Why Toyota Hybrids Are So Popular
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2024
- We take a quick look at the history of the Toyota Hybrid to understand why they have become so popular and how the concept has finally reached mainstream acceptance. We discuss the pros, cons, and philosophy behind innovation and technology and why cutting-edge is often short-lived. There are many brands in the EV and Hybrid space. Which do you consider a leader, Hyundai, Tesla, Lucid, Rivian, Ford, Chevy, or Toyota?
#cars #engineering #technology
Index:
00:00 Intro
00:38 The History of Honda and Toyota Hybrids
1:42 Why Toyota Won the Hybrid Battle
2:21 Technology is Not Innovation
6:31 Driving Discussion - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
A luxury experience is not knowing my dealer/mechanic by first name basis.
Underrated comment.
Even better, I know him, he is me. In my case. 😁
5 star comment.
Yes 😂
Holy cow....this hits home and is so true..!
I’m a Toyota tech and last week I serviced the hybrid system on a Gen 1 Prius. Not replacing the battery, just the CONNECTORS. The battery was fine, and the connections were throwing codes which shut off the hybrid system as a safety precaution. The little beast had over 300k on the ODO! I think the Tundra using the old style battery will work just fine.
Still on the original battery from the beginning?
toyota batteries are rated for 25 years. am i wrong?
I drive a 2015 camry hybrid and i do the transmission service every 50k miles
The gen one Prius….the 10 series? Nhw10 what a dog those were
What is amazing about these prius’s, where I live taxi/rideshare drivers use these 2005-2008 ones all over and most them convert those cars to lpg. That way you get $2.6 for gal of LPG and it goes 33mpg. It might not be impressive in the States, but this is basically cheaper than public transport in Europe where only luxury cars even go to 3liters cc. And these monsters will do at least 300k miles before they are discarded due to rust mostly.
Friend powers his house with batt from his old Prius. Car is crispy but batt fine.
Toyota's E-CVT is a completely different design using planetary gears with an electric motor drive to achieve infinite gear ratios that is much more reliable than what you find in all the other brands than use the belt system. It's so different Toyota should have called it something else without CVT in the name! CVT gets a bad name from the belt driven ones that have a shelf life.
How about Electrically Variable Transmission -EVT
@@laipply1 Are they even transmissions at all any more, at least in the broader sense? I've seen a breakdown of Honda's current "eCVT" and there is no shifting. Honda uses a dual clutch, one for electric and one for the ICE. The ICE kicks in for direct power only at highway speed, and the electric motor doesn't need shifting at all. So there's just forward and reverse. It's my understanding that Toyota's planetary gear achieves the same result, although with a "B" gear for braking.
@@dianewilson7415their powersplit transmission has always been a motor-generator unit. Never once did it have step ratio gears lol
While Honda systems don't shift at all, Toyotas systems can vary great ratios infinitely (like a cvt) but it doesn't "shift" (also like a cvt). But it's so complex and different from cvts or even any other form of transmission that it should've had it's seperate identity yes
Not gonna lie, the CVT part did turn me off after having owned an Altima for 5 years and dealing with that piece. However, after doing some homework on the eCVT and how it was det up and operated, I have no doubt our Crown will last for many years and miles.
This is the result of over 20 years of constant development. I love enthusiast cars but as this channel, rightfully, acknowleges cars are expensive. Toyota is one of the few manufacturers selling a well developed product that makes sense. As much as I want a sports car or sports sedan, a hybrid Toyota makes sense for the everyday tasks we all need to do.
I wouldn't always call them well developed. I mean they are, but for a time about 15 years in the past. They don't take as many risks, at least until recently, and although I hate driving mine, it starts every time.
I remember when the Prius first became popular, and the big worry was that the hybrid battery pack would die shortly after the car was out of warranty, and cost more to replace than the entire car was worth in resale value.
That didn't happen, and as the platform began to age it became apparent that in many cases the battery might just outlast the car itself, many of which were still going strong after ten or more years of service.
It happened to the mechanic that did my last inspection. IIR 60kish miles. Rare but it does happen.
so many los angeles taxi drivers swear by their hybrid toyotas.
200, 300k around town driving and they would agree.
@@paulpellico3797 in Germany in starting to see more and more Toyota as taxi, uber.... way more than other brands and it says alot
pre pandemic, the cost of a battery replacement on a prius was about 800-1000 bucks where I live.
Look up Toyota hybrid battery failure. There’s tons of them. They are not perfect or invincible like many making them sound like to be. However, just like he said, Toyota makes those batteries reasonably serviceable so it doesn’t cost you a whole car price to fix it.
We got to 70k miles in our prius prime and it needed nothing except for oil changes every 5k miles. 50-55mpg even driving with a heavy foot. This is luxury like I've never experienced before.
In fairness I’ve owned BMWs that have done that also, if you are doing your oil changes 5k miles, most cars will run fine.
Did you have to replace the brakes?
@@nucleargrizzly1776 that’s called consumable maintenance. So yes, brakes, tires, topping off windshield wiper fluid, etc lol
@@ConfusedDesertCobra-kw9fc Do you remember the cost?
Not sure anyone would use luxurious to describe a Prius.
Got me watching a whole ass video about a prius... damn you're good.
I really liked the honesty and down-to-earth nature of this video. One thing that most media outlets refuse to touch on is reliability - and that’s likely the prime reason that people buy Toyotas. At the same time, it seems to be a “taboo subject” for a lot of content creators, so thank you for continuing to mention it in your reviews.
It’s not taboo, they just talk from their own experience. Since their experience lasts for probably a week, you can’t test reliability. This is why I still love classic magazine style reviews and their creators. Why? Because they often do long term test and report back. On TH-cam, nobody seems to care.
All other car reviewers act like all cars are equally good and the only difference is you might have to pay more for some other feature in a different brand. Oh, you want this? Get the Jeep. You want that? Get the BMW. Oh, but the BMW with that feature is $800 more. It's up to you if you want to pay that much for that feature.
Then you have the Jeep Wrangler 4xe getting recalled because the lithium nickel-manganese-cobalt battery is installed inside the passenger compartment and spews poisonous and explosive fumes into the passenger compartment when it goes into thermal runaway (because of course some companies aren't going to bother properly engineering or testing anything, ever!).
