How Canada 2010 shaped F1 for a decade - Chain Bear explains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2019
- The Canadian GP in 2010 provided an enthralling spectacle of tyre management and strategy - unexpected wear rates and erratic pit stops gave F1 chiefs pointers for the direction the sport was to take for the following years.
Chain Bear explains how the Bridgestone tyres, track resurfacing and temperature management all played a part in an unpredictable race. - กีฬา
2013: the tyres keep blowing up at silverstone, this is an outrage
2020: the tyres keep blowing up at silverstone, this is the best race i've seen in years
2021: the tyres keep blowing up at baku, this is an outrage
@@potatofive8711 2022: Tires stops degrading, this is an outrage
@@somerandominternetuser9172 medium tires explode after 16 laps
imagine ferrari having to deal with multiple pit stops and more strategy
Not like they did it to perfection at their prime. Imagine Mercedes having to cope with tyres and aero 2010-13.
Does anyone else remember that six-stop win in China that they pulled off? I think it was 2006, but I could be wrong about that. That one stands out to me as a race where they pulled a rabbit out of their hat.
You're right, Williams might not end last!
@@GaryWagers That race had rain though
Or fia penalties
2001: Can we go back to 1991/92?
2010: Can we go back to 2001/02 ?
2019. Can we go back to 2010 ?
2029: Can we go back to 2019 ?
I want to skip forward to 2050, wonder what F1 will look like then.
Sir Mounted F1 won’t exist. FE will be the next gen f1
TotalLunatic highly doubt that...F1 itself might become some kind of FE but FE won’t become F1
Klonpilot Hawk F1 will not be a thing anymore, everyone goes to FE
Gotta make a documentary out of that shit...
"imagine having no pits stops" - yeah imagine that.. *looks at forumla E*
They change cars
@@suomalai not anymore
@@suomalai not any more they don't
Can’t compare F1 to what is specifically a spec series. What they lack in pit stops they make up for in fanboost, and Mario kart style turbo spots. These are fun for FE, but don’t want this on F1
@@sloppynyuszi i know, and i agree with you. i think FE is great to watch, but not necessarily the direction F1 should be heading towards. i was talking specifically about not not having pit stops though
everyone liked the racing of 2011-2013 era. lots of risks were taken. lots of battle. different constructors getting wins and podium. there was no gulf in performance between teams. and a lot more entertaining
And then 2014 to now happened...
FIA fucked it up.
@@greatsageclok-roo9013 2014 was actually a great season for close racing
@@clarence8331 Well, if would have been...
If it weren't the fact that Mercedes dominated all bar 3 races that year!
People were complaining back then, like they complained about everything. But still, it was better than recent years with the big aero changes and the hugely complicated front wings. 2010’s front wings weren’t as complicated as 2016-2018
@bumdog I agree, I would not say that actual F1 is perfect but people like to complain a lot. The other problem is that you only "hear" people that are unsatisfied about F1, the majority of the population that likes current F1 don't say it loud and clear, they just watch it and enjoy it. Nowadays, there are so much access to information and so many forums where people can share their hate that you feel people don't like F1 anymore. I guess the situation was similar in the 80's without the internet, the hate was no spreading through the population.
8:01 Maldonado made the whole race with only one set of tyres. True LEGEND!
JingelJjay he was a true conservationist. By crashing most races he used only a fraction the amount of tyres and emitted far less greenhouse gases, something people don’t appreciate SMH
We should probably phrase that as "He only needed one set of tyres for the race."
🤣
Had to check Wikipedia
He did not finished that race...
Not the whole race... Maldonado had a phobia of seeing checkered flags, remember.
In a few years we'll be saying how Canada 2019 shaped F1... 😂
A few unexpected things happened like Max , The Renaults , Stroll , the penalty. But overall it was yet another quite dull and boring race : Mercedes still having the edge in my opinion ( even if I don't like them but facts are facts ) , Ferrari quick on the straights but loses it all in low speed corners , RB ( or actually Max ) somehow there with Ferrari but still lacking some performance , Gasly ?????? Doesn't exist , some slight action in the midfield ( Renault Haas and STR ).
When I have a look at that shown championship standings I go like Jeeeeeeeeeeees I hope 2021 could bring that back.
Maybe
5 second penalty for this comment
Anthony Kennedy how Hockenheim 2019 shaped F1 for a decade?
@@alexburt20 what sort rule changes can gp bring?
I mean it was a great race but there wasn't anything extraordinary in terms of rules affecting teams.
F1 chiefs: we want F1 to be more ecological
Also F1 chiefs: we want tyres that only last for like 100 km
I mean, they recycle the rubber
Oof
@@Papersheepp Sure but how much of it can they recycle? They make this shitty tyre to force drivers to stop an rearrange positions for the show. When a faster car with new tyres end up behind a slow car with old tyres that is about to stop and doesn't even pretend to defend the position because it's utterly useless, the F1 chiefs think F1 fans be like "OMG LOOK THE CAR IS OVERTAKING ANOTHER CAR"
@@Papersheepp and clean up the rubber on the track?
The Bridgestone tyres were virtually bulletproof everywhere else. Drivers could push for the whole race, depending on how greedy they’d been with the race fuel.
Damn you, Canada. Look what we’ve ended up with.
