So JWs implode their followers with forced study and forced daily reading of their printed literature. They have to read certain Watchtower and other rules forced literature for their Thursday night weekly meetings. God forbid they dont raise their hands to answer questions posed by the elders albeit perpetrators are called into the "little room" where they are humiliated and reprimanded by several elders. What I loathe and a massive confrontation I had was when this happened to my 86 year old Mother. These elders disregard all respect. They have no respect for others. I treat them with similar disrespect. Respect begets respect. I love laying into them. They usually have an answer for everything but when I confront them they look mortified and in a state of shock. My loathing of their destruction of my family continues.
fantastic video. thank you for this. i was jehovahs witness for 18 years and this was explained to me at one point. i could even explain it myself, it's just been so long i didnt remember the entire "explanation"
A few of you dear folks are saying you don't like the music. Though I do value the feedback, I think it's worth knowing that I made this video specifically with a younger audience in mind. Older ex-JWs might be fascinated with this subject, and will happily sit through hours of discussion on cuneiform tablets and end-time prophecy, but a younger TH-cam audience is more easily distracted. If you find yourself annoyed by the music, at least draw some solace from the notion that younger viewers, who stand to win the most by being saved from indoctrination, are being eased through an otherwise boring subject by it.
+John Cedars Well I liked the music! Then again, I'm part of a younger TH-cam audience who is more easily distracted. :-P Great video. I realize a person could go on for hours and hours on the various lines of evidence on this subject, but another favorite of mine is that Watchtower's own book, Insight on the Scriptures, will lead you to the 587/586 BCE date if you just do the math and count the lengths of kings' reigns from 539 BCE back.
+John Cedars I'm 36 and usually do programming work for hours with techno blasting in my ears. - I consider myself young (ish) with an attention deficit disorder. Your target audience. The issue here is not that there is music, but that it is loud enough that I cannot always understand what you are saying. In addition, you may consider the language barrier. The first language of many MANY people is not English and thus, need to pay extra attention when they listen to your videos. Music simply makes it MORE difficult. I am not telling you to take all the music away... but lower it just enough to know that its there.
+stephane laliberte I did use Dijana as a test audience with this music, because obviously English is not her first language, but she said she could follow my reasoning and found the music complimentary rather than distracting - so this hasn't been an entirely arbitrary process. If the levels aren't to your satisfaction that will be more down to my lack of expertise and limited technical prowess than anything. But if it reassures you at all, I set the music to the lowest possible volume setting, and the dialogue to the maximum. They are not at the same levels - I at least made sure of that.
+John Cedars, You know, maybe one of the reasons it was more difficult for me this time around is that usually, I just play your videos in the background while I work. So, I do other things and still understand what you are saying. However, I find that with the music, I just can't.... Anyways... the content of what you just did there is still awesome. Keep up all the efforts you're putting in this.
Saw this on your FB page and was looking forward to watching it. Thank you very much, I thoroughly enjoyed it, was easy to follow and debunked many of my previous thoughts on the matter. I never knew about the astronomy records which are watertight. I spent the last 21years a jw, believing the 607bc date. 5yrs ago I randomly looked up my children's encyclopedia and first come across the 586/7 date. I remember feeling sick to my stomach, did a little research, then asking my PO Elder some questions before a meeting. He told me to get the material out of the KH. It took another 5yrs, for me to get DF and endure 8months of shunning to finally wake up, do further research (many from your sites). I walked away April this year, never to return. Thank you for your tireless work, you are awakening people, one by one.
I never understood the dates or calculations. Math is not my forte. However in my older years I now find history fascinating. That is what I hate the most. My lack of taking my education seriously. After all I didn’t need to pay attention. I just had to go in service and spew my memorized scriptures. Thank you for the work you put into this.
loved your excellent description of the truth. I was raised believing these dates and was blown away when I found your channel. thank you for bringing us into the light !!!
This video is awesome! The new music, the perfectly edited cut scenes, the audio seems better and it flowed really well. Obviously the work is speeding up in this time of the end!
Ironic is the fact that Russell himself pointed out that false dates and predictions brought reproach on God, and then proceeded to reproach God with false dates and predictions.
Llyod,you are such a gift to me and my family.you and many other’s have helped me to break free from the jw cult.cant thank you enough. I am sending this to everyone I know.
I know this is an older topic, but I appreciate your coverage of it. Very clear and understandable delivery. TMS did you well, my brother. As you have time, mixing in older controversies with your latest updates would be welcome.
During COVID-19 I have found great purpose for my JW Bible. All my local markets are out of toilet paper, and now I have enough to last me until May, or June at least.
Taking a few hours to research 1914/607 seems like a valuable balance to the hours and hours and hours of book study time I spent as a kid learning this mashup of time in the first place.
Shalom sir, the title of your video got my attention; great video--thanks for posting. Those are very strange teachings the Jehovahs have. I have a friend who attended/graduated from the Israel Institute of Biblical Studies and I have never heard any of them speak on a 607 BCE. Archaeologists are unanimous for the date of 587/586 BCE and your explanation to support this date is very accurate. On a kind note: The scripture you quoted at timer 16:52 is not Jeremiah 29:11-12, it's found in Jeremiah 25:11-12. Shalom!
I am soooo impressed by your research. Having a Masters degree in divinity, I know the Biblical history. However, I didn't know about the record-keeping of the Babylonians, and I especially found the astronomical evidence fascinating. Great job, thank you! I knew very little about JW's before I found you through Chris Shelton. I'm glad to know more about this group and its beliefs and practices.
I completely understand why this would be very important to wake some up. But honestly...This kind of doctrine was always lost on me. I woke up by paying attention to their basic nonsense beliefs and eventually stopped justifying god and his psychotic actions. Pioneering and pioneer school helped a lot too. The overwhelming ridiculousness of it all was just undeniable at that point.
Well done sir! This is an excellent video. It's evident that you had to put in a lot of time and effort to make it. Thank you so much for all your hard work on our behalf.
Hello, I just wanna say thank you so much for all these videos. I am 23 and abandoned my aspirations well learning the apparent "truth" . Now I wanna catch all these missed years of my life. Thank you
Just a side note: the battle of Carchemish, where Nebuchadnezzar II defeated Egyptian Pharoah Necho II, happened in 605. That battle made Babylon the new, dominant world power. This was a major battle and it's being a matter of record is set. But Nebuchadnezzar fought this battle as a son of the King, Nabopolassar. Shortly after this victory, in the same year, King Nabopolassar died and Nebuchadnezzar became King of Babylon. If you believe Jeremiah was accurate, and you count 19 years from that year (605) you get to 586, which happens to be the same year historians say Jerusalem was besieged and then destroyed. Coincidentally, Babylonian chronicles also say that In the 11th year of Zedekiah, King of Judea, Nebuchadnezzar conquered the city and took Zedekiah captive. So, 11 years from 597 when he defeated Jehoiachin and installed Zedekiah, and that would be, tada, 586/587. If you believe in the bible, and you trust that the prophets of it tried their best to be accurate, you would find greater faith in accepting 586 as the date of destruction because it proves Jeremiah was accurate. I don't know how you can have one without the other.
