Richards(Howland Reed), and Septa Lemore: the Invisible Woman (Tanner’s wife, Aegon’s unnamed wetnurse)
I like all this...but I thought "Valeria" and all those forms of that name and word meant "strong" or "brave" in Latin. Does it also represent an eagle? I do not know Latin but that's what I had always heard Valyrians were named for strength.
@@hopedixon2133 In Harper's Latin Dictionary valeria means "eagle" and I just realized that vale means "to say farewell" and Valyria said farewell to the Earth. And speaking of the Vale, in Old Norse ginnarr/ginnir (Jon Arryn) means "eagle, falcon" and ari and orn means "eagle" Weirwoods are malorns, and orn means "eagle" and ornus means "mountain ash" like the world tree Yggdrasil. Rowan = Mountain Ash/Royne, and "Flying Rowans" were believed to be magical trees. And egdar (Egg/Ygg) means "eagle"
@@michaelstalkfleet6989 So...I just googled it and all I can find for the word eagle in Latin is "aquila" or "aquilae". Not trying to sound like an ass or saying you're wrong but "val" root words are just not coming up at all for me, oh well it doesn't really matter lol. Have a lovely day!
14:15 - To be fair, he made that clear at the time. Elio and Linda did reviews of the episodes of the show (I know because I watched them) and after season 5 Elio quit and only Linda continued. Linda was originally also going to quit but she did translations to Swedish for the show and so realized she would be spoiled on the show anyway doing this and so figured she might as well continue doing the reviews. Which is to say, continue tearing almost everything after season 5 to shreds (I agree with her on that, btw, and found it quite entertaining).
"Hold the door" can still happen, but in a form of Hodor fighting off wights in order for Bran to be able to finish some "ritual" and seal the cave, saving it from further attacks.
This is just me being petty, but it would be funny if in George's outline, Hodor "held" the doorway in a military sense, fighting off wights, and D&D interpreted it as literally holding the door closed.
This is already the case. Having a literal door was DnDs choice , and it’s probably a necessary change for TV, audience won’t really know what “hold the door” means without some representation of a door
I work in a used bookstore and we haven't sold a Martin book in years, and I frequently hear customers making disparaging remarks about the series when they walk past that shelf. It's gotten so bad that we've taken all of our Martin doubles to thrift stores. At book sales there are always a ton of Martin books left on the final day. I think a combination of the show ending and Martin's continual delay in releasing the next book in the series had really poisoned the franchise. I have my doubts that the new show will do well, even if it's really well made.
When I read your comment my first thought was "that's bullshit," but it compelled me to look at my own bookstore's sale numbers for GRRM. Not a single copy of any of his books sold since 2019. I am stunned. We have a decent sized fantasy leaning customer base here too. How far the series has fallen...
Yeah, I'd say Ilio and Linda were PRETTY SUCCESSFUL off the back of aSoIaF content since they have actually collaborated with George. I feel like that's the most successful you can be.
The reason we have no travelogues in AGOT is not a change in style or "less efficient writing": every chapter has a reason to exist: we see Tyrion's later travels because he goes on a literal and metaphorical journey that shapes his character. We don't see Catlyn's ship journey to King's Landing because nothing happens of any import. It'd literally be just her on a ship for ten pages. Overall, ADWD is VERY efficient. Fans just find portions of the story boring.
Sure every chapter has a reason to exist, but if you deny the fact that Feast and Dance are written in a different style compared with the first 3 novels, I don't even know what to say. It is a markedly different style in many, many ways. Everything from pacing, to structure, to prose has changed significantly. And overall the books are now far more introspective, less plot-driven, and far more descriptive. It is not the breakneck pace of the first 3 books.
@@MarkHogan994 Are they more introspective though, or is it simply that the telling of the tale REQUIRES MORE INTROSPECTION at this point in the story, which is a separate matter? It is one thing to be presented a character; little explanation or justification is needed, the character simply is the way the character is. For that character to undergo meaningful development that changes fundamentally how they think and act, a fair bit of introspection is required to make the transition fully understood, which naturally slows the pace of the story but is sometimes needed in good writing. Martin has never ran from introspection. Eddard was very introspective. It IS true that his chapters seemed to move faster, but NOT because AGOT was more plot-driven. Eddards internal thoughts are often deliberately ambiguous or breezed over to avoid spoilers for later plot developments. Overall. the series is very plot driven, just the TYPE of plot has changed. Writing about a foreign queen gaining an army and taking slave cities is different than writing about a foreign queen ruling slave cities for half a year. Many (not me) simply find the latter boring.
I have to disagree, Feast/Dance is not efficiently written when compared to Thrones, Clash and Storm. Any literary critic will notice that the prose after Storm of Swords is more long-winded, self-indulgent and repetitive with more words dedicated to character introspection than the events actually happening to the characters, not aided at all by the chapters being longer. This is far more noticeable on re-reads than it is on a first read. GRRM's main strength as a writer is crafting witty dialogue and in this sense he is not playing to his strengths. This is a mixed bag though, I personally think Cersei's chapters in Feast are some of George's best writing but then you get people like Arys, Victarion, Aeron & Areo Hotah who's internal monologues aren't particularly interesting.
i used to love Linda's reviews of the show post season 5, they were so funny and she really told it true. She actually called them Dumb & Dumber. Deservedly so.
Wonderful work, I know it's difficult to understand some things because there wasn't an english translator, It was another youtuber switching up spanish to english, and spaniards accent in english is complicated. But I'm glad to see that the language barrier is not an obstacle to unite all ASOIAF youtubers. Next time ask Maglor If I can be his translator. Un saludo a todos.
Aegon could be a bastard, that's why Illyrio having a son is not common knowledge. Also there's a theory that Varys is Serra's son, so he was onboard even before Aegon was born. Illyrio and Serra could had made a bastard before he married her.
Totally agree, except that Varys could have been Serra's brother. I think Varys' back story, being out on the streets and sold to a sorcerer makes more sense if he were an orphan. The same circumstance that would have led to Serra working at a pleasure house
I think Varys has some Targaryen ancestry, being bald and he is usually wearing lilac, purple or lavender so his violet eyes wouldn’t be so noticeable or assumed to be a reflection of his wardrobe. (I have green eyes and I’ve found certain shades of green really enhance them)
Couldn't Illyrio have been sleeping with his future second wife while still married to his first wife? I've heard that that sort of thing happens sometimes
Yay love these super long podcasts of you guys. 46:20 yeah the super detailed travelogs. I guess I never noticed how detailed and in depth the traveling chapters got. If only he did a nice happy medium between the super efficient writing of old and his current writing. Is Tyrion even a part of Danys council yet? I don't know if they've even spoken to each other. God can you believe just how many characters need to meet, crash, and collide? The intense buildup and hopeful waiting for our fav characters to finally interact and be in each others chapters. It's truly devastating we will never read it. Jon finding out about his heritage. His reunion with Arya. Becoming a dragon rider and possibly having tons of silver haired babies. His final fight with the Others and settling the wildlings. I could go on and on and do this for all the characters. When I say devastating I mean it literally. History won't be kind to GRRM, if they remember him at all.
More realistic theory on Summerhall: Tried to birth a dragon with fire, and lost control of the fire... and burned the place down. Bran will be King. Just not sure king of what. Following Fisher/Wounded King idea, Bran is clearly being set up to be King
Honestly I don't pretend to know. But I know I'm in the minority. And I don't have a special sense of attachment to it cuz I've never read the books and don't plan too LOL
The debunking of the Faegon theory has some flaws: 1. Illyrio could have had Faegon out of wedlock and divorced his wife later on around that time to be with Serra (It is said that he sacrificed political pull to be with her) 2. Serra could die when Faegon is very young, mourning isn't exclusive to the recently deceased (look at the ghost of highheart) 3. It could be a promise me Ned situation (or just Illyrios way of honouring her) where Serra dies when Faegon is young not long into her marriage to Illyrio and so it makes sense that Varys would be sent to Westeros shortly after Faegons birth. Doesn't have to be exactly 280AC after all. While I believe the Faegon theory is true and that he is Illyrios child I don't currentlysee what the story gains from a definitive answer answer this mystery. This isnt like Jon's parentage where we have to find out and/or a clear answer is being set up. Faegon could just as well be Serras son by another man and Illyrio adopts him in some sense. Or a dozen other things.
