Doesn't matter to me whether or not Jacobs's plot theories are right or wrong in relation to GRRM's vision. What they do provide is a solid foundation for a compelling and intricate story. A story that is likely as good as we're going to get, given Martin is not going to finish ASOIAF. So fanfic away good sir and avid minions, because so far it has been a very good start to the journey.
I gotta agree with Preston's stance on including his own theories. They are well-researched, well-thought out and serve as good backdrop to build specific scenes and character moments on. The surprise for us die hard Preston fans will be less in the overarching schemes but rather in more specific actions. Like we know that Preston believes Darkstar to be innocent and this whole mission to bring him down a sham, but that Obara would so brazenly murder Balon Swan and the Lannister men out in the desert is still a surprising moment that fits both the characters and the larger theory behind it. Personally, I find it quite rewarding to spot these hints at past Preston theories in the fanfic chapters. It feels like payoff for years of being a Preston fan. Even if a lot of these theories don‘t come true in GRRM‘s version, they are still compelling and grounded and it's great to have a version of the story, where they do come true and we can witness the fallout from things like the Dornish master plan! Plus, there are still some stories that Preston doesn't really have any theories about (Sam, Jaime & Brienne, Arianne) so I‘m betting there will still be quite a few surprises moving forward.
Plus, anyone who wants to do a theory free project is certainly free to do so. Why ask someone to abandon their own ideas to perform an artistic endeavor?
Reading this chapter genuinely inspired me to get back into the books. If the rest of Sweetrobin’s fan-fic is even close to this level of quality, we are all in for a treat!
Preston; as someone who has followed your channel for years, I don’t care about if your plot twist theories are real. I want to see what the story is after those twist are made real, cuz it would still make a great story. Unless you Dan & Dave that shit, please keep that level of intricacy that The Fat Man is famous for.
That chapter was so. damn. good. I was on the edge of my seat during the final sparring game into Obara's ambush. I felt so damn bad for Areo too, watching him slowly piece together that Doran had planned all of this, and how monstrous it was, even from him as he realized he had to let it happen was just... fuck, man.
As a writer (Daenerys, didn't have time for Hotah, working on Prologue now) I didn't submit a full chapter, just about 40% of one about the subject matter I found most interesting. I wrote fairly experimentally with the hope that Preston and the editors would take what they liked and leave the rest, like I was contributing to something rather than wanting it to stand alone. I can understand wanting to publish your original submission, but for me I'd rather stay just a collaborator.
I don't mind that after watching all Preston's theories I wouldn't be as surprised, there are still a huge blank canvas in many areas of the story and reading them in this style of the project is amazing. What are the Tyrell's planning? What will the Greyjoys do after the battle of blood? What will Quentyn do after re-appearing? Will the Vale invade the Riverlands, if so who'll win and which faction will they support between the Lannisters, Stannis, Faegon and Dany?
Also it's all very well to guess at the plans or motives of characters, but Preston and the other writers also then need to consider how they play out TOGETHER, as in, how the stories interract and interrupt each other, so there will definitely be more surprises!
This is super cool. He’s got two chapters done already and there were already 11 sample chapters he can work in. He’s putting out about 1 chapter per month so he should complete A Dream of Spring in……*looks up how many chapters were in A Dance with Dragons*…. a little over 11 years. Why am I suddenly worried about Preston’s health?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but if GRRMs Winds of Winter released tomorrow, I would buy it immediately. Since I can’t, I’ll take the next best thing while I continue to wait.
There are interesting parallels between this fanfic project and the Finnish epic Kalevala. Kalevala is written by Elias Lönnrot. The writing process started with making journeys in Eastern Finland and collecting poetry that was passed down by generations as oral literature. After collecting the poems he formed a plotline and wrote himself the "missing" chapters forming a coherent whole from originally independent poems. I see Preston doing here something very Lönnrot like but only communicating through internet instead of actually making a journey through countryside.
Horse/Logistics nerd thing! Having multiple horses, especially if you plan on moving quickly, is pretty normal. Everyone having a remount would be pretty expected, especially knights, who would generally at least have a warhorse for battle/jousts, a riding horse for everyday, and maybe a pack horse. This is something GRRM knows, that's why at the start of The Hedge Knight Dunk inherits three horses, Thunder, Sweetfoot and Chestnut. Still, I suppose that means that 50 guys arrive at High Hermitage with 200-300 horses, and you can still have a lot of fun with that. Maybe Darkstar jokes that they are horse traders, or rustlers.
Why do people complain? This is GREAT! When you're listening to Preston Jacobs version of WoW, you should not complain about it going along with some of his main theories. If you don't like that, do your own fan-made version which supports your certainly-much-better theories.
I really quite like some parallels here - like Fake Myrcella mirroring fake Arya in the North, but I'm not sure *everything* has to be a parallel - like Obara's wounds. We do need to feel this world is large and varied - and things can happen in a lot of different ways, rather than the world being locked into a tight series of repeating events like in the Belgariad or something.
The basic writing and the fact that he is an observant is why i like his chapters so much. It is really refreshing to stumble upon these (as a non native speaker who reads the books in english). And the thing about it not being "ice and fire" is just odd, these differences are what makes it Ice and fire.
I mean, people who watch Preston's channel probably expect to see his vision and how his theories play out in the bigger story (well, at least I do). What stops any and all other asoiaf theorists from gathering their communities and starting their own fanfiction projects with their theories at the forefront? The more, the merrier! I'd read all of them, but please, don't take the joy of this project away from it's creator.
Didn't think we'd have to worry about spoilers in a fan fiction, but here we are. Then again, anything outside the released chapter has to have spoilers as it involves either the upcoming plots of the next chapter or the reasons for choices in the just released one. As for the upcoming prologue, I think it'd be better to have the POV be a Septa. We've got so much already for maesters or their attendants (two prologues, an epilogue, and most of Sam's) who were all male, but not much for those that serve the Seven much less a nun.
Preston, I doubt you will read this. Since day one you have been a source of entertainment and mental stimulation for me. Respect. Like put me to bed and keep me up type shit. You are a hero
Carmine’s Winds version: stannis kills the night king (?) in the first chapter, little finger gets to be hand of the king, gilly dies of greyscale, ygritte comes back undead and is eaten out by John Snow.