And now Stellantis was given $15 billion by the government to build a $500 million battery plant in Windsor. There's a complete disconnect between the market and what's being made because governments have gotten so involved. Where is Stellantis going to use these batteries? We don't have enough electrical generating capacity in North America as it is. Canada is taking in 1.6 million immigrants a year (like 16 million for the United States). We're not going to have generating capacity for those people, much less electric cars.
@@ironbolt2678 But some things are just common sense if you know or understand cars even a little bit. Who is going to be able to repair this in the future? Are parts going to be available? If so, how much will they be? Most full EVs are meant to be disposable, unfortunately. As far as reliability, again, history is your freind. If Jeep were unreliable before EVs, they are not going to get more reliable all of a sudden.
@@ironbolt2678Even though the cars he reviews are usually coming from high end or luxury brands, Harry Metcalfe of Harry's Garage (and also the co-founder of EVO magazine) is the one guy i know who actually drives those cars daily and tells us in detail the pros and cons over a longer period of time.
@@wojtek-33 "Who is going to be able to repair this in the future? Are parts going to be available? " - There's plenty of data available on 1st generation Prius vehicles that already answers/debunks your questions; and that available data proves that long-term repairs and parts availability for them is no more of a concern than with a conventional ICE vehicle.
Toyota/Lexus hybrids are just the electrified option that makes the most sense. When people think of hybrids it’s usually a Toyota hybrid. And for good reason. I see a lot of Toyota hybrid vehicles whether it’s the RAV4, Highlander, Prius, etc. Toyota’s hybrid system is already really good and like Mark said, you don’t have to worry about electric only range or be stuck anywhere. That gasoline engine will immediately help you get back on the road and give you that assistance. I’m a big fan of Toyota hybrids and I’m glad that they are continuously investing in that technology.
Toyotas ecvt system is one of the best non-performance drivetrains ever made. Every aspect is so reliable and well thought out. A marvel of engineering
Yes, Battery driven motors can be performance pushers or fuel eco supporters. Buy an expensive (error prone) Mercedes sporty car and get the final e-boost feeling of a Tesla or buy from Toyota’s reliable eco system.
It's actually a PSD......Toyota calls it Ecvt to avoid confusion....you can google it to see how it operates, They literally Don't fail.
i drove it... the pedal on right side is just to regulate cabin noise...
Having experienced a Range Extended EV the past 4 years (i3 REx) I learned:
- The 2 fuels are complementary: Cheap, clean residential electric gets you the first 120 miles each day.
- Easily found, quickly replenished, energy dense petrol carries you "perpetually" further if on a long road trip.
Frankly, Toyota's 40-50 mile range Primes allow for 15,000 miles all-electric each year, which is plenty.
Ironically, the Chevy Volt had that formula first, but too few (me included) understood the benefit 15 years ago.
Currently own a Gen1 Volt, and as far as the PHEV setup goes, it's been fantastic. On average, I've only had to fillup twice a year since I bought it in 2017. Unfortunately, it's still a 12 year old Chevy, so the rest of the car is starting to show its age lol. If I can fight my midlife crisis urges, definitely looking hard at a Prius Prime as my next vehicle.
It's a shame the Volt was cancelled, it was the only PHEV I gave serious consideration to because of it's fairly respectable range. Everything I've seen since has had kind of a paltry electric range - 40-50 miles is not nothing but it definitely wants for more, my ebike can ride farther on a charge than some of these PHEV cars. Wound up going fully electric, but I think there's a lot of potential in the REx and PHEV formula, they just need to get the range ratios right. I'd say that a good starting point would be matching the real world range of a 2011 Nissan Leaf, 30-ish kWh battery pack and a
If they hadn't been so adamant about calling it a range extended EV instead of a hybrid, I think a lot more people would have considered one. Their reasons for not calling it a hybrid were largely semantic (and marketing based), but I think it ended up hurting them more than helping them. It was fun to raise the hackles of Volt owners by asking them how they liked their new hybrid though....
Well it was a Chevy so a lot of people were concerned
I love our RAV4 hybrid, really nice when you are stuck in traffic, at a light, or in a drive thru you aren't wasting gas. Gets about 40mpg even with heavy highway use.
.. but does it consume engine oil? allegedly, the low tension piston rings in combination with the 0W16 or 0W20 recommended oils cause massive engine oil consumption, even up to a quart/1000 miles
Are you experiencing the same ?
@@ghassanalfarra8935 22k miles no oil consumption
@@ghassanalfarra8935my rav4 does not, never even heard of this before
@@ghassanalfarra8935that was the old one. 2018 and up are good
My Dad likes the hybrid because he can drive a much further distance without refueling when he goes out for cigarettes.
I hope he comes back soon….it’s been a few weeks now
thank god the top comment is as troll-y as it feels to be force fed EVs and hybrids
@@raymond_rnt
Hybrids are okay, at least you can still fill it up like a regular ICE car
EVs are straight cancer though, genuinely, leave them to scooters and light transport, not cars
He's probably just checking how far he can get.
Too bad used ones cost a bit.
@@Patient_Lion_BS What a bunch of ignorant nonsense. Crude Oil based fuel and their localized combustion is literally way more cancer causing than EVs simply due to the organic chemistry of HYDROCARBONs. Aromatic Hydrocarbons just happen to potently screw up the biological process of Carbon Based life forms. Even Coal and Gas burnt in power stations is way less cancer causing due to different chemical makeup and distance location.
You are soo brainwashed by ignorant political agenda trying to dictate science and engineering. While ignoring the real world facts.
As the owner of a 2023 Lexus ES300h as my first hybrid, I'm in love. The eCVT transmission doesn't exhibit the rubber band feeling associated with regular CVT, because there is no belt/chain, it feels more like driving a 1 speed automatic, and the electric torque from takeoff is silky smooth and silent, then the gentle rumble of the petrol motor that picks up is really like the best of both worlds. Plus I'm getting 48MPG combined, but realistically any fuel savings go out the window when you have to pay $$$ for a replacement battery in 10-15 years, but fuel savings aside the hybrid actually contributes to the feeling of luxury, the stepless transmission, the smooth takeoffs, the gliding around town whisper quite which also enhances the audio quality from the Pioneer or Mark Levinson sound system. Plus you know it's going to be reliable.