This is my interest! Because in the show the mystifying quick switch to genocide by Dany…. An actual written story that develops her arc…. I get why cutting Fake Aegon helps trim, but I wonder how his existence impacts her arc…. And then to find out there is a REAL Aegon. Maybe Fake Aegon helps guide her arc and taking her darker. Idk
I think one of the big theories is that Egg intentionally started the fire because he knew human sacrifice was needed to hatch dragons. Maybe that could fit into your theory somehow.
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 Yep I've been on board with that theory for about 15 years now. I think old lovable Egg grew up to be batshit crazy Aegon V and tried to roast baby Rheagar among others to pop out a dragon or two. Dunk almost certainly was responsible for stopping whatever Aegon was up to. Becoming the Perfect Knight by breaking his KG vows in a direct parallel to Jaime killing Aerys. Ironic in a classical GRRM style. Absolutely brilliant and a complete waste of all our time. He'll never publish another mainline book in the series. It's time we all accept it.
hm yeah would fit with the “raised dragons but not how anyone thought” idea, egg probably tried sacrificing people or something, and the dragon awoken was the madness in him, would make sense that dunk would stop him
About saera being faegon mom works out if you look at the wiki Illyrio found Serra in a Lysene pillow house, and enjoyed her so much, he brought her home as one of his bedwarmers. He grew to care for her and eventually married her, upsetting the cousin of his first wife, the Prince of Pentos. So we can be sure his first wife was alive when he married saera. 2. If you look at the timeline illyrio married his first wife with the help of varys so it is unlikely that he was in westeros. With the aid of Varys, Illyrio Mopatis reached a position where the daughter of a Magister was willing to marry him.
Don't actually have sir arlan die untill like episode two or something and have a set up episode for dunk and sir arlan maybe, maybe have a blackfyre rebellion flashback, maybe have baelor breakspear or one of the other targaryens as more of a focus with some court intrigue or something
@@R0CKDRIG0 those would be the slowest paced show in history. There’s not that much things going on. It’s a pretty straightforward story about a « knight » befriending a prince without knowing it. Get in trouble for defending a puppeteer girl from another prince and having to defend himself in the tourney and having to recruit partners. That’s it. Nothing else happens.
@Preston Jacobs, what if the "bitter sweet ending" involves Bran (or the Weirwood-Net Hivemind?) taking humanity's free will away, giving Westeros a sort of "peace" though...being mindslaves to the Hive?
@@WanderingPropeller That's not really the same thing. It's Denton becoming a God-king and ruling humanity through technology. A hive mind slave race is much worse.
I think we can look to Elden Ring for what some of George's ideas for the ending are. What you're describing is quite similar to Elden Ring's Perfect Order ending, wherein the Golden Order, the magical and metaphysical law that governs the land is altered to strip the fickle gods and demigods of their free will, to create a better world for mortals. So going off of that I see Bran mind controlling just the political class of westeros to create a better world for the smallfolk. Another possible line is probably found in the Age of Stars ending. Ranni the Witch already quite resembles Bran (albeit blended with elements of Arianne and Danny), and her ending has her making a new order, a new metaphysical law, without demigods and without gods (apart from her), where the metaphysical law is distant and intangible, all in a way that sort of harkens back to the old religion once practiced by the lands inhabitants before the Golden Order and it's proponents came from beyond the sea... If we go with that direction, I could see an ending where Bran does away with the nobility entirely and lives as the distant yet ever present godking and protector of the realm, all in a way that harkens back to the hayday of the worship of the old gods.
41:40 - I also tend to guess that Bran will leave the cave, however I want to point out that "hold the door" doesn't HAVE to be part of an escape. It could be that the Others (or whatever) do attack but, for example, they take down the wards around their place temporarily and while the Children are putting them back up Hodor has to hold off the wights. And then the chapter ends with the wards having gone back up and Hodor having died in order to keep the wights out. But in this situation Bran could still stay where he is.
Although incidentally I do think that Bran ruling in someone else's body is likely. But I also think that he'll be a good ruler and bring stability. And in doing so that'll be part of the "bittersweet" ending. The realm will finally have a good ruler but that ruler will be an immortal tree wizard inhabiting king after king for centuries with each "heir" screaming in pain inside for their entire natural lives. Which is pretty fucked up, but arguably worth it on a purely utilitarian level.
I kinda hope the Blood Moon thing was cancelled because those are events that never actually happened in a way described in the available GRRM sources.
Bran sitting the Iron Throne without leaving the cave could happen in a couple ways that aren't that terrible, for instance, in the show's ending, you could say that "Bran" never left the cave. In fact, Meera basically does say that. It would also be possible for the person on the throne to allow Bran to warg into them on occasion, or maybe he even learns to use his warging abilities to communicate rather than fully taking control, and acts as a sort of chief advisor who can overrule the king if he feels it's important enough. Heck, I haven't finished reading all the books yet, but isn't bran the only person ever to be able to warg into a human? Maybe he's also the only person ever to be able to project an image of himself by just warging into thin air, or something like that. Also, I wouldn't in a million years put it past George to just have him permanently warg into Cersei or someone else who kinda deserves it. It's not like he hasn't inflicted horrific fates on some of his characters already. As for the reddit post debunking Illyrio being Griff's father, maybe he was having an affair with Serra before his first wife died.
I’m wondering if that’s how Jon is “resurrected” by Bran skinchanging into him and Jon claims the throne. Definitely a subversion of the “rightful heir” trope!
the idea that one dunc and egg short will equate to one season is absurd to me. We’re talking a 100 page short story being adapted to 10 hour long episodes on hbo? That sounds OUTRAGEOUSLY stretched. I wish they would do made for HBO 90 minute films for each dunc and egg story instead
I do actually subscribe to the theory that Bran becomes king but through controlling someone else while still in the cave, possibly even being the one that reanimates Jon. Oh, how the tables have turned. Now Preston thinks I'm the tin foil crack pot.
55:20 that's the weakest reasoning ever. People mourn their loves for years and year. Also just because there was a greyscale outbreak doesn't mean that people don't randomly contract it.
Illyrio being married to his first wife in 280 doesn't preclude impregnation Saera in 280. Men can have concubines or mistresses, impregnate them, and marry them later when his first wife dies. ILLYRIO CAN IMPREGNATE SAERA WHILE MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE. HE'S MARRIED NOT DEAD.
30:18 I agree that Mirri Maz Duur might be lying. However, if she is, why do you think that she chose to describe the baby that way? She could have said all sorts of things, but she went with a description that ressembles Rhaenyra's child and one of Maegor's children. It's not like it's common saying that stillborn babies look like the animal associated with the family (there aren't wolf-like stillborn Starks or kraken-like stillborn Greyjoys), so why would Mirri Maz Duur say that? I don't think that she knows enough Westerosi/Targaryen history to know about Rhaenyra and Maegor. One explanation would be that this is an actual thing that happened to Valyrians from time to time and Mirri Maz Duur is knowledgeable enough to know some Valyrian history.
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 Fair enough. It's true that she seems to be into birth stuff, so she would remember stories about weird babies. I'm just not sure that Mirri Maz Duur would care enough to learn about the Targaryens and everything, but maybe.