Great video and summary. At the end of the day, who really has reason to lie about when Jerusalem was destroyed? To the historians it's just a date of an occurrence that happened thousands of years ago in the past. To the Jehovah's Witnesses religion, their entire religion, teachings on the last days, and when the "faithful slave" was selected all hinge on 607 being right - and clearly it is not. The JW organization will never apologize for insisting on this date and their false prophecies regarding the last days and 1914, and they couldn't care a less how many people they have mislead and disfellowshipped for disagreeing with them, nor how many lives they have ruined. New evidence is all that historians would need to change their minds on when Jerusalem was destroyed. Religions like the Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand will never change their minds on when they believe it was destroyed no matter how much evidence proves them to be false. To the contrary, they would do their best to suppress it.
+Susan Gaskin Witnesses would say that the historians are part of Satan's world, hence Satan has a reason to lie about it, so by extension, the historians have a reason to lie as well. When you believe that there's this supernatural struggle between good and evil, any evidence that challenges your beliefs can be easily dismissed as Satanic Propaganda.
ogama843 yes many will leave because of the going digital.however i do think they gota pull a big rabbitt out of the hat soon because of the bad press and the Royal commision starting in the uk . They need a diversion urgently . Perhaps they will change the JW into jesus witneses. That would creat a new begining for them.
Yes you right .they have blocked jesus for so many years he will bring them down .the gb is so stuborn they will continue their hard line until they die then creat new clones of themselvs to carry on the lies. They dont care about the sheep .
+john cedars WOW!!! This was amazing. It's true what you said early on-- this video debunked WT chronology early on, but completely destroyed it as the video went on. The video was very well made and thoughtful. The music threw me off at first, but it didn't distract me at all. Keep up the great work. I faded about a year and half ago and I started doing research on various aspects of witness teachings. I already was skeptical and videos like this and research just confirmed what I felt. I also appreciate your non-religious tone. I stay clear from religious "apostates". I'm done with religion and god, so your videos and JW Survey website are great for me. Thanks!!!
Great job Lloyd. Watchtower says Jesus was enthroned as King in October 1914, then war broke out in heaven and Satan was hurled down to earth bringing woe to the earth. I don't know how long it takes to war in heaven but even if Satan was hurled down to earth on October 2nd, World War 1 was already raging by then and wasn't caused by Satan being thrown down to earth. As a JW I always found this a bit odd.
Lloyd, excellent video! I wanted to add my two cents about the music. I am 60 and I did not find the music distracting but rather liked it. I thought the whole video was well put together and enjoyed John Redwood reading the scriptures. Very well done. Valerie O'Connor
This video is tops. Everything about it. I didn't want it to end. If JW goes down, you can make history documentary videos. Even the music is spot on, energy and volume just right.
This is a very good explanation of known dates. As someone with an interest in astronomy, I agree with this and enjoyed your discussion..I've never been a JW, but they come round on occasion and I like to talk with them asking "innocent" questions designed to help wake up a JW. I know I"ve had an effect on a young man in tow of a woman JW. She left as fast as she could pry him away from my "question." I can only hope that it helped him to see the problems with the teachings of the wittnesses. I tried not to reattle her, but just ask investigative questions that anyone could be asking.
good stuff. im dyslexic with numbers,but have gone outa my way b4 working out & researching these dates. I congratulate you on explaining the chronological dates in an easy & manageable way for someone like myself.thanx & gd work!
this is the first John Cedars aka Lloyd Evans video I ever saw, circa near the beginning of 2020. Knowing that 607 bce was a made-up time for the destruction of Jerusalem was a huge step in my recovery from this org. Before I started watching these videos, I was PIMO (Physically In Mentally Out) and I had already sensed some problems with many JW teachings, but merely considered them harmless practises and stored my doubts "on the shelf." This video started a chain reaction that led to (and is still leading to) my mental freedom. Thank you so much for all you do Lloyd Evans. Please keep it up for a long, long time!
Ive always been very confused about the 607 and 1914 issue regarding the Watchtower teachings well done for putting this video togehter hopefully it will knock some sense into exisiting witnesses heads.
Thank you for that information. So important to know . Wish I had known 50 years ago when I was baptized. Better late, though, than never knowing . Yours videos are so very helpful.
Thankyou for this information, i had no idea about this date, ive shared this with my sister who had been disfellowshiped many years ago, for living with the person she loves, and is still with, she will be taken back by this information Thankyou John
Thank you for this video. It was very easily understood and I'm sure it will reach a lot of people if they are brave enough to watch it. I also enjoyed the music. It made a dull subject seem upbeat somehow. Thanks again! I'm grateful for all your hard work! Much love to you, your wife and your little baby daughter from Kentucky, USA. You should give us an update on your daughter! I'm sure she's such a happy little thing!
i just dont believe we should be interpreting dreams. thats why i dont believe jehovahs witnesses can interpret nebuchadnezzar's dream about the tree, and why i dont accept the 1914 teaching
Sounds like an archetypal dream on the theme of "Jack and the Beanstalk". You could do some great Jungian analysis on the Nebuchadnezzar story, going wild is his shadow aspect breaking out of a poor integrated personality. And who was the "giant" of Nebuchadnezzar's "beanstalk" who fell? That was Nebuchadnezzar himself, his influence visible across the known world.
Telltale it makes sense however, that 1914 is the year as JW say the year Jesus was crowned king. Satan Cast from heaving and causing great havoc on earth.