Great video. Toyota seems to really understand their customer. I’ve seen stats that Toyota owners keep their cars longer than the average owner.
Bought a 2005 Camry SE V6 in 2004. I'm still driving it because it requires almost no maintenance, parts never fail, powerful engine and its fun to drive. Must be among the world's best cars ever made.
I bought a Toyota Hybrid for several reasons. They are extremely reliable, fuel efficient, high resale and I like all the great engineering that went into it. I've had mine for about 2.5 years now and don't regret it. It's been flawlessly reliable, lifetime average is 37 mpg and judging by the selling prices I see online, I could likely sell it for almost what I paid for it for 2.5 years ago.
That's what I don't understand with you toyota drivers, you claim car is reliabiale and can last many miles and yet yall don't keep them that long, what's the point of driving a slow boring car if you aren't going to keep it long term, at that point get something more fun and bring some joy in your life
@@i.d.6492 ? I like to keep cars long term. That's how you get your money's worth out of them (assuming they are reliable). I plan on keeping it at least 10 years. And my car isn't slow.
@@jeffer1101 so you're telling toyota hybrids aren't slow? The most you get is 220-230 hp out of most Toyotas on the road today and that's not even whp. 10 years is roughly 100K miles maybe little less with average driving. 99.9% of vehicles today are easily capable of reaching that number and more
@@i.d.6492 No, they aren't slow, but that is also a relative word. You don't buy a hybrid to set lap times with, but my car can do a 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds. That's in line with most regular vehicles. It also uses half the fuel of its non-hybrid counterpart. Toyota hybrid vehicles are also the most reliable vehicles on the planet, so keeping them long term is simple. Also, the extra cost for a hybrid version is only about $2500, which is easily returned in fuel savings in a couple of years. Then I also get much longer life out of brakes and there's a lot of components I never have to worry about replacing, like alternators, starter motors and potential issues with automatic or manual transmissions (like valve bodies, clutches, etc).
@@jeffer1101 the gas is never an issue for me, smiles per miles is. I'm all about experience and good memories when it comes to driving and hybrid vehicles will never give me that. I'd rather get miata or k5gt any day. Fun to drive cheap to maintain and put smile on your face, can't ever to that with hybrid because you've given up the fun and experience for city mpgs only. Because on highway hybrid is useless
5:21 You NAILED it, Mark!
"You just don't care" when battery is expended on a PHEV.
Savagegeese, thanks for making this great video. I recently brought a 2024 Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid, previously owning a 2010 Toyota Camry SE V6, and it will be difficult to go back to an ICE vehicle due to the benefits you mentioned.
Getting 470 miles to the tank, reduced gas costs, peace of mind on increased reliability and "range anxiety" is hard to beat when comparing it to just ICE or pure electric vehicles.
If your hybrid can’t plug into the grid, it’s a glorified ICE. Sorry bud
They focused on reliability, as somebody from michigan, they kicked the big 3 in the nuts
Well yes but you have to go back in time further than that. They actually learned how to make cars from the Americans. Then they improved upon it. The crazy thing is the American companies had the same opportunity to learn from the Japanese and didn't take any of the knowledge to heart.
Toyota engineering is unrivaled. The most reliable, dependable car brand in the world.
Unrivaled at engineering economy cars for the masses. Their LFA and every attempt at making sports cars in the last 30 years have been uncompetitive jokes. Hence why BMW makes their only competitive sports car today lol.
@@ConfusedDesertCobra-kw9fc Sorry but LFA is a masterpiece and it was a supercar that could survive high mileage that oldschool Toyota reliability with a freaking V10 engine. Meanwhile BMW S85 fragile engine was put in freaking family car bodies.
Toyota is literally the textbook version of reliability. I saw Redline Review’s video on a Pontiac Vibe, which was a rebadged Toyota Matrix, and that engine had 223k miles. The engine just purrs and starts up like new. That goes to show you the dependability and durability of Toyota engines.
@@Neojhun Why is it that whenever Toyota needs a performance engine, they ask someone else to do it? Yamaha with the LFA, BMW with the Supra, Subaru with the GR86... Toyotas inhouse built engines are some of the slowest pieces of shit out there and only last because of simplicity.
@@Neojhun lol dude, nobody bought the LFA because it was such an L machine. They literally had to hire one guy to specifically sell off all the new ones because they sat around for so long. Also it’s a LFA, what’s the highest mileage one? Does its maintenance schedule remain the same as a Prius? Are parts cheap also? No. The reliability and cheapness of maintenance don’t apply to the LFA. Theres way more high mileage E60 M5s running around with a V10 and those are known to be unreliable lol. So again, LFA loses on paper in every category still.
Fun points: the original Insight was very competitive in Formula E when it came out. Also an engineering school in the SE dropped a Subaru engine in the back of one. I had an insight and AVERAGED 68mpg on my 27 mile commute to work. That is NOT a downhill with tailwind number.
My uncle had a 2018 Avalon hybrid. Thing was incredible. So smooth.
Spot on! I recently bought a '24 Corolla LE Hybrid AWD. Fuel economy has been excellent even in the PA winter cold. Driving dynamics is not engaging, though the steering is precise. I have an SS 1LE Camaro for that.
Incredible film Mark. Toyota is the undisputed KING of hybrids 😊
We have a Sienna hybrid. Fuel economy, reliability, carrying capacity are all outstanding. Performance adequate. We care most about life cycle cost of ownership over a 10 year ownership horizon and that is where Toyota knocks it out of the park. Most auto journalists live in a different world where performance matters most and reliability is rarely mentioned. Nice to see a reviewer flipping the script!
I do wish reliability was talked about more as well, but automotive 'journalists' these days are mostly on TH-cam and boring content doesn't sell well.
Its all about the controls - how and when you use the motor or the engine, how you control the trans, how you interpret driver inputs, how you blend it, etc. Controls are the core challenge, and opportunity, with hybrids. Toyota nailed it out of the gate with the Prius and have kept themselves in the lead since then. Controls is also the difficulty in working with NiMH batteries and why Toyota are the only ones able to get as much utility out of them as they do.
