As far as I'm concerned, unless a therapist SPECIALIZES in narcissistic abuse, I will not even bother. Too many uneducated therapists out there causing harm...
@@rwdchannel2901 for the past 5 years I have been learning about narcissism from Dr. Ramani, Dr. Les Carter, Kris Godinez; and more recently, Paula of Narc Con and Andrew of Narc Daily...very grateful to them for bringing their knowledge and expertise to us through you tube. They have helped millions of people like us, struggling to understand what it is we have been through, or are going through...and creating communities like this one; where those who have experienced this type of abuse- help and support each other. It's not just a clinical, physiological condition. There is spiritual warfare involved. And this is why we should also draw closer to God who is love and peace. Praying and keeping Him close in conversation, helped keep my sanity amidst all the chaos this narc has brought upon us. And many times too, provisions by divine intervention ( I kid you not)- whenever in dire need. As you know, narcs bring about all forms of abuse- physical, verbal emotional, economic/financial abuse..as they thrive in chaos, drama, pain, conflict and lies. All very good reasons to stay away from the narc. If you have to love them, love them from afar. And you are very right, choose your therapists wisely. =)
I'm a licensed therapist and agree with you completely. Most of us therapist have to be impacted by something in order to make us going from good to great and/or experts on various topics such as autism, geriatric care, and narcissism for example.
Therapists may just tell you to talk to the narcissist. Or to explain to the narcissist what you’re not happy with. They may even blame you and gaslight you. And sadly, some therapists out there are narcissists. And their clients are their victims.
You are so right. My gut feeling about 6 months into our relationship was that I should just pack my bags and totally disappear. I followed the advice of a counselor and tried to "work through" the situation. Big mistake.
@@twovirginiacats3753 I understand, but also keep in mind that it's not always the therapists fault. I've coached psychologists and psychotherapists who didn't know anything about narcissism and wanted to learn more. One therapist told me that they don't even teach about it in the universities. So sometimes, even therapists find themselves in narcissistic relationships. It can be quite a frightening experience, when you seek out a therapist for support, and they're giving you advice that may cause you even more harm. Which is why I would advise seeking out a therapist who is educated on narcissism. So that they can lead you on the correct path.
My mom counseled children in foster care. She refused to attend counseling with me because she knew she’d be found out. Instead, she said “You don’t need a therapist. I am a therapist and I say” blah blah blah. I’ve read so many comments from those married to a narcissist that I as a therapist or a psychiatrist. A relative’s psychiatrist killed his wife and kept going to work like it was nothing while her body decomposed in the bathroom. He was later deemed a psychopath by court evaluators. I almost dated a psychiatrist turned stalker in my twenties. It was a very scary time. We went out once but I didn’t feel comfortable ever going out with him again. I’m probably lucky he took me back home from that one date. There are so many in the field that could be diagnosed. Ive always joked with friends and their college-aged kids that if they majored in psychology or the like, they were surrounded by crazy people or it’s them. It’s not so funny now.
Same happened to me. Sister in-law , a marriage and family councilor , who is npd and psychotic( diagnosed by her psychiatrist son) was a flying monkey also. Helped turn my adult sons against me. Wife is covert n
The way I found out about narcissism was through a counsellor at a women's shelter. I told her some of the experiences I had endured. She told me the titles of books I needed to buy (One of them being Malignant Self Love) and through reading I learned that it went way back to my family of origin and my narc Mom. I am very grateful to that counsellor at the women's shelter for opening my eyes and putting me on the right path.
@@Cocobean134 It also stupid that they don't understand. Everyone knows that there are abused children...but no one seems to believe the abused children when they talk about their parents. Therapists buy into the Sacred Parents ideal just as much as the rest of the world.
Oh this is a big topic! Many therapists from my experience unfortunately do not have an experiential knowledge of narcissism. And boy will they invalidate your experience and it hurts even more.
@@erinmorrow5001 so it could be the extension of the abuse by therapist in disguise of healing. The recognition about abuse is essential but it is like confronting all kinds of myths and illusions that human society has created for so long. They feel so uncomfortable about being evil in humanity like the society tries to hide the scapegoats.
I’ve had a therapist who sided with my narcissist parent and told me that person is not a narcissist and it was my fault for not setting stronger boundaries. I felt very dismissed and invalidated as if it was my fault for my own abuse.
Therapists who are narcissists themselves will stick up for other narcissists, I had the same thing happen to me. It’s a horrible experience and I’m sorry you had to go through that, the therapist I dealt with completely blamed me for the narcissist’s behavior, saying his behavior was caused by my talking too much and making facial expressions that annoyed him so I should “watch my face”. It was ludicrous.
Never go to a counsellor that is paid for by your abusive spouse's business. BIG conflict of interest. They side with the employee every time because they want their contract renewed. There were decades of unresolved issues in our marriage. My husband would not talk about his abusive behaviours I experienced so the therapist tried to get me to promise to never talk about anything that happened in the past. Then what is therapy for? As soon as my husband did something abusive I would call him out on it and he's say that since it had already occurred, it was in the past and I wasn't allowed to bring it up! Crazy making!! (I am now divorced).
last 8 months i saw 5 therapists, i all make them look stupid. they knew nothing while in have nearly a 1000 videos about it. the only thing i'm struggling with still today is loneliness. i have no support system, friends and no family who undertands anything. and i made a promise to myself that i will NOT let anyone gaslitgh me about narcissitic abuse or narcissits. 46 years from my mother, 15 with my covert wife and with a nearly a 1000 videos about it in my head in the last 8 months...i dare anyone to gaslight me about it....NO ONE with keep me quiet about it! I will not get denied what the hell i went through my entire life!
Wouldn't it be great if there was a Narc-proof dating site where we can find new friends and partners? The post-Narc abuse is indeed a lonely place... You've lost many of the people you know either because of the break up or the smear campaign. You've eliminated a few more as you learn to set boundaries and protect yourself. You've distanced yourself from your Narc family members (for most of us). You're scared to death of missing the signs again and sign up for another round of abuse. Self-isolation seems the only way to protect yourself. This world has suddenly become a scary, lonely place.
Hang in there, you're doing great! I'm older without family or friends and it's painful . But the clarity and authentic self emerging- the real me, is one beautiful creature!
I have wished there were support groups for narcissistic abuse survivors. I get a lot out of reading comments, but a real support group would be a game changer for me. Even if it was a group that met on Zoom. I would participate.
My therapist called him 'predator'. She avoided 'narcissism'. Thank you Dr Ramani. You are the only person who does not gaslight us and acknowledges that it WAS abuse, we didn't imagine it.
Therapy may or maynot work. Depends on how much we suffered. I prefer self care and self healing instead of involving a therapist who may escalate the problem
Sushma, this is what I did for the 4 yrs. I got over him and the emotional part in 2-1/2 yrs, but the ptsd hardly at all. It is like a ball and chain attached to me. And this is with antidepressants. 🪷🙏🏼🪷
Me too. Slowly but im healing after a year of watching videos and starting to recognize more and more narcs in my life and becoming aware of my vulnerabilities and childhood trauma. If only i had more free time i think it could be even more profound.
In the late 80's I was told by my lawyer not to bring up the abuse because it would delay the divorce. It wasn't until the late 80's spousal abuse was legally recognized.
I am currently being told that now. About to go to divorce court. He said there's no point because a regular person can also do what she's doing. We're just gonna bring up what she's doing but not why she's doing it or her condition. Kind of make sense but I don't know....
Iam age 68 & in my youth & middle-age years, I never heard the word narcissist & here it is in my elder years I hear & learn about it now & "yeah, now you tell me"!! "Great"!!!
When you realize the behavior of the narcissist in your life ticks the boxes, I think it's ok to claim that person has those traits and stand by your word without softening your words. I was also told by a therapist that it takes "two to tango" when I described my MIL, and I soon realized she had NO IDEA what narcissism really is. I've gone to a handful of therapists over the years, and I've concluded if they haven't personally dealt with a narcissistic person in their life they do not have the context to help you.
"Two to tango" is a narcissist crutch. My mother pulled that one out whenever she was too lazy and uninterested to get involved. So, all the time. It Takes Two for Abuse, too. The Abused, and the Abuser. The abuser leads, and the abused has no choice but to follow.
The first therapist I saw after putting a finger on things told me narcissism isn't a thing but just a fashionable concept. NEXT! The one before (when I was clueless) concluded after 5 years that I was repeating my parents relationship pattern. The person who pointed me in the right direction was the LCSW I was seeing for couple the therapy. My Narc showed up only twice. On a day he didn't show for the nth time, she told me: "You told me you came here to save your marriage, but honey, you don't have one. And what you have is not a husband either. Have you heard of narcissism?" There's a lot of education to be done in the professional mental-health community!!!
My therapist didn't want to go into depth when I told her about my narcissistic family, about the pain I've been suffering from relationships with them. "That's in the past," he said. "How do you know they're narcissistic?", "They're undiagnosed." It is very important to have a therapist who knows about this issue. Dr. Ramani has been my lifeline to understand, to know, because it's not often they know what you're talking to them about.
I am concerned about therapists who do not understand that childhood trauma can be from narcissistic abuse, especially from a neglectful narcissist. Often the abuse grows as the child ages and by the time they are in early adulthood, a narcissistic parent completely abandons them. The truth finally hits home that a child was just an obligation/burden, not a loved one.
