RC Car Extreme Aerodynamics

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2021
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  • @andrebrink2968
    @andrebrink2968 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4063

    Attach an accelerometer to measure peak lateral g-force with and without aero.

    • @Project-Air
      @Project-Air  2 ปีที่แล้ว +590

      A good idea for next time

    • @stephandelaat
      @stephandelaat 2 ปีที่แล้ว +86

      @@Project-Air If you do not have an accelerometer you could also run car flat out and than corner it at full speed. If the cars corners tighter...you have more grip (provided you get the balance right between front and rear wing).

    • @mikkihintikka7273
      @mikkihintikka7273 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stephandelaat are slows the car down so it circles better because it reduces the full speed but that idea can be used with some modifications

    • @JacobAlheid
      @JacobAlheid 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Export the data into MoTeC

    • @austinsmith9413
      @austinsmith9413 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thats what i was thinking.

  • @admkbldwn
    @admkbldwn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1821

    remember, aerodynamic forces are generated almost primarily on the low-pressure side of the surface -- flow detachment on the bottom of your wings isn't just creating drag, it's also severely limiting the amount of downforce you're generating. less angle of attack on those wings might actually generate more downforce since they wouldn't be stalling. if you wanted to keep the aggressive angle of attack, you should upgrade to a multi-element setup to keep flow attachment.

    • @crackedemerald4930
      @crackedemerald4930 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Yea you have like 100kN of force per square meter maximum available, makes sense

    • @ruskw
      @ruskw 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Interesting, I never would have thought that the majority of the force is generated from the low pressure side. Now I think about it it makes sense too

    • @wesandbutters113
      @wesandbutters113 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      Came here to say this, tried to warn him on the picture he posted a few weeks ago of the car.

    • @davecurlett2227
      @davecurlett2227 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      yup, if a wing begins to deflect air, energy is being wasted. You want smooth laminar flow across as much of the surface of the wing as possible. This creates that desired pressure differential between the top and bottom surface of the wing.

    • @wesandbutters113
      @wesandbutters113 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@davecurlett2227 not exactly. Part of the downforce comes from this air deflection. Also, you actually do want turbulent flow on the wing surface if you want your flow to stay attached at high angles of attack, since turbulent flow carries more energy and stays attached better. Most airplane wings transition from laminar to turbulence at only 10% chord length.

  • @HerraTohtori
    @HerraTohtori 2 ปีที่แล้ว +169

    The good old trick of sticking some bits of yarn all over the car would probably reveal a lot of the possible aerodynamic issues.
    Also, for a more consistent test, drive in a circle as fast as the car can go, and measure how fast the car can go around a circle with a certain radius. The benefit of this is that you can use quite simple physics to figure out if the aerodynamics is providing a meaningful downforce to assist the car - namely, if the centripetal acceleration in a corner is continuously higher than 1.0g, then you have conclusively demonstrated the presence of downforce.

    • @Rafael_Fuchs
      @Rafael_Fuchs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wouldn't really need to use any serious math beyond an overview shot with a drone at a set height and calculating the radius of the circle. Bring a broom, sweep the area free of debris and draw a set of uniform chalk circles using a string for an easy point of reference. The understeering would make a dramatic impact on the size of the circle and the differences would be visualized quite clearly.

    • @urgesurfing
      @urgesurfing 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Lmfao a guy copied your whole fucking comment, I can see it over your comment
      wish TH-cam had the option to upload pic as a comment, I'd have replied to his comment with the ss of your comment and bully that fucker

    • @Rafael_Fuchs
      @Rafael_Fuchs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@urgesurfing Wow, you're right. Word. For. Word. Lol
      His name is Dark, looks to be some anime pfp, and has a checkmark.

    • @HerraTohtori
      @HerraTohtori 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@urgesurfing There are a lot of TH-cam bots going around these days doing exactly that. They take an existing comment and copy it as their own, it's a cheap way to make them look like "real" people because they're posting comments that are made by real people instead of cheap Markov chain generator or some shit like that.
      Though usually those bots have pictures of scantily clad Russian ladies as their profile picture and their names are like "Click Me If Your Horni" or something, which makes it easy for us to see what's going on. This "Dark" channel might be related but evolved to be more stealthy like.
      It's usually best to just report things like this, and then ignore it. Bullying people never results in anything good and if it's a bot, you're just spending your effort for nothing.

