Hi! Hope you are doing well! For those who are curious, yes I updated the thumbnail. I finally was able to have time to redraw Kieran concept art fully. If you want to see it's full concept art, check out this link! :) pokeli.tumblr.com/post/749234890002890752/pok%C3%A9mon-scarlet-and-violet-champion-kieran Have a great moment!
I love the idea of this really intimidating villian who on occasion just whenever the main character is around will unconsciously just say "oh gee wowzers"
@@VOX-TECH-TRUST-US He wanted to defeat his rival so he utilized a legendary. Legendaries are near impossible to capture, so he used a masterball. He is just an early gen protagonist without plot armor.
Hydrapple is such a thematically fitting ace for him. Its aggression is limited by its own " fickle " nature, but its ability to support its team is infinitely stronger and more consistent.
@maganhassan2627 It means to change frequently, or to have fragile and easily adjusted values. I say Kieran is fickle because his true intentions/values seem to fluctuate until we finally understand his reason for changing and get to have him help us.
The fact I used my hydreigon that was from my very first pokemon game agianst his hydrapple. Not only did we have both have hydras as our aces but both of us had only 1 pokemon that stayed part of our new teams that were from our beginning teams 2 Hydras that witnessed our beginnings and what we became now that have been by our side. It actually was pretty impactful and really fitted the whole true rival agianst us.
@@yaboi-rowlet I did something similar by bringing my starter, Meowscarada into the match, when every other member changed. it hit different to me that at the end, only our aces remained in the finale, our closest allies dueling, sharing our goals of victory, both there from the start and here at the end... if anything I consider Kieran the true Rival of Scarlet/Violet because of that battle alone
Fun fact: on top of pretty much having a meltdown if you bring out Ogerpon, his AI is programmed to prioritize Ogerpon as a target until she goes down.
It's a good thing I brought my Ride Miraidon for this fight along with Koraidon. I wanted my Paradoxes to have an adventure especially since the levels are finally "challenging".
What's very strange is that his Hydrapple, who should've targeted my Rock Ogerpon and kill her with his Fighting Tera Blast, targeted WHIMSICOTT, a FAIRY. Very rare occurrence
Nemona when you beat her: Woooooh! Yeah baby! That's what I've been waiting for! That's what it's all about! Kieran when you beat him: l'M GOlNG TO KlLL YOU, AND *THEN* KlLL YOU AGAlN.
its not just these two but the crowd as well when we battle Nemona everyone is cheering and having a good time and when we win the battle everyone including Nemona is happy for us. With Kieran however its the complete opposite when he loses not only is he upset about the outcome but the audience's is as well we hardly get a congratulations outside of drayton and lacey
@@kidnamedzit They should've just said fuck it and made his whole team level 100 honestly. What did they have to lose? The whole DLC's difficulty as a whole was clearly aimed at older players anyhow.
Wierd realization: All the BB league E4 Has starters. Crispin has Blaziken Amarys has Empoleon Lacey has Primarina Drayton has Sceptile (the only one without his specialty type, but it's mega has) And Keiran has Incineroar.
@@CaliburXL99same happened to me except mine felt more personal because I U-Turned to get Ogrepon in safely and it ate the Hurricane immediately upon coming out
I'm glad they added dialogue for that. I missed out on Carmine's reaction to seeing Ogerpon but I HAD to face him with Ogerpon to see if there's special dialogue between them.
I can see both sides of this theme. For Kieran, he's doing everything he can to finally beat us. For the player, we're basically trying to save Kieran from himself and bring back the same shy, yet skilled and sweet boy we met back at Kitakami.
This definitely works as both a "I will finally tear you down" theme for Kieran and a "I want the real you back because this certainly isn't you" for the player.
I dunno if its a bug or not, but the fact the music doesn’t stop after you beat Kieran seems poetic: He got so wrapped up in defeating you, he didn't realize he already lost. The cutscene after is the abrupt crash.
The moment after the battle was heavy. Draydon be like:...ex-champ... into his ears is a downer for someone who got crazy, just wanting to be even or stronger than you.
That... was not aimed at Kieran believe it or not. It was aimed at his passenger. He has a few line drops that show who he's talking to. Kieran OBVIOUSLY isn't possessed but he's not alone as shown by his hairstyle being in the shape of a toxic chain around a peach. If you talk to the Peach Plushy at Peachy's before this, you get regular "It's a dusty decoration line". After? " ... And it smells sweet?" The events I'd like to point out is when you lie to Kieran it's in front of Peachy's with the "plushy" in frame. Not long after Kieran starts behaving strangely as if someone is guiding him to wrong conclusions... The punch that resurrected the Loyal Three, his new Hairstyle, and finally... Drayton's Peachy line and the literal ONLY TIME you see him behave as a villain... with the "Ex-Champion" line. Drayton... is scary. Then this... : **Spooky sound** Mumble... mumble... Next.... time...
I think Drayton could sense Pecharunt’s influence over Kieran and knew about it somehow. I think he’s been trying to break it off him ever since he lost and we were the most convenient option.
nah drayton was absolutely taking the piss lmao. its possible he was the previous champion and did it out of spite, but regardless drayton saying that is completely in charater imo
I don't want to hear jack from Drayton. Dude could've beaten Kieran himself, but was too lazy to do it (Their team's levels weren't *That* far apart). But instead, he coaxes us, a total outsider, to do the job for him.
I like how his character arc is told through his teams. In Kitakami, he’s obsessed with the ogre, and he uses ugly, mean looking Pokémon like Shiftry, Probopass, and Gliscor. But here, he only cares about beating you. He uses competitively strong Pokémon like Dragonite, Incineroar, and Grimmsnarl. He’s lost sight of the reason WHY he wants to defeat you in the first place. His ace, Dipplin, started out cute and sweet, but then it evolved into a devilish Hydrapple that only cares about Fighting.
Leon when you bring Eternatus : "Oh wow cool! You brought Eternatus here in the battle!" Kieran when you bring Ogerpon : AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I honestly thought when I brought out Ogerpon he would have said "You know what, fuck the battle, I am beating you with my bear hands!" As he would start to physically charge at the player
Imagine Ogerpon for a sec: You're exploring this new shiny place under the sea with your new companion. All of a sudden, you two run into a familiar face from your old home in Kitakami - Carmine, the girl who helped you get your masks back! She's so happy to see you and even happier to battle with you again! You and your companion learn that her brother is here, too. You're excited to see him again. After all, he got the village to not be scared of you anymore! After exploring more of this shiny place and meeting more people like your companion, you two are finally going to battle your friend Kieran. You're called out of your Poké Ball. Why does Kieran look so different? Why is he looking at you like that? Why are his eyes so cold? Then he screams at your companion. Then he zeroes in on you. What must have gone through that poor Pokémon's mind?
if i was ogerpon and heard this person who i thought was my trainer’s friend say that kind of stuff to them, forget league rules i’m ivy cudgelling this dumbass straight in the skull you don’t get to say those kinds of things to my trainer after trying to take me away from the one who i wanted to go with because you were upset i chose the person who helped me and not you
@@LegalPhantom I think what he is getting at is through Ogerpon's eyes, one of the few friends she has made while in solitude is suddenly looking at her with vitrial and hatred, to the point where all his attacks are now focused on Ogerpon, with Ogerpon wondering why her friend is treating her this way.
I'm not ashamed to admit it, he is by far my favorite champion in the series. The stakes felt so much higher than a formal battle to be champion. It really felt like the finale of a bitter feud.
@@USSFFRU I think that goes to how how obsessed he was with beating us. Normally, when we beat most evil team leaders for the finale (I say most because of Ghetsis and Lysandre), they're like "I'll grow and change as a person". Not Kieran. He's not going to let that slide.
Its because the stakes are higher than the previous champion battles. You’re trying to bring your friend back who’s already on the deep end. And the music does one hell of a job expressing that
Technically N's fight is the highest stakes champion fight of the series. And don't give me the "But he's not a Champion", he was allowed in the league, beat the E4 and Alder fair and square meaning he must've gotten all the gym badge too which make sense as he essentially stalks you throughout the game
If you analyze Kieran's story carefully his situation is essentially a dark reprisal of Nemona's story with your character. Nemona immediately recognized your talent, appointed herself as your rival, and carefully guided your gym challenge throwing curve balls at you. All so you would develop a fondness for combat and healthy competitive sport, reach the same heights, and enjoy the thrill of combat as a fun activity together. You on the other hand, intentionally or not, invaded Kiran's life, became the protagonist of what in his eyes was his story to tell and his dreams to achieve, deliberately left him out of them, and when the time came to prove his worth you showed no quarter. The result is that you unknowingly created a bitter and resentful victim and in the end he never got proper catharsis or resolution. Gamefreak has been criticized a lot for toning Rivals down, going from competitive jerks like Blue and Silver to mellow pushovers like Hop and Hau. Scalet and Violet did an interesting take by justifying the latter by having Nemona already be a champion from the start as well as a mentor... and subverted the former by making YOU the jerk rival to Kieran.
The competitive jerk rivals always hardcore sucked and fell flat on their asses. Hard to take someone like Blue seriously when all he does is brag that he's a Professor's grandson after I curbstomped him 6-0 for the 11th time in a row. All Blue does is come off as a sore loser in denial that he sucks at everything. He had zero merit or cerdibility to justify his attitude other than being an entitled brat. With Kieran on the other hand we have very single bit of context why he's a mean rude rival, because it is YOUR own fault that he went that route. I 100% buy that Keiran would turn out like this and have such a bitter grudge towards the player.
@@elin111 Rather than Kieran being a rude rival to the player, I see it more as your character himself being a harsher rival to Kieran. However unlike Blue, you do curbstomp him
I mean, it's not really a pipeline, he could have gotten off the crazy train at any time. I think his character development is more impactful when you remember that even though the cards were stacked against him, he could and should have turned things around before the literal last possible moment.
As Kieran's theme evolves, it sounds more intense, but also it sounds like it has less depth. He grows as a battler, but that eats away at him as a person.
You can even see that in his character model. Look at his eyes, and you can see bags under them. As Carmine said, Kieran had been cutting back on sleep to train.
I feel like Kieran's story and arc play on the trope that the player always gets the special/legendary pokemon (since it would lame if you weren't allowed to catch one), even when another character like Kieran had a lifetime obsession with Ogrepon. Kieran is literally the only character who's aware of how the player happens to become loved by everyone and have fate on their side no matter what in the end, and that it is in fact, damn unfair/broken. Really breaks the fourth wall in a way, and I love it.
@seanps3d889 Difference is how it came to be. You do eventually get a Sivally of your own, and in Hop's case, you already had a Hero. But in Kieran's case, you took everything and left nothing.
Honestly, Kieran’s “villain arc” was exactly how I wanted it to go. I saw this sad, scared little boy, and being the instigator, I wanted him to break out of his shell and take charge like his sister. I wanted him to become someone who others took seriously. A lot of people said they liked Kieran being innocent and disliked Carmine for being a bully, but I loved that. In real life, siblings will say things that unintentionally hurt each other. People will snatch your dreams up right in front of you. You can’t just stay down forever. You have to show toughness, courage, resilience. Otherwise you will continue to get stepped on. All in all, I approve of Kieran’s character development.
Right? In part 1 I was like "yeah obviously Carmine shouldn't have lied for no reason other than to cause drama for the plot, but that doesn't change the fact that Kieran is a loser who thinks his obsession with the ogre means he's entitled to it." But then in part 2 I was like "yeah, now you've got some fire in your belly, this is someone I can respect!"
While I could have done without Kieran's overt assholeishness after Part 1, he absolutely needed the push he got from both Carmine and Juliana/Florian in it. He went from that shy little boy that couldn't even *ask you to battle him* to someone that can push you to your limits if you don't bring your A game. You're his rival, and that rivalry forged him into someone that could stand by your side when it finally came down to it.
@@Mr-Trox Yeah but Carmine and Juliana/Florian went too far with their overprotective nature, with Carmine being too controlling and forceful while Juliana/Florain barged in and took his dreams away from him, causing him to snap. These two weren't exactly perfect role models and deserve to see their efforts with Kieran nearly in vain with him refusing them, only then to ask for help when things went south because of what he did with Terapagos and then he grew out of his dark path.
@@basilofgoodwishes4138 Kieran wasnt entitled to his dream. He sat by and let the time he could have spent with Ogerpon pass by in vain. He thought he deserved Ogerpon, when the protagonist and Carmine helped her the most and earned her friendship by battling the Loyal 3 for her masks. He needed to learn that in order for you to achieve your dreams you have to reach and grasp the opportunities when they come, that you can't achieve a dream by letting everyone else do the hard work for you. The only thing the protagonist did wrong was go along with Carmine's lie.
So essentially, Kieran turned from a Hop into basically the polar opposite of Nemona. Both of their teams are more competitive oriented teams, Kieran even having alot of nasty tricks rarely seen in mainline games. Both of them also are so strongly focused on battling others but especially the player. However, Kieran really lacks a reason to fight beyond revenge on the player, he doesn't seem to like fighting as much as Nemona, he does it more for the sake of it. I also think that this basically mirrors 2 types of high level competitive players as well, while Penny just uses a team of Pokemon she likes and Arven literally has the casual playthrough 'friends along the way' team. I think this generation is good at making team lineups that thematically fit their trainers.
@@ShockInazuma To be fair, Kieran at least didnt have an older brother who happend to be a champion, which was a big part of Hop's entire drive to begin with.
Same with the Spanish guitar in Geeta's. While the guitar solo in Kieran's is an absolute banger, the one in Geeta's had no business being too damn sexy for a Pokemon game.
