The History and Lore of the Paradox Beasts
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The Hidden secret of area zERO DLC for scarlet and violet revealed the new legendary WLAKING WAKE pokemon and the lore is fascinating! I have a Pokemon theory. I wanna see a paradox Entei and Raikou to go with Pradox suicune
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There is a joke to be made about how Toby is saying don’t take the Generations Lore seriously and yet he gathers a from so many different places when building a theory.
Probably more like a school moral lesson
Love watching Toby's theories and I know they're all in good fun, but I'm just not convinced by the "it's all connected" arguments. It seems more likely to me that the devs wanted to make something cool without taking the greater implications into consideration. Like when someone brought up the "Ditto is a failed Mew clone" theory to one of the devs who just said "Oh I don't know about that, we just wanted a Pokemon that pays homage to the iconic smiley face." Like if someone asked a dev about all the Paradox theories I think they'd just say "Hey, don't think too hard about it. But a dinosaur suicune is awesome, isn't it?"
Then again, art is always up to interpretation and everyone's entitled to their own headcanon.
Well no it's in Generations I don't think that was a "literal depiction" of what happened. The Pokemon that deacesed are silhouetted because no one is sure what they looked like. Not because those are the exact silhouettes of the Pokemon deceased
@@BirdKeeperToby Fair enough, but the way it was phrase made it sound like a far broader statement on the series depictions as a whole.
@@ParadoxBrony yeah but a lot of the war we can't take seriously we can only take bits and pieces because there's somethings that don't add up like how people have never seen certain pokemon but somehow they all look like statues and other things the lore has to be played by ear and taken with a very big microscope
I'm still convinced that Paradox Pokémon come from completely different timelines altogether rather than simply different times. Like a timeline where humankind never appeared and thus never domesticated Pokémon, so they remained incredibly savage in their abilities and appearance. Or a timeline where humankind developed technology so quickly that they never developed a balance with nature like we see in the games we play, so they either had replace Pokémon after they wiped them out and did it with man made constructs made to imitate them, or the pollution was so bad that the Pokémon evolved to be made of more synthetic materials in order to combat and even make use of the high levels of pollution.
I would agree for the future paradox Pokemon. For the past I'd say they are from a time where fossils are harder to find. As many of the features are from post dinosaur mass extinctions but before mans more direct written history. As Volcarona's ancestor is more direct in it's defense than it's modern counterpart, Scream Tail is very much weaponizes it's screams to disorientate prey. It gives me the uncanny feeling of looking at recreations of ice age animals. It's not the monsters of the ancient world just unrefined modern body plans.
Its all but pretty much confrimed that the old lore of the legendary beasts is untrue
They are not a specially created kind like the creation trio instead a species that has existed since ancient times idk why game freak keeps making all the old legendaries now a wider species instead of some special legendary figure
They did the same to the legendary birds by the galarian variants.
That's just a issue with these big companies
They going to write what they want even if hurts prior continity or how fans wanted things another example of this sorta thing was regigigas
You know he created the three regi hence the three colors on his body so when they made two more regi, It contradicted the implied lore there
Its how things work in the current canon now, Now the legendary beasts are just a ancient species if they ever retcon it back to the way it was then im fine changing my stance but officially as it stands yea entei is not a character, its a whole species
I kinda hate how people handle this they cant accept it got retconed so they just ssy it aint true
You can hate a story beat and still understand it happened anyone watch dragon ball?
Vegetto was a fusion that could last forever in dbz but in dragon ball super, it has a time limit why cause the person writing the story simply decided to discard some older elements
And yes it makes no sense lore wise why these changes legendary beasts or otherwise happen but its how the person wrote the story
@@DragonBallsolosyourverse Nothing about the Paradox Pokemon really got confirmed though. In the actual game, the characters don't know for sure where Paradox Pokemon came from. The language they use in game when talking about them is very specific in a way that makes it clear the characters don't really know and are speculating.
So there's no actual confirmation in the lore that they're the past or future forms of anything. In fact, most people (in my experience) seem to have accepted the dream theory for the explanation of where they came from.
Which is a theory that implies Terapagos and Area Zero have the power to materialize the dreams of humans who enter, and the Paradox Pokemon we see in the game are manifestations of the dreams of either professor Sada or Turo and how they imagine Pokemon of the past and future will/did look like. And part of that theory comes from the way the in game sketches of the Paradox versions of the Legendary Beasts and Swords of Justice both look like amalgamations of all three Paradox forms rather than actually being any of the three.
If there were real hard confirmation in the games for where they came from, I would just accept it for what it is, because that would be a proper retcon, rather than the unconfirmed theory crafting by characters in game that we currently have. Me saying I'm still convinced my own idea is true is a reaction to other theories of where Paradox Pokemon came from, both the fan base theories, and the unconfirmed beliefs of characters in the games for where they came from.
I personally think there is another layer in addition to this.
Ho-oh was originally supposed to symbolize the sun. Past paradox mons get powered up by intense sun.
I'm thinking Ho-oh may have been around for a LONG time. The beasts in the burned tower I believe were simply Eevee. When they perished in the event, Ho-oh merely injected them with the spirits of ancient powerful pokemon, in turn giving them some of their appearance. This would be a double dip into the pheonix trope as well.