My initial therapist kept telling me my skill set needed improvement, that family was critical, that she was my mother... and then sending me into the proverbial lions den at feeding time to work on my skills. It took me a year and a.lot.of checks to realize this therapist was just milking it while pretending to do the work with me. My mother was NEVER going to change because she enjoyed what she did and was happy with the result. I found a much better therapist.
I am just at the end of my level 4 training as a therapist. I have been through narcissistic abuse, my mother, and then my ex-husband. I just repeated familiar patterns learnt. I broke free, and I wanted to support people through this because of the lack of understanding out there. I agree, alot of therapists don't get it, ignorance is rife. I am on placement with a domestic abuse counselling service. Some therapists do get it, and we are out there. Sending loads of support to those going through this. X
Dr Ramani has a great certification in narcissistic abuse recovery. I highly recommend it. After going through my own hard time finding my own therapist in my personal life, I decided to get into her certification so I can help clients in an informed way. I’m so glad most of what she’s taught I have been doing, and learned some other great tools to add to my toolbox. Hope to see more therapists soon get properly trained and to refer out if they do not have the knowledge instead of further invalidate anyone.
PLEASE. DR RAMANI. MY EX NARCISSIST WIFE AND DON'T AGRUMENTS WITH BY DAY AND NIGHT BEING 24/7 DON'T REACT TO SLEEPLESS NIGHT THE NARC BEHAVIOUR TO ME. AND DO NARCISSIST WIFE WASN'T 24/7 OF UNAGRUMENT TO THIS TV CAN ALWAYS BOREDLY WATCH TO ME???
I’ve had to give up on therapists after a decade of them not being narcissist trauma and abuse informed The only true help I’ve found is Dr. Ramani and these videos
It’s important to confront, if done at the right time, in the right way. We cannot live in limbo, or in an island by ourselves. Of course, afterwards, if/when they become mad negate, become mad, and blame back on you, gaslighting, that’s when you tell them you’re done w/them. Or just cease all communication. That’s the last straw. That’s the hardest thing to (have to?) do 😢
I saw a therapist for three years, and she was amazing. She was supportive and caring. But she knew nothing about narcissism. I spent the whole three years trying to figure out what I could do to make things better. As soon as I found out about narcissism, I got out of the relationship. Thank you, Dr. Ramani.💕
@@jeanie5074. That’s what I did. More than once. Caught mother/parents in lies and manipulation to avoid responsibility for nasty things they did. And I couldn’t take it anymore. Started calling them out. Oh wow. I got screamed at. Told they didn’t care about me. Called a liar. You name it. Then they ignore for years at a time and it was always me going back to see them. No more. Been through this all my life over and over. I’m done and have had a life of peace for over a year now and I love it.
I confronted my mother in law one day with asking her kindly and authentically why she would say such a lie about me to another person. She ran away to her bedroom crying.but I stood by my authentic question and still do. I will not play those games anymore. I know who I am. I love me and it feels good and right. I honestly don’t care what other’s opinions of me are anymore and honestly it feels so freeing inside for me to have done this.
@@jeanie5074 I don't believe that. I see no value in confrontation with Narky. It just fuels them and gives them strength. Confrontation is important to narky, and for me, that's a good enough reason to not give it to them. I usually pack up when they aren't looking. They never see it coming, if I can manage that. I just leave.
I've ran into this situation with every therapist I've had. When I was going through severe depression from the backlash of speaking the truth. I sat in a room for two years playing video games and researching what was going on. Figuring out why my family and everyone close to me turned against me (smear campaigns). When I eventually broke down and sought therapy it helped to get it off my chest. Yet, looking back my initial therapist was narcissistic. She got angry when I could peace it all together and knew what was going on, because she exhibited some of the traits herself. She was extremely flirty, & very grandiose. Almost everything in our sessions was reverted to herself and put her in the spotlight. She also seemed very against believe a woman could be an abuser. While the physical abuse wasn't there as much. The psychological abuse I endured was insane. It's like you know what they're doing to you, but your voice about it is inhibited, because nobody will believe you or it will get spun on you. Actually, when I was searching for a second therapist they asked, "What are you searching for in a therapist?" I replied, "A therapist that is empathic, & has knowledge in narcissistic abuse." Lol.
I grew up believing that women were mean. I felt like they would eat me alive. I didn't want to ever marry or have children, because I believed I couldn't be mean enough to rear a proper child. I was afraid of women...and I still avoid them.
I told one therapist that I was dealing with a person who was a self described narcissist and the therapist told me that person was probably just attention seeking. I stopped seeing her as she did not know what she was doing. This person's behaviors all matched with narcissism exactly and they had been clinically diagnosed.
Tolkien said: "It takes but one foe, to breed a war. And even those who don't hold sword, can die upon them." That might not be exact words, but it's close.
In my early 20s I was still living in an abusive home because I did not yet have financial independence and my mental and physical health had declined to the point where I was sent to a psychiatrist. I tried to explain what I was experiencing and he said "Why don't you just laugh at her". I felt he, who had gobs of money and status and financial independence just had no concept at all of what I was facing by way of consequences (being thrown out on to the street).
Dr Ramani is the real deal. Being in her program has done more for me than anything at all, ever, in my 64 years on this planet. The Community in her program understands just how awful Narky Nark Nark can be. I love it.
I was told years ago when my therapist asked if we might do a couples session or two. We went over love languages and after the second session, she said, "I'm not supposed to share my advice like this, but you should GO. He won't change." I just didn't know what to do. So confusing, but true! He won't change.
I have therapy with a Master's student b/c I cannot afford anything else, but I love her. She read It's Not You during her spring break after I told her how good it was. Maybe we're learning together but I really needed someone to talk to.
Masters students become great therapists as well. A great student, will one day make a great therapist. I’m so glad you got a great therapist-in-training.
What should be focused on is not so much the diagnosis, but the forms of narcissistic abuse and self-preservation tactics that are so damaging to others. Bottom line, if a person is gaslighting, has double-standards for their conduct, acts entitled to behave badly or deserve extra special treatment, plays the victim, victim blames, flips the script, is always defensive and pulls out a sword and shield over the slightest complaint/criticism and is willing to fight to the death in order not to feel the slightest discomfort they could have possibly done something wrong and instead kicks the person they claim to love while they’re down, and does not treat others how they expect to be treated, then this is the number one priority. Because none of this is ok. To tell someone they’re overusing the term narcissist, is not ok if the person is experiencing any kind of narcissistic abuse.
I think the whole point, or the only point of therapy is to explain narcissism. Why else would someone need therapy? I've had 10 therapists when I was a child and in my 20' and 30's and not 1 of them mentioned narcissism. That's all I needed to know. That narcissism exists, that I'm not crazy, that it wasn't my fault, and that there wasn't anything I could do... Thank you, Dr. Ramani!!!👍❤❤❤
Narcs live in constant fear. Fear causes anger. I asked her what is she afraid of. I’m not afraid of anything. That’s how she lives. Complete denial. FYI: Doctor, I have never taken responsibility for something I know is not my fault. I realize this might seem strange, but having Asperger’s Syndrome helps me to deal with it. 😊
What could also be helpful is educating people on being an enabler. For example, most people who push against identifying narcissism tend to be unaware of our capacity to make excuses for toxic behavior. But learning to identify when we are enabling abuse will definitely change the way we see people who are suffering from this type of abuse.
Marriage to a narcissist can be compared to a deck of cards. At first you just need two hearts and a diamond to start. But as time goes by, you'll be looking for a CLUB and a SPADE!
aaah ha I had a neighbor who was not discovered until when she was widowed and then she herself died in the middle of a second marriage. She asked her horrible husband to use the spade and dig a big hole for something that she wanted, and then she killed him and put him in it.
I think the basic CBT seeks to reframe your thoughts, and even if the therapist believes you, this is the main tool of this modality of therapy. And it’s not helpful when the patient is in this specific kind of situation and they’re asked, “what if you’re misinterpreting the situation?” It feels like invalidation.
Yes, too many therapists are ignorant about narcissistic relationships! It’s been difficult to find a trustworthy and skillful therapist, in my experience.
Our therapist had my narc read books on bipolar to help him understand me better. She never said anything about his issues just mine. Im not bipolar either.
Narcissistic abuse is something ppl don't understand unless they go through it yes! Abuse alters your being, leaves a permanent scar in your heart, & you lose your entire strength, it's death. I absolutely envy those who get out of these relationships quick! Being emotionally abused by a covert is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It's a real life Persephone, you don't seek the narcissist, they choose you as prey. My therapist was so rude & interrupted me while I spoke about my abuse. I'm so glad I told her how ignorant she was. Even those that just look at overts as shallow entitled beings, they dismiss the other parts of it. Thank you so much for this video Dr. Ramani! ♥♥
I went to two therapists who had no understanding of narcissism.I was so disappointed in the lack of help ,I just gave up on therapy .You must do more that just sitting there listening to.
A stretch, but I've always thought it was like this because a vast majority of our leaders are narcissistic. Almost like they create a bubble for themselves to keep themselves protected from being outed themselves. Digging this 2024 trend. A lot of big names are being brought to justice. Hopefully it keeps up.
True. Someone can harass you and do all kinds of things to you, but if you retaliate - you get punished. This was a favorite game of our Narc for years. He would take unsuspecting people and push them till they snapped - then call the police and get them arrested!
