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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video I was checking a system for a customer, and found a new a completely new (to me) start device wired in just like a super boost, but much smaller! #hvacguy #hvac #hvaclife #airconditioner #heatpump #hvactechnician #furnace #hvacinstall #hvactrainingvideos #hvactroubleshooting @SealedUnitPartsCo @FieldpieceProducts #hvacknights @HVACKnights
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Nordyne Nortek PTRC, MZ92D-40RN PTRC = variable resistor based on temp.
Yup. PTCR. Wired in parallel to the run capacitor. For less than a half second after contactor is closed and while it is cool, it has very low resistance and the starting current passes through the PTCR and the start winding because they are in series. The starting current can actually bypass the run capacitor (overcoming the cap's capacitive reactance) and high starting inrush current can pass through the PTCR and start winding for more starting power. In that half second, its temp rises along with it resistance, which stops the current flowing through it. By now, the PSC motor has come up to speed. Tthe PTCR stays hot until the contactor opens, essentially keeping itself out of the circuit with its extremely high resistance, and after a few minutes to cool, it should be good to go for the next starting cycle. Easy to check with ohmmeter at ambient temp. Just be careful not to touch it when the compressor is running b/c it gets really hot (>200F)
Exactomundo! Excellent explanation. This is a clever device applied to the physics of the motor. And, it works great!
@@craigpierce7996 It only works great in cool climates. Here in Southern AZ, it doesn't cool off enough between compressor runs to offer a good amount of starting power after a 5 minute cool down. When ambient is 115°F and the condenser unit is blowing air much hotter than that, the compartment housing the guts of the unit including the PTCR gets really hot. Run caps last 5-6 years or so here. Poor quality ones may only last 3. Flooded lead acid car batteries last 2-3 years here just to give you an idea of how drastically different the extreme summer ambient temps affect things like this.
Imagine for a moment that you have an exterior 410a scroll compressor unit on the ground outside with a bit of a long-ish line set going 20 feet up into the attic crawlspace and it has a hard shutoff TXV. The house is a bit old, fairly large, and in an old neighborhood with old pole pigs that aren't offering as much amperage margins as they did decades ago, so the power service has a fairly serious voltage drop during high amp draw events. A PTCR that can't cool back down enough to offer the right amount of starting current basically acts like it isn't even there at all. That scroll is going to take forever to start (speaking in terms relative to the desired time to start a compressor and get off LRA/FLA) and the lights in the house are going to dim noticeably for half or 3/4ths of a second. Voltage may actually dip enough to cause a brownout in the home and cause things like a modem or router to reset or a desktop computer or a stove or washing machine to reset and stop running the cooking or washing cycle that the occupants are counting on it finishing it. :( A proper starting capacitor sized exactly per compressor manufacturer specification with a proper OE current sensing relay is really required in this situation. The compressor will not last nearly as long without one as compared to having one installed and regularly maintained. That extra phase shift and extra power on tap gets that compressor moving and makes for much less stress on the windings and much less heat generated with each start. The lights won't dim and the appliances won't reset anymore. This situation would also benefit greatly from a sequencer setup that separates startup of the condenser fan and the compressor by 5-10 seconds to reduce the unit's overall draw on the electrical service. 👍
@@mannys9130 I lived in Parker, AZ for a short spell down along the river, north of the road over. We had a 60' double-wide and ended up with 2, 3-1/3 ton units on it! It gets hot, for sure... That A/C is a life line. Great explanation BTW! A major drawback as you mentioned is high ambient temps for a PTCR. Under those conditions, power bills are going to balloon up. I'm in Tulsa, OK now, still battling the heat!
I had the same experience once. We were given shore leave in San Diego. Walking downtown, a buxom woman leaned out a window and offered me "something that I'd never had before". I said, "whats that, a Studebaker?"
The device is a Positive Temperature Coefficient device used in the place of a capacitor, when device is cool, resistance is low and current flows to start winding to get motor started, but the inflow of current causes resistance of device to increase, and stays in circuit. Next time use your ohm meter and measure resistance before start, and then measure after start. Worked with them in the late 1970’s, back then they were cylindrical in shape. They are inexpensive but i hang my hat on a start potential relay and start capacitor every time.