It also begs the question, was Ho-Oh originally from Johto at all?
@@sonicfan2403how
I kinda hope they do Legends Celebi and it’s set at the time the tower burns down. I think playing through that and discovering what happened would be awesome. I would buy the game purely for that part
If any pokemon/region deserve another Legends game, I think it has to be Zygarde. There is so much left on the table there.
I’m partial to the theory that the paradox legendary beasts are separate pokemon that had also been affected by ho-oh in times prior
Yeah, I am thinking Ho-Oh borrowed from them for the resurrection.
Minor correction: while Pokémon masters does confirm Valerie is from johto, in the ho-oh event, she tells us she isn’t a kimono girl
I keep saying, it's canon there are more than one of the Beasts. Ho-Oh didn't necessarily create them entirely, just resurrect them in that form.
Multiple ho-oh created multiple beasts in different contexts and locations
I don't know why people refuse to acknowledge this, the games have had multiple at once, anime has had multiple. The burned tower was an isolated event were ho oh turned other pokemon into the beasts, not that the beasts don't exist prior.
If there were only the 3 beasts, how is there canonically the shiny ones in both game and show. Not even including the other ones constantly shown.
The beasts are probably one of the most common legendaries along with the Regis and birds. So them having ancestors make sense, same way the birds have divergent evolution
One Ho-oh made the first then Arceus Ctrl-C Ctrl-V-ed them
@@michaeldaniels642 Ho-Oh didn't create the first, just one specific set.
Counts on how Arceus is viewed. Arceus though definitely has the power to create pokemon. Gamefreak though never has the Arceus events revealed through Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum though Arceus and the lore of it exist in the game. Just proved Gamefreak was ashamed of making Arceus lore but it makes sense.
Arceus is capable of creating an Egg hatching Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina meaning yes. Arceus creates the very pokemon that has control over Time/Space/Distortion. Why do we need to consider Legendary only one if Arceus can make many at will? Also Multiple Arceus is also possible since Arceus can be at more than one.
Also it proves there's many alternate universes/timelines but people's brains are just way too small to consider the possibilities.
Yet again if people can't comprehend it, why try to make sense of Legendaries if you don't understand what Gamefreak is trying to write about?
@birdkeepertoby I want to expand your theory of Arceus being related to third legendaries of last four generations.
1.Necrozma can manipulate space. (Similar to Palkia)
2.Terapagos can manipulate time. (Similar to Dialga)
3.Eternatus distorts space-time in it's eternamax form. (Similar to Giratina).
4.Zygarde controls life force. (Similar to uxie, mesprit, azelf controlling elements related to life like knowledge, willpower, emotion etc)
I don’t think Zygarde controls life force as much as it just exists to keep cataclysmic beings in check and make sure the earth doesn’t get destroyed
@@itsturniptime3699 Zygarde Only Protects The Ecosystem & That Was Only A Kalos Thing . He Didn’t Have Any Role In Gen 7 Because That’s Ultra Necrozma’s Game !
@@melvondrewhite2674 keep cataclysmic beings in check, IE, Yveltal and Xerneas if they ever went rogue or those weird evil roots from the anime. I still stand by the fact that Zygarde itself does not control the life force of living creatures, it can’t just decide on a whim what lives and what dies
@@itsturniptime3699 That’s True He Doesn’t , So You Agree That They Are Levels To This & Every Single Legendary Isn’t Of Equal ??!
@Bruno Caruso I agree that the terapagos we saw in the trailer does not look like a being that could manipulate time. But every third legendary has a secondary form, if you look at terapagos from Heath's artwork, it does look like an eldritch god similar to necrozma, eternatus etc, As you said, the time machine WAS powered by terastal energy of Terapagos. Similar to how lusamine used cosmog's energy to open portals to ultra space. Necrozma does that too, it is mentioned that the energy that created z moves and totem pokemons is the same energy that overflows through the portals created by necrozma.
This is what i assumed was the case with the "paradox beasts", but then it brings up more questions regarding paradox virizion, the remainder of the "paradoxes of justice", and their respective role in the pokemon world lore (if any).
I’ll admit, the thumbnail art had me questioning raikous design, but I actually kinda dig it 😂
aw ty ^_^
Therezinosaurus inspired it seems. Really cool
@@BirdKeeperToby just got announced that it is in fact a long neck!
I wonder if there’s any connection between the Scarlet Beast, and the statue in Sinnoh of the amalgamated Dialga and Palkia. Both seem to be a combined depiction of what ends up being very separate pokemon in reality.
I don’t know if I’m totally sold on the idea of Walking Wake being revived into Suicune. Walking Wake and Iron Leaves both fill the same roll of matching with their designated group of Paradox Pokémon. We can infer that all of the past Paradox Pokémon come from the same time period or at least should be somewhat close together time wise considering how many similarities they share. It’s also plausible that they are manifestations from Sada’s mind which in turn would mean Walking Wake is too, fitting with the rest of the set. In both scenarios, Walking Wake is a dinosaur and while we have multiple dinosaur-like Pokémon wandering around in modern day it feels strange to have Walking Wake be around since the ancient era only to then be turned into a vague mammal creature.