The Bible says that God revealed to Daniel the dreams and the interpretation of them (2). Read Daniel and you will see. You may as read the whole took and learn.
this 607 thing is what allowed me to just walk away from jw's with no regrets or what-ifs. i actually decided to leave wt because i was noticing gross hypocracy on all levels of command in the kh, and in all locations. but i was still thinking in the back of my head "what if they are right and the end comes and i die forever?" that thought didn't last long because i found another youtube video discussing this subject of 607/1914 with the astronomy evidence. that's all i needed. if you take away 607 you take away 1914 and you take away the last days and you take away jesus being enthroned and you take away satan controlling the earth and you take away armageddon and you take away jw's being chosen and you take away the preaching work having any meaning. the gb have done everyone a great service by making this easily debunked teaching the very backbone of everything they believe in. --- all of the shunning stuff and child molestation stuff is bad and can lend evidence that the wt is not god's "chosen servant", but it's circumstancial at best, it's not definitive. the 607 thing though is definitive. you can't recover any wt teachings after that one date is debunked. thanks for the video. and awesome music!
so far Jerimiah 29:11, 12 is quite a solid argument. Witnesses just dont know what to do with "these nations" and "70 years fulfilled...call Babylon into account" parts. im still learning, but its a lot like the trinity doctrine...either you take a verse in the bible to mean that theres a triun or you take the same verse to mean the opposite. its all about what you want to see
647 - first year of Kandalanu (BM76738: the planet Saturn: June 24, -647 and July 18, -647) 646 - second year of Kandalanu (BM76813: the planet Saturn: June 28, -646 and July 31, -646) 625 - first year of Nabopolassar 609 - fall of Assyrian (70 years start). | first year of Jehoiakim by Necho II (Battle of Megiddo: BM21901) 605 - BM22047 + BM21946: first year of Nebuchadnezzar II (Battle of Carchemish) | Four year of Jehoiakim by Nebuchadnezzar II (Daniel 1:1) 598 - first year of Jehoiachin (first exile of Jeremiah 52:28) | seven year of Nebuchadnezzar II 597 - first year of Zedekiah 588 - BM38462 (July 15, -588 = lunar eclipse) seventeen year of Nebuchadnezzar II 587 - BM38462 (January 8, -587 = lunar eclipse) | fall of Jerusalem (second exile of Jeremiah 52:29: July 27, -587) 582 - third exile of Jeremiah 52:30 568 - VAT4956 (Nissanu 1 = April 22, -568 = new moon) thirty-seven year of Nebuchadnezzar II 562 - first year of Amel-Marduk/Evil-Merodach (Jeremiah 52:31) (BM80920 + BM58872) 560 - first year of Neriglissar 556 - first year of Labashi-Marduk 555 - first year of Nabonidus 554 - second year of Nabonidus (Real Chronicles: September 26, -554 = lunar eclipse) 546 - nineth year of Nabonidus (Stele of Addagoppe of Harran, mother of Nabunidus) 539 - fall of Babylonia (70 years end) (BM35382 = seventeen year of Nabonidus) | first year of Cyrus the Great 523 - seventh year of Cambyses II (Strm Kambys 400: July 16, -523 = lunar eclipse) 521 - first year of Darius I 517 - fourth year of Darius I (Zechariah 7:1-5: 70 years = 517 + 70 = 587) 515 - reconstruction of the temple
+John freeman “_In 609 Assyria was mentioned for the last time as a still existing but marginal formation in northwestern Mesopotamia. After that year Assyria ceased to exist._” - The Fall of Assyria, (Poznan: Adam Mickiewicz University Press, 1988), page 16.
I never truly understood this as a JW, and always found it confusing, and very vaguely plucked out. But the logic presented to me seemed sound.. Now I can see I was right all along, it really is just wishful thinking.
What a great and easy to understand video about an esoteric doctrine of this cult. You are right. The whole box and dice lives or dies on this crazy doctrine. As you have stated, there is no new information here. The thing is, your brief explanation is perfect for anybody who wants to get straight to the point. Who are the people pressing the "thumbs down" I can only imagine they spent their time watching your video with their fingers in their ears saying "lalalalala" This is one of your best Lloyd. Really enjoyed it!
Lloyd, why is there more mention of the the Jehovah Witnesses using Daniel’s prophesy to arrive at the 1914 date and so little said about how Russel used the measurements inside the great pyramid to arrive at the 1914? It was discussed extensively in the book, “The Divine Plan of the Ages”. This seems to be a really important point yet so few people know about it. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I think this is a huge point proving how crazy Jehovah’s Witnesses have been throughout the years. Is there something that I am not understanding correctly in all of this? TIA
Hi. I've just recently found your site and I'm enjoying your work. Quick question, how do the jw's reconcile 1914 with bible passages like 1 Peter 3:22 and Hebrews 10:12 which state clearly that Jesus was already reigning in heaven in the first century? I've not had the chance to ask them yet. Thanks.
Thanks for the hard work in producing this video. I needed something short and to the point on the subject 607 that I can use for JW relatives. This will really help. BTW the music was good, all the other dudes watching it with me liked it, but they are all in their 20s and 30s and all going to college. I'm the oldest one. There's 12 of us total watching it today. It's Christmas vacation, what can I say.
Hello Lloyd, thank you for a very interesting and well produced video. One of the challenges I give to my students is to investigate the number 2520. It is a very interesting number indeed! It is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 with no remainders. I should imagine that this facility of division is food and drink to the Numerologists who search for numbers in the bible. I forget, but wasn't there "time and times and half a time" as well? What was that all about? I honestly can't remember all the nonsense dogma anymore, especially as it is rarely referred to anymore in current WTBTS literature. Merry Christmas! Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Thank you for your research. In 20 years I have not heard a clearer explanation. Your explanation reminds me of 1 John 5:20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. Though I believe we are living in critical times hard to deal with, the WT maybe need to go back to Math school and honesty school and things like that. Cheers. I will remember 2 Kings 25:8,9 !!!!! And 587 BCE !!!!!!!
thanks for this explanation. so well done .its another milestone in my exit from the borg.ironicaly ive a 1888 bible dictionary ive had since before i became a jw in 60s whichv contains all this infomation and gives the correct 586 date .the watchtower has been smoke and mirrors . about blind trust .thank you.
to add to my last .interestingly the new book released at the conventions last year to replace the greatest man book from 1984 makes no mention of 1914 in the same sections that in the old book does i didnt notice it before .so this indicates a subtle downgrading of 1914 also .the new book does not refer to the un as the disgusting thing as does the 1984 book . perhaps "new light" will be released at next years conventions and 1914 will be moved up to 1934 and a whole raft of new truths will be revealed ???
Lloyd, This was glorious. Well played! I've always wanted something along these lines to refer to as the subject is kind of boring if not put together so brilliantly like ou have done. This is so necessary for blowing a cult out of the water. Bravo.
When I struggled with this, more knowledgeble JWs said that historian Rolf Furuli wrote a full rebuttal of Jonsson's book. I saw it quoted at wikipedia. I tried to buy that book. However, I couldn't find it anywhere. Also emailed Furuli, no response. I never understood why Watchtower never quotes Furuli or publishes his book. I guess they just do not care if there is no substance to their claims.
+Bastion Monk Hey that's interesting, I always wondered why the WT never quotes Furuli. But what you said make sense now, the WT just don't care if there is no substance to their claims. Holy shit!