It's A FLUX CAPACITOR, IT LIFTS THE AC OF THE GROUND WHEN THE FAN REACHES 88 MPH. THAT'S WHY THE PLUMBERS STRAP IS ON THE UNIT. TO KEEP IT FROM TIME WORPING TO THE FUTURE.
That is only on the Deloreans.
I always hook up an infra red franistat in parallel with the flux capacitor, so the duplexer relay will kick in without melting down the Timken isolator buss bar.
Yeah... so... I suggest adding more fluid to the device while it's accessible just to be safe.
Hey Curtis it’s a PTCR . Positive temp coefficient resister. Bard uses those too . Thanks for the video 👍
Way back in the old TV world, it would have been called a "surgister." It was to reduce the surge current to the vacuum tube's liniments.
Ever take a hard-start kit apart?
What I'd like to see would be some inexpensive soft start kits. I think they usually run about $300.
Jim
Very interesting! Thanks! Love the comments from other Techs too!
The old positive coefficient start device! Now in a black box.
In the 80's those ceramic relays were popular on small compressors, the problem is when that relay opens it is hot, and will close again when it cools off .
Hello 👋 to your Buddy, Riley. 👍🙏
Another nice job. Hay Reily. I hope your wife is doing better.
Yes, thank you
I immediately assumed something for a soft start
Hey Curtis!
What’s up
First. I hope your wife is feeling much better. Great investigative work figuring out what that module could be. Always great to learn new things.
First two numbers in the serial number are year next two are week . 👍🇨🇦
Start assist
Maybe an inrush current limiter, like what are commonly used on refrigerator compressors and typically referred to as a "start relay".
Never seen one either great job 👍👍👍
Some old units back in the day use a relay on the start caps. When I 1st saw it in this video I said its a relay just by looking at it. Roush is correct relay.
That's easy that's the uhm, you know..flux capacitor solid state turbo torque easy hard soft start 2000!
That's funny 😅
that condenser stand up to code?😂 good job bro
Score!! the ole ptcr…🤷🏼♂️ just a shot in the dark 🤣
It’s a factory hard start…most likely a 40…a lot of those MH units attached to the end of the trailor have those…the older ones were round with a wire at each end…and the unit is the second week of 2017
That was concise. Imagine you knew the secrets of the universe and told us in the same amount of words
@@89tin now reread it in the voice of Morgan Freeman…🤣
Nortek Nordyne requirement for Samsung rotary compressor
that is a PTCR
I'd wager this is the answer.
Those PTCR's are usually used in window shakers, es una casa de un albanil for los ladrillos extra que no uso en su trabajo.
Cant find those numbers anywhere. But paulinator216 seems right.... a positive temperature coefficient resistor for single phase motors
Is it like one of those start thermistor
Carrier used to have the old PTC Compressor Start Assist, 3 wire to the run capacitor and they used to catch fire a lot. Anytime I'd run across one, I'd replace it with a 5-2-1 relay and start capacitor.
Like someone said, PTCR. Here's one I found very similar: repl-ptcr-mz92d-40rn-632691r
Maybe it's a current sense regulator or auto reset breaker when high current is sensed for long period of time.
They are junk. When nortek sends warranty compressor they include a real start kit in the box.
Also that unit was made February 2017
PTRC same thing has start assist.
You ought to see a thermistor thats burned
In olden times they used to be white and sort of oval. Cheap factory hard start.
Looks like yours a 2017 modle if I saw numbers right
Hi Curtis!!!
What's up?
@@HVACGUY nmu
Down here it may be called Start Assist Cap. Normally tgey overheat so we get them out of the system when the Ac wont start.😂😂
PTC relay. Out here, they fail because it will not reset due to our 100°+ temps. We pull them and install a hard start kit, problem solved.
They are very common in ice machines, cool environment.
Nice video.
Interesting high mounting for the condenser unit. Does the area flood?
Does it show on the wiring schematic
I believe that Carrier use to put these devices in their condensing units a long time ago. It’s a poor man’s hard start.
I think it’s a capacitor for a refrigerator or freezer which if it has the required uf should work fine
It’s not a capacitor, gotta watch the whole video. Shows no mfd, but still reduces inrush by 20 amps
it could be a booster. they got a young lady on youtube that is a hvac. you may know who i'am talking about. with love.
