Here's Why Your 0-60 MPH Time Sucks Compared To The Magazines + C43 AMG Results After One Repair
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2018
- Here's why my 302 horsepower V8 power C43 AMG was so slow and how I fixed it. We also retest 0-60 mph after just one simple modification/repair, and we go over the truth about how magazines get their performance test results and why you shouldn't worry too much if your 0-60 mph results suck.
Here is the Motor Trend article.
www.motortrend.com/news/motor...
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Post up any 0-60 MPH results you have.
LegitStreetCars I think you should close the windows to get more aerodynamic
What about using different wheels and tires? Could you do some weight reduction? Also what about the exhaust setup? And can you try adding some oil catch cans to the pvc system, these engines have alot of blow by. What if you decarbonize the engine and clean throttle body then retest to see if that helps performance? I also lost power in my m113 v8 from a missing intake tube and alot of carbon buildup in my intake manifold.
love your Videos, wish the best from Hungary
LegitStreetCars My 2007 C230 gets to 60 in around 8 seconds
My 2001 clk55 get low 5, I was running the stock 17s and producing 5.5, 5.6 with a 5.1 I have larger AMG 18s with 285 on the rear now getting consistent 5.1 with the very best of a 4.89 it has 150k miles on it and pulls hard,
1:58 i just want to take a moment to appreciate that genius idea of taping the gauge to the windshield. I actually had to laugh a little.
It's an industry secret, its the only way we can get fuel pressure readings while driving, some guys shove it under a wiper.
Under the wiper is the ticket for most of us that do this a bunch.
Such a great channel. Great video and thanks for the commitment to great content. It shows. Most channels would had made like 5 videos to cover this. I dislike that a lot. Thanks!! You make one great video with all the information, that's fantastic.
jorge irizarry Thanks so much Jorge.
Alex
I'm not super into cars but this one keeps me coming back. Like, checking once a month since that first video. Can't wait to see what you do to it next.
Congrats to the C43 for passing the fuel pressure and compression tests with flying colors! One thought about 0-60 times: some of the magazines (MT and R&T have confirmed it) apply the “1 foot rollout” they use in 1/4 mile times to 0-60 as well. That makes the cars and the test drivers look heroic by shaving a few tenths off acceleration times. The 6.1 benchmark might be closer to 6.4 without the rollout correction.
Jacob Miller Very very good point. Thanks for posting!
Alex
As usual awesome video. I love how scientific you run your tests!
Thanks!!
This guys videos are absolutely phenomenal. Im about to pick up my first AMG car in a couple weeks 98 C43 with two tone interior. Maybe I can stop by your shop to do a review.
You produce some of the best put-together videos, man! Always enjoy watching. Thank you. Diehard Mercedes guy here too :)
This is why I've left my CLS55's air intake factory.........the design is already great, would rather spend $ on longtubes, gas and tires. Great vid Alex
MrSnowford so what’s your intake vacuum?
I've got a 2011 C220D manual. We have recently had a run of 30 degrees C weather in the UK. You can really feel the power difference in the evenings when it's a lot cooler compared to the high daytime temps. Great vid as always😁
Okay. I just pulled up these figures from memory and experience in dealerships without seeing the improvement your cold air intake system made. Yet even with these awesome mods., it still corresponds to what I know, in fact, you’re doing better than the stock AMG. Good for you, and I thank you for teaching me more. It empowers me toward owning another classic Mercedes-Benz again. :-)
That transition to the morning was sleek and early morning 0-60 is a great was to start the day in Chicago. Be safe out there man
Really enjoyed the video. As a pilot, I can confirm that temperature plays a huge role and aircraft engine manufactures perform significant testing to determine aircraft performance at different temperatures and pressures. Take off calculations and climb performance often vary by a significant margin depending on temperature alone.
Really great information. Thanks for sharing.
Wow I didn't realise air temp and humidity would make that much of a difference in a modern computer controlled car/engine! Great and interesting video Alex 👍
Great video! Every 7 deg. F increase in intake temp reduces output by about 1 hp.
This really makes me want to go get the box to make my air filter a bit more "cold air intake" esque. Great video!
Fun video Alex! Maybe throw some new summer tires on the back?