This doesn't sound like other Champion themes, but that makes sense. You're not fighting a glorious battle to become the best, you're fighting a teenager who has gone mad with power. I think him turning out not to be possessed was a good thing. Makes a better character arc that he became this on his own accord.
Well... Drayton's "Peachy" line... Drayton's cold "Ex-Champion" line... Kieran: *Spooky sound* *Mumble Mumble* Next... time... Kieran looking more then just defeated... but also abandoned after that battle. I don't think Kieran was possessed... but we pissed something off clearly that was possibly... bringing out his full potential and hitching a ride inside his head. Whatever it was was not controlling him... that much is made perfectly clear after you beat him. However it was there otherwise the Loyal Three would not have resurrected and run from battle the moment they saw him. There is also this... If you talk to the Peach doll before going to BBA and beating Kieran... it's just a dusty decoration. but after.... there is "and it smells sweet...?" at the end.
I really like how Kieran’s three battle themes feel like an evolution from each other, really like how Pokemon is incorporating story elements in the ost for more of the recent generations!
@@CigmacicaMega-Kieronion: Ability is probably anger shell as he has the turtle, who has a shield, and obviously gets burning jealousy and bitter malice by level up
I really love how out of control this theme sounds..it really fits his current state...and the fact that we still hear parts of his older theme shows that he's still in there somewhere
A detail I love about Kieran's theme is that every battle theme has a triumphant sounding ending transition, except Kieran's. It sounds like everything crashing down. Beating him did NOT make it better
Additionally, this music doesn't stop once you've won. The cutscene only starts after you skip through the dialogue. In his mind, he is STILL battling you and it's only when you trigger the cutscene that he comes to the reality that he lost to you, AGAIN. Kinda reminds me of the Volo fight. After you beat a NPC in battle, a bit of text pops up saying "BATTLE DECIDED!"... except for Volo. His music ends and his team is defeated, but the battle is far from over, even if it's not directly told to you. I love subtle hints using gameplay mechanics we are familiar with, such as boss themes and dialogue.
Carmine has only 1 version of her theme and kept her sanity. Meanwhile, Kieran has 3 (4 if we count his Terapagos battle) versions of his theme and he lost his sanity.
He didn’t lose his sanity… He wanted to surpass the player, and hated that Orgepon chose them over him, so he had to one up the player somehow. He was merely being petty.
@@ShadowEclipex Criminal how the game has you befriend her while watching Kieran have a breakdown in real time in basically both DLCs. I get its all about catching them all, but damn they really couldn't let him get Ogerpon?
Personally, I feel like the end of the theme's really under appreciated. First of all, his theme keeps going even after his defeat. He's still in "battle mode" and is processing his loss just like any competitive player who trained hard and had the perfect plan and just stands there in shock when defeated. He only snaps out of it and breaks down after the audience starts looking down on him after him losing despite acting all high and mighty and hostile towards them before. The icing on the cake being Drayton's comment immediately afterwards.
I noticed that his battle is a complete 180 compared to nemona. When you do her battle it's in the middle of the city everyone crowds around and cheer for you both and when you win everyone including nemona is happy for you. Then you have Kieran when you battle him it's in the middle of the school everyone gathers around to see the battle but when you beat him not just Kieran but everyone around you is disappointed and just leaves the elite four are the only ones who congratulation you
The fact that the song ends not with Kieran's song ending on a triumphant note, but abruptly with the piano really sells it well for Kieran's arc - he was once again flying high before having the rug pulled out from under him by the player.
We broke him so badly that he gets a panic attack upon seeing another, different legendary about to imprint on us and immediately flings a master ball at it specifically to prevent that from happening again. At that point, i kind of just wanted to let him have Terrapagos just so that he could have one win that he could be proud of.
Just wait till we get Masters EX models because I'm sure we'll get Indigo Kieran + Hydrapple, Briar + Terapagos, Drayton + Archualadon, Carmine + Sinischa, and Teal Kieran + Ogrepon (or Ogrepon will be an event pokemon for the MC to use like Sogaleo or Dialgia)
I wasn’t the biggest fan of this theme when I did the battle, but afterwards when I watched other people’s videos on it, it was so good. And also Drayton saying “ex -champion” is the coldest thing I’ve ever heard. 9/10 battle, amazing
Drayton is right though, Kieran beating the league is one thing, but his intense drive to beat us made him forget why he loved battling so much His transformation is an example of what happens when someone becomes too engrossed in competitive battling IRL, you stop enjoying the battles and only care for winning
To be fair, Drayton was trying, on his own way, to bring Kieran back to his senses. I love that he was misguided, because he's a human and can make mistakes.
once i saw kieran again in dlc2 threatening to expel a kid from a club for losing a battle i genuinely felt true hatred for him to see the player character so happy to see him broke my heart, like you don’t know how much this boy wants you dead please stop trying to talk to him i felt so happy beating him down, he nearly took out my whole team so i felt actually challenged, but holy shit it felt like i was avenging the people of bb academy in a way and then to see that he hadn’t learned anything from that battle, after still holding a grudge against the player for taking ogerpon away from him, like lil bro you didn’t do anything to really help her, hell you STOLE the mask the player and carmine were going to give back to ogerpon, you intentionally avoided helping the player and carmine retrieve the other three masks, expected clearing ogerpon’s name in the village to be enough to win her over, and you still believe you’re entitled to her, bro why do you think she’s so afraid of you in the first place? and then treating smol terapagos less like an actual pokemon and more like a tool for victory over one person who wanted nothing bad to happen to him, kieran wanted the player character dead, bless that poor kid’s heart they witness someone they thought was a kind soul with anger issues and saw as a friend throw them under the bus, blame them for everything wrong in their life and try to pretty much kill them and they still have it in their heart to forgive kieran and think he can change back to who he was before i was seething after that whole event, but the player character still forgiving him warmed my heart somewhat wow i just wrote an essay didn’t i? tl;dr i genuinely hated kieran in dlc2, dude brought his own downfall on himself and i’m shocked at how forgiving florian/juliana really are
Everyone’s talking about Incineroar and Grimmsnarl, but the worst things about his team is he ditched his Poliwrath for Politoed. Boxing almost every member of your old team is something, but replacing one of your members with the better version is a gut punch
He boxed his Shiftry, Yanmega, Probopass & Gliscor as well. Kieran is just trying to revamp his pokemon team so he can find and capture one of the strongest pokemon and train them real hard by battling trainers at the terrarium including the BB academy elite four to enhance his skills more on being able to beat the Main character as the BB academy champion.
Dude really brought out rain, screens, and hyper offense on ONE TEAM. Kieran was a defcon 1 level threat. Only had two of my Pokémon left when I beat him.
My team somehow had all the tools to counter his team. Rotom and Kroodile to shut sweepers down and stall screens, Ninetales to replace Rain with Snow. With his team unable to hit hard, send the big ones Ursaluna and Beartic to sweep without restrain.
I was so terrified of his fight I got to lvl 90’s on the whole team, and I was justified in my fear. Ogrepon was the last one standing by the end, even then had to use a lot of healings items. Felt dirty when I had to revive Ogrepon by the end
The dude pulls out weather dynamics, the meta king of Doubles, and prankster screens because he is THAT determined to kick our asses. Proof that spite is a hell of a strong motivator.
@@joshuakim5240Having seen all of that stuff before, it made the fight easy for me. There's no fear if you know what the enemy's gonna do! I was thinking maybe he would've learned what your starter was and would grab a counter depending on what it is, but nope.
Yeah, after the disaster that was gen 8 (and perhaps Gen 6 since pretty much every character was bad there), they've really stepped up the characters big time. The gameplay may have suffered but the story, characters, and music, all seem to have gotten priority at this point.
Final Battle! Kieran 0:03 to 0:06 Kieran and Carmine (a melody the two share in their battle themes) 0:07 to 0:20 Champion Kieran (also used in Battle! Kieran & Terapegos) 0:20 to 0:32 Kieran & Carmine 0:32 to 0:45 Kieran's theme 0:59 to 1:25 Final Battle! Kieran 1:37 to 1:44
Do you think that just like Cynthia's piano, kids who played Indigo Disk with no knowledge of competitive will someday get PTSD whenever they hear a violin?
Not really my younger cousin steam rolled him with out following regulation rules Like 2 of the same species No ev / iv training Restricted mons Yeah I wished to see how he handles it with restraints
tbh idk why people are struggle on cynthia , i play through gen 4 like it's just any normal play throught ( without losing a battle ONCE) and im 9 back then
I like that Kieran got so angry at you that he somewhat forgot why he wanted to destroy you. So much so in fact that he instead of seeing ogerpon as a friend, he saw him as a taunt and AI-wise literally targets it.
The rain he sets up in the beginning is super thematic and this music feels like a fight to the death without any weapon, trading blow for blow until one of you collapses. This fight was HARD for me and I appreciate it.
@@Sparta05-f4mhow I had like level 80 shit and I forgor to hyper train some necessary stats like damn did you not ev train give optimal nature or give a decent item to your mons
I dont not care what anyone says, kieran is amazing, he is awesome, his theme is awesome, his fight made me struggle alot, he uses held items, he got character development both ways, very loveable, plus in the epilogue he backs you up against everyone
To me, he's definitely one of the best. Though I don't find him as sympathetic as fans made him out to be given the stuff and choices he made, regardless of what his sister did (unintentionally).
@@elizabethspiker3659 Crispin was the hardest one for me. I've fought him four times, and I've only beaten him twice. Swampert will be your best friend against him because of his Ground secondary type.
Now.. now hear me out. Maybe he's not the best rival ever.. I think N will remain permanently on the podium.. but Kieran is easily right after him. His battle theme is fantastic, and in my opinion, this is the best track in the entire second DLC.
The arc of Kieran was such a good opposition of hops where the two take them learning they ain’t the main character where one accepts and goes in a new path while the other denies it and goes mad
Hop doesn’t think he’s the main character but he does feel like he’s in his brother’s shadow and his arc is about accepting that he doesn’t have to be like his brother. Kieran on the other hand is in fact that jerk rival that apparently everyone wants.
I didn’t think about it at the time, but Incineroar being on his team is so fitting. Kieran pulled the biggest heel turn, and part of his team reflects that.
I'm gonna say it, Gen 9 is my favorite generation. I understand the lag and such, but even then I still had fun. Honestly, the stories told genuinely made me feel very attached to the characters. And I can't think of a single character that I disliked. And it provides challenge that newer games lacked. But the DLC is what really sold it to me. And Kieran is definitely my one of my favorite characters. And his theme is fire!
It IS my top 5 I'm really more impressed with storytelling and characters compared to graphics quality and I guess I was lucky cause I never got lag so those combined with the fact I never played a Pokémon game before this makes it special to me at least
The technical issues are pretty much the only things that really pulled S/V down, but outside of that you could really feel how much love was poured into the games. The story and characters were nothing less than topnotch while the OST is simply on a different level from the past installments in the series.
Grimmsnarl was one of my favorite Pokemon to use in Gen 8, so seeing him have one told me "oh he knows that mon is strong in Doubles" Bro wasn't playing around
@@TarosTheVoidYhyh I figured, it’s just I’ve never heard anyone refer to their own favourite Pokemon as their ace so I found it funny (because usually it’s used to describe the signature Pokemon of a character like Cynthia and her garchomp)
Kieran's story arc made me actually feel bad for having the main character "plot armor" of being unbeatable and having every legendary "love me". Its the first time i actually was like "screw completing the pokedex, let the poor kid have his beloved pokemon" I was never planning on using Orgerpon in my party and I actually feel bad for boxing her. Kieran would give her so much more love. I also love how it used that same "main character syndrome" to ultimately negatively effect a character. Sure it made Kieran push himself to get stronger, but not in a healthy way. I legit was uncomfortable through the first DLC cuz i actually felt i was creating a villain. It actually made me want to throw a fight even tho i knew the stroy wouldnt progress unless i won. Im glad it actually humanized pokemon a bit.
Feels like a lot of fans felt bad for Kieran so much that they forget that the MC earned their victories and love from everyone as well as the fact that Kieran didn't really deserve Ogerpon given how he reacted in Teal Mask. Assuming the MC treated him as an outcast, never giving the MC a chance to explain themselves after his sister told them to lie and more importantly, refused Ogerpon's wishes because he was just jealous. And yeah, he cared about her more but it's not about him and HE KNOWS what he did was wrong. If the MC did create a villain, it was purely accidental and unintentional. It's not their fault Kieran snapped and became a jerk wad and having Kieran win or have Ogerpon wouldn't work at all. That's why he knew and accepted that MC was more capable of caring and raising even if we prefer her to be with the boy.
@dnmstarsi I first want to mention that i havent gotten far into Teal Mask. I know very genericly what happens with Keiran, but i have experienced it yet, so most of my reaction is from the first DLC. I get that Keiran didn't earn that respect of Ogerpon because of his weak will and how he snapped. The game kinda forces you into not telling him about Ogerpon in the first place, which in turn forced you into betraying his trust and friendship. Logically i know it wasn't the MCs fault in the end and, yes the MC does work hard. The first dlc is just the first time it ever made me feel frustrated by my lack of choice..... Yeah, the MC isn't actually a villian, i know that. However, to me the dlc set it up so you can FEEL like you are the in the wrong (even though you arent), it actually makes you self-conscious of your strength. The MC isnt in the wrong, but that doesnt mean that strength will always be recieved with a good natured reactions. It gave another humanizing dimension to the pokemon games by showing you Keiran's veiw point, which I appreciated. There is a little more to it as well, but i dont want to write an essay, and some of it is hard for me to put into writing. It was just really different from what they've done in the past with the normal pokemon games and i really liked it ^_^
@@EoghanDonnelly-m3xthe first time i defeated Terapagos I actually chose the “don’t catch” option. Kieran tells me I have to be the one to catch it and it just opens my pokeball bag anyway.