@@twovirginiacats3753Well, times, they are a changing. Look up the Apple River Stabbing trial going on now. All the kids that bullied and goaded a middle aged man are now on the stand and telling obvious lies. They got stabbed by the guy defending himself and tried playing the victims. Not working. The veil is slowly lifting for these dirtbags. Finally.
When you take the blow from your shitty therapist when you needed the support most and you have no one to support you-- Get busy with activities, direct your brain to focus on anything, something… gardening, watch movies, better watch Dr. Ramani’s videos on TH-cam! You will get through this and get wiser than ever! Just keep moving. Praying for all of you.
The last therapist I had, treated me like a child and leaned in saying... Susan, I can't help you if you don't tell me the truth.. (several times!) I have never lied to a therapist. It was very weird.
That makes me very angre. Where does your therapist get off behaving like that? OK, just had to say that. Hope you got away from them soner rather than later.
Calling things by their proper name - means we know how to interact with it. All my NPD survivors and people who are trapped in these relationships, please review Dr. Ramani’s narcissist glossary to help you with what you feel, understand, fear, but have no words to talk about. You are not crazy. It’s really happening. Having the right words will help With recovery
the last therapist i went to was constantly making excuses for my dad and how often he works and how losing a wife is really hard. i felt so gaslighted and i wasn't grasping what she was doing. i wish i could give her a piece of my mind
Typical relationship guidance is actually DETRIMENTAL/DANGEROUS when you're in a narcissistic relationship. I feel all relationship-advice videos and articles should have a disclaimer about the advice not applying to narcissistic relationships. It might actually point a few people in the right direction!!!
At first, my therapist didn't understand i was married to a narcissist. We only had a couple sessions, then i went no contact with the narcissist . And now my therapist has heard everything about the relationship with the ex narc. He understands now. So grateful for his words of support.
I live in Southern California and have seen at least a half-dozen different therapists over a span of about 20 years. I described my situation accurately each time and not one therapist ever suggested that I was a victim of narcissistic abuse. Even after I read a book about narcissistic abuse and brought it into my sessions first with a psychologist and then with a psychiatrist, these mental health professionals still refused to validate my experiences or make any changes with my therapy. All licensed mental health professionals should at least be capable of identifying the patterns of narcissistic abuse and able to direct the patient to the appropriate professional. People should not have to self-diagnose themselves and know that they are receiving the wrong therapy. I have come to accept that finding a therapist who understands narcissistic abuse is nearly impossible and not worth the effort. In fact, it seems that going to therapy is more likely to make matters much worse, especially for men.
My ex-girlfriend's behavior was very confusing to me until I learned about covert narcissism. Whether or not she would be diagnosed as such doesn't really matter because she displays the behaviors and traits of a covert narcissist. Viewing our relationship from that perspective helps me make sense of it and start healing the trauma bond and moving on.
What I have learned from your videos since September 2023, I want to go back to my past counseling sessions and tell them to get out, as they failed me, and made it as all the hell I went through with narcissist Melford Morris was my fault. Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing and caring Prayers Psalm 1-150🙏
I would say in my world - every authority figure from schools to courts to police and therapists arrogantly caused so much damage. While you are left begging them to understand how damaging NPD is. They are not therapists.
This happened to me. The narcissist was literally STEALING $$ from me - not to mention other things- and the therapist was SO nonchalant about it. She didn’t even acknowledge it as a break of trust. I have no idea what the narcissist said to the therapist about me but he was able to finesse her into his way of thinking . I couldn’t understand it!! I called her out on it and she said oh I don’t think it was right was he did. Huh?!?! He literally forged my signature on a document to steal money from me and she said NOTHING. This was back when I didn’t realize that the narcissist was playing me and I was holding out hope that a therapist could help the narcissist could help him understand that what he was doing was WRONG!!! Omg. I actually think the therapist was a narcissist as well! She was definitely aligned with darkness. Just run from these people/ just 🏃
My therapist assisted me initially to set boundaries, to get him to stop his regular gambling and to encourage me to travel solo ( which I did ) She had no idea about the pitfalls of daily living with a narc . The constant lies , gaslighting, invalidation, rudeness, insults, diminishing, minimising, not seeing you as a person but as an object to serve a function- the list continues. I stopped therapy. Dr Ramani is my daily source of therapy now 😊💖
Omg. I wasted $ and over a year with a therapist who tried 2 help fix ME and never picked up on the real problem ... My 20yr marriage to a narcissistic. I learned about narcissistic abuse on my own. So frustrating .
Dr Ramani if you read this I hope you know you are saving lives by educating people about narcissism. Before I found this channel I was ready to believe that I was insane out of sheer exhaustion from fighting for my life every single day. I knew deep down something was very very wrong with my family but did not have the right tools to figure out what. Forget narcissism, most people don't even understand trauma.
I recently changed therapists when she told me that when we are offered a different perspective to a situation and we take responsibility for ourselves and our actions that contributed to that situation, we no longer see it as abuse and trauma. So I'm telling her about how my narc father raged at me when I was 13, in the car doing 170km down the main highway at 2am, locking the car doors. All I could do was curl up in a ball and cry while he screamed abuse at me for over an hour. I told my therapist about how I had told my partner at the time about the abuse I had suffered and that particular incident. I then told my therapist about how abusive that bf turned out to be and how he reinacted that moment when I was 13 by raging at me in the car and not letting me out, purposely driving around and ignoring my pleas to stop the car and let me out. The therapist asked what my father was raging about. When I told her I had been in trouble 2wks previously, she automatically told me I had to take responsibility for my actions when I had been in trouble and acknowledge that my father was just parenting me and that was my consequence for being in trouble. When I take full responsibility for my own actions, I no longer see my father as abusive in that moment. And her perspective on my then partner doing it was us having a fight and I needed to stop running away from petty conflict. I walked out of the session when she failed to recognise that I had already taken responsibility for my actions 2wks previously when my mum grounded me for the weekend and we talked about my behaviour. She didnt trap me and scream abuse at me for over an hour and I did my grounding.
Sometimes, therapists can do even more damage than the abuse itself. Your story is a case in point. We're gaslighted by the Narc. We gaslight ourselves. Therapy shouldn't be a place of further abuse. ❤
"So, Ms Therapist; you're telling me that you would take these kinds of actions to parent your child? Oh, you're telling me that it would acceptable for your partner to parent your children by screaming at them while driving 170mph down the road? And if I came in one day and said that was how I had parented MY child, you wouldn't feel madated to report my behavior?" I find that interesting and informative.
@christelleny my thoughts exactly when she was telling me all this crap. I'd already been gaslight by the narcissist, I wasn't about to gaslight myself into thinking what happened was my fault and he wasn't abusive just to save myself from trauma. Like BAM! And the traumas gone! It didn't magically fix what I was going through, it made it worse. So she had to go.
Thank you so much for validating my experience Dr Ramani. I finally …finally found a trauma informed therapist who understands the narcissist dynamic and it has made all the difference in the world. And your Healing program is absolutely making a difference for me too.
This is so real and appropriate for where I am at in my healing. Thank you so much for helping me know how to deal with those questions "why did I stay so long ". Those that know me(us) said "It's about time. Good for you." The latter comment was my confirmation to not feel guilty.
In my experience, a therapist doesn't have to understand narcissism to be effective and validating. My therapist didn't 'get it' at first, but through our work, and his openness, we both learned an awful lot.
I've been in & out of therapy for 38 years. I can't tell you how many bad therapists I've had. About 6 years ago, I finally got a good one, and then he retired. My life changed in the brief time that I went to him. My new therapist, which I found after 3 or 4 tries, asked me what he did & what I've tried that helped. I couldn't even say. He just understood. He was in my corner. My theory is that he dealt with a narcissist in his past, probably in his family. Every time I think this one gets it, she says something that makes me think she doesn't really get it. Maybe a therapist can learn about it or read about it, but if they've never been a victim, it's really hard to understand. That's my guess. There's a big difference between being treated for low self-esteem & anxiety & being gaslit, the thing that causes it.
Yes one said “I don’t like labels “.. I called them on it because nobody had issues saying someone is depressed or bipolar or schizophrenic or aggressive or anything else but “don’t use the word narcissist” ?? 🤔🤯they definitely need to be trained in this subject so as not to invalidate victims further who go for help
A therapist told me to stop poking the narcissist and stop bringing up the past, because what good does it do😮is there a button? I would love to forget the past!!!
Well, hopefully therapists now understand a bit more because narcissism is being explained through channels like yours. I mean, I had a narcissistic therapist who literally would call me by my middle name instead of my actual name(that was a red flag). I think after a MONTH of her playing musical meds (I did tell her politely not to switch my meds and to leave them alone), when she decided to play musical meds, it felt as if I was having my first mental health breakdown for the first time again. There was a lot of discrepancies and in the first session I picked up on her her energy and I had (no choice with this person as a therapist), one so when I went to reschedule an appointment, I phoned her up, and she told me in a flat cold tone, "I'm leaving the country and I don't know when I'm coming back," HOWEVER, NOW I do have a therapist who actually listens to me and understands where I'm coming from. I've actually recommended Dr. Ramani's book to my therapist, and I'm pretty sure she's going to pick up a copy.