  • @dhaferhermi2866
    @dhaferhermi2866 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Suggestion: use a multi flaps wings like the current f1 cars instead of the shovel, you can get a lower profile front wing with an increased surface area

  • @integza
    @integza 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1775

    I can tell you right now, Im gonna rip off the fan in front of the smoke machine idea

    • @Project-Air
      @Project-Air  2 ปีที่แล้ว +165

      Thief! 😛

    • @cactustv8145
      @cactustv8145 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Didn't you do it before? :D

    • @aprit0744
      @aprit0744 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      (I love both your videos!) Just be aware that a fan puts out incredibly turbulent air flow... Oh no? That means it's like an inverted golfball, instead of the dimples on the ball creating turbulence in the boundary layer helping it stay attached, the turbulent flow over a smooth object helps the air stay attached (either way highly inaccurate for irl situations unless your use case is in front of a fan or you regularly race in a hurricane...)
      So what can we do? Wind tunnels use fans, and their air flow is fine! Recirculating tunnels use methods to linearise the flow, (google is great) or simply... Use the Fan on 'suck mode' instead of blow. This brings its own challenges but in an enclosed environment it can be far more reliable
      Good luck, love your work, I wish I had the time to do everything you two do!

    • @bobtaylor6210
      @bobtaylor6210 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Love ur vids 😎🇺🇸

    • @MrHichammohsen1
      @MrHichammohsen1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Integza i need a 3d printer man come on i have been posting ideas :(

  • @kinzokushirogane1594
    @kinzokushirogane1594 2 ปีที่แล้ว +404

    Lift does not increase with the area squared, but rather the speed squared. Area is just A^1

    • @randomsnow6510
      @randomsnow6510 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      what he means is if you doulbe the diemensions the area gets squared

    • @gavinvales8928
      @gavinvales8928 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      He said that bit wrong, but what he said immediately following that is correct

    • @spookz2837
      @spookz2837 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Velocity is a bit different than speed but yeah

    • @omarkhammash9756
      @omarkhammash9756 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@spookz2837 in this context, its not, velocity here is the free stream velocity component that is normal to the chord, by definition direction doesnt change, therefore "speed" is not incorrect

  • @JohnBarronII
    @JohnBarronII 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    You definitely should test with the kit body. Aero makes a big difference, at least in 10th scale racing. We notice the handling difference by just changing the body and leaving the wings the same!

  • @DonutHolestien
    @DonutHolestien 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That F1 edit at the end was phenomenal!

  • @clemensfocke1202
    @clemensfocke1202 2 ปีที่แล้ว +331

    Great project, maybe on a smoother track, like inside a sport arena, you could experiment more with the ground-effect.

    • @Project-Air
      @Project-Air  2 ปีที่แล้ว +54

      This is what I've been thinking since finishing my experiments! Great suggestion. Maybe a ground effect fan car?

    • @clemensfocke1202
      @clemensfocke1202 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Project-Air That sounds realy interesting.

    • @MateusAzevedoMono
      @MateusAzevedoMono 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Project-Air Like the Brabham BT46 F1 car? That would be cool

    • @erick4188
      @erick4188 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I second the fan car idea! And getting an indoor roller rink or something haha

    • @EngineeringAfterHours
      @EngineeringAfterHours 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Project-Air if you go the fan car route, I can offer some info as to what's worked best for me so far. When I get a new motor setup I'll be going for round 3 looking to drop another .5s off my 0-60 time.
      th-cam.com/video/32zCMaGEY8I/w-d-xo.html

  • @Excludos
    @Excludos 2 ปีที่แล้ว +197

    Yeah, this is really cool, but definitively needed to be more scientific. Even without the wings, the car could go full speed through the corner. At that point, the only thing the wings can do is slow the car down with drag. You need to find a corner that the bare-body version can't get around without slowing down, and then see if the wings improve it. Pointing the camera at the suspensions and seeing it pushed down would also be a really good indicator

    • @mikkihintikka7273
      @mikkihintikka7273 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      he is rc youtubes what do you expect xD jk

    • @AlexJoneses
      @AlexJoneses 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I'd reccomend a better testing track

    • @snoopah3077
      @snoopah3077 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Its hard to control the car at those speeds

    • @shukriwafiq5220
      @shukriwafiq5220 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He wanna have fun not build a fucking racecar

    • @Excludos
      @Excludos 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@shukriwafiq5220 I fail to see the relevance. Are you proposing you can't have fun doing science?

