G.R.R.M. Wanted 10 Seasons of Game of Thrones (Podcast)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2024
- As it turns out, George R.R. Martin wanted 10 seasons of Game of Thrones and tried to convince producers to draw things out. Carmine and I discuss.
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Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil war among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
#asongoficeandfire
#gameofthrones
Daenerys: I should attack Kings Landing immediately.
Tyrion: No Attack Casterly Rock instead.
Daenerys: Okay, fine.
Euron destroys her fleet and kills her Dornish allys, Casterly rock ends up having no strategic value.
Daenerys: we should attack the red keep and end this war as quickly as possible
Tyrion: No, you must comply to the Geneva conventions your grace, burny burny bad, just overlook the thousands I burnt with wildfire at the blackwater.
Daenery: Okay, fine
The lannisters destroy highgarden the Tyrells and poisen lady Olenna.
Daenerys: I should kill Cersei in the red keep before I head north, otherwise Cersei will take back what we have won.
Tyrion: No Lets go get a white for Cersei, Cersei will help us, she will understand.
Daenerys: Okay, fine
Dany loses Viserion beyond the wall, Cersei then betrays Dany and takes back half the country.
Daenerys: Tyrion it's time to take out Cersei, are you sure you're not protecting your sister ?
Tyrion: You know what , I've got a better idea your grace, lets head north and help the Starks, they would make great allies, they would never betray you
Daenerys: okay , fine
Dany keeps her end of the bargain and saves the north, but Sansa and Bran prove untrustworthy. Dany also loses her father figure Jorah and half her army defeating the dead.
Daenerys: I should kill euron and destroy his fleet before he becomes a huge problem.
Tyrion: No, doing that won't help, it's a waste of time and resources your grace
Daenerys: Okay, fine.
Dany forgets about the iron fleet and Euron ends up flanking Daenery ships and kills Rhaegal.
Daenerys: OMG I have to save Missandei !!!
Tyrion: You should treat with Cersei, she's proven in the past at keeping her word.
Daenerys: Are you sure about this Tyrion, I can't lose my BFF.
Missandei is beheaded
Daenerys: You know what Tyrion? Go fu%k yourself.
Tyrion: oH my GoD, maD QuEEn maD QuEEn. ShE won'T liSTeN tO mE AnYMore, sHES LOst iT, KiLl HeR sNOw
Jon: sHes Ma QwEen
Tyrion : Surely you have something different to say snow, you've been repeating the same lines for 6 episodes now
Jon : I DoN't WaNt iT
Every word 😀😀😀
I wish I could give you a thousand thumbs up.
Tyrion ending up being the biggest laughing stock in season 8, I wouldn't of had a problem if dany would of dracarys his dwarf ass.
Lol pretty much
Poor Dany got crapped on by everyone, I would of lost my mind too, with the stupidity of the people around her.
Martin GAVE THEM his outline, after Season 3. They HAD all the materials. They simply chose not to do it. Just as they chose not to do Feast or Dance. They just like their version better.
The cut characters not books if you think about it they streamlined Jon Danny try room and bran and cut out a ton and added some bits but They got that backbone
I wish you and Preston did a crossover at some point, the concentration of white hot show hate would have created a new star.
big fan here of TDD, crossover when?
But Star Wars!
When you listen to the season 8 simps, they either act like everything in season 8 had GRRM's blessing or like Dumb & Dumber were left alone and came up with masterpieces or some shit
There is a parallel universe where the pandemic started a couple years earlier, they had to cancel the show over it, and it was forever remembered as an unfinished masterpiece.
Honestly that would be amazing!
'But we don't live in that World.'
I mean in the context of one of the most popular shows in history, with a network that was fabulously rich off of a dozen other highly successful shows, I don’t think it was insane to ask them to keep going another two seasons. Or to insist the last two seasons be ten episodes. I feel like HBOs real blunder wasn’t in considering the scope of the series but giving so much power to showrunners whose only real resume was earlier seasons of GoT
the problem was hbo had control over d&d but not grrm. so they completely sidelined grrm in like season two and started speedrunning clash of kings which should have taken two seasons but instead took half of one. so grrm got pissed but assumedly in his contract he couldnt say anything bad about it but hbo didnt care bc they had d&d, the guys running the show that made them money. fuck the guy who actually wrote the books bc he has way too much clout and we're not gonna let him anywhere near his own series.
and to make it even better, theyre doing the exact same thing again by consulting with a bunch of random tv writers about how to adapt fire & blood into house of the dragon, even though grrm fucking wrote fire & blood essentially as a pitch for a tv show. hbo is crazy and i hope grrm just finishes the books and hopes in a hundred years someone adapts his magnum opus right.