Illyrio clearly loves Young Griff and is way too invested in him. I kinda have to assume son or grandson here, I don't see other reasons for that deep involvement and for sending the boy his favorite candies as an extra touch.
I remember Elio and Linda being some of the first who made reviews of GoT episodes when the show wasn't super popular yet and they were very critical of what the show was doing even in season 2 & 3. I always really liked their takes but i guess at that time you needed to have a positive view on the show to really get fans watching your content. Since the only people who had any issue with the writing at that point were hardcore fans of the books.. and their content has clearly not been directed towards the GoT fandom lol
I don't think it will happen but I've always been a big fan of the idea that Bloodraven will take over Brans mind. Therefore when Bran sits the iron throne, it's really Bloodraven. I think taking away Bran chapters and making it a twist at the end would be the best way. It would be a version of the Scouring of the Shire.
To point out pandering isn't racist. Dragon house cast a black man in an historically famous role. One which never mentions him being black, and does mention his parents and his children as being whyt.
Could Aegon still be Serra’s son but not Illyrio’s? And Illyrio’s dedication to Aegon could make sense being he’s the son of her love? Perhaps sired on her by a Blackfyre?
@@Jesse-fd5bv I am being sarcastic. In my opinion (formed by Preston's...watch Who Wrote the Pink Letter video for more on that), the Pink Letter was probably written by Mance Rayder, Stannis, or a trouble maker inside Winterfell like a Manderly or somebody. We should not trust the obvious answer that GRRM presents of Ramsay Snow, and Jon of course falls for completely (IT'S A TRAP!!!!)
@@hopedixon2133 I completely agree with you, I believe it was Mance on Stannis' suggestion but the fact that Elio Garcia 100% thinks it's Ramsay is still weird. He even said (about Preston) ''If he doesn't believe it's Ramsay, he's wrong''
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 I tried that during my reread. I preferred it to them being separate, mostly because some of AFfC is kind of boring and the chapters are longer. But, of course, it's personal.
I dont see why there could not be a mixture of genetics and magic. The books contain some magic in them, so the thing exist to some degree. Why would it be part of the world if you are not gonna use it in key plot points?
I think GRRM's problem is, that late in life he realized writing about people being horrible people was way more fun than writing about Ice Zombie Apocalypses, and so his attention has shifted away from the end of the story and settled more on the "human" part of it. The more dramatic, who's banging who, trashy soap opera aspects.
I think it is incredibly hypocritical of Carmine to criticize Linda for spoiling upcoming book events while specifically describing her spoilers. Fuck him for throwing that out there. In this podcast they both felt like providing detailed context of who Elio and Linda are, to the few people who may not have known. Basic decency when discussing spoiler material is you either throw out a spoiler warning or you vaguely elude to a spoiler she mentioned for those of us who were not aware of this leak. Carmine should re-examine himself and/or offer an apology to Linda for having criticised her in the first place for doing that.
I kinda wish I could share your enthusiasm. Like, returning to those 2011 feelings of excitement for Got/asoiaf tv produced content. But I can't; Between the show deliberately and maliciously dropping the ball, and George choosing to do, figuratively, _anything_ else except writing the series I sort of no longer have enjoyment in this franchise. I'm mostly here because of Preston and Carmine.
@@EyeOfEld GRRM won't even be able to finish the Dunk and Egg story. And worse, he'll tailor those stories to comply with whatever demands the heads at HBO want
The Spanish speaker wouldn't complain about not being able to understand the English translator because they would understand the Spanish being spoken.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin I'm a patreon on the Maglor channel and initially this interview was thought to be completelly dubbed into Spanish. The Spanish dubbed version is available from two months ago. The English version was uploaded because some channel followers wanted to hear the original voices and because Maglor has a few English speaker followers (many of his videos have English subtitles but unfortunately this interview only has auto-generated English subtitles)
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin So if I've got this right the host was speaking Spanish and the guest English? If so then you're right, the host native language should given priority.
On the comment about Eilo and Linda and there connection to George. I think George was close to a lot of his fans in the pre-HBO days. If you listen to Radio Westros Episode 4 from 2014. When they talk about the Brotherhood without banners and the things people would do the join and hang with George. And lets be real Worldcon was never really than big of Con. At least compared to Dragoncon, Gencon, or SDCC. So it was small group of super fans that could afford to travel every year often internationally. That is unlikely to be a big number of people. As for Websites and Authors. My wife was big Harry Potter fan and I think there was similar site for that in the early 2000 that Joanne sited few times publicly admitting the same thing as George that the fans did a better job keeping track of facts than she did. Babylon 5 had the Lurkers Guide. I sure other fandoms had major fan sites in the era as well.
It seems like there would be plenty of material for another two Fire and Blood books. Picking up with Aegon III reign onward it feels like with his son the Young Dragon, the religious zealot Baelor and everything that takes place under Aegon IV, who Martin has compared with Henry VIII, that he could easily fill a volume that ends with the lead up to the Blackfyres. And the various Blackfyre rebellions through to Robert’s rebellion is more than enough to fill a third book.
Not necessarily. It's not either/or situation. Nettles basically tamed her dragon. Targaryens have then genes that enables them to fly the dragons. Nettles bought her flying ticket with sheep. Probably she doesnt have "the bond" with the dragon that says one rider one dragon until that rider dies. Technically, a dragonseed or Targaryen can bond with her dragon and steal it away.
I mean they had a divided fanbase and now with Rhaenira,Daemon and, of course, Corlys casting it's even more divided and full of arguments... I wish HOTD never came out.
I'm so happy to find out I'm not the only one that stopped after season 5. Thought I'd jumped that ship alone. First Stannis, the greatest General in Westeros, marches his army straight into Boltons arms. Then those cheap cgi skeletons kill Jojen and Leaf starts throwing fireballs from her hands like she had a fire flower up her ass? I was apoplectic. Never watched another episode.
@@dasaggropop1244 I knew it was coming. Hell it was already cringe. I mean wtf they walked around Moat Cailin? Huh why didn't anyone think of that before? I'm still pissed all these years later.
that, the sand snakes, and the sansa shit is what made me stop watching. season 5 was just abhorrent and i cant believe good will was strong enough for people to ignore it.
I mean maybe Illyrio was having an affair with Sesra. Idk why he couldnt have Aegon out of wedlock. And the reason Varys cares is cause he could be a Blackfyre himself.
So I bought the first book when I came out, then forgot about the series for 10 years. Bought the next couple novels and thought, holy crap this is great. Two decades later and it's like, fuk, another Robert Jordan incoming.
Couldn't Serra have had Aegon before she married Ilyrio? He's Ilyrio's step son, and as a dying wish Serra wanted his "birth-right" restored, and staging as Aegon is the most likely way to crown him?
On the subject of Illyrio and Serra's possible parentage of Young Griff, is it possible that Young Griff proports to be 18 (same age as his totally definitely legit true identity Aegon Targaryen), but is actually a few years older or younger? Isn't it a bit suspicious that JonCon was brought in to foster the kid several years after the rebellion, like maybe Young Griff was a slightly wrong age, and Varys&Illyrio were waiting until he was old enough that the discrepancy wouldn't be so obvious? Also, could Illyrio and Serra have married after Young Griff was born?
My inner Thousand-Worlds crackpot is now speculating that Planetos heraldry originated as designation of the unit or colony's solar system -- Valyrion the sea-goat Capricornus, Targaryen the multi-headed Hydra, Dayne some militant falling-star, etc. It's admittedly thin, but we know that Martin really likes Canticle for Leibowitz, and this (fallen medieval culture clinging on to futuristic knowledge they no longer understand) is a perfect 'fit' or 'homage' to same. Yowzers.
Thank you very much for sharing the link and talking about the interview! I hope the ASoIaF community likes it.
Donde esta la biblioteca?
@@OfficialRedTeamReview 🤡
@@OfficialRedTeamReview La biblioteca es el bigote grande el perro manteca.