Stronger but mentally unstable with life orb its like the state of his health is slowing becoming more broke and also especially with politoad representing his depression and his obsession with getting stronger that’s Kieran mental health concluded.
Definitely goes a lot harder than his past themes. It’s all about beating the player now. Looking back at this though, the sounds do make me feel something. Kieran later says he messed up, that he looked up at us and wanted to be like us for so long. But here, he wasn’t like the player. He did become the strongest at Blueberry Academy, but in doing so he forget something while attempting to conquer over everything. The power went to his head and he might’ve forgotten why he wanted to even be strong in the first place. It only led to thoughts of ‘beating MC beating MC beating MC’ repeatedly. And in his past soundtracks there was a more ‘enjoyable’ sound. Like he was enjoying the battles. But here, it’s like Kieran is fighting the battle for life and death. He NEEDS to win. (I am way too happy this was uploaded lol)
My theory on why each pokemon is picked for Kieran here: *Politoad -Instead of Poliwrath, he now has Politoad, maybe to signify instead of just being angry, he has a clear goal to beat you *Dragonite -Is said to rescue drowning people and Dragonite could metaphorically be saving him from drowning in madness by beating you *Porygon-Z - It's stated in Pokedex multiple times it was upgraded to be stronger, but then started behaving oddly, literally Kieran's training *Inceninroar - It is said it gets motivated with stronger trainer, and Florian/Juliana motivated Kieran to the max *Grimsnarl - Kind of relates to a Ogre, like Ogrepon bit Grimsnarl is literally a dark type Ogre *Hydrapple - Literally reflects Kieran, starts out a shy and non-threatning to a ferocious dragon. Its Tera Fighting signifies how badly he wants to beat us
Dragonite: -Is competitively viable Porygon Z: -Is competitively viable Incineroar: Shit he's out for blood -Is competitively viable Grimmsnarl: He saw that competitive winner and his shiny grimmsnarl -Is competitively viable Politoed: -Is competitively viable Hydrapple: Gamefreak need to give him an ace
@@AlvinIsReallyCoolYou say that like Hydrapple isn’t good lol. An 80 BP move that has a 30% chance to become a 160 BP move with no drawbacks. 110 Defense and 120 Spef with assault vest
When I heard Kieran’s first battle theme, I thought it sounded incomplete, like it was going to build up to be a more intense song later on. His second battle theme had more to it, but still didn’t feel quite right, like there was something still missing from it. Now THIS… This finally feels right. I can’t help but feel sad when listening it though because I can just feel his stress and pain in the instrument choices and how the music is played. KIERAN MY BOI 😭
I literally was saying at the screen, “why are you forcing me to lie? Just let me explain that the grandpa doesn’t want me to say anything about what we talked about and to take it up with him.”
I’d say Kieran is one of the most well written pokémon rivals. if not a pokémon character in general! i hope game freak continues on the path it going. it gives me a sense of hope
I just don't like how he just MAGICALLY gets over everything and goes right back to being our friend the minute he loses Terapagos. It just comes off as forced. But because Game Freak is all about friendship and stuff.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Well no, Kieran actually makes more sense by letting you catch Terapagos at the end. You can see in his Championship battle when he says "I know that what I'm doing is right, and soon you will too" that he's trying to reassure himself that what he's doing is good, because deep down he knows he's wrong, that he causing more problems for himself than he otherwise would have. When letting you catch Terapagos, he's realizing that he only ever wanted Terapagos to beat YOU, something he realizes will never happen. Kieran sobers up when watching you fight Terapagos and finally becomes disillusioned to what he's been telling himself. He wanted so bad to be like you, and then you took everything from him. He trains specifically to defeat you, and yet wants nothing to do with you. He is both wanting to be you, and to destroy you. He's contradicting himself, hance why he need to keep telling himself that his motives are pure. By the time you fight Kieran at blueberry academy, he's trained to be a strong as you, to be like you, but in the process pushed everyone away from him and lost the spark that lets him ENJOY battling. And it's those bonds with others, and love for Pokemon, that Kieran TRULY wanted to emulate, so in pushing that away he stomped his own dream, and that's what he finds in Area Zero, that's HIS Hidden Treasure. He wants to be friends again because that's all he ever wanted from the start, and he now realizes that nothing is stopping him from doing that except himself, which is the exact same as how the Teal mask starts, when he wants to talk to you but is too shy to do so.
@@autistic_potato1037 Which bums me out because we're likely never gonna see a rival like him again. The next gen is likely just gonna focus on another Hau/Hop clone. Kieran *Defied* the formula and gave it the best middle finger a rival character could give it. Some may not agree, but I respected the hell out of him catching Terapagos with a Master Ball. The dude trained himself to become stronger than most champions. If he kept on training, if we had arrived at BB much later than intended, he could've even reached level 90 if not 100. It just seems like a waste of potential. We see so many friendly rivals that when we finally got to Bede, it was a breath of fresh air. And when I finally met Kieran and saw what he became, *it was like waking up from a cold sleep.* Finally, I had a rival who wasn't hyping me up and being my yes-man. Finally, I had someone who wasn't just going to tolerate me being given all the accolades of the land for almost nothing at all. Finally, I had a man who well and truly wanted to kill me. *Finally, I had a true rival.*
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Well, Gamefreak did confirm that the DLC was going to get free part 3 as an epilogue in January so that's cool. Also can we acknowledge that the "Hidden Treasure Of Area Zero" is objectively the greatest pokemon game It's the only game that truly forces you to train pokemon, to catch pokemon, and to be the best. You need new pokemon because (odds are) your base game team isn't going to cut it, and if you play the indigo disk using only indigo disk pokemon (+ogrepon) it's INCREDIBLY hard, I got swept by the first trainer and his solo level 60 scyther. It's the only time in all of pokemon where I had any incentive to switch out pokemon on my team, I've played every game with just my starter, adding a new pokemon to my team every now and then, and never taking someone out of the party once they were in, and it made the game more cinematic and immersive. But this game made min maxing feel immersive for me, I ended with a new box dedicated to party members, I even had to resort to using party members from my original A-Team and still BARELY beat Kieran, if his Porygon lived on even just 1hp, my starter would've been outsped and ohko'ed by Hyperbeam the next turn (I don't use healing items since trainers don't either in Gen 9) and the first time I took my starter of my team for any reason. And I loved every second of it. My used team members at the end: Meowscarada, Armorouge, Clodsire, Ogrepon, Archaludon, Hydrapple, BM-Ursaluna, Tinkaton, Dewgong, Excadrill, Malamar, ✨Vikavolt, Bacscalibur, ✨Whimsicott, and Ghouldengo. Usually, I don't use more than 4 pokemon total across a whole playthrough.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Well we'll also see Kieran again in MastersEX once they add either an Ogrepon or Terapagos storyline next year I really hope he gets put in the new anime because he'd be such a good antihero for a season 2
Im so glad kierans story was handled gracefully from start to finish Truth be told, ive been where he was before, and it fucking sucks That feeling that nothing you do is good enough That feeling that someone, or even everyone, is getting something you want, or even feel you deserve And that desire to be better than other people, for the simple reason of just being better than them Its an unexpectedly short road for those who walk it, because it either ends in retrospectively obvious failure, or a short sighted victory that leaves you with nothing else afterwards If anyone stands where kierans stood, just remember Youre not the worst at what you do, there will always be people youre better than But if you want your victory against that one person to really mean something, get that victory your own particular way A victory with a random landerous will never feel as sweet as a victory with your furret, brought all the way from gold and silver Be proud of what you can already accomplish, and keep learning humbly to accomplish even more Youd be surprised how much you outpace your original nemesis from that alone
Kieran's character is genuinely the saddest I've ever felt winning against. As the MC, you're handed everything whilst he rots away, seeing everything he's worked up to flutter away for NOTHING. Drayton chastising mans was 100% foul.
Yeah. I get he was probably a dick to Drayton, but come on... the dude just fell to his knees holding his head. He's clearly not ok. Not the time to gloat, especially over a victory that wasn't even yours.
Keiran for most of this episode is the 12 year old toxic COD player who is actually good. Then when you kick his a$$, Drayton is the dude who gives him the teabag in the killcam for the assist
To all curious. There is no bonus dialogue. Kieran just stands there deflated with a distraught expression, they're saying you should take a picture of him in that position because 1. It's the only chance you'll ever get in the entire game and 2. It's hilarious taking a picture of your rival after decimating their team
Seeing his evolution from a shy kind boy to only wanting nothing more than to crush us in battle was insane. You could just see in his eyes how obsessed he was with the idea. I felt awful for him. Gotta say, Kieran is a well written character and I hope we see more similar to this. We made a kind rival become a mean one.
There are few greater hits in the feels than those intense building strings being shattered with those guitar riffs at 0:20, it speaks to one feeling: Kieran is not messing around! This theme sounds like something you'd hear from a 'mean rival' and I love it so much, it's a perfect representation of the apathy Kieran feels when battling. I really love how this theme barely resembles the others say for a couple of motifs, like there remain few traces of the Kieran we once knew. Kieran is by far my favourite character in the DLC and might be one of my favourite in the franchise. I really thought I wouldn't care for him since we'd seen weak guy needs to learn to be strong too many times. But I love how they've reframed it this time around, taking advantage of Paldea's theme of everyone being the hero of their own story. I mean seriously this guy was so distraught by the events of Teal Mask he threw away the entirety of his old team except Dipplin, trained up a new competitively viable one, went back to school and became champion, defeating even the children of gym leaders. And try as he might, he still loses to us after all that effort (someone should have told him we already became champion of our region and he shouldn't feel so bad about losing to us). His team is a god damn menace and it is such a refreshing challenge. He really takes advantage of the double battle format, utilising abilities and moves to debilitate your team and buff his own. If you don't go in with a strategy it'll be hard to keep up and all it takes is one crit (as I found out the hard way) for him to steam roll through your team. Incineroar especially is a god damn issue, my god that thing after Grimmsnarl's reflect genuinely gives me a headache. I'm someone who doesn't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Pokemon games as a whole need to be harder and the reason is that they can take opportunities like this to give as interesting challenges that leave a memorable impression. I think this is probably my favourite fight in all of gen 9. TLDR: best theme + best character in the DLC and best fight in SV!
Love how the start is the end of his previous theme, then the guitar kicks in which is very different to his last themes which tells you this is a different Kieran, even the sparkle in his eyes has gone until the fight vs terapagos when he helps you take it down
maybe an unpopular opinion but if Kieran had existed a few years ago he'd have the same fame as Cynthia. everyone would make the same "pokemon fans when they hear a piano" jokes except it would be with violins and guitars. The only reason why they don't is because most of the fandom are grown people that know the game a lot better than the intended demographic now
bro should've just used friendship points; would've gotten him farther. I mean my walking wake is pretty terrifying when it survives on 1 hp for like 4 turns in a row because i fed it some sandwiches while shiny hunting, and then it crits 'wishing to be praised'. And not to mention my toxic stalling vaporeon in Ultra Sun that lived for ages on 1 hp as Ultra Necrozma slowly perished inch by inch. no joke, it would be really interesting to see a trainer utilize this against you.
@@ogerponreject THAT'D BE SO SCARY but I can kinda see why they wouldn't incorporate that lol specially for THIS Kieran battle. At this point dude didn't seem too big on friendship
@@Baka_Crazy oh I'm not saying he isn't beloved, I'm saying that if he was a character a few years ago say, platinum era he'd have the same fame of being a "dream crusher" like cynthia
Never really LISTENED to it before and never realized how erratic this theme is, it really takes desperation and runs with it. I like how it actually ascends and descends and picks up again, etc. AND THAT STRAINED SCREECH OF THE INSTRUMENTALS AT THE BEGINNING? Imaculate
Kieran turned into a different beast in Indigo Disk. He climbed to the top of his school purely out of the everpowerful feeling that is spite. With a whole new team too. I like to imagine once he got back to Blueberry, he released his entire team to get stronger mons. I mean you cannot tell me he didn't throw away his Poliwrath thinking about Politoed's superiority. The only reason he kept Dipplin is because of it's potential. Kieran's current team is nothing but powerful threats that will crush anyone who challenges him because that was all that mattered to him at that point. Kinda reminds me of Paul from the anime, and I do like me some Paul.
Fortunately, a conversation he has after Indigo Disk's story reveals he still has his old pokemon. One of the group conversations with in the league club room with trainers you can invite over from Paldea. Can't remember which one right now.
I really love what they did with Kieran’s character. They took the same idea they had with Hop, showing us how a different character is affected by the player character wining as always, but instead of a happy ending we were shown just how tragic it can turn out. Though very disappointed, Hop was able to be happy for his friend and found something else to work for, ultimately being able to move on. But Kieran wasn’t mature enough to handle it, and he spiraled. His story has a happy ending of course, but it’s still definitely the darker one between the two. I love this idea, and I’m glad they decided to explore it more thoroughly. After part one of the dlc I simply liked Kieran, but after this my opinion on him skyrocketed. I really like him! Carmine is my favorite, but I adore both of them 💜🖤🧡
@@kieranpleaseforgiveme haha thank you! I think they’re great characters, I don’t get why their respective fans usually hate the other, they’re both awesome!
@@lem0nbell I think it’s because of how they both don’t have the healthiest relationship, and the fans pick sides. But they both really do care for eachother, so there’s really no point..
I love how the BB League Elite 4 use starters that fit them thematically(Lacey with Primarina, Crispin with Blaziken, etc.), and which one does Kieran use? The HEEL Pokémon! Such a great choice!
