Investigation: FTDIgate & Fake/Counterfeit USB to Serial Chips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- Fortunately, I don't have the 2.12.0.0 driver that bricks fake FTDI chips - I have version 2.10.0.0 which appears to be safe.
Web sites referred to in this video:
zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT23...
www.sparkfun.com/news/1629
www.zdnet.com/ftdi-admits-to-b...
hackaday.com/2014/10/24/ftdi-s...
www.ftdichipblog.com/?p=1053
Check which driver you have by getting properties on these files and checking the version numbers:
C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\ftser2k.sys
C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\serenum.sys
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ftcserco.dll
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ftserui2.dll
2.10.0.0 is safe, 2.11.0 and 2.12.0, released on August 26, 2014 are a problem according to Hackaday. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Failure To Display Intelligence (FTDI) by whoever decided that the driver needed that 'feature'... They must have thought for all of 0 seconds about how the end customers would react to their dongles getting bricked and how they'd feel when the problem turned out to be an FTDI issue.. Total FTDI there.
I stopped using FT232RL over 2yrs now, just because it cost 4-5 times than other USB-Serial Chips. And I am also using CH340T USB-Serial chip over this period. CH340T cost us $0.39 @ lot of 250pcs. where FT232RL costs appx $ 2.4. But FT232 has more features over CH340. CH340 doesn' t have in-built 12mhz crystal, wide range TTL voltage selection from 1.8V~5.5V and LED outputs. CH340 claims to work both in 5V or 3.3V , but we noticed it failed to transmit data @ 3.0V... But still it wins over price from FT232.
FTDI really shot themselves in the foot with this one and they knew it.
Great vid as always Julian
Expects the fakes to solve the issue making them indistinguishable from the software perspective, now they know they can be detected they will fix their design
It is possible to still use a 'bricked' FTDI chip. You just need to tell Windows to manually override the driver. There is a video on TH-cam on how to do this. I had 3x FTDI chips whose PIDs were changed to 0000 but I can still use them using this method, so technically, they're not 'bricked'. Here is the link: Unbrick Arduino FTDI Driver Update Win7 Arduino Nano/Micro/ProMicro FT232R USB UART
I lost three boards this week to this. Thankfully they were cheap.
I will now focus on the CH340 chips for future purchases, even though I tended to swing away from them until today.
I have seen some cases where SiLabs or Atmel chips are used instead of FTDI chips, or CH340 used with an adapter board that contains tiny crystal and other supporting components on them.
FTDI chips are now not being used widely on the products using USB to serial chips.
Nice video, and yes Dave Jones does love his little rants.
Fingers crossed the new driver does not brick anything, I will no longer buy any uno with a ftdi chip on it just in case they play the bricking game again.
It's possible to unbrick the device anyway - just force install drivers manually. Once installed you can use the FT Prog (www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm) to flash the valid PIDs to the 232R chip. However if you'll continue to use the unfortunate drivers, the PID will be flashed back to 0000. So you should use FT Prog, and then get rid of the 2.12 drivers.
How do I connect a nano mini to the usb with this ft232rl adapter?
Thanks for the video... I'll stop buying devices that uses the FTDI chip!
omg i got the 2.12 i checked the ftserui2.dll file properties. what do i do ? i know iv bricked my chip but how can i get rid of this driver ?
got some too; a few weeks ago there already was a fellow throwing a automated repair pgm to use the counterfeits again! Thumbs up!
FWIW i think you'll only pick up the new driver if your install of windows has never seen an FTDI FT232 and has to go fetch a driver for it. I've been using Nanos the whole time unaffected as my Win7-64 install still retains 2.8.x.x with no need to update.
Hi, thanks for the video. So it seems that I will get away safe now when I decide to buy Arduinos.
I had one of these "bambus" LED-Clocks which I broke because I got mad. The buttons on the back were scrambled suddendly. ON/OFF did suddendly switch the clap feature on and off instead of the display on and off. The down button did not work at all and I could not set the date and clock anymore properly! So I opened it up "carefully" (Tell it to my left ring finger that got hurt...) and I decided to use the beautiful LED display to build my own Arduino based clock. I also want to add a radio control feature.
hi,
I do not know if it can help you but I had a similar problem and I managed to run the Nano with CDM20824 drivers ...
The CDM 2.08.28 WHQL Certified don't work on my computer...
Greetings, MD
I have a personal stock of cheaper CH340 nanos. I saw that the 3.3 regulator on nano only works when the unit is powered from USB. A bit annoying. I'm guessing the regulator is built-in to the chip? (Don't have one to hand to inspect right now!)
Yes the 3.3v regulator is part of the serial converter chip
Very informative Julian, thanks :)
Many thanx for that version-number info, Julian! :) :)
TubiCal You're welcome - it's useful for me to look back at, when I forget.
