The other reason to shoot over is how log curves are encoded with 10bit values. If you ever see what the curve looks like it’s flattens out as you get to the bottom. There are very few 10bit samples used for the stops at the very bottom of the curve. This is why even if a sensor had zero noise which is physically impossible you would still have banding and color loss if you lift up those stops too much. Ironically the noise actually helps hide those other imperfections down there. By shooting over you provide more coded samples in the shadows which means much better detail and color along with much less noise. There has always been this misconception that log was meant to be this one size fits all thing and should always be shot the same but that’s not true. Base exposure just means it’s what the designer of the log format felt was a good balance between shadow and highlight stops. Log formats tend to have a ton of highlight stops for two reasons. 1. It was traditionally easier to market better dynamic range by showing less clipping in the highlights. Standard profile video clipped very early and log having usually 6 stops vs 3 stops of highlights visually made a huge impact. 2. It’s always better to have more at the top and go down due to how digital sensors work and the signal to noise ratio and code values on a lot curve. Starting with a higher amount of highlight stops means we have more flexibility to shoot over to get the desired look we want. Doing the opposite would mean if we did want more highlight detail we would have to lift everything which would introduce worse results. Sony has Cine EI for a reason. BMD Pocket cameras shift how the stops are mapped based on ISO for a reason. It’s a completely normal and valid way to shoot. Others for years have called this ETTR which is the same concept. The problem with ETTR is there is no standard or consistency. One ends up with footage all over the place and it’s much more difficult to grade later to correct everything manually. It also creates very inconsistent look across shots where a high contrast scene will have a lot more noise than a low contrast scene will. It’s just too random. Defining the amount to shoot over is consistent. If values may clip the lighting or shading should be adjusted to lower that contrast of the environment. I’m also not as freaked out about clipping highlights as I used to be. It happens. Trust me the viewers are much less concerned about that then they are video that’s too dark or has too much noise. Clipping isn’t the fault of the camera. Clipping is the fault of not balancing the lighting of the scene or forcing the environment to be very high contrast for no reason. Like insisting on shooting an interview subject sitting in front of a window. Again no viewer cares about what’s going on outside the window. If they are then the entire point of the piece and interest in the subject has been lost. At that point clipped highlights are the least of the concerns. Even if one lights the subject really well to match the window it’s not a good composition and creates too much distraction for the viewer.
This was an awesome comment ! Holy cow dude, you just basically gave me a book haha! These are all really good and interesting points! Really appreciate you taking the time to comment man!
Brother it’s low key strange that you made this video because I’ve been on the hunt for this EXACT topic. I’ve never used a LUT in my monitor before because I wasn’t sure how to set it up, but now I do! Thanks so much.
Carsten back at it again with another banger. Honestly the +1.5/2 stops makes sense to me from a technical standpoint. Thus far I've mostly kept to using false color or just eye-ing it, but what you suggested with the lut definitely makes me want to try this method.
Thank for explaining your process. I like how you described Cine EI in Sony FX3 and FX6 works using the lut analogy. I think it's a better way to explain to folks what Cine EI is. Seems to confuse everyone. Relating it to a lut might make it easier for people to understand. Thank you again!
@@12yfilms glad you liked it man! Yeah cine ei honestly confused me for a while lol. But knowing what it is and how you can use it makes it such a helpful feature! Appreciate you watching!
Great video! Id' say it depends on the camera. Using a C70 with DGO, it's pointless to expose to the right. On my R5 on the other hand I always do that. Just keep in mind that over-exposing to the right (without clipping of course) will give the AF system a hard time.
Thanks man! Honestly I’m not too familiar with the c70. I’m interested as to why it would not help? (I’ve never shot on it before! ). And yeah auto focus definitely has some trouble depending how over you expose but honestly on the fx3 I’ve had very little trouble with it luckily. Really appreciate you watching man!