Michael Griffin I’m sorry 😞 can I buy you poutine to make up for it?
barsnbolts lmao how stereotypical of you😂 poutine is delicious though
Yeah because a race where everyone is on a one stop is super exciting i much rather have the Pirellis than the Bridgestones
STOP in a strategical point of view no, but when you have everyone on the same strategy, you need to make the job on the track, so it gives you more show on the track.... i would be ok with the 2010 bridgestone tyres back for my part
also 2016 Pirelli
04:30
Man, even him explaining what happened is more exciting than races in 2019.
I don't bother watching the race just the highlights and even they are fairly mundane these days x:x
You said it Tommy.
@Justice Clark No, I did not watch last weekends race 3 weeks ago.
@Justice Clark You do know that I made this comment 3 weeks ago after the Canadian GP? I watched the race in sunday and it was amazing. Easily the best race of the season.
Fortunately this comment didn't age well, but I'm afraid that after the break it is going to be on point once again.
I think 2010-2013 was one of the best periods in F1 history and it was mainly down to Pirelli.
so why then do we now have snoozefests? it's the same tyres being used
I think it might be better to look at it not as Pirelli, but as a "new tyre supplier"
Canada 2010 worked, because not even Bridgestone knew what was going to happen
see Michelin at USA 2005 for a more extreme example - Bridgestone had at least tested/run non-F1 races there after a trackwork resurface
so it's the tyre supplier not knowing, which causes the issue
the problem might actually be that now we've had 9 years of Pirelli's, so we know what's going to happen (as do the teams, they know that a supers can go for 25 laps comfortably, and then the mediums can go for 35 laps comfortably, it's an easy 1 stop
The mediums at Monaco lasted ~50 laps with Hamilton this year, it'll be WAY more boring next year with this kind of information publicly available now
Russia went the same way after we saw that Rosberg did virtually the whole race in 2014 on one set (after flatspotting his tyres on lap 1 and pitting for the other set)
Pirelli can do all they want, but if you know that soft-supersoft gets the race done easily, then there's not much variance in that strategy is there?
Unless they dramatically weaken their tyres, but that's a marketing nightmare (because who wanted to willingly get Pirelli's after that Silverstone race where they all blew up [and throw in Belgium where they did too])
it might not be a good idea, but maybe all F1 needs is to change the tyres every 5 years or so, so the teams don't get that "oh, we know XYZ tyre lasts for 30 laps here"
Which in turn, causes more interesting races - because if the teams don't know what strategy works, then it's no longer processional
@@pommyadam Because Mercedes are way too dominant. 2011-2013 had engine parity in the field. Force India or Sauber could hook the car up on any given weekend or have a track that suited them and be fighting for podiums at a minimum.
Anyone: 2013 best
Hockenheim & brazil 2019: well well well...
I want the exploding tyres back :-(
@md030201 Air, not oxygen. Air is 80% nitrogen.
@@StuntpilootStef 71%
@@mubpfc If you want to be that precise, it's 78,09%.
@@StuntpilootStef actually also depends on the area, as it changes geographically
they listened to you ;)
So blame Canada is true? I knew it 😂🤣
LOL you reminded me of how much that movie made me laugh
Real sorry 😁
Sorry!
With all their beady little eyes, And flappin' heads so full of lies
we must form a full assault: IT'S CANADA'S FAULT!
Thanks to this, F1 has become tyresome to watch
wheely?
8:34
I think not enough has been done to study 2012 - what made it so good and how we can maintain that level of competition. The first half of that season was about as good as it gets.
I understand not wanting Refueling to return but I wish the cars were smaller. They are far too big these days
@BlaizeV
They could chop off a meter of them via regulation if they wanted to.
@@avada0 just bring back refueling. Refuel before the tires can be touched. Perfectly safe. What F1 should have done instead of banning it all together. FIA is incompetent with rule change.
cars are big because they can, aerodynamics love longer cars
@Mr Burk
That won't necessarily decrease the lengths at all. Plus as it's pointed out in the video it would just result in fever actual overtaking.
I'd rather simply have much more durable tires and no pit stops. With cars shorter by regulation.
(Beside the required changes for overtaking that the 2021 rules should bring.)
@@avada0 thats like 2005 they only used 1 set of tires the whole race there wasn't overtaking at all. The only interesting factor was the different fuel levels each car was running.
F1 is having too many regulations for its own good, I feel like FIA needs to sit down and rethink all the rules... thats what should've been done for 2021.
regulation is needed to make f1 good. but it is also bad when someone find a hold. making all the car same is not the answer.safety is needed and if not f1 fan will say that f1 is a death fest and it will hurt f1.
making solution is hard .bring back the old days is not the answer.
@@WinWall3227 Thats not what I said, I didn't mention bringing back old times.
* rethink. Finding a solution is non-trival. Everyone needs to be happy. The teams, the manufacturers, the drivers, and the fans.
How about bringing in an attack mode activation like in Formula E. Or could be activated by going for a pitstop - might encourage more stops and use of softer compounds. Effectively limit control of peak engine mode to this attack mode.
Fascinating. I had no idea the 2010 GP sparked all of this. I think getting cute with the tire wear is not the solution. If you can carry enough fuel for the race, tires that last the race, why stop at all?