Great video. Thank you. Just adding some clear questions: What about the inconsistency of using years of 360 days and counting on a scale with years of 365 days? The Gregorian calendar only been introduced in the middle age. And what about the change from 606 BC to 607 BC in 1942 after realizing that there was no year 0, so instead of changing the "prediction" they changed the date of Jerusalem's destruction. It shows how the organization doesn't care when it happened as long as any calculation matches 1914.
I found this very informative, not only that, the historical evidence is overwhelming pointing to the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BCE. The Tisha B'av is a annual fast day in Judaism which commemorates the anniversary of disasters in Jewish history, primarily the destruction of both the first Temple in 587 BCE by the Babylonians and the second Temple by the Romans in 70 CE. Does the WBTS know more than the Jewish nation, after all it was their Temple their history.
Lloyd, One thing you could add is how the Governing Body uses 1914 as an anchor to claiming Jesus named them as the Faithful & Discreet Slave in 1919. Once 1914 falls, so does 1919 and any claim that the Governing Body has that they have any authority from God.
Hi Lloyd, avid subscriber, promoter of your channel, and of JW Survey. You have some of the best material out on the web. I have to agree with several of the comments regarding the background music; was very distracting. It took away the seriousness of your great educational material. Out of all the videos you have made this one as hard to take serious. Can you post a version without the music? I refer to your channel in assisting ones to waking up to TTAT. Keep up the great work you and the others at JWSurvey do in exposing the WT cult. Much love from Southern California.
+RunFromTheTower Thanks for the kind words. The music, like the video, is intended to take an old, boring, subject and make it relevant for the younger generation who I am most anxious to reach out to. I have no plans to release an alternative version of this video without music. And I assure you if I did, it would be far less effective at holding the attention of viewers.
+John Cedars Understanding your intended audience now explains the production of the video with music. I'm all for reaching the younger generation with TTAT. Have a Happy Holiday with family and friends Lloyd. May you and the family have peace. Here's to looking forward to 2016. Life is to be enjoyed, not endured. Everything to live for, nothing to die for.
This really never made full sense to me growing up as JW. It has always been odd. We always adjust our interpretations of bible messages but still claim we have the accurate knowledge of truth. That's even more odd.
I would love to have this kind of high quality content in my native language. It could be possible to translate some of the main topics about Jehovah's Witnesses in other languages?
10,945th subscriber!! Finally got the guts to do it! Thanks John, I admire kind, common sensical style. And u were such a cute kid! We're the same age so we were probably twiddling our thumbs at the KH wondering if we could get away with another trip to the bathroom/water fountain just to break up the monotony around the same time. Ur so pleasant to watch, never let ppl stop u from being "juvenile", ur hilarious & it only points more clearly to the absurdity of jws teachings.
Love the video, but just want to point out it's Jeremiah 25:11-12 not; 29:11-12....Don't want anyone to think your turning into a GB member misquoting everything
Hey Lloyd and the wider audience. Just found one interesting thing today regarding this subject: *The WT 2011 nov 1 publication, page 22 footnote* says " *None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E* . , if you add the age of kings to one another, you arrive to 587, but this is only valid if they ruled in succession." They're essentially saying, "We couldn't find *any* secular person who says Jerusalem was destroyed in 607" because otherwise they would've quoted those, obviously. This can be a good line of reasoning when you're saying your disbeliefs.
Brilliant and informative video. I like the music and the style or the video, it is modern and easy to follow. I think this video will be so helpful for people! Love the bit at the end too... My thoughts exactly!!
A Convention a couple years ago warned brothers and sisters about getting together to discuss 1914 and other specific things in small groups for themselves. Watchtower knows whats going on. They are trying to curve the questioning about 1914. Questioning the Governing Body on anything is disobedience and rebelliousness. They are the older men and we respect thier insight.
Google "group polarization"....there is a reason why they don't want others studying the bible on their own. They prefer sheep, not critical thinkers...there is also a reason why they don't want you to seek higher education either.
By far the best laid out explanation I have every heard. I knew 607 was wrong but was never absolutely clear why and what was right. Going to watch this a few times to make the info stick.
2 Peter 3:8 8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
It is a very good presentation. However, I have one question- what do you think about Daniel 9:2 where it says that Jerusalem will be desolate for 70 years. What if the JW counted on the basis of this verse.
you did an absolutely phenomenal job with this. i can't imagine how much time you spend researching this stuff
So JWs implode their followers with forced study and forced daily reading of their printed literature. They have to read certain Watchtower and other rules forced literature for their Thursday night weekly meetings. God forbid they dont raise their hands to answer questions posed by the elders albeit perpetrators are called into the "little room" where they are humiliated and reprimanded by several elders. What I loathe and a massive confrontation I had was when this happened to my 86 year old Mother. These elders disregard all respect. They have no respect for others. I treat them with similar disrespect. Respect begets respect. I love laying into them. They usually have an answer for everything but when I confront them they look mortified and in a state of shock. My loathing of their destruction of my family continues.
Thank you ! Well documented and researched by you Lloyd
fantastic video. thank you for this. i was jehovahs witness for 18 years and this was explained to me at one point. i could even explain it myself, it's just been so long i didnt remember the entire "explanation"
Hands-down unequivocally the absolute best video on the subject on TH-cam
A few of you dear folks are saying you don't like the music. Though I do value the feedback, I think it's worth knowing that I made this video specifically with a younger audience in mind. Older ex-JWs might be fascinated with this subject, and will happily sit through hours of discussion on cuneiform tablets and end-time prophecy, but a younger TH-cam audience is more easily distracted. If you find yourself annoyed by the music, at least draw some solace from the notion that younger viewers, who stand to win the most by being saved from indoctrination, are being eased through an otherwise boring subject by it.
+John Cedars Well I liked the music! Then again, I'm part of a younger TH-cam audience who is more easily distracted. :-P Great video. I realize a person could go on for hours and hours on the various lines of evidence on this subject, but another favorite of mine is that Watchtower's own book, Insight on the Scriptures, will lead you to the 587/586 BCE date if you just do the math and count the lengths of kings' reigns from 539 BCE back.
+jdougdog You're very kind! The Insight technique is another great way of demonstrating the madness of 607. Thanks for mentioning it! :)
+John Cedars I'm 36 and usually do programming work for hours with techno blasting in my ears. - I consider myself young (ish) with an attention deficit disorder. Your target audience.
The issue here is not that there is music, but that it is loud enough that I cannot always understand what you are saying.
In addition, you may consider the language barrier. The first language of many MANY people is not English and thus, need to pay extra attention when they listen to your videos. Music simply makes it MORE difficult. I am not telling you to take all the music away... but lower it just enough to know that its there.