What about a therapist who says “I don’t know that he’s a narcissist because I haven’t met him, and you’re villainizing him”? I experienced this after 2 years with this therapist after I told her the previous therapist said the same. It’s hard to find a therapist who truly has knowledge and understanding about trauma bond, cognitive dissonance, and narcissism. Are there any therapists out there who is safe??
“It takes two to tango”actually woke me up when my doctor said it, as I was taking all the blame in my scape goat role. It also means to me that I don’t need to engage in the bullcrap.
I had a therapist ask me lots of questions about my emotional abuse from my ex narcissist husband. I was looking for help for me and my two boys. She advised me to have therapy with our two sons and him. In our first appointment, she wanted to meet with my narcissist ex-husband 1st and asked me to go take my time at the park with my son's. Well, I came back, and she asked me to meet with me to tell me my ex was the way he was because my ex-husband's father abounded him at a young age. And he didn't know how to be a father or a good partner because of that. In my head, I think I knew that. I knew write away, the therapist wasn't going to be able to help me and my two boys. How did my narcissist husband fake it for 19 years, and suddenly, his mask fell off. Well, because his a narcissist!
I waited 5 months for an appointment, just to be gaslighted by my therapist. He told me I should've just left my family if it had been that bad. He also claimed I have OCD and should just learn to relax.
When you are the only person in the relationship that ever tries anything to work on the relationship such as reading or going to therapy or talking to your partner and the other person dismisses your efforts or makes fun of therapy then you are not in a good relationship with a good person and it does not change. I was told for 20 years by different therapists that I just needed to try harder
I am glad that my therapist happens to understand narcissism. He was a victim of narcissistic abuse and did extensive studying on it. He was the very first to notice and mention my now ex was displaying narcissistic behavior.
How about being asked to do an intake history and then told that you're lying! Like yeah you know what I have nothing better to do than pay you a few hundred dollars an hour to to lie about my life history and be insulted.
Recently, I was watching a prominent news channel whereby the commentators were specifically told by the station they cannot use the word ''Narcissism or Narcissist' while on the air. Why do some prefer that people with the know-how and the ability to research ie. therapists and those with a voice to communicate about the topic ie. media choose to keep their heads buried in the sand? The world needs to know because this topic is very real. Similar to 50 years ago when a woman had bruises and black eyes on her face, the abuser would speak up and say she had a bad fall.
Because Narkys run the justice system and government and economy. That's why. Look around and you'll see the rampant narcissism in every practice, industry, and institution in America. Was it FOX? Of course they won't let the concept of Narkiness be spread. It would expose their darling DJT.
I had it happen where I started doing couples counseling w/ my girlfriend and her therapist and the therapist sided w/ my girlfriend by saying I just have to accept her and her backstory. Needless to say I never saw the therapist again and I walked out of the relationship 2 weeks later.
My therapist told me that my dad who sexually abused me, stole my life savings, spread rumors, gaslit and held me at gunpoint loves me and I should move back home.
I had an arrogant psychiatrist get angry at me at the mention of psychological abuse… which was the most ironic thing in the world to me. He cut me off and screamed at me so loudly during the appointment that I terminated the rest of my sessions with him and went somewhere else. Never in my life had I been so belittled before by a doctor. It was astounding yet scary to me. He didn’t get it at all.
Telling people they're at fault for abuse because "it takes two to tango" is the biggest lie narcissists & enablers spread. It's so important that therapists get narcissistic abuse and the disorder itself. I know someone who had to set boundaries with a narcissist who tried to infiltrate her life. That therapist said she's got "anxious attachment." I relate to you saying how reading relationship advice is only suitable if you're in a masochistic mood.
I had a therapist during the prime of my PTSD. I was explaining to her how I began being excluded, belittled, humiliated and to top it off, the narc managed to get everyone on his side and it bothered me because it felt unfair and cruel. The therapist then said which still angers me to this day: "It sounds like you are jealous of him" Then went on to say that she was happy for him that he was blessed. I've not gotten therapy ever since and its been 7 years. Dr Ramani and the man from "Surviving Narcissism" have helped me tremendously.
I was seeing a therapist and she at first wanted to take me as an L&I patient under the Victims Compensation program. After I started seeing her she mentioned how it's too much paperwork and a hassle. I then knew that she wasn't the right therapist for me. I'm still dealing with getting her to understand that the state will be compensating her for the co-pay and I've had to send in the billing from her and my EOB statements. It's awful on top of trying to heal from the abuse of the past relationship. Now I'm in a trauma group that doesn't exist for someone who just cares about the money but they actually care about my healing. What a difference. I gave up on therapy after dealing with my former therapist.
This is such a thorny subject. I am so very scarred from my attempts to mend the relationship with my mother via therapy. I ended up being ganged up on, the therapist taking her side. The person I saw by myself, simply gave me pills to numb the pain. He gave me the mantra: I am feeling calm. It does not help to have this type of balm over something that continues to burn you over time.
Boundaries is hard to set once we walk into a doctor’s office, someone “in authority,” ie, you need to be like a naked person infront of a stranger that wants to pick, and poke, and still not understand your situation.
22:39 our therapist told me I have no right to my husband’s desires and thoughts. She said that he is allowed to look at other women and be the porn addict he’s become. That I need to just only focus on myself alone and let him be and only if I discover he is actually cheating with a real person can I be upset by his behavior. I threw my arms up then. I’m soooo alone here!
What a crappy therapist. You could print out this thread, and send it to her. Anonymously. On a postcard, so everyone who delivers and handles can see.
While many don't understand it .. some are learning (as we are) what it is .. and then there are those therapists who ARE narcissists themselves. :O I Have NO DOUBT I've met at least 1. She ""TOld Me'' *In a condescending way* She said: "You have to understand > Everyone has narcissitic traits. Everyone Lies. Then anotehr person in her office started talking over me And this ""therapist"> Told Me that ""Takling over people happens .. and I needed to be more patient . *Gaslight much? .. She was supposed to be doing an ""intake"" on me back in the fall of the year > NO FKN WAY< Talk about Red Flags!!! I am So fortunate to have found Dr. Ramani on here And a great therapist in person **So far so good :D I am Feeling and Behaving like I'm ALIVE Again! :D
I love it when you make me laugh, Dr. Ramani. It stops my tendency to go through the same old worn out paths that I know did not and will never work. Thank you! ❤
As far as I'm concerned, unless a therapist SPECIALIZES in narcissistic abuse, I will not even bother. Too many uneducated therapists out there causing harm...
@rwdchannel2901, so glad you realized early on, the therapist was wrong; and you stopped going. Praying for your healing.
"EVIL" has really worked hard to keep all this about narcissism hidden from we common folk!!
@@rwdchannel2901 for the past 5 years I have been learning about narcissism from Dr. Ramani, Dr. Les Carter, Kris Godinez; and more recently, Paula of Narc Con and Andrew of Narc Daily...very grateful to them for bringing their knowledge and expertise to us through you tube. They have helped millions of people like us, struggling to understand what it is we have been through, or are going through...and creating communities like this one; where those who have experienced this type of abuse- help and support each other. It's not just a clinical, physiological condition. There is spiritual warfare involved. And this is why we should also draw closer to God who is love and peace. Praying and keeping Him close in conversation, helped keep my sanity amidst all the chaos this narc has brought upon us. And many times too, provisions by divine intervention ( I kid you not)- whenever in dire need. As you know, narcs bring about all forms of abuse- physical, verbal emotional, economic/financial abuse..as they thrive in chaos, drama, pain, conflict and lies. All very good reasons to stay away from the narc. If you have to love them, love them from afar. And you are very right, choose your therapists wisely. =)
I'm a licensed therapist and agree with you completely. Most of us therapist have to be impacted by something in order to make us going from good to great and/or experts on various topics such as autism, geriatric care, and narcissism for example.
Do agree. Untalented therapist causes more harm.
Therapists may just tell you to talk to the narcissist. Or to explain to the narcissist what you’re not happy with. They may even blame you and gaslight you.
And sadly, some therapists out there are narcissists. And their clients are their victims.
You are so right. My gut feeling about 6 months into our relationship was that I should just pack my bags and totally disappear. I followed the advice of a counselor and tried to "work through" the situation. Big mistake.
@@twovirginiacats3753 I understand, but also keep in mind that it's not always the therapists fault. I've coached psychologists and psychotherapists who didn't know anything about narcissism and wanted to learn more. One therapist told me that they don't even teach about it in the universities. So sometimes, even therapists find themselves in narcissistic relationships.
It can be quite a frightening experience, when you seek out a therapist for support, and they're giving you advice that may cause you even more harm. Which is why I would advise seeking out a therapist who is educated on narcissism. So that they can lead you on the correct path.
Yes.
I'd say MOST doctors and therapists are narcissists. Some of them, have practiced years before noticing their own issues.
@@NarcSurvivor True. Things have changed a lot over the last 20 years! :)
💯
Maybe do an episode about therapists who ARE narcissists.
Yes
She did! It's called Can a Therapist be a Narcissist? th-cam.com/video/JLMgWOadZxA/w-d-xo.html
My mom counseled children in foster care. She refused to attend counseling with me because she knew she’d be found out. Instead, she said “You don’t need a therapist. I am a therapist and I say” blah blah blah.
