Imagine working up to 100# or higher in 2# increments. Personally, I would do it as a percentage jump: buying 40 bows would get rather pricey, to say nothing of actually having enough space to store them all. Personally, I can't shoot a 150, though I have brought my 105# warbow to the local archery range more than once.
@@alexanderflack566 What did you start on and how old were you? I'm buying my first bow as an adult and it's 50# Samick Sage lol.. I feel like I got too excited before I found all this stuff out. I've been weight training for 19 years so hopefully that transfers over...otherwise I'll get a cheapy 30# bow to practice with.
My only comment is...... Do not forget your lighter bow if you are trying to move up. Warm-up on the lighter bow. Shoot some arrows at the heavier weight, then move back down to the lighter bow when your form starts to degrade. Be gentle with yourself. Shoulders are incredibly complex, damaging one takes years to heal.
My scenario: I'm 5'5", 165# with a 26-inch draw length. I shot a 22# 66" bow for 2 years, then went to 26# 66" bow for two years. Now, I'm about to move to 30#, again on a 66" bow. I can shoot 200-250 arrows with some fatigue, but I can easily recover by the next day. I'm in pretty good shape for age 72.
About a year ago I started archery by building a PVC bow. The build said it would come out to roughly 65lbs, so I assumed that's what I was shooting. So when I got really into archery, I bought a 50lb recurve bow because i wanted something a bit easier, but legal to use for hunting. It turned out that at my draw length (26-27 inches) the PVC bow only pulls, like 35lbs and at a regular draw it pulls around 38. So where I thought I was going down in weight, I was actually going up. By now I've basically gotten used to it, but it put a great strain on my arms trying to grow into the recurve. But now I can hit a target at 40 yards! Not well, but at least I'm hitting the target.
Fairly new Samick Sage owner here, learned on a fixed recurve when I was young. I'm 6' tall, I work out and lift on a regular basis so I'm fairly strong. Got 30# limbs for practice and 55# limbs for hunting. Works out great, and I much prefer a day of shooting with the lighter limbs. It's just like shooting a rifle, .22 is a lot more fun and you can build the same marksmanship fundamentals that you'd then take over to a large centerfire caliber for competition or hunting.
I went from a 45 pound one piece longbow to a 60 pound one piece (special rebate sale). I was surprised I could shoot it at all. Still working at the "...well" part. But the feeling when I took my first shot . . .
Hey guy, Thank you for the very relevant video! I am reasonably strong such that I can carry 100 lb pails in each arm of concrete all day. So at a sportsman show, I bought a 55 lb draw Matrix. I learned quickly that it's a totally different set of muscles. I can pull it back, but I barely hold it for long and I don't have a grouping to speak of. I am now looking to pick up a 30 lb draw weight.
I came to archery as an ex alcoholic and I had literally screwed my muscles through years of substance abuse and being sedentary. I started out at 22lbs draw, and got pretty good, but as soon as I went up to 26lbs, which I did WAY too soon as my muscles were still very messed up and I still had the shakes, it was a miserable experience and I stopped having fun. I couldn't get the bow back and my accuracy was non-existent. Seriously, don't go up in weight until you're SURE you're ready, because if you're not, it will ruin the experience. I ended up going back to 22lbs not 2 months later and stayed at 22lbs for about a further 6 months before I went up to 24lbs.
Yella Dart I have a 35 pound bone in and decided to go up to 40 but I’ve been in office go to for 10 years I haven’t worked outside with my muscles in such a long time I ripped my shoulders to pieces and after a $750 x-ray series From weeks of pain . I dropped back down to 35. And could shoot all day. I’ve gone up again but only to 37 and go to creep up to 40 by the end of the year
As someone who jumped from 50lbs to 60lbs I can say be careful. I ended up messing my back and arms up so much that I had to take a couple month break from shooting, please just go slow if you are going to increase your draw weight
The joint and ligament strain etc. is real, and you might not feel it until the next day when you've really messed yourself up and take weeks to recover.
I use to compete (shooting at 70 m, 60m 50m and 30m) with a 25# Yamaha Black Widow, for years and I was very accurate. The tournaments lasted all day. I could shoot the whole event without getting tired. My opponents with 40# bows (or more), were very tired and ended up missing the target (good for me), especially at the end of the competition. Why change?
Personally, I find that heavier arrows from a heavier bow (to keep arrow speed reasonable) work better in wind. Also, such a setup is far more ideal for hunting. However, if your muscles are aching after 200 arrows, you're probably shooting a bow that is too heavy for you (I say 'probably' because exceptions exist for things like injuries; if your muscles ache every time you shoot 200 arrows at a single sitting, though, you ARE overbowed). Personally, as someone who is fascinated by historical archery, I would like to eventually work my way up to being capable of using bows of draw weights typically seen on battlefields (part of the reason is that I would like to do realistic tests of their capabilities; I've found that most such tests I've seen use either armor or bows/arrows/shooting technique that are not historically accurate).
great video as always :). One thing not mentioned on cost of limbs is that you can save money by buying limbs quite a few pounds heavier than you would comfortably use but bring the weight down with a modern riser by a good 10% from the marked weight and then move on up to and beyond the the limb weight stated on the limbs with adjustments. This has saved me a lot of money over the last 2 years of shooting and has made me a better tech at tuning. There is however a possible extra cost to moving up because you may find that you need a set of stiffer shafts. Love all your archery vids keep up the good work.
One of your best yet! Another reason for wanting to move up is when shooting at unmarked distances. In NFAS Field Archery shots are taken from unmarked pegs. A faster arrow will have less affect on badly estimated distance as the trajectory is flatter.
Some thoughts on dealing with the budget constraints when moving up in draw weight. 1) If you are a novice archer and your club as a bow rental agreement then it may be worth doing that for the first year. Usually direct equipment rental from a club ( or via an arrangement with a supplier ) comes with the ability to swap out the limbs during the rental period. So you can follow NUSesei's advice and go for nice small 1-2# increments. 2) When it comes to purchasing your own kit spend a little more money on the riser ( the middle part ) the higher end risers on the take down bows normally have the ability to "wind up" the limb strength by around 10% so if you are starting with a 25-30# bow that's an extra 2.5-3# weight which you can add in really small increments over several weeks. Then you can purchase new limbs that are maybe 1-2# heavier than your new maximum and wind the riser right back again so your jumps in limb weight can be 5-10# each time but you only have to handle at most a 1# increase in one go.
Great video, thanks a lot for many information. you may have mentioned few things 1) you can adjust the draw weight on your tiller usually by -5 to+ 10℅ 2) you need to thing about the actual draw weight not about the one printed/written on limbs (I once bought stronger second hand limbs top class and due to its way better smoothness it wasn't any heavier than the cheap ones at the end of draw cycle) using the tiller adjustment and usually going for higher quality limbs you can do step like 4-6 pounds on limbs and save some money doing small steps by 2 I currently use 32# Hoyt f7 seriously thinking about 36# Border cvh for next summer season (north part of the world here) hoping this 4 pounds jump will be OK.
8 ปีที่แล้ว +1
Thats very true and I'm missing this in the video. Basicaly with 2 pairs of limbs you can move from training limbs to competitve limbs while saving a lot of money. 30lb pair and 40lb pair can cover draw weight from 26lbs to 45lbs
My progression as a fairly stong fully grown man shooting six days a week for those of you who want an example (freestyle/olympic recurve): *Started at 16# and after a few weeks jumped to 24# with no problems (only shot once or twice per week here). *Jumped up to 34# after a couple of months which wasn't the best idea because I had constant pain in my back muscles for two weeks and didn't start to shoot decently for over a month but after that it was fine. *After around 5-6 months I went to 42# thinking it would be the same as last time but this really was a mistake. I didn't get any pain except some normal soreness but my accuracy went to shit. Now it's three months later and I'm still not as accurate as I was in the spring but I'm finally starting to get there. My advice is to go for 4-6# increase and don't rush it. You'll get there eventually :)
This is a good explanation of the reasons most people upgrade their draw weight. I recently had an issue where I was trying to shoot 50 and 60 metres in my first competition. My sight was all the way down on the horizontal rail and I actually had to move my aim over the target to actually hit it. I am using 24 lb limbs and one of the coaches at my club told me to get heavier limbs to avoid this problem (by about 4 lbs).
NU , This is probably the best and one of the most important criteria for any new archer and old archer who is getting back into the sport ! I was 15 when I started with a 52# recurve and compound bows didn't exist ! I am 67 today and still enjoy the sport and weight will make or break you from archery if not careful ! Many of my older friends have shoulder problems today due to this and it cant be over emphasized ! I choose to hunt with a 60# compound with 80% let off and use a 34 # recurve for 3 D as I find it much more fun for me ! keep those shoulder muscles toned my friend or you will pay the price ! My advice is to start at low poundage get your form right and move up, I wish I had been given that advise when I first started as I think I could have been a better archer today! 😂
Just went up in weight from 45 to 50 at 28 (normally draw to 31). Thanks for the tips. glad I'm taking things slow as I can tell my muscle felt the difference and got tired way sooner than expected . Thanks for the great advice as always!!!
im older i hunt with a 65 at 28 but when i practice every day i use 40 to 50 way easier to get really good form .then after hundreds of shots for form ill draw the hunting 65 so my form is so dialed in all i have to do is shoot my hunting bow if you go 15 meters with a 40 not much diffrence with 65 where it stands out the change i say is 25 meters to 40 meters then the drop wont be that much causes its heavier carry the load i dont shoot much passed 50 meters hunting you get close to your game deer ect keep up the good work NUSENSEI i like hearing how you shoot nice to see forms or styles from other people and enjoy archery i was lucky to grow up with archery my mom worked for fred bear and as a kid fred would tell me stuff about archery hes a hero in my town grayling mi
I'm a beginner archer. I choose barebow archery. According to your standar, I guess I am not an average person. I started at 20 lbs and now my instructor tell me to moving up to 22 lbs. Other ppl has 28 lbs draw weight, 40 lbs .... but it is okay for me. I enjoy archery so I will enjoy the process
I have chosen my draw weight to 24lb. That is i think a good idea for multiple reasons here in Czechia. 1. Czech law specifies 150N+ (33.5lb) bow to be a D class mechanical weapon. That brings limitations to backyard shooting, because rules apply from here. Below this draw weight as I understand the law, you're ok. 2. Despite the fact I'm reasonably built guy, lifting a bucket of water horizontally 100 times is not as easy as it may seem. My fingers, despite the glove, have been pulverized. My shoulders got tired pretty soon, but because it's a light bow I can keep going. 3. In my opinion, it's significantly easier to detect form flaws with a lighter bow that won't immediately injure me. Currently I'm solving my long middle finger issue, because it likes to hang on to the string longer than the rest of my fingers. 4. If I miss (and I did) my field tips have rather small penetrative strength from a 24lb bow. At 6 meters, I won't get through both sides of a light summer shoe (I was wondering so I tested that). So if I incidentally shoot my arrow somewhere to hell, I know it's unlikely to get very far, much less to kill somebody.