Matthew Atkinson there is something called a mandatory pitstop, that’s why.
30 second time penalty.
Bandit Himself but why have a pitstop at all if the technology doesnt require it? silly
Dalton Bedore so the tyres don’t last forever and drivers are then just trying to bring the car to the end instead of pushing
Bandit Himself pirelli said they can make a tire that would last all race and perform all race. i'm saying they should. and have another tire brand to compete agaist
Funny how it's always supposed to be the NEXT SIMPLE rule change that will certainly make everything more entertaining.
Seems to me that almost irrespective of the set of rules you choose to apply, there is invariably going to be one optimal strategy to win a race, and after a sometimes rather short, sometimes quite long struggle, all teams will converge on exactly that one optimal solution.
Look at this year. It has become apparent that you have to follow Mercedes' development path to get these tyres working, and that getting the tyres working is such a large advantage that it overwhelms all other factors. So we'll see teams adapting their car to be harder on the tyres, like Mercedes, and depending on their design team and resources, those updates will come to the cars over the rest of the season, meaning we'll likely see closer racing towards the end of the year.
Of course, Pirelli are supposedly changing up their tryes once again for 2020, which may yet again lead to a situation of one team hitting the sweet spot and many other struggling to learn from the best and apply these lessons to their own car. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Want a closer field? Keep the rules stable. Everyone will learn eventually. (See V8s, see V6 PUs) And the law of diminishing returns will lessen the gap. But who am I kidding? There's a whole organization in place to come up with different variations on a theme, silver bullet rule changes, complete overhauls. So we'll see teams getting it right running away with it again. Yay.
AH MAN, bringing back the memories! Had a wild couple of years, had the opportunity to attend a number of races, the last of which was 2013 British GP, was wild watching all those punctures. Very well done video! What I really wish we could bring back is the NA engines. Magic.
Some things are better when they happen naturally and the series doesn't try to force it.
the thing that would happen naturally is the cars having amazing downforce and any car within 1 second being completely unable to pass or stay within 1 second. We've seen it before. It's terribly boring
@@davidwillis7991 Hate to break it to you but 2010 was rank average in terms of race quality. Quite often racing isn't exactly predictable so acting like it is when trying to force fit something is insanity.
@@user-lc5zp6fk6b I agree, Monza 2020 was just Chaos I know people don't like Mercedes winning but still they deserve it especially with so much effort they and their drivers have put. But it's weird that the winner(dominant one) will get hated just because they are better.
When Vettel dominated people hated him like crazy and now the same people started loving him and call themselves as Vettel _"fans"_ . Hamilton is now hated for same reasons and same also happened with Schumacher.
@@user-lc5zp6fk6b well I don't care much about that because equipment is the most important part of motorsports and those think every driver should get the same equipment doesn't underestimate it properly.
Frankly tired of all the talk of saving tires. The best drivers in the world not going 100% each lap is just ridiculous
abso-fcking-lutley!!!!! Driving 8 seconds off the pace sucks. SEE INDYCAR racing for how it could be! Re-fueling absolutely needs to come back. These artificial scenarios have to go, they need to challenge drivers much more!
kwasg3 nah indycar
kwasg3 refueling is way to big of a risk to come back. Doesn’t matter if it helped the the racing, it way to unsafe.
exactly!
PeRX racing itself is unsafe.......🤦
Great Quality information. Keep it up!
Something I rarely see mentioned when this issue comes up - and with good reason, I realise, due to the obvious safety implications - is the role that the introduction of the pit lane speed limit seemed to have in creating the problem; I don't remember us scratching our heads about this back in the days when the time penalty for stopping for tyres wasn't so great as to outweigh the benefit of pushing every lap. Obviously we can't go back to unlimited pit lane speeds, but I'd be interested to see F1 do some research into pit lane design to see if there's any way time lost in the pits could be reduced. Even just push the limiter line in the pit entry at Silverstone back a bit for one year's race, see what happens to strategy. Drivers are less likely to conserve if opponents can push, pit and catch them again more easily, while it would give Pirelli more latitude to create an averagely robust tyre.
The current cars and tyres just aren't designed to push flat out for 15 laps. Cooling is always on a knifes edge. The battery packs run out of charge. The tyre temperatures go through the roof. That's why the concept of putting a fresh set on and rapidly coming back through the field doesn't happen as often as it did several years ago, even when pitlane speed limiters existed. Best solution to get more strategy variance with the current generation of cars/tyres would be to mandate that all three tyre compounds are used in the race, instead of just two.
As the 2019 F1 season shows, following and overtaking is easier now, so this season seems to become quite an interesting one. Can't wait for the next race!
Thanks for the interesting video. I won't say that I'm completely off the refueling wagon, but it did however make me sit closer to the back to jump off if they get it right. The biggest issue i had with the removal of refueling ban was the the safety of the people in the pit lane. Granted they are pretty much on top of that now, but there is still the odd chance that someone can get seriously injured due to a loose wheel. Now before anyone jumps at me that they had the same issue with cars going down the pits with the fuel hose still attached to the car, they could have easily avoided it by making the rules that you are only allowed to work on the car, that includes refueling, when the car is on the jacks, i.e. the fuel hose MUST be detached and the mechanic back past a certain point before the car is allowed to be dropped.