  • @flyingark173
    @flyingark173 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Given what you know about airplanes, why are you not using the "wings" in a more traditional sense? As in, as you explained in the beginning of this video, using the wing, just upside down. Consider building an airplane that wants to climb more and more the faster you get...you'd never build an airplane with that angle of attack. I personally would love to see a video where you try to use the aerodynamics of a wing, even if protrudes beyond the base chassis, to prove that wings can push the chassis down...maybe have a scale on the front axis to try to measure?

    • @qetuowrzip7681
      @qetuowrzip7681 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      also, why not just put one upsode down RC wing on top in the middle? way easier to experiment with different sizes, easy to mount and less weight.

  • @dreserdeviant609
    @dreserdeviant609 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    love the old Williams livery.
    RIP Sir Frank Williams

  • @Rich77UK
    @Rich77UK 2 ปีที่แล้ว +600

    Very interesting stuff. Having had a tiny role in some F1 aero (I once mechanically designed a blade antenna that went on the 2002 Williams) I know how much effort the teams put into the TINIEST details to gain miniscule improvements. I was impressed with William's input and care and totally shocked by Jaguars lack of it (also did their antenna).

    • @juancete0107
      @juancete0107 2 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      Eyo u worked in the V10 era! Thats mental. Did u worked in 04 w williams too?

    • @razeenap3629
      @razeenap3629 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      So how was it working with them and how many years did you work with them but man i would have been jumping around if i got that offer

    • @lemomannmusicproductions4074
      @lemomannmusicproductions4074 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      God, working at motorsport would be my dream job! I'm working at a Baja SAE team right now, hopefully I'll get there

    • @zamir8041
      @zamir8041 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This man.
      This man right here has worked a job that many will only ever dream of

    • @wahyudyatmika5119
      @wahyudyatmika5119 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What a achievement! I am an aerospace engineering student, wishing to be like you. Ah hopefully.

  • @philippe9280
    @philippe9280 2 ปีที่แล้ว +261

    A selfmade wind tunnel would be An interesting project in itself and a nice tool in the development of future builds.

    • @glenncatchpole
      @glenncatchpole 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I second this idea!

    • @aGabay
      @aGabay 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      There's a reason why wind tunnels are worth a lot of engineering times, you can "design" one and homebuild it but there's a lot to it. There are different tunnels for different flow regimes, different sizes and different applications.

    • @JoeOvercoat
      @JoeOvercoat 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The Wright brothers approve this post.

    • @GeoThaDude
      @GeoThaDude 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      This would be a good place to start.
      th-cam.com/video/Sx5BQjKvElk/w-d-xo.html

    • @AyanAli-eq4lo
      @AyanAli-eq4lo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I made one using straws and a fan in the rear so laminar flow isn’t disturbed. I used some dry ice in warm water as smoke and a small air foil. It was pretty incredible

  • @TexRobNC
    @TexRobNC 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    You also needed the car with the stock bodywork and underside stuff to see how it compares. It could be that with the speeds and weights involved, the body they have designed already does an OK job. Probably easier to add to that than start from scratch.

  • @DannCaeruleum
    @DannCaeruleum 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I know this isn't the aerodynamics that is being used in F1 today, but it does leave you impressed about how it began and the what the basics of downforce and aerodynamics are.

  • @krupert8355
    @krupert8355 2 ปีที่แล้ว +156

    Some suggestions:
    Testing each change individually, and periodically re-testing the base no aero setup, and documenting how each change affected the car positively/negatively. I know it's a lot of work, but would be fun to watch I think, as we could follow the progress in detail with you.
    I think this could be an interesting ongoing project to follow over time, with further experimentation as time goes on, maybe one day have active aero for a more varied track.
    Comparing the stock aero from the factory could also be something interesting to see.
    As for suggestions, I would go with softening the rear shock absorbers a bit, maybe with a lighter oil, as it looks like the car is getting thrown around from those big bumps without absorbing them.
    3D printing aero parts might also be a way to have lighter parts that are also precise.
    Anyway, definitely please continue this project. =)

  • @Project-Air
    @Project-Air  2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    Hope you enjoyed this month's video! Let me know what you want to see me build next!
    Correction to the lift calculations -the full lift formula is L = Cl * A * .5 * r * V^2
    More info here www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/lifteq.html

    • @stephandelaat
      @stephandelaat 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      For ground effect to work your suspension needs to be perfect as well as the surface you drive on.