I’ve read so many comments from those married to a narcissist that I as a therapist or a psychiatrist. A relative’s psychiatrist killed his wife and kept going to work like it was nothing while her body decomposed in the bathroom. He was later deemed a psychopath by court evaluators.
I almost dated a psychiatrist turned stalker in my twenties. It was a very scary time. We went out once but I didn’t feel comfortable ever going out with him again. I’m probably lucky he took me back home from that one date.
There are so many in the field that could be diagnosed. Ive always joked with friends and their college-aged kids that if they majored in psychology or the like, they were surrounded by crazy people or it’s them. It’s not so funny now.
Same happened to me. Sister in-law , a marriage and family councilor , who is npd and psychotic( diagnosed by her psychiatrist son) was a flying monkey also. Helped turn my adult sons against me. Wife is covert n
Yes. Thank you. Met one recently that was about to get her doctorate...kinda scary.
I think it's safe to say that MOST therapist don't understand narcissistic abuse or trauma. At least from my own personal experience
They really don't. I don't even deal with therapists anymore unless they have a background in trauma.
IMO, 79% of the time people need therapy to get over therapy! YOU, Dr Ramani are a rare gift. TY!
I wish she could be my therapist!!!!!😢
I have to say 1 in 100 therapist understand NPD. Yet they dont have experience on how hard the relationship with NPD is. What a DISASTER👺
The way I found out about narcissism was through a counsellor at a women's shelter. I told her some of the experiences I had endured. She told me the titles of books I needed to buy (One of them being Malignant Self Love) and through reading I learned that it went way back to my family of origin and my narc Mom. I am very grateful to that counsellor at the women's shelter for opening my eyes and putting me on the right path.
You’re right, it’s really strange that more of them don’t understand because it’s such a serious and pervasive problem.
I am so grateful you ran into that shelter worker, but hope you are proud of all your hard work. @@l.5832
💯 The one who pointed me in the right direction was a LCSW!!!
@@Cocobean134 It also stupid that they don't understand. Everyone knows that there are abused children...but no one seems to believe the abused children when they talk about their parents. Therapists buy into the Sacred Parents ideal just as much as the rest of the world.
Oh this is a big topic! Many therapists from my experience unfortunately do not have an experiential knowledge of narcissism. And boy will they invalidate your experience and it hurts even more.
Exactly. Plus, it is not only invalidating, but can also put your life in danger.
_“how beautiful to find a heart that loves you, without asking you for anything, but to be okay.”_
*- Kahlil Gibran* †
A dog
😔
@elcee7800 lol, I was just thinking- "Hey! That describes my cat Mini !! " 😂🐈⬛
@@darkcrystalmagik3369 ….and kitty cats xo!
The talented therapists who understand about the abuse with the clarity are really rare.
Extremely rare
@@erinmorrow5001 so it could be the extension of the abuse by therapist in disguise of healing. The recognition about abuse is essential but it is like confronting all kinds of myths and illusions that human society has created for so long. They feel so uncomfortable about being evil in humanity like the society tries to hide the scapegoats.
@@bingoandtoto Exactly.....plus some are probably 'cluster b ' as well.
I have a good one but have a few questions for him.
I'm stuck on rehashing the narc's history.....Did he or didn't he, over and over again....
Some therapist simply don't want to understand!!!
Therapist hunting is like playing Russian roulette.
I’ve had a therapist who sided with my narcissist parent and told me that person is not a narcissist and it was my fault for not setting stronger boundaries. I felt very dismissed and invalidated as if it was my fault for my own abuse.
Therapists who are narcissists themselves will stick up for other narcissists, I had the same thing happen to me. It’s a horrible experience and I’m sorry you had to go through that, the therapist I dealt with completely blamed me for the narcissist’s behavior, saying his behavior was caused by my talking too much and making facial expressions that annoyed him so I should “watch my face”. It was ludicrous.
Never go to a counsellor that is paid for by your abusive spouse's business. BIG conflict of interest. They side with the employee every time because they want their contract renewed. There were decades of unresolved issues in our marriage. My husband would not talk about his abusive behaviours I experienced so the therapist tried to get me to promise to never talk about anything that happened in the past. Then what is therapy for? As soon as my husband did something abusive I would call him out on it and he's say that since it had already occurred, it was in the past and I wasn't allowed to bring it up! Crazy making!! (I am now divorced).
last 8 months i saw 5 therapists, i all make them look stupid. they knew nothing while in have nearly a 1000 videos about it. the only thing i'm struggling with still today is loneliness. i have no support system, friends and no family who undertands anything. and i made a promise to myself that i will NOT let anyone gaslitgh me about narcissitic abuse or narcissits. 46 years from my mother, 15 with my covert wife and with a nearly a 1000 videos about it in my head in the last 8 months...i dare anyone to gaslight me about it....NO ONE with keep me quiet about it! I will not get denied what the hell i went through my entire life!
Wouldn't it be great if there was a Narc-proof dating site where we can find new friends and partners? The post-Narc abuse is indeed a lonely place... You've lost many of the people you know either because of the break up or the smear campaign. You've eliminated a few more as you learn to set boundaries and protect yourself. You've distanced yourself from your Narc family members (for most of us). You're scared to death of missing the signs again and sign up for another round of abuse. Self-isolation seems the only way to protect yourself. This world has suddenly become a scary, lonely place.
Right on!
I get you on all fronts!! We got your back here!
Hang in there, you're doing great! I'm older without family or friends and it's painful . But the clarity and authentic self emerging- the real me, is one beautiful creature!
I have wished there were support groups for narcissistic abuse survivors. I get a lot out of reading comments, but a real support group would be a game changer for me. Even if it was a group that met on Zoom. I would participate.
My therapist called him 'predator'.
She avoided 'narcissism'.
Thank you Dr Ramani.
You are the only person who does not gaslight us and acknowledges that it WAS abuse, we didn't imagine it.
Therapy may or maynot work. Depends on how much we suffered. I prefer self care and self healing instead of involving a therapist who may escalate the problem
Sushma, this is what I did for the 4 yrs. I got over him and the emotional part in 2-1/2 yrs, but the ptsd hardly at all. It is like a ball and chain attached to me. And this is with antidepressants. 🪷🙏🏼🪷
Me too. Slowly but im healing after a year of watching videos and starting to recognize more and more narcs in my life and becoming aware of my vulnerabilities and childhood trauma. If only i had more free time i think it could be even more profound.
In the late 80's I was told by my lawyer not to bring up the abuse because it would delay the divorce.
It wasn't until the late 80's spousal abuse was legally recognized.
I am currently being told that now. About to go to divorce court. He said there's no point because a regular person can also do what she's doing. We're just gonna bring up what she's doing but not why she's doing it or her condition. Kind of make sense but I don't know....
@@TheFloridaTraveler Sadly, it doesn't leave the paper trail that is needed for offenders.
@@t_nels: Great point.
Iam age 68 & in my youth & middle-age years, I never heard the word narcissist & here it is in my elder years I hear & learn about it now & "yeah, now you tell me"!! "Great"!!!
When you realize the behavior of the narcissist in your life ticks the boxes, I think it's ok to claim that person has those traits and stand by your word without softening your words. I was also told by a therapist that it takes "two to tango" when I described my MIL, and I soon realized she had NO IDEA what narcissism really is. I've gone to a handful of therapists over the years, and I've concluded if they haven't personally dealt with a narcissistic person in their life they do not have the context to help you.
"Two to tango" is a narcissist crutch. My mother pulled that one out whenever she was too lazy and uninterested to get involved.
So, all the time.
It Takes Two for Abuse, too. The Abused, and the Abuser.
The abuser leads, and the abused has no choice but to follow.
The first therapist I saw after putting a finger on things told me narcissism isn't a thing but just a fashionable concept. NEXT!
The one before (when I was clueless) concluded after 5 years that I was repeating my parents relationship pattern.
The person who pointed me in the right direction was the LCSW I was seeing for couple the therapy. My Narc showed up only twice. On a day he didn't show for the nth time, she told me: "You told me you came here to save your marriage, but honey, you don't have one. And what you have is not a husband either. Have you heard of narcissism?"
There's a lot of education to be done in the professional mental-health community!!!
My therapist didn't want to go into depth when I told her about my narcissistic family, about the pain I've been suffering from relationships with them. "That's in the past," he said. "How do you know they're narcissistic?", "They're undiagnosed."
It is very important to have a therapist who knows about this issue. Dr. Ramani has been my lifeline to understand, to know, because it's not often they know what you're talking to them about.
Right? Who cares if they're diagnosed and labelled or not? They act ugly and abusive; they are ugly and abusive.
I am concerned about therapists who do not understand that childhood trauma can be from narcissistic abuse, especially from a neglectful narcissist. Often the abuse grows as the child ages and by the time they are in early adulthood, a narcissistic parent completely abandons them. The truth finally hits home that a child was just an obligation/burden, not a loved one.
My initial therapist kept telling me my skill set needed improvement, that family was critical, that she was my mother... and then sending me into the proverbial lions den at feeding time to work on my skills.
It took me a year and a.lot.of checks to realize this therapist was just milking it while pretending to do the work with me.
My mother was NEVER going to change because she enjoyed what she did and was happy with the result.
I found a much better therapist.
I am just at the end of my level 4 training as a therapist. I have been through narcissistic abuse, my mother, and then my ex-husband. I just repeated familiar patterns learnt.