I also personally don’t believe both groups of Paradox Pokémon exist at the same time despite being able to be traded and having dex entries. We know each game and save file is an alternate universe and the Paradox Pokémon appeared because of the time machine built by Sada or Turo but it doesn’t make sense for them to be from the same machine at the same time. All of this is very mysterious.
…it just clicked to me why Ho-oh has the regenerator ability
I'm sorry Toby but I don't think the paradox Pokémon will be the ones that died in the burnt tower. Since they are called ''paradox'' Pokémon, and if they explain it as these were just the original versions that wouldn't be much of a paradox. If anything that makes the normal versions the paradox since they were the ones brought back from the death.
I think they will either not explain them to keep them a paradox or hint at them being created or influenced in design by the time machine and scarlet/violet book.
Still great video man, enjoyed watching it.
As someone who is obsessed with the lore of Johto's Legendary Beasts, this catches my attention.🤩
My theory is pretty much the same. In time travel stories when someone tries to change history something similar replaces it and that’s what the paradox Pokémon could be. Or they could come from different timelines or realities with different history.
This does also mean that the Paradox part for the Paradox Beasts is them existing. Since The Legendary beasts would be able to recognize their original forms. After all this does make sense for why these are Paradox mons.
I kept thinking in that Generations short, hose Pokemon looks like different dog-like Pokemon, maybe ones who left Johto after three of their kind died. Maybe Suicune, Entei and Raikou got their former Pokemon selves out of Johto to save them from a fate like theirs, trapped somewhere and burned to death. Maybe one day we'll get a dog pokemon that much more closely resembles those shadows in the West Tower and it all connects back to Johto?
Walking Wake and another two being the killed mons makes more sense than Eeveelutions. The Eeveelutions are foxes which are canines but the Beasts are based on Feline animals with Leopard, Lion and Tiger being Suicune, Entei and Raikou respectively.
Ehhh I don’t buy it. Where did the info about the tower burning down 150 years before HGSS come from? I still feel the book was written after the fact.
I'm pretty sure there's an npc who just straight up says when the tower burned down 150 years ago in the same town said tower is in.
@@morphstarchangeling8024 Oh Fair, I must have missed that dialogue. Though, I still don't believe the Paradoxes were the Pokemon that perished.
I just can't agree with saying that the origin of the regular legendaries themselves are the Paradox versions - the version that shouldn't exist in this timeline. That in and of itself would make the beasts "Paradoxes" as there is no true origin point for their evolution.
I actually think the pokemon generations episode with its silhouettes is an affectionate reference to the beta designs of raikou, entei and suicune, which were discarded and died without ever seeing the light of day, before being rebooted and reborn into their current designs
Hooh read the book and was inspired
Entei is: "A Pokémon that races across the land. It is said that one is born every time a new volcano appears."
There are populations of these Pokémon and the legitimacy of the legend of Ho-Oh is questionable at best.
The transition from the dragon shrine out of Hassel's eye was really well done.
I like the third theory behind paradox Pokemon; that they’re just from alternate universes where certain events either lead to Pokemon evolving (traditionally) slower or faster. Not actually the past or future of Paldea present or a translated line present in only the Chinese version of the games cuz time travel is banned
I believed that the paradox pokemon from the past fossilize pokemon like the other fossil pokemon are somehow connected to the hisui region of ancient sinnoh and is possible they may be a comeback.
While the future paradox pokemon are man made and are connected to the genesect project that team plasma in unova created and there will be a black and white remake and I'm hoping the graphic designs aren't like the BDSP game
Black and white don’t need remakes 😕 after ORAS and BDSP I’m worried how the next remakes will be handled
black and white 3 would be better
@@morphstarchangeling8024 100% agree that way we can finally see what the origin dragon looks like
@@nazeersadek6705 omega ruby and alpha sapphire are the second best Pokémon games. I do agree on bdsp though.
@@Tsukune2001 they were good games but could have been much better if they added some stuff from emerald like the team magma base in MT chimney, the mirage tower in the desert and the obviously the battle frontier
Once again, I can't help but feel the events of the Burned Tower would make for a spectacular Legends game.
Dang those artworks are awesome. If we do end up getting these in the later dlcs, I hope they look similar to these.
Maybe but we should lower that hope just a bit so we don't get disappointed.
Personally I don’t think that they’re actually going to be a thing, but if they were I’d want them to look like this
Ok
I wonder if, perhaps, the story of the burned tower is a case of two myths colliding? Like the story of Ho-oh making the beasts, creatures of both disaster and healing, existed before the tower burned down. And when it appeared over the tower and the beasts did as well, they connected the old story to the new event.
Me sees the pokemon cards shown....
"Wait they look familiar dont I have..." they come in twos right the legends cards, if so I'm missing only one from the set. The top card of entei and raikou set and I have the urge to finish it T-To
My theory is that Ho-oh has simply revived Pokémon like the beast trio before, and when Pokémon are revived by Ho-oh they become sort of ‘decorated’ in a certain aesthetic that makes them look the way they do.
If the beasts were originally Eeveelutions then their appearances drastically changed.
I imagine that whatever Pokémon became the paradox beasts might have been just normal Pokémon that perished in a situation similar to the tower that Ho-oh then revived
Narrative, artworks, animations, transitions all 10/10 excellent work 🤩
I feel like a more likely scenario is that the three nameless pokemon were decendants of the ancient Waking Wake and such, and Ho-oh's power simply reawakened the dormant primodial genes within them, causing them to take similar but not quite as prehistoric forms...