@@carstenschlag DGO, the dual gain output, means that the camera exposes at the same time for shadows and for highlights. It's not technically correct to say this, but it's like using two ISOs at the same time (not mistaking this for dual ISO, which is different). So exposing to the right means that you don't take advantage of the otherwise good and noiseless details in the shadows. Let's further discuss the autofocus issues. On my R5 I can record prores raw externally, and with the raw output you can overexpose by a lot, maybe 3-4 stops, without clipping the highlights. A simple PQ waveform on the Atomos Ninja can confirm that. But the AF system, which is otherwise a great one on the R5, will seek focus like crazy. So going all the way to the right in order to bring the highlights down in post and get lower noise is not always best if you need great AF.
@@carstenschlagI usually go just 2 stops over whenever shooting with the R5. But for testing purposes it's amazing to see just how much detail in the highlights can prores raw record.
Great tip! Helps me a lot especially after switching from bmpcc6k to BMCC 6k which one is noisier. I noticed that meters works weird especially highlights on BMCC 6k compared to bmpcc6k.
The same applies in bright scenes effectively raising the EI to 2000 in a bright day while raise the clip point in the highlights as well, but because there’s no free lunch. You will loose some of the Detail in the shadows depending on how deep the shadows are.
This is a great point Neal! Honestly haven’t tried this on my fx3 but I do it alot with Arris and Reds. Will have to test it out! Appreciate you brotha!
Does ETTR work well when you have to bump your ISO over the 1st or 2st base ISO of your camera? For example - my 2nd base ISO is 4000. Is it worth to bump it to 12800 to get that extra 1.5-2stops of light? Or this method works well when you overexposing the image with 1) Wider aperture 2) More light
It would still work to an extent but pushing your iso 1.5 stops above your native iso would increase noise by a lot. So I’d say probably don’t do that. Lower aperture and more light will be your key here !! Appreciate you watching Aton!
Personally I use the Blackmagic 6k pocket camera but when am editing I find it hard to balance the exposure despite of the fact that while shooting I use the false color feature. I am going to try use this method of exposing with a +1 stop, Thank you for sharing this.
Yeah haha prolly should. I really only use one for green screen stuff. False color is so good at this point its allowed me to put off getting one. but prob not bad to own one! appreciate you Emmanuel!
@carstenschlag definitely that's a great point, I use false color alot as well. I just like the assurance of having a meter when I want to be more precise. Plus it helps me look like I actually know what I am doing, When in reality I'm just throwing darts at a wall and hope one sticks 🤣🤣
I personally use waveform monitor, because it’s easier to see if something is fully clipped but zebras also work! It’s honestly personal preference. Appreciate you watching Luke!
Zebras are great for skin tones as you can set the best IRE for skin. In this case you let highlights blow out in high contrast. You sometimes need to expose what you want to have exposed correctly
Cine EI is so clutch once you figure it out! Haha took me a few months of having the fx3 to do so. So hopefully this vid will help you to skip over that. Appreciate you benji!
This came to me seeing that we have the same Senheisser mic, but it would be cool if you did a tutorial about audio post-processing (voiceovers, interviews, etc.)
Yo David! Thanks for watching man! Honestly idk if I’m the guy you want teaching audio haha I know like nothing. What kind of stuff would you wanna know? Appreciate you!
Yup! Doesn’t matter how much nd is in front of the lens. You just want the sensor to be reading 1.5-2.0 stops over. So If you have nd on you just need more light to do that. Appreciate you watching !
Yeah Id say to use your native ISO, You don't have to be but it will give you a cleaner image. What camera are you using? And yeah you want your overall image to be about 2 stops over. that's what the 2 stop drop lut will help with. you then can set your lights to whatever looks good to your eye while your actual image is being recorded 2 stops over. lol hopefully that makes sense? Im horrible at explaining techy things. Really appreciate you watching man !!
It’s actually a video i really want to make! I just really want to make sure I put out a really quality tutorial that is different than the stuff that’s already out there. So once I figure that out, I’ll be making one. Really appreciate you watching!!
Totally get your point! that would be true if you clip. But as long as you ride the line, you should be totally fine and be able to bring all that detail back. I use my waveforms and then go literally as close as I can to clipping without clipping and as long as you monitor that throughout the day you won’t lose any details when you pull it back down! Appreciate you watching Vincent!