Yeah, though the money thing could be a problem. Everyone on the project starts demanding more money each season. Essential actors basically have all the leverage, so you end up having to cut the show or pay everyone whatever they want. Even for HBO, the budget can be a problem when the six most important actors start demanding 15 million each for one season.
From everything I've read behind the scenes, HBO wanted more, the show was making them plenty of money due to being so popular in Europe and elsewhere. It's all on D and D who wanted to move on but had too much of an ego to leave the show to be run by another exec producer.
@@La0bouchere I think that's an interesting thing to consider and I'm sure it was but their only reason to ask is because they know how much the show brings in. Not just the show but books, spinoffs, merch, clothing, decorations, licensing - all of that has to greatly outweigh the production costs or they wouldn't have asked for 10 seasons at all
Why does no one ever point out that they didn’t have to complete the series? They’re tired after 4 seasons? Fine step back to a more producer role and let someone that still has that drive to keep it going. The show could have been 10 great seasons, it was only getting MORE popular. But their egos got in the way.
agree, but they wanted all the credit for the whole show and were negotiating new big money deals from this success. Hbo and martin wanted more
They were not tired, they just thought they had enough success to jump into high budget Blockbuster movies 🤷
Ten or even thirteen seasons would have been nice. They should have been fired early on, and GRRM should have been allowed to have had more control over his art.
That's exactly my thought
they wanted to end with movies to boost their own careers, and they wanted to do this since SEASON THREE aired, as Hibberd admitted in his book
Preston are we really pretending 10 seasons of GoT wouldn’t be seen as a profitable investment?
This was the biggest show in TV history.
Preston is goofy sometimes. Hell, I think a guy mourning someone's death for a whole season isn't too crazy either. Any number of interesting things or conversations could happen while the person mourns. He writes ideas off so quicky.
Preston lacks imagination, which is odd considering all the out there theories he's come up with.
I always view it as hipster talk by Preston and Carmine showing its head. lol I tend to be like this as well sometime. You critic something then you want to be clever and take the opposite root.
The actors were being paid enormous amounts, but they could have been replaced with other lower priced actors. It would have made money, surely.
Dave and Dan were not forced to do this show. They came to George wanting to write a show about books that weren't finished. They did a poor job. I have no sympathy for them.
Absolutely. GRRM famously said the series was unfilmable, but I guess D&D thought they knew better. To be fair, if they'd involved GRRM more and we'd had more of the quality of writing of the first three seasons, mayhaps they would even have been proved right. They seem like they're very good at executing someone else's vision, but not so much their own.
If I could think of anyone to have helped out in the Writing room,I'd choose the same people who wrote the dialogue/scripts for Starz Spartacus series.
In my entire life I've never heard of a show that had Studio Approved Carte Blanche to do whatever they wanted to do with Budget not being an issue before Game of Thrones.
Go back to Season 5 and how the first 4 episodes were leaked online and it became the most Pirated TV show of All time, and the studio producers still said they were making more than enough money.
Think about how HBO's Rome fell due to budget concerns,leading to condensing 20 years of history into 2 seasons out of a planned 5 season arc.
The Budget was no problem,the actors were happy and eager to stay and well compensated,and the props/sets designers/cgi/music was more than stellar quality.
It all comes down to the egos in the Writing room not wanting to share Credit with anyone else.
I wish Rome had five seasons. Such a good show.
It really shows that having an unlimited budget doesn't guarantee quality
I don't see it. Spartacus didn't have the greatest writing and all negative things people said about Thrones as far as exploitative sex and violence, in Spartacus it's quadriple this. If anything Thones needed to get away from the "fun" violence. I would have approached the Black Sails people first. Pretty sharp writing.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 a writing element that doesn't get enough credit in Spartacus is the multi layered writing for the villians (Batiatus, and Crassus) and most importantly,the Women.( Gaia,Lucretia and Illithyia could rival Olenna Tyrell and Cersei Lannister in Cunning alone)
The writing/dialogue for the Women in this series could rival anything out of Game of Thrones.
Finally,the Moral Complexities of War were touched on in a far more complex manner consistently through the end of the series where Spartacus has to be one to have the unpopular opinion of
"maybe let's not kill all the Women and Children if it's not totally necessary"
And having to straddle the Line between a Freedom Fighter and Bloodthirsty Mad Man,combined with the Idealogical divide brewing in his army, dividing those who want to just escape Rome's grasp for Freedom and those who want to March on Rome itself and destroy it along with its Inhabitants.