Julian Ilett you should add what version is safe again
They've done this again.
I didnt know about this issue, and installed 2.12.x drivers on my chinese board. It never worked. I installed 2.10 drivers after reading this stuff. In driver details I am getting "Device USB\VID_0403&PID_0000\FTY35H7I was configured." PID is 0000, so does it mean the chip is damaged?
I keep getting message "COM14 port is already in use... etc etc"
Fortunately, your chip is NOT damaged. FTDI driver simply overwrote the original PID with zeros, in order for Windows to be fooled and no longer recognizing the device. Google for it, there are a few methods for recovering from this issue and get your fully up-n-running machine back.
Hello
Please if possible to change sn for ftd232rl. Thx
Seems i have the same buggy Nano as you have Julian;
PID is still 6001 in the device itself, windows 7 has driver version 2.10.00 installed and device shows up as "USB Serial Port (COM8)" in the device manager.
Still, i've never been able to upload a sketch to the Nano.. the error is always:
"avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00"
(with other Arduinos this can be solved to unplug and replug the device if this occurs, but never any luck with this one)
Update after little internet wandering:
I bougth this Nano from Dx end of nov. 2012 (SKU 81877)
One of the reviewers posted:
"It comes without the Arduino bootloader and wrong config for the ATMEGA fuses. You need an ISP or another working Arduino to fix this."
That explains it all i guess.. and i don't have an ISP :-(
pl2303 can be a pita if you have a fake, as any pl driver later than 2008 wont work right, you need to 2007 pl drivers or you get code10 error in windows
The same happens if you get an older pl2303 chip (I think the PL2303HX). I think the oldest version that is supported with the current driver is maybe the PL2303HXA
Based on the markings looks like I have 2 real and 1 fake. CH340 - seems to me unlike the FTDI or (non FTDI Arduino Uno R3) Windows does not remember each device and assign a unique COM port number to it. Also had the feeling that a reset on one CH340 reset others connected at the same time. Maybe the 340 does not have individual serial number.
Just as a random aside, my Velleman K8200 3d printer controller board which is based off the Arduino mega 2560 uses an FTDI chip which I would assume is real since Velleman seem unlikely to use fakes, but the chip definitely is not laser etched.
I have 3 Nano's with the FTDI chip, running version 2.12 ...none of my Nano's work through the USB. Wasted a whole day trying to get them working before I heard this story.
Cant see what the outcry was about - its a double standard: if you buy counterfeit MS Windows installation disk with fake Key and it fails activation you cant demand from Microsoft that they give you proper key because you spent your money on a fake product! This is pretty much what is expected from FTDI.
pirating windows is a completely different situation. if I did that, I would be the one doing something wrong, and I wouldnt then complain if MS did something to make it stop working because I know I should have bought a genuine copy. well I probably would complain but Id know deep down that I really wasnt entitled to.
but this was different because I dont buy chips at all, I buy assembled products or modules. I have no possible way of knowing whether something I order online has a fake or genuine chip somewhere inside it and theres no way I could reasonably be expected to know. the people who lost out in fdtigate were the innocent consumers who bought things in good faith from retailers who likely bought their stock in good faith too from manufacturers who also might have bought components in good faith from the actual guilty party, the manufacturer of the counterfeit chips. ftdi should have gone after the makers of the chips, and maybe the manufacturers who sourced those chips for their products since they are in a position to tell real from fake and presumably have ways of doing so. targeting the people at the opposite end of the buying chain was idiotic.
I was just getting into arduino at the time and hadnt paid any attention to which usb chips were on them but afterwards I made damn sure I never bought a duino or serial adapter with an ftdi chip because I had no confidence in them. and it seems like plenty of other people felt the same so its gratifying to know that ftdi's stupidity and shortsightedness probably cost them a lot of money.
Hello dear, is it possible to upload arduino sketch in atmega328 only by using USB-TTL FTDI chip(this chip has no dti pin, so i can't connect it to the microcontrollers reset pin 1)
+rlc circuit You can also use RTS if it has it.
+rlc circuit I was able to upload an arduino sketch using my CP2102 USB-UART adapter WITHOUT a RST pin. All you have to do is wait for the Arduino software to go from "Compiling" to "Uploading" As soon as you see it uploading, press the reset button on the Arduino and your sketch will transfer.. Works like a charm!
thanks :)
I am one of the guys who used to buy genuine chips from FTDI (because counterfeit chips are not worth it). However, after this move from FTDI, I switched to using the CP2102.
IMHO, bricking devices was a sucker decision from FTDI, because even the unwary user or maker doesn't know if the chips he bought are genuine, because even reputable sources may get flooded with fakes. And, even if someone willingly buys fake chips, he shouldn't deserve having their devices bricked. Using poor quality chips is as bad as it is, and FTDI would never gain any clients by bricking fake devices. Futile move.