I definitely dont mind the presence of theoretical plot points within the narrative and i definitely enjoy the ideas youve had on dorne. The qyburn inclusion has always puzzled me though and ive felt Quentyn being alive made a lot more sense than that ever really did to me. Some connections he has to them can definitely be found and your deeper dorne videos are great about that but even when his council is pushing cersei in poor directions ive always felt hes kind of a self motivated mad scientist who has far more interest in doing monstrous things to women he captures than serving foreign princes
(19:43) Myrcella is stupid? According to whom? The only person that thinks Myrcella is stupid is Jon Snow. And he doesn't even know her, and he calls her stupid because she's smitten with Robb. On the other hand, this is a quote from Ser Arys Oakheart ABOUT Myrcella Baratheon: "The truth was, THE PRINCESS was braver than her brother, and brighter and more confident as well. Her wits were quicker, her courtesies more polished. Nothing daunted her, not even Joffrey." (The Soiled Knight, AFFC) And btw, the girl we see in the Queenmaker chapter does behave like the real Myrcella. When Myrcella is given information that directly contradicts her notions of whom should the Iron throne: “Mother, what does he mean?” Princess Myrcella asked the queen plaintively. “Isn’t Joff the king now?” (Eddard XIV, AGOT) "Confused, Myrcella clutched Arys Oakheart by the arm. Why do they call me Grace? she asked in a plaintive voice. Ser Arys, what is this place, and who are they?" (The Queenmaker, AFFC) She also immediately reacts when Tommen's safety appears to be in question: "Oh, Princess Myrcella cried. She scrambled out of the box and ran to her little brother." (Sansa I, ACOK) "Princess Arianne? The girl threw her arms around her. Why do they call me queen? Did something bad happen to Tommen?" (The Queenmaker, AFFC) She tends to enphasise words (Which, to be fair, many characters do) "We’re children, Myrcella declared haughtily. We’re SUPPOSED to be childish." (Sansa I, ACOK) (This also shows that Myrcella is not afraid of Joffrey) "Myrcella did not understand. I thought YOU were the Rhoynar. You Dornishmen, I mean." (The Queenmaker, AFFC) This shows that the author took Myrcella's 3 previous interactions when he wrote The Queenmaker chapter. But the thing is, I agree with you on a thematical level that there was a swap. However, I think the swap happen DURING The Queenmaker chapter. Specifically when Arianne calls for a halt and the rest for a bit, Because Myrcella is tired. And after this pause, Arianne doesn't interact with "Myrcella" (Now Rosamund) again.
I don't think RedTeamReview realizes that posting everybody's chapter at once is a bad idea. It will only lead to comparing and infighting because there's always those few who will get a big head and start making demands. It's not about individual recongnition, bit community recongnition. Just because Preston is the face, doesn't mean he's taking credit. This project is a collaboration and the terms have been stated. But there are those with ill intention that will try to destroy or benefit from this project.
Love, love, love it. Thank you. And I agree with most everything that was said. Except I think Areo Hotah's guilt could have been written ambiguously and been just as good, or better. But I love it this way for sure.
Dude. PJ is the one who set up this whole thing. HE'S the one adapting the materials he received and making them into a chapter. If you're surprised or upset that he's including his own opinions into them, then you're an idiot and you are more than welcome to leave. It's his project, it's his rules, it's his time and effort, and it's because of him that this is even happening at all. It was announced at the beginning that Preston would have the final say, this should come as a surprise to no one. Any other ASOIAF youtuber could do the same project, but they aren't. Preston is. And his true fans are more than happy to hear any and all of his theories go into these chapters.
if your going to use a lot of your own theories as the outline for winds all I need mixed in in Tyrion losing his tongue. Alt Shift X did a video on Tyrion's character and where he would go, and since Jamie and Cersie have both lost pieces of themselves that are physical representations of their identity (or what they think is their identity is), Tyrion losing his tongue would complete the trio.
Preston and Carmine are kinda the cutest “not”-boyfriends I’ve seen between two you-tubers. I used to hate Carmine when he started popping up, but know I enjoy his presence enough that I’m a little upset if he doesn’t show up in a stream or podcast.
I have no problem with Preston using his own theory like the Dornish master plan since there is always the possibility that the plan, like Doran's, can fail. So it could still be surprising ! Anyway, I really like this series and thank you so much for your work !
I kinda started to write the Prologue... And I am very sorry for that, I am not a native English speaker, I am not even that good at writing in Russian and, well, not that I read the whole ASOIAF in English, I mostly read it in Russian. And someone will have to read my writing... But, well, for now I see that the main problem is to switch from doing exposition in the head of the POV person to things happening. I have already written about thousand words, and maester Jon is just walking down the stairs for breakfast after waking up from a bad dream. His mind travels all over the map from Oldtown to Moon and stars and back, but, well, hard to end it and go to "action".
don't worry about your writing in English, there are editors for helping with grammar/syntax etc. as for making transitions, other characters or external events can interrupt the POV's train of thought. I would just suggest limiting trains of thought to things that are important thematically or important to the plot, and keep the 'action' the center of the story
I'm genuinely more excited for this than I am for anything George is working on. Frankly, George should pay you guys the advance money he received for Winds, send you his notes and wash his hands of the series. As far as I'm concerned, this is Winds. Also, when are you guys gonna get to the Northern story! All my favorite characters are there. :p
Bowan Marsh wrote the Pink Letter. It is known…… How about Darkstar kills Obara with Dawn and Hotah describes the sword as it kills him and he does nothing to protect himself. He worships a Axe, so it would be interesting to hear his description of THAT weapon.
Okay but those 2 characters wouldn't be as capable of revealing Prince Doran's thought process and intentions regarding the master plan unless Doran just tells them like some cartoon villain lol
Liked the chapter, though I was never much of a Areo Hotah enjoyer. On an unrelated note, One of these days you should invite Trey back on the podcast. Was really interesting hearing you guys talk
I know you have a lot to do but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on black Corlys. I wasn't on board but LML made some excellent arguments that have begun to sway me. I'd love to hear your ideas especially explanation of the thing you said about Westerosi not being racist... that doesn't seem to fit with the 'medieval European' milieu . Thanks for everything you do keeping us entertained while George takes his sweet time.
I just listened the part where Preston says that Areo's chapters are extremely basic in their writing. Isn't Areo Hotah the only POV character for whom common westerosi is not a native language?