From what I understand, everyone and their mother was 100% on board with the show lasting that long... except Dumb and Dumber; pretty much every failing with the show can be laid entirely at their feet, and it's possibly the worst kept secret in entertainment that they intentionally fucked the last season or two up so that they could end the show early and move on to that Star Wars series that they ironically got taken off of because they fucked GoT up so much.
So basically, if you see them on the street, do what you feel.
did they get binned because they fucked up GoT? haha
@@Gjudxdkjyzddhjnr7091 It's wasn't confirmed in any way (no leaks or rumors suggesting it), but it's not hard to believe considering the timing. I think Netflix also had a contract for something that I believe was also canned
@@socialjihad5724 serves them right. Season 8 was awful
@@socialjihad5724 my understanding is they got paid to do the starwars and basicly paid to step away from starwars.
I despise those two as well but I just wanna point out that no one should be using violence in the name of a damn tv show. I'm sure the OP was kidding...
How ridiculous is it to argue that two more seasons was too much of an ask for HBO’s most popular show ever.
Also, you guys speak about D&D having to go from adapting to writing as if HBO wouldn’t throw millions of dollars at a writers room, again for their most successful show ever. Writers who could and would happily work with GRRM to finish the show.
@@Richard_Nickerson if makes no sense.
The dynamic duo are back!! Put on your winter tinfoil hat and idk tell someone. Maybe your mum it’s the holidays after all.
I keep a puff ball on the top of my tinfoil hat during winter.
Why do people say that D&D are great at adapting? Wasn't Wolverine Origins an adaptation of several Wolverine comics?
A fair point
they are good at copy pasting.
What I don't get is that if Dumb & Dummy wanted out and everyone else involved wanted more, why didn't HBO just let them go and get new showrunners?
Some studio exec wanted to cover their arse no doubt. I see this all the time in my industry, nobody wants to put their neck on the line and take a risk. If they force the showrunners to stick to their contract and the show ends badly, everyone blames the showrunners (they made 4 good seasons so who could have guessed they'd then make 4 bad ones?), whereas if they let them go and hire new showrunners who also turn out to be bad, suddenly it's the exec's fault for letting them go.
DnD should've handed the show off to somebody else. If you're done, you're done, but there were surely no shortage of writers who would've loved to work of GoT - and would've brought real passion to the material. The fact that DnD were done with GoT but refused to hand the project off to somebody else reeks of ego. But I can forgive ego if it at least comes with passion. But the episodes DnD wrote for the latter half of GoT are so passionless, so empty. They didn't care about the characters anymore, and it shows. More than anything, it's a real shame that GoT died so quietly, so unperceptively, and then had its corpse dragged around on display for 4 seasons. None of the characters feel remotely like themselves after season 4.
They are egotistical asshats, you think they would surrender got?
At one point GRRM said there was enough material for 12-13 seasons, and there would have been, if George had ever bothered to finish the books. If books 6 and 7 had been published by 2017-ish they would have had enough material to work with, but as it was the show-runners had to make up most of the ending.
I mean sure, but at the same time, they signed up to make the series knowing the books were unfinished. They accepted the risk that they'd eventually have to go off-book. It's hard to believe that the showrunners of one of the most successful shows ever were unable to attract high calibre writers to finish the series (especially given that they had George's outlines and knew where the series was going).
@@TheDelinear I don't think there's any reasonable expectation of risk involved. If an experienced author signs up to have their story turn into a television series, that author is excepting the responsibility of getting the story completed so it can be adapted properly. Instead he just gave them an outline.
If George is unhappy with how the show ended, the blame ultimately lies with him.
You can't just tease us with that Witcher line at the end there...
10 seasons of 10 episodes each would have been perfect.
“When people die, it takes them a long time to recover”
Preston Jacobs
This is a take I wasn't expecting. Asking for 2 more full seasons isn't unreasonable for this show. They certainly had the material to flesh out those storyline. However, I still don't think it would have been good. There were a lot more problems with GoT then just breakneck storylines.
The problem was they had too much material and obviously only had a superficial understanding of where the story was to go after the Red Wedding. In the end, we can only blame George. He personally picked D&D, he didn't finish the books fast enough so the show could adapt them, and he apparently didn't sufficiently explain what his vision was past season 5 given the pile of turd we received. D&D proved they could make a good adaptation. They also proved that they suck ass at original writing when only an outline is provided.
I hope he redeems himself with Winds and A Dream because GOT is thought of as a joke now. Like Lost or Dexter, good shows that started with a bang and ended with a whimper. Mostly forgotten now. Hopefully the books will be so good that we'll get a re-adaptation or series of movies in a decade. I fear time is not on the book reader's side though.