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bro is single handedly carrying my youtube recomendations rn
Haha thanks brotha!! Appreciate you big time
"Quick and dirty two-stop drop"
Man's giving education AND bars 🔥🔥🔥
Haha I try! Appreciate you big dawg!
You explained cine EI in the best way possible better than any video based on the that topic thank you for that 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Thanks brotha! Glad it was helpful, appreciate you!!
The other reason to shoot over is how log curves are encoded with 10bit values. If you ever see what the curve looks like it’s flattens out as you get to the bottom. There are very few 10bit samples used for the stops at the very bottom of the curve. This is why even if a sensor had zero noise which is physically impossible you would still have banding and color loss if you lift up those stops too much. Ironically the noise actually helps hide those other imperfections down there.
By shooting over you provide more coded samples in the shadows which means much better detail and color along with much less noise.
There has always been this misconception that log was meant to be this one size fits all thing and should always be shot the same but that’s not true. Base exposure just means it’s what the designer of the log format felt was a good balance between shadow and highlight stops. Log formats tend to have a ton of highlight stops for two reasons.
1. It was traditionally easier to market better dynamic range by showing less clipping in the highlights. Standard profile video clipped very early and log having usually 6 stops vs 3 stops of highlights visually made a huge impact.
2. It’s always better to have more at the top and go down due to how digital sensors work and the signal to noise ratio and code values on a lot curve. Starting with a higher amount of highlight stops means we have more flexibility to shoot over to get the desired look we want. Doing the opposite would mean if we did want more highlight detail we would have to lift everything which would introduce worse results.
Sony has Cine EI for a reason. BMD Pocket cameras shift how the stops are mapped based on ISO for a reason. It’s a completely normal and valid way to shoot. Others for years have called this ETTR which is the same concept. The problem with ETTR is there is no standard or consistency. One ends up with footage all over the place and it’s much more difficult to grade later to correct everything manually. It also creates very inconsistent look across shots where a high contrast scene will have a lot more noise than a low contrast scene will. It’s just too random. Defining the amount to shoot over is consistent. If values may clip the lighting or shading should be adjusted to lower that contrast of the environment. I’m also not as freaked out about clipping highlights as I used to be. It happens. Trust me the viewers are much less concerned about that then they are video that’s too dark or has too much noise. Clipping isn’t the fault of the camera. Clipping is the fault of not balancing the lighting of the scene or forcing the environment to be very high contrast for no reason. Like insisting on shooting an interview subject sitting in front of a window. Again no viewer cares about what’s going on outside the window. If they are then the entire point of the piece and interest in the subject has been lost. At that point clipped highlights are the least of the concerns. Even if one lights the subject really well to match the window it’s not a good composition and creates too much distraction for the viewer.
This was an awesome comment ! Holy cow dude, you just basically gave me a book haha! These are all really good and interesting points! Really appreciate you taking the time to comment man!
Brother it’s low key strange that you made this video because I’ve been on the hunt for this EXACT topic. I’ve never used a LUT in my monitor before because I wasn’t sure how to set it up, but now I do! Thanks so much.
Haha woah that is crazy. Hopefully the video helped! Appreciate you watching brotha !
Thank you so much for explaining that I just started diving into Davinci and couldn’t find anything that explained and showed it so clearly
So glad it was helpful man! I remember being in that same boat. Appreciate you !!
Keep it up Carsten, loving your stuff, simple and to the point
Thank you so much! Genuinely appreciate you!
Carsten back at it again with another banger. Honestly the +1.5/2 stops makes sense to me from a technical standpoint. Thus far I've mostly kept to using false color or just eye-ing it, but what you suggested with the lut definitely makes me want to try this method.
I literally got on youtube to look for this and it was already on my recommendations. My CIA agent working harder than usual.
Haha I hope your CIA agent keeps sending you to the channel! Appreciate you !
I’m gonna be a regular watcher man, I appreciate YOU.
Hell yeah man! Pumped you like it! I appreciate YOU big time!