Brilliant, entertaining and informative. Love this channel.
Thanks so much!!
Alex
Clean the MAF sensor! A dirty MAF sensor kills acceleration and lowers fuel economy. Reset the ECU. Also as mentioned by another change the oil in the engine and transmission and replace thw engine air filter. While you're compression testing why wouldn't you replace the sparkplugs?
Zen Den I didn't change them purposely in order to conduct this test. I put about a 15 second clip in this video where you can see all the parts that I'll be replacing. Basically a full tune up and a cleaning of the maf and TB.
LegitStreetCars
Thanks. Interested to see if the MAF sensor was dirty and if a clean makes a noticeable difference on this model. It certainly did on my Lexus. Cheers.
50 degrees out + new oil and filter + new MAF + New air filter and OEM air box/intake + new spark plugs = 6.3 sec time
+1 on the transmission fluid change. I have recently had my ML270 gearbox completely flushed and it eliminated any hesitation in gear changes but it also pulls away off the line better.
what is MAF
Love the videos on your AMG perticularly the ones about your c43. Thats why im a platinum member for life
Thanks so much Don. Really means a lot.
Alex
I like your vids because they are relative to the real world and your average "user" experience, keep going, good work :) Did you try it with the fully TC off btw, or is this another Merc with a TC which you are not able to fully turn off ?
Try reseting transmission adaptations with sds. I struggled with low end torque with my C43 which has195k miles. The engine performed great over 3k rpm but never performed well at low rpm. After changing all sensors, resetting engine adaptations numerous times and a timing chain, trans adaptation reset made the biggest improvement by far. Great video!
After the tune up I'll reset all adaptations and retest. Thanks so much for watching.
In Colorado, we usually have low humidity and cool air - but the altitude kills those advantages.
My C36 AMG probably is doing the same or maybe slower than this C43, but unfortunately I don't have VBOX to check it out...but I'm gonna try with an OBDII and Torque PRO app...I'll post it for you...great vid Alex...
Another great video, Thank you! By chance, did you look into the o-ring failure issue on the oil pan pick up tube in your other two AMG's? That looks like a great tutorial and it's a $4.00 engine killer. It would be cool to see what a really old one looks like compared to a new one (how long it takes them to fail from heat cycling). Thanks again!
I just subscribed, 1 because you voiced my concerns. 2 because you tested your engine. And yes hot air will affect performance. However if that's a dry nitrous kit you have, it wouldn't matter since nitrous adds air molecules and changes intake charge temp. ;) colder.
Really interesting and great video!
The heat and humidity deff has a lot of influence on the end time you get. I guess by recording actual numbers you can really see by how much. Just think about going for a run in 50 degree weather vs. 90 degrees and 97% humidity....it's like night and day, and the same for car performance. That is one nice thing about living in Cali, no humidity and it's usually cooler at night. About 7 years ago in Pennsylvania when I had my 1993 rx7, it was really easy to notice a difference in the way it drove, idled, and how it sounded depending on the temperature and humidity. It's fair to conclude that the older a car is, the more likely the temp./humidity will effect it even more.
Very cool, thanks for doing this test. Didn't think a NA engine was affected that badly with air temp/humidity. Also maybe this video will stop people from f@cking with their OEM intake systems. Pretty sure OEM's spend millions in development on that stuff. Love the channel.
I don't have any fancy data loggers, but this is cool to see verification of what I can feel. I drive a 03 SVT Focus, which comes factory with a decent cold air induction system. I can dramatically feel a difference between mid day heat and humidity and night time cool and dry driving. Noticable difference in the seat dyno!
Benjamin Turner Most of us know heat and humidity plays a big factory but it was a lot of fun and interesting to see exactly how much. Thanks for watching.
I guess I was surprised as to how much of a difference it makes! I knew it did make a difference, but honestly never thought it would be full second(s) off 0-60 times! As always, great video! I'm not a huge Mercedes guy myself, but still enjoy watching your stuff. They're a little hoity-toity for me haha.
glad you posted this cause real world conditions effect everything.
One thing what could hold few horses is worn out MAF. It coul be with in spec so it doesn't trigger a code but could still be out of optimum range. Bosch for example says MAF shoul be changed in every 160k km.