@@catmonarchist8920 why not? even in universe: he haven't heard Norvosi in a decade, so he already started thinking in Westerosi, but at the same time he heard Westerosi usually in really specific contexts (since he works as a bodyguard almost without day-offs) and from a not really diverse (in terms of interests) group of people, and he doesn't seem like someone who read a lot of books in Westerosi, so no wonder his vocabulary is not that wide. and from metaperspective: it is a good way for an author to show that a person is not native for a specific culture or even feels - despite a lot of time passing - somewhat alienated by it. I myself have written POV character, whose native language is English, not Russian: and though the character lived in Russia for two years, I still wrote some English words in Cyrillic (for example, I wrote 'common linnet' in Cyrillic instead of a Russian word for this bird, 'cause why would this woman know the bird's name in Russian), the sentences were shorter and had way less commas - as you would expect from someone who is used to English grammar.
I see you conveniently left out the 'Quintyn is Alive' tinfoil when talking about the what parts of the Dornish Master Plan will make it in hahaha classic! Just let the dead reast Preston hahahaaha! Love the chapter Preston, please keep going!!
Obara taking a lasting wound that still bothers her through the rest of her quest also parallels Victarion and his hand injury at the hand of Ser Talbert Serry
If Quentyn turns up again, that's going to be a moment for the listenership EDIT: I'll accept it as a politeness so Preston doesn't nail/spoil GRRM's book too accurately
47:00 - So about the fight between Lannister and Martel forces. Even though knights and squires have better training and equipment, spearmen with numerical advantage would be able to kill them with minimal losses in my opinion. They can keep distance and any HEMA fighter will tell you that if you fight 2 opponents at once, just run, you have no chance. It's a movie trope that people attack one at a time, in reality, fighting multiple people with weapons is a surefire way to get killed. So honestly I can't see them losing more than like 10-20 people at most. As for Obara, I think cracker ribs would put her out of comission for a while, but I don't think she'd just up and die from it. Also as a point of feedback - a blunted axe for sparring would be insanely dangerous, it'd basically be a hammer at that point. If you want a training axe, you'd probably go for a wooden one or something with metal wrapped in cloth at the end, because hammers WILL knock you out even through a helmet if you get hit with enough force.
I think your brief of submitted chapters being able to be cannibalized is important. Any subs should know this and not cause drama about x or y or z. They are part of a collective project. One that could be arguably more important to the fandom than anything else since ADWD was released. This maybe the closest thing we get to an ending. Ever. Re knights and fighting-armour, training, discipline. Perhaps the three knights got their shields and fought back to back until one took an arrow to the knee 🤷🏻♂️
On the language simplicity: Hotah is one of just two characters for whom the Common Tongue is not a mother tongue or, at least, one of the mother tongues. So maybe it is another function of it. The other one - Melisandra - is supposedly old and definitely quite scholarly, so she is supposed to have it learned properly.
Yeah, I think it'd be best if the individual chapters aren't posted, until the thing is finished or not be a part of it; you are right, there will be drama, it's inevitable.
A suggestion / idea for THE NEXT Areo chapter. You mentioned the Lannister men will take down lots of Dornish with them, which will be something of a surprise. Might I suggest, rather than just having say 20 less men with them in the next chapter.... they need lots of INJURED men. It should be messy. Perhaps 16 men were left behind in the desert unburied... and a further 20 are walking wounded, and 4 or 5 badly hurt and not expected to survive. Perhaps Areo should have taken a not insignificant injury too. I think that will be cool... that is all! : )
For the battles, would it be an idea to give the overview of the entire battle, and then have people decide which bits they tell from whose point of view? That's probably a lot of extra work for you though 😅
I can't agree with the devil's advocate view that they have to dumb down a show like GOT for a general audience. Just look at the audience reception to early seasons, when the show _did_ do political intrigue and backstabbing and complex plotting, and compare that to the audience reception to later seasons. If "they have to dumb down the show for a general audience" were true, people should have _loved_ the final season, it had everything that the early seasons had turned up to 11 (action, costumes, effects) but with a dumbed down story. Instead, it's universally reviled _for_ the story. Somehow this idea keeps coming up and it's really not true - people are more than happy to watch smart shows, the thing that kills smart shows is that they're harder to produce, and studios want the quick, lazy approach, so they try to bury smart shows and promote the idea that people want dumbed down shows. Plus, GRRM always said ASOIAF wasn't filmable and D&D decided they knew better, but then they went on to make a different show with none of the interesting stuff from the books. The least they could do is attempt to make a faithful adaptation and have it stand on its own merit. The show reminds me of the play in Braavos, it has all the trappings of what's happening in the book, but it's a very dumbed down surface level reading of everything, and somehow as a result, they managed to make a show about dragons and ice zombies and dire wolves _boring_.
I agree, no commoner would have a chance against a knight in 1 vs 1 but 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 is an entriely different thing and I'd say chances are high the professional knight will get murdered. Especially if his opponents have weapon superiority (reach advantage of spears vs sword is significant), the knight doesn't have armor on (because he was about to go to bed) and is a little drunk as well.
I think if Obara is slowly dying on the way to High Hermitage, you need to rhyme it with how Khal Drogo was slowly dying. Perhaps they come across some Stoney Dornish peasants and Areo has to ask for their help. And the Stoney Dornish peasants don't look so kindly on the Salty Dornish that Obara clearly looks. And perhaps that Stony Dornish peasant's name? Wylla. I wouldn't take it so far that a mystical ritual occurs, but use the opportunity to show that what the Martells say about Dorne isn't necessarily 100% true, and that out there there's still some resentment for getting pushed up into the Red Mountains. Wylla doesn't help, she doesn't poison Obara, but she does little to help.
Ridiculous even discussing Preston not being the right person for this project because... he has a lot of theories?!? Do your thing Preston, first two chapters are blowing people away.
So PJ is planning on using ideas and theories he already spent a lot of time researching to give a plausible ideas to where GRRM is going with the story in his fanfic project? I expected more. I'm the fan here! Geeeezzz! Think of a whole new story already.
@PrestonJacobs It is not the training that really makes a big difference in a field battle, it is discipline, strategy and tactics. Elite troops through out time are veterans of war. I think it is plausible that the Lannisters would do well (Despite a being ambushed), but not for reasons you give here
The training might be a difference between a knight and someone else but the biggest difference is armour and discipline (which is far more important than fighting/duiling ability). In this case they might be more experienced than the dornish but since both are a team of knights and men at arms the advantage can’t be to big. That being said, as long as a formation stays disciplined and does not rout it can still inflict serious casualties.