    • @myusernameblows
      @myusernameblows 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That fan and smoke machine was cool, you should build a scale-sized venturi effect recirculating wind tunnel! That would be a cool project

    • @Youdontwannaknow..
      @Youdontwannaknow.. 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the right formula but I don’t think anyone even noticed 😂 like i would be fooled even if u said a=bxc

    • @JoeOvercoat
      @JoeOvercoat 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you! That matters a lot to those of us who live it. Remember people, we’re just fish where our water is simply very thin/rare. Flow is everywhere, always.

    • @shijuokphun1379
      @shijuokphun1379 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi! Nice video! How about u put a upside down drone on the car. The fan/propeller are pushing the air up giving massive down Force. I would really like to see something like that! Tq.

  • @m.sierra5258
    @m.sierra5258 2 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    I think you misunderstand "drag" and "downforce".
    Of course I'm not an expert, but I'm somewhat confident that just like at an airplane, where most force gets generated at the *top* side of the wing, the majority of the downforce of your car gets generated at the *bottom* of the car's wing.
    That means, if you have layer separation (=stall) at the bottom side of your wing, then this does not just increase drag, it also drastically decreases the downforce.

    • @Assassindanny1
      @Assassindanny1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was looking for this commment

  • @dieselscartalk4146
    @dieselscartalk4146 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    9:22 love the V10 F1 sound

  • @aGabay
    @aGabay 2 ปีที่แล้ว +162

    If you want to learn anything from these experiments, you should be more methodical and try to isolate one factor each time, running the same test (or as similar as possible). For example, you should have tested the smaller wing at that same corner, without changing the rake angle and adding the splitter-diffuser floor.

    • @griptopia
      @griptopia 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      give the guy some credit i think he knows that and is working up to it.. maybe watch all the way through.. judge when in possession of all the facts my friend.

    • @aGabay
      @aGabay 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@griptopia I watched all the way through, and some of his other videos - he can't learn anything like that.

    • @griptopia
      @griptopia 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He's clearly learning so I don't agree .. controlling your test conditions will help for sure but I'm sure he's aware :)

    • @aGabay
      @aGabay 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@griptopia By his reactions, he's not aware of it.

    • @George-kd7uz
      @George-kd7uz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@griptopia you cant really learn anything by changing more than one variable for each run as you wont know whats making the difference

  • @medul8039
    @medul8039 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    maybe raise the spoiler and remove the skirts
    in f1 they stopped the skirts because of increases in crashes
    also, the big size with the large angles of the aero could make handling harder

    • @medul8039
      @medul8039 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      also something that might help is loosening rear anti roll bars if you have any
      and/or softening rear suspension dont over do it on the roll bars or suspension though
      there could be too much roll and all the grip goes to 1 tire

  • @shivr5836
    @shivr5836 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The crash was like an how an actual F1 car would crash but instead it would break into pieces COOL!!! Love your work man.

  • @AndyLaurence
    @AndyLaurence 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Your understeer was a combination of more downforce from that wing and also the drag high up at the rear. The rear wing drag is like a lever acting on the rear wheels as a pivot. Those wings are only generating downforce by increasing pressure on the top surface. You should print a proper profile to get lower pressure on the bottom rather than just separating as you discovered

    • @rohanhemnani4706
      @rohanhemnani4706 ปีที่แล้ว

      i think the rear diffuser was giving the rear tires a lot of grip and the rear wing was exceeding the needed rear downforce so i think he should reduce the angle of the rear wing to give enough downforce to the front of the car to prevent understeer

  • @lewistaylor863
    @lewistaylor863 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I used to race RC cars nearly 20 years ago - indoor 1/12th on a reasonably large carpet track with a decent straight. I remember playing around with different body shells and rear wing combinations and there were deffinately differences to be felt - less so with shells, but a decent rear wing with end fences definately made them more stable down the long straight. That could then be balanced with better front end grip allowing good tracking down the straights, with pointy stearing response for the tight corners. Not talking huge differences here, but when you are used to running the same car on the same circuit (we did change track layouts once a month) with controlled indoor conditions, then you do start to notice the small setup changes which you can make and the small differences adding a big wing with fences can make.
    Fun fact, the track used to rubber in over the course of the month - when the carpet was hoovered at track change time, the grip the first week of the new setup was awful. We didn't use tyre addatives, just the natural rubbering in of the foam tyres on the carpet. 'Marbles' (dust and general crap) off line was a thing too!

  • @ViggenProductions
    @ViggenProductions 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Great video James! I'm not a car guy but this was really interesting. That smoke machine + EDF worked really well to visualize the airflow!

    • @Project-Air
      @Project-Air  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you very much!