Kieran's character arc is one of the best in the entire series. He goes from an extremely timid boy who looked up to you to an egotistical monster obsessed with gaining as much strength as possible just to defeat you, all because you took a Pokemon away from him that he loved when everyone else treated Ogerpon like a villain. Kieran is fighting for validation for being cast aside and revenge for you taking what he loved. You are fighting the monster you indirectly created to get your friend back.
More than that; before meeting the player, Kieran wasn't exactly doing good (just look at how the relationship between him and Carmine was). The protagonist, of course, thanks to their plot armor and main characterization, gets all the attention. Can't blame Kieran tho, the player was the protagonist in a history he thought it was HIS, he thought everyone (including the player) was casting him aside since he saw himself as weak an useless. He became obsessed with the idea of power and it started eating him alive
“They couldn’t possibly top Kieran’s final battle theme in Teal Mask, there’s no wa-“ Gamefreak’s drums and guitar department: *allow us to introduce ourselves*
i think i can summarize my thoughts on this theme by saying it's desperately violent and violently desperate, both apply. there a ton of discordant notes, parts that don't go together are stitched like a frankenstein's monster and it really does show how he has broken himself to try and beat the protagonist. it's said multiple times during the story that his behaviour is self destructive, after all. starting off with a discordant piano riff that reminds me a lot of lusamine's, then a calm and tense part and then the strongest guitar riff in a pokemon theme yet. to me it really does feel like raging insanity. the feeling that something is wrong, the calm before the storm and then a snap. like even his signature violin (viola here maybe?) solo feels wrong, it goes on more than it should and it gets slightly discordant too. so i can confidently say that this theme is the angriest one in pokemon yet and goes head to head with lusamine's for its insanity!
Something interesting to note after i checked kieran team, in particular his lead, Drizletoad with dnite, its that its built on the idea that you will be a heartless bastard to lead with ogrepon and inmediately punish you for it, Dnite has Hurricane, which is super effective against 3 of the 4 ogrepon forms, if you tera, if you went with teal mask, hurricane will punish you, if you use water mask, dnite also carries thunder, if you go with fire mask and tera, drizzle will lower your fire moves power so that even a crit wont bypass dnite multiscale not to mention weather ball countering both fire and rock masks, its really interesting, and then if you couple incineroar role, with intimidate furhter lowering ogrepon damage output, it really does well on telling just how much significance kitakami dlc had on him
In addition to what you said about punishing Ogerpon leads, I also found it interesting how Kieran is using a (mostly) special attacking Dragonite set with hurricane and thunder. From my limited knowledge and understanding of competitive Pokémon, I believe special attacking variants of Dragonite are quite rare and are meant to specifically lure in bulky physical walls so Dragonite can snipe their weaker special defenses. And of course you have breaking swipe for spread damage control and extreme speed to pick off weakened Pokémon (Not to mention intimidate Incineroar which is literally the best VGC Pokémon and a pranster Grimmsnarl for support as teammates in the back). All very interesting strategies from Kieran indeed lol
I just want to point out something. Kieran had Dipplin and used that Dipplin as his ace during his Ranked Battles up until he defeated Drayton for the title of Champion. Because Drayton is the only person with access to the TM “Dragon Cheer” that you get for defeating him. Drayton gave Kieran the move needed to finally evolve Dipplin into Hydrapple.
We’ve seen rivals go for jerks to friends, but Kieran went from a friend to a jerk. His family and his one friend lied to his face, his sister and one friend stopped hanging out with him, and then ogerpon chose the player over him. He felt betrayed and became obsessed with getting stronger out of resentment for the player, and I find that so compelling
Kieran has to be, from so many years one of the best written characters in a while. He started admiring the player and trying to emulate it. Then you accomplish all things he wanted to do. Sadly, we crushed his dreams, even catching Ogerpon in the process. He gets so devastated that he became obsessive, wanting to destroy everything we love. Good or bad motivation regardless, he became the champion of Blueberry academy with it's only goal to beat us. In my playthrough, when I challenged him, the battle was really close. His Hydrapple was the only thing left in the field. I felt proud of Kieran. He beated me fair and square. He has to be one of my favourite rivals. I wish Pokemon could write more characters like him.
I've seen people obliterate this kid with lvl 100 EV/IV trained legendaries and stuff, and then take a selfie with him as he's having a whole mental breakdown on the floor. Not to say he didn't have it coming, but I genuinely feel kinda sorry for how much he's getting bullied and clowned on rn. Poor dude :(
It's weird. His team, competitive and balance-wise is far stronger than the Elite Four members. And yet...... all of them gave me an a way harder time by comparison than Kieran himself. I knew they should have made him level 100, but Game Freak for some reason is just too scared to go that route. Him being level 100 with a team like this would have made him *THE* most infamous boss in the whole franchise. But if rumors are anything to go by, they're likely saving that for Cynthia in the remakes for Gen 5. Sucks.....
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Game Freak probably doesn't expect the player to swap around their team for each scenario, but that's one of the optimal strategies. As for me, Kieran lived up to his hype in Indigo Disk...but he had the misfortune of fighting the team I used against Drayton, which included Gardevoir.
I love Kieran as a character, one of my favorites in years that theyve made. The way his team tells his story in different fights, how the music reflects him and the struggle at hand with him. They did amazing with him
Other champion themes: an imposing orchestra but triumphant sounding enough to encourage the player to push past their final challenge Champion Kieran: *You’re eating the dirt and I will use any means necessary for that to happen*
Hi! Hope you are doing well! For those who are curious, yes I updated the thumbnail. I finally was able to have time to redraw Kieran concept art fully.
If you want to see it's full concept art, check out this link! :)
pokeli.tumblr.com/post/749234890002890752/pok%C3%A9mon-scarlet-and-violet-champion-kieran
Have a great moment!
Love the new artwork!
His wicked posture represents his lost sanity 555 like the thumbnail btw.
Love this artwork
This thumbnail scared the shit out of me lmao
*Then it is the only champion where the music does not change (as if the ex-champion does not accept defeat), 2 likes if you agree.*
You can tell he was doing anything to win. Bro brought a Intimidate-running Incineroar with Fake Out. Dude saw the competitive vods
Weather setter
Extreme speed
Pranksters
Multi scale
Yup the kid was something else he froze my garchomp in the first turn
Bro was on Smogon forums
And yet it still wasn't enough, much like that horror show that is the BDSP Battle Tower.
And then you bring two special attackers that thrive in rain against Kieran
Bro was watching WolfeyVGC and MoxieBoosted
I love the idea of this really intimidating villian who on occasion just whenever the main character is around will unconsciously just say "oh gee wowzers"
“Oh golly jee!”
-Older Kieran, probably
Like Porky from EarthBound: A genuine threat to all, but, at the end of the day, is still just a kid.
He's not a villain.
@@ejtamm4130 The first terapagos scene left the chat
@@VOX-TECH-TRUST-US He wanted to defeat his rival so he utilized a legendary. Legendaries are near impossible to capture, so he used a masterball. He is just an early gen protagonist without plot armor.
Hydrapple is such a thematically fitting ace for him. Its aggression is limited by its own " fickle " nature, but its ability to support its team is infinitely stronger and more consistent.
What does fickle mean
@maganhassan2627 It means to change frequently, or to have fragile and easily adjusted values.
I say Kieran is fickle because his true intentions/values seem to fluctuate until we finally understand his reason for changing and get to have him help us.
The fact I used my hydreigon that was from my very first pokemon game agianst his hydrapple. Not only did we have both have hydras as our aces but both of us had only 1 pokemon that stayed part of our new teams that were from our beginning teams 2 Hydras that witnessed our beginnings and what we became now that have been by our side. It actually was pretty impactful and really fitted the whole true rival agianst us.
@@yaboi-rowlet I did something similar by bringing my starter, Meowscarada into the match, when every other member changed.
it hit different to me that at the end, only our aces remained in the finale, our closest allies dueling, sharing our goals of victory, both there from the start and here at the end...
if anything I consider Kieran the true Rival of Scarlet/Violet because of that battle alone
Maybe because he has more than one crazy head emotion fitting for a hydra
Fun fact: on top of pretty much having a meltdown if you bring out Ogerpon, his AI is programmed to prioritize Ogerpon as a target until she goes down.
Wait actually? I thought it was just my bad luck lol. That’s actually kinda sick
It's a good thing I brought my Ride Miraidon for this fight along with Koraidon.
I wanted my Paradoxes to have an adventure especially since the levels are finally "challenging".
Aight time to casually use Ogerpon as a meat shield while I spam D-Dance with Roaring Moon :D
follow me without having to waste a move slot?
What's very strange is that his Hydrapple, who should've targeted my Rock Ogerpon and kill her with his Fighting Tera Blast, targeted WHIMSICOTT, a FAIRY.
Very rare occurrence
Nemona when you beat her: Woooooh! Yeah baby! That's what I've been waiting for! That's what it's all about!
Kieran when you beat him: l'M GOlNG TO KlLL YOU, AND *THEN* KlLL YOU AGAlN.
its not just these two but the crowd as well when we battle Nemona everyone is cheering and having a good time and when we win the battle everyone including Nemona is happy for us. With Kieran however its the complete opposite when he loses not only is he upset about the outcome but the audience's is as well we hardly get a congratulations outside of drayton and lacey
@@lightyoshimanidk why I want to say this
Might be an American thing idk
@@Oreca2005 (shrugs) because blueberry academy is located in unova which is supposed to be based off of America?
Snapcube reference spotted
*Alfred?*
The second Kieran sent out Incineroar I realized he went out for blood
I realized he was tryna be dark with grimsnarl and gone crazy with Porygon z
And I didn’t feel anything as I OHKOed it with surf on inteleon
@@kidnamedzit They should've just said fuck it and made his whole team level 100 honestly. What did they have to lose? The whole DLC's difficulty as a whole was clearly aimed at older players anyhow.
@@SabeNo-rh7mbReally makes me wish they would do a full game that has an easy and hard mode for different players
Wierd realization:
All the BB league E4 Has starters.
Crispin has Blaziken
Amarys has Empoleon
Lacey has Primarina
Drayton has Sceptile (the only one without his specialty type, but it's mega has)
And Keiran has Incineroar.
"You've got some nerve... bringing out the ogre NOW of all times?!"😡
-Kieran when he sees Ogerpon
Learning of that line made me regret not using Ogerpon in my Indigo Disk team.
@@wikiuser92U have no idea how hard I laughed when I did that & saw Kieran’s reaction 😂
Bro instantly used his Dragonite to KO it with Hurricane tho 😭
@@CaliburXL99same happened to me except mine felt more personal because I U-Turned to get Ogrepon in safely and it ate the Hurricane immediately upon coming out
I'm glad they added dialogue for that. I missed out on Carmine's reaction to seeing Ogerpon but I HAD to face him with Ogerpon to see if there's special dialogue between them.
I wanted too but Archaludon was too much of a good mon to sit out
I love how desperate this theme feels, it kinda feels like the MC is willing to bring Kieran back to the little guy he once was
I can see both sides of this theme.
For Kieran, he's doing everything he can to finally beat us.
For the player, we're basically trying to save Kieran from himself and bring back the same shy, yet skilled and sweet boy we met back at Kitakami.
This definitely works as both a "I will finally tear you down" theme for Kieran and a "I want the real you back because this certainly isn't you" for the player.
Would have Kieran went back to his old self if he beat you?🤔
I'm meaning logically not in game where you can rematch him until you win
@@AaronFisher-vu7tq idk
@@AaronFisher-vu7tq I always thought that if you lose Kieran would chastise you for going easy on him and demand a rematch
I dunno if its a bug or not, but the fact the music doesn’t stop after you beat Kieran seems poetic: He got so wrapped up in defeating you, he didn't realize he already lost. The cutscene after is the abrupt crash.
I did realize it and it felt so raw and intense as the battle ended so quickly it made sense why Kieran would be shocked
The moment after the battle was heavy. Draydon be like:...ex-champ... into his ears is a downer for someone who got crazy, just wanting to be even or stronger than you.
well I tried recording the defeat of Kieran but the recording came out so laggy using the Switch recording feature
The ending to the song plays at the start of the cutscene, so it feels intentional imo
S/V fans will always find a way to defend the bugs and glitches
Drayton really hit him with the "ex-champion" line,.. so brutal the poor little boy
That... was not aimed at Kieran believe it or not. It was aimed at his passenger. He has a few line drops that show who he's talking to. Kieran OBVIOUSLY isn't possessed but he's not alone as shown by his hairstyle being in the shape of a toxic chain around a peach.
If you talk to the Peach Plushy at Peachy's before this, you get regular "It's a dusty decoration line". After? " ... And it smells sweet?"
The events I'd like to point out is when you lie to Kieran it's in front of Peachy's with the "plushy" in frame. Not long after Kieran starts behaving strangely as if someone is guiding him to wrong conclusions... The punch that resurrected the Loyal Three, his new Hairstyle, and finally... Drayton's Peachy line and the literal ONLY TIME you see him behave as a villain... with the "Ex-Champion" line. Drayton... is scary.
Then this... : **Spooky sound** Mumble... mumble... Next.... time...
I think Drayton could sense Pecharunt’s influence over Kieran and knew about it somehow. I think he’s been trying to break it off him ever since he lost and we were the most convenient option.
nah drayton was absolutely taking the piss lmao. its possible he was the previous champion and did it out of spite, but regardless drayton saying that is completely in charater imo
I don't want to hear jack from Drayton. Dude could've beaten Kieran himself, but was too lazy to do it (Their team's levels weren't *That* far apart). But instead, he coaxes us, a total outsider, to do the job for him.
Drayton W
I like how his character arc is told through his teams.