Michael Crichton pointed out in Timeline that no one is going to defeat a medieval man at arms except another medieval maa, unless you go Indiana Jones and use a weapon they're not familiar with.
I love that fanfic. I'm a bit surprised Hotah should be the one to survive that meeting with Darkstar. I had expected he would uncover some Sandsnake-treason and die protecting a fMyrcella, whose face he cut. (I thought the real one would get shipwrecked with Trystane at the Stepstones.) I had expected Obara and Darkstar being in liege all the time and with that magic razor-sword he would win against all enemies, if he had stolen Dawn from his cousins ere Euron can plunder Starfall and get it for himself. It is true that Obara might have outlived her use asides being the 'true' heir to her father in his weapon-skills, and finding a similar end. But Darkstar fits the category of comic-villain, GRRM loves and would be a waste, if he was gone too soon, GRRM inventing him for the sake of Edric being too young. It would thwart Godking-Eurons plans a bit, if another thief and murderer was quicker than him, and it would fit, if fAegon raised a fSword-of-the-Morning to his Kingsguard.
I don't understand how anyone who subscribes to Preston's channel could be mad about Preston being in charge of the fanfic. There's a lot more to telling a story than ticking a "theory confirmed!" box. And I'm here for the fanfic to see how we get there. And these folks realize that this is a fanfic, right? Maybe some day you'll still get to see how GRRM plays it out. And if that doesn't happen, at least we'll have SOMETHING.
I did feel like Aero Hotah had more character in The Prince’s Justice than previously. In The Watcher chapter, he seems to just disappear and I forget he is there with Doran and company…and yet I am looking through his eyes.
I don't understand the criticism that the fan chapters are following the theory videos. I mean, what do people think the theory videos are? They're Preston's attempt to read and extrapolate where the story is going. Of course when you ask him to write the book, that's where the story will go. My understanding of this exercise was always that GRRM is taking too long to write the book, and enough people think Preston has a good enough grasp on where the story is going, so let him tell us that version of the story. It was never "Preston writes a whole new book created out of nothing which contradicts everything he's ever told us about the story, just so that we are surprised". That doesn't mean there's not lots of room for surprise along the way, even if we know the big broad brush strokes, there's still plenty of detail that needs filling in - and PJ has even admitted that, if he receives an entry which contradicts his theories but blows him away, he'll probably put it in. We can't really ask more than that. If people think that Preston inserting his own theories into it will spoil the fan chapters, I guess don't read them and wait for the book? Although I wonder what they will then say if Preston has nailed a bunch of the theories, since surely that will have the same effect of diluting the surprise.
Doesn't matter to me whether or not Jacobs's plot theories are right or wrong in relation to GRRM's vision. What they do provide is a solid foundation for a compelling and intricate story. A story that is likely as good as we're going to get, given Martin is not going to finish ASOIAF. So fanfic away good sir and avid minions, because so far it has been a very good start to the journey.
I couldn't have said it better.
My thoughts exactly
there is also a certain objectivity to it. Preston’s chapters are logical
G.R R is totally finishing the books. He just has not decided who will kill the knight king. Jar Jar binks, or Scooby Doo.
Seriously? 😂 not even a chuckle?
I gotta agree with Preston's stance on including his own theories. They are well-researched, well-thought out and serve as good backdrop to build specific scenes and character moments on. The surprise for us die hard Preston fans will be less in the overarching schemes but rather in more specific actions. Like we know that Preston believes Darkstar to be innocent and this whole mission to bring him down a sham, but that Obara would so brazenly murder Balon Swan and the Lannister men out in the desert is still a surprising moment that fits both the characters and the larger theory behind it. Personally, I find it quite rewarding to spot these hints at past Preston theories in the fanfic chapters. It feels like payoff for years of being a Preston fan. Even if a lot of these theories don‘t come true in GRRM‘s version, they are still compelling and grounded and it's great to have a version of the story, where they do come true and we can witness the fallout from things like the Dornish master plan! Plus, there are still some stories that Preston doesn't really have any theories about (Sam, Jaime & Brienne, Arianne) so I‘m betting there will still be quite a few surprises moving forward.
Plus, anyone who wants to do a theory free project is certainly free to do so. Why ask someone to abandon their own ideas to perform an artistic endeavor?
completely agree. Also after certain point many theories and plans clash and decissions will be made of whose plans fail and whose plans fail horribly
@@Serch_YB27 Hahahaha I like the wording of that. All plans must fail!
This feels like preferring to spend the weekend with your stepdad, because your real dad has stoped trying
Love this analogy
best comment
comment of the year
The stepdad of everyone’s dreams, going above and beyond 💕💕
A yeAr later and more true then ever
Areo Hotah is my favorite character, I'm glad you guys did him.... justice. heh.
Reading this chapter genuinely inspired me to get back into the books. If the rest of Sweetrobin’s fan-fic is even close to this level of quality, we are all in for a treat!
It makes me not be able to wait until we get Preston's fantasy books.
Preston's gonna finish the books, mark my words
@@dustingaethje1332 He writes them I will buy them.
@@ashlomen8432 he’s doing a chapter a month at best and will be less inclined once TWOW is out. Don’t hold your breath lol
Preston; as someone who has followed your channel for years, I don’t care about if your plot twist theories are real. I want to see what the story is after those twist are made real, cuz it would still make a great story. Unless you Dan & Dave that shit, please keep that level of intricacy that The Fat Man is famous for.
Oreo Hookah: The Ganja that rides.
That chapter was so. damn. good. I was on the edge of my seat during the final sparring game into Obara's ambush. I felt so damn bad for Areo too, watching him slowly piece together that Doran had planned all of this, and how monstrous it was, even from him as he realized he had to let it happen was just... fuck, man.
As a writer (Daenerys, didn't have time for Hotah, working on Prologue now) I didn't submit a full chapter, just about 40% of one about the subject matter I found most interesting. I wrote fairly experimentally with the hope that Preston and the editors would take what they liked and leave the rest, like I was contributing to something rather than wanting it to stand alone. I can understand wanting to publish your original submission, but for me I'd rather stay just a collaborator.