  • @imsubbingtoeveryonewhosubs1625
    @imsubbingtoeveryonewhosubs1625 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    9:21 what a original sound 😳

  • @MikeStallone
    @MikeStallone 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I got this same car going 154mph. Great choice of rc

  • @tench745
    @tench745 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Great video as always. I’m a little surprised you didn’t test the car with the stock bodywork installed to see if the massive wings were an improvement over the scale ones.

  • @thomasshelley4617
    @thomasshelley4617 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    If it's a square relationship doesn't double wing equal quadruple lift/downforce?

    • @aGabay
      @aGabay 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      L = 0.5*rho*S*C_L*V² where S is the wing surface, so his statement is completely wrong...
      Double the surface, double the lift force.

    • @skepp7600
      @skepp7600 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@aGabay yup
      No clue what he was on about

    • @notanengineer
      @notanengineer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      The first part he said was wrong, lift is instead directly proportional to the area. The second part about doubling the length doubling the lift was correct though

    • @thomasshelley4617
      @thomasshelley4617 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Makes more sense ;)

  • @NicholasRehm
    @NicholasRehm 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Would love to see some active flow control applied to an RC car -- think: control surfaces and active feedback to vary grip based on commanded turn rate

  • @eppiox
    @eppiox 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The onboard camera footage was ace, can really see how any small bump in the road really messes those things up

  • @Leo99929
    @Leo99929 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The wing angle of attack should be in the 7° to 13° range to avoid flow separation on the back. To increase down force you can split one big wing into several smaller ones with progressively higher angle of attack, so that each is ~7° steeper than the one before it, and shallower than the one after it. Aerofoil cross section matters.

    • @DavidDewis
      @DavidDewis 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That rear wing isn’t a wing, it’s a spoiler. They work differently biggest confusion people make about car aero. The front wing is also pitched wrong. It’s making more drag than downforce.

    • @Leo99929
      @Leo99929 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What is it that makes it a spoiler as opposed to a wing, but the front surface is still a wing and not a spoiler? Is the original rear surface on the car (1:06) a wing or a spoiler? What about on an F1 car? What about a Formula Student rear wing which is similarly optimised for low speed downforce?

    • @cademckee7276
      @cademckee7276 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Leo99929 In this case the profile and how the downforce is generated. A race car wing actually generates most of its downforce from the underside via suction just like the diffuser, since these have no profile and the air is basically just hitting them rather than creating low pressure under the surface it’s a spoiler.

  • @NitroTom91
    @NitroTom91 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I have a Lotus Elise Body on my 1:10 and when I remove the rear wing it becomes practically undriveable. Top speed is about a third higher than with the wing on. Also aerodynamic flow over the entire thing is super important too, not just the downforce of the wing.

  • @robertmckay694
    @robertmckay694 ปีที่แล้ว

    With the f1 sound it was epic!

  • @serversurfer6169
    @serversurfer6169 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:50 Two squared is actually four, mate. That said, lift increases as a square of the velocity, not the area, so at double the speed, you generate four times the downforce. 💜🤓👍

    • @2KOOLURATOOLGaming
      @2KOOLURATOOLGaming 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ye, I don't think this guy understands what 'lift' is. He explained it as pushing air down to push the wing up on a plane, but it isn't, it is a result of low pressure and high pressure, right? The surfaces he has created are intended to literally deflect the air so they won't be generating much lift-based downforce will they. In his case, I guess that doubling the surface area would double to downforce because the surface is colliding with twice as much volume of air and therefore the air is providing an opposite force twice that of a halved surface.

  • @shaunpriddle3404
    @shaunpriddle3404 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Compession of suspension components to a calibrated set point would give down force value and a split front/back , but would need a smooth running surface.
    Awesome vid btw 👍👍👍

  • @andym436
    @andym436 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I'd be interested in seeing how the aerodynamics of the wings would affect the top speed.

    • @ManuelOrtizification
      @ManuelOrtizification 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think in this case, it would actually reduce the top speed 😅

    • @andym436
      @andym436 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ManuelOrtizification I agree. It would increase the drag and slow the car down.

  • @malootua2739
    @malootua2739 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Here's it completely new concept, mount an upside-down RC airplane wing like 4 inch above the RC car right at the center of gravity, so it pushes both front and rear down equally

  • @Follower_Of_Xi_Jinping_Pooh
    @Follower_Of_Xi_Jinping_Pooh 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good job kid, (I'm old, probably 3x or 4x your age). I hope my 10 year old kid with get interested with engineering and physics stuff like this. Subscribed!