I broke free, and I wanted to support people through this because of the lack of understanding out there.
I agree, alot of therapists don't get it, ignorance is rife.
I am on placement with a domestic abuse counselling service.
Some therapists do get it, and we are out there. Sending loads of support to those going through this. X
Dr Ramani has a great certification in narcissistic abuse recovery. I highly recommend it. After going through my own hard time finding my own therapist in my personal life, I decided to get into her certification so I can help clients in an informed way. I’m so glad most of what she’s taught I have been doing, and learned some other great tools to add to my toolbox. Hope to see more therapists soon get properly trained and to refer out if they do not have the knowledge instead of further invalidate anyone.
Same here. 😊
PLEASE. DR RAMANI. MY EX NARCISSIST WIFE AND DON'T AGRUMENTS WITH BY DAY AND NIGHT BEING 24/7 DON'T REACT TO SLEEPLESS NIGHT THE NARC BEHAVIOUR TO ME. AND DO NARCISSIST WIFE WASN'T 24/7 OF UNAGRUMENT TO THIS TV CAN ALWAYS BOREDLY WATCH TO ME???
I love my therapist though I often believe that I am teaching him. I think narcissism should be a course in and of itself. Thanks Dr. Ramani.
Same 🤦♀️
Same here. Ive had to tell them things to look up. Things Ive learned from watching Dr. Ramani's videos.
Therapists who can learn from their clients are good ones. 😊
I’ve had to give up on therapists after a decade of them not being narcissist trauma and abuse informed
The only true help I’ve found is Dr. Ramani and these videos
Same😊
Same. I've only found at most 1-2 that kind of get it. Most of them are really better off just being counselors.
I had a therapist tell me I should confront my vulnerable narcissist mother and call her out on her bait. PASS.
It’s important to confront, if done at the right time, in the right way. We cannot live in limbo, or in an island by ourselves. Of course, afterwards, if/when they become mad negate, become mad, and blame back on you, gaslighting, that’s when you tell them you’re done w/them. Or just cease all communication. That’s the last straw. That’s the hardest thing to (have to?) do 😢
I saw a therapist for three years, and she was amazing. She was supportive and caring. But she knew nothing about narcissism. I spent the whole three years trying to figure out what I could do to make things better. As soon as I found out about narcissism, I got out of the relationship. Thank you, Dr. Ramani.💕
@@jeanie5074. That’s what I did. More than once. Caught mother/parents in lies and manipulation to avoid responsibility for nasty things they did. And I couldn’t take it anymore. Started calling them out. Oh wow. I got screamed at. Told they didn’t care about me. Called a liar. You name it. Then they ignore for years at a time and it was always me going back to see them. No more. Been through this all my life over and over. I’m done and have had a life of peace for over a year now and I love it.
I confronted my mother in law one day with asking her kindly and authentically why she would say such a lie about me to another person. She ran away to her bedroom crying.but I stood by my authentic question and still do. I will not play those games anymore. I know who I am. I love me and it feels good and right. I honestly don’t care what other’s opinions of me are anymore and honestly it feels so freeing inside for me to have done this.
@@jeanie5074 I don't believe that. I see no value in confrontation with Narky. It just fuels them and gives them strength.
Confrontation is important to narky, and for me, that's a good enough reason to not give it to them.
I usually pack up when they aren't looking. They never see it coming, if I can manage that. I just leave.
I've ran into this situation with every therapist I've had. When I was going through severe depression from the backlash of speaking the truth. I sat in a room for two years playing video games and researching what was going on. Figuring out why my family and everyone close to me turned against me (smear campaigns). When I eventually broke down and sought therapy it helped to get it off my chest. Yet, looking back my initial therapist was narcissistic. She got angry when I could peace it all together and knew what was going on, because she exhibited some of the traits herself. She was extremely flirty, & very grandiose. Almost everything in our sessions was reverted to herself and put her in the spotlight. She also seemed very against believe a woman could be an abuser. While the physical abuse wasn't there as much. The psychological abuse I endured was insane. It's like you know what they're doing to you, but your voice about it is inhibited, because nobody will believe you or it will get spun on you. Actually, when I was searching for a second therapist they asked, "What are you searching for in a therapist?" I replied, "A therapist that is empathic, & has knowledge in narcissistic abuse." Lol.
I grew up believing that women were mean. I felt like they would eat me alive.
I didn't want to ever marry or have children, because I believed I couldn't be mean enough to rear a proper child. I was afraid of women...and I still avoid them.
My therapist described my narcissist psychopath father as clumsy...it was a bit more than that. Man almost got me killed
Insane
I told one therapist that I was dealing with a person who was a self described narcissist and the therapist told me that person was probably just attention seeking. I stopped seeing her as she did not know what she was doing. This person's behaviors all matched with narcissism exactly and they had been clinically diagnosed.
It takes two to tango - but it only takes one to be a narcissistic abuser
I've been gaslit way too many times to be suckered again.
Yes!
Tolkien said: "It takes but one foe, to breed a war. And even those who don't hold sword, can die upon them." That might not be exact words, but it's close.
In my early 20s I was still living in an abusive home because I did not yet have financial independence and my mental and physical health had declined to the point where I was sent to a psychiatrist. I tried to explain what I was experiencing and he said "Why don't you just laugh at her". I felt he, who had gobs of money and status and financial independence just had no concept at all of what I was facing by way of consequences (being thrown out on to the street).
Dr Ramani is the real deal. Being in her program has done more for me than anything at all, ever, in my 64 years on this planet. The Community in her program understands just how awful Narky Nark Nark can be. I love it.
amen, glad youre healing
😀
I was told years ago when my therapist asked if we might do a couples session or two. We went over love languages and after the second session, she said, "I'm not supposed to share my advice like this, but you should GO. He won't change." I just didn't know what to do. So confusing, but true! He won't change.
I have therapy with a Master's student b/c I cannot afford anything else, but I love her. She read It's Not You during her spring break after I told her how good it was. Maybe we're learning together but I really needed someone to talk to.
Masters students become great therapists as well. A great student, will one day make a great therapist. I’m so glad you got a great therapist-in-training.
What should be focused on is not so much the diagnosis, but the forms of narcissistic abuse and self-preservation tactics that are so damaging to others. Bottom line, if a person is gaslighting, has double-standards for their conduct, acts entitled to behave badly or deserve extra special treatment, plays the victim, victim blames, flips the script, is always defensive and pulls out a sword and shield over the slightest complaint/criticism and is willing to fight to the death in order not to feel the slightest discomfort they could have possibly done something wrong and instead kicks the person they claim to love while they’re down, and does not treat others how they expect to be treated, then this is the number one priority. Because none of this is ok. To tell someone they’re overusing the term narcissist, is not ok if the person is experiencing any kind of narcissistic abuse.
I think the whole point, or the only point of therapy is to explain narcissism. Why else would someone need therapy? I've had 10 therapists when I was a child and in my 20' and 30's and not 1 of them mentioned narcissism. That's all I needed to know. That narcissism exists, that I'm not crazy, that it wasn't my fault, and that there wasn't anything I could do...
Thank you, Dr. Ramani!!!👍❤❤❤
Narcs live in constant fear. Fear causes anger. I asked her what is she afraid of. I’m not afraid of anything. That’s how she lives. Complete denial. FYI: Doctor, I have never taken responsibility for something I know is not my fault. I realize this might seem strange, but having Asperger’s Syndrome helps me to deal with it. 😊
What could also be helpful is educating people on being an enabler. For example, most people who push against identifying narcissism tend to be unaware of our capacity to make excuses for toxic behavior. But learning to identify when we are enabling abuse will definitely change the way we see people who are suffering from this type of abuse.
Marriage to a narcissist can be compared to a deck of cards. At first you just need two hearts and a diamond to start. But as time goes by, you'll be looking for a CLUB and a SPADE!
aaah ha
I had a neighbor who was not discovered until when she was widowed and then she herself died in the middle of a second marriage. She asked her horrible husband to use the spade and dig a big hole for something that she wanted, and then she killed him and put him in it.
Love that!!!
I used a Knife actually. Reactive Abuse...
😂
59 years and the abuse never stops!
I think the basic CBT seeks to reframe your thoughts, and even if the therapist believes you, this is the main tool of this modality of therapy. And it’s not helpful when the patient is in this specific kind of situation and they’re asked, “what if you’re misinterpreting the situation?” It feels like invalidation.
Yes, too many therapists are ignorant about narcissistic relationships! It’s been difficult to find a trustworthy and skillful therapist, in my experience.
Our therapist had my narc read books on bipolar to help him understand me better. She never said anything about his issues just mine. Im not bipolar either.
❤ I was (not) borderline!
Narcissistic abuse is something ppl don't understand unless they go through it yes! Abuse alters your being, leaves a permanent scar in your heart, & you lose your entire strength, it's death. I absolutely envy those who get out of these relationships quick! Being emotionally abused by a covert is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It's a real life Persephone, you don't seek the narcissist, they choose you as prey. My therapist was so rude & interrupted me while I spoke about my abuse. I'm so glad I told her how ignorant she was. Even those that just look at overts as shallow entitled beings, they dismiss the other parts of it. Thank you so much for this video Dr. Ramani! ♥♥
I went to two therapists who had no understanding of narcissism.I was so disappointed in the lack of help ,I just gave up on therapy .You must do more that just sitting there listening to.