In Kitakami, he’s obsessed with the ogre, and he uses ugly, mean looking Pokémon like Shiftry, Probopass, and Gliscor.
But here, he only cares about beating you. He uses competitively strong Pokémon like Dragonite, Incineroar, and Grimmsnarl.
He’s lost sight of the reason WHY he wants to defeat you in the first place.
His ace, Dipplin, started out cute and sweet, but then it evolved into a devilish Hydrapple that only cares about Fighting.
And he’s uses porygon-z to symbolize that he’s lost his marbles
Because of how it twitches around wildly?@@peter7596
@@peter7596and because porygon Z Is an strong Pokémon
@@benedictdakirby9919 Damn straight, that fucker messed me up 3 times before i beat him. Amnesia goes brrr.
Probopass kinda hot ngl
Leon when you bring Eternatus : "Oh wow cool! You brought Eternatus here in the battle!"
Kieran when you bring Ogerpon :
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
And honestly, we can’t blame him can we?
I honestly thought when I brought out Ogerpon he would have said "You know what, fuck the battle, I am beating you with my bear hands!" As he would start to physically charge at the player
Ogerpon? More like Ogerptsdon
@@laravioliiii2832help-
Ogerpon? More like Ogregone
Kieran: YOU IS A MOTHA FUCKA YOU KNOW DAT!?
Imagine Ogerpon for a sec:
You're exploring this new shiny place under the sea with your new companion.
All of a sudden, you two run into a familiar face from your old home in Kitakami - Carmine, the girl who helped you get your masks back! She's so happy to see you and even happier to battle with you again!
You and your companion learn that her brother is here, too. You're excited to see him again. After all, he got the village to not be scared of you anymore!
After exploring more of this shiny place and meeting more people like your companion, you two are finally going to battle your friend Kieran.
You're called out of your Poké Ball.
Why does Kieran look so different? Why is he looking at you like that? Why are his eyes so cold?
Then he screams at your companion.
Then he zeroes in on you.
What must have gone through that poor Pokémon's mind?
if i was ogerpon and heard this person who i thought was my trainer’s friend say that kind of stuff to them, forget league rules i’m ivy cudgelling this dumbass straight in the skull
you don’t get to say those kinds of things to my trainer after trying to take me away from the one who i wanted to go with because you were upset i chose the person who helped me and not you
"Hehe, ivy cudgel go bonk."
She's already used to people treating her like that. Didn't you play the first part of the DLC? She just goes: Bonk!
@@LegalPhantom yeah, maybe with total strangers, sure
@@LegalPhantom I think what he is getting at is through Ogerpon's eyes, one of the few friends she has made while in solitude is suddenly looking at her with vitrial and hatred, to the point where all his attacks are now focused on Ogerpon, with Ogerpon wondering why her friend is treating her this way.
I'm not ashamed to admit it, he is by far my favorite champion in the series. The stakes felt so much higher than a formal battle to be champion. It really felt like the finale of a bitter feud.
And yet it still continued for another 30 minutes
@@USSFFRU I think that goes to how how obsessed he was with beating us. Normally, when we beat most evil team leaders for the finale (I say most because of Ghetsis and Lysandre), they're like "I'll grow and change as a person".
Not Kieran. He's not going to let that slide.
@@ShockInazuma I know, my comment was a joke that despite the fight felt like a finale, the feud continued afterwards. But hey, atleast it did end.
Its because the stakes are higher than the previous champion battles. You’re trying to bring your friend back who’s already on the deep end. And the music does one hell of a job expressing that
Technically N's fight is the highest stakes champion fight of the series. And don't give me the "But he's not a Champion", he was allowed in the league, beat the E4 and Alder fair and square meaning he must've gotten all the gym badge too which make sense as he essentially stalks you throughout the game
If you analyze Kieran's story carefully his situation is essentially a dark reprisal of Nemona's story with your character. Nemona immediately recognized your talent, appointed herself as your rival, and carefully guided your gym challenge throwing curve balls at you. All so you would develop a fondness for combat and healthy competitive sport, reach the same heights, and enjoy the thrill of combat as a fun activity together.
You on the other hand, intentionally or not, invaded Kiran's life, became the protagonist of what in his eyes was his story to tell and his dreams to achieve, deliberately left him out of them, and when the time came to prove his worth you showed no quarter. The result is that you unknowingly created a bitter and resentful victim and in the end he never got proper catharsis or resolution.
Gamefreak has been criticized a lot for toning Rivals down, going from competitive jerks like Blue and Silver to mellow pushovers like Hop and Hau. Scalet and Violet did an interesting take by justifying the latter by having Nemona already be a champion from the start as well as a mentor... and subverted the former by making YOU the jerk rival to Kieran.
The competitive jerk rivals always hardcore sucked and fell flat on their asses. Hard to take someone like Blue seriously when all he does is brag that he's a Professor's grandson after I curbstomped him 6-0 for the 11th time in a row. All Blue does is come off as a sore loser in denial that he sucks at everything. He had zero merit or cerdibility to justify his attitude other than being an entitled brat.
With Kieran on the other hand we have very single bit of context why he's a mean rude rival, because it is YOUR own fault that he went that route. I 100% buy that Keiran would turn out like this and have such a bitter grudge towards the player.
@@elin111 Rather than Kieran being a rude rival to the player, I see it more as your character himself being a harsher rival to Kieran. However unlike Blue, you do curbstomp him
@@elin111 How is it "my" fault if I can't choose not lie to him and not stomp him? Kieran's entire arc is forced and poorly developed anyway.
Il agree that hop was a pushover, but he took the championships seriously because he had wanted specifically to be like his brother
I like Hau cus he's nice and endearing. Plus we literally have Gladion in that gen, what a joke of a complaint, leave this guy alone
From shy, to obsessive, to insane, to back to your friend. What a pipeline.
I mean, it's not really a pipeline, he could have gotten off the crazy train at any time. I think his character development is more impactful when you remember that even though the cards were stacked against him, he could and should have turned things around before the literal last possible moment.
PARKOUR!
He was never my friend and I resent the game for insisting he had to be.
@@BJGvideos bro hates Keiran 😭😭😭
The beef with Kieran was red vs blue all over again he really had to be taught
As Kieran's theme evolves, it sounds more intense, but also it sounds like it has less depth. He grows as a battler, but that eats away at him as a person.
Kinda like turning from a modern Disney villain (wish doesn't count) to more of a classic one, such as Rattigan
You can even see that in his character model. Look at his eyes, and you can see bags under them. As Carmine said, Kieran had been cutting back on sleep to train.
@@wobblewokgaming655 This is off topic, but you need a pfp of Wobblewok at a pc.
@@thepotatoportal69 I have no idea how to do that, but I'd love to.
@@wobblewokgaming655 You could either draw it yourself (if you aren't good at drawing, even better), or use an image editor like photoshop.
I feel like Kieran's story and arc play on the trope that the player always gets the special/legendary pokemon (since it would lame if you weren't allowed to catch one), even when another character like Kieran had a lifetime obsession with Ogrepon.
Kieran is literally the only character who's aware of how the player happens to become loved by everyone and have fate on their side no matter what in the end, and that it is in fact, damn unfair/broken. Really breaks the fourth wall in a way, and I love it.
The main character isn't always the one to get a legendary gladion has silvally and hop gets the cover mascot that's not your game
@seanps3d889 Difference is how it came to be. You do eventually get a Sivally of your own, and in Hop's case, you already had a Hero. But in Kieran's case, you took everything and left nothing.
When we get a crit he also always say "it's like you're the hero of this story or something". He malding and I can't blame him.
This is an interesting observation about Kieran, honestly! Never thought of it this way.
Zinnia goes through a similar thing when we catch rayquaza I think
Honestly, Kieran’s “villain arc” was exactly how I wanted it to go. I saw this sad, scared little boy, and being the instigator, I wanted him to break out of his shell and take charge like his sister. I wanted him to become someone who others took seriously.
A lot of people said they liked Kieran being innocent and disliked Carmine for being a bully, but I loved that.
In real life, siblings will say things that unintentionally hurt each other. People will snatch your dreams up right in front of you. You can’t just stay down forever. You have to show toughness, courage, resilience. Otherwise you will continue to get stepped on.
All in all, I approve of Kieran’s character development.
Right? In part 1 I was like "yeah obviously Carmine shouldn't have lied for no reason other than to cause drama for the plot, but that doesn't change the fact that Kieran is a loser who thinks his obsession with the ogre means he's entitled to it." But then in part 2 I was like "yeah, now you've got some fire in your belly, this is someone I can respect!"
THATS WHAT IM SAYING
While I could have done without Kieran's overt assholeishness after Part 1, he absolutely needed the push he got from both Carmine and Juliana/Florian in it.
He went from that shy little boy that couldn't even *ask you to battle him* to someone that can push you to your limits if you don't bring your A game.
You're his rival, and that rivalry forged him into someone that could stand by your side when it finally came down to it.
@@Mr-Trox Yeah but Carmine and Juliana/Florian went too far with their overprotective nature, with Carmine being too controlling and forceful while Juliana/Florain barged in and took his dreams away from him, causing him to snap.
These two weren't exactly perfect role models and deserve to see their efforts with Kieran nearly in vain with him refusing them, only then to ask for help when things went south because of what he did with Terapagos and then he grew out of his dark path.
@@basilofgoodwishes4138 Kieran wasnt entitled to his dream. He sat by and let the time he could have spent with Ogerpon pass by in vain. He thought he deserved Ogerpon, when the protagonist and Carmine helped her the most and earned her friendship by battling the Loyal 3 for her masks.
He needed to learn that in order for you to achieve your dreams you have to reach and grasp the opportunities when they come, that you can't achieve a dream by letting everyone else do the hard work for you.
The only thing the protagonist did wrong was go along with Carmine's lie.
So essentially, Kieran turned from a Hop into basically the polar opposite of Nemona.
Both of their teams are more competitive oriented teams, Kieran even having alot of nasty tricks rarely seen in mainline games. Both of them also are so strongly focused on battling others but especially the player. However, Kieran really lacks a reason to fight beyond revenge on the player, he doesn't seem to like fighting as much as Nemona, he does it more for the sake of it.
I also think that this basically mirrors 2 types of high level competitive players as well, while Penny just uses a team of Pokemon she likes and Arven literally has the casual playthrough 'friends along the way' team.
I think this generation is good at making team lineups that thematically fit their trainers.
*from Wally
I'd argue Kieran was not as bad as Hop personality-wise.
@@ShockInazuma To be fair, Kieran at least didnt have an older brother who happend to be a champion, which was a big part of Hop's entire drive to begin with.
Man. Kieran wasn't the only guy insane... the electric guitar is too! That guitarist was making love to his guitar in full force here!
Same with the Spanish guitar in Geeta's. While the guitar solo in Kieran's is an absolute banger, the one in Geeta's had no business being too damn sexy for a Pokemon game.
@@thelordoflulz I know. The guitar really suits La Primera well. Too bad I knocked out her team before I could hear that part 😅
Ikr? Also the guitar in Team Star Boss's theme.
@@nevadothecat Don't get me started on how hype that was!
Fr!
This doesn't sound like other Champion themes, but that makes sense. You're not fighting a glorious battle to become the best, you're fighting a teenager who has gone mad with power.
I think him turning out not to be possessed was a good thing. Makes a better character arc that he became this on his own accord.
Not only was he not possessed here, him and your character end up as the only ones NOT possessed in the upcoming Pecharunt event.
@@smward87Might be Carmine who'll get possessed.
@@dnmstarsi She does.
Although I think he should have willingly got himself Toxic Chain'd, if not just to give Pecharunt an appearance in the actual game.
Well...
Drayton's "Peachy" line...
Drayton's cold "Ex-Champion" line...
Kieran: *Spooky sound* *Mumble Mumble* Next... time...
Kieran looking more then just defeated... but also abandoned after that battle.
I don't think Kieran was possessed... but we pissed something off clearly that was possibly... bringing out his full potential and hitching a ride inside his head.
Whatever it was was not controlling him... that much is made perfectly clear after you beat him. However it was there otherwise the Loyal Three would not have resurrected and run from battle the moment they saw him.
There is also this... If you talk to the Peach doll before going to BBA and beating Kieran... it's just a dusty decoration. but after....
there is "and it smells sweet...?" at the end.
I really like how Kieran’s three battle themes feel like an evolution from each other, really like how Pokemon is incorporating story elements in the ost for more of the recent generations!
Kieran -> Kieranger -> Kieronion
@@thepotatoportal69so his fourth battle theme is a mega evolution?
@@CigmacicaMega-Kieronion: Ability is probably anger shell as he has the turtle, who has a shield, and obviously gets burning jealousy and bitter malice by level up
@@martinmoraurena4155 Okay, these have to be the best replies to a TH-cam comment, I have ever seen, ever
But he has 4 themes...
I really love how out of control this theme sounds..it really fits his current state...and the fact that we still hear parts of his older theme shows that he's still in there somewhere
A detail I love about Kieran's theme is that every battle theme has a triumphant sounding ending transition, except Kieran's. It sounds like everything crashing down. Beating him did NOT make it better
Additionally, this music doesn't stop once you've won. The cutscene only starts after you skip through the dialogue. In his mind, he is STILL battling you and it's only when you trigger the cutscene that he comes to the reality that he lost to you, AGAIN.
Kinda reminds me of the Volo fight. After you beat a NPC in battle, a bit of text pops up saying "BATTLE DECIDED!"... except for Volo. His music ends and his team is defeated, but the battle is far from over, even if it's not directly told to you. I love subtle hints using gameplay mechanics we are familiar with, such as boss themes and dialogue.