I do wish they could come up with a hybrid powertrain (and controls schema) that could truly appeal to driving enthusiasts. Hopefully that's one of the intentions behind doing so much copying off of Subaru and BMWs homework.
Glad you guys will do more of this in the future. You get access to more detailed info from the OEMs than us out here and its interesting to see and you present it well.
We bought my wife a Sorento PHEV 1.5yrs ago; most of the "day to day" driving is in EV mode; work commute, errands etc. we drove ~100 miles over the weekend, carpooled with a couple friends to dinner one night, they loved the EV mode experience; the gas engine was never turned on.
Woh 13.8kWh battery pack, not bad very useable.
Good luck after the warranty ends
@@meowmeow2759The warranty ending is the same for all types of cars. This comment can be applied to every single car sold.
@@Aki_Lesbrinco Nope, only the Sorento!! meowmeow says so
When that gas engine has to turn on when they finally go on a road trip…. Oh dear😅
As a car enthusiast and someone with very limited hybrid exposure, I really appreciated this!
1.5 without turbo - consumption of 1.5 and power of 1.5
1.5 with turbo - consumption of 1.5 and power of 2.5 without turbo
1.5 with hibrid and no turbo - consumption of 1.0 and power of 2.5
Hibrid is better than turbo
Phev and ev are different they work as full ev
The beauty of all of this is that it opens the door to a high revving hybrid concept. Imagine a car like the ND2/3 Miata with a torque fill or electric mode under 2000rpm. It potentially opens the door to increasing the rev limit by another 1000rpm with more aggressive cams, while keeping drivability and emissions in check. It is a pity that Honda never used their IMA (integrated motor assist) tech on the Honda S2000, Imagine that car with an electric assist on the low end. Toyota has a chance to make something special happen if they can keep working on keeping the weight down and the packaging innovative!
IMA was very cool. In 7th gen Accord, you could have the V6 with no cylinder deactivation AND the boost of IMA. They got about the same MPG as a regular V6, but with more power. And if the battery went out on the IMA system, it could just be driven like a normal car.
Too much weight for the Miata probably. Now an electric Miata, if they could make it 2500 pounds, would be enormously fun
And you can still give users control over "gearing", with infinate ratios. Imagine sliding your shift lever back and forth.
@@ADUSN the beauty of the HSD is that it's a drop in replacement for a transmission, not an additional system. If you keep the battery incredibly small and just use it for launching and regen (which still should have significant city driving fuel savings), it's not going to much or at all heavier.
@@challacustica9049 In addition to that, HSD removes some of the engine accessories (such as alternator and starter), which helps offset the battery pack weight a tiny bit, but primarily helps reduce points of failure. Toyota were smart about making it pretty bulletproof.
Listening to Mark teach about Toyota hybrids reminds me of my father lecturing me sternly (yet wisely) in his den when I was 8 about life. Except Mark adds video editing (and motion graphics!) that blows my Papa’s PowerPoint presentation out of the water.
Tell your dad to jazz it up with some stock photos and animations......fade out.....
You were 8 about life?
I have a 2018 Prius Four.. almost 87,000 miles and im on my 3rd set of tires. Other than that - just oil changes and filters/wipers have been changed. The car over those almost 87k miles has an average of 52.4 MPG. The car has been amazing.. even took a rear ending by a Silverado like a champ.
I am currently shopping for an SUV and its down to RAV 4 and Highlander Hybrid/Prime. Other cars and trucks may look better or do this or that better.. but overall.. right now Toyota/Lexus Hybrids are it for me.
Same! Mine is a 2016 with 97k.
At MSRP a 2018 Corolla XLE would have cost $7,650 less than your 2018 Prius Four, and only cost you $3,700 more in fuel (assuming mixed driving 32 MPG and $3.50/gal). You would still be $3,945 ahead if you bought the Corolla.
I think the focus on MPG is short sighted and something that imprinted hard on the boomer generation due to the oil shocks of the 1970s, and their children to some degree. Driving across town to get the best price on gas makes even less sense.
@@slantVI but you would not have a hatchback.
@@slantVI well.. Corolla while great is still more of an economy budget car... no hatch and hauling dog functionality, less tech overall, more maintenance etc.
But true.. a Corolla even Yaris would even cheaper to operate under average conditions.
I love my Hybrid sienna it is the backbone of my company, I am about to roll over 100 K in just a few years and it’s never skipped a beat just regular oil changes and winter tire changes
I FUCKING LOVE PLANETARY GEARSETS I HATE BELT AND PULLEYS
Did you ever drive a late 80's/early 90's Subaru or Volvo with the belt drive CVT?
Yep! The Toyota "CVT" Is nothing like other CVTs. It's all planetary gearsets!
Yeah i don't know why Toyota calls it eCVT, people is going to think that it's just a CVT, unreliable, when that's not the case. @@roadracing3
Toyotas not the only ones, Ford does it too 🤦 imo, call it by its name, powersplit. People just need to get exposure to the naming and they’ll easily begin differentiating between the two.
@@dooder126 Ford uses it, but Ford vehicles have so many issues that having a reliable transmission does not matters at all.
I really appreciate the new Honda hybrid set-up. My sport accord handles well and I think engaging to drive with a tire upgrade. Awesome car for under 40k
Great info Mark. Thanks for this kind of content.
Savagegeese is the thinking man's automotive channel. Thanks for this discussion, super interesting.
In countries outside the USA, where we expect most cars to last 20 years or more, The Toyota Prius is STILL a reliable car long term. A battery which is so old as to be defective can be swapped out by any independent mechanic shop, or by a competent "home mechanic" ("Chris Fix" is one of several people on TH-cam, who has detailed the process).
Here in New Zealand (where our steering wheels are on the right side, being the right side of the car, ) we have a huge number of "JDM" Japanese imported, "as new condition" very low kmilage cars here. As well as the full size Toyota Prius large numbers of the shorter "Compact, Prius C" also known as the "Aqua" are imported and are very popular here. (Our fuel costs about one-and-a-half times, the US price).