That chapter was actually better then some ASOIAF chapters. Can’t wait for the next one!
i love the idea of Darkstar seeing so many horses, so few men and just opening the conversation with "what kind of fuckery did you guys get up to?"
I don't mind that after watching all Preston's theories I wouldn't be as surprised, there are still a huge blank canvas in many areas of the story and reading them in this style of the project is amazing.
What are the Tyrell's planning? What will the Greyjoys do after the battle of blood? What will Quentyn do after re-appearing? Will the Vale invade the Riverlands, if so who'll win and which faction will they support between the Lannisters, Stannis, Faegon and Dany?
Also it's all very well to guess at the plans or motives of characters, but Preston and the other writers also then need to consider how they play out TOGETHER, as in, how the stories interract and interrupt each other, so there will definitely be more surprises!
This is super cool. He’s got two chapters done already and there were already 11 sample chapters he can work in. He’s putting out about 1 chapter per month so he should complete A Dream of Spring in……*looks up how many chapters were in A Dance with Dragons*…. a little over 11 years. Why am I suddenly worried about Preston’s health?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but if GRRMs Winds of Winter released tomorrow, I would buy it immediately. Since I can’t, I’ll take the next best thing while I continue to wait.
If the Preston Winds of Winter dropped tomorrow I’d buy that
@Babes & Board Games Most of us are all here because we still care about the book series.
@Babes & Board Games I'd still buy it 10 years from now lol
There are interesting parallels between this fanfic project and the Finnish epic Kalevala. Kalevala is written by Elias Lönnrot. The writing process started with making journeys in Eastern Finland and collecting poetry that was passed down by generations as oral literature. After collecting the poems he formed a plotline and wrote himself the "missing" chapters forming a coherent whole from originally independent poems.
I see Preston doing here something very Lönnrot like but only communicating through internet instead of actually making a journey through countryside.
What's Countryside? Some sort of pre-internet message board?
@@tokevarvaspolvi8999 it's the place where farming is done
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl oh, so it's an MMO! Cool!
@@tokevarvaspolvi8999 more a survival horror game of traditional Finnish foods. Although I will defend the taste of Mämmi till I die
Considering that Emma Arryn is a character in the history, an Emma Stone would not only be realistic but still a fun nod to pop culture.
However, having Rosetta or Sharon will be too silly.
lol, nice one.
Horse/Logistics nerd thing! Having multiple horses, especially if you plan on moving quickly, is pretty normal. Everyone having a remount would be pretty expected, especially knights, who would generally at least have a warhorse for battle/jousts, a riding horse for everyday, and maybe a pack horse. This is something GRRM knows, that's why at the start of The Hedge Knight Dunk inherits three horses, Thunder, Sweetfoot and Chestnut. Still, I suppose that means that 50 guys arrive at High Hermitage with 200-300 horses, and you can still have a lot of fun with that. Maybe Darkstar jokes that they are horse traders, or rustlers.
i’d love if the Scrapesword lives and somehow makes his way to Aegons host up the kings road at Storms End
Yeah that scrapesword is a good easter egg. Maybe all we do is hear it lol
Why do people complain? This is GREAT!
When you're listening to Preston Jacobs version of WoW, you should not complain about it going along with some of his main theories. If you don't like that, do your own fan-made version which supports your certainly-much-better theories.
I really quite like some parallels here - like Fake Myrcella mirroring fake Arya in the North, but I'm not sure *everything* has to be a parallel - like Obara's wounds. We do need to feel this world is large and varied - and things can happen in a lot of different ways, rather than the world being locked into a tight series of repeating events like in the Belgariad or something.
The basic writing and the fact that he is an observant is why i like his chapters so much. It is really refreshing to stumble upon these (as a non native speaker who reads the books in english). And the thing about it not being "ice and fire" is just odd, these differences are what makes it Ice and fire.
I am still bitter about offing my boy Balon Swann…but when I listened to it again, I see how it all fits.
They really did him dirty 😔
Same, even though I knew it was coming. It was done well!
Lmao, GRRM watches the PJ version and starts over xD. All joking aside, its been good. And keep up the good work.
Thank you for discussing storycraft, writing, and editing for this project. I’m learning a lot.
I mean, people who watch Preston's channel probably expect to see his vision and how his theories play out in the bigger story (well, at least I do). What stops any and all other asoiaf theorists from gathering their communities and starting their own fanfiction projects with their theories at the forefront? The more, the merrier! I'd read all of them, but please, don't take the joy of this project away from it's creator.
It’s complete freedom. Like Sir Thomas Malory forging the definitive King Arthur experience. Through the ages, who knows what will become of ASOIAF.
Didn't think we'd have to worry about spoilers in a fan fiction, but here we are. Then again, anything outside the released chapter has to have spoilers as it involves either the upcoming plots of the next chapter or the reasons for choices in the just released one.
As for the upcoming prologue, I think it'd be better to have the POV be a Septa. We've got so much already for maesters or their attendants (two prologues, an epilogue, and most of Sam's) who were all male, but not much for those that serve the Seven much less a nun.
The whole discussion around 44:40 is also well set up, because they're talking about how they were knighted so young and stuff
Preston, I doubt you will read this. Since day one you have been a source of entertainment and mental stimulation for me. Respect. Like put me to bed and keep me up type shit. You are a hero
Just stop with the voices
32:32
Huh, Obara injured and probably dying. Good. After what she did in the Areo chapter, she deserves it in my opinion.
She definitely came across as a very bad person in that chapter.
Carmine’s Winds version: stannis kills the night king (?) in the first chapter, little finger gets to be hand of the king, gilly dies of greyscale, ygritte comes back undead and is eaten out by John Snow.
Really good chapter good work Preston and co.
I dont care whether Areo interacts with the story himself. I just love the dorne plot and I'll take any POV that is in Doran's inner circle
House Slynt
"Well and truly extinct"
Love these reflections on the chapters! Carmine adds a lot to the conversation
Preston's theories make the characters clever and interesting - which makes a great story
I definitely dont mind the presence of theoretical plot points within the narrative and i definitely enjoy the ideas youve had on dorne. The qyburn inclusion has always puzzled me though and ive felt Quentyn being alive made a lot more sense than that ever really did to me. Some connections he has to them can definitely be found and your deeper dorne videos are great about that but even when his council is pushing cersei in poor directions ive always felt hes kind of a self motivated mad scientist who has far more interest in doing monstrous things to women he captures than serving foreign princes
Carmine. I LOVE that idea, the winds of winter multiverse. And nice foresight from PJ as to why hesitant. Keep rocking, fellas.