+stephane laliberte I did use Dijana as a test audience with this music, because obviously English is not her first language, but she said she could follow my reasoning and found the music complimentary rather than distracting - so this hasn't been an entirely arbitrary process. If the levels aren't to your satisfaction that will be more down to my lack of expertise and limited technical prowess than anything. But if it reassures you at all, I set the music to the lowest possible volume setting, and the dialogue to the maximum. They are not at the same levels - I at least made sure of that.
+John Cedars, You know, maybe one of the reasons it was more difficult for me this time around is that usually, I just play your videos in the background while I work. So, I do other things and still understand what you are saying. However, I find that with the music, I just can't.... Anyways... the content of what you just did there is still awesome. Keep up all the efforts you're putting in this.
Saw this on your FB page and was looking forward to watching it.
Thank you very much, I thoroughly enjoyed it, was easy to follow and debunked many of my previous thoughts on the matter. I never knew about the astronomy records which are watertight.
I spent the last 21years a jw, believing the 607bc date. 5yrs ago I randomly looked up my children's encyclopedia and first come across the 586/7 date. I remember feeling sick to my stomach, did a little research, then asking my PO Elder some questions before a meeting. He told me to get the material out of the KH.
It took another 5yrs, for me to get DF and endure 8months of shunning to finally wake up, do further research (many from your sites). I walked away April this year, never to return.
Thank you for your tireless work, you are awakening people, one by one.
I never understood the dates or calculations. Math is not my forte. However in my older years I now find history fascinating. That is what I hate the most. My lack of taking my education seriously. After all I didn’t need to pay attention. I just had to go in service and spew my memorized scriptures.
Thank you for the work you put into this.
This is the masterpiece that woke me up 5 years ago. Thanks for the great work Lloyd.
loved your excellent description of the truth. I was raised believing these dates and was blown away when I found your channel. thank you for bringing us into the light !!!
I was a JW for nearly 20 years and I never could understand how all the dates were supposed to make sense. Thank you for clearing it all up!
This video is awesome! The new music, the perfectly edited cut scenes, the audio seems better and it flowed really well. Obviously the work is speeding up in this time of the end!
Ironic is the fact that Russell himself pointed out that false dates and predictions brought reproach on God, and then proceeded to reproach God with false dates and predictions.
Read this article
Llyod,you are such a gift to me and my family.you and many other’s have helped me to break free from the jw cult.cant thank you enough. I am sending this to everyone I know.
I know this is an older topic, but I appreciate your coverage of it. Very clear and understandable delivery. TMS did you well, my brother. As you have time, mixing in older controversies with your latest updates would be welcome.
During COVID-19 I have found great purpose for my JW Bible. All my local markets are out of toilet paper, and now I have enough to last me until May, or June at least.
Lmao. We’re you joking about this
Had me in the first half; not gonna lie. 😆
Isaiah Chap 2 verse 22 : "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man,
Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"
Taking a few hours to research 1914/607 seems like a valuable balance to the hours and hours and hours of book study time I spent as a kid learning this mashup of time in the first place.
Shalom sir, the title of your video got my attention; great video--thanks for posting. Those are very strange teachings the Jehovahs have. I have a friend who attended/graduated from the Israel Institute of Biblical Studies and I have never heard any of them speak on a 607 BCE. Archaeologists are unanimous for the date of 587/586 BCE and your explanation to support this date is very accurate. On a kind note: The scripture you quoted at timer 16:52 is not Jeremiah 29:11-12, it's found in Jeremiah 25:11-12. Shalom!
I am soooo impressed by your research. Having a Masters degree in divinity, I know the Biblical history. However, I didn't know about the record-keeping of the Babylonians, and I especially found the astronomical evidence fascinating. Great job, thank you! I knew very little about JW's before I found you through Chris Shelton. I'm glad to know more about this group and its beliefs and practices.
No one asked.
I completely understand why this would be very important to wake some up. But honestly...This kind of doctrine was always lost on me. I woke up by paying attention to their basic nonsense beliefs and eventually stopped justifying god and his psychotic actions. Pioneering and pioneer school helped a lot too. The overwhelming ridiculousness of it all was just undeniable at that point.
Selina Lehnsherr Tell us more!
Well done sir! This is an excellent video. It's evident that you had to put in a lot of time and effort to make it. Thank you so much for all your hard work on our behalf.
You are my first subscription to truth and critical thinking I've cancelled my WT & A subscription...free at last!! Thanks John
This is one of your best videos ever in both style and content. Well done!
Emblems4Life does your religion join the military and vote in human politics?
Hello, I just wanna say thank you so much for all these videos. I am 23 and abandoned my aspirations well learning the apparent "truth" . Now I wanna catch all these missed years of my life. Thank you
Just a side note: the battle of Carchemish, where Nebuchadnezzar II defeated Egyptian Pharoah Necho II, happened in 605. That battle made Babylon the new, dominant world power. This was a major battle and it's being a matter of record is set. But Nebuchadnezzar fought this battle as a son of the King, Nabopolassar. Shortly after this victory, in the same year, King Nabopolassar died and Nebuchadnezzar became King of Babylon. If you believe Jeremiah was accurate, and you count 19 years from that year (605) you get to 586, which happens to be the same year historians say Jerusalem was besieged and then destroyed. Coincidentally, Babylonian chronicles also say that In the 11th year of Zedekiah, King of Judea, Nebuchadnezzar conquered the city and took Zedekiah captive. So, 11 years from 597 when he defeated Jehoiachin and installed Zedekiah, and that would be, tada, 586/587. If you believe in the bible, and you trust that the prophets of it tried their best to be accurate, you would find greater faith in accepting 586 as the date of destruction because it proves Jeremiah was accurate. I don't know how you can have one without the other.
Great video and summary. At the end of the day, who really has reason to lie about when Jerusalem was destroyed? To the historians it's just a date of an occurrence that happened thousands of years ago in the past. To the Jehovah's Witnesses religion, their entire religion, teachings on the last days, and when the "faithful slave" was selected all hinge on 607 being right - and clearly it is not. The JW organization will never apologize for insisting on this date and their false prophecies regarding the last days and 1914, and they couldn't care a less how many people they have mislead and disfellowshipped for disagreeing with them, nor how many lives they have ruined. New evidence is all that historians would need to change their minds on when Jerusalem was destroyed. Religions like the Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand will never change their minds on when they believe it was destroyed no matter how much evidence proves them to be false. To the contrary, they would do their best to suppress it.
they are finished without 1914. i cant imagine how they could wriggle out of it now. ive been in jws since 60s now trying to escape by fading out
When I did my research about 607, and realized it was false, I wondered, "what else are they lying about?"
+Susan Gaskin
Witnesses would say that the historians are part of Satan's world, hence Satan has a reason to lie about it, so by extension, the historians have a reason to lie as well.