Owned a 2022 Camry hybrid top spec, was a nice car, amazing on fuel, but the rear suspension tuning and the FWD dynamics got to me pretty quickly. Sold it for a 2010 Crown Hybrid JDM import (basically a GS450h Lexus) and its an amazing car, super comfortable and so much power and torque on tap when you need it.
Looking forward to when Subaru will be getting the Toyota Hybrid systems for their range, as the belt drive CVTs currently are horrible.
On my fourth Prius, latest a plug-in. All have been brilliant cars with zero issues. One had 450,000km before it was written off in an accident, was still driven daily. Toyota got it right thanks to their World leading R&D.
The transition from electric to gas is so smooth! We tried to purchase a Venza for my wife last year as it was such a nice riding vehicle. The Limited trim version was nowhere to be found, and we unfortunately got to experience the Toyota dealer network! This is the most horrendous dealer network I have found, and I have a lot of cars. From the dealer add-ons that were mandatory, even if you didn't want them applied (ceramic coat charge required, but I could opt for them to not apply it) to another dealer asking for $1500 non-refundable deposit and then telling me I may not get the color I wanted. We ended up with a Mazda CX-5 for now and plan on trading again in a couple years and hope there is a supply.
We ordered a RAV4 hybrid, $1,000 deposit and had to wait 6 months. If you wanted one right off the lot, there were extras like ceramic coating and protective film you had to buy.
Toyota dealer network shenanigans are destroying the brand reputation that was carefully built over decades in the US with their mark-ups, manadatory "prototection packages" and similar rip offs. After buying 5 Toyota/Lexus products over the last few years, these practices drove us to Honda on our most recent purchase. I hope that Toyota corporate will reign in this bad behavior soon.
Great video once again. By far the best car guys on the tube.
They are engineered so well, when you are buying something like a rav4, meaning the size and shape, you should not expect a thrilling ride anyways
There's a reason why there's a 2 year wait for them. Incredible fuel economic + great power + reliablity = huge demand
Mazda cx5 is fun to drive. Won't get the mpg but you can have size fun and affordability
Is it reliable, though? I heard about the cylinder head cracking which costs over $5000.@@christophermcdermott2300
You'll also get a more 'luxury' feel sitting inside a CX-5. The 'fun' part I dont get though. It's a family CUV.@@christophermcdermott2300
WTF 2 year wait for a car? where's this the soviet union? @@sailintothesun3421
Great video and breakdown. Would love to see your take on how the hybrid systems from different manufacturers differ and which one you think may be the best.
Had a Corolla hybrid for a pretty long time. Rode very good, especially in day to day driving. Was fast from a stop as well. But in the corners the drivetrain felt a bit elastic.
Toyota makes what ppl want: it’s reliable enough and ppl don’t think the battery replacement is too expensive, better fuel economy that there’s no need to worry about, added weight to the car that no one cares about, a lackluster cvt that ppl never really push, and resale value ppl love.
I mean it's not what everyone wants or nobody would buy anything else.
In my teens and twenties I would only consume information about twin turbos and V-12s. Now my lust for Toyotas and Hybrids cannot be sated.
Really insightful vid. Thx for sharing
You guys do awesome work. Thanks for another good one.
For most Toyota buyers, the negative sense of "disengagement" in the "driving experience" is more than offset by the positive sense of "disengagement" with the dealer or local repair shop in the "ownership experience." Sitting stranded on the side of the road or in a remote parking lot in a sketchy part of town isn't a part of the "driving experience" I've had to event contemplate since buying my first Toyota in 1985.
I don't think there's much of "disengagement" in driving experience with Toyota. It's just that at first when I bought Toyota hybrid it was different engine behavior. You are used to Rev up > Gear change > Rep down > Rev up > gear change > rev down. With Toyota hybrid is rev up all the way and only in cruise rev down. Once you get used to engine keeping high revs during acceleration it's the same as driving any other automatic.
I like the fact that I take our Lexus CT200h to a gas station so infrequently that I've "disengaged" from remembering which side the fuel filler door is on.
It's honestly really cool how much Toyota pioneered the hybrid powertrain. Because of them, other rivals are also making more efficient cars and have started to compete with their own uniqe versions. I personally have a soft spot for Hyundai and Kia's turbo hybrid system. It is surprisingly quick and efficient. The electric motor makes up for turbo lag, and the turbo engine working with the electric motor feels pretty seamless and smooth. Normal 6 speed automatic without a CVT makes power delivery and driving feel very smooth, and the cabin remains quiet without the CVT drone. I think while EVs remain disposable, there are a wealth of hybrids and PHEVs to choose from, and most of them are not 1st generation anymore, so they are great and safe buys.
Great insight and overview of their design, and also great realistic feedback on the driving experience.
I'm just going to use this comment to express my appreciation for having one of the best car review channels on TH-cam. I spent about 5 weeks shopping for a second car and it was the review of that 2020 Honda Civic SI that finally pushed me in the right direction. I got myself one of those (Coupe version) and it's a great little car. I wasn't even really considering Civics until I watched the video.
An e-CVT is the only type of ICE vehicle I would still buy, because only it comes close to the smoothness of single-gear EVs even when driven hard. This means passengers don't complain even when I'm pulling 0.6g acceleration.
Do one on the Honda hybrid system, I think it would be really cool.
When I was younger and the Prius came out, I hopped on the bandwagon of hating the Prius. Some of it was deserved because a fair chunk of owners felt better than everyone else simply because they were driving the Prius, but that was a problem of the owners...not the car itself. As time went by I started noticing that even after 20+ years I was still seeing 2nd generation (1st gen was not sold where I live) Priuses everywhere. Many of them had easily 200k (sometimes even 350-400k) on them, but they still ran like a dream. There's even an on-going 'joke' that garages and dealerships hate the Prius because it never breaks down and thus they can't make much money off of maintenance. The Prius is a great car that gets really nice gas mileage and is super reliable. For someone that wants a car they need to depend on day in day out, sip gas and not break the bank when it needs to go for maintenance the Prius is amazing value for money.
I own a 2019 Corolla myself and I love how fuel efficient it is, how smooth it drives and it's a really nice feeling knowing the drivetrain is something that has proven to be near bulletproof. I will never regret choosing that car as my daily driver/commuter car, it's amazing.