@Ausf ¿Dónde está la leche?
@@chadsummerchild1120 Not in the song? Presumably, in the vaca though.
I think Elio and Linda being early fans with little to no ego found the best success in being involved in the real world with publications and stuff, they weren't the type to cash in on youtube or whathaveyou, it wasn't their style or interest.
They started making small theory discussion videos, but Elio has told me before in comments that they're just too busy to do them. Which is understandable
my fandom has become
masochism at this point, I have no hope for Dream, I only want Winds so I can have 10 more years of fan theory material from maestros like Preston
Preach!
Just read a different series lol
If we don't get a release date this year, there won't be Winds (sadly, it's just statistics at this point). Dream is just that... He has confirmed that close friends will have the materials to complete the story, but it won't be "Maester Martin's" hand. Realistically...for both Winds and Dream...
I want to believe anything else, but I understand statistics too well to really have any hope...
@@ArrakisHeir88 Son the Black Sword is a fun series =)
34:40 - With regards to "he brought a dragon back, but not the dragon he wanted", I think Linda is suggesting that the "dragon" is the birth of Rhaegar.
Could totally be the case. I feel that Elio and Linda have totally mastered Gurm's talent of being ambiguos sometimes, and I expect they do have to be careful what they say, since we all know they're close to George and we could interpret it as canon
Yeah that sounds more likely, I mean its what everyone assumes, besides what could a hatchling do, we know how powerless Dany's were
42:13 - This is honestly what I've been saying for years now. The Meereenese Knot slowed down Dance for a long time. And that Meereenese Knot was only about 4 characters in 1 location coming together and having to figure out how. I think "The Winds of Winter" will start attempting to bring way more characters back together and so the ENTIRE BOOK is basically one huge Meereenese Knot. Which is why I think it's taking such a long time. Because he's slowly trying to figure out this knot and doing so not by reasoning and planning it out, but by actually writing chapters and then scrapping them and rewriting them completely if characters don't arrive at the points he wants them to at the right time or in the right mindset or the specific POV doesn't work or whatever. And I can imagine doing it this way takes forever.
And, btw, the way the original Meereenese Knot was solved was by introducing a Barristan POV. George clearly doesn't want to add in new elements anymore because he wants the books to be finished after 7 books. And so he has to find alternate ways to solve the Windenese Knot that don't involve adding new elements. Which i imagine is even harder.
@@OneOnOne1162 I think you are to something!
@@OneOnOne1162
The proliferation of povs has helped to bog down the story.
@Alan Pennie "bog down" his pace maybe, but has made the story extremely more interesting
I have thought the same thing for quite some time now. IDK why this isn't talked about more.
More likely Bran is on the isle of faces, sitting a weirwood throne, at the end of the books than in Bloodraven's cave. It could make Harrenhal the new capital, if the King is on the Isle of faces.
Wondering if it’s going to do a Fisher King thing where Harrenhal is no longer a burned out ruin and maybe “bloom” since the Old Gods will be involved
That's been my fan theory since I read the book the first time
The ultimate working from home scenario.
George hiring Preston would make his life so much easier I find it hard to believe that anyone understands grrm outside of his family more than Preston
I love that someone went into the meticulous detail of uncovering whether fAegon could match up with the timeline when the reality is that Sara could still be his mother, George just didn't realize the implications of the dates he was giving for these things himself lol.
I don’t see a timeline problem. Aegon doesn’t have to be Illyrio’s legitimate son. Sara may have been his mistress before being his wife. And Varys doesn’t need to have been planted in Westeros specifically for Aegon; Illyrio could just repurpose him from his existing agent duties.
These two would upload every week reviewing the GOT series and it got really fun to watch Linda crack up by the end of season 5. I would actually interact with them quite often as they filmed the show where I am from and I would fill them in on various points about filming locations. When they got to the Dorne scenes and I told them it was filmed on a golf course they couldn't believe it. Fun times... Maybe not for them.
@@charlesschwaboverhere5582 Yes. th-cam.com/users/WesterosTVvideos
love these talks!
24:40 - What I wonder about with the "Euron went to Valyria" thing is... I distinctly remember (I think this was in "The World of Ice & Fire" actually) that there was a dragonrider who survived the doom of Valyria with his dragon and then lead an army to try and recapture Valyria or something and was never seen again. And so I wonder if maybe that guy died outside of Valyria somewhere and it was he who had the dragonhorn and wore Valyrian steel armour. Because he WAS a dragonlord. If anyone would have such a horn and if anyone could afford Valyrian steel armour it would have been a dragonlord. And I have to wonder why George put that guy in there if not to hint at something like this.
So yeah, I think that Euron didn't go to Valyria. And one theory I have about how he got the dragonhorn and the armour then is that this dragonlord died before reaching Valyria and Euron somehow got his armour and his dragonhorn.
Pretty sure the point is that Euron just visited/saw Valyria through the weirwoods (or the black weirwoods in Essos). Lends credence to him saying men pray when they see him. Those men are just seeing the Weirwoods, or his effects on their ships through the Weirwoods, like Bran.
Interesting. You are thinking of Aurion, a dragon lord who recruits Qohorik colonists to reclaim the edges of the Doom in 102 BC. That's certainly a good possibility...I never considered him as the source of the armour. I like it.
There were multiple dragonriders who were beyond the range of the Fourteen Flames and survived the doom. Most of them were in Lys, where they quire quickly murdered by their slaves who also killed their dragons while the beasts were grounded and chained.
The most important dragonlord however was Aurion, who declared himself the first Emperor of Valyria and recruited 30,000 men from Qohor whom he tried to lead back into Valyria proper in order to establish his reign. We don't know how far he got, but neither he nor his army were seen again.
The one caveat I keep coming back to is at least these two are fans. True enough fans that they would actually continue the story they love as opposed to interjecting their own biases
Thats why I trust their judgement
Calling Valyria a "magic Chernobyl" is very telling because Chernobyl means "wormwood" in Ukranian. Mormonta means "wormwood" in Gaelic, and the Red Comet is Mormont's Torch, so wormwood = Red Comet. And naggadaun (Nagga + Dawn [Greyking means "dawn"]) means "wormwood" in Hindi . And the myth of the Grey King and Nagga is describing a greenseer living inside a sea dragon that drowns islands, and a demon tree being struck by lightning, and Nagga's Ribs are a weirwood circle that a chest-burster erupted from-- a rib cage that shot its heart(tree).
The Doom of Valyria is a direct parallel to the Fall of Numenor-- Numenor sunk under the waves at the same time that Valinor and Avallone (and the White Tower Tirion) were shot off into space. And the name Valyria is very close to Valinor. (mal-ort/mal-urt means "wormwood" in Old Norse, and weirwoods are malorns)
ETA: I forgot the clearer Valyria=Valinor connection is that in Gaelic the Otherworld is called Tir Tairngair, "the land of Promise" and targaire means "prophecy" and tairngeartach means "the promised one, the prophesied one, the messiah"
Which is all points to all the weirwood hills in Valyria exploding at the same time and sending the weirwood White Towers in to space, and that is why magic diminished after the Doom, because the weirwoods left.
And Preston will like this, in Latin, Valeria means "eagle" and Volucrine means "bird-like" and haly means "eagle" (like Halley's Comet) #RedCometisaVolcryn.
I'll have whatever you're smoking man
The Doom also parallels Krypton and Moria, they were too greedy. Brightroar is fake just like the other Lannisters swords, ?Geron? was sent to reopen the old Targaryen mines for gold since Lannisters bought their gold with slaves from Targaryens. This is why Tyrion is in Essos as a slave, the irony of a Lannister made into a slave.