When you believe that there's this supernatural struggle between good and evil, any evidence that challenges your beliefs can be easily dismissed as Satanic Propaganda.
ogama843 yes many will leave because of the going digital.however i do think they gota pull a big rabbitt out of the hat soon because of the bad press and the Royal commision starting in the uk . They need a diversion urgently . Perhaps they will change the JW into jesus witneses. That would creat a new begining for them.
Yes you right .they have blocked jesus for so many years he will bring them down .the gb is so stuborn they will continue their hard line until they die then creat new clones of themselvs to carry on the lies. They dont care about the sheep .
+john cedars WOW!!! This was amazing. It's true what you said early on-- this video debunked WT chronology early on, but completely destroyed it as the video went on. The video was very well made and thoughtful. The music threw me off at first, but it didn't distract me at all. Keep up the great work. I faded about a year and half ago and I started doing research on various aspects of witness teachings. I already was skeptical and videos like this and research just confirmed what I felt. I also appreciate your non-religious tone. I stay clear from religious "apostates". I'm done with religion and god, so your videos and JW Survey website are great for me. Thanks!!!
All I can say after each video of yours I watch is a sincere and very heartfelt thank you.
Great job Lloyd.
Watchtower says Jesus was enthroned as King in October 1914, then war broke out in heaven and Satan was hurled down to earth bringing woe to the earth.
I don't know how long it takes to war in heaven but even if Satan was hurled down to earth on October 2nd, World War 1 was already raging by then and wasn't caused by Satan being thrown down to earth.
As a JW I always found this a bit odd.
+Greg Evans Hmm good point!
In all Honestly try believe what other religions believe in ummm like Muslim for an example.
I’d find it hard to believe wars take place in heaven.
…also, the then recent First and Second Balkan Wars!
Lloyd, excellent video! I wanted to add my two cents about the music. I am 60 and I did not find the music distracting but rather liked it. I thought the whole video was well put together and enjoyed John Redwood reading the scriptures. Very well done. Valerie O'Connor
Excellent! Great to see you getting on with real activism. Much appreciated.
This video is tops. Everything about it. I didn't want it to end. If JW goes down, you can make history documentary videos. Even the music is spot on, energy and volume just right.
Isaiah Chap 2 verse 22 : "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man,
Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"
This is a very good explanation of known dates. As someone with an interest in astronomy, I agree with this and enjoyed your discussion..I've never been a JW, but they come round on occasion and I like to talk with them asking "innocent" questions designed to help wake up a JW. I know I"ve had an effect on a young man in tow of a woman JW. She left as fast as she could pry him away from my "question." I can only hope that it helped him to see the problems with the teachings of the wittnesses. I tried not to reattle her, but just ask investigative questions that anyone could be asking.
Great video! I can see why it took you a while 😊 Well produced, thoroughly researched and brilliantly argued
good stuff. im dyslexic with numbers,but have gone outa my way b4 working out & researching these dates. I congratulate you on explaining the chronological dates in an easy & manageable way for someone like myself.thanx & gd work!
this is the first John Cedars aka Lloyd Evans video I ever saw, circa near the beginning of 2020. Knowing that 607 bce was a made-up time for the destruction of Jerusalem was a huge step in my recovery from this org. Before I started watching these videos, I was PIMO (Physically In Mentally Out) and I had already sensed some problems with many JW teachings, but merely considered them harmless practises and stored my doubts "on the shelf." This video started a chain reaction that led to (and is still leading to) my mental freedom. Thank you so much for all you do Lloyd Evans. Please keep it up for a long, long time!
Ive always been very confused about the 607 and 1914 issue regarding the Watchtower teachings well done for putting this video togehter hopefully it will knock some sense into exisiting witnesses heads.
Thank you for that information. So important to know . Wish I had known 50 years ago when I was baptized. Better late, though, than never knowing . Yours videos are so very helpful.
Thankyou for this information, i had no idea about this date, ive shared this with my sister who had been disfellowshiped many years ago, for living with the person she loves, and is still with, she will be taken back by this information
Thankyou John
Another great one, Lloyd. Thanks for the links as well. I'm using this information on a JW as we speak. Great timing.
I love the music! And thank you so much for spending the time on this. You know who I am going to be showing this to 😉
Thank you for this video. It was very easily understood and I'm sure it will reach a lot of people if they are brave enough to watch it. I also enjoyed the music. It made a dull subject seem upbeat somehow. Thanks again! I'm grateful for all your hard work! Much love to you, your wife and your little baby daughter from Kentucky, USA. You should give us an update on your daughter! I'm sure she's such a happy little thing!
i just dont believe we should be interpreting dreams. thats why i dont believe jehovahs witnesses can interpret nebuchadnezzar's dream about the tree, and why i dont accept the 1914 teaching
Telltale do you think Nebuchadnezzar had a bit too much to drink or something the night that he had that dream?
So what should we do with the dream? Nothing ? Ya great idea ! 👍
Sounds like an archetypal dream on the theme of "Jack and the Beanstalk". You could do some great Jungian analysis on the Nebuchadnezzar story, going wild is his shadow aspect breaking out of a poor integrated personality. And who was the "giant" of Nebuchadnezzar's "beanstalk" who fell? That was Nebuchadnezzar himself, his influence visible across the known world.
Telltale it makes sense however, that 1914 is the year as JW say the year Jesus was crowned king. Satan Cast from heaving and causing great havoc on earth.
The Bible says that God revealed to Daniel the dreams and the interpretation of them (2). Read Daniel and you will see. You may as read the whole took and learn.
Great job Lloyd. Loved the quick moving presentation.
Thanks Loyd I like how you condensed something so complicated and made it easy to understand.
Bravo! I wish TH-cam had been around in the early 70s, so much of my life would not have been so ridiculously squandered.
The JW's would have went belly up in the 80's of YT was around then!!
this 607 thing is what allowed me to just walk away from jw's with no regrets or what-ifs.
i actually decided to leave wt because i was noticing gross hypocracy on all levels of command in the kh, and in all locations. but i was still thinking in the back of my head "what if they are right and the end comes and i die forever?"
that thought didn't last long because i found another youtube video discussing this subject of 607/1914 with the astronomy evidence. that's all i needed.
if you take away 607 you take away 1914 and you take away the last days and you take away jesus being enthroned and you take away satan controlling the earth and you take away armageddon and you take away jw's being chosen and you take away the preaching work having any meaning.
the gb have done everyone a great service by making this easily debunked teaching the very backbone of everything they believe in.
---
all of the shunning stuff and child molestation stuff is bad and can lend evidence that the wt is not god's "chosen servant", but it's circumstancial at best, it's not definitive. the 607 thing though is definitive. you can't recover any wt teachings after that one date is debunked.
thanks for the video. and awesome music!