So happy to see this video. I'm currently looking at getting a hybrid Corolla for daily driver, so I can finally start really build out my Focus ST for the weekend.
I am also planning to get the same vehicle. Do you mind asking, would you be getting a used one or a new one? And which version would that be LE or XLE?
I will say there are multiple reasons, for one they’re stupid reliable. There’s a guy on the RAV4 subreddit that has over 420,000 miles on his 2021 hybrid, the same can’t be said for every other manufacturer. Also availability. Toyota has a hybrid version of almost all their cars, want a cheap econobox? There’s the Corolla hybrid, want a cheaper compact hybrid? Corolla Cross hybrid, midsize SUV?, RAV4 hybrid, want a 3 row that gets 36mpg? Well they have the Highlander and Grand Highlander hybrid, do you want a minivan hybrid with AWD?, your only option is the Sienna, want a stylish and cheapish hybrid, well they have the Prius, can’t forget the Camry hybrid as well. Having so many hybrids entices people to buy them more, and Toyota is one of the few companies that combines hybrid efficiency with AWD, a lot of manufacturers force you to choose either hybrid or AWD
I will also say that most Toyota hybrids are non-compromise. In most cases you get the same or better performance than the base engine but you gain so much more fuel economy and refinement.
That guy is in this comment section. lol he posted how his RAV4 has that many miles and it is the highest mile rav4 on Reddit. At least for that model year.
@@Triquetra15 how many miles then?
@@18_rabbit It has around 420k miles like the OP said. Probably even more now since it’s been a few months.
They’re the only brand offering a hybrid AWD system today, as far as I know. That’s a desirable feature, even if the rear axle can only do a dozen or so horsepower. Still helpful for getting a car out of snow.
Honda CR. V
Hyundai Tucson Hybrid also has AWD, and I'm fairly certain so is the Kia Sportage.
The main difference is that the Tucson has a Central diff that can split 50-50 front-rear. the Toyota relies on a third (much weaker) rear motor.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has. The 2023+ is underrated
You mean the rear is driven by the electric motor and has no mechanical connection to the engine/front? In that regard, they're the only one, except for some super cars with just electric motors driving the front wheels. Otherwise, there're plenty of hybrid AWD vehicles.
'24 Corolla sedan hybrid AWD here! Cheapest, most fuel efficient awd sedan there is. If there are any other choices anyway!?
+1.. Excellent broadcast! .. Informative. Cheers, M/S
I've been driving a Gen-2 Prius for the last 10 years, and it's by far the best car I've ever owned; the handling, performance & comfort are good enough for the average family. We love that car, and we all enjoy driving it; and it's been so reliable, inexpensive to maintain, and I smile every time I fill up. And I often put the rear seats down & use it like a pickup, it takes loads really well, you can get a lot of 'stuff' in it, & sometimes I tow a 6' trailer when I have a bit more 'stuff' to haul. It's been the absolute perfect car for my family.. sure, it's not a performance car, but then, I don't need a performance car, I need what that car is. I'm gonna drive it till the wheels fall off, which they probably never will because it's a Toyota. So everyone's different..
Perfectly sums up Kaizen! Toyota’s continuous improvement philosophy
Because the things are bulletproof reliable, easy and simple to maintain, and get mpg that turns fuel costs into beer money. I put $12 in my Prius when the range indicator said "0" and when I started it the range went to 275. Gas becomes meaningless
Thank you for being real on everything. I am fortunate enough to test vehicles myself and there is no feeling in any hybrid offerings from them and that alone keeps me wanting a lot of new products as everything feels worse that a Direct drive sim rig setup. I may own an inefficient, older 6 cylinder sedan, but man it is tons of fun driving it. The consumer and the manufacturer has to realize that there is more to life than numbers. We have a system capable of amazing senses. Let's use it.
Hybrid drivetrains such as in Toyotas may be called "electronic continuously variable transmission" but it's totally different from what we knows as a CVT, which uses a belt on two pairs of cones that shift the ratio between input and output.
ECVT uses (usually) a set of planetary gears and two electric motors. A generator and a drive motor, which are the gearbox to the engine. The generator can "apply" resistance to the engine making it run faster and producing electricity which can be used by the drive motor. Thus the engine can turn at any RPM no matter the speed of the vehicle. However, there is a way to almost directly drive the wheels from the engine by creating no resistance from the generator and no demand from the drive motor and that way the engine revs can match (at certain speeds like over 40mph) the speed of the wheels progressively. The drive motor can still help, but the engine is mostly driving the wheels in that case.
I like the implementation of hybrids these days. The Ford Maverick does it really well too.
Yes! I wish ford would make it more common knowledge that their fwd hybrids are based on the same architecture as Toyota’s. If im recommending any non-Motorsport ford vehicle to anyone it’ll be whatever has the powersplit in it, currently being the escape, maverick, and most recently the Lincoln nautilus.
They were not made to break, end of story.
I have a 24 rav4 hybrid. I love it. My previous car was a 2008 rav4 v6 sport. The various modes you can put the engine in helps with performance. I can’t complain about 46mpg
I've been driving Toyota hybrid for 9 years now. Started with a 2011 Auris hybrid, which is Gen 3 Prius driveline. Now I recently upgraded to a 2019 Lexus ES300h which is a vast upgrade in terms of refinement, power and noise levels. The Auris used about 4,5l / 100km and the much larger Lexus around 5,6l. In all those years nothing on the drivetrain failed, nothing had to be changed other than oil and filters (don't recall if spark plugs were done on the Auris by plan). These hybrids are easy to operate, dependable and efficient. Most people that I talk to that never drove one simply don't bother understanding how it works, think they still have to plug them in or are deceived by the e-CVT thinking it's a belt/chain driven CVT like Nissan's or Audi's crap. Talk to a taxi driver and they tell you they love it.
Hybrid is becoming pretty much mainstream now as Toyota hybridized the Camry and many models, in 5-8 years time majority of cars will be hybrid and electric
I own 3 Hybrids Rav4 Prime, Corolla, and Ioniq. Toyota's are the smoothest, the Ioniq drives like a normal car since it has a 6 speed transmission and you can feel it shift gears. The prime gets like 35 mpg as hybrid, corolla 51mpg, ioniq still gets 58 mpg with 97k on it.