Bullying isn't illegal but being a Vigilante is, go figure. Perfect example of how,
LIFE isn't FAIR!
Bullying can be a law enforcement issue if you fear for your safety.
A stretch, but I've always thought it was like this because a vast majority of our leaders are narcissistic. Almost like they create a bubble for themselves to keep themselves protected from being outed themselves. Digging this 2024 trend. A lot of big names are being brought to justice. Hopefully it keeps up.
True. Someone can harass you and do all kinds of things to you, but if you retaliate - you get punished. This was a favorite game of our Narc for years. He would take unsuspecting people and push them till they snapped - then call the police and get them arrested!
@@twovirginiacats3753Well, times, they are a changing. Look up the Apple River Stabbing trial going on now. All the kids that bullied and goaded a middle aged man are now on the stand and telling obvious lies. They got stabbed by the guy defending himself and tried playing the victims. Not working. The veil is slowly lifting for these dirtbags. Finally.
There is a tiny percent of people in general that understand narcissism. It is frustrating.
SO true.
When you take the blow from your shitty therapist when you needed the support most and you have no one to support you--
Get busy with activities, direct your brain to focus on anything, something… gardening, watch movies, better watch Dr. Ramani’s videos on TH-cam! You will get through this and get wiser than ever! Just keep moving.
Praying for all of you.
if you are interested Im starting a healing group :)
@@oppressednolonger1497 Good Idea. People need support or just need someone to listen who are in similar situation. Help each people. 😊
(Help each other)
go on Dr Ramanis forums to find out more, meanwhile stay safe vigilant in healing journey to all the damaged souls, you got this!
thankyou@@BM-7888
The last therapist I had, treated me like a child and leaned in saying... Susan, I can't help you if you don't tell me the truth.. (several times!) I have never lied to a therapist. It was very weird.
That makes me very angre. Where does your therapist get off behaving like that? OK, just had to say that. Hope you got away from them soner rather than later.
They were trying to make a trauma bond. I'm glad you avoided it.
Calling things by their proper name - means we know how to interact with it.
All my NPD survivors and people who are trapped in these relationships, please review Dr. Ramani’s narcissist glossary to help you with what you feel, understand, fear, but have no words to talk about. You are not crazy. It’s really happening. Having the right words will help With recovery
the last therapist i went to was constantly making excuses for my dad and how often he works and how losing a wife is really hard. i felt so gaslighted and i wasn't grasping what she was doing. i wish i could give her a piece of my mind
Typical relationship guidance is actually DETRIMENTAL/DANGEROUS when you're in a narcissistic relationship. I feel all relationship-advice videos and articles should have a disclaimer about the advice not applying to narcissistic relationships. It might actually point a few people in the right direction!!!
At first, my therapist didn't understand i was married to a narcissist. We only had a couple sessions, then i went no contact with the narcissist . And now my therapist has heard everything about the relationship with the ex narc.
He understands now. So grateful for his words of support.
Being mocked by the enablers become automatic out of control
I live in Southern California and have seen at least a half-dozen different therapists over a span of about 20 years. I described my situation accurately each time and not one therapist ever suggested that I was a victim of narcissistic abuse. Even after I read a book about narcissistic abuse and brought it into my sessions first with a psychologist and then with a psychiatrist, these mental health professionals still refused to validate my experiences or make any changes with my therapy.
All licensed mental health professionals should at least be capable of identifying the patterns of narcissistic abuse and able to direct the patient to the appropriate professional. People should not have to self-diagnose themselves and know that they are receiving the wrong therapy.
I have come to accept that finding a therapist who understands narcissistic abuse is nearly impossible and not worth the effort. In fact, it seems that going to therapy is more likely to make matters much worse, especially for men.
I need therapy for my therapy.
I need a do-over.😣
Hahaha 😂
My ex-girlfriend's behavior was very confusing to me until I learned about covert narcissism. Whether or not she would be diagnosed as such doesn't really matter because she displays the behaviors and traits of a covert narcissist. Viewing our relationship from that perspective helps me make sense of it and start healing the trauma bond and moving on.
Dr. Ramani, you are the smartest person, simply the best therapist! Only you understand that topic for 100%.
What I have learned from your videos since September 2023, I want to go back to my past counseling sessions and tell them to get out, as they failed me, and made it as all the hell I went through with narcissist Melford Morris was my fault. Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing and caring Prayers Psalm 1-150🙏
I would say in my world - every authority figure from schools to courts to police and therapists arrogantly caused so much damage. While you are left begging them to understand how damaging NPD is. They are not therapists.
Many times, when dealing with a true, real narcissist, a sociopath, or a psychopath, they’ll turn it back on you, like it’s you, something wrong with.
Wow 18:50. If the other person can't see how they impact you it's not a dance it's manipulation. Just had that fight this week.
Thank God I have a therapist who knows narcicim and she loves you to Dr Ramani. It is still so difficult having a spouse who is so self centered.
This happened to me. The narcissist was literally STEALING $$ from me - not to mention other things- and the therapist was SO nonchalant about it. She didn’t even acknowledge it as a break of trust. I have no idea what the narcissist said to the therapist about me but he was able to finesse her into his way of thinking . I couldn’t understand it!! I called her out on it and she said oh I don’t think it was right was he did. Huh?!?! He literally forged my signature on a document to steal money from me and she said NOTHING. This was back when I didn’t realize that the narcissist was playing me and I was holding out hope that a therapist could help the narcissist could help him understand that what he was doing was WRONG!!! Omg. I actually think the therapist was a narcissist as well! She was definitely aligned with darkness. Just run from these people/ just 🏃
My therapist assisted me initially to set boundaries, to get him to stop his regular gambling and to encourage me to travel solo ( which I did )
She had no idea about the pitfalls of daily living with a narc . The constant lies , gaslighting, invalidation, rudeness, insults, diminishing, minimising, not seeing you as a person but as an object to serve a function- the list continues.
I stopped therapy. Dr Ramani is my daily source of therapy now 😊💖
Omg. I wasted $ and over a year with a therapist who tried 2 help fix ME and never picked up on the real problem ... My 20yr marriage to a narcissistic. I learned about narcissistic abuse on my own.
So frustrating .
Dr Ramani if you read this I hope you know you are saving lives by educating people about narcissism. Before I found this channel I was ready to believe that I was insane out of sheer exhaustion from fighting for my life every single day. I knew deep down something was very very wrong with my family but did not have the right tools to figure out what. Forget narcissism, most people don't even understand trauma.
I recently changed therapists when she told me that when we are offered a different perspective to a situation and we take responsibility for ourselves and our actions that contributed to that situation, we no longer see it as abuse and trauma.
So I'm telling her about how my narc father raged at me when I was 13, in the car doing 170km down the main highway at 2am, locking the car doors. All I could do was curl up in a ball and cry while he screamed abuse at me for over an hour. I told my therapist about how I had told my partner at the time about the abuse I had suffered and that particular incident. I then told my therapist about how abusive that bf turned out to be and how he reinacted that moment when I was 13 by raging at me in the car and not letting me out, purposely driving around and ignoring my pleas to stop the car and let me out.
The therapist asked what my father was raging about. When I told her I had been in trouble 2wks previously, she automatically told me I had to take responsibility for my actions when I had been in trouble and acknowledge that my father was just parenting me and that was my consequence for being in trouble. When I take full responsibility for my own actions, I no longer see my father as abusive in that moment. And her perspective on my then partner doing it was us having a fight and I needed to stop running away from petty conflict.
I walked out of the session when she failed to recognise that I had already taken responsibility for my actions 2wks previously when my mum grounded me for the weekend and we talked about my behaviour. She didnt trap me and scream abuse at me for over an hour and I did my grounding.
Sometimes, therapists can do even more damage than the abuse itself. Your story is a case in point. We're gaslighted by the Narc. We gaslight ourselves. Therapy shouldn't be a place of further abuse. ❤
"So, Ms Therapist; you're telling me that you would take these kinds of actions to parent your child? Oh, you're telling me that it would acceptable for your partner to parent your children by screaming at them while driving 170mph down the road? And if I came in one day and said that was how I had parented MY child, you wouldn't feel madated to report my behavior?"
I find that interesting and informative.
@christelleny my thoughts exactly when she was telling me all this crap. I'd already been gaslight by the narcissist, I wasn't about to gaslight myself into thinking what happened was my fault and he wasn't abusive just to save myself from trauma. Like BAM! And the traumas gone! It didn't magically fix what I was going through, it made it worse. So she had to go.
Thank you so much for validating my experience Dr Ramani. I finally …finally found a trauma informed therapist who understands the narcissist dynamic and it has made all the difference in the world. And your Healing program is absolutely making a difference for me too.
The most terrifying thing is to have a narcissistic therapist.
Good stuff Dr. Ramani! It is what it is, NARCISSISM
This is so real and appropriate for where I am at in my healing. Thank you so much for helping me know how to deal with those questions "why did I stay so long ". Those that know me(us) said "It's about time. Good for you." The latter comment was my confirmation to not feel guilty.
Thank you Dr Ramani. You've helped save many souls, including mine. Validation of experience is key, and few can unless they have experienced it.
In my experience, a therapist doesn't have to understand narcissism to be effective and validating. My therapist didn't 'get it' at first, but through our work, and his openness, we both learned an awful lot.