Good job on the testing. The car runs really well. Hopefully whoever buys this regardless of the cars worth they fix up that exterior. N/A motors just are more consistent. If this was my e55 that 0-60 would just get much worse through each run, heat soak.
Nicely done and it shows just how far off a car can be from quoted values.
Great video Alex!!!
Can’t wait to run mine in the winter here in Arizona when it’s super cool and dry.
We once owned a 1993 300E 2.8. We purchased it with 102k miles on it. I tuned it with new plugs, Mobil 1, new ATF and filter, as well as new filters all around. On my way to work one time in the Fall (I live in Dayton), I used my cell phone to time it on a 0-60 run and achieved a time of approx. 7 secs. Not bad. That DOHC 2.8L engine with about 193HP was quite fun.
I've not yet tried our newer 2013( M276) C300 4Matic car, but it is quite spirited for a V-6. I will need to remove the charcoal filter on the engine air cleaner which seemingly blocks a lot of airflow (it was a NY car new). Nor, have I tried our 1998 SLK230 Kompressor. Both cars seem to have cold air intakes (I remember when they were called "Ram Air") on the front crossmember. Never really thought much about getting a time on either car. I will try it the next time I'm on an open road.
I’m so glad you did these tests, Thank you!
Wouldn’t have guessed that air temp makes that much of a difference. Almost made me think you’d need an intercooler for this NA engine 😂
Looking forward to the NOZ kit!
FYI they only count the time after 1 foot as well, it has to do with the way dragstrips work so it will match what they tell you and what you get at the strip. That can easily account for a half second. And a rear alignment can make a massive difference at launch, i noticed that there's a lot of slipping going on. A MK3 Supra i had back in the day had 245/45/16's on stock rims and hooked very VERY well after i very slightly adjusted the toe out on the rear with an estimate of low 300hp to the wheels and did about 5 seconds flat (less with warmed up tires, but never measured that) with a GPS 0-60 machine i borrowed. The way things wear you might have toe in on the rear.
Also, it might take some time for long term fuel trim to adjust for cooler intake temperatures and also for spark advance. I don't know how long it was driven before tests were done so that could be a mute point.
Got my c55 around the same time as you, picked it up for CA and drive it to AZ. The car definitely feels like it is missing some hp when it is 110 degrees outside! Heat sucks hp!
My w221 S550 M273 gets like 5.8-6.0 0-60 in the summer and lower 5’s in the winter. More like 5.4-5.6 in the winter. Sometimes faster than rated by MB which is 5.4.
Would like to test -20 celcius vs +20 celcius 0-100 time but cant because snow = no grip
Yet another awesome video.
Consistent 0-60 times are also indicative of consistent launch technique, so nice work there Alex!
Great episode!
I have a couple of things on my mind that i think would give you different results.
First, At what speed do aerodynamics come into play? If 0-60 times are impacted by aerodynamic desgin then I would say those aftermarket bumpers and missing under-body plastic covers/pans would slow you down. The rear bumper cover could even act as a parachute if aerodynamic testing is not part of the design process.
Second, I don't know if Motor Trend used this method but I've heard that standard procedure is to exclude the first foot of the tire rolling out from a dead stop. I'm sure if you google it, the testing procedure will come up.
EDIT:::: I did a little research and Motor Trend does use that method and your Vbox should have a box to check off that includes the rollout calculation. Did you use it??
And THIRD, probably doesn't matter in this case but ill throw it out there. Motor oil, gearbox oil/ATF and differential oil is all brought up to temp in the professional drag racing world to reduce the drag that thick fluids create in diffs and trannys. That might help in the top fuel world but I don't know how much that impacts street cars.
What do ya think???
Andreas
My 96 C280 feels noticeably slower in hot weather, and when the engine bay is heat soaked then it's very noticeable. I was wondering if wrapping the box and piping would help, consulting the internet results in widely different opinions regarding that.
If you heat wrap the intakes it does help with soaking. Although the best way to help make power is to spray a fine water/meth mix into the intake from a cool place
I am curious if the gains came from the cold air intake or the forced air induction. In other words, did forcing more air through the MAF sensor into the engine intake cause the computer to feed more fuel to the engine, thereby generating more power and lower 0 to 60 mph times? In either case, thanks for the hard work that goes into creating amazing content!