Now if only I could buy one!
I saved this video to my watch later list and I’m glad I did. Thank you, I actually learned about Toyotas version of ecvt versus the notorious Nissan’s xtronic cvt with the belt pulley system.
For 25 years I have only purchased well kept slightly used Toyotas. I now own a 2019 Rav4 hybrid limited, got it used at 33k miles, and now at 63k miles. Love the vehicle and it's still fun to drive. I fully expect it to last for at least 175k with just the minimal and standard maintenance it needs :). Toyota is just an amazing car company!
I love how easy the Toyota E-CVT is to maintain and it's very reliable.
Why? Because they WORK!
🙈
Somewhat related, but thoughts on the Ramcharger? Seems like an interesting offering in the pickup space
We have a 2010 Highlander Hybrid with 235,000 miles. We recently ordered a 2024 RAV4 Hybrid, 6 month lead time
My wife's boyfriend drives a Rav4 Prime!
I hope you helped him buy it
Same as my mistress. Your wifes' boyfriend should drive something a bit more manly.
Thanks for buying me the car
😂
😂😈
We have driven Toyota exclusively since 2004. One of them is a 2020 Prius. We are getting ready to replace our two Toyotas and it is frustrating to see the prices jump from the hybrid to the plug in versions of Toyota’s cars. In the Lexus NX, it is about $15,000. You will never save enough on gas to justify this price premium. In the Rav4, the spread is a little less, but still greater than $10,000. It is a strong disincentive to buy them. Tesla model 3 and Y are starting to look attractive based on the economics.
Tesla will probably have another price cut down the road when their Optimus AI robots start working in the Gigafactory repalcing human workers and labor costs. Until then a big depreciation can happen again!
@@practicalguy973 we are in new territory now.
@@randallsmith7885 Yeah AI will be changing things financially in many ways for people and business. Also EVs in general have more and more regulations starting to happen around the world leading to more cost of ownership. Some places are dropping eco incentives and adding fees to park and drive in congested areas. Insurance costs are on the rise for EVs also. I'm waiting to see where everything levels off to in the coming years before trusting that EVs could be economically good.
@@practicalguy973 Right now, the US funds a lot of its road infrastructure through taxes on gasoline. As gasoline consumption diminishes, they will have to find alternative ways to pay for roads. EV mileage taxes, or a tax on charging stations or some other public funding process will impact EV economics. In the mean time, EV manufacturers will continue to drive costs down the curve and competition will force them to reduce pricess. Tesla is doing that already. The net impact is a matter of speculation.
I’ve owned a Hyundai hybrid sonata, Toyota rav4 hybrid, now own Lexus es300h. - it’s an awesome technology Make sure you keep the air vent to the hybrid battery clean of dust or have it service by the dealership- they will eventually need replacement and they’re not inexpensive but overall I believe it’s well worth it
Great technology for Uber /Lyft drivers
I just recently replaced the HV battery in my 2010 Prius with, at the time, 185,000 miles. Easy job---I completed the swap myself at home with basic hand tools. Still miss my 2019 Camaro SS 1LE, but I would be lying if I said I didn't appreciate the efficiency, reliability, and serviceability of my Prius.
Toyota fits all you need from a car. If you take care of it, it will burry you
That was true a decade ago, not any more. Their modern power trains will not last exceptionally well.
@@Neojhunhow do you know?
The modern power trains will last just as long as the old ones used to last. @@Neojhun
Reliability, easy to refuel, not ridiculously priced, cheap battery replacement (comparatively), no range anxiety or cold weather concerns, excellent resale value, etc. etc.... Why anyone buys a BEV blows my mind - especially now with prices falling off a cliff.
What a bunch of nonsense. Toyota Hybrids are being Dealer Market Adjusted due to high demand wait times. They are way too expensive for what you get. Resell value free falls when you are coming from that Market Adjusted price. All you have done is push nonsense anti EV propaganda while ignoring serious industry problems.
Dealers are killing it for consumer who wants them
Meanwhile BEVs work perfectly fine in the ARCTIC CIRCLE for a Decade. It's weird how other warmer places have problems with EVs. It's really all just B.S rumours.
@@chowchow3335 You nailed it, it's an dealership industry problem combined with the limited supply vs demand.
One strong reason to consider a BEV is that you will no longer be emitting toxic fumes into the air. Another is that if you buy a Tesla Model 3 or Y, you will have overall lower costs. I am less concerned about resale values because I keep a vehicle for 200,000 miles before replacing it. The depreciation curve is run out. Favoring the hybrid purchase is the fact that BEV technology continues to develop and get better. But it is a ‘devils we know vs the devils we don’t know situation’.
Mark, thanks for the content. I purchased 2 2020 Prius Primes partly because of your review years ago. 105k trouble free miles so far, very pleased with my purchase.
Great video. As someone who has drvien or been driven in most hybrid setups, the ones i've herd the best things about and liked the most were ford and toyota. Despite ford having a recent recall on their electric motors, they feel similar to the toyota setup(uses a e-cvt as well), just tuned more for power. A friend had the first gen escape hybrid and outside of some late electrical weirdness (throttle would be inconsistent at times) he had really no issues and drove the crap out of it. Same for the cmax he replaced that with and now the maverick.
Now he did mention the batteries not being as expensive as li-ion or other battery tech, but do keep in mind the nickle CAN still be pricey if your looking for good quality. there are alot of after market batteries that indie shops may try to sell you on but will cause issues down the road. Another first has a 2nd gen prius with almost 200k and needs the batteries replaced. he was quoted a decent price and got them swapped out but around a year or two later had quote a few electrical problems happen and was sourced to the cheap batteries. One nice thing is that you can still access the older batteries and had a friend who was a electrician load test them to see which ones were bad. ANY hybrid will eventually run into this issues but notice it waset until very high mileage that the prius owner ran into anything serious with the batteries. So you really just need to find a good mechanic that will actually test the batteries and knows how to work on these to properly take care of them. Also check where the cooling fan is as there is a cheap filter that can kill battieres quick in humid or hot environments.