Sourcedrop what's the other video
WT fits the prophecy k
If you "die forever" according to them you will become NOTHING, no conscience whatsoever...so you would not even know you "missed out" on anything...
so far Jerimiah 29:11, 12 is quite a solid argument.
Witnesses just dont know what to do with "these nations" and "70 years fulfilled...call Babylon into account" parts.
im still learning, but its a lot like the trinity doctrine...either you take a verse in the bible to mean that theres a triun or you take the same verse to mean the opposite. its all about what you want to see
647 - first year of Kandalanu (BM76738: the planet Saturn: June 24, -647 and July 18, -647)
646 - second year of Kandalanu (BM76813: the planet Saturn: June 28, -646 and July 31, -646)
625 - first year of Nabopolassar
609 - fall of Assyrian (70 years start). | first year of Jehoiakim by Necho II (Battle of Megiddo: BM21901)
605 - BM22047 + BM21946: first year of Nebuchadnezzar II (Battle of Carchemish) | Four year of Jehoiakim by Nebuchadnezzar II (Daniel 1:1)
598 - first year of Jehoiachin (first exile of Jeremiah 52:28) | seven year of Nebuchadnezzar II
597 - first year of Zedekiah
588 - BM38462 (July 15, -588 = lunar eclipse) seventeen year of Nebuchadnezzar II
587 - BM38462 (January 8, -587 = lunar eclipse) | fall of Jerusalem (second exile of Jeremiah 52:29: July 27, -587)
582 - third exile of Jeremiah 52:30
568 - VAT4956 (Nissanu 1 = April 22, -568 = new moon) thirty-seven year of Nebuchadnezzar II
562 - first year of Amel-Marduk/Evil-Merodach (Jeremiah 52:31) (BM80920 + BM58872)
560 - first year of Neriglissar
556 - first year of Labashi-Marduk
555 - first year of Nabonidus
554 - second year of Nabonidus (Real Chronicles: September 26, -554 = lunar eclipse)
546 - nineth year of Nabonidus (Stele of Addagoppe of Harran, mother of Nabunidus)
539 - fall of Babylonia (70 years end) (BM35382 = seventeen year of Nabonidus) | first year of Cyrus the Great
523 - seventh year of Cambyses II (Strm Kambys 400: July 16, -523 = lunar eclipse)
521 - first year of Darius I
517 - fourth year of Darius I (Zechariah 7:1-5: 70 years = 517 + 70 = 587)
515 - reconstruction of the temple
brilliant chart. ive been ages trying to get to the 609 .you have mad that clear . goes well with video. thank you.
+John freeman “_In 609 Assyria was mentioned for the last time as a still existing but marginal formation in northwestern Mesopotamia. After that year Assyria ceased to exist._” - The Fall of Assyria, (Poznan: Adam Mickiewicz University Press, 1988), page 16.
+Joshuanjtg2 Damn!
Thanks for this... really informative
another well presented video on a important subject in the Jehovah's Witness world making the subject matter much clearer for many
I never truly understood this as a JW, and always found it confusing, and very vaguely plucked out. But the logic presented to me seemed sound.. Now I can see I was right all along, it really is just wishful thinking.
Wow what a great video, thank you Lloyd for all your hard work
Well done on this, particularly informing was the quotes from the 19th century, thanks.
- John Cedars the way you respond back, is so pleasant. You respond with such understanding and patience. Very beautiful to see.
What a great and easy to understand video about an esoteric doctrine of this cult. You are right. The whole box and dice lives or dies on this crazy doctrine. As you have stated, there is no new information here. The thing is, your brief explanation is perfect for anybody who wants to get straight to the point. Who are the people pressing the "thumbs down" I can only imagine they spent their time watching your video with their fingers in their ears saying "lalalalala" This is one of your best Lloyd. Really enjoyed it!
Lloyd, why is there more mention of the the Jehovah Witnesses using Daniel’s prophesy to arrive at the 1914 date and so little said about how Russel used the measurements inside the great pyramid to arrive at the 1914? It was discussed extensively in the book, “The Divine Plan of the Ages”. This seems to be a really important point yet so few people know about it. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I think this is a huge point proving how crazy Jehovah’s Witnesses have been throughout the years. Is there something that I am not understanding correctly in all of this? TIA
Hi. I've just recently found your site and I'm enjoying your work. Quick question, how do the jw's reconcile 1914 with bible passages like 1 Peter 3:22 and Hebrews 10:12 which state clearly that Jesus was already reigning in heaven in the first century?
I've not had the chance to ask them yet.
Thanks.
Amazing job on this video! Thank you for your research and logical presentation.
Great video and explanation, thanks JC for ur time and effort. Cheers from JJJ-Australia
Thanks for the hard work in producing this video. I needed something short and to the point on the subject 607 that I can use for JW relatives. This will really help. BTW the music was good, all the other dudes watching it with me liked it, but they are all in their 20s and 30s and all going to college. I'm the oldest one. There's 12 of us total watching it today. It's Christmas vacation, what can I say.
+bear yogi Thanks Yogi! ;)
Put that in your kingdom hall and smoke it watchtower BOOM!!!!
Antonio Vázquez kingdom bong!
Did you know that you can use pages from the JW bible to roll doobies with? Yep. Did that when I was 15......shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Antonio Vázquez did you say Sha-Boom senior?
Hello Lloyd, thank you for a very interesting and well produced video.
One of the challenges I give to my students is to investigate the number 2520. It is a very interesting number indeed!
It is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 with no remainders. I should imagine that this facility of division is food and drink to the Numerologists who search for numbers in the bible.
I forget, but wasn't there "time and times and half a time" as well? What was that all about? I honestly can't remember all the nonsense dogma anymore, especially as it is rarely referred to anymore in current WTBTS literature.
Merry Christmas!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Thank you for your research. In 20 years I have not heard a clearer explanation. Your explanation reminds me of 1 John 5:20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. Though I believe we are living in critical times hard to deal with, the WT maybe need to go back to Math school and honesty school and things like that. Cheers. I will remember 2 Kings 25:8,9 !!!!! And 587 BCE !!!!!!!
I so appreciate your making this movie.
It was a sound move to ditch the distracting music found in this old video but missing from more recent ones.
Excellent😉 Loved your presentation on the subject matter AND the music...Stay Strong Lloyd🎯😎
Excellent presentation , hardly any ridicule, straight facts given, will be effective for any sincere true God seeking person.
So well researched Lloyd excellent video blew my mind learnt so much thanks will be sharing this!!
Thank you for explaining this so well. It was easy to follow.