  • @GulliJ
    @GulliJ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    It's very interesting to see how you are in front of the same problem than full scale. The ground effect could only work on flat surface, loosing the ground effect is so dangerous that it can't really be a good option except on perfect track.
    But using your smoking development aero system, you probably could test the actual F1 looking aerokit on your model. I'm impatient seeing it 😃

  • @anjanbabu3429
    @anjanbabu3429 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    That's a really cool experiment, I'd love to try this out myself someday! You could also try implementing a tail-fan like the Gordon Murray T50. Also, lift increases with the square of velocity and not planform area [L = Cl * A * .5 * r * V^2].

    • @nigeypants5500
      @nigeypants5500 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He said square but then immediately said when you double the area you double the force lol. I think he just didn't mean to say square of the area

  • @AleChemist23
    @AleChemist23 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That bump in the interior part of the turn is the main problem; you would definitely benefit from a road with no gravel 👌🏼

  • @princecayman3343
    @princecayman3343 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Project Air: makes something that will definitely not fly

  • @Sherpa199
    @Sherpa199 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    James, a very interesting video. This type of aero is like a law of diminishing returns but seeing as how your baseline was the bare chassis with no aero then the initial gains are going to be massive, I can tell you that an 1/8 scale IC car with no body work is very unsettled, put even an average body like a Lancia LC2 an there is a huge initial difference, then the gains are smaller and much harder to find.
    At one point later in the video where you had understeer, you had the car pivoting about the back axle and actually lifting the front end. I done some wind tunnel testing with Ford on their first WRC Focus in the Cologne wind tunnel and this rotating around the axles is very noticeable. Ease off on the rear down force and some to the front and away you go.
    Don't listen to the doubters. Most of them have never done anything useful.

  • @mohdsultan2711
    @mohdsultan2711 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Also you have to consider the drag force caused by big spoilers increasing the frontal surface area... There is a relationship between drag and downforce...

  • @Manoprinc44
    @Manoprinc44 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you want to reduce drag while still keeping good downforce levels, you can use multiple wing elements that "feed" each other but with a smaller angle of attack in between them. That way you wouldn't have as much flow separation on the underside of the wings

  • @kreicsidavid4497
    @kreicsidavid4497 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just some tips: Gurney flaps are very useful (basically flexing the very end of the wing more drastically, producing more downforce with less drag). Placing skirts on the side of the floor (obviously not made of a thick material) would also inprove ground effect. You can also wider the front wing, because turned tires can disturb air flow. This solution might also work: placing the rear wing on a shark fin by its upper side as the rear wing's lower side produces the more downforce, and as the shark fin ends in the rear wing, it doesn't create such a big vortex.

  • @glumpy10
    @glumpy10 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I have always wondered about active Aero. Wings flatten out in a straight line, sensors pitch them up for more downforce in turns and turn them right up for braking. Also like to see the old fan car design that sucked the vehicle onto the road with engine power. They built one like this but it was so quick they banned it after one race. Always wish they Built a Demo car with all the tech like active aero, fans, turbos etc and see how much faster it could go round a track than the " legal" cars. I bet it would be a LOT faster.

    • @GoldenCroc
      @GoldenCroc 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Try the red bull car in the gran turismo games, its got what you are looking for. And it still is far from a "clean sheet" unregulated design, more like what it could look like if the regulations were still 1975-1980-ish.

    • @burtpanzer
      @burtpanzer 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I hear Ron Dennis encouraged the design to be banned in the US... probably because it was about to cause all race cars to adopt the "door-stop" shape, as well as the danger inherent in any loss of suction while cornering.

  • @johns1307
    @johns1307 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Huge issue with ground effect is that the scale of the RC car compared to the scale of the smoothness of the road is a much bigger issue than with a full-sized car, and they work HARD to make F1 tracks grippy enough for turning but smooth enough to not vibrate the hell out of the vehicles.
    Active aero could have potential but you'd need a fast computer on board to control it accurately.

  • @MidsouthCupSeries
    @MidsouthCupSeries ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Those bumps were killing that thing! I will be attempting something similar to this thank you for the info and tips! Also, that editing with the old engine sound at 9:22 was awesome!

  • @Lozzie74
    @Lozzie74 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You’re an excellent scientist / engineer. You tried hard to develop a quantifiable test and continued to evaluate your hypothesis. You also acknowledged that correlation did not guarantee causation.

  • @vintyprod
    @vintyprod 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Would be cool if you did some hard engineering as opposed to just tinkering. Interesting video regardless!