The Shrouded Lord ?Geron? and the Stonemen are Moleman and his minions to Rolly:The Thing, Jon Con:Human Torch, Haldon: Reed Richards(Howland Reed), and Septa Lemore: the Invisible Woman (Tanner’s wife, Aegon’s unnamed wetnurse)
I like all this...but I thought "Valeria" and all those forms of that name and word meant "strong" or "brave" in Latin. Does it also represent an eagle? I do not know Latin but that's what I had always heard Valyrians were named for strength.
@@hopedixon2133 In Harper's Latin Dictionary valeria means "eagle" and I just realized that vale means "to say farewell" and Valyria said farewell to the Earth.
And speaking of the Vale, in Old Norse ginnarr/ginnir (Jon Arryn) means "eagle, falcon" and ari and orn means "eagle"
Weirwoods are malorns, and orn means "eagle" and ornus means "mountain ash" like the world tree Yggdrasil. Rowan = Mountain Ash/Royne, and "Flying Rowans" were believed to be magical trees. And egdar (Egg/Ygg) means "eagle"
@@michaelstalkfleet6989 So...I just googled it and all I can find for the word eagle in Latin is "aquila" or "aquilae". Not trying to sound like an ass or saying you're wrong but "val" root words are just not coming up at all for me, oh well it doesn't really matter lol. Have a lovely day!
14:15 - To be fair, he made that clear at the time. Elio and Linda did reviews of the episodes of the show (I know because I watched them) and after season 5 Elio quit and only Linda continued. Linda was originally also going to quit but she did translations to Swedish for the show and so realized she would be spoiled on the show anyway doing this and so figured she might as well continue doing the reviews. Which is to say, continue tearing almost everything after season 5 to shreds (I agree with her on that, btw, and found it quite entertaining).
It was funny when Elio sat in on Linda reviewing the last episodes.
"Hold the door" can still happen, but in a form of Hodor fighting off wights in order for Bran to be able to finish some "ritual" and seal the cave, saving it from further attacks.
This is just me being petty, but it would be funny if in George's outline, Hodor "held" the doorway in a military sense, fighting off wights, and D&D interpreted it as literally holding the door closed.
@@KonguZya George has said that "hold the door" isn't supposed to be a literal holding of a door, it means defense combat
This is already the case. Having a literal door was DnDs choice , and it’s probably a necessary change for TV, audience won’t really know what “hold the door” means without some representation of a door
16:00 Fuck D&D for portraying Dorne so terribly. They seriously fucked it up for the whole lot of us.
I work in a used bookstore and we haven't sold a Martin book in years, and I frequently hear customers making disparaging remarks about the series when they walk past that shelf. It's gotten so bad that we've taken all of our Martin doubles to thrift stores. At book sales there are always a ton of Martin books left on the final day. I think a combination of the show ending and Martin's continual delay in releasing the next book in the series had really poisoned the franchise. I have my doubts that the new show will do well, even if it's really well made.
When I read your comment my first thought was "that's bullshit," but it compelled me to look at my own bookstore's sale numbers for GRRM. Not a single copy of any of his books sold since 2019. I am stunned. We have a decent sized fantasy leaning customer base here too. How far the series has fallen...
This is sad
I’m not too shocked.
@@dudeskeela
There doesn't seem much point in beginning a very wordy book series which doesn't have an ending, and is unlikely ever to get one.
I think A lot of that has to do with pirating the ebooks lool just look at the torrent numbers thousands of downloads in the last month alone...
Yeah, I'd say Ilio and Linda were PRETTY SUCCESSFUL off the back of aSoIaF content since they have actually collaborated with George. I feel like that's the most successful you can be.
Carmine: These Spanish dudes' English sucks! I can't understand them! Donde esta la biblioteca?
Also Carmine: Linda is ackshually racist af you guys
The reason we have no travelogues in AGOT is not a change in style or "less efficient writing": every chapter has a reason to exist: we see Tyrion's later travels because he goes on a literal and metaphorical journey that shapes his character. We don't see Catlyn's ship journey to King's Landing because nothing happens of any import. It'd literally be just her on a ship for ten pages. Overall, ADWD is VERY efficient. Fans just find portions of the story boring.
Sure every chapter has a reason to exist, but if you deny the fact that Feast and Dance are written in a different style compared with the first 3 novels, I don't even know what to say. It is a markedly different style in many, many ways. Everything from pacing, to structure, to prose has changed significantly. And overall the books are now far more introspective, less plot-driven, and far more descriptive. It is not the breakneck pace of the first 3 books.
@@MarkHogan994 Are they more introspective though, or is it simply that the telling of the tale REQUIRES MORE INTROSPECTION at this point in the story, which is a separate matter? It is one thing to be presented a character; little explanation or justification is needed, the character simply is the way the character is. For that character to undergo meaningful development that changes fundamentally how they think and act, a fair bit of introspection is required to make the transition fully understood, which naturally slows the pace of the story but is sometimes needed in good writing.
Martin has never ran from introspection. Eddard was very introspective. It IS true that his chapters seemed to move faster, but NOT because AGOT was more plot-driven. Eddards internal thoughts are often deliberately ambiguous or breezed over to avoid spoilers for later plot developments. Overall. the series is very plot driven, just the TYPE of plot has changed. Writing about a foreign queen gaining an army and taking slave cities is different than writing about a foreign queen ruling slave cities for half a year. Many (not me) simply find the latter boring.
I have to disagree, Feast/Dance is not efficiently written when compared to Thrones, Clash and Storm. Any literary critic will notice that the prose after Storm of Swords is more long-winded, self-indulgent and repetitive with more words dedicated to character introspection than the events actually happening to the characters, not aided at all by the chapters being longer.
This is far more noticeable on re-reads than it is on a first read. GRRM's main strength as a writer is crafting witty dialogue and in this sense he is not playing to his strengths. This is a mixed bag though, I personally think Cersei's chapters in Feast are some of George's best writing but then you get people like Arys, Victarion, Aeron & Areo Hotah who's internal monologues aren't particularly interesting.
i used to love Linda's reviews of the show post season 5, they were so funny and she really told it true. She actually called them Dumb & Dumber. Deservedly so.
Where can I read those reviews?
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 they were on her channel, let me check
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 here you go th-cam.com/video/0yyPQkQ-3Bs/w-d-xo.html
@@energeticwave5437 Thanks
Yes, they were fun to watch.
Once Dunk and Egg starts filming, George will give up writing those stories too.
Wow, bitter and not informative
@@nicholsonfile happened with ASOIAF, it will happen again
@@nickkoch3467 calm down
@@nicholsonfile you’ve read his not a blog? Only dreams of spring at this point
@@nickkoch3467 Copes of Spring
Wonderful work, I know it's difficult to understand some things because there wasn't an english translator, It was another youtuber switching up spanish to english, and spaniards accent in english is complicated. But I'm glad to see that the language barrier is not an obstacle to unite all ASOIAF youtubers. Next time ask Maglor If I can be his translator. Un saludo a todos.
Aegon could be a bastard, that's why Illyrio having a son is not common knowledge. Also there's a theory that Varys is Serra's son, so he was onboard even before Aegon was born. Illyrio and Serra could had made a bastard before he married her.
Totally agree, except that Varys could have been Serra's brother. I think Varys' back story, being out on the streets and sold to a sorcerer makes more sense if he were an orphan. The same circumstance that would have led to Serra working at a pleasure house
I think Varys has some Targaryen ancestry, being bald and he is usually wearing lilac, purple or lavender so his violet eyes wouldn’t be so noticeable or assumed to be a reflection of his wardrobe. (I have green eyes and I’ve found certain shades of green really enhance them)
If Serra is a Blackfyre and she's in a brothel, it would make sence for her Blackfyre brother to be in the mummers troupe.