It hurts. It still hurts. It will always hurt. One of the GREATEST fantasy series of all time and…💁🏾♂️
While 10 seasons would have helped with stuff like pacing and fleshing out certain storylines and character archs, with D&D still in charge of the writing, it would have been a less painful disaster.
they ran out of source material it would have just been two season more of crap becuase george wont finish the series this is on him as much as dnd
@@420bengalfan They did not run out of source material. They super condensed, over simplified, or flat out ignored entire sections from Feast of Crows and Dance of Dragons. Outside of character names, Book Dorne and TV Show Dorne have nothing in common. Brienne, Sam, and Yaara's stories are basically gutted. Young Griff, Quentyn Martell, and Victarion are completely removed. While stories from Arya and Tyrion are reduced to pale shadows of their book selves.
So they did not run out of Source Material. If anything the problem is that they had far too much source material and they deliberately chose to ignore most of it. I could understand that choice for the sake of adapting to a different medium, except for the fact that D&D gave us watered down content or garbage to replace it.
@@nunouno001 so it hasnt been ten years since george released a book but dont worry he is hard at work any day now it will be out
@@nunouno001 they super condensed and ignored characters and story lines the whole show they show runners didnt know where to go with the show after a certain point because they didnt have a road map anymore because george got rich and lazy and will never finish the series and wont ever even release winds of winter because despite whatever he wants to say about a show that ended bad he doenst know how to end it either
@@420bengalfan Not having source material is such a pathetic excuse for poor writing and lackluster storytelling.
If D&D had any degree of actual talent they could have taken advantage of the creative blank check to tell their story. Sure it would have lost the George RR Martin flavor, but it would have been their story to tell.
Instead they decided to half ass everything and jump ship to Star Wars where they didn’t have HBO good graces to protect them from getting canned.
Also while I’m not going to say George is blameless, please keep in mind that he’s in his 80s and has been involved in numerous projects beyond Ice and Fire. He’s one person and can only work so fast. D&D are Middle Ages and have an entire production team behind them, that they abused, and still fucked everything up.
My evolution from hating Carmine in the beginning, to now considering throwing his $12/yr. on Patreon, is complete. Life is a journey.
Dan and Dave just gave up though, they wrote themselves into a corner of clusterfuck.
This is one of the most difficult and infuriating podcasts to try keep up with. One episode's on this channel then that channel, this person uses one thumbnail the other uses that, episodes aren't even being numbered anymore and the playlist hasn't been updated in over a year lol and here we are... still coming back
Preston should always talk about politics. A Song of Ice and Fire is heavily invested in the moving parts of politics, as is GRRM.
he tends to shy away from it when people disagree with his takes, though.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 That's smart too ;)
@@nicholsonfile or how about just debate instead of fleeing lol
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 Both are chill. Gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em, as they say
HBO wanted to give GoT 10 seasons. It was D&D that wanted out.
If they did an half decent job at writing the show after season 4, they could have easily made 10 Seasons of GoT. The story in 7 and 8 was so rushed and the general story was cut down into some main storylines. This could have been prevented with more season. I also don't see the budget argument. It was the most successful show and there were no sign that it would change, if -of course- you keep the quality.
That was very big of Carmine to apologize for butting in and trying to dampen Preston's political talk on the live streams. That said, Preston on REAL topics, is Preston at his BEST, imho.
Really wasn't that big of a deal some of you guys are making it out to be, there's always bad actors roaming around trying to raid and cause issues whenever there's a political discussion going and carguy was trying to prevent that.
@@dummyaccount4036 sure, but also Preston is pretty savvy about these things, he seems like he can generally spot when someone is trying to goad or troll him and his way of engaging with those people shows skill and nuance. Sometimes I get the impression that Carmine would prefer not to upset the trolls (which I DO NOT blame him for, there are some nasty people online and nobody should have to deal with their crap just to make a podcast) whereas Preston is more like, "screw the trolls, I have a platform and these things are important to say", and I know a lot of us appreciate that from him.
@@TheDelinear "I get the impression that Carmine would prefer not to upset the trolls " I'm pretty sure he said "i want you to have a good time" so more or less looking out for the guy. nice friendship goals
It's clear that D&D probably knew after Season 4 they couldn't follow the massive amount of plotlines that Feast and Dance create to a satisfying conclusion. Even GRRM seems to be struggling to do that. Maybe it was lazy to not even try, but they instead tried to reduce the number of plot threads and bring everything to a quick conclusion, resulting in the rushed and sloppy final seasons. I honestly can't be that mad at them though because writing Game of Thrones was never what they signed up for. I just hope GRRM can actually finish the novel, and then just maybe we get another adaptation some day.
i hope that in like 10+ years when the pain of the finale is mostly washed away and maybe we at least have twow they could try doing an animated adaptation. i honestly think it would suit the story much better: there wouldn’t be as many budgetary restrictions, the scale could be much larger, the magic and fantastical elements would be better expressed, etc.