    • @aGabay
      @aGabay 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      My thoughts too.

  • @Driver61
    @Driver61 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    DOWNFORCE!

  • @fjpoggemann
    @fjpoggemann 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love that the two images of an F1 car with aero were both Ayrton Senna!

  • @williamhealy6381
    @williamhealy6381 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Aerodynamics on rc cars is something I never thought about, very cool

  • @piconano
    @piconano 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Companies spend millions in researching this.
    I'd suggest you mimic them and see why they've chosen what they have.
    Having a snow-plow in the front and back, won't do anything meaningful.

  • @nicolas357
    @nicolas357 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wawwww, Just discovered this youtube channel. Keep up the good work!!!!!

  • @dano4572
    @dano4572 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    CUTS THE GRASS PRETTY GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @962RACER
    @962RACER 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The F1 sound at 9:21 oddly gave it perspective, cool project.

  • @ilmt
    @ilmt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I would love to see the results with the original bodywork - given that the model had quite aerodynamic shape already. Would be interesting to see the difference.

  • @southjerseysound7340
    @southjerseysound7340 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish I had seen this sooner or knew you were working on it. Because believe it or not slot cars are still a thing and are great for aero experiments. They also have winged cars that are insanely fast and use a very simple form of active aero.

  • @johnsteve870
    @johnsteve870 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great to see you are applying Haas’s wind tunnel testing

  • @SteliosRcdrift
    @SteliosRcdrift 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Understeer and slow front end response can be solved with a very fast and high torque steering servo. Especially at higher speeds even without the extra aerodynamics

  • @nostooge
    @nostooge 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Giant trench (at RC scale) across the road just before the corner looks like the most significant element in determining cornering speed. In ~1/3 of the efforts you show, the entire car is thrown into the air by the bump, and in some of those the car is sideways or backwards before it's back on the ground.

  • @maddoxmcdermott8384
    @maddoxmcdermott8384 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Use a split front scoop to allow more air to pass over the front center of the car pushing down the rear.
    I did similar experiments with a Traxxas Jato 3.3. Full front scoop overheated the engine due to air deflection as I ran gas.
    With split scoop there was still a considerable difference in stearing ability against a stock Jato. Both had upgraded Road Rage tires and not the garbage stock Anacondas.
    Keep up the good work

  • @Underpantsniper
    @Underpantsniper 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I did something very similar about 8 years ago and yes it works well so long as the spring rate are balanced properly with the aero and going around in a circle is a better way to find out what Gaines you have made.

  • @JacobusRC
    @JacobusRC 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sweet RC body modifications! and love the F1 sounds 😂

  • @RedFiredu29
    @RedFiredu29 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey I'm sure that the ground effect works underwater too because I can be a lot faster by swimming the nearest to the ground in a swimming pool than at the surface for sure

  • @alsa4real
    @alsa4real 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    9:21 that edit synced so well

  • @bobaccountingdepartment6616
    @bobaccountingdepartment6616 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This video made me subscribed, honestly I was pretty impressed with the quality of this video

  • @NikoxD93
    @NikoxD93 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would be super interested in more videos on experiments with ground effect RC cars! And I suggest doing some constant steering test to objectively compare maximum cornering speed on equal cornering radius. Ideally clean road, and loop around a constant radius circle to remove other variables like gravel, weight shifting, etc. :)

  • @thedeamonmeteor69420
    @thedeamonmeteor69420 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That bump on the turn is killing me

  • @Hustler9g
    @Hustler9g 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You should try mounting the wings high and attaching them directly to the suspension. High wings are more efficient and if you mount them to the suspension you don't lose mechanical grip from having to stiffen the suspension to compensate for the aero's compression on the suspension.

  • @masoon772
    @masoon772 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That car looks smooth and cool

  • @maiconkenio4317
    @maiconkenio4317 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    fun time 9:21 , good work, nice acceleration timing. "from Brazil

  • @paulsteward9582
    @paulsteward9582 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Martini-inspired livery, i like that touch

  • @thesunexpress
    @thesunexpress 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    1/8 scale BMT 911 4WD nitro buggy had active aero over the rear axle. It's rear spoiled had linkage attached directly to the rear swing-arms that would turn the rear spoiler as vertical as possible under braking. Conversely, it would flatten to horizontal as much as possible during hard acceleration. It definitely had a very significant effect on performance.

  • @juamidelacruz6781
    @juamidelacruz6781 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm making some aerodynamic improvements on my rc f1 project car and this video really helped me!