Couldn't Illyrio have been sleeping with his future second wife while still married to his first wife? I've heard that that sort of thing happens sometimes
Great podcast guys. It was fun ❤️
Yay love these super long podcasts of you guys. 46:20 yeah the super detailed travelogs. I guess I never noticed how detailed and in depth the traveling chapters got. If only he did a nice happy medium between the super efficient writing of old and his current writing. Is Tyrion even a part of Danys council yet? I don't know if they've even spoken to each other. God can you believe just how many characters need to meet, crash, and collide? The intense buildup and hopeful waiting for our fav characters to finally interact and be in each others chapters. It's truly devastating we will never read it. Jon finding out about his heritage. His reunion with Arya. Becoming a dragon rider and possibly having tons of silver haired babies. His final fight with the Others and settling the wildlings. I could go on and on and do this for all the characters. When I say devastating I mean it literally. History won't be kind to GRRM, if they remember him at all.
Did you guys play the Tell Tale game from Game of Thrones? Curious your throughts on that story and George's involvement
Any chance of getting Elio on the podcast or live stream?
Isn't it established that newborn dragons don't breathe fire yet, and it takes couple months for them to be able to do so?
More realistic theory on Summerhall:
Tried to birth a dragon with fire, and lost control of the fire... and burned the place down.
Bran will be King. Just not sure king of what. Following Fisher/Wounded King idea, Bran is clearly being set up to be King
I like the idea of Young Griff being exactly who he claims. And the conflict for Danny
How is a Targaryen marring their kin a conflict? 🤪
@@T00THY_0RiFiCE I cant see her being willing to share lol
Who would be the mummer's dragon then?
Honestly I don't pretend to know. But I know I'm in the minority. And I don't have a special sense of attachment to it cuz I've never read the books and don't plan too LOL
@@harley4683 bruh...
The debunking of the Faegon theory has some flaws:
1. Illyrio could have had Faegon out of wedlock and divorced his wife later on around that time to be with Serra (It is said that he sacrificed political pull to be with her)
2. Serra could die when Faegon is very young, mourning isn't exclusive to the recently deceased (look at the ghost of highheart)
3. It could be a promise me Ned situation (or just Illyrios way of honouring her) where Serra dies when Faegon is young not long into her marriage to Illyrio and so it makes sense that Varys would be sent to Westeros shortly after Faegons birth. Doesn't have to be exactly 280AC after all.
While I believe the Faegon theory is true and that he is Illyrios child I don't currentlysee what the story gains from a definitive answer answer this mystery. This isnt like Jon's parentage where we have to find out and/or a clear answer is being set up.
Faegon could just as well be Serras son by another man and Illyrio adopts him in some sense. Or a dozen other things.
This is my interest! Because in the show the mystifying quick switch to genocide by Dany…. An actual written story that develops her arc…. I get why cutting Fake Aegon helps trim, but I wonder how his existence impacts her arc…. And then to find out there is a REAL Aegon. Maybe Fake Aegon helps guide her arc and taking her darker. Idk
I have a weird hunch that Dunk killed Egg at Summerhall, that’s one of the primary reasons no one will talk about what happened there
I think one of the big theories is that Egg intentionally started the fire because he knew human sacrifice was needed to hatch dragons. Maybe that could fit into your theory somehow.
A clout on the ear, eh?
It would be incredibly on theme
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 Yep I've been on board with that theory for about 15 years now. I think old lovable Egg grew up to be batshit crazy Aegon V and tried to roast baby Rheagar among others to pop out a dragon or two. Dunk almost certainly was responsible for stopping whatever Aegon was up to. Becoming the Perfect Knight by breaking his KG vows in a direct parallel to Jaime killing Aerys. Ironic in a classical GRRM style. Absolutely brilliant and a complete waste of all our time. He'll never publish another mainline book in the series. It's time we all accept it.
hm yeah would fit with the “raised dragons but not how anyone thought” idea, egg probably tried sacrificing people or something, and the dragon awoken was the madness in him, would make sense that dunk would stop him
About saera being faegon mom works out if you look at the wiki Illyrio found Serra in a Lysene pillow house, and enjoyed her so much, he brought her home as one of his bedwarmers. He grew to care for her and eventually married her, upsetting the cousin of his first wife, the Prince of Pentos. So we can be sure his first wife was alive when he married saera.
2. If you look at the timeline illyrio married his first wife with the help of varys so it is unlikely that he was in westeros. With the aid of Varys, Illyrio Mopatis reached a position where the daughter of a Magister was willing to marry him.
The fact this dude is emailing Elio and getting responses 😂
I wonder how you can make a full season out of The Hedge Knight. That story takes place over 3 days top.
Don't actually have sir arlan die untill like episode two or something and have a set up episode for dunk and sir arlan maybe, maybe have a blackfyre rebellion flashback, maybe have baelor breakspear or one of the other targaryens as more of a focus with some court intrigue or something
Watch Arcane. 9 episodes divided into two events that each seemingly take place over 2-5 days.
@@R0CKDRIG0 that kinda prove my point that this is not a long period of time for a whole season
@@oliviawilliams6204 They could easily make 6 episodes lasting 40 minutes that take place over 3 1/2 days.
@@R0CKDRIG0 those would be the slowest paced show in history. There’s not that much things going on. It’s a pretty straightforward story about a « knight » befriending a prince without knowing it. Get in trouble for defending a puppeteer girl from another prince and having to defend himself in the tourney and having to recruit partners. That’s it. Nothing else happens.
@Preston Jacobs, what if the "bitter sweet ending" involves Bran (or the Weirwood-Net Hivemind?) taking humanity's free will away, giving Westeros a sort of "peace" though...being mindslaves to the Hive?
This is my theory. I feel like the whole series is a treatise on free will/existentialism so in my opinion this would be a fitting end to the story
So basically Helios-Denton hivemind from Deus Ex.
"Resistance is futile" lol
@@WanderingPropeller That's not really the same thing. It's Denton becoming a God-king and ruling humanity through technology. A hive mind slave race is much worse.
I think we can look to Elden Ring for what some of George's ideas for the ending are.
What you're describing is quite similar to Elden Ring's Perfect Order ending, wherein the Golden Order, the magical and metaphysical law that governs the land is altered to strip the fickle gods and demigods of their free will, to create a better world for mortals.
So going off of that I see Bran mind controlling just the political class of westeros to create a better world for the smallfolk.
Another possible line is probably found in the Age of Stars ending. Ranni the Witch already quite resembles Bran (albeit blended with elements of Arianne and Danny), and her ending has her making a new order, a new metaphysical law, without demigods and without gods (apart from her), where the metaphysical law is distant and intangible, all in a way that sort of harkens back to the old religion once practiced by the lands inhabitants before the Golden Order and it's proponents came from beyond the sea...
If we go with that direction, I could see an ending where Bran does away with the nobility entirely and lives as the distant yet ever present godking and protector of the realm, all in a way that harkens back to the hayday of the worship of the old gods.
41:40 - I also tend to guess that Bran will leave the cave, however I want to point out that "hold the door" doesn't HAVE to be part of an escape. It could be that the Others (or whatever) do attack but, for example, they take down the wards around their place temporarily and while the Children are putting them back up Hodor has to hold off the wights. And then the chapter ends with the wards having gone back up and Hodor having died in order to keep the wights out. But in this situation Bran could still stay where he is.
Although incidentally I do think that Bran ruling in someone else's body is likely. But I also think that he'll be a good ruler and bring stability. And in doing so that'll be part of the "bittersweet" ending. The realm will finally have a good ruler but that ruler will be an immortal tree wizard inhabiting king after king for centuries with each "heir" screaming in pain inside for their entire natural lives. Which is pretty fucked up, but arguably worth it on a purely utilitarian level.
I kinda hope the Blood Moon thing was cancelled because those are events that never actually happened in a way described in the available GRRM sources.
It was good that HBO were able to course correct, because the Long Night prequel was a really bizarre project.
