Obsession & Toxic Ambition: Kieran's Turbulent Pokémon Journey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Kieran is a unique character in the Pokémon Scarlet and Violet DLC, with a unique story across The Teal Mask and The Indigo Disk (The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero). Let's discuss his journey.
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thank so much for covering Kieran!! its always nice to have people covering him fairly, without resorting to the "he's a spoiled brat" card and move on. I relate to Kieran alot and I'm very familiar with the things he's going through. its not easy. he grows in the end for the better and I honestly wish more people got that take away.
It's pretty dumb that people assume that he's some spoiled child who needs to be put in his place without realizing how unique Kieran is as a character growing throughout the DLC.
Kieran fans UNITE
the cutscene after Kieran loses his Student Champion role hits super hard in my opinion, and reminds me of how panic attacks or mental breakdowns can feel. The blurring as all of the voices start to fade together (or maybe that of tears blocking one’s vision) the panicked breaths in form of pulses of the screen, the desire to GET OUT as soon as possible, but no matter how hard you try, your knees buckle in place.. none of the elite four or whatever they are help him AT ALL, not even the kindest ones. If Kieran heard what Drayden said over all of the combined noise, the teasing and bullying despite him obviously being in a situation worse for wear..
The crowd possibly celebrating the protags victory via cheering and laughing could start feeling like taunting. “They’re laughing at me, aren’t they..? Where are they all going? Why can’t I move? Why is it so hard to see?” The desire to GET OUT of the situation is strong, the whole cutscene feels uneasy with the way Kieran buckles down, the screen effects, how he holds onto his head or blocks his ears, and how they ANIMATED his breaths and eye movements. He’s practically hyperventilating over there.
I have bad anxiety, by the way, and have had panic attacks similar to this before. Not that recently, though, but I do remember them..
it just feels.. wrong. No one comes to his aid, no one bats an eye other than believing it to be ‘childish behavior’ or a tantrum. Not even his own SISTER, (who is a jerk but felt bad enough for him to enlist the protags help), comes to his side.
The same protag who took EVERYTHING away from him and sided with the sister who kept ridiculing him. If that were me, I would get VIOLENT, then and there. Writing this has caused my chest to feel a bit empty, if that makes any sense, so I’ll leave it alone for now. The aftermath of this and how relatively easily Kieran gets back on his feet irks me, though. Thank you for reading this, I would summarize it, but I don’t know how. I also AGGRESSIVELY hyperfixate on things that I like, often changing bits of my personality or the way I carry myself subconsciously because of it, so I sort of relate to the toxic fixation shown with Kieran.
I'm 37 years old and even I had my Kieran moments in life. I related to him a ton.
Ppl don't see it now but Kieran is right up there with N and Blue as the greatest rivals in the franchise. He was really grounded and relatable.
I really like how Scarlet and Violet handled their characters compared to past games (cough cough Sworld/Shield). Kieran genuinely feels unique and memorable as a rival which we haven’t gotten a Rival like that since N.
I honestly agree
The parallel between Kieran's championship Battle and Nemona's is striking. Nemona's fight exudes a positive vibe - it feels joyful, and the sun shines as the battle continues, eventually reaching sunset. There's life, and yes, she does cry when you beat her, but she sheds tears of joy. People are still cheering in the background even though she lost.
Kieran's championship Battle at Blueberry takes place at night. The court has an artificial feel with no signs of life. Many people forget that he was a bully in the Indigo disc, and the game doesn't hide that fact. We see it firsthand, and even the Elite Four mention this. Carmine says, "If he still has a friend, I'm glad it's you." This shows he didn't realize he was burning his bridges with everyone. Everyone walks away after his battle; one NPCs even says he lost. Kieran brags that he is the strongest, like the end of one of those movies where the bully finally gets their just desserts. And when their friends hang out with him, they leave them because they thought he was strong, but he's not anymore.
Nemona comes across as a gifted kid who, despite her talents, is willing to help anyone, regardless of who they are. On the other hand, Kieran, in his joker moment, gives off the vibe of being a gifted kid who is simply rude, snaps at everyone, and refuses to help people. What type of kid says, 'I can get it, why can't you'? Which we actually see him do.