You're one of the few people who actually gets it.
@@aquilaorion3531 - I've wanted an animated adaptation since I picked up the first book and saw every character's true age. A gritty, 18+ animated series could show the harsh world of ASOIAF in all its horrifying glory.
I think the worst thing about how they handled presenting the story past what was already canon or supplied by GRRM in advance of the unpublished sequels was how much material *they had* but threw away for whataver creative/ logistical reasons. Lady Stoneheart! (F)Aegon / Young Griff and Jon Connington! The ACTUAL DORNE STORY and the Queen-maker plot which would have shown a "strong female lead" with agency and plans of her own who is not raped, tortured or killed OR becomes and emotionless killing machine and/or shows contempt for other women. Oh - PLUS a would-be-hero whose travels would show just how much devastation and unrest Essos was experiencing following Dany's march of conquest.
Arya's actual training regimen, which could have been tied into the storyline from the Wall and King's Landing and maybe showed anything but whatever stupid nonsense they put in about how the waif hated her and how being beaten in the streets while blind helps you become a master fencer and face changer. Victarion, whose dim-witted adventures would be both grotesque AND kinda funny. The real spooky Euron instead of...whatever that was. Prophesies and dreams, which they first said they didn't want at all until they realized that some of them drove actual plotlines.
How much time was wasted with the show's original characters like "Brother Ray" mouthing nonsense rather than Elder Brother or Septon Maribold and their original dialog and stories? Why introduce Locke and "Karl Tanner" when there were plenty of characters at the Wall who could have taken their roles? Myranda was made into a large character for what reason? To give Ramsey a disturbing kind of "love triangle" story?? I would have rather they ended incomplete if only to avoid the awfulness of the seasons past 4.
D&D had been asked by Disney during the filming of season 7 to write for starwars, this is why the ending felt rushed, because they wanted to end a story they've been writing for years and move onto starwars
I think they were also suffering from burn out because there were too few writers for such a huge show.
Dude i love hearing Preston talking about politics. Should do it more often. Genuine discussion is fun
I always knew this was the reason that caused the relationship between grrm and d&d to sour.
You're a real good dude Preston. Following you for a while and appreciate all aspects of what you do and how you do it.
I disagree about the season 4 stuff
Battles are a lot more interesting to watch than to read about, especially from an on the ground level
It makes sense to expand on one of the books major battles when adapting it
GRRM: Give me 10 seasons
Hbo: You'll get your 10 seasons when you finish this damn book series
They had material
8:30 "when people die it takes them a lot of time to recover"
Who knew?
Feels like this podcast was cut off super abruptly
I think they usually do a longer chat and then cut it into parts and put some here and some on Carmine's channel so maybe the next part will show up there soonish (or maybe they had to cut unexpected Witcher spoilers XD)
With all due respect to PJ, GRRM was right and HBO wanted 10 seasons and could have gotten them, but D&Dumber wanted out. Too expensive? GoT was an ATM. Can't keep the quality up? Try multiple TV shows with twenty-two episodes a season. Fact was GRRM didn't have the goods. And he never will.
Where are the longer segments updated?
The show quality got worse when they dropped GRRM and started skipping the books stories. 10 seasons as good as seasons 1-4 would have been good television.
WoT is becoming the perfect example of just how hard it is to plan out a show for several seasons. Just in their first season, Brandon Sanderson, the showrunner, and Amazon have had several disagreements. The showrunner said that he got over 1,000 notes from Amazon execs just for the pilot. Production of the show was shut down multiple times due to the pandemic. Then the actor who plays Mat left the show more than half way through the season. Can you imagine how hard it would be to plan out a show for 10 seasons if all that crazy stuff happened just in the first season?
Wait Brandon Sanderson is the show runner for wheel of time? Zamn!!
@@celebalert5616
Not what the guy wrote.
Rafe Judkin is showrunner.
Sanderson has presumably been hired as a writer.
@@alanpennie8013 zamn why you lying to me troll
I love those podcast snippets but I never understood where I can listen to the entire episodes. Can somebody please tell me?
I don’t believe the story ends with Bran becoming king, I think D&D just chose to end it there, but there was more after. Could be wrong.