A little strange as when I was a club member here in the UK years ago they had 28 lb practice bows for beginner ladies/youths and 44 lb for beginner gents, indoor and outdoor ranges. A 150N bow is very light. The instructors found I did not draw correctly, not stable, until someone handed me a 75 lb hunting bow. This is unusual. Partly natural disposition and having done heavy lifting work on vac jobs when younger, back muscles. Having an interest in longbow I later found I could shoot 120 and 150 lb bows with some ease. One of the club members made them, they are not off the peg. The reason for such draw weights is the ability to shoot very much heavier arrows with 4 oz or even 6 oz heads on 1/2 inch shafts the length of a football pitch. Not so much for penetration as massive impact. Heavy bows are uneasy, you aim before the draw and draw and release in one movement without holding. Longbow competitors do not routinely use bows that heavy, nor would I. Lifting buckets of water will strengthen the wrong muscles, drawing a bow will strengthen the right ones; the action is uneven on each arm, one pushes the other pulls, but it's the back doing the work pulling the shoulders. To strengthen fingers, play guitar (seriously). Try using a tab instead of a glove to ensure a smooth release. Regarding penetration though, I had a 28 lb practice bow shoot a blunt pile (target) arrow clean through a wooden shed, the fence behind it, through another shed and the fence behind that and finally embed in a tree. All bows are dangerous weapons to be used responsibly and can certainly be as lethal as any firearm.
I'm at the turn in my life that I want to try a Recurve bow again. Since shooting my Compound bows, I had a Heart attack and Quadruple bypass. Also, I haven't made any Testosterone for over 20 years. I've also came off Prescription Chemical Dependency very recently. My compound bows are setting at 48 to 52# with let-offs from 5% to probably 35%. I consider the 5% let-off bow to be really a 50# short longbow with pulleys. An "anchor-point" is a difficult thing to achieve -- gotta go down in draw weight. OK I have a 40# "Turkish Recurve", that I bought about 60 years ago. It's too short to get an anchor point, reliably. My draw length is about 29 inches; long limbs are smoother to 'overdraw' at the upper end. I'm seeing and understanding the reasoning in 20 to 30# draw weights. [CONTROL] I bookmarked MANY of your videos for future reference. Maybe you'll see my new comment on this October 8, 2016 video, (I hope).
Consider a 20lb bow for practice, I have been using one to clean up my form and it is a real joy to shoot it for hours. Get some small diam. carbon arrows and be surprised how fast they are!
That was extremely helpful: it addressed, in a clear, logical and comprehensive way questions that I've been working on since the end of the summer here. It didn't give me the answer I need, but it has given me confidence that (so far, at any rate) I'm approaching this decision in the right way. I'm very grateful for this kind of help.
Some idiot came to the range yesterday, with a 100 lbs compound bow, and shot the arrows entirely through the foam block and into the wall behind. Started at 45, waaaay too much, went down to 34 for 2 months, and now I'm at 38, and its very comfortable. I'll stay here until I have a super grouping, then work out the step up to 40+ for hunting. Still lots to learn, not rushing anything.
I get alot of flack for using a 26lb bow but my problem is consistency. I struggle to maintain grouping as I struggle to support the bow after a few ends.
Tell them to sod off, it's not a weightlifting competition or a pissing contest. Just tune them out and focus on your form and your shot process... and consider getting new shooting partners if the are really giving you flack.
The one reason i recently had to move up draw weight was realising my arrows were way too stiff & I needed at least another 4 pounds. So i ended up jumping up 6 pound limbs (because that's all the store had in stock) so in order to cater for such a jump i made sure i shot my bow with tiller bolts all the way in for a few weeks; & then wound them out as far as safely possible before attaching the new +6 pound limbs. Still felt the extra weight alot for the first week; but it's been about 3 weeks now & it's all starting to feel normal again. :) & best bit is my arrows are now perfectly tuned & it's showing in my scores.
I believe a 5# increase a year is very reasonable (while maintaining complete bow control) as long as one shoots a lot on a consistent basis and lifts weights to some degree to strengthen their back muscles. I don't think anyone maxes out on what draw weight they can pull unless they believe that there is such a thing as "maxing out". Howard Hill worked his way up to a 170# bow and was known for shooting an 80#+ bow in his 60's shooting 150-200 arrows in a single session without any difficulty.
I think of "maxing out" as the peak of what you can accomplish given what you currently commit to, with consideration to how time you dedicate to training and your physical foundations. Similarly to the draw weight increase, many people overlook the need to shoot daily and assume that they can simply move up to a heavy draw weight because, physically, they should be able to.
I agree 100%. Most people simply do not shoot enough and on top of that they do not do any heavy bow work or lift weights that target their archery muscles.
It depends on what your goals are. If you shoot 150+ arrows in a single session a 10+ pound jump per year will hinder you more than help you. If you are shooting English Warbow's and shoot less than 50 arrows in a session or shoot once or twice a week than a 10 pound jump a year is fine. I personally want maximum bow control and joints take more time to grow than muscle so I limit myself to only a 5 pound increase a year.
I bought my first bow at 40lbs. When I first tried it I thought "holy crap, that's hard!' So I bought some 30lbs limbs. Much better. I shot the 30lbs for a couple of weeks and realized it felt really easy. So I went back to the 40lbs limbs. I just realized that you need to draw back with authority! Don't baby it! Use all the large muscles in the back! Then let it fly. I never before realized how much of a strength sport archery really is.
Compound bows offer a little more leeway because they have what's called a let off. This is where your draw weight becomes really light at the end of the draw cycle. So you are actually only holding a fraction of the weight that the bow will dump into the arrow when you actually release.
Hi Nusensei, I'm a newbie in archery, recently joined a club and is feeling that maybe the Olympic style is my thing. So I am considering buying my own bow. I can use 24 pound now without much shaking. I can understand that around 25 pound is enough for like 30 meters or so, and the form, the shooting process and the consistency is the key point. The problem is that when I am browsing the websites of those "pro" manufacturers like W&W or HYOT, their limbs just tend to be provided at 28~pound, most start from 30. So I assume that I should exercise more to raise my capable draw weight to at least 28 pound. As a background I understand that this question is somehow combined with gear choosing. I think I'll mostly end up buying only one bow in my life - too many things to worry about money. So I guess a mid level or advanced level bow is what I'd like to invest into for this one single purchase. Sure if I keep practicing, I believe that 30 pound will eventually be too light for me but as you said, it should be good enough for my purpose. My concern is, first I cannot use 28 pound limbs now so buying them now is not a good idea. How should I buy my first bow? Leave those fancy "pro" limbs and by some other pairs to start the fun first? Or use the training equipment my club provides until I am strong enough? Thank you.
I've got 30 million views on my videos and I still don't understand people are putting a thumb down when it's good. The same goes for you NU Sensei, all your videos are so well explained presented and documented that it puzzles me that 10 idiots dislike this video
Hi David, I have been shooting off and on for 50 years I could pull 36 pounds all day quite easily! Then I got Sepsis, spent a fortnight in Intensive care in a coma, lost a leg and now I can barely manage 20 pounds, and I am not even sure if my crippled hands can even hold a bow! Ther.e are lots of reasons to re.gard drawweight a,s a fluid thing!😫😊
Excellent video. I think I will buy a 25 lbs bow when I get paid next week and then go up by 2-5 lbs every month if I'm consistently accurate and controlling.
Nusensei also suggest (if available) going to an archery club to try out poundages and types of bows you would enjoy in the long run. In the long run it will save money and prevent frustration.
I don't know what it's like in other countries but here in germany nearly every archery shop offers a renting system where you pay an annual or 6-monthly fee for your bow or just the limbs. During that renting period one can also change the limbs free of charge or sometimes a small fee. That's ideal for beginners to start with a low draw weight and move up 2-4 pound every 3-4 months. I did that when I started archery with 13 and again when restarting after a nearly 6 year break. Nearly every beginner I know uses that system for the first 1-2 years.
This is an interesting, and for me, very relevant topic. I just got my first Olympic recurve bow after being a compound target shooter for most of my adult life. My intent is to shoot in outdoor tournaments in the Master Recurve Limited class at some point. I currently shoot a 53# Mathews compound bow. When I decided to get into recurve I went on Archery Talk to get some sort of idea how the 53# compound draw weight translated to the recurve world. I went in thinking maybe I would start somewhere around 40# which I mentioned in my first post. Right away I was told that was a bad idea....well by most people anyway. It was suggested I start much much lower....as far down as 20#. I know from shooting compound, especially using back tension, it takes a long time to get the proper form down and proper form is important to me. So I sucked it up, put my pride aside, and went with some low cost 26# limbs, knowing I would likely upgrade them to get to my final intended draw weight of around 45-50#. Boy am I glad I went with the 26# limbs. Even though I am 68 and have lifted weights my entire adult life, those 26# limbs are no joke. I can pull it back easy enough, but holding it and drawing thru to activate a clicker takes its toll after 30 or 40 shots. Since I started, about two weeks ago now, I have gained some endurance, but it will be some time before I move up in weight. My plan is to crank these limbs down to get maybe 28# then get some 34# limbs and take them down to 32# and then up to 36#. Not sure yet if I will end up at 45# - it really depends on how well I can get out to 70 meters, which would be the maximum yardage I would probably ever shoot. If I can shoot well with less than 50# I will likely just stay there. So yeah....if you are just starting out, start lower than you think. Better yet, try someone else's bow to get an idea of a comfortable draw weight.
Absolutely. Ego is a killer, but the demands of shooting place very specific demand on a specific set of muscles. Most people _can_ shoot heavier weights, but shooting with control and confidence for a hundred shots in a row is different. Thank you for engaging with these older videos - I'm glad they're still sending across a clear and relevant message.
Based on my goals my draw weight is simple. I have 2 goals, to hunt and be able to shoot a war bow. To hunt in my state the minimum is 35lb. I went with 40lb just in case my draw length and or brace height lowered things a bit. Also it will allow me to work on technique and form as I have not shot a bow in over 10yrs and that was compound. As to my second goal I hope to be able to shoot a 120lb regularly, with good technique, and with enough accuracy to hunt. With that said I know it is going to take a long time to get to war bow weight, i plan to just go slow and take my time, and go up in small increments.
I hunt in south western Victoria and started with a 80 pound single Cam compound bow but use a 60 pound double cam compound now as it looses an arrow allot faster and more accurately than my old 80.
When I started shooting my 80 I couldn't even draw it properly. Took a couple of weeks of trying before I could pull it past the let off. Now I can snap off 20 or 30 shots before I start to have difficulty drawing it.
I bought 36# at first. It was too much. I got a 25#. Love it. I was shooting for hours at a time at 10 yards. I tried to move to 32# and I could shoot it but it was a workout. I went back to 25# for now. I may look for a 28# set of limbs then progress to the 32# again at some point.