Anything with Ogerpon and Therapagos. Yes, I can see why Kieran would be upset. If you've been looking for a Pokémon for years, and somebody else shows up and shows interest in it with another trainer, I'd be jealous, too. But the lore of Ogerpon, you know she's afraid of the Village People. Kieran is part of the village, so he will constantly come to look for her. Before that, she was that scared of those people, and a villager is constantly coming to see you all the time, and I don't know what they're going to do to me. Then, yeah, I would be scared and can feel afraid. Also, he thinks the value of Pokémon comes from their strength, but that's not true. She and her old trainer were outsiders, so bonding with an outsider would make sense.
When he takes the teal mask, this action somewhat parallels Loyal 3 taking her other three masks. The player and Carmine go out of their way to retrieve all of them. Yes, he tells the townspeople they are wrong, but he fights her bullies and then returns the precious things to her. He had the option to come with us, but he didn't take that option, so he's not bonding with her and knowing who she is on him. There's a difference between admiring someone and getting to know the person physically; Kieran admired ogerpon he didn't know her.
Perhaps the argument of strength can also be applied in this case, but consider this: the Pokémon that just woke up seems to have the mentality of an infant. It doesn't seem to recognize anyone in the room. I believe the Pokémon has imprinted on the player. He still lost when he had a legendary in his hands, but he also caught that legendary when its back was turned.
@@madisonyomans9004 I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this out.
Loved this analysis! Kieran quickly became one of my absolute favourites in SV. His journey of growth across the two DLCs really made him such a memorable character, I would love to see more rivals take on a "villain arc" like he did in future titles. I'm glad he finally has some proper friends in Arven, Penny, and Nemona by the end, and that his fears of eternal isolation are gone for good. I think his story is one of learning self-worth; he doesn't need to be strong, or the hero, or the villain, to be someone people pay attention to - being Kieran is enough.
What a great analysis on Kieran’s character! I think it’s a great breakdown of what I believe are the ideals of being a Pokémon trainer. It’s not just about having the strongest Pokémon and being the one with the most raw power. It’s about personal growth and the bonds you make with your favourite Pokémon.
Thank you I’m being fed more Kieran content this is awesome
I LOVE KIERAN!!!!
@@Prauwlet213 I hope you have an amazing day
@@kieranpleaseforgiveme I hate the utter demonisation of Kieran to be honest because it kind of leans into ableism. Kieran is heavily implied to be autistic through his character. There are so many moments that can't be read other than him being autistic. And a lot of the 'he's a brat' or 'he's stupid' charges levied against him are often because of autistic traits. He's misunderstood and demonised by both characters in the game, and by the fanbase.
@@Prauwlet213 i have never agreed with something so much in my life They ignore everything around him and bash him instead. Even ingame he doesn’t get the proper help he needs. genuinely if someone in real life ever walks up to me and says they (even mildly) dislike kieran I would distance myself 20 feet away because I have lost all my trust whatsoever.
@@kieranpleaseforgiveme FR
I liked that you gave Kieran a good dive. To me, it shows that Game Freak does care about its characters and wants to give them growth. SV to me had some of the best characters without making them too convoluted while also giving us older players a reminder of common human flaws and their consequences.
this was a nice watch! i feel like i don't see many videos talking about the human characters of pokemon from an angle of analyzing their character arcs and the themes behind them, so it was a really nice surprise to see this in my recommended. kieran is probably one of my favorite rivals in the franchise in general writing wise, and seeing the first part of his arc in the teal mask then waiting for the indigo disk and seeing just how drastically he'd changed somehow made watching his arc play out a lot more interesting to me since it was released like that.
I'm glad that there's a lot more people realizing how unique Kieran is in the Scarlet and Violet DLC.
Kieran became my favorite character because he goes through a unique character arc to turn from a shy trainer to strong champion.
Kieran managed to prove to us and Carmine that he can be strong too. Plus he's the only rival who successfully caught a legendary without it just willingly joining him.