Hmm, interesting point. I never thought about it that way, because in my mind it was always the "In the books it's going to be a semi cosmic horror ending because Bran is being possessed by an older entity that nobody of the human factions fully understands, but at least he will keep the Westerosi in check" and all the implications THAT brings with it. But I never thought that maybe it's not exactly/just that.
Although, timing-wise it would HAVE to be very late. Everyone is still really far away from that point, and even if it's at the very end of the story, the books would need to pick up some speed already.
@@glanni it’s a story about not even your thoughts being safe once someone like Brandon becomes king. Think about it.
He is big brother. He is the surveillance state. Even if part of the ‘good’ Bran still exists. What he turns into HAS to be frightening, otherwise what’s the point?
@@MC-el2us Totally agree! It's scary because while Bloodraven already spied on whoever they wanted, he was only a creepy dude in tree roots once he got his powerup, while Bran is the actual head of the political, and maybe even religious structure of Westeros.
All thanks to big tree, smh.
@@MC-el2us That's why I think Tyrion's arc is to eventually have an indigestion of power, serving as Bran's hand would bring him over the edge after all the horrors he caused himself seeking power for revenge with Daenerys, and I think he would kill Bran and the last dragon (his childhood dream).
Compare GOT to the most recent Dune movie. In Dune it's apparent the writer, director, and decision makers all knew the source material inside and out. They understand what the story is, what can be cut, and what can't. They especially understood how to pace it.
In GOT it first appeared D&D knew the source material well, and their pacing was ok, but it quickly became apparent that without actual DETAILED source material they could not comprehend the trajectory of the story. Honestly, I don't blame them. It's apparent the books are headed to some weird places and if George put an outline with consciousness time travel, futuristic ruins and technology, and vague grey endings for beloved characters I'd stumped as well. Clearly they had no idea what they were doing by the final season and were just winging it with whatever George gave them and fan theories.
Two more seasons wouldn't have helped unless HBO sacked D&D and gave the series to someone who understands the story well AND can write original material to fill in the outline.
And I wanted a new asoiaf book sometime in the last decade. You can't always get what you want, George.
I think Dave, Dan and others did a great job till season 4.
I might be guilty for Preston 1 view from Burundi, I used to send his stuff to a friend who lives over there.
Even though Carmine messed up the joke, I still laughed
Awe, and on your livestreams you acknowledged me 😁
PJ IS BACK FOMOS
idea for when hotd is on break - how would you adapt feast/dance?
Wasn't their whole thing, this whole time that the show needed more seasons, now they're saying the opposite?
9 seasons, 90 episodes, if it actually stuck close to the books the whole way through & followed a detailed outline of Winds and Dream, this would've been perfect.
GRRM connecting to all 3 Sarah Connors is pretty awesome in light of time-traveling Bran. If Preston is right about the single timeline that gets rewritten 1000 times to avoid a post-apocalypse where humans are destroyed by soulless husks, and if the Children of the Forest are Bran's time-traveling opposition, this all turns out to look a lot like Terminator.
I never knew how great and long the books are hbo could have easily made 15 seasons ... there was so much stuff they cut
What happened to the live streams?
So Wheel is burning through the first book with season 1, really leap frogging plot points but at the same time, they are skipping so much that will need to be shown at some point due to the importance of the characters that they are skipping. I'm curious how many seasons they think 14 books will make if they are jumbling it around. Book readers will understand it when I say if they omit all the hair pulling, sniffing and clothing description, it could be maybe 5.5 books tops...
I heard somewhere that they want 7-8 seasons. I read the books for the first time over the last 12 months, and enjoyed the experience, but yeah, it could have been a LOT more concise and still been satisfying. When compression for adaptation, i think 7 or 8 can work.
@@FranzPerez21 7-8 sounds like a good number. I think any more than that and it becomes too much. We will begin to see franchise fatigue. The books are good, overall. I am really glad you enjoyed reading them. I struggled with actually reading them and ended up getting through them by listening to the audio books which are fantastically narrated. I highly, highly recommend reading Leigh Butler's Wheel of Time Read and ReRead with her summaries of the chapters and commentary of them. They are older and she did them while books were still being released but she's a) hilarious and b) extremely insightful.
I've been spending the past two hours writing how I would have done Dany's war and I think it's going really well.
Spoiler Alert: Dany has reason to go nuts and become a ruthless tyrant, but doesn't need to float around invading King's Landing for two seasons.
anyone here has a copy of Preston’s LIVE videos? i was gonna watch it but its now private.