You know, assuming the paradox pokemon are *actually* real...
Maybe Ho-oh, being a phoenix, only has dominion over life. Because of this, it can't use the Unown for creation. Arceus has no bounds what it can use the Unown for, but Ho-oh is only capable of bestowing life to those who lost theirs.
Obviously, Paradox forms are PARADOXICAL Figures that Shouldn't exist but do
Hence "Paradox" forms
Funny thing but I somehow (I realy don't remember how) actually got the lower half of the Suicune&Entei legends card in german (because I'm german). I didn't know what's up with this card till later in life it clicked that it was half a card. I don't think I actually saw the full card till now. So now I know how the full card looks like thanks to you. 😁
I really feel they seriously fucked up with walking wake. They had the opportunity to further cement into the tree of life the ancestors to the cat, vulpine, and dog like pokemon. Raikou is obviously a severtooth cat. Entei is the biggest of floof boys. And suicine is the elegant fox beast. They could have done way better. Make Entei fire fighting. The things on its legs look like training weights. Suicide could have been water ice or fairy. Maybe even psychic if ya want to keep a trio with Raikou being an electric dark. That stalked it's prey with quick attacks from the shadows. Then, when ho-oh resurrects the trio/gives them some of the power to the dying unknown pokemon they only get the main element type. With just remnants of what they once were. The leg weights, the black stripes, and the illusory effect of suicine.
I love this video so much!!!
It's always so call to find that you've released a new video.
also, It's interesting that Walking wake can walk on water, because Suicune, I believe can also. THat's a nice possible link.
Imagination makes a lot more sense with Suicune not existing intel 150 years ago so could not have evolved, and no evidence of the paradoxes ever existing like with fossils, also that is why all these pokemon are paradoxes, because they don't belong.
Pokemon voilet paradox forms are artificial robots because because the pokemon went extinct.
During MandJTV's meme review someone had posted about how Walking Wake being possible. The unkown pokemon that died before it was turned into Suicune could've been a modern evolution of what Walking Wake would regress into (like how t-rex turned into chickens it seems) then when Ho-Oh revived them some of the DNA that was dormant in the revived pokemon turned it into Suicune we know today.
Pokémon Masters actually disproves that Valerie is a kimono girl and it’s not a theory, she blatantly says she’s not a kimono girl
The beasts live naturally, Ho-oh just created new ones. The games and anime already show there are more than one. Due to how common they are shown in anime and games it's very likely they can just be normal pokemon that are very strong and rare that went through normal evolution, possibly even more common before.
The burned tower has already been proven an isolated event so don't know why everyone forgets that and thinks Ho-oh created the only beasts
The paradoxes are never seen before now and are only suppose to be in area zero and even if they did get out move to another region how where they never seen though all of that and get into a well know location. Even if they are hard to spot all very elusive Pokémon a at least glimpse, and are mentioned making them know about as mythical.
I am pretty sure what the unknow make in the third movie are psychic constructs not real flush and blood creatures.
The editing was amazing! A delightful sight
I firmly believe that the Legendary Beasts exist as full species and that the Burned Tower trio were already the Beasts before dying and being revived by Ho-Oh. This is something I believed long before SV even came out, and Walking Wake enforces that belief.
I do kind of like your theory that Walking Wake and two other counterparts were transformed into the Legendary Beasts by Ho-Oh. I'm not convinced, but it's better than the Eeveelution theory at least.
Ho-Oh's revival abilities are referenced in the item Sacred Ash, which it's holding when you catch it. Sacred Ash is like a Max Revive for everything in your party at once.
The Draconids are never stated to have left Hoenn. I still don't understand why you think they're connected to every lore-heavy ancient group. They also weren't the only group in Hoenn, such as the Sootopolitans and whoever made the Regi rooms in Hoenn (it was not the Draconids).
I don't think the Kimono Girls have that many inter-regional connections, either. Johto and Kanto, sure. Kalos only has Valerie, who seems to have immigrated to there. Saying the girls wearing kimonos in Hoenn are Kimono Girls feels like a big stretch, though.
clearly, this means Ho-Oh knows how to read and it read the Scarlet Book.
My personal theory is Ho-oh has the ability, perhaps even limited, to Resurrect.
Perhaps by granting them new powers over Fire, Water, and Electric.
The forms while similar are different because of the type of Pokémon that was Resurrected.
While Suicune was a canine type Pokémon, Walking Wake was a reptile like a Feraligatr or similar Pokémon.
What would a paradox Ho-oh and Lugia look like? I wonder if a future version would just fuse them together into a mega bird.
Early squad, where ya at?
I honestly think that the Time Machine not only influences time, but space too. In other words, it can manipulate reality. I believe it creates the paradox Pokémon much like the ultimatrix created Ben’s aliens ultimate forms. The idea is the Time Machine picks a Pokémon at any point and time, and throws it in an extremely harsh reality, either in the past or the future, and thus, the Pokémon have to evolve and adapt in order to survive. Perhaps the harshness of the reality they are placed in explains their very agressive disposition
Valerie said she wasn't a Kimono Girl in Pokemon Masters.