If you can afford a new one, or find a good quality used one, they will pay for themselves in maintenance and fuel costs very quickly. And if you do buy new, pretty much all companies have very long warranties on the hybrid system and batteries so that may ease any long term worries
Hybrids are the future not EV’s.
Most Toyota Hybrids are good if you're either dead inside or you're 80. In either case you just want to get from point A to B in something relatively reliable, and don't care how it happens. For anyone with a soul, or even the slightest amount of passion for actual driving...you're gonna want to blow your brains out in most Toyota Hybrids. Don't get me wrong Toyota is one of my favorite brands...that's just the reality of so many of their hybrid products.
We love our RAV4 Prime. The better half drives to work in EV mode through out the week, and I drive it in the weekends to run errands in Hybrid mode. Our record tank range was 1400 miles. The best part for a gearhead like me: around 300 hp. The thing is insane, it's a RAV4! I still want my Corolla GR or WRX, but we're paying off the RAV4. At least I have my offroading FJ.
Could you guys make a video on general maintenance? General rules of thumb for fluid changes (transmission, differential, coolant, brake, etc.) Replacement of suspension components and other things to keep in mind? Thank you.
I hate to praise Toyota because they make cars that boring in every way, shape and form but they make incredibly reliable vehicles that'll last 15 years plus if you take care of them. Good on them for introducing and sticking with hybrids. It's the most practical powertrain available and will be for a long time.
Sorry but those Mild Hybrid batteries don't last 15 years plus because it's such a tiny capacity. Maybe it might last that much on their biggest capacity Plug In Hybrid. The lack of buffer capacity and high charge cycle usage limits lifespan. Meanwhile a Rav4 EV built around Y2K era on average survived 17 years real world record. Even though it had a passive thermals Nickel Metal Hydride NiMH battery.
Nothing boring about their car design in the last several years. Some have been a gaudy eyesore i.e. Gen 4 XW50 Prius. While they have awesome refined designs like their current Corolla and new Prius. Akio Toyoda's demand of "no more boring cars" realy made an impact.
@@Neojhunjust my opinion, they're still very boring. Half baked offerings like the TRD Camry and the 86 STILL not having a solid motor is lame. Corolla GR is pretty cool though.
@@Neojhun It sounds like I'm denigrating Toyota but I'm honestly not. I find their cars boring and lifeless to drive but that's just my personal taste. They make relatively simple reliable vehicles that last a long time, which is what most drivers want. That's reflected in their sales figures. Good on them.
@@ADUSN Even the normal 2.0L FWD drive train Corolla XSE looks freaking awesome. It was shocking to me when Toyota released that.
@@Neojhun when people say Toyota is boring, they mean the driving experience. I do like most of redesigns.
To me the PHEV was always the ultimate answer. Credit to Chevy for realizing that long ago with the Volt. However, the world seemed to sh!t on PHEV and jumped right to EV. Ironic that in the past 6 months it seems manufacturers are waking up to maybe PHEV is the near future direction. Duh.
Nope PHEV make no sense in anything under 1.8 Tonnes and not in remote location. Either go mild hybrid ICE preferably super capacitor or Pure BEVs. Where PHEV are the best are large vehicles that often need to go cross country or remote locations. That Gen 2 Chevy Volt was a freaking masterpiece design and execution. But it's wrong tool for the job, just added complexity and maintenance cost for light passenger cars that live near cities.
But something like a PHEV using Straight 6 3.0L Petrol engine paired with 200kw of electric motors for a 3 row SUV and Pickup Truck chassis is the dream vehicle. No OEM wants to build that beast because it will make their current powertrains obsolete. The closest thing that exist is AMG 53 series powertrain which needs more powerful battery and electric motors.
I've been a loyal Toyota Hybrid owner.
I've owned 5 Toyota Hybrids so far. (starting from 2nd gen Prius, 3rd gen Prius, RX400H, RAV4 hybrid and Sienna Hybrid) I bought all these brand new.
My '06 RX400H hit 300k miles, and still getting just about the same MPG. The new Sienna hybrid gets 30mpgs all day long. Just incredible...
Then I bought a TESLA Y. Now I understand why Tesla Y is the best selling car in the world in 2023.
For a right owner/usage, the user experience is at a different stratosphere.
If you are a multi car family with a garage and L2 charger.... No amount of Toyota hybrid will win over.
I love my Toyota Hybrids but man Tesla's are something else.
Good but Wait until repair bills come
Bought my 1st Toyota … 2019 RAV4 Hybrid. After 40K miles, my primarily comment: what a great vehicle! I like it for a variety of reasons. My #1 is: I tend to keep it in the Sport Mode, the low-end boost in torque with the electric motors AND the regenerative braking (with the foot off the accelerator), make me feel like I’m driving with a manual transmission. And gas mpg is great even hauling a trailer. ….
My mom’s girlfriend drives a Venza.
Not a Subaru? Surprising
Morning!
about 5 years ago, when the other legacy carmakers were trying to come up with something to compete with tesla, Akio Toyoda made the decision to focus on hybrid electric platforms. Now, they clearly have the best hybrid platforms, and there still isn't a compelling alternative to teslas in the pure ev space. There is something to be said about sticking with what you're good at, or at least not pretending to be good at everything.
We drive a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid AWD "Lounge" (Limited in US), and it is the BEST every day car for a family. No car gets off the line so smooth (just drove a VW DSG some days ago, the start off the line is so bad). We drive it with 5,9L/100km (40mpg) through the year and the RAV4 is a driving wardrobe, in terms of aerodynamics. Reliability is great and i wont change anything.
Why is common sense not common?
The Electric Car will not be as efficient as Toyota Hybrid
Great video. In time, I think these cars will be more engaging to drive. I admire Toyota and Honda for taking the long view with hybrids and engine development. They start with something and keep improving it year after year where a lot of manufacturers in this country swing for the fences. When that doesn't work they start over and do it again. They don't seem to have the patience to play the long game.
So true, but deep down in his heart-of-hearts Mark misses pulling up to the Waldorf Astoria Spa for his weekly exfoliating and and mani-padi in his XC90 T6. :) Thanks for the mini-documentary. Toyota has been brilliant in their platform strategy and portfolio management. In contrast, Ford goes for moonshots and is lost in space.