(19:43) Myrcella is stupid? According to whom?
The only person that thinks Myrcella is stupid is Jon Snow. And he doesn't even know her, and he calls her stupid because she's smitten with Robb.
On the other hand, this is a quote from Ser Arys Oakheart ABOUT Myrcella Baratheon:
"The truth was, THE PRINCESS was braver than her brother, and brighter and more confident as well. Her wits were quicker, her courtesies more polished. Nothing daunted her, not even Joffrey." (The Soiled Knight, AFFC)
And btw, the girl we see in the Queenmaker chapter does behave like the real Myrcella.
When Myrcella is given information that directly contradicts her notions of whom should the Iron throne:
“Mother, what does he mean?” Princess Myrcella asked the queen plaintively. “Isn’t Joff the king now?” (Eddard XIV, AGOT)
"Confused, Myrcella clutched Arys Oakheart by the arm. Why do they call me Grace? she asked in a plaintive voice. Ser Arys, what is this place, and who are they?" (The Queenmaker, AFFC)
She also immediately reacts when Tommen's safety appears to be in question:
"Oh, Princess Myrcella cried. She scrambled out of the box and ran to her little brother." (Sansa I, ACOK)
"Princess Arianne? The girl threw her arms around her. Why do they call me queen? Did something bad happen to Tommen?" (The Queenmaker, AFFC)
She tends to enphasise words (Which, to be fair, many characters do)
"We’re children, Myrcella declared haughtily. We’re SUPPOSED to be childish." (Sansa I, ACOK) (This also shows that Myrcella is not afraid of Joffrey)
"Myrcella did not understand. I thought YOU were the Rhoynar. You Dornishmen, I mean." (The Queenmaker, AFFC)
This shows that the author took Myrcella's 3 previous interactions when he wrote The Queenmaker chapter.
But the thing is, I agree with you on a thematical level that there was a swap. However, I think the swap happen DURING The Queenmaker chapter. Specifically when Arianne calls for a halt and the rest for a bit, Because Myrcella is tired. And after this pause, Arianne doesn't interact with "Myrcella" (Now Rosamund) again.
There are ppl swaps all over GRRMs writing. I’d be incredibly surprised if this wasn’t another. It clearly mirrors the baby swap up north.
@@_addison4772 Yeah, I agree that there was a swap
You read my whole comment right?
That statement about Preston including his onw theories....
Does that person not understand the entire concept of Fan Fiction?
Would love the prologue from Sybell Spicer's perspective. (Jeyne Westerling's mother/ Maggy the frog's grandaughter).
I don't think RedTeamReview realizes that posting everybody's chapter at once is a bad idea. It will only lead to comparing and infighting because there's always those few who will get a big head and start making demands.
It's not about individual recongnition, bit community recongnition. Just because Preston is the face, doesn't mean he's taking credit. This project is a collaboration and the terms have been stated. But there are those with ill intention that will try to destroy or benefit from this project.
Love, love, love it. Thank you. And I agree with most everything that was said. Except I think Areo Hotah's guilt could have been written ambiguously and been just as good, or better. But I love it this way for sure.
Dude. PJ is the one who set up this whole thing. HE'S the one adapting the materials he received and making them into a chapter. If you're surprised or upset that he's including his own opinions into them, then you're an idiot and you are more than welcome to leave. It's his project, it's his rules, it's his time and effort, and it's because of him that this is even happening at all. It was announced at the beginning that Preston would have the final say, this should come as a surprise to no one. Any other ASOIAF youtuber could do the same project, but they aren't. Preston is. And his true fans are more than happy to hear any and all of his theories go into these chapters.
"why isn't Preston's free fanfic less like Preston's imagination?"
if your going to use a lot of your own theories as the outline for winds all I need mixed in in Tyrion losing his tongue. Alt Shift X did a video on Tyrion's character and where he would go, and since Jamie and Cersie have both lost pieces of themselves that are physical representations of their identity (or what they think is their identity is), Tyrion losing his tongue would complete the trio.
Preston and Carmine are kinda the cutest “not”-boyfriends I’ve seen between two you-tubers. I used to hate Carmine when he started popping up, but know I enjoy his presence enough that I’m a little upset if he doesn’t show up in a stream or podcast.
I think the word you're looking for is "friends".
@@OllyRoger no, I’m not
Perfect timing with this upload time, eating tuna sandwich before bed
I have no problem with Preston using his own theory like the Dornish master plan since there is always the possibility that the plan, like Doran's, can fail. So it could still be surprising ! Anyway, I really like this series and thank you so much for your work !
Finish the damn book, Preston!
I kinda started to write the Prologue... And I am very sorry for that, I am not a native English speaker, I am not even that good at writing in Russian and, well, not that I read the whole ASOIAF in English, I mostly read it in Russian. And someone will have to read my writing...
But, well, for now I see that the main problem is to switch from doing exposition in the head of the POV person to things happening. I have already written about thousand words, and maester Jon is just walking down the stairs for breakfast after waking up from a bad dream. His mind travels all over the map from Oldtown to Moon and stars and back, but, well, hard to end it and go to "action".
don't worry about your writing in English, there are editors for helping with grammar/syntax etc.
as for making transitions, other characters or external events can interrupt the POV's train of thought. I would just suggest limiting trains of thought to things that are important thematically or important to the plot, and keep the 'action' the center of the story
I’m hoping for a sweetrobin chapter where we realize he is puppeting little finger
I'm genuinely more excited for this than I am for anything George is working on. Frankly, George should pay you guys the advance money he received for Winds, send you his notes and wash his hands of the series. As far as I'm concerned, this is Winds.
Also, when are you guys gonna get to the Northern story! All my favorite characters are there. :p
I would say you are doing it the right way. Just look at the enormously good feedback you got so far.
damnnn hard to believe its been almost 2 years since this began! feels like u started it in the beginning of 2023 max!
can’t believe this fanfic is happening, but I love that it is!
Bowan Marsh wrote the Pink Letter. It is known…… How about Darkstar kills Obara with Dawn and Hotah describes the sword as it kills him and he does nothing to protect himself. He worships a Axe, so it would be interesting to hear his description of THAT weapon.