The storytelling in this video was especially superb, I enjoyed it a lot. I at first thought Ho-oh revived three mystery Pokemon in the tower into the present-day beasts and was inspired by these paradoxes since they and Ho-oh (a bird) are also dinosaurs, perhaps they were like friends in the Pokemon equivalent of the Mesozoic. But I never thought about the paradoxes literally being what lead to the present-day beasts, like the idea of the paradox versions being imaginary pokemon just messing around, but like died and were brought back and why the present-day beasts look more "responsible" or "mature". Maybe they learned just how powerful they are and how much damage they can actually cause
I like to see if they make a pokemon legends for johto and that way we see the truth on the legendary beasts true origins on how they look like and how ho-oh was connected to their rebirth
Take a drink every time Toby digresses... 🤪
I don't think they'll ever say exactly what happened, however, I think the best explanation would involve closed timelike curves (CTCs). A lot of the data in the Pokédex (and by extension the Scarlet and Violet books) may just be flat-out inaccurate.
Hi toby love your content!
"Wlaking"
"zERO"
Also it's hidden treasure not hidden secret
now you may "🤓" me
All the past one are reptillian
I agree with you that Entei and Raikou will both get paradox forms. But I also believe Ho-Oh will get one as well.
What if all that, but instead it was a jolteon, vaporeon, and flareon that perished in the tower and were reborn into the a version of the paradox trio which is why they do not have the dragon typing. They were clearly some form of nobility or very highly looked upon by the public and when the tower burned down and they were trapped inside, the paradox trio heard the cries of the people and they gave their own lives with the help of ho-oh to give life to them once more. Fusing themselves with the eeveelutions and creating the legendary beast trio we know today.
Nintendo should Hire this man
I think we’ll probably get the other two paradox legendaries for each game just in the base game, like Walking Wake and Iron Leaves.
This is like the mother of Pkmn theories for me to disagree with! 😮
I already wasn't a fan of any of the individual parts, but you combined them in a way that I don't like so much that I didn't even consider it as possible!
...I am just imagining it,
how the Paradox beasts leave Paldea, then roam PokeEarth for a 100 million years,
just to walk into the Brass Tower on the wrong day and go "aw shit, I should've stayed in Paldea" as it gets destroyed 😂
Perfect
It was probably just a retcon
They similarly turned the legendary birds into a wider species with regional variants
*sigh* An interesting video. I do find it frustrating how the company (whether it be Nintendo or game freak), they don’t ever clarify in the games what all this connects to. I wish there was more environmental story telling or at least some kind of explanation of why and how this happen. Could simply make to where the rooms we enter in that other world, have diagrams of the ancient or future Pokémon, pointing out the different then maybe a piece of paper on the desk, explaining how the Pokémon lost parts of itself because of evolution or how their bodies were forced to take on heavier armor or skin, hence the metallic outer body structure.
Raikou looked like a smilodon therizinosaurus hybrid? Man, I hope we get that!
I imagine the swords of justice future form may have something to do with them losing there natural habitat like in B2/W2 and they may have been modified to fit in the modern era!
My personal interpretation is just that Walking Wake, and potential other equivalents to the other 2 Legendary Beasts, are more like the Galarian Legendary Birds, in that they aren't actually necessarily directly related (although maybe both groups still have ties to Ho-Oh as its guardian trio?), but simply happen to resemble one another, also comparable to how Iron Leaves most likely didn't directly evolve from Virizion, but is instead simply a robot built in its image.
Again, Ho-Oh still might also be involved with Walking Wake, it'd be kinda weird for Ho-Oh to only have had a guardian trio for 150 years when it itself is at least a few centuries older, so maybe we can assume that Walking Wake is part of a previous guardian trio of Ho-Ohs (or perhaps a Legendary Ancestors of it?) and was given the same or similar powers as Suicune was given later on, maybe similarly to how Ho-Oh resurrected the Legendary Beasts, it resurrected Walking Wake and its companions from dinosaur-fossils even.
Will you have to change the outro to the new protagonists for the remaining of the year? XD
Ancient? Walks on water? Dinosaur-like? Raptor Jesus confirmed.
Now I am wondering if there is a Pokémon multiverse with all this lore that’s INSANELY DEEP like seriously
the book in THE GAME ITSELF also said the paradox beast was an imagined mon anyway. thats your first clue. this "game theory" is impossible to be canon period.
The fact that these Pokémon stoke the Theorist Imagination so much just solidifies for me that they’re likely not real. These Pokémon were made to create scenarios like these, make us think, get our minds brimming with Possibilities. They’re the ‘missing link’ just like how we got a Dragon Type Charizard through the Tera Raids.
Not that I dislike the theory! All the past paradox Pokémon have such interesting possibilities tied to them! It’s so unusual! But the lack of anything concrete about them (even a habitat for these newest ones) makes it hard to go with anything aside from ‘well this Pokémon exists, that must MEAN something’
Maybe these games should be called Pokémon Fact and Pokémon Fiction because I’m noticing a trend with Paradox theories In regards to which ones are seen as more ‘viable’ in the community haha.
Quick Question: where does it says that the Beast Trio that Ho-Oh resurrected was the first of their kind?