Thank for explaining your process. I like how you described Cine EI in Sony FX3 and FX6 works using the lut analogy. I think it's a better way to explain to folks what Cine EI is. Seems to confuse everyone. Relating it to a lut might make it easier for people to understand. Thank you again!
@@12yfilms glad you liked it man! Yeah cine ei honestly confused me for a while lol. But knowing what it is and how you can use it makes it such a helpful feature! Appreciate you watching!
you shots are amazing, on your fx3 do you set your picture profile detail to -7 too?
Great video!
Id' say it depends on the camera. Using a C70 with DGO, it's pointless to expose to the right. On my R5 on the other hand I always do that. Just keep in mind that over-exposing to the right (without clipping of course) will give the AF system a hard time.
Thanks man! Honestly I’m not too familiar with the c70. I’m interested as to why it would not help? (I’ve never shot on it before! ). And yeah auto focus definitely has some trouble depending how over you expose but honestly on the fx3 I’ve had very little trouble with it luckily. Really appreciate you watching man!
@@carstenschlag DGO, the dual gain output, means that the camera exposes at the same time for shadows and for highlights. It's not technically correct to say this, but it's like using two ISOs at the same time (not mistaking this for dual ISO, which is different). So exposing to the right means that you don't take advantage of the otherwise good and noiseless details in the shadows.
Let's further discuss the autofocus issues. On my R5 I can record prores raw externally, and with the raw output you can overexpose by a lot, maybe 3-4 stops, without clipping the highlights. A simple PQ waveform on the Atomos Ninja can confirm that. But the AF system, which is otherwise a great one on the R5, will seek focus like crazy. So going all the way to the right in order to bring the highlights down in post and get lower noise is not always best if you need great AF.
Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks! And yeah I could see that happening at 3-4 stops over. Have you tried just going 1-2 over ?
@@carstenschlagI usually go just 2 stops over whenever shooting with the R5. But for testing purposes it's amazing to see just how much detail in the highlights can prores raw record.
Was dead serious JUST searching for a vid on this, good stuff!
Haha what a coincidence! Glad it was helpful! Appreciate you !!
Great tip! Helps me a lot especially after switching from bmpcc6k to BMCC 6k which one is noisier. I noticed that meters works weird especially highlights on BMCC 6k compared to bmpcc6k.
I’m glad it helped! That’s interesting there is that much of a difference in noise level between the two. Appreciate you watching man !
Pretty informative video mate. If possible please make a video on your own color grading process. That will definitely help us a lot. 🍻
Thanks brotha! I’ll add it to the list of videos. Appreciate you!
The same applies in bright scenes effectively raising the EI to 2000 in a bright day while raise the clip point in the highlights as well, but because there’s no free lunch. You will loose some of the Detail in the shadows depending on how deep the shadows are.
This is a great point Neal! Honestly haven’t tried this on my fx3 but I do it alot with Arris and Reds. Will have to test it out! Appreciate you brotha!
Does ETTR work well when you have to bump your ISO over the 1st or 2st base ISO of your camera? For example - my 2nd base ISO is 4000. Is it worth to bump it to 12800 to get that extra 1.5-2stops of light? Or this method works well when you overexposing the image with 1) Wider aperture 2) More light
It would still work to an extent but pushing your iso 1.5 stops above your native iso would increase noise by a lot. So I’d say probably don’t do that. Lower aperture and more light will be your key here !! Appreciate you watching Aton!
Do you do the cine ei 2 stops understander exposure with the rec 709 built in monitor lut aplied or just log with no lut/gammut asist on?
Definitely make sure you have a normal rec.709 conversion lut on there! That way you can monitor it properly. Appreciate you watching man!
Personally I use the Blackmagic 6k pocket camera but when am editing I find it hard to balance the exposure despite of the fact that while shooting I use the false color feature. I am going to try use this method of exposing with a +1 stop, Thank you for sharing this.
It should work well on the black magic! I used to have the 6k before I got my fx3 and it definitely helped. Appreciate you watching!
Thanks for this dude. Really helpful info as always.
Glad it helps man ! Appreciate you as always!!