"You need Area Hotah to tell the Dornish plot"
Or you could have Jamie and Bronn have an adventure in Dorn...that would work out
Okay but those 2 characters wouldn't be as capable of revealing Prince Doran's thought process and intentions regarding the master plan unless Doran just tells them like some cartoon villain lol
Hahahhahahahha
I think we should have seen Jamie and Bronn across the world
Bad pussy.
Bad, bad pussy.
We would know Tyene has the bad poosi
Are you ever going to post these to something like AO3? I and I'm sure a lot of other people would love to have them in written form.
Liked the chapter, though I was never much of a Areo Hotah enjoyer. On an unrelated note, One of these days you should invite Trey back on the podcast. Was really interesting hearing you guys talk
I know you have a lot to do but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on black Corlys. I wasn't on board but LML made some excellent arguments that have begun to sway me. I'd love to hear your ideas especially explanation of the thing you said about Westerosi not being racist... that doesn't seem to fit with the 'medieval European' milieu . Thanks for everything you do keeping us entertained while George takes his sweet time.
Yay! I was worried you wouldn't keep up the chapter discussions!
I just listened the part where Preston says that Areo's chapters are extremely basic in their writing. Isn't Areo Hotah the only POV character for whom common westerosi is not a native language?
The only other one I can think of is Melisandre. Good point though.
@@ConriDubhghail fair enough. I forgot Melisandre is also a POV character.
But it's a POV. Does he think in poor Westerosi?
@@catmonarchist8920 why not? even in universe: he haven't heard Norvosi in a decade, so he already started thinking in Westerosi, but at the same time he heard Westerosi usually in really specific contexts (since he works as a bodyguard almost without day-offs) and from a not really diverse (in terms of interests) group of people, and he doesn't seem like someone who read a lot of books in Westerosi, so no wonder his vocabulary is not that wide.
and from metaperspective: it is a good way for an author to show that a person is not native for a specific culture or even feels - despite a lot of time passing - somewhat alienated by it.
I myself have written POV character, whose native language is English, not Russian: and though the character lived in Russia for two years, I still wrote some English words in Cyrillic (for example, I wrote 'common linnet' in Cyrillic instead of a Russian word for this bird, 'cause why would this woman know the bird's name in Russian), the sentences were shorter and had way less commas - as you would expect from someone who is used to English grammar.
I see you conveniently left out the 'Quintyn is Alive' tinfoil when talking about the what parts of the Dornish Master Plan will make it in hahaha classic!
Just let the dead reast Preston hahahaaha!
Love the chapter Preston, please keep going!!
Yeah, I get that it's possible that Quentyn survived, but it would be very strange as a plot device
People need to stop nit picking Preston’s choices … be grateful !!! Mance wrote the pink letter! Ty Preston !!!!
I’m glad Preston was able to take some of these harder questions on the chin, the ‘not a blog’ ep was a lil salty
Obara taking a lasting wound that still bothers her through the rest of her quest also parallels Victarion and his hand injury at the hand of Ser Talbert Serry
If Quentyn turns up again, that's going to be a moment for the listenership
EDIT: I'll accept it as a politeness so Preston doesn't nail/spoil GRRM's book too accurately
I think Preston said theirs gonna be a Quentyn chapter.
Eagerly waiting for the Qermit chapter
I hope so. It's an interesting plotline. And it will piss off normies lol
47:00 - So about the fight between Lannister and Martel forces. Even though knights and squires have better training and equipment, spearmen with numerical advantage would be able to kill them with minimal losses in my opinion. They can keep distance and any HEMA fighter will tell you that if you fight 2 opponents at once, just run, you have no chance. It's a movie trope that people attack one at a time, in reality, fighting multiple people with weapons is a surefire way to get killed. So honestly I can't see them losing more than like 10-20 people at most.
As for Obara, I think cracker ribs would put her out of comission for a while, but I don't think she'd just up and die from it.
Also as a point of feedback - a blunted axe for sparring would be insanely dangerous, it'd basically be a hammer at that point. If you want a training axe, you'd probably go for a wooden one or something with metal wrapped in cloth at the end, because hammers WILL knock you out even through a helmet if you get hit with enough force.
I think your brief of submitted chapters being able to be cannibalized is important. Any subs should know this and not cause drama about x or y or z. They are part of a collective project. One that could be arguably more important to the fandom than anything else since ADWD was released. This maybe the closest thing we get to an ending. Ever.
Re knights and fighting-armour, training, discipline. Perhaps the three knights got their shields and fought back to back until one took an arrow to the knee 🤷🏻♂️
All of the chapters are good but the Areo one is just fantastic. Really enjoyed it. Felt like it could be right out of the real Winds.
There is a lot of symbology in the Hotah chapters. It supposed to illustrate the reason for the long night.
On the language simplicity: Hotah is one of just two characters for whom the Common Tongue is not a mother tongue or, at least, one of the mother tongues. So maybe it is another function of it.
The other one - Melisandra - is supposedly old and definitely quite scholarly, so she is supposed to have it learned properly.
You really made a vid in which you analyzed your own fan fic? Niicee - South Park
Yeah, I think it'd be best if the individual chapters aren't posted, until the thing is finished or not be a part of it; you are right, there will be drama, it's inevitable.
A suggestion / idea for THE NEXT Areo chapter. You mentioned the Lannister men will take down lots of Dornish with them, which will be something of a surprise. Might I suggest, rather than just having say 20 less men with them in the next chapter.... they need lots of INJURED men. It should be messy. Perhaps 16 men were left behind in the desert unburied... and a further 20 are walking wounded, and 4 or 5 badly hurt and not expected to survive. Perhaps Areo should have taken a not insignificant injury too. I think that will be cool... that is all! : )
For the battles, would it be an idea to give the overview of the entire battle, and then have people decide which bits they tell from whose point of view? That's probably a lot of extra work for you though 😅
You should make the Corlys video if you can. I think it would be interesting to hear your take on how it would enhance the story.
I can't agree with the devil's advocate view that they have to dumb down a show like GOT for a general audience. Just look at the audience reception to early seasons, when the show _did_ do political intrigue and backstabbing and complex plotting, and compare that to the audience reception to later seasons.