@@alanpennie8013 especially what they wanted to do with the Children and all the racial stuff. That would just be WAY to strange and random
Man, Ilio and Preston teaming up to make a Thousand World's guide would be great.
Back are we and
Bran sitting the Iron Throne without leaving the cave could happen in a couple ways that aren't that terrible, for instance, in the show's ending, you could say that "Bran" never left the cave. In fact, Meera basically does say that. It would also be possible for the person on the throne to allow Bran to warg into them on occasion, or maybe he even learns to use his warging abilities to communicate rather than fully taking control, and acts as a sort of chief advisor who can overrule the king if he feels it's important enough. Heck, I haven't finished reading all the books yet, but isn't bran the only person ever to be able to warg into a human? Maybe he's also the only person ever to be able to project an image of himself by just warging into thin air, or something like that. Also, I wouldn't in a million years put it past George to just have him permanently warg into Cersei or someone else who kinda deserves it. It's not like he hasn't inflicted horrific fates on some of his characters already.
As for the reddit post debunking Illyrio being Griff's father, maybe he was having an affair with Serra before his first wife died.
I’m wondering if that’s how Jon is “resurrected” by Bran skinchanging into him and Jon claims the throne. Definitely a subversion of the “rightful heir” trope!
I like how you tried to correct Carmine's really Americentric view on interpreters, and he just ignored the polite correction.
the idea that one dunc and egg short will equate to one season is absurd to me. We’re talking a 100 page short story being adapted to 10 hour long episodes on hbo? That sounds OUTRAGEOUSLY stretched. I wish they would do made for HBO 90 minute films for each dunc and egg story instead
FWIW, a lot of shows are going six episodes now. BoBF was barely seven. Moon Knight will be six.
I do actually subscribe to the theory that Bran becomes king but through controlling someone else while still in the cave, possibly even being the one that reanimates Jon.
Oh, how the tables have turned. Now Preston thinks I'm the tin foil crack pot.
55:20 that's the weakest reasoning ever. People mourn their loves for years and year. Also just because there was a greyscale outbreak doesn't mean that people don't randomly contract it.
Regarding Illyrio mourning Sarah, what does time have to do with it? Robert Baratheon mourns Lyanna Stark and she’s been dead about as long…
Illyrio being married to his first wife in 280 doesn't preclude impregnation Saera in 280. Men can have concubines or mistresses, impregnate them, and marry them later when his first wife dies. ILLYRIO CAN IMPREGNATE SAERA WHILE MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE. HE'S MARRIED NOT DEAD.
25:08 im confused what did you mean by book tyrion is like book tyrion?
I think he got confused
I don't believe for a second they know all of what will happen (assuming ASOIAF finishes).
They probably have some knowledge more than most though.
> "Valyria Magical Chernobyl"
OK, so nuclear-powered dragons theory confirmed!
Perhaps when they say “Bran will sit the iron throne”, they just mean for a period of time and not at the end of the story
Yes I think everyone is interpreting "Bran sits on the throne" way too literally
Wtf is this cope
I'm not opposed to Brienne killing Stannis. I just want it to make sense. It didn't make sense in the show.
30:18 I agree that Mirri Maz Duur might be lying. However, if she is, why do you think that she chose to describe the baby that way? She could have said all sorts of things, but she went with a description that ressembles Rhaenyra's child and one of Maegor's children. It's not like it's common saying that stillborn babies look like the animal associated with the family (there aren't wolf-like stillborn Starks or kraken-like stillborn Greyjoys), so why would Mirri Maz Duur say that? I don't think that she knows enough Westerosi/Targaryen history to know about Rhaenyra and Maegor. One explanation would be that this is an actual thing that happened to Valyrians from time to time and Mirri Maz Duur is knowledgeable enough to know some Valyrian history.
Marwyn taught anatomy to Mirri Maz Duur.
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 So? Are you proposing that he taught her the anatomy of stillborns and magic or something?
@@juanpablomina1346 Maybe he told her about Rhaenira's chilldren as curiosities.... he was a maester after all.
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 Fair enough. It's true that she seems to be into birth stuff, so she would remember stories about weird babies. I'm just not sure that Mirri Maz Duur would care enough to learn about the Targaryens and everything, but maybe.
I assumed it was partly true but she hammed it up to hurt her. So maybe the child had tough dry skin like eczema and not the scaly skin etc
Illyrio clearly loves Young Griff and is way too invested in him. I kinda have to assume son or grandson here, I don't see other reasons for that deep involvement and for sending the boy his favorite candies as an extra touch.
Aegon could have been raised with Illyrio, and he could see the boy as an adopted son/ grandson. Really not too hard.
Still annoyed Preston about that joke you made “what are they going to do? Have Arya come out of nowhere to kill the nightking??”
I remember Elio and Linda being some of the first who made reviews of GoT episodes when the show wasn't super popular yet and they were very critical of what the show was doing even in season 2 & 3. I always really liked their takes but i guess at that time you needed to have a positive view on the show to really get fans watching your content. Since the only people who had any issue with the writing at that point were hardcore fans of the books.. and their content has clearly not been directed towards the GoT fandom lol
Where can I read/watch those reviews?
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 they are on their yt channel called "westeros". th-cam.com/users/WesterosTVvideos
I don't think it will happen but I've always been a big fan of the idea that Bloodraven will take over Brans mind. Therefore when Bran sits the iron throne, it's really Bloodraven. I think taking away Bran chapters and making it a twist at the end would be the best way. It would be a version of the Scouring of the Shire.
To point out pandering isn't racist.
Dragon house cast a black man in an historically famous role.
One which never mentions him being black, and does mention his parents and his children as being whyt.
Could Aegon still be Serra’s son but not Illyrio’s? And Illyrio’s dedication to Aegon could make sense being he’s the son of her love? Perhaps sired on her by a Blackfyre?
Linda is based
I asked Elio a while ago on Discord what his thoughts were on the author on the Pink Letter. He believes 100% it was written by Ramsay Bolton.
Lol. Ummmm okay, definitely changes my opinion of his theory building.
@@hopedixon2133 are you being sarcastic? What do you mean?
@@Jesse-fd5bv I am being sarcastic. In my opinion (formed by Preston's...watch Who Wrote the Pink Letter video for more on that), the Pink Letter was probably written by Mance Rayder, Stannis, or a trouble maker inside Winterfell like a Manderly or somebody. We should not trust the obvious answer that GRRM presents of Ramsay Snow, and Jon of course falls for completely (IT'S A TRAP!!!!)
@@hopedixon2133 I completely agree with you, I believe it was Mance on Stannis' suggestion but the fact that Elio Garcia 100% thinks it's Ramsay is still weird. He even said (about Preston) ''If he doesn't believe it's Ramsay, he's wrong''
@@Jesse-fd5bv It is very weird and surprising...I've never paid much attention to their opinions before this video lol, and I'm glad lol
You prefer to read ADwD and AFfC over AGoT and ACoK, Preston? Have you ranked them before?
I prefer A Feast for Dragons ( both books read togerher)
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 I tried that during my reread. I preferred it to them being separate, mostly because some of AFfC is kind of boring and the chapters are longer. But, of course, it's personal.
I dont see why there could not be a mixture of genetics and magic. The books contain some magic in them, so the thing exist to some degree. Why would it be part of the world if you are not gonna use it in key plot points?
Twice in a day? Preston cant keep getting away with it.
I think egg lives long enough to become the villain and Dunkin’ kills him and exiles himself to the isle of Tarth
In Westeros how many days are in 1 year, how many hours in 1 day? What are the names of the days of the week? The months of the year?
I think GRRM's problem is, that late in life he realized writing about people being horrible people was way more fun than writing about Ice Zombie Apocalypses, and so his attention has shifted away from the end of the story and settled more on the "human" part of it. The more dramatic, who's banging who, trashy soap opera aspects.