Ive taken 20# increases, but only after a year of working with the bow. I’m on 60 but I will likely be stuck there as my practice is so inconsistent that I don’t often get too much improvement. That being said, I’ve found oddly enough that I can’t shoot too well with my 20, I shoot slightly better with my 40, but of all I shoot best with 60. I do plan on going hunting sometime, and I shoot compound.
I bought 38# as my first bow, but as somewhat chunky boy I don't regret that purchase, because I could try to shoot at slightly longer distances without much issue
Started about 2 months ago at 22lbs and I'm now on 24 My long term goal is at least 40lbs because I'd like to go hunting one day I am having having hard time picking my first bow only because the draw weights are so high on recurve hunting bows for ethical reasons and I'm just not there yet and I'm not a fan of compounds,I prefer the more traditional feel
I love my 25 pound bow probably even more than some of the higher draw weight ones I have.. Its only downside is, If you have a sight on it and your shooting 30, 40 meters you will max out how far the sight can come down before it actually might hit the fletching on the way out.. But for close range backyard rounds, which is where I do 90 percent of my shooting, its pretty perfect really..
I originally started out with a 34# draw bow and shooting every week over 2 years, I went up to 36# and eventually 40#. as I shoot barebow with a short riser 23" the 40# bow gives me a reasonable sight window at 60 meters.unless I moved to sighted recurve, a lower poundage bow gave me a sight window that i could not use out at 60 meters. as I shoot 200 arrows or so a session I gather the 40# draw is suitable for my needs
Starting up with 30# after five months moved up to 50#. I bought then a 40# which was feeling awesome, then it broke so I moved back to 50#. Now I'm shooting 45# for some months.
Great video again. I shoot 44# with my thumbring and Turkish bow and I shoot #60 with my selfbow or composite bow using Mediterranean release. I can shoot these for and hour or two. I like a bit of a workout and feel I should move up by 50# but Im getting older.
If you want to use war archery techniques (and it sounds like you do), I would check out Justin Ma's channel, specifically his video about drawing heavy weight bows (th-cam.com/video/UvGAYBMhbKY/w-d-xo.html ). A lot of it comes down to technique more than strength, if you're willing to use a traditional style (which tend to be less precise than modern shooting techniques, because draw weight was a lot more important to them and worth sacrificing some accuracy for).
Though I don't imagine they are hugely popular as "first" limbs, I guess they might be used for junior shooters or exclusively short-distance shooters, such as indoor competitions.
Matt Ludford Keep in mind that some competitive archers will keep some low poundage limbs around when they want to work on a specific part of their technique. A university coach at my club said her archers drop as low as 16# to work on form. That still doesn't really answer the question of why you would need such expensive limbs for that though :p
Ego? "My 20# limbs are more expensive than your 20# limbs and that makes me/them better," even if there's no appreciable difference in quality (or need for the difference in quality when it is there). Look at guitar companies, most will have guitars ranging from $300 to $30,000, and while the $3,000 offering might be 10 times better than the $300 offering, the $30,000 one will be almost exactly on par with, or very slightly better than, the $3,000 one. But people will still by the ungodly expensive one, because it's "$27,000 better." In other words, people with money to waste will buy it because the price implies its somehow better, even if it's not, even if they can't figure out why or how it's better, even if when they try it they don't think it's better. After all, it's "$27,000" more, so it has to be "$27,000" better. TL;DR If you build it, they will come; if you over price it, they will believe it's for a reason.
I don't know about expensive being on par, or close to something in the middle, or similar. It's like audiophiles listening to speakers that are slightly more responsive than the under-brother counterpart. A bow limb may have more resilient materials that snap back faster, thus offer faster, more accurate flight, than a cheaper limb of less resilient material with less speed, but same draw weight. I'm no expert, but logic would dictate that an [audiophile], or professional archer is seeking that competitive edge, sometimes, it's money well spent when they win that next championship.
Around minute 9 you argue that normally the groupings suffer when you increase your draw weight. Perfectly reasonable and surely true for most people. With me it is a little different. I used to shoot state-level in my teens, then stopped, and now - in my forties - got infected with archery again. Just as anyone who starts over I started with relativly light bows, 24, 26 and 28lbs. All the time I struggled because, while my results where not THAT bad, nothing felt right. My technique and the feel for the shot, one of my biggest advantages as a teen, where completely gone. The sight wandered all over the place, I felt no backtension, the release was disgusting (because of lack of backtension). Then I tried a 36lbs-bow and - you guessed it - bazinga! The frontend bones in the arm finally rested where they should, I felt the pull and tension in the back and everything aligned as it should. Long story short: sometimes a higher draw weight can be beneficial - especially when you just need the feeling back.
That makes sense as a higher draw weight is also more forgiving and it will be easier to get a cleaner release with. Higher draw weight limbs are also harder to torque and are thus more forgiving, there will also be a naturally flatter arrow trajectory and wind will effect your shot less. I've heard other people talk about how a lower draw weight causes them to shake more as well and I can see how to an extent.
yupp! plus, in my case, i think that maybe my muscles needed a stronger stimulus to remember what they were supposed to do. with "too little" weight they had control issues.
That's what I was thinking when I read your comment. With too little weight you can become lazy and not really engage your muscles that much or even engage the wrong muscles. With a heavier draw weight you have to engage those muscles 100% or let the bow down. There's less of an in between area with the heavier draw weights.
i hav eone of those excersize bands, the rubber ones im gonna work with to work on muscle building, its light enough its not super strenuous but it adds resistance to work on it, i can simply adjust the weight by moving my hand up the rubber band
I've found that draw weight progression has a lot to do with your build and body type. I'm Olympic recurve cadet division(14-17) and I jumped from 34 to 40 lbs draw. My coach told me this jump was way to big and I should go back, while my dad said it was ok. In the end it might be best to listen to someone who has experience and is a similar build to you.
I agree. I shoot target butts for fun and I agree a #30 lb bow suits me nicely. I rarely shoot my Black Hunter #45 lb bow for one I find it heavy to draw and second, the arrows go through the target butt at 10 meters.lol
i have seen 40# bows shoting arrows clean through boar, full pass through... in a hunting situation you want to shoot at distances around 20 yards or below to secure a hit, you can not risk a miss shot and have your meal running away. at 20 yards ... a 30 # bow is by far enough to easy kill wild boar IF the shot is placed right. placed right... 60# bow will shoot clean through if it does not hit a bone but if not placed right the animal will run away , maybe for 5 miles bevore dying! good luckfinding it. as long as your poundage is 30 or above you will be fine. accuracy is the crucial point, ALWAYS hitting at the first shot at a hand siced target, thats what you have to develope.
Beyond survival situations, it's unethical to take shots you are not likely to hit for a kill. It causes the animal to suffer, and it'll run off with $10 worth of arrow besides.
What I think you were trying to suggest, was whilst 10# increase jump is ok in the lower weight bracket when being budget concious, then over 35# should only be 5# increase jumps for most adults, or if combining weight training to build muscle, 30# - 40# jump perhaps, then 5# increments thereafter, particularly as draw weight gets closer to becoming demanding on personal structure, and compromising form? Trying to sum up what you said.
One acronym, RSI. With a high elbow draw you are likely relying on infraspintus and teres major muscles rather than “getting your back into it” as a “English Long Bowman” would. th-cam.com/video/s9d9kgQOJO0/w-d-xo.html These muscles being small with a dominance of fast twitch fibres will fatigue easily. Therefore, if you increase weight you need to drop repetition and gradually increase reps slowly as the progressive muscle overload states.
I don't understand the fear associated with bumping up draw weight. I'm a trad bowhunter and my practice is split 50 50 between stump shooting and backyard plinking, and I've never had a problem doing big jumps in draw weight. I started with a 35, then a 50, then a 70, and then a 56 for funsies. When I stopped shooting for a bit I jumped back in with the 56, and then bounced back up to my 70. The transition between bows is a little messy for a week or two, but after that its fine. During that week or two I shoot as much as I can, bare minimum one session a day. I'm convinced draw weight is more of a mental thing than most people think. Guys gotta spend more time shooting and less time worrying...
The thing is that you're not "average". You're a trad bowhunter. Through your physical activity and time with archery, you've ascertained what are capable of doing. Run a beginner session at a local club, and you'll people who can barely control a 25# bow. An average male should be able to handle 30-40# without much training, but going beyond that without any preparation is very risky , especially without an understanding of how to shoot.
@@NUSensei that's a fair point, it's very rare I shoot with anyone except my buddy who shoots similar equipment. I may be out of touch with reality, I just have never been able to wrap my head around being able to feel the difference of a few lbs. Stacking on the other hand is very readily apparent to me and I feel a large difference between my 66 and 68 inch bows, I wonder if that's a factor people miss when they change bows and up weight?
Very informative. Aother thing to consider is beyond a certain age or after a period away from archery or due to injury it may be a good idea to move down in weight. Could be a reason to retain your low draw weight limbs or bows?
163cm full time cook with "some muscle". my local shop suggest 66" 22LB olympic recurve to start with. but i do own and shoot 29lb wooden recurve sometime(just few arrows XD).
@@Izuyoi7215 thank you. Already got the 22lb limb. But no where to shoot during the pandemic. Yea i guess shooting more without tiring my arm is better starting point. The whole setup is much heavier compare to wooden barebow.
I don't know about his main bows or his Olympic recurve but I know his Samick Polaris is 25, Southwest Spyder is 45, and he generally varies it up I think
I have been doing archery for 2 weeks. I shoot 4 times a week. Each session is about 2-3 hours. I have a coach for that. I started off with a 25# LH ELB, then I moved on to a LH 30# compound bow without a sight on the first day. On the second days, I started to use the 30# cound bow to shoot a smaller target (20-cm in diameter) at 15 yards. After a while, LH 50# compound bow with a sight to shoot at 20-cm target at 15 yard. After, getting only 9's and 10's, I moved to shoot at a 18 yard target, then 20 yard. Now, I am shooting at a 20-cm-diameter target from 25 yards and get mostly 10's and 9's. I am still not getting tired. (Thanks to over a decade of moving, pulling and lifting patients as a paramedic and training in firearm shooting.) Should I move onto using a heavier setting for a farther target? I hate to damage my arrows, they have been scratch each other.
I've just moved up from 30 to 38#, and everything is fine except my fingers. I had to switch from my glove to my Dad's multi-layer tab, but my forefinger is still feeling it. I think it'll take a while to get used to that. Unfortunately my Dad hasn't got 34# limbs for that riser, which would be optimal.
Split finger. When I use a glove there's some discomfort on both the forefinger and middle finger on the release. With the tab, there is less to start with, and then it kicks in for the hold, rather than the release. I think its largely cause I've just gone up in draw weight, and then didn't shoot for nearly 2 weeks. My over all physical condition is so poor that if I don't shoot every few days I tend to feel it somewhere. There is a bonus to this though. As my right shoulder is doing better, and I can hold my compound more, so I'll be shooting for a bit with the recurve, then switch to my compound when my finger gets too sore. That's a win.