When I played through the Teal mask, seeing Kieran get upset about Ogerpon broke my heart, because without us there, Ogerpon might have elected to go with Kieran, possibly forming an outcasts stick together relationship with him. While the player is in no way responsible for Kieran's actions, we are, in a sense, responsible for what happens to Kieran. Kieran only grows more obsessed with Ogerpon because we (unwillingly or not) didn't tell him about finding it during the festival. Kieran goes on his whole tirade because we as the main character, obtain Ogerpon. Then, right when he (wrongfully) thinks he's at the top of his game and can't be stopped, we return, and in front of all the people at his school (some of which probably bullied him, if I'm reading into things correctly), destroy him with our team, sometimes with Ogerpon on our side just to rub salt in that wound even more. Kieran only latches onto Terapagos because he lost to us, and it was cool for me to see that the pokemon protagonist isn't always a perfect force of good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and poor Kieran walked the path we paved for him. That's why, when he finally faces Terapagos and is forced to acknowledge that power isn't everything, he does make the change. I hope we can see him in later games some point in the future, maybe as a champion or Elite Four member to demonstrate his growth.
exactly. Kieran deserved so much more than he got.
Thank you so much for making this analysis! Kieran is a really damn good character who like any human being has his own flaws, which tbh is what makes him very relatable to many of us. It always made me sad how people were quick to judge or villainize him when really these are normal human behaviors that can happen to any of us and hell we see how and why it happens to Kieran so idk it just baffled me seeing people react so poorly. If anything Kieran taught me for sure that people online really suck at reading comprehension lol.
Also something I always found strange in the BB dlc was that once you defeat him, yeah everyone leaves which easily could imply that they didnt care much for him except for his strength- but... no one even reacts to the fact that you won? Like you would think the other students would be impressed by the fact that this newbie exchange student that just arrived pretty much plowed through the E4 and bested Kieran who had also proven to be hella strong. Everyone just kinda gets up and leaves without even congratulating you, the new champion. (Not counting the club members for obvious reasons.) It just gave me weird vibes of the student body in general not really giving much of a crap about anything other than their classes or whatnot idk.
As a guy who’s never gotten the dlc before,I sympathise with Kieran HEAVY,he really seemed like a younger me,desperate to become better than someone who’s just out of reach,and then blowing yourself up when you fail to do the impossible
If it was me,I’d have given him ogerpon, I’m strong enough,I don’t need that legendary as much as he did,I’m sure he would’ve taken care of ogerpon much better than I have…
I understand that sympathy, however, the reason why that would be the wrong choice is because Ogrepon did not want to go with Kieran and had chosen you. So if you decided to give her to Kieran you would Actually be taking the least empathetic and more cruel option.
btw I know you said you haven't played the DLC so don't take that as me insulting or criticising you. I just thought I'd fill you in on more of the story so you had a better picture of it.
Kieran was honestly such a shockly good character. I've been playing Pokemon since Red and Blue and I frankly think that his arc was the most invested I've ever been in a character from the series. Silver, Hugh and Hop also get a shout outs for having good arcs but Kieran surpasses them for me by having a compelling reason to be a rival.
If we ever go back to that region and see the rest of it, I hope we see him again.
Thank you so much for making this video! It was very well constructed. I refused to play SV on launch because of their technical issues, but when I heard about Kieran's arc for the first time a few weeks ago I was hooked. I see a lot of myself in Kieran and it is so refrshing to have a Pokemon character who is flawed in a relatable manner. It sounds like the dlc has some of the best writing we've seen from Pokemon in years, probably since BW. I'm really excited to play Scarlet now and experience the story firsthand! I talked my sister into playing it alongside me and she's going in completely blind. She's in for a treat! 😄
Poor Kieran. He just needs therapy
4:18
honestly, what's more likely is that he feels betrayed by us and he believes that we lied to him and took advantage of him because of his weakness, and he thinks he'll only get respect through stregnth, and can you blame him? He's been pushed around by those stronger than him his whole life, after all, and his first ever friend lied to him about the thing he cared about the most.
Kieren would love the hell out of Marshadow
They are literally the same 👀
5:54 this is why I feel for Kieran the most. There is no way of reading this scene other than an autistic person having a mental breakdown. As an autistic person, I know. They feel terrible, like the world is collapsing. Then for Drayton to come in and harrass him during a mental breakdown, it makes it even worse. I've been bullied during a mental breakdown, and I did not recover for a long, long while. Drayton is insensitive and honestly, sadistic here, and only serves to make Kieran's self hatred and mental state worse.
kieran's my favorite character,it's carmine that I hate,she think we're friends,we're not friends carmine,we're enemies,you can make other fans belive your their friend,but with me? nah we're enemies after you made kieran hate me >:l
I'm not in the mood for your fucking shit youtube
I never liked Carmine either because of her rude attitude and I seriously have no idea why find her more likeable than Kieran even though Carmine never fixed her temper problem.