I think it is incredibly hypocritical of Carmine to criticize Linda for spoiling upcoming book events while specifically describing her spoilers. Fuck him for throwing that out there. In this podcast they both felt like providing detailed context of who Elio and Linda are, to the few people who may not have known. Basic decency when discussing spoiler material is you either throw out a spoiler warning or you vaguely elude to a spoiler she mentioned for those of us who were not aware of this leak. Carmine should re-examine himself and/or offer an apology to Linda for having criticised her in the first place for doing that.
will this be on the pod feed?? Easier for me to listen there. Thanks guys. Will always like the YT vid too.
you guys gonna do a video on the new Raised by Wolves season?
Thanks for this
I still have not seen Season 8 either.
I'm way more excited for a Dunk and Egg show than anything else
I’m mainly waiting for WoW but it’s spring :/
"I'm way more interested in enabling GRRM's worst character flaws than anything else"
I kinda wish I could share your enthusiasm.
Like, returning to those 2011 feelings of excitement for Got/asoiaf tv produced content.
But I can't;
Between the show deliberately and maliciously dropping the ball, and George choosing to do, figuratively, _anything_ else except writing the series I sort of no longer have enjoyment in this franchise.
I'm mostly here because of Preston and Carmine.
I agree. Dunk and Egg is a simpler story that will be much more manageable for both Martin and the show runners.
@@EyeOfEld GRRM won't even be able to finish the Dunk and Egg story. And worse, he'll tailor those stories to comply with whatever demands the heads at HBO want
The Spanish speaker wouldn't complain about not being able to understand the English translator because they would understand the Spanish being spoken.
But Elio and Linda were speaking English.
You could have someone that is native speaker for another Language other than English or Spanish translating it doesn't have to be either or.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin I'm a patreon on the Maglor channel and initially this interview was thought to be completelly dubbed into Spanish. The Spanish dubbed version is available from two months ago. The English version was uploaded because some channel followers wanted to hear the original voices and because Maglor has a few English speaker followers (many of his videos have English subtitles but unfortunately this interview only has auto-generated English subtitles)
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin So if I've got this right the host was speaking Spanish and the guest English? If so then you're right, the host native language should given priority.
I would love Dany going crazy and kill people because she is Skinchanged by Bran. And in the end Bran sits on the throne in Danys body.
Bran steals someone's body for use as Proxy King in a horrifying act of violation BUT it's the Night King's body so it's all fine ethically.
A corpse of Jon, animated by Bran from the cave, on the Iron Throne - that's an ending I like!
On the comment about Eilo and Linda and there connection to George. I think George was close to a lot of his fans in the pre-HBO days. If you listen to Radio Westros Episode 4 from 2014. When they talk about the Brotherhood without banners and the things people would do the join and hang with George. And lets be real Worldcon was never really than big of Con. At least compared to Dragoncon, Gencon, or SDCC. So it was small group of super fans that could afford to travel every year often internationally. That is unlikely to be a big number of people.
As for Websites and Authors. My wife was big Harry Potter fan and I think there was similar site for that in the early 2000 that Joanne sited few times publicly admitting the same thing as George that the fans did a better job keeping track of facts than she did. Babylon 5 had the Lurkers Guide. I sure other fandoms had major fan sites in the era as well.
It seems like there would be plenty of material for another two Fire and Blood books. Picking up with Aegon III reign onward it feels like with his son the Young Dragon, the religious zealot Baelor and everything that takes place under Aegon IV, who Martin has compared with Henry VIII, that he could easily fill a volume that ends with the lead up to the Blackfyres. And the various Blackfyre rebellions through to Robert’s rebellion is more than enough to fill a third book.
Needed some content to download for a long flight, checks TH-cam......and we are back 🙂
Loved the podcast as usual 😇,a quick question,if the dragon splicing is true,wouldn’t that confirm that nettles is a dragon seed ?
Not necessarily. It's not either/or situation. Nettles basically tamed her dragon. Targaryens have then genes that enables them to fly the dragons. Nettles bought her flying ticket with sheep. Probably she doesnt have "the bond" with the dragon that says one rider one dragon until that rider dies. Technically, a dragonseed or Targaryen can bond with her dragon and steal it away.
What about the fact that Sara was pregnant with Fagon before Ilyrio’s first wife died? Its always possible
I wonder who the audiance is for which HBO is making these new shows? I would truly love to see the stats that are supporting this waste of resources.
I mean they had a divided fanbase and now with Rhaenira,Daemon and, of course, Corlys casting it's even more divided and full of arguments... I wish HOTD never came out.
Dude GoT was the most watched show in the history of television, there is likely to be an audience no matter how poorly the ending was received.
In Condal and Sapochnik I trust!
Forget the timeline, the fat man being Feagon's dad is a silly theory that doesn't make a lick of sense.
They should call the 3rd anthology Blackfire and Blood.
I'm so happy to find out I'm not the only one that stopped after season 5. Thought I'd jumped that ship alone. First Stannis, the greatest General in Westeros, marches his army straight into Boltons arms. Then those cheap cgi skeletons kill Jojen and Leaf starts throwing fireballs from her hands like she had a fire flower up her ass? I was apoplectic. Never watched another episode.
oh you missed so much cringe, it goes only further down the drain from that point. i am sure most book fans only kept on watching for the memes
@@dasaggropop1244 I knew it was coming. Hell it was already cringe. I mean wtf they walked around Moat Cailin? Huh why didn't anyone think of that before? I'm still pissed all these years later.
that, the sand snakes, and the sansa shit is what made me stop watching. season 5 was just abhorrent and i cant believe good will was strong enough for people to ignore it.
@@hinasakukimi dorne. they raped it, they murdered it, they killed its plotline...
@@dasaggropop1244 😭
Ily Preston and Carmine
I mean maybe Illyrio was having an affair with Sesra. Idk why he couldnt have Aegon out of wedlock. And the reason Varys cares is cause he could be a Blackfyre himself.
So I bought the first book when I came out, then forgot about the series for 10 years. Bought the next couple novels and thought, holy crap this is great. Two decades later and it's like, fuk, another Robert Jordan incoming.
When you came out? 🙂
Where do these podcasts take place? Because ik not all the episodes are on YT
Hell, I could write a pilot about Unella and Ellaria escaping the Red Keep during its destruction and teaming up to undermine the kingdom...
Couldn't Serra have had Aegon before she married Ilyrio? He's Ilyrio's step son, and as a dying wish Serra wanted his "birth-right" restored, and staging as Aegon is the most likely way to crown him?
47:51 I mean, then Others and the Valyrians are descended from the same race, no?
What if faegon is serra's bastard and illyrio simply loves serra's child?
On the subject of Illyrio and Serra's possible parentage of Young Griff, is it possible that Young Griff proports to be 18 (same age as his totally definitely legit true identity Aegon Targaryen), but is actually a few years older or younger? Isn't it a bit suspicious that JonCon was brought in to foster the kid several years after the rebellion, like maybe Young Griff was a slightly wrong age, and Varys&Illyrio were waiting until he was old enough that the discrepancy wouldn't be so obvious? Also, could Illyrio and Serra have married after Young Griff was born?
That’s a good point
Or he's just a bastard and Illyrio had an affair.
*purports
My inner Thousand-Worlds crackpot is now speculating that Planetos heraldry originated as designation of the unit or colony's solar system -- Valyrion the sea-goat Capricornus, Targaryen the multi-headed Hydra, Dayne some militant falling-star, etc. It's admittedly thin, but we know that Martin really likes Canticle for Leibowitz, and this (fallen medieval culture clinging on to futuristic knowledge they no longer understand) is a perfect 'fit' or 'homage' to same. Yowzers.
How did the prequel get greenlit? George approved of them writing a story he didn’t already create?