I have a 99 C43 too. I get better pulls in winter mode instead of sport which starts you in second gear and change rev some. Also find that drive four is better for 0-60 times than drive 5.
If you're getting better times pulling away from a dead stop in second... then there's something drastically wrong with your car.
I think all that bondo makes it loose that 1 second..
Brilliant!
lose*
And its an automatic.
I had an slk230 once that never felt as fast as it should. For me it turned out to be the MAF sensor. There was an oilchatcher return to the airbox that coated the maf with a film of oil. It ran better when i cleaned the maf and much better when I replaced it. Have had maf sensor problems on many cars, when it´s a bit of performance is the first problem...
I don't know if someone already mentioned that or not but I think that with the closed driver window you cloud got a better results
Magazines also use something called Rollout, which doesn't take into account the first 12' (30cm) of distance covered, with a good launch this can drop times by 3/10th of a second.
Great video !!!
A vibrant and loud color wrap seems like a fun thing to do to this thing.
Stock 1995 SL500 5.8s shifting by hand. It has this crazy low gear when you pull the shifter all the way back and slide it to the right.
Definitely lower temperature, i have the scorpion intakes on my 65 which pull engine bay air and it doesn’t pull any power, when your driving along theres quite a bit of airflow in the engine bay
Our best quarter-mile time in Texas heat earlier this spring was 15.27 @ 94 mph in our 1998 C43
All that stuff about ambient temp and humidity correction was interesting. Do they do any kind of correction for altitude?
A car tested at sea level will be getting much denser air than a car that is 1000ft up in the hills etc. so performance will also differ accordingly.
I love that gen of e320 that ur AMG got beat by
I am wondering is there a chance to swap out the rear end gears like the Camaro and the Mustang and majority of trucks as well. that might help with the times. also is there a lsd for the rear that might help
Next measurement how many tens of a second does a closed window save on 0 - 60 vs an open window! Can't believe you are almost at a 💯k subs!
Yea man, crazy!!
Need to run a more advanced data logger that connects via obd2 to measure timing and see how much timing is being pulled. Logging afr would be helpful too but you'd need a wideband o2 sensor for that.
2003 W163 ML500 2nd cat delete and Flowmaster muffler. Plus drop 200lbs (exhaust spare tire Jack seat) weight reduction.
55 degrees 0-60 5.9 /5.8 sec every time. All day long. Also us a Vbox. Don’t know humidity but, always low in Pennsylvania
your visco couppler , is it fine / useful ? you got 2 pusher fans for cooling your radiator. a good cheap mod is to delete the cooling fan and rewire the 2 pusherfans to cool when driving slowly. on high speed you don't need fan powwered cooling at all :) . you lose less powwer and gain powwer / torque across the band.
Hey Alex I think you might need some new rear performance tires, see if that makes a difference.
were some of the testers still using 5th wheels for their test back in 1999?
Another great video. After following this series I'm think I'm getting a used Benz. Had BMWs and after learning about the head gasket issues w/them and the aluminum block issue with the head bolts pulling out them think I'm done. Thanks.
Alpha Ghost Get a clean mb older than 1999 and you'll have a tank that, with regular maintenance, will that will last you forever.
Funny thing is my c55 had a hole on one of those intake tubes, I replaced it and felt the power increase right away. Posted my experience on one of the benz forums and everybody thought I was talking out of my ass.
Another thing you're missing is the fan shroud - at 2:30 you can see the bare engine driven fan spinning behind the radiator.
A fan without a shroud is very inefficient, as it won't pull air effectively through the radiator core. This can cause the engine temp to be higher, and then your fan clutch locks, and saps a lot of hp.
Google C43 fan shroud and you'll see the plastic piece.
Have you tried new plugs,new air and fuel filter and have you used the bg 3 part fuel system cleaner? I've worked at a benz dealership and they always used the stuff and I still put a can of 44k in all my cars.
Tom M Not yet but its getting a bunch of maintenance before nitrous
is it the m113 bottom end? i’m guessing so by the sound and since it’s a 99’ 4.3. may wanna check valve cover gaskets, chain tensioner and chain.