I really hope that the hard work of Brawn and co is going to pay off. I'd love to see more on track action and the removal of DRS. I understand why it is necessary at the moment and i am tolerating it, but it makes the racing too artificial imho
I think stopping refuelling was a mistake. Realistically, what was the fires per number of pit stops percentage? As you say, they could have built in more safety. All that driving off with it attached, the cars could have even had a sensor that kept the brakes locked on when the hose was attached. I liked the fuel element of the race strategy.
Chain Bear!! Let me say as a technically savvy F1 fan, I thoroughly enjoy your insight paired with your superb dynamic charts and graphs. Very nice work keep up the tech videos!
Great graphics! Subbed!
The race series with the best action don't have tires that need pitstops IMO, e.g BTCC, Formula E, MotoGP and British Superbikes. Sort out the drag problem and give them tires that allow drivers to attack throughout the race.
The drag problem comes from the downforce though. Getting rid of it would significantly slow down F1 cars overall. The best race car unfortunately doesn't seem to make the best racing.
@@timothyheimbach3260 Yes will do to some extent, but probably worth it overall. Maybe focus the development on diffuser and tire performance, while reducing the wings (especially rear). Keep the engine performance so increase the size of the braking zones.
@@timothyheimbach3260 Nah, just box up the wheels like they do in FE. Diehards won't like it but it improves the ability for tyres to be pushed abit more.
Only problem is that will need design changes and will add weight so we're back to square one it seems. 🤔
Some of the best on-track action still comes from shockingly fearless 12-year-olds in go-karts.
I agree. From the 50s to the early 80s we never had pit strategy and we had exciting racing. Even up to 93 tyre changes were generally not planned in the strict way they are now and they weren't used as an overtaking tool like they are these days. If drivers don't have the option of undercut or over cut then they'll be trying harder to pass on the circuit. Problem solved.
So now we have tyres so fragile drivers have to cruise for 90% of the race. Great.
Opposite, they are too durable, allowing consistent long stints by cruising. The earlier tyres were more fragile which encouraged them to push as it was the speed that gave them their position rather than long-stint race-avoiding strategies
I recall Vettel constantly talking about "managing the tires" during his post-win interviews in 2011-2013. I'd say they were still coasting back then, no matter how many stops they did; if they hadn't been, they would have had to pit even more.
@@GaryWagers plenty of radio talk videos from 2010 - 2013 of teams telling their drivers to slow and save fuel... that type of comment is against the nature of a racing driver.... I cannot imagine F1 as a driver today... no wonder the legends left.. (Alonso, Rosberg, Button, Webber and maybe Vettel next year)
@Roger Dodger im agree. Tyre strategy is one of the most exciting thing to watch. I watch motogp. In argentina rossi use hard tyre compare to marquez who use softer.
Marquez leading since the early lap. Rossi hunting from the back. Gradualy move upfront. In the end marquez lose the front end, crash. And rossi win the race. Its one of the most exciting race i watch.
Maybe theres some wrong naration. Im sharing the story from memory. And its not that great.
appreciate the well made video.
Great video and infographic
I understand the purpose of having so many tyres with some many different characteristics. But I tend to think that tyre managment is something that "distratcs" drivers too much. Yes, tyres should have different traits, but the way it has been I think it doesn't allow drivers to drive on the limit all the time.
Maybe if we had only 2 well defined of tyres, and the 1 mandatory pitstop and let the drivers go, could be a solution.
Also if we had the aerodynamics problems sorted out so cars could be closer to each other.
I liked the soft tyres of '11-'13
I was there live and I remember the suspense and thrills and seeing the rear deg infront our own eyes. McLaren were amazing that race and King Lewis, already an ace at the circuit, drove very well!
Omg chainbear on autosport this is sick!
I genuinely like pit stops as well as fuel and tire strategy. F1 would be lesser for not having them.
How are we doing on rule changes that fix the aero problem?
You like it but F1 is better without refueling and less pit stops.
I prefer less pitstops, I never really liked the strategy aspect of F1
So we had a race in 2010 under Bridgestone when drivers pitted by lap 6(!) and Pirelli gets the slack for their tires being too fragile...
Pirelli deserves tons of support and appreciation for their attempts to try to dial in their product to suit EXACTLY what makes the F1 show best. They haven't always nailed it, but they've always tried. Previous tire partners were clearly not so engaged with what made racing interesting.
It was interesting when we had competing tyre manufacturers all trying to out do each other and provide the best rubber possible.
@@colehartel7206 I'd rather see spec tyres cause it gives the lower teams a better chance
Good video. You should do one on the lack of competition in the field.
Can we go back to 2010?
Are you deluded? Did you even watch the video. It's the same shit as today. Like so many of the complaints sourced as the nadir of the sport, tires have always been problematic. If not, then it's aero, budget - the list is endless. Formula one has always been like this. It's part and parcel of the sport.
Yeah no
I think Williams would agree with me... Can we go back to the 1980s?
Seriously, if they mandated simpler wing elements, allowed the return of ground effect, kept the new large wheel format, and ditched DRS, we could see more on track action.
(Following a comment by BlackPrince, I want to clarify I am not against DRS. My suggestion to ditch DRS was made on the premise that it would not be "Needed". But I'd be just as happy to keep it as well).