Perhaps Walking Wake and the other two actually are ancestors of the Legendary Beasts and the Legendary Beasts have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years and Ho-Oh simply resurrected 3 specific Pokemon that could or not already have been the Beasts...
as for the Bird Trio, they don't follow Lugia in all games because they are not related, that was only One Lugia and Three Birds, no other Lugia relates to the Birds and the introduction of the Galarian Birds further proves this. But you know who follows Lugia? the Beast Trio... where there is Ho-Oh there is Lugia, which logic cuz they are a Duo, the only Games they are not present with each other is DX and Colosseum, which so happens that are not made by Game Freak, but in ORAS, you need the Beast Trio to get to Lugia, the same Gen where the Birds show in a Main Core Game but not Lugia like you mentioned. the resaon why the Birds follow lugia in every Game is because Every Legendary is in those Games as well, so that's not quite uinic to them.
Finally, the beasts that is represented in the Scarlet Book cannot be Walking Wake and co. The tails of Walking Wake and the Horns are different, they resemble more Suicune and it has diffrent tails than Walking Wake as well as a smaller horn like in the book. But if you want to make sense of this theory, then use the Anime Canon, in the Anime, they explicitly say Ho-Oh created the Beasts 300 years ago, that makes 100 years before the Scarlet book... but then again, in the Anime, Ho-Oh didn't resurrected any Pokemon.
I figured that if you use Roaring Moon as proof, that the Pokemon who died in the tower were unique, unseen Legendaries already, maybe mythicals kept as sacred beasts by people. When Ho-oh revived them, giving them aspects of the ancient paradox forms, the people feared what they had become, twisted, unknown, more powerful versions whose very cries cracked open the landscape (Enteis barks). They were like Mega Evolutions but uncontrolled because they lost their bond with people.
Wow thank you for telling I can't even imagine how cool that is
I was hoping Legends Arceus would be about the crimes of Giratina that it was banished for, making the first villian that was a Pokemon in history. Can you make a video on what that would have been like? No Pokeballs, just befriending them similar to how Pokemon Rangers link to Pokemon now, and having things like that herd of wild Shieldon being a thing like in the anime for rare Pokemon- they were fossils, but also not extinct, just very rare. No base camps. You have to keep your supplies on hand, maybe on a Rapidash?
Once again with the disappointing theories for this generation... Picking and choosing points from a variety of sources while ignoring counterpoints in those same sources, and pointing out arguments against your theory that aren't even there.
I'll be quick with this one, because it's rather simple. First and foremost, the whole "imaginary Paradox Pokemon" theory is garbage, always has been, and any elements of this theory that take from that one is also garbage as such. But I've pointed out the flaws in that theory in past videos, on this channel and others, so I won't do so again here.
That point aside, the Legendary Beasts and their origins. We know there are multiple iterations of Raikou, Entei, and Suicune, having seen a few NPC trainers in the games using them, the first that comes to mind being Annabel in Pokemon Emerald having an Entei. If we look to spin-offs, side series, the anime, the manga, spin off anime, etc, there's even more examples, such as all three being found in Gale of Darkness. And that's ignoring the fact they are obtainable in a few games, including being available in FrLg despite it taking place a few years before we awaken them in the Johto games, plus events that imply there being multiple, namely the Shiny Beasts event that gave access to Zoroark in BW (unlike other events, it's hard to argue these are non-canon, and the fact they are shiny implies there has to be others as well). All in all, there are multiples of these Pokemon... But Ho-Oh only revived three Pokemon. So this would imply that Ho-Oh reviving these Pokemon was not the creation of the species. It may have turned other Pokemon into them, but since we don't know what Pokemon died (keep in mind that the Eeveelution theory is just that, a theory), it's also possible they already were Raikou, Entei, and Suicune and it was just those specific iterations of them that were revived.
Being on mobile, I can't easily rewatch the video to confirm things as I type, but your mentions of the Kimono girls seemed wrong. There's only 5 confirmed, 6 if you count Bill's mother having been one. There is the theory about Valerie, but that's only a theory and really doesn't change things even if it were accurate. They don't hold this massive role in the history of things. They gave the egg to Mr. Pokemon, they called Lugia or Ho-Oh depending on the game. But for the most part, they just watched you in a few places. That's all. Again, however, on mobile I can't easily rewatch the video while commenting to confirm the extent of the inaccuracies here.
The Pokemon Generations depiction of the event doesn't show them as Houndour or anything. They're vaguely dog-shaped shadows, nothing more. They're meant to look generic and unrecognizable, not an implication of what they were.
Half of the video felt like filler, namely how the Brass Tower burned and the stuff about the Goldenrod tower. Some small corrections in those points, but again, I don't see why they were even mentioned beyond the story of the Burned Tower setting when the event happened since that detail is important to the theory. But even that wouldn't have been nearly as much discussion of the topic as was given. Again, can't rewatch the video on mobile while typing a comment to double check what the whole point of mentioning those were but theories about how the tower burned or the fact there used to be one in Goldenrod isn't really pertinent to the whole theory...
Overall, as stated before, been really disappointed in the theories this Pokemon generation, it's like every Pokemon theorist stopped doing thorough research and began disregarding facts more...