Carmine has only 1 version of her theme and kept her sanity. Meanwhile, Kieran has 3 (4 if we count his Terapagos battle) versions of his theme and he lost his sanity.
He's surpassed his older sis in strength
He didn’t lose his sanity…
He wanted to surpass the player, and hated that Orgepon chose them over him, so he had to one up the player somehow.
He was merely being petty.
How ironic that the little brother gets 4 battle themes AND a whopping 6 battles overall while the big sister only gets 1 battle theme and 4 battles.
@@Demonzelda42-Shady_Lusamine216 Well, it's not...really ironic at all. There's no irony at all....
It's disproportionate, I guess, but not "ironic".
Kieran went from shy kid to Xbox Live real quick.
Kieran: You stupid Ni-
XBOX LIIIIIIIVE!
Basically any toddler when you take the tablet (Ogerpon) away
Kieran would not fucking hesitate to call me a d*ke during this battle
Which era we talking?
Kieran has become one of my favorite characters in the Pokémon franchise in the span of a two-part DLC
Same here
And Carmine has become one of my most disliked characters in all of Pokemon for what she did to poor Kieran.
@@ShadowEclipex Criminal how the game has you befriend her while watching Kieran have a breakdown in real time in basically both DLCs.
I get its all about catching them all, but damn they really couldn't let him get Ogerpon?
Age?
@@darkuscarletPerhaps he will in Masters (assuming the SV player character doesn't when they get the eventual Kitakami alt)?
Personally, I feel like the end of the theme's really under appreciated. First of all, his theme keeps going even after his defeat. He's still in "battle mode" and is processing his loss just like any competitive player who trained hard and had the perfect plan and just stands there in shock when defeated. He only snaps out of it and breaks down after the audience starts looking down on him after him losing despite acting all high and mighty and hostile towards them before. The icing on the cake being Drayton's comment immediately afterwards.
I noticed that his battle is a complete 180 compared to nemona. When you do her battle it's in the middle of the city everyone crowds around and cheer for you both and when you win everyone including nemona is happy for you. Then you have Kieran when you battle him it's in the middle of the school everyone gathers around to see the battle but when you beat him not just Kieran but everyone around you is disappointed and just leaves the elite four are the only ones who congratulation you
The fact that the song ends not with Kieran's song ending on a triumphant note, but abruptly with the piano really sells it well for Kieran's arc - he was once again flying high before having the rug pulled out from under him by the player.
We absolutely broke Kieran to the point seeing Ogrepon triggers PTSD… feel bad for him somewhat.
@@IceBlueStarCatFurther proves that we broke him.
The light returns later@@IceBlueStarCat
I had ogerpon on my team. He wasn’t happy to see them
We can flex on him in more ways than one now
We broke him so badly that he gets a panic attack upon seeing another, different legendary about to imprint on us and immediately flings a master ball at it specifically to prevent that from happening again. At that point, i kind of just wanted to let him have Terrapagos just so that he could have one win that he could be proud of.
Genuinely wish there was some official artwork of champion kieran aside from the indigo disk key art
We will got later
Just wait till we get Masters EX models because I'm sure we'll get Indigo Kieran + Hydrapple, Briar + Terapagos, Drayton + Archualadon, Carmine + Sinischa, and Teal Kieran + Ogrepon (or Ogrepon will be an event pokemon for the MC to use like Sogaleo or Dialgia)
Half a year later, still waiting!
(isn't the art of the new thumbnail official?)
@@hunterstorys9330 No, this is from his concept art. I’m talking about an official render
I wasn’t the biggest fan of this theme when I did the battle, but afterwards when I watched other people’s videos on it, it was so good. And also Drayton saying “ex -champion” is the coldest thing I’ve ever heard.
9/10 battle, amazing
Drayton is right though, Kieran beating the league is one thing, but his intense drive to beat us made him forget why he loved battling so much
His transformation is an example of what happens when someone becomes too engrossed in competitive battling IRL, you stop enjoying the battles and only care for winning
Same here!
Drayton didn't hold back
To be fair, Drayton was trying, on his own way, to bring Kieran back to his senses. I love that he was misguided, because he's a human and can make mistakes.
once i saw kieran again in dlc2 threatening to expel a kid from a club for losing a battle i genuinely felt true hatred for him
to see the player character so happy to see him broke my heart, like you don’t know how much this boy wants you dead please stop trying to talk to him
i felt so happy beating him down, he nearly took out my whole team so i felt actually challenged, but holy shit it felt like i was avenging the people of bb academy in a way
and then to see that he hadn’t learned anything from that battle, after still holding a grudge against the player for taking ogerpon away from him, like lil bro you didn’t do anything to really help her, hell you STOLE the mask the player and carmine were going to give back to ogerpon, you intentionally avoided helping the player and carmine retrieve the other three masks, expected clearing ogerpon’s name in the village to be enough to win her over, and you still believe you’re entitled to her, bro why do you think she’s so afraid of you in the first place?
and then treating smol terapagos less like an actual pokemon and more like a tool for victory over one person who wanted nothing bad to happen to him, kieran wanted the player character dead, bless that poor kid’s heart they witness someone they thought was a kind soul with anger issues and saw as a friend throw them under the bus, blame them for everything wrong in their life and try to pretty much kill them and they still have it in their heart to forgive kieran and think he can change back to who he was before
i was seething after that whole event, but the player character still forgiving him warmed my heart somewhat
wow i just wrote an essay didn’t i? tl;dr i genuinely hated kieran in dlc2, dude brought his own downfall on himself and i’m shocked at how forgiving florian/juliana really are
Everyone’s talking about Incineroar and Grimmsnarl, but the worst things about his team is he ditched his Poliwrath for Politoed. Boxing almost every member of your old team is something, but replacing one of your members with the better version is a gut punch
He boxed his Shiftry, Yanmega, Probopass & Gliscor as well. Kieran is just trying to revamp his pokemon team so he can find and capture one of the strongest pokemon and train them real hard by battling trainers at the terrarium including the BB academy elite four to enhance his skills more on being able to beat the Main character as the BB academy champion.
@@zerius6743that’s another thing both dragonite and politoed is foreign to the academy
Yeah people rework their teams when they're losing a lot. Really nothing new.
Wait, Politoad is better than Poliwrath? How, exactly?
@@SabeNo-rh7mbdrizzle
Dude really brought out rain, screens, and hyper offense on ONE TEAM. Kieran was a defcon 1 level threat. Only had two of my Pokémon left when I beat him.
Same Wit Me , Mf Was Strong !
@@melvondrewhite2674Thank the lord for sp. def Skeledirge and SD Scizor at the end haha
My team somehow had all the tools to counter his team.
Rotom and Kroodile to shut sweepers down and stall screens, Ninetales to replace Rain with Snow.
With his team unable to hit hard, send the big ones Ursaluna and Beartic to sweep without restrain.
I was so terrified of his fight I got to lvl 90’s on the whole team, and I was justified in my fear. Ogrepon was the last one standing by the end, even then had to use a lot of healings items. Felt dirty when I had to revive Ogrepon by the end
@@TunaBear64huh never heard anyone use a Beatric before
Such an underwhelming bear when their so much better ones now
I knew Kieran wasnt playing around when Incineroar showed up, the literal best Pokemon in doubles format
The dude pulls out weather dynamics, the meta king of Doubles, and prankster screens because he is THAT determined to kick our asses. Proof that spite is a hell of a strong motivator.
He took a course from Smogon and learned everything about competitive battling with those pokemon
@@joshuakim5240Having seen all of that stuff before, it made the fight easy for me. There's no fear if you know what the enemy's gonna do! I was thinking maybe he would've learned what your starter was and would grab a counter depending on what it is, but nope.
@@excalibur493I bet a lot of the more casual players like shiny hunters and children are gonna have a ride of a time
Haha
HE BROUGHT FEAR
TRUE
FEAR
If there's anything Pokemon games have been getting right lately it's their characters, I really enjoyed Kieran's story throughout the DLC
The second thing would be the music.
@@FonVegen Those were always good tho
@@AllanGuiHaya70BDSP is right there
@@dr.tursko2312 I mean... it's almost the same as the original music, and that one was good so...
Yeah, after the disaster that was gen 8 (and perhaps Gen 6 since pretty much every character was bad there), they've really stepped up the characters big time. The gameplay may have suffered but the story, characters, and music, all seem to have gotten priority at this point.
Final Battle! Kieran 0:03 to 0:06
Kieran and Carmine (a melody the two share in their battle themes) 0:07 to 0:20
Champion Kieran (also used in Battle! Kieran & Terapegos) 0:20 to 0:32
Kieran & Carmine 0:32 to 0:45
Kieran's theme 0:59 to 1:25
Final Battle! Kieran 1:37 to 1:44
And the occasional spattering of the first four notes of Death By Glamour, to let you know Toby Fox composed this.
The “shy kid turned badass style” theme. First Wally, now Kieran. I love it when pokemon goes hard with the music.
Hey at least Wally didn’t go apeshit and ruin himself while training.
Do you think that just like Cynthia's piano, kids who played Indigo Disk with no knowledge of competitive will someday get PTSD whenever they hear a violin?
Not really my younger cousin steam rolled him with out following regulation rules
Like 2 of the same species
No ev / iv training
Restricted mons
Yeah I wished to see how he handles it with restraints
Oh absolutely.
this time it'll be either the intro sound or the electric guitars
I have no PTSD of Volo, because a psychopath does not fear *death.*
tbh idk why people are struggle on cynthia , i play through gen 4 like it's just any normal play throught ( without losing a battle ONCE) and im 9 back then
After all the nice, friendly competition rivals, it's refreshing to have one who truly wants to crush you.
I like that Kieran got so angry at you that he somewhat forgot why he wanted to destroy you. So much so in fact that he instead of seeing ogerpon as a friend, he saw him as a taunt and AI-wise literally targets it.
Yep. He was just obsessed with surpassing you, that he forgot why he's doing it in the first place.
The rain he sets up in the beginning is super thematic and this music feels like a fight to the death without any weapon, trading blow for blow until one of you collapses. This fight was HARD for me and I appreciate it.
I took advantage of the opportunity for Tokyo my Archaludon to spam Electro Shot
I had a team that had five level 100's and one that was in its mid 90's and he still gave me trouble, and my team was pretty good as well.
Dragonite having Hurricane and Thunder which can't miss in the rain too
The politoed dragonite combo definitely made me sweat lmao
@@Sparta05-f4mhow I had like level 80 shit and I forgor to hyper train some necessary stats like damn did you not ev train give optimal nature or give a decent item to your mons
I dont not care what anyone says, kieran is amazing, he is awesome, his theme is awesome, his fight made me struggle alot, he uses held items, he got character development both ways, very loveable, plus in the epilogue he backs you up against everyone
To me, he's definitely one of the best. Though I don't find him as sympathetic as fans made him out to be given the stuff and choices he made, regardless of what his sister did (unintentionally).
fairy girl was harder then him (to me at least)
Amarys (steel type elite 4) was the hardest for me personally.
@@elizabethspiker3659 Crispin was the hardest one for me. I've fought him four times, and I've only beaten him twice. Swampert will be your best friend against him because of his Ground secondary type.
Now.. now hear me out.
Maybe he's not the best rival ever.. I think N will remain permanently on the podium.. but Kieran is easily right after him.
His battle theme is fantastic, and in my opinion, this is the best track in the entire second DLC.
Definitely 2nd best rival, the dlc would’ve sucked without him
To me, Kieran is part of my Top 5, maybe 3 rivals of this franchise.
N Is Not The Best .. In Fact He’s Not Even Close . 😂
Silver is the best N is just plain annoying
N isn't a rival. He's an evil team leader.
I love how it starts where it left off with the previous battle theme
The arc of Kieran was such a good opposition of hops where the two take them learning they ain’t the main character where one accepts and goes in a new path while the other denies it and goes mad
Hop doesn’t think he’s the main character but he does feel like he’s in his brother’s shadow and his arc is about accepting that he doesn’t have to be like his brother. Kieran on the other hand is in fact that jerk rival that apparently everyone wants.
@@elizabethkblanco4620 Jerk/antagonistic rivals are fun. Before Kieran, the last rival who left a huge impression on me was N in BW
Kieran is one of the most human characters in all of the Pokemon main games.
i disliked this comment btw
just wanted you to know
@@claira4148 wow cool
I liked your comment btw
@@claira4148 top 10 people who asked.
Thanks for watching
I didn’t think about it at the time, but Incineroar being on his team is so fitting. Kieran pulled the biggest heel turn, and part of his team reflects that.
I'm gonna say it, Gen 9 is my favorite generation. I understand the lag and such, but even then I still had fun. Honestly, the stories told genuinely made me feel very attached to the characters. And I can't think of a single character that I disliked. And it provides challenge that newer games lacked. But the DLC is what really sold it to me. And Kieran is definitely my one of my favorite characters. And his theme is fire!
I'm gonna say it, Gen 5 may not be (disputed) No.1 for long if GF carries this momentum into Gen 10
gen 10 better have multiple stories
If they cooked more with the graphics then S/V would've EASILY been one of my top 5 games of all time
BUT it's still in my top 15 :}
It IS my top 5
I'm really more impressed with storytelling and characters compared to graphics quality and I guess I was lucky cause I never got lag so those combined with the fact I never played a Pokémon game before this makes it special to me at least
The technical issues are pretty much the only things that really pulled S/V down, but outside of that you could really feel how much love was poured into the games. The story and characters were nothing less than topnotch while the OST is simply on a different level from the past installments in the series.