There is one reason why the WT sticks with the 607 wrong date. Without 607 the numbers will not jive.
thanks for this explanation. so well done .its another milestone in my exit from the borg.ironicaly ive a 1888 bible dictionary ive had since before i became a jw in 60s whichv contains all this infomation and gives the correct 586 date .the watchtower has been smoke and mirrors . about blind trust .thank you.
to add to my last .interestingly the new book released at the conventions last year to replace the greatest man book from 1984 makes no mention of 1914 in the same sections that in the old book does i didnt notice it before .so this indicates a subtle downgrading of 1914 also .the new book does not refer to the un as the disgusting thing as does the 1984 book . perhaps "new light" will be released at next years conventions and 1914 will be moved up to 1934 and a whole raft of new truths will be revealed ???
+John freeman to add 1914 mentioned once on page 313 as the begining of the lords day. just once in the book. as far as i can see .
Lloyd,
This was glorious. Well played!
I've always wanted something along these lines to refer to as the subject is kind of boring if not put together so brilliantly like ou have done.
This is so necessary for blowing a cult out of the water.
Bravo.
+Watchtower&Awakening Thanks my friend! :)
Isaiah Chap 2 verse 22 : "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man,
Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"
When I struggled with this, more knowledgeble JWs said that historian Rolf Furuli wrote a full rebuttal of Jonsson's book. I saw it quoted at wikipedia. I tried to buy that book. However, I couldn't find it anywhere. Also emailed Furuli, no response. I never understood why Watchtower never quotes Furuli or publishes his book. I guess they just do not care if there is no substance to their claims.
+Bastion Monk Hey that's interesting, I always wondered why the WT never quotes Furuli. But what you said make sense now, the WT just don't care if there is no substance to their claims. Holy shit!
Great video. Thank you. Just adding some clear questions: What about the inconsistency of using years of 360 days and counting on a scale with years of 365 days? The Gregorian calendar only been introduced in the middle age. And what about the change from 606 BC to 607 BC in 1942 after realizing that there was no year 0, so instead of changing the "prediction" they changed the date of Jerusalem's destruction. It shows how the organization doesn't care when it happened as long as any calculation matches 1914.
I found this very informative, not only that, the historical evidence is overwhelming pointing to the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BCE. The Tisha B'av is a annual fast day in Judaism which commemorates the anniversary of disasters in Jewish history, primarily the destruction of both the first Temple in 587 BCE by the Babylonians and the second Temple by the Romans in 70 CE. Does the WBTS know more than the Jewish nation, after all it was their Temple their history.
Clear, well-edited, informative and concise! Great Job! ;)
Lloyd, One thing you could add is how the Governing Body uses 1914 as an anchor to claiming Jesus named them as the Faithful & Discreet Slave in 1919. Once 1914 falls, so does 1919 and any claim that the Governing Body has that they have any authority from God.
amazing, thanks for your fine effort, it is much appreciated and very much needed.
Just finished watching your new video on why watchtower no longer needs 1914. This video is a great in depth summary
Hi Lloyd, avid subscriber, promoter of your channel, and of JW Survey. You have some of the best material out on the web.
I have to agree with several of the comments regarding the background music; was very distracting. It took away the seriousness of your great educational material. Out of all the videos you have made this one as hard to take serious. Can you post a version without the music? I refer to your channel in assisting ones to waking up to TTAT.
Keep up the great work you and the others at JWSurvey do in exposing the WT cult. Much love from Southern California.
+RunFromTheTower Thanks for the kind words. The music, like the video, is intended to take an old, boring, subject and make it relevant for the younger generation who I am most anxious to reach out to. I have no plans to release an alternative version of this video without music. And I assure you if I did, it would be far less effective at holding the attention of viewers.
+John Cedars Understanding your intended audience now explains the production of the video with music. I'm all for reaching the younger generation with TTAT.
Have a Happy Holiday with family and friends Lloyd. May you and the family have peace.
Here's to looking forward to 2016. Life is to be enjoyed, not endured. Everything to live for, nothing to die for.
Anyone know if Lloyd Evans has a subject index somewhere?
I don't think so. Are you looking for something in particular? Maybe I can help you.
Very informative.... very well produced! Thank you!
i think you did an amazing job at this video. even cleared up a few more things for me. Thank you
This really never made full sense to me growing up as JW. It has always been odd. We always adjust our interpretations of bible messages but still claim we have the accurate knowledge of truth. That's even more odd.
I would love to have this kind of high quality content in my native language. It could be possible to translate some of the main topics about Jehovah's Witnesses in other languages?
I was thinking the same thing
So great to see this. Thank you so much.
10,945th subscriber!! Finally got the guts to do it! Thanks John, I admire kind, common sensical style. And u were such a cute kid! We're the same age so we were probably twiddling our thumbs at the KH wondering if we could get away with another trip to the bathroom/water fountain just to break up the monotony around the same time. Ur so pleasant to watch, never let ppl stop u from being "juvenile", ur hilarious & it only points more clearly to the absurdity of jws teachings.
Love the video, but just want to point out it's Jeremiah 25:11-12 not; 29:11-12....Don't want anyone to think your turning into a GB member misquoting everything
Hey Lloyd and the wider audience. Just found one interesting thing today regarding this subject: *The WT 2011 nov 1 publication, page 22 footnote* says " *None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E* . , if you add the age of kings to one another, you arrive to 587, but this is only valid if they ruled in succession."
They're essentially saying, "We couldn't find *any* secular person who says Jerusalem was destroyed in 607" because otherwise they would've quoted those, obviously.
This can be a good line of reasoning when you're saying your disbeliefs.
Videos like this make me proud to sponsor you through Patreon. Keep up the good work.
Brilliant and informative video. I like the music and the style or the video, it is modern and easy to follow. I think this video will be so helpful for people! Love the bit at the end too... My thoughts exactly!!
Very well put together thanks
Well done cedars, well done!
That's a pretty impressive collection of old publications you have there.
A Convention a couple years ago warned brothers and sisters about getting together to discuss 1914 and other specific things in small groups for themselves. Watchtower knows whats going on. They are trying to curve the questioning about 1914. Questioning the Governing Body on anything is disobedience and rebelliousness. They are the older men and we respect thier insight.
Google "group polarization"....there is a reason why they don't want others studying the bible on their own. They prefer sheep, not critical thinkers...there is also a reason why they don't want you to seek higher education either.
Thanks for the info Lloyd, as a former JW myself, this is interesting
By far the best laid out explanation I have every heard. I knew 607 was wrong but was never absolutely clear why and what was right. Going to watch this a few times to make the info stick.
2 Peter 3:8
8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
It is a very good presentation. However, I have one question- what do you think about Daniel 9:2 where it says that Jerusalem will be desolate for 70 years. What if the JW counted on the basis of this verse.
Thank you for all of your videos! 😀❤️
Thanks for explaining this. I always wondered.