I’d reset the adaptations, transmission and engine. Make sure your car is in summer mode not winter mode. And do manual shifts. Oh btw I have a clk 430 same motor as you just the 43 is differently tuned
W205 C43 Estate with stage 1.5 , 3.50 seconds flat-0-60. AhEmGee on Dragy leaderboard.
Also you need a more revs on the launch, power brake it a little more .
Most sports motorbikes will use a ram air intake design which uses Bernoulli's theory to increase air intake exponential to the relative speed of the bike (I'm sure some anoraks will word it better but I'm being lazy.) The air intake is directly faced in line with the airflow.
In order to take full advantage of this however, the airbox needs to be large in order for induction system to make use of it.
I'm surprised Motortrend says forced induction motors are not affected. My tuned Saab 9-3 2.8T definitely feels faster on cooler days, like today for instance it's 2C (35F) where I live and it pulled like a monster. I wonder what the C43 would do in 35F.
Is there a kit you recommend that will direct fit onto a Mercedes? I just bought a E500 and want to do a compression test.
check ur breathing in and breathing out. install highflow k&N filter. check the catalytic converters. primary and secondary one, delete the secondary one. you will get then higher breathing out flow with least pressure drop in ur exhaust system.
I was going to buy one this weekend, then I had flashbacks of last winter.
I think that's a dual intake, are the flaps still operating at all in the intake. As you know when these stick the performance drops noticeably
A few things to consider. Car and Driver tested your car new, but it is 18 years old now. Do you know when the spark plugs we're changed last? Is the ignition factory or have the coils been changed? What condition are the wheel bearings in? What condition is the transmission in, and have you performed a service, changing the filter and oil? Has the rear differential fluid been changed? Also some sensors like the map sensor could be going bad and even though the compression is good there could still be a lot of carbon build up in the valves, intake, and throttle body. i'm sure you know all these this can affect performance. Especially in a car that old.
sensor age will affect power. first thought is O2 sensors and MAF.
new ones and some driving around so the car re-learns its more accurate readings and you should theoretically get a bit faster
This is very interesting, I think I need to get some decent timing gear from somewhere and try this. I have a w210 E55 with 225000 miles on it but it still feels really fast, now I'm wondering if that might be because of where I live here in the UK. My house is 33ft above sea level, its fairly flat in this area and average yearly temp is only 50f, I don't know what the average humidity level is but its not excessive.
Are you using the battery charger to 'start' the car or merely charge the batt when low due to multiple uses in compression check?
I used the battery charger just to maintain a constant voltage since I was cranking it so much.
nice, add a second on your run time, and make the engine bay looks fantastic too.
hope to see another run with the see-through-car again
Try shifting the transmission yourself when doing the 0 to 60 runs, my W124 would rev a little more into redline when I shifted myself. But there's probably something else wrong with the car, air temperature doesn't affect naturally aspirated engines by that much. I am assuming you checked the condition and the model number of the spark plugs when you took them out. Clean out the throttle body, no doubt it's fully gunked up, clean the idle control valve, MAF, and intake if you can. Check the vacuum lines. Replacing some sensors would probably help as well, intake air temperature, cylinder head temperature etc.
I love your videos btw even though I'm a Saab Guy. I believe the slower 0-60 times is due to HP loss since it has the high miles on that AMG. If you put it on a dyno with all or any drivability issues fixed, I bet your closer to 200hpish now.
this was awesome!
It'd be interesting to see it dyno'd on the same conditions he did. I bet there's a noticeable difference in power output.
Anyway, good video and thanks!
eiji81 I did dyno the car. Check out the video. It was weather corrected
LegitStreetCars Alex, when you dyno'd the car, you did not have the cool intake tubes. I think if you dyno the car with the new cool intake tubes, the numbers will be higher.
Not sure if you did any service on this car?? But a good Oil change,new oil filter, new spark plugs, air filter, Fuel Filter and transmission service i think will make a difference. I know it did on my cars
Does that car need to have the transmission reset so it can relearn shift times and shift a bit harder and faster?