I currently shoot 30# and when shooting barebow I'm able to get sight marks with the point on the target face all the way up to 60m (although I do have a slightly longer than average draw length so probably pulling closer to 33# at full draw)
Great video as always NuSensei, another idea regarding draw weights is how do you come back to shooting when you haven't shot for a long time. IMO that's pretty relevant to us who have things to do besides shooting everyday. Do we power through and use our heavy limbs till the muscles "come back" or do we use light poundage limbs and work our way up again?
A bit of both. Form and technique should take precedence, so getting the right feel for shooting well is generally the way to go. Once you are confident in your form, shoot your heavy bow.
As someone who wants to get into english longbow tradshooting and has an end goal of being able to shoot a 150 pound draw weight bow well, this was an excellent video. I know this is an old video and you probably won't see the comment, but do you have any sources you recommend for tradshooters, NuSensei? Particularly on TH-cam. Your content is excellent for learning general knowledge, but I know you don't specialize in trad.
Bearing in mind that I have been shooting since before Al Henderson was coaching the USA Olympic team, a question occurs to me that I really cannot think of the answer! I fully understand all of the reasons behind spending more money on better limbs, but since I really like the feel of my Winners riser, why should I buy a more expensive Win & Win riser, as opposed to just putting carbon foam limbs on the riser I have? BTW, over the years I have had several first class bows, and the Winners riser feels as good as any of them! Owing to medical reasons, my draw weight has gone down from 36lbs to 20lbs. I know it is no fault of mine, but I do want to get back to 36lbs?
There's really no reason to change limbs if you're happy with the ones you have. The top end limbs boast better performance etc. etc. but not essential to shoot well. A skilled archer with a solid process will shoot well with a less expensive set of limbs. You're squeezing out a bit more velocity at best.
An archery sub-discipline that treats it as an accuracy-based strength sport with different draw-weight classes, with intra-class competition for accuracy would be interesting to watch, and provide some novelty/evolution in the sport without disturbing the current champions (they'd still be champions in their division, and any scores can still be compared between classes if an archer wants to be accuracy king/queen/genderless monarch of the world across the board). The question would be in deciding on the draw-weight ranges, which should be initially guided by examining existing champion equipment to ensure the groupings make sense. It would be fascinating to watch different classes competing at the elite level.
@@alexanderflack566 considering a normal distribution, not as many athletes in the “pool” as a more accessible draw-weight for the masses...but if small-build archers like joe Gibbs etc can draw around 200lb, there are definitely bigger-framed archers that could draw significantly more with equal training or at least be more accurate at that draw weight to warrant competition Id love to see a 200lb+ category purely from the athletic fascination of successfuly using such a bow, despite a softer tier yielding better “performance” overall. Never know what sort of talent/capability is out there though! That's the excitement of creating such thing!
@@CludzyMasta I'm not sure that a bigger frame would necessarily be an advantage in that. Nearing full draw, you take up the weight onto your back muscles, and increasing your strength in those muscles doesn't make you particularly bulky. I mean, Justin Ma shoots what, 130+ (Edit: 128#, actually) or so, and he's rather thin.
@@alexanderflack566 a bigger frame has more potential for back development. It will not be 1:1 mass for strength, but taking weightlifting as an example, WR snatch for a 56kg male is 139kg, and WR for a super heavyweight 168kg male is 220kg. I.e. 300% bodyweight, to lift less than 60% extra weight. You see this trend across all strength sports, so archery why would archery be any different with respects to draw-weight? Then there's the advantage of body leverages, that come with particular frame “types”. Not entirely sure what these are for archery, but I'm guessing a certain arm length/shoulder span factors into reaching full draw easier than other combinations. Justin Ma is an example of a highly trained smaller framed archer, but his peak is less than if he had a larger frame (all else being equal). Strength correlates to muscle cross sectional area (due to myofibril density), influenced by tendon attachment distances, bone length, gender (hormones) etc etc many factors, many of which are also not trainable. (which is why there is gender segregation in sports). Remembering that a larger frame increases a persons “volume” and therefore mass, quickly. Which is why an equally trained larger-framed archer, with the same genetic predisposition for the movement will always be able to draw more/be stronger. What exists though is a big mish mash of traits so you get “exceptions”, but refined at an elite level you'd expect draw-weight to correlate with body mass (perhaps coming to the conclusion that 100-130lb isn't actually that high for the average male with training (or Justin/Joe are elite/gifted and are the exceptios), and you'd see the mass correlation thing with super heavy draw weights that aren't commonly used/seen today 200,250,300?!). Another fascination is considering that historically some archery like longbow/manchu had bows of draw like 160-200+ lb....and that was on a diet and training regime thats many hundreds years old. With modern nutrition and systematic training programmes, a modern elite athlete could push the bar much higher
I am stepping up in weight by changing to a beginners compound (leader accessories 55#) bow. It still looks like my top archery 50# recurve, but the 70% let off helps so much with aiming. P.S. I would have shot at the annoying bird! Lol 😂
got 40lb limbs just for training and hunting but will shoot 30lb for indoor target. If you can shoot 40lb for 150 arrows somewhat accurately the 30lb all day event will be a breeze.
@@priceeubanks9341 starting out I first used a 18lbs club bow for the first session and then moved up to a 26lbs which felt comfortable so brought myself a 26. I'm a fairly big guy in the shoulders and after a couple of months I'm pretty sure that I could move up a bit in weight but until I am accurate enough to be shooting 40-50m I don't see the point. One of the club coach's told me that he highest he had ever started anyone on was 30lbs and that guy was a massive bricklayer.
@@viralvd77 I ended up with a 29 cause that's what the local store had between 20-30. Haven't done extended shooting with it but I know I won't be shooting well for long. Just gonna start slow
@@priceeubanks9341 if you haven't already you could grab a couple of cheap stretchy bands for conditioning at home, think NUSunsi did a vid on them, if not there plenty on YT
@@viralvd77 Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely consider. For now my goal is shorter shooting sessions leading to longer shooting sessions. But considering we only have one archery shop and no year round lessons I can find, those bands will probably be important for getting my form together
ive been using a 35 pound horsebow for 8 months , and i still cant hold it longer than 5- 10 seconds without terrible tremors, Its not a super problem for me because i shoot instinctive and release almost instantly after the draw, my question is, i dont feel like i got stronger even the slightest bit, and still have the same performance, (in terms of drawing, not accuracy etc) as 8 months ago. P.S i shoot 3 times a week for 3 hours per session.
Ha, new to archery - and probably only going to shoot sometimes.. in the wild.. a few times a year. However I was using a theraband (latex) hooked on a scale.. and it seems I can easily get #40 onto it. With actually holding the elbow pretty much up.. and then 'circle' it back the head down.. When I want I can also bring #60 onto the scale. (well 190cm and 120kg - draw is about 30" I guess. Since I can actually - as it seems on the gymnastic-band-test easy #40 - I might go with a #45 anyway.. what will be #50. It's just more fun seems to me :P .. maybe a #40.. but not below (with the "30 that would result in a #45). It's just a fun-shooting sometimes .. not more. That's what I plan to buy - had never a bow in my hand :P Either way, you are a very very agreeable - very informative guy NUSensei! thank you very much! Very helpful on so many issues related to that archery thing :)
How do you actually "go down" on your draw weight? If that's possible? I can't seem to find any explanation in Google. Do you just buy a different set of limbs? Strings?
Can I start with a 44 pound bow if I'm not strong? Probably not, but I'd like to get into competition at some point. I really only want to buy a single high quality bow.
Too high. You'll be developing very poor technique with a bow you can barely draw. Not only will you be unable to be competitive, you're at much larger risk of damaging your shoulder muscles, preventing you from shooting altogether. Remember that with takedown bows, you don't have to buy an entire bow to change weight. You can swap the limbs.
Get a very good riser if you feel like spending on quality but rent the limbs. You can change them as often as you want while building up strength until you have the experience to buy the limbs you need.
*Brings 150 warbow to local range*
Jup, for Armor piercing it's great to have some more power behind it! blood for the bloodgod, those weak bows won't hurt me x)
It's like taking RPG to a gun range.
Worawat Li perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Imagine working up to 100# or higher in 2# increments. Personally, I would do it as a percentage jump: buying 40 bows would get rather pricey, to say nothing of actually having enough space to store them all.
Personally, I can't shoot a 150, though I have brought my 105# warbow to the local archery range more than once.
@@alexanderflack566 What did you start on and how old were you? I'm buying my first bow as an adult and it's 50# Samick Sage lol.. I feel like I got too excited before I found all this stuff out. I've been weight training for 19 years so hopefully that transfers over...otherwise I'll get a cheapy 30# bow to practice with.
My only comment is...... Do not forget your lighter bow if you are trying to move up. Warm-up on the lighter bow. Shoot some arrows at the heavier weight, then move back down to the lighter bow when your form starts to degrade. Be gentle with yourself. Shoulders are incredibly complex, damaging one takes years to heal.
I shoot till my shoulders start to feel tender or stiff then I stop.
My scenario: I'm 5'5", 165# with a 26-inch draw length. I shot a 22# 66" bow for 2 years, then went to 26# 66" bow for two years. Now, I'm about to move to 30#, again on a 66" bow. I can shoot 200-250 arrows with some fatigue, but I can easily recover by the next day. I'm in pretty good shape for age 72.
Oh goodness, I thought you meant your draw weight was now 165 pounds. Now that'd be a JUMP.
Way To Go👍👍
Awesome! That's a lot of shots! Do you mind if I ask at what age you got into Archery? I'm not 72 yet but definitely impressed 😁!
About a year ago I started archery by building a PVC bow. The build said it would come out to roughly 65lbs, so I assumed that's what I was shooting. So when I got really into archery, I bought a 50lb recurve bow because i wanted something a bit easier, but legal to use for hunting. It turned out that at my draw length (26-27 inches) the PVC bow only pulls, like 35lbs and at a regular draw it pulls around 38. So where I thought I was going down in weight, I was actually going up. By now I've basically gotten used to it, but it put a great strain on my arms trying to grow into the recurve. But now I can hit a target at 40 yards! Not well, but at least I'm hitting the target.
Fairly new Samick Sage owner here, learned on a fixed recurve when I was young. I'm 6' tall, I work out and lift on a regular basis so I'm fairly strong. Got 30# limbs for practice and 55# limbs for hunting. Works out great, and I much prefer a day of shooting with the lighter limbs. It's just like shooting a rifle, .22 is a lot more fun and you can build the same marksmanship fundamentals that you'd then take over to a large centerfire caliber for competition or hunting.
That's useful info, thanks.
I went from a 45 pound one piece longbow to a 60 pound one piece (special rebate sale). I was surprised I could shoot it at all. Still working at the "...well" part. But the feeling when I took my first shot . . .
Hey guy,
Thank you for the very relevant video!