Fuel strategy was a big part of keeping things varied, but it seems unlikely to return. Using tyres is a poor substitute because there is really always a common strategy for everyone. If we wanted to be fancy they could build in artificial fuel strategy using the MGU-K to provide full time additional power to artifically simulate less fuel. Pitstops could then involve simulated refueling. BUT, getting the calculations right on the fly, and having a reliable system to cut the engine on simulated empty tank, and reliably control the MGU-K would be insanely complicated. So maybe just embrace fuel stops again, but learn from the past and make them safer (with standardised rigs supplied randomly each race, to the teams from a stock (like tyres) to avoid the Benetton style of "not" cheating...
@@damionlee7658 So DRS is bad but ground effect is good why? DRS allows you to go faster on straights while ground effect allows you to go faster on corners. Why is one superior to other? Oh I know why, because of your nostalgia glasses.
Give all teams the same budget. Done.
Motogp doesn't need any pitstops, fuel stops, tyre changes or radios. Just a good rule system that allows rider skill to shine through.
But it helps being on bikes though. I think they need to reduce the size of F1 cars to ensure maximum overtaking.
To be fair, though, motogp bikes are way lighter and the races are only 25 to 30 laps
Bikes are bikes... Nobody likes bike races, because we love cars, and hate bikes.
And, skill of the driver shining through. Everybody has max skills, other than paid drivers. It is already an expectation to be a very good driver. That is why they are on the top of the leaderboards with F1, and not in F3000. So this argument of yours is just dumb af.
@@ShadowViewsOnly Why the hate to bikes?
@@ShadowViewsOnly Schumacher definitely hated bikes, that's exactly why he was racing Superbikes. Also, if nobody likes bike racing, why did Sepang lose its F1 races but kept its MotoGP races?
A video that has so much more perspective and understanding of the sport than the omnipresent comments whining vague things like “it was better before”. This is how you make F1 work. Not by dreaming of a nonexistent perfect era, but by working on the sport’s design year by year.
Great infographics!
The pit stops are boring now, they last just 2 seconds, at least with refuelling you never knew how long they'd be and the strategy would come in to play. I liked the constant hard charging from that era, now it's a parade around the track.
Yeah I liked that too. I remember the 2005 Italian GP, where eventually fate would take Raikkonens P1 with his 1 stop strat, tricking everyone he would do 2 stops, only to then his tires to get a puncture, and still finish 5th.
I wish refueling came back with 2/3 race tanks.
Wasn't the problem with the British GP incidents that the curb before the Hangar straight hadn't been seated properly, causing the corner of it to stick up out of the track and cutting tyres which went over it too quickly?
Great video!👏
I wasn't watching F1 yet at that time , but as I look back into history and races I think that 2011,2012 and 2013 were the best 3 years of F1 in recent decades.
(2014 and 2016 were also very thrilling but only because of that Nico Lewis rivalry)
07 and 08 were legendary.
Canada: sorry, but so sorry.
Imagine watching 24 ads on a 12 minute video.
You're a pretty good one, you know. I've seen a few of those F1 videos around here recently but you're something else. 👍
Wow, that 1980's nostalgia, when you watch a diashow in 2019 is incredible.
“We could make the tires last the entire seasons if we want”
-Pirelli 2011
“*SUPERHARD!!!!!!!”
-Pirelli 2018
“C- uhhh... 4?”
-Pirelli 2019
That McLaren Mercedes was beautiful
Amazing video!
Wow, for once I vividly remember what is now considered racing history. I’ve always been jealous of when people say they remember watching the ‘95 LeMans (not that this is as historic). I had a feeling at the time when the commentators were talking about the grip falling off a cliff this was gonna be the future.
you forgot to mention that in the 2013 british grand prix, all the tyre failures happened to teams/car that were running tyres IN THEIR OPPOSITE DESIGNED DIRECTION. meaning they were running the left tyres on the right side and vice versa. every car that DIDN'T do that, DID NOT SUFFER TYRE FAILURES.
Fia knows the danger of full non restricted cars, they make new rules each year to limit the performance and thus the velocity of the cars, if no, the constructors could make cars with 400kmh and 3 or more G per corner, insanely dangerous. (Maybe in Bahreïn and Abu Dhabi it could fit)
Put those cars on the Nordschleife and you'll have saved the sport.
If one were to install fairings around the wheels and enclose the cockpit on an F1 car, these figures might be achieved with taller gears on a standard (for F1) power train. The races could take place at Bonneville, just spray paint the track borders on the salt.
Nice work!
The all season tires idea is awesome in my head
enjoyable presentation and diction. well done..H6-81
Maybe they could try a 1 compound tyre that can be pushed to the limit all the time and then force teams to do 2 or 3 pitstops (depending on the track)
Alternatively have a couple of laps where the pits open 2 or 3 times a race...
Mark Bradford So, essentially they could just bring a harder mix of tires to each race. They currently choose 3 from a possible 7 compounds.
What are they doing in the pits if the tire is indestructible? What would be the point of the pit stop, just to drive through the pit lane?
@@C3lloman Without refueling there would be no point of having just "drive in to avoid penalty" stuff. Only mix of refueling and 7 tyre types could add spice to racing as some would try 8 flying laps with light car on hyperultrasofts while other would fill up for 1/2 race and try to have good average speed on medium tyres. When had just 1 soft and 1 hard choise for each team - it was pretty clear what strategy have to use to get some result.