Bro I'd definitely recommend getting a light meter. Game changer when u can be very intentional with your exposures and ratios
Yeah haha prolly should. I really only use one for green screen stuff. False color is so good at this point its allowed me to put off getting one. but prob not bad to own one! appreciate you Emmanuel!
@carstenschlag definitely that's a great point, I use false color alot as well. I just like the assurance of having a meter when I want to be more precise. Plus it helps me look like I actually know what I am doing, When in reality I'm just throwing darts at a wall and hope one sticks 🤣🤣
Haha totally feel that. I always love looking like I know what I’m doing
You always drop the perfect video. What are you thoughts on using Zebras for peaking?
I personally use waveform monitor, because it’s easier to see if something is fully clipped but zebras also work! It’s honestly personal preference. Appreciate you watching Luke!
Zebras are great for skin tones as you can set the best IRE for skin. In this case you let highlights blow out in high contrast. You sometimes need to expose what you want to have exposed correctly
Exactly 💯 what I do, and in conjunction with exposing to the right ✅️ same on canon R3
Yeah man, I love this technique! It just gives the overall image a cleaner more dense feel. Appreciate you watching!
Ooooh this makes a lot of sense haha I’m testing the FX30 and I was wondering how Cine EI worked lol
Cine EI is so clutch once you figure it out! Haha took me a few months of having the fx3 to do so. So hopefully this vid will help you to skip over that. Appreciate you benji!
Your white Ciele hat goes hard dude.
Thanks Benjamin! Haha it’s my favorite hat I own. Appreciate you dude
This came to me seeing that we have the same Senheisser mic, but it would be cool if you did a tutorial about audio post-processing (voiceovers, interviews, etc.)
Yo David! Thanks for watching man! Honestly idk if I’m the guy you want teaching audio haha I know like nothing. What kind of stuff would you wanna know? Appreciate you!
Does 1.5 still apply to say with a vnd applied?
Yup! Doesn’t matter how much nd is in front of the lens. You just want the sensor to be reading 1.5-2.0 stops over. So If you have nd on you just need more light to do that. Appreciate you watching !
Thanks for the knowledge man👍🏾
Thanks for watching brotha ! Appreciate you!
What do you edit on
Davinci resolve! Best editing software there is. Appreciate you watching!
Can you still trust your zebras and histogram doing this?
Do we have to be on native ISO (400) when applying this technique? And when you say 2+ stops over, did you mean the set lighting is 2 stop over? Tnx
Yeah Id say to use your native ISO, You don't have to be but it will give you a cleaner image. What camera are you using? And yeah you want your overall image to be about 2 stops over. that's what the 2 stop drop lut will help with. you then can set your lights to whatever looks good to your eye while your actual image is being recorded 2 stops over. lol hopefully that makes sense? Im horrible at explaining techy things. Really appreciate you watching man !!
@@carstenschlag im using the blackmagic FF
Yup I’d say shoot at native 400 or 3200. That does have duel base iso right?
@@carstenschlag yes youre right 400 and 3200
@@carstenschlagThat was a great explanation 😁
Very good tip! Thanks man
I’m pumped you liked it man! Really appreciate you watching!
Really great tip! Thank you
Really glad you enjoyed it! Appreciate you!
Thank you ❤
Thank YOU! Appreciate you ❤️
Carsten one video on iphone film making and grading pls
It’s actually a video i really want to make! I just really want to make sure I put out a really quality tutorial that is different than the stuff that’s already out there. So once I figure that out, I’ll be making one. Really appreciate you watching!!
But then you lose 1,5-2 Stops in the Highlight so everything is clipping faster. For example the details in windows in a day interior.
Totally get your point! that would be true if you clip. But as long as you ride the line, you should be totally fine and be able to bring all that detail back. I use my waveforms and then go literally as close as I can to clipping without clipping and as long as you monitor that throughout the day you won’t lose any details when you pull it back down! Appreciate you watching Vincent!
Clutchhh
Thanks big dawg ! Appreciate you!
i always shoot as bright as i can without clipping
It’s a smart move in my opinion!! Appreciate you!