I don’t think the three creatures that burned were the paradox forms. They are huge and powerful dragon types. They would just break out of the burning tower. Most likely unnamed creatures the people use for food or young eevees.
I believe the artist that went into Area Zero traveled to Johto and Kalos learning the myths of the two trios or possibly seeing them.
In IRL history Portugal had trade with Japan and The Three Musketeers are a French story.
I don’t think the devs have a hard set in stone timeline. With a difference of only 25-50 years it’s most likely they just messed up the numbers. It’s not uncommon for them to miss small details especially given the state of S&V’s release.
This is a thing i have been thinking for a while know and i will use this opportunity to say it. I don't think that the "burned tower story" is more than a legend.
The reason i think so is more meta, more about seeing the real life part of things.
At the same generation that this story was introduced, Gold and Silver, it was already controversial. Entei's pokedex in pokemon Silver was telling us that Enteis are born every time a new vulcano is born. There is no need to prove or disprove neither of them tho, because
Again, that was at the same generation that the "burned tower story" was introduced.. So i thought of two possibilities:
1. The developers forgot/didn't communicate
2. The developers never intended for NEITHER to be more than legends.
The 1st seem very unlikely to me. If that was the case they wouldn't be repeating it again on other pokedexes (like the indian elephant one)...
That is the reason i did not believe that the legendary beasts were actually "born" from Hooh, because since the beggining they have ambiguous and contradictory origin stories, what implies that the developers never intended for neither to be true. Walking Wake just confirmed that for me..
Well i may be missing stuff so if someone knows something i don't i would be glad to know
Not going to lie, I think Ho-oh took inspiration from the paradox beast monsters when reviving the "dogs" (if they were real and not imagined beasts in the first place cause paradox pokemon still aren't explained) I get the feeling this actually confirms the eevee\eeveelution theory a bit cause Ho-oh revives them as the "eevee-fied" or dog-ified version of those original paradox beasts to make them more powerful and immortal after that storm. And I think that the crazy combined beast was a combination of all 3 that may be eluding to the fusion mechanic of gen 5. Maybe there is a way to fuse them?
I personally never understood the theory of the Paradox Pokémon being imaginary. It just requires too many assumptions to be plausible and creates more problems than it could potentially answer. Besides, no one wants Sada/Turo's neglect of their own child to be all for nothing. It's better to believe that they actually achieved real time travel on their own to create a world where both professors and Arven could live together than to just assume they made a legendary-powered imagination machine without realizing it and accomplished absolutely nothing.
I can't see anything beyond the paradox pokemon not being from the past / future and instead being some bizarre creation. Therefore I don't think the paradox pokemon were in the johto region nearly 200 years ago. There's too many contradictions in the book which the characters reference in the story for it not to be deliberate and part of the future DLC.
I don't think we'll learn about this until the 2nd wave of DLC comes out in 2024
Awesome vid dude, but I just can't agree that the 'Paradox pokemon' are genuine pokemon. I think they're just a separate thing all together.
Can I make a point?
Isn't it more possible that the 3 Pokemon that died in the tower were Eevee?
If you think about it Eevee can evolve into those types, Ho-Oh could have just pushed the 3 beyond the norm and into legendary Pokemon. Connecting them farther to the Kimono Girls. Their design could be based on the populist recent memories of the books or simply Ho-Oh just made them the avatars of those elements from olden days since Eevee as a species has been around just as long as the lore of Mew.
Yeah, and then Ho-oh would have a Paradox form that's a Quetzalcoatl...
F@#$! Now I actually want to see that.
Regarding the depiction of the beast from the scarlet book, maybe Ho-Oh was able to revive the beast by harnessing and splitting his soul into the three bodies of the trapped pokemon.
I have to disagree, but only because violet version exists, and because I think the other new thing introduced (convergent evolution) is our biggest hint as to what paradox pokemon really are.
scarlet and violet are two parallel universes of the same region. only one sees walking wake and whatever the other two will be, and the other iron leaves. but the 3 dogs still exist in both versions no matter what. the 3 dogs exist in a world WITHOUT the scarlet beast drawing, walking wake, and the other two. they CAN'T be related unless we're willing to say in the world where scarlet happens, the 3 dogs come from the 3 ancient pokemon of walking wake/the other two but in the parallel world where violet happens, the exact same events play out at the same time with the exact same outcome, but with....3 different pokemon, unrelated to the scarlet beasts? that doesn't make sense, and I'm not willing to agree to that. if the 3 dogs' forms are based on what died, ie, ancient versions, giving them a less "monstrous" appearance, then in the violet universe, the 3 dogs would look different, being closer to whatever pokemon died in that universe. they wouldn't have the same outcome unless what died looked nothing like the end result. considering the paradox situation exists in both worlds, and both worlds have to exist within all canon, we have to take both into consideration when it comes to connecting them to other regions' lore.