"You got some nerve...you bring out the O G R E now of all times?!"
the fact that Kieran uses MY ACE made this fight really more personal and intense than it should've been
Grimmsnarl was one of my favorite Pokemon to use in Gen 8, so seeing him have one told me "oh he knows that mon is strong in Doubles"
Bro wasn't playing around
Ur not a Pokémon character lol
@@Bjix he isn't but they're saying it's probably one of their favorites and uses it basically
@@TarosTheVoidYhyh I figured, it’s just I’ve never heard anyone refer to their own favourite Pokemon as their ace so I found it funny (because usually it’s used to describe the signature Pokemon of a character like Cynthia and her garchomp)
I sent out Hydrapple first
He sent out Hydrapple last
the image pokeli used for Kieran makes it look like he's just patiently waiting for u to take the apple he's offering u lol
This comment made me giggle
If it was green he would be giving us dis pear
This gets better when you release he CAN give you an apple after you completed the epilogue (it's an applin but y'know...)
Lmfao
He trades you an Applin, and you guys know what giving someone an Applin means
Kieran's story arc made me actually feel bad for having the main character "plot armor" of being unbeatable and having every legendary "love me". Its the first time i actually was like "screw completing the pokedex, let the poor kid have his beloved pokemon"
I was never planning on using Orgerpon in my party and I actually feel bad for boxing her. Kieran would give her so much more love.
I also love how it used that same "main character syndrome" to ultimately negatively effect a character. Sure it made Kieran push himself to get stronger, but not in a healthy way. I legit was uncomfortable through the first DLC cuz i actually felt i was creating a villain. It actually made me want to throw a fight even tho i knew the stroy wouldnt progress unless i won.
Im glad it actually humanized pokemon a bit.
Feels like a lot of fans felt bad for Kieran so much that they forget that the MC earned their victories and love from everyone as well as the fact that Kieran didn't really deserve Ogerpon given how he reacted in Teal Mask. Assuming the MC treated him as an outcast, never giving the MC a chance to explain themselves after his sister told them to lie and more importantly, refused Ogerpon's wishes because he was just jealous. And yeah, he cared about her more but it's not about him and HE KNOWS what he did was wrong.
If the MC did create a villain, it was purely accidental and unintentional. It's not their fault Kieran snapped and became a jerk wad and having Kieran win or have Ogerpon wouldn't work at all. That's why he knew and accepted that MC was more capable of caring and raising even if we prefer her to be with the boy.
@dnmstarsi I first want to mention that i havent gotten far into Teal Mask. I know very genericly what happens with Keiran, but i have experienced it yet, so most of my reaction is from the first DLC.
I get that Keiran didn't earn that respect of Ogerpon because of his weak will and how he snapped. The game kinda forces you into not telling him about Ogerpon in the first place, which in turn forced you into betraying his trust and friendship. Logically i know it wasn't the MCs fault in the end and, yes the MC does work hard.
The first dlc is just the first time it ever made me feel frustrated by my lack of choice..... Yeah, the MC isn't actually a villian, i know that. However, to me the dlc set it up so you can FEEL like you are the in the wrong (even though you arent), it actually makes you self-conscious of your strength. The MC isnt in the wrong, but that doesnt mean that strength will always be recieved with a good natured reactions. It gave another humanizing dimension to the pokemon games by showing you Keiran's veiw point, which I appreciated.
There is a little more to it as well, but i dont want to write an essay, and some of it is hard for me to put into writing. It was just really different from what they've done in the past with the normal pokemon games and i really liked it ^_^
I had the the experience but with Terapagos. I wanted to give it to him so bad since I was just going to box it.
@@EoghanDonnelly-m3xthe first time i defeated Terapagos I actually chose the “don’t catch” option. Kieran tells me I have to be the one to catch it and it just opens my pokeball bag anyway.
@Hyper_Drud yeah I did the same.
Kieran’s Porygon-Z reflects his mental state. He’s evolved but at the cost of his mental health
The Life Orb Hyper Beams really help with that comparison.
Stronger but mentally unstable with life orb its like the state of his health is slowing becoming more broke and also especially with politoad representing his depression and his obsession with getting stronger that’s Kieran mental health concluded.
He's tweaking lol
@@Mr-Trox he hits like a truck but takes damage while doing it
This song sparked a joy while fighting him. I cant explain it well, but the battle was very fun
Definitely goes a lot harder than his past themes. It’s all about beating the player now.
Looking back at this though, the sounds do make me feel something. Kieran later says he messed up, that he looked up at us and wanted to be like us for so long. But here, he wasn’t like the player. He did become the strongest at Blueberry Academy, but in doing so he forget something while attempting to conquer over everything. The power went to his head and he might’ve forgotten why he wanted to even be strong in the first place. It only led to thoughts of ‘beating MC beating MC beating MC’ repeatedly. And in his past soundtracks there was a more ‘enjoyable’ sound. Like he was enjoying the battles. But here, it’s like Kieran is fighting the battle for life and death. He NEEDS to win.
(I am way too happy this was uploaded lol)
Exactly. He lost sight of not only of what makes pokemon battles fun, he lost himself in the process.
My theory on why each pokemon is picked for Kieran here:
*Politoad
-Instead of Poliwrath, he now has Politoad, maybe to signify instead of just being angry, he has a clear goal to beat you
*Dragonite
-Is said to rescue drowning people and Dragonite could metaphorically be saving him from drowning in madness by beating you
*Porygon-Z
- It's stated in Pokedex multiple times it was upgraded to be stronger, but then started behaving oddly, literally Kieran's training
*Inceninroar
- It is said it gets motivated with stronger trainer, and Florian/Juliana motivated Kieran to the max
*Grimsnarl
- Kind of relates to a Ogre, like Ogrepon bit Grimsnarl is literally a dark type Ogre
*Hydrapple
- Literally reflects Kieran, starts out a shy and non-threatning to a ferocious dragon. Its Tera Fighting signifies how badly he wants to beat us
Dragonite:
-Is competitively viable
Porygon Z:
-Is competitively viable
Incineroar:
Shit he's out for blood
-Is competitively viable
Grimmsnarl:
He saw that competitive winner and his shiny grimmsnarl
-Is competitively viable
Politoed:
-Is competitively viable
Hydrapple:
Gamefreak need to give him an ace
@@AlvinIsReallyCool this too LOL
@@AlvinIsReallyCoolYou say that like Hydrapple isn’t good lol. An 80 BP move that has a 30% chance to become a 160 BP move with no drawbacks. 110 Defense and 120 Spef with assault vest
@@AlvinIsReallyCoolHydrapple is actually really good
@@flopps1051He also has really solid coverage with earth power and hydro pump
When I heard Kieran’s first battle theme, I thought it sounded incomplete, like it was going to build up to be a more intense song later on. His second battle theme had more to it, but still didn’t feel quite right, like there was something still missing from it. Now THIS… This finally feels right.
I can’t help but feel sad when listening it though because I can just feel his stress and pain in the instrument choices and how the music is played. KIERAN MY BOI 😭
Kieran has become one of my favorite Pokemon rivals. Really wish we didn't have to lie to him in The Teal Mask.
I literally was saying at the screen, “why are you forcing me to lie? Just let me explain that the grandpa doesn’t want me to say anything about what we talked about and to take it up with him.”
"Wowzers!" -Kitikami Kieran
"Wowzers..." -Blueberry Kieran
mans catchphrase went from “wowzers!” To “YOU SHOULD K*LL Y-“
The second we see him after the Carmine fight he becomes LTG
Some things never change
Wow, Ex-champion Kieran's theme is actually pretty good.
Ain't no way you did him like that
*Too bad for our Ex-Champion, Kiki.*
😂😂😂
Drayton Is that you?
This comment is so Draysterpilled
@@corcortinez5361Kiki do you love me? Are we riding?
I’d say Kieran is one of the most well written pokémon rivals. if not a pokémon character in general! i hope game freak continues on the path it going. it gives me a sense of hope
I just don't like how he just MAGICALLY gets over everything and goes right back to being our friend the minute he loses Terapagos. It just comes off as forced. But because Game Freak is all about friendship and stuff.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Well no, Kieran actually makes more sense by letting you catch Terapagos at the end.
You can see in his Championship battle when he says "I know that what I'm doing is right, and soon you will too" that he's trying to reassure himself that what he's doing is good, because deep down he knows he's wrong, that he causing more problems for himself than he otherwise would have.
When letting you catch Terapagos, he's realizing that he only ever wanted Terapagos to beat YOU, something he realizes will never happen.
Kieran sobers up when watching you fight Terapagos and finally becomes disillusioned to what he's been telling himself.
He wanted so bad to be like you, and then you took everything from him. He trains specifically to defeat you, and yet wants nothing to do with you. He is both wanting to be you, and to destroy you. He's contradicting himself, hance why he need to keep telling himself that his motives are pure.
By the time you fight Kieran at blueberry academy, he's trained to be a strong as you, to be like you, but in the process pushed everyone away from him and lost the spark that lets him ENJOY battling. And it's those bonds with others, and love for Pokemon, that Kieran TRULY wanted to emulate, so in pushing that away he stomped his own dream, and that's what he finds in Area Zero, that's HIS Hidden Treasure.
He wants to be friends again because that's all he ever wanted from the start, and he now realizes that nothing is stopping him from doing that except himself, which is the exact same as how the Teal mask starts, when he wants to talk to you but is too shy to do so.
@@autistic_potato1037 Which bums me out because we're likely never gonna see a rival like him again. The next gen is likely just gonna focus on another Hau/Hop clone. Kieran *Defied* the formula and gave it the best middle finger a rival character could give it. Some may not agree, but I respected the hell out of him catching Terapagos with a Master Ball. The dude trained himself to become stronger than most champions. If he kept on training, if we had arrived at BB much later than intended, he could've even reached level 90 if not 100. It just seems like a waste of potential.
We see so many friendly rivals that when we finally got to Bede, it was a breath of fresh air. And when I finally met Kieran and saw what he became, *it was like waking up from a cold sleep.* Finally, I had a rival who wasn't hyping me up and being my yes-man. Finally, I had someone who wasn't just going to tolerate me being given all the accolades of the land for almost nothing at all. Finally, I had a man who well and truly wanted to kill me. *Finally, I had a true rival.*
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Well, Gamefreak did confirm that the DLC was going to get free part 3 as an epilogue in January so that's cool.
Also can we acknowledge that the "Hidden Treasure Of Area Zero" is objectively the greatest pokemon game
It's the only game that truly forces you to train pokemon, to catch pokemon, and to be the best.
You need new pokemon because (odds are) your base game team isn't going to cut it, and if you play the indigo disk using only indigo disk pokemon (+ogrepon) it's INCREDIBLY hard, I got swept by the first trainer and his solo level 60 scyther. It's the only time in all of pokemon where I had any incentive to switch out pokemon on my team, I've played every game with just my starter, adding a new pokemon to my team every now and then, and never taking someone out of the party once they were in, and it made the game more cinematic and immersive. But this game made min maxing feel immersive for me, I ended with a new box dedicated to party members, I even had to resort to using party members from my original A-Team and still BARELY beat Kieran, if his Porygon lived on even just 1hp, my starter would've been outsped and ohko'ed by Hyperbeam the next turn (I don't use healing items since trainers don't either in Gen 9) and the first time I took my starter of my team for any reason. And I loved every second of it.
My used team members at the end: Meowscarada, Armorouge, Clodsire, Ogrepon, Archaludon, Hydrapple, BM-Ursaluna, Tinkaton, Dewgong, Excadrill, Malamar, ✨Vikavolt, Bacscalibur, ✨Whimsicott, and Ghouldengo.
Usually, I don't use more than 4 pokemon total across a whole playthrough.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Well we'll also see Kieran again in MastersEX once they add either an Ogrepon or Terapagos storyline next year
I really hope he gets put in the new anime because he'd be such a good antihero for a season 2
This theme and the battle with Penny are the true hidden treasure of Area Zero. This is fire!
My reaction to hearing this theme were along the lines of “WHAT DID WE DO TO THIS BOY!? 😭”
This is just the perfect battle theme all around, i can’t believe the amount of times I’ve replayed this
Im so glad kierans story was handled gracefully from start to finish
Truth be told, ive been where he was before, and it fucking sucks
That feeling that nothing you do is good enough
That feeling that someone, or even everyone, is getting something you want, or even feel you deserve
And that desire to be better than other people, for the simple reason of just being better than them
Its an unexpectedly short road for those who walk it, because it either ends in retrospectively obvious failure, or a short sighted victory that leaves you with nothing else afterwards
If anyone stands where kierans stood, just remember
Youre not the worst at what you do, there will always be people youre better than
But if you want your victory against that one person to really mean something, get that victory your own particular way
A victory with a random landerous will never feel as sweet as a victory with your furret, brought all the way from gold and silver
Be proud of what you can already accomplish, and keep learning humbly to accomplish even more
Youd be surprised how much you outpace your original nemesis from that alone
Yeah that's true.
Falou bonito 👏👏👏
Furret walkin
Me and my creating a Furret evo
That is a Legendary Pokemon xzd
Goated comment
Kieran's character is genuinely the saddest I've ever felt winning against. As the MC, you're handed everything whilst he rots away, seeing everything he's worked up to flutter away for NOTHING.
Drayton chastising mans was 100% foul.
Yeah. I get he was probably a dick to Drayton, but come on... the dude just fell to his knees holding his head. He's clearly not ok. Not the time to gloat, especially over a victory that wasn't even yours.
Keiran for most of this episode is the 12 year old toxic COD player who is actually good.
Then when you kick his a$$, Drayton is the dude who gives him the teabag in the killcam for the assist
The only time I felt bad about winning were this and wally in oras
@@ThePlumGeneral44 Hop in the League battle is the same too, to be honest.