I'm pretty sure I got one of the fakes. It came from Deal Extreme (www.dx.com/p/ft232rl-usb-to-serial-232-ttl-adapter-module-for-funduino-blue-3-3-5v-206995 , ordered about half a year ago), but I'm sure it's available on Ebay, too. The markings are exactly the same as on the russian website, including identical date code and batch number (I guess that's what the long number in the middle is). It doesn't look laser etched and also the pin one detent is smaller than on the real ones.
My driver version was 2.8.something. Windows update got me to 2.10 today when I tried on purpose. My module is busted anyway, because while using the ISP header on the board its IO pins were killed by an AVR that had the pins used for ISP set to output while normally running (this is no problem with a normal ISP programmer like an USBASP).
Since the USB-side of the fake FTDI is still working (I can connect and even send garbled data to another module - based on a CP2102), I may try to brick it on purpose by installing driver version 2.12. I'm just not sure if I can get rid of the "malware" driver again...
why i didnot no about the dtl pin.... iam bad.
But.. if you are stuck with the 2.12 version you can fix the problem with the help of this video: Unbrick Arduino FTDI Driver Update Win7 Arduino Nano/Micro/ProMicro FT232R USB UART. It was my fix for a funduino clone.
Interesting. Meanwhile I am happy with my arduino micros, which simply do not need a usb to serial. The chip had a direct usb communication, and can be used to emulate a keyboard or mouse.
Right, that explains it very well. Ta!
You can always just get a ch340 or a cp2102/4
Interesting. The 5.11 and 5.12 code, whatever its purpose, was intended to work on official FTDI chips. I don't think FTDI is to blame for the fact that the fakes did not support this code. A fake is a fake. The same disassembled code could be used to repair the fake chips by the way, by writing back the valid IDs instead of zero. I think that that's why it was called semi-permanent bricked. Oh well, this is old news!
2.11 and 2.12 *
Yes, you surfed the web. Wow. Much fun.
Yes, you saw the video. Wow. Much fun.
Love your videos normally Julian but please can you try use some screen capture software. It is very painful watching your computer screen that you have recorded using your phone.
I agree. But then he would also have to edit videos before uploading, so it might be a choice between a video that makes you dizzy, or no video at all. So Julian, do whatever pleases you, I am grateful for the free content anyway, thank you very much!
It would be a waste of time that will result in videos being uploaded less often. I don't mind about this issue at all. Or the other issue people keep complaining all the time; the autofocus thing.
Really stupid move on ftdi.
Safe to go back in to the water then. Goodbye FTDI !
I had bought me a fake arduino nano and i must install the "CDM v2.10.00 WHQL Certified".
You can download 2.12.00 driver from their site, but i believe it is not the one on Windows Update.
www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%20v2.12.00%20WHQL%20Certified.exe
www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/D2XX.htm
What happens if fakers start laser etching ? lol
I didn't know a bean about this, thanks for the vid !
They don't need to make them physically identical, no one really cares, but I'm sure they will change the internal firmware to make them so they appear genuine even to TDIs snooping
There is a patched/resigned driver available.
Found it on reddit, tested it om mij ft23rl board and it worked again after installing the 2.12 driver. Removed 2.12 driver from windows, installed the resigned one, and all is well again.
onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=86EF72597602DD78!271164&authkey=!AIWwL-755E4FbwU&ithint=file%2czip
please get a bit of screen recording software for your computer, looking at an LCD through a camera makes my eyes hurt
slango20 I am looking into that, but I want auto zoom, and it would require a separate mic.
I'd not been aware of this move by FTDI - until this week, stuck on holiday in the middle of no-where - I found myself with a dead FTDI board- sure enough - PID=0. Windows 8.1 could do nothing about it but luckily I also had a Linux machine with me - i.e. a Raspberry Pi. Putting clues from two blogs together I managed to restore the board. Clearly one wants the genuine thing (though after pulling a stunt like that I will be looking for alternatives to FTDI products in the future) but there is absolutely NO way to get one where I am for the next few days - hence the fix here. tech.scargill.net/ftdi-bricked-chips-fix/ - I've stated in the blog that I don't recommend using counterfeit products and so this should not be considered a permanent solution but if it gets one innocent end user out of a jam...
Peter Scargill Run this program and Your back on track.
www.wch.cn/download/CH341SER_EXE.html
FTDI did it on purpose - it is for sure.
those are not fake
Fuk The Device Instruction...lol
Julian Ilett you should buy on aliexpress.com, there things are cheaper than ebay!
Roberto Santo Confirmed, I just bought an Arduino uno clone on Aliexpress for ￡ 1.80 shipping included!
arduino is very very cheap there