Merry Christmas guys! Would you guys pay to see a game of thrones retold in a animated anime style format in the style of Castlevania on Netflix ? Btw I became a dad recently so wish me luck lol
Omg please
@Carmine, thank you for looking out for Preston during live streams.
I think GRR was right, ten series would have been the right number. HBO with it's mode doesn't follow the regular US channel model. D&D should have passed the programme onto others. I had completely forgotten that beauty died in Beauty and the Beast. Bu the idea of one years mourning sounds good.
As for Wheel of Time, they can just skip like 6 books and not really lose anything that matters. Also TV shows don't have to follow the books at all.
16:00 im still annoyed they cut out the ghost of high heart and lady stoneheart
Did George offer to stay on the show if it got 10 seasons?.. i would rather have gotten his idea of an ending to the story on TV, than not at all
You two going to have a look at an review of the witcher season 2?
Agree about Witcher season 2 - I am able to enjoy because I know about the emotional content in the books and I fill in the gaps, but I have no idea why they make sure to cut key scenes of character development in favor of generic basilisks and discussions about not having chicken enough. Maybe they just think everybody wants VFX and dumb monsters 🤷 Was probably the same issue with GoT - they wanted to get bigger and forgot to tend to the story
I live near Shanghai and i might be living in Xiamen which is across from Taiwan
They should do an animated version and use the same actors as voice actors, to make up for the shit plots they made them do
Wow, I feel like you guys are being really off-base and deluded here.
Isn’t the point that only three books were ever adapted into four seasons? Because that’s all I ever saw. I don’t know what show you guys were watching, but I’ve still never Feast or Dance adapted to film, and almost certainly never will now. Given that we’ve had an 8-season series based on the books, that’s what I find upsetting.
There is one more angle we're not considering here
Most of the episodes from seasons 1-7 were written and directed by other people, while seasons 7 and 8 were where Dumb & Dumber were at their most hands on, even writing and directing a few
Even if they were burnt out, all they had to do was hire a competent writer and director to let the show flow at its own pace, and they sometimes even hired GRRM to direct season 1 and 2 episodes
And considering that people like Macabre Storytelling actually work as hollywood script editors...
EDIT: in fact, a better writer already HAS written an exact CGI castle siege in GoT involving northmen and wildlings with a massive number of invaders + mystical creatures/defenses, while using a lower budget than the Long Night without having to make everything dark: the Battle of Castle Black
Here's a vid with all the writing and directing credits for each episode: th-cam.com/video/PCgTJNxUDCE/w-d-xo.html
Wrong. D&D wrote most of the episodes All throughout the series. And they also directed before.
@@WWESVRGAMER bruh, just read the writer and director credits, they're right there in the post
@@Necroxion they literally wrote every Episode for Each season but three. For final 2 seasons they wrote every Episode but two each.
@@WWESVRGAMER welp, rewatched it myself and yeah, can confirm
Still though, they let other people write season 3 and had other people direct often, so why not do that again with the 20 million that HBO gave them for the Long Night?
@@Necroxion how would that change anything? They are showrunners and decide what ultimately happends.
Which was a fantasy no one bothered to talk him out of because they had his series and they didn’t care after that
Is it unrealistic to ask for more seasons when HBO themselves wanted more seasons
Maybe if TWOW and ADOS were fully completed or if George would have personally come in and wrote the remaining seasons himself (given D&D wanted to leave), yes. But the latter option even more ruins our chances of ever getting TWOW and ADOS, and it would have been impossible for him to fix Seasons 5-8 (and unwanted changes in earliers seasons) [it was already ruined], so overall, I'm glad GoT finished with 'just' 8 seasons, to have it over with (let the pain end); let's push instead for a remake after the release(s) of TWOW and/or ADOS.
He probably gave them a one-page outline written in crayon, chuckled when they asked him about another novel, then waddled off to work on video games and trains. 🙈🙉🙊
Wheres that episode we were promised?!?!
oh god witcher season 2
bingewatched it in a day in the hope that it will get better and it just got worse.
Nice to hear Carmine quasiquote Romancing the stone.
Martin wanted more seasons and we want the damn books. Glass houses..
Facts. Play a record
17:40 - Come on Carmine, Witcher and GoT can't be compared. Yes they deviated from the books, but 1 the changes still were thematically appropriate, kept the feel and message of the show and it was somewhat necessary, because in the books you can have dozens of pages of expositional dialogue with historians about the conjunction of spheres and how monsters and elves and dwarves and the rest all came to be on the Continent, but that's not suitable for TV. So they created a character that would tie the entire history into the present and worked off of that.