I am reasonably strong such that I can carry 100 lb pails in each arm of concrete all day. So at a sportsman show, I bought a 55 lb draw Matrix. I learned quickly that it's a totally different set of muscles. I can pull it back, but I barely hold it for long and I don't have a grouping to speak of. I am now looking to pick up a 30 lb draw weight.
Had a friend who was much stronger than me try to draw my 50 lb. bow that I started with. He couldn’t do it. It’s very hard to gage until you pull.
Really well done. Thoughtful and comprehensive
Hi NUSensei this is the best topic explained about archery I ever seen before. Thansks very much and good luck
I came to archery as an ex alcoholic and I had literally screwed my muscles through years of substance abuse and being sedentary. I started out at 22lbs draw, and got pretty good, but as soon as I went up to 26lbs, which I did WAY too soon as my muscles were still very messed up and I still had the shakes, it was a miserable experience and I stopped having fun. I couldn't get the bow back and my accuracy was non-existent. Seriously, don't go up in weight until you're SURE you're ready, because if you're not, it will ruin the experience. I ended up going back to 22lbs not 2 months later and stayed at 22lbs for about a further 6 months before I went up to 24lbs.
Yella Dart I have a 35 pound bone in and decided to go up to 40 but I’ve been in office go to for 10 years I haven’t worked outside with my muscles in such a long time I ripped my shoulders to pieces and after a $750 x-ray series From weeks of pain . I dropped back down to 35. And could shoot all day. I’ve gone up again but only to 37 and go to creep up to 40 by the end of the year
I'm proud of you,i hope you're doing great now
14 y/o me using my dads 55 pound hunting bow bc the only other one I have sucks
I’ve been at 70# for years now. Just wondering how old you are? My 12 year old draws 25#.
@@The_Fit_ness_monster
My 15 y.o. draws 110#
all day long, and still fit by the end.
What's wrong with your 12 y.o.?
... 🏹🎯 🙊 😜
As someone who jumped from 50lbs to 60lbs I can say be careful. I ended up messing my back and arms up so much that I had to take a couple month break from shooting, please just go slow if you are going to increase your draw weight
The joint and ligament strain etc. is real, and you might not feel it until the next day when you've really messed yourself up and take weeks to recover.
60lbs is ridiculously hard.
I use to compete (shooting at 70 m, 60m 50m and 30m) with a 25# Yamaha Black Widow, for years and I was very accurate. The tournaments lasted all day. I could shoot the whole event without getting tired. My opponents with 40# bows (or more), were very tired and ended up missing the target (good for me), especially at the end of the competition. Why change?
Because how else can you get your arrow through your enemy’s armour!
/s
I think it is because it is more accurate against wind as the arrow is moving faster. otherise I dont know
But thats not how i make my peepee feel better when my thing is larger than the guys thing next to me.
Personally, I find that heavier arrows from a heavier bow (to keep arrow speed reasonable) work better in wind. Also, such a setup is far more ideal for hunting. However, if your muscles are aching after 200 arrows, you're probably shooting a bow that is too heavy for you (I say 'probably' because exceptions exist for things like injuries; if your muscles ache every time you shoot 200 arrows at a single sitting, though, you ARE overbowed).
Personally, as someone who is fascinated by historical archery, I would like to eventually work my way up to being capable of using bows of draw weights typically seen on battlefields (part of the reason is that I would like to do realistic tests of their capabilities; I've found that most such tests I've seen use either armor or bows/arrows/shooting technique that are not historically accurate).
I went from a 25# bow (bought online) to a 50#, to much, for 60 arrows at a time. You have done it the right way. Enjoy your shooting.🤗
great video as always :).
One thing not mentioned on cost of limbs is that you can save money by buying limbs quite a few pounds heavier than you would comfortably use but bring the weight down with a modern riser by a good 10% from the marked weight and then move on up to and beyond the the limb weight stated on the limbs with adjustments.
This has saved me a lot of money over the last 2 years of shooting and has made me a better tech at tuning.
There is however a possible extra cost to moving up because you may find that you need a set of stiffer shafts.
Love all your archery vids keep up the good work.
I recently started with 35 lbs and am glad I did, shooting more has been way better for learning
One of your best yet! Another reason for wanting to move up is when shooting at unmarked distances. In NFAS Field Archery shots are taken from unmarked pegs. A faster arrow will have less affect on badly estimated distance as the trajectory is flatter.
Some thoughts on dealing with the budget constraints when moving up in draw weight.
1) If you are a novice archer and your club as a bow rental agreement then it may be worth doing that for the first year. Usually direct equipment rental from a club ( or via an arrangement with a supplier ) comes with the ability to swap out the limbs during the rental period. So you can follow NUSesei's advice and go for nice small 1-2# increments.
2) When it comes to purchasing your own kit spend a little more money on the riser ( the middle part ) the higher end risers on the take down bows normally have the ability to "wind up" the limb strength by around 10% so if you are starting with a 25-30# bow that's an extra 2.5-3# weight which you can add in really small increments over several weeks. Then you can purchase new limbs that are maybe 1-2# heavier than your new maximum and wind the riser right back again so your jumps in limb weight can be 5-10# each time but you only have to handle at most a 1# increase in one go.
exactly what my local club advised me to do, "just to save a shit load of your money" they said. it seems it is wiser to invest to a high end riser.
Great video, thanks a lot for many information. you may have mentioned few things 1) you can adjust the draw weight on your tiller usually by -5 to+ 10℅ 2) you need to thing about the actual draw weight not about the one printed/written on limbs (I once bought stronger second hand limbs top class and due to its way better smoothness it wasn't any heavier than the cheap ones at the end of draw cycle)
using the tiller adjustment and usually going for higher quality limbs you can do step like 4-6 pounds on limbs and save some money doing small steps by 2
I currently use 32# Hoyt f7 seriously thinking about 36# Border cvh for next summer season (north part of the world here) hoping this 4 pounds jump will be OK.
Thats very true and I'm missing this in the video. Basicaly with 2 pairs of limbs you can move from training limbs to competitve limbs while saving a lot of money. 30lb pair and 40lb pair can cover draw weight from 26lbs to 45lbs
That's one of the benefits of a compound, you have very fine adjustment of the draw weight
My progression as a fairly stong fully grown man shooting six days a week for those of you who want an example (freestyle/olympic recurve):
*Started at 16# and after a few weeks jumped to 24# with no problems (only shot once or twice per week here).
*Jumped up to 34# after a couple of months which wasn't the best idea because I had constant pain in my back muscles for two weeks and didn't start to shoot decently for over a month but after that it was fine.
*After around 5-6 months I went to 42# thinking it would be the same as last time but this really was a mistake. I didn't get any pain except some normal soreness but my accuracy went to shit. Now it's three months later and I'm still not as accurate as I was in the spring but I'm finally starting to get there.
My advice is to go for 4-6# increase and don't rush it. You'll get there eventually :)
This is a good explanation of the reasons most people upgrade their draw weight. I recently had an issue where I was trying to shoot 50 and 60 metres in my first competition. My sight was all the way down on the horizontal rail and I actually had to move my aim over the target to actually hit it. I am using 24 lb limbs and one of the coaches at my club told me to get heavier limbs to avoid this problem (by about 4 lbs).
Great advice, as always. Thanks for taking the time to make these splendid video tutorials.
NU , This is probably the best and one of the most important criteria for any new archer and old archer who is getting back into the sport ! I was 15 when I started with a 52# recurve and compound bows didn't exist ! I am 67 today and still enjoy the sport and weight will make or break you from archery if not careful ! Many of my older friends have shoulder problems today due to this and it cant be over emphasized !
I choose to hunt with a 60# compound with 80% let off and use a 34 # recurve for 3 D as I find it much more fun for me ! keep those shoulder muscles toned my friend or you will pay the price ! My advice is to start at low poundage get your form right and move up, I wish I had been given that advise when I first started as I think I could have been a better archer today! 😂
Just went up in weight from 45 to 50 at 28 (normally draw to 31). Thanks for the tips. glad I'm taking things slow as I can tell my muscle felt the difference and got tired way sooner than expected . Thanks for the great advice as always!!!
im older i hunt with a 65 at 28 but when i practice every day i use 40 to 50 way easier to get really good form .then after hundreds of shots for form ill draw the hunting 65 so my form is so dialed in all i have to do is shoot my hunting bow if you go 15 meters with a 40 not much diffrence with 65 where it stands out the change i say is 25 meters to 40 meters then the drop wont be that much causes its heavier carry the load i dont shoot much passed 50 meters hunting you get close to your game deer ect keep up the good work NUSENSEI i like hearing how you shoot nice to see forms or styles from other people and enjoy archery i was lucky to grow up with archery my mom worked for fred bear and as a kid fred would tell me stuff about archery hes a hero in my town grayling mi
I'm a beginner archer. I choose barebow archery. According to your standar, I guess I am not an average person. I started at 20 lbs and now my instructor tell me to moving up to 22 lbs. Other ppl has 28 lbs draw weight, 40 lbs .... but it is okay for me. I enjoy archery so I will enjoy the process
perfect attitude! enjoy!
lighter bow helps with building good forms cuz the amount of tolerance is quite limited. 30lbs is more than enough for most indoor matches
Thank you NUSensei! This video was extremely helpful! 😊
I have chosen my draw weight to 24lb. That is i think a good idea for multiple reasons here in Czechia.
1. Czech law specifies 150N+ (33.5lb) bow to be a D class mechanical weapon. That brings limitations to backyard shooting, because rules apply from here. Below this draw weight as I understand the law, you're ok.
2. Despite the fact I'm reasonably built guy, lifting a bucket of water horizontally 100 times is not as easy as it may seem. My fingers, despite the glove, have been pulverized. My shoulders got tired pretty soon, but because it's a light bow I can keep going.
3. In my opinion, it's significantly easier to detect form flaws with a lighter bow that won't immediately injure me. Currently I'm solving my long middle finger issue, because it likes to hang on to the string longer than the rest of my fingers.
4. If I miss (and I did) my field tips have rather small penetrative strength from a 24lb bow. At 6 meters, I won't get through both sides of a light summer shoe (I was wondering so I tested that). So if I incidentally shoot my arrow somewhere to hell, I know it's unlikely to get very far, much less to kill somebody.
A little strange as when I was a club member here in the UK years ago they had 28 lb practice bows for beginner ladies/youths and 44 lb for beginner gents, indoor and outdoor ranges. A 150N bow is very light. The instructors found I did not draw correctly, not stable, until someone handed me a 75 lb hunting bow. This is unusual. Partly natural disposition and having done heavy lifting work on vac jobs when younger, back muscles. Having an interest in longbow I later found I could shoot 120 and 150 lb bows with some ease. One of the club members made them, they are not off the peg. The reason for such draw weights is the ability to shoot very much heavier arrows with 4 oz or even 6 oz heads on 1/2 inch shafts the length of a football pitch. Not so much for penetration as massive impact. Heavy bows are uneasy, you aim before the draw and draw and release in one movement without holding. Longbow competitors do not routinely use bows that heavy, nor would I.