I still believe all paradox mons were created by talapagos the same way the unknown made an entei for molly. she saw it in a book, so they made her imagination real to make her happy. likewise, many of the exploration team most likely had their minds running like wild with theories of what kind of creatures they'd find (such as "pokemon of the ancient past, untouched by time with no need to (actual) evolve" or "pokemon of the far future touched greatly by scientific advancement") and so talapagos created those very creatures for them, but the artist who drew them in the book wasn't the one that imagined them, and didn't get the best look at some of them (or ANY look at them, and misunderstood when a wildly excited co-explorer was trying to describe them before they too forgot, and 3 creatures became one), which is why some of the drawing are accurate and some aren't.
but this is where I think we're missing the biggest hint to this. convergent evolution. two things that look similar but aren't the same. somehow, through imagination, two creatures with similar abilities and features came to be, entirely separately.
we could say the 3 scarlet beasts escaped the crater and maybe evolved with time into something different, and it's this *ancestor* to the 3 beasts that became the 3 pokemon that perished and were revived. and that maybe the people of johto had never seen such a creature, and so it was lost in the chaos and the lore evolved to be interpreted as 3 normal pokemon taking on a new shape when in reality ho-oh just brought them back to life, and they were already in that form, or maybe they did look different but because the people didn't know what they were and couldn't identify them, what differences they really had were still lost to time and now modern day people still assume it was 3 normal pokemon that exist in johto and would have been in the tower at that moment, since that makes the most logical sense, instead of 3 strange creatures entirely unknown to johto who just happened to be in the tower at that moment and died.
but that doesn't really make sense. you would think such creatures being in the middle of a human settlement would have caught attention, and not been lost to history, and that still doesn't reconcile the fact that the violet universe still exists. and, the game constantly tells us these creatures are a PARADOX, their existence, having EVER existed, simply doesn't make sense. they CAN'T naturally exist even with a time machine. looking at the past forms as actual ancient forms that would over time evolve into modern day pokemon, who will then one day continue to evolve or be altered into the far future's robots, completely ignores the whole point, that is right in the name. not to mention the future forms all have a very The Jetsons, Back To The Future/"home of the future" vibes to them where old media tried to imagine what the future would be like with robot maids and instant automated food prep and actual hovering skateboards, which are all now laughably silly. the idea that ALL pokemon will just become robots, or maybe that all organic LIFE including human life, will become robots is just not how it works. they'd surely evolve, but not like this. and that's because it's all from human imagination, made a reality by a living fisher price toy.
This is going to take some time to say. However, I can explain the past pokemon better than the game did.
The paradox pokemon may not be a result of time travel, but genetic mutation. In teal life, a mutation is actually a primitive trait being presented I a modern organism. For example, there was a dolphin born with extra fins that resemble the fins of its ancestors. Another example is the wolf eel that suffers from extreme giganticism due to living too close to chernobyl.
I believe the scientific advancement in the pokemon world as well as human caused economic downfall, the professors of pokemon have been trying to get new sources of electricity. This has led to the experimentation with nuclear power.
The future and past pokemon are a result of secretly used nuclear power plants. The "past paradox" pokemon are mutations. The "future paradox" pokemon are modified living pokemon upgraded to survive they changing climate.
This all given that I haven't played skarlet or violet. There may be details I need to know before saying all this. Feel free to challenge this theory.
An idea for the Swords of justice version of this story maybe Kyurem finally slayed the 3 main Swords causing Kobalion to go into hiding and to reach out to Reshiram and Zekrom who brought the bodies of the Swords to humans who rebuilt them as cyborgs and bringing them back to defeat Kyurem again.
As the Legendary -Cats- Beasts were born from the minds of People, perhaps the Swords of Justice were born from the minds of Pokemon. The lore of the Swords goes that they appeared to defend and protect Pokemon from the actions of humans fighting a war and, wouldn't you know it, causing a *fire.* It wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility then, that the Pokemon trapped and desperate in the fire imagined heros appearing to save them. Heros, possibility resurrected from three Pokemon, or one, that had already perished in the fire. Possibly Victini who wished for a victor to be decided in the war, but could not bring itself to support either of the human factions, but instead created heralds of victory for the Pokemon.
lore of paradox beast comes from the "time machine" the thing that never was able to confirm that it did work in that manner. past never left information for the future either.
its FAR more likely to just be created mons based on imagination in conjunction with the tera energy that a particular LEGENDARY has complete control of.
It's so ridiculous how powerful Unown is in all the lore, including the game lore itself, but how terrible it is in battle lol. They should get an ability like Wishiwashi and Hidden Power should be exclusive to unown and super effective to whatever it's facing
While I like the look of the fan-made Paradox Raikou, I think it would be cool if the Paradox version of at least Raikou was a winged dragon/dinosaur/beast rather than a terrestrial reptile/dinosaur that walks & runs like Walking Wake.
There’s a very simple explanation for walking wake ho-oh plagerized
The "bipeds ran so fast they looked like a quadruped" thing makes no sense tbh. Seems more likely that was the Trio Master of the Paradoxes that helped Ho-Oh with the resurrection or something. The future one could be the teacher of a new generation of Swords.
But... can Lugia really solo three paradox legendaries?
I don't think they're weak enough to die from a fire accident either.
I'll be honest, I think the pokemon franchise is going in such a weird direction that I just can't follow it anymore. The lore of dialga and palkia has kinda been retconned in such a stupid way by giving them new "origin forms". No amount of denial can sustain my headcanon that dialga and palkia don't have those forms. I also don't like that walking wake has really weird implications for the lore behind the legendary beasts. The gimmicks are getting out of hand and for me, it will be the death of the franchise