Edit: But I know that safety is big stuff and this racing propably won't get back to it. And I'm fine with it as I can have Indy/Nascar and keep F1 as "best G-force" stuff on market.
@@C3lloman Make them use multiple compounds in a race, like they do now.
I work at the facility that makes the filler material for Pirelli tires, as well as Bridgestone, Toyo, Sumitomo, Cooper, and a few others, used to make it for Goodyear till they dropped us and began using an alternative, but we might start making it for them again soon, it’ll be nice as we will have a hand in making pretty much all the different tires for all the different racing organizations. If we could only get Hoosier
Actually, refueling does not allow "all out sprint" like mentioned, yes it means tire deg becomes a very minor factor (except when blistering or graining was happening) but refueling involves a lot more fuel saving in order to get positions in the pits: you save fuel behind the car you want to overtake and then you can do an overcut with a shorter refuel to get the position
Now we are here, in 2019 with like 4 to 5 overtakes in the rear half of the field and only 1 stop to change tires...
Ive always wondered if they should introduce something like:
the drivers start on a hard tyre that can last the entire race and be pushed on tho lacked grip compared to a softer tyre that was designed to be massively faster but fall away.
The idea is that teams can take the penelty of a pit stop but are rewarded with a tyre that is a magnitude faster so they can cover the pit time, time catching the drivers and enough extra performance and speed to overtake before they need to go back to the slower tyre or another set of faster tyres. You could also limit DRS useage to 10laps after a pit until the next stop is taken. Basically encourage drivers to pit rather than force them to
This is off topic but f1 2010 was my first f1 game so this makes me nostalgic
Reduce the wings (front and back) and make the diffuser more affective(aka bring back ground affects)
It would be cool to see formula 1 and Pirelli make race tires, 3 compounds per car (soft, medium, hard) that are long game tires they have to last 3 races, so your strategies include forward thought, and bottom 5 teams would get 2 sets of each, or some modifier along those lines. Would make the third race more exciting as the team's have dying compounds, but I understand the added risk of crashing and safety.
Back markers battling in the top 5 would be cool to watch.
They had the no tire change rule in 2005 season, it didn't produce anything good.
I think one thing that gets overlooked as well post-2013 is that the pit lane speed limit was lowered that year as well, after Webber's loose wheel struck a cameraman in the pitlane in Germany, which resulted in even more of a penalty for an additional pitstop.
That's true, if you could do 100 or 120km/h in the pit lane, it would be less time costing and teams would definitely take more different strategies.
Man I wish there would be tyres like the 2011-2013 era tyres which would force the teams to do at least 2 stops. The races those times were also good because of the different tyre strategies which is something what I miss the most from the F1 now
Canada 2010 was a great race indeed and about the only dry race of the 2010 season that wasn't incredibly dull or frustrating. 2011 and 2012 were exciting seasons because of the extreme tires. Overtaking suffered somewhat when the tires got less extreme in 2014 and 2015, but the third tire compound introduced in 2016 completely reversed the trend. Nowadays the tires are again too durable, which, in combination with the wider cars, creates very unimpressive racing. Perhaps the re-introduction of refueling will actually be a good thing in the current situation, as drivers will push harder and wear out their tires harder to make their strategy work.
Chain Bear - awesome and interesting as ever.
Need to get rid of the current medium option, just have hard and soft with the extra gap in between.
This is a good idea.
@@dinocadet77 this is not good idea
Maby when they go in for a pit they could charge the battery then they can use the ERS more often. Something to replace the no refueling dilema. Or a smaller battery so they have to charge it after a certain amount of time, Battery change, anything really....
The subtle things like the shifting shadow behind the tyre at 8:50 are what makes these vids so great
I still would like refueling to return
yes, bring it back. it would make to some pretty vaired strategies. light cars with low fuel chasing for the lead, while a conservative driver could get a great position without stoping.
Take me back to 2012 please
I remember that this race especially stood out for me as a negative race in that season😅
I see we're all back here for some reason
They should start giving a constructors pt to the fastest pit team of the weekend
They won´t because they don´t want to encourage even more dangerous pit stops. Nowaday, without refueling, there is a higher chance of mistakes made changing tyres. And giving a point may lead to more mistakes since teams would go even harder for that extra tenth. That´s why they abolished the idea immediately when it came up.
bowlchamps37 thats a good point. I didnt know the idea was already floated. Just wish they incorporated the crew more on weekends sans private garage work...
F1 needs to make many more rules and regulations. This will increase penalty stops and add to the race excitement. The big teams will hire teams of lawyers to interpret the rules and file appeals. This will create jobs and add to the general confusion. What could go wrong?
/s
My favorite track to race on in F1 2012
The new cars are supposed to make the following cars get 85+% of their aero which is a MASSIVE improvement from the 50-% they've been dealing with. It will be very interesting to see what the racing will be like with functioning aero for following cars AND DRS.
Since F1 is so predictable and boring, I’ve solved the problem by no longer thinking of each venue as a race. I now look at each as a high-speed but orderly parade of F1 automobiles taking place in various picturesque spots around the globe. Now I don’t grind my teeth when Mercedes always arrives at the head of the parade...