I freaking started to hate after seeing the first time how she treats Kieran. Like all he ever wanted was his sister’s love and support and yet she does nothing but yelling at him, threat him, or telling him to shut up. This is why during the BB league, when Kieran finally tells her to shut up, I was like “yea!! You tell her! Doesn’t feel good when someone shuts you up, huh carmine???” 😂
@@firemiracle I know right? Plus all the events that took place during the dlc would never have happened if Carmine allowed us to tell Kieran about Ogerpon.
Also I just wanna get this off my chest, but I really hate when people use Ogerpon against him and try to rub it in his face after winning. I know sending out Ogerpon in the Champion Kieran battle activates the dialogue, but it gets on my nerves when people be (parden my language) absolute douche bags to him without understanding how he felt throughout the dlc.
I love Kieran as a character. He deserved way better than what he got, and he honestly is a very overly demonised, heavily implied to be autistic person who I relate to a lot. He's overly demonised. I made a character analysis of him on my other channel (video name is 'analysing kieran- a character misunderstood, if you wanna watch it go ahead, but I'm not here to self-promote), and in my conclusion, I said that he's honestly treated unfairly, not only by the people in the fanbase, but in the game. Drayton is straight up awful to him, and Carmine also treats him unfairly, wrapping him in cotton wool, and blaming him for everything.
4:50 disagree. he is at no point egotistic in the indigo disk. In fact, there's the opposite. He hates himself and ANYTHING that reminds him of himself. So that includes that kid having troubles at home, like Kieran did. What Kieran shows in the Indigo Disk is a strong hatred for himself, and anything that reminds him of what he was like.
That's why Kieran only joins in when Carmine says that the player needs him, because that gives him a purpose in life. Once he has a purpose, he no longer sees the need to get stronger at all costs. The player gave him a purpose back on Kitakami, then tore that away from him by lying to him. Carmine never gave him a purpose, and just yelled at him and overprotected him. Drayton never gave him a purpose, he just used Kieran as his personal punching bag. Then Carmine gave Kieran a purpose by telling him that he was needed.
The thing about Kieran is that it's very difficult to understand him if you're not autistic. Almost every autistic person can relate to him, myself included. He is treated unfairly by Drayton, Carmine, and the player, and I can't really blame him for how he ended up. He's very autistic-coded, and is a perfect representation of the autistic experience, and the reaction by the fanbase being so negative shows how demonised autistic people really are.
Furthermore, the thing is, that Ogerpon only likes us by chance. If Ogerpon had seen Kieran, had got the time to know him, she would have chosen him no doubt. But we lied, and we shut him off from ever getting that chance. That's why I don't blame Kieran for feeling betrayed, and I don't blame him for how he turned out. That's the fault of his bullies, Drayton, Carmine, and the player. While he should take Ogerpon's feelings into account, and I don't think he should have lashed out and demanded a battle for who gets Ogerpon, I understand why he would feel done wrong here, because he has been. Also, in a world where wild Pokémon are caught every day, what makes Kieran's desire to also catch Ogerpon so different? Not saying Ogerpon's feelings should be ignored at all, but Kieran is fundamentally the victim of the grander story of the Teal Mask and Indigo Disk.
Kieran deserved so much better than what he got, and the fanbase's demonisation of him honestly leans into ableism a bit given how much of his 'brattishness' are basic autistic traits, and I'm willing to bet everything that he was made as an autistic rep by an autistic person (saying this as an autistic person myself). Great video.
Kieran was definitely one of the deepest characters we have gotten in Pokemon. He reminded me of Volo with Volo's obsession with Arceus. But rather than making him disappear after crap hit the fan and he basically became a fugitive; he had a redemption arc instead. Kind of makes me wonder if he was supposed to be Volo's descendant to show how Volo could have been redeemed.
Hey Craig, I love the analysis of Kieran. I saw this video of another creator absolutely hating Kieran and I was wondering if you could respond to it. I understand if you don’t want to get involved in drama but I want to hear your thoughts on the other creator’s explanation on why he hates Kieran
Hey! I wouldn't want to do direct video responses just because like you've mentioned there it could cause unnecessary drama. it's something i'd maybe talk about on stream though :)
Kieran kinda sounds like kyurem ngl
I hope I don’t go Full Kieran in my VGC career…
Better written character than max from Temtem