Lifting buckets of water will strengthen the wrong muscles, drawing a bow will strengthen the right ones; the action is uneven on each arm, one pushes the other pulls, but it's the back doing the work pulling the shoulders. To strengthen fingers, play guitar (seriously). Try using a tab instead of a glove to ensure a smooth release.
Regarding penetration though, I had a 28 lb practice bow shoot a blunt pile (target) arrow clean through a wooden shed, the fence behind it, through another shed and the fence behind that and finally embed in a tree. All bows are dangerous weapons to be used responsibly and can certainly be as lethal as any firearm.
I'm at the turn in my life that I want to try a Recurve bow again. Since shooting my Compound bows, I had a Heart attack and Quadruple bypass. Also, I haven't made any Testosterone for over 20 years. I've also came off Prescription Chemical Dependency very recently. My compound bows are setting at 48 to 52# with let-offs from 5% to probably 35%. I consider the 5% let-off bow to be really a 50# short longbow with pulleys. An "anchor-point" is a difficult thing to achieve -- gotta go down in draw weight.
OK I have a 40# "Turkish Recurve", that I bought about 60 years ago. It's too short to get an anchor point, reliably. My draw length is about 29 inches; long limbs are smoother to 'overdraw' at the upper end. I'm seeing and understanding the reasoning in 20 to 30# draw weights. [CONTROL] I bookmarked MANY of your videos for future reference.
Maybe you'll see my new comment on this October 8, 2016 video, (I hope).
Consider a 20lb bow for practice, I have been using one to clean up my form and it is a real joy to shoot it for hours. Get some small diam. carbon arrows and be surprised how fast they are!
Consider trt?
That was extremely helpful: it addressed, in a clear, logical and comprehensive way questions that I've been working on since the end of the summer here. It didn't give me the answer I need, but it has given me confidence that (so far, at any rate) I'm approaching this decision in the right way. I'm very grateful for this kind of help.
I'm 21 novice archer and started with 35 lbs. It's good enough for me as a person practising calistenic for 1 year
great stuff, i just started shooting at 48 and use a 25 pound bow, it's plenty strong enough, !!!, Stewart..!!
Some idiot came to the range yesterday, with a 100 lbs compound bow, and shot the arrows entirely through the foam block and into the wall behind. Started at 45, waaaay too much, went down to 34 for 2 months, and now I'm at 38, and its very comfortable. I'll stay here until I have a super grouping, then work out the step up to 40+ for hunting. Still lots to learn, not rushing anything.
Great vid! This and the ‘choosing draw weight’ video are super helpful for this topic!
I get alot of flack for using a 26lb bow but my problem is consistency.
I struggle to maintain grouping as I struggle to support the bow after a few ends.
Tell them to sod off, it's not a weightlifting competition or a pissing contest. Just tune them out and focus on your form and your shot process... and consider getting new shooting partners if the are really giving you flack.
The one reason i recently had to move up draw weight was realising my arrows were way too stiff & I needed at least another 4 pounds. So i ended up jumping up 6 pound limbs (because that's all the store had in stock) so in order to cater for such a jump i made sure i shot my bow with tiller bolts all the way in for a few weeks; & then wound them out as far as safely possible before attaching the new +6 pound limbs.
Still felt the extra weight alot for the first week; but it's been about 3 weeks now & it's all starting to feel normal again. :) & best bit is my arrows are now perfectly tuned & it's showing in my scores.
💗😁😁😁😁😁😁
I believe a 5# increase a year is very reasonable (while maintaining complete bow control) as long as one shoots a lot on a consistent basis and lifts weights to some degree to strengthen their back muscles.
I don't think anyone maxes out on what draw weight they can pull unless they believe that there is such a thing as "maxing out".
Howard Hill worked his way up to a 170# bow and was known for shooting an 80#+ bow in his 60's shooting 150-200 arrows in a single session without any difficulty.
I think of "maxing out" as the peak of what you can accomplish given what you currently commit to, with consideration to how time you dedicate to training and your physical foundations. Similarly to the draw weight increase, many people overlook the need to shoot daily and assume that they can simply move up to a heavy draw weight because, physically, they should be able to.
I agree 100%. Most people simply do not shoot enough and on top of that they do not do any heavy bow work or lift weights that target their archery muscles.
It depends on what your goals are.
If you shoot 150+ arrows in a single session a 10+ pound jump per year will hinder you more than help you.
If you are shooting English Warbow's and shoot less than 50 arrows in a session or shoot once or twice a week than a 10 pound jump a year is fine.
I personally want maximum bow control and joints take more time to grow than muscle so I limit myself to only a 5 pound increase a year.
I bought my first bow at 40lbs. When I first tried it I thought "holy crap, that's hard!' So I bought some 30lbs limbs. Much better. I shot the 30lbs for a couple of weeks and realized it felt really easy. So I went back to the 40lbs limbs. I just realized that you need to draw back with authority! Don't baby it! Use all the large muscles in the back! Then let it fly. I never before realized how much of a strength sport archery really is.
Compound bows offer a little more leeway because they have what's called a let off. This is where your draw weight becomes really light at the end of the draw cycle. So you are actually only holding a fraction of the weight that the bow will dump into the arrow when you actually release.
Hi Nusensei, I'm a newbie in archery, recently joined a club and is feeling that maybe the Olympic style is my thing. So I am considering buying my own bow. I can use 24 pound now without much shaking. I can understand that around 25 pound is enough for like 30 meters or so, and the form, the shooting process and the consistency is the key point. The problem is that when I am browsing the websites of those "pro" manufacturers like W&W or HYOT, their limbs just tend to be provided at 28~pound, most start from 30. So I assume that I should exercise more to raise my capable draw weight to at least 28 pound.
As a background I understand that this question is somehow combined with gear choosing. I think I'll mostly end up buying only one bow in my life - too many things to worry about money. So I guess a mid level or advanced level bow is what I'd like to invest into for this one single purchase. Sure if I keep practicing, I believe that 30 pound will eventually be too light for me but as you said, it should be good enough for my purpose.
My concern is, first I cannot use 28 pound limbs now so buying them now is not a good idea. How should I buy my first bow? Leave those fancy "pro" limbs and by some other pairs to start the fun first? Or use the training equipment my club provides until I am strong enough? Thank you.
" I can use 24 pound now without much shaking." Any shaking is too much shaking.
I've got 30 million views on my videos and I still don't understand people are putting a thumb down when it's good. The same goes for you NU Sensei, all your videos are so well explained presented and documented that it puzzles me that 10 idiots dislike this video
Hi David, I have been shooting off and on for 50 years I could pull 36 pounds all day quite easily! Then I got Sepsis, spent a fortnight in Intensive care in a coma, lost a leg and now I can barely manage 20 pounds, and I am not even sure if my crippled hands can even hold a bow!
Ther.e are lots of reasons to re.gard drawweight a,s a fluid thing!😫😊
Gut Besserung
Glad to hear you are still here,
and still keen for archery. 😊
Excellent video. I think I will buy a 25 lbs bow when I get paid next week and then go up by 2-5 lbs every month if I'm consistently accurate and controlling.
Nusensei also suggest (if available) going to an archery club to try out poundages and types of bows you would enjoy in the long run. In the long run it will save money and prevent frustration.
I don't know what it's like in other countries but here in germany nearly every archery shop offers a renting system where you pay an annual or 6-monthly fee for your bow or just the limbs. During that renting period one can also change the limbs free of charge or sometimes a small fee. That's ideal for beginners to start with a low draw weight and move up 2-4 pound every 3-4 months. I did that when I started archery with 13 and again when restarting after a nearly 6 year break. Nearly every beginner I know uses that system for the first 1-2 years.
That would be great. Unfortunately most countries don't have it.
that sounds awesome. we dont have it in the us
that sounds awesome. we dont have it in the us
Wish that was done in the US
This is an interesting, and for me, very relevant topic. I just got my first Olympic recurve bow after being a compound target shooter for most of my adult life. My intent is to shoot in outdoor tournaments in the Master Recurve Limited class at some point. I currently shoot a 53# Mathews compound bow. When I decided to get into recurve I went on Archery Talk to get some sort of idea how the 53# compound draw weight translated to the recurve world. I went in thinking maybe I would start somewhere around 40# which I mentioned in my first post. Right away I was told that was a bad idea....well by most people anyway. It was suggested I start much much lower....as far down as 20#.
I know from shooting compound, especially using back tension, it takes a long time to get the proper form down and proper form is important to me. So I sucked it up, put my pride aside, and went with some low cost 26# limbs, knowing I would likely upgrade them to get to my final intended draw weight of around 45-50#. Boy am I glad I went with the 26# limbs. Even though I am 68 and have lifted weights my entire adult life, those 26# limbs are no joke. I can pull it back easy enough, but holding it and drawing thru to activate a clicker takes its toll after 30 or 40 shots. Since I started, about two weeks ago now, I have gained some endurance, but it will be some time before I move up in weight. My plan is to crank these limbs down to get maybe 28# then get some 34# limbs and take them down to 32# and then up to 36#. Not sure yet if I will end up at 45# - it really depends on how well I can get out to 70 meters, which would be the maximum yardage I would probably ever shoot. If I can shoot well with less than 50# I will likely just stay there. So yeah....if you are just starting out, start lower than you think. Better yet, try someone else's bow to get an idea of a comfortable draw weight.
Absolutely. Ego is a killer, but the demands of shooting place very specific demand on a specific set of muscles. Most people _can_ shoot heavier weights, but shooting with control and confidence for a hundred shots in a row is different. Thank you for engaging with these older videos - I'm glad they're still sending across a clear and relevant message.
@@NUSensei Absolutely...the information you share is timeless, valuable and much appreciated.
Based on my goals my draw weight is simple. I have 2 goals, to hunt and be able to shoot a war bow. To hunt in my state the minimum is 35lb. I went with 40lb just in case my draw length and or brace height lowered things a bit. Also it will allow me to work on technique and form as I have not shot a bow in over 10yrs and that was compound. As to my second goal I hope to be able to shoot a 120lb regularly, with good technique, and with enough accuracy to hunt. With that said I know it is going to take a long time to get to war bow weight, i plan to just go slow and take my time, and go up in small increments.
most people dont even go beyond 60 in their entire lifes, 120 is a humongus ask and i doubt you will ever reach that if you have average genetics
On a different matter, thanks for posting these videos, you do a great job!
Draw weight ego, well said haha!
I hunt in south western Victoria and started with a 80 pound single Cam compound bow but use a 60 pound double cam compound now as it looses an arrow allot faster and more accurately than my old 80.
When I started shooting my 80 I couldn't even draw it properly. Took a couple of weeks of trying before I could pull it past the let off. Now I can snap off 20 or 30 shots before I start to have difficulty drawing it.
I bought 36# at first. It was too much. I got a 25#. Love it. I was shooting for hours at a time at 10 yards. I tried to move to 32# and I could shoot it but it was a workout. I went back to 25# for now. I may look for a 28# set of limbs then progress to the 32# again at some point.