Get a w124 E300 (132kw M103) Diff without ASR, makes a huge difference.
Outstanding.
So I just installed 76mm pulley and belt wrap kit and there’s a little noise here and there is that Normal?
It's odd how one banks compression was significantly higher and more consistent than the other . Maybe lubricating , maybe has to do with intake leak on the left bank in the past hmmm.
Most likely it's wear in the timing chains causing the RH cams to be out of time slightly
just found this.very interesting.i wonder how mine will fare.c280 sport v6 w202 1997. its a baby..........
Better to have an insulated plastic air intake hose, instead of a metal one. The metal will heat up the cold air much faster than the plastic would.
If your time goes down as air intake cools, perhaps try to see if mid-grade gasoline (89-91 oct) would perform better than 87 oct fuel.
Check the filters.
Change the transmission oil, and engine oil to synthetic.
Try to see if E15 makes any difference.
I'd be curious to see the STFT and LTFT on a scanner. Can learn a lot about a car from them
Condition of plugs, air-filter and transmission fluid?
964tractorboy New trans fluid and filter. Older plugs but decent shape, kind of dirty air filters. I left everything the same as when I raced the see through car
2003 Honda Accord V6 6 speed Manual runs 5.8s to 60mph, those, "Mom cars" are super fast with the manual, I owned 2 of them, super underrated.
My prediction: Do a Motor Oil change, transmission oil change and most of all put on some good tires and you are where the car was meant to be. (did you already change the spark plugs and the airfilter?)
And where was the facotry air intake going to get its air from? The "sidemount" you got (behind the side parts of the grill) is maybe hindered by the grill, wouldn't it be better to get the air through the grill as the 55 does? (better airflow)
nirfz these transmission are supposed to never require oil changes. If you really want to you must take it apart and change the filter inside. Even if you do that will still not guarantee it won’t slip. Better to be left alone.
Which was clearly nonsense even when these transmissions came out. To reinforce how much nonsense that is - both the manufacturers of the cars and of the transmissions have changed that recommendation several times over the last 20 odd years. From "Lifetime" to 200,000kms to 100,000kms and now even less than that if under extreme use. I think Mercedes were the first of the Germans to realise this and alter their service interval. The flip side is to consider also the expectations the manufacturers have of what constitutes "Lifetime". BMW in Germany expect to recycle the cars at even as low as 100,000kms.
Tofu HDTV: i had a 1994 C class (looked the same as his 1999 but had a 4 speed auto) which had 60000km transmission fluid change intervalls, i had a 2002 W211 with i guess the same 5 speed he has in his C43 which got it's transmission fluid changed at least once in the 200 000 km i had it. (sadly i don't remember the correct intervall) All by recomendation from Mercedes.
Even my W212 and X204 today have required intervalls. The "never change" attitude was a very brief in the Mercedes history... And let's think about it: all automatic transmissions have devices inside to engange the gears (earlier ones band brakes newer ones miltiple clutches) which wear, even due to the fact they operate in fluid. And these particles and the fluid that degenerates over time (heat oxygen etc.) don't improve the operation of the transmission. Use the supposed oil/fluid and no problem.
casette walkman: my boss had a transmission problem with his old BMW 7 series at around 200000km and the mechanic congratulated him becaus usually those transmissions broke with the same problem at 185000km. He said that's the "max" distance they are built for... a transmission "guru" replaced a few parts and the car is up and running without problems again.
nirfz Indeed that failure is all too common a story. That is funny you say 185km as I've seen a number of BMW X5's for sale that mention replacement transmissions around that figure! I own 2 BMW wagons, an E46 328 with the Aisin Warner transmission that got it's first trans fluid change at 210,000ks (what came out looked like Guinness!) It shifts perfectly, basically like new and is very responsive. The other is 2005 530D with the ZF 6HP26 6 speed which was also used in the Mercs. I bought it with 205,000kms and did a trans service with the ZF fluid. The old fluid looked ok. Sensible previous owner. BMW lagged behind Mercedes with their service recommendation and it's insane that ZF & BMW have 200,000km as a "lifetime" expectation. Almost criminal. Fluid is so cheap I would do 60,000km sump drain/topups in line with best practice recommendations by most real world mechanics.