@@wikiuser92 I celebrated when I beat him lmao, I genuinely hate hop 💀
The singular best theme in the finite history of Pokémon has prophesied me to name my firstborn son Kieran
Thats so awesome
Ahh I loved everything about Kieran. Such a relatable character. Hope there’s more in this arc for him. He deserves so much more!!
Salute to all the people who missed out on the opportunity of taking a picture with Kieran after beating him
What happens if you do?
Is there bonus dialogue?
Thought most people here did the exact same thing, haha.
oh i took a picture but i completely forgot about league cards at the time and i wish i made it my profile photo
To all curious. There is no bonus dialogue.
Kieran just stands there deflated with a distraught expression, they're saying you should take a picture of him in that position because 1. It's the only chance you'll ever get in the entire game and 2. It's hilarious taking a picture of your rival after decimating their team
Seeing his evolution from a shy kind boy to only wanting nothing more than to crush us in battle was insane. You could just see in his eyes how obsessed he was with the idea. I felt awful for him. Gotta say, Kieran is a well written character and I hope we see more similar to this. We made a kind rival become a mean one.
There are few greater hits in the feels than those intense building strings being shattered with those guitar riffs at 0:20, it speaks to one feeling: Kieran is not messing around! This theme sounds like something you'd hear from a 'mean rival' and I love it so much, it's a perfect representation of the apathy Kieran feels when battling. I really love how this theme barely resembles the others say for a couple of motifs, like there remain few traces of the Kieran we once knew.
Kieran is by far my favourite character in the DLC and might be one of my favourite in the franchise. I really thought I wouldn't care for him since we'd seen weak guy needs to learn to be strong too many times. But I love how they've reframed it this time around, taking advantage of Paldea's theme of everyone being the hero of their own story. I mean seriously this guy was so distraught by the events of Teal Mask he threw away the entirety of his old team except Dipplin, trained up a new competitively viable one, went back to school and became champion, defeating even the children of gym leaders. And try as he might, he still loses to us after all that effort (someone should have told him we already became champion of our region and he shouldn't feel so bad about losing to us).
His team is a god damn menace and it is such a refreshing challenge. He really takes advantage of the double battle format, utilising abilities and moves to debilitate your team and buff his own. If you don't go in with a strategy it'll be hard to keep up and all it takes is one crit (as I found out the hard way) for him to steam roll through your team. Incineroar especially is a god damn issue, my god that thing after Grimmsnarl's reflect genuinely gives me a headache. I'm someone who doesn't necessarily agree with the sentiment that Pokemon games as a whole need to be harder and the reason is that they can take opportunities like this to give as interesting challenges that leave a memorable impression. I think this is probably my favourite fight in all of gen 9.
TLDR: best theme + best character in the DLC and best fight in SV!
The minute I saw Incineroar with Intimidate and Fake Out in doubles format, I knew this kid was out for blood
for me it was when his Porygon Z oneshotted one of my mons with hyperbeam and then I saw it was holding a LIFE ORB.
HIS CONCEPT ART THUMBNAIL UPDATE WOOHOOO!!!
Love how the start is the end of his previous theme, then the guitar kicks in which is very different to his last themes which tells you this is a different Kieran, even the sparkle in his eyes has gone until the fight vs terapagos when he helps you take it down
maybe an unpopular opinion but if Kieran had existed a few years ago he'd have the same fame as Cynthia. everyone would make the same "pokemon fans when they hear a piano" jokes except it would be with violins and guitars. The only reason why they don't is because most of the fandom are grown people that know the game a lot better than the intended demographic now
bro should've just used friendship points; would've gotten him farther. I mean my walking wake is pretty terrifying when it survives on 1 hp for like 4 turns in a row because i fed it some sandwiches while shiny hunting, and then it crits 'wishing to be praised'. And not to mention my toxic stalling vaporeon in Ultra Sun that lived for ages on 1 hp as Ultra Necrozma slowly perished inch by inch.
no joke, it would be really interesting to see a trainer utilize this against you.
@@ogerponreject THAT'D BE SO SCARY but I can kinda see why they wouldn't incorporate that lol specially for THIS Kieran battle. At this point dude didn't seem too big on friendship
@@ogerponreject that sounds like such a cool battle, i really wish pokemon would do this for even one of their battles
Nah fam! I am one of the Kieran fans I mean kinnies here! He is really beloved!
@@Baka_Crazy oh I'm not saying he isn't beloved, I'm saying that if he was a character a few years ago say, platinum era he'd have the same fame of being a "dream crusher" like cynthia
Best rival in years. The music slaps too.
Kieran went from “Aww man, I suck.” To “Come to Birmingham yeah and I’ll f*ck you up!”
Never really LISTENED to it before and never realized how erratic this theme is, it really takes desperation and runs with it. I like how it actually ascends and descends and picks up again, etc. AND THAT STRAINED SCREECH OF THE INSTRUMENTALS AT THE BEGINNING? Imaculate
It’s always Pokémon with me. I always come back to this franchise somehow and I love it so much.
Kieran turned into a different beast in Indigo Disk. He climbed to the top of his school purely out of the everpowerful feeling that is spite. With a whole new team too. I like to imagine once he got back to Blueberry, he released his entire team to get stronger mons. I mean you cannot tell me he didn't throw away his Poliwrath thinking about Politoed's superiority. The only reason he kept Dipplin is because of it's potential. Kieran's current team is nothing but powerful threats that will crush anyone who challenges him because that was all that mattered to him at that point. Kinda reminds me of Paul from the anime, and I do like me some Paul.
Fortunately, a conversation he has after Indigo Disk's story reveals he still has his old pokemon. One of the group conversations with in the league club room with trainers you can invite over from Paldea. Can't remember which one right now.
I wouldn't say he released his old team. Nah, he likely has them in storage.
@@smashmaster521 yeah he has his poliwrath as of mochi mayhem
0:20 that guitar part tho SHOULD NOT GO THIS HARD 🤯🎸
I know
This kinda reminds me of the trans Siberian orchestra
I really love what they did with Kieran’s character.
They took the same idea they had with Hop, showing us how a different character is affected by the player character wining as always, but instead of a happy ending we were shown just how tragic it can turn out. Though very disappointed, Hop was able to be happy for his friend and found something else to work for, ultimately being able to move on. But Kieran wasn’t mature enough to handle it, and he spiraled. His story has a happy ending of course, but it’s still definitely the darker one between the two.
I love this idea, and I’m glad they decided to explore it more thoroughly. After part one of the dlc I simply liked Kieran, but after this my opinion on him skyrocketed. I really like him! Carmine is my favorite, but I adore both of them 💜🖤🧡
Finally a Carmine fan that doesn’t find Kieran “annoying”. I have so much respect for you.
@@kieranpleaseforgiveme haha thank you! I think they’re great characters, I don’t get why their respective fans usually hate the other, they’re both awesome!
@@lem0nbell I think it’s because of how they both don’t have the healthiest relationship, and the fans pick sides. But they both really do care for eachother, so there’s really no point..
@@kieranpleaseforgiveme True, I hope the expansion gives us a little more of them. Maybe if it shows them actually getting along, their fans will too
@@lem0nbell I agree!!
I love how the BB League Elite 4 use starters that fit them thematically(Lacey with Primarina, Crispin with Blaziken, etc.), and which one does Kieran use? The HEEL Pokémon! Such a great choice!
I like how the music almost changes completely except for some parts almost like he is somewhat the same person from before
Enjoy to the fullest!🎵🎨
Sorry for the delay!
Can we get a.z underdepths?
Thank you for adding the outro, I was concerned that you'd miss including it like you missed making Team Star Boss music loop at least once.
It's as beautiful as the day we last heard the ost.
Xd
May I ask something, @Pokeli? Of the Indigo Disk Musics, which one did you enjoy the most?
Kieran's character arc is one of the best in the entire series. He goes from an extremely timid boy who looked up to you to an egotistical monster obsessed with gaining as much strength as possible just to defeat you, all because you took a Pokemon away from him that he loved when everyone else treated Ogerpon like a villain. Kieran is fighting for validation for being cast aside and revenge for you taking what he loved. You are fighting the monster you indirectly created to get your friend back.
More than that; before meeting the player, Kieran wasn't exactly doing good (just look at how the relationship between him and Carmine was). The protagonist, of course, thanks to their plot armor and main characterization, gets all the attention. Can't blame Kieran tho, the player was the protagonist in a history he thought it was HIS, he thought everyone (including the player) was casting him aside since he saw himself as weak an useless. He became obsessed with the idea of power and it started eating him alive
“They couldn’t possibly top Kieran’s final battle theme in Teal Mask, there’s no wa-“
Gamefreak’s drums and guitar department: *allow us to introduce ourselves*
i think i can summarize my thoughts on this theme by saying it's desperately violent and violently desperate, both apply. there a ton of discordant notes, parts that don't go together are stitched like a frankenstein's monster and it really does show how he has broken himself to try and beat the protagonist. it's said multiple times during the story that his behaviour is self destructive, after all.
starting off with a discordant piano riff that reminds me a lot of lusamine's, then a calm and tense part and then the strongest guitar riff in a pokemon theme yet. to me it really does feel like raging insanity. the feeling that something is wrong, the calm before the storm and then a snap.
like even his signature violin (viola here maybe?) solo feels wrong, it goes on more than it should and it gets slightly discordant too.
so i can confidently say that this theme is the angriest one in pokemon yet and goes head to head with lusamine's for its insanity!
Something interesting to note after i checked kieran team, in particular his lead, Drizletoad with dnite, its that its built on the idea that you will be a heartless bastard to lead with ogrepon and inmediately punish you for it, Dnite has Hurricane, which is super effective against 3 of the 4 ogrepon forms, if you tera, if you went with teal mask, hurricane will punish you, if you use water mask, dnite also carries thunder, if you go with fire mask and tera, drizzle will lower your fire moves power so that even a crit wont bypass dnite multiscale not to mention weather ball countering both fire and rock masks, its really interesting, and then if you couple incineroar role, with intimidate furhter lowering ogrepon damage output, it really does well on telling just how much significance kitakami dlc had on him
In addition to what you said about punishing Ogerpon leads, I also found it interesting how Kieran is using a (mostly) special attacking Dragonite set with hurricane and thunder. From my limited knowledge and understanding of competitive Pokémon, I believe special attacking variants of Dragonite are quite rare and are meant to specifically lure in bulky physical walls so Dragonite can snipe their weaker special defenses. And of course you have breaking swipe for spread damage control and extreme speed to pick off weakened Pokémon (Not to mention intimidate Incineroar which is literally the best VGC Pokémon and a pranster Grimmsnarl for support as teammates in the back). All very interesting strategies from Kieran indeed lol
Non tera fire ogerpon is still very good into this fight as a lead to bait hurricane to swap into something resisting it or follow me + horn leech
I just want to point out something. Kieran had Dipplin and used that Dipplin as his ace during his Ranked Battles up until he defeated Drayton for the title of Champion. Because Drayton is the only person with access to the TM “Dragon Cheer” that you get for defeating him. Drayton gave Kieran the move needed to finally evolve Dipplin into Hydrapple.
We’ve seen rivals go for jerks to friends, but Kieran went from a friend to a jerk. His family and his one friend lied to his face, his sister and one friend stopped hanging out with him, and then ogerpon chose the player over him. He felt betrayed and became obsessed with getting stronger out of resentment for the player, and I find that so compelling
Kieran has to be, from so many years one of the best written characters in a while. He started admiring the player and trying to emulate it. Then you accomplish all things he wanted to do. Sadly, we crushed his dreams, even catching Ogerpon in the process. He gets so devastated that he became obsessive, wanting to destroy everything we love.
Good or bad motivation regardless, he became the champion of Blueberry academy with it's only goal to beat us. In my playthrough, when I challenged him, the battle was really close. His Hydrapple was the only thing left in the field. I felt proud of Kieran. He beated me fair and square.
He has to be one of my favourite rivals. I wish Pokemon could write more characters like him.
man's flat-out got BAGS under his eyes when he didn't before
Carmine specifically said that Kieran sacrificed sleep to train
Kieran was killing sleep just to train, it makes sense he'd have eyebags, plus they're cool af
I've seen people obliterate this kid with lvl 100 EV/IV trained legendaries and stuff, and then take a selfie with him as he's having a whole mental breakdown on the floor.
Not to say he didn't have it coming, but I genuinely feel kinda sorry for how much he's getting bullied and clowned on rn. Poor dude :(
I hate the same thing too!!!
It's weird. His team, competitive and balance-wise is far stronger than the Elite Four members. And yet...... all of them gave me an a way harder time by comparison than Kieran himself. I knew they should have made him level 100, but Game Freak for some reason is just too scared to go that route. Him being level 100 with a team like this would have made him *THE* most infamous boss in the whole franchise. But if rumors are anything to go by, they're likely saving that for Cynthia in the remakes for Gen 5. Sucks.....
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Honestly, I feel like even lvl 90-95 at the very least would've sold it.
@@SabeNo-rh7mb Game Freak probably doesn't expect the player to swap around their team for each scenario, but that's one of the optimal strategies.
As for me, Kieran lived up to his hype in Indigo Disk...but he had the misfortune of fighting the team I used against Drayton, which included Gardevoir.
"You have the nerve to bring the ogre out, at NOW of all times?"
"Even the world favours you! It's just not fair! IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!"
Is this some kind of twisted JOKE?!
I love Kieran as a character, one of my favorites in years that theyve made. The way his team tells his story in different fights, how the music reflects him and the struggle at hand with him. They did amazing with him
Other champion themes: an imposing orchestra but triumphant sounding enough to encourage the player to push past their final challenge
Champion Kieran: *You’re eating the dirt and I will use any means necessary for that to happen*