BINGO!!! Abuse is abuse...and a freaking therapist should know about ABUSE.
But why should you have the double burden of being both the teacher and the patient (or victim)??
@@elcee7800 therapy is always a collaborative process
Ooooh, tricky topic , thanks
This is a great topic be to listen to and understand. i wish our therapist knows this. Sometimes it feels like going to them makes no sense at all.
I've been in & out of therapy for 38 years. I can't tell you how many bad therapists I've had. About 6 years ago, I finally got a good one, and then he retired. My life changed in the brief time that I went to him. My new therapist, which I found after 3 or 4 tries, asked me what he did & what I've tried that helped. I couldn't even say. He just understood. He was in my corner. My theory is that he dealt with a narcissist in his past, probably in his family. Every time I think this one gets it, she says something that makes me think she doesn't really get it. Maybe a therapist can learn about it or read about it, but if they've never been a victim, it's really hard to understand. That's my guess. There's a big difference between being treated for low self-esteem & anxiety & being gaslit, the thing that causes it.
Yes one said “I don’t like labels “.. I called them on it because nobody had issues saying someone is depressed or bipolar or schizophrenic or aggressive or anything else but “don’t use the word narcissist” ?? 🤔🤯they definitely need to be trained in this subject so as not to invalidate victims further who go for help
A therapist told me to stop poking the narcissist and stop bringing up the past, because what good does it do😮is there a button? I would love to forget the past!!!
Well, hopefully therapists now understand a bit more because narcissism is being explained through channels like yours. I mean, I had a narcissistic therapist who literally would call me by my middle name instead of my actual name(that was a red flag). I think after a MONTH of her playing musical meds (I did tell her politely not to switch my meds and to leave them alone), when she decided to play musical meds, it felt as if I was having my first mental health breakdown for the first time again. There was a lot of discrepancies and in the first session I picked up on her her energy and I had (no choice with this person as a therapist), one so when I went to reschedule an appointment, I phoned her up, and she told me in a flat cold tone, "I'm leaving the country and I don't know when I'm coming back," HOWEVER, NOW I do have a therapist who actually listens to me and understands where I'm coming from. I've actually recommended Dr. Ramani's book to my therapist, and I'm pretty sure she's going to pick up a copy.
What about a therapist who says “I don’t know that he’s a narcissist because I haven’t met him, and you’re villainizing him”? I experienced this after 2 years with this therapist after I told her the previous therapist said the same. It’s hard to find a therapist who truly has knowledge and understanding about trauma bond, cognitive dissonance, and narcissism. Are there any therapists out there who is safe??
The N easily manipulated my second therapist.
The one I have now, he's helped so much with going no contact and low contact. I'm so lucky.
“It takes two to tango”actually woke me up when my doctor said it, as I was taking all the blame in my scape goat role. It also means to me that I don’t need to engage in the bullcrap.
I had a therapist ask me lots of questions about my emotional abuse from my ex narcissist husband. I was looking for help for me and my two boys. She advised me to have therapy with our two sons and him. In our first appointment, she wanted to meet with my narcissist ex-husband 1st and asked me to go take my time at the park with my son's. Well, I came back, and she asked me to meet with me to tell me my ex was the way he was because my ex-husband's father abounded him at a young age. And he didn't know how to be a father or a good partner because of that. In my head, I think I knew that. I knew write away, the therapist wasn't going to be able to help me and my two boys.
How did my narcissist husband fake it for 19 years, and suddenly, his mask fell off. Well, because his a narcissist!
I waited 5 months for an appointment, just to be gaslighted by my therapist. He told me I should've just left my family if it had been that bad. He also claimed I have OCD and should just learn to relax.
When you are the only person in the relationship that ever tries anything to work on the relationship such as reading or going to therapy or talking to your partner and the other person dismisses your efforts or makes fun of therapy then you are not in a good relationship with a good person and it does not change.
I was told for 20 years by different therapists that I just needed to try harder
I am glad that my therapist happens to understand narcissism. He was a victim of narcissistic abuse and did extensive studying on it. He was the very first to notice and mention my now ex was displaying narcissistic behavior.
How about being asked to do an intake history and then told that you're lying! Like yeah you know what I have nothing better to do than pay you a few hundred dollars an hour to to lie about my life history and be insulted.
Recently, I was watching a prominent news channel whereby the commentators were specifically told by the station they cannot use the word ''Narcissism or Narcissist' while on the air. Why do some prefer that people with the know-how and the ability to research ie. therapists and those with a voice to communicate about the topic ie. media choose to keep their heads buried in the sand? The world needs to know because this topic is very real. Similar to 50 years ago when a woman had bruises and black eyes on her face, the abuser would speak up and say she had a bad fall.
Because Narkys run the justice system and government and economy. That's why. Look around and you'll see the rampant narcissism in every practice, industry, and institution in America.
Was it FOX? Of course they won't let the concept of Narkiness be spread. It would expose their darling DJT.
I had it happen where I started doing couples counseling w/ my girlfriend and her therapist and the therapist sided w/ my girlfriend by saying I just have to accept her and her backstory. Needless to say I never saw the therapist again and I walked out of the relationship 2 weeks later.
My therapist told me that my dad who sexually abused me, stole my life savings, spread rumors, gaslit and held me at gunpoint loves me and I should move back home.
Oh ffs! 💕
RUN
Dr. I’m watching you on NBC News Daily as we speak! ❤
I had an arrogant psychiatrist get angry at me at the mention of psychological abuse… which was the most ironic thing in the world to me. He cut me off and screamed at me so loudly during the appointment that I terminated the rest of my sessions with him and went somewhere else. Never in my life had I been so belittled before by a doctor. It was astounding yet scary to me. He didn’t get it at all.
Telling people they're at fault for abuse because "it takes two to tango" is the biggest lie narcissists & enablers spread.
It's so important that therapists get narcissistic abuse and the disorder itself. I know someone who had to set boundaries with a narcissist who tried to infiltrate her life. That therapist said she's got "anxious attachment."
I relate to you saying how reading relationship advice is only suitable if you're in a masochistic mood.
I had a therapist during the prime of my PTSD. I was explaining to her how I began being excluded, belittled, humiliated and to top it off, the narc managed to get everyone on his side and it bothered me because it felt unfair and cruel. The therapist then said which still angers me to this day: "It sounds like you are jealous of him" Then went on to say that she was happy for him that he was blessed. I've not gotten therapy ever since and its been 7 years. Dr Ramani and the man from "Surviving Narcissism" have helped me tremendously.
I was seeing a therapist and she at first wanted to take me as an L&I patient under the Victims Compensation program. After I started seeing her she mentioned how it's too much paperwork and a hassle. I then knew that she wasn't the right therapist for me. I'm still dealing with getting her to understand that the state will be compensating her for the co-pay and I've had to send in the billing from her and my EOB statements. It's awful on top of trying to heal from the abuse of the past relationship. Now I'm in a trauma group that doesn't exist for someone who just cares about the money but they actually care about my healing. What a difference. I gave up on therapy after dealing with my former therapist.
I So Thank God for who you are Dr. Ramani and that you care for people like me in order to help all of us heal!! 🙏🏾 Thank You! 💐
This is such a thorny subject. I am so very scarred from my attempts to mend the relationship with my mother via therapy. I ended up being ganged up on, the therapist taking her side. The person I saw by myself, simply gave me pills to numb the pain. He gave me the mantra: I am feeling calm. It does not help to have this type of balm over something that continues to burn you over time.
Boundaries is hard to set once we walk into a doctor’s office, someone “in authority,” ie, you need to be like a naked person infront of a stranger that wants to pick, and poke, and still not understand your situation.
22:39 our therapist told me I have no right to my husband’s desires and thoughts. She said that he is allowed to look at other women and be the porn addict he’s become. That I need to just only focus on myself alone and let him be and only if I discover he is actually cheating with a real person can I be upset by his behavior.
I threw my arms up then. I’m soooo alone here!
Run away from that so called therapist 😮
I would have called her out about that. It s not ok when another woman therapist demonstrates such a blatant lack of empathy.
Porn is absolutely infidelity. Porn is like a sex worker just by film. Pointless therapist.
What a crappy therapist. You could print out this thread, and send it to her. Anonymously. On a postcard, so everyone who delivers and handles can see.
🤣insane
You would beat any attorney I could ever get in a courtroom, talking about this to the divorce judge.... describing my ex to-be.
While many don't understand it .. some are learning (as we are) what it is .. and then there are those therapists who ARE narcissists themselves. :O I Have NO DOUBT I've met at least 1.
She ""TOld Me'' *In a condescending way* She said: "You have to understand > Everyone has narcissitic traits. Everyone Lies. Then anotehr person in her office started talking over me And this ""therapist"> Told Me that ""Takling over people happens .. and I needed to be more patient . *Gaslight much? .. She was supposed to be doing an ""intake"" on me back in the fall of the year > NO FKN WAY< Talk about Red Flags!!! I am So fortunate to have found Dr. Ramani on here And a great therapist in person **So far so good :D
I am Feeling and Behaving like I'm ALIVE Again! :D
Congratulations on the wonderful nyt book review of your book!!!!
I love it when you make me laugh, Dr. Ramani. It stops my tendency to go through the same old worn out paths that I know did not and will never work. Thank you! ❤