Forgot to mention I had open heart surgery a year ago and I'm trying to rebuild my strength.
Ive taken 20# increases, but only after a year of working with the bow. I’m on 60 but I will likely be stuck there as my practice is so inconsistent that I don’t often get too much improvement. That being said, I’ve found oddly enough that I can’t shoot too well with my 20, I shoot slightly better with my 40, but of all I shoot best with 60. I do plan on going hunting sometime, and I shoot compound.
Also it is worth mention that the ILF system will allow You to change Your draw weight in some degree (10%) so You need less sets of limbs.
Informative. Thanks. Archery is an ideal physical and mental exercise in this pandemic.
😁😇
I bought 38# as my first bow, but as somewhat chunky boy I don't regret that purchase, because I could try to shoot at slightly longer distances without much issue
I moved up just this month from 26 to 34 to 36 and to 44 in draw weight
I would say go up by 2 pound increments
Started about 2 months ago at 22lbs and I'm now on 24
My long term goal is at least 40lbs because I'd like to go hunting one day
I am having having hard time picking my first bow only because the draw weights are so high on recurve hunting bows for ethical reasons and I'm just not there yet and I'm not a fan of compounds,I prefer the more traditional feel
I love my 25 pound bow probably even more than some of the higher draw weight ones I have.. Its only downside is, If you have a sight on it and your shooting 30, 40 meters you will max out how far the sight can come down before it actually might hit the fletching on the way out.. But for close range backyard rounds, which is where I do 90 percent of my shooting, its pretty perfect really..
I originally started out with a 34# draw bow and shooting every week over 2 years, I went up to 36# and eventually 40#. as I shoot barebow with a short riser 23" the 40# bow gives me a reasonable sight window at 60 meters.unless I moved to sighted recurve, a lower poundage bow gave me a sight window that i could not use out at 60 meters. as I shoot 200 arrows or so a session I gather the 40# draw is suitable for my needs
Your ability to explain these subjects right to the point amazes me. Keep up the good work!
Starting up with 30# after five months moved up to 50#. I bought then a 40# which was feeling awesome, then it broke so I moved back to 50#. Now I'm shooting 45# for some months.
good topic! I was just wondering about it... Good advice.
Great video again. I shoot 44# with my thumbring and Turkish bow and I shoot #60 with my selfbow or composite bow using Mediterranean release. I can shoot these for and hour or two.
I like a bit of a workout and feel I should move up by 50# but Im getting older.
If you want to use war archery techniques (and it sounds like you do), I would check out Justin Ma's channel, specifically his video about drawing heavy weight bows (th-cam.com/video/UvGAYBMhbKY/w-d-xo.html ). A lot of it comes down to technique more than strength, if you're willing to use a traditional style (which tend to be less precise than modern shooting techniques, because draw weight was a lot more important to them and worth sacrificing some accuracy for).
Something I've always wondered, why do elite tier limbs like Hoyt Quattro come in 20lbs? I've not seen many beginners with $500 to drop on limbs.
Though I don't imagine they are hugely popular as "first" limbs, I guess they might be used for junior shooters or exclusively short-distance shooters, such as indoor competitions.
Matt Ludford Keep in mind that some competitive archers will keep some low poundage limbs around when they want to work on a specific part of their technique. A university coach at my club said her archers drop as low as 16# to work on form. That still doesn't really answer the question of why you would need such expensive limbs for that though :p
Ego? "My 20# limbs are more expensive than your 20# limbs and that makes me/them better," even if there's no appreciable difference in quality (or need for the difference in quality when it is there). Look at guitar companies, most will have guitars ranging from $300 to $30,000, and while the $3,000 offering might be 10 times better than the $300 offering, the $30,000 one will be almost exactly on par with, or very slightly better than, the $3,000 one. But people will still by the ungodly expensive one, because it's "$27,000 better." In other words, people with money to waste will buy it because the price implies its somehow better, even if it's not, even if they can't figure out why or how it's better, even if when they try it they don't think it's better. After all, it's "$27,000" more, so it has to be "$27,000" better.
TL;DR If you build it, they will come; if you over price it, they will believe it's for a reason.
I don't know about expensive being on par, or close to something in the middle, or similar. It's like audiophiles listening to speakers that are slightly more responsive than the under-brother counterpart. A bow limb may have more resilient materials that snap back faster, thus offer faster, more accurate flight, than a cheaper limb of less resilient material with less speed, but same draw weight. I'm no expert, but logic would dictate that an [audiophile], or professional archer is seeking that competitive edge, sometimes, it's money well spent when they win that next championship.
Around minute 9 you argue that normally the groupings suffer when you increase your draw weight. Perfectly reasonable and surely true for most people. With me it is a little different. I used to shoot state-level in my teens, then stopped, and now - in my forties - got infected with archery again.
Just as anyone who starts over I started with relativly light bows, 24, 26 and 28lbs. All the time I struggled because, while my results where not THAT bad, nothing felt right. My technique and the feel for the shot, one of my biggest advantages as a teen, where completely gone. The sight wandered all over the place, I felt no backtension, the release was disgusting (because of lack of backtension).
Then I tried a 36lbs-bow and - you guessed it - bazinga! The frontend bones in the arm finally rested where they should, I felt the pull and tension in the back and everything aligned as it should.
Long story short: sometimes a higher draw weight can be beneficial - especially when you just need the feeling back.
p.s. no linmbs for hire in autralia? here in germany and europe you can rent them until you rech your final draw weight.
p.p.s. great channel! rock on! ;)
That makes sense as a higher draw weight is also more forgiving and it will be easier to get a cleaner release with.
Higher draw weight limbs are also harder to torque and are thus more forgiving, there will also be a naturally flatter arrow trajectory and wind will effect your shot less.
I've heard other people talk about how a lower draw weight causes them to shake more as well and I can see how to an extent.
yupp! plus, in my case, i think that maybe my muscles needed a stronger stimulus to remember what they were supposed to do. with "too little" weight they had control issues.
That's what I was thinking when I read your comment. With too little weight you can become lazy and not really engage your muscles that much or even engage the wrong muscles. With a heavier draw weight you have to engage those muscles 100% or let the bow down.
There's less of an in between area with the heavier draw weights.
i hav eone of those excersize bands, the rubber ones im gonna work with to work on muscle building, its light enough its not super strenuous but it adds resistance to work on it, i can simply adjust the weight by moving my hand up the rubber band
I've found that draw weight progression has a lot to do with your build and body type. I'm Olympic recurve cadet division(14-17) and I jumped from 34 to 40 lbs draw. My coach told me this jump was way to big and I should go back, while my dad said it was ok. In the end it might be best to listen to someone who has experience and is a similar build to you.
Who should you listen to? Experienced qualified coach? Or "my dad"? Hmmmmmm
I agree. I shoot target butts for fun and I agree a #30 lb bow suits me nicely. I rarely shoot my Black Hunter #45 lb bow for one I find it heavy to draw and second, the arrows go through the target butt at 10 meters.lol
Five pound increment is a good way to go. That’s what I have been doing and it works out well. I think I’m going to top out at 40.
Hm, ordered a MandarinDuck Phantom 56" 40lbs as hunting bow for survival situations... hope thats good enough... and i am strong enough :)
i have seen 40# bows shoting arrows clean through boar, full pass through...
in a hunting situation you want to shoot at distances around 20 yards or below to secure a hit, you can not risk a miss shot and have your meal running away.
at 20 yards ... a 30 # bow is by far enough to easy kill wild boar IF the shot is placed right.
placed right... 60# bow will shoot clean through if it does not hit a bone but if not placed right the animal will run away , maybe for 5 miles bevore dying!
good luckfinding it. as long as your poundage is 30 or above you will be fine. accuracy is the crucial point, ALWAYS hitting at the first shot at a hand siced target, thats what you have to develope.
"survival situations"? Oh please.
Beyond survival situations, it's unethical to take shots you are not likely to hit for a kill. It causes the animal to suffer, and it'll run off with $10 worth of arrow besides.
What I think you were trying to suggest, was whilst 10# increase jump is ok in the lower weight bracket when being budget concious, then over 35# should only be 5# increase jumps for most adults, or if combining weight training to build muscle, 30# - 40# jump perhaps, then 5# increments thereafter, particularly as draw weight gets closer to becoming demanding on personal structure, and compromising form? Trying to sum up what you said.
One acronym, RSI. With a high elbow draw you are likely relying on infraspintus and teres major muscles rather than “getting your back into it” as a “English Long Bowman” would.
th-cam.com/video/s9d9kgQOJO0/w-d-xo.html
These muscles being small with a dominance of fast twitch fibres will fatigue easily.
Therefore, if you increase weight you need to drop repetition and gradually increase reps slowly as the progressive muscle overload states.
Started shooting maybe a week ago and I had a 20# bow and my dad gave me his old 55# bow and yeah I use that one
I don't understand the fear associated with bumping up draw weight. I'm a trad bowhunter and my practice is split 50 50 between stump shooting and backyard plinking, and I've never had a problem doing big jumps in draw weight. I started with a 35, then a 50, then a 70, and then a 56 for funsies. When I stopped shooting for a bit I jumped back in with the 56, and then bounced back up to my 70. The transition between bows is a little messy for a week or two, but after that its fine. During that week or two I shoot as much as I can, bare minimum one session a day. I'm convinced draw weight is more of a mental thing than most people think. Guys gotta spend more time shooting and less time worrying...
The thing is that you're not "average". You're a trad bowhunter. Through your physical activity and time with archery, you've ascertained what are capable of doing. Run a beginner session at a local club, and you'll people who can barely control a 25# bow. An average male should be able to handle 30-40# without much training, but going beyond that without any preparation is very risky , especially without an understanding of how to shoot.
@@NUSensei that's a fair point, it's very rare I shoot with anyone except my buddy who shoots similar equipment. I may be out of touch with reality, I just have never been able to wrap my head around being able to feel the difference of a few lbs. Stacking on the other hand is very readily apparent to me and I feel a large difference between my 66 and 68 inch bows, I wonder if that's a factor people miss when they change bows and up weight?
Very informative. Aother thing to consider is beyond a certain age or after a period away from archery or due to injury it may be a good idea to move down in weight. Could be a reason to retain your low draw weight limbs or bows?
I started with 26 pound limbs, (have about a 30inch DL) and I struggle after about 50-60 arrows, I'll look to go up once my endurance increases.
I have a 55# compound bow but unless I go out hunting I just have it set at 30# for practice
My chief reason would be because i want to see if i can emulate medieval archers. High draw weight and as little assistance as possible.
Clint Eastwood's character said every man should know his limits.
163cm full time cook with "some muscle". my local shop suggest 66" 22LB olympic recurve to start with. but i do own and shoot 29lb wooden recurve sometime(just few arrows XD).
can you shoot around 200+ arrows per session? if u can without tiring out then yeah a higher draw weight
@@Izuyoi7215 thank you. Already got the 22lb limb. But no where to shoot during the pandemic. Yea i guess shooting more without tiring my arm is better starting point. The whole setup is much heavier compare to wooden barebow.