They said the same when Redbull dominated, and when Ferrari dominated before that.
Its not Mercedes fault they are dominant. Ferrari was the same before them. Its other teams job to catch up and compete.
@@butterbean8881 yep, give every team a $400m budget and let them catch up and compete
🤣
@@Shocker99 Yeh exept then there was usually still some action worth watching elsewhere in the grid and things weren't so predictable.
McLaren
Red bull
Ferrari
Mercedes
These were the good old.... Wait.. it was just 9 jears ago
Very informative! You made me wonder one idea: What if Pirelly makes tires with two layers of compound? Internal layer of hard rubber and external of soft rubber for the soft compound and internal soft and external layer of hard for the hard tires? Maybe it’s a stupid idea and impossible but if somebody starts with the soft rubber, when the tire degrades it won’t be dangerous because they’ll become hard and slower, so they will put anyway. Then, with a hard tire, at the end of the race it will become soft and will potentially allow drivers to push harder for the last laps, so it could benefit the show
I was at that grand prix. quite a sight!
2013 British GP ruinned the awesome tyres we had... I miss the period 2011 - 1st half of 2013, best F1 years for me...
Raises exactly the points I recently raised in your "positive feedback" video. For me, the issue is not that Pirelli need to make aggressive, unpredictable tyres, but that the amount of running and data teams can do on the race weekend compounds is excessive and needs to be cut down.
Let's use Canada this weekend as a case study:
Each driver has 13 sets of tyres across 3 different compounds selected in conjunction with their team before the race. They then have a certain number of sets allocated for each session and use them as they see fit. So in total, there are 260 sets of tyres available to be used across a weekend, and teams get 4 hours of practice to work out all of their optimum strategies, fuel loads etc.
This for me is the crux of the issue, because unless it rains at some point then the teams can prepare so precisely for the weekend that the outcome becomes somewhat prescribed because of the replicability of performance. So I would completely revamp the weekend to ensure teams get minimal running on their qualifying and race tyres to make them have to be a lot more reactive during the race.
I would achieve this as follows:
1. Teams do not get to pick their tyre allocation for the weekend. Instead, Pirelli bring a set number of sets for 4 compounds to the weekend. 3 to be available for use across qualifying and races, and 1 exclusively for practice.
2. Practice 1 would be shortened to an hour and teams would only be able to run the compound not being used in the qualifying and races. Thus, teams would be able to assess their own car's reliability but would have to build estimations and predictions for their qualifying and race performance based on the standard tyre. More unpredictability.
3. Practice 2 would be revamped. The FIA would set the teams a number of challenges such as fastest lap, fastest speed trap, fastest sector, most consistent driver over x number of laps etc. etc. The winners would be able to choose a package of tyres which would contain a certain number of sets, i.e.
Package 1 (6 sets) - 2 softs, 2 mediums and 2 hards.
Package 2 (5 sets) - 1 soft, 3 mediums and 1 hard.
etc.
The FIA could also introduce time specific challenges i.e. fastest lap in the next 5 minutes, and the winning drivers could pick their preferred packages. Each driver could only pick up to 2 packages no matter how many challenges they won. After P2, the remaining packages would be up for "draft" and each driver would be selected at random to select a package. This would continue until each driver had 3 packages.
This way, teams and drivers would have to try and earn their preferred tyre sets and this would lead to strategic conundrums. Does a driver pick a package full of softs to benefit them in qualifying at the expense of mediums for the race and vice-versa. It would also mean each driver would have to compromise on which tyres to use in certain situations making it more unpredictable, and perhaps creating a tyre advantage for a smaller team which could boost competitive racing.
P3 would be scrapped and turned into a reverse grid sprint race, half distance, half points.
Qualifying would become a 4 stage, head-to-head knockout, where each driver is drawn against another at random and has 2 runs in each stage to set their fastest lap, the fastest driver qualifies and their opponent is knocked out at that stage and given a grid slot based on the fastest laps of those knocked out. This would be a more unpredictable qualifying as you could have Hamilton v Bottas drawn in Q2, or Vettel v Verstappen, meaning big drivers in big teams could end up further down the field, and likewise a smaller team could have a driver make it all the way through to the final 4 by beating other midfield drivers.
The race would of course be the race, but it would be made much more unpredictable and reactive as the teams would have done minimal running on those compounds and would have to react to their varying degrees of degradation. That lack of prior knowledge would put the onus back on the driver to manage their tyre life against speed without prior knowledge of an ideal stint length.
For me, taking the control of the tyres away from the team and treating them like gold dust, protecting them from over-usage and analysis is a key way to make grand prix weekends more exciting.
8:23
Number of overtakes per GP 2010: During the dry 21.33 - For all races 28.79 😁
2011: 59.06/60.63
2016: 52.17/49.05
Not sure why the latter years aren't included *shrugs*
Editors choice I guess, since the main focus is 2010, but I got hella curious 😁
This is why races with multiple strategies are better rather than dull 1 stops which we get too often nowadays. Obviously the cars being closer helped a lot too
Even better in the days when you couldn't be sure if the other driver was even planning to pit-stop at all. "Do I try to keep up now, or just assume he has to stop for fuel before the end?"