That’s a hecking refrigerator run capacitor:S
I've seen similar ptrc's in old goodman units. I usually find them exploded, lol.
Have you come across any hair color stains with soft start installed them yet
As other guy mention cylindrical in shape PTCR they got so hot is not funny...i normally Remove a bunch of them so i can make the Comp Run Customer in hot weather can not wait till part cool down and allow Comp to Run ....is our way to speed AC calls every summer
Its doohicky that probably does nothing.enjoyed the video
Works like a relay.
According to the Model Number, this is an Unbranded unit by Nordyne, 14 SEER Builders Series Split System AC Unit. The serial number contains the manufacturer date. According to the web site, the 4th and 5th digits of the Serial Number are the Year of manufacture, and the 6th and 7th digits are the Month of manufacture. If you use your camera to view the QR Code on the side of the unit just under the inspection panel on the left side of the Cap, it will bring up a link to the web site for the manuals for the unit.
What is it?
17th week of 2002
Hey Curtis greetings from S Fl if i kno what it is i ll say but if i dont i wont comment
It sends voltage to the start windings to help it start and cuts out afterwards.
Interesting vid Curtis, i'll leave it to the experts, whether to leave it there or remove it 🤔 Au
Cool video - Yes, Carrier has been using a similar PTC since the 80s, but it's a beefier one, I have the TotalLine replacement P421-4006 and it says it's wired as 25ohms, (Carrier's has 2 PTCs that can be wired in Parallel) it is approximately equivalent to a Start Cap of 45uf, so it's pretty small, but it does work for most installations. I know lots of folks pull them out and replace with relay and start cap. I only had a few burn up...they work ok. So the OEM part is pretty expensive so why not just put in a 5-2-1 right?? Thanks for posting.
OEM part is $9.00.
Enjoyable video, as usual. Why is your house's siding so splotchy colored? Thanks
It’s Cedar. Was stained, then painted. I keep putting off a pressure washing then trying to figure out what to do. But, I kinda like the antique look it has now.
Looked camo to me.
It’s a start resister. Used to bleed off residual voltage in a start capacitor.
PTCR
So..is that a miniature hard start device??
Get a Preston guide. Determines all makes and ages of equipment.
Looks like some plumber's got drunk and ran plumber strap over the top of ac, like a hurricane strap.
Or earthquake strap Some of that HUD requirements i suppose lol
Wire diagram should give a name to it . Start assist
It's the same starter as Thay use on a refrigerator it's a start compositor.
It’s a flux capacitor
Nope. Showed no mfd
Just took my wife to ER yesterday, she was feeling faint, had COVID last week but tested negative on Tuesday, hospital said she was still positive. Maybe a difference between home test and hospital test, feeling better today. Had a family reunion and several got COVID about 4 days after exposure. Hope your wife gets better
quit believing in the mainstream narrative and use your own brain... covid was planned long ago. watch the dead zone TV series episode "plague"
That’s a 2017 unit
I should have read the comments
Thermistor
A soft start, it warms up and cuts out.
I would never put that on wood put it on blocks
Wood on top of angle iron and is round 3 or 4 feet above the ground.
Be sure to let the PTCR cool down before testing.
That piece of angle iron is dangerous sticking out like that.
Beats me, kind of small for a capacitor, maybe a resistor of some sort. I don't know why you would need resistance there, especially since there is no circuit board. Heck, what do I know? I'm sure one of these guys will know, some of them are pretty with it when it comes to those things.
👍👍😊😊
Here is a video on how that thing works. th-cam.com/video/s0TzajhoA2Y/w-d-xo.html. I used the QR code inside the unit in your video to get the documentation for it and researched the part number.
Simple way to determine what it is, look at the wiring schematic/legend. 🤔
Years ago I found one on a older carrier unit. It looked different but when I looked at schematic it was called a thermistor.
Idk
Nordyne nortec serial number tell maufacture date 4th and 5th pace year 6th and 7th month so q5f1004 would b 2010 April hope your wife gets better have a good day
4th 5th number month 6th 7th number year
They are somewhat like the pull in/drop out start relay function but they are based on heat vs resistance. They can actually "pop" blowing up if they were continually started over and over again. They had to coll down again before attempting to restart the compression. In my opinion one of the worse "inventions" of out trade.
Throw that ptcr away and use a hard start kit