Now that's not to say the show doesn't have faults, there were some weaker moments, and I do really miss the Dear Friend letter, honestly I think they kinda cut a lot of the humor out in the show, minus Jaskier who is of course brilliant as always and his song is fire.
Eskel was done dirty from gamer bro perspective, but like, he is a minor character who only appears in 1 book so honestly fuck him, the showrunner gave a perfect justification, they wanted to kill off a character with a recognizable name to showcase the decline of witchers, and obviously killing off random no-names would not have had any impact whatsoever. So quite frankly all the Eskel simps can go fuck right off, it's not a valid criticism to conflate Witcher 3 game Eskel with book Eskel or show Eskel, they're very very different.
Seeing comments questioning how it was "risky" to continue GoT i think an important point to consider is the sort of great man attitude about television. I imagine if hbo called for more seasons and dnd said no and they got replaced and the show tanked it would kind of blow up in their faces and have impacts on their long term plans. Additionally i believe dnd owned the production side of the show or were at least in charge if s great deal of it. The show was complicated to make and replacing any part of that wouldve probably been a nightmare. Bottom line imo is the show was rotten for a while and more time wouldn't have fixed horrible attitudes by the lead creators.
i wanted a diamond tiara for my birthday. didn't get it
If Dan and Dave didn't want to do that many seasons then they could have handed it off instead of writing their own ending.
"... and wanted a god damn book a couple years ago". Guess we are all disappointed...
Why did you move to Taiwan?
His wife's work took them there.
Back are we and
That'd would just extended the clusterfuck. From season 5 onwards, the snowball just got bigger.
my favorite show is stargate SG1, its 10 seasons... If I where re-watching it, id stop at season 8, - Buffy id stop at season 4 or 5, the strain Id stop at season 3 and ignore season 4... however Game of thrones, a show that was so important me, it encompassed a huge part of my life, I'll probably never watch it again.
Seasons 9 of SG1 was originally going to to season 1 of a brand new show called "stargate command", which is why everything is different
BACK!!!!!!!
HBO themselves wanted more seasons. So money or budget were not an issue. There is no doubt in my mind that the show suffered cause D & D had enough. There's where you saw acceleration, teleportation, and continuity errors. And they did things too quickly and characters motivation suffered cause they were jumping up oups to end it. Would have been simpler to calm things down and get new show runners. It would have been easy to do 10 seasons. They would have had the time to do things properly.
Cant agree with the core ideas this episode:
_Yeah, demanding 10 seasons from studio heads is weird from the start, but once the success had it, it's a fair demand. One that can get shut down due to money reasons ofc, but it makes sense if you consider that a core problem of the last season was that it rushed a bunch of its plot, especially the Danny-turns-evil stuff. If they'd taken their time, they wouldnt have needed so many character teleports in S7-8 and they couldve done some plot lines they cut (Faegon?), assuming they plan it early.
_Im 6 episodes into Witcher S2 and so far, Im loving it as much if not more than S1: effects and monster design are better, costumes are less shit (nilfgaard armor!). I dont give a hoot if it follows the books. Controversial maybe, but Ive read the Witcher books and they're... fine. Not amazing.
To me, the Witcher is this: decent fantasy books that were famous locally, but no great success. Bought as a bargain by CDPR and turned into an uber successful series of games that has done more to popularise the image of Geralt, Ciri, Triss and Yen. People dont complain about the Triss' actress appearance out of love for the writing, but because she isnt like in the games.
Ive also enjoyed the Witcher series more than I did the books, as in, the series was a highlight of that year and I rewatched it multiple times. I didnt read the Witcher books more than once.
So this all being said, I dont care that they dont adapt them faithfully. They made a fun story so far, Ill watch the rest when I get time and that's that for me. No idea why people are hating, seems a bit like crybabies being unhappy it wasnt exactly as they wanted. Differences from a source material is not an issue, as long as the end product is good.
"Someone in mourning for a year. Oh GOD, like- What?!"
.... Because THE BEAR is just a boring misery fest. Haha
I sometimes think Preston says things just to go against the grain and he ends up sounding a lot dumber than he actually is.
5:30 they should’ve brought Ice T onto game of thrones, would’ve watched ten seasons of that easy
The amount of seasons doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. They could have had 13 seasons and it would have still sucked for the simple fact that D&D can't write anything near the quality that GRRM produces.
Carmine and Preston back together.
Aww.
i cannot understand your guys criticism’s for season four. it’s literally the best season behind season three.
Seriously a couple more seasons that may have not ruined the legacy of the show and could have developed the story and characters more would have been a worse option than the ending we got and an ending of a very good show that became synonymous with "bad ending"?