Hi thank you for your videos, I am 66 and getting into Archery, and I learned alot listening to you.
What is your draw weight
I don't know about his main bows or his Olympic recurve but I know his Samick Polaris is 25, Southwest Spyder is 45, and he generally varies it up I think
I think you need 66 pound draw weight
I have been doing archery for 2 weeks. I shoot 4 times a week. Each session is about 2-3 hours. I have a coach for that. I started off with a 25# LH ELB, then I moved on to a LH 30# compound bow without a sight on the first day. On the second days, I started to use the 30# cound bow to shoot a smaller target (20-cm in diameter) at 15 yards. After a while, LH 50# compound bow with a sight to shoot at 20-cm target at 15 yard. After, getting only 9's and 10's, I moved to shoot at a 18 yard target, then 20 yard. Now, I am shooting at a 20-cm-diameter target from 25 yards and get mostly 10's and 9's. I am still not getting tired. (Thanks to over a decade of moving, pulling and lifting patients as a paramedic and training in firearm shooting.) Should I move onto using a heavier setting for a farther target? I hate to damage my arrows, they have been scratch each other.
I've just moved up from 30 to 38#, and everything is fine except my fingers. I had to switch from my glove to my Dad's multi-layer tab, but my forefinger is still feeling it. I think it'll take a while to get used to that. Unfortunately my Dad hasn't got 34# limbs for that riser, which would be optimal.
For me it's always been my ring finger that gets hurt the most for some reason. How are you holding your string?
Split finger. When I use a glove there's some discomfort on both the forefinger and middle finger on the release. With the tab, there is less to start with, and then it kicks in for the hold, rather than the release. I think its largely cause I've just gone up in draw weight, and then didn't shoot for nearly 2 weeks.
My over all physical condition is so poor that if I don't shoot every few days I tend to feel it somewhere.
There is a bonus to this though. As my right shoulder is doing better, and I can hold my compound more, so I'll be shooting for a bit with the recurve, then switch to my compound when my finger gets too sore. That's a win.
I shot my PSE 20 lb promax for 2-day shy of the year I got me a TideWe 45lb.. after doing a year I think 45 was perfect for me
I currently shoot 30# and when shooting barebow I'm able to get sight marks with the point on the target face all the way up to 60m (although I do have a slightly longer than average draw length so probably pulling closer to 33# at full draw)
Great video as always NuSensei, another idea regarding draw weights is how do you come back to shooting when you haven't shot for a long time. IMO that's pretty relevant to us who have things to do besides shooting everyday. Do we power through and use our heavy limbs till the muscles "come back" or do we use light poundage limbs and work our way up again?
A bit of both. Form and technique should take precedence, so getting the right feel for shooting well is generally the way to go. Once you are confident in your form, shoot your heavy bow.
As someone who wants to get into english longbow tradshooting and has an end goal of being able to shoot a 150 pound draw weight bow well, this was an excellent video.
I know this is an old video and you probably won't see the comment, but do you have any sources you recommend for tradshooters, NuSensei? Particularly on TH-cam. Your content is excellent for learning general knowledge, but I know you don't specialize in trad.
Clay Hayes channel for trad barebow
Bearing in mind that I have been shooting since before Al Henderson was coaching the USA Olympic team, a question occurs to me that I really cannot think of the answer!
I fully understand all of the reasons behind spending more money on better limbs, but since I really like the feel of my
Winners riser, why should I buy a more expensive Win & Win riser, as opposed to just putting carbon foam limbs on the riser I have?
BTW, over the years I have had several first class bows, and the Winners riser feels as good as any of them!
Owing to medical reasons, my draw weight has gone down from 36lbs to 20lbs.
I know it is no fault of mine, but I do want to get back to 36lbs?
There's really no reason to change limbs if you're happy with the ones you have. The top end limbs boast better performance etc. etc. but not essential to shoot well. A skilled archer with a solid process will shoot well with a less expensive set of limbs. You're squeezing out a bit more velocity at best.
An archery sub-discipline that treats it as an accuracy-based strength sport with different draw-weight classes, with intra-class competition for accuracy would be interesting to watch, and provide some novelty/evolution in the sport without disturbing the current champions (they'd still be champions in their division, and any scores can still be compared between classes if an archer wants to be accuracy king/queen/genderless monarch of the world across the board).
The question would be in deciding on the draw-weight ranges, which should be initially guided by examining existing champion equipment to ensure the groupings make sense.
It would be fascinating to watch different classes competing at the elite level.
That would be interesting. I wonder how many we would see compete in the 200#+ category?
@@alexanderflack566 considering a normal distribution, not as many athletes in the “pool” as a more accessible draw-weight for the masses...but if small-build archers like joe Gibbs etc can draw around 200lb, there are definitely bigger-framed archers that could draw significantly more with equal training or at least be more accurate at that draw weight to warrant competition
Id love to see a 200lb+ category purely from the athletic fascination of successfuly using such a bow, despite a softer tier yielding better “performance” overall.
Never know what sort of talent/capability is out there though! That's the excitement of creating such thing!
@@CludzyMasta I'm not sure that a bigger frame would necessarily be an advantage in that. Nearing full draw, you take up the weight onto your back muscles, and increasing your strength in those muscles doesn't make you particularly bulky. I mean, Justin Ma shoots what, 130+ (Edit: 128#, actually) or so, and he's rather thin.
@@alexanderflack566 a bigger frame has more potential for back development. It will not be 1:1 mass for strength, but taking weightlifting as an example, WR snatch for a 56kg male is 139kg, and WR for a super heavyweight 168kg male is 220kg. I.e. 300% bodyweight, to lift less than 60% extra weight.
You see this trend across all strength sports, so archery why would archery be any different with respects to draw-weight?
Then there's the advantage of body leverages, that come with particular frame “types”. Not entirely sure what these are for archery, but I'm guessing a certain arm length/shoulder span factors into reaching full draw easier than other combinations.
Justin Ma is an example of a highly trained smaller framed archer, but his peak is less than if he had a larger frame (all else being equal). Strength correlates to muscle cross sectional area (due to myofibril density), influenced by tendon attachment distances, bone length, gender (hormones) etc etc many factors, many of which are also not trainable. (which is why there is gender segregation in sports).
Remembering that a larger frame increases a persons “volume” and therefore mass, quickly.
Which is why an equally trained larger-framed archer, with the same genetic predisposition for the movement will always be able to draw more/be stronger.
What exists though is a big mish mash of traits so you get “exceptions”, but refined at an elite level you'd expect draw-weight to correlate with body mass (perhaps coming to the conclusion that 100-130lb isn't actually that high for the average male with training (or Justin/Joe are elite/gifted and are the exceptios), and you'd see the mass correlation thing with super heavy draw weights that aren't commonly used/seen today 200,250,300?!).
Another fascination is considering that historically some archery like longbow/manchu had bows of draw like 160-200+ lb....and that was on a diet and training regime thats many hundreds years old.
With modern nutrition and systematic training programmes, a modern elite athlete could push the bar much higher
Also consider you may need new arrows if you go up in weight.
What is the lowest draw white you can use for for competition
Winston Loader 6216
... you can have #14 pound for
competition up to 25 metres.
This includes 18 metre in-door.
#24 pound is much much better
for competition up to 50 metres.
These are the MINIMUM
Draw Weights
for competition.
can you make a video about sight panic and how to solve it
I am stepping up in weight by changing to a beginners compound (leader accessories 55#) bow. It still looks like my top archery 50# recurve, but the 70% let off helps so much with aiming. P.S. I would have shot at the annoying bird! Lol 😂
Hey everyone, how do you guys warm up before shooting?
I go for a short jog
Just paint a 1 in front your 25 on the bow and look like a boss
LOL....To funny spit my pop out!
got 40lb limbs just for training and hunting but will shoot 30lb for indoor target. If you can shoot 40lb for 150 arrows somewhat accurately the 30lb all day event will be a breeze.
I just bought my first bow... CentrePoint Aspen 60" bow 45# @ 29".
45# was a bit of a oopsie.
Is the 45 rough? Thinking about getting a 25
@@priceeubanks9341 starting out I first used a 18lbs club bow for the first session and then moved up to a 26lbs which felt comfortable so brought myself a 26. I'm a fairly big guy in the shoulders and after a couple of months I'm pretty sure that I could move up a bit in weight but until I am accurate enough to be shooting 40-50m I don't see the point. One of the club coach's told me that he highest he had ever started anyone on was 30lbs and that guy was a massive bricklayer.
@@viralvd77 I ended up with a 29 cause that's what the local store had between 20-30. Haven't done extended shooting with it but I know I won't be shooting well for long. Just gonna start slow
@@priceeubanks9341 if you haven't already you could grab a couple of cheap stretchy bands for conditioning at home, think NUSunsi did a vid on them, if not there plenty on YT
@@viralvd77 Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely consider. For now my goal is shorter shooting sessions leading to longer shooting sessions. But considering we only have one archery shop and no year round lessons I can find, those bands will probably be important for getting my form together
ive been using a 35 pound horsebow for 8 months , and i still cant hold it longer than 5- 10 seconds without terrible tremors, Its not a super problem for me because i shoot instinctive and release almost instantly after the draw, my question is, i dont feel like i got stronger even the slightest bit, and still have the same performance, (in terms of drawing, not accuracy etc) as 8 months ago. P.S i shoot 3 times a week for 3 hours per session.
Ha, new to archery - and probably only going to shoot sometimes.. in the wild.. a few times a year. However I was using a theraband (latex) hooked on a scale.. and it seems I can easily get #40 onto it. With actually holding the elbow pretty much up.. and then 'circle' it back the head down.. When I want I can also bring #60 onto the scale. (well 190cm and 120kg - draw is about 30" I guess. Since I can actually - as it seems on the gymnastic-band-test easy #40 - I might go with a #45 anyway.. what will be #50. It's just more fun seems to me :P .. maybe a #40.. but not below (with the "30 that would result in a #45). It's just a fun-shooting sometimes .. not more.
That's what I plan to buy - had never a bow in my hand :P
Either way, you are a very very agreeable - very informative guy NUSensei! thank you very much! Very helpful on so many issues related to that archery thing :)
How do you actually "go down" on your draw weight? If that's possible? I can't seem to find any explanation in Google. Do you just buy a different set of limbs? Strings?
Same!!
Great video, thanks!
Can I start with a 44 pound bow if I'm not strong? Probably not, but I'd like to get into competition at some point. I really only want to buy a single high quality bow.
Too high. You'll be developing very poor technique with a bow you can barely draw. Not only will you be unable to be competitive, you're at much larger risk of damaging your shoulder muscles, preventing you from shooting altogether. Remember that with takedown bows, you don't have to buy an entire bow to change weight. You can swap the limbs.
Get a very good riser if you feel like spending on quality but rent the limbs. You can change them as often as you want while building up strength until you have the experience to buy the limbs you need.