Interesting video. I think atm if anything pirelli is a bit too much on the conservative side, I think more 2 stop races or even the occasional 3 stop wouldn't hurt!
And even if all problems were solved I hope pitstops remain a part of f1, they are part of the challenge
Will pit stops require strategy, strategy is unknown for Ferrari, Ferrari are kinda the only ones who can challenge Mercedes. But anyways true dat
Multiple-stop races are more interesting indeed. However, I don't necessarily think tire degradation is too low. When pushed, the tires still degrade rapidly. The real problem is that the drivers have become too good at nursing these tires, which is a faster way to complete the race distance than going flat-out, as this uses up too much tire life too early, as in 2011-2013. The thinner tires stipulated by the 2019 rules seem to have reduced tire saving (possibly because the maximum tire life is shorter), which is a good thing.
I think they're TRYING to do that, but the teams just keep telling their drivers to drive more conservative and going with 1 stop strategies.
Tbh I think the best solution would be to make all tires super durable again and just force the teams by regulation to make 2 stops if they made it into q3
@@musculusiv4172 That would really produce boring races. If the tires don't wear out it makes no sense to replace them twice. However, with the current tires, it might make sense to force the drivers to run all compounds in the race, so they can push harder and there is more strategic variation. Having said that, with two mandatory pit-stops they can just as well re-introduce in-race refueling.
"We can happily make a tyre that would last a whlle race and not degrade"
I can smell something, and it's definitely not burning rubber
Well they could, but they'd be rock hard
@@aidinmcinerney6512 Softer doesn't necessarily mean more deg.
I often wonder what a simplified aero version of the current cars would be. Maybe Pirelli could step back up by using tires to compensate the lost grip?
The thing that is not quite there is the sort of tyre management possible in the 1980s, when it seemed degraded tyres could be bought back to life to a degree with a series of steady laps or conserved (Prost was usually best at this) so that you could charge later and pass the bloke in front who'd been lapping faster to that point but had also been much harder on his tyres. This is probably because of improved telemetry which takes the driver's skill or guesswork out of the equation. Whatever, the cliff-edge that appeared in the early Pirelli days, seemed to have been far more gentle and flexible in the 80s according to driving style. Perhaps Button was the latter-day Prost to a degree, but the effect of rule changes never seemed consistant enough for long enough to properly evaluate. My own view remains the route to more exciting races lies with track design and a reduction in the overall dimensions of the cars.
Que the South Park song, "Blame Canada"
This is one of the examples that shows that strategy is the thing that can make races interesting aswell. This one is for all the (ahem new ) people that watch F1 and are like; Ah F1 iS sO BorInG NoW, look at the strats and you'll not be bored
Edit: Hope ya'll enjoy the race weekend!!!
LilRickie ..if the strategy was this interesting today, we wouldn't be talking. but there's a couple options each race, which of course are interesting in their own way, but the number of layers of strategy is a order of magnitude lower because of the variety (or lack of) in tyres (performance, degradation and number of types) impacting potential pit stop strategies.
strategy is and always will be less interesting than driver skill, and when strategy suffocates driver skill in my opinion its a complete waste of time and only a negative on the sport no matter how interesting it seems all on its own
@@cattycats4 Driver skill is not only speed.It is also consistency plus tyre and fuel saving being able to be fast while keeping your tyres alive is very difficult.The problem with f1 is not the tyres it is that teams are too far from each other in terms of performance.In 2018 where teams where quite close especially in the race we had amazing races.
Exactly
@@manosfrantzas5860 2018 was not close, it wouldve been close between only two teams had Bottas not abandoned his own races to make sure Lewis got points that he didnt deserve. Redbull distant third constructor but shining on some circuits, but thats not a close world championship, the last very close championship in my opinion was 2010 with only 16 points separating the top 4 drivers, since then it has been close only between two drivers like in 2012 and sadly after that only close between two drivers in the same team like in 2016
I really like the idea that, if Pirelli brings 3 dry compounds to every race...require every team to run all 3 compounds in a dry race! Mandatory 2 pit stops, lots of strategy variety; think it would be an easy and interesting way to bring excitement to the races without a lot of change in the logistics and regulations. Could be implemented mid-season, even, hypothetically.
Won't change much. The top teams will pull a pitstop over the midfield and control the pace from their. Here's the thing many fans fail to understand. The engineers in f1 are brilliant. They get off on solving problems. Like most rule changes, it'll only work for a short time until they learn to defeat the problem and return the status quo.
The new rules for 2019 were suppose to slow the cars down. In only a few months, they not only regained lost downforce but found even greater performance. Ban front wings, they increase the complexity of the bargeboards. Ban FRIC suspension, they invest in hydraulic third element, essentially recovering the lost performance. Same for traction control, mass dampers, fuel flow limit etc.
In 09, the rules were designed to reduce the numerous aero bits in hopes of improving overtaking. Where have we hurt that before? lol. What happened? They discovered double diffusors and outwashing. Then Newey began adding rake. It's a non stop cat and mouse between the rule makers and endless pursuit of performance and speed. And I for one love it! It's the essence of formula one, the essence of life itself.
I reckon the tyre compound strategy is even more of a band-aid solution than DRS. Although interesting the tyre strategy nowadays is the only way to make a race interesting not actual on track head to head battles