If "they have to dumb down the show for a general audience" were true, people should have _loved_ the final season, it had everything that the early seasons had turned up to 11 (action, costumes, effects) but with a dumbed down story. Instead, it's universally reviled _for_ the story.
Somehow this idea keeps coming up and it's really not true - people are more than happy to watch smart shows, the thing that kills smart shows is that they're harder to produce, and studios want the quick, lazy approach, so they try to bury smart shows and promote the idea that people want dumbed down shows.
Plus, GRRM always said ASOIAF wasn't filmable and D&D decided they knew better, but then they went on to make a different show with none of the interesting stuff from the books. The least they could do is attempt to make a faithful adaptation and have it stand on its own merit. The show reminds me of the play in Braavos, it has all the trappings of what's happening in the book, but it's a very dumbed down surface level reading of everything, and somehow as a result, they managed to make a show about dragons and ice zombies and dire wolves _boring_.
I agree, no commoner would have a chance against a knight in 1 vs 1 but 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 is an entriely different thing and I'd say chances are high the professional knight will get murdered. Especially if his opponents have weapon superiority (reach advantage of spears vs sword is significant), the knight doesn't have armor on (because he was about to go to bed) and is a little drunk as well.
I think if Obara is slowly dying on the way to High Hermitage, you need to rhyme it with how Khal Drogo was slowly dying. Perhaps they come across some Stoney Dornish peasants and Areo has to ask for their help. And the Stoney Dornish peasants don't look so kindly on the Salty Dornish that Obara clearly looks. And perhaps that Stony Dornish peasant's name? Wylla.
I wouldn't take it so far that a mystical ritual occurs, but use the opportunity to show that what the Martells say about Dorne isn't necessarily 100% true, and that out there there's still some resentment for getting pushed up into the Red Mountains. Wylla doesn't help, she doesn't poison Obara, but she does little to help.
I really think we have to watch out for including so many parallels every chapter - lest it feels like nothing new or different is happening.
Don't ever feel bad about your work; at least you are working in a timely manner...unlike somebody.
in USA we had slavery and segregation - slavery was everywhere - race segregation was only in USA and Middle East and maybe India
Ridiculous even discussing Preston not being the right person for this project because... he has a lot of theories?!? Do your thing Preston, first two chapters are blowing people away.
So PJ is planning on using ideas and theories he already spent a lot of time researching to give a plausible ideas to where GRRM is going with the story in his fanfic project? I expected more. I'm the fan here! Geeeezzz! Think of a whole new story already.
@PrestonJacobs It is not the training that really makes a big difference in a field battle, it is discipline, strategy and tactics. Elite troops through out time are veterans of war. I think it is plausible that the Lannisters would do well (Despite a being ambushed), but not for reasons you give here
The training might be a difference between a knight and someone else but the biggest difference is armour and discipline (which is far more important than fighting/duiling ability). In this case they might be more experienced than the dornish but since both are a team of knights and men at arms the advantage can’t be to big. That being said, as long as a formation stays disciplined and does not rout it can still inflict serious casualties.
Honestly just have fun writing your fan fic man.
Recommend caek daemon as one of the big boy writers in the fandom for consultation and the like.
it was an amazing chapter
Joke is on them: I listen to his chapters to watch how his theories come to life.
Michael Crichton pointed out in Timeline that no one is going to defeat a medieval man at arms except another medieval maa, unless you go Indiana Jones and use a weapon they're not familiar with.
This chapter was so well written and edited thatI almost thought I was listening to GRRM himself.
Pls finnish this project! Its the only winds of winter we will ever get
Preston should include the pre released WoW chapters in this project. No changes. Just give GRRM credit for writing it
Speaking of forgotten characters what do you think happened with Ned dayne? We didn't see him with caitlyn. So did he go back to starfall?
I love that fanfic.
I'm a bit surprised Hotah should be the one to survive that meeting with Darkstar. I had expected he would uncover some Sandsnake-treason and die protecting a fMyrcella, whose face he cut. (I thought the real one would get shipwrecked with Trystane at the Stepstones.)
I had expected Obara and Darkstar being in liege all the time and with that magic razor-sword he would win against all enemies, if he had stolen Dawn from his cousins ere Euron can plunder Starfall and get it for himself. It is true that Obara might have outlived her use asides being the 'true' heir to her father in his weapon-skills, and finding a similar end. But Darkstar fits the category of comic-villain, GRRM loves and would be a waste, if he was gone too soon, GRRM inventing him for the sake of Edric being too young.
It would thwart Godking-Eurons plans a bit, if another thief and murderer was quicker than him, and it would fit, if fAegon raised a fSword-of-the-Morning to his Kingsguard.
There’s a pretty well known newsreader in the UK called Jon Snow lol
I don't understand how anyone who subscribes to Preston's channel could be mad about Preston being in charge of the fanfic. There's a lot more to telling a story than ticking a "theory confirmed!" box. And I'm here for the fanfic to see how we get there.
And these folks realize that this is a fanfic, right? Maybe some day you'll still get to see how GRRM plays it out. And if that doesn't happen, at least we'll have SOMETHING.
Is Dark Star going to Vulture King?
I did feel like Aero Hotah had more character in The Prince’s Justice than previously. In The Watcher chapter, he seems to just disappear and I forget he is there with Doran and company…and yet I am looking through his eyes.
I can't believe the people complaining. So far, it's been great
At this point, I feel like you've put more work into the next book than G.R.R.M.
I don't understand the criticism that the fan chapters are following the theory videos. I mean, what do people think the theory videos are? They're Preston's attempt to read and extrapolate where the story is going. Of course when you ask him to write the book, that's where the story will go.
My understanding of this exercise was always that GRRM is taking too long to write the book, and enough people think Preston has a good enough grasp on where the story is going, so let him tell us that version of the story. It was never "Preston writes a whole new book created out of nothing which contradicts everything he's ever told us about the story, just so that we are surprised".
That doesn't mean there's not lots of room for surprise along the way, even if we know the big broad brush strokes, there's still plenty of detail that needs filling in - and PJ has even admitted that, if he receives an entry which contradicts his theories but blows him away, he'll probably put it in. We can't really ask more than that.
If people think that Preston inserting his own theories into it will spoil the fan chapters, I guess don't read them and wait for the book? Although I wonder what they will then say if Preston has nailed a bunch of the theories, since surely that will have the same effect of diluting the surprise.