  • @macrumpton
    @macrumpton 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    One difficulty is that at the relatively low speeds the wings need to be huge and ambient air movement is a significant effector. You might try using a fan to draw air out from under a skirt around the car, sort of a reverse hovercraft like Jim Hall's Chaparral that worked so well the technique was banned. You could even have a simple pendulum accelerometer control the fan so it only ran when cornering. Another approach might be to have the wing angles change according to sideways g forces (using an accelerometer).

  • @AkAsCoTTii3
    @AkAsCoTTii3 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That box on the top will be creating such a lot of drag, it’s like a pocket for the air to suck into

  • @MAR-ug5zg
    @MAR-ug5zg 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ah man well-done with that real sound! Awesome and unexpected 😂😂👍❤

  • @adja8038
    @adja8038 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're onto something here mate

  • @harrisonmcnab1176
    @harrisonmcnab1176 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would love to see a rc time attack car that works like the real cars great vid man

  • @AlexLifts1210
    @AlexLifts1210 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    More like this please 👏🏻👍🏻

  • @brentfabian174
    @brentfabian174 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Downforce does help with increasing grip but after a while the tires might be at their limit. If you race on dry pavement I would recommend trying foam tires. They wear faster but provide a lot more grip.

  • @djyjrlz
    @djyjrlz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you’re keen to learn some tips have a look at 1/8th scale on road racing machines, rear wings attached directly to the rear hubs to avoid pitching under high downforce corners, plus foam tires with much less flex lend a huge amount to consistency

  • @cristiannalesso9181
    @cristiannalesso9181 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    the V10 sound it's awesome

  • @brieee28
    @brieee28 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Cool experiment and interesting results! I have to admit I didn't think it would work on a small scale. I'd like to see this done with an accelerometer, and you could 3D print the wings? That makeshift wind tunnel is a great idea. A couple things to maybe keep in mind if you try again:
    - Boundary layer separation doesn't just increase drag, it also decreases downforce, as the bottom side of the wing creates most of the downforce
    - Sharp leading edges tend to promote boundary layer separation, hence rounded leading edges seen on things from airplanes to F1 cars
    - Boundary layer separation caused by a high angle of attack can be solved by a multi-element wing (like Formula 1 or time attack wings, with one plane on top of another).
    - 3D printing is a great way to do some easy iterative design, and it allows for more complex geometry and smoother parts. Rough parts (like exposed hardware) could play a major part in boundary layer separation.

    • @S.R.Shadow
      @S.R.Shadow 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You're very perceptive there's a lot I need to learn from you 😅😅😅

  • @oldman5487
    @oldman5487 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What you need is a way to accurately measure the down force. A vertically installed pin connected to the bottom plate of the car and poking through the body inside the shot of the camera will show how low the body is being manipulated downward. Paint rings on the pin and you have an accurate measure.

  • @White000Crow
    @White000Crow ปีที่แล้ว

    From what I understand the primary thing about cars aerodynamics is keeping as much air as possible from getting under the car. Like keeping that front air dam/wing as low as possible.
    Take a look at some of the Pikes Peak cars made to run in lower density atmosphere.

  • @srfhdx5584
    @srfhdx5584 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You should use multi tiered wings, these lower the speed that boundary separation/wing stall stops, also you can use a shallower angle of attack of the wings for same downforce

  • @karsten6942
    @karsten6942 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The reason why this car is so amazing is that it’s trade in efficency

  • @TopZueg
    @TopZueg 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I used to race RC cars. I used a bi level wing similar to what F-1 wings look like or those on top fuel dragsters. These wings give much more downforce and less drag as well. Made big differences in lap times. FWIW

  • @broadwheelre
    @broadwheelre 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please make more f1 based tech video, more consistent and precise with time , looking forward for those content

  • @bobcreekmore
    @bobcreekmore 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would like to see you try a front rudder system attached via control arm to the steering system. I think you would have more steering control at high speeds.

  • @eroki2946
    @eroki2946 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'd love to see more like this

  • @LiquidXiron
    @LiquidXiron 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Subscribed for the F1 sound

  • @rushingbuzz8410
    @rushingbuzz8410 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    i need to see more small scale car aero stuff its super interesting

  • @Proh3dsh0t
    @Proh3dsh0t 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would love to see you build and/or modify fan made shells for better aerodinamic and test against the original one and keeping scores on a board of some kind so we can understand how well they place against the default car. Keep up the good